Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Jaz Garewal | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #70 |

Transcript

Jaz Garewal | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #70 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast, but
• 0:03
  before we get into it, are you subscribed?
• 0:06
  If not please make sure to subscribe.
• 0:09
  Like and share the video and spread the word because the
• 0:12
  Christian read podcast is here to stay.
• 0:15
  I love doing this and I love all of you that support me.
• 0:19
  So thank you. And yeah, let's get into this
• 0:22
  podcast, shall we? Boom.
• 0:25
  Hello. And welcome to another episode
• 0:27
  of the Christian we've podcast today's Is an iOS Developer, a
• 0:32
  film producer, a writer. He wears many hats.
• 0:35
  His name is yazgur. Well, welcome to the show.
• 0:38
  How are you doing? Good actually, jazz jazz music.
• 0:42
  No, it's all good. This is the second time in like
• 0:45
  the last couple of episodes where I got someone's name
• 0:48
  slightly off and it's like, man, I was so sure it was this way,
• 0:52
  Jeff apologize. Okay no, no worries.
• 0:58
  Yeah, let's let's just jump straight into it.
• 1:00
  You are a iOS Developer for the Bank of America.
• 1:03
  Tell us a little bit about this role and what it involves and
• 1:06
  what it's like working for them actually.
• 1:08
  So I made the switch from be of a just recently to CVS now.
• 1:13
  Okay, well so yeah. So CBS, you know, as a pharmacy
• 1:17
  chain in the US, oh she's not in television.
• 1:21
  No. No, it's not.
• 1:22
  Yeah, right. I always get that seat CBS
• 1:24
  versus CVS. So it's V is CVS.
• 1:27
  Yes, exactly. Right, right.
• 1:29
  So yeah. So an iOS Developer for them.
• 1:33
  So same role just different company.
• 1:37
  It's been interesting between the two of them because, you
• 1:41
  know, I started at be of a briefly back in around this time
• 1:46
  of last year after leaving a job as a all around software
• 1:52
  developer for a small kind of Boutique agency.
• 1:55
  I was with them for five. I've years and, you know, 2020
• 1:59
  was, I feel like chaotic year for everybody, I think that, you
• 2:04
  know, is, you know, kind of a minimizes, what happened, you
• 2:08
  know, in 2020, but it, you know, it was basically kind of a
• 2:13
  people for me, in terms of leaving that company in January,
• 2:18
  yo, starting with B of A, which, you know, was a different
• 2:22
  environment because it's, you know, it's a big Enterprise, you
• 2:25
  know, working at a bank, Can add, you know, seeing that, and
• 2:29
  then transitioning over to CVS and again, seeing a different
• 2:32
  big Enterprise. And yeah, but it's been fun part
• 2:38
  of the move. You know, part of the reason why
• 2:40
  I moved from the smaller place to be of a and then CBS was to
• 2:45
  kind of refocus on iOS development and it's been nice
• 2:49
  to kind of laser focus on on one area instead of doing, you know,
• 2:54
  before I was doing iOS Android and Web app development, few
• 2:58
  Workforce or larger organizations do you get more
• 3:02
  micromanaged or are you kind of just left to your own devices as
• 3:06
  far as the admin of app development is concerned?
• 3:08
  Like how much kind of involvement is there less say,
• 3:13
  okay, for example, if you're working for a smaller company
• 3:16
  versus working for a larger company, how often do you find
• 3:19
  yourself kind of saying like, hey, I can do this, like leave
• 3:23
  it to me versus, you know, just kind of being Let's say a
• 3:28
  project and just running with it for six months.
• 3:31
  Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question.
• 3:33
  Obviously, with the smaller company, you know, I was, you
• 3:37
  know, in charge of, you know, whenever we had a client, it was
• 3:40
  setting up there back in setting up the server and doing
• 3:43
  everything that the app or apps required.
• 3:46
  So I definitely had free rein with be vain CBS, the I wouldn't
• 3:53
  necessarily call it micro managing, but more, I think just
• 3:56
  the way It's set up. Everything's, you know, instead
• 3:59
  of you know, again I had like free reign from start to finish
• 4:03
  with everything with larger companies.
• 4:07
  You know, I've put on a team that's specifically you know.
• 4:10
  CBS is case I work on just yeah. The start page that everybody
• 4:15
  sees in the app and given that it's kind of intrinsic that like
• 4:21
  okay that is, you know, my domain.
• 4:23
  I don't really go outside that, you know, so there's He sick
• 4:27
  restrictions from the get-go with that, kind of setup and
• 4:34
  modernization of it. So it's not direct like people
• 4:38
  saying, hey do it this way, do it that way?
• 4:41
  It's more. This is where I can work and
• 4:44
  within that realm. Yeah, I'm pretty free to do what
• 4:47
  I want to get a feature out or get a bug fixed but, you know, I
• 4:53
  Don't Stray too far and when I need To if there's something
• 4:58
  that requires outside, it is kind of meetings coordinating
• 5:02
  with people. There's that's been a lot, you
• 5:04
  know, different, which I like I, you know, went from being a solo
• 5:09
  developer / crap, you know, I was part of a development team
• 5:12
  and we meet regularly and discussed but never really
• 5:16
  totally worked with other developers at the smaller
• 5:19
  company. Whereas this is definitely very
• 5:21
  much a team-based environment and the reason I ask is that
• 5:24
  like it's kind of interesting to me.
• 5:26
  I've spoken Quite a few different developers on the show
• 5:29
  and just in general and I come from a marketing background.
• 5:33
  So it's a different field entirely but the thing that I've
• 5:35
  noticed over the years is that there is this kind of like
• 5:40
  imaginary box, let's say we're, you know, if you're creative
• 5:44
  ideas fit within that box, that's okay.
• 5:47
  But if they go outside of that box, it's like well we're just
• 5:49
  not going to do that and that can usually be a corporate
• 5:52
  thing. That's why I use the term
• 5:54
  micromanagement which often has Of connotations and I don't
• 5:58
  necessarily mean it to have have that.
• 6:01
  I mean I think sometimes you know, it can be good to have a
• 6:05
  manager or a team leader that kind of guides the project but I
• 6:08
  don't know. It depends for me.
• 6:09
  I've always kind of preferred just being given the project and
• 6:12
  I deal with it and then I come back to you or give you like
• 6:15
  fairly regular updates or stuff like that.
• 6:17
  Now, obviously, app development software development is very
• 6:20
  different from marketing for obvious reasons.
• 6:23
  But the thing that I keep hearing from developers that is
• 6:26
  that they have a A great deal of creativity as far as like coding
• 6:29
  is concerned and you know, just just in general being able to
• 6:33
  kind of be given a space with which to do that.
• 6:36
  But I don't know if you're familiar with the YouTuber,
• 6:40
  Joshua, fluke. For example, I don't know.
• 6:42
  Just throwing that out. No, no, it's not, especially
• 6:45
  important at the reason I bring that up is because he's involved
• 6:48
  in coding, he's involved in this sort of background, and he made
• 6:52
  a transition from sort of like, from That sort of.
• 6:59
  How do I put this God? My mind is going blank.
• 7:02
  Let's say that's a sphere. The corporate sphere, the
• 7:04
  corporate environment. Yeah, it's like his own thing.
• 7:06
  You know, first freelance. And then, just eventually
• 7:09
  setting up his own business, where he sort of works for
• 7:11
  himself. And I find it very interesting
• 7:14
  him talking about his experiences and I feel like I
• 7:16
  can relate to a lot of that on a corporate level as far as
• 7:19
  dealing with teams and stuff like that.
• 7:21
  But I do find the difference very different obviously between
• 7:26
  Taking and app development because you guys do tend to get
• 7:30
  a lot of free rains, but there is still this kind of difference
• 7:34
  as far as company to company because some companies are give
• 7:36
  you a lot more. Some companies that give you a
• 7:38
  lot less and I guess that's kind of what I'm intrigued to learn
• 7:41
  from. You is like how much sort of
• 7:43
  creative freedom of you afforded by each of the companies that
• 7:46
  you've worked for Yeah. And that's a good question.
• 7:49
  And you know, you said the YouTuber was Joshua fluke.
• 7:54
  That's his name. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Yeah. It's so I kind of had a reverse
• 7:58
  path that him I started out freelance and then went to this,
• 8:01
  you know, Boutique agency, and then, you know, so I went the I
• 8:06
  we basically passed each other on her career paths.
• 8:10
  But yeah, in terms of free reign, there's definitely I
• 8:17
  think the main limitations I see is, you know, not being able to
• 8:21
  use the latest and greatest iOS Tech, because we're still
• 8:25
  supporting, you know, older versions of iOS.
• 8:29
  Whereas at the smaller company, the cup the apps, I was working
• 8:33
  on. What?
• 8:35
  For the most part kind of built ground up.
• 8:37
  So I could in the it's like II anyway for iOS user interfaces
• 8:47
  to be to be coded to interact with data and all that I won't
• 8:52
  be touching that for a while a professionally at the, you know,
• 8:57
  courier company. So there is that restriction.
• 9:00
  But in terms of executing I think CBS There's definitely a
• 9:06
  more freedom in terms of defining, kind of what I get to,
• 9:11
  you know, how I approach different things at be of a,
• 9:15
  they definitely were a lot more kind of stringent about in
• 9:23
  strict about what their code what how code can be
• 9:27
  implemented, how code can be architected.
• 9:31
  So you know they're definitely and and that was surprising
• 9:34
  actually. You know, one large company is
• 9:36
  not the same as another, you know, when it comes to how they
• 9:39
  approach the different ego, they definitely do the same.
• 9:42
  You know, in terms of project management, it's agile.
• 9:48
  So and I didn't you know, this is 20/20 was the first time I've
• 9:53
  had to deal with agile management or project
• 9:56
  management. So it's been interesting, it
• 9:59
  hasn't been a hindrance, it's just been more kind of like okay
• 10:03
  I got to learn the terminology Not sure what you guys are
• 10:07
  talking about, but I know what you guys want.
• 10:10
  So yeah, let's explore that a little bit more.
• 10:13
  Like tell us what you were used to go to work process.
• 10:17
  You used to before and then like how it's changed?
• 10:19
  As far as, okay, so you mentioned terminology, but what
• 10:22
  the other factors that's sort of vastly different yeah, it looks
• 10:27
  like so yeah, I mean that you're going for the smaller company,
• 10:33
  the smaller agency to you know at this followed you see it was
• 10:37
  all about you know getting delivered designs or ux flows
• 10:44
  and using that to kind of break down what, you know, what the
• 10:51
  app requires at the back end at the app level and breaking those
• 10:56
  out into stories, you know, and some ways it kind of felt like a
• 10:59
  loser I don't like looking back on it, it felt like a loose
• 11:01
  agile, kind of system, but they weren't Sprint's or anything
• 11:06
  like that. It was just, you know, from
• 11:07
  beginning to end. Here's what we needed for.
