Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.276: Venture Capital for Beauty Brands 101 and tips for founders and entrepreneurs ft Rachel Brink

Transcript

E.276: Venture Capital for Beauty Brands 101 and tips for founders and entrepreneurs ft Rachel Brink · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is brought to you by Bonnet.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your business needs more than an 800 number.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: With Bonnet Voice API, you can provide the call experience your customers expect and get the take your code.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: From call analytics and virtual assistants to automatic speech recognition that text to speech in multiple languages.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Your customer service team can help more people in more places.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And with Inapp Voice, your customers can easily contact you the moment they have a question.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take your calls to the next level with Vonage Voice API.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Learn more at Vonage.com.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so our first episode, I just wanted to remind you that we do have the first episode of our masterclass about everything's gonna help with the iconic Jan Murray.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So just stay tuned for that.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's coming up in just a few days.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the topic for the first episode is acne, and I think you guys are gonna love it because Jen really goes into the nitty-gritty of understanding how everyone we get acne, whether it's you know teenage acne or adult acne and just really the you know the preventative side of things.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is gonna be a really great class for anybody, you know, whether you're um you know trying to prevent adult acne or trying to help your teenager deal with their teenage acne, you know, just tune in and I'm sure you'll learn something um new.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I definitely did when I was interviewing her.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I just wanted to remind you guys, but enjoy the episode coming up.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've really this has actually been a long time in the making, and I've been trying to um grab a spot on our guest schedule um today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you to uh the general partner and founder of Red Bike Capital, Rachel Tenbrink.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Rachel.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited you're here.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to be here.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a it's you know, it's so cool for me to host you because I have so many questions and like, you know, I'm gonna totally like nerd out and pick your brain, but I want to get started because I know that you are a like a boss lady in the career, you know, aspect.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to learn all about your career journey and how it started and what did you go to college for and you know, all the good stuff.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can take us down memory lane, that would be uh really cool to learn on.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was born and raised in Costa Rica.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: My parents are, you know, Cuban immigrants, and I definitely think that you know had a huge impact in who I am and how I think about things.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um kind of long story short, I uh my my parents left Cuba in the 60s, you know, right when Castro came and uh, you know, left with nothing, uh, were educated here in the States, and then my dad got a job offer and ended up in Costa Rica.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I was born.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad was an entrepreneur, he was in the seafood business.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think it's funny because one of the things I always talk about of like what shaped my thinking is I grew up on Sunday afternoons going to the supermarket and checking out who would pick up my dad's brand of canned tuna.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, it was the first dolphin-safe tuna.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: This was in the 80s, 90s.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it was a big deal.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, think that sort of obsession with how consumers thought and what made people tick is something that really was very much ingrained very early on in me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I came to the States when I was 18 for college.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Babson College.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, one of the big reasons I went to Babson is because it had a very strong entrepreneurship program.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I always knew I wanted to start a business.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it just took me a while to get there, but but that's kind of later in the story.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so after graduating from Babson, I spent the next, you know, I was at Gillette and then I did my MBA at Columbia, which is where I met my partner for the fund, Herman, and then spent the next 15 years of my career building, you know, billion-dollar brands.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a lot of the brands that that you talk about in your show, I was at Estee Lauder, I was at L'Oreal, I was at Elizabeth Arden.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's really an incredible experience learning from some of the best in the industry.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, that's you see, this is exactly like the kind of um guest I want on the show because I want to know how your brain works because that is like huge, you know, working with brands that are not just, you know, you didn't just build them up, they're iconic, you know, they they're irreplaceable.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, I would love for you to like kind of go through your process with us, you know, in terms of like what is it that like attracts you to a brand or you know, what is what what's the first thing that goes through your mind when you're thinking of, you know, whoever you're working with or you know, your clients?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think that it's it's been an interesting journey because it's one piece of the process was when I thought about it as an entrepreneur and I was, you know, the co-founder of Scentbird and and that sort of, you know, finding that niche, that white space in the market.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the next iteration of that is right now as a venture capitalist, where you think about the white space and the niche in the market, but you also think about scalability and how big can this idea really get?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's see, that's really interesting for me because I wonder, it's like, you know, how do how do brands or how do I guess, you know, from your perspective, like, do you determine the value of something, right?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like predicting the the growth and predicting like how much consumers will be attracted to it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is that whole process?