Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 25: What If Success Isn’t the Finish Line? ft. Will Packer

Transcript

EP 25: What If Success Isn’t the Finish Line? ft. Will Packer · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Learn the Hard Way. My name is Keir Gaines.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: We talk about purpose. We talk about pressure. We talk
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: about what it actually takes to become a full, comprehensive man. Hey,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: what's up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of Learn
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Hard Way. I am your host, Keir. Whoa, no,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not your host, Keir Gaines. I am
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: your host, New York Times bestseller author, Keir Gaines.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I am a husband. I am a father. I am
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a podcaster. I'm a keynote speaker. And I am a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: New York Times. I am an instant New York Times
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: bestseller author, which means book made. My book, It All
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Starts When You Do, made the New York Times bestselling
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: list the very first, I mean, the very first week
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: it came out. And I am incredibly grateful. I'm incredibly thankful.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't have a better guest today on the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: pod then another New York Times best-selling author, and also
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: one of the executive producers for this podcast, he came in, like,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: you not, look, this is what we not going to do.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We not going to burn up Good Conversation Time. You
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: talking trash about my fraternity, all right? Okay.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know this. Are you in fraternity? I
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: didn't even, what are you talking about?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Stop, stop. Will, stop, stop. All right, we don't want
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to do that.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know this.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, now he ain't know this, right?
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: You know this. When you... This is par for the
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: course for our conversation.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Today, sir.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Okay? You are now instant New York Times bestseller. As
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a fellow New York Times bestseller, I know how hard
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: it is. I want to give you all your props. Like,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: in all seriousness, that is such a tremendous accomplishment. And, like,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: talk your ish, brother. Like, name all your accolades and
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: titles and say them with your whole chest. Because... You didn't,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: nobody handed those to you, right? And this newest, latest title,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: it doesn't define you, but my God, it is a
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: hell of an accomplishment. And when you are at the top,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: when you have done something lofty, right? You see the
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: world differently. You look around and you see people that
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: are on the level that you are. When you're at
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: the top, like being at the top of a building,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: you can't pay attention to what's happening down below because
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: you're so busy with your head and your eye on
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: the prize, the clouds, the dreams, where you're trying to go, right?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: And that is why I did not notice what fraternity
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: you in, brother, because I can't look down that low.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: As an older man being at the top, I don't
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: know what's going on down there.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, my.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: After 1906, I can't keep track of what happened all
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: those years later. So did he happen to be in
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a fraternity? Whatever. Ray, you, GAFA, Sigma, I don't know.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I just know I keep this alpha energy, brother, because
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I am at the top. Like, you are at the top.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: That's all. That's what I'm just saying. I'm just saying,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: my guy.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Now you see what just happened to his voice is
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: because he being he being mean and nasty in China,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you see. So if y'all don't know, my guest today
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: is the one, the only one of my favorite people
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: to talk trash with, Mr. Will Packer. And he talking
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: about a resume. But just real quick, I'm going to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: run down his joint because it's kind of crazy. It's
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: kind of wild. So, Will Packer is a Hollywood blockbuster producer. Blockbuster.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Do it feel weird when people call you that?
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Yo, it did at first because a little bit like
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: you and I have talked off camera about it feeling
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: like an out-of-body experience when you look at the things
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: that you've accomplished. Like, it feels like somebody else just
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: hit that New York Times list, but really it's you.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So, early on when people would say blockbuster and they
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: would say, like, how much money my movies had made,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, who are they talking... Who is this cat? Right? And, like, sometimes...
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: When you think about imposter syndrome, it's you who thinks
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: you are the imposter in your own life. And I
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: have now gotten past that and I'm able to embrace
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the fact that, yeah, you know what? I did do
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that because I was there in the grind, knowing everything
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: it tooks up and down. So it does feel weird.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You're right when people say it, but I've gotten past
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: that to the point where I embrace it. But there's
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a thing in me, like a humility that still shies
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: away from just going all the way in and going, yo,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: that's my title. I am my title. I am, you know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Spongebob's a producer. Call me that. Like, no, I earned it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I earned that title.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And it's a fact. But it's still humbling to hear.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm still very grateful.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: To hear it. I actually, yeah, I'm pretty similar in
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that regard in terms of just the humility. Because it's, it's, it's,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: it's also big. Sometimes it's kind of hard to process,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: but you know, the work you put in, you know,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the sweat equity that went into it and you could
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: feel it, you know, but you, I mean, you got
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a lot, you got think like a man, girls trip,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: stomp the yard. I didn't even know you did stomp
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the yard. That's crazy. Right.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you did that.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: The reason I did that was because I wanted to
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: shine a light on HBCUs and black Greek letter organization.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Like that actually was my goal. And I went to
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Hollywood and nobody cared because in LA and Hollywood specifically,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: they were like, we don't know what that is. You
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? They were like thinking of it
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: in the same way that like white fraternities, sororities think
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: of like, it being just a social pledge, a rush,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: something that they rushed in college. And, you know, I
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: know people in Hollywood, they don't even remember what like
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: fraternity or sorority they were a part of when they joined.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Cause it felt just like a club. Whereas you and
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I know it is for life. It's usually a lifelong
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: commitment bond. So yeah, I'm glad that, that the fact
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that you didn't know that is actually kind of powerful
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: to me because I, One thing I will say is
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: that early in my career, I was always defined as
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the guy who did a particular movie. One of my
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: my very first movie when I was at FAMU was
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: called Chocolate City. And me and the crew that put
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: together that movie, my guy, Rob Hardy, who was director,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: who was a visionary behind it and some other folks. Oh,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: those are Chocolate City guys and Chocolate City guys. And
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: then I did a movie called. And it was my
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: first movie after I graduate that I went out and
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: hustled and drove city to city and got it distributed.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: And people be like, oh, that's the guy who did Twa.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You're the Twa guy. And I always wanted to be
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: not defined by a single project. And eventually I wanted
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to just be a movie maker, a producer, a blockbuster producer.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So the fact that you're like, yo, you got a
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: resume that I didn't even know this was part of it.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: That actually is a sense of accomplishment. Right.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: It should be.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I do a lot of movies. I do movies,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: not just I'm the guy who did one thing.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I be telling that to my content creators all
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the time. And when we talking about how you present
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to the public, I say, bro, don't just do one thing,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: because if you do one thing, people will get used
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: to you just doing it, being that one thing. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you'll change and try to show a diversity of your skills.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And the folks are going to be reluctant to accept
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it because you just the twa guy. You know, it's
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: always good to showcase all of what you can do
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: early and often. But this conversation, one of the reasons
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I brought you into this joint is because I want
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: to talk about the grind and I want to talk
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: about the work and what it takes, but also how
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: it feels. It's easy to use a lot of the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: words and talk about what you did and what you
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: saw and and what you experienced, but not always what
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: you feel and, and breaking that down. So I'm glad
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I got you on the episode today. Uh, one thing
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about is what the ground requires
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: from us as men, how to keep going before we
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: even see the proof of it. Cause sometimes that's just
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: what's required. Um, how to know when persistence is paying off.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: It's hard to know when that's happening. And I think
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: most importantly, how to handle rejection and sacrifice and exhaustion
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and uncertainty and will, I'm not one of them dudes
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that only going to come and talk to the people
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: when I'm beyond those feelings. Like I'm in the, I'm
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in the midst of it now.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I'm, I'm, Oh, bro. Every day, every single day. So
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to getting some of your wisdom and y'all,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: if you're listening to it, I don't know if you
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: ever heard of Will Packer interview before, but he, he
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: always got something to share that you can walk away
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: with and apply to your life in a really special way.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: So with that being said, Let's get this episode popping.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Let's get into it, baby. I'm honored to be here.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, man.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man. It's, you know, you know, you kind of
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: live in the building.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a small
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: part of a big team, but I'm, I'm still very,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: very honored that you allowed me to be here. You know,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you said something here and I don't want to jump
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: out of order, but something is interesting. You talked about like,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: like living in it. You're living in it right now.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Everybody is. I just want to say that because there's
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: like this perception of, Oh, once you get to a
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: certain level, Like you're over the hump and then you're
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: not living in like the struggle, the dreams, the triumphs,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the disasters, bro. That never ends. You're always going to
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: be living in it. There are different phases to it, certainly,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: but you're always going to be living in it. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I think once you can accept that, then you can
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: start to live in your own truth. easier because you
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: recognize that, oh, I'm not alone. I'm not abnormal. Whatever
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going through, I'll always be going through something, but
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: navigating it, that's the key to, in my opinion, living
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: a fully fulfilled life. Being able to navigate the ups
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: and downs and knowing that it's always constant change, constant highs,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: constant lows, constant turmoil. The consistent thing is you. You
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: are the thing that is always there. You evolve, you change,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: you change. your mentality, your POV, but you're the one constant.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: The world is always going to be changing around you.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And then once you accept that and know that you're OK,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: you can live with yourself better. And I'm not saying
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: that like this is something that I knew coming out
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: the box. I had to learn that over years. But
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I definitely do feel like I've gotten to a point
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: where it's like I'm OK with me. I'm happy with me.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I'm confident with me through it all, through the bad decisions,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: good decisions, ups and downs. So you hit on that
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and it sparked me to bring it up.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: No, that's a good distinction because me is the thing
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that's not going to change the situation to change. The
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: money will change. The offers will change the opportunities. But
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: me isn't a thing that changes. And when you say
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you can, it's easier to be more living your truth.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I also think you can live in your truth more confidently.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: You know, just because I made it here, that doesn't
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: mean that the hard things stop. As a matter of fact,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it's a good argument that the things get harder. You
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: just have bigger bills now.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: There's no question, my guy. They get harder. You know
