Latest / Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast / Spotting and Releasing New Leaders- Midweek Leaders- Tim Dobson and Rachel Riddall

Transcript

Spotting and Releasing New Leaders- Midweek Leaders- Tim Dobson and Rachel Riddall · Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_09: I think God is on the move.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_09: And if you read, believe what you read in the national press and some things that we see here on Sunday, actually God is doing something.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_09: And if God is doing something and people are from non-church backgrounds are going to become Christians, just coming along to a Sunday morning service isn't going to be enough to disciple equipment, help them to find church family.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, it's turned out to be a small group of connection.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_09: So, in some ways, if God is doing something out there, and in here we're not ready and prepared to multiply groups, actually, there's a little bit of a challenge.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_09: I think there's a challenge there around is God going to send folk our way if we're not going to care for them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_09: And so how if God's on the move, how are we going to think about um yeah, we we can be more small groups?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_09: Um, and there's a challenge both for those groups that are more uh kind of stable groups.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, this I know there's some some groups within our church family um where there's probably 12 people in home group, and all of them could lead home group, but actually at the Asian stage of life where they think actually I'm quite happy with this at the moment.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_09: And at some point there's going to be to put the challenge out.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, we if God is doing something, uh are we too busy?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_09: Or some of the things that we have, are we too busy if God's doing something?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_09: And I I don't know if any of you feel that, and maybe it's just me as a church leader, I feel I agree with that.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was sort of burning up on a bit in a reading about it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I think we're sometimes a challenge really.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_07: Um I'm very much of a generation on the top.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Learning the skills of leadership benefits of leading as a leader.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and sort of external benefits for benefits for the leaders, as a great experience of confidence and that stuff.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, almost like picking up the benefits for what people gain by being leaders, yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, as part of a sort of a journey.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, we're having to do that a lot more at work, think much more actually about the benefits of youth things to attract people to get interested in.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_09: What's interesting with younger volunteers, the Duke of Duke of Edinburgh Award is something that think, oh, we're gonna do the Duke of can we volunteer for help with one of the youth groups?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_09: And you think, well, you could just volunteer for one of the youth groups, but actually, because it's Duke of Edinburgh, actually they feel they're gonna get something, they're gonna put something on their on their CV when they apply to university and they've got something on there, and actually, I think you're right sometimes, but there is a how do we um ah yeah, do we need to do that?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_09: How should we do that?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_09: Or actually, is that part of the lead chip skill?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_09: It's when you're releasing leaders actually to say it's not just a requirement, but actually there are benefits as well.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_09: Um, and actually it's something to add to your CB or something to add to your portfolio of what you're you're you're doing.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um just building on that, like if you were to say something about um something at work like a career thing, I guess the thing is once the exit plan, are you gonna be committed to leading your home group for the next 20 years?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, you know, which sometimes happens once once the stepping off board progression for it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_09: And and I think probably some of the discussion we need to have, even with if you're thinking about your group modifying, is uh will you do this for the next six months?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_09: Will you do it for the next year?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_09: And in some ways, kind of maybe there's a people will commit to uh a shorter rather than will you be a home group leader, which could go on forever.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_09: And again, I think in some churches having a roll-in one-year program where you can opt out at the end of each year, but actually, if you're enjoying it, and like I say, you're benefiting from it, the likelihood, and if you've been supported enough, actually the likelihood is you may do year after year.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_09: But at the start, it's it's a it's a limited ask, maybe, to ask people.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_09: Um I wonder, and again, I think you mentioned it in both groups.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, people's resilience is is it is it lower or is it perceived to be lower, kind of post-COVID and kind of all the things actually time poor.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh yeah, I was talking to one another church leader just uh this afternoon, and and uh again they were saying within their church, there's a little network of three or four churches around the city, and he's saying actually we find it really hard just to find leaders because their perception is they're time poor.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_09: They haven't got but actually there's just as much time as there ever was, but there's other things that kind of that fill people's diaries and calendars, and um uh and he's yeah, he was pulling his hair out as much as I was thinking, well, how do you communicate effectively that actually this is God's kingdom kind of um so if you've got a choice of kind of here's what God's up to or Pilates kind of you maybe you you you're a regular person who you make space in your week for Pilates, but actually make space for this, and and again it's it's just a really hard thing to I mean you don't have to put people on guilt trips, but actually there's there is a perception of of um of busyness kind of uh uh and I'm not sure I have time to do that, or I'm not sure I've got the capability or the resilience to to lead well, which is again part of what we're going to look at this evening, is how can you make the the journey from identifying somebody who has the possibility of being a leader through to them feeling happy and confident to take out everyone?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, do you think people's resilience is a bit more shot at at the moment?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_09: Or perceived as I think it's a combination of those.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there is another people's resilience as a lot of but I think there's also a reality that the world is increasingly getting more challenging.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so um if we look at what games like you live at the moment at the moment, you know, you've got wars hurting up and all sorts, actually, all these things do play on our minds, yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time we had a global situation like this was probably 40, 50 years ago, um, which is just one angle.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: At everyone's prices, but I think we're at a time when life is potentially more difficult, at least in our minds, yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's difficult to know whether resilience has decreased, or whether it's just there's more that have to be resilience backwards.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_09: Um but in in that environment, then for us who've been the home groups for a while, how how do we respond to those challenges?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_09: And how do we um yeah, make space, uh open the conversation, uh, what can we do to to help people to to notice maybe that they can do something and that it actually is to their advantage to do that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_09: So um I've just got a few things, but I'm just gonna say a few things kind of um just uh as part of the conversation.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_09: Is that okay?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_09: Because in in some ways um uh we haven't got the answers totally.