Latest / Foul Territory / MLBPA Interim Executive Director Bruce Meyer joins FT: Labor battle update, Jim Bowden’s pointed column

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MLBPA Interim Executive Director Bruce Meyer joins FT: Labor battle update, Jim Bowden’s pointed column · Foul Territory

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: He's the executive director leading the players association bruce meyer
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: joining us here on foul territory bruce great to have
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: you back on how's everything going and what's new if
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: you know what i mean anything new going.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: On thanks guys good to be back um well i
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: can think a couple of things that are new i
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: mean one since we last talked um an owner who
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: was constantly complaining that he couldn't make money and and
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: uh And the business was so bad, sold this team
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: for $ 4 billion at least, which is a record. A
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: team that he bought for $ 183 million, sold for $ 4 billion.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Seems like a pretty good return. So that's something new.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: In terms of bargaining, we continue to meet. We meet
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: almost every week. But on the core economic stuff, we're
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: worlds apart. Because as you know, the league has proposed
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: obviously a salary cap system, but, but not just a
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: salary cap system, really, really one that, that is, you know,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: worse than anything that's out there. And they've also, you know,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: made proposals in terms of amateur entry, which, which are
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: really terrible for players. So, you know, we, I can't
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: say we made any progress in the, in the economic areas.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, I'm seeing a lot of sort
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: of what I'll say called league spinning or, or mischaracterization
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: of a lot of the key things, including, you know,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: something I saw a couple of days ago from somebody
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: who actually, I believe, appears on this show and just
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: reflects a lot of misunderstanding about what the league is
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: actually offering. So, you know, those are the, and well,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: and of course, you know, we're coming to the end
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of another great season, lots of teams in the playoff hunt.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And of course, once again, the Milwaukee Brewers, the smallest
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: team by market size under our CBA, once again, have
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: the best record in the National League. Last year, of course,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: they had the best record in baseball. Tampa has the
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: best record in the American League. And yet, you know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: we've been hearing for years about how these small market
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: teams literally have no hope and can't compete. So that's
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: where we are sitting here today. All right.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: The article that you're referring to is Jim Bowden's article that,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: you know, Jim comes on, does quite a bit, even
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: as a show on here. And my question to you
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: after reading that article is, Do you agree with the facts,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: but maybe not his take on the facts? How do
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: you feel about the things that he brought up in
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: his article?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: His facts are completely wrong, and that really permeates the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: whole article. Had he reached out to us in any
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: way or talked to us, I would have been happy
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: to explain to him, but One of the central premises
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: in that article is that the league's offer would pay
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the players more money, not just more money, but he
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: says significantly more money. And, you know, that statement is
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: repeated numerous times. In fact, he says, how could you
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: not agree to, you know, 50% of the revenues and
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: guaranteed and, you know, it's more money. And it's just wrong.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: They're not offering more money. They're offering less money. Putting
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: aside all the things about a salary cap, all the
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: reasons why we've always been against it, the fact that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: you don't really have guaranteed contracts anymore with escrow, the
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: fact that it gets worse over time and all the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: cap sports have a limits player freedom, takes away fundamental rights.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Putting all of that aside, it is simply not the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: case that their proposal in any way results in players
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: making more money, any players. So, you know, they say,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and Jim says in his article, you know, well, you know,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: you get 50%. That's a significant increase.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: No.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've said this before. Under their proposal, if
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you use their definitions of what counts towards revenues and
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: what counts against player share, we already get over 55%.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And that's conservative. So, you know, to hear that, like, well,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: you know, this is like a no-brainer, right? They're offering
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: you 50%. yeah, we already get at least 55. So
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: not a good deal just on that, on that simple from,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: from that simple perspective. Right. And so that's like the,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the biggest kind of mischaracterization, you know, false that I,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: that I see there. And again, it kind of permeates
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: everything else. I mean, we did a calculation that if their,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: their system were in place, well, if their system were
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: in place for this year, players would have made $ 600
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: million less than they are making this year. And if
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: their system were in place since 2012, just the major
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: leaguers in our calculation would have made $ 7 billion less.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And that's before you even get to what they're doing,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: gutting the amateurs and the amateur signing bonuses, both the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: international and the domestic entry system. Another thing that's kind
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of related is I saw a statement in in that article.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And I've heard other people say, well, you know, this
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: is good for 90% of the players. 90% of players
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: will make more money. That's actually, you know, what's in
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that article. It is totally made up. I have no
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: idea where that comes from. It's not true in any sense. Again,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: players as a whole would be making hundreds of millions
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: a year or less under their proposal. And that's not just,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you know, the star's In the cap sports, what you see,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: and all you need to do is Google it, but
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I actually talked to people in those other sports and
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I worked in those other sports. You will see players
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: basically saying correctly that the middle class gets crushed worse
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: than anybody in those systems. And I can go into
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: why that is, but in any event, it's just a
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: fallacy that under their proposal, even putting aside all the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: other bad things that flow from it, that somehow players
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: would be making more money. It's just not true.
