Latest / Politix / Discipline and Punish

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Discipline and Punish · Politix

• 0:00
  It's not like the best strategy,
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  but it's better than like doubling down,
• 0:04
  right?
• 0:05
  Like if Trump went out on the cameras and was like,
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  fuck yeah,
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  I'm cutting Medicaid.
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  SPEAKER_03: I want millions of people to lose health insurance.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's going to be really good.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like that would be, I mean, it would be great for Democrats.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, no, he should definitely do that.
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  He should also come out and talk about wanting to cut Medicare
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  and Social Security
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: while he's at it.
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  SPEAKER_01: That sounds great.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, guys.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to a free preview of the Politics Podcast.
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  Brian is on vacation in either Belgium or Portugal or somewhere
• 0:37
  between those countries.
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  SPEAKER_03: So my guest today is Mackenzie Wilson from Blue Rose Research.
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  SPEAKER_03: We're going to talk about their sort of postmortem work on the election,
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: where what they think sort of happened last fall,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: where we are now.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then in the paid section going forward, we're going to look at the
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: sort of what's working and what's not working in anti-Trump messaging.
• 0:59
  So I hope you like it and you'll tell Brian that she's way
• 1:02
  better than him and just
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: has much better ideas.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Hey folks, welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Brian is on vacation in Europe somewhere,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: gallivanting,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: just,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: running down the American trade deficit in Belgium and Portugal.
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  SPEAKER_03: So I am here with a special guest,
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  SPEAKER_03: Mackenzie Wilson,
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  SPEAKER_03: a friend of mine for years now,
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  I think not as well known to the podcast listening audience as
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  she should be,
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  SPEAKER_03: but you are the Director of External Affairs.
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  SPEAKER_03: Is that your title at Blue Rose Research?
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  SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so nice to meet you.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's great.
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  SPEAKER_03: So tell the world, what is Blue Rose?
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  SPEAKER_01: So Blue Rose Research is a content testing firm.
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  A lot of folks probably know David Shore and potentially
• 1:56
  listened to his podcast
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  interview with Ezra Klein earlier this year to talk about our
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  2024 retrospective
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  SPEAKER_01: report.
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  SPEAKER_01: So
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, our firm did 26 million interviews with respondents last year.
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  It was a lot of data and put out one of the first comprehensive
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  reports about sort
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  SPEAKER_01: of what happened,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: where Democrats maybe went a little bit off the rails.
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  SPEAKER_01: And by a little, I mean a lot.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: we we look at we do ad testing,
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  SPEAKER_01: message testing,
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  SPEAKER_01: do a really wide variety of testing for the party.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we are the.
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  comic book villains that you see a lot of on Twitter of when
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  people talk about,
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  SPEAKER_01: oh,
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  SPEAKER_01: we hate message testing.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, hi, so nice to meet you.
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  SPEAKER_01: But it's a really great time working at Blue Rose Research.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: one of the things that I would just say as I made that joke is,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I am coming from
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  SPEAKER_01: corporate America.
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  SPEAKER_01: I only worked in corporate marketing for like two years,
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  SPEAKER_01: so I way overextend how long I worked there.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I do think it's important to understand,
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  and I think anyone who's listening to this podcast is probably
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  not super skeptical,
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  but we see so much shit getting taken against polling and
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  against message testing.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's really important to just understand
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  SPEAKER_01: On the corporate side,
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  this is a very critical and normal part of what any sort of
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  brand or product
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  SPEAKER_01: company would do.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a real thrill to get to dig into the data.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a data nerd, so I'm sort of this weird... I'm not a pollster.
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  SPEAKER_01: The comms people are sort of like,
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  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  SPEAKER_01: you're not really a comms person either,
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  SPEAKER_01: so I'm this weird middleman,
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  SPEAKER_01: but really excited to chat with you today about all these messages.
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  SPEAKER_03: Well, and so most recently before this, you were at HHS, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: I was, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_03: So,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  I think this is good because I feel like the message testing
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  world takes a lot of
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  SPEAKER_03: shit from people in part because it has been so kind of secretive,
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  SPEAKER_03: like black boxy.
