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Lee Brainard: Explaining And Defending The Pretribulation Rapture · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey, friends.
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  Family in Christ.
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  Thank you so much for tuning in.
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  Very important topic today.
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  We're going to talk about one of the most abused passages of Scripture as Lee Brainerd,
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  my guest.
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  I just shared before we got on the air here.
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  He's a Bible teacher and author.
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  I want to give you his website if you're not familiar with Lee.
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  I hope you are.
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  But it is soothekeep.info, soothekeep.info.
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  And the book.
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  He's got a brand new book out that's very important that we need to talk about.
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  It's called 10 potent proofs for the pre-tribulation rapture.
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  I love that cover.
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  It is available on Amazon and Lee Brainerd, welcome to World View Matters, good to see
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  your brother.
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  David, it's great to be with you and in your program and manner.
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  We talking about an issue today that is becoming hot potato.
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  Yes, it has.
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  And through the decades, it didn't use me 50 years ago, maybe not as much, but now it's
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  very controversial about the rapture.
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  But I love what you have on their homepage, your website from Jude, 13, earnestly, contend
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  for the faith.
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  And these are some of the issues that we really have to contend for.
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  And as you say, the pursuit, defense, and propagation of truth.
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  So I appreciate you, brother, your writing and the brand new book, Hot Off the Press.
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  Well, wait a minute, I got to read something before we go on.
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  I got to read something.
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  I found something from Terry James.
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  And so when Terry James talks, everybody should listen, he said, well, recently attending
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  the Prophecy Watchers Conference in Colorado Springs at which Lee and I were speakers, my
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  friend Lee Brainerd and I discussed his book, I've since looked at it in depth and concluded
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  that it is one of the best treatments of the pre-trib rapture I've read.
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  Terry James.
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  So that's an eye opener if you know how amazing Terry James and his ministry is to get those
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  fine words to put as a reference there on your Amazon page for the book.
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  So tell us about, first of all, the conferences.
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  You've got a couple coming up in September, I think you said.
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  Go ahead, Lee.
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  Yes.
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  The first weekend in September, I'll be with Brandon Holtaus and his Prophecy.
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  And this conference is going to be covering the subject of what the upcoming election has
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  to say about prophetic convergence.
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  And then the third weekend in September, I'll be with Steve Schmutzer in Fort Collins,
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  Colorado.
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  And we're going to have a number of great speakers there, including JB Hickson, Monica Gonzalez,
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  and a number of other Bible scholars.
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  So should be a great time, folks.
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  Prophetic convergence is getting red hot.
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  Oh, my goodness.
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  Love prophetic convergence are getting red hot.
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  Yeah.
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  Praise God.
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  I mean, that looks just, that looks phenomenal.
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  And I want to mention, I mean, I'm looking at all these guys.
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  I think I've had every one of them on the podcast.
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  I'm looking well, except for Bill Salis.
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  I mean, Carl Tykrib, Mando Gonzalez.
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  We finally nailed it down a time with you, Lee.
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  John Haller, Alex Newman, he's one of our colleagues here at Freedom Project, Bill Canig,
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  Brandon Holthaus, Billy Crone, Tom Hughes is coming up in a few weeks.
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  So I haven't had him on yet, but he'll be on.
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  But we're just so thankful for these conferences.
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  But even more importantly, I know you are one of the speakers and authors that goes and
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  travels and you are helping to equip the saints.
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  But I would love, before we dive into your brand new book, I would love for you to speak to people
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  who love to study the Word of God, love to go to conferences.
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  But then we've got to take another step and be able to get this information out there
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  and talk about it with people.
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  Not just take it all in.
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  Your thoughts on that?
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  Yeah, I think every, every believer has the gifting and the ability to communicate the gospel
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  and the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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  The gospel in the second coming are the two poles on which the globe of redemption spins.
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  If you go out there with just the gospel, you don't have the second coming, your globe is going to wobble.
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  If you have the second coming and you don't have the gospel, your globe is going to wobble.
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  So just take the information you have.
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  You may never have a monster world class platform, but you have your neighbors, you have your family,
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  you have your friends, you have your workmates, just go do what God has given you and see what God does.