• 6:06
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• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Bruce, can I ask you this? How is there a difference?
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Aren't numbers numbers? How are their numbers different than what
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: your numbers say? Can you explain this to fans and me?
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Because I don't understand. You think like, hey, the statement
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: comes out that Major League Baseball made $ 4 billion.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: I'm throwing random numbers out there last year. And you
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: guys say, no, that's not true. They actually made $ 4. 5.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: And then the owners say, no, we actually made $ 3. 2.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: How are the numbers different? Can you explain that? Because
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: that's one thing that confuses me.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's really a dispute about the numbers.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I think the league, when they make statements about the numbers,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: usually it's very carefully worded. You know, it's misleading. But
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: when you come down to the numbers, I agree, the
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: numbers are the numbers. I actually don't think they even
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: really dispute the numbers. You know, there are a couple
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: of main issues at play. One is, and I've said
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: this before, you know, people say, well, what's the share?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: What's the share? There's no universally accepted, you know, principle.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Here's what share means. Share literally means whatever the parties
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: agree it means. Share is totally a defined term that's
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: negotiated in that kind of system. So, you know, you
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: have to look at what's included, what kind of revenues
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: are included, and also what counts against player share. Those
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: are the two main things, right? And so if you
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: do it the way the league does it in their proposal, again,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: we already get, we believe, conservatively over 55%. So when
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: they say we'll give you 50, you know, it sounds fair,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: but it's actually a reduction. And the key components that
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: go into that that may not be obvious, one is
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: the amateur signing bonuses. We negotiate for the 40-man rosters
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and we negotiate for the entrance. So guys who come in,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: get drafted, sign amateur signing bonuses. Those signing bonuses are
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: significantly more than they are in the other sports. The
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: league's proposal would count all the amateur signing bonuses against
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: player share under their salary cap. So that means hundreds
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: of millions of dollars a year under the league's proposal
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: would get deducted from major league salary as part of
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: their cap proposal. So sometimes they leave that part out
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: or they don't look at that. If you look at
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the players that we're negotiating for as a whole, again,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: they already get way, way more than what the league's proposing.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And another thing that comes into it, AJ, is expenses, right?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So their proposal would allow them to, before they share
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: a dollar with players, So before, you know, they say, oh,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: we'll share with you 50 percent. Under their proposal, they
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: take out billions of dollars in expenses off the top.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: In their proposal, the expenses they can deduct are way
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: more than in the other sports. In some cases, they're
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: proposed that certain categories, they can deduct unlimited expenses. So
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: anytime they lose money on a business venture, for example,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: they would deduct it from player. Or if they build
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: a stadium or refurbish a stadium, their proposal, they would
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: deduct that. So it's not really 50% that they're offering.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: It's 50% of a certain revenue pool, which excludes a
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: lot of things. I mean, it doesn't include, you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: expansion fees that they're going to make billions of dollars off.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: It doesn't include, obviously, the growth in their franchises. It
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't include a lot of things, right? It doesn't include
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: all the money around the ballparks, like the battery and
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So they take out a lot of the revenues.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Then they deduct off the top, again, billions of dollars
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: in expenses. And then they share that, and that's actually
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: less than what now. And then the other issue is,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: what do you count against player share? So it's a deduction.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: In their proposal, they count everything under the sun. Every
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: form of benefit will come out of some player's salaries.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Any increase in benefits will come out of some other
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: player's salaries. Intangible benefits, I think in their proposal, they had,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: if they provide a translator for a player, that comes
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: out of player salaries under their proposal. It's a zero-sum game.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Every dollar that goes to a player in any fashion
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: just comes out of another player's pocket. So I actually
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: don't think there's really disagreement on the numbers. I think