• 11:10
  Here's what we need for the app and we would, you know, ticket
• 11:13
  those out. Give estimations on each one and
• 11:16
  then just start knocking them out.
• 11:19
  And, and doing such a way that, you know, sometimes developers
• 11:21
  would switch. Like you know, another developer
• 11:24
  would jump on that project I'd be put on different project,
• 11:28
  they'd be able to pick it up and run.
• 11:29
  And run with it. And basically, what it comes
• 11:33
  down to, Yo, with B of A and with cbs's, I guess it's more of
• 11:39
  a strict form of that, you know, you have Sprint's, you know,
• 11:41
  which I knew, you know, what they were coming into it
• 11:44
  beforehand. Just having heard people talk
• 11:46
  about them, just to week or three week long, you know.
• 11:52
  Basically, what is it just length of time to get a certain
• 11:58
  amount of work done? And then, you know, just other
• 12:02
  things like the, I think with with agile and I think safe
• 12:07
  Agile project in particular. That's what I believe be of a
• 12:10
  was using, although I wasn't totally sure.
• 12:12
  But we CBS, it's safe Agile. So there's trains and all that,
• 12:17
  which are, I guess, just, you know, just different ways of how
• 12:22
  you kind of organized, you know, teams and down to the different
• 12:28
  level. And it's always It's almost kind
• 12:30
  of, you know, military in a way like Armory like, you know, you
• 12:33
  got your, your fire team and your platoon or whatever, you
• 12:36
  know? But not the same terminology
• 12:37
  obviously, but it has that kind of feel to it.
• 12:43
  Awesome. Thanks for sharing.
• 12:45
  So you've also worked as a mobile app developer and
• 12:48
  software developer. I know obviously iOS cancers
• 12:50
  mobile app but like that's more of a one specific area and like
• 12:54
  you said, you're kind of focusing on a specific version.
• 13:00
  And everything. There's a lot of work obviously
• 13:01
  involved with that because iOS, there's just constant stuff that
• 13:04
  you have to work with and update and so on and so forth.
• 13:08
  But let's talk about the other projects that you've done in
• 13:11
  mobile app development and software development.
• 13:13
  Like how does that differ? How did you get into that line
• 13:16
  of work and what do you enjoy most about it?
• 13:19
  Yeah, so, you know, mobile and software development.
• 13:21
  It was just basically casting. My now wider in a way, like I
• 13:24
  started off as an iOS Developer, when I started development
• 13:27
  actually, I can go back to like I was So I wasn't I'm not a
• 13:30
  software developer, but this is, you know, a career change for
• 13:33
  me, okay, from, I think that was back in 2012 is when I made the
• 13:38
  pivot because prior to that, I went to school for, you know,
• 13:41
  media arts. I was doing music production.
• 13:46
  Interning at a recording studio. Got out of school started doing
• 13:50
  editing for a local news station here.
• 13:52
  Local ABC affiliate then worked with an independent company for
• 13:56
  a while, and as I company was You know, winding down, I always
• 14:02
  kind of getting burnt out on post-production.
• 14:04
  In general, I'd been doing a lot of my own projects as well, Film
• 14:08
  Production, you know, how to crew?
• 14:10
  We shoot. You know, shorts.
• 14:12
  We did one feature. And so as it was happening.
• 14:16
  Yeah, as I was kind of waiting down at the company goes like,
• 14:19
  you know, I think it might be either after.
• 14:21
  Yeah, I'm based in Tucson, Arizona, you know, which is
• 14:25
  geographically. It's close to LA but would still
• 14:28
  yo, If I wanted to continue, I'd have to, you know, communicate
• 14:32
  relocate to La basically, at that point, it was like don't
• 14:35
  want to do that. Do I want to kind of in some way
• 14:37
  start from the beginning there or do I want to kind of see what
• 14:41
  else is out there. And and so I just kind of got
• 14:46
  into iOS development because actually on a shoot, my Director
• 14:50
  of Photography, just I finally said it would be nice to have a
• 14:53
  iPad app to be able to log Clips as we shoot them.
• 14:57
  So once we get to, you know, into Final Cut Pro, Have notes.
• 15:00
  We have the best takes already marked.
• 15:02
  I was like, let me try my hand at that and see what I could do
• 15:05
  and got 70% on the way through when the company was starting to
• 15:09
  wind down or just like, you know what, let me, let me give this a
• 15:11
  try. And so that's how I got into
• 15:13
  freelancing, kind of built up before portfolio and got with
• 15:18
  that smaller agency. And within that agency, they
• 15:23
  after about a year there, they had a client who not only want
• 15:26
  an iPhone app but also wanted us to take on there and Droid app
• 15:29
  as well and I was I've been looking into Android and I said,
• 15:32
  you know what, let me give that a go and let's see what we could
• 15:35
  do and yeah and so expanded and so that's where my, you know,
• 15:41
  umbrella expanded Beyond iOS, into Mobile development at that
• 15:45
  point, you know, I was able to work with both kind of architect
• 15:51
  between the two. So, you know, even though it's a
• 15:53
  different ecosystem in a different environment, Somebody
• 15:59
  jumping in from you know, the iOS to the Android side to fix
• 16:02
  something for both apps could you know, find you know where
• 16:06
  the wet need to be fixed where and and so that was that was fun
• 16:13
  and it also frustrating to because you see the strengths of
• 16:16
  strengths and weaknesses of both and she's like, if I could
• 16:19
  combine, you know, the best of both, you know, we'd have the
• 16:22
  perfect mobile platform. And so, from there, That same
• 16:29
  client, actually they decide. They wanted a web app at that
• 16:34
  point as well. And so that's where I expanded
• 16:37
  into web development and and kind of you know, basically at
• 16:41
  that point just you know, had the app developer hat just
• 16:45
  because I didn't really expect it so big.
• 16:47
  And so the nice thing between the two is that or sorry.
• 16:52
  The nice thing with having that app developer hat was never
• 16:58
  being bored. Right?
• 17:00
  You know, just jumping between each.
• 17:02
  Technology kind of fighting my way through everything and also
• 17:06
  thinking at a higher level about the architecture of not just
• 17:12
  architecting this. So you know, it works and and it
• 17:16
  makes sense as an iOS code base but also thinking, okay,
• 17:21
  generally how do I architect these?
• 17:23
  So you know, they so somebody jumping from like I said you
• 17:29
  know, Jeffrey from the iOS could basically Android code bases and
• 17:32
  Totally lost like this is, you know, totally doing it
• 17:34
  differently than iOS. I don't know, you know, if I
• 17:36
  make a fix here it'll break something down there.
• 17:39
  But then again at the same time there's the getting spread too
• 17:43
  thin problem and and kind of getting freaked out and I think
• 17:46
  that happened to me towards the end of 2019 or actually
• 17:50
  beginning in 2019 and and that's when I realized, okay, you know
• 17:54
  what? Let's step back and let's let's
• 17:55
  focus on one thing and kind of go back to the roots of iOS
• 17:59
  development. I say okay.
• 18:02
  Makes a lot of sense actually, as far as focusing in one area.
• 18:06
  I know I kind of feel like it's the same with with marketing.
• 18:09
  Like I've told you I've been out of work for about a year now,
• 18:13
  but all of the job applications that I see, they want you to
• 18:18
  basically work everywhere and marketing just like software
• 18:21
  development is a very vast field.
• 18:23
  I mean you've got Technical and you've got just pure analytics,
• 18:27
  you've got, you know, just standard conventional copy
• 18:30
  through old methods. Then nude.
• 18:32
  Digital marketing then social media.
• 18:34
  I mean, it's just so many different spheres and it's like
• 18:38
  each of them can have several jobs within them but they expect
• 18:42
  you to just work everywhere and do everything and it's just not
• 18:45
  realistic. But yeah, I really do.
• 18:47
  You mind if I ask you what, so what's your kind of specialty
• 18:51
  with marketing or where did you find her?
• 18:54
  Oh right. Yeah, why I majored in
• 18:57
  management and marketing but like predominantly, it's always
• 19:01
  been Concern social media and analytics.
• 19:06
  Those have been my main areas, but yeah, I know likes SEO, I
• 19:09
  know that. But my main interest is always
• 19:12
  been creative and you know, I kind of dabble in everything
• 19:16
  else but that's where I tend to focus on.
• 19:18
  That's what I'm most interested in.
• 19:20
  But I don't know, I'm getting more and more into stats because
• 19:23
  especially with my content Creation with things like
• 19:25
  YouTube and podcasting. You know, I like I even had a
• 19:28
  role at one point where my job was just purely.
• 19:32
  Early analytics and it is interesting but I think it
• 19:34
  depends on the content that you're working with and like,
• 19:39
  how kind of passionate you are about that.
• 19:41
  Like the time I had that professional role I was working
• 19:45
  for like a trading company. So like it was kind of
• 19:48
  interesting to some extent, but at the same time, there was like
• 19:51
  a ceiling on how well the content would do because Most
• 19:57
  people generally speak in, wouldn't check out, you know,
• 20:02
  Financial trading on somewhere like YouTube, like it.
• 20:05
  They have like their own online space if you like like threads
• 20:10
  and stuff like that. Yeah, right with my own content
• 20:14
  right now, you know, obviously the home is on YouTube or
• 20:18
  someone that Tick-Tock or Instagram whatever so that
• 20:20
  right? That's you know, I mean you and
• 20:22
  you get much more rich and let Excel.
• 20:26
  As far as things like demographics and age range, and
• 20:30
  just all of these factors and that makes it just much more
• 20:33
  interesting in general. And so that's for that.
• 20:38
  In terms of content, you're not necessarily print contact,
• 20:42
  right? Your Or into video audio, kind
• 20:48
  of multimedia content is that right?
• 20:50
  Or, um, everything ready? I've never dealt with physical
• 20:54
  printer. I've only ever dealt with like
• 20:56
  digital record. Oh, sorry, I didn't mean pray, I
• 20:59
  meant digital prayer, right? Yeah, no I've worked.
• 21:04
  Yeah, paper print has kind of gone.
• 21:07
  I mean it's still there. It's still works for certain for
• 21:10
  certain companies. I think there is still a major
• 21:13
  demand for especially Now that which sort of heading so far
• 21:18
  into like the digital world. You know, there's this kind of
• 21:23
  wisdom and for you know physical media Fizz just physical objects
• 21:28
  in general, you know. So I mean there's always going
• 21:30
  to be a market for it but ya gone are the days of it being
• 21:33
  like the main kind of right Outlet.
