Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Dear Marianne Vaatstra

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The Murder of Dear Marianne Vaatstra · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: In the early hours of May one, nineteen ninety nine,
0:11
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old girl disappeared while cycling home through
0:14
Speaker 1: the dark countryside in the northern Dutch province of Friesland.
0:19
Speaker 1: Later that morning, her body was discovered in a nearby field,
0:23
Speaker 1: and she was found to be the victim of a
0:25
Speaker 1: brutal murder. The crime sent shockwaves through the Netherlands and
0:30
Speaker 1: ignited years of speculation, protests, and political controversy. For more
0:36
Speaker 1: than a decade, the identity of the man responsible remained hidden,
0:41
Speaker 1: until eventually a massive DNA investigation changed everything. This is
0:48
Speaker 1: the story of Dear Mary Anne Vatstra.
0:53
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
0:56
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following.
1:04
Speaker 1: Material more mature audience listeners. I think I might be
1:29
Speaker 1: getting a tan. But the sun was out the other
1:32
Speaker 1: day and I think I might have gotten some sun.
1:34
Speaker 1: I might have a tan. Yeah, summer's here.
1:37
Speaker 2: I was at the doctor today and I wanted to
1:39
Speaker 2: get some blood work done and one of the things
1:41
Speaker 2: I wanted to test was vitamin D and they were
1:46
Speaker 2: just like, no, like, you're going to be deficient, deficient,
1:49
Speaker 2: There's no point just like, if you live in Canada,
1:52
Speaker 2: take Vitamin D.
1:52
Speaker 1: Pills, welcome to being Canadian.
1:55
Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, that's fine, but I probably
1:59
Speaker 2: should we should.
2:00
Speaker 1: I am taking Vitamin D.
2:01
Speaker 2: Okay, I am not, which is probably why half the
2:04
Speaker 2: time I feel so tired.
2:06
Speaker 1: Well, I've only been taking it for two days, so
2:09
Speaker 1: I just started.
2:09
Speaker 2: And you feel like a new person alive again, not.
2:12
Speaker 1: Really not yet. Wonder what does make me feel alive though?
2:17
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, boom, so good. There is another thing it does.
2:22
Speaker 1: But there is another thing that actually can make me
2:24
Speaker 1: and you feel alive, and it may be signing up
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Speaker 1: for Patreon, getting that behind the scenes content, the exclusive content,
2:31
Speaker 1: and our Patreon is being revamped very soon. We are
2:34
Speaker 1: almost done getting it revamped. So if you want the
2:37
Speaker 1: new you know tears that we're offering, great, But if
2:40
Speaker 1: you want the old ones, they're only going to be
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Speaker 1: available for so long. And we've had some cool people
2:45
Speaker 1: sign up this week, So shout out to Nurse Diesel,
2:48
Speaker 1: Sarah Gain, Stephanie Craig, Catherine Paulter, Rana Joiner, and Rachel
2:53
Speaker 1: who all signed up for Patreon.
2:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, so little applause.
2:58
Speaker 1: Applause because you guys are amazing and thank you for
3:01
Speaker 1: supporting the show. It means a lot.
3:03
Speaker 2: It means a lot.
3:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I went on a bit of an internet
3:10
Speaker 1: rabbit hole chase, if you will, to see if I
3:12
Speaker 1: could find a Dutch case, because I mentioned last time
3:15
Speaker 1: we should do one. So here we are.
3:18
Speaker 2: Well, we had a patron sign up suggested that we
3:21
Speaker 2: look into Dutch cases, so here we go exactly.
3:24
Speaker 1: So I went, did some googling, found one, and I
3:26
Speaker 1: found it. Rather. I think it's kind of prominent. It's
3:29
Speaker 1: hard because you know, different languages and stuff like that,
3:32
Speaker 1: it's hard to really find one that's like, it's hard
3:35
Speaker 1: to see if it's really dominant in North America versus
3:39
Speaker 1: you know, overseas and the Netherlands, that sort of thing.
3:42
Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of a prevalent story there,
3:45
Speaker 1: but it certainly isn't here in North America at the
3:47
Speaker 1: very least.
3:48
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well I haven't heard of it.
3:50
Speaker 1: Well you're too, Are you ready for this?
3:53
Speaker 2: I sure am.
3:54
Speaker 1: Well. In the far north of the Netherlands lies the
3:57
Speaker 1: province of Friesland. It's a small place known for its
4:00
Speaker 1: open farmland, narrow country roads, and small villages scattered across
4:05
Speaker 1: the flat countryside. Life here, well, it moves at a
4:08
Speaker 1: bit of a slower pace, especially rather than you know,
4:11
Speaker 1: going to the big Dutch cities. Now, people here knew
4:15
Speaker 1: their neighbors, families, they lived in that same communities for generations,
4:19
Speaker 1: and bicycles were one of the most common ways to
4:21
Speaker 1: get around. But before I get into deep I do
4:24
Speaker 1: want to warn you, well, I'm probably not going to
4:27
Speaker 1: do the best with names, but I'm going to do
4:30
Speaker 1: my best.
4:31
Speaker 2: I'm going to try your hardest.
4:32
Speaker 1: Yes, when it comes to the pronunciation of individual names
4:35
Speaker 1: and villages that sort of thing. And now, between the
4:38
Speaker 1: villages of Zagwestinde, Colum and Ving Cluster, quiet rural roads
4:44
Speaker 1: cut through fields, tree lines and canals all alike. At night,
4:49
Speaker 1: those roads could feel especially empty, long stretches of countryside
4:53
Speaker 1: with only the sound of wind and the occasional passing cyclist.
4:58
Speaker 1: It's the kind of environment that well Mary Anne Vatstra
5:03
Speaker 1: grew up in. She knew this very well. Mary Anne
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Speaker 1: was born on August tenth, nineteen eighty two, in the
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Speaker 1: city of lee Warden, but she spent her childhood in
5:13
Speaker 1: the village of Zaguest, Indy, which is known now as Doestrian.
5:19
Speaker 1: She was the youngest of six children in a very
5:21
Speaker 1: close knit Friezen family. Her father bach Vastra worked as
5:26
Speaker 1: a carpenter, while her mother, Mike Terpstra, while she managed
5:30
Speaker 1: the household. By the time Marianne was growing up, most
5:34
Speaker 1: of her older siblings were already beginning their own lives,
5:37
Speaker 1: which meant that she spent much of her youth surrounded
5:40
Speaker 1: by both family and a wide network of friends in
5:43
Speaker 1: the village. People who knew Marianne remembered her as being
5:47
Speaker 1: cheerful and energetic. She loved music, enjoyed singing, and, like
5:52
Speaker 1: many teenagers of the late nineteen nineties, while she spent
5:55
Speaker 1: time with friends talking about music, about relationships and the
5:59
Speaker 1: plans that they had imagined for their future. All around,
6:03
Speaker 1: she was known to be outgoing and social, someone who
6:05
Speaker 1: was rarely short of company. Mary Anne attended primary school
6:10
Speaker 1: in zaguest Indye before continuing her education at a Christian
6:14
Speaker 1: Mavo school in Damwood, which was a nearby village. Like
6:19
Speaker 1: many students in rural Friesland, she cycled two school each
6:23
Speaker 1: and every day. The bike path and quiet roads that
6:26
Speaker 1: connected the villages were just another normal part of daily
6:29
Speaker 1: life here, especially for young people who were growing up,
6:32
Speaker 1: and at sixteen years old, Marianne had already started working
6:36
Speaker 1: a part time job too, two afternoons a week, she
6:39
Speaker 1: worked at a local supermarket while finishing school. However, she
6:44
Speaker 1: had bigger plans beyond just the supermarket. Mary Anne had
6:48
Speaker 1: developed a strong interest in hairstyling and in fashion. She
6:52
Speaker 1: liked to experiment with different hair styles and often styled
6:55
Speaker 1: her own hair and that of her friends as well.
6:59
Speaker 1: After complete her exams, she was planning to attend a
7:02
Speaker 1: hairdressing school and eventually going to become a professional hairstylist.
7:07
Speaker 1: Marianne was simply a typical teenager in every sense of
7:11
Speaker 1: the word. Now every year on April thirtieth in the
7:14
Speaker 1: Netherlands they celebrated something called conningenidoc I hope I pronounced
7:19
Speaker 1: that right, I did my best, or something you can
7:22
Speaker 1: call Queen's Day. It was one of the biggest national
7:25
Speaker 1: holidays in the country, a day when towns and villages
7:28
Speaker 1: alike filled with music, markets, street parties and late night celebrations.