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_09: Um I mean, probably when things are a bit more stable, kind of you can say, oh yeah, we've been doing this for the last three or four years, and we know it works because we've tried it and it works.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, I think things have changed over the last three or four years, and we can't say with certainty this works.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_09: But here's a few things that actually, as you journey with people who are part of your groups, uh, or if you're able to influence other people's groups, actually, here's a few things that that maybe might help.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_09: And I suppose the the the start for me is um uh is is about spotting leaders.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh so with the group that you lead, um what do you what do you notice?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_09: What do you what do you notice um about the way that people react?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_09: When they turn up, when there's a time for praying for one another, a time for uh Bible study, how do they contribute, if there's a social, kind of if there's kind of uh people are tidy up at the end.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_09: Again, uh kind of do you have an eye out to to notice what people do?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_09: To spot a leader, kind of they're not going to be uh kind of well formed as a leader, possibly kind of, but there's little things you can notice them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_09: So if one to say, what would I what would I be looking for?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, do they have an influence on others?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_09: So even within a group where maybe you're you're the technically the the leader, actually, there may be people within the group who their opinions or what they say actually does influence on people, kind of um uh do you notice that?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_09: Because actually influence is one of the things to do with leadership.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh are they people who who gather?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_09: So if someone suggests kind of if one person says, should we do a social thing?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_09: And and people think this other person says, Should we do a social thing?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_09: Oh yeah, that's because actually they're they're a gatherer, that's about their personal warmth, or that actually they tend to be a kind of a gathering kind of person.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_09: Um, yeah, do people follow them?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_09: Um, I suppose that that's the definition of leader.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_09: Um, whether you've got the technical title or not, actually, some people uh do follow others.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_09: Um, do people listen to them?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_09: Again, when you're doing the Bible study, kind of and different people are commenting.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_09: Does the room go slightly more hushed when this person says something?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_09: Because actually people are trying to lean in and think, oh, actually, I'd really like to know what that person's got to contribute to the conversation.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_09: Um, do you notice things like um actually they are concerned for other people?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_09: You kind of you hear that they've kind of there's been a little prayer request during this small group, and during the week they've contacted the person or they've been to visit, they think, Oh, actually, they didn't have to do that, but actually at their own religion, they've they've they've chosen they they seem to be careful, kind of a bit more altruistic outside of themselves.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_09: Um actually, do they take responsibility?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of um again.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_09: Sometimes if you ask them to do something, do they do it and take responsibility?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, do they take responsibility just off their own bat?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of when it's time to go, do they help pick up the mugs and wash them up?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_09: And and again, just kind of I I think for me the first thing that I would look is is uh just notice kind of how uh and again sometimes you're so busy in the group that you're and you're glad that that they've people are there and you've had a fun time and you're glad when they're gone, and and it kind of the group just happens.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_09: But if you're gonna spot leaders, sometimes you need to have a little reflect on okay, even just a little two minutes after a group, who in that group influenced others?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_09: Who kind of was gathered, who were people kind of listening to them?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_09: Uh who is was showing a concern when somebody expressed a prayer request?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, who and again, after a few weeks, maybe okay, that there might be one or two people within this group who they're probably not a leader yet, but I kind of spot something in them that is um the possibility to work with.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_09: Does that make sense?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_09: And and I don't know if there's people in your group now that you can look at that little list and think, actually, yeah, that there might be one or two people in our group that again they they won't be a home group leader or small group leader kind of next week or next month, but actually maybe in six months' time or a year's time, maybe I see some of those things that I could work with them.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_09: Um so I think um can I just jump in on that?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, do it.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: I think one of the things that I was thinking, and that has helped me sometimes, is when it is when there's a crisis or something goes wrong, or something doesn't happen as it should, or there's a crisis at home, and you can't be there, or you it all goes wrong and someone has to step in.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes it's the people who are like rise up in these moments that are like, oh actually, they've got a bit of violence rather than just everyone who's like sitting around and everybody else going who's who's gonna what's gonna happen.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_05: You think, oh, who would I call, or who's who could do it?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: Who would be the person that kind of comes to mind?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and sometimes that is another little sort of helpful framework to think actually they've got a bit of something about them, yes, yeah.
• 13:24
  unknown: With a bit of nurture and a bit of support and a bit of encouragement, uh faintly there's a bit of leadership.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_09: I don't know how many of you have read this book called Hero Maker.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_09: Um I mean it's it's kind of for church leaders with bits, but it's the kind of five essential practices for leaders to multiply leaders.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_09: Um, but his main premise is that you can either be a hero or you can make heroes.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_09: If you are a hero, you can do a certain amount of stuff.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, if you make heroes, that kind of you it multiplies, and actually you can either be a home group leader or you can be spotting other people and have them to be home group leaders.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_09: And in some ways, leading home group is fantastic, we block.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_09: But actually, if you could be a home group leader that spots home group leaders, actually, in some ways you multiply your leadership and effectiveness.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_09: Um one of the things they have, one of the little kind of things they have uh in the book is uh I see in you.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh that kind of uh do you call leadership out of people?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_09: So do you do you do you see things in people and do you kind of name it?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_09: So do you say to somebody after kind of actually thanks so much for praying for that person?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, when you prayed, it just I just thought you you you prayed with a little bit of authority or whatever.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_09: So thanks very much for praying.