Latest / It's Just Not That Black and White / CRISPR: Are We Playing God? | Episode 4

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CRISPR: Are We Playing God? | Episode 4 · It's Just Not That Black and White

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: People are being left out.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's the privileged that are now able to have health care.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just reading an article which I thought was about an air fryer, but it wasn't.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was called CRISPR.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of blew my mind there is that concern that this technology could be used or misused to create designer babies.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So private investors are backing this type of research so that the privileged of the world could have perfect lives and perfect babies.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where we're going?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Salerno.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Reverend Dr.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Dana Owens.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome back to another episode of It's Just Not That Black and White.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, Rev, how you doing?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, Doc.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: How was your weekend?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Weekend is was good.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not watching that much football.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: No tissue box here.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna get a tissue box with just extra, you know, fluffy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done crying.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done crying over the Cowboys.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm focused on the NBA now.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the Cowboys are like the Pittsburgh Steelers gone to the South because you took Broderick Jones and then you took Joey Porter Jr.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: and George Pickens.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we're four and two, and you're what, two and four?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just said I'm not talking about football.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about elections, midterms, health care.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: What you think?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Healthcare, the kicking can, man.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Every every election's about health care, and we still can't get it right.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think healthcare in this country is gonna get worse because we're more of an of uh exclusion approach than an inclusion approach.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're gonna see more people without it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's gonna be harder to uh afford it because I think right now, I mean, United Healthcare just posted crazy earnings, crazy earnings.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, you know, you see seniors who can't afford co-pays, deductibles, cost of living.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can I buy food or can I pay for my meds?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's being kicked back to patients and providers to, you know, deal with the expense of healthcare in this country.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my question.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: 40 years ago, healthcare was affordable.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: 40 years later, we can't afford healthcare for everyone.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because you all are getting too much?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or your nurse practitioners, or the providers, or is it the medicine, or is it like, like, why is it so expensive?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are too many chefs in the kitchen, and the recipe got really bad.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the chefs in the kitchen didn't graduate from medical school or nursing school.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And these are folks that have MBAs and they put profits ahead of people.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Healthcare is a seven trillion dollar industry or thereabouts, single largest part of our gross national domestic product.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when there's money, there's greed.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when there's greed, there's gluttony.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as they said in that movie, greed is good, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no longer about health, it's no longer about people getting well.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is a big money business.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is barbarians at the gate, basically.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh healthcare right now, you know, unfortunately, it's been kind of taken away from the people and from the providers.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been placed in boardrooms, it's been driven by greed and by revenue and by stakeholders and shareholders.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest conflict, I think, in healthcare is health should be first, I believe, an inalienable right.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually a privilege.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be privileged in this country to have health care and quality health care.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, I think also the problem is in this country is that you know, healthcare, unfortunately, um it's it's just I don't know, I I think it's become I don't know.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I we we just lost our our way in in healthcare right now, and the market itself has become really monopolized.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and the big challenge, what I was gonna say was healthcare historically was a non-for-profit industry.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at most hospitals, there are 501c3, like your church, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're a non-for-profit.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Not for profit.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I mean, you know, there's a concept about non-for-profits, but when you have hospitals that are now turning to for-profit, and every insurance company is a for-profit.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I think there should be some type of rules that mandate for for every premium dollar you get, Horizon United, Aetna, you should put 70 cents back into healthcare in research and development, in, you know, in in encouraging people to go into medical school and into primary care and into those fields that are focusing on prevention.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's, you know.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, so I mean that, I mean, we we need to have a discussion just on that alone.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: But with you, with you're saying, or what you're saying is people are being left out.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's the privileged that are that are now um able to have health care.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just reading an article which I thought was about an air fryer, but it wasn't.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was called CRISPR.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and it kind of blew my mind because it's like, okay, we've made advancements with with cancer and other diseases, but this seems as though it's going into another stratosphere.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's your thoughts about it?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's bring it full back.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: CRISPR is a biotechnology.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a fast-growing biotechnology area.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is representing almost 64 to 65 percent of what's happening in the biotechnology marketplace.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, quick question Who's funding this?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who's funding private equity?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Private equity is funding this.