• 21:36
  Yeah. I mean I guess you see there
• 21:37
  with with vinyl kind of you. Yeah.
• 21:40
  You know what I mean? Vinyl has surpassed CD which
• 21:43
  blue. Yeah.
• 21:44
  But it's been crazy because he's like it's CD has never been like
• 21:50
  why do not I was going to say it's never been attractive but
• 21:52
  then again you know all of the cool sort of features of CD were
• 21:57
  always the inside stuff, you know, like the booklets and the
• 22:00
  lyric books and stuff like that which you are suppose, you could
• 22:04
  still get with vinyl. But the main draw of Vidal is is
• 22:06
  actually the CDs themselves and then the all the finals which I
• 22:11
  should say and then the actual packaging.
• 22:13
  As yeah. But you could, in theory, get
• 22:16
  all of the stuff that you get with CD with vinyl.
• 22:18
  So I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:20
  It is interesting because I mean, I mean there was the ease
• 22:22
  of use with CD, right? Like and you know, you you could
• 22:26
  scratch a CD granted but I think, but at the same time like
• 22:30
  you have the ease-of-use now is streaming.
• 22:32
  So, you know, I think there is, yeah, a novelty factor with
• 22:36
  final, which makes sense for it to, it's more, you know, CDs on
• 22:40
  the decline finals. You having a Resurgence and they
• 22:42
  kind of passed each other at a I think, you know, it's not going
• 22:46
  to be anywhere near what CDs were bringing in the labels
• 22:50
  before profit wise, but it's definitely enough to blow the
• 22:55
  dust off of few vinyl factories that to meet them.
• 23:00
  The new demand. Yes.
• 23:01
  It's very interesting to me because I kind of just assumed
• 23:06
  that once you know everything went online and digital that we
• 23:10
  would just never look back because I mean there was loads
• 23:12
  of other things that died of death, you know?
• 23:14
  Like Tape cassettes. You know if I try and tell like,
• 23:17
  I don't know, my eldest brother, what a tape cassette is he'd be
• 23:20
  like what? I mean, he might know it.
• 23:23
  I don't know, he's a clever kid but like 100%.
• 23:26
  He's probably never. He probably never seen one
• 23:29
  unless he's seen some of my dad's old stuff, but it's just
• 23:32
  something that's just kind of Gone Gone by.
• 23:35
  Do you know what I mean? It's yeah, it's died, a death
• 23:38
  but then yeah, like those vinyl stores were always around CDs.
• 23:43
  Are still sold to this. A, but I think the most
• 23:48
  interesting thing that I saw happen, What is the, what I
• 23:53
  think is interesting is the fact that like, when new records are
• 23:57
  made, they make a vinyl version. Like, I kind of thought like,
• 24:01
  the draw would always be in like, classic vinyls and people
• 24:05
  would always just be, you know, and the collectors basis and
• 24:08
  like, oh yeah, I've got the first version of The Sex Pistols
• 24:11
  first record or something. You know, it's like you've got
• 24:13
  the first Asian you guys collectors, like, I got that
• 24:16
  element but to see new musician or sorry new bands new music
• 24:22
  coming out with the vinyl option that that was very interesting
• 24:25
  but I guess it makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:28
  I mean definitely I mean I think I mean there still is that
• 24:30
  collectors mentality. I feel like to with it you know?
• 24:36
  But yeah it is I mean it's definitely is interesting that
• 24:38
  and just to see the random places vinyl pops up you know
• 24:41
  for sale like it's it's interesting.
• 24:45
  So it'll be interesting to see where it goes.
• 24:47
  If it, you know, has legs for. Well, I mean it's been a yeah.
• 24:50
  I've got the Resurgence been around for a while.
• 24:52
  So yeah. I think it will continue
• 24:55
  especially I think if anything it will get stronger and
• 24:57
  stronger for at the years because you know, we're
• 25:04
  Technology is moving so fast at the moment that I don't think
• 25:09
  we're noticing, just how quickly it is moving.
• 25:11
  But at the same time, it's moving very fast but it isn't,
• 25:15
  you know what I mean? It's like there's certain things
• 25:17
  that still exists that in theory, shouldn't exist, given
• 25:21
  the technological power that we have.
• 25:24
  But the same time we are restricted.
• 25:26
  So like, you know, gas-powered cars, right?
• 25:29
  Is a good example, like we're in theory.
• 25:31
  We don't need them at all, we don't need right.
• 25:34
  But Like having that we like that, you know what I mean?
• 25:37
  I guess the Nostalgia factor or the fact that, you know, we
• 25:40
  still got fossil fuels that were using but in theory we could
• 25:45
  just have only electric cars. Why don't we have that?
• 25:48
  You know, I mean it's and there's other things.
• 25:51
  I mean, for example the fact that we even have we talked
• 25:56
  about to marketing, the fact that we even have physical, you
• 25:59
  know things like Billboards that are print only like I get that
• 26:03
  we've got that they're interacting.
• 26:04
  Active ones now but you still see classic print classic print
• 26:10
  posters you know, old old styles of marketing and sales that you
• 26:17
  would think wouldn't work but they still work.
• 26:19
  I mean Jesus, there's people still doing door-to-door sales.
• 26:22
  I mean exactly. And it's like, how does that
• 26:24
  still work? But it does, it does work.
• 26:27
  It's we're all like, we're leaflet.
• 26:29
  Marketing is a really good one. I get.
• 26:31
  Oh yeah. So many leaflets for like pizza
• 26:33
  joints. Or take away places and I'm
• 26:36
  like, what's the point? But I guess in a way, it's kind
• 26:39
  of useful, but like everything's done for your apps now, you
• 26:42
  know? It's yeah.
• 26:43
  Right. Well, I feel like, I mean, so in
• 26:45
  the case of billboards and even gas cars, it's kind of the, you
• 26:50
  know, there's the infrastructure Legacy, right?
• 26:52
  Like, how much does it take to convert that billboard to
• 26:54
  digital? And so I feel like, you know,
• 26:58
  there might be, you know, just kind of holding on to that
• 27:02
  especially if like giving the traffic around, you know.
• 27:04
  So, You sound like we don't have anywhere near the population of
• 27:08
  like New York, New York City. And so converting Billboards
• 27:12
  around that area makes sense to digital because you can you got
• 27:16
  a lot of eyes going by it and so you want to a be able to rotate,
• 27:19
  you know what you want on it and maximize, how many people see
• 27:23
  it? Whereas in Tucson, you know, we
• 27:25
  have I-10, you know, this one freeway that goes goes kind of
• 27:29
  on the outskirts of it and you know, there's some Billboards
• 27:33
  leading in and And out of it, but not enough eyes on it.
• 27:37
  I think to justify going digital and I'm sure there's some
• 27:41
  Billboards there that have been, you know, the same ad since, you
• 27:45
  know, for like the past two, three decades so, and then
• 27:49
  welcome animals. It's mad when I have a but I get
• 27:52
  your point. It's a very solid point.
• 27:53
  If you don't need to spend the money like why spend like, yeah?
• 27:57
  Right. Well, if I mean, see, all comes
• 27:58
  down to the ROI, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 28:01
  No. Yes, it is.
• 28:02
  Solid point. I mean, like you said, Is there
• 28:04
  going to be enough eyeballs on it or to put it in a better way?
• 28:08
  If there's not going to be enough conversions from essman
• 28:11
  obviously return on investment, then there's just going to be no
• 28:15
  point in the investment in the first place but, you know, yeah,
• 28:18
  I mean, they're still companies. That dump tons.
• 28:22
  Upon tons into I like Coca-Cola. I've mentioned this before on
• 28:25
  the podcast. It's still astounds me how much
• 28:27
  money they put into advertising, but I guess in a way, it keeps
• 28:33
  the brand forever. Strengthened.
• 28:35
  I mean, but I wonder like what would happen if they just
• 28:37
  wouldn't advertise for like a year.
• 28:39
  Like what would that do? Would it make a difference?
• 28:42
  Would it affect their stock price shares?
• 28:44
  Would it affect the sales like part of me?
• 28:47
  Feels like nah, I wouldn't, it's such a well-known brand but then
• 28:50
  part of me is like, I don't know.
• 28:52
  You know it's it's an interesting one.
• 28:55
  Yeah. I mean I wonder if because I
• 28:57
  mean they've established the brand, right?
• 28:58
  So the can itself in the bottles of themselves are part of the
• 29:02
  advertisement. But I think again.
• 29:04
  Actually, that kind of goes to the old-school infrastructure to
• 29:07
  like, but just internally a Coke, like they have this way of
• 29:11
  doing marketing that I think just changing the way that ship
• 29:15
  moves. You know, in terms of really
• 29:19
  changing up, how they mark, it is just not in the cards for
• 29:22
  them. I think.
• 29:23
  Even if they kept saying, you know, lower and lower
• 29:26
  conversions for for print and TV marketing and more for, you know
• 29:32
  online, I'm not sure how much. That would get them to change
• 29:37
  their marketing plan. You know, it quickly, you know,
• 29:40
  it's not going to move, you know, basically at the pace of
• 29:43
  tech, right, I feel like that's, that's part of it is, you've got
• 29:47
  these institutions who are and, and going back to fossil fuels,
• 29:52
  still, you have these oil companies who are not going to
• 29:56
  let go of their their control over.
• 29:59
  Hmm, you know, who makes what car kind of thing.
• 30:02
  And, I mean not conspiracy theory.
• 30:04
  Well, But I think there's, you know, vested interest between
• 30:08
  the, you know, the oil companies.
• 30:11
  Are actually more so an oil companies to keep gas cars on
• 30:14
  the road. Yeah, I mean, I reckon, it's one
• 30:18
  of those things that if you're a major company earning that much
• 30:22
  money on a daily basis, you probably only really tend to
• 30:26
  look at these things and start cutting making cuts when you're
• 30:30
  actually losing money on a noticeable Scouts, if you're
• 30:34
  Coca-Cola. I mean, it would take a lot for
• 30:38
  you to notice your losses, but I mean, if we take the pandemic,
• 30:41
  For, as an example, you know, people being less able to be in
• 30:46
  all of the different areas that co co co co co co co sold.
• 30:49
  I mean, obviously coca sold everywhere.
• 30:50
  It's not a massively going to effect, you know, purchasing but
• 30:55
  it's still a valid point that there might be some areas.
• 30:58
  There's a holiday destinations where people are not were
• 31:01
  frequenting as much. Therefore the cells of Coke in
• 31:05
  those areas might decrease, therefore they might have to,
• 31:07
  sort of say, okay, we need to make Cuts in certain areas.
