Latest / San Joaquin Sound / Billy Haynes: From East Bakersfield Bass Legend to Worldwide Star

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Billy Haynes: From East Bakersfield Bass Legend to Worldwide Star · San Joaquin Sound

• 0:01
  Thank you. This is the San Joaquin Sound Podcast.
• 0:51
  I'm your host, AJ Rodriguez. This podcast is
• 0:55
  about music in Bakersfield and the surrounding
• 0:57
  San Joaquin Valley. Today, I'm here with Billy
• 1:00
  Haynes, a talented bassist, vocalist, and sometimes
• 1:03
  guitarist. He had an incredible career from playing
• 1:06
  here in Bakersfield with his band, The Original
• 1:08
  Souls, to touring the world with Tina Turner,
• 1:11
  Lou Rawls, Pressure Point. playing the Hollywood
• 1:14
  Bowl, Carnegie Hall, and even a Cambodian orphanage.
• 1:18
  Good one, man. So before we get into your career,
• 1:22
  let's go back to where it started. Your great
• 1:24
  -grandfather was a guitarist, right? Yes, it
• 1:26
  was. What was he like? He was sort of the gut
• 1:29
  -bucket blues guy. He was a church guy. Oh, yeah?
• 1:32
  But he really played that Lightning Hopkins -style
• 1:37
  guitar with the thumb pick and... Oh, that's
• 1:41
  cool. Yeah, it was quite interesting. He was
• 1:45
  the guitarist for the Church of God and Christ
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  on Brundage and King Street. That's cool. What
• 1:51
  was his name? E .L. Smith, Elijah Smith. And
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  the thing about it back in those days is that
• 2:00
  the band used to rehearse at our house. And I
• 2:04
  used to get upset because they would mess with
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  my cartoon time. But little did I know that the
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  influences of their music were influencing me
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  as a young fella. I appreciate that, that it
• 2:18
  happened. That's awesome. I watched a short interview
• 2:22
  you did with CSUB, and I noticed at the beginning
• 2:25
  you were playing the song Grandma's Hands by
• 2:28
  Bill Withers. I think because of your childhood,
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  that must have a special meaning, that song to
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  you, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Actually,
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  it was my great -grandmother. She raised me,
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  and the lyrics to that song were pretty much
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  like she was. She was always my rock, my anchor.
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  And, you know, she played the tambourine. That's
• 2:56
  cool. As well. So that's why the song means a
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  lot to me. It means a lot to me, too, because
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  it reminds me of my grandma, Rodriguez. And a
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  lot of the things in the song also mirror how
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  she was, her personality. And, you know, even
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  it says in the song, you know, Billy, don't you
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  run too fast. And that's your name, too. Might
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  fall on a piece of glass. Yeah. That's it. Yeah,
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  for sure. Everywhere I do it, I mean, from Europe
• 3:22
  to America, people can relate to the song. Yeah.
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  So it's a great song. What was your grandma like?
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  What kind of music did she like? She was part
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  of the church as well. And so it was all gospel
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  music back in the day in our home. So we had
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  an upright piano, and she played piano, and she
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  sang, and she played tambourine. And they were
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  very much a part of the church. So there was
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  always, like I said, the band rehearsing there,
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  and then they would have prayer meetings, and
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  they would sing. So it was a big influence on
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  me coming up. So you grew up in the 50s and 60s.
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  On the podcast, we talked only a little bit about
• 4:03
  that era in regards to country music. But what
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  was growing up in Bakersfield like for you in
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  the 50s and 60s? Well, for me, growing up in
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  Bakersfield was quite an adventure. I was a different
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  kind of guy. I had a bicycle. And so by the time
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  I was eight years old, I was selling papers down
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  downtown Bakersfield. Wow. And I used to, I was
• 4:30
  kind of a, I was hard to handle. But I remember
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  going to the El Tejon Hotel back in those days.
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  Where was that at? That was on the corner of
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  Chester and Truxton. Cool. The El Tejon Hotel.
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  And that's where they recorded, that's where
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  actually KERO Channel 23. had their studios.
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  Oh, yeah. And I used to go and sneak in and watch
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  the Cousin Herb show. Oh, cool. Live recorded
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  then. Right. That's cool. As they were recording
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  the show. And I always went to the Weatherby's
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  Telethon, which was hosted by Cousin Herb. Oh,
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  okay. And I used to actually get up on stage.
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  He would have people come up on stage and sing,
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  and I'd jump. I was pretty wild. And with my
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  bicycle, I could get all over Bakersfield. Sometimes
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  the bicycle is the ticket to get everywhere.
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  It was my ticket to freedom, bro. Back then,
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  Lakeview was part of the Mayflower District,
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  is what they call it now. And that was during
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  a time of segregation, right? How you lived through
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  that, what was that like? Well, I mean, it was
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  obvious that we couldn't go down Edison Highway.
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  to any of those places, and we certainly couldn't
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  go to the Blackboard or Trouts or anything like
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  that. But, I mean, that was never anything that
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  I wanted to do because that's not the style of
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  music I like. I mean, there's two incidents in
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  my childhood that I remember vividly where white
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  people would come into our neighborhood, and
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  I remember, you know, being called the N -word
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  and having some... white guy drive by real fast
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  and i got hit in the head with a pork chop ball
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  oh my gosh and then another time a white guy
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  came you know how kids are in the streets you
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  know especially back in those days because there
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  was no internet or anything and uh he poured
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  milk over my head when i went up to the car that
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  kind of stuff i mean it was a lot of that and
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  then especially during the christmas parade you
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  know you had to It was after dark, and then you'd
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  have to be real careful getting out of the white
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  community to get back across Union Avenue. But,
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  I mean, I was used to it because I was on my
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  bike all the time, but I was always weary of
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  cars, especially of younger people. It's tough,
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  man. I read you got to see James Brown when you
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  were just 10 years old, and it really affected
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  you. What was that like? One of the band members
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  that my cousin played with, a saxophone player
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  by the name of Philip Castaneda. If you notice,
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  I'm putting all these names out because these
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  are unsung heroes of Bakersfield. We love it.
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  I mean, I love it, I should say. And I think
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  at that time, if you could see on that poster
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  right there, Children Under 12 was 99 cents to
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  see James Brown. Wow. So he took me to see James
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  Brown. when I was 10 years old, and it was unbelievable
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  to me what I saw. And even though I was 10, it
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  inspired me to want to play music. It really
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  did. It just inspired me to want to be a part
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  of that type of show throughout my whole career.
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  I played a lot of James Brown music. Yeah. Was
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  that at the Albert S. Goode Auditorium? Albert
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  S. Goode. Yeah, I printed out that flyer. Oh,
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  well, that doesn't necessarily mean it was this
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  particular show. I know there was two. I don't
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  know. He was always in town. I mean, we used
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  to go see him every year, especially after they
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  opened the Civic. Oh, wow. Yeah. That particular
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  flyer, I saw someone named Eugene Moles post
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  online, and I know his dad was Gene Moles, who
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  was an important Bakersfield artist. Yeah, this
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  wasn't the show I seen because there was, I know
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  about Bobby Bird, but there was no opening acts
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  like this Anna King and Johnny and Bill, the
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  show I seen. But, I mean, James Brown came to
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  Bakersfield every year. That's awesome. Every
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  year. That is so cool, man. You're welcome to
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  keep that one. Oh, thank you. I didn't want to
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  ask. I didn't want to ask, but I, oh, thank you
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  so much. Albert S. Goode. Yeah, this was before
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  the Civic was built. Yeah, Albert S. Goode is
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  at the fairgrounds, right? The big artists would
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  play there. Because I was not a very good student
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  in high school, and so I was the class clown.
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  So I would get kicked out for semesters at a
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  time. Wow, whole semesters? Whole semesters.
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  And Johnny Gomez, unfortunately, had valley fever.
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  And so he was at home all the time. And Johnny
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  Gomez, he was one of the renowned guitar players
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  of Bakersfield in jazz and R &B. And so we lived
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  in the same hood, you might say. And my cousin
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  was a bass player. So I knew some of the, by
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  him being a bass player, I knew some of the musicians,
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  like Willie Herrera, who was a saxophone player,
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  Nino Macias, all of these people would come by
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  our house. And then when I found out that Johnny
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  had valley fever, I would go visit him during
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  the day, and he would teach me how to play guitar.
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  I started getting good at it, and so he took
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  me under his wing. And he introduced me to the
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  Paradons, so I started being the bass player
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  for the Paradons. That's how I got into being
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  a bass player. And, you know, we did television
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  shows on Sunday morning with Don Rodewald. Don
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  Rodewald's The Afternoon Show on KER23. That's
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  the one. And so that was with the Paradons you
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  were with. What was the show like? How long was
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  it? It was a variety show. And probably at the
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  end of the show, they would have music. Oh, okay.
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  I don't know. I can't remember. It's been so
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  long ago. No worries. I just know we did it.
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  Yeah. But we were there, I think, almost, it
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  seemed like almost every Sunday. Wow. That's
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  cool. Right. And also, I think, you know, once,
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  you know, we had our own band, we did his show
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  as well with the original Souls. Nice. All right,
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  so we talked about Johnny Gomez. I know I read
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  that Luther Davis also helped you. How did he
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  help you? You have to understand, you know, that's
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  a long time ago. Yeah, don't worry. Okay, but
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  no, no, it's starting to make sense. It's starting
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  to make sense. Yeah, I got it wrong. I got it
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  wrong. What happened was, is that, you know,
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  when Johnny Gomez had Valley Fever. I would go
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  over there. He would teach me how to play guitar.
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  And then I met Luther Davis. How I met Luther,
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  there was a band called The Diamonds, and they
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  were working at the Kern County Fair, and Luther
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  and I got up on stage and sat in with them and
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  sang What I Say. Nice. That was kind of like
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  when I wanted to be in show business. And at
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  that time, Luther was in a band called The Mark
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  Five, which was a Mexican band. And they played,
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  you know, cumbias and corridos and, you know,
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  but they also played R &B. And they would let
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  me come in and sing two or three R &B songs.
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  And when they'd get paid, you know, if they made
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  $20 .35, well, they would all give me the $0
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  .35. That would be my pay. And what happened
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  was... Robert Calvillo, the bass player of that
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  band, got drafted to Vietnam. And Robert says,
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  well, I want you to take my place, and I'm leaving
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  you my bass guitar and my amp to play with this
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  band. And that's how I learned how to play bass,
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  from the knowledge that I got from Johnny Gomez.
