Latest / Investor Exchange / StarHub Is Entering What Leadership Calls The "Harvest" Phase – FY2025

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StarHub Is Entering What Leadership Calls The "Harvest" Phase – FY2025 · Investor Exchange

• 0:02
  Time for another Investor Exchange podcast. Here are your hosts, Matt and Sally.
• 0:07
  You know, I actually had a bit of a moment the other day. I was walking past
• 0:11
  one of those mobile kiosks at the mall.
• 0:14
  You know, the ones, bright lights, loud pop music pumping.
• 0:17
  And I saw a digital billboard for a mobile plan. It just said $10.
• 0:23
  $10 for a massive amount of data. Oh, it is wild, isn't it?
• 0:27
  I mean, I remember distinctly when $50 or $60 was the standard entry fee just
• 0:33
  to have a smartphone with a decent connection. Exactly.
• 0:35
  And, you know, as a consumer, I'm standing there looking at that $10 sign thinking,
• 0:38
  this is fantastic. My monthly phone bill is practically a rounding error now.
• 0:42
  But then the other half of my brain, the part that looks at businesses and stocks kicked in. Right.
• 0:47
  The math doesn't quite add up. Yeah. I thought, wait a minute,
• 0:50
  if I'm paying them peanuts, how on earth is the company running the massive
• 0:53
  power hungry network behind this actually keeping the lights on?
• 0:57
  That is the multi-billion dollar question.
• 1:00
  And it's exactly why we're looking at startup today, because that $10 sign isn't
• 1:04
  just a good deal for you. It's a...
• 1:06
  It's a warning shot for the whole telecommunications industry here in Singapore.
• 1:11
  So welcome to the deep dive. Today, we're unpacking the full year financial
• 1:15
  results for Starhub Limited, specifically for the financial year ended December 31st, 2025.
• 1:22
  And we've got the whole stack of sources for this one, the official financial
• 1:25
  statements, the investor presentation slides, the media release.
• 1:29
  Right. And our mission is simple. We need to strip away the corporate gloss.
• 1:33
  We're looking at this strictly from an investor perspective.
• 1:36
  We want to figure out if this company is actually growing, where the money is
• 1:39
  coming from, and honestly, if that brutal price war is slowly bleeding them dry.
• 1:44
  Exactly. Because Starhub has been telling a very specific story for the last
• 1:48
  few years, a story about tech transformation and pivoting to new business lines.
• 1:53
  Today, we find out if that story is actually translating into cold,
• 1:56
  hard cash in the bank account.
• 1:58
  I have to admit, I picked at the headline numbers before we started,
• 2:01
  and mixed bag feels like a generous understatement.
• 2:03
  Honestly, it looked a bit scary. It does look dramatic at first glance, I'll grant you that.
• 2:07
  But, you know, financial statements are rarely as simple as the bold text on page one.
• 2:12
  There are ghosts in these numbers. Ghosts from years past and some one-off hits
• 2:17
  that really distort the picture.
• 2:19
  All right, well, let's start at the very top. The money coming in the door. Revenue.
• 2:23
  For the full year, 2025, Starhub brought in 2.35 billion Singapore dollars.
• 2:31
  On the surface, billions sound great, but how does that actually compare to last year?
• 2:36
  It's effectively flat. It's down 0.6% year on year. Now, in a normal sable year, flat might be okay.
• 2:44
  But remember, we are living in an inflationary environment. Everything costs more.
• 2:49
  Wages, electricity to run the towers, equipment.
• 2:52
  So if your revenue is flat in nominal terms. Your purchasing power as a company
• 2:56
  is actually shrinking slightly. Yes.
• 2:58
  And if we dig a little deeper into what they call service revenue,
• 3:01
  which is the money they make from actually providing connectivity and solutions,
• 3:05
  not just selling iPhones or Samsung devices over the counter, it's down 1.3 percent.
• 3:09
  Right. So the cop line story is really one of stagnation. The business isn't
• 3:13
  falling off a cliff, but it is definitely not in a massive growth phase at the
• 3:18
  top line either. Which brings us to the bottom line.
• 3:20
  And this is where I got genuinely worried when I first looked.
• 3:24
  Net profit attributable to shareholders and patent.
• 3:28
  It came in at eighty six point four million dollars.