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_09: Or or I heard that you visited so and so actually it's really kind of you, uh kind of, and actually I see in you a caring person, or I see in you somebody who's looking to have an influence, or I I see in you somebody who actually could be one day a leader, kind of, and and and there's something in the past I know that I I will look for just that little embryonic little whiff of something in people's lives, and because sometimes people need it calling out to them, kind of they're not gonna put themselves forward, they're not gonna say kind of oh, hi too much thing, but I I see in them, oh here's here's the possibility, here's the potential.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_09: Why don't I call out to you, get alongside you, give you an opportunity, kind of put some little things your way that actually could test out whether it's it's true or not.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_09: And and I so I I love that little thing, and and again, in running home groups, there's all kinds of things as home group leaders that kind of you in the vertical commons have to would like to do.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_09: But I think spotting potentially people and calling it out and verbalizing it uh is just a really helpful thing.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_09: Um and whether it is kind of leadership, whether it's pastoral care, uh whether it's um doing social stuff, actually, everyone within a group should have some kind of gift that everyone brings.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_09: It's a leader to notice that in everybody, but actually, leadership is one of the things you could notice and call out.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_09: Um so I I do like that little little phrase um uh IC in you.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_09: Um I suppose the second thing is as well as getting a little kind of feel for um somebody maybe possibly having the gift of it, actually, maybe you you might see some some skills that they've got as well.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_09: And you might think, oh, actually, the way they do that, or the way that they've kind of actually, if there was again a little bit of coaching, a little bit of help, I could see them really thriving within a small group.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_09: Uh so I was I was wondering what kind of skills uh and gifts um might you look for in a potential leader?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_09: So if you're thinking of either multiplying your group or you're thinking of um helping to resource other groups, uh uh actually what kind of skills or gifts might you be looking for in a potential leader?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_09: So just five minutes kind of with people who are in your little group there.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_09: Um what what kind what kind of skills and gifts if you're thinking, well, everyone's got something to bring, this person, I might see a bit of leadership in them.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of what will be some of the things you then start to look for or encourage them with skills and gifts?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, something you can encourage and strengthen you, and it's just great that they can understand every minute.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think we think it's like sometimes people like when you say someone's going to be needed or approaching someone need to be leader, like often they think that it's about leading, like actually being there, leading in the works doing that responsibility, whereas actually having a group uh having a group of leaders, like two or three leaders that all have different skills.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe one is a bit more organizational, and actually their leadership is to you know make sure that we know what's happening, making sure like you know the uh hospitality you know are they more organizational leadership rather than teaching the content or actually having when you're saying to somebody or teaching a teacher or like helping that, actually understand them a bit and that they have to have to have that as a leader rather than just boxing people and being like you're gonna lead it with the content and be pastorally responsible for the person, it's like they may not be have any pastoral skills, but actually they're really good at bringing other aspects.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_09: And I and I think that's exactly right, Melissa.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_09: I think if you're looking for the superhero, and even just listening to some of your things thinking, actually, if you look for all those things in one person, you're never gonna find them.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, if you look at all those things, you think, well, why on earth am I?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_09: That's an order leader.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_09: But actually, I think the thing is is what have you got to bring?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_09: And if each person brings, if they've got just this underlying, you've got this underlying hunch that they're they lead, that they can influence, whatever, what is the kind of skill gift they can bring to it?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_09: And if it is pastal care, or if it is leading a discussion, or or if it is kind of uh planning the program, kind of actually can you bring your skill particularly to and that's why a team rather than having one leader is great because people can bring the different skills and gifts together.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_09: Um, and and one person's not expected to do everything, but people can bring their skills and gifts.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_09: Um and I think praise is helping people to realise that if you want to coach them and help them to say, actually, this I see in you a compassionate caring person, or I see in you someone who's got the ability to take scripture and and lead a discussion in a way that people engage with, or I see in you just the ability to set a warm, friendly environment.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_09: I see that in you, that would be that attribute that skill I gif would be a great thing to bring to a new group.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_09: Um anything else you said in your groups about skills and gifts you might look for.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um have really great skills in their workplace.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um they're needing charity or they're they're carrying responsibility.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: But if you if you think, oh, would you take on media group or would you need an article group that a lot of people can think about because I'm not theologically trained, I'm not a church leader, I'm not this, this, isn't this?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: But actually maybe we need to be better at helping people see that the skills and the abilities and talents they've got in their workplace are actually seeing that home in in in the church space as well, rather than thinking they've got to be a mini church leader, isn't it?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I think I think a lot of the people in your group are super capable and really uh amazing people.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um and we wait till you bring the story.
• 22:08
  unknown: Yes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I'm just saying that over the years Jackie and I have just banged on to our group uh subtly that we're not we don't consider ourselves the leaders of the group, we're facilitating it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_08: And you know and they can lead in various ways.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_08: But um the example I use is home group leaders don't go into phone boxes and rip their shirt off when they get to them.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_08: Um they are they are superhuman action.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_09: But it's helpful to be aware of do we for those of us who are kind of paid part of church staff team, do we communicate things about small group leadership in an unhelpful way sometimes?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_09: And and how do we communicate that well, or how do you communicate that with people who are part of your group?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_09: Again, the role description or the task of being a home group leader, uh, what's that feel like and look like?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_09: Um and maybe again would love to have feedback if if you ever think that our messaging from the front or what we say actually is unhelpful to multiplying.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_08: I don't think it's unhelpful, I just think there's an assumption that you know a leader.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, it's just a word, you know.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_08: Perhaps it's another word, facilitator, is a bit cold, I don't know, but uh it more expresses what yeah what we do, really.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 23:38
  unknown: In how we call them hosts.
• 23:41
  unknown: Sorry?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_06: In how we call them we call them group hosts.