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It's harder, man. Here's the thing.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: When you broke, you don't want to hear more money,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: more problems. You like, hey, man, give me the money.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I want the money problems right now.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I remember trying to come up, and I would look
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: at cats, and they would be saying, you know, it's
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: going to always be hard. And I'd be like, you rich, bro.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Shut up. You know what I'm saying? Like, I have nothing.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I'm over here. This is when, like, I graduated from FAMU,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: moved to Atlanta. I was straight, eating ramen noodles. and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: delivering the Atlanta Journal Constitution. That is the Atlanta newspaper.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I was literally getting up at 3 a.m. to go
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: deliver newspapers. I had an engineering degree, mind you. All
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: my friends were out. They were making like high five figures,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: low six figures. They out living their lives. It looks
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: mad glamorous and sexy. And I was grinding, brother, grinding.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: It was— Start of the Yard was actually my first number
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: one movie ever. Bro, Stop the Yard came out in,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I think it was 2006. I graduated in 1996. That's
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: 10 years.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Damn.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: So people look at my career like, yeah, you've been popping. No,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: my God. Where were you during those 10 years when
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I was questioning everything? Yeah.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: That's like when you work a new job and- you
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: come on an off weekend, you got to work three
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: weeks in a hole. Like you work three weeks before
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: you get paid. It's like, congratulations. Like, hey, I've been
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: working for a while and I get that money. But
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: you said something, you told me all delivering newspapers and
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: eating ramen, which is crazy. And it makes me think
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: of a question. It's my therapist brain nerding out. Like
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: that don't sound like, I mean, I think a lot
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: of people have had some version of that, but that
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't sound ideal, especially with the way people talk about
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: success now. What kept you convinced that the work you
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: were doing was leading somewhere? And how did you manage
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the exhaustion and the uncertainty?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. Here's the honest truth. I'm
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: always keeping 100 with you. I was not convinced that
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the work I was doing was leading somewhere. Really? That's
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the truth. No, man. Because I didn't have somebody that
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I knew who had done the path that I was
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: taking and had to feed it. So it wasn't like
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I had an example. So I felt like I was
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: doing something that nobody had done before, which sounds cool
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: after the fact. Like my dad was the first black
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: engineering graduate from his university, University of South Florida, USA.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: And I got a chance to speak at a program
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: for him that they honored him posthumously. And I said,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: it sounds cool after the fact to say, oh, he
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: was the first. You know when it's not cool to
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: be the first when you in it. When you doing something,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: nobody else has done it before, you be like, man,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: am I, is it awful? Like, there's a reason that
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: nobody did it. So I was there trying to Become
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a film producer? I didn't know film producers like that.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: So I was like, maybe like a kid from St. Pete, Florida,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: who went to an HBCU in Tallahassee. Maybe I'm not
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: supposed to make it in Hollywood. I don't know anybody
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: else that did it the way that I was trying
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: to do it. So I definitely was not convinced what
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I was doing was the right way. or that there
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: was success at the end of that journey. But I
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: will tell you what kept me going, what kept me,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you know, eating ramen noodles and getting up every day,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: delivering the newspapers just to make the ends meet was
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: this feeling of, I did not want to quit and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I did not want to fail. And it wasn't like,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I felt like, Oh, I'm not a failure. So I'm
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: going to keep going because I'm a successful person. I
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: didn't have that level of confidence. I just felt like
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: if I keep going, then it's not over. That was
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: my mentality, right? It was like, okay, if you and
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I are in a race and you are whooping my ass,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you way, way ahead of me, right? Until the race
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is over, though, even though I feel like I may
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: never be able to get here, if the race is
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: not over, then it's still a chance. You know what
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I'm saying? And so I just was like, I just
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: got to keep going because if I quit now, I
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: know I lost. I know I failed. I know I
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: never became a successful movie producer. It was almost like
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: a a desperation to try to like sustain my own dream.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: The other thing was like, I'm the only person who
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: could really say it's over. Other people have been doubting
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: me forever and going like, no, like you, like people
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: watching this now or listening to this now, like people
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: are saying you'll never be right. We all have those,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: those voices. And oftentimes it allowed us one in our
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: heads that I said, you know what? Until I say
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it's over until I say I can't do it until
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I say I quit until I say I pivoted to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: doing something else, then my dream ain't over. So that's
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: really what helped me sustain. Some of that is a
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: little bit of what I like to call healthy arrogance,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: but it was me saying, I just am not going
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to give up, damn it. It ain't over yet. It
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: ain't over. You know, I'm broke as hell. I'm in
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: this house. I don't know where the rent's coming from, but.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: It ain't over. So let me ask you this then. Like,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: it's not like it was an overnight success. It's not.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: You fresh out of fam. You still eating sugar sandwiches
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: or whatever y'all ate back in the 1930s. And what happened?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: What happened?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happened.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, you and I are similarly
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: aligned in different directions.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: In what?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: In what?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: All right. Come on, boys.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: What are we talking about?
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I feel like, I feel like, Like I'm at a
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Q block party all of a sudden. You know what
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I mean? I feel unsafe. Oh, man.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: I need to hide my wife and children.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That is crazy.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Relax, Gary. All right.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So what y'all hear here is this alpha man attacking
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: me on my podcast.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Which is crazy. I did not attack anything.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And then he told me he doesn't feel safe.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: So he's going to throw the rock and hide his hand.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: That's what we're doing.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Ladies, if there's a queue around, hide your purse. That's
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: all I'm saying. Hide your purse and your credit card numbers.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: That's all. That's all I'm saying.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: See, that's that arrogance. But you said healthy arrogance.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So explain that to me, because when I read
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it at first, I was like, all right, healthy arrogance.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Those two words beside each other, they feel counterintuitive.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: But when you read it, it feels like there's something
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: more to it. Because I know that's a big part
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of your book. And I want you to tell me
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: what healthy arrogance is. And then I got questions about
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: how that applies to the grand.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So I wrote a book. I, like you, am honored
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: to be a New York Times bestseller.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Two black men, New York Times bestsellers.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Come on, brother.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Come on, man.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Let's own that for a minute.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? That's crazy.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: It's real.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So my book is called who better than you? Um,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the art of healthy arrogance and dreaming big, the art
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: of dreaming big and healthy arrogance. And so this concept
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: of healthy arrogance, I really, it has worked for me
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: in my life. I just wanted to share it with
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: people where it is this, um, outsized amount of confidence
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: that I have in myself that I feel like any
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: room I walk into, I deserve to be in that room. Now,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: this is not something that you can necessarily be born with.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be born with, I should say.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be an extrovert. You don't have
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to be somebody, you know, like you are very comfortable
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: talking to people, sharing our experiences. A lot of people
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: are not, right?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: They don't want to.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Be like the center of attention. And there's nothing wrong
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: with that. But it is important that you have a
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: feeling of confidence that you belong wherever you are and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: that there's something about you that nobody else has. There's
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a unique power and presence that you have. And this
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: is true of everybody. That's it. And the special sauce
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: is you. And so I've been in some of the
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: most powerful rooms in the world, KG. And the thing
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: that separates the people that are in those rooms from
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: from people that aren't, oftentimes it's just that the people
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: in those rooms, they're not that much better or smarter
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: or capable. I promise you they're not. I've been in
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the rooms. They're not. They're not.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: They're not.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: But they don't question whether or not they're supposed to
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: have status, titles, power. They have this confidence. And so
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: toxic arrogance is saying that I'm better than everybody else.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I'm better than you, you, you, right? That's toxic. I
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: work in Hollywood. A lot of toxically arrogant people. Toxic
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: arrogance says I belong in a room and I can
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: make the people in this room and the people around
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: me better because of the unique power, the secret sauce
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: that I have that others don't. So it's about bringing
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: people up, not saying I'm better than other people. I'm
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: going to put them down. That's toxic arrogance. I wanted
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to kind of rebrand that term of arrogance because that
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: has worked for me. Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Nah, I see that because it's, I think healthy arrogance
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: in my mind is almost like the opposite of fake
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: it until you make it, where you just, you kind
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: of putting up the facade, the confidence. is not there,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: but you kind of you have to project the confidence
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: until it arrives. And that don't that don't work for me.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Fake it till you make it in that regard. It
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: sounds sustainable. Yeah, it's not sustainable. If you do it now,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you have to rely on not being tired and not
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: being overwhelmed and being centered in your mind, being in
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a good place. Too many things got to go right
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: in order for you to keep that up. And I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: don't like not feeling confident. I don't like it. But
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I realized that pretending to be confident gets me nowhere.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Because the substantive value of underneath the performance is not there.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And once it dissipates, Will, once it dissipates, now everybody
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: see you for who you are. And when people see,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: when you revealing a part of yourself that ain't what
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you sold, people begin to understand like, oh, you finessing
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. And then it's hard to know
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: what to believe. I can't trust you.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: They don't believe you. They don't trust you. And you
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: never get a chance to rebuild that very often. Once
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: somebody has labeled you, right? It's Maya Angelou. People never
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: forget the way you make them feel.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: When somebody feels a certain way about you, especially if
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it has a negative association with it, it's very hard
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: to come back from that. That fake it till you
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: make it, that faux confidence. That's not what I'm talking about.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Here's the key to that. Sometimes you're not supposed to
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: be in a room yet.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yet. Well, that is so hard for people to hear.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: That's such a hard truth, man.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Everybody thinks I'm supposed to be there right now, today.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to push a button and have, you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: a trillion followers and a million dollars, right? It does
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: not work like that. Sometimes you're not supposed to be
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: in a room yet. Sometimes you are supposed to sit back, watch, learn, grow.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And what you're doing there is building your confidence. So
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: in no way, I agree with you, in no way
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: am I saying you jump into a room and fake it, right?