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  And,
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  you know,
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  it's good to have someone who,
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  you know,
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  people who communicate with the public.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think understandably part of that,
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  SPEAKER_01: right,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: is when you do private work for clients,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: Patrick Ruffini isn't like,
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  SPEAKER_01: always talking about the inner deep,
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  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: polling and message testing of what Republicans are doing wrong.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  So,
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  you know,
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  there's,
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  um,
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  some of that I think is a little bit,
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  uh,
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  a feature,
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  not a bug.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I, I totally take your point.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  I was the national press secretary of the department of health
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  and human services,
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  SPEAKER_01: which,
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  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: another industry that people,
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  SPEAKER_01: um,
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  SPEAKER_01: have no idea what it does.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, uh, apparently my niche is just, you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: working for fields that people don't understand.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very excited to be here.
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  SPEAKER_03: So what did happen in 2024?
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  SPEAKER_03: So Trump won.
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  SPEAKER_03: I remember that part.
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  SPEAKER_03: It seemed like,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_03: I think we just had this big New York Times,
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  SPEAKER_03: like maps piece that was like,
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  SPEAKER_03: just like all the arrows were red.
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  SPEAKER_03: Catalyst did their report.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  Fascinating demographic breakdowns,
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  but like also it was really just like all the demographics.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_03: shifted to Trump.
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  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they shifted by different amounts, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: But,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: in a way,
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  SPEAKER_03: it strikes me that like,
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  SPEAKER_03: well,
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  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
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  SPEAKER_03: people weren't happy with the,
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  SPEAKER_03: like,
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  SPEAKER_03: broadly speaking,
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  SPEAKER_03: people weren't happy with the Biden administration.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're welcome.
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  SPEAKER_01: No.
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  SPEAKER_03: Wait, was it your fault?
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  SPEAKER_03: How much?
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  SPEAKER_01: It was all my fault.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: No, I think like,
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  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  when we get into these like really deep inner party discourse
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  conversations,
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  SPEAKER_01: I like sort of taking a step back and,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: like rewinding where are we,
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  SPEAKER_01: what happened here?
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  And one of these stats that is one of those things that gets
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  thrown around that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: really just struck me was something that we found in our retrospective.
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  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, a lot of polling found was that, you know,
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  Joe Biden's favorability was lower the day that he left office
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  than Donald Trump's
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  SPEAKER_01: was after January 6th.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's like common sense,
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  SPEAKER_01: sort of,
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  SPEAKER_01: and people might be listening and be like,
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  SPEAKER_01: OK,
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  SPEAKER_01: sure,
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  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
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  But it was intellectually one of those things that I think is
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  hard as a progressive
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  SPEAKER_01: and just as a Democrat sometimes to internalize,
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  SPEAKER_01: right,
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  SPEAKER_01: is this idea of
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people really hated us.
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  And I think that's just fundamental to understanding what
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  happened is just how out
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  SPEAKER_01: of step we seemed with the American people.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: in a lot of respects,
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  SPEAKER_01: when you look at what happened in 2024,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of impressive that we won some of the races that we did.
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  You know,
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  when you look at the Senate and some of the overperformances
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  there,
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  You know,
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  it's kind of shocking to think that people like Ruben Gallego
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  are now in the Senate.
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  But I mean,
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  I think so fundamentally,
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  right,
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  as we saw,
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  people just really didn't like us.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I also think some of that was that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: they just really didn't feel like we were meeting the moment.
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  SPEAKER_01: Truthfully,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  I think we felt some of that when we were within when I was in
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  the administration.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's very hard, I think, when you're looking that far down a headwind.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I worked in at HHS,
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  which was overseeing prescription drug reform and prescription
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  drug negotiations,
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  SPEAKER_01: which was,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: one of the most popular parts of the Inflation Reduction Act.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  arguably the most popular part of President Biden's singular
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  achievement or,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: singular most popular policy achievement.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: It just didn't matter.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, we could do every press conference.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: we could do I think the secretary,
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  SPEAKER_01: Secretary Javier Becerra did more travel or,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: significantly more travel than I think most members of the cabinet did.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: at the end of the day,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's just that when the overall picture was so grim,
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  SPEAKER_01: it was never going to be enough,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't think.
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  SPEAKER_01: At least it didn't feel that way.