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what goes behind that?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, for us in Red Bike, we try to be very focused and very process oriented because the truth is early stage venture, um, it's hard, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even the best of the best, we know that nobody has 100% hit and not every startup will be a huge success, but you try to have the best ratio possible.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, we really think about, you know, we call it an operator-driven metrics choice system.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means is sort of combining the rigor of numbers and sort of the analytics, but also the common sense questions and the experience of having been a founder and having sort of seen, you know, highly high-achieving teams and what it takes to do that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, if if you want me to kind of walk through sort of our box, our red box, it really starts, you know, the first step is team.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really, you know, when you look at early stage venture, looking at the founders, looking at whether they have the life experience, the unique perspective to build something exceptional, I think it's incredibly important.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also think it's very important for them to have the ability to deliver.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh if there's one piece of advice I always give founders is, you know, go build.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the founders that spend way too much time sort of talking and thinking and planning and strategizing, at some point you have to go out and build and you know, demonstrating that ability to build.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's sort of this weird, you know, I always call it like this dichotomy of on the one hand, it's uh this, you know, belief in your vision that you're gonna like bash through walls, but at the same time, you have to have that humbleness and ability to listen to your customer so you can be super adaptive and pivot really fast if you need to.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an interesting sort of personality that can achieve these high performance teams.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, so going back to our red box, we spend a lot of time on team.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the second sort of criteria that we look at is really thinking about is the problem real and is it big enough, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times you see founders where they have a solution and they're sort of looking for a problem, or they've identified a white space.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, that's great.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's a teeny tiny category, it might not be right for venture.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: It might be right for other types of funding and and they might build a very good lifestyle business.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: But for venture style returns, you need really, really large categories that can really scale and that people really need.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the next sort of piece of the puzzle is the business model, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we look at, you know, what's your cost of acquisition?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's your lifetime value?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, how do you drive revenue?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is there is there a kind of a sound business model behind this?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if if you're not building a sound business model, then, you know, uh you're not going to be around and I'm not going to be able to help you.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I think that's really important.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say step four is really around valuation and exit potential.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's an interesting time that we're in right now where there's a lot of uncertainty in the market and there's definitely been adjustments in the public markets.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that to me, it's actually a good thing because I think it brings more discipline, more focus, more flight to quality, and we can be pickier than ever in picking the best startups that have, you know, the right sort of risk reward.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say the last two, just to kind of finish up our box, is around traction and trajectory.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So as I was saying, you know, I think that ability to even at a small scale, even early on, start to build, start to drive traction, start to create proof points of how this company scales, how this team delivers, is super important.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the last piece for us at Red Bike is can we add value?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to be hands-on investors, we want to leverage our expertise, particularly around growth and revenue, to help the companies that we invest in scale.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's really what we're about.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so if it's a company where we really just can't add any value, then it's probably not the right fit for us.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So so those are sort of the, I would say that's really the matrix.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what we do is, you know, we try to be very quantitative and rigorous.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we do like we assign a value to every one of these six dimensions, and that's how we decide what we want to invest in.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: How do you like, okay?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So this is my biggest question, um, Rachel, because I, you know, we have brands that like come out, right?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then they like almost create a niche just by the fact that they came out.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I, for example, I I just interviewed Dr.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Dennis Gross.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, as most people know, one of his most iconic products was that Peels white.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know if you've ever tried the Peels, but like they're like, it's like a, you know, you use it and it like it's a one-time use thing and it's an easy, it's an easy way.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I remember when that came out, it really created a whole market for these products.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're evaluating, like, for example, like a skincare brand approaches you or something, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, what, how do you determine like whether it's gonna really be the next big thing?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because all I ever hear is like, well, you know, trends are established by magazines or trends are established by influencers, but then I get confused about where the funding aspect comes in and how the professionals really analyze the potential, you know, how you guys really come up with, you know, is this trend gonna take off or not?