• 3:32
  Scary number. Because in twenty twenty four, that number was one hundred and
• 3:37
  sixty eight point one million.
• 3:39
  That is a drop of nearly forty six percent. They almost halved their profit.
• 3:43
  I mean, if you're a shareholder looking at your screen, you're panicking.
• 3:46
  And that panic would be completely understandable, but also a bit misplaced.
• 3:50
  This is where we have to put on our detective hats, that 46 percent drop.
• 3:54
  It's not because the business operations suddenly collapsed overnight.
• 3:57
  It's heavily influenced by two very specific, very large items that have nothing
• 4:02
  to do with selling broadband or mobile plans.
• 4:05
  OK, later, mommy, what ate the profit? The first one is a penalty.
• 4:09
  Well, essentially a forfeiture payment. In the first half of 2025.
• 4:13
  Starhub had to pay $14.1 million to the regulator, the IMDA. Why?
• 4:21
  Did they break a rule or something? Not exactly.
• 4:24
  They decided to return a specific slice of the airwaves, the 700 megahertz spectrum lot.
• 4:29
  They essentially gave those rights back to the government because they didn't need them.
• 4:33
  But there was a forfeiture fee attached to handing it back early.
• 4:37
  So they hand back the spectrum and they have to write a check for 14 million bucks. Ouch. Yeah.
• 4:42
  But it's a one-off hit. It won't happen again next year. Okay,
• 4:45
  so that's 14 million explained. But the profit dropped by way more than that.
• 4:49
  So what's the second factor? The second factor is a ghost from 2024.
• 4:53
  In 2024, their profit looked amazing. But part of the reason it looked so amazing
• 4:58
  was a dare plus provision reversal.
• 5:00
  I always hate that term, provision reversal.
• 5:03
  It just sounds like accounting magic.
• 5:06
  Give it to me in plain English. Think of it like this.
• 5:09
  In previous years, Starhub set aside a chunk of money in the cookie jar,
• 5:14
  saying, we are going to need this to pay for our big IT and network transformation.
• 5:19
  That counts as an expense on the books when they put it in the jar.
• 5:22
  But in 2024, they looked in the jar and said, hey, we didn't actually need to
• 5:27
  spend this $22.6 million.
• 5:29
  Ah. So they took it out of the jar and put it back into the profit column for
• 5:34
  2024. So 2024 was artificially boosted because they found money in their own
• 5:39
  pocket, like finding a $20 bill in a winter coat you haven't worn in a year.
• 5:44
  Precisely. So 2024 was artificially high because of the winter coat money and
• 5:47
  2025 was artificially low because of the spectrum fine.
• 5:51
  The double whammy of bad comparison. Got it. So if we play the what-if game,
• 5:55
  if we strip out the $14 million fine and we ignore the $22 million cookie jar
• 6:00
  money from last year, what does the real underlying profit look like?
• 6:05
  The underlying net profit comes in at $100.5 million.
• 6:08
  Okay. So $100 million versus the headline $86 million. That's better.
• 6:14
  But let's be honest, it's still lower than last year's underlying profit,
• 6:17
  isn't it? It is. Even on an underlying basis, profit is down.
• 6:21
  And that brings us to what I consider the most honest metric we have in these documents.
• 6:27
  EBITDA. Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization.
• 6:32
  This measures the actual operational efficiency of the machine itself.
• 6:36
  And that number is $403.6 million, down 12.3%. That is the number you should
• 6:43
  actually worry about as an investor.
• 6:44
  Ignore the net profit noise for a second. The fact that EBITDA,
• 6:48
  which is a proxy for operating cash flow, is down double digits tells us that
• 6:52
  the core business is under severe pressure.
• 6:54
  The engine is running hotter and producing less power.
• 6:57
  Which loops us right back to my $10 mobile plan at the mall,
• 7:00
  because that pressure has to be coming from somewhere.
• 7:02
  And looking at the segment breakdown in the presentation slides,
• 7:05
  it feels like Starhub is essentially two completely different companies right now.
• 7:10
  You have the old Starhub and the new Starhub. That's the perfect way to frame it.
• 7:13
  It really is a tale of two businesses. Let's look at the old business first, the consumer segment.
• 7:18
  This is what you and I use, mobile, broadband, TV.
• 7:22
  It's bleeding. I mean, there's no other way to say it based on these numbers.