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: it's just the way they try to characterize it that
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: kind of obscures the key issues and what's actually going on.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Fans say there's disparity or there's not parity. And we've
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: seen it in the season that there is parity. There's
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: small markets where the first two to clinch. What's the
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: union's proposal to address the disparity in the amount of
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: payroll that each team can spend? Because that feels like
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: a fan thing is a core issue that fans want addressed.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've made a number of proposals. I mean,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: in our view, Again, the problem is not teams spending
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: money to try and make their team better. And to
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: the extent there are disparities in payroll, it's just a
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: couple of nuances there. I mean, number one, the league includes,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: to make that disparity look bigger, the league includes things
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: that actually go to the small market team. So when
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a team goes over the luxury tax and they pay penalties,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: half that money goes directly to the small market teams.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: It's a form of revenue sharing. Yet the league actually
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: includes that as part of the disparity to try and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: make the disparity look bigger, even though their money literally
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: goes directly to reduce the disparity to the team. So
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not sure if that's clear. And
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: then the other thing is, you know, if a team,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: you know, let's call them the Mitzmer-Meiritz owner decides not
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: to spend money to make the team better. Well, guess what?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: That increases payroll disparities. But that's because, in part, because
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: of a decision the owner made. It has nothing to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: do with the Dodgers or the Phillies, you know, or
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: any other team choosing to spend. So, you know, from
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: our standpoint, the issue is and has always been not
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: teams that are spending too much or trying too hard
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: to compete. It's the teams that can afford to and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: are not spending as much as they can to try
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and compete. And all these teams can afford to do it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I've said this before. You know, we get financial information.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: We're not allowed to disclose it to you. or the media,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: or frankly, the fans. But you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And teams that say, oh, we can't compete with the Dodgers. Well,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: they're not even trying. They're not even trying, right? And again,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: we're seeing, look at the Milwaukee Brewers. There's no reason
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: why by any team, any small market team can't do
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: what the Brewers have done. And spending a lot of
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: money doesn't guarantee success. We know that in baseball. I'm
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: sure I've said this before and There are probably people
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: who are sick of hearing it, but I grew up
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: a Mets fan and they're obviously the biggest market in
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: baseball and they've had one of the biggest payrolls ever
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: in the last few years and they haven't won a
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: World Series in 40 years. But in terms of, let
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: me just quickly, you asked what have we proposed or
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: what do we think about the disparities? Disparities in payrolls
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: is not the issue. To the extent there's a disparity
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: in revenues, Um, you know, that, that, that has some effect,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: but again, it's not insurmountable. We see teams like the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Brewers and Tampa and even Cleveland has like, excuse me,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like the seventh best record in baseball over the last
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: 10 years or something. Um, but so what we've actually
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: proposed is would allow them to share more revenues. So
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: right now under the system as it exists right now,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: the small market teams already get, um, I think it's
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: approaching a billion dollars in subsidies. They already get through
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: revenue sharing, through luxury tax proceeds, through central revenues, and
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: they have other advantages in the current system in international
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: entry and in amateur entry. We've proposed to actually allow
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: them to share even more revenues. What we've proposed would
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: allow there to be more sharing of the local media.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: but allow teams to keep more of the local non-media,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: which is putting fans in the stands, building a good team.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: We've also proposed things that would reward and incentivize teams
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that actually do compete, including, I'm talking about small markets,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: including direct cash payments and draft picks. So we've made
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: proposals that in our view would have a system that
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: actually rewards and incentivizes teams that are trying to win,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: not as currently happens, rewarding teams who collect, you know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: this kind of corporate welfare and they just put it
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: in their pockets in the form of owner profits.