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  And once I started playing bass is when I hooked
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  back up with Gomez to start playing with the
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  Paradons, and he was the one that got me the
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  job at the Cotton Club. Put it in the correct
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  timeline is a little difficult at this time in
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  life. Yeah, that makes sense. I have two names
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  that I wanted to ask you about, and I don't know,
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  I don't really know the era. This is exactly
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  whose good time, Charlie? That's Good Time Charlie
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  right there. Okay. That's Good Time Charlie.
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  And what band is that right there? That's Good
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  Time Charlie. I don't remember what he called
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  the band, but it was Good Time Charlie and somebody.
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  Impalas. The Royal Impalas. That's a cool name.
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  The Royal Impalas. And then something Elsie Killebrew?
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  Elsie Killebrew. Who's that? Elsie Killebrew
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  was probably the best drummer in Bakersfield.
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  Wow. As a matter of fact, he's in that band right
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  there as well. Elsie Killebrew was just, well,
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  he was with Good Time Charlie. Actually, you
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  can't really say that somebody was in this one
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  particular band. It was just everybody floated.
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  Yeah, that makes sense. Whoever needed a drummer
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  that day, you know, Elsie would go, you know,
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  that's just, whoever had the gig. And, but Elsie
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  Killebrew, I'll never forget, back in those days,
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  the pawn shop had brand new drum sets for like
• 14:52
  $125 with these terrible sounding cymbals and
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  everything. And that was his drum set, but man,
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  he could play it. He was just really, really,
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  in fact. He reminded me of Jabbo Starks from
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  the James Brown Band. Wow. That's how he played.
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  Yeah, L .C. Killebrew, just an amazing drummer.
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  I think before you started playing with all these
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  bands, you were playing in some Mexican -American
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  bands, like the Juarez Hall, the Druid Hall,
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  and the Fraternal Hall, you said? Well, yeah,
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  that's when I got with Luther Davis. Luther Davis,
• 15:32
  like I said, was playing with the Mark V. And
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  the Mark V went from the Mark V to the Mark VI
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  to the Mark VII, you know, depending on how many
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  guys they had. I really, you know, I wasn't a
• 15:44
  bass player at that time with them. I was just
• 15:46
  like this featured singer that would come in.
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  You know, we would do the waters and the Starlight
• 15:52
  Roller Rink, they'd have dances that lasted until
• 15:57
  five and six in the morning. That was on Kentucky
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  Street. You know, I even sang Mexican songs like
• 16:06
  Cray and, you know, stuff like that. But, yeah,
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  that's how I started, you know, getting into
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  the band thing. But, you know, what changed was
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  when Robert got drafted and they needed a bass
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  player. And so I started working on that skill.
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  And then once I started getting good at that,
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  I started to stretch out on my own. You know,
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  I started my own band. I was pretty aggressive,
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  you know, so I didn't like taking orders from
• 16:38
  people. And so I would say right around 67, yeah,
• 16:44
  right around 66, 67, I started putting together
• 16:48
  my own bands. I first started playing in around
• 16:52
  63. Yeah, as a freshman in high school, that's
• 16:55
  when I met Luther. And Luther, you know, he was
• 16:58
  in that Mexican band, and that's where... I cut
• 17:01
  my teeth, you know, being on stage, was with
• 17:05
  that Mexican band, the Mark V. That's awesome.
• 17:08
  Yeah. And so then how did you start playing soul
• 17:12
  music? You know, Johnny Gomez was already into
• 17:16
  the blues, and he was already into the paradons,
• 17:19
  and they were singing that kind of stuff. And
• 17:21
  when they needed a bass player, he called me.
• 17:25
  Yeah. And then that's how... I started getting,
• 17:29
  you know, more involved into the R &B thing is
• 17:32
  with Johnny and the Paradons. And then once,
• 17:36
  you know, I kind of cut my teeth on that is when
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  I met some guys, you know, local guys my age
• 17:42
  that were into James Brown. I mean, we were the
• 17:45
  James Brown fanatics of that time. I put together
• 17:50
  a group called the Original Souls. It was Johnny
• 17:52
  Diasdado, Ron Goosby. Rod Rodriguez, in fact,
• 17:57
  I was just talking to him today and myself. What
• 18:00
  about Jack Swift and Mike Bonilla? Or is that
• 18:03
  later? You know, when you think about it, it's
• 18:05
  not a whole bunch later. Okay. It was like maybe
• 18:09
  six or seven months after that. What had happened
• 18:12
  was, you know, we were kind of making a name
• 18:15
  with ourselves. But, you know, we still just,
• 18:18
  you know, we weren't really making it. And then
• 18:20
  we heard about this. Filipino -Mexican drummer
• 18:23
  from Lamont by the name of Richard Rugnow, who
• 18:27
  was a great singer and a great drummer. And he
• 18:30
  was working with this band called The Majestics.
• 18:33
  And so we went to one of their gigs, a house
• 18:36
  party or something, and we saw him and we just
• 18:38
  flipped. You know, we recruited him. You know,
• 18:41
  we stole him from The Majestics and said, man,
• 18:43
  you need to come with us. And then that's when
• 18:46
  we added Mike Bonilla. and we added Jack Swift
• 18:50
  to our band, and then that's when we won the
• 18:53
  Battle of the Bands in 1969 at Lake Ming, and
• 18:57
  we went on to the Hollywood Bowl, and we won
• 19:01
  there as well, which led to us opening for Gary
• 19:05
  Puckett and the Union Gap. Awesome. Well, we've
• 19:08
  gone past the Cotton Club. Yeah, yeah, don't
• 19:10
  worry. I'm going to circle us back. So we talked
• 19:14
  a lot about some of the groups that were playing,
• 19:19
  were around back then. I know the Cotton Club
• 19:23
  and the Elks Club, and then there were some of
• 19:27
  the dance halls. What else was there? There was
• 19:31
  a club out in a town on Cottonwood. Well, actually,
• 19:37
  it's Lakeview Avenue. Lakeview is north of Brundage,
• 19:41
  and Cottonwood Road is south of Brundage. And
• 19:44
  there was a town. back then. Carversville? Carversville.
• 19:49
  Oh yeah. The squeeze in. Yeah. The squeeze in.
• 19:53
  And, and for some reason they used to have a
• 19:57
  lot of out of town blues musicians. And so, you
• 20:02
  know, I wasn't really that much of a blues fanatic
• 20:06
  at that time. But every once in a while, you
• 20:09
  know, people would say, man, you need to go check
• 20:11
  so -and -so and so -and -so, and you would go
• 20:13
  out to the squeeze -in. But the squeeze -in was
• 20:16
  a little dangerous. It was a lot more dangerous
• 20:20
  than, actually, Cottonwood. The Cotton Club?
• 20:26
  Yeah, it was a lot more dangerous than the Cotton
• 20:28
  Club. You know, I don't know. I guess because
• 20:30
  I was young and, you know, I was part of the
• 20:32
  band, I never, ever felt any kind of, I was never
• 20:35
  afraid. to be around there. And it was really,
• 20:42
  I mean, there's this one picture of this guy
• 20:47
  right here, this guy, this white guy, and his
• 20:52
  name is Andy Kernberger. He used to play at the
• 20:55
  Cotton Club all the time. They called him Blue
• 20:58
  -Eyed Soul. They loved him. They loved him. So
• 21:03
  it wasn't that bad. as some people may think
• 21:06
  it was maybe that you know what um people talk
• 21:09
  about moms and pool hall and things like that
• 21:13
  now those were dangerous places and i don't know
• 21:16
  how they they figured that that they were music
• 21:19
  venues they were not oh yeah yeah i was going
• 21:21
  to ask about that i mean robert price did a story
• 21:25
  about this and it's been it's also even before
• 21:29
  then uh There was another story in the Californian
• 21:33
  that mentioned Delwood and Mom's Place as music
• 21:36
  venues that had a bunch of artists playing. But
• 21:39
  that's not true, is it? We should correct the
• 21:41
  record. Yeah, I would say I could correct the
• 21:43
  record to say that there was no music going on
• 21:45
  at Delwood's. And Delwood's was a pool hall.
• 21:50
  And Mom's was, you know, I know Mom's had a hotel.
• 21:56
  The only thing, now let me set the record straight
• 21:59
  here. The musicians that, you know, from the
• 22:04
  Chitlin Circuit that would come into town to
• 22:07
  play at the Cotton Club would stay at Mom's.
• 22:10
  Yeah. You know, so, I mean, I guess it did have
• 22:14
  somewhat of a music affiliation. I see. You know,
• 22:18
  but they weren't performing there. They slept
• 22:21
  there. That's the difference. Unless, now, let
• 22:24
  me say this. You know, I left Bakersfield in
• 22:27
  1976. But by that time, Cottonwood Road, Lakeview
• 22:34
  Avenue, or whatever you call it now, it was getting
• 22:38
  a little dangerous. There was a lot more guns
• 22:42
  starting to happen. Back in my day, there wasn't
• 22:45
  a lot of guns going on. Yeah, here's this picture
• 22:49
  of Lakeview Avenue in the 1950s and two pictures
• 22:53
  of people at the Cotton Club playing, if you
• 22:56
  want to see. It's from the Bakersfield Californian
• 23:02
  article in 2001. Oh, I wish I could see the musicians
• 23:07
  in the back. Yeah. If you look at the bottom,
• 23:11
  it says it's from the Daniels collection from
• 23:14
  Daniels. John McDaniels. I don't know where the
• 23:19
  photos are now. Oh, my goodness. I can see him
• 23:25
  standing behind the bar. He was tall, man, about
• 23:27
  6 '3", 6 '4". Yeah, so. We should talk about
• 23:31
  the Cotton Club. He was the owner of the Cotton
• 23:34
  Club, right? Yes. He was a fireman, so obviously
• 23:39
  he had enough money to buy that club, but he
• 23:42
  was a great guy. John McDaniels, right? Yes,
• 23:46
  yes. I'll never forget him. One time in particular.
• 23:52
  Oh, wow, there's Sylvester. There's Sylvester.
• 24:00
  Backing up Johnny Guitar Watson. Go on, Sylvester.
• 24:03
  This guy, you see this guy right here? Yeah.
• 24:07
  That's the same dude right there. Oh, that's
• 24:10
  cool. That's the same dude. That's Sylvester
• 24:13
  Lyons. That's awesome. Sylvester Lyons. He was
• 24:16
  a great bass player. Just he liked his alcohol
• 24:19
  too much. Uh -oh. But he was a great bass player.