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  I love that.
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  And I'm looking behind you, people.
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  I know you guys can see to the, to the left of him, but to the, to our right, you can see shelves full of gospel tracks.
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  And then a massive books and Lee said he's got a couple other rooms with all kinds of books.
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  We're paper guys.
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  We're hand held guys.
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  But I love the gospel tracks.
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  We should always have them in our car.
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  You're right.
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  Very important point.
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  It's not just that we can consume.
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  We are not to be just consumers, right?
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  Of the word of God or biblical knowledge, knowledge puffs up.
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  Love builds up.
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  I think I've read that somewhere.
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  And we need to be able to share.
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  So that's why I love having guests on like yourself that have a commitment to the gospel and sound doctrines.
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  So let me just go through the table of contents.
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  Again, friends, the book is on Amazon.
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  Ten potent proofs for the pre-tribulation rapture.
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  Lee Brainer's got a page there and his website soothekeep.info.
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  So here are the different chapters, the distinct future of Israel.
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  Seventieth week appointed for Israel.
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  Israel in the tribulation.
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  Deliverance from wrath.
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  And then it goes to proof number five, which is church in heaven before tribulation.
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  And these are all broken up into sections that every chapter is.
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  Types of the rapture.
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  The coming of the son of man.
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  The nature of the seals.
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  Rapture and second coming distinguished and proof 10 chapter 10, the body and bride of Christ.
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  So Lee, gosh, where do you want to start?
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  We don't want to give it all away.
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  You can't.
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  It's not a long book.
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  I really like the fact that it's not easy to read, but it's easy to be drawn into and go through.
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  And it's not one of those massive 500 page volumes.
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  So it's very important information condensed.
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  And you break it up very well, I believe.
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  So where do you want to start maybe given overview?
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  Why this is so important?
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  Well, we're living in a day and age when if you go on social media, whether YouTube, Twitter,
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  well, it's X now.
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  Maybe we should call it Zitter.
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  But any social media platform.
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  No matter where you go, people are railing on the pre-trib rapture.
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  Oh, there's no proof of the pre-trib rapture.
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  The pre-trib rapture was invented in the 1830s by Jan Darby or Jan Darby.
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  Got it from a from a pagan girl who was listening to a demonic spirit.
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  And they just go on and on.
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  The fact the matter is the Bible is filled with proofs or evidences for a pre-trib rapture.
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  And I just decided I'm going to take make 10 arguments for the pre-trib rapture that's not exhaustive treatment, but it's a good treatment.
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  And write it in a short book, 120 pages.
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  So that anybody in even if they're a slow reader can sit down and digest these arguments one at a time.
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  Every one of them standing alone is a solid argument.
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  And like you said, you broke it up into 10 chapters and it is only 120 pages.
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  And there are 10 powerful arguments for the lay person.
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  For us, everybody else to be able to share or have these debates.
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  Because as you said on the back of the cover, it says the rapture is one of the most heated debates in the church.
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  So I find that interestingly, Brainer, that you use the word heated.
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  It's just a debate. We don't just talk about this or agree to disagree or but it can be heated.
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  And unfortunately, and I've heard this, I've seen this.
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  I don't believe it in my life personally.
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  I choose not to break fellowship with people who have different views on this unless it's a false teaching,
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  unless they go off into the weeds or something when it comes to sound doctrine or another gospel, another Jesus.
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  But what are your, why did you decide to put heated debates? I'm sure you've seen this as well.
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  Yes, well, because you're the, my average engagement on, for instance, with the pre-rath rapture has not been with a scholarly gentleman like John Haller.
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  He is an amazing man.
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  But my average conversation on it is people railing on me as a heretic who's sending people to hell because they're going to go into the tribulation and they're not going to be ready.
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  And they're going to take the mark of the beast and they go down all these little rabbit trail arguments and they're angry and people don't get bullied.
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  I mean, people get bullied out of the pre-trib rapture. They don't get convinced out of the pre-trib rapture.
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  So I want to give them some strong arguments that they can stand on so that when they get bullied and railed on, they're able to stand their ground.