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  I also thought part of the issue there – I mean,
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  you never know how these things work,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_03: Like how –
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  SPEAKER_03: everything is very intermediated by multiple layers of things.
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  SPEAKER_03: But one thing was that the people who are the intermediators,
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  SPEAKER_03: right,
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  SPEAKER_03: like people like me,
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: people in the media,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: but advocates too,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: like everybody knew that that was really a climate and energy bill.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's like how it was explained in
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Inside the party,
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  even though it was like also true that there was all this data
• 8:55
  that was like the
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: prescription drug reforms are the winner.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so like people knew that, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: Like Secretary Becerra was out on the road.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: They talked about it a lot.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: You guys did a lot of press events.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: They like didn't call it like a signature climate bill.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: But like all the news coverage did call it that because...
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_03: Nobody ever looked me in the eye and was like,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Matt,
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  this is a piece of legislation whose primary focus is lowering
• 9:22
  the cost of
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  SPEAKER_03: prescription drugs for the American people.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's sort of fair.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's interesting.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that goes into something we might want to talk about today.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of this idea of...
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're in this environment where every time as a politician,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: you are reaching a voter,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's a tweet or a press release,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: or just like literally any form of communication is a,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: is a choice about what you're prioritizing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're seeing that from Republicans now too, right?
• 9:59
  Where they're sort of deploying the same strategy that we did
• 10:02
  with our BBB fight
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: of,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: of trying to package everything into this like one Trojan horse and,
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: right now,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of the coverage has been around Medicaid cuts,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: which I'm very grateful for.
• 10:15
  You know,
• 10:15
  minority leader Hakeem Jeffries keeping everyone together on
• 10:18
  that.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But they would probably argue,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: that it's really about these tax cuts that are,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: from their minds,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: helping stimulate the economy,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: blah,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: blah,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: blah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit.
• 10:30
  But like,
• 10:33
  so I would argue,
• 10:34
  right,
• 10:35
  that it really was a prescription drug bill.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I think that's fair.
• 10:40
  And I think it's just something as a party we have to be
• 10:43
  conscious of,
• 10:43
  of just like what you,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: spend the most time prioritizing,
• 10:47
  whether it's talking to media or talking to influencers or just
• 10:50
  in general,
• 10:51
  the different pieces of any legislation or platform that you're
• 10:55
  prioritizing.
• 10:55
  Like those are choices and signals that you are giving out to
• 10:59
  outside groups,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: to advocates,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: to reporters,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: to voters,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: just in general.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like an underrated fact of democratic communications.
• 11:09
  And so,
• 11:10
  I mean,
• 11:10
  this,
• 11:10
  you know,
• 11:10
  going back into the sort of post-mortem retrospective,
• 11:13
  right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Voters were very interested in the cost of living, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And what else?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: What else was popping for people?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, cost of living was king, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that...
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would encourage everyone to go look at the retrospective,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: obviously I'm biased,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: but I think it's really interesting.
• 11:35
  But there's this chart that we have in there of the issues that
• 11:40
  were most important
• 11:42
  to voters and where Democrats were most trusted on and
• 11:45
  Republicans were most
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: trusted on.
• 11:48
  And the areas that we were trusted on most that were most
• 11:52
  important to voters was
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: like health care and mental health.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's one other issue that I don't remember it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that was about it.
• 12:00
  And the Republican section was just full of,
• 12:03
  you know,
• 12:04
  cost of living,
• 12:04
  inflation.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Other economic concerns, immigration.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a hacky.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there we go.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's at the bottom right.
• 12:17
  Cost of living,
• 12:18
  economy,
• 12:18
  inflation were like the three most important issues.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: to voters, and Republicans had a trust edge on all of them.
• 12:28
  They had a 10-point trust edge on cost of living,
• 12:31
  which was most important.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Then, like, economy was second, and they had a bigger advantage.
• 12:37
  And,
• 12:37
  like,
• 12:38
  you know,
• 12:39
  the top dem ones were healthcare,
• 12:41
  Medicare,
• 12:43
  mental health.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: But those were seen as less important.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: They were still important, though.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: But then, like, other stuff, like...