7:34
Speaker 1: Even small communities like those scattered across Friesland came alive.
7:38
Speaker 1: Local festivals were organized, bars stayed open late, and young
7:42
Speaker 1: people from nearby villages gathered to celebrate. In nineteen ninety nine,
7:47
Speaker 1: the celebrations in the village of Colum included the final
7:50
Speaker 1: evening of the Columber Dustagan, a local festival that drew
7:54
Speaker 1: crowds from across the region. For teenagers from the surrounding villages,
7:59
Speaker 1: this was a amazing It was music, friends, excitement and
8:03
Speaker 1: staying out late. Now, imagine yourself being a teenager at
8:07
Speaker 1: that time and having the chance to go out and
8:09
Speaker 1: do these things I'm picturing like local carnivals or reasons
8:12
Speaker 1: like Halloween, that sort of thing.
8:14
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it sounds awesome. It's your one moment to
8:18
Speaker 2: just like break free and enjoy your life exactly now.
8:22
Speaker 1: That night, sixteen year old Mary Anne made plans to
8:25
Speaker 1: meet up with her boyfriend Spencer, who was eighteen at
8:28
Speaker 1: the time, along with his friend Wheatze. Now the three
8:32
Speaker 1: of them spent the evening in Colomb moving through the
8:35
Speaker 1: festivities like many of the other young people in the area,
8:39
Speaker 1: and as the evening stretched on into the early hours
8:42
Speaker 1: of May first, the celebrations began to wind down. It
8:45
Speaker 1: was around one am that Marianne, Spencer, and Wheatze left
8:49
Speaker 1: colum together on their bicycles. Mary Anne rode in the
8:52
Speaker 1: back of Spencer's bike as they traveled toward boots and Posts,
8:55
Speaker 1: which was a village where the two young men lived.
8:58
Speaker 1: Once they reached boots and Posts separated, Spencer and wheat
9:01
Speaker 1: Sea stayed behind well. Mary Anne continued the rest of
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Speaker 1: the journey alone on a bike. Now, the plan had
9:08
Speaker 1: always been for her to head home, but her parents
9:11
Speaker 1: never wanted her traveling alone in the middle of the
9:14
Speaker 1: night like that.
9:15
Speaker 2: That's fair.
9:16
Speaker 1: Now, she knew the route well, and like many teenagers,
9:20
Speaker 1: she'd spent years cycling between surrounding villages to and from school,
9:24
Speaker 1: off going meet friends, that sort of thing. She knew
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Speaker 1: the area like the back of her hand. And it
9:30
Speaker 1: was some time after one am Marianne began that final
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Speaker 1: part of her trip, pedaling through the dark countrysides towards
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Speaker 1: her home where her family was waiting for her. Now,
9:41
Speaker 1: the road she took pass through a quiet farmland with
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Speaker 1: narrow rural paths, and at that hour the countryside was
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Speaker 1: nearly empty, and it should have just been a simple
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Speaker 1: short ride home. However, it wasn't because she would never
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Speaker 1: make it home.
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Speaker 2: Oh man, see, I just freaking hate stories like this,
10:02
Speaker 2: because that should be okay, it should be right. And
10:07
Speaker 2: I feel like it's stories like this that we've just
10:10
Speaker 2: learned that you can't do that kind of stuff really anymore,
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Speaker 2: and you're not safe potentially one hundred percent.
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Speaker 1: And I hate to be this person to point it out,
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Speaker 1: but the reality is, if it were a young man,
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Speaker 1: he might have made it home.
10:24
Speaker 2: Mm hm most likely. And I'm kind of assuming here
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Speaker 2: that it wasn't. It was just kind of like the
10:31
Speaker 2: person took a moment of opportunity.
10:34
Speaker 1: Well, that's certain to get into it, don't worry. Yeah,
10:37
Speaker 1: did you want to smack me across the face when
10:39
Speaker 1: I was saying that, No.
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Speaker 2: I knew, I knew it was coming. I was just
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Speaker 2: going to put it out there because it doesn't seem
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Speaker 2: like it would necessarily have been like targeted, I suppose.
10:47
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, well we'll talk all about it. Don't worry now.
10:51
Speaker 1: As the night passed and the morning of May first,
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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine began, mary Anne was nowhere to be seen.
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Speaker 1: At first, there may not have been any immediate panic.
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Speaker 1: You know, teenagers, especially on nights like this, sometimes stay
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Speaker 1: out a lot later than expected. And her parents were
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Speaker 1: probably just preparing to give their daughter a good scolding
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Speaker 1: when she got home.
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Speaker 2: Finally, or she could have been like stayed at a friend's.
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Speaker 1: House exactly, So that's kind of what might have been
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Speaker 1: in their mind, but they probably expected nothing more than that. Now,
11:21
Speaker 1: as the hours passed without her coming home, that's when
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Speaker 1: concerns began to grow because something was clearly wrong. And
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Speaker 1: it would be around eleven am that morning that Marianne's
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Speaker 1: body was discovered in a meadow near a wooded embankment
11:36
Speaker 1: along kenningwe Road, close to Ving Cluster. The field sat
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Speaker 1: just off the rural path one that was connected to
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Speaker 1: the surrounded villages. It was an isolated place that cyclists
11:47
Speaker 1: and locals would normally pass without a second thought. But
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Speaker 1: what they found this morning in this inconspicuous meadow, though it.
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Speaker 2: Was devastating, m some serious bullshit.
12:01
Speaker 1: Now. Police were quickly called to the scene and the
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Speaker 1: area was quickly secured as a crime scene. Marianne's body
12:07
Speaker 1: was found laying deep in the grass of the field,
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Speaker 1: and the evidence around her made it immediately clear that
12:13
Speaker 1: a violent crime had taken place. Investigators began documenting everything
12:19
Speaker 1: that they could see, every footprint, disturbance in the grass,
12:22
Speaker 1: every piece of potential evidence that might explain what had
12:24
Speaker 1: happened during that night. Now, the condition of the scene
12:28
Speaker 1: also told investigators that Marianne had been sexually assaulted along
12:32
Speaker 1: with being murdered. She had been strangled with her own
12:36
Speaker 1: bra and her throat had been cut. The sheer brutality
12:41
Speaker 1: of the attack alone shocked even experience investigators. Now, despite
12:46
Speaker 1: the horror at the scene, investigators found something very important
12:50
Speaker 1: clues and evidence like. For example, forensic teams collected multiple
12:55
Speaker 1: biological samples, including traces of blood and seamen that clearly
13:00
Speaker 1: belonged to the perpetrator. They also recovered a cigarette lighter
13:04
Speaker 1: bearing a Playboy logo near the scene. The lighter appeared
13:07
Speaker 1: to have been dropped during what they assumed was a struggle,
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Speaker 1: and it contained DNA that likely belonged to the attacker too.
13:14
Speaker 1: In fact, numerous traces of Marianne's body and clothing things
13:20
Speaker 1: that were recovered carefully were sent to the laboratory for
13:23
Speaker 1: analysis because they had DNA on them.
13:27
Speaker 2: Man, obviously this person is a nasty piece of shit.
13:30
Speaker 2: You can just tell freaking instantly.
13:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, news of the discovery spread quickly through the
13:35
Speaker 1: surrounding villages, and this is an area where word traveled fast,
13:39
Speaker 1: and by the end of the day the murder struck
13:41
Speaker 1: the region like a complete shockwave. For mary Anne's family,
13:46
Speaker 1: the loss was of course devastating. Only hours earlier, they
13:51
Speaker 1: had expected to hear from her return, see her walked
13:54
Speaker 1: through the door, and any moment, but instead they were
13:57
Speaker 1: confronted with the unimaginable reality that their youngest daughter had
14:01
Speaker 1: been brutally murdered while she was out alone and helpless
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Speaker 1: at night.
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Speaker 2: That's so sad. I'm assuming world word travels fast, but
14:10
Speaker 2: also things like this don't really happen.
14:13
Speaker 1: Definitely now, the grief quickly spread. Maryanne had been known
14:17
Speaker 1: to many people in the area through her job at
14:19
Speaker 1: the local supermarket, friends at school in nearby, and for
14:23
Speaker 1: the community, her death felt deeply personal. In the days
14:26
Speaker 1: that followed, the village it became very quiet, of course,
14:30
Speaker 1: but it was also the focus of national attention, and
14:33
Speaker 1: in that sense it boomed so loud. Journalists began arriving
14:37
Speaker 1: from across the Netherlands as news outlets covered the story extensively.