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  Do you think it's a matter of biblical illiteracy? Because I mean, you use the word proofs in the title.
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  I mean, 10 potent proofs for the pre-tribulation rapture.
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  So do you think it's people just don't know the word of God or they've believed maybe certain talking points against attacks on the pre-trib rapture?
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  Yeah, both are true because we have a whole problem where people don't spend enough time reading the Bible and letting the Bible be its own interpreter.
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  But we also have another problem that we are dealing with a very wise enemy who's so's error in the church.
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  And he uses scripture. The devil actually knows the Bible is good as any Bible scholar in the planet, except that he doesn't believe it.
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  He hates it any twisted. So he uses the Bible in an amazing way.
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  So what we have to deal with when we're trying to convince people the truth of the pre-tribulation rapture, we often have to undo their prejudices.
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  If we can't undo the things that they're struggling with, if we can't help them get over the fence that they can't get over, then they're not really able to weigh the arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture.
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  I want to pull a quote and just read a little bit out of the introduction. I thought this section was very interestingly when you said in the fall of 1989, after a thousand hours of research on the timing of the rapture over nine years,
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  I experienced a sudden and forceful change because you hadn't always held this belief and I'd love for you to explain that in a minute.
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  You said I had been trading letters with a preacher friend who was chipping away at my sticking points and he made it abundantly clear from the Bible that the economy, for example,
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  the economy and the tribulation was the Jewish economy. The tribulation passages are focused on Messianic Jews who believe on Jesus and observe the Sabbath and the temple service and it dawned on me that I was guilty or overlooking or ignoring the Jewish context of Matthew 24 and other passages.
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  So, stop right there. Very important point, Lee, that you brought out context. Who was the Bible written to? And at that time, if we're talking about the Sabbath and the temple service, it's not the American church we're talking about, so go ahead and share more about that.
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  Yeah, and this really is a common problem. When I was young believer, I went to Matthew 24. I saw saints in the tribulation and boom, that settled it for me.
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  It took a few years for people to point out, hey, are you looking at Christians in Matthew 24? Well, if you're just by Christian, just mean they believe in a Messiah, of course they're Christians.
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  But are they Christians from the church age? Or are they Messianic believers in the tribulation? So they're Jewish? Well, they're held accountable to the Sabbath by God. This is not the Jews holding themselves accountable to the Sabbath. This is God upholding the Sabbath.
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  And God himself declares the temple to be the holy place. So this isn't man's estimation of it. This is God's estimation of it.
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  Once you come to that point, then you realize that the 70th week belongs to the 70 weeks declared upon Daniels people and Daniels, the people in city of Daniels. So they'll be Jewish them in Israel.
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  Well, if that's the case, then the 70th week has to be cut from the same piece of cloth that the first 69 weeks were cut from. When we come into the 69th week in the Gospels, the second half the 69th week, we have people who are still Jews still obligated to the mosaic law, but also obligated to believe on Jesus.
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  The 70th week is going to pick up in exactly the same place. The Jewish people are going to be obligated to the Jewish law, not because it's anything great in and of itself, but because the laws, the school master that God designed to turn the Jews to their Messiah.
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  And in the 70th week, this program will be successful, according to Zechariah 13, one third of the Jews are going to believe on the Messiah. That will be the greatest national revival in the history of the world.
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  Wow, phenomenal stuff, friends, that we're going to take a brief pause with Lee Brainerd. And when we come back, we're going to talk about second Thessalonians chapter two, the first three verses. We'll also touch on John chapter 14 and we'll talk about deliverance from Wrath, which is one of the proofs, one of the chapters from the new book right back on World View Matters.
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  Today's episode is brought to you by Freedom Project Academy. Take back your kids education. FPA's fully accredited classical curriculum provides live on demand and homeschool courses built on Judeo Christian values. Request your information packet and save 10% on tuition by visiting freedom for school.com. That's freedom f-o-r-school.com.
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  If you know someone who might be interested in sponsoring World View Matters, you can please send us an email. World View Matters at fpeusa.org and the website worldviewmatters.tv. Right back to our guest, Lee Brainerd today in the brand new book.