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Fake like you're supposed to be there. That's not what
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I'm saying at all. Sometimes you got to sit back, wait,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Build up that confidence. But confidence is like a muscle.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: You got to be working it constantly to the point
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: where you're ready. Then you can walk in and have actual, real,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: authentic self-confidence, which is important. And other people will feel
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: it and will know it. But you first have to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: believe it in yourself. But to do that, you have
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to build it. You have to do things to help
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: build that confidence in you, just like you build a muscle,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: your bicep, triceps, workout, your lungs, you know, whatever you're doing.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: The more you do it, the better that you can get.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I talk about this in a book. I say, I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: still say that, man. I'm so used to being in
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: book mode, but I talk about it in a book
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: where I say that self-confidence is like, it's the meal
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that you prepare at home. It is such an internal process.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: You got to grab the food out of your own fridge,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: use your own pots, use your own stove, your own spoons.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: You have to build it from scratch so that you
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: know what it is and you know what all the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: ingredients are and what it's supposed to feel and taste like.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And self-confidence isn't, applicable in every category. There are parts
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: of my life that I'm incredibly confident in and there
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: are parts of my life that I'm not very confident in.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I just don't allow myself to live by the cheers
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: or die by the boos. I'm not solely defined by
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: my most confident parts of myself. And I'm also not
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: solely defined by the parts that lack that at all.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It's an amalgamation of all those things. And I think
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: one of the, one of the things about self-confidence is acceptance,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: like accepting what I'm not good at accepting what I
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: will never will. There's some stuff, no matter how hard
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I try, bro, I'm not going to be good at that.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And some people will hear that and say, Oh, you're
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: doubting yourself. You're putting yourself down. Oh, I am being
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: realistic about what my bandwidth and what my prospects are
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: with this face, this body, this brain.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Real right. Um, Yeah. No, no. Listen, first of all,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you can't do nothing about your face here.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And I just want to let you know, it's okay, brother.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Cause I wouldn't want to do nothing about my face.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm not saying you didn't, you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: do something, you know what I mean? But what is yours?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: That's not the point of this. You know, we just,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: we work with what we got, brother.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Um, you.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Got a serious thing that you said that I still
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: identify with though.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with you, man?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Come on, man.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You know we're going to get out here and have
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: some fun.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, never get too high, never get too low. Right.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I subscribe to that. Richard Kipling's poem, If, which you
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: know something about.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And my favorite line is, if you can meet with
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: So we live in a world that defines us by extremes.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: That's it. you are defined very often by the external
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: world of your best moment or your worst moment, right?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I have seen that firsthand. So I was, I produced
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the Oscars. I was part of the first all-Black producing
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: team of the Academy Awards Oscars. Well, yeah. 2022.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: But what people remember is that I produced the Oscars
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: where Will Smith went on stage, right?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was that joint?
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: That was that joint. That was that joint.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: That was me.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: That was my year. And I bring that up because
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of people define Will Smith by that moment.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of people still do. Right. And he had
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: a three decade career in Hollywood prior to that moment
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: of being somebody who was, you know, loved, adored, received
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: all the adulation, all of that. Right.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Historic run.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. But that moment was one of his worst moments.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing that people try to define him by. Now,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you don't have to be somebody that was a big
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: global star and then went on stage and slapped somebody
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: and everybody's talking about it. You don't have to be that.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Your worst moment could be something else. But right now
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: in today's world, people will want to define you by it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: So you said something that I feel is so apropos,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: which is that you are not the highest or the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: lowest of your accolades, the things that you've done, the
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: decisions you've made, you're none of Never get too high,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: never get too low. Stay consistent. It goes back to
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: what we talked about before. The thing that you can
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: control is you. The external world is going to be
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: throwing all kinds of things at you. The thing that
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: is consistent is you. And if you try to keep
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: an even keel, people tell you, Keir, oh my God,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: New York Times, you're the best author ever, ever. Never
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: been nobody greater, right? Or, oh my God, Keir, the
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: last podcast episode, they didn't do numbers, brother.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: You got to be the worst.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Podcaster in the history of, none of that's true. Neither
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: one of them. Neither one of them are true. And
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: so if you can keep yourself even, never get too high,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: never get too low.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Pat yourself on the back. Receive the accolades. Absolutely nothing
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: wrong with that. By the way, receive correction. Do better
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: when you know that there's things that you did that
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: didn't meet them. One thousand percent.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You can't get better at anything if you cannot take
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: constructive criticism and do something useful with it. You can't
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: get better at anything. Or I will say this. You
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: may be able to get better, but your better will
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: have a ceiling on it comparative to what it would
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: be if you were able to take an uncomfortable thing
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: that someone's telling you about your performance, your presentation, whatever,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and allow that to give you data as to what
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you should adjust, what you should probably change. Or maybe
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: you could just let it fly in one ear and
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: out the other and it's just something to be mindful of.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: But you need to be able to take that criticism
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: there will be a ceiling.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Sorry. You said something that I felt was so apropos,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: which is about never getting too high, never getting too low.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And I subscribe to that. I believe in that because
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the Roger Kipling poem, if says, if you can meet
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters, just
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the same. The key is that they're both imposters. That's
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: the thing. Triumph and disaster are both imposters. Neither of
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: them are real. And if you remember that, Remember that
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: you are not the best thing you've ever done and
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: you are certainly not the worst thing you've ever done.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: You are a work in progress, constantly changing kinetic ball
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: of energy and amazingness that is always going between good decisions,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: bad decisions, doing stuff great, doing stuff not so great.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Just know somewhere in between therein lies a true you.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: You can have a level of self-confidence in yourself that
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: you don't have to feel like, I always got to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: get it right. Or anytime I get it wrong, I just,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I ain't no good, right? None of that's true.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Nah, it allows you to oscillate, man, and go back
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: and forth between the realities that both belong to you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: And look, T.I. is one of my favorite rappers. He
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: always said, if you live by the cheers, you'll die
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: by the booze. And I love that term because me
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: not letting the highs get me too high doesn't mean
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that I don't celebrate wins or I don't bask in
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: how amazing that win is. It just lets me know
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I partitioned it out to your point. Like this is
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the win for right now. There will be other opportunities
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: where the outcome may be different. But no matter what
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the outcome is, me, I have to keep myself level
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and keep myself realistic.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And I have to keep going. And you said something
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: about quitting. That's along the lines of how I feel.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I always tell my wife, me and my wife joke
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: all the time. We'll say, man, I wish I had
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: more quit in me. I wish I had more quit
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: in me sometimes because I probably should have let go
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of Daniel in on the chopper four years ago, but
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I'm still here. I just, I don't have enough quit
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: in me. So I got a question for you.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: You talk about like the fortuitous no, right? And I
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: know the story, you got the Beyonce story where you
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: wanted her to say yes to your, your film, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: you asked her like six times and she finally said
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: yes on the sixth time. By the way, that movie
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: creeped me all the way out. I still think about
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: it sometimes.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Obsessed. Obsession was the horror joint that just came out.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Obsessed is the one Beyonce hid herself. Is that the
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: one that creeps you out?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: The one with the lady, she was holding her baby
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: in the thing? Yeah. Is that the right movie?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: That's yours?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's mine, yeah. Yeah, that movie creeped me out.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: There was a movie.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Recently called Obsession that was actually a straight-up horror movie.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Mine was a thriller. Beyonce and Idris.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Obsessed.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Obsessed was mine.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: But the white girl, I felt you wanted to say
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: white girl. You didn't want to say white.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I got weird
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: with that for some reason. I don't know.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It just happened.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: The woman, the woman. It's fine. It was just, we
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: kind of played on the racial dynamics of it because
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: it's a black couple and it was like the crazy
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: white chick. And, but anyway, yes. I asked Beyonce six times.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Six times.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, they took one?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I finally got to it. If somebody tells you no,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: you get rejected. You get told no. If you can
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: find out why they told you no, then that is
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: a valuable no. What I call a fortuitous no. Because
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: you've got information now that you can use either to
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: adjust what you're asking, adjust your pitch, adjust yourself. to
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: now maybe go back and get the yes or just
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: be better going forward. You may never get the yes
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: from your Beyonce, right? Whatever that may be. But if
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: somebody says, you know, and they don't tell you why, well,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: there's not a lot of value in it. But if
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: they tell you, no, okay, here, no, I'm not going
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: to executive produce your movie idea. Let me tell you why.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Because I don't feel like it has a strong third
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: act or it doesn't have particular commercial elements that it
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: would need or actors attached. Now you have information. We
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: like to say, you know what? That person just hating
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: on me. They told me, no, they rejected me. I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: now feel like either I'm not worthy or they're not worthy.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: That's not, neither one of those is true. Take the information.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: See if you can find out why you got the no.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Even if you don't agree with it, you at least
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: know why that particular person with their POV and their
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: experience said that to you. And you can do something
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: with that and turn that into something positive. That's where
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I coined that phrase, fortuitous no.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Nah, I like that. I like the idea that that
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: goes back to what we talked about a few minutes
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: ago in terms of taking constructive criticism and being able
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: to do something with it. Sometimes when I do speaking
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: events or if we have just something where a lot
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of people come, or if I have a course that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I offer to the public for a price, I always
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: put an exit survey on it. And I tell people, hey,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: do not be nice. Being nice to me is not
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: helping me. I want you to tell me what your
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: real experience is. Because if you say, hey, I enjoyed
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the course, but the modules were a little too long.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: That lets me know, oh, perhaps maybe I need to
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: shorten or condense or streamline what I'm doing. As opposed
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to saying, nah, I care. Everything was great. That may
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: feel good, but it doesn't give me any information.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: And I need the info.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the difference is that you are outside requesting
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: feedback from people for a product that you are offering them.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: The average person has to be OK with getting the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: feedback in the same way that you're asking for it
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and removing their emotion from the feedback. The average person
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: may not be out there doing a public speaking therapy
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: driven course that people can subscribe to. It doesn't mean
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: there's not value in getting feedback from other people. You've
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: got to remove ego and emotion in order to really
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: be able to receive it if it's valuable. Not all
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: feedback is valuable. But if it is from somebody who
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: is deserving of giving you feedback, you've got to be
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: discerning about that. But if it is somebody that is
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: deserving of giving you feedback, then the key is you removing,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: stripping your ego and being able to hear somebody tell
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you that maybe you're not the greatest person in the
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: world but you're certainly not the worst in the world
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: this is their opinion take it in and figure out
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: if there are things that you want to adjust.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Will Packer is never giving up always good advice.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: No no now this is something that people don't want
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: to hear okay give it to us man it's okay
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to give up man it is okay to give up
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: okay That is the power that you have. The most
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: successful people in the world have given up. Now, here's
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the difference. Follow me. You can give up, but you
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: never quit. Okay?