• 16:11
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• 17:12
  Speaker 4: Before I ask my next question, I just want to know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: were you one of the ones that gave Pete a
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: standing ovation after he hit his home run last night
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: as a Mets fan?
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So, busted. Busted. Uh, I, I, I go to, I
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: go to a lot of ballparks. Well, I'm sorry. I wasn't,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I wasn't at the last night. I was at, I
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: was at the game before where I did, I did
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: give him a standing ovation. I wasn't last night. Um, I,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I go to ballparks usually to go to the clubhouses
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: and see players. I don't usually, uh, stay for the games,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: but I, I did go for Pete's return and I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: did stay, uh, with a friend of mine and, It
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: was electrifying. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. Obviously,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the Mets could have afforded to keep Pete, and I
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: believe should have, both as a now neutral former Mets
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: fan and also in my current job. And I think
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the fans have enormous appreciation for him and what he
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: did and wish he were still on the team, both
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: as a player and as a leader and a teammate.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So it really was remarkable. I was there the first night.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I was watching on TV. last night, and again, I
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: no longer have a rooting interest, but I'm not sure
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I've ever seen anything quite like it. Okay, that's fair,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: that's fair.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna ask you a question, and I kind of
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: brought this up on our production meeting, and I could
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: be way off on this. So one of my biggest
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: things is, when people ask me about this, obviously I'm
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: a player, I look at it from the player side,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: that I tell people this is not a player fight
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: versus owner fight, it is, but it's an owner versus
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: owner fight, and you kind of went into that with
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: the revenue sharing, right? So what if you just went
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: to them or the owners went to each other and said,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: all right, I'm going to use, again, these are random numbers.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: You can tell me I'm crazy and this doesn't make
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: any sense. Let's say $ 30 billion was made.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: By each team and the whole league.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Each team then gets a billion dollars. Every team gets
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: the equal amount.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Then they go to the players association. They say, Bruce,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: we're going to spend 200 minimum on players.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: That means that still is an 800 million each. And
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: then there's no cap. You guys can spend as much.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Let's see who really cares about the money. And let's
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: see who really cares about the winning. Would that not work?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I don't like to kind of speculate
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: on what goes through their heads or their dynamics. They
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: want a cap system because it'll increase their profits and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: they think it'll increase their franchise. That's it. That's why
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: they want it. They don't want it because they think
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: it's good for the fans. They don't want it, you know,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: for any other reason. And so, you know, they can
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: share all their revenues They need our agreement to that
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: because that's subject to bargaining. And as I said, we
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: are more willing than we've ever been to allow them
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to expand that. But the condition from our standpoint is
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: if we're going to give the small market teams more
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: of that money, they already get enormous amounts of money.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We want assurances that they're going to have to spend
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: it for the benefit, not just of players, but of
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the fans and the game. We don't want them to
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: be able to basically take the money and put it
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: in the owner's pocket in the form of profits. We
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: want to make sure the purpose of revenue sharing is
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: in fact to allow those teams to have more resources
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to compete. And if they're not doing that, then in
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: our view, it's not a good thing. So look, I
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: think from their standpoint, and again, I hesitate to speak
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: for the owners, if they're going to certain teams and saying, well,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you know, we're going to have a floor that's going
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: to make you spend more money. Those teams are probably saying, well,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. Why do I want
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to spend more money? And I think they're probably saying, well,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: it's okay because you're going to get it from another team.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: You know, they're reducing the overall amount of money players get,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and then they're just moving the money around, right? So,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you know, their per team cap and floor that they propose, which,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I always say that is not the most
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: important thing. Because at the end of the day, that
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: floor is not guaranteed for players because of revenues in
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: escrow in the NBA the last two years. Players have
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: had to give back almost a billion dollars in their
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: supposedly guaranteed salaries. I think under what they propose for
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a floor and a cap, I think if you look
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: at trade rumors, which we think is pretty reliable, they
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: have nine teams above would have to cut 62 million
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: and 12 below would have to increase 528 million. So