14:41
Speaker 1: The brutal nature of the crime, combined with the age
14:44
Speaker 1: of the victim and the mystery surrounding the attacker. It
14:47
Speaker 1: made the case one of the most widely discussed crimes
14:50
Speaker 1: in the country. When Marianne's funeral was held on May sixth,
14:54
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the community gathered to say goodbye, and
14:58
Speaker 1: during the procession, residents formed a human shield around the
15:02
Speaker 1: funeral cortege, protecting Marianne's grieving family from the cameras that
15:07
Speaker 1: gathered in the village. The gesture reflected the deep respect
15:11
Speaker 1: many locals felt for the family as they mourned the
15:14
Speaker 1: loss of their daughter.
15:15
Speaker 2: Oh that's like, oh, it breaks your heart, but it's
15:18
Speaker 2: also so nice, like so kind.
15:21
Speaker 1: And then just one day later, on May seventh, an
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Speaker 1: enormous silent march was held in Marianne's memory. And when
15:28
Speaker 1: I say enormous, I mean enormous. In total, an estimated
15:33
Speaker 1: twenty thousand people walked through the streets of zagwest Endy
15:38
Speaker 1: in silence, many carrying flowers or candles. For a village
15:42
Speaker 1: of only a few thousand residents, the turnout was extraordinary.
15:47
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really special.
15:48
Speaker 1: People actually traveled from across Friesland and beyond to take
15:51
Speaker 1: part in this walk to show their respect to their support,
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, ensuring they both expressed grief and well demanding
15:58
Speaker 1: justice right now. As the days passed, the murder continued
16:02
Speaker 1: to dominate headlines, and somewhere out there in the community,
16:06
Speaker 1: the person responsible for Marianne's murder was still free, and
16:11
Speaker 1: the search for that person was just beginning. In the
16:16
Speaker 1: days following the discovery of Marianne's body, many residents in
16:19
Speaker 1: the surrounding villages began searching for an explanation for the crimes.
16:23
Speaker 1: There wasn't yet one from the investigators and the police,
16:25
Speaker 1: so speculation began to spread, and it began to focus
16:29
Speaker 1: on a nearby asylum seeker center outside of Kolum Now.
16:33
Speaker 1: The facility is a place where people who have fled
16:36
Speaker 1: their home countries and lived temporarily. That's what this is.
16:39
Speaker 1: It housed refugees for several countries, including Iraq and Afghanistan,
16:44
Speaker 1: and it had already been subject of local debate even
16:46
Speaker 1: before the murder had occurred. But rumors were now beginning
16:50
Speaker 1: to circulate that the attacker must have come from inside
16:53
Speaker 1: this center. Some residents even claimed that the method used
16:56
Speaker 1: to kill Marianne, particularly the cutting of the throat, seemed
17:01
Speaker 1: something that did not fit what they believed was a
17:03
Speaker 1: quote Western crime. These claims, though unsupported by evidence, quickly
17:10
Speaker 1: spread through conversations in the community and in the local
17:14
Speaker 1: media discussions, and the asylum center itself became a focal
17:18
Speaker 1: point of public anger. Police in fact even increased security
17:23
Speaker 1: around the facility, fearing that violence could erupt between local
17:26
Speaker 1: residents and the asylum seekers living there. Riot police were
17:30
Speaker 1: placed on standby just in case protests turned into something
17:33
Speaker 1: more serious. Meanwhile, investigators were still in the early stages
17:38
Speaker 1: of the case. They had collected forensic evidence and began
17:41
Speaker 1: interviewing witnesses, but no definitive suspect had yet been identified.
17:46
Speaker 1: This is how the case sat as the months passed
17:48
Speaker 1: without an arrest. Frustration in the region continued to grow,
17:52
Speaker 1: and the murder of Marianne had left the community of
17:55
Speaker 1: Friesland shaken by the lack of answers, and it began
17:59
Speaker 1: to fuel anger and suspicion amongst residents, and the focus
18:03
Speaker 1: on that nearby asylum seeker center only intensified those feelings.
18:09
Speaker 1: Local residents increasingly voiced their belief that the killer must
18:13
Speaker 1: have come from the refugee facility, and the longer the
18:16
Speaker 1: investigation went without a breakthrough, the stronger the speculation became,
18:22
Speaker 1: and all of that tension reached a boiling point in
18:24
Speaker 1: October of nineteen ninety nine, during a municipal meeting in
18:28
Speaker 1: Coolum that was meant to discuss the opening of another
18:31
Speaker 1: asylum seeker center in the town. Instead of a calm
18:34
Speaker 1: public discussion, the meeting turned chaotic. A group of young
18:39
Speaker 1: protesters disrupted that gathering, shouting at officials and throwing eggs
18:44
Speaker 1: at the mayor. Even the anger that had been building
18:47
Speaker 1: for you know all this time spilled out into an
18:51
Speaker 1: open hostile situation, with some demonstrators openly accusing asylum seekers
18:57
Speaker 1: of being responsible for Marianne's murder without any evidence whatsoever.
19:02
Speaker 1: The protest quickly drew national attention, and at least one
19:05
Speaker 1: woman involved was later convicted of a racist offense for
19:09
Speaker 1: her role in encouraging the riots. But no matter what
19:13
Speaker 1: was going on, it did not change how investigators continued
19:17
Speaker 1: to do their work behind the scenes, because for them,
19:19
Speaker 1: the focus remained on evidence, interviews, forensic analysis, and the
19:24
Speaker 1: leads that might actually eventually point to the person who
19:28
Speaker 1: was in fact responsible.
19:30
Speaker 2: This does make sense, though, I mean, a sixteen year
19:32
Speaker 2: old getting murdered to this in this way is very emotional, right,
19:36
Speaker 2: So it is all of these people are kind of
19:40
Speaker 2: of course, the police are doing what they need to
19:42
Speaker 2: be done, but that doesn't help all of these emotions
19:45
Speaker 2: that everyone else is feeling. And you know, well, it
19:48
Speaker 2: couldn't have been one of us that did this, right, So.
19:51
Speaker 1: But the thing is you can't jump to those conclusions
19:53
Speaker 1: to sit here and say, well, it must be this
19:56
Speaker 1: group of people that is I mean, it's racist, that
20:00
Speaker 1: is what it is.
20:01
Speaker 2: Well, because often yeah, it's people like that you would
20:03
Speaker 2: never expect that do something like this very much. So
20:07
Speaker 2: be someone that they know, but they don't want to
20:11
Speaker 2: believe that.
20:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, But for them, they were just trying to find answers.
20:14
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a terrifying situation. So if you're like,
20:17
Speaker 1: fuck it, it must be someone who could it be
20:19
Speaker 1: on them? Yeah, just pointing a finger because you're scared.
20:24
Speaker 1: You're trying to resolve something in your.
20:27
Speaker 2: Mind, and it's kind of easy exactly.
20:30
Speaker 1: Now, don't get me wrong, it's not an excuse, but
20:33
Speaker 1: mentally it makes sense for people to try and find
20:36
Speaker 1: an answer exactly. Now, From the very beginning the murder
20:39
Speaker 1: of Marianne triggered a large scale police investigation involving detectives,
20:43
Speaker 1: friendsic specialists and officers who are working across multiple agencies.
20:47
Speaker 1: The brutality of the crime and the national attention it
20:50
Speaker 1: received meant that solving the case was a top priority.
20:54
Speaker 1: Police had began by reconstructing Marianne's final hours. Detectives interviewed
20:59
Speaker 1: people who had seen her during the Queen's Day celebration
21:01
Speaker 1: and column, including friends, witnesses at the festivals, and anyone
21:05
Speaker 1: who might have been traveling along the rural roads between
21:08
Speaker 1: the surrounding villages during that night. They tried to establish
21:11
Speaker 1: a clear timeline ofver moments and that was essential for them.
21:15
Speaker 1: In fact, in total, investigators conducted around one thousand witness interviews.
21:20
Speaker 1: In the early stages of this investigation, Every single possible
21:25
Speaker 1: lead was followed, whether it was people who had attended
21:28
Speaker 1: the celebrations, residents living on route, whatever. They pursued it.
21:35
Speaker 1: Even the smallest details such as a passing bicycle, a
21:38
Speaker 1: parked car, or an unfamiliar person in the area were
21:41
Speaker 1: considered potentially important pieces of information, and at that same time,
21:46
Speaker 1: police received hundreds of tips from the public. In total,
21:50
Speaker 1: about a hunt. About sorry five hundred leads were reported
21:54
Speaker 1: and examined. Some tips came from local residents who believed
21:57
Speaker 1: they'd seen suspicious behavior, and others were based on rumors
22:00
Speaker 1: or speculations circulating the community, things like that center right, well,
22:05
Speaker 1: there could.