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute. What's the difference in your mind between
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: giving up and quitting?
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Yes. So... It's about the pivot. It's about the change.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about the semantics of it, okay? Doing something
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: the same way unsuccessfully is the definition of insanity. That's
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: not what I am encouraging people to do. Don't keep
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: banging your head against the same door That is not
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: opening for you. You have to find a window. You
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: have to find an attic. You have to find a
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: crawl space. That's a pivot. The most successful people in
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: the world pivot what they're doing. You control the pivot.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: That is the power of the pivot, okay? The power
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: of the pivot is you say, I'm going to do
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: something different. When you say, I'm done, I can't do it.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I'm done chasing my dream no matter what. That's quitting.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: That's not what you're going to do, right? Really, really,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I would reverse the semantics and say that's giving up,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: giving your power away to somebody else, right? Never give up,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: but you can quit, meaning you can pivot. So whether
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: the terminology is quit or give up, the point is
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: it's okay to change your focus and your tact because
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: successful people do.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: It all the time.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you, I'm going to have to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: do that this week with something that I've been pushing,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: pushing for trying to get a particular project made. And
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I already know I'm going to have to pivot the
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: way that I'm thinking about making that project. And that's okay.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: That's okay.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's, that's a tough pill to swallow. And sometimes,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: so I had this quote, well, let me get this
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: thought out first. Sometimes the pivot doesn't always feel good
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: because we don't just get married to the outcome. We
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: get married to how the outcome was supposed to look.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Like I drew the, the, the crossing the finish line
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: to be the ceremonious thing where, the rain starts coming
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and it's like this, like you start romanticizing not just
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the outcome, but how it's supposed to feel and what
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to look like. And I think sometimes when
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: folks have to pivot, it challenges that, man. It challenges
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: this illustration of the finally moment. And you marry the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: way it's supposed to look and feel to what actual
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: success is so much that if it doesn't look and
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: feel the way you want it to, you don't see
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it as success. And I had this quote that people
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: used to cook me for, man. And I still stand
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: on it. I think the world's in a different place now.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I said, faith is a beautiful thing. Faith is an
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: amazing thing to hold on to. And sometimes it's even
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: more of an amazing thing to let go of.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying let go of faith in your
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: will to live or your will to be great. But
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: if something is not working and it has not been
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: working and there's no evidence that it is going to
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: be working at this pace and you don't recruit the help,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: You don't recruit the assistants or the guidance or the mentorship. Like, yo,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: it's okay to give up faith that that thing is
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: going to happen for you that way.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That goes to your statement about don't get so
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: consumed with how you do it and what it's supposed
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to look like.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I am somebody that I believe you got to keep
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: the main thing, the main thing. And I tell a
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: story in my book about a very successful brother who
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: lived in Nashville, and his name was Daryl Freeman. And
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: he was a very close friend of mine. And we
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: lost him. He passed. And he was very, very accomplished.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: He was somebody that had his own business, sold his
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: own business, had his own plane, had property outside of
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: the country. He happened to be a very... you know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: very well-respected member of Omega. He was an Omega man.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: And he ran Ironman. He completed Ironman competitions, right? And
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: the level of mental fortitude that you have to have.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Right? Like it's insane. But at some point at his
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: motto was, Hey, you got to keep the main thing,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: the main thing. He would say that to me, keep
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the main thing, the main thing. At some point in
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: his life, he lost track of the main thing. And
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: the main thing no longer became his main thing. And
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the main thing was him. And he lost track of that.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: And he took his own life and we lost him.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And he was an incredible bro. For him, the world
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: got so loud and he did not keep focus on
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: that main thing. And when you say, don't get caught
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: up on the how i relate that to my motto
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: keep focus on what is actually really important i i
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: turned 50 recently. You don't know nothing about that young bud,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: but someday I pray that you will get to this,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: this other side of enlightenment, enlightenment that us grown folks
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: are at. Okay.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: That's the goal, man. I got all these bills. I'm
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: grown for, I ain't sitting in the kids.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You hear me?
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Put some respect on my age.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: All right. I see.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Listen, you got the grades and show it, brother.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I'm with you, but, but 50 hits a little different.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. You're absolutely right on that though.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: And when I did it, I said, I'm on a,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Run a marathon. I just had always said I want
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: to run a marathon. And I made that like just
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: kind of one of my bucket list things for when
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I turned 50. And I had, like you, this vision
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of me. And I was going to train. And I did.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I trained for six months. And I said, man, when
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I cross that finish line, I'm going to have my
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: hands in the air. All my people are going to
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: be there cheering me on. I'm about to destroy this
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: damn marathon. Right? Here, games. Let me tell you something.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: It was one of the worst experiences of my life.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: That's why I said different, huh?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: A marathon is 26.2 miles. My leg gave out on
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: me at mile five.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, them jello legs. Mile five.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: My leg started cramping. I had trained for this, mind you.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I had trained. I had done the carb loading before.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I had done everything right. But for whatever reason, on
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: that day, my body said, shit me.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: My body said, the hell you say?
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I finished that marathon.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I completed it. It did not look the way I
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: wanted it to look. I had a time in my
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: head I was going to beat. I knew other people
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: that had run it. I remember Kevin Hart is one
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: of my best guys and we were talking trash.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to beat your time, bro.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: What's your time?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to beat that. Let me tell you something, Kier.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Not only did I not beat his time, it was
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: little old ladies that was passing me on the way in.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Because by the time I crossed that finish.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Line, I was done. I was a shell of myself.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: But I did it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: That's the point.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I did it. I stumbled across that finish line. Barely
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: got there. It did not look the way that I
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: thought it was going to look. It did not look
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: pretty and heroic and triumphant. But you know what? It
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: still was because I got the damn thing done.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: You can't control some things.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: You've got to keep your eye on the problem and
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: keep the main thing a main thing.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Man, that's such a metaphor for life. That's a great
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: story because when you do marry the narrative, like even
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: in therapy, sometimes people will come in and we'll talk
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: about their goals and dreams or what's happened to them
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: that was successful, but they don't file it away as success.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't look a certain way. And we always
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: got to break down the, okay, well, which girl are
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: you marrying right now? Is it the narrative or the outcome?
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: You know, and we personalize the narrative because it has
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: our signature on it. You whip that joint up from scratch.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: The outcome is what it is. But if you can't
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: enjoy the outcome past the narrative, I think it sets
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you up. to not only have some hurt feelings, but
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: to have some bad habits.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: The first time I ever seen you was, oh man,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it was a movie premiere for one of your movies.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: You were there?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I was there. You ain't know me, man. Yeah, this
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: was at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I think it was an Idris Elba movie. D.E.E.S.? With
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the lion.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: With the lion, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: That was a good movie.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And you came out, and I just.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: How did you get in? Because I don't remember you
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: being on the list. Did you, like, did you cue
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: that thing?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Did you Omega that thing?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Like, you know.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: No, I got relationships with Netflix, so it's okay. Okay.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But that wasn't Netflix movie, so I'm... Oh, that
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: was another commitment.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: How did you get in?
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I walked in, and I grabbed a security guard by
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: both hands, and I said, let me in this joint.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Put my face on the wall.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Negro.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm still coming up in that joint. And I'm
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: going to come with all my Q stuff. I don't
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: remember how it got out.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: First of all, don't do the Q thing, but you're welcome.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: You can come to any of my premieres. You just
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: can't wear purple and gold.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: You know something crazy? That premiere was the last time
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I saw the running back, Chris Johnson. He just got
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with ALS. I met him at that premiere, him
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: and Sherri Shepherd. And I'm so glad because I was
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: such a fan of his. When I met him, I
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: was like, yo, that's another fan. I was like, yo,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that's Chris Johnson. That's CJ2K right there. CJ2K.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I always think about him with that. But question for
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you is, like, what habits and skills and sacrifices turn
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: you from somebody with, like, you were a young man
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: with ambition. I think that's very clear. But what turned
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: you from a young man with ambition to Will Packer,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: the Hollywood hitman? You know, because you, by all accounts, bro,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: you've made it. Like, you him right now. So, like,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: which part of that ground still serves you, man?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a real question. I mean, I'm very blessed.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I think that I accept everything you said, except that, like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: you made it. Because that's just not something that is
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: in my vocabulary. Will, you don't feel like you made it, bro?