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're looking for proof points, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking for what is the possible, you know, how do we de-risk our investment?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: We want to pick pick winners.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so as much as you can understand that early traction, as much as you can, you know, I think part of it, frankly, particularly when you're looking at beauty and and products, and and we invest across, you know, fintech and and e-commerce, but I think on on the product side, I think it's really important to be an educated consumer that can actually try the products, that can actually uh differentiate, understand the differentiation, understand what's special about them.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely don't invest in a brand that I haven't tried the product.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's super important to actually be a customer and actually think, could I use this product?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's part of it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think to your question about like how do you tell what's the next big thing?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: How can you tell the next great trend?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's part of my job is to be, you know, I'm always a student of consumer trends.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm constantly trying to understand what are these early inclinations.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the really great founders are able to articulate that vision, are able to say, look, you know, you know, uh chemical peels uh have been happening at doctors' offices.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're too harsh, they leave your face all red.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But here's how we've envisioned this for the consumer, and this is how we think this actually scales.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where it it really matters a lot.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: That really makes sense.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it and it kind of goes back to your point that you were making about you really have to put in the work as a founder.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to put in the thought and the work and the the content and the material that has to be there.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes sense.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just wonder because you know, there's so much like blame gain, you know, in so many industries with brands.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I've talked to a lot of founders and you know, everyone's always like, well, what about, you know, I never know, like, I I don't know the first thing about venture capital.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, you know, and I always end up saying, well, I don't know anything either.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: But my guess is that you gotta really figure out what it is you're trying to do here, you know, first.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes sense to me.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my big my biggest question though really falls on these like statistics that we always hear about, you know, how black businesses only get a certain percentage or venture capital funding or like, you know, these kind of things.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know they're real stats, but like I just want to get your take on it, just your point of view or um, you know, not necessarily for your company, but just in general, um, in the space about that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here's the way I answer, and and you know, it's not just blacks.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think Latinos are the most underrepresented.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the size of the population, we're almost 19% of the US population.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: We are 30% of Gen Z.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look, and we get even less VC funding than African Americans.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I think it's it's across the board, it's it's a real issue.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for me, there's a couple of things.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Look, one is you need to diversify both sides of the table.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the number one way you can help more minority founders get funding is find more minority investors who understand these markets.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's, you know, I look at it like it's not charity, it's not uh anything, you know, it's real business opportunities.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand where, you know, black and Latino women are, you know, driving, particularly in the beauty markets.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at how they over-index, I mean, Latinas over-index, I think it's 4x in the fragrance category.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: African Americans, it's like 9x in the hair care category.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, these are real dollars.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is real money that's being made in these with with these communities.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it's really important to know your numbers, to have those proof points.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, sadly, to get more investors, to get more people on the other side of the table who are gonna give uh you know diverse founders a fair shake, who are gonna understand these markets.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other side of it is to your point about you know, taking responsibility, is look, the way I say it is, you know, we I am a Latina, I am 0.1% of venture, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: As a uh there are 0.1% general partners that are Latina women.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, I'm like, you know, uh a rounding error.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the way I think about it is I invest in the best, period.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you look at my companies, 80% of them have a woman or diverse founder.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think they're the best, and I invested in the best company.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's, you know, different approaches.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: There are some people who specifically invest in certain groups.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: There are people like myself who just say, look, we're gonna invest in the best, but we're gonna give everybody a fair shake, and our numbers prove it.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then on the founder side, I think it's really important to know that yes, you are gonna have to be over-prepared.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you are gonna have to, you know, it's almost like over-preparing yourself, making sure you know your statistics, making sure you you have sort of that ability to prove your business because you will be challenged.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I think that's just the reality.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are somebody who's truly prepared for that, you do so much better, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I always say for me, my favorite quote is there's a quote about uh Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: They were famous uh dancers, I think, in the 40s.