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: climate change,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: the environment,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: childcare,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: abortion rights,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: that Democrats had an edge on all those topics,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: but they were like,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: way on the like,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: people aren't don't care about this.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of it, right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people have tread
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: down this route.
• 13:12
  So,
• 13:12
  you know,
• 13:12
  I don't think I'm offering anything particularly new and
• 13:15
  interesting here.
• 13:15
  But I think it's really critical to recognize that we were just
• 13:20
  not highlighting
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: the parts of our agenda that were addressing those issues.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is, I think, very difficult when you look at the Democratic coalition.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's just a lot of organizations that are, you know,
• 13:33
  issue advocacy organizations around a variety of the parts of
• 13:37
  our platform.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what Republicans did really well this cycle,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: what Trump,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 13:43
  really effectively did was basically put any other issues to
• 13:47
  the side and really
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: singularly focus on hitting us on inflation.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: driving the conversation around cost of living.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:57
  something I've been reflecting a lot about and thinking about a
• 13:59
  lot is in in 2023,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: like the Susan B.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anthony Foundation,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: the right wing version of Planned Parenthood,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: was super angry at Trump for sort of,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: pushing this issue of abortion back to the states.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: they essentially just like didn't do anything, right?
• 14:22
  They were really angry and they had this private meeting and
• 14:26
  then very quickly kind
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: of just fell in line and focused singularly on electing Donald Trump.
• 14:35
  And I think what's just like really critical right now for us
• 14:39
  as Democrats as we're
• 14:40
  going through this exercise of the postmortem is to look at the
• 14:43
  tactics that the
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: right is deploying really effectively to help us understand
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: what we need to do.
• 14:52
  And I really want to be thoughtful that I'm not saying we need
• 14:55
  to do exactly what
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: the right wing is doing,
• 14:58
  but it's just hard to think through an equivalent of that
• 15:03
  exchange on the left,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what I have always found
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: really interesting and something I hesitate to say I admire,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: but just like the right is very focused on policy outcomes.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, period, end of story.
• 15:23
  They are willing to take heat or to go quiet for a while if it
• 15:31
  means that they are
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: prioritizing the electoral wins that make their policy agenda possible.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes there's this conversation of
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:43
  certain parts of the party are only focused on winning and that
• 15:47
  isn't sort of
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: prioritizing our whole agenda.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: like taking a step back,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: you have to win elections to be able to do things.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is a very critical part of policy change.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of why we're all here.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, we don't know.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like we don't know exactly what Trump said in that meeting.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: But like but like mirror imaging it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's like Trump must have said to them.
• 16:10
  Guys,
• 16:11
  we're not going to have 60 seats in the Senate,
• 16:14
  no matter what happens.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I could come out for your bill or I could come out against your bill,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: but the bill is not going to pass.
• 16:22
  But if I come out against your bill,
• 16:24
  it's going to be easier for me to win the election.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: If I win the election, we're going to keep appointing pro-life judges and
• 16:32
  You're going to have input on my downstream appointments if you
• 16:36
  can help me elect a
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Republican Senate.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things could happen that you guys like.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not having any more meetings after this.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to spend time catering to you or whatever.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: But, like, I am the more pro-life choice.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Kamala Harris is very left-wing on abortion rights.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: You should help me win the election.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm walking out of the room now.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like...
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Go do what you want.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then they and they did it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like as a as a parent,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: if there's any parents in the audience,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think this will resonate with you.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: But like you don't want to get into like bargaining with a toddler.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: You you you love your children.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: And like Trump Trump is the more pro-life candidate.
• 17:22
  in the race like that's just true objectively and he got the
• 17:27
  pro-life organization
• 17:28
  to act like he was the more pro-life choice which is to say to
• 17:33
  help him win right
• 17:35
  not to spend the whole time throwing tantrums and being like
• 17:40
  you need to show that
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: you love us you know and like talk more about our thing it was like
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't their first instinct.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they did.
• 17:49
  Early on,
• 17:50
  they put out these press releases about how,
• 17:52
  like,
• 17:52
  Trump needs to be strong.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's got to do a late-term abortion ban and stuff.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: But, like, he credibly committed, I guess, to, like, not doing that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then they were like, yeah, we support the conservative choice.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Democrats don't have that relationship with... Yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like, I can hear...
