Latest / The SEANC View / Can State Government Compete? Inside NC's HR with Staci Meyer

Transcript

Can State Government Compete? Inside NC's HR with Staci Meyer · The SEANC View

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host, Jonathan Owens, communications director here at Scenic,
• 0:06
  alongside artists Watkins, Suzanne Beasley, and Sammy Klein.
• 0:10
  We're excited to have a big show this week, so let's get right into it.
• 0:24
  We said about eight episodes ago we were going to change the theme song. We need to get on that.
• 0:29
  So, like I said, we do have an exciting week this week.
• 0:33
  Stacey Meyer, the director of the Office of State Human Resources, is coming in.
• 0:38
  She's going to talk to us a little bit about everything going on with state employment.
• 0:42
  But before we do that, we'll talk a little bit about what's going on in North Carolina.
• 0:46
  Not a whole lot going on with the budget, though, as usual. Right, Suzanne? Nothing.
• 0:51
  Nothing new to report? No, nothing new to report. But if you guys will remember
• 0:55
  when they were here for their few days of session last month,
• 0:59
  that Speaker Hall actually announced on the House floor that he didn't anticipate
• 1:02
  any more votes this year.
• 1:04
  So the Senate had already packed up and left town.
• 1:07
  They'll still have to come back for their two sessions that they've already
• 1:10
  got set up for November and December. But we don't anticipate any business,
• 1:14
  which means we don't anticipate a budget.
• 1:16
  We had some questions about that already this week, again, on Facebook.
• 1:20
  And I saw that you responded.
• 1:22
  Yeah. People still want to know, obviously, where the raises are,
• 1:26
  right? Would be too, yeah.
• 1:28
  But we did have one meeting last week. The SCOGE committee came in, right?
• 1:35
  The House Select Committee on Government Efficiency met last week,
• 1:39
  and they heard from DOT and Paul Tine, the new DMV.
• 1:44
  Commissioner. It was a lot of information. Okay. Anything come out of it?
• 1:48
  So, yeah, there was something interesting.
• 1:50
  Obviously, privatization and contractors come up anytime we're talking DOT and DMV.
• 1:56
  And so a question was asked in committee if some projects, some DOT projects,
• 2:01
  had been handled by a contractor, and is that why it was taking so long?
• 2:06
  Well, Chairman Kidwell actually said, no, that's not the reason why.
• 2:11
  Private industry can always do it better than state government.
• 2:15
  Better or more efficiently? Yeah.
• 2:17
  And I'm paraphrasing right there, too. But, you know. He indicated private. Yeah, it was better.
• 2:22
  Yeah. That's interesting to me because I saw an article from the WRAL News that
• 2:27
  was talking about the state fair.
• 2:29
  If you guys noticed this year, there's always a lot of traffic around the state
• 2:34
  fair because so many people come to Raleigh.
• 2:36
  But this year, it seemed to be a little more increased. It was so much worse. Yeah.
• 2:41
  And I saw an article that was talking about major construction on Blue Ridge
• 2:45
  Road that was supposed to be finished in 2024 is still happening,
• 2:50
  contributing to a lot of that traffic. And it got me thinking.
• 2:54
  So I went and looked at the NCDOT website to see more about that project and
• 3:01
  saw that it was contracted out and is now delayed to possibly be finished in mid-2026.
• 3:09
  So this is the more efficient private industry out there that was supposed to be done in 2024?
• 3:15
  Now it's going to be... According to this article, yes. Later in 2026.
• 3:18
  Okay. And how much are we paying?
• 3:20
  According to this, the contract was awarded to them for $346.2 million.
• 3:27
  That's a lot. Whoa. Mm-hmm.
• 3:29
  Come on. It's a whole lot. Yeah. Come on. To be late. Yeah.
• 3:34
  Wow. Yeah. Okay. I'm having a hard time.
• 3:37
  I'm calling bull hockey on the fact that that's more efficient than having your
• 3:41
  own employees build the roads. Come on.
• 3:45
  But will we know? Will we ever know if it's more efficient?
• 3:48
  So did anything come out of that committee about, I would hope the committee wants a breakdown.
• 3:52
  Show us what the contracts are, how much they cost, and compare it to how much
• 3:57
  it would have cost to do it in-house.
• 3:58
  Did they ask for that? Yeah, there were some questions around contractors,
• 4:02
  but those hard questions.
• 4:04
  Well, I think it's a very simple premise.
• 4:08
  Compare it to if you did it in-house. How are we coming out?
• 4:11
  Well, it is. I mean, this is right there with contract transparency that we've
• 4:15
  talked about. And we had this conversation with Chairman Torbett when he was
• 4:18
  on the podcast that not only the state health plan and retirement system contracts,
• 4:23
  but all of these DOT contracts.
• 4:25
  You know, how much are we spending on stuff? Well, Phoenix is never going to
• 4:27
  say you should use state employees no matter what, no matter if it's more efficient or not.
• 4:32
  But if no one's looking at whether it's more efficient or more cost efficient. Then we don't know.
• 4:38
  That's not, that's wasteful.
• 4:41
  Yeah, I just take issue with the overall philosophy that the private sector
• 4:45
  can always do things more cost efficiently. That's obviously not true.
• 4:51
  Like, that's the reason we have government in the first place, right?
• 4:55
  I mean. Well, and Representative Kidwell...
• 4:58
  It's very solid in his philosophy that government is a business.
• 5:02
  I disagree. I'm pretty sure everybody in this room disagrees.