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've done a great job, and I'm
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: on the way to.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Will, nah, man. This podcast can't get no further, man. Will,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: you don't feel like you made it?
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I got more to do. When you make it, everything
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: you're saying implies finished.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I see it different.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Where do you go when you make it? Where else
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: do you have to go? Some of this is just
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: a POV, but I'm just saying. My POV is that
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I don't like the finality of saying I did it.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: I accomplished it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I made it.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I'm done. I have to. Here's the thing. The way
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I got to being where I am today is the
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: thing that sustains me and keeps me driving and keeps
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: me pushing forward. So for me, listen, I am very blessed.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I live an amazing life and I like to work
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: very hard so I can play hard. I take the
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: highs with the lows. Like I have, through my maturity,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: learned a pretty good work-life balance. It's taking me some time.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: So it's not like, I mean, do I think I'm
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: a workaholic? Do I think I, like you, wish I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: had a little more acquittal in me? Absolutely, sure. But
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I think, and I want
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to hear your opinion, but I think when you are
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: verbalizing the words, I made it, I made it, it
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: implies that you don't have anywhere else to go and
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: you don't have anything else to accomplish or prove, not
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: to anybody else, but to yourself. So I think I've
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: done a lot of incredible things. I would stop just
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: short of saying I made it. That is too final
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: for me. Okay.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: When you say it like that, I can understand that.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I think the difference between the way you see it
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: and the way I see it, like you said, it's
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: a matter of perspective. To me, made it isn't definitive.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Made it is less sitting on top of the pillar
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: and holding your trophy, like the race is over. I
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: don't see made it like that. It doesn't have that
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: kind of finality in my mind to me made it
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: as you passed a certain threshold, like how you finish
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: that race. I mean, if you decide to run another race,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: it doesn't erase the one that you just did. You
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: still made it, but there are other levels to made it.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: So like you, you made it once you made your
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: first movie, you made it once you made your second.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And I think after that, it kind of gets blurry,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: but made it to me is you pass a certain
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: threshold of, of success that's hard to obtain, just hard
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: to attain. Look at us right now. We both are
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling authors. Most books, will they sell
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: between what, like 105,000 copies?
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: 99% of them. And by the way, there's no disrespect
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: to somebody out there that sold between 100 to 5,000
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: copies because it's hard to do that. It's almost impossible.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: In this environment, it's hard. But you're right. And in
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: a sense, and I hear you, we have made it, right?
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: We have certainly accomplished something that many people do not.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: And we should absolutely revel in that. I just think
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: that we got more to do. And the way you
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: got on that New York Times bestseller list is the
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: same way that you're going to get on there again
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: and continue to rise to heights that maybe even you
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: don't know what they're going to be. That's my opinion.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I received that, brother. I received that. I wouldn't just
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: rest on my laurels and say I made it. I'm
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: good now because the thing that gets you here is
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: not the thing that keeps you here. Like it's a
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: different skill set.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: You know what? While I'm in the spirit of that,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: when I say that, what usually happens is I used
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: to be a personal trainer and I always use muscles,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: for example. So like what the muscle that it takes
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: to get you here is one thing and it's one
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: skill set, but the muscle that it takes to keep
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: you here is a different thing. You can be great
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: at bench presses, man, when you're pushing weight off of you.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: You can suck at pull-ups when you're pulling your body
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: weight up past a certain point. Yes, yes. muscles atrophy
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: so when you don't continuously use them you don't exercise
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: them they shrink to a nothing man I was I
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: was watching I don't know if you listen to Kiki
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Palmer's podcast.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah she's amazing she's cooking right now cooking.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Can I say something? Yeah, what's up? She's just an
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: example of somebody that people look at and go, yo,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: she's having such a moment. She is doing her thing.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Years and a million.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Kiki. Decades. Decades, bro.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Decades.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Decades, right? Just like my first number one wasn't for
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: 10 years after I graduated from college. She has been
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: in this game. I mean, you know, those who don't know,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Akilah and the B. Akilah and the B.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: That was my joint with Lawrence Fishburne.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. When she, Lawrence Fishburne, and young, young, tween
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Kiki Palmer, right?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And you look at her now, her journey has been
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: something to behold. And so I only say that because
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: there's somebody listening to this right now that feels like
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I'm in a season that is where things aren't working
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: for me. And I just want to remind people when
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: they look at it, you're gained. or a Will Packer,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: or a Kiki Palmer, I just always want to remind
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: people that there were a lot of times and a
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: lot of days when people were not talking about how
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: hot those people were. They were not talking about Kier
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: with the New York Times bestseller because he didn't have it.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: with this whole media empire because he didn't have it.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Will Patrick with whatever his accolades are. Keke Palmer, who's
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: getting a lot of love for cooking right now. There
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: was a lot of time when that was not the case.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: So if that's you right now, I'm talking to somebody. Listen,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: if that's you right now, it's okay. It's okay that
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: we all been there. Anyway, go back to Keke.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: No, that's a good point. And if you heard that,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: just take a second and sit with it and let
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: that soak into you because that is... a thousand percent true,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: but she had Michelle Williams on her pod.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, my girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: And she was talking about how, um, she had told
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: a colleague one time that she was so tired and
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: she quickly followed it up with, but I'm grateful. And
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: her colleague said to her, the thing I say to
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: everybody said, Hey, you know, you could be both, right?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Like you're, you're allowed to be grateful and tired at
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the same time. I want you to talk to me
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: about how, Even if it's not you, just the way
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: you think about holding space for the exhaustion that comes
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: with pursuing the dream. Yeah. Also holding space for the
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: gratitude for living inside them answered prayers, man.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's always both. It is always both. If you
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: are working hard and chasing something that is worth being
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: chased and worth attaining, that means it's hard. That means
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: you're going to be tired. Hand in hand with that
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: is being grateful for the ability to go on that journey.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: So they are not mutually exclusive at all. They're not
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: even two separate things. They're two sides of the same coin.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: That exhaustion that you feel, like some days I think, Man,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: I am so tired because I got, you know, I'll
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: look at my schedule for the day and I'm like,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: who is about to do these 29 things that I
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: got to do before 4 p.m.? And then the other
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: 30 I got to do after 4 p.m. And then
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I will remind myself, Packer, you prayed for this. Packer,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: when you had nobody wanting you to do anything, no interviews,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: nobody was inviting you on that podcast, you didn't have
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: one number one movie, you prayed to be so busy
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: that you were so tired because you had so much
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: to do. Don't forget that, Packer. I literally have that
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: conversation with myself. They go hand in hand. The journey
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: is going to be tough, but it's the gratitude for
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: even being able to try to accomplish it that you
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: can't let go of.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Nah, that's, that's, that's 100, man. My, my, the thing
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: that I give myself is, um, uh, if you are
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: a fan of the pod, you probably heard me say
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: this a couple of times, but life is all about
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: holding competing realities at the same time. And I can
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: be thankful for the thing that I have risen to
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: while also being frustrated about what it costs because it's
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: associated costs. You got to pay the tax man regardless. Yeah.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Always on interviews and always on pods and, I mean, Will,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: you did your, you know, man, you know as good
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: as anybody else, if not better. Like after a while
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: of conversations, bro, good Lord, it gets exhausting, man. And
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I'm allowed to be tired, but also thankful. Like I'm
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: allowed to be tired and thankful. Being, there's this pastor
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: named Mike Todd, and he said one time, I couldn't
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: hear it, at the time. Cause I was too hungry,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: but he said, man, success is traumatizing. You think you
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: just get through the door. It's not just getting through
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: the doors, everything you have to do to maintain and
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: grow it. And I thought he was so full of trauma, man, whatever, bro,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you got bread. You, you, you, you can buy a
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Lamborghini tomorrow if you want. Nah, I get it. He's
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: absolutely right. Beyond what it looks like is what it
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: actually is. And that's, That's the thing that you have
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: to uphold and upkeep, man. It could be challenging in
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: a million different ways.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But I do want to say, though, Kier, it's
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: worth it. I don't regret for one second the grind,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: the trauma that it took me to overcome in order
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: to get to where I am today. I don't regret
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: it for a second. And I say that because... You know,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: there are cats that look at you and I like
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: you looked at my top and they go, I don't
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: want to hear how traumatizing success is, even though it
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: may be true because I am not where I want
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: to be. And you all are. Here's the thing. It's
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: worth it. It's worth it.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely difficult. Getting in is one thing. Staying in
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: and staying on the top and sustaining is a completely
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: different thing and completely different muscle. but it's absolutely worth it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I don't regret it for a second because I feel
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: like I have, I'm not done, I haven't made it,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: but I feel like I have come a long way
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: in fulfilling my life's purpose on this earth. As long
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: as God allows me to stay on this earth, I
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: feel like I have done a lot towards where ultimately
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I hope that I can be in terms of leaving
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: a legacy and accomplishing things and inspiring others.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Brother, I think that goes without, without saying, I mean, you,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: you live in it, you, you too close to it,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: but as an observer, I think you've, you've passed that
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: threshold a long time ago. Yeah, absolutely. It's super inspiring.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: And it's, it's not just for me, man. A lot
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: of men, we attach our identity like to what we accomplish,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: which we get, we get cooked for. I don't always
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: see that as a bad thing, as long as it's
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: not obsessive or compulsive and ruin the other parts of
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: your life. But, the grind can become addictive because there's always, uh,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: it's always another level to reach. It's another thing to do,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: another accomplish, another accomplishment to, to put in your pocket.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: But how have you learned how to recognize when ambition
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: is more purpose driven and versus when it's being driven
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: by fear or validation?