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: right off the bat, you see players lose money, right?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: It's not a good deal. And then that's not even
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: guaranteed because you may have to give it back because
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: of escrow. But I think, long-winded answer to your question,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I think what's going on over there is they don't
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: want to pay players more money. They want to pay
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: them less and then they want to freeze it. So
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I think their proposal is essentially moving money around, not
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: so much adding new money for the player side. So
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: for that reason, I think a salary cap would probably
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: benefit all the owners financially. They all think it's going
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to make their franchise values go up. Why is that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the case? Why would a salary cap make their franchise
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: values go up? Because it increases their profits and holds
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: down their labor costs. That's why. So they're making record
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: increases in their franchise values, but it's apparently not good enough.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I think if enough of the owners think that they're
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: going to benefit in that way, then they probably calculate
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: that it's worth it to them. But again, I don't
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: want to speculate too much.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Bruce, question for you about public sentiment. How do you
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: feel like fans are feeling? And I know you can't
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: just go off a few comments on any particular one post.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily represent the majority. But how do you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: think fans are being educated about this process? You spoke,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: for example, about how you're not going to speak for owners.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Of course not. Well, owners, it sounds like, aren't really
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: allowed to speak about this topic. Jeff Passman from ESPN
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: just put out how he sent a request to 30 owners.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: None of them would speak. It sounds like they're not
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: allowed to speak. So it all has to come to
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the league.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: We have the.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Most downloaded podcast network in baseball. The league won't talk
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: to us about this. So obviously we appreciate when you
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: come on. We send the invite to both sides all
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the time. So what's your take on public sentiment? Because
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it does appear that there is a subset of fans
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that are just like, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. this will
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: solve world peace if we're able to completely rip up
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the CBA and start again. But for me, when I'm
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: trying to get educated, I can't even hear what the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: other side has to say.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, look, you know, I, I've seen,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: there was at least one poll that was in the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: athletic of fans where they asked, I don't remember the
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: exact question. I have it here in my messy office somewhere,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: but they asked fans like, you know, who do you
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: think a salary cap would help your team? And I,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: the majority said, said no. Um, I don't remember if
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: it was, would help your team win the playoffs or
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: make the playoffs to win the championship. They asked fans,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: you know, who do you mostly blame for like the
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: lack of competition? And it was, as I recall, you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: majority were blaming the owner. So I've seen data on
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: both sides on that. Look, my, my view, you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: nothing's more important than fans, fans, fans pay for everything, right?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: The success of the industry and it is incredibly successful
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and continues to be incredibly successful is, based on the fans,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I am a fan. I grew up
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: a fan. Um, so, you know, and, and players feel
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: the same way. I mean, if it players, you know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: value fans and players themselves, nobody, you know, as, as, uh,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: players themselves have grown up as, as fans. And, and, um,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: so look, I, I know there, there are always fans
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: and certainly in any, uh, in any labor dispute. And
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: certainly if there's a work stoppage, um, or lockout, you know, the,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the fans are, are going to feel a certain way
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: about that. I understand that I was a fan. in
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: 81 and 94. I think, you know, I think there
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: are fans who understand where we're coming from. I think
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: there are fans who, you know, understand our message. You know,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: we try and get our message out just like the
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: league does. Of course, we don't own our own TV
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: network like the league does. So we can't run TV
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: commercials or at least it'll be really expensive. You know,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: so I think there are fans that understand that, You know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: this is about whether the billionaires make more money or
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the players who actually produce the value, who the fans
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: are actually going to watch, whether they're going to be
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: allowed to pursue, you know, their fair value. And then
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: there are fans who, excuse me, as you say, you know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: they believe or they've heard for decades from their owner
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: or elsewhere that, you know, hey, this is going to
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: somehow help their team. And I respect, you know, everybody's view.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I would say a couple of things specifically. There's often
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: a perception that a salary cap is somehow going to
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: lead to owners passing along their cost savings in the
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: form of lower ticket prices. Well, again, the league is