• 5:06
  It is not a business. It's the opposite of a business. It's the opposite of a business.
• 5:10
  So you can't run it like a business. It doesn't get to make a profit.
• 5:15
  I mean, agencies have to do things to the wire.
• 5:19
  And businesses are seeking to make a profit.
• 5:23
  Their whole goal of a business is not to break even. The whole goal of state
• 5:27
  agencies is to break even and not spend any more of the money.
• 5:31
  Don't go over your budget. Right.
• 5:33
  Well, if there was a business that could build a road and make profit from it,
• 5:37
  then you wouldn't need a DOT.
• 5:40
  Right. Like, obviously, the need is there, and government agencies,
• 5:44
  departments, they exist to fill that need.
• 5:46
  And find me a business that doesn't increase what they charge you every year.
• 5:51
  Government, the whole goal of whoever's in charge, they try to keep the taxes from going up.
• 5:58
  Business literally every year increases your costs.
• 6:03
  That's just an offensive way to look at it from a state employee's perspective.
• 6:10
  If I was a state employee, which I do represent state employees,
• 6:13
  so maybe I kind of am, but I would be offended by something like that.
• 6:19
  Taxpayer period you should be offended by. Yeah.
• 6:22
  Well, it's a bit of a gross generalization. It really is. It's like saying every
• 6:26
  single state contract goes to a contractor that's charging way too much.
• 6:31
  No, every one of them's probably not.
• 6:33
  But how do you know unless you look at them?
• 6:36
  So to make a gross generalization that, oh, yeah, they're more efficient without
• 6:40
  us comparing them to if we did the work in-house is no more fair than saying
• 6:46
  they're all crooked contracts. That would be ridiculous.
• 6:50
  Well, the Oversight Committee on the Department of Transportation meets tomorrow.
• 6:54
  So if there's any follow-up questioning.
• 6:56
  So I was reading a different WRAL article specifically on that meeting,
• 7:01
  but they focus mostly on the DMV part of the presentation, I guess.
• 7:06
  Commissioner Paul Tine said that wait times have decreased by 31% in recent months. So that's good.
• 7:13
  We talked a lot about DMV over the last few months, a lot of interest in that.
• 7:18
  And the improvement follows recent hiring of dozens of DMV examiners.
• 7:24
  So maybe they're on the right track there.
• 7:26
  Yeah, and Commissioner Tyne certainly had some work cut out for himself,
• 7:29
  but he seems to be on a good track to make some good changes within the agency.
• 7:35
  And we are working to get him on the podcast. Yeah, we are.
• 7:38
  He said in that meeting that he had been, I think there's 115 offices and he had visited 113.
• 7:43
  He's been to almost every one of them. So he shared some really good real-time
• 7:47
  experience, experiences that he had with employees on the ground doing the job. So, yeah.
• 7:53
  Anything else come out of that meeting that you?
• 7:56
  That's about it. Well, let's go to our interview. I think that's a good transition
• 8:00
  from this discussion on the role of state employment and public services in
• 8:05
  general to our great interview with State Human Resources Director, Stacey Meyer.
• 8:10
  She was very personable, and we enjoyed having some time with her.
• 8:14
  So we'll come back. Yeah, we said it in time. Just, she's awesome.
• 8:19
  So we'll listen to that, and we'll come back for a little wrap-up at the end.
• 8:27
  Okay today we are very excited to have a
• 8:30
  special guest join us state human resources director
• 8:33
  stacy meyer is in the podcast studio with us how are you i'm great i'm so glad
• 8:39
  to be here today thanks for asking me and director meyer you're kind of new
• 8:43
  to the job i guess when governor stein came on i am aboard with him right so
• 8:48
  i started on january 1st with governor stein's team Okay,
• 8:52
  tell us a little bit about your background, I guess.
• 8:54
  Well, I've been in state government. This is my 10th administration.
• 8:57
  So I've been in state government, a state employee for many years now, way more than 30. Wow.
• 9:04
  So I have enjoyed my career. I started as an intern at the SBI.
• 9:10
  I worked for the Department of Revenue for a period of time as an intern,
• 9:15
  left and went to law school and finished.
• 9:18
  After I finished law school, I came back to state employment.
• 9:21
  I never really wanted to do anything else. That was the plan.
• 9:26
  And I began clerking at the North Carolina Court of Appeals and then on to the
• 9:30
  Attorney General's office where I worked for many years doing litigation and
• 9:35
  left after a period of time,
• 9:37
  about almost 15 years, and went to the Department of Natural and Cultural Resources.
• 9:43
  And I was there for many years, left there, and went a change in administration.
• 9:48
  After the Easley administration, and I went to the Industrial Commission,
• 9:52
  and later became, I was a commissioner there, and later became chair.
• 9:57
  And another change of administration, I went back to the Attorney General's
• 10:01
  office and worked there for several years, and then, of course,
• 10:05
  went back to natural and cultural resources.
• 10:08
  They say you can't go home again, but I loved going back to natural and cultural
• 10:12
  resources in that role as chief deputy there.
• 10:16
  I had a great experience as deputy secretary and then chief deputy,
• 10:20
  and I left there to take this job in January.
• 10:24
  So you may hold the record for most departments worked in? Well, yes, I might.
• 10:30
  Actually, I've either worked in or represented almost every department in state
• 10:36
  government, with the exception of military and veterans,
• 10:39
  because it didn't exist when I was moving until recently and I was moving around in agencies and DIT.
• 10:47
  So they were two that I didn't represent or work in, but most every one in some
• 10:52
  fashion I have. Wow. So how many years is that? Do you?