• 18:15
  Having worked for the audience,
• 18:17
  I worked on Elizabeth Warren's presidential race,
• 18:20
  right?
• 18:20
  So like my personal politics are much more left than I think a
• 18:25
  lot of the country,
• 18:26
  right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: an understandable instinct from a lot of,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:31
  democratic advocacy groups to want to push the envelope as much
• 18:36
  as possible,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's sort of, quite frankly, their role.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I...
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: think that is a fair and understandable goal.
• 18:49
  I also just think we all have to be real with ourselves about
• 18:54
  what the environment
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: for democratic candidates,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: for democratic initiatives looks like at this point.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the things that I've
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: always,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 19:08
  really admired about the right that I think we don't really
• 19:11
  have the equivalent of
• 19:13
  is an organization like ALEC that focuses singularly on kind of
• 19:18
  building these
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: state wins,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:20
  building a model of state policies that could be adopted from
• 19:25
  the federal lens.
• 19:27
  And one of the things that I find sort of frustrating in this
• 19:31
  moment that we're in of like
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know, conversations around abundance or blah, blah, blah.
• 19:36
  It's like what we're talking about is just making things work
• 19:39
  better,
• 19:40
  right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have,
• 19:40
  I think it's 15 democratic trifecta states that we could be
• 19:46
  passing a lot of things
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: in right now and doing a lot of policy work to demonstrate,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: not just what we're opposed against right now on the federal level,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: but what we actually stand for,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: whether or not that's housing policy or,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: right now there's the left,
• 20:05
  I think there's a really interesting movement around passing
• 20:11
  telemedicine shield
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: laws.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: a state like California,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: a provider could prescribe mifepristone to,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: a patient in a different zip code.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: um, to help, you know, kind of protect that access.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think understandably, right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone is still six months in kind of under,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: wrapping their brains around where we're at,
• 20:36
  but we also need to start moving into a past of past the inner
• 20:44
  fighting and whatnot
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: into it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: What now, what are we actually tangibly doing that is not, you know,
• 20:51
  press statements or press conferences that aren't necessarily
• 20:55
  outcome oriented.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I just, well, so, I mean, just like back to the chart, right.
• 21:01
  To the,
• 21:01
  the,
• 21:01
  the way like cost of living inflation economy stuff was
• 21:05
  popping.
• 21:05
  Cause I thought about this like years and years ago when I
• 21:08
  worked at a center for
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: American progress,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: I was on like the think progress team.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so like our job was to sort of like cover what's popping in the news.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: But like most of cap, uh,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: was sort of built around these issue pillars that,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: that they had donor support for,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: because that's how you put,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: that's how you put a nonprofit together,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: at one point,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: I said to somebody there,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: it's like,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: we should really,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: talk about,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: improving mass transit service.
• 21:36
  And it was like,
• 21:37
  well,
• 21:37
  you know,
• 21:37
  like,
• 21:37
  nobody wants to fund us to do that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: if you know a donor who's interested in this,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with you,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: that would be good,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, the donors have their interests, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:50
  And so there was like a climate thing and there was an
• 21:54
  immigration thing and there
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: was a financial reform thing.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: But the whole time, you know, Obama's first term, right?
• 22:01
  Like the unemployment rate was really high and people were
• 22:04
  upset about that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not like the people who work.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: My colleagues are smart people.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: They were, like, aware that this was a big issue.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: But it just,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 22:14
  literally wasn't a person's job to be advocating around
• 22:20
  reducing the unemployment
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: rate as rapidly as possible.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I wrote a piece for Democracy Journal about how, like,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Monetary policy is actually very important.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there was like no advocacy around this.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: And like eventually,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: somebody made a grant to start an organization called Employ America,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: which like exists now and is good.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a very small team, but they focus around this.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: But,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 22:50
  when the environment shifted and it's like the thing that
• 22:54
  people were worried about
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: was cost of living slash inflation slash economy was
• 23:01
  Like progressives knew that and like pivoted what they were
• 23:05
  talking about to an extent.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just still true that like there's a climate movement,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: there's an immigration reform movement,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: there's a criminal justice reform movement.