• 23:44
  unknown: Right.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_09: So it's like that you're actually creating a hospital kind of space, and so it becomes that you're you're hosting your guests rather than in a team, again, you might have somebody who hospitality and hosting is just their thing, and and to say that they're a leader would quash them, whereas to say use your welcoming, warm uh skills uh as a host, oh I can do that, but then like I say, that's uh the basic part of being a leader.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: One of the skills we mentioned was having integrity, and I think there's an authenticity that goes with that, and I think that if you're not how how do you find out if somebody has integrity or authenticity?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: If they actually share they actually share stuff about themselves, and I think that that shows uh a vulnerability and yeah, uh and I think there's a strength in that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah, I think I think authenticity is is more again rather than a skill or a gift, actually it is more to do with with character, isn't it?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_09: Um and I think sometimes we can say about when we talk about leading a home group, maybe we can emphasize some of the skill task bits that maybe actually who you are as a person is more important.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_09: I mean the the passage of when um when Paul says to Timothy about someone being an overseer.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_09: So the church in Ephesus where Timothy was, it would have been just a little series of home groups kind of that they would have met in someone's house.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_09: Again, some of the slightly richer people living in Ephesus might have a house that could kind of could speak 40 or so, but there probably weren't any churches that were larger than in fact an overseer was could have been, and it says kind of a now an overseer should be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent, uh, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money, must manage his own family well and see that his uh his children obey him.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh he must do so in a manner that's worthy of full respect.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, if anybody does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_09: He must not be a recent convert or he may become conceited and fall in under the same judgment as the devil.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_09: He must also have a good reputation amongst outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace or into the devil's trap.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_09: Um again, in that passage, there's a whole lot of stuff about someone's someone's character, kind of to be both reproached, not being given to super mood swings, being temperate, uh having their self-life under control, able to hold people's respect, um, open-hearted, um, again, not addictions, not addicted to alcohol or gambling or um uh not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, um not loving money, uh having a good reputation with outsiders.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_09: Um again, and the only one skill uh is able to teach.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_09: Um but sometimes when we're thinking about multiplying leaders, actually we we're looking for can they host a group well, can they can lead a Bible study well, can they lead a prayer ministry host spirit time well?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_09: And sometimes we're looking for the skills of a actually for Paul what was important was the kind of person they are.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_09: So I think, like you say, actually authenticity is actually a strong thing.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_09: So they might say, well, I couldn't possibly do that because I can't do this or I can't do that.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_09: And actually, then say it's it's who you are that's the most important part about your influence and your leadership.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_09: Um and again, some people might disqualify themselves because of the skill things, and in some ways you can learn, you can learn skills.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, it's a lot harder to change the trajectory of your character.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_09: Um, and so I think for some people who are, when I've spot leaders, I'm I'm probably looking for some of these kind of things.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_09: Um able to teach, that's not able to preach, it's able to teach.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of how do you define someone who's a teacher?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_09: You define it by can somebody learn from them.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_09: Uh and so if you can just walk alongside one person, open the scripture, and they can learn something, you're able to teach.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_09: It's not that you have to be at the front with great oratory skills.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh but that is the only thing, is it because in leading a home group, we're leading them towards someone, towards a life that someone died to bring us.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_09: So it's not just a little self-help group.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of so you in some ways you have to have the ability to uh lead people somewhere to teach them, kind of in the broadest sense of the word.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_09: Otherwise, apart from that, it's it's all this kind of character stuff.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um just had a interaction still carrying that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things they wrote is like in HS is all about being competent to go to the past, and have knowledge of scales of behaviour.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing that they said, behaviour.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think that the patient is there, useful behaviour.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's the most difficult thing.
• 29:05
  unknown: So it's interesting seeing this after having that today.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just that that the character of it is it's how we behave that people see the basis, isn't it?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_09: And I think it's even more important in this last three or four years where Christian leaders uh kind of maybe have done things that they shouldn't have done and whatever.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, I think authenticity, and and and with the social media kind of thing that like Nigel's saying on on Sunday, actually there's there's this whole pretense as you scroll through, and people want well, who's the real you?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_09: Who is who's the real person I engage with?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_09: And actually, some of some of this stuff about being uh kind of authentic is just super important because um maybe you could have got away with leading a great Bible study, maybe you could have got away with having a great best kind of ice-breaking question in the world, get kind of with the skills, but actually now people are looking a bit more for the character.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh, which again is it's not to say you've got to be perfect before your home leader, but actually you've got to be aware that you're there's a journey all of us are on from brokenness to wholeness, from struggling with our flesh life to being renewed in Christ.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, we're all on that kind of trajectory, um, and to spot that in people I think is really really important.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_09: Um I think the four things that we sometimes say with with looking for leaders is is the four C's character, competence, chemistry, culture.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_09: Um, if you're looking for somebody uh to help you assist you with leading a group, maybe potentially being a hungry leader, actually, I think the character that we just said is really important.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, that there's some competence, whether it's competence for hosting, competence for pastoral care, competence for leading a discussion, competence for planning organization.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_09: There has to be some kind of so there can't be a lovely person without any any kind of leadership competence.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_09: Um that I kind of sometimes think I agree with, sometimes I think I don't agree with, a sense of chemistry, kind of uh do they do they kind of get on well with people?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_09: Is there a sense of kind of um uh yeah, that there's a good chemistry with the group and with people?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh and culture.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_09: One of the things why we're preaching these these four Sundays on culture is that uh they might be a great leader, but do they lead in a way that we hope a Woodlands church family home group's gonna be so there is a kind of culture that we're looking at, welcoming a warm, authentic, uh empowered by the Holy Spirit.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh that's kind of we're uh going for and empowered and expectant, expectant, expectant uh that God's a God who's on the move, and that he's yeah, and so um are people okay with that kind of culture or are they going to have a different kind of culture?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_09: Again, there's there's all kinds of churches do all kinds of things all kinds of different ways, which which is fantastic.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_09: But if you're trying to run a kind of uh a Bible study in a fairly traditional kind of uh half an hour presentation, all the scriptures kind of actually prime our culture, kind of um, if you think that it's just this way on the highway, uh probably Mr.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_09: Both Animus that we hold the tension sometimes of uh of kind of even within group discussions, actually, we're not saying there's a wooden's party line, you've got to believe this on everything theological, moral, ethical, whatever it is.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, actually, no, we we are used to holding the tension.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_09: There's a bit of culture to um hold as well.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_09: So, in looking for leaders, probably we're looking for those things.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_09: I think number one is definitely that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_09: Probably they had to have some little confidence.