22:05
Speaker 2: Probably have been a lot of suspicious activity on a
22:09
Speaker 2: night like that when literally everybody's out in a boat and.
22:12
Speaker 1: Everything's different about place right now. Either way, investigators had
22:16
Speaker 1: to carefully evaluate each piece of information to determine whether
22:20
Speaker 1: it had any real connection to the crime or not. Meanwhile,
22:23
Speaker 1: forensic specialists continued to examine the evidence collected from the
22:27
Speaker 1: crime scene too. The biological traces recovered from Marianne's body,
22:31
Speaker 1: particularly the DNA evidence from blood and seamen, offered investigators
22:35
Speaker 1: one of the most promising leads at the time. Though
22:39
Speaker 1: DNA analysis was already an established forensic tool, which is great,
22:44
Speaker 1: but it could only identify a suspect if a matching
22:48
Speaker 1: profile was already available for comparison, and for that reason,
22:52
Speaker 1: detectives began looking for individuals whose DNA could be tested
22:56
Speaker 1: against those samples that were recovered, and as the investigation
23:00
Speaker 1: continued through nineteen ninety nine, detectives began narrowing into potential suspects,
23:05
Speaker 1: anyone who might have been in the area that night
23:07
Speaker 1: or who could have possibly had a connection to Marianne
23:10
Speaker 1: or the crime scene. Anyone that fit that they became
23:13
Speaker 1: a person of interest. Some of these leads seemed promising
23:17
Speaker 1: at first, but one by one they fell apart. The
23:21
Speaker 1: first major arrest came in May of nineteen ninety nine,
23:25
Speaker 1: when police detained a thirty two year old man from
23:28
Speaker 1: d Westing, Marianne's own village. At the time, investigators believed
23:33
Speaker 1: he could potentially be linked to the crime, and the
23:36
Speaker 1: public hoped that the case might soon be solved. But
23:40
Speaker 1: when the man's DNA was compared to the biological evidence
23:43
Speaker 1: recovered from the scene, it was not a match, so
23:47
Speaker 1: with no physical evidence connecting him to the murder, he
23:50
Speaker 1: was released. This would become the first of several times
23:54
Speaker 1: investigators believed they might close the identity on the killer,
23:58
Speaker 1: only to have the lead collapse out from underneath them.
24:01
Speaker 1: Over time, a total of twelve suspects would be investigated
24:05
Speaker 1: and ultimately cleared through DNA testing, and one of the
24:08
Speaker 1: most controversial moments in the investigation involved a refugee from
24:12
Speaker 1: Iraq who had once lived at the asylum. Now guards
24:17
Speaker 1: from the center had reported that the man left the
24:20
Speaker 1: facility during the night Marianne was murdered and he had
24:24
Speaker 1: not returned, which immediately raised suspicion. Now the man in question, well,
24:31
Speaker 1: when investigators looked into it, he had already left the country, So,
24:36
Speaker 1: working with inner Pol, police tracked down the man in Istanbul.
24:41
Speaker 1: He was in Turkey and that's where he was arrested
24:43
Speaker 1: in October of nineteen ninety nine and questioned in connection
24:46
Speaker 1: with Marianne's death. But once again, the DNA evidence told
24:50
Speaker 1: the different story. It wasn't him and he was completely
24:54
Speaker 1: cleared as a suspect. As investigators struggled to identify who
24:59
Speaker 1: did this, the forensic evidence collected at the crime scene
25:02
Speaker 1: and continued to stand out as the strongest lead, but
25:06
Speaker 1: it didn't lead anywhere. All police needed to do was
25:09
Speaker 1: find the person whose DNA matched those samples, but that
25:12
Speaker 1: was easier said than done. So with that in mind,
25:15
Speaker 1: investigators decided to try something that was still relatively uncommon
25:19
Speaker 1: at the time. In December of nineteen ninety nine, police
25:24
Speaker 1: launched a DNA screening of local men living near the
25:27
Speaker 1: crime scene. The idea was simple. If the killer lived
25:31
Speaker 1: in the area, as investigators increasingly suspected, there was a
25:35
Speaker 1: chance that his DNA could be found by testing people
25:39
Speaker 1: from the surrounding village. Police asked one hundred and seventy
25:44
Speaker 1: men from the local community to voluntarily provide DNA samples
25:48
Speaker 1: for comparison with the evidence recovered from the field where
25:52
Speaker 1: the crime scene occurred. The response in the community was
25:56
Speaker 1: largely cooperative, and out of the one hundred and seventy
25:59
Speaker 1: men approached, one hundred and sixty two agreed to provide samples,
26:03
Speaker 1: allowing forensic specialists to begin comparing their DNA profiles to
26:07
Speaker 1: the one obtained from the crime scene. Now, each sample
26:11
Speaker 1: was carefully analyzed by forensic laboratories, with investigators hoping that
26:16
Speaker 1: one of these tests would finally produce the match that
26:19
Speaker 1: they'd been waiting for. But when the results came back,
26:23
Speaker 1: the outcome was disappointing. Not one of the DNA samples
26:27
Speaker 1: matched the profile of the unknown perpetrator. Now, despite the
26:32
Speaker 1: setback of none of the DNA samples matching, investigators now
26:36
Speaker 1: knew something important, and that was that the DNA evidence
26:39
Speaker 1: they had collected was reliable and capable of identifying the killer.
26:43
Speaker 1: If the right person could be found, they were not
26:45
Speaker 1: receiving a bunch of false results, and so investigators then
26:49
Speaker 1: reconsidered their strategy. One approach was to build a psychological
26:54
Speaker 1: and geographical profile of the killer. Investigators worked with forensic
26:59
Speaker 1: specialists and behavioral analysis to study the details of the crime.
27:03
Speaker 1: The location of the attack, the way it was carried out,
27:06
Speaker 1: and the fact that the killer appeared to just vanish
27:09
Speaker 1: without being seen. It all suggested certain things about the
27:12
Speaker 1: persons who was responsible, and one of the most important
27:15
Speaker 1: clues came from the location of the crime scene itself.
27:19
Speaker 1: Marianne had been attacked along a quiet rural road near
27:23
Speaker 1: Ving Cluster, in an area surrounded by farmland and small villages.
27:28
Speaker 1: The field where her body was found it wasn't a
27:31
Speaker 1: place someone unfamiliar with the region would simply stumble upon
27:36
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, so that meant that
27:38
Speaker 1: the attacker had either known the area or lived nearby
27:44
Speaker 1: to find the area rather easy. Now. At the same time,
27:48
Speaker 1: advances in forensic analysis allowed specialists to examine the DNA
27:52
Speaker 1: evidence in a little bit more greater detail. By analyzing
27:55
Speaker 1: genetic markers, scientists could sometimes determine the likely geographic background
28:01
Speaker 1: of a person who the DNA belonged to. In this case,
28:05
Speaker 1: the analysis suggested that the perpetrator's DNA profile was most
28:09
Speaker 1: consistent with someone of north Western European ancestry, which was
28:15
Speaker 1: huge for this case. No kidding, because at the time
28:17
Speaker 1: when public suspicion was heavily focused on the asylum seeker
28:21
Speaker 1: center from people from the Middle East or Central Asia,
28:25
Speaker 1: the genetic analysts will it pointed to a different direction entirely.
28:30
Speaker 1: It indicated that the killer was most likely a white
28:32
Speaker 1: Western European man who could possibly be someone local from
28:36
Speaker 1: the regent. Investigators also believed that the attack itself suggested
28:41
Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity rather than a carefully planned act,
28:45
Speaker 1: which is what you were alluding to earlier. Marianne had
28:49
Speaker 1: been traveling along the road late at night. They believed
28:53
Speaker 1: the killer may have encountered her by chance and acted impulsively.
28:57
Speaker 1: Putting these pieces together detectives a working profile. The suspect
29:03
Speaker 1: was likely male, white Western European, familiar with the local
29:08
Speaker 1: area and lived They figured roughly fifteen kilometers within the
29:13
Speaker 1: center of the crime scene.
29:14
Speaker 2: Probably even familiar with her. I have to just say,
29:17
Speaker 2: that's a pretty messed up impulse. Hey, to be driving
29:20
Speaker 2: by someone or viking by someone, walking by someone and
29:25
Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, that is messed up.