• 7:26
  Mobile revenue alone is down 7.7% for the full year.
• 7:30
  That is a massive chunk of change to lose. And management is remarkably blunt
• 7:35
  in the documents about why.
• 7:37
  They explicitly blame intense competition and price erosion.
• 7:41
  They actually mention value players driving prices down to that $10 mark you saw.
• 7:46
  They even highlight offers targeting seniors that are as low as $5 or $6 a month.
• 7:51
  It's a race to the bottom. I mean, if you're Starhub and you're used to charging
• 7:54
  $30 or $40 for a postpaid plan, and suddenly an MVNO competitor offers basically
• 7:59
  the exact same data allowance for $10, what do you do?
• 8:02
  You either lose the customer entirely or you cut your price to match and just eat the margin loss.
• 8:08
  And they're eating the margin loss. They're trying to hold on to their subscriber
• 8:12
  base, but they are making significantly less money from each individual user.
• 8:18
  They also noted that roaming revenue and international direct dialing didn't
• 8:22
  bounce back the way they hoped. That part surprised me.
• 8:25
  Everyone is traveling again. The airports are packed. I saw the departure lines
• 8:28
  at Changi just last week.
• 8:30
  True. But think about how you travel now compared to five or ten years ago.
• 8:35
  Do you pay your home telco $20 a day for their roaming package?
• 8:39
  Or do you just buy a local eSum online for five bucks?
• 8:42
  Or hop on the hotel Wi-Fi and make calls over WhatsApp? Yeah,
• 8:46
  guilty as charged. I usually just grab a travel eSIM or use Wi-Fi.
• 8:50
  I haven't paid my telco for roaming in years. Exactly.
• 8:53
  Structural consumer behavior has fundamentally changed. The old cash cow of
• 8:57
  international roaming is drying up because the technology has just made it too
• 9:01
  easy to bypass the traditional telcos. And it's not just mobile that's suffering.
• 9:05
  Broadband is down slightly, 0.5%. And entertainment, which is their TV and streaming
• 9:11
  bundles, is down 7.1%. The entertainment drop is interesting.
• 9:16
  Management noted they deliberately stopped some tactical promotions.
• 9:20
  Basically, they stopped giving
• 9:21
  the TV packages away for dirt cheap just to pump up subscriber numbers.
• 9:25
  And as soon as the price went up to a normal level, subscribers left.
• 9:29
  The classic cord-cutting phenomenon. Right.
• 9:31
  People would rather just subscribe to Netflix and Disney Plus directly on their
• 9:36
  smart TVs than pay for a bundled cable box.
• 9:39
  So the old business, the consumer side, is shrinking. It's like a melting iceberg.
• 9:45
  So where is the growth supposed to come from? Why isn't the whole company collapsing?
• 9:49
  Enter the new star hub, the enterprise business. Right.
• 9:52
  Selling to companies and the government, not everyday people.
• 9:55
  Correct. The regional enterprise business is actually growing.
• 9:58
  It's up 2.9% year on year. Hold on, though.
• 10:01
  2.9%. That's pretty modest. That's barely keeping pace with inflation.
• 10:05
  I thought this was supposed to be the rocket ship that saves the company's margins.
• 10:09
  It's not a rocket ship yet. It's more like a steady, heavy-duty diesel engine.
• 10:13
  But the composition of that growth is what investors need to focus on.
• 10:17
  Look at managed services within that segment. That is up 5.3%.
• 10:22
  What does managed services actually mean in this context?
• 10:25
  Is that just, you know, IT tech support?
• 10:27
  Think of it this way. The old way of selling to a business was,
• 10:30
  here is a fiber optic cable to your office. Good luck.
• 10:34
  That is low margin, highly commoditized. Everyone sells cables.
• 10:38
  Managed services is, we will run your entire cloud infrastructure.
• 10:42
  We will manage your internal corporate network. We will handle your data center operations.
• 10:47
  Ah, so it's deeply integrated. Once you are managing their core network,
• 10:51
  it is incredibly painful and expensive for them to rip you out and fire you. Exactly.
• 10:55
  It's sticky revenue. It moves you from being a replaceable vendor to an essential partner.
• 11:00
  And then you have the cybersecurity division. That's up 4.3%.