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that it's that, you know, Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Estare did, but she did it backwards and it heals.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's basically what you're gonna have to do.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do it backwards and it heals.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever that everybody else is doing, you're gonna have to do it backwards and it heals.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So being that much better prepared, I think, is super important.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then the final piece of advice that I would give you is be really smart and thoughtful about how you present information and how you connect with your audience.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the examples that I always love to give is when we started centered and we started to pitch investors, um, we started to talk about the fragrance category, and it was 99% white men.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because 99% of venture capitalists white men, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just is what it is.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we talk about fragrance and it'd be like, eh, is that a big enough category?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there enough of an opportunity?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Not sure.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: My wife always uses the same perfume.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: We got all of it.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we were able to address it is, you know, we did our research and we realized, well, the fragrance category is$40 billion, and that's actually almost five times the size of the blades and grazers category, which they were very open to investing in because they understood it, right?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: They understood shaping.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a really important lesson of you know, understand your audience, create points of connection so that they can understand the size and the scale of your business.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's such, yeah, that is like golden uh advice.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that you really dove into that because, you know, for me, I I get very confused about that aspect itself, especially to like, you know, this day and age, because most of the time what I see is either a brand launches based off of like an Instagram following or like a social media following, or they're launching off of just hope that it's gonna develop into a following.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I, you know, I don't know, I start to wonder is like how loyal is the audience that the influencers and the new brand founders that are coming out, like you know what I mean?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: How loyal is that?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And is that a metric that people use to be able to go to funding sources, whether it's venture or not, and say, hey, this is how many followers I have, and I'm thinking this.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what what's your advice on that?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like when someone comes to you and says, This is what I think based on you know a social media following?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that good enough for you, or would you be like, No, I need more proof of who your consumer is?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that the world is changing very fast.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at some point, investors were very happy to accept sort of number of Instagram followers as a proxy of, oh, all these people are gonna buy.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think we've been proven otherwise.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so where while I still think that, you know, taking uh, you know, an audience and building community is incredibly, incredibly important.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh as far as proof points, um you need to prove to me that these are translating into sales because you know, are they really that engaged?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is there fraud?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's, you know, Instagram is rife with with frauds, right?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are these real users and are they really that excited about your product?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, these are the types of things I want to learn about, not just the absolute numbers.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's the quality you're looking for.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the quality?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's really interesting.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I ask is just because I hope, you know, brands can really get the information they need.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not gonna lie, you know, funding is a very gray area.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you had mentioned early in the conversation that there are other sources other than venture.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you mind like sharing those with our audience just so people are aware?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's the big thing, is like they don't know where to go if they are looking for funding.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think everyone just automatically says, Oh, I need venture capital, but they're not gonna give it to me.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, well, have you looked at other avenues?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's more of like, do you even know what the other avenues are?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to give us like a little um rundown if you could.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think it's it's hard.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am not gonna lie, it is extremely hard.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think particularly Right now, uh I would say most funds are being very uh careful about direct-to-consumer and consumer brands.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, whereas it in the past couple of years, I think there was more of an appetite, sort of, you know, looking at Warby Parker and looking at Glossier and looking at even Casper, I think a lot of funds um are now more concerned.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there are funds that are consumer focused, and those are great funds.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I also think that there is venture debt, there is, you know, maybe start small, start with friends and family and small raise a smaller round of money and and get it out there.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very important piece, is and I know that's super hard.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, you know, back to the conversation about minorities, a lot of minorities don't have the wealthy friends and family who can help them.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, if you can sort of find that avenue, find ways to self-fund, um, maybe, you know, start selling as early as you can so you can start generating some level of uh revenue.