• 31:11
  You know, in order to just, you know, make sure we're not
• 31:14
  wasting money unnecessarily. But again, I think it would take
• 31:19
  a lot for a company like that to really, you know, because I
• 31:22
  think like you say they've got this established infrastructure
• 31:26
  there, they probably if they look at things like ad spend or
• 31:30
  like how much money we're going to spend on this particular
• 31:33
  thing for the are, you know, obviously every company has
• 31:34
  budgets. They have, you know, okay, this
• 31:37
  is our budget for this corner. This is the budget for this
• 31:39
  chord own. I feel like You know, I've
• 31:41
  worked in companies where the budget was really high and we
• 31:44
  didn't need to spend it but they just spend it anyway because
• 31:47
  like, why not? And it's like that was kind of
• 31:49
  blew my mind. Like if you don't need to spend
• 31:51
  it, like save it, use it for next quarter.
• 31:54
  I don't know, like this seems weird to just spend it because
• 31:56
  you have it. But yeah.
• 31:59
  Well, I wonder if it that like because I know with, you know,
• 32:02
  especially government side spending here.
• 32:04
  You know, the department doesn't spend their budget and their
• 32:08
  budgets, lowered the next, you know, the next image.
• 32:11
  So I wonder if it's that it's like we got to spin it
• 32:13
  absolutely. It could be it could be moving
• 32:18
  it forward. Like what are the major
• 32:19
  challenges associated with being a mobile app developer and a
• 32:23
  software developer would just you know development in general?
• 32:26
  I will. What are the main things that
• 32:28
  make it difficult challenge? You on a daily basis and a daily
• 32:33
  basis. You know, really these days it's
• 32:37
  sad to say but it's what it is. Apple break in this release kind
• 32:42
  of thing. Damn, yeah.
• 32:46
  I like it. So actually last year I switched
• 32:48
  from an iPhone to Android pixel just to see, you know what
• 32:53
  Android was, like, you know, keeping up with it but also
• 32:56
  because I was 13, was just such a mess, like on the development
• 33:01
  side, I could see, you know, it was just introducing and apple
• 33:05
  seems to have this up and down cycle of, they release something
• 33:09
  which just which is kind of Takes a lot of things on both
• 33:12
  the development side, but also on the user side.
• 33:15
  And I was the team was one of those and I was like, all right,
• 33:18
  I'm going to take a break from IOS and you know from an iPhone
• 33:22
  and check out Android and so it is just a matter of, you know,
• 33:28
  what are we what, what kind of work around what's not going to
• 33:33
  work as expected when I try to implement a feature and how am I
• 33:37
  going to go? You know, how am I going to fix
• 33:38
  that? And there's things that you know
• 33:40
  given the years I know from the get-go like it still hasn't been
• 33:44
  fixed or still behaves weird and you have to do this weird little
• 33:47
  trick to get us to work or you know, this will not work in
• 33:53
  certain situations and so I have to be mindful of either.
• 33:57
  Are we going to hit that situation and do I have to work
• 34:00
  around it or are we not, you know?
• 34:02
  So so those. Yeah, that's the challenge
• 34:04
  there, it's not necessarily With iOS in general.
• 34:09
  It's not necessarily trying to keep up with the changes.
• 34:12
  I think they do a good job of making the changes iterative
• 34:16
  iterative. So, you know, they might pack in
• 34:19
  some new features that make things a little easier.
• 34:23
  I mentioned Swift UI earlier that, that is a big change and
• 34:28
  it does require a little bit more, you know, kind of research
• 34:33
  of learning, what those changes, how those changes will impact.
• 34:37
  You're not even in fact it's just it's a different way of
• 34:41
  doing development for iOS. That is optional.
• 34:46
  You can use it or you don't have to use it.
• 34:49
  You can use the existing way, which of course, where I'm at
• 34:52
  right now, you know, because we're not going to be just
• 34:55
  supporting iOS 13 and above, we're not going to jump on that.
• 34:58
  So but I mean, on a broader sense, I think when I was doing
• 35:04
  more broad range development, especially with web app
• 35:07
  development, But they're there was the keeping up with
• 35:10
  technology, keeping up with new Frameworks, or keeping up with
• 35:13
  new ways that, you know, the Frameworks change just because
• 35:17
  that is definitely more of an open source environment.
• 35:22
  And so having those, you know, Frameworks change all the time,
• 35:27
  having new Frameworks, do you know, pants hear things or do
• 35:32
  things, more securely having to keep up with that knowledge.
• 35:35
  That was the challenge there. To which mobile app software.
• 35:41
  Do you think is the best one or the best?
• 35:43
  Maybe, let's say, the best for the user in general, it's going
• 35:49
  to sound, like I'm biased, I'm going to say iOS, but I think
• 35:53
  when I was using it, like I always suggest feels, you know,
• 35:57
  iPhone, having used the, and the pixel for a year, there were
• 36:02
  things with it. Like, it definitely comes down
• 36:04
  to like a PC versus MAC debate, right?
• 36:07
  Right. Okay, you see, I always know,
• 36:09
  you know, with Windows machines, it always feels like after a
• 36:11
  year, it's kind of getting sluggish.
• 36:13
  And you know, I remember when I own, you know, Windows machines,
• 36:17
  it was that was around the time you want to reformat and restore
• 36:21
  backup and it would, you know, be honest Feet Again.
• 36:25
  The pixel is the same thing after about a year, battery life
• 36:28
  was, you know, getting pretty funky weird things would happen.
• 36:34
  Like I'd be listening to Spotify and I'd want Take a picture and
• 36:37
  that would just reset my phone. So.
• 36:41
  But there were also some features on there too.
• 36:43
  That, you know, Apple needs to catch up with like, the call
• 36:49
  screening feature having it screen calls that it didn't
• 36:53
  recognize. And letting me see, like, I
• 36:56
  don't know. Are you familiar with that
• 36:57
  feature? Have you heard about that?
• 37:00
  But basically basically what happens is if a phone comes
• 37:04
  through or sorry, if I phone call comes through that you
• 37:06
  don't Recognize it will say, you know, ask you, if you want to
• 37:10
  answer it or if you want to screen it and when you screen
• 37:12
  it, it it reads out in tax like you could see it in its talking
• 37:16
  to the person calling saying, like the user you're calling
• 37:19
  doesn't recognize this number. Can you say why you're calling?
• 37:22
  And I can see their answer, you know, what is it?
• 37:28
  If they could say like, hey this is why I'm calling.
• 37:30
  I could press a button saying, like, tell me more and have a
• 37:32
  conversation, and I could choose to take it or to say, I'll call
• 37:34
  you back and I was really sold on it.
• 37:36
  When I was out with a friend, he had a Google sorry, pixel 3.
• 37:40
  And I was like, I heard about the call screen feature.
• 37:43
  And at that point, his wife decided to call.
• 37:45
  He's like, oh, here, let me show you, and he screen is like the
• 37:48
  user you calling doesn't recognize, you know, this
• 37:52
  number. Can you tell why you calling?
• 37:54
  And I could read her saying, seriously.
• 37:57
  You in this to me. So it's so that.
• 38:01
  Yeah, that was a cool feature, really helpful feature.
• 38:05
  But yeah, but in general, iOS is just a little bit more.
• 38:12
  Yeah. It's just, it's just a little
• 38:13
  bit more tighter. It feels tighter.
• 38:16
  I have an experience that particular thing that you said,
• 38:19
  but I did experience something kind of similar many, many years
• 38:23
  ago, that was really odd that I don't know if many people know
• 38:27
  All know about this, but in like, let's say, 2009 something
• 38:32
  like that. So, A long time ago, I A friend
• 38:36
  of mine called up my home phone, or he text my home phone, right?
• 38:42
  Which I didn't even know you could do, but apparently, you
• 38:45
  can do that. And if you do that what well
• 38:49
  back then, what would happen is you would receive sort of like a
• 38:54
  either a call or voicemail. I think it was Colin Murphy is a
• 38:58
  call or voicemail one of the two, but when you pick it up,
• 39:01
  you will get a robotic voice. So, what I heard on the phone
• 39:04
  was, hey, Christian, are you going to come to the skate park
• 39:12
  today? See you later.
• 39:17
  It's like you shut all your blinds at that point.
• 39:23
  Lock the doors. Like I suppose you just randomly
• 39:30
  come across these things, a lot of time by accident.
• 39:32
  But yeah, that thing that you just laid out that just seems
• 39:35
  like just like a way of trolling someone, because they know what
• 39:39
  you're doing. Like, your friend knew what they
• 39:40
  were doing the like, why are you doing this to me, man?
• 39:42
  Yeah, right right? Yeah, yeah.
• 39:45
  It's just a new tool for Mischief.
• 39:47
  I'd rather someone just be like, text me.
• 39:49
  Be like, I just don't talk to you rather than just her.
• 39:58
  So what are your kind of goals and aspirations with with your,
• 40:03
  with your career at what, what are the main things you want to
• 40:05
  achieve? Because you mentioned that, you
• 40:06
  had this major career change which will will backtrack will
• 40:09
  get to that. But I wanted to kind of know
• 40:12
  like where the future is because a lot of people as you say you
• 40:16
  did it in reverse, you started as an independent contractor and
• 40:19
  you sort of moved forward to corporate so that intrigues me
• 40:22
  because a lot of people will probably do it the other way
• 40:24
  around, would be trying to get out of corporate to set up their
• 40:27
  own. Things.
• 40:27
  They've got that sort of freedom of choice as far as like time is
• 40:31
  concerned. So what were your kind of like
• 40:34
  goals and aspirations for your career right now?
• 40:38
  Yeah, I mean career-wise, I think I'm, you know, pretty
• 40:44
  satisfied with it at this point. Like I think I've kind of
• 40:48
  reached a point where you don't for the next few years.
• 40:51
  I think I'm comfortable with where I'm at, because I think
• 40:56
  especially with I've always worked from home when it came to
• 41:00
  software development, you know, freelancing.
• 41:03
  And then the company I worked for was based all the way on the
• 41:06
  other side of the states. And so yeah, so was working from
• 41:11
  home there. I actually joined me of a
• 41:13
  because I kind of wanted to see what it was like to work in an
• 41:15
  office and you know, started in February and then March comes
• 41:19
  around and we're all so yeah. And so. at the same time, I got
• 41:28
  that, you know, it's scratched by at least working from an
• 41:32
  office for for, about a month and a half and it's like, okay,
• 41:34
  this is what it's like, you know, commutes still kind of
• 41:36
  suck and but it was nice that, you know, see people and but at
• 41:43
  the same time, I think the difference with the larger
• 41:45
  companies is, you know, I'm on meetings a lot even, you know,
• 41:50
  video meetings all the time and so you get that interaction, it
• 41:54
  might not be, you know in person but it's A lot more than I had
• 41:58
  before, you know, when I was working at the smaller company.