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: saying it's going to cost them more money to pay players.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then I don't know why
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: you'd expect lower ticket prices. But in any event, that's
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: not true. They're going to save money. I just don't
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: think owners operate that way. I mean, when teams cut
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: payroll You don't see them slashing ticket prices. They charge
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: as much as they think they're going to be able
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: to get. So I think a lot of fans believe
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: that that will or could have an effect. Owners, they're capitalists. Again,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they're billionaires. They set prices where they think they're going
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: to maximize their revenues. Another thing I've heard a lot
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: recently is the league talking about blackouts. Blackouts are terrible.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: If we had a salary cap, somehow we wouldn't have blackouts. Well,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Nobody likes blackouts, but blackouts is 100% something the league
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: has agreed to with its network partners. Players and the
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Players Association have nothing to do with that. They could
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: end blackouts whenever they want. And again, we've proposed to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: allow them to share more revenues, including media revenues, which
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: might facilitate that. But, you know, for them to kind of,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: you know, either blame it on us somehow, the players,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: or suggest that like, Hey, you know, if you give
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: us a set hour cap, we're going to get rid
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: of these blackouts. I mean, it's really transparent, you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: trying to hold that over the heads of the fans.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: It has nothing, nothing to do with it.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Eric Kratz, you're smart. We're a catcher in major league
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: baseball for a long time. You need to be smart
• 27:36
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• 27:52
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• 27:55
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• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Bruce, my last question for you is I was watching
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: a game before the All-Star break and they were running
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: basically like a political type of ad explaining. I'm sure
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: you've seen explaining how the salary cap is needed and
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: it's unfair. I let people, you know, look at it
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: and download and see if they believe it or not.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: When those types of ads are run in between games
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: played by the players, the entertainers in this situation, why
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: do the players continue to go on media sanction types
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: of networks that give players no compensation other than their salary,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: no obligation? Why is that? Is that the players extending
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: an olive branch to the owners and being like, hey,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: we want to grow this game together, even though they're running...
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: essentially propaganda in between the games they're playing in?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so good question. I mean, first of all, you know,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: in terms of like the TV ads, I mean, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: continue to find it ironic. The league says, hey, you know,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: we're just doing this because what the fans want, but
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: they have to spend millions and millions of dollars running,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: as you say, political style ad campaigns to convince the
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: fans to want this thing that according to them the
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: fans already want so i just i just think that's
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: interesting um look it's a reality um you know that
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that mlb owns various media channels i mean they have
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: mlb.com and they have um MLB network and people who
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: work for those outlets get checks from MLB. It doesn't
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: mean I don't have respect for some of the people
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: who go through those channels, but it's just a reality.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's literally they're owned by MLB. There are
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: other outlets that may not be directly owned by MLB,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: but are major business partners of MLB. We try and
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: educate players about that. I think most players realize it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I think there are some players who may not. I
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: think there are some players who, when a guy who
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: they've seen a lot sticks a microphone in their face
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and is friendly, I'm not sure all players make the connection. Like, hey,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: this guy actually works for the other side in some capacity.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Having said that, we don't silence players. We don't tell
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: players who to talk to. Um, we, we think players voices,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: you know, being heard is, is a good thing. And, um,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: you know, again, we, we try and make sure players
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: understand kind of the, the landscape, but, but, but we don't,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: we don't ever, you know, muffle players or tell them,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: you know, don't talk to this outlet or don't talk
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to this guy. They're, they're free to make that choice themselves.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: And again, hopefully they're doing it with, you know, uh,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: an understanding of exactly, you know, what may be going on.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, Well, Bruce, this was really helpful as always.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Hopefully it continues. We love getting the check-ins here and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I know it'll heat up a lot more after we
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: have a fun October. So thanks for stopping by again.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Good to talk to you.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Let's all hope for an exciting playoffs and series, which
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll have again. So thanks guys. Appreciate the opportunity.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Bruce.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Talk soon.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: All right, recap for a couple minutes before the other
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: side comes back from break. I thought the last part
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: of the conversation, I mean, all of it was interesting, right?