• 23:15
  There's no like make the cost of living lower movement entity
• 23:21
  that you need to be responsive to.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I always think, I mean, you must have been
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Zero years old in 1992.
• 23:30
  But the famous story from that campaign is James Carver put a
• 23:33
  sign in the office,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: it's the economy,
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: stupid,
• 23:36
  to make sure that everybody there was talking about the thing
• 23:41
  that the voters
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: wanted to hear them about,
• 23:43
  even though probably nobody got involved in professional
• 23:48
  Democratic Party politics
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: because they were upset about the 1991 recession.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 23:55
  it's like all the people working on the Clinton campaign were
• 23:57
  obviously motivated
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: by like deep seated progressive values.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: These are people who didn't like Ronald Reagan, et cetera, et cetera.
• 24:04
  But the campaign wasn't because like Ronald Reagan kept winning
• 24:08
  elections.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:09
  So it's like the focus of the campaign was on something other
• 24:13
  than the emotional
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: center of gravity of the individuals who were working on the campaign,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: because like by definition,
• 24:21
  They had to persuade people who like didn't agree with them
• 24:25
  that like Ronald Reagan
• 24:26
  sucked and that like the backlash to the civil rights movement
• 24:29
  was misguided,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: et cetera,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: et cetera.
• 24:30
  They were trying to convince people that like Bill Clinton felt
• 24:33
  your pain about
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: this lingering recession,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: blah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a kind of like fake it till you make it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: aspect of that kind of thing.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: Just like Trump, right?
• 24:44
  Like all these like MAGA psychos at the heart of the Trump
• 24:48
  movement are not people
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: who woke up one morning and were like,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: wow,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: bread got more expensive.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to become a Republican now.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's the campaigns run by Republican Party operatives.
• 24:57
  But like the winning margin is people who are upset about the
• 25:01
  price of groceries.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you talk about that.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, OK, so a couple of thoughts there.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, first of all, I think
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at the, again, when you look at our retrospective, right?
• 25:14
  One of the things you sort of talked about and you talked about
• 25:17
  just now is,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:19
  what we are seeing is kind of this like realignment around
• 25:23
  political engagement
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: itself.
• 25:25
  And so essentially,
• 25:26
  right,
• 25:26
  like anyone,
• 25:27
  and I adore the folks who listen to this podcast.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: But like, you are very weird.
• 25:33
  You care much more about politics than just about any other
• 25:37
  American,
• 25:38
  right?
• 25:38
  And so what we are seeing is the folks who care deeply and are
• 25:44
  following politics
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: and are calling congressional offices or showing up at rallies or writing
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: postcards,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: are actually just like not only just much more democratic,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: but inherently like if you are watching the news at this point,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: you are probably going to be a Democrat.
• 26:01
  So it's not just like the sickos who would like listen to a
• 26:05
  podcast about politics,
• 26:06
  but just like people who read the newspaper at all or the
• 26:10
  website about the news.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: and I would argue too,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: something that,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Democrats need to really wrap their brains around very quickly is just
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know everyone's like, oh, you got to get on TikTok.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: like TikTok news consumption is much more right wing that,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: folks who get their news from TikTok.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: which is typically, it's not a news account.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're not following the BBC TikTok account.
• 26:38
  You are getting your news from an influencer who maybe it's a
• 26:43
  five second mention,
• 26:44
  right?
• 26:45
  But those people are much more Republican than the general
• 26:49
  population and are
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: skewing younger too.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the things that we saw is this movement away from
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: the Democratic Party from young people, which was a huge shift.
• 27:02
  And it's also just,
• 27:02
  you know,
• 27:03
  again,
• 27:03
  there used to be this in 2008,
• 27:06
  2012,
• 27:06
  right?
• 27:07
  If you could pull someone off the street who really wasn't
• 27:10
  following politics,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: but you could get them to a voting booth,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: they were likely to vote for a Democrat.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now that's just simply not really the case anymore.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: the Harris for Presidents,
• 27:22
  I think chief analytics officer just did an analysis on this
• 27:26
  that found the same
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: thing.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: This has been trending down since 2008.
• 27:29
  People are steadily moving away from the Democratic Party as
• 27:33
  they're pulling away
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: from traditional news consumption.