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  10 potent proofs for the pre-tribulation rapture. Lee in page 51, I love John 14. The first three verses man, so powerful. And you say it's one of your favorite arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture found in this context here.
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  And it says Jesus said in my father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am, there you may be also. Take it away, Lee.
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  I love this passage, brother, because what it's saying is the very next time the Lord Jesus physically interacts with the church. We're in his physical presence. He's taking us not from point A on earth to point B on earth, but from point A here on earth
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  to the courts of New Jerusalem above. We're going to heaven and we're going to be with him there forever. Where is Jesus right now? He is in heaven. Where did he leave when he left? He went to heaven. Where is he building those mansions up in heaven?
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  So these mansions cannot be rooms in the earthly people. They have to be mansions in the heavenly temple, the father's house. And I get so excited when I think about this because someday soon we're out of this sewer of unbelief and in the presence of God to breathe fresh, pure, holy air for the rest of our lives.
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  That's one of the comforting chapters too. I believe it says do not let your hearts be troubled. Jesus said believe in God, believe also in me. I want to go back to the beginning of that chapter.
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  And it's really interesting, Lee, and this is one of the things that people try to justify and try to reason in their own minds thinking, well, why would we escape God's wrath or persecution, they say, when other people may be in the past, you know, and through this entry is really the church have been dealing with persecution.
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  Why would all of a sudden those that were right at the end get raptured up and escape that, but they're reasoning, they're leaning on their own understanding, aren't they?
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  They sure are. The churches had nearly 2000 years to suffer tribulation with Christ. This is the time of Christ's patience, the time when he himself is enduring reproach and persecution.
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  This time is going to come to an end according to revelation 310 because you've kept the word of my patience. I will keep you from the hour of trial coming upon the entire world to try them to dwell upon the earth.
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  So this isn't a matter of the last generation escapes tribulation. The last generation is going to be removed from tribulation. Now we don't have a ton of tribulation in America, but there's no guarantee that this won't start next week or next year.
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  Yeah.
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  And the fact of the matter is we're not getting removed from this time of tribulation because we can't see tribulation.
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  We're getting removed from this time of tribulation for two reasons. First of all, this tribulation is such extreme tribulation that it's actually judgment.
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  And secondly, it's the church's time to suffer tribulation with Christ is over. The Lord's returning to Israel to give her a second time so that nationally Israel can receive her Old Testament promises on the basis of the New Covenant. She cannot receive them any other way.
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  Amen. Good point. And let's jump for the sake of time. We just have eight minutes left.
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  I want to jump over to second Thessalonians chapter two now. And right before we got on the podcast daily, I don't know if I can quote you, but I can paraphrase you said this is one of the most abused portions of scripture.
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  And why do you think that is and then go ahead and explain what you mean by that.
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  Yeah, well, in second Thessalonians chapter two versus one through three, we have a passage where I'll just read it. This is primarily the King James with the few modifications I made.
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  We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto him. That you be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter is from us as at the day of the Lord is present.
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  Let no man deceive you by any means for that day is not present except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition.
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  What's going on here is this passage is just a standard petition that you see in classical Greek and coin a Greek all over the place in every sector of literature.
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  It has three parts we have the verb of petition which is beseech we have the petition itself that you be not soon shaken and then we have the optional who pair clause which is translated by the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering untogether by him.
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  The who pair clause in a petition gives us the ground or reason for the petition so the petition here is we beseech you brethren not to be worried that you're in the day of the Lord and the reason for the petition is by the coming and gathering in other words by the rapture.
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  So in other words you can paraphrase this we beseech you brethren not to worry about the day of the Lord that you might be in it because we're going up we're not going through now.
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  The problem we face here since the rise of the pre tribulation rapture almost all of the common translations have translated the preposition who pair which is translated by in the King James as if it was the preposition Perry and so they end up going after this passage as if it said we're going to tell you about the coming in the rapture and then they end up equating the rapture and the day of the Lord.
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  This passage contrasts them we beseech you by the rapture not to worry about the day of the Lord so when you drop lower in this passage we see that day is not present.