• 10:56
  I think it's close to 36. Okay. You know, not that I'm counting,
• 11:00
  but I looked in the system.
• 11:02
  I didn't really have any idea how much time I had, but I looked in the system
• 11:05
  and it told me in orbit the last time I'd been in there was 2009.
• 11:09
  That's probably not a good idea. You should probably go in that system more
• 11:14
  often. I'm sure the treasurer would say, you need to check on these things.
• 11:17
  But I hadn't, of course. And so it told me with sick leave and all that,
• 11:22
  I think close to 36 years.
• 11:25
  Wow. So who better to hold this position, right?
• 11:28
  And that leads us to our next question. I've been really wanting to know the answer to this.
• 11:33
  Okay. Because you have seen it, and I've shared this with Governor Stein.
• 11:37
  I think you're the most qualified person he probably could have picked for this
• 11:41
  job because you've literally done
• 11:43
  everything from the lowest levels of the agencies to running an agency.
• 11:48
  And I don't even think there's a handful of people you could find who've done that.
• 11:53
  So having seen it all, having struggled with a lot of things about the HR parts
• 11:59
  of state government over decades, what has surprised you most with OSHR and
• 12:05
  what has just not surprised you a bit?
• 12:07
  I have a lot of experience as a state employee. So.
• 12:12
  That was my focus. You know, I'm coming to this job. You know,
• 12:16
  I've worked in human resources and with human resources my whole career.
• 12:20
  I've managed it or been part of it or done employment law.
• 12:24
  So I've had a lot of experience on the human resources side.
• 12:27
  But the best and most experience I have is as a state employee.
• 12:31
  So I came with that perspective. And I think that's really important.
• 12:36
  Like, what's the most surprising thing? So I'm surprised by the size of our agency and budget.
• 12:42
  That we're able to do as much as we are with such a small office.
• 12:47
  When I was at DNCR, it was a much bigger agency.
• 12:50
  And, you know, the great part about that is that even as a large agency,
• 12:54
  it moved with speed and agility. And I love that.
• 12:58
  But with a smaller staff, we have to be ready to pivot. And we have to answer
• 13:02
  a lot of different questions.
• 13:05
  It seems like every question is a different subject area. It's all in HR,
• 13:09
  but it does impact how we do business.
• 13:12
  Recently, I was talking to one person on my team, and we're talking about the impact that OSHR has.
• 13:20
  And it's like, so, well, I understand, you know, there are so many state employees
• 13:24
  and there are so many agencies.
• 13:25
  I said, yeah, there are. But the amazing thing is that through all of these
• 13:31
  state employees, we touch everyone who lives in North Carolina and who visits North Carolina.
• 13:38
  So while we're small, we're small and mighty. We really have a large footprint. How many? About 135.
• 13:44
  Oh, wow. So we don't have a huge team, but they do amazing things.
• 13:49
  And I've watched as they have undertaken changes since I've been there and with
• 13:56
  hardships that are happening because like with furloughs and with no budget.
• 14:01
  I mean, all of these things are issues that we deal with every day.
• 14:05
  So I am very impressed with our staff and our team at OSHR and how we handle,
• 14:11
  you know, various topics. So it's exciting to be there, that's for sure.
• 14:16
  So this is a broad question. What's the biggest challenge for the state as an employer?
• 14:21
  And you can probably tie this into some of the conversation that we would have
• 14:24
  asked you about, too, with Senate Bill 124 that Governor Stein signed on July 1.
• 14:30
  That was a fantastic piece of legislation.
• 14:33
  So kind of talk about how that plays into being the employer here and,
• 14:39
  you know, for North Carolina and the challenges that we face and how Senate
• 14:43
  Bill 124, which is now law, will help you.
• 14:46
  Well, let me just talk briefly and say, you know, I went to the legislature
• 14:50
  and said, you know, we got to have some changes.
• 14:53
  You know, our statewide vacancy rate is about 20 percent.
• 14:57
  And when I was talking to these committees at the legislature,
• 15:01
  I explained, you know, our average time to hire somebody is about 182 days.
• 15:06
  That was the predecessor to Session Law 2025-34, excuse me.
• 15:13
  And so these are all points that I've been trying to make.
• 15:17
  You know, in six years, more than 25% of state employees can retire.
• 15:22
  We have a 20% vacancy rate. It takes us 182 days to fill a job.
• 15:27
  We have to figure out a way to make human resources easier, faster, and better.
• 15:33
  So that was sort of an effort.
• 15:36
  With the session law and changes in the session law that would really help us
• 15:41
  address some of these issues.
• 15:42
  So talking about the changes in the session law, I'm just going to go through
• 15:47
  sort of a number of things that I think are really impactful in how we address
• 15:51
  those issues that I laid out before the legislature.
• 15:54
  One, it allows candidates to apply for state jobs with a resume or an online profile.
• 16:00
  In the past, we hadn't been able to use things like LinkedIn and Indeed.
• 16:04
  It expands temporary to permanent hiring to all agencies.
• 16:09
  And I think that is sort of a critical piece when you're able to hire a temp.
• 16:13
  And you can do that very quickly using temp solutions or some agencies are able to hire directly.
• 16:18
  But if you can hire a temporary after six months, they can be made permanent in that role.
• 16:24
  If there is a vacancy, they can be turned into a permanent employee.
• 16:28
  Making permanent agency hiring pay and classification more flexible.
• 16:32
  You know, agencies now have about 95% delegation authority, and we made that permanent.