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wall Street.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay, okay.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I mean, there is a science to it, obviously.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, there's this there are tremendous benefits to this, but at the bottom, what I was gonna say is right now in 2023, CRISPR was a 3.4 billion dollar a year industry, and by 2030, it's gonna be growing to 11 billion with a B dollar industry and technology and space, you know.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, CRISPR, which is you know, uh what do you call that?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh acronym?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Acronym.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a journalist like you were.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're a doctor.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I bet you if it was a prescription, you'd know it though.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it stands for clustered, regularly interspaced, short, paladromic repeats.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like the air fryer, but go that's crisp with an R, yeah, at the end.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you know how like the DN so we're made up of DNA, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and those are genomes, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Genes, right?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't do science.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but go ahead.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and uh and if you take a ladder and imagine twisting a ladder, so it's almost looking like a spiral staircase, and in between the you know, the uh ringers of the ladder are the steps, right?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so CRISPR is uh is a technology or a science where we can now target a gene, a defective gene, if we wanted to, and be able to utilize this technology whereby almost DNA-like scissors come in like Pac-Man coming in, right?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it will snip the defective gene or whatever the targeted gene that you are like right now focused on, you can remove it and remove it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And by doing that, obviously we're looking at how and where are the applications of this in cancer, okay, in Alzheimer's, in birth uh birth defect conditions like Down syndrome and Kleinfelter syndrome.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, because these are basically one gene got inverted or improperly placed in one sequence.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how, and now we can go, and while you know, you are developing human embryo, we can we can change that.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So private investors are backing this type of research so that the privileged of the world could have perfect lives and perfect babies.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where we're going?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's always a concern, you know, with medicine and science, there's an ethical moral line.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a concern of crossing that line.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And are you crossing that line?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, look, you know, you have good people sometimes that unfortunately, you know, bad with bad intentions, and you have bad people with, you know, even worse intentions, you know.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um there is that concern that this technology could again be used or misused to create designer babies.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's meaning, meaning a perfect baby.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect baby.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could say I want my baby to be six foot six, blue eyes, wow, black hair, you know, and have an IQ of you know, 230.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you know, if only my mother had this technology back in the day, I'd be put it back into the microwave and let it incubate a little bit more.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Kobe Bryant in the pulpit.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there you go.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So cost.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: How much what how much cost is going into the research?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then what what's the estimate of like I mean, I again it if it's a three if in 2023 it was 3.4 billion.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, you're spending money to be making money.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, I think the benefits though are also long run is like, look, if I can, if we can quicker find a cure to lymphoma and leukemias, you're improving quality of life, you're alleviating suffering.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But in the same instance, you know, in in the stewardship of stopping human suffering, you're playing with on your side of the fence, God and creation.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because we are playing God.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, historically in the past, when you were inflicted with a terminal disease, you know, sometimes the treatment was worse than the disease, as you heard, because chemotherapy, radiation therapy, it can be taxing on a human body, you know, some more than others.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But now, if there's an opportunity that you can send these, you know, DNA scissors that are, you know, have kind of like a guided RNA, another type of, you know, genome, uh, to an exact precise location and remove something that's you know propagating disease and bad cells from you know germinating, you just healed a person.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um that's a that's a that's a that's interesting.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I was thinking about some of the healings that um that Jesus performed.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And in some ways the healings extended life.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in most of the ways, they extended life, but then also there was this connection to uh living a more faithful or spiritual life.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes Jesus would heal and say, Then go and sin no more.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um the difference is that life was extended so that a better life could be lived.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Better meaning better for humanity.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds as if with what's going on today, extending life now doesn't necessarily equate to people treating one another better.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just they get to live a longer life without any um any pressure or any responsibility of making this world a better place.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think that's where the division always comes in at is because science has always been forward thinking and should be.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Jesus, to heal people in that manner, he was forward thinking.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, not and not everyone got healed.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were questions that, you know, we would raise in seminary.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why were some overlooked?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand the disparities, but I also think along with it came a responsibility, spiritually speaking, that I don't think society even considers.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the longevity of life.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my biggest struggle is living longer doesn't mean you have a better quality of life.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: You and I, years ago, when we first met and would talk, you would always like share with me about Rev, you know, it's the quality of life.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's the quality of life.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you were just saying that pertaining to what we would eat, exercise, just taking care of the body.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you said as we get older, you know, if you don't take care of this temple, then you you're gonna have to pay the price down the road, which lessens the quality of life.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And now, um, this quality of life is just an extension of your years, but not necessarily making a difference in the world.