• 42:02
  So, I think, yeah. Just, I mean, eventually, maybe
• 42:06
  I'd like to kind of move into a management type role is I do,
• 42:11
  you know when I left Film Production and post-production I
• 42:15
  was a manager of a team of editors of about 25 people and
• 42:20
  and that was, you know, great because there's the, I mean, I
• 42:24
  think I really enjoyed the kind of the mentoring aspect to And
• 42:29
  I'm actually kind of found, I've been able to take on that role
• 42:33
  by having a larger team. They're people I can kind of
• 42:36
  mentor and and then also, you know, peers that I can work
• 42:40
  alongside with which has been great, like yesterday.
• 42:41
  I spent, most of my day working with another iOS Developer, you
• 42:45
  know, he shared his screen and we just kind of walk through
• 42:47
  code and, you know, took a sizable chunk of code and kind
• 42:52
  of changed it up. So it was it made more sense.
• 42:58
  And then, on a, you know, on another level I've been part of
• 43:03
  a group of really good group, called Underdog, Deb's, which
• 43:07
  they have you heard of them or and rings the bell, some reason.
• 43:11
  Okay. Yeah.
• 43:11
  So they basically help underprivileged and formerly
• 43:16
  incarcerated, people get jobs in development and and so yeah, I
• 43:23
  came across them a couple of months ago and Just thought it
• 43:28
  was really good, I really good idea.
• 43:29
  They're doing a lot of good work and so I jumped aboard and
• 43:32
  started mentoring to developers and one of them actually just
• 43:35
  got a job, a few weeks ago, his first iOS development job and
• 43:40
  and so that's been great so that, you know, again that kind
• 43:42
  of helps that, you know, again where I kind of want to go.
• 43:45
  So I feel like I'm yeah, definitely moving in that
• 43:47
  direction and but it also helps as well because that I, you
• 43:54
  know, I have I've kind of got back into In writing again and
• 43:59
  all the and also all the way back to my college, a started
• 44:02
  doing dabbling in music production again and you know,
• 44:06
  playing around and recording some stuff too.
• 44:08
  So so I think that helps kind of, you know, temper any, you
• 44:14
  know, feeling of like I need to, you know, keep the, you know, I
• 44:18
  any need to like keep, I don't want to say, keep going.
• 44:21
  I feel like I am growing like I think but in definitely
• 44:24
  different areas. So I don't feel like any big
• 44:26
  urge to Shift anything, just yet that thing you were talking
• 44:30
  about with regards to like, wanting to know what, it's like
• 44:32
  to work in an office. Like I know where you're coming
• 44:35
  from on that. Like, I've mostly worked in
• 44:38
  offices. So like I've always been, you
• 44:40
  know, really itching to do remote.
• 44:42
  When I finally got to do it as I can, thank the Lord.
• 44:46
  But, you know, everyone has a different experience, right?
• 44:49
  But I totally get it because to me that kind of feels like
• 44:53
  missing the university days. Almost as far as As it pertains
• 44:58
  to let you know, missing chance. Encounters chance conversations
• 45:02
  you know, obviously a lot of the time in office is people were
• 45:06
  coming and going, you know, I mean the turnover rate can be
• 45:09
  behind not always necessarily for bad reasons.
• 45:11
  Just because people move quickly, you know, every six
• 45:14
  months every year, whatever, right?
• 45:16
  So, you know, you meet a lot of different people and you're
• 45:19
  working with a lot of different people and you don't get that
• 45:22
  experience. If you're working from home, if
• 45:24
  you're independent, whatever and me I don't think I'll ever miss
• 45:28
  that because I have work where you know, I get to work with
• 45:32
  people. I do volunteering to do various
• 45:34
  things where I can have that experience but I need to be on
• 45:38
  my own when I'm doing work. Like I've never really spoken
• 45:42
  about this before. Maybe I'll cover it in a video
• 45:44
  one time, but I genuinely worked in an office one time where
• 45:49
  there were people grown adults. Screaming and like, foreign
• 45:55
  stuff at each other and like, okay, we worked in marketing,
• 45:58
  okay? You would never see this shit in
• 46:00
  like it it just never happens. People are quiet.
• 46:03
  They're doing a job. There might be some quiet
• 46:06
  murmurs but there's none of this because everyone's busy getting
• 46:08
  shit done. All right.
• 46:10
  Well there's like Nerf gun battles every so often.
• 46:12
  Yeah. Maybe if you're working it like
• 46:14
  a fuckin stop assumption. Yeah exactly.
• 46:16
  Right. But the major companies, I love
• 46:19
  the time. You just want to kind of come in
• 46:21
  and get the job done and go home.
• 46:22
  App and, you know, I guess I was kind of disgruntled anyway, but
• 46:27
  like it just really bothered me. I was like, I've luckily, there
• 46:32
  was somewhere that I could escape to it was a higher floor
• 46:36
  because they had like, a certain levels of flaws that you that
• 46:39
  they owned in this building. So they had like a lounge place
• 46:42
  at the top of the building where you could sit and do your work.
• 46:45
  And I would always go there because it was just too noisy on
• 46:48
  the way on the floor that I worked and I was like, is this
• 46:51
  is ridiculous. This is worse than school like
• 46:54
  how loud this has. But you know, at the same time,
• 46:59
  you know, is good to have people around you, you know, it's
• 47:03
  useful. It can sometimes help with the
• 47:05
  work as far as getting stuff done.
• 47:07
  You know, there are certain limitations to, you know, only
• 47:10
  having Zoom calls and start and I can only imagine how difficult
• 47:13
  it must be. If you need to sort of
• 47:16
  communicate with your, you know, your colleagues in the coding
• 47:20
  situation. But then again, thing you do is
• 47:23
  computer based and right, you know, so there is that element
• 47:27
  that's not to say that isn't the case with marketing but
• 47:29
  marketing is a lot more And it just somehow differs.
• 47:34
  I can't explain it. But it's like sometimes it is
• 47:36
  useful to have that occasional physical meeting, but I did kind
• 47:39
  of find that I could do my job, pretty much 100% from home.
• 47:44
  And like we don't really need like one meeting per month.
• 47:49
  Like there were so many meetings where I was like this could have
• 47:51
  been an email like this does right.
• 47:53
  You know like a most of the time I find myself presenting, email,
• 47:56
  sorry, resenting, the meetings. I'd be like, right?
• 47:59
  This is I could be getting shit done right now.
• 48:01
  We're Yeah, no, no, I totally get that and but I think, yeah,
• 48:06
  I think to your point too, is like marketing, having the
• 48:10
  people in the room and having that energy, I think it's, you
• 48:13
  can't get that. Like, it definitely not to say,
• 48:16
  like, you know, it gets killed, you know, video conference but
• 48:20
  it's just, I feel like you don't have that Synergy, just because
• 48:25
  everybody's off up in a grid and so that just, you know,
• 48:28
  subconsciously or technically it just kind of kills that.
• 48:32
  Do you know that whatever that extra thing is where I?
• 48:35
  And I would say that like with technology like it with
• 48:40
  development and everything you don't necessarily need that, you
• 48:43
  know, everything is a lot more. I mean you know, just the nature
• 48:48
  of it, it's much more logic base.
• 48:49
  Anyways, it's more technical you don't you don't lose that or I
• 48:54
  mean I don't think that things, I think it's what you do lose in
• 48:59
  that aspect is just the kind of camaraderie that you get.
• 49:02
  That group, you know, being in that group environment.
• 49:06
  But I think that camaraderie, I think You know, and something on
• 49:10
  the marketing side in the creative side that goes into,
• 49:14
  you know, II feel like that goes into what the output is.
• 49:17
  Whereas that's not, you know, that camaraderie doesn't really
• 49:20
  show up in code at this point. I think it really depends on
• 49:23
  your team. Like I've just unfortunately had
• 49:25
  like negative experiences so oh yeah.
• 49:28
  Alright. So for me I was just very, very
• 49:31
  eager to get out of corporate because I the one thing that I
• 49:33
  was always bothered about corporate is that I have lots of
• 49:37
  ideas naturally as a creative person.
• 49:39
  And the reality is when you're working for someone for an
• 49:43
  organization, you know, and this is one of the reasons why I
• 49:46
  asked you those creativity questions earlier.
• 49:48
  Because for me there was always a ceiling with regards to where
• 49:52
  my ideas could go. So you might have like a new
• 49:55
  manager or new head of Department who might humor you
• 49:58
  for a while, but eventually it's just going to be no.
• 50:01
  This is how I want to do it and you're like, but this is not
• 50:04
  logical or this would be better or we tried this six months ago
• 50:08
  and it didn't work and they're just like Uh-huh.
• 50:10
  Just do it and then write you do it and then they come to you
• 50:14
  like a month later. And I like, why is this not
• 50:16
  working? And you're like, and yeah I
• 50:19
  don't know. And then there was so many ideas
• 50:21
  that I had where they just would never do it.
• 50:24
  Or, you know, they did it after I left or I don't know, there
• 50:28
  was just so many things that just piss me off about it and
• 50:30
  I'm just so glad to not working. And cooperating by ya, I get no
• 50:36
  right a different experience so we're and I think like in If
• 50:39
  they're you, if you look at it, like it seems like, you know, on
• 50:44
  the marketing side to there's, you know, at the corporate level
• 50:46
  everything is also section off. Everybody has their own little
• 50:49
  area that they work with and I think on the app side of things
• 50:52
  in this Opera development, side of things, it naturally makes
• 50:55
  sense and works fine. But yeah, on the creative side
• 50:59
  of things, it doesn't like your you're just not able to Yeah,
• 51:04
  really kind of expand and I think after so many times of
• 51:06
  getting beaten back down, you kind of gave up and that just
• 51:09
  lessons your impact in general. So I could definitely see that,
• 51:13
  you know, I think that being said, like I think with
• 51:17
  development, there could be a point where it's too, you know,
• 51:21
  reigned in. But I think, in general, at
• 51:25
  least from what I'm seeing and F maybe.
• 51:26
  Again, I've only been, you know, in the corporate side for about
• 51:29
  a year, now I asked me in a year, I can be like this, you
• 51:32
  take these chains. I should hope not.
• 51:35
  I mean I would hope that because there's another thing as well.
• 51:38
  Like that question, you get in job interviews with his they
• 51:41
  were, do you think you're going to be in five years?
• 51:43
  And I used to think that that question was really dumb and I
• 51:47
  do still think it's a bit dumb, but I would ask like, where do
• 51:51
  you see yourself in like two years?
• 51:53
  I think that's a lot more sensible because with you, you
• 51:56
  know, you're kind of looking at it.