• 11:03
  They mention higher project recognition, which basically means they are successfully
• 11:07
  finishing and billing for more complex, high-value security projects.
• 11:11
  And I see a note here in the presentation about a strong order book.
• 11:15
  That is the safety net for this side of the business.
• 11:17
  An order book means signed, legally binding contracts. They have future revenue
• 11:22
  locked in. The consumer business doesn't really have that anymore.
• 11:25
  You or I could cancel our SIM-only mobile plan tomorrow with no penalty.
• 11:29
  But a three-year enterprise cybersecurity contract.
• 11:34
  That is guaranteed money in the bank. So we have the consumer business dragging
• 11:39
  the anchor and the enterprise business trying to row the boat forward.
• 11:42
  But right now, the anchor is just really heavy. It is.
• 11:47
  The growth in enterprise isn't quite fast enough yet to fully offset the massive
• 11:51
  bleeding in the consumer segment, which is why the total company revenue is stuck at flat.
• 11:55
  Let's shift gears and talk about the actual bank account. We talked about accounting
• 11:59
  profit, but in the telco game, cash is king.
• 12:02
  And there was one number in the cash flow statement that really made my eyes water.
• 12:06
  $188 million. Spectrum payment. Yeah.
• 12:10
  In June 2025, they paid $188 million in cash for spectrum rights.
• 12:16
  That single payment pushed their free cash flow for the entire year into the red.
• 12:20
  They reported a deficit of $24.7 million.
• 12:24
  That sounds terrible. A telecom company with negative cash flow.
• 12:27
  In isolation, yes, it looks bad.
• 12:30
  But you have to view spectrum like buying land if you're a property developer.
• 12:35
  You can't build the house. You can't run the 5G network without owning the land first.
• 12:40
  This is a massive, lumpy capital expense that only happens once every decade or so.
• 12:45
  So it's the ticket to ride. You have to pay the tool to stay in the game.
• 12:48
  Exactly. And the documents make a very clear point here.
• 12:51
  If you strip that $188 million out because it is not a recurring everyday operating
• 12:56
  cost, Their underlying free cash flow would have been a surplus of $163.3 million.
• 13:03
  So the day-to-day business operations are generating plenty of cash.
• 13:06
  They just had to make a massive down payment on the future this year.
• 13:08
  Okay, that context definitely helps. But speaking of cash, let's talk about
• 13:13
  the thing our listeners who might own this stock care about the most. The dividend.
• 13:20
  The payday. This is where things get really interesting from an investor psychology standpoint.
• 13:25
  Starhub declared a final dividend of 3.0 cents.
• 13:29
  That brings the total declared dividend for the year to 6.0 cents per share.
• 13:34
  And this is the part that confuses me mathematically.
• 13:37
  We just established that earnings per share dropped significantly.
• 13:40
  The net profit was only 86.4 million. But based on the share count,
• 13:45
  paying out 6 cents a share costs them more than $100 million.
• 13:48
  Correct. The payout ratio for FY25 is 113%. They are paying out more money to
• 13:53
  shareholders than they actually earned in profit this year.
• 13:56
  How is that remotely sustainable? Are they eating their seed corn here?
• 13:59
  It is a totally valid concern, and it's the first question any analyst would ask.
• 14:04
  But this goes back to the difference between accounting profit on a spreadsheet
• 14:07
  and actual cash in the bank.
• 14:09
  Remember, the net profit was dragged down by non-cash items like depreciation
• 14:14
  and those weird provisions we talked about.
• 14:17
  But their actual cash position, it's incredibly strong. How much cash are they
• 14:21
  actually sitting on right now?
• 14:23
  $857.1 million. Whoa! Almost a billion dollars in cash. Yes.
• 14:30
  It is a massive war chest. They also noted their net debt to EBITDA ratio is
• 14:35
  at 2.0 times, which is higher than last year's 1.29, mostly because of that spectrum payment.
• 14:41
  But 2.0 is still considered a very healthy leverage level for a telco.
• 14:45
  So when management looks at the dividend decision, they are basically saying,
• 14:48
  look, we know the accounting profit looks terrible this year because of the
• 14:51
  fine and the weird year-on-year comparisons, but we have nearly a billion dollars sitting in the bank.
• 14:57
  We can afford to pay you the six cents to keep you happy while we finish fixing
• 15:00
  the underlying business.