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_09: Not totally sure about chemistry because I think sometimes chemistry um is I mean, maybe even where some of the kind of spiritual abuse things actually there was a sort of people, there was a chemistry there that maybe was slightly unhelpful, and actually the sense of um we love one another like brothers and sisters, but actually maybe your brother and sisters there's a bit of chemistry, maybe there isn't, you just gotta love them because they're your brothers and sisters.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_09: I think sometimes within church, I think um, but I do understand that's that's that the way some teams work might that but certainly within the culture that we have.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_09: Um can ask the question.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what like what how do you navigate um you were saying like we have different theological approaches, um, which is fine, but what if there's like certain if people have all of those things that like they have specific views on things that probably wouldn't necessarily uh be teaching or reading it?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um what how do you navigate that would that just be a conversation or because obviously we're gonna have to have them like yeah I think I think there's some things that that we would definitely hold to.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_09: And so if if there's a small group that sits on this thought well Jesus often uniquely the Son of God, in some ways we're all like Christ's sons, whatever.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_09: I think, oh hang on, uh kind of so there'll be some some kind of fairly core central doctrinal things that we probably would if there's things around kind of uh baptism uh or kind of um yeah, people's perceptions on um gay marriage or on perceptions on uh environmental concerns or kind of um politics.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_09: Again, there's some things we think, oh of course you can have your opinions, but don't teach them as if this is the only opinion and somehow this is the opinion.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, we're free to have discussions, and and the reality is within SLT, I mean we'd have a range of views about sovereignty of God, uh free will, kind of there'd be a spectrum of thoughts.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_09: Um, uh again, around some of the moral issues, again, there'll be some spectrum of thought.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_09: Uh again, and there's a tension to hold there.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_09: So if there was a home computer who was saying, no, it's definitely this, again, that would be a cultural thing that we'd probably say, oh actually, um, and have a chance to uh to to talk to them um would be great.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_09: I know.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um video shows, isn't it?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_09: Oh right, it's in video, yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_09: Um is that is that's good.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_09: I don't is that fair enough, Rachel?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_09: Rachel Rachel is important.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_09: Would that be fair Rachel from Yes, I would agree with that.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: In the I I think more like um like I'm a young adult so we can say this, but it's channel.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: But um, like sometimes like people or talk about like sex people management and be like, oh, it's not a big deal.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like whereas actually there's certain leaders have been like that is a big deal.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's like actually if you're asking them to be a leader but they uh strongly disagree with certain things, it's like wow, okay, how do you manage that within that group uh like yeah, leader alike leaders?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_09: Um I think that I think that there would be in in looking for leader and and partly going back to that kind of um character list, uh, to see what what are some of the things that that are there and um uh and for some of those things it is hard to um hard to measure are they drinking too much or not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_09: Well unless you happen to see them at a party where they're blind drunk, it's it's it's quite hard to gauge.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_09: Um again with um uh with sexual activity, uh again, it's really hard to say what people are up to.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, if they choose to to move in with a partner and they're not married, actually there that is observable then, and and you can have a little conversation around that kind of so I thought I think there's some things, it's not that again we're looking for character, we're looking for realizing I'm bringing my life under the lordship of Jesus, and as a leader, you need to lead the way in that, and how's that happening?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh, so yeah, and I think sexual morality is probably something that we would have a conversation with, and and if there was a kind of oh yeah, sex before marriage is fine.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_09: If if a home leader was saying that, actually there would be a conversation uh about about about that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_09: Um in the same as kind of yeah, if you're uh stressed and anxious, go and get blind drunk, it'll really help.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_09: You think actually we'll have something to say about that as well.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_09: Kind of so so we don't just pick on certain things that are the kind of the uh oh, Christians have got a problem with sex, haven't they?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_09: Well, no, actually there's lots of things going on that I think we might say something's around.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um do you mind if Chris's filming for the WCF video?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: If anyone doesn't want the NBA to be, it's just you'll film on the black.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: So we don't want the interest of that animal on this.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: Is that very involuntary to it?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_09: If it's behind it in the back of your head most of the time, most of the and anything anything else on on um on that with identifying leaders, skills, gifts.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_09: Um again, it's um it's a trajectory that we were on rather than a destination you've reached.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_09: I I think.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_09: Because again, sometimes we can talk about this and think, oh, actually I I'm not gonna be good enough to be a leader, but actually it it's it's I see here somebody who's actually they're trying to work on a character.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_09: It's not that they've got it all sussed out, but actually they are trying to, they're they're being genuine and being honest about it, and they're being accountable and and and uh you know being mental, what what whatever it is.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_09: I I think if if there's a little kind of uh yeah, cover covering up stuff, hiding stuff, that's a little bit kind of a little bit trickier.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's a lot of reason it's so there is that I would put all those four out of right at the top of the most important thing.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just think about like people leading worship as an income.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a range of people with a range of different useful capabilities.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I'd always rather someone need with integrity and passion for worship than lead well, but I mean well like technically, yeah, but not really can.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_09: No, I I think on on these things, if if I um in my if I had a failure in my competence, so say say I preach, and one Sunday I preach the worst sermon ever, people are probably gonna think, oh never mind, Tim will probably be better next time.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_09: I hear him kind of well, suppose if if I have a failure in my character, I've I've had an affair, oh never mind, I'm sure it'll be better next time.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_09: Uh no, a failure in competence is can be easily, like you say, it can be easily forgiven, and and but actually a failure in character for a leader is actually more kind of important.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_09: Um, so I think you're right to have that.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_09: For me, that would always be at the top there.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_09: Even if however charismatic of personality they are, however great they are, however strong a Bible moments they've got, kind of actually the confidence things have always got to be secondary to the character.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_09: Um, and and that's really challenging when you're can be sometimes desperate for a good leader.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, there's somebody who is the life and soul of the party, there's somebody who is kind of has got a personal charisma, but actually, if you sense anything that's a character fall there, putting them into a space of responsibility is actually a danger to them and actually not doing them any favours at all or the group in the end.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_09: Um so uh yeah, competence chemistry is always would be below the character kind of thing.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_05: And actually, when you look at the disastrous sort of falls from grace in the church, it's character.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, yes, yeah, it's not that they've played enough chord in the worship band or they've given a bad sermon.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, people will get over that quite quickly, um, because we've heard lots of bad sermons and kind of uh but I think there's something uh about capacity there as well, because like I know my character is a lot more flawed when I'm maybe tired and so like if my character if if my my labor in the game but I'm going through a lot of that, it's like so in contact I was saying, like if you were part of the prime ministry but you were having a really tough week, you would rather you wouldn't go up and be part of the prime ministry.