29:28
Speaker 1: I know. But now there is a problem. They had
29:32
Speaker 1: a working theory of who this could be as far
29:34
Speaker 1: as a profile goes, but the villages surrounding the area,
29:39
Speaker 1: the Zagwest Indy Colum being Closter, there were thousands of
29:43
Speaker 1: men who fit that description within these villages. So how
29:49
Speaker 1: do you find which one of those thousands of men
29:51
Speaker 1: could be the person? And it left investigators scratching their
29:55
Speaker 1: head trying to figure out who they can or how
29:58
Speaker 1: they can figure out who it is. And so as
30:00
Speaker 1: the investigation moved into the early two thousands the murder
30:03
Speaker 1: of Marianne, it began to shift from an active investigation
30:07
Speaker 1: into a case that refused to be solved, kind of
30:09
Speaker 1: like a cold case. They didn't know what to do
30:12
Speaker 1: or how to.
30:13
Speaker 2: Move on, which is really freaking sad, because this bastard
30:16
Speaker 2: could be living amongst.
30:17
Speaker 1: Them exactly now. At times it seemed as though the
30:20
Speaker 1: investigation might just fade away, but the case never disappeared.
30:26
Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, authorities briefly reopened the investigation
30:30
Speaker 1: hoping that new techniques or overlooked leads might produce a
30:33
Speaker 1: new breakthrough. Investigators reviewed the evidence again, revisiting earlier interviews
30:38
Speaker 1: and examining whether any new forensic methods could be applied
30:42
Speaker 1: to the biological traces collected from the crime scene. Still,
30:47
Speaker 1: the results were disappointing. The DNA evidence remained to be
30:50
Speaker 1: the strongest clue in the case, but without a matching
30:52
Speaker 1: profile to compare it against, the investigation just stalled once more. Eventually,
30:57
Speaker 1: the renewed inquiry was closed again, leaving the murder officially unsolved. Meanwhile,
31:04
Speaker 1: the story continued to live on in the public eye.
31:08
Speaker 1: And that is not the end of the case. I
31:10
Speaker 1: just wanted to fuck with you for a moment.
31:13
Speaker 2: I was about to fucking rage.
31:16
Speaker 1: Understandable because I'm like, what do you mean?
31:18
Speaker 2: That's it?
31:19
Speaker 1: Like, that is not it.
31:20
Speaker 2: We're just getting started here.
31:21
Speaker 1: And that is not the end of the story.
31:23
Speaker 2: There's more, Rick, Ben, you just increase my blood pressure.
31:27
Speaker 2: I swear to.
31:27
Speaker 1: God, that was my attempt. So I'm glad it weren't.
31:32
Speaker 2: Oh here. I was just like these investigators are like
31:34
Speaker 2: rocking it. That's what I was thinking about in my mind,
31:36
Speaker 2: Like you can't say they're you know, not really trying here,
31:40
Speaker 2: and then you pull that. Oh I wasn't ready for that.
31:42
Speaker 1: Okay, No, that's not I have plenty more to go.
31:45
Speaker 1: So should I continue?
31:47
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?
31:47
Speaker 1: Okay. So meanwhile, the story continued to live on in
31:50
Speaker 1: the public eye. Journalists and television programs kept running the case,
31:54
Speaker 1: asking why the person responsible for such a brutal crime
31:57
Speaker 1: had never been identified. But perhaps the most determined advocate
32:02
Speaker 1: for this whole situation for keeping the investigation alive was
32:06
Speaker 1: mary Anne's father, Bach Vastra. Now, for him, the case
32:10
Speaker 1: was never simply an unsolved crime. It was the unanswered
32:14
Speaker 1: question surrounding the brutal and tragic loss of his daughter.
32:18
Speaker 1: Over the years, Bach became increasingly vocal for the need
32:22
Speaker 1: of new investigative methods, particularly DNA research, that could identify
32:26
Speaker 1: this unknown killer. He repeatedly called on authorities to consider
32:30
Speaker 1: broader DNA testing and new forensic approaches that might reveal
32:34
Speaker 1: the identity hidden between the genetic evidence.
32:38
Speaker 2: Good for him, I like to hear that now.
32:41
Speaker 1: Through interviews, media appearances, and public statements, he pushed for
32:46
Speaker 1: the case to remain active, and his efforts played a
32:49
Speaker 1: significant role in ensuring that Marianne's murder was never allowed
32:53
Speaker 1: to fade into the background, and eventually the advances in
32:57
Speaker 1: forensic science that bach Vastra had been advocate for would
33:00
Speaker 1: begin to change the investigation in ways no one could
33:04
Speaker 1: have imagined when the case first began. Across Europe, researchers
33:10
Speaker 1: and forensic institutes were developing new methods that allowed DNA
33:13
Speaker 1: to be used not just for confirming suspects, but for
33:18
Speaker 1: generating investigative leads. One of the most promising techniques was
33:23
Speaker 1: known as familial DNA researching, which is very similar to
33:28
Speaker 1: something you're probably already aware of, which is genetic genealogy. However,
33:31
Speaker 1: in this case it uses voluntary or government databases. It's
33:35
Speaker 1: essentially the same practice, but how you obtain the DNA
33:39
Speaker 1: is different. So using this method, instead of looking for
33:43
Speaker 1: only an exact match, familial DNA analysis allowed investigators to
33:47
Speaker 1: search for partial genetic similarities that could indicate a biological
33:52
Speaker 1: relationship between the unknown perpetrator and someone whose DNA had
33:56
Speaker 1: been tested. Because certain DNA markers are passed down through
34:01
Speaker 1: male family lines, it became possible to identify relatives of
34:06
Speaker 1: unknown suspects. This opened a completely new path for solving
34:11
Speaker 1: cases where the perpetrator had never been directly identified. In
34:15
Speaker 1: the Netherlands, these developments s marked a legal and scientific debate.
34:19
Speaker 1: In fact, though using DNA in this way raised a
34:22
Speaker 1: lot of questions about privacy, consent, and the right of
34:26
Speaker 1: individuals whose genetic information might indirectly reveal family members connected
34:31
Speaker 1: to the crime. My personal opinion is good, well, yeah.
34:36
Speaker 2: I was just sitting here, like, who cares if it's
34:39
Speaker 2: gonna catch a freaking murder and get them off the streets.
34:42
Speaker 1: Exactly which lawmakers and forensic experts discussed whether the benefits
34:45
Speaker 1: of solving serious crimes outweighed those concerns, And I agree
34:48
Speaker 1: with them. They certainly do well.
34:50
Speaker 2: And honestly, if I had a family member that was
34:53
Speaker 2: a complete piece of shit garbage like this, i'd want
34:55
Speaker 2: or not, I.
34:56
Speaker 1: Kind of want to do like one of those ancestry
34:58
Speaker 1: dot com or something like that. Specifically, so there's a
35:01
Speaker 1: database of my DNA out there to help anyone in
35:04
Speaker 1: my family who might be a piece of shit that
35:06
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of, No kidding now. For years, this
35:09
Speaker 1: case was often mentioned in those debates, and if familial
35:13
Speaker 1: DNA researching or searching was permitted under Dutch law. It
35:17
Speaker 1: could potentially reveal relatives of the unknown attacker in this
35:20
Speaker 1: case and lead police closer to the identity. So when
35:23
Speaker 1: they're arguing whether this is ethical or not, this case
35:25
Speaker 1: was always brought up, and eventually, in April of twenty twelve,
35:29
Speaker 1: amendments to Dutch forensic legislation made it possible to use
35:33
Speaker 1: familial DNA analysis in criminal investigations. The new rules allowed
35:39
Speaker 1: police to search for genetic relationships within large groups of people,
35:43
Speaker 1: opening the door to investigative methods that had previously been
35:47
Speaker 1: impossible for detectives working on this case. The change represented
35:52
Speaker 1: the first real breakthrough in years. It meant, after more
35:56
Speaker 1: than a decade without answers, investigators finally had a new
35:59
Speaker 1: twour rule that could potentially identify mary Anne's killer. So
36:03
Speaker 1: on September twenty ninth, twenty twelve, police launched a massive
36:08
Speaker 1: DNA screening operation. This was in the region surrounding the
36:12
Speaker 1: crime scene, and the investigation focused on the rural area
36:15
Speaker 1: where Marianne had been attacked, particularly the villages within five
36:19
Speaker 1: kilometers of a radius of this crime scene. Now, men
36:24
Speaker 1: living in twelve nearby villages were invited to voluntarily provide
36:29
Speaker 1: DNA samples. That is very important that this is still
36:33
Speaker 1: a voluntary thing. And in total, more than eight thousand
36:37
Speaker 1: men were asked to participate in this screening. The scale
36:40
Speaker 1: of the operation alone was unprecedented. Now, it's important to
36:45
Speaker 1: clarify once again, voluntary, but authorities also emphasized the importance
36:51
Speaker 1: of the community cooperation for solving the long standing case.