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: So first off, JB Bowden, who makes frequent appearances for us,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: he's got his own show too, GM Territory. See, to me,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that's the good stuff, AJ. Jim puts out an article,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Bruce comes out and disputes many of the facts in there.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Let's talk it out.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: The more people that are transparent about this, I think
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: it's helpful for fans, for broadcasters, for anybody to understand
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: where people stand. There's going to be opinions thrown out there.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: That's one thing. But like Bruce said, the numbers are
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: not disputable. So when a number goes out there and says, hey,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the players will make more under this proposal and we're
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: going to lower ticket prices. And to me, it starts
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: to get into the– class president in fifth grade saying
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: free lunch, everyone gets A's and let's keep going down
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the line.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: It's kind of, kind of something like that, Scott. Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: When he said they don't, they don't tell people who
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: they're allowed to talk to and who they're not allowed
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: to talk to. I like that answer because listen, on
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: this show, we cover both sides. We we'd love to
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: have the commissioner on. We've tried to get the commissioner
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: to come on here. We've tried to get his people
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: to come on here. They won't. And it's not like
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: anybody would ever tell certain entity not to come on
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: the show. It's weird how certain entities would never be allowed.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: You never be told anything like that. So that would
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: never happen. But yeah, it's just, it's great. Listen, we
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: want to hear both sides. Jim Bowden, we have come on.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: He gives his side. And then Bruce Byron wants to
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: rebut that. And here he comes and he gives his side.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: So I hope the fans appreciate that we are. Listen,
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: are we player led? Of course, we're player led. Are
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: we going to lean towards the players? Of course. But
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: I can also sit here and have it. listen to
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: both sides, tell their side of it and see both
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: points from both sides. And that's what the show is
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: all about. Yeah.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And also the network has a number of different names
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and backgrounds and opinions. That's the whole point here. Like
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I love that we bring Jim on and he is
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: very pro cap and he explains where he's coming from.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And he worked in front offices like the Reds under
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Marge Schott. Google that one. Have fun with that. Like
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: it's good to hear his perspective. No, we didn't plan this.
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  Speaker 1: hanging out, don't sweat the heat this summer or the
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: cool of the fall. Feel as effortlessly cool as you
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: look with Mack Welding. Go to MackWelding.com. Get 20% off
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: your first order of $ 125 or more with promo code FOUL.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N.com, code F-O-U-L. I just want to put my
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: disclaimer out. I kind of did it during the interview,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: but I want to do it again in case some
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: of the audience was in break. Invite is always out
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: there to Commissioner Manfred or anybody else. in his little
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: army to join us wholeheartedly asking. We have sent the requests.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I used to work there. It'd be awesome if someone
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: could come on and give us some transparency. I could
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: literally copy paste the same exact questions to you. If
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: you want to do a pre-interview.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I guess if we have to do that, but again,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: same questions, you can literally watch this interview back. I
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: will be asked the same things. So putting that out there,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear from somebody.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: I already did a pre-interview once.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: How'd that go?
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: Well, Rob never didn't come on. So you tell me
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: how it went.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I guess he didn't like your pre-interview.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: The pre-interview was, sure, I'll come on. And then, yeah,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: so anyways. But, yeah, we'd love for him to come on.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: I'd absolutely love for him or one of his army
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: to come on.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Please, come on.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: Let's talk. Let's have a real talk conversation.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's a misconception. Like, we're not trying
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: to have a battle. We literally just bring guests on
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and ask them questions. I mean, that's it. That's the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: whole game, period.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I love baseball. I really, really like baseball. I want
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: to see baseball grow. Do I have friends that have
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: reached out to me about Jim Bowden being on and
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: being pro salary cap that are currently playing?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: They've reached out and asked. And I'm like, come on
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: and dispute it. I want what is best for the game.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: And my opinions, I'll sprinkle in, but there's much more
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: smart people, smarter people that know what's going on. This
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: is an open forum to discuss this stuff so that
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: ultimately what fans want is better baseball, more baseball, and
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: the best baseball possible.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's what's going to happen. We're going to do
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: that every day, all offseason long, until the sport comes back.