• 16:38
  So agencies have flexibility for continuous postings.
• 16:42
  That makes it easier for them to hire. They have an ability now to do pooled hiring.
• 16:48
  So you get into a pool of applicants, and they can all come into one pool.
• 16:53
  You can interview for more than one job.
• 16:55
  And it's really exciting to watch what agencies are able to do.
• 16:59
  We want agencies to be able to immediately hire the most qualified candidates
• 17:04
  from a previous posting.
• 17:06
  That wasn't a possibility before, but with the changes to the law that it is now.
• 17:11
  We are looking at a complete rewrite of Chapter 126.
• 17:15
  We want to modernize our performance management process. That is one thing I
• 17:20
  think managers, it's hard for employees, it's hard for managers.
• 17:24
  I'm able to look at the data that we have to see utilization rates of that.
• 17:29
  So we want to look at performance management and how to simplify that and make
• 17:33
  it easier so it helps our state employees.
• 17:36
  It helps managers and agencies to really look at performance.
• 17:40
  And so we're trying to modernize that.
• 17:43
  Everyone will love that. I know that. I believe that.
• 17:46
  And just a real quick, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but Chapter 126 for our listeners
• 17:51
  is the State Human Resources Act. Yes, I'm sorry.
• 17:53
  Chapter 126 is the State Human Resources Act. It was written when I was four years old.
• 17:58
  Yeah. And as you can see, your viewers can't, but that was a minute ago.
• 18:04
  So it's time for us to modernize that. And I'll just say a couple more things now.
• 18:10
  You know, one, the changes in the session law, they allow sign-on and retention bonuses.
• 18:15
  They're allowing veteran and National Guard hiring preferences for local governments.
• 18:20
  That hadn't been done in the past. And again, that session law tells us to rewrite
• 18:26
  the State Human Resources Act, to modernize it and simplify it.
• 18:30
  So, modernizing the State Human Resources Act seems very crucial to the next
• 18:37
  generation of state employees, right, to entice folks to come to work here.
• 18:41
  So, what does the state workforce look like right now?
• 18:44
  Right now, the current average age of a state employee is about 46 years old,
• 18:49
  and that has held true probably for about 10 years now.
• 18:54
  So, it's been on a fairly consistent trend for the last decade.
• 18:58
  But, you know, I think it's really important that we get new state employees.
• 19:04
  Well, like I said a minute ago, in six years, 25 percent of us can retire.
• 19:09
  So critically, reaching out and getting new state employees is how we prepare for the future.
• 19:16
  And again, having diversity of age and experience across state government, I think, is critical.
• 19:23
  Yeah, we're facing the same thing as seen it. Yeah, any organization.
• 19:28
  We always say it's just like the church.
• 19:30
  You have to be putting them in the pew all ages because the same folks aren't
• 19:35
  going to run the church forever.
• 19:36
  So state government's got to be diverse. Yes.
• 19:40
  To keep going and to keep building that experience base that we rely on right now.
• 19:45
  But we'll speak into that relying on retirees.
• 19:49
  They feel a little neglect. And this isn't your job to try to advocate for retirees.
• 19:53
  So I'm not trying to put it on you.
• 19:55
  I know we have retiree listeners, and they are feeling shocked and really disappointed
• 20:01
  that they had seen retirees get colas every year, all these years they were
• 20:07
  working, and they stayed with the state thinking,
• 20:09
  this is how we treat the retirees, so I want to stay long enough to be a retiree.
• 20:14
  You've got a workforce that you're trying to retain.
• 20:18
  Do you think it's possible that seeing how retirees are being treated right
• 20:24
  now, that they've been shut out of any adjustment in their paycheck,
• 20:28
  their base pay as a retiree.
• 20:29
  Is that potentially affecting the ability to retain workers right now who may
• 20:35
  be, I don't know, somewhere between 11 and 20 years trying to decide,
• 20:38
  am I going to stick it out?
• 20:39
  Well, I think, you know, I think knowing and understanding your benefits and
• 20:44
  elevating the value of public service is something that my office is very committed to doing.
• 20:50
  And I said earlier today, you know, knowing what benefits that we have and how
• 20:55
  they work, and I'm guilty. I told you I didn't go into the retirement system
• 21:00
  website. You know, the last time I'd been in it was 2009.
• 21:03
  But I think understanding the value of a pension, of salary increases given
• 21:10
  by the legislature, of various programs we have, like 401ks and 457s.
• 21:16
  So at our last Teachers and State Employees Retirement Board meeting,
• 21:20
  and I sit on that by virtue of the position that I hold,
• 21:23
  there was comment on retirees and the cost of living adjustment and what's needed
• 21:28
  in the state employees retirement fund for that. So there was a lengthy discussion.
• 21:33
  So I know those issues around retirees is at the forefront.
• 21:37
  That is being discussed and contemplated by the Treasurer's Office and the Retirement
• 21:42
  Fund, as well as the legislature.
• 21:44
  So that is out there. But I think we need to do, hopefully at OSHR,
• 21:49
  we can do a different and better job going forward of explaining the types of
• 21:54
  benefits that we have, like 401ks and 457s and the estate employee's ability
• 22:00
  to put away $25 or $50 or $100 of a paycheck.
• 22:04
  I know in some cases there's not an ability to do that.
• 22:08
  It's not there. You can't do it. But the value, you know, I just feel like if
• 22:13
  I had that information, I might have done things differently 35 years ago.
• 22:18
  And so I think explaining what the value of being a state employee is,
• 22:23
  and particularly in this world today, of there are not really pension funds.