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are all things to think about.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if you are a minority, there are loans available.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are, you know, other sources of funding.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: There is venture debt.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're just gonna have to get a lot more creative.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I'm not gonna lie, it's it's very hard to find sources, I think, because there's not like one place where everyone lists, you know, just candid advice, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Rachel, it's like, you know, people are always like, well, there's this, but nobody's like able to say what you're saying, which is, you know, the go here or do this.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think a lot of brands come into this, you know, space, whether it's beauty, skincare, whatever, at least from what I've noticed, and they think, well, I'm just gonna, you know, be the nick next big trend or I'm gonna hop onto this kind of and it and it's really like heartbreaking when I see that you know, it just it didn't work out or or whatever, and then they end up blaming funding.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I was going with all of that, because I think you know, we all make excuses as to why, like, you know, a brand doesn't work out or something that we envision doesn't work out, but it's it's really about what you said, which is listen, it is not for the you know, you have to be again, it's like this weird, like super strong, super driven, and at the same time super humble when you are uh an entrepreneur.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and there is, you know, I I think that part of it is well, you know, being very being able to be very real with what resources you have and what you can do and how you can get from point A to point B.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And whether it's build slow, whether it's focus on one segment, even though you want to launch with 12 SKUs, maybe you just launch with three, right?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are different ways of just being hyper focused uh that are gonna help you sort of get to that next step.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and the thing about being an entrepreneur is it's a journey.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not like one and done.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's one of the things I find a lot of entrepreneurs, uh, particularly on the product side, are a little bit naive and think, well, I'm just gonna raise once and it'll take me to profitability and I'll be done.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, think about your cash flow, think about your inventory needs.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, great, you got into Target.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know how much inventory you're gonna need to get into Target?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you understand the payment terms?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Target is not D2C, they're not gonna pay you the moment you ship, right?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so all those things uh are really important in the entrepreneur's journey.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like planning, like you have to be really planned out, you have to know your know every step.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it makes sense.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's just really it's about thoroughness, right, Rachel.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to be thorough.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you expect people to support your vision, you have to make sure that you fully understand every step of the way.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that really bleeds into almost every industry.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, if you don't know where you're going or if you don't know um, you know, what what you're headed towards, it's there's not much that can be done from somebody else's perspective to help.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it it makes sense.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense what you're saying.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to I want to lighten it up a little bit and ask you about some of your favorite like stories.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I know you had mentioned that you um were very much involved with Estee Lauder and some of these huge companies.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um I would love to get your um some of your war stories, maybe, or you know, some of the best memories you have.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think it's so funny because I I was just talking to somebody else about um my experience at both L'Oreal and Estee Lauder, and I think that you know, they were very different.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think L'Oreal was very much about, you know, market competitiveness, studying the consumer, being very data-driven.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those and anybody who's worked at L'Oreal could could have a giggle at this.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these global meetings with the top leadership from France, like you gotta know your numbers.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I was like there during the old school days where we had a little cart you had to drive around with all the product samples.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: God forbid something fell down.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: But there was like uh, again, to the point about like toughening up and and sort of that level of expectation.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot from my time at L'Oreal.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I would say about Lauder that was really interesting and I have huge respect for is this idea of legacy, this idea of building brands for for the ages.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the lessons that I remember uh from Estee Lauder was that Mr.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lauder was very much uh anti-discontinuing products.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: If a product had a loyal following, he hated that we were discontinuing it because he never wanted to disappoint customers.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that focus on sort of building long-term brands and launching things that had sort of that staying power, that was something that was so important and really stayed, has stayed with me for forever.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I mean, I think that both of them are great schools.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think different entrepreneurs come to the journey as a founder differently.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some people, you know, quit undergrad and launch right away.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: For me, the fact that I did have those 15 years of experience with these large companies that I got to see and learn from the best was incredibly helpful and useful in in my own journey.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think that there's no one size fits all, but I think, you know, being very thoughtful and strategic about how it fits and how what it's taught you is very important.