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems as though they don't care.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think you I mean, you know, I think we often grasp and struggle with moral fiber.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I think um, you know, where we are, and as we evolve, we're supposed to, I think, I believe, evolve to be better.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but do we do that always?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, look at look around us oftentimes now.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I do think right now with um with this potential technology and science and whatnot, you know, we're all looking for that fountain of youth too, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you're you are correct.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I have mentioned oftentimes it's not, you know, how long you live, it's how well you live and you know, pay it forward and be able to, you know, uh uh if you really look at at just people that really generational wealth.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things about generational wealth I see is that they are about giving and philanthropy, right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and what you put out, I I truly believe comes back to you exponentially.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you put out good, good comes back.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you put out bad, bad comes back.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I have I've seen that in in in my you know 26 years of of doing healthcare and and working with different groups and different people.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but you know, this this technology, you know, is not just being looked at in creating uh again the designer baby or playing God, or you know, it's also you know, or even at extending the lifespan, because you know, when we age, our cells age.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you you hear about now fields in medicine called anti-aging, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're focusing on cold plunges and you know, reversing oxidative stress and mindful meditation and quality sleep, and all of these things are supposed to ultimately help our insides.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't have a mirror to look at on our insides.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: If we did, some of us would probably be more shocked than others and really have a rude awakening, you know.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, but this technology is definitely here, it's definitely growing, it's definitely gonna be the new what you know.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I bet you five years ago, if someone talked about AI, we'd be like, what are you talking about, man?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, right.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of like AI of healthcare.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's coming.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it's the AI of healthcare where we're really using intelligence to a new level at a very, you know, um specific DNA building block microcosm of the human body.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: My biggest, my biggest concern, or one of my concerns, is I'm I'm really not so much um surprisingly, my concern about living longer doesn't create um a God factor for me, like the whole playing God.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think from the beginning of time, the Bible even speaks of it of once sin entered into the world, we've always wanted to be like God.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just believe God is big enough to continue to be God.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And regardless of the advancements we make, I just believe that that that God is still in control of this thing and God will God can still provide us with life, but then also permit death to come.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not even, yeah, I don't think about you know us being God.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's just who we are, unfortunately.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: But my concern is with this advancement in research and technology, how many um you name those persons with the some of the diseases, whether it's Down syndrome or there was another term you use with Kleinfelters.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Kleinfelters, um, Alzheimer's, cancers.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cancers, yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm my my my concern is can the person living down the street from me who has basic health care, will that ever become accessible to them?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this kind of technology, do you foresee it just being for those who have it?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, that's the slippery slope I'm concerned about, is that we will then have a segment of population who are not only healthier and living longer, but then on the other end of that, um, the disparities in our communities will just grow even more exponentially than what's happening right now.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you, what's your thoughts about that?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And is it responsibility from the medical profession to say, hey, let's make this equitable, or do you even have a say in it, if you could?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think right now, again, as we started this uh episode, we talked about how, you know, healthcare is really more of a privilege, I think, you know.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have the means, you're gonna get better health care, quicker health care.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're not, you know, socialized medicine like, you know, north of us, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where you might literally have to wait three months for an MRI and you know, whereas we can get one here in three days still, you know.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um health care is basically a privilege.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's the you know, haves and have nots and you know, basic health care.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: People can walk into an emergency room and and you know get care, but that's reactive care.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's not proactive care.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is and this would be proactive.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: This this is proactive.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is like, hey, you know, there, you know, with with embryonic testing, we're identifying a, you know, a genetic disease or a potential child that may have Down syndrome here.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we're not there yet, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea is this is where they're going.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, and now, you know, that would allow a family to potentially be able to, you know, be more assured of a healthy childbirth and a healthy child, you know.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, when it looks when we talked about longevity, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I think Jeff Bezos, he has that Altos lab, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That they're looking at anti aging and and longevity.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got this guy, Brian Johnson, with blueprint.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you I haven't heard of he was on TV not too long ago.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So this guy like made gazillions of millions of dollars, you know, in his in the tech world, I believe, sold it all out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And really then went on a conquest of beating father time, basically.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I have heard about this guy.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, they talked about, I don't know, I don't know if it's true or not.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he had a son and like, you know, infusing his son's blood into him or something to that effect.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I I never really followed it that closely.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, this guy has demonstrated that he has been able to reverse chronological age.