• 24:23
  Go on, Sylvester. Yeah, they were. You're going
• 24:31
  to make me cry, man. I'm sorry. You're going
• 24:34
  to make me cry. And those are the only photos
• 24:36
  I could find. I mean, I'm sure there's maybe
• 24:39
  some around in private collections, but as far
• 24:42
  as I could find, that was everything. God. Wow,
• 24:47
  what a trip. He's playing bass. He's backing
• 24:49
  up Johnny Guitar Watson. And see, that's the
• 24:52
  reason why I was able to become the bass player.
• 24:56
  in the house band because the alcohol, you know,
• 24:59
  he was just, you know, sometimes he would just
• 25:02
  be passed out, unfortunately, you know? And you'd
• 25:05
  get the call. Yeah. So the Cotton Club is a stop
• 25:11
  for the Chitlin' Circuit, right? Right. Which
• 25:13
  we should talk about. I don't think most people
• 25:16
  know what the Chitlin' Circuit is, so I'll let
• 25:19
  you explain it. What is the Chitlin' Circuit?
• 25:20
  The Chitlin' Circuit is black clubs. throughout
• 25:26
  America. And I won't say the South, you know,
• 25:30
  they call it the Chitlin Circuit, but it's Chicago,
• 25:33
  LA, I mean, Central Avenue. Central Avenue was,
• 25:37
  you know, the Chitlin Circuit, but I mean, obviously
• 25:41
  it was much bigger. But what they would do is
• 25:47
  like, how the Chitlin Circuit worked. They would
• 25:51
  do the major venues like San Francisco, L .A.,
• 25:55
  but they would make their traveling money stopping
• 25:57
  in places like Bakersfield and Fresno, working
• 26:01
  their way up to the larger venues. Yeah, so it's
• 26:05
  like a tour route. Right. For all these musicians.
• 26:08
  Right. That's exactly what it was. And, well,
• 26:13
  as you can see, what they would do, they would
• 26:16
  use local musicians. To back him up. The name,
• 26:19
  like Johnny Guitar Watson. Johnny Guitar Watson
• 26:21
  was, you know, he was big. Yeah. You know, back
• 26:24
  in the day. But people like, I mean, like Bobby
• 26:26
  Bland. I saw Bobby Bland at the Cotton Club.
• 26:29
  I saw, you know, Tina Turner. I didn't see Tina
• 26:33
  Turner, but she was there. Yeah. And also the
• 26:38
  Crusaders. Remember the Crusaders? I can't say
• 26:42
  that I do specifically. I heard Etta James played
• 26:45
  there. Oh, yeah. That's just. Okay, so we should
• 26:49
  talk about how big the Cotton Club is. It's not
• 26:51
  very big. It was like 100 people that it fit
• 26:54
  or so? You know, man, I really couldn't, you
• 26:59
  know, I couldn't say right now. I mean, when
• 27:02
  I was 15, 16, 17, you know, 18 years old, it
• 27:07
  seemed like a big place. It was two levels. Two
• 27:11
  levels, like one's the stage, one's the... No,
• 27:13
  no, no. When you walk into the Cotton Club, there
• 27:16
  was this one level, you know, the bar. When you
• 27:19
  walk in, the bar was on the left, and you had
• 27:22
  all these tables here, and then you walked down
• 27:24
  a couple of steps, which was kind of like the
• 27:27
  dance floor, but it still had tables on the side,
• 27:31
  and people would dance right there, and then
• 27:32
  you'd have the stage right there. Yeah, so it
• 27:36
  was... Capacity -wise, I really couldn't tell
• 27:40
  you. Yeah. I heard it had a store, too? There
• 27:46
  was a liquor store. That had nothing to do with
• 27:48
  it? Because in an article it says, this is another
• 27:53
  thing, I want to correct the record, it says
• 27:56
  that the Cotton Club was a combination grocery
• 27:59
  store, pool hall, and dance club. Is that true?
• 28:03
  No. Well, unless they did it after I left in
• 28:06
  76. Yeah, as far as from... Up to 1976, of course.
• 28:11
  Right. Up to 1976, because I worked the Cotton
• 28:14
  Club a lot. Even when I wasn't backing up, even
• 28:20
  when I got with my band, we would play the Cotton
• 28:25
  Club. And the only thing I remember about the
• 28:29
  Cotton Club is that when you walk out to the
• 28:31
  door, 10 feet right there was a liquor store.
• 28:34
  Okay. right there it was just so it wasn't even
• 28:38
  physically connected no it was physically it
• 28:41
  was part of it was part of the of the building
• 28:44
  yeah okay but i don't know it's the cotton club
• 28:48
  well i wasn't there in the 50s so it looked this
• 28:51
  looks a lot more rural than it was and yeah you
• 28:56
  know that makes sense yeah i think the building's
• 29:00
  still there but i'm not sure it's there yeah
• 29:02
  it's that guitar uh some type of music instruction
• 29:08
  place that teaches guitar. I would love to go
• 29:10
  inside and see if it's pretty much the same.
• 29:14
  Oh, man, I love this picture here. Well, they're
• 29:17
  yours. Oh, man, thank you so much. I love this
• 29:21
  picture of Sylvester Lyons. That is so cool.
• 29:24
  I learned a lot from him. I really did. Ooh,
• 29:28
  I would love to see John McDaniel's photo library.
• 29:32
  So what were some of the best shows that you
• 29:35
  remember at the Cotton Club? Man, there was a
• 29:41
  guy, you know, I wouldn't say that he's famous,
• 29:45
  but his name was Baby Sid. Okay. And Baby Sid
• 29:49
  was a B3 organ player. Ooh, like a Hammond type
• 29:54
  thing? Hammond B3 organ player with the pedals
• 29:56
  and everything, and he would carry his B3 in
• 29:59
  a hearse. He lived in Los Angeles. And he'd come
• 30:03
  up periodically and just blow the house down.
• 30:07
  You know, he was just amazing. Another one, and
• 30:12
  I'm talking about the unknown ones, the ones
• 30:15
  you don't hear about. And there was another one,
• 30:18
  I tell you. There was this singer named Miss
• 30:24
  Dakota. And Miss Dakota sounded exactly like
• 30:28
  Etta James. Wow. And I remember. backing you
• 30:32
  know being backing her up just like Sylvester
• 30:35
  backed up Johnny Guitar Watson you know so I
• 30:38
  mean that's that was our job to back up these
• 30:40
  people out of LA or whatever and I remember you
• 30:44
  know Miss Dakota was fine you know and and we
• 30:47
  were backing you know we were backing her up
• 30:49
  and you know me being young I'm you know I'm
• 30:52
  going you know and right at the finale of the
• 30:56
  show she goes into her breasts and pulls out
• 31:02
  an apple and pull, pulls out another piece of
• 31:07
  fruit and then takes off the wig. And it was
• 31:10
  a man. Wow. A drag show. It was a drag show.
• 31:14
  It was a drag show in the sixties in Bakersfield,
• 31:18
  California. That's so cool. You know, it was,
• 31:22
  it was, it was traumatizing for me. Oh, because
• 31:25
  you were a bit in love? Yeah, a little bit. But,
• 31:29
  I mean, after I got over my trauma, you know,
• 31:33
  she took me out. The thing I remember so much
• 31:39
  about working at the Cotton Club is that you
• 31:42
  always, after the gig, you go eat at the Royal
• 31:44
  Palms Cafe. Nice. Where was that? Was that close?
• 31:48
  That was on Union and 3rd Street. Okay. Well,
• 31:52
  I think the Royal Palms is still there. Oh, yeah.
• 31:57
  But, I mean, it had a nice little coffee shop
• 32:01
  and everything, and the artists would go there
• 32:04
  and eat after the gig if they either went back
• 32:07
  to L .A. or after the show or stayed at Mom's
• 32:11
  or whatever, but that's where they would go to
• 32:12
  eat. And, let's see, who else was... Well, I
• 32:20
  mean, like I said, Bobby Bland and the Crusaders
• 32:22
  and all the named acts, but there was a lot of
• 32:25
  unknown acts that were coming out of L .A. that
• 32:27
  were just amazing. But the two that come in mind
• 32:30
  is Miss Dakota and Baby Sid. That's awesome.
• 32:36
  Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of research, and there's
• 32:39
  all these amazing concerts, and the Bakersfield
• 32:41
  Californian, as far as I can see, didn't cover
• 32:44
  it at all. It's good to hear about it. So talk
• 32:51
  to me about the Original Souls. How did you start
• 32:53
  out playing clubs and work your way up? Well,
• 32:57
  the Original Souls, that was a high school band.
• 33:00
  I graduated in 67, and that band had been together
• 33:05
  since like 66. So maybe I was like a junior or
• 33:10
  something like that. But we played a lot of high
• 33:14
  school dances. And we did weddings and that type
• 33:17
  of stuff. To me, you know, I think we were like
• 33:21
  Sly and the Family Stone on a local level, because
• 33:24
  like I said, we had we had two black guys, myself
• 33:27
  and Ron Goosby. And we had Johnny Diosdado and
• 33:32
  Mike Bonilla. And then we had Richard Rugnow,
• 33:35
  who was half Filipino and half Mexican. And we
• 33:38
  had Jack Swift, who was white. And then we also
• 33:41
  had. After Jack Swift, we had a guy named Phil
• 33:45
  Johnson, another white guy. So we were a mixed
• 33:48
  band, but our fan base was the east side. Oh,
• 33:53
  wow. A friend of mine, a guy named Mario Rodriguez,
• 33:57
  who I grew up with in the hood, he worked for
• 34:00
  KCEOC, and he got me a job. As a summer director,
• 34:07
  remember, they have those places where kids could
• 34:09
  go. Yeah, like summer camp type stuff. Yeah,
• 34:11
  rec centers and things like that. I had this
• 34:14
  job where I would, at this house where kids could
• 34:19
  come and play, you know, shuffle pool or whatever.
• 34:22
  We would practice. You know, that was where we
• 34:26
  would practice. And the whole neighborhood of
• 34:30
  all the kids, and it was actually in the Loma.
• 34:33
  It was on Burger Street, I believe, in the Loma.