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And what about, you know, being a woman in an all-boys club, you know, adventure?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: How's that been?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like just hands over.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I always tell people that, you know, my first sort of aha moment was 2015.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were part of Y Combinator and we were a company.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: We were, we were, we were presenting.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there's 1,500 people in a museum somewhere in Silicon Valley, and there's a break, there's a bathroom break.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I go to the bathroom, and again, I I had, you know, Sentford was only a year old, so I had just left the beauty industry at that point.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I go to the bathroom and I look around and I'm like, what is wrong with this planet where there's 1500 people, there's a huge line for the Ben's bathroom, and there's nobody in the women's bathroom.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is really weird, you know, and that's when it like hit me like a ton of bricks, like, oh, there are really no women investors here, you know, like it really was so few.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think that you have to be smart and outspoken, but I also think you have to find your allies and your friends.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, venture is a very collaborative industry.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's absolutely sharp elbows, but in the end, you know, for the most part, nobody invests in a company alone.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Usually you have co-investors.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really important to build really to sort of show your value ad, show how you can be a really useful investor in the cap table and build alliances, not just with the women-focused funds, but with all funds, right?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if 97% of funds are led by men, then I want to be friends with the 97%.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I also want to be very, very close and I have a great community with that 3%, and it's very important and I find it very nurturing and strengthening.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to kind of, you know, you can't just be so inward looking and just look at the 3%.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: You got to look at the broader picture.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think a lot about that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, I I've always thought about, you know, I've never been afraid of hard work.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been afraid of sort of showing results and and, you know, working my damnedest to be the best of the best.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really how I approach it is like I don't let it intimidate me.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't let it uh get to me very much.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just put my head down and do the best possible investments, show the most value add that I can.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I I think you know that's the way I approach it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, I I when I whenever I have the privilege of speaking to women such as you, I always notice that there's one commonality, and that's just you are a tough cookie.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like you it's like having this thick skin, but still being able to change with the times and change with the, you know, the environment.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that, you know, you are in this position right now where you're such a minority in your field because this is where true mentors come from, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to give us some real, like just any kind of advice to any of the the young professional, young ladies out there that are maybe scared, you know, to to kind of go into this world where it's so male dominated.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, any kind of you know, any input for them.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I what I would say is like don't be afraid to take up space.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think as women, we are so trained to be a little quiet, to be demure, to hold, you know, to keep your thought like no, you just you know, take up as much space as you think you should be taking up.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, when you have ideas, articulate them clearly, be thoughtful, but speak up.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that's what it's really important is you know, that sometimes I think we're our own worst enemies, to your point of like being intimidated.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think women are so critical of themselves.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, get over all that.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just take up space, don't be, don't be afraid to own who you are.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you are capable, you are smart, you are driven, you're powerful.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Use that voice.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's the piece of advice that I always that I always sort of like to to emphasize because I think it's so important to not not not be afraid of your own power, not in a way that puts anybody down, not in a way that, you know, it's not an either or, but it's just about owning your own self-worth and being really, really comfortable in your own skin.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: That I mean that makes sense.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a, you know, that's very difficult to do, you know.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of women strive for that, but it's just we're we're getting there, you know, and it's just it it's interesting to see different, you know, people in different careers go through this, I guess, of evolution, you could say, you know, as well, like we it's almost like I I watch it happen, you know, even in my own field, I watch it happen.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you get I I watch my friends give themselves permission to just be more comfortable, you know what I mean?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they go through this whole whole process.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's yeah, that that's golden what you just said.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I do think that look, I think it's it's easier when you have role models, it's easier when you have friends, it's easier when you see others do it and you go, okay, well, okay, that didn't go so badly.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: She figured it out, so I'm gonna figure it out, right?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think it's it's human uh nature to to look for those um sort of models that you can emulate and great if you can, but sometimes you're just gonna have to depend on yourself and sort of you know put your blinders on a little bit and just go for it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I hope everyone listening and if there are some you know young professionals out there than you guys are interested in venture, like I hope you're listening to what Rachel's saying because yeah, I mean, fear is the worst thing in life.