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: You know, We each have to take an individual journey
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: of finding our purpose. And that is something that speaks
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: to you deep on a much deeper level than the
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: external and surface level accolades that many people are chasing.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: It feels different when you are living in, walking in
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: and working towards your purpose than doing something for an
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: accolade or an external validation. I have got you know,
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: 10 number one movies at the box office. When I
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: have a number one movie at the box office, it's incredible.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: It's a great feeling. I get a lot of calls
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and pass on the back and congratulations. That's external validation.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: That's not my purpose. My purpose is when I make
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: a movie like Stomp the Yard and I have black
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: parents come up to me and say, my young son,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: child decided to go to college because they saw Stomp
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: the Yard and you made it look cool. That's my purpose,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: is to use my position in media and creating narratives
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: and content to influence people in a positive way. It
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: was always my goal to shine a light on HBCUs.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: and Black Greek letter organizations with Stomp the Yard. And
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: I wrapped it in a dance movie so it would
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: be palatable to broad audiences. When somebody comes up to
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: me and says, that impacted my kid, or now I
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: have those people who saw Stomp the Yard when they
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: were in high school who have now graduated, I've had
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: people come up to me and say, that movie made
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: me want to go to college, want to go to
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: a Black college, want to join a fraternity because you
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: made it look cool. That's my point. purpose it hits
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: different and it hits deeper than that external validation which
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: that fades that's gonna fade but.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Quickly more more quickly than you would think yeah more
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: quickly than you would think man that's damn that's that's
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: right on time i'm kind of like i'm i'm in
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: there in my career i thought that uh and i'm
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: being honest about this i might feel differently one day
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: but we already talked about the pivot if if i
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: feel differently one day that means i grew so clap
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: for me But right now I was in a point
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: where I thought all this stuff that I was doing
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: would make me happy and it will give me purpose.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: And I, like even the book thing, like it's great,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't, it doesn't make me happy. And it,
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: it selling a lot of books doesn't give me purpose.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: It's when I did my author talk and I looked
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: in the corner and it was this young man, he
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: was 21 years old. He was listening to every word
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: I said. He had a copy of my book on
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: his lap. And when I signed this book, he was like, man,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I appreciate what you say and what you share because
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: it makes me think differently.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, that's it.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: That means more than any bestseller list or number of
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: books sold. That interaction meant more to you than any
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: of that, because that is what your purpose is.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: To affect brothers like that. And for it to be valid. Yeah.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: For it to be validated like that. I went to
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: a trampoline park and this woman, maybe, maybe mid fifties
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: was with the kid, this white woman. And she stopped me.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: She was like, yo, you hear games? And she told
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: me how it, how the content helped her talk to
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: her husband differently. I said, that's, that's the piece. That's
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: where my purpose comes from. It doesn't come from necessarily
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: having a pod. It doesn't come from having followers. It
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't come from brand partnerships. Those things are great. That's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: the work of it so that we can get to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: the part that actually changes people.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: And no question. Yeah.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: The purpose is the thing, man. Like that's the main
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: thing to me.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: You mentioned like it didn't make you happy. And, you know,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: and I love that story. I have questions about it because,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: you know, you were at the trampoline park. Like, was
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: it just you? Did you bring kids with you? I
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: had my daughters with me.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I feel better about the story now. But I would
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: not have judged you for going to the trampoline park.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: I just did not know how you showed up.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: This is your problem.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Nah, this is your problem.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: This is your problem. I'm not being vulnerable with you
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: no more.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. Nah, come on.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Here you go.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: And like you there playing with other people's children. I
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: just did not know how.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: You got on orange socks and that's your hat right now?
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Is that what we're doing?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Well, this is family, so I would be easy because
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Rattler Nation is in the comments. What you're not going.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: To do is turn that gigantic student body against me
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: for something I did not say.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to tell you, just... Be easy.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Don't weaponize your alma mater. That's what we ain't going through.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Well, if I need to. Only if I need to.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Y'all see how Will talk
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: to me, man?
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I'm from a place of love. He's still going.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: From the height of Alpha, I reached down to Omega
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: and show you love. My point was... Happiness, okay? It
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: made you happy at that trampoline park. I feel more
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: comfortable with you with your daughters. I don't care if you... Listen,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: black men need joy. If you want to go jump
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: on that trampoline, brother, I'm not even going to judge you.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not even being funny now. I say do what
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: you want to do. What I would say, though, about happiness,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: because you did touch on that, is none of that
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: material stuff is going to make you happy. And again,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: I know when you're in a particular place in your life,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: you're like, bro, I don't want to hear that. You
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: got the material stuff. Don't tell me what, let me
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: try it first. I used to say that. I used
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: to say, let me get the material stuff and I'll
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: tell you if it makes me happy or not because
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: I don't have nothing. I was that guy.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: So I understand.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: But just hear me out. Hear me out. What Kier
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: said is so apropos because it's not going to make
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: you happy in the way that getting that fulfilling feedback
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: from somebody that you touch will actually give you joy
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: in the way that my relationship, okay? Now, Black men,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: people don't want to hear this. I'm who I am
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: and where I am because I found my person, my
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: right hand and my partner who supports, undergirds, pushes me,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: challenges me, drives me freaking crazy. All those things makes
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: my life that much more enjoyable, joyful, and gives me
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: much more validation for my success than just a number
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: one box office movie or a check coming from a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: TV show. And as black men, we like to think, okay,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: I got to do my thing. And then I'll find
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: my queen or I need to get to a certain
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: level of success. Then I'll find my queen or I
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: need my queen to not hold me back from what
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I'm chasing. The right queen is going to elevate you
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: in a way that you can't even imagine and help
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: get you towards that success. And not a lot of
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: us heard that from our fathers because that Black family
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: relationship has been difficult culturally and historically at times. And
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of that is because our families were divided
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: by a system, right? An American system that said we're
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: going to divide the Black family. I am here to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: tell you There's a level of success that you can
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: attain by having somebody next to you, by having a partner,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: a life partner who believes and shares in your dreams
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: and you believe and share in theirs. You can unlock
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: something in you that you don't even know you have
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: that otherwise you can't get there. You can't do it alone.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you. Unpopular, don't wanna hear it,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: cook me, I don't care. You can't get there by yourself.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Having that right person to the right of you Makes
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: all the difference in the world.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Makes all the difference in the world. And 25-year-old me
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be hearing nothing you're saying right now. But 40-year-old
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: me who's been married for seven years, who has two kids,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: who co-owns this business with his wife. One of the
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: most heartbreaking things to me is when men, specifically Black men,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: who just haven't had successful romantic outcomes with Black women,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: who've been frustrated by things that have happened. ways that
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: they were treated, just unfavorable outcomes. Most relationships go south.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: They don't believe that that type of love exists. So
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: I would talk to them about me and my wife
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: and they'd just look at me like, man, she going
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: to leave as soon as the money go dry. It's like, boy,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: the money been dry.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Been dry.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Long time before things got good. And she was right.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: She's part of the reason that the money is up
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit now. 1,000%.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: That it ain't as dry as it used to be.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: The money, the confidence, the spirit, the level of family
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: success beyond monetary. Like my kids are confident. My kids...
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I thrive in my, my, my daughter is nice. She
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: used the term ubiquitous the other day. And I was like,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: hold up. What you know about that? But it's because
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: of the partnership and the ecosystem that the partnership creates, man.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you, it's crazy to me. You sustain
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: a major career and a long marriage in the industry
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: that I feel like it. Man, Hollywood, just my taste
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: of it, I feel like it will consume anything you
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: throw at it. Like that little plant from the little
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: shop of horrors, bro. Eat it up. Eat it up.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: It'll eat everything.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: So when you look back, what did the grind cost you? Maybe,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's relationship wise or maybe it
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: hit the whole family took, but what did the grind
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: cost you that you did not anticipate? Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Well, listen, I'm on my second marriage. OK, so you
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: know that. Let me.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: How long was the first one?