• 34:37
  And we would practice there and all of the kids
• 34:39
  from the Loma would come. And then I got a job
• 34:42
  working at Jefferson School where, you know,
• 34:45
  they'd have the, you know, the rec center. And
• 34:48
  we would practice there and all of the kids from
• 34:51
  the Loma would come and watch us play. Rather
• 34:55
  than, you know, they'd play and then on Sundays
• 34:59
  we would go play at Heritage Park. When we signed
• 35:03
  up for that Broadway Battle of the Bands at Lake
• 35:07
  Ming, it was 13 bands. And most of those bands
• 35:11
  were white bands. And they had horn sections
• 35:14
  and they had this and they had that. I'll never
• 35:17
  forget it. When we went to go play out there
• 35:19
  at that Battle of the Bands, that place was full
• 35:22
  of Hispanic people, our fan base. And if you
• 35:28
  read the write -up, it says it was the largest
• 35:30
  crowd ever at Lake Ming for that time period.
• 35:33
  And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt
• 35:37
  that two -thirds of those people were our fan
• 35:40
  base. Yeah, it said in the article, I read that,
• 35:44
  that it was 3 ,000 to 4 ,000 people. And Bakersfield
• 35:48
  didn't even have 200 ,000 people yet, I don't
• 35:51
  think. So that would have been 2%. Roughly, that's
• 35:57
  like 2 % of the population of Bakersfield was
• 36:00
  at Lake Ming that night watching this concert.
• 36:03
  It's crazy. It's cool. And see, we were the pride
• 36:09
  of the East Side. We were the pride of the East
• 36:12
  Side. So they... They went out there to support
• 36:16
  us. And, man, I can tell you, I mean, to this
• 36:19
  day, of all the things that I've done, that is
• 36:22
  one of the highlights of my career because it
• 36:24
  meant so much to the people, you know, to the
• 36:29
  Hispanic community on the east side and the blacks,
• 36:33
  too. You know, we were the pride of Bakersfield.
• 36:37
  I mean, it wasn't about, to me, that whole thing
• 36:40
  was not about music. It was about social. And
• 36:44
  especially with all the racism in Bakersfield
• 36:46
  and the oppression and everything. And to have
• 36:49
  their band win the prize. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 36:54
  You know, it was amazing. And it didn't matter,
• 36:58
  you know, like this fraternal hall riot or whatever
• 37:01
  they call it. I'll never forget it because we
• 37:05
  were the band that was playing there that night.
• 37:06
  Oh, yeah, we should talk about that. So in July
• 37:10
  of 1969. You played at the grand opening of the
• 37:16
  Fraternal Hall. Two weeks later, you go back,
• 37:18
  and what happens? Well, wow. Where'd you get
• 37:24
  that information? It's from Daniel Rios' thesis.
• 37:29
  Okay. Well, I can say this. What I remember about
• 37:34
  that day is that we played at Heritage Park.
• 37:39
  And what we used to do at Heritage Park, we would
• 37:42
  just go and we'd set up and we'd start playing.
• 37:44
  And the whole park would fill up. It would just
• 37:48
  fill up. And we would play for beer money. And
• 37:52
  then we had a gig that night at Fraternal Hall.
• 37:56
  And where was that at, the Fraternal Hall? It's
• 37:58
  on California Avenue, close to Union Avenue.
• 38:00
  It's still there? Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. The great
• 38:03
  part about that is that all of the people that
• 38:06
  were at Heritage Park that day. they all paid
• 38:09
  to go to that dance that night they just you
• 38:12
  know they took a little break or whatever they
• 38:14
  did and they you know when we left the park and
• 38:17
  you know we were young so we could just go play
• 38:20
  and pack up and then go do the gig and and these
• 38:24
  were young people right yeah yeah like you know
• 38:26
  teenagers teenagers yeah teenagers yeah this
• 38:29
  was you know this was young people and um But
• 38:34
  we had such a tremendous following that they
• 38:37
  would go hear us play for free in the daytime
• 38:39
  and then go and pay to go see us play that night.
• 38:43
  And I remember it was packed. We never played
• 38:46
  to an empty house. We never played to an empty
• 38:49
  house. And I remember them coming up to the stage
• 38:53
  and saying, you guys need to stop. You guys need
• 38:55
  to stop playing. And we go, okay. And so we go.
• 38:59
  We go outside. I mean, and there was no violence.
• 39:02
  There was absolutely no violence. I can tell
• 39:06
  you this with all honesty, that when we played,
• 39:08
  it was a love -in, man. We never had any trouble
• 39:12
  or any fights or anything like that. But that
• 39:15
  night, after they told us to stop, we all went
• 39:19
  outside to go see what was going on. And right
• 39:22
  in front, you had all of the people that were
• 39:26
  inside. standing outside in front of the fraternal
• 39:29
  hall. And there was a row of cops in riot gear
• 39:33
  on the other side of California Avenue. And some
• 39:37
  idiot threw a beer bottle in the middle of the
• 39:41
  road. It wasn't even close to hitting any cop.
• 39:46
  And when he threw that beer bottle in the middle
• 39:49
  of the road, they came over across that street,
• 39:52
  man, swinging hard. And so when we saw that,
• 39:56
  you know, we jumped in our cars and we left.
• 39:59
  And then when we came back, man, there was blood
• 40:02
  everywhere. It was awful. It was really, really,
• 40:06
  really bad. So, you know, obviously there was
• 40:08
  a big uproar and it got really bad. We played
• 40:12
  at Martin Luther, well, California Avenue Park,
• 40:16
  you know, to try to, you know, calm everybody
• 40:18
  down, I think a day or two after. You know, there
• 40:22
  were some Molotov cocktails thrown at some white
• 40:24
  people that drove by. I don't know what that
• 40:27
  was about. And then I remember the cops stopping
• 40:30
  me as I was walking down the street and they
• 40:33
  threatened me and had me in the car. And, you
• 40:36
  know, I was smart enough to say, yes, sir, no,
• 40:40
  sir, yes, sir. You know, it was awful. It was
• 40:43
  awful. That's horrible to face that. when everyone
• 40:48
  is just trying to play music and have a good
• 40:51
  time to deal with violence like that, especially
• 40:55
  from the people that are supposed to protect
• 40:57
  you. Yeah, so I've read a little bit about this
• 41:01
  incident in Daniel Rios' thesis. Also, Oliver
• 41:07
  Rosales wrote a book called... Civil Rights in
• 41:11
  Bakersfield, Segregation and Multiracial Activism
• 41:14
  in the Central Valley. And it does really talk
• 41:17
  a lot about in that book about people from different
• 41:20
  cultures working together on the east side to
• 41:23
  try to fix some of the problems with racism and
• 41:27
  violence in Bakersfield. But in chapter six,
• 41:32
  it talks about this incident. After this incident,
• 41:36
  three black teenagers brooks johnson and larkin
• 41:39
  were all on trial for attacking the police even
• 41:46
  though all the witnesses said that they didn't
• 41:49
  and multiple officers testified that they did
• 41:56
  attack the police but one officer steve powers
• 42:01
  testified that the police were trying to make
• 42:04
  up story and that that's not what happened. He
• 42:08
  said that he wouldn't compromise his integrity
• 42:11
  and he resigned from the BPD. And even with that
• 42:15
  testimony, the jury voted to convict these three
• 42:19
  teenagers. I think that injustice has never been
• 42:23
  fixed. It was terrible. What started that was
• 42:27
  someone threw a beer bottle in the middle of
• 42:30
  California Avenue. I'm an eyewitness to it. For
• 42:34
  sure. And that officer's dad was a police chief
• 42:38
  here in the 30s and 40s. He was the chief of
• 42:41
  the Bakersfield Police Department. They kind
• 42:43
  of got ran out of town and they talked to the
• 42:46
  Fresno Bee and he said that Bakersfield is a
• 42:51
  sociologically backward community, a racist community
• 42:55
  where police can be used to harass private citizens.
• 42:59
  I don't want Bakersfield to be like that. I want
• 43:02
  Bakersfield to be a good place for everyone.
• 43:04
  Yeah, I agree, but it wasn't. The one thing I
• 43:08
  know, there was a lot of solidarity on the east
• 43:11
  side. There was a lot of great music. And, you
• 43:16
  know, when you mentioned the Cotton Club, I have
• 43:18
  to say, too, the Elks used to bring in a lot
• 43:21
  of great acts as well. Nice. I remember Clarence
• 43:25
  Carter. It's been so long. I mean, it's been,
• 43:28
  what, 60 years. Yeah. You know. But, yeah, I
• 43:35
  can't remember. But I know that I got, even though
• 43:40
  this was in Los Angeles, you know, where the
• 43:42
  music scene was obviously much greater, we did
• 43:46
  have great artists come through this town and
• 43:50
  play, you know, on Lakeview Avenue or Cottonwood
• 43:53
  or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, and that's
• 43:55
  cool. in spite of the adversity that you were
• 43:58
  facing you could have quit music and said i'm
• 44:02
  done after this but you didn't you kept going
• 44:05
  you didn't let it stop you and just because if
• 44:09
  we live in a town that does have problems doesn't
• 44:11
  mean we can't try to build it up in our own way
• 44:14
  our own communities our own families and stuff
• 44:17
  well i mean when i think about the music scene
• 44:20
  in the 60s and the 70s here you know when i say
• 44:23
  60s i'm talking about you know, mid -60s to mid
• 44:27
  -70s, that 10 -year span. That's my time here.
• 44:35
  And you had some great musicians in this town,
• 44:39
  like Sylvester Lyons back, you know, and there
• 44:42
  was a guitar player named Billy Moland, Gene
• 44:45
  Lothry, it's a good time, Charlie. All of these
• 44:48
  people, you know, they were just great, great
• 44:51
  musicians. And unfortunately... Some left, like
• 44:54
  Charles Weldon, and made a name for himself in
• 44:57
  New York. And Johnny Gomez. Johnny Gomez is,
• 45:01
  you know, he was the jazz guy, the jazz Hispanic
• 45:06
  guy of Bakersfield. And then, you know, by working
• 45:09
  with the Hispanic community, there was a lot
• 45:13
  of great Hispanic musicians here, you know, like
• 45:16
  Johnny Gomez and, let me think, Philip Castaneda
• 45:19
  and Lalo Castaneda. Nino Macias, Robert Calvillo.
• 45:25
  I mean, I could go on and on and on and on. But
• 45:28
  there was a lot of music on the east side and
• 45:32
  a lot of good musicians. That's cool. This probably
• 45:36
  happened after you left, but why did some of
• 45:40
  the clubs close in the 70s? When I left, man,
• 45:43
  I don't know what it was, but, you know, it got
• 45:46
  violent here. When I left, there was, you know...