• 42:01
  unknown: It would seem like you didn't have the capacity to pay for somebody else because you were a pickle yourself.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_07: So there's something about kind of capacities in as well.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, yeah, but capacity.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, another C.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_09: So I have a capacity is the fifth one because you could okay.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_09: We've got about 15 minutes.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_09: Um so Rich, just want to just the practicalities if you've if you've identified somebody, if you've thought actually, yeah, the character they're on the right trajectory, if you've caught something out of them, now comes the point of okay, how am I going to release them?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_09: How am I going to go about seeing them in six months' time, being able to lead a whole group?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_09: What what process is it going to go through?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_09: Is that a great idea?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, going to not press the right button at the right time, so that's totally fine.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, so like Jim said, imagine that you have some people in your group and you're thinking, oh, this is they've got your attention.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_05: You're thinking, actually, there's something in them that I think could be developed into leading maybe this group, or maybe they could we could divide the group and they could take some people and lead over there, or maybe they could start a brand new group from scratch.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_05: How do I get them from here to here?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_05: And that takes a little bit of intention and thought about how to do that.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_05: And you might have come across this even in your work sort of setting, um, and the sort of step one is you know, I I'm I'm gonna do it.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm leading the home group or in in team, hopefully, that's the ideal situation.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_05: I'm doing it, and um, hopefully, I'm doing a good job.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_05: I've been towards the leadership training sessions, and I'm well prepared every week, and there's always great biscuits and good good stuff.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_05: And then you are you've invited somebody to learn from you and to enter into this sort of like apprentice.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: Relationship, and if you think about Jesus, he it took him three years.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, and that was Jesus.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but Tim's given us six months, so you know, we haven't got long, but um, you know, Jesus kind of had had his men, didn't he?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_05: His disciples and his women actually, but think of the twelve, and they were doing life with him.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_05: And what were they doing the whole time?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: They were watching what he was doing, and they were learning from him, and they were kind of figuring out, Oh, do you see it this way?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_05: That's interesting.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_05: And so the next so step one, really, well, step two, I guess, is actually you invite someone in to watch you, you invite somebody in to kind of see what you're doing and to ask you, oh, why did you do it that way?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: And when you did that Bible study on whatever, you ask those questions like that, and then we split this into twos.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_05: Why did you why did you do it in twos?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you have this sort of like informal slash formal relationship where you're asking them to watch you, and also you're inviting feedback from them and and questions, and sort of saying, Ask me any question you want, and I'll try and give you the answer.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_05: And if they don't know the answer, we'll try and figure it out together.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_05: So, step one's I do it, as an you know, you're doing it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: Step two is I'm gonna do it, and you watch me, and honestly, that does sharpen you up a little bit.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_05: I've got to do this really well.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_05: I've got to think about questions, I've got to get the best biscuits, but it it kind of does help you be a little bit intentional.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_05: So, step three is um we do it together.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: So we will think about next week's home group.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we're gonna meet beforehand, uh, the week before, or you know, the few days before, depending on how you figure it out.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: And actually, we're gonna look at the home group notes that have been sent out well in advance from church, and we're gonna look at them together, and we're gonna decide oh, which bit do you think you'd like to do, and which bit would I like to do?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_05: And actually, maybe the new person is thinking, Oh, I really I just don't feel very comfortable doing any of this, but you think actually you could do the icebreaker, you could bring the cookies, you could make the tea, you could do the welcome, you could get the map, everyone to sit in the circle and say say their one thing, or actually, you're really up ready for ready to go, you do the Bible study, or you read the passage, you get the get the questions, and again you you discuss it together, you do it, and then again you ask for feedback.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_05: So it's it's quite a sort of slow.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_05: This is not all in one week, obviously.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_05: Tim's given us six months, so uh so you can kind of plan it as you go, and not you don't want to overstretch anyone, you know, that like you're having a bad week, or they're having a bad week.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, we can't do it this week, I'm feeling a bit stressed, or I'm not very well, they're not very well, so they can't do it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_05: So it will take a bit of time.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_05: If you're only meet every other week, that's going to take more time as well.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: But there's this there's this slow incremental steps, and each time you're taking a new step, you're inviting them to bring their questions to give feedback, and you're and you're also asking permission to give them feedback.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_05: And this is the thing, I think the feedback loop is the thing that can be a bit tricky because if you're really you kind of struggle a bit to be clear, and um when I say critical, I mean like positively, positively critical, you know.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_05: So some of us might lean more towards saying, Oh, that wasn't very good, that wasn't very good, and you just go like that.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, we all know that you've got to see the feedback sandwich, two positives with one negative.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it's like five positives to one negative.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_05: I've got to remember that because I'm often the other way around, like two negatives to one positive.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_05: The good feedback leap, and actually, you know, you don't want to say what the five things that weren't very good when you did it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_05: Well, this, this, this, and this.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_05: You want to say, This was great, this was great, this was great.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe next time you can just kind of develop that little bit a bit better and have a bit of a conversation about it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: So, are you with me?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_05: I do, I do you watch, we do together, and then okay.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_05: Next week, home group, it's an easy one, it's how to I don't know, unpack the book of lamentations.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_05: You've got this, it's gonna be absolutely gonna smash it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm willing you to, I'm crazy, I'm fasting for you this week.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it might be that you want to have you want to talk through with them the study beforehand.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_05: You say, Talk me to it, comes or send me a WhatsApp voice note, tell me what you're gonna do, if it's okay, I can give you some feedback on what I think I'm hearing.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you make it easy for for the upcoming leader, and then you let you you release them into the wild, and you sit on your hands and you bite your tongue, and you don't just jump in when you want to, and you just you just watch and you observe, and then you meet for coffee three days later, or you have a phone call and say, How did you find it?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_05: Did you enjoy doing it?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: and they're like, No, it's hideous, and I forgot my notes, and it was all my mind, and you're like, No, you did great, it was really good, and you give them one bit of feedback that is like next time do this, but these are all the great things you did, and so slowly incrementally, you are just taking your emerging leader, the leader that you think, oh, I think they could really grow in this, um, do the I do, I do you watch, we do, you do I watch, and then you do, and but and then you know, obviously, it's not as neat as that, is it?