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  Unless the man of sin be revealed if you see the man of sin you're in the day of the Lord if you don't see the man of sin you're not in the day of the Lord now tragically when people equate the rapture in the day of the Lord they say see we're not going up until after the Antichrist so they really abuse this passage.
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  And you also clarify the petition in a chart on page 58 I was telling you before we got on you I like it because I'm a visual guy and I like looking at charts and columns and it's for some reason it's easier for me to break things down do you want to just touch on that describe that briefly.
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  Yeah in my little chart I give the verb of request which is aerotel when Greek and I give the King James we beseech you and then I train I paraphrase a meaning we ask you then I give the request in the Greek and I give it in the King James that you be not soon shaken is that the day of the Lord is present and then I paraphrase it don't fear that you are in the day of the Lord.
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  Then I go on and I give the reason for the quest request which is in the who pair clause and the King James says by the coming of Lord we're beseeching you be cut by or because of or on account of the rapture by the coming of our Lord and our gathering together into him.
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  And so then the paraphrase or the meaning simply is because of the rapture now this this is really a tremendous blessing to the believer once we understand the grammar here.
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  If we treat this passage the same way petitions are treated everywhere else in Greek literature everywhere else and we're not looking for a unique translation.
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  Then we are forced to conclude that the passage contrast the rapture in the day of the Lord we're going up in the rapture and we're not going to go through the day of the Lord.
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  I like the way you put that people try to find an exception right well that can't be the rule like where everywhere else it happens in scripture this is different and they just come up with this.
• 24:20
  Anyway Lee thank you for that we're running out of time quickly we just have three minutes left I wanted to touch on briefly proof nine the rapture and the second coming distinguished and one of the headings is one coming and two aspects and you also talk about saints taken versus saints left and please touch on that briefly and then we'll have to wrap it up.
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  Yeah when you go into the classic rapture passages whether your revelation 310 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 13 through 18 John 14 1 through 3 you have saints being removed from earth and taken out of this world to be delivered to be brought into blessing.
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  When you come to the second coming passages like the kingdom parables in Matthew chapter 13 or the coming of the Son of Man in Matthew 25 where we have the sheep and the goats.
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  The goats are the ungodly are the ones that are removed and the sheep or the godly are the ones that are left.
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  So you can't conflate these two passages without making confusion so if you have one time where the Lord removes the godly and leaves the ungodly and then another time where he removes the ungodly and leaves the godly you are looking at two distinct events and I actually give in that same chapter a number of other arguments for the distinction between the rapture and the second coming including the fact that the rapture the type of the rapture is the
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  morning star of the day of the Lord. The type of the tribulation is the dawning of the day of the Lord and the type of the second coming is the sunrise of the day of the Lord.
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  You absolutely cannot conflate the morning star and the sunrise unless you are intentionally shutting out light from scripture and deciding you're going to come up with your own understanding and not the Bibles.
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  Amen, brother. Thank you. Friends, you can get this on Amazon right now and I'm sure it'll be on your website eventually, but I want to give your website just so they can read more about your ministry and get more information.
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  It's at soothkeep.info and lovely and just as hard for the truth, the gospel and of course the truth of the rapture. In the very end, we've got less than a minute.
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  You talk about a spirit of error and one of the reasons that people just kind of believe these other talking points without diving into what you are diving into and laying out here.
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  How do you overcome that? Is it discernment? Can you just give a little brief encouragement to our listeners to just be careful of what's being said out there?
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  Yeah, we absolutely have to be Bereans who are going to seek a biblical theology. In other words, plain statements of scripture interpret it by plain statements of scripture and all that the scripture says on the subject.
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  If we go the other way, we're going to take a few proof texts one or two with an official interpretation and we are going to be led astray.
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  Thanks for the warning. Friends, check out the book and lead Lord willing. We'll do this again. Have you back on this topic or another topic, but love it. Very important and God bless you brother and enjoy the conferences. I'm sure they'll go well.
• 27:42
  Well, thank you brother and I've enjoyed being with world view matters. It's a blessing. Thanks. Friends, please share the podcast. We appreciate you so much. End your support and prayers. God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
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  .