Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 190. HGSE Global Citizen: Larry Meadows Jr.: Being the Happiest Person You Know

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190. HGSE Global Citizen: Larry Meadows Jr.: Being the Happiest Person You Know · Be A Global Citizen!

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Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
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explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm a
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SOCO researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussions,
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stories, and insights on this podcast to being valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy the conversation. All right, Larry Meadows Junior.
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I am based out of the Washington, DC area.
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I recently completed my Doctor of Education Leadership degree
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from Harvard Graduate School of Education.
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I recently transitioned back to the Washington DC area from that
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program and I am I am intentionally resting and
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relaxing and now I'm on my journey towards finding, you
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know what my next chapter is So. Hi, Larry, thank you so much for
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making the time to to be on my podcast and I'm really happy to
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have you. We we were connected through
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through Harvard University. You were ATF in one of my
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classes early on in my program and had such an amazing
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experience, was really inspired by the work of not only a
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professor, but also the work of the incredible TFs because of
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the rich experience that you brought from your own
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educational backgrounds. And I think it's so amazing that
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you're taking this time for yourself to really kind of sit
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with a kind of what you've achieved up to this point
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processing, you know, recent accomplishments like graduating
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from the doctoral program. Congratulations again.
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And just, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm hopeful that this space
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offers some greater insight as far as what direction you're
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kind of headed towards. Because I think often times, you
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know, we, we find ourselves on that treadmill of life where
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we're just kind of constantly running and going at like full
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speed without really taking the proper time to, to look back on
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like what we've already like, you know, achieved in our past
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and like the influences that we've had.
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So I'm hoping that this offers up some of that space for you to
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kind of further engage in that reflection, but also benefit all
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of us and the listeners out there to be really inspired
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about what it means for like an educator like yourself to make a
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big impact around the the communities that you serve.
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So, you know, with that, I wanted to pass it over to you,
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Larry, to share a little bit more about some of some of those
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bigger influences in your own education journey.
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What were some of the milestones, inspirations?
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But this is really just an opportunity for you to kind of,
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you know, put some of the paint on the canvas to kind of show us
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really like, how did you get to where you are right now?
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OK, thank you first of all for inviting me on your podcast.
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Really excited about not just sharing my story, but hopefully
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being an inspiration for whoever might listen or watch this.
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It is quickly. I know you said TFA couple of
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times for those who don't know that teaching fellow so but my
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story begins in Washington. DCI was born and raised here.
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I was always a very energetic child.
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Math always came to me very easily.
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So I did really good in school and math.
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I got a bunch of bad grades and behavior behavior grades when I
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was growing up. So I, I eventually became an
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athlete. I played quarterback and wide
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receiver in high school. I got recruited into Indiana
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University of Pennsylvania because of my grades.
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They gave me an academic scholarship, which ended up
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being really significant because it was a division two school.
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I knew I wasn't going to the NFL.
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So after three years I was able to focus on my books.
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I had no debt when I came out. I got AI, had an accounting
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degree and then I stayed and got my, my MBA.
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So my career began in finance and accounting and once I
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graduated from there, I did like 15-17 years in finance and
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accounting. I, I did some project
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management, but I always did nonprofit work on the side.
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I did mentoring, tutoring, designing community programs,
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the work that I really looked forward to, and I did not look
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forward to going to my job every day.
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So I eventually figured out that I needed to transition into
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doing something that I was really passionate about, which
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was engaging with the community and helping families and helping
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adolescents. I like to specialize in grades
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6-7 and eight because there's multiple transition periods for
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students. So when I decided to switch from
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finance into education, it was actually my, my nonprofit work
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was kind of a, a, a leapfrog there.
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I went from finance to the nonprofit world and then into
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education. But most of the programs I
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design are for adolescents, grade 6-7 and eight.
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I focus on self actualization, positive identity development,
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and one other thing. One of the the big things that
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made me switch was I really wanted to focus on impact over
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income. And that probably hit me in my
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mid 30s. I'm 50 right now.
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So I've made that transition because of what I felt in terms
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of my fulfillment. So I went into my doctoral
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program after I switched into education because I had two
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business degrees and I knew that I needed something deeper in
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education if I really wanted to make the impact that I wanted to
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make. So I ended up at the Harvard
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Graduate School of Education. I really leaned into my family
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and community engagement experience that I had and I was
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able to contribute through that despite the fact that I had
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never been a teacher, I had never been an administrator.
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I, I knew how the community worked and that was my
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opportunity to get the get to know how the education system
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worked from the inside. So that's how I've ended up
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where I am and we'll see what my next steps are.
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But I'm really excited in terms of getting done with my program
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and I got my my rest. Well, I know we'll talk about
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that a little bit more than so. Yeah.
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Thank you so much, Larry. I appreciate you sharing all of
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that. And it definitely seems that
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you've had quite, quite an interesting life already,
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especially, yeah, especially with like these, these multiple
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career pivots, right? Because it wasn't just from 11
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like industry like like finance and accounting and just pivoting
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to just one other thing. Like it was, you know, multiple,
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right, from like nonprofit, the volunteer work that you're
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doing, then to find yourself in education and, and just also
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recognizing that there were so many different, like branching
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out points that you could have taken.
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So it definitely, I would imagine, took quite a bit of
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time and experimentation to really hone in on, OK, well, OK,
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now it's 6th, 7th and 8th graders.
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And then how can I really support them?
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And, and then drawing from your own experiences, kind of really
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like meet them kind of like, like an understanding where
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they're at to then like tell them like, OK, like this is how
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we can kind of like, you know, really address the, the
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fulfillment aspect, right? Of like what is maybe the deeper
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purpose of why you are studying and, and how are you feeling
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about your own sense of, of being right as a student?
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But then I would imagine there's many like many different layers
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that you can look into in terms of how you wanted to build out
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that