• 15:02
  So they are actively dipping into the savings account to smooth things over
• 15:06
  for the investors. It's a confidence signal. Exactly.
• 15:09
  They are aggressively defending the stock price.
• 15:11
  Telcos are traditionally bought for their yield. If they cut the dividend to
• 15:15
  match the lower profit, the stock would likely tank.
• 15:18
  They are using the cash pile to build a bridge over this rough patch.
• 15:22
  But that bridge can't last forever.
• 15:24
  Which brings us to the future outlook. What is the actual plan to fix the operational profit problem?
• 15:31
  Because I noticed a very distinct change in their language in the presentation slides.
• 15:35
  For years, all we heard was dare plus invest, build, transform.
• 15:40
  Now, the slides prominently feature the word harvest. That is the critical strategic pivot for 2026.
• 15:47
  Harvest is corporate speak for we are done spending massive amounts of money
• 15:50
  on new toys and platforms.
• 15:52
  Now we need to squeeze money out of them. It implies reaping the rewards of all that investment.
• 15:56
  But reading the fine print in the strategy section, Harvest mostly seems to
• 16:00
  be a polite code word for aggressive cost cutting.
• 16:03
  You hit the nail on the head. They've largely finished building the new cloud
• 16:07
  networks and the new IT back-end platforms.
• 16:10
  Now, they want to turn off the expensive old ones. They explicitly call it legacy decommissioning.
• 16:16
  It's like moving into a state-of-the-art new smart home, but realizing you're
• 16:19
  still paying the electric and water bills on your old apartment.
• 16:22
  You have to finally cut the cord on the old infrastructure to actually realize the savings.
• 16:28
  And management has quantified this. They have identified approximately $60 million
• 16:32
  in cost savings that they expect to realize between financial year 2026 and 2028.
• 16:39
  They are going to shut down legacy servers, optimize the physical network,
• 16:43
  and run a much leaner ship.
• 16:45
  $60 million is a serious number. If they can drop the majority of that straight
• 16:49
  to the bottom line over the next couple of years, that fixes a lot of their
• 16:53
  margin problems. If they can.
• 16:55
  Executing deep cost cuts without degrading network quality or customer service
• 16:59
  is always vastly harder in reality than it looks on a PowerPoint slide.
• 17:03
  And this is where the rubber really meets the road for investors.
• 17:06
  Because despite this entire harvest plan, despite the promise of $60 million
• 17:10
  in savings, the actual financial guidance for next year for FY2026 is essentially a bucket of ice water.
• 17:17
  It's probably the most sobering part of the entire document stack.
• 17:21
  They are forecasting EBITDA to be only 75% to 80% of FY2025 levels.
• 17:27
  Let that sink in for a second. We just talked about how EBITDA was already down
• 17:32
  12% this year and management is flat out telling us it is going to drop another
• 17:36
  20 to 25% next year. I don't get it.
• 17:39
  If they are officially in harvest mode and cutting 60 million in costs,
• 17:44
  shouldn't operational profits start going up?
• 17:47
  Why is the guidance pointing so sharply down? This seems entirely contradictory.
• 17:51
  Because the revenue erosion in the consumer business, that brutal price war,
• 17:55
  is happening faster than they can cut the costs.
• 17:58
  Ouch. So the retail prices are falling faster than they can turn off the old
• 18:02
  servers in the basement.
• 18:03
  That certainly seems to be the implication. And there is a very specific phrase
• 18:07
  in the guidance notes that explains their mindset.
• 18:09
  They state that the lower EBITDA guidance is because they decided to retain
• 18:14
  commercial flexibility.
• 18:15
  Retain commercial flexibility. That sounds incredibly polite.
• 18:18
  Translated. Translated.
• 18:19
  It means we're going to fight. It means they recognize they might need to lower
• 18:24
  their own prices even further to match the $10 plans.
• 18:28
  They might need to double their marketing budget. They might need to heavily
• 18:31
  subsidize new phones again.
• 18:33
  They are reserving the right to spend whatever operational cash is necessary
• 18:37
  to defend their market share from the budget competitors.
• 18:40
  So they are fully engaging in the price war. They aren't just going to sit back
• 18:45
  and let the MVNOs steal all their customers.
• 18:47
  They can't. If they do, they lose the critical mass of the subscriber base entirely,
• 18:52
  and then the network becomes financially unviable.