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Seven years. Seven.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Seven years. And she's an incredible mother. We have
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: two daughters together and, you know, we co-parent.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate to have her as a mother of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: my children. But I want to say that because I
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: don't want to sit up here and act like, oh,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: I just got it right. And I knew from the beginning.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: So when you say, what did you what did it
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: cost you? What did the grind cost you? Well, you know,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: my grind, my career was definitely a contributing factor to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: the failure of my first marriage. And I can say
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: that now because I'm years removed from it. But it
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: was a failure and it was tough and it hurt.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: The grind cost me aspects of my mental health. I
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: was going so hard at times and not having the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: proper balance and just going, going, going. And just like anything,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: whether you're talking about a person, an animal, a machine,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: you can't go forever. You will wear yourself down. And
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I was going and not replenishing. it cost me and
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: it hurt me with my mental health. And I had
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: to learn to balance that out. There were moments with
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: my family, with my kids, that I was not as
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: present as I should have been, needed to be, or
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: wanted to be, because I felt like I got to
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: go and I got to chase this grind. There's a
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: story I tell in my book about how my son,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: my oldest son, he played football. He was a football
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: player and He was telling a story one time about
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: like the worst pain he'd ever felt in his life
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: was when he had gotten surgery and he had, you know,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: injured himself and he had this injury and he was saying,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I was in so much pain. He was talking to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: one of his friends and he said, my grandmother was
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: there and she had to like take me to the bathroom.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. And
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, yo, I hear you telling that story.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: First of all, pain wasn't that bad. Stop whining. Like
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: stop trying to get attention.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Suck it up.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Wrong i was wrong but that's what i was saying
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: and i said i was there when you had the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: surgery i remember the surgery i remember you had the
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: the you got injured i was right there what are
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: you talking about he was like yeah you were there
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: for the surgery but then you had to leave when
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: i was in the recovery period and we brought in
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: grammy which is my mom we brought in grammy to
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: see about me because you had to go to L.A.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: I was living in Atlanta. You had to go to L.A.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: and you were working. And I did not remember that care.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: I just remembered him having a surgery. I was there
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: for the surgery and then I had to go work.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: I had to go do whatever I had to do,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: whatever meetings I had to take. You'll never forget for
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: the rest of his life that I wasn't there and
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: he wasn't blaming me. He wasn't coming at me saying
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: you weren't there when I was in this painful moment.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: It was kind of a matter of fact, like, yeah,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: my dad had to go.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Whatever I had to do in L.A., whoever I had
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: to meet with, they don't remember. I don't remember. You
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: could pay me a billion dollars. I couldn't tell you
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: what I had to do that drew me out of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: town while my son was recovering from surgery. I don't know.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: But my son will never, ever forget that moment and
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: who was around him at that time. That's what I'm
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: talking about when I say I didn't always get the
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: work-life balance right. There were things that I chased and
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: prioritized over things I did with my family. That's what
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: the grind cost me.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: You cooking, bro. You cooking.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: And T.D.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Jakes got this quote where he says, being a man
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: who's on the move and accomplishing things in the world
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: is tough. He said, because... He said, because if you
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: home all the time, you ain't making no money. You know,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: and if you making the money, you ain't never home.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: And even to promote the book, I had to miss
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: my oldest daughter's first day of school and she was
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: so upset. And I told my wife after that, I
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: was like, yo, after this run is over, I'm going
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: to reevaluate what's important because to me, I'm looking at
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it as the little kid who grew up in the
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: projects who would have died to live in this house, man,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: who would have died to have two parents in the crib,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: who would have, died to have AC and no roaches
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: in the backyard. And, but that my kids might not
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: care about that as much as they care about me
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: just being there. So I'm chasing something to fulfill what
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: I believe they need while neglecting what it is they
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: really need. And that's one of my biggest fears. And
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: when you on this road, like maybe I'll get really
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: vulnerable and talk about this, but like this shit is
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: not conducive to mental health. When you really out there
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: getting after it, man, you on a roll, you playing
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: the plane, the plane, you interviewing with people who don't
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: really know you, who pretending that they do a little bit.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: It's a disingenuous factor there. You're not eating the best
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: cause you out all the time. You're meeting with people,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: you shaking hands and kissing babies. There, there's an associated
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: cost that your family has to kind of, kind of undertake, man. And,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: you don't always know whether it's worth it, you know?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: And that's, that's why I'm taking a step back. Question
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: for you, not taking a step back, but I'm, I'm
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: going to scale.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: You're re-evaluating and recalibrating.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Got to.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Which we all need to do.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Got to.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: And you don't get to where you are. You don't
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: get on that lift by not sacrificing. You had to
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: sacrifice things to get there. You don't. chose to make
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: those sacrifices and thank god it paid off some people
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: made sacrifices like that and didn't get to where the.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Empty hand right absolutely yeah you made.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: The sacrifices got to where you are now is a
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: good time for you to recalibrate and say okay i
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: made those sacrifices i got to where i am i
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: missed my daughter's first day of school okay i'm not
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: gonna miss the dance i'm not gonna miss this i'm
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: not gonna miss the project or them you know like
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: you have to do a recalibration i do it all
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: the time yeah.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: It's part of That's so important. You also got to
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: check in with your people to make sure that, because
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: sometimes they're not tripping off the shit you think they
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: might be tripping off of. You know, I missed something
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: for my wife and I thought she'd be really upset.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: She did not care, Will. She was like, it's not
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: that bad. But had I just, you know, kept it
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: in my mind of letting her down and not even
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: checking in on her, I would have been perpetuating the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: truth that's only true to me. You know?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: I do that all the time. When I was, when
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I got divorced, I was seeing my kids, you know,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: like a lot of dads sporadically and a certain time
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: they were not in the same city. So I was,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: flying to them or they were flying to me. And
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: I always felt like I needed to pack those hours
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: with my daughters. I have two daughters from my first marriage.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: I have to pack those hours with fun stuff, stuff
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: that we're doing. We got to be at Disney. We
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: got to be at the mall. We got to be.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: And what I realized, and my mom told me that
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: she was like, those girls don't care about that. Like,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: they just want to be with you. You can either
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: just let them sit on your lap and watch TV
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: together or you read a book to them. They just
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: want your time. And when I realized that, because she
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: had been telling me that and I couldn't hear it
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: because I felt like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: You don't understand. I'm not around. I wasn't here this week.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: I got to make up for it this weekend. We
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: got to live. We got an agenda.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to do seven trillion things.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: We're going to close the amusement park down. Those girls
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: just wanted to be with me, just be around me.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Once I understood that, I was able to recalibrate.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm beginning to understand that now. And it's humbling, man,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: because you think you're doing everything for the greater good
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: of the family and the family. You know, you get
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: to take the trips to Aruba or Tahiti. You get
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: to do cool stuff. But there's it's not just your sacrifice.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: Everybody is losing something. And I just want to make
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: sure that I make a sustainable environment for everybody. But Will,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: does providing for your family excuse being absent?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, it does not.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: It does not.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: It is a surface level justification for your absence. ultimately
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: it is on you. It is incumbent upon you. If
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: you're the breadwinner or the head of your household, it's
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: incumbent upon you to find the right balance because they
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: cannot survive just on the material things you bring to
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: the house. That check, that bag, the resources you bring,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: the roof over the head, the good AC, the no roaches,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: that's great. It's not enough. It's not the only thing
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: they need. So a house that's not quite as big,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: but it's filled with love, That's probably a healthier environment
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: for them. That's on you. You have to be able
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: to balance that out. A lot of times we use
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: the excuse of, I got to do it. I got
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: to grind because sometimes the grind is easier than being
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: present with the family. People don't want to hear that.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's easy to be like, I got to go.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: Got to go. Got to go. Got to go. Because
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: you don't want to sit there and deal with the
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: hard shit at your house. You don't want to sit
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: there and deal with the problems that you don't actually
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: know how to solve, right? You know how to get
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: out there and hustle. Because you've been hustling in a
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: particular way. But sometimes the harder hustle to be present
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: at the house and that's what they really need. You
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: got to do that too. You got to do the
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: hard things. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Me and Shorty was talking about that. I come home
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: after a week on the road and I'm like, damn,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: the kid's socks in a different drawer now. Like where
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: the trash bags? The family shifts and moves in your
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: absence because when you're active and you're present, they rely
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: on you and you not being there means the systems
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: have to change in order for everybody to be okay.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: And it's like, hey, you come back to a completely
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: different house. Are we on new drop-offs on Tuesday no more?
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: All right. And you trying to catch up the whole time, man.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: It takes you to humble yourself and not take it personally,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: which I'm still struggling with, man. I still struggle with that.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: But it's getting so much better. And I'm committed. Like,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I'm committed to making it happen. And, you know, I
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: talk to my guys. It's not always. It's not a consensus.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Not everybody feels that way. But y'all do what y'all
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: do for y'all family. I'm just, you do what you
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: do for your own. I got to do what I
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: got to do for mine, brother.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: As long as when you come home, you still got
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: a place. You know what I'm saying? Because some cats
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: outside grind and they come home and it's like, oh,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: where my stuff? Oh, this is, this ain't even, this
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: ain't even my place no more. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: You got to be careful. You got to be careful.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going to lock that in.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: You got to be present. Be present at the house.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Pay attention to home.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: All right, so we're coming toward the end. I got
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: one more question I think I want to ask you,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: and then we're going to do a listener call, and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: then I'm going to let you go about, I don't know.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you do during the day, Will.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you don't know how.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: What would you imagine that I do during the day, sir?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: A day in the life of Will Packer, what would
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: you think that entails?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: So I wake up in the morning, as if I'm
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Will Packer, I wake up in the morning, and then
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: my staff brushes my teeth and put my clothes on,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: like coming to America. Then I hop on a private
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: jet and I fly from one side of my house
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: to the other. And, you know, I do a whole,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I do some Hollywood stuff for 10 minutes. You know
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, you got it. Then I go
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: in a room, I become like a tortured artist. I'm
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: writing up proposals and smoking like a whole pack of
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: cigarettes and I'm stressing out. And then I come and
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: I sit by the pool for a little bit, make
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: a motivational video. And then I take an early nap
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: and I wake up just in time to do it
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: all over again the next day.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: You definitely just described a human Scrooge McDuck. You made
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: me a degenerate black Scrooge McDuck. All right. All right.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to let you end that.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't even mention you swimming in your vault full
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: of gold doubloons. I didn't even take it there. Man,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: I got a question because I think you touched on
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: a lot, but one of the things that that I
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: find myself like kind of wondering about you.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: It's just like friendships.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: And cause you, you see like, well, for everything you,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: you accomplish every time I've ever met or talked to you,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: you come across like, like a guy, like a normal guy.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: And that's not the case with everybody that I meet
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: who's in the industry. And I love, I love, I
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: find it endearing, man, but I know that you have
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: people who you've been cool with, who you loved, in
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: the past before you were as successful as you are.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm kind of starting to get the phone calls that,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: hey bro, I got a proposal for you. Hey, bro,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: what you think about this? Hey, bro, I got this
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: business venture I want you to, you know, I want
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: you to look at. And it's becoming clear that people
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: are reaching out. People who've believed in me for a
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: long time are reaching out. And now there's like an
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: expectation that something is going to happen or like I
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: owe them something. I'm supposed to do something. I don't
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: feel that way. I want to know how you feel.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: If somebody believed in you before anybody else did, what
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: do you think you owe them once you make it?