• 51:58
  Like you know what I like. I imagine that job security is
• 52:02
  one thing that you're looking at like This, this is a lot, you
• 52:05
  know, more preferable to freelance where I have to, you
• 52:07
  know, constantly be on the ground, trying to find projects
• 52:10
  and you know I could get kicked off of the project at any time
• 52:13
  and that's not to say that that can't happen in inner in a
• 52:18
  corporate job. But like you're protected in the
• 52:19
  sense that it's You know that projects take longer in general
• 52:26
  and you know, it's a lot harder to end, you know, relations with
• 52:31
  someone if you're working for an organization versus if you just
• 52:34
  have like a contract on a freelance basis.
• 52:38
  The other part, you can just be like, we changed our mind and
• 52:41
  now we don't want to do this anymore and you just rescind it.
• 52:43
  And it's like well fuck what do I do now?
• 52:45
  But so I get like the reasons why.
• 52:50
  And I think that generally What you do?
• 52:53
  Always have to have a rough plan.
• 52:55
  You know, me, anyone that says, like, they don't have a plan is
• 52:57
  just being silly. They, they will always be like a
• 52:59
  rough idea in your head of like, okay in theory, this is what I
• 53:03
  would like to be doing in like a year or two years from now and
• 53:06
  right. But that's why that question is
• 53:08
  silly because in five years five years is a long time but you
• 53:11
  could probably map out a at least between six months to two
• 53:15
  years. That's right.
• 53:16
  Right. And I feel like five years.
• 53:18
  Also, you both sides of the table.
• 53:20
  No, you're lying. It's like I lost I'll be here,
• 53:23
  I'll be excelling at this company.
• 53:24
  You know, it's like five years. That means I mean the best the
• 53:28
  best response to that question is I'll be sitting in your chair
• 53:31
  like we all know that. Yeah.
• 53:33
  Yeah right but it just it can go either way because either they
• 53:35
  think you sound like an arrogant prick and they don't want
• 53:37
  anything to do with you or they're like haha that was great
• 53:40
  your yeah, right? Yeah, right.
• 53:45
  Yeah. I mean yeah we could also be a
• 53:47
  kiss-ass type thing to wear as well.
• 53:48
  No, but it that again, it depends because some places one
• 53:51
  kiss or sizzle. A lot of places won't cry taxes,
• 53:54
  but why me like it with an answer to that question?
• 53:56
  It's like because you'll be by you know, boss because you'll be
• 53:58
  a director and I'll be in that chair and we'll be so happy
• 54:01
  together. I hate kiss our asses.
• 54:07
  Yeah. Anyway, let's move it forward.
• 54:11
  Yes, he worked in a full-time capacity as well as on an
• 54:15
  independent contractor basis. Like how what the major ways
• 54:18
  that this kind of how? How did these two?
• 54:22
  Two types of work differ. You know, that there's going to
• 54:25
  be obvious answers to this question and we've already
• 54:27
  explored some of them but like what are the benefits and
• 54:29
  drawbacks of Beach and like, you know, how do they really
• 54:33
  compare? Yeah, I mean so I think for me
• 54:36
  because I started in a bit of Contracting just because I
• 54:39
  needed to get experience on my resume anyway, so it was
• 54:42
  different. You know, there's definitely a
• 54:43
  different experience there than I think kind of your season
• 54:47
  contractor, who's you know, freelancing contractor contract.
• 54:53
  And and so for me, I mean, first off it was the pay scale because
• 54:57
  I was, you know, charging, so little just to get the
• 54:59
  experience and I think also, I didn't I didn't totally get into
• 55:08
  these situations. But you hear the horror stories,
• 55:10
  where you know, the goalposts is moved over, you know, or people
• 55:13
  keep coming back asking for, you know, new revisions.
• 55:17
  I never experienced that. I was lucky enough to, you know,
• 55:21
  the contracts. I had the So I worked with were,
• 55:23
  you know, great, they liked what I delivered.
• 55:25
  I'd like their ideas, it was it was a good relationship with all
• 55:29
  of them. So I didn't really have any, you
• 55:33
  know, horror stories like that but I think given a year or two
• 55:35
  more of it, I probably would have run into that.
• 55:40
  But, you know, and then I think I kind of had that So with the
• 55:50
  first company, I worked with them being a small agency.
• 55:52
  I kind of had that freelance feel to it, where I was working
• 55:58
  on a new project. You know, every six month, the
• 56:00
  new all new app. Now, not even like a new feature
• 56:02
  in the whole new app every six months or so.
• 56:04
  And and so that was nice. You know, that was funny kept
• 56:07
  things interesting. And and I feel like a lot of the
• 56:11
  challenges were the same but I didn't have that issue where I
• 56:17
  was interfacing with the Don't you know, where, you know, could
• 56:21
  turn, you know, there were people there, you know, program
• 56:25
  product managers who deal with the client and interface with
• 56:29
  the client and and the still things.
• 56:31
  And I you know, I talked to the client to as needed just to
• 56:34
  explain things or walk through things.
• 56:37
  But I think you know if going from the anecdotes I've heard
• 56:42
  interfacing with the clients always the gamble, right?
• 56:45
  And so so I think I kind of came out of that without having
• 56:54
  having really face that and then, you know, going into
• 56:57
  corporate. It's the big difference is, you
• 56:59
  know, the project is, is the same, you know, it doesn't
• 57:03
  change. Its, you know, I'm working in
• 57:07
  one specific area, fixing bugs on that adding features to it.
• 57:12
  And, and that's it, you know, and granted it's only been
• 57:16
  about, you know, almost six months, with Stevie, Yes, now,
• 57:20
  but you know, if we reach the end of the year and I'm still on
• 57:23
  the same, it'll be kind of one of the longer projects I've
• 57:26
  worked on, and that'll be that going for.
• 57:29
  So that's yeah, that's the difference.
• 57:31
  There is a noticeable difference for me.
• 57:33
  Thank you for sharing that. So final question, as far as the
• 57:38
  software side of things is concerned, what makes the
• 57:41
  perfect type of software, in your opinion.
• 57:45
  That's That's a good question. I and I really I think with that
• 57:52
  it comes down to I think and you see this with Apple products a
• 57:58
  lot, it's just the intuitiveness.
• 58:01
  You know, if there's a design that you know, a lot of people
• 58:05
  talk about like, you know, it's a delight to use.
• 58:07
  I think that's that that's kind of the icing there.
• 58:11
  I think, if you get, if you nail the intuitiveness first and then
• 58:15
  make it delightful to use Then you, I think that that's the
• 58:21
  perfect piece of software and and I actually, I could point to
• 58:25
  the Tesla Model 3. Have you seen the so that it's
• 58:30
  all touchscreen? Right.
• 58:31
  The yeah has no, you know. It just has, you know, the
• 58:35
  indicator stalk. And another stock for yo,
• 58:40
  interfacing with the gear shift, but everything else is all
• 58:42
  touchscreen. And if that's not intuitive
• 58:47
  that, Cars, not selling. I mean even worse that cars,
• 58:49
  like crashing into things. You know, people are trying to
• 58:51
  figure out, you know, how to turn the wipers on or whatever
• 58:55
  and they did a solid job, making it intuitive.
• 58:59
  I don't necessarily think there's the Delight to use part
• 59:04
  of it. There's some of it there, but I,
• 59:06
  but I think at the same time, it just Nails the intuitiveness.
• 59:09
  And, and I think that's that's perfect for it because it's
• 59:13
  utilitarian thing and I feel like that's something car
• 59:15
  companies have been struggling. Get right for a long time.
• 59:18
  Like I think all there in dash, you know, systems up until
• 59:23
  recently have been just like this is like I have to dig
• 59:28
  through a menu, just to change a radio station, you know.
• 59:30
  Yeah, the guy. Yeah, I'd agree with that as
• 59:35
  well. I think ultimately is always
• 59:37
  going to be about the users experience, you actually isn't
• 59:40
  it? Yeah, yeah, awesome man.
• 59:43
  Yeah, let's let's move it forward.
• 59:45
  So, we've mentioned that you I worked as a film producer and
• 59:48
  writer. So tell us some of the projects
• 59:50
  that you've worked on and I mean you could sort of touched on why
• 59:54
  you made that switch. But it is a is a major switch
• 59:58
  from, you know, film to software development.
• 1:00:00
  So let's explore that a little bit.
• 1:00:02
  Like you did mention that it was to do with sort of burning out
• 1:00:06
  and stuff. But like, why didn't you sort of
• 1:00:08
  like take time from that? And then maybe try a different
• 1:00:12
  area of film development, or maybe take a break from it and
• 1:00:15
  return to it? Like what?
• 1:00:16
  Why did you just Besides, you know what?
• 1:00:18
  I'm going to run with this software gig and go down that
• 1:00:22
  route instead. Yeah, I mean I think we'll so
• 1:00:25
  with film. I feel like I kind of explored
• 1:00:27
  every area with it. Like I did, you know, production
• 1:00:30
  I did writing and directing Motion Graphics, even, you know.
• 1:00:34
  Composing and and I think for me, for me personally, I feel
• 1:00:40
  like in terms of because, I mean, the overall goal was to,
• 1:00:43
  you know, make my own stuff, which I did.
• 1:00:46
  But I think, Think the real goal was to make stuff that like I
• 1:00:51
  was proud of and so I think you know, for a while I think the
• 1:00:58
  last thing I made which was a, you know, time travel comedy
• 1:01:03
  short, it was I liked it, I thought it, you know, I did a
• 1:01:10
  good job with it, but I felt like I was kind of at the point
• 1:01:14
  where I was getting diminishing returns like and I think part of
• 1:01:16
  that was just me. Doubt like I wasn't getting as
• 1:01:21
  good as I thought I could be in a reasonable timeframe where I
• 1:01:27
  felt like. Yeah, you know I could
• 1:01:28
  definitely see, you know, the act of burnout happening faster
• 1:01:33
  than the quality. And I think I think there's a
• 1:01:35
  point, you know, where you reach the next level and it's just
• 1:01:38
  like that kind of refreshes you and I just don't think I kind of
• 1:01:41
  miss that like kind of plateaued a little bit before that would
• 1:01:44
  happen and you know Just it was too slow of a great Improvement,
• 1:01:51
  sound really technical about this but it was basically it's
• 1:01:53
  just, you know, yeah, just feeling like I wasn't.
• 1:01:59
  Getting a good emotional return, and it was coming from me at
• 1:02:03
  that point and fair play man. Yeah.
• 1:02:06
  And so, that's what it was just like, you know what, let's
• 1:02:09
  let's, let's switch this off for development because, you know,
• 1:02:13
  because with film writing production all that even you
• 1:02:18
  know, doing freelance work and freelance post-production for
• 1:02:21
  people. There's just that abstract area
• 1:02:25
  of like it just doesn't feel right?