• 18:55
  But fighting a price war is incredibly expensive. That is exactly why the EBITDA guidance is so low.
• 19:02
  They are consciously sacrificing short-term profit margins to survive the battle for market share.
• 19:08
  And yet, despite predicting that their core earnings are going to tank another 20% next year.
• 19:13
  They made a promise about the dividend again, didn't they? They did.
• 19:16
  Right there in the FY2026 guidance, they stated their target to distribute at
• 19:21
  least 6.0 cents per share next year.
• 19:24
  Or their formal dividend policy of 80% of net profit, whichever is higher.
• 19:29
  That is exceptionally bold.
• 19:31
  They are essentially telling the market, hey, next year is going to be absolutely
• 19:35
  brutal for our day-to-day operations.
• 19:38
  Profits are going to drop significantly again. But don't worry,
• 19:41
  your six-cent check is safe. It is a massive vote of confidence in their balance sheet.
• 19:45
  They are effectively saying, we have enough cash in that $850 million pile to weather this storm.
• 19:52
  Stick with us. It feels like a high wire act, honestly. They are walking across a canyon.
• 19:56
  On one side, you have the rapidly declining, highly competitive legacy consumer business.
• 20:02
  On the other side, you have this efficient, high-tech, enterprise-focused future
• 20:06
  they're trying to build.
• 20:07
  And the steady dividend is the balancing pole they're using to keep the investors
• 20:12
  from panicking while they cross.
• 20:14
  And the cash pile is the safety net down below. But you're right.
• 20:18
  They have to make it to the other side before the net runs out.
• 20:20
  So let's wrap this up and distill it for you, the listener.
• 20:23
  Starhub is clearly a company in a very messy transition. Absolutely.
• 20:29
  The consumer business mobile broadband TV is under siege.
• 20:33
  The price war is very real and it is visibly hurting the top and bottom lines.
• 20:39
  The enterprise business is the lifeboat. It's growing, it has sticky revenue,
• 20:43
  but it is still ramping up and isn't quite big enough to carry the whole company yet.
• 20:48
  They have finished the heavy lifting of building their new tech platforms.
• 20:51
  Now they need to relentlessly execute on cutting costs the harvest strategy
• 20:55
  to try and stabilize those shrinking margins.
• 20:58
  And while all this operational chaos is happening, management is acting like
• 21:01
  a steady bank for their shareholders, paying out a high yield backed by a massive
• 21:05
  cash reserve to keep everyone calm.
• 21:08
  It's a fascinating dynamic. You rarely see a company with shrinking operational
• 21:12
  profits projecting further declines while simultaneously paying out such a confident dividend.
• 21:16
  It is a testament to their conservative balance sheet management in the past.
• 21:20
  They saved a lot of cash for a rainy day. Well, it is pouring rain in the telecom sector right now.
• 21:25
  So here is a final provocative thought for you to chew on.
• 21:30
  Management is betting the farm on this harvest phase. They are promising you
• 21:34
  six cents a share next year.
• 21:36
  Even though they openly admit their actual operations will likely make significantly
• 21:40
  less money than that. It's the ultimate trust me trade.
• 21:44
  Exactly. So the real question you have to ask yourself is this.
• 21:47
  Are they cutting costs fast enough to outrun the severe price deflation in the mobile market?
• 21:52
  Because if that enterprise turnaround takes just one or two years longer than
• 21:56
  management expects, that $800 million cash pile isn't infinite.
• 22:00
  At what point does that generous dividend stop being a reward for your loyalty
• 22:04
  and start becoming a financial liability that threatens the company's ability to invest and compete?
• 22:09
  That is the ultimate risk every investor needs to weigh when looking at these
• 22:13
  numbers. Is the immediate yield worth the long-term structural erosion?
• 22:17
  Thanks for joining us on this deep dive. It is always fascinating to see what
• 22:21
  is actually happening behind the scenes of our monthly phone bills. Indeed.
• 22:24
  It puts that $10 mall kiosk in a whole new light.
• 22:28
  Until next time. This content is intended to serve strictly and only as an informational,
• 22:33
  independent, objective summary of recent events and should in no way be interpreted,
• 22:38
  construed, or relied upon by any party as inside information or financial advice.
• 22:44
  Thank you.