• 22:27
  I mean, they are dwindling. And government is one of the few places where you
• 22:32
  have a defined pension benefit plan.
• 22:33
  So having that, along with the ancillary benefits or auxiliary benefits we have,
• 22:39
  and like the 457, the flex benefits, or the 401k, those are all great values to state employees.
• 22:48
  We do run into that a lot. People will say, oh, I didn't know we had that.
• 22:51
  I think that is, and that is something I want us to look very carefully at,
• 22:56
  how we tell those stories. And I think it's really critically important in the
• 23:00
  retention part of, do I stay?
• 23:03
  Do I make this a career? I want everyone to think about state service as a career.
• 23:09
  When you come in, there's all kinds of reasons how this can be a great career.
• 23:14
  It's been a great career for me. So I want other people to feel like I feel
• 23:19
  and that I made absolutely the right choice.
• 23:22
  So on the flip side of that, how do we recruit and retain younger employees
• 23:28
  who may not really be looking for a 30-year career right now?
• 23:31
  We've talked about that in our Gen Z moment that we have every episode that
• 23:36
  seems like younger employees are looking to...
• 23:40
  Well, I heard an interesting keynote speech last week.
• 23:44
  I was at a conference, and it was not something I expected, but it was on the
• 23:48
  generations of, we have four generations in our workforce right now.
• 23:54
  And, you know, we talk about the difference in baby boomers.
• 23:57
  I'm a baby boomer. There weren't many of us in the room, let me just say.
• 24:01
  And then we had the Gen X, and then we had the millennials, and then we had
• 24:05
  the Gen Z, and about how all of our generations think differently about work.
• 24:10
  And hearing that, it was impactful.
• 24:13
  It taught me a lot about how I think and how things work and how it's different
• 24:19
  for me than it is for a millennial and how they look at things differently.
• 24:23
  For example, you know, looking at longevity pay, you know, in the state system, that's 10 years.
• 24:28
  When you reach 10 years, that's longevity pay.
• 24:30
  You know, does that hold true for today? Is that something, is longevity 10 years?
• 24:36
  Is it a shorter time? Those are all things that I think we have to look at in
• 24:40
  terms of retention of state employees and in terms of how we approach recruiting
• 24:46
  and making a career within state government.
• 24:48
  We need to be in high schools. We need to be at community colleges.
• 24:52
  We need to be everywhere. And I think we need state employees to say,
• 24:57
  I have a valuable career.
• 25:00
  Maybe not every job, but pretty much every job that is out in the real world,
• 25:06
  we have that same job in state government.
• 25:09
  And we do all of those things that the private sector does.
• 25:14
  So somewhere out there, there are incredible jobs that compare to that job that you're looking at.
• 25:22
  In the private sector. You got competitors. Yes.
• 25:26
  And so one of the things, too, I think about the competition is that in state government,
• 25:32
  like the changes that we've made under the new session law, it is critically
• 25:37
  important that, you know, we removed a lot of barriers, like experience barriers
• 25:41
  and college degree requirements.
• 25:43
  We have so many postings that required a college degree.
• 25:47
  Now we've sort of pared that down and kind of cut out all the unnecessary qualifications.
• 25:52
  So that it allows a wider pool. It allows people to be considered.
• 25:57
  I think it's off-putting when you look at a job and you see an experience requirement
• 26:03
  that's so long, you get to the bottom of it and go, wow, I don't even qualify
• 26:08
  for this. I'm not going to apply.
• 26:10
  And so streamlining that, making it simple and making it easier and making those
• 26:16
  barriers of so detailed expectation of what this position requires,
• 26:21
  making that a management preference rather than a requirement to apply.
• 26:25
  I think that's going to help us in terms of recruiting.
• 26:29
  And, you know, the temp to perm piece where if you get hired as a temp and you're
• 26:34
  doing a great job, you can be hired into that position.
• 26:37
  In the past, if that position was posted, you may have to apply.
• 26:41
  And then out there in the world, you have a lot more competition.
• 26:47
  People with higher degrees are more experienced. But you've been doing the job.
• 26:51
  If you're that person in the job and you're doing a great job,
• 26:54
  then it solves a real serious recruitment issue of this person's great.
• 27:00
  Do I really have to go out and look for another person, go through the interview
• 27:05
  process, the screening?
• 27:07
  It all costs money, but more importantly, it costs time.
• 27:11
  And the time that it costs means that there's this vacant position in state government that,
• 27:16
  And what does that mean? That means some other state employee is having to do
• 27:21
  that person's job when it's vacant. And it's just a burden on existing employees.
• 27:26
  So having those jobs filled quicker and better and faster, I think,
• 27:31
  is just a win for all of us. That's great.
• 27:34
  Yeah. And, you know, Scenic's been pounding this drum since we're sitting here
• 27:38
  talking about making government employment appealing.
• 27:42
  We've been pounding the drum over vacancy. I mean, we've had a crisis here in
• 27:47
  North Carolina where taxpayers are maybe getting about 75 percent of the services
• 27:52
  that they're paying 100 percent for with their tax dollars.
• 27:55
  So that being said, what's an updated number of the current vacancy rate?
• 27:59
  I think it's about 19 percent now, like close to 19.
• 28:02
  It has come down a little bit, but I will tell you that I think that the data
• 28:07
  that we have, I think looking at it,
• 28:10
  it's hard to tell what the actual vacancy is compared to positions that have
• 28:16
  been vacant for a very long time that agencies aren't filling or don't need to fill.