• 27:37
  So I say all that to your point of the things that motivate us
• 27:42
  to get involved and to care about
• 27:44
  politics are just inherently going to be very different from
• 27:49
  the general population.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had another point that I completely lost as we were talking.
• 27:54
  But I think it's just like,
• 27:56
  it's simple,
• 27:57
  but it's really important,
• 27:58
  right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's just like, easy to forget that.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the like, joke about touching grass.
• 28:04
  But you know,
• 28:05
  I mean,
• 28:05
  I worked for a frontline congressional race in 2020 in Iowa.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember one time I was wearing a Joe Biden hat.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I had worked for Elizabeth Warren, right?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone who was much more left-wing than Joe Biden.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at the grocery store and I, you know, I grew up in Chicago.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I just had never lived in a town that was less than 2 million people,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: let alone a hundred thousand people.
• 28:28
  And I was just at the grocery store and some guy just came up
• 28:33
  to me and started
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: screaming at me for being like a crazy liberal wearing my Joe Biden hat.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a real like,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I am not only very much not in my blue city bubble,
• 28:44
  but like people just do have very fundamentally different
• 28:49
  opinions than me.
• 28:50
  And also a really fundamental different understanding of the
• 28:54
  democratic party than
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: which is again,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: like a very simplistic thing,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm a big believer.
• 28:59
  Like all of us just need to go move out to a rural state for a
• 29:02
  year or two.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it might help the democratic party in general.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I mean,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with that,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: although I also,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: to some level,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: I guess what I think,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think of myself as one of the most out-of-touch people on the planet.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up in Greenwich Village,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: and then I went to Harvard,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: and then I moved to Logan Circle,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: and I've just been here my whole life.
• 29:30
  I don't want to say I've never been to a small town or talked
• 29:33
  to a regular person,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: but you can just sort of think these things through,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: and it's like...
• 29:42
  So I was watching a bunch of people I know because I know a lot
• 29:46
  of moderate Democrats.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's my people.
• 29:49
  And Bernie Sanders was on Twitter,
• 29:52
  you know,
• 29:52
  clipping himself at a speech this morning.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:55
  And Bernie is doing his shtick where he's like,
• 29:58
  Democrats have betrayed the working class.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's time for the establishment to start listening.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 30:04
  And all these moderates are like mad at Bernie and they're
• 30:07
  bringing up like
• 30:08
  factually accurate points about Biden's policies and Bernie's
• 30:11
  support for them and
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: blah,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: blah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm saying back to them, OK, guys.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: But like we know that like the electorate really hated Joe Biden.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: So what Bernie is doing here,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Bernie,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: who I have a lot of disagreements with,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: on the issue of,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: did Joe Biden suck?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: He is just taking the position that most people hold to, right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, there is something to that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Bernie is somewhat dishonestly exaggerating the extent of his substantive
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: differences with Joe Biden,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: but his differences with Joe Biden,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: they weren't zero.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: He is choosing to lean into...
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: Something that voters agree with that, like, Biden was bad.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: I am different from Joe Biden, etc.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like it's been like,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: you saw this with Kamala on The View,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: but then you've seen it with everybody since the election.
• 31:08
  It's like pulling teeth to get a Democrat to act like Joe Biden
• 31:14
  was unpopular.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Harris, you know, she lost the election, but it was fairly close.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: But like Biden was like many points below her, right?
• 31:26
  Like you just – I don't think you need to like go to the
• 31:31
  grocery store and –
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: In Iowa.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because we're all doing these roundtapes.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, how did we lose somebody?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we know.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: We lost badly, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to act like a political party that lost.
• 31:46
  You might come up with a terrible idea of how to explain why
• 31:50
  you're different.
• 31:51
  But clearly,
• 31:51
  you should be coming up with something that it's like,
• 31:54
  I agree that this was bad.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm different in some kind of way.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: And...