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like he might be 56, but is actually on the inside, he's like more like 48 with everything that he's been doing with supplements and sleep and exercise and nutrition and and whatnot.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, they kind of asked him, like, what does it cost to do all this?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think he like threw out some crazy number.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't quote me on this, but it was like 375,000 a year or up to maintain that to be able to do that, like you know, with all the resources that you need to.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: How many Americans can right now, in today's day and age, with the fuel prices and grocery prices, be able to have disposable 300 or 400,000 dollars plus just to be able to reverse and add six years on the inside?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Here I thought my one-a-day vitamins was doing something.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you know what?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Stay on your one-a-day vitamins, you're gonna get that zinc and selenium and everything else you need.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you afraid about where medicine is going?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you apprehensive about it?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you excited?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: What's your thoughts about it?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always excited where medicine is going.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you got the GLP1s, which I think is, you know, the modern day version of penicillin or or insulin, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have insulin 100 years ago, and look how many people were dying of you know, diabetes.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think we have to have advancements in this.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but again, you just need to maintain moral fiber, uh, you know, medical ethics, um, you know, the good of the whole, not the good of the me, you know, be about the we culture, not me culture, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I'm my mind is all over the place with this because if we're looking at the thing I was thinking about as you was as you were talking about how the bad could be cut out, essentially, I'm I'm paraphrasing, but the bad could be cut out.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is, you know, it's sort of like sin.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because so when sin entered humanity, um we were flawed and we are flawed.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: We continue to be flawed.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is by our faith in Jesus Christ that our sins are forgiven.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're not perfect, we're still filled with sin, but our sins are forgiven.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, from a human point, you're saying, hey, if you're born this way, or if you have a defect, science can, you know, in the future possibly remove that defect and you look perfect, you seem perfect, you will be, in the eyes of, you know, individuals, perfect.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm thinking about as we look at spirituality, the will of God.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been always a tough question that we would, you know, have discussions about, because why would God allow a child to be born this way?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes we would say, you know, it's God's will.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there are parents who've raised children that way that had no regrets.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: But now, given the option of whether you want that to happen, or let's go to the opposite end.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say someone who has a parent who is dealing with Alzheimer's dementia, and and that could be if if it was diagnosed early or recognized early, that could be removed.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: We could probably potentially remove the gene that results in the production of amyloid, which is really the um the driving, defining characteristic of Alzheimer's dementia is these plaques that form under brain and eventually just strangle the brain.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I mean, that's that's basically what you're you're again, like we talked about, it's it's it is harnessing medicine and science and advancing it in such a way that you are now going to be able on the chess board of life move a piece and maybe you know move a piece past God in order to move across the board.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting and and get to the finish line.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's you know, that's what we're looking at right now.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, like, you know, then you have to ask yourself if if we really are gonna achieve this and be able to achieve longevity and be able to, you know, reverse oxidative stress and inflammation and chronic diseases, and be born healthier from the get-go, and identify certain genes that we know are cells that can lead to leukemia, lymphoma, Alzheimer's disease, you know, familial hyperlipidemia that can obviously increase faster, cardiovascular disease.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna be living longer.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we all gonna live with population, you know, crowding right now?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I hope, you know, well, the moon, yeah, I was gonna say that.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff Bezos, yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Star Starlink and the moon, and you know, I know, I know Donald's gonna have us on Mars soon, so we're gonna be there.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna try to get a nice condo, I think.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm good right here.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I um it's this is this is a topic that I'm sure will be discussed in pulpits moving forward because we're dealing with again the longevity of life, we're dealing with science, and it seems as though once the genie is out the bottle, you can't put it back in.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um you can as much good as it can and will do, there's also the other end where people can profit off of it and there'd be disparities in it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think for me, just right now, I just believe, and that's why faith is all that more important.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: That, and I believe that as clergy, and I would even say as physicians, our responsibility would be to um become advocates of equality in it, but then also like continue to raise like or be the moral compass for it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just believe that all of these opportunities, and I honestly believe that God inspires humans to think this way and come up with these things.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you and I that I mean this has been our discussion from the get-go, is because people have said, well, you know, it's my body, and I'm gonna just turn over to God.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we would say, you know, that's crazy.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: If God has blessed us with doctors who can help our bodies, then why not listen to the doctor?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But now we're taking a step further and saying, hey, these doctors are are knowledgeable, they're making these advancements.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we want to take advantage of it, especially if it's someone, a loved one that I have going through it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then also my faith says, but yeah, God is still in control of all of this.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I have to stand on that because I would not want to see humanity in the hands of humanity.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I would not want my world to be in the hands of someone else.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so my faith says, God will figure all of this out.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: God let I believe God allows us, and this is a strange analogy, but it's just, I believe God has us, I believe humanity has a leash.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and and God knows when to say enough.