• 45:50
  There was shootings. The Cotton Club was, you
• 45:52
  know, was a dangerous place to go. The Elks was
• 45:55
  probably, there was another place called the
• 45:57
  Checkmate that was on Union Avenue. That was
• 46:00
  okay, but I mean, I remember playing there and
• 46:03
  then, you know, watching, you know, gunfire,
• 46:06
  you know, all around. Right in the 70s, I was
• 46:09
  working in a lot of the white clubs, like the
• 46:12
  Dungeon on Real Road. Right, well, the Dungeon
• 46:15
  was, well, I mean, you know, when I say white,
• 46:18
  no, it was... I think everybody was starting
• 46:20
  to get away from the east side. You know, I guess
• 46:25
  people were becoming a little bit more mobile
• 46:26
  or something. But the Dungeon, there was another
• 46:31
  club on Oak Street. I can't think of the name
• 46:35
  of it. There was the Matchmaker, which, you know,
• 46:40
  that was not a place where people of color could
• 46:42
  go. Okay. But I played there, and I feared for
• 46:46
  my safety whenever I played there. I really did.
• 46:49
  But that's where I met my wife. Oh, wow. So,
• 46:55
  yeah, by that time, right before I left, I was
• 46:58
  working a lot more of the white clubs in town.
• 47:03
  And, you know, people, you know, of color were
• 47:07
  starting to branch out a little bit more. And
• 47:10
  then you had the Tam O'Shanner. I'm sure you've
• 47:12
  heard of that. The what? The Tam O'Shanner. No,
• 47:15
  I haven't. Well, the Tamar Shanner is right up
• 47:17
  here on Alta Vista. Lemucci's Tamar Shanner.
• 47:21
  And that was another venue that brought out -of
• 47:28
  -town acts. And you also had, obviously, Maison
• 47:32
  Joso's. You've heard of that, right? No. Okay.
• 47:36
  I didn't know. Well, I mean, Maison Joso, well,
• 47:39
  it's now a casino down on South Union by the
• 47:43
  fairground. Okay, that used to be a club? That
• 47:45
  used to be Maison Joseph's. That was like the
• 47:48
  place where they had all of the... And that was
• 47:51
  in the 70s when you're saying that was the place?
• 47:54
  Okay, cool. 60s. Oh, 60s too? Yeah, 60s and 70s.
• 48:00
  And then you had The Lost Knight. That's what
• 48:04
  it was, The Lost Knight on Oak Street. So yeah,
• 48:08
  I mean, there was a lot of music back then, a
• 48:10
  lot of places to play. you know after after after
• 48:15
  cottonwood or lakewood i mean lakeview avenue
• 48:18
  whatever you want to call it after it got it
• 48:20
  started getting really dangerous yeah i wouldn't
• 48:23
  even want to you know i wasn't going around there
• 48:26
  then except the elks elks has always been a home
• 48:31
  base nice oh i should ask what do your family
• 48:35
  think of you being a musician well funny story
• 48:41
  you know when i when i was playing music. Everybody
• 48:45
  used to say, boy, why don't you get yourself
• 48:47
  a real job? Why don't you quit messing around
• 48:49
  with that music? You ain't going to ever be nothing
• 48:51
  about nothing. You know, you're going to be,
• 48:53
  you know, you're worthless. So I listened to
• 48:56
  that, you know, and I went to, back in the day,
• 48:59
  they had what they called a job corps. And, and
• 49:03
  so I went to the job corps and I studied electronics
• 49:08
  or electricity probably back then. And because
• 49:13
  of affirmative action, I got a job at AT &T.
• 49:16
  At that time, it was called Western Electric.
• 49:21
  But it's now AT &T, same company. And boy, you
• 49:26
  know, that's a job where I could have retired
• 49:29
  and had two homes and a motorhome and, you know,
• 49:33
  a pension and everything. I think I lasted three
• 49:37
  months and I quit it for a six -nighter. And
• 49:39
  they thought that I had lost my mind. Your parents?
• 49:43
  Well, your grandparents? Yeah, great -grandparents.
• 49:46
  They thought I just completely lost my mind,
• 49:48
  that I wasn't going to ever be anything. And
• 49:52
  the whole family, you know, all family members.
• 49:54
  But then when I left and I got the job with Tina
• 49:58
  Turner and I'm traveling the world, they all
• 50:00
  said, oh, I knew you were going to do this. I
• 50:07
  knew you were going to do this. And I said, yeah,
• 50:09
  right. Thanks for the support, you know. So they
• 50:14
  didn't think too much of my musical career in
• 50:18
  the beginning. So how did that happen? You were
• 50:21
  playing in the original Souls, and then you went
• 50:24
  to Tina Turner. That was your next gig? Unfortunately,
• 50:28
  the original Souls, you know, we were popular
• 50:33
  all the way up until 75, 76. Unfortunately, drugs
• 50:39
  got involved. So the band disbanded. And so I
• 50:45
  decided, okay, well, I want to become, you know,
• 50:48
  I still want to play music, and I know that I
• 50:51
  have to leave town in order to pursue my career.
• 50:54
  And I moved to Los Angeles and found out that
• 50:57
  I wasn't nowhere near up to snuff. So I was in
• 51:03
  a room like this, and I'd spent... Six, seven,
• 51:05
  eight hours a day practicing. And just so happens,
• 51:09
  a good friend of mine from Delano called me one
• 51:13
  day. He had moved to Los Angeles. He was a bass
• 51:16
  player. His name was Charles Sarcita. Very good
• 51:20
  bass player. He called me. He said, hey, man,
• 51:23
  I got a job with Tina Turner. He says, but my
• 51:28
  wife and I talked about it. We have three small
• 51:30
  children, and I have to turn it down. so would
• 51:34
  you you know you want to you know go audition
• 51:36
  for Tina Turner I said yeah so you know he told
• 51:41
  me what he auditioned and so I went into my practice
• 51:47
  mode and practice and I got the job and I was
• 51:49
  only in Los Angeles eight months before I got
• 51:52
  the job with Tina Turner wow yeah what was that
• 51:56
  like playing with Tina Turner I told Robert Price
• 51:59
  that Tina Turner was not only my boss, she was
• 52:02
  my mentor and sometimes my mother. She knew that
• 52:07
  I was green as far as being a professional musician.
• 52:11
  She took special care for me. She loaned me the
• 52:14
  money to bring my wife on a three -month tour
• 52:17
  of Europe. Wow. It was great. I mean, she was
• 52:23
  great. She was very family -oriented. It was
• 52:27
  a family. In fact, we're forever friends. All
• 52:32
  of the musicians that I play with that are still
• 52:34
  alive, we're like family, just like family for
• 52:39
  sure. So you were in her band from 1977 to 1981?
• 52:44
  Mm -hmm. So you toured all through Europe and
• 52:47
  the United States, right? And Australia, New
• 52:50
  Zealand. Wow. Everywhere. What was it like playing
• 52:55
  live for that many people? The largest crowd
• 52:57
  I've ever played for is 20 ,000. That's a lot.
• 53:01
  That was in Caracas, Venezuela. To be honest,
• 53:05
  man, you know, 10 rows deep, you don't see nothing.
• 53:12
  It's the same. Yeah. Yeah, 10 Rows Deep, that's
• 53:16
  it. Then it's just... That makes sense. So you
• 53:20
  went from there to playing with Lou Rawls, right?
• 53:22
  Mm -hmm. How did that happen? Well, we were opening
• 53:26
  for Lou. Okay. Well, we were doing a lot of Vegas
• 53:31
  back in those days, and Vegas was really happening
• 53:36
  back in those days. We were working Vegas quite
• 53:39
  a bit. We were working Caesar's Palace and the
• 53:41
  Hilton and different things like that. And for
• 53:44
  some reason, we were opening for Lou Rawls. Lou
• 53:48
  Rawls was very famous at that time because he
• 53:50
  had that hit record, You'll Never Find. Okay.
• 53:53
  And so we got to be, because we worked so much
• 53:58
  with him, we got to be friends with, you know,
• 54:00
  their band and our band, Tina's band, we all
• 54:03
  became friends. As a matter of fact... One of
• 54:06
  the dancers married Lou Rawls' bass player. When
• 54:10
  that bass player decided to leave Lou Rawls to
• 54:13
  go with Glen Campbell, he asked me if I wanted
• 54:17
  to, you know, be in Lou's band. For some reason,
• 54:20
  I thought, I'll never forget this. For some reason,
• 54:24
  because Lou worked mostly in the United States,
• 54:27
  and with Tina, we were all over the world. And
• 54:31
  I felt, OK, well, if I play with Lou, then I
• 54:35
  could be closer to my kids, you know, because
• 54:39
  I wouldn't be, you know, that far away. Yeah.
• 54:42
  But trust me, man, if you're on the road and
• 54:45
  you're in New York, it's no different being in
• 54:47
  New York and being in Japan. I see. You know
• 54:51
  what I'm saying? Yeah. You're just I mean, you're
• 54:53
  still gone. You're still gone. You know, and
• 54:57
  and, you know, I won't say this, but. But Lou's
• 55:01
  band did not have the camaraderie that Tina's
• 55:04
  band had. You know, I made a lot more money.
• 55:08
  In fact, I was even on retainer. Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 55:12
  You know, I mean, my wife and I, we had a brand
• 55:14
  new Volvo. And I mean, you know, we bought a
• 55:16
  house. I mean, we were doing just fine financially.
• 55:20
  But musically, I missed the camaraderie. Yeah.
• 55:24
  You know, that camaraderie that we had with Tina.
• 55:28
  Because. of the simple fact that I was Tina's
• 55:31
  first bass player as a solo artist. Because when
• 55:35
  I got with Tina, she had just left Ike. We were
• 55:38
  there to help her. Yeah. And I think we did a
• 55:43
  pretty good job. That's good. She became one
• 55:47
  of the world's most famous people. Yeah. And
• 55:50
  there's a documentary on HBO that I'm in. Oh,
• 55:54
  you are? That's cool. Yeah. So I'm in that documentary.
• 55:59
  I'll have to look that up. So after Lou Rawls,
• 56:03
  you went on Star Search with Pressure Point.
• 56:06
  Is that right? Yeah. Actually, how that started,
• 56:11
  there was a drummer here in town named Randy
• 56:17
  Sears. I got him a job with Tina. And then there
• 56:20
  was a guitar player named Marty Townsend. And
• 56:22
  what we did, we had a trio here in Bakersfield.