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: I owe them my time, effort, and energy that is
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: appropriate for what I have and what they're asking for.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: I do not owe anybody a guaranteed anything, right? I don't,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: I don't have to give money or invest or make
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: a movie because somebody supported me. But I absolutely do
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: owe them my time, energy and effort to hear it out.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: And if it makes sense, prioritize that over somebody who
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know who wasn't there, who's not a day one,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: so to speak. But you got to be careful because
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: we get locked into this day one mentality. And a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: lot of times people who were with you at the
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: beginning are the same people and you've changed. You're a
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: different person. And you feel like I owe it to them, right?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: What you owe them is to try to give them
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: the tools that you got and that they helped you
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: to find, to find their own success.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear that shit.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Nah, because it sounds like you're being disloyal. It sounds
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: like you're not being gracious. You don't have gratitude. That's
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: not the case. That is the truth. Give yourself permission
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: to make decisions that are right for you and your
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: life and your family, right? Look, I know a lot
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: of cats that that are athletes. And that's a that's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: a different struggle because professional athletes, because you got a
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: lot of cats. It's like been cheering for you on
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: the sidelines since you were playing peewee league. And now
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: you're in the league and they need you and they hurt. Right.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: You will be right back where you started. and erase
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: all your accomplishments if you are not continuing to head
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: in the direction that you're going if you try to
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: go backwards because there is somebody there that you love.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Bring them to where you are. Don't go to where
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: they are.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Yep. Trent Richardson was an Alabama running back. He got
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: drafted by the Browns. I think Trent Richardson, I don't
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: know if he wasn't a Heisman, but he was a dog.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: He might have.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: I think Trent wasn't a Heisman. I just remember him
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: being a dog, but his family bled him dry, bro.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: bled him dry all his money gone he buying this
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: and you know auntie got a surgery okay well I'm
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: doing this and hey I need to come live with
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: you with my six kids alright come on in and
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: hey I need a house can you help me and
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: I think that my answer to that question what you
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: owe them is you owe them gratitude to me I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: owe you my gratitude if you believed in me and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I And I got to the spot where you always
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: thought I would be. I always shout you out. I
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: always mention that.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: But I think anything over gratitude starts to become a
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: question of, okay, well, how does this contribute to the
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: greater good? And I think there's the human conversation and
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: the business conversation. Care the human is not care the businessman.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Care the human is, hey, everybody come in. Hey, we
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: can all eat. Hey, care the businessman is this business
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: is a living, breathing entity that I have to be
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: very conscious of. about who I bring in, who I
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: let in, who I let get close to it. So
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: how do you know who to bring with you once you,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: I ain't going to say make it because I know
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: you got a different definition of that. But once you
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: start getting some success, how do you know who to
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: bring with you?
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: It's pretty simple to me. Are they adding value to
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: your life and are you adding value to theirs? It
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: needs to be a two-way street. If you're only adding
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: value to their life, They're not adding any to yours.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: You know what they're doing? They're leeching. They're sucking and dropping.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: It is a one-way relationship and it is transaction. But
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: if you're both adding value, right, that's different. So that
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: is a pure, simple test. It's hard. It's hard because
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: it can cause you to reevaluate relationships with people that
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: you love. But if they are not adding value to
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: your life, then what is their true purpose? We live
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: in a life where everything is vying for our attention
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: and draining our energy, everything.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: If you have.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: People around you who are also draining your energy and care,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: the people closest to you, are the biggest energy drain.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: 1,000, bruh? Absolutely.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: They just are. The people closest to you, they got
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: access to you, they know your vulnerabilities, they know how
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: to talk to you, know how to get what they
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: want out of you. They can be your biggest energy drain.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: You got a finite amount of energy and an infinite
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: number of things trying to drain it.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And it'll be even worse because it's harder
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: to establish boundaries with those folks, man. You know, my
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: joint is this, is, you know, how do I know
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: who to bring with me? question like it's to me
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: it's loyalty it's loyalty versus qualification and I get it
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: but what are your skills like how do you contribute
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: to this thing the worst thing you could do for
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: a successful business is just start bringing people in because
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: you you want them to feel good oh.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: That's the fastest way to not have a successful business
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: that's the fastest way to defeat fastest way to bankruptcy
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: fastest way to failure.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: Now we both sitting there asking each other can we
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: borrow $ 10 and pass the same $ 10 back and forth
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: for months at a time Absolutely.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Nobody's winning. Nobody's winning.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: Well, Will, if it's not clear to anybody in the world, man,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: I think you're winning not just because of your accomplishments, brother,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: but just how you show up, the candor that you
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: speak with, because you could be fake and you could
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: lie and you could say anything, but you came up
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: here and you were honest, man, and you said so
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: many things I know so many people can take with them.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: And just real talk, man, when we started this podcast,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: you really You put a life into me, man, and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: just what you think I could be and where you
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: think I could go. And that meant a lot to me.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: And I appreciate who you are, but I appreciate more
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: specifically how you show up, man. I think it's tremendous.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: And I thank you for being on the pod today, bro.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: I received that brother. I'm honored to be here. I really,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: really am. I meant everything I said to you to care.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to say this in front of anybody
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: that that is listening now. You have a voice that
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: is needed right now more than ever before. You have
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: a voice that is different, that is unique, and that
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: is extremely authentic. And this is a world that does
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: not always reward authenticity. It rewards people that understand how
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: to be showy and be flowery and be surface level.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: None of those words describe you. There is a realness
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: to you that I don't care if Like, I love
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: the fact that you made a New York Times bestseller
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: list that even if you hadn't, there is somebody like
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: a 21 year old brother that you referenced who read
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: your book, who needed to hear it. That is the
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: power of your voice. And if myself and others can
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: do anything to help augment and lift that up, the
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: magic is you. There's nobody else but you and the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: people around you that you have built in your own infrastructure.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: But there is something about it that is so essential
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: right now. Because people are hurting. They live in a
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: world that they feel like a left behind. The economy's crazy.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: People are in a place where they want to hear
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: a voice cut through that feels real, that is speaking
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: to their souls. That's something you do, brother. You don't
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: have to do it from a pulpit or from a
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: Capitol House or from a White House. You do it
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: with your platform in the way that you do it.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: You do it in your media. You do it in
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: the show. You do it in your book. That is
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: just as powerful. as somebody else who's got a different
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: platform and a different title. So I just want to
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: encourage you to keep doing what you do, bro. I mean,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: every word of that, my friend.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He, this is the way he talked to me
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: off camera. So he, he, he, I mean, thank you.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm going to put that in my pocket
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: and carry it with me, man. And if you are
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: out there and you enjoyed this episode, I mean, let
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: us know, share whatever thoughts or questions that may come
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: up for you. I want you to do the same
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: thing I ask you to do every episode. I want
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: you to leave a voice note that learnedthehardwaypod.com. That's learnedthehardwaypod.com.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: We listen to every single solitary message that y'all sent in. Hey,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: we'll even answer some of them because, you know, we
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: want to keep the conversation going and we're building this
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: community brick by brick today. Hey, real quick. What do
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: you got going on in the audience to support?
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: Yo, we got a new episode, new season, actually, of
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: my unscripted show, Ready to Love, the longest running black
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: dating show on television.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I'm very, very excited about that. We got a movie
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: on Netflix with Kevin Hart right now called 72 Hours.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: We were number one for a month on Netflix. We're
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: still in the top 10, still doing very, very well.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: Got a movie called You, Me, and Tuscany that's out
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: on Peacock right now that dropped in theaters earlier this year.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: My book is called Who Better Than You? The Art
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: New York Times and USA Today bestselling book, by the way. Facts. Facts.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: Very, very proud of that. So check it out. Check
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: out the audio book. We won an award for the
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: audio book, actually.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: I called in some of my folks to come in
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: and do some celebrity voices for me. So you'll recognize
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: some people when you hear it. But generally, just I
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: appreciate everybody for the support that they've done for anything
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: in there. in the Will Packer world and the Will
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: Packer universe. I'm very grateful.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, for Will Packer, I am Keir Gaines.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: And man, we appreciate you. We believe in you. But
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: most of all, man, you got to believe in and
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: appreciate yourself.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: Period.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Until next time, y'all be good. Talk to y'all later.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Job well done. Learn the Hard Way is a production
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcast. I'm your host, Keir Gaines. We're produced
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: by Courtney Deans and Kacen Alexander. Ashley J. Hobbs is
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: our senior producer. Our executive producers are Will Packer, Dr.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Joy Harden Bradford, Alex Baldwin, and Carla Wilmaris.