• 28:20
  So when you look at Workday, the new Workday program that just went live on
• 28:26
  October 8th through our office, our human capital management program,
• 28:30
  that is going to give us different data.
• 28:32
  So we hope that we will be able to see how long has the position been advertised?
• 28:36
  How long does it take to fill it? It will give us that kind of information.
• 28:41
  And I promise to get that number down, time to fill, by half.
• 28:47
  We don't want to see it go down, though, because of jobs that are cut.
• 28:50
  Yeah, well, no, we don't want jobs that are cut.
• 28:53
  But what we want is we want agencies to have a way forward that they can fill
• 28:59
  their positions and they can do it easier and faster.
• 29:03
  So that helps everyone. And that's what we're looking for, just to make it easier
• 29:08
  for employees to get jobs, for agencies to fill jobs.
• 29:12
  That's the goal with our new Workday product. So we...
• 29:15
  I'm hoping, are going to get a lot better data and will be able to report a
• 29:20
  decline in the time that it takes us to hire.
• 29:23
  It's bound to improve. So I sort of staked myself out that I was really working on this.
• 29:28
  And I think there's an expectation that with the investments the legislature
• 29:32
  has made in my office, that we're going to do that. Right.
• 29:36
  Well, and you have a very well-earned reputation at the legislature as being
• 29:40
  reasonable when you deal.
• 29:42
  And sorry, listeners, I do have a mint in my mouth because I can't stop coughing.
• 29:46
  I thought you were going to say, I'm sorry, I'm not seen as reasonable.
• 29:50
  That too. But thank goodness, Director Meyer is.
• 29:53
  But you're very reasonable in your approach with legislators.
• 29:57
  And it's great because they respect you and they will listen to you.
• 30:01
  One of the things we've tried to talk about is turnover costs.
• 30:04
  If you do have vacancies and you're interviewing all the time,
• 30:07
  do we have a handle on what those are? Have we looked at that?
• 30:11
  We've looked at it. I mean, it can be as much as one to two times a salary,
• 30:16
  you know, to have that cost of turnover,
• 30:19
  especially when you get people in a job and then they're there six months and
• 30:25
  then they're gone. That is a really expensive proposition.
• 30:28
  And again, I'm going to go back to that temp to perm hiring.
• 30:31
  When somebody's been in that job and they're doing a great job and they can
• 30:35
  be made permanent after six months, I think those are the kinds of things that
• 30:40
  we want to do to avoid turnover.
• 30:42
  But I think education and leadership development and OSHR, we now have an organizational
• 30:49
  health director. So we have someone there who is focusing on
• 30:55
  organizational health. And I think that these are all critical pieces to understand
• 31:00
  our recruitment issues and our retention issues and thinking about what employees
• 31:06
  need to succeed in their careers.
• 31:08
  So we're keenly aware of the cost of turnover, and we don't want to see that.
• 31:14
  We want to see people come and we want to see people stay. Yes.
• 31:18
  So wrapping up, what do you wish people knew about state employment?
• 31:22
  Just a very broad question that we can end on.
• 31:26
  Wow. Well, I would like for them to know what I know, and that there is stability in public service.
• 31:33
  Although, you know, nationally, I think people are questioning some of that
• 31:38
  now, and that makes it a really hard thing.
• 31:40
  But long-term, state employees are doing amazing things.
• 31:45
  You know, I said earlier, they touch everything that we do in North Carolina,
• 31:50
  every citizen, we provide those services.
• 31:54
  And so they all serve critical roles in how we function as a state.
• 32:00
  And, you know, sometimes I think we as state employees don't realize the collective
• 32:06
  nature of what it means and how impactful our work is.
• 32:11
  While one job may not be impactful, the collective nature of that impacts everyone
• 32:18
  who crosses our state line and who lives in our state.
• 32:22
  So visitors and residents are
• 32:26
  Everything that we do as state employees is a critical piece of the success of North Carolina.
• 32:32
  And I think that's what our governor really tries to do is so that there's everyone
• 32:38
  has a meaningful opportunity in North Carolina.
• 32:41
  So in closing, I just want to say that, you know, you pointed out some recent
• 32:46
  successes that we've had at OSHR in terms of how we're changing our service
• 32:51
  model and the changes we got at the legislature.
• 32:54
  And I want the listeners to know that we have worked very closely with Scenic.
• 32:59
  I wouldn't have had that kind of success at the legislature without my team
• 33:03
  and without your team. And I think that's been really critical in addressing
• 33:08
  the needs of state employees and the needs of state retirees.
• 33:13
  I think all of that is important. But we have collaborated and I think have seen great success.
• 33:19
  And I think that will impact the future of OSHR. and with state employment.
• 33:25
  So working together collectively, we have been able to accomplish things that
• 33:31
  our office could not have done alone.
• 33:33
  And I just want to thank you for that. Well, we appreciate you too.
• 33:37
  That's very sweet. Thank you. Very sweet. And I will just say that we talked
• 33:41
  a little bit about when we first saw that you had taken the job.
• 33:46
  Every time we have a new governor, we also look to see who the...
• 33:50
  I mean, we hold our breath. I know.
• 33:53
  We look to see who the state human resources director will be first.
• 33:57
  And this year we were very pleased, I think. You know, I think a lot of people
• 34:00
  did not expect that someone like me would be chosen for this role.
• 34:05
  And I'm very excited to have been chosen. I go to work every day thinking about
• 34:11
  how to do this job and how to make it better for state employees and state agencies.