• 32:01
  There's just something weird about powering forward as if you
• 32:10
  have no access to the
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: information that people didn't like Biden had.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought of my point because you brought up Ernie.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: one of the things,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: and I think that's fair,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that story is from 2020.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:22
  I'd be very interested to see how the community I lived in in
• 32:26
  Cedar Rapids moved to
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: the right in 2024.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that New York Times era was like crazy that way.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that we also found in our retrospective,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: was like one of the most effective
• 32:39
  ads for Harris this cycle was a really economic populist
• 32:46
  message and argument that
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: if you take a look at,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: and I,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: we have the AI tools now,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I could actually do this.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds a lot like a 2016 Bernie Sanders ad.
• 32:59
  And,
• 33:00
  you know,
• 33:00
  this is the thing that I think when you were talking about sort
• 33:03
  of
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know, this like understanding that the economy is king.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:08
  you could argue that Bernie has been doing that for like the
• 33:10
  last 10 years,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 33:12
  I think one of the things that is maybe something that
• 33:16
  progressives also need to
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: grapple with is just how,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:21
  differently the electorate prioritizes and views a lot of the
• 33:27
  social elements and
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: issues that are really fundamental to a lot of progressive views.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side, right, like,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think to your point of a lot of moderates,
• 33:35
  I think a lot of moderates would be really repelled at the idea
• 33:38
  that like Bernie
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: has an economic agenda that connects with people,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: but that is real,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:45
  I think is unfortunate when you look at what happened in 2024
• 33:50
  to your point of
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I enjoy working in polling and message testing.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: We actually have a lot of these answers.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think you bring up a really good point.
• 34:01
  We have to have the hard conversations about what we're going
• 34:03
  to prioritize and
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: what we're going to do with that information right now.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been a little distraught.
• 34:10
  It's sort of like how long I think that's been taking,
• 34:14
  but we'll get there.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I would say...
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: On that point,
• 34:21
  there are some encouraging signs when it comes to the
• 34:23
  reconciliation fight right
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: now.
• 34:24
  I think that you're seeing Democrats really prioritize these
• 34:29
  deep Medicaid cuts
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: that are really repellent to the American people.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: But we're also sort of seeing some of our worst instincts come out.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Blue Rose did some message testing with House Majority Forward recently.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:43
  one of the things that was outlined in the messaging guidance
• 34:47
  that I found a little
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: amusing was sort of this like,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: reminder to Democrats to like not lean into overly technical arguments.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: to your point of we are both very out of touch,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: like a lot of what we have to do is just also bring it back to basics.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, again, like it's the economy stupid.
• 35:07
  It is really fundamentally of like,
• 35:08
  how can we not lean into our better demons of like,
• 35:13
  trying to lean into these really overly technical inner party
• 35:16
  fights and whatnot
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: and focus on what are we even prioritizing?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are we here for?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm like,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 35:25
  would really encourage progressives or people I've worked with
• 35:29
  on left campaigns
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: to,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:31
  explore or engage with these conversations around abundance or
• 35:35
  to not be like,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: to hear the words popularism and shut down.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because to me,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: coming from my corporate marketing background,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I worked for an international restaurant company.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about it this morning that it would be weird
• 35:52
  for a international restaurant company to be fighting against
• 35:56
  like food trends,
• 35:57
  right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like if people don't want to buy burritos,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: you're not going to be like,
• 36:01
  let's really sell burritos harder because that will make people
• 36:05
  want to buy them.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: no,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: if people want,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:08
  have you seen the joke online of like every fast casual
• 36:11
  restaurant now just like
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: sells the bowl slop.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like different.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: But like, that's clearly where the consumer is right now.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it is important to understand, like it is not,
• 36:22
  Our job,
• 36:22
  I think,
• 36:23
  to fight against what the American people are telling us and
• 36:26
  asking us for.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is our job to,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:30
  provide the progressive vision for how we can answer those
• 36:34
  complaints in a way that
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: is obviously aligned with our values,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: but also just like helps the most people.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: like I really want us as a party to keep coming back to like,
• 36:46
  how can we tangibly change things right now with the set of
• 36:50
  cards that we have?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we improve our hand in 2026?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do we look at,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: not just winning back a House majority,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: but like actually taking back the Senate,
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: which is going to require,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of positions and candidates that might be incongruent with,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: what I as a super left Democrat who lives in Washington,
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: D.C.,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: might personally want to vote for.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: So let's take a break and then let's talk about some of those specifics.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds great.