36:55
Speaker 2: Okay, so these people who are doing this know that
36:58
Speaker 2: of the consequences too, correct.
37:00
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's what's happening is the police are saying,
37:02
Speaker 1: we need your DNA so we can do this DNA
37:05
Speaker 1: search and potentially find relatives. So your DNA might link
37:09
Speaker 1: us to the.
37:10
Speaker 2: Killer, and I would sign up for sure.
37:13
Speaker 1: And they're making it very very clear it's voluntary. However,
37:17
Speaker 1: they are pushing the fact that yes, this could change
37:20
Speaker 1: the case, so your cooperation, we would really fucking appreciate.
37:24
Speaker 1: It is essentially how they're going about it.
37:25
Speaker 2: Well, this is a long time that this case hasn't
37:28
Speaker 2: been solved. Like the poor family, I.
37:29
Speaker 1: Know now for many residents in the region, the murder
37:33
Speaker 1: had remained an unresolved wound for thirteen years. At this point.
37:36
Speaker 1: People still remember the shock of Marianne's death and the
37:39
Speaker 1: frustration of never knowing who was responsible, and so the
37:43
Speaker 1: voluntary response from the community was remarkable, to say the least.
37:48
Speaker 1: If they asked eight thousand men, how many people do
37:51
Speaker 1: you think volunteered to give their DNA?
38:00
Speaker 2: Thinking between seven thousand and seventy five hundred.
38:03
Speaker 1: Okay, not quite that much. It was about sixty six
38:05
Speaker 1: hundred to sixty seven hundred men ultimately agreed.
38:08
Speaker 2: Still really good, that is amazing.
38:10
Speaker 1: Very good. So they provided their DNA samples, allowing investigators
38:15
Speaker 1: to begin comparing their genetic profiles with the DNA evidence
38:18
Speaker 1: from the crime scene. And each sample was collected under
38:21
Speaker 1: controlled conditions, so it wasn't like, you know, they just
38:24
Speaker 1: spit in the bag or something something like that and
38:27
Speaker 1: mail it in.
38:29
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, what a massive amount
38:31
Speaker 2: of work this is like for an awesome benefit, but
38:34
Speaker 2: this is like the amount of jobs and shit this
38:35
Speaker 2: is probably creating is unreal massive.
38:38
Speaker 1: And each sample was collected, like I said, controlled conditions,
38:41
Speaker 1: with analyzed by forensic specialists in the Netherlands Forensic Institute,
38:45
Speaker 1: and the testing process involved examining the Y chromosome DNA,
38:49
Speaker 1: which has passed from father to son and can reveal
38:53
Speaker 1: genetic connections within the male family lines. So even if
38:57
Speaker 1: the killer himself had not provided a sample, a close
39:00
Speaker 1: mail relative could potentially produce a partial match which would
39:03
Speaker 1: lead investigators to the right direction. Now, handling such a
39:06
Speaker 1: large number of samples required very careful planning and advance analysis.
39:12
Speaker 1: Forensic teams worked methodically comparing each new DNA profile with
39:17
Speaker 1: the one obtained from the biological evidence collected in nineteen
39:20
Speaker 1: ninety nine. The process took time for weeks. Forensic scientists
39:27
Speaker 1: worked through the thousands of DNA samples that are being
39:29
Speaker 1: collected from men living near the crime scene. Each profile
39:33
Speaker 1: was carefully compared against the unknown DNA left behind in
39:37
Speaker 1: the field thirteen years ago. Then, about halfway through the analysis,
39:42
Speaker 1: investigators finally found what they were searching for. On November eighteenth,
39:50
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, the DNA profile taken from one of the
39:52
Speaker 1: volunteers produced a direct match with the biological evidence collected
39:59
Speaker 1: at the scene Marianne's murder, and the name attached to
40:03
Speaker 1: that DNA sample was a man by the name of
40:06
Speaker 1: Jasper Stirringa Now Jasper was forty five years old, a
40:12
Speaker 1: dairy farmer, living in the village of Aldwald, just two
40:15
Speaker 1: point five kilometers from the place where Marianne's body was
40:18
Speaker 1: found in nineteen ninety nine. For years, he had been
40:22
Speaker 1: living quietly in the same rural area where the murder
40:26
Speaker 1: had taken place, and he raised a family and worked
40:29
Speaker 1: the farms, and like thousands of other men in the region,
40:33
Speaker 1: Jasper had actually voluntarily provided a DNA sample during the
40:39
Speaker 1: mass screening. When I said it was a direct match,
40:43
Speaker 1: he had volunteered his DNA. They had his DNA and
40:46
Speaker 1: compared it to the DNA found of the crime scene.
40:48
Speaker 2: Okay, so he did it. He did it serious.
40:52
Speaker 1: It's his DNA at the crime say.
40:54
Speaker 2: I thought, that's kind of what that meant. But then
40:57
Speaker 2: I'm like, why is he volunteering then, Like that doesn't
41:01
Speaker 2: make any sense.
41:01
Speaker 1: Well, investigators kind of knew that, like, if the killer
41:05
Speaker 1: refused to cooperate, the new techniques that they're after is
41:08
Speaker 1: probably going to identify him anyways through close relatives. So
41:13
Speaker 1: face with that reality, the situation was, Jasper just simply
41:17
Speaker 1: decided to submit his own DNA along with anyone else's
41:19
Speaker 1: because he knew he was done for.
41:21
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know if I dislike that or
41:26
Speaker 2: like that. I don't know. I'm kind of at a
41:29
Speaker 2: loss there because at first I was like, did he
41:31
Speaker 2: fucking forget what he did?
41:33
Speaker 1: No, he didn't forget. He was cornered, and he's like, well,
41:38
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get caught anyways. Fuck it.
41:40
Speaker 2: Someone from his family probably got tested and so it
41:44
Speaker 2: was just a matter of time. Basically okay, but still
41:48
Speaker 2: I feel like it's still odd that he went and
41:50
Speaker 2: did it.
41:50
Speaker 1: But it is odd. And don't get me wrong, I
41:53
Speaker 1: hate this guy. He's a douchebag, but you know me,
41:56
Speaker 1: I like to play Devil's advocate advocate right at the
41:59
Speaker 1: very least, he manned up at the end. I will
42:02
Speaker 1: give him credit for that one single thing. That does
42:05
Speaker 1: not forgive anything he fucking did.
42:07
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think I give him credit
42:09
Speaker 2: for that because I'm trying to figure out my head
42:13
Speaker 2: why he did that. Like, I think there was some
42:14
Speaker 2: sort of other reason he was remaining in control. I
42:18
Speaker 2: guess when he knew that his control was ending.
42:22
Speaker 1: From my research, I don't think so it's a possibility.
42:25
Speaker 1: It's a possibility, but from my research, it seems like, yeah,
42:29
Speaker 1: he his hands were tied so hmm.
42:32
Speaker 2: And so he would have been like a thirty year
42:34
Speaker 2: old man when he did this or something around that age. Yeah,
42:38
Speaker 2: that's that is Oh my gosh, just disturbing.
42:44
Speaker 1: You're vibrating.
42:45
Speaker 2: Really, I'm like, this case is quite upsetting me. I'm
42:48
Speaker 2: not gonna lie. Like it's very interesting, very sad and
42:51
Speaker 2: very maddening.
42:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head with all
42:54
Speaker 1: those now. Once the match was confirmed, police moved quickly.
42:58
Speaker 1: That very same day, they arrived at Jasper's farm in
43:01
Speaker 1: Aldwald and arrested him for the rape and murder of
43:05
Speaker 1: Marianne Vastra. After more than thirteen years, the investigation had
43:11
Speaker 1: the one that had once seemed impossible to solve. It
43:13
Speaker 1: had finally identified a suspect. However, the investigation wasn't quite
43:18
Speaker 1: finished yet. Detectives still needed to confirm exactly what had
43:22
Speaker 1: happened on the night that she was killed in May
43:26
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine. So after the arrest on November eighteenth,
43:31
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, Jasper Stringa was taken into police custody and
43:36
Speaker 1: questioned about the events on that night. At first, he
43:39
Speaker 1: didn't say much, but that changed quickly within minutes of
43:44
Speaker 1: meeting with his lawyer, Jasper decided to confess, and in
43:48
Speaker 1: the weeks that followed, investigators worked with Jasper as he
43:51
Speaker 1: described everything that had happened. According to his accounts, he
43:57
Speaker 1: had been cycling along the rural road near Ving and
44:01
Speaker 1: then he saw mary Anne riding ahead of him. He
44:04
Speaker 1: said he had never met her before. He didn't recognize her.