• 34:17
  So for me, I mean, I'm very honored to have been selected. And every day has been fulfilling.
• 34:25
  Awesome. I love it. Awesome. Perfect way to end. Thanks for coming in and spending some time with us.
• 34:38
  All right, well, that was a great interview, and hopefully we'll have her back
• 34:41
  a few more times. Yeah, there's so much to talk about.
• 34:44
  Yeah, so much. And she said she had, what, 130-some employees,
• 34:49
  and last week we had the Military and Veteran Affairs Secretary.
• 34:53
  Yeah, Secretary Jamalette.
• 34:54
  120. And she had 120. Yeah.
• 34:58
  Give them some love. Smaller but really important agencies.
• 35:02
  Yeah. So what is our Gen Z moment this week?
• 35:05
  So kind of keeping in track with us having a discussion with the state human resources director,
• 35:12
  Stacey Meyer, I found an article that was published last month,
• 35:16
  two months ago, that talks about 12 solutions for attracting Gen Z candidates to public service.
• 35:23
  The three main areas of focus that they had in here were leaning in on purpose and satisfaction,
• 35:30
  meeting Gen Z where they are, and aligning opportunities and benefits to Gen Z priorities.
• 35:38
  Now, there were different aspects to each parts of those, and I won't go too deep into them,
• 35:44
  but the specific solutions that they mention in this article are adapting your
• 35:49
  advertising to Gen Z's priorities and offering opportunities to experience public
• 35:54
  service work for the leaning in on purpose and satisfaction,
• 35:58
  which kind of goes back to discussions we've previously had about how Gen Z's
• 36:03
  are really focused on doing work that they can see the change.
• 36:08
  And see the difference that they're making.
• 36:11
  I think that ties a little bit in with what Director Meyer was saying,
• 36:14
  too, about starting as a temp and then working your way into a full-time position.
• 36:18
  I mean, she began as an intern in the state government and got so into it.
• 36:22
  Yeah. So if you're graduating high school or college and you're interested in
• 36:29
  public service, you should look into internships and temporary positions.
• 36:33
  Also, I guess maybe modernizing the Human Resources Act and also the hiring
• 36:39
  practices. Because it should be a big thing for recruiting.
• 36:42
  Which is part of their meeting Gen Zs where they are, is shortening recruitment
• 36:47
  timelines, using innovative hiring technology.
• 36:51
  Hire students early in the recruitment cycle, creating talent pipelines,
• 36:57
  leveraging role models.
• 36:59
  Going to talk to community colleges. And then when they discuss aligning opportunities
• 37:04
  and benefits to Gen Z's priorities, they're discussing more of the increasing
• 37:09
  workplace flexibility of remote and hybrid work.
• 37:13
  The hybrid opportunities when they are accessible is something that Gen Z always looks for.
• 37:19
  Because not every job can be hybrid, but when state employment has the opportunity
• 37:24
  to make a job hybrid, because I know that in the communications office at the NCDOT.
• 37:30
  Quite a few of their positions are hybrid positions where they do have optional
• 37:35
  days of you can work from home on these days.
• 37:38
  Well, that's moving with the times. Exactly. You know. Yeah.
• 37:41
  And then also. I think government's doing that. Yeah. They're actually doing a ton of remote work and.
• 37:47
  But of course. They're kind of ahead of the curve on that, I think.
• 37:50
  Not every position can do that.
• 37:52
  Correct. There are a lot of positions that don't require you to be in person. Yeah.
• 37:56
  Virtual correctional office. No. No.
• 37:59
  No. It doesn't matter if it's icy on the roads or what. You got to get there.
• 38:03
  And then some of those other alignment of opportunities and benefits include
• 38:07
  changing health care and related benefits to ensure competitiveness,
• 38:11
  providing structured development opportunities, and advertising your on-the-job perks.
• 38:18
  And she, gosh, Stacey, might have addressed that too.
• 38:21
  On that track, yeah. That we don't really get the word out there so much about
• 38:25
  things that are offered in state government.
• 38:27
  So, great. Well, that's very good. Fine there, Sam. That ties into our interview very well.
• 38:33
  So good job. It just happens to be perfect that it was released on my birthday. This article was.
• 38:39
  So the question of the week this week.
• 38:49
  So my question of the week this week is one that I've done before,
• 38:52
  but I think it's a good time to revisit it every five or six months because it changes.
• 38:57
  What are you doing right now that is cool? Like, are you into a podcast or a
• 39:02
  book or an app that you're using?
• 39:05
  What cool can we tell our members about that they need to check out?
• 39:10
  I am so not cool. Something cool we're doing or something cool we've seen or. Anything.
• 39:15
  Anything. Just what's cool, right? Like, what do people need to know about?
• 39:19
  Like a cool TV show. What do people need to know about?
• 39:21
  Okay, what do you think? I mean, it's cool to me, and I love it.
• 39:25
  I've been using ClassPass. I would love to be sponsored by ClassPass.
• 39:30
  I think that'd be a great sponsorship for us.
• 39:32
  ClassPass is a app, but it's also like a gym membership.
• 39:38
  But it's really cool because instead of paying for,
• 39:42
  say, you like going to O2 Fitness, Instead of paying $100 a month to go to O2
• 39:48
  Fitness whenever you want,
• 39:49
  you pay a certain amount of money for credits to go to any gym or participating studio in the area.
• 39:59
  So there's a lot of yoga gyms, Pilates studios, cycling studios,
• 40:04
  stuff like that that participate in it. And I love it because I get to go to
• 40:08
  Swifty Sunday cycling classes, but I can also go to like reformer Pilates classes.