• 56:24
  I moved back to Bakersfield. for a period. And
• 56:30
  what we did is we had a trio, and then we would
• 56:33
  bring in musicians from L .A. And we brought
• 56:36
  in this guy by the name of Sonny Charles, who
• 56:38
  was famous. He had a couple of hit records. And
• 56:43
  then we would bring in the background singers
• 56:46
  from the Righteous Brothers, and we would back
• 56:48
  them up. Wow. Sonny introduced us to some girls.
• 56:53
  One was actually... the wife of the baseball
• 56:56
  player Steve Yeager from the Dodgers. And she
• 56:59
  was with Steely Dan and Andy Williams and all
• 57:03
  of that. So they were all professionals, and
• 57:04
  so we put a band together. And one of them knew
• 57:08
  Leslie Uggams. I think Leslie Uggams' claim to
• 57:12
  fame now is a bunch of Star Wars things that
• 57:15
  she's in. And so her and her husband and Dionne
• 57:19
  Warwick managed us. And so without an audition
• 57:23
  or anything, the next thing we knew, we were
• 57:25
  on Star Search. Wow. You know, it's who you know.
• 57:30
  Yeah. And so we got on Star Search and we made
• 57:34
  it all the way to to the finals and we lost.
• 57:39
  And so I am. That was the end of that, as far
• 57:44
  as I was concerned, because I think we lost because
• 57:47
  of drugs. It's the classic musician story, band
• 57:53
  story. After that, I decided to go out on my
• 57:57
  own. Is that when you went to Europe and started
• 58:00
  touring all over? After that, I got in with this
• 58:04
  guy from Delano. Oh, yeah. What's his name? Little
• 58:08
  Ray. Little Ray, nice. Have you heard of Little
• 58:10
  Ray? No. He did a really good, he had a hit song
• 58:15
  when he was 13 called I Who Have Nothing. Okay,
• 58:19
  that's cool. Right, and you can find it on YouTube.
• 58:23
  Yeah, I'll check it out. He got into the East
• 58:25
  L .A. R &B scene, and he got with, you know,
• 58:29
  the Midnighters, and, you know, he's an excellent
• 58:32
  vocalist, excellent vocalist out of Delano. But
• 58:35
  anyway, after I left the Star Search band, he
• 58:39
  had what we call a casual band. And he did a
• 58:46
  lot of, you know, fancy parties in Beverly Hills
• 58:51
  and Hollywood and things like that. And then
• 58:56
  clubs. He would do clubs during the week, and
• 59:00
  then he would do private parties on the weekends.
• 59:04
  And I saw that I was making a decent living,
• 59:07
  you know, doing, you know, we play these hundred
• 59:11
  dollar nightclubs three nights a week and then
• 59:13
  we'd make, you know, maybe another five hundred
• 59:16
  dollars for the weekend. So I was bringing in
• 59:18
  eight, nine hundred dollars a week just doing
• 59:21
  clubs in these private gigs. And so then he had
• 59:25
  he had so much work that he wanted an offshoot
• 59:28
  band. And so he hired me to become a band leader
• 59:32
  to do, you know, a lot of the work. And then
• 59:36
  he was a little oppressive, you know, and I wasn't
• 59:40
  making what I knew that, you know, we were being,
• 59:44
  you know. Yeah, you knew the money side. Yeah,
• 59:47
  I knew the money side. So I said, well, you know
• 59:50
  what? You know, I said, I think I want to go
• 59:54
  out on my own. And so what I did is I told. Anybody
• 59:59
  that had hired me, I said, if you want me, I
• 1:00:03
  said, I'm no longer affiliated with Breakthrough
• 1:00:06
  Artists. If you want my show, you need to call
• 1:00:09
  me. And I became a society band leader. I was
• 1:00:12
  doing rap parties for ABC. I was doing all kinds
• 1:00:16
  of great things. And I made a great living. And
• 1:00:19
  then what happened was I realized that I had
• 1:00:23
  played three weddings for the same family. I
• 1:00:27
  had did. all three of their children's weddings.
• 1:00:31
  And that's not how I wanted to go out. I mean,
• 1:00:33
  I had done the Playboy Mansion. I did it all
• 1:00:36
  as far as the L .A. scene is concerned. And then
• 1:00:39
  I got a call to go to the Middle East, to Bahrain.
• 1:00:43
  I dropped everything and put my band, you know,
• 1:00:46
  I took my band. I said, whoever wants to go,
• 1:00:48
  let's go. And so we went to Bahrain, and we were
• 1:00:53
  very successful in Bahrain. Then I got a call
• 1:00:56
  to go back to Bahrain, and then we went to Oman
• 1:01:00
  and was very successful. Then we went to the
• 1:01:03
  UAE, and then we went to Croatia. I mean, we
• 1:01:08
  were all over the place. And then I got a call
• 1:01:10
  from a guy that I knew in the Middle East and
• 1:01:12
  said, hey, I want you to come to the Netherlands.
• 1:01:17
  and play and help me build this club. And so
• 1:01:20
  we went to the Netherlands. And this is in the
• 1:01:23
  90s? 90s, yeah. Well, the 90s for the Middle
• 1:01:28
  East and the early 2000s for Europe. Okay. You
• 1:01:32
  know, and then also after that, I became an entertainment
• 1:01:38
  director for a hotel in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.
• 1:01:41
  Wow. So, you know. And then after that, I came
• 1:01:48
  back home. And that's your blues era, right?
• 1:01:51
  Yes, it is. Yeah, in LA. Oh, that's right. You
• 1:01:55
  saw that one. And that was in Belgium, that gig.
• 1:01:59
  And what I would do is like that guy that was
• 1:02:02
  singing on that video that you sent. His name
• 1:02:05
  is Lucky Lloyd. He's a blues guitar player. And
• 1:02:08
  so what I did, I had a bunch of Dutch musicians.
• 1:02:11
  All of those guys were Dutch musicians. And we
• 1:02:14
  would back up American artists. Wow. Over there.
• 1:02:19
  So did you go to L .A. and study more of the
• 1:02:22
  blues? Yeah, I did. Yeah. That was in between
• 1:02:28
  working in the Middle East and moving to Europe.
• 1:02:32
  Okay. So during that time, I realized, see, the
• 1:02:36
  thing about it, even though blues is simple,
• 1:02:39
  like three chords and stuff like that, that doesn't...
• 1:02:43
  make you a blues player because you know how
• 1:02:44
  to play three chords. And I knew that when I
• 1:02:48
  played the blues that I didn't really know what
• 1:02:50
  I was doing. So the only way for me to figure
• 1:02:52
  out how to play the blues is to go play the blues.
• 1:02:56
  So I got with this guy named J .J. Bad Boy Jones.
• 1:02:59
  He was about my age now. He was like 76, 77 years
• 1:03:05
  old. Blues guitar player. And I got with him,
• 1:03:10
  and I started playing the blues, and I got into
• 1:03:13
  the blues circuit. And then I started working
• 1:03:16
  with this guy named Roy Gaines. He had a few
• 1:03:19
  hit records, and we went to Switzerland. We went
• 1:03:22
  to Paris. We were all over the place playing
• 1:03:25
  the blues, met B .B. King in Paris. Wow, that's
• 1:03:27
  cool. And we did blues festivals everywhere,
• 1:03:31
  all over the U .S. and Europe and everything
• 1:03:34
  else. So I became, you know. Quite the blues
• 1:03:38
  guy. And that's where I met Pauly Sarah. You
• 1:03:41
  know, when I moved back to America after my eight
• 1:03:45
  -year stint in Europe, that's when I started
• 1:03:47
  working with Pauly Sarah. And this would have
• 1:03:50
  been what year did you move back, do you think?
• 1:03:52
  2010. Yeah, then you worked with Pauly Sarah
• 1:03:55
  Band. Then you started playing at the Crystal
• 1:03:57
  Palace, right? Right. You hadn't been a part
• 1:04:00
  of Bakersfield Sound at all, and all of a sudden
• 1:04:01
  now you're playing with the Buckaroos. Right.
• 1:04:05
  Yeah. Well, it was, how did that happen? You
• 1:04:10
  know, the funny part about that is that, you
• 1:04:14
  know, I played with this blues guy named Swamp
• 1:04:18
  Dog. Oh, yeah. I saw you were on that album,
• 1:04:21
  The White Man Made Me Do It, right? Why you did
• 1:04:29
  your research? I tried my best. Yeah. The white
• 1:04:37
  man, man. He still owes me for that album. Oh,
• 1:04:41
  man. Yeah, he still owes me. The cool thing about
• 1:04:45
  Swamp Dog is that we did this, oh, that right
• 1:04:50
  there, that Rhythm and Blues Festival, Tell It
• 1:04:53
  Like It Is, June 30th through July 4th on the
• 1:04:58
  National Mall for the Smithsonian. Ooh, the Smithsonian.
• 1:05:01
  Yeah. The National Mall in Washington, D .C.
• 1:05:03
  then? Yeah. Right. That is cool. Yeah. So we
• 1:05:08
  did that as well as us. There was Stax people,
• 1:05:12
  you know. Ooh, Stax Records. Stax Records was
• 1:05:15
  there. All of these people, Mabel King, all of
• 1:05:18
  these people, all these old R &B people. And
• 1:05:21
  also the Funk Brothers. Ooh. You know. Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Very good. You remember the Funk Brothers. They
• 1:05:30
  did all of the Motown records. You know, that
• 1:05:33
  was a bittersweet moment for me because, you
• 1:05:38
  know, knowing that the Funk Brothers were on
• 1:05:41
  there, knowing that, you know, that the work,
• 1:05:43
  the body of work that they had done, I could
• 1:05:45
  not wait to go and hear them and to meet them.
• 1:05:49
  So on the National Mall, they had like about
• 1:05:52
  three or four tents. set up three or four venues
• 1:05:56
  where people would go and see these acts oh kind
• 1:06:00
  of like the different stages at a show right
• 1:06:02
  what do they call festival stages right there
• 1:06:05
  were different different stages and intents we
• 1:06:08
  were finishing our show and the funk brothers
• 1:06:11
  were getting ready to start and i wanted to go
• 1:06:14
  see the funk brothers and especially to go see
• 1:06:16
  bob babbitt Bob Babbitt was one of the Funk Brothers
• 1:06:19
  bass players. It was him and James Jamerson who
• 1:06:24
  did the majority of all of those, you know, tracks
• 1:06:27
  for Motown. But unfortunately, Bob Babbitt had
• 1:06:32
  brain cancer. And so when I went to go see him
• 1:06:37
  play, they were playing Ain't Too Proud to Beg.