44:07
Speaker 1: He didn't know who she was, but when he noticed
44:10
Speaker 1: that she was riding alone on the road that night,
44:13
Speaker 1: he claimed, a sudden thought crossed his mind. Quote he
44:18
Speaker 1: told himself, your mind.
44:20
Speaker 2: Tonight, Oh gosh, what the shit?
44:24
Speaker 1: So eventually he caught up to mary Anne along the
44:27
Speaker 1: road and forced her off her bicycle and threatened her
44:30
Speaker 1: with a pocket knife. Then he dragged her into a
44:34
Speaker 1: nearby field. There, Jasper admitted that he raped mary Anne twice.
44:40
Speaker 1: After the assault, he attempted to strangle her using her
44:43
Speaker 1: own bra and when he realized that she was still breathing,
44:47
Speaker 1: he pulled out the knife again and cut her throat
44:51
Speaker 1: several times. In his statement, he said he did this
44:55
Speaker 1: because he feared she would identify him if she survived.
45:01
Speaker 1: Jasper told investigators that after the attack, he left her
45:04
Speaker 1: lifeless body alone in the meadow and simply returned to
45:08
Speaker 1: his normal life, keeping the secret of what he had
45:10
Speaker 1: done for more than a decade. During that time, he
45:14
Speaker 1: got married, he raised children, and continue working as a
45:19
Speaker 1: farmer in the same rural region where the crime had
45:22
Speaker 1: taken place. According to him, he had also considered confessing
45:26
Speaker 1: several times over the years, but he ultimately chose to
45:30
Speaker 1: remain silent because he did not want his children to
45:32
Speaker 1: grow up knowing that their father was imprisoned for murder.
45:36
Speaker 2: Well, maybe he shouldn't have had kids.
45:38
Speaker 1: Maybe he shouldn't have fucking raped and murdered someone too.
45:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that too, But also he should not have, like,
45:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, had children or even been able to
45:47
Speaker 2: have this like little happy life or whatever he did
45:50
Speaker 2: for twelve years.
45:51
Speaker 1: I know. But when the mass DNA investigation began in
45:56
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, Jasper realized that it was only a matter
45:59
Speaker 1: of time where the truth was uncovered. Even though he
46:03
Speaker 1: didn't go to the police himself, he waited for the
46:07
Speaker 1: investigation to reach him, but he still submitted his own
46:10
Speaker 1: DNA voluntarily, and on the evening of November eighteenth, twenty twelve,
46:15
Speaker 1: when officers arrived at his farm, the secret he had
46:17
Speaker 1: carried for more than thirteen years finally came to an end,
46:22
Speaker 1: and so the case against him moved into the Dutch
46:24
Speaker 1: court system and the proceedings began on March twenty eighth,
46:27
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, in the city of Leeuwarden, the capital of
46:32
Speaker 1: the province of Friesland. Interest in the trial was intense. Journalists,
46:36
Speaker 1: members of the public, and Marianne's relatives all filled the
46:39
Speaker 1: courtroom as the details of the crime were presented in
46:42
Speaker 1: full for the first time. During the hearings, prosecutors outlined
46:47
Speaker 1: the evidence that connected Jasper's STRINGA to the murder, and
46:51
Speaker 1: central to their case was, of course, the DNA match
46:54
Speaker 1: to the genetic profile recovered from Marianne's body in the
46:57
Speaker 1: crime scene, also Jasper's earlier confession and also formed a
47:00
Speaker 1: key part of the proceedings in court. Jasper even repeated
47:04
Speaker 1: the accounts himself about how he encountered mary Anne cycling
47:07
Speaker 1: along the road in the early hours of May one,
47:10
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine. He described following her, threatening her, and
47:14
Speaker 1: dragging her into the field where he attacked and raped
47:18
Speaker 1: and killed her. The courtroom testimony was very difficult for
47:22
Speaker 1: everyone to hear, but especially for that of Marianne's family.
47:26
Speaker 1: For years, they had known only fragments of what had
47:29
Speaker 1: happened to their daughter, but now the full sequence of
47:33
Speaker 1: events was being laid out publicly for them to hear.
47:37
Speaker 1: Prosecutors heard his accounts and argued that the brutality of
47:40
Speaker 1: his crimes, his attack, it justified a severe sentence. They
47:45
Speaker 1: requested that the court impose a twenty year prison term,
47:48
Speaker 1: the maximum punishment they believed was appropriate under the circumstances.
47:53
Speaker 1: When it came to the defense, they didn't dispute the
47:56
Speaker 1: DNA evidence, they didn't dispute the confession. I mean, how
47:59
Speaker 1: could they. But what they did do was focus on
48:01
Speaker 1: Jasper's mental state, like every defense does when it comes
48:05
Speaker 1: down to the wire and the circumstances around his crime. Right,
48:08
Speaker 1: That's all they could do. But in the end, the
48:11
Speaker 1: court heard both sides and on April nineteenth, twenty thirteen,
48:15
Speaker 1: the court delivered its verdict. Jasper Stringa was found guilty
48:21
Speaker 1: and convicted of the rape and murder of Marianne Vostra,
48:26
Speaker 1: and as a result, the judge sentenced him to eighteen
48:30
Speaker 1: years in prison.
48:32
Speaker 2: That is not enough time.
48:34
Speaker 1: Eighteen years, Yeah.
48:36
Speaker 2: That just seems like nothing. To me, I just I'm
48:39
Speaker 2: just having trouble understanding who the fuck has thoughts like
48:44
Speaker 2: this and then just goes and acts them out and
48:48
Speaker 2: then just lives their life after that. Like, did he
48:51
Speaker 2: not like he has to be a terrible personally he
48:54
Speaker 2: had to have done other terrible shit too or something
48:56
Speaker 2: I don't know.
48:57
Speaker 1: I don't know.
48:58
Speaker 2: And also did his did her family know him? Did
49:01
Speaker 2: the parents know him? Not?
49:03
Speaker 1: As far as I'm aware, no, okay, But again this
49:06
Speaker 1: was a little difficult to research because language barriers and
49:08
Speaker 1: all this sort of thing. But as far as I
49:11
Speaker 1: could find, no, he was.
49:12
Speaker 2: Not known to the family, which I do think is
49:15
Speaker 2: good because could you imagine if if they were right,
49:17
Speaker 2: if they were like friends or something. I know, but
49:20
Speaker 2: still just terrible.
49:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when you think about it too, he got
49:25
Speaker 1: eighteen years in prison, he has five years left.
49:30
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, and like because he was only in
49:34
Speaker 2: his forties yep, so he could still just kind of
49:37
Speaker 2: oh my, okay, okay, that is no that it has
49:41
Speaker 2: to be life.
49:42
Speaker 1: I agree, But unfortunately that's not what he received. It's
49:46
Speaker 1: he received a very lenient sentence.
49:48
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it should almost be eighteen plus the
49:51
Speaker 2: freaking twelve additional years he got right where he got
49:55
Speaker 2: to live his freaking life for those twelve years. That
49:57
Speaker 2: should be like added on top of his sentence. In
49:59
Speaker 2: my opinion, I.
50:00
Speaker 1: Think it should just be like twenty five years minimum
50:03
Speaker 1: before he even gets parole. And then if I don't
50:06
Speaker 1: think you should even get yeah.
50:07
Speaker 2: Just life, like if you do something to this extent,
50:10
Speaker 2: like you just don't get to yeah, just life ever again.
50:13
Speaker 1: Lock them up, let them rot now. For Marianne's family,
50:16
Speaker 1: the sentence brought a form of justice, though it could
50:19
Speaker 1: never really undo what had happened. In many ways, the
50:22
Speaker 1: case left a very lasting mark on the Dutch society
50:25
Speaker 1: and the justice system, and the way forensic science is
50:28
Speaker 1: used in criminal investigations. One of the most significant legacies
50:32
Speaker 1: of the case is its role in advancing the use
50:34
Speaker 1: of DNA investigation techniques in the Netherlands. The mass DNA
50:38
Speaker 1: screening conducted in twenty twelve, where thousands of men voluntarily
50:42
Speaker 1: submitted samples, became one of the first large scale uses
50:46
Speaker 1: of familial DNA analysis in the country. The investigation demonstrated
50:51
Speaker 1: how genetic technology could be used not just to confirm suspects,
50:55
Speaker 1: but to actively identify unknown perpetrators in cases that had
50:59
Speaker 1: gone unsolved for years. And I do want to actually
51:03
Speaker 1: pause just for one brief moment, because they requested DNA
51:08
Speaker 1: from eight thousand men approximately, and approximately six thousand, six
51:13
Speaker 1: hundred and so we'll say six six hundred and fifty. Okay,
51:16
Speaker 1: just you have six six hundred and fifty good men
51:21
Speaker 1: confirmed good men out there in the world. Listening to
51:24
Speaker 1: true crime, it's very easy to think there's so many
51:27
Speaker 1: people out there that are sick, deranged, who are fucked up,
51:30
Speaker 1: who will attack me. And I'm I'm a man, but
51:32
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend it's not the reality. Men
51:35
Speaker 1: are often the perpetrators, and it's easy to look and
51:38
Speaker 1: say men are scum, men can do this. There's good
51:42
Speaker 1: people out there. There's good men out there too, don't
51:45
Speaker 1: forget that. But still you gotta be careful regardless.
51:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's true that out of eight thousand that
51:51
Speaker 2: many men went in were like, no, like, let's try
51:54
Speaker 2: to get this solved. And to most of them, you know,
51:57
Speaker 2: it had happened well to all of them, and it had
51:58
Speaker 2: happened so long ago, probably wasn't even on their mind
52:01
Speaker 2: or anything this case, right, exactly, so it does speak volume.
52:05
Speaker 1: Yes, the majority of humans are still good now. For
52:09
Speaker 1: Marion's family, though the years between her death and the
52:12
Speaker 1: arrest of her killer had been filled with grief and uncertainty,
52:15
Speaker 1: her father Bach Vastra, had played a crucial role in
52:18
Speaker 1: keeping the case in the public eye. He repeatedly called
52:21
Speaker 1: for expanded DNA research things that could identify an unknown attacker,
52:26
Speaker 1: and his persistence helped fuel national debate around forensic legislation
52:30
Speaker 1: and the legal challenge changes that eventually followed in the
52:33
Speaker 1: twenty twelve DNA screening well. They were partially influenced by
52:36
Speaker 1: that decision, and in recognition of his efforts to push
52:40
Speaker 1: for greater transparency and new investigative tools, Bach was awarded
52:45
Speaker 1: with I'm going to get this wrong, but I'm going
52:47
Speaker 1: to do my best here Mashavilli Prize in twenty thirteen,
52:52
Speaker 1: which is an award given for achievements in public communication.
52:56
Speaker 1: The case now also left a lasting cultural memory in
53:00
Speaker 1: Friesland as well. In two thousand and four, several years
53:03
Speaker 1: before the killer was identified, the memorial of Marianne was
53:07
Speaker 1: unveiled in Zagwest Indy. The monument was designed by an
53:11
Speaker 1: artist named hans Yotu, and it served as a place
53:15
Speaker 1: where people can remember the young girl for whose life
53:18
Speaker 1: ended so tragically. Now, during the legal proceedings after Jasper's conviction,
53:23
Speaker 1: Marianne's sister Wilma Vastra made a statement that captured how
53:27
Speaker 1: the family wished the public to remember her. Rather than
53:30
Speaker 1: referring to the story simply as the marian Vostra case,
53:35
Speaker 1: she asked people to remember the person behind the headlines.
53:39
Speaker 1: Instead of focusing on the crime. She said, people should
53:42
Speaker 1: talk about leave Marianne, which, if I said that right,
53:48
Speaker 1: translates to dear Marianne. More than two decades after the
53:54
Speaker 1: night that she was killed on the rural road have passed,
53:57
Speaker 1: Marianne's story still remains one of the most significant criminal
54:00
Speaker 1: investigations in the Netherlands. It is remembered not only for
54:04
Speaker 1: the tragedy of the crime itself, but also for the
54:06
Speaker 1: long search for justice that followed, and for the scenic
54:11
Speaker 1: breakthrough that finally revealed the truth about how dear Marianne
54:17
Speaker 1: lost her life. And that's the story of dear Marianne Fostra.
54:24
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, you know, why can't it be like
54:28
Speaker 2: people who like the guy I can't even Jasper. Why
54:31
Speaker 2: can't it be like piece of shit Jaspers that get
54:35
Speaker 2: murdered like this or something, right, And it's literally the
54:38
Speaker 2: most like innocent, sweet person. That's how I'm kind of
54:42
Speaker 2: picturing her. She seemed like she was a light. You know,
54:45
Speaker 2: she had goals and ambition, ambitions and had like a
54:49
Speaker 2: lot of friends.
54:50
Speaker 1: And well, the thing is too and I don't want
54:53
Speaker 1: to downplay mary Anne. I'm we have a tendency and
54:57
Speaker 1: true crime to romanticize people, but we have every right
55:02
Speaker 1: to do so. Because Marianne had a light. You have
55:07
Speaker 1: a light. I have a light. It's just so unfortunate
55:11
Speaker 1: that that light gets turned on to see that person
55:15
Speaker 1: once they pass. Yeah, if only we could actually see
55:18
Speaker 1: that light in the person every day, Notice that person
55:22
Speaker 1: for what they're trying to do, for what they're struggling through,
55:25
Speaker 1: for what their hopes and dreams are, for what they
55:27
Speaker 1: do for those around them and then the community. We
55:30
Speaker 1: only tend to see that after the fact.
55:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I do have to say, Jasper will never
55:36
Speaker 2: have a light.
55:37
Speaker 1: No, you know what I mean, right, Like most people
55:40
Speaker 1: have a light, and most people's light is never noticed.
55:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, no, and anyone that has experienced, like death
55:47
Speaker 2: of anyone that's close to them or whatever. You do
55:51
Speaker 2: kind of put hold them on a pedestal to some degree, right,
55:56
Speaker 2: But it's okay to take that they should be there too, Yes,
56:00
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's kind of yeah, it's tough.
56:02
Speaker 1: Well when we say though, it's it's always these people
56:05
Speaker 1: with this light that unfortunately are lost, because everyone has
56:10
Speaker 1: a light. We all deserve to live, you know what
56:13
Speaker 1: I mean?
56:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean and if if this was reversed too,
56:17
Speaker 2: like Jasper would haven't if he died at that age
56:21
Speaker 2: or whatever, he wouldn't have been a complete piece of shit.
56:23
Speaker 2: Yet I guess he didn't.
56:24
Speaker 1: He didn't live long enough to become the douche canoe
56:27
Speaker 1: that he was. Yes, if that was the case, but.
56:29
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just also hope that he does
56:32
Speaker 2: not see the light of day again.
56:34
Speaker 1: Jasper is a douche canoe. Jasper deserves to rot. I
56:37
Speaker 1: hope something happens to him while he is in prison,
56:40
Speaker 1: that he actually stays there. And I hope that we
56:43
Speaker 1: can remember Marianne for the light that she was.
56:46
Speaker 2: Dear Marianne, Dear Marianne.
56:50
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for listening today. I hope you understand
56:52
Speaker 1: what I mean when I'm saying that everyone has a light,
56:54
Speaker 1: not just Marianne. I'm not trying to snuff hers or
56:57
Speaker 1: make hers any more dull. I'm just saying we should
57:00
Speaker 1: look for our own light and everyone around us as well,
57:03
Speaker 1: try and lift those up around you. So maybe maybe
57:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you guys homework. Just notice someone
57:09
Speaker 1: around you for who they are this week. Look at
57:12
Speaker 1: them and recognize what they're trying to do, what they
57:14
Speaker 1: hope to aspire to do, and recognize them for that light.
57:17
Speaker 2: You're getting really sappy over.
57:19
Speaker 1: I am getting sappy today. I'm gonna leave it there,
57:22
Speaker 1: all description stuff.
57:23
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, someone complimented me on
57:25
Speaker 2: my eyebrows today, and I thought that was pretty dope.
57:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, give someone a compliment, recognize them for what they.
57:30
Speaker 2: Are, Yeah, because it was such a random encounter, right,
57:33
Speaker 2: and it was cool that they noticed something that I
57:37
Speaker 2: like on myself and they took the minute to say it,
57:40
Speaker 2: which sounds like so vain, but you know what I mean,
57:42
Speaker 2: It's just a little compliment, right that they chose to express.
57:46
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm thinking we should try and do.
57:48
Speaker 1: You know, compliment someone, notice about someone something, or ask
57:53
Speaker 1: a question. Be interested you know. So anyways, you guys
57:57
Speaker 1: are amazing. I hope your light shines brightered this week too,
58:01
Speaker 1: But anyways, until next time, stay wicked
59:00
Speaker 2: Aboo Embo