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_05: I'm making it sound neat, but if we if we all do this, I'm I'm speaking to myself by thinking about the groups that I'm leading and the hang group that I'm leading with Melissa, is thinking about actually who could I intentionally think could come through this process?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_05: And some of our a lot of people in our group are really new.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_05: Bye, Chris, thank you.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_05: I really knew Christians, and you know, they're not going to be leading your home group yet, but they've got like loads of potential and could be leading your home group, you know, in the next year or 18 months.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so it's a really good little kind of step-by-step phase, and sometimes it goes wrong, and the people you pick you know don't do it very well, or they're not up for it, or it kind of, you know, Jesus had 12, and one of them ended up betraying him, so I think you know it's it's okay when it gets a bit messy, but I think if we are intentional, and the reason I said earlier on about sometimes a crisis forces you to think about who could lead because I think there have been some times in my life where that has kind of like pushed me to think, actually, if I wasn't here, who could do it?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_05: Who would I rely on to kind of do the study or to do this welcoming or to bring the food tonight or to you know lead the prayer time?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes we get stuck in a bit of a rut and we just go through the emotions, not in a bad way, but we we don't kind of like like you were saying, Trish, about you know, saying, Okay, who's gonna need the study next week?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_05: And have the awkward silence and make someone say, Yeah, I mean okay.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_05: They keep saying yes, maybe they're the next emerging leaders, maybe this person is the person that's gonna be leading this home group or leading the next home group.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_05: So any that's all for me.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_05: Any questions?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_05: I may sound very easy, but I know it's not but it kind of does work to you.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a few like that.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got some of the uh confidently contributed.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not in a uh capacity, capacity space uh need some support to do against somebody else.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that other person may not also be in our group.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean the pastor.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_05: I I I don't know how you put people, how would you how would you organise things as you actually put people together and and actually move to that is actually a really live question right now because we have um a couple of home groups that are full and there are people and we have the million outs, I'm thinking about the million hours.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um that is full of fact, and then steam shell channel.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_05: The home group's full, they'd like to they'd like to multiply, and they've got one person that goes to lead the next home group, but they haven't got another person to lead the home group.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_05: So I think sometimes we have that.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_05: So you have one leader that's ready to go, but it needs somebody else, or you have two people to come meet with them.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so I think if you could if you identify those leaders and then you're speaking and letting us know who they are.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, Jake, our associate pastor, he used to be, is our new uh mid-week uh group pastor.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_05: So it would be like, hey Jake, I've got this guy, I've got this woman, or got this, you know, whoever.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think they they're they're interested in exploring the possibility, and then have a conversation with Jake or Rachel or whatever, and think about once you've identified the person, then it's a conversation really.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_05: It's not like, well, okay, off you go, you might have a leader for now, and so who does she say?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_05: And no, it's like yeah, it's a conversation really, and then we've got we've got a new leader and we've trained it to a facilitated set of teaching videos that people can watch on the company, or they can do it together as a little group.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_05: So there is I I think we've not always been good at doing this, of releasing leaders and getting them going, but I think with having Jake in place and make resources on the academy, we want to be better being able to do that.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's really hard.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't get anyone in a situation that anyone.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: So do you do you have any church spaces?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_05: There are depending on what night it is, there are there are spaces in church that can be put.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um definitely if it's free, it's it's really a priority to give spaces to home food.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um so it is.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_05: And the other thing is we have people that kind of go to cafes or that have walls that's not the kind of cafe it is, you know, that aren't really longevity drink is fine and free.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of a lot of people definitely come across cafes like that that are happy to have great meat.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I think we don't want to I mean space it is an issue for sure, but we want to kind of think creatively about how we can solve that people.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_09: So it's absolutely happening.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: How would you have this?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um building uh like quality wave.
• 55:16
  unknown: What was it?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: But like you have like the idea of perfection and like your heart as well.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think sometimes we I think we're all very blessed to go to churches that are very like well resourced, you know, like the worship at the front grain, but uh, I don't know if it's resoundable to resoundable and very set up.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: But like you know, the worship's right, the preaching's really good, and then you kind of come in on and then we can it's just puzzled.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: You are doing that full time.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think partly is about this is about building culture within the communities of when not looking for perfection.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: But how do you balance that?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes people can get a bit focused on that, and almost like sometimes in our community, in our group, we have people who they really want to give feedback, which is positive, but sometimes it's almost like we don't need to give the difference, which is fine.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's also like we don't need to constantly look for a reason to find the feedback anyway.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Almost we have been like this helped the process like we'll find something maybe we've done always make it better.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like we don't need to always make it better.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we find that balance?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, great question.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_05: I think one of the things that I often think, and maybe we don't say it enough, is that midweek church is not meant to be church, it's not meant to be it's not meant to be church in someone's home, and um it's meant to be different, it's meant to be, and I know you know this, but it's like maybe we need to articulate it more, but it's not meant to be mini church with great worship, and um you know it's not meant to be a place where people preach.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_05: It's really not, you know, the preaching happens on the Sunday, midweek is where we all get to play, we all get to join in, we all get to do a little bit.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I think maybe we don't articulate that enough.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_05: So people's expectations, it's even a pastor is going to be a great worship experience.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: I think you've got one guy in your top or one girl in your top, and you haven't even got the words.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_05: So I think it's most of it's we don't have that.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly, yeah, we have a top or so I think oh I know, and that that does throw it out a little bit, is it actually filled with the worshipers here?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_05: And say, we're not even gonna sing, we're gonna do worship in a completely different way.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna read a start, we're gonna read it one time, we're gonna read it a third set time, we're gonna read it a second time, we're gonna have a bit of five months, we're gonna have a bit of music on a and uh on the iPhone.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna say that's interesting and that's another question tonight.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think we try to educate Sunday church in uh Wednesday Therese weeks, yeah, where we're kind of just reinforcing on the head.