• 1:06:40
  And the song is in C, and poor Bob was playing
• 1:06:43
  in C sharp and didn't even know he was playing
• 1:06:46
  in C sharp. And come to find out is that, you
• 1:06:50
  know, the brain cancer was really taking effect
• 1:06:52
  on him. And they asked me to finish out the concert
• 1:06:56
  series, which had eight shows left. With the
• 1:07:00
  Funk Brothers, wow. With the Funk Brothers. So
• 1:07:02
  I did that. And it was so great because what
• 1:07:05
  it was so cool is that when I do my show with
• 1:07:09
  Swamp Dog, right, as soon as I finished, there
• 1:07:11
  would be a golf cart waiting to take me to the
• 1:07:14
  next tent. To go play with the Funk Brothers,
• 1:07:18
  you know? And so I made double money that gig.
• 1:07:21
  But it was bittersweet because I was taking Bob
• 1:07:25
  Babbitt's place, you know? To make a long story
• 1:07:29
  just a little shorter, is that after I did that,
• 1:07:33
  two weeks later, they called me to play at the
• 1:07:35
  Crystal Palace. Okay. You know? And I thought
• 1:07:39
  to myself, wow. You know, two weeks ago, I was
• 1:07:43
  playing with the Funk Brothers. Now I'm playing
• 1:07:45
  with the buckaroos. And what I did is I went,
• 1:07:48
  you know, I went to the Crystal Palace and I
• 1:07:51
  listened to Doyle play and learned, you know,
• 1:07:56
  learned how to play country music. I didn't just
• 1:07:58
  go in there and, you know, just use my own thing.
• 1:08:02
  I tried to respect any music I play. But it's
• 1:08:07
  not about me. Who was playing in the Crystal
• 1:08:11
  Palace with you? Who was in the buckaroos at
• 1:08:13
  the time? Well, it was Jim Shaw. And he helped
• 1:08:19
  with your new album, didn't he? Yes, he did.
• 1:08:21
  Yeah, he wrote some songs. We became close friends.
• 1:08:24
  Jim and I are close friends now. Terry, I can't
• 1:08:30
  remember Terry's last name, but he was the guitar
• 1:08:32
  steel player with Buck. And that was pretty much
• 1:08:36
  it for the Buck. Well, Dave, Dave Wolfkeeler
• 1:08:39
  was the drummer for the, he was the last drummer
• 1:08:42
  for Buck. So he's technically a buckaroo as well.
• 1:08:46
  Yeah. So there was three buckaroos that I was
• 1:08:49
  playing with, and I took Doyle's place because
• 1:08:52
  Doyle's ears got real sensitive. He went to a
• 1:08:55
  gun range and started target practicing with
• 1:08:59
  no, you know. Protection. No protection. Uh -oh.
• 1:09:03
  And so that's what, and then Monty Byron was
• 1:09:07
  actually the one that was fronting. the buckaroos
• 1:09:10
  at that time okay and he was the one that that
• 1:09:13
  recommended me to um to take doyle's place wow
• 1:09:17
  that's cool yeah well not about his ears of course
• 1:09:20
  but yeah okay i this is a random one but so i
• 1:09:26
  know you sometimes play a four string but i've
• 1:09:29
  seen clips of you playing a five string bass
• 1:09:31
  when did you change that up that's recently I've
• 1:09:40
  kind of taken a hiatus from playing for the last
• 1:09:42
  couple of years to take care of some family business.
• 1:09:45
  Yeah. And then when I decided to, you know, after
• 1:09:49
  I released my album, well, I haven't even released
• 1:09:54
  it. I'll be releasing it this month. Oh, cool.
• 1:09:57
  And I decided, you know, I've been playing five
• 1:10:02
  strings since, say, 1990. Because, you know,
• 1:10:08
  back then, you know, they had the synthesizers
• 1:10:11
  with the low Bs, you know. Yeah. You know, so
• 1:10:14
  in order to become competitive, I got the five
• 1:10:17
  string. It was hard in the beginning, but then
• 1:10:20
  I got used to it. And I still love the five string.
• 1:10:23
  But then I decided that I wanted to go back to
• 1:10:28
  old school. Yeah. And this is just recently.
• 1:10:31
  You know, I took this bass and I completely changed
• 1:10:33
  all of this stuff. And I put. you know, all top
• 1:10:38
  of the line gear on it. Nice. And I decided that
• 1:10:42
  I'm going to go this four -string jazz bass and
• 1:10:46
  my five -string. And I might pull out the Precision,
• 1:10:50
  depending. But it's going to be the jazz. I was
• 1:10:54
  a jazz bass player, Fender jazz bass player.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah. And then I went to the G &L, which is basically
• 1:11:03
  a glorified Fender. You know, because it's made
• 1:11:07
  by Leo Fender and George Fullerton. Oh, nice.
• 1:11:10
  Fullerton. So it's basically a Fender bass, as
• 1:11:14
  far as I'm concerned. Yeah. So, yeah, but this
• 1:11:18
  one, this is going to be my go -to bass. Nice.
• 1:11:21
  And I use the five -string for specialty songs.
• 1:11:25
  We should talk about your new album. That's what
• 1:11:27
  you've done the most recently, musically, right?
• 1:11:29
  Love is the Cure? Yes, sir. How was that? Did
• 1:11:34
  you write that? You wrote those songs like here
• 1:11:37
  in the studio that we're in? Well, Love is the
• 1:11:40
  Cure, it's kind of funny how this thing came
• 1:11:43
  together. I went to Jim with some original material,
• 1:11:47
  some music and lyrics, just to get his opinion.
• 1:11:53
  Yeah. He didn't really like my lyrics. So what
• 1:11:58
  he did, he took the music and he rewrote the
• 1:12:01
  lyrics. And all of a sudden we became good friends
• 1:12:05
  and the music worked. My music and his lyrics
• 1:12:09
  worked. And he decided to help me put it together.
• 1:12:12
  And so what I decided to do was take six songs
• 1:12:17
  of cover songs that most people knew and put
• 1:12:22
  my spin on them. And then I would take these
• 1:12:25
  other six songs, original songs, which Jim was
• 1:12:30
  very instrumental in doing. And every song has
• 1:12:34
  a meaning. Every of the original songs, they
• 1:12:36
  have a personal meaning. Promise is about being
• 1:12:42
  true to yourself and true to your loved one and
• 1:12:46
  having integrity about who you are as a person.
• 1:12:49
  You know, the lyrics, you know, my promise means
• 1:12:53
  forever and to stand the test of time is that
• 1:12:55
  when you give your word, that's your word. And
• 1:12:59
  especially to a loved one. And Walk the Walk
• 1:13:02
  was sort of like a protest song because I saw
• 1:13:05
  some hypocrisy in life where people were talking,
• 1:13:10
  basically saying, you know, do as I say and not
• 1:13:14
  as I do. If you're going to talk the talk, you've
• 1:13:17
  got to walk the walk. You know, so that's what
• 1:13:20
  that's all about. Let a Little Light In is about
• 1:13:25
  racism, but it's in a different way. It's basically...
• 1:13:32
  saying, to be honest, I'm going to just be candid.
• 1:13:34
  You know, this was sort of like a thing to say
• 1:13:38
  to liberal, open -minded white people to speak
• 1:13:42
  out when you see racism. You know, let a little
• 1:13:45
  light in. Open up a heart. Try to get these people
• 1:13:48
  to understand that, you know, we're all the same.
• 1:13:51
  We're in this together, you know. Messing around
• 1:13:55
  is about... meeting my wife and the relationship
• 1:13:59
  that we had. And Love is the Cure, well, it's
• 1:14:04
  about just loving your fellow man, you know,
• 1:14:06
  just, you know, don't think that you're above
• 1:14:10
  anybody else. So, I mean, I would hope that this,
• 1:14:13
  I mean, and that's why the name of the album
• 1:14:15
  is called Love is the Cure, because at the end
• 1:14:17
  of the day, man, I've been all over the world,
• 1:14:19
  and it doesn't matter where I go. If you show
• 1:14:23
  love to an individual, that's what they want.
• 1:14:27
  That's what anybody wants, just to be loved and
• 1:14:29
  respected. And that's what this album is all
• 1:14:32
  about. It's about just loving your fellow man.
• 1:14:36
  That's how I live my life. I mean, I would treat
• 1:14:40
  a homeless person with the same respect as I
• 1:14:43
  would a judge or anybody else. So that's me.
• 1:14:49
  And then plus, it was sort of like an homage
• 1:14:52
  to the musicians that I've met throughout my
• 1:14:54
  career, because I have some of the greatest musicians
• 1:14:57
  in the world on that record. The drummer on six
• 1:15:01
  of the tracks is James Gatson, who has been on
• 1:15:04
  over 500 gold records. Wow. You know, 500 gold
• 1:15:09
  records. You know, he was the drummer for Bill
• 1:15:11
  Withers. All of those hits, he was the drummer
• 1:15:13
  on. So back to the Grandma's Hands that we talked
• 1:15:16
  about. He probably played on that one. Probably
• 1:15:19
  did. We talked about that at the beginning. That's
• 1:15:20
  cool. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, he did Sexual
• 1:15:24
  Healing by Marvin Gaye. Marvin Gaye. Whoa. And
• 1:15:27
  he did Dancing Machine by Michael Jackson. I
• 1:15:30
  mean, he's done. I mean, he's on a lot. 500.
• 1:15:33
  That's amazing. It's amazing. Yes, it is. And
• 1:15:37
  there's a pianist on there by the name of Clarence
• 1:15:42
  McDonald. Bruce Conte from Tower of Power, the
• 1:15:45
  guitar player, is on there. There's another guitarist.
• 1:15:49
  I mean, he's an unsung. He's one of the behind
• 1:15:52
  -the -scenes guys by the name of Daryl Crook.
• 1:15:55
  But he was with the Gap Band and just an amazing,
• 1:15:58
  you know, guitarist. A good friend of mine, Bob
• 1:16:01
  Farrell, who was a musical director for The Temptations
• 1:16:04
  and The Four Tops. Just incredible musicians.