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can't if you're scared of something, that's your biggest challenge is to figure out how to not be scared of it.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I I think people like you, Rachel, are just phenomenal because it's like you've you've gone through that and you've gotten to a point where it's not, you know, you don't buy into the fear-based mentality.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we could all really learn from that, you know.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really commend you for no, I'm not saying it's easy, and I I I'm not saying we don't all sort of second guess ourselves, but you just had to like deep breath, own your space.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like, you know, my my daughter, it's so funny because she I have a 10-year-old daughter, and one day she comes from school and she's like, you know, we're doing this social emotional stuff, and we had to have these quadrants and explain how we felt.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I described myself was happy but calm.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I love that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be happy but calm.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and I think there's so much power in that.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, you're raising a phenomenal young lady.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's cool to see what she does.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think, you know, you know what's crazy is that that really reminds me of this conversation I had a long time ago, which was, you know, we don't have to always be over-emotional.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's okay to be not so emotional as women.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then also if we are emotional, just own up to it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't, I think as women, we love to label, you know what I mean, everything.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, I'm going through this phase of life or I'm going through this.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like learn to realize that, you know, we have so many different facets.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I I like that, you know, your daughter is ahead of the game on that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and you know, it's and let's talk about it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, the founder journey, and this I talk to founders, male and female, and you know, I think what the founder journey is incredibly emotional, incredibly lonely, incredibly exhausting.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the way I describe it is, you know, the highs and lows.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and as we were talking about like my corporate career, I mean, absolutely.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I cared about my work, I cared about, and there were good days and there were bad days, and and you definitely feel it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the experience of being an entrepreneur, like the highs and lows are so augmented, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You feel it so much more because it's your baby.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's that's just how it is.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so part of your job is to make sure you can sort of manage those ups and downs because it's a long journey and you can't sort of exhaust yourself, right?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have to sort of build up your endurance to to keep on going.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's part of of my advice of like owning your space and keeping that, you know, it doesn't mean you don't feel it, but don't let it, you know, take over on the high or the low.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and make decisions based on that.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what that's like, you know, a huge thing.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I agree with you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a that's a very big subject too, because I think a lot of us, not just women, men and women, we all just in the entrepreneur journey, you're right.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's an extremely emotional like time.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I can tell you, even with a podcast, I don't even have any like tangible products.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I go through like days where I'm just like, I'm going to do nothing with my life with this, you know, on the business side.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, I can't imagine what it's like when you're, you know, you're really selling products, like physical products, and you have these like days where sales might not be what you want them to be, or you know, something doesn't fall into place.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, it's definitely a ride.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you sign up for that, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: As an entrepreneur, and and you have to prepare yourself for that.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it goes, yeah.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're gonna have to understand that like a lot of it is in your in you you can change it, a lot of it you can't, yeah, right?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's part of it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: I okay, so I do have a question about um, you know, one more thing about venture, which is um, you know, if you, for example, have you ever worked with a brand or been supporting a brand that um it was like a partnership and then something happens and they, you know, it falls apart, like the partnership falls apart.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like what happens in that situation on a business perspective, especially from your side of it as a you know, as a funding source?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you how do you deal with that?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, tell me that question.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I didn't understand.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: For example, like you funded a brand, right?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then you find out like there it's a partnership in the in terms of ownership of the brand.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there it's two, say, women working together, and then their partnership falls apart at some point.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that something that you guys have to deal with, like as their source thing?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Look, the reality is, you know, co-founder relationships are incredibly hard for exactly the reasons that we were just talking about, right?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: You are very emotional, you're very vested, you have people who have, you know, very strong relationships, and it it happens a lot more than people, you know, care to admit that you know, founder relationships don't work out.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that hopefully when those situations happen, the founders are are thoughtful and and realize that, you know, even if they're not meant to work together, maybe they still own equity in that company and and they want to make sure the company has a future.