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm my prayer is that even as we talk about war and the brink of annihilation, um, I'm I'm just my faith is just like God always has like a remnant of those who will stand for good and fight for justice and speak out for the oppressed and and help curtail some of this stuff.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, that's why we're having this discussion, because it's uneasy to think that there's some billionaires owning labs that can come up with this stuff and and a segment of our population can live about twice as the number of years than the average person.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's ridiculous.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like well, I mean, it's happening now when you look.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, you see difference in life expectancies among certain cultures and populations, and you know, unfortunately, those that you know have behavioral health disorder, they, you know, unfortunately suffer greater, you know, greater diseases, greater severity of diseases, shorter life expectancy.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, but you know, another quick question, I just thought about something.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, so schizophrenia and things of that, could that be could that be dealt with?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think again, you know, understanding the pathophysiology of bipolar disorder and and schizophrenia.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we're dealing with it to a certain extent now, but we're dealing it with pharmacology and okay the use of certain medications.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, you know, okay.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think as we further understand or relearn, you know, because we're constantly learning and relearning, I think in every walk of life, but certainly in medicine and science, um, you know, this application of you know CRISPR is gonna potentially be limitless, just like AI is limitless.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, but uh it it is, you know, a deep pocketbook uh aspect of what is historically a very um it's very expensive in the in in this country to um seek wellness and achieve wellness when it comes to health, both uh above and below the neck.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow hypothetically, because I know you're not there, but let's just say if you had Bezos money, would you take advantage of this and live another 75 to 100 years if you could?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: The way the Steelers are playing right now, I don't know if I want to be able to endure another 75 to 100 years, but um now you know what?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of and this is a whole different other topic, but I do think that when we die, you know, this is just a suitcase.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and our soul goes on, and I do think, you know, our soul comes back.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's called reincarnation, but I just don't think there's this whole like universe of souls because that's gonna run us space too somewhere.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we gotta spend time in Bible study, dude.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, come on.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I know.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I I'm I'm no God has space, Doc.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Theologian like you.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, I I actually I I am trying now to, you know, do intermittent fasting, drink lots of water, focus on sleep, proper supplements, which we could talk about some other time.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um you know, right now I'll I'm just gonna take what he gives me and do the best with it.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um and then, you know, move on.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bigger, better things.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bigger and better.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Would you?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm yeah, you know, it's so funny.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I did a sermon a couple of weeks ago on seasons and how change is a part of life, seasons is a part of life, and I just believe that uh this life here on earth is you know, it's filled with seasons, and eventually my season here comes to an end.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And as you as you alluded to, and I believe there's something better and bigger, and I can't comprehend what it is and I mean, you know, the Bible speaks of it, but I just believe that that there's something better here, better beyond this.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, I find myself even now, I'm getting to the point where one, I'm sounding like an old man because times are changing and the you know, this generation's thinking is different.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know, I wouldn't, even if I could stick around, I don't know if I'd want to because I feel like I'd be a fish out of water.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, just just with AI.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have a um, I have a little cousin, she just turned 32.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think about her and her her sister who's who's 29.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think about them often because, you know, I can't imagine what their world is gonna look like at our age.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what would what will that look like?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I and I think for me, it's just like I'm sort of glad I won't have to experience it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I say that every time.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I'm grateful that you and I probably grew up like you know, 60s, 70s, 80s.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there were no cell phones, none of that, there was no cable TV, there was no internet, right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you really were it was about socialization at its fundamental level of you know, people with people interactions, yes, community.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I see now cyber bullying and influencers and the internet and predators, and you know, I mean, it's just insane.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, honestly.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's it's beyond friendships with chat bots, like relationship relationships.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like and psychotherapy with chat bots.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't want to.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm grateful for my time here, and however long I'm here, but yeah, don't extend me.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm good.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is great.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: This was great conversation.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: This was yeah, definitely at a different uh level.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, we always talk about you know science and spirituality, yeah, and that balance between the two because you need both, and you need to keep the checks and balances between both, because at the end of the day, you know, I think science unchecked with spirituality can you know lead to us becoming becoming unraveled and and lose sight of where we're coming from.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, Rev, I think we'll wrap up today.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to our next kind of uh conversation and dialogue um and perspectives.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm tapping out, I'm tapping out.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna ask the church for a raise because apparently the health care that I have is not adequate for the future.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm gonna ask for our politicians to also give us physicians a raise considering Medicare uh can't even keep up with uh the inflation, let alone gas prices right now.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um where the money goes.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: More topics to come.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, I'd love to uh say a big thank you to everyone that's watching, listening, and supporting the show.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Please make sure you like, subscribe, and comment on uh on our podcast.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward to seeing you on another episode of It's Just Not That Black and White.