• 1:02:26
  It doesn't fit if you'll finish with development, it's like it
• 1:02:30
  works or it doesn't right. It's, you know, and so I feel
• 1:02:33
  like that's partly why subconsciously, I think I was
• 1:02:36
  guided to it. It was just like it was
• 1:02:39
  definitely black or white and and I felt like maybe I needed
• 1:02:42
  that to refresh that, you know, that abstract sense of
• 1:02:48
  everything not and you know, they always say like you, you
• 1:02:51
  know, whatever. Artist artistic Endeavor.
• 1:02:54
  You're working on never feels finish.
• 1:02:58
  So but I feel like that's not the case in software development
• 1:03:01
  unless, of course, you know, going back to the clients who
• 1:03:03
  always with the goal post. But, you know, there's still a
• 1:03:06
  hard finish line or a hard like, you know.
• 1:03:09
  Okay, this feature is done whereas with film.
• 1:03:13
  It's like maybe I can tweak this edit and it'll feel faster or
• 1:03:17
  it'll feel tighter. Maybe it needs a better color
• 1:03:21
  correcting maybe the color correcting is off.
• 1:03:22
  Off. And that's why this seems
• 1:03:24
  looking too flat or maybe. We shot the scene to flat and
• 1:03:29
  there's nothing we can do, unless we want to go reshoot it
• 1:03:32
  again. And so, but that being said,
• 1:03:35
  like I think doing software development and kind of, you
• 1:03:40
  know, let me kind of recharge and that sense because you have
• 1:03:43
  kind of come back to starting, you know, to writing again.
• 1:03:47
  But just like doing doing, we're projects like like one of the I
• 1:03:53
  did like just randomly. I have an idea.
• 1:03:55
  Yeah, I've been watching. South Park forever.
• 1:03:57
  Yeah. And I had a random idea of
• 1:03:59
  making of after watching it chapter 2 that horror movie like
• 1:04:05
  where the adults come back to their, you know, childhood
• 1:04:08
  Hometown. I was like, oh, what did we
• 1:04:10
  take? The South Park characters who
• 1:04:12
  make them have to come back to South Park.
• 1:04:13
  And so I made it this, you know, comedy Noir type thing and you
• 1:04:18
  know, it was just I had fun with it.
• 1:04:19
  I was like, all right, you know, I'm kind of, you know, I I felt
• 1:04:22
  more pleased with it than what I did in the past.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah. So I was like, okay, so maybe I
• 1:04:27
  recharge it off and I've kind of stepped away from it enough that
• 1:04:31
  I'm not as like, yeah, I'm not kicking myself as much and and I
• 1:04:35
  feel like, you know, being hard on yourself is kind of the one,
• 1:04:38
  one of the worst things you can do, you know, when it comes to
• 1:04:41
  creative Endeavors. Yeah, I've had a lot of people
• 1:04:45
  asked me in the past like, oh, you know, whether your ideas
• 1:04:48
  come from or how do you keep it going?
• 1:04:50
  And to be honest with you, the main thing that I Do is I just
• 1:04:53
  focus on letting the ideas come to me.
• 1:04:56
  Like I do have certain things on the back burner for like times
• 1:05:00
  when maybe I don't have as many ideas, but if I feel like, I
• 1:05:04
  don't know, I just don't have ideas.
• 1:05:05
  I just take a break, take a rest, you know, in and get go
• 1:05:09
  and get inspired. That's the key cleaning as well.
• 1:05:11
  Like, if you're feeling burnt out, if you're feeling like, you
• 1:05:15
  just don't have ideas like your kind of sick of it, take a
• 1:05:17
  break, like if you're not enjoying it, you shouldn't do
• 1:05:20
  it. That's the be-all-end-all woman,
• 1:05:22
  you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, it's not going
• 1:05:24
  anywhere. Like you can just come back to
• 1:05:26
  it and break. It will be the same thing, but
• 1:05:29
  you'll be different because you have breast experiences.
• 1:05:34
  Time has passed and it's fresh. And yes, the yeah, no, no, I
• 1:05:39
  totally get that Yankee. Say goodbye push too hard,
• 1:05:41
  people push themselves too hard and they shouldn't.
• 1:05:45
  Yeah, exactly right in the yeah. And that's where it was hard for
• 1:05:49
  me to do to make that transition because it's, you know, very
• 1:05:51
  much like I defined myself It's like, you don't want to be a
• 1:05:54
  screenwriter, want to be director and you know, got some
• 1:05:57
  stuff out, and it was just like, you know what, I'm something's
• 1:06:02
  just not working, right? So I just see how gotta take a,
• 1:06:05
  you know, a break from are not even a, you know, it was, it was
• 1:06:08
  very consciously. Like am I going to come back to
• 1:06:10
  this? I don't know, but it's just not
• 1:06:12
  working right now. - fair enough, man.
• 1:06:18
  This one's a bit of a, an interesting question.
• 1:06:20
  I've been asking a lot of my guests this recently, and I
• 1:06:23
  think it's always an interesting question to ask.
• 1:06:27
  What's the biggest life lesson that you've learned so far?
• 1:06:31
  You know, the biggest one was actually, when I was a kid, you
• 1:06:35
  know, I was getting stressed out, you had to take the SATs
• 1:06:39
  to, you know, the college exam, you know, for getting a college
• 1:06:43
  in my dad just kind of said, you know, Don't you know don't
• 1:06:49
  basically don't any time. Something seems hard just kind
• 1:06:53
  of persevere through it because you know you'll get basically
• 1:06:57
  get to a point where everything Feels, Alright?
• 1:06:59
  Again you know these things come in waves and so just any time
• 1:07:03
  things have felt difficult or it just felt like you know it's
• 1:07:08
  down the wrong path. They was just like, you know,
• 1:07:10
  it's keep, you know, keep optimistic about it and and you
• 1:07:15
  know the end and I feel like I definitely In returning to that
• 1:07:19
  during yellow the pandemic because it's just like, you
• 1:07:23
  know, these are definitely hard times and it's yeah.
• 1:07:26
  But you can look back to, you know, the flu pandemic, the, you
• 1:07:29
  know, back in 1918, you know, things did return to normal.
• 1:07:34
  And and so, it's just a matter of like, okay, just, you know,
• 1:07:37
  buckle down and and and a lot of what I've been telling myself
• 1:07:41
  and just, you know, people in general just like this is a
• 1:07:44
  unique time we've been at home, think about how you want.
• 1:07:47
  To remember how you use this time because it's going to be a
• 1:07:52
  memory soon. And it's not going to be like
• 1:07:56
  this way this indefinitely. So just you think about how you
• 1:07:59
  want to look back on this time and I think of it that way and
• 1:08:02
  so that's been helping for me and I and and so that's kind of
• 1:08:06
  you know a lifeless and I kind of pulled for my dad and kind of
• 1:08:11
  definitely figured out how to apply it for myself during this
• 1:08:15
  time. That's all that's awesome
• 1:08:17
  advice, man. Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:08:18
  Like, I totally agree with you and to be honest with you, the
• 1:08:21
  first time I've heard someone say something positive like
• 1:08:24
  that, like a lot of people have been sort of saying, you know, I
• 1:08:27
  got all, this is the new normal noun.
• 1:08:28
  It's never going to quite return to normal, you know, it's never
• 1:08:32
  going to end or this, that, and the other, and it's like that.
• 1:08:35
  Eventually, it does have to end. Like certain things will be
• 1:08:37
  different, but I think for the better, like, for example,
• 1:08:41
  personal hygiene, like, I've been saying this for years, like
• 1:08:45
  He-Man men's bathrooms. I walked into where, guys, just
• 1:08:47
  don't. Wash their hands or, you know,
• 1:08:50
  for example, and I've mentioned this on the podcast again.
• 1:08:52
  So sorry for the broken record, but since we've been talking
• 1:08:54
  about work, places where there is this kind of Underlining kind
• 1:09:00
  of Unwritten rule about sickness or at least there was where, you
• 1:09:04
  know, if you're sick, you need to still come to work.
• 1:09:07
  Regardless that you can't be sick, you know?
• 1:09:09
  They might say that you get sick, pay and blah, blah, blah,
• 1:09:12
  but at the end of the day, if you start being sick and it's
• 1:09:15
  sustained a long enough, they're just going to fire ask because
• 1:09:18
  they can easily replace you. That's the reality.
• 1:09:20
  So then there's this pressure to never be sick.
• 1:09:23
  Which for humans is impossible. We are going to get sick.
• 1:09:27
  It's a thing that Pants. It's just life.
• 1:09:31
  But here's the thing. Like the most, the best thing to
• 1:09:34
  do say, if someone's got a flu and it's flu season is just take
• 1:09:38
  it off, take a couple of days off come back then a you're not
• 1:09:42
  going to spread it. Therefore no one else is going
• 1:09:44
  to get it there for. You know, there's going to be
• 1:09:46
  less problems with retention and stuff and be.
• 1:09:51
  You're going to be able to return to work quicker.
• 1:09:53
  Because if you're pushing yourself to work, when you're
• 1:09:55
  sick your body, like someone told me, Said this to me
• 1:09:58
  recently, and I think this is the perfect way of explaining
• 1:10:01
  it. If you don't take a day to rest,
• 1:10:04
  your body will choose it for you and I think that's yeah, spot on
• 1:10:09
  and I think hopefully moving out of this covid-19 pandemic,
• 1:10:14
  they'll be more understanding and compassion from those
• 1:10:18
  employers to kind of say, okay they're sick, take you know,
• 1:10:23
  relatively speaking, the time that you need off to deal with
• 1:10:26
  it and don't worry. With you.
• 1:10:28
  Because obviously, if you talk about covid-19, everyone to take
• 1:10:32
  that seriously, but why not? You know, other viruses, you
• 1:10:36
  know, right, right. And but I feel like that's all.
• 1:10:39
  So, yeah, there's a lot of jobs where they just don't allow, you
• 1:10:45
  know, they don't have the system of play solo for.
• 1:10:47
  It's like, you know, you calling me, like, I'm sick.
• 1:10:49
  It's like, well, who were going to get to cover you?
• 1:10:51
  You know? They don't have enough people
• 1:10:53
  fuel problems that my problem. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:56
  Right. Right.
• 1:10:57
  And so, so I feel like there's, you know, there's there's a lot
• 1:11:01
  more. Yeah.
• 1:11:02
  Pressure put on employees and it was and those that because I
• 1:11:05
  think is that there's always this mistrust thing, like I
• 1:11:08
  don't know in my experience, particularly when I worked in
• 1:11:10
  like customer services years ago it would always be this thing of
• 1:11:13
  like you need to prove that you're sick.