• 1:16:07
  So it's an homage because a lot of the music,
• 1:16:10
  most of the songs, they all have solos because
• 1:16:13
  I featured the musicians as well. That's cool.
• 1:16:16
  That's what this album is about. It's about loving
• 1:16:19
  mankind and my respect and homage to the musicians
• 1:16:23
  that I've met throughout my career. The rhythm
• 1:16:26
  section, most of the guys, the rhythm section
• 1:16:27
  has got to be 65 plus. In age. That's cool. It's
• 1:16:33
  a good album. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for
• 1:16:37
  giving me a copy. It's awesome. I'm excited to
• 1:16:39
  listen to it. On the back of it, I had to pay
• 1:16:43
  homage to Tina. Oh, wow. You know, and that picture
• 1:16:47
  there means so much to me because if you really
• 1:16:53
  look at that picture, you'll see the love between
• 1:16:56
  the two of us. I will never forget her for what
• 1:16:59
  she brought to my life. For me, this picture
• 1:17:02
  is not about, hey, I play with Tina Turner. I'm
• 1:17:05
  saying that this woman had a tremendous influence
• 1:17:09
  on me as a person and as a musician. That's no
• 1:17:13
  joke. That's what this is about. And I said to
• 1:17:16
  Tina, a huge and wonderful part of my life. It
• 1:17:21
  has nothing to do with the fact that she's world
• 1:17:24
  -renowned Tina Turner. It's all to do with the
• 1:17:27
  influence she had on me. So this is almost like
• 1:17:31
  a bio. Really, it's almost like a bio. That's
• 1:17:35
  awesome, though. You've done so much in your
• 1:17:39
  career. I'm so impressed. When you look back,
• 1:17:44
  what's the top three shows that you played? Well,
• 1:17:51
  you know, I can think of two. Okay. Well, if
• 1:18:00
  I think of my time with Tina, there's too many
• 1:18:06
  aha moments. Yeah. You know, that I don't think
• 1:18:10
  have anything to do with music. What are some
• 1:18:12
  of those moments? I'll give you the first two
• 1:18:16
  that doesn't have anything to do with Tina. One
• 1:18:18
  of the greatest moments I've had. performing
• 1:18:21
  was i i performed at a cambodian orphanage that's
• 1:18:28
  one of the highlights of my career was to play
• 1:18:31
  that orphanage the other was the lake ming battle
• 1:18:35
  of the bands yeah with those four thousand three
• 1:18:39
  thousand people and the majority of them was
• 1:18:42
  our fan base because of the meaning behind what
• 1:18:47
  we were doing that night and the other aha moment
• 1:18:51
  was with Tina. We were working at the Westbury
• 1:18:55
  Music Fair in Long Island, New York. And we were,
• 1:18:59
  we were on a theater in the round, you know,
• 1:19:03
  and it turns, you know, the audience is, you
• 1:19:06
  know, is all around you and it turns. And so
• 1:19:13
  we were performing, we were kicking butt and
• 1:19:16
  Tina's top fell. Oh, no. And so she grabbed it
• 1:19:22
  like this, and she went to go run off the stage.
• 1:19:28
  But I guess because the stage was moving, she
• 1:19:31
  lost her balance. So as soon as she got to where
• 1:19:35
  the stage, you know, as soon as she got off the
• 1:19:37
  stage, she tripped and fell, you know, and once
• 1:19:41
  again exposed herself. And so she went up to,
• 1:19:47
  you know. there was a quick change boost because
• 1:19:50
  she did custom changes in between, you know,
• 1:19:52
  some songs. And man, I mean, first of all, when
• 1:19:58
  the top fell, you know, the audience, us, the
• 1:20:01
  band members, I mean, we were just, oh, geez,
• 1:20:04
  you know, I mean, we were just so embarrassed
• 1:20:07
  for her. We were just, you know, and you could
• 1:20:09
  see the audience. They were, you know, they were.
• 1:20:11
  Feeling bad for her, too. And then when she fell,
• 1:20:14
  it was even worse, man. I mean, it was the atmosphere
• 1:20:18
  was just, you know, this heavy cloud came over
• 1:20:21
  the whole theater, you know. And then she came
• 1:20:26
  back, man. She came back like if nothing ever
• 1:20:30
  happened, she killed it. And man, I can tell
• 1:20:37
  you whatever it was that. that she brought back
• 1:20:40
  it it charged us like never before and i mean
• 1:20:44
  we just went into hyper mode of i mean we had
• 1:20:49
  a kick -ass show and the audience just i mean
• 1:20:53
  it was the electricity in that theater that night
• 1:20:56
  was i've never experienced anything like it since
• 1:21:00
  wow you know never experienced anything like
• 1:21:04
  it since and and right then and there That told
• 1:21:09
  me that this show business thing is a serious
• 1:21:13
  thing. It's not about you. It's not about you
• 1:21:21
  as an individual. It's about your art and your
• 1:21:24
  trade to bring the people together. Seriously,
• 1:21:29
  man, it was amazing to see that because I know
• 1:21:32
  how I felt. and I could see it on everybody else.
• 1:21:36
  But when she came back, like if nothing ever
• 1:21:38
  happened and just kick butt, we were right there
• 1:21:41
  with her. It's been amazing. Those are, you know,
• 1:21:46
  the 20 ,000, none of that stuff really matters,
• 1:21:49
  you know. I mean, we've done some things, done
• 1:21:51
  television, done, I've done everything, but those
• 1:21:53
  three incidents mean a lot. All the other stuff
• 1:21:57
  was gigs. That's amazing. Yeah. Tina Turner sounds
• 1:22:02
  like a badass. Badass. You know, in the documentaries,
• 1:22:06
  they always say when I was with Tina, they called
• 1:22:09
  it her cabaret years. You know, when she left
• 1:22:13
  Ike until the point to where she made it. You
• 1:22:16
  know, I think I posted something one time and
• 1:22:19
  said, you know, this may have been her cabaret
• 1:22:22
  years, but we were the best cabaret band in the
• 1:22:26
  world. You know. We were the best cabaret band
• 1:22:32
  in the world. I'll stand to that. And I'm honored
• 1:22:36
  to have been a part of that. Is there anything
• 1:22:39
  that you wanted to talk about that I didn't ask
• 1:22:42
  about? No, not really, man. You've pretty much
• 1:22:48
  covered my career, that's for sure. Back to,
• 1:22:54
  you know, the Cottonwood days, I just, and when
• 1:22:57
  you say Cottonwood and, you know, that Lakeview
• 1:23:00
  thing, I just really feel that it would be an
• 1:23:03
  injustice not to mention just the whole East
• 1:23:05
  Side itself. Yeah. There was so much going on,
• 1:23:08
  you know, music -wise. I mean, good musicians
• 1:23:11
  and, you know. I think you called it the East
• 1:23:16
  Bakersfield Sound, right? Yeah, that's right.
• 1:23:20
  It was. You know, it was an amazing culture back
• 1:23:25
  then. An amazing culture. So at the end of the
• 1:23:29
  show, I always like to shout out local artists.
• 1:23:33
  And I want to hear what local artists do you
• 1:23:36
  want to shout out? Beside yourself, of course.
• 1:23:41
  Jim Shaw. Jim Shaw. Jim Shaw. Jim Shaw. I call
• 1:23:47
  him the color man. Not colored man, but color
• 1:23:52
  man. He has a sensitivity about what he does
• 1:23:57
  on his keyboards that enhances the whole thing.
• 1:24:02
  He's a very sensitive musician. That's who I
• 1:24:06
  give a shout out to. I mean, there's more Johnny
• 1:24:09
  Gomez. Johnny Gomez, I don't know if I'd have
• 1:24:13
  become a musician without Johnny Gomez. He was
• 1:24:18
  very instrumental in my career, for sure. And
• 1:24:22
  he's still around, kicking. Yeah? Yeah, still
• 1:24:26
  around. I'll have to talk to him. Please do.
• 1:24:30
  So, oh, what about this? What about any past
• 1:24:33
  artists that just didn't get their credit? I
• 1:24:38
  mean, there's probably a book of those, right?
• 1:24:40
  But anyone that you haven't mentioned? You want
• 1:24:44
  to shout out again for emphasis even? When you
• 1:24:47
  say artists, you mean local artists? Yeah, I
• 1:24:50
  mean local artists, I guess I would say. Man,
• 1:24:53
  I mean, yeah. I mean, the list is way too long.
• 1:24:56
  Yeah. I mean, the list is way too long. I mean,
• 1:24:58
  Sylvester, I mean, when you showed me, gave me
• 1:25:01
  this picture of Johnny Guitar Watson and Sylvester
• 1:25:05
  Lyons. You know, I talk about my days as being
• 1:25:09
  in the house band, but... I have to remember
• 1:25:13
  that he was in the house band way before me.
• 1:25:17
  And the people that he backed up, Sylvester Lyons,
• 1:25:20
  Billy Moland. Let me think. Let me think. Sylvester
• 1:25:25
  Lyons, Billy Moland, Elsie Killebrew, Marion
• 1:25:29
  Gatson, Eugene Lothridge, Al Garcia and the Rhythm
• 1:25:33
  Kings, you know, Al Garcia, Manuel Garcia. Raymond
• 1:25:39
  Mojica. Just a ton of people, man. Just, you
• 1:25:43
  know, just great musicians that never really
• 1:25:47
  got, they never went anywhere, but I mean, they
• 1:25:50
  were great musicians. I mean, there was a group
• 1:25:53
  called the Gay Lads, the Diamonds, and all of
• 1:25:55
  these bands that were, I mean, I don't know,
• 1:25:58
  maybe, you know, I didn't realize, I was too
• 1:26:01
  young to realize their prowess, but to me, they
• 1:26:04
  were just fantastic. I'm just excited. This has
• 1:26:08
  been so fun for me. I hope it's fun for you.
• 1:26:14
  Well, I mean, you've taken me down memory lane.
• 1:26:16
  Are you kidding? A passerby gives what he can.
• 1:26:39
  A mother's baby cries all night, but her neighbor
• 1:26:43
  lends a hand. The new kid's sad and lonely, but
• 1:26:49
  someone's smile is near. Add up all the pictures,
• 1:26:54
  and I think it's really clear. Why can't we see
• 1:26:59
  to be truly free? The answer lies in you and
• 1:27:03
  me. It's love. It's the cure. Oh, love, it will
• 1:27:13
  endure. It's a love so sweet and pure. One thing
• 1:27:24
  in this world we know for sure. Love is the cure.