• 58:06
  unknown: So you can't watch me there in the game.
• 58:11
  unknown: But um most of it's happened.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_09: We come on Sunday.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_09: Sunday church, we come for excellence, public church, we come from inclusion.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_09: So I probably would say that Public is a church, it's just you do church every yeah on a on a first planet and you do all that.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_09: Um and yeah, inclusive.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_09: So yeah, no, I enjoy doing some of the classes here, and I think actually some notices.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, we will give notice about that on Sunday because but that's fine, because these are all mates and uh about what's coming up next and what I think that that's so you're not looking for the same excellence slick kind of whatever because we've just owned Jesus together with this kind of stuff.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I also think the great unique thing about these communities is that it's so relational, and that's why we it's not just that like we can't make it like a sun, it's that we don't want it to look anything like a sun.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: We want it to be that if if someone's sharing something about their life and we need to get around and pray for them and support them and do things that we're so willing to get right.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll throw whatever you know, whatever notes that we had planned for this.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna really focus on the relational aspect of kind of supporting this person and praying for them and seeking God for them.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and because you know, these groups are all about kind of doing faith together as a community.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the key things is being so you know open about the fact that actually we are we are just a group of people that are wanting to love God and love each other and go on that journey together, and that's gonna look you know, it's gonna look different, it might be messy often because we have messy lives and there's so much going on, and I think setting those expectations of what are we wanting from this is really important if we want our groups to kind of flourish in that sense of community.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's the level of demand for uh for home groups?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know honestly we'd like everybody who attends church to be in home group, but I'm just asking how many people are asking to be in home groups.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yes, I probably get and JC gonna get the emails on me.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_05: I probably get about three or three or four emails a week asking about hate groups just directly to the website people who would use, but Melissa kind of handles a newcomer's flow of newcomers who are coming.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: What would you say?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's not I think we've got quite a this is kind of our most quiet season in terms of people wanting hate groups, um but it soon keeps up again to August.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: So basically you want to be back on that.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: So when you get to August, August goes down till September.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um but I mean we've probably got about 20 people just now to join a homework that are waiting.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um allocate some of those tomorrow.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: But um Young Adults, so it's so much easier to allocate to young adults, it's actually better to be young adults, but it's harder to I would say it's harder to facilitate that.
• 1:01:48
  unknown: But I don't know how many chat a little bit.
• 1:01:52
  unknown: I honestly don't know.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_04: It it kind of I think for me it feels like it's never-ending, but that's because it's you know people come in each time, and there's always people, you know, the tribe hanging with you, it's not quite for them, so then you try and find the uh all they want the demographic location that you want it to be.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_05: Some people basically think can I have this on a chair?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so you can get to have to work out what's the best, or sometimes you allocate someone as another like the group readers and that actually it doesn't it's not quite working.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_04: So um I think the weaknesses which you it's not too bad at the moment we try and get them in quite quickly, or but it helps out with Tim's like Bible study kind of um it's another thing for them to go to whilst they're waiting.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_09: So it's my quarterback.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_09: Uh so um uh yeah, just I just want to say a bit about some uh some new video resources um that we've got.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_09: Uh again, it's partly to help in that phase when you've identified somebody, maybe you've had a little go at coaching, but you think, okay, if we're going to let them fly to the lead home group, what what kinds of things do they need to know?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_09: Um so we've we've got uh little series of um uh of eight short videos.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_09: Uh so if you go onto the uh Woodn't Church Net slash midweek dash leaders dash resources, um there's uh eight little videos.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_09: They're about kind of between five and ten minutes long.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh and well if I could just show you if you've got something who's thinking about kind of could be a hundred, you've done a little bit of the I do, you watch, you watch I do, voilà.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_09: Uh if you think okay, um then send them to that site, uh, get them to watch the little videos.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_09: When they've filled in their little things, their little booklets, so the downloadable booklet you can click on, download it, and fill in your answers, email it to you as the 100 reader or to pass reader, uh, have a chance to meet up and chat and think, okay, here's some things that uh you've reflected on, and oh great, you've got that.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_09: Well, or here's a few things maybe to help chat or maybe chat to to Jake or to somebody just to kind of fill those in.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_09: And actually, we're we're hoping that's gonna be a source to help people to get a little feel of what it means to lead a home group within Norton's church family.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_09: Um uh so do have a little look at that.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_09: I really appreciate your prayers that kind of home groups do get this idea of how do we how do we multiply, how do we grow?
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_09: Actually, if God is on the move and we believe that he is, actually, there's a a challenge for all of us to say, how do we see the life of Jesus continually being reproduced in more and more people?
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_09: How do we find this place of community where life from life we can follow Jesus together?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_09: It's it's great that people just show up here on a Sunday come to our church services, that's wonderful.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_09: But actually that's not gonna disciple them uh following Jesus.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_09: We're gonna need uh small groups.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_09: So would love you to be praying for just pray uh for us and um then we'll finish that.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_09: So