• 1:11:15
  Yeah. Oh you you don't sound sick and
• 1:11:17
  it's like why it's not that kind of sick.
• 1:11:19
  And I sometimes I would just mess with them.
• 1:11:21
  So that when they would say that, I'd be like well I don't
• 1:11:24
  know man. I mean, I can go to the bathroom
• 1:11:26
  and call you next time. Pens.
• 1:11:28
  But you know right. Yeah, I don't know what you
• 1:11:33
  want. Some.
• 1:11:33
  Some audio visual proof or whatever because but that's a
• 1:11:38
  problem, but they should trust you but because there's so many
• 1:11:41
  people that try to exploit the system.
• 1:11:42
  They immediately don't trust you.
• 1:11:44
  And then that's the pressure, that's always there.
• 1:11:47
  And then like kind of why you can never be sick.
• 1:11:49
  So I hope right? Let's change, yeah.
• 1:11:51
  But at the same time I just don't feel like it's like,
• 1:11:54
  what's being exploited, right? It's like either, you're just
• 1:11:57
  not paid for that work. Work because you're out sick or
• 1:12:00
  you have sick time and you burn through a six-time it's just
• 1:12:03
  like, you know, what's to exploit?
• 1:12:05
  Its what a lot of time. I mean, because I've had both,
• 1:12:09
  I've had jobs where they don't pay you for the sick day.
• 1:12:13
  Normally, that's kind of a bit dodgy in the UK.
• 1:12:16
  I think it's normally like if they don't pay you, it'll be
• 1:12:19
  because like, I don't know, you work a casual zero hours
• 1:12:22
  contract or something like that. If it's a standard full-time
• 1:12:25
  contract, you should get statutory sick.
• 1:12:28
  By law. But here's the thing.
• 1:12:31
  They don't necessarily have to pay you start to G sick.
• 1:12:35
  Pay is the minimum pay that they that the government pays you all
• 1:12:40
  are done at that you get paid, right?
• 1:12:42
  But the employer doesn't have to pay you at the normal rate, they
• 1:12:46
  can just pray. It's that to do, right?
• 1:12:48
  So I think the statutory rate is just minimum wage.
• 1:12:50
  So like let's say you're running 10 pounds an hour in your
• 1:12:53
  current rate that be like, well, we're not going to pay you that
• 1:12:55
  because you're not here. So, we'll just pay you the
• 1:12:57
  minimum. All right?
• 1:12:59
  And there's like I mean you can do that.
• 1:13:02
  It's legal but it's bit shitty. I don't know.
• 1:13:05
  Yeah, right. It is but at the same time to
• 1:13:07
  you, like it's, you know, then I guess there is that.
• 1:13:11
  I mean, you know, that there is that again you know, what's been
• 1:13:16
  exploited to it because like there's like a limit to how much
• 1:13:19
  sick time you get right over there on the contract or is it?
• 1:13:23
  Yeah I mean I suppose the only way you could exploit the system
• 1:13:26
  would be if With use your sick day like if you're given sick
• 1:13:32
  days where you're allowed to be sick and it's always kind of
• 1:13:35
  this holiday I suppose in theory you could take them as as like
• 1:13:40
  holiday days, right? Remember like I worked in the
• 1:13:43
  supermarket. One time I work with this guy
• 1:13:46
  who in retrospect was very clever.
• 1:13:48
  I mean he used to mess around and fuck around that he didn't
• 1:13:51
  take it seriously but he was a smart, dude.
• 1:13:54
  He knew what he was doing. So he exploited the six system
• 1:13:57
  by Basically, I think it was every year or every quarter you
• 1:14:01
  had a certain amount of sick days that you could take before
• 1:14:03
  you got formal warning. So he would take those but his,
• 1:14:07
  his the, the detail, right? It was always periods.
• 1:14:12
  So if you take off, say, two weeks, right?
• 1:14:15
  That counts as one interval. So, this was bullshit, right?
• 1:14:18
  If I would take off, 26 days or three sick days in one period,
• 1:14:22
  right? They count as those intervals so
• 1:14:26
  it wouldn't matter if the other Person is taken off.
• 1:14:29
  Let's say they've taken off two weeks and that only that only
• 1:14:34
  count as one interval, where, as if I've taken three sick days in
• 1:14:37
  space, like six months, I get punished, but he doesn't even
• 1:14:42
  know. He's clearly taking the piss
• 1:14:44
  right like, don't look sick for like two months.
• 1:14:47
  Sorry for a few weeks with the flu.
• 1:14:50
  Like that's bullshit. And they knew that he was doing
• 1:14:52
  this but he was clever about it because he kept just, you know,
• 1:14:55
  making sure that he do it up eventually and he did it by that
• 1:15:00
  system. It's very clever but yeah, yeah,
• 1:15:04
  that's okay, I can see that but that but that's the system, you
• 1:15:07
  know, their own system shooting themselves and you know it's
• 1:15:10
  made to be exploited. Crazy crazy.
• 1:15:15
  Yes you're from Tucson Arizona. So what are the best and worst
• 1:15:19
  things about Tucson? Arizona.
• 1:15:21
  Yeah to side. Well I've been here, you know,
• 1:15:24
  basically my whole life. I was born in Portland, Oregon
• 1:15:27
  Kovu You know, when I was 2. So just enough to get used to
• 1:15:30
  the weather there. And now, you know, the worst
• 1:15:32
  thing, obviously in Tucson is, I don't know if you're familiar
• 1:15:35
  with Arizona, but Southern Arizona, it's, it's the heat.
• 1:15:39
  Okay, you know, it gets up to a couple years, back it up in
• 1:15:44
  Phoenix, was just a little north of us.
• 1:15:45
  It got to about 120 Fahrenheit, it's about 40 degrees.
• 1:15:51
  Centigrade, I think, maybe. So yeah, it just basically, it
• 1:15:55
  was enough to shut down. Our International Airport there
• 1:15:59
  because the Pirates were melting.
• 1:16:01
  Oh wow you got a so. So so yeah the the he is killer
• 1:16:08
  here during the summer how do you come up with that?
• 1:16:10
  He when he gets that bad. So what do you do in doors and
• 1:16:13
  turn on the AC? That's yeah it's basically how
• 1:16:17
  but I mean that but the upside though is you know because of
• 1:16:19
  the sun because of the and and you know it's pretty clear
• 1:16:24
  year-round. We just got solar panels
• 1:16:26
  installed. Oh, yeah.
• 1:16:28
  That's yes, that's already good point.
• 1:16:30
  Actually, you must be able to power so much with.
• 1:16:35
  It's all about those. Well, so, our roof is not like
• 1:16:37
  the roof wasn't able to get as much solar panels that we, as
• 1:16:42
  we'd like, to be able to power everything.
• 1:16:44
  So so we're not 100% solar, but, but we're close enough.
• 1:16:49
  And it, you know, definitely brings down our electricity
• 1:16:51
  bill, right? I have a friend who he's got
• 1:16:54
  full solar, I think he's more than he needs Plus.
• 1:16:57
  He's got like the Tesla up our walls to store that, you know,
• 1:17:00
  powerstar at night. So he's like totally able to,
• 1:17:04
  you know, go off the grid and all that.
• 1:17:07
  But but yeah, in terms of things I mean Tucson is nice will cost
• 1:17:12
  of living is amazing here. Like, you know, with with tech
• 1:17:16
  jobs. I've, you know, interviewed an
• 1:17:19
  apple interview to Google and just the idea of Moving there is
• 1:17:28
  you know, cuz here, you know, we've got, you know, pretty
• 1:17:32
  sizable house to story and it costs, maybe I would easily say
• 1:17:39
  like a tenth of what just a small, like, you know,
• 1:17:44
  two-bedroom house out in Silicon Valley would cost, you know, in
• 1:17:48
  Palo Alto that area. And so, So yeah, cost of living
• 1:17:54
  is yeah, really, really solid in Tucson so that's it.
• 1:18:00
  I mean there's things that you know other people would would
• 1:18:03
  talk about like it's a it's a desert here.
• 1:18:06
  People like the desert landscape I think it looks like Mars so
• 1:18:09
  I'm not but Fair enough. Fair enough.
• 1:18:16
  Yes I'm not. Yeah I think I've just I like
• 1:18:20
  yeah, cooler climes as we draw, anything to a close for today.
• 1:18:26
  Do you have any sort of upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:18:29
  thoughts that you'd like to share with us?
• 1:18:35
  Yeah, let's see. Upcoming projects, you know, I
• 1:18:38
  like I said I've been writing again, I've actually been part
• 1:18:40
  of the subway, I found my way into the horse.
• 1:18:43
  Of Reddit and they have a screenplay challenge.
• 1:18:47
  Cool every quarter. And so I yeah, jump to that
• 1:18:50
  gotta but of course I'm not a huge horror fan so my screenplay
• 1:18:55
  is not coming into a whore type thing but but yeah that I think,
• 1:19:01
  you know, releasing that if anybody's interested it'll be
• 1:19:04
  on, I think screenplay challenge is the Reddit post and that'll
• 1:19:08
  be in March and yeah. And that I'm just, you know,
• 1:19:13
  like I said, I think just final thoughts is kind of reiterating
• 1:19:17
  what I've said before is just you know anybody's having
• 1:19:20
  trouble with kind of getting through this time right now it's
• 1:19:23
  again you know, kind of recontextualized it.
• 1:19:25
  And think about how you'd want to remember this.
• 1:19:27
  How you spent this time? Thank you very much.
• 1:19:31
  It's been a pleasure, having you on the show and pleasure talking
• 1:19:33
  to you. And yeah I wish you the very
• 1:19:36
  best of luck in the future. Yeah thank you so much for
• 1:19:39
  having me on this has been great and I just want to say a
• 1:19:42
  massive. Thank you.
• 1:19:43
  You to everyone listening to or watching the Christian Reeve
• 1:19:46
  podcast, as I always say, if you're watching on YouTube, make
• 1:19:50
  sure to, like, share and subscribe.
• 1:19:51
  As always. If your listing on Spotify,
• 1:19:54
  Apple podcast Google podcasts, leave us a review, leave some
• 1:19:58
  feedback, either some gratings. Let us know what you think of
• 1:20:01
  the podcast. And yeah if there's anyone in
• 1:20:04
  particular you'd like to see on the show in the future or any
• 1:20:06
  particular topics you'd like to hear on the on the actual
• 1:20:08
  podcast. Let me know and I would love to
• 1:20:12
  take that all on board. And make it happen.
• 1:20:14
  So, yeah. Thank you very much for watching
• 1:20:17
  for listening and until next time.
• 1:20:19
  Peace out. One love, I see you in the next
• 1:20:21
  one.