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really important is to have sort of adult conversations of, you know, when things aren't working out, what do you do?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think part of it is being preemptive and, you know, how you set up your company.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, having a vesting schedule so that all founders need to work at the company for a certain amount of time to own the equity, right?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just day one.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that, you know, if one founder after a year isn't a fit, uh, there's still equity left.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you can bring on another co-founder or somebody senior that's going to be motivated by equity and help the company succeed.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those are really important of like A, having, you know, thoughtful adult conversations about when it happens, B, preparing yourself and having uh a vesting schedule.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and C, you know, I do think that that is sometimes when you do want to have an experienced and trusted investor who can help you mediate, who can help you think through, well, what are your options?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Who can we bring in as a replacement?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do we manage this?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you sometimes have to show your vulnerability.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think that where it gets very hard is when the found when the investors have no idea until the thing blows up, and then maybe there's nothing they can do.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So uh as much as it's a hard conversation, sometimes you do need to bring in the investors early on into that conversation.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, one more question is also like I know right now it's a great time for women um entrepreneurs because I I heard somewhere that the statistics are like, you know, it's one of the all-time highs for women starting their own businesses and kind of like really taking this leap.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm wondering how that looks on your end.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Have you come across more um brands that have approached your firm like that are woman-owned than uh usual?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or has that well, I I will say that I think a lot of it is because of who I am.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I get to be in a lot of rooms that others are not.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that my deal flow has always been extremely diverse.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, lots of women, lots of minorities, and it's something that I think is one of my superpowers, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have that perspective, I have that network.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't know if I can say that I've I've specifically in my own deal flow, but I do think that uh it's exciting to see that there is more of a recognition.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was literally, as we were chatting, a friend of mine just sent me um an article about female founded unicorn companies and how much it's grown.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just in the last year, it's um up, you know, there are 83 uh women found co-founded unicorns, right?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really exciting.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think that there's just more and more sort of frankly, the way I think about it is like a realization that women are an underinvested asset class, right?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of very big businesses to be built by investing in women.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh slowly, painfully slowly, but uh investors are starting to realize that there's that opportunity.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love that change, and I love that it's happening and that you've always been uh you know ahead of the game on that because you know, we need more people like you, Rachel.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: We really do.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: We need people who can think outside the box, you know.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be real.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like you, you know, we can't have change if there aren't, you know, everyone says like you need the right leadership, you need the right people in the right places.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to see that you're one of those people because you know, as women, we we really do have to, I think as people, we have to stick together, right?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: Humanity has to stick together and we have to see the potential in each other.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it makes me feel better knowing that, you know, individuals such as yourself and professionals like you are there because you know, all the rumors you hear, which is like, oh, it's a male-dominated space and it's all white men, and there's no way that a minority woman or you know, whoever can make it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like fear mongering, you know, it's it's so much fear-mongering.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like it's you know, anyone listening, like this is an example.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like Rachel is a shining example that there are still very real people here that will, you know, they can recognize real talent.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love that.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for for coming onto the show, for talking to us.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's been so lovely.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's really been a fun conversation.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really enjoyed it, and I would love to have you back anytime your schedule allows.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, but you know, anytime I can grab an hour, I will for everyone listening.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll bring her back on somehow.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think what I would say is if you do want to connect with me, Twitter or LinkedIn are always the best ways.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you can find me at our 10break one on Twitter or just look me up on LinkedIn.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm always happy to connect with folks.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for offering that.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I would pick her up on that if anyone's listening and has questions um that are you know not being answered by anybody else.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, thank you, Rachel.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: This was so lovely.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone listening, let us know what you thought of the episode.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Leave some comments, some questions if you have for Rachel, and definitely pass them along to her team and um maybe we can do a part two, which uh thank you, Rachel.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast, and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.