• 40:14
  And it's so enjoyable for me. And it's become something that's made me more
• 40:18
  of a morning person. I will wake up at like 8 a.m.
• 40:21
  On a Saturday morning to go to a Pilates class. But if I don't have anything,
• 40:24
  I'm like, I'm sleeping till noon.
• 40:27
  Very cool. Very cool suggestion. I'm looking at it now.
• 40:30
  I'm probably not going to get it, but it is available in Charlotte and Raleigh.
• 40:36
  It's available across the country.
• 40:38
  There's so many different studios throughout the country that participate in it.
• 40:43
  It depends on your area, whether you'll have as many or less studios,
• 40:48
  but it's available wherever.
• 40:50
  That's almost like DoorDash or Uber.
• 40:53
  Yeah, except for gyms. It's like timeshare for gems.
• 40:58
  It's so cool. That's cool. That's a cool idea. I love like weird ideas like
• 41:02
  that that make it big. Yeah.
• 41:05
  And interesting. Yeah. Y'all still thinking? Susanna and I are both like squinting.
• 41:10
  I mean, I've got a... You got any new books, Susanna? Go, John,
• 41:14
  please. Buy us time. Okay.
• 41:15
  So mine is a podcast that I found and it's called Varnum Town.
• 41:21
  Do y'all know where Varnum Town is? Damn, no. Varnum Town, North Carolina? No. Oh, my God.
• 41:27
  No, I didn't think there was anywhere we didn't know. Varnumtown,
• 41:29
  North Carolina is like just the side Holden Beach.
• 41:32
  And it's like this really, it's not even really a town, but it's like a very
• 41:35
  little area. Community.
• 41:37
  Kyle McLaughlin, who is like the guy from Twin Peaks, he found out about this
• 41:42
  story or this book that someone wrote down in Varnumtown about the history of
• 41:48
  the drug trade in Varnumtown.
• 41:50
  And apparently it's like, well, I mean, obviously I've listened to it.
• 41:54
  But there was a man in Varnumtown. I won't get into specifics, so I don't get murdered.
• 42:01
  But he was working with the cartel, and Varnumtown was like,
• 42:06
  This midway point between Columbia
• 42:08
  and New York City and like drugs were coming in there and it was wild.
• 42:13
  And it's like a wild. Like our own little version of the Ozarks.
• 42:17
  Yeah, it's exactly like that. It should be a TV show.
• 42:20
  And it's this town that my uncle lives in.
• 42:23
  When I first found out about the podcast, I was like, Ricky,
• 42:26
  do you know about all this? And he was like, the lady who wrote the book is my neighbor.
• 42:30
  And so I found out I've got to talk to the neighbor. Well, now everybody knows where Ricky lives.
• 42:37
  Yeah, it's a very small town. You just exposed Ricky. Yeah.
• 42:41
  So the podcast is called Varnum Town, V-A-R-N-A-M Town.
• 42:47
  And it's very interesting. And Kyle McLaughlin is the narrator.
• 42:50
  And it's got like a Twin Peaks vibe to it, too. So it's very cool.
• 42:55
  Definitely check that one. I am definitely going to check that out.
• 42:58
  I don't know how cool this is, but, you know, with all the hullabaloo over Bad
• 43:01
  Bunny performing at the Super Bowl.
• 43:03
  You know, there was the deal with Duolingo to get some free lessons.
• 43:08
  So I've been learning some Spanish.
• 43:09
  They took advantage of that, didn't they? I jumped right on that, man.
• 43:16
  So how fluent are you now? I'm not. It's interesting, though,
• 43:21
  how much you will know, you know, from hearing and reading something,
• 43:26
  but not be conversational. Yeah.
• 43:28
  There are lots of words like, oh, I knew that. I knew that. But to sit and have
• 43:32
  a conversation, yeah, so far from that, so far from that. But goals. Yeah, definitely.
• 43:38
  I think it's harder to learn a new language as you get older, right?
• 43:42
  They say if you can learn it when you're like three, then you.
• 43:45
  Yeah, you just kind of grow up with it. Yeah.
• 43:47
  So there's a, you know, if I learn it too, then it's something that I can pass
• 43:50
  on to. Yeah. To my grandbabies, Mia and Libby. So that was cool. Yeah.
• 43:56
  What about you, Artis? You're on the hot seat. Well, there's this new thing called the air fryer.
• 44:01
  You know how I'm usually about 10 years late on things. And so I've only recently
• 44:06
  started really using the air fryer.
• 44:09
  It's awesome. Yeah, the air fryer is great. It is changing my life. I just love mine.
• 44:14
  So if any of you have never heard of an air fryer, try it.
• 44:19
  Air fryer is great. It's a cool new thing. Faster than an oven.
• 44:22
  And it's great for reheating pizza.
• 44:24
  Yeah, it's not mushy like when you put it in the oven. And I have no idea if
• 44:28
  it uses more power than the oven or not.
• 44:31
  But that would be interesting. If it doesn't, that would make it even cooler.
• 44:34
  I would think it doesn't because it's just blowing air around,
• 44:38
  right? I have no idea. I don't know. I don't know how it works.
• 44:41
  There's a coil. All I know is the wings are crispy when they come out.
• 44:45
  All I know is 10 minutes at 400 for the best salmon that I've ever had. See, I'm a trailblazer.
• 44:55
  That's a good place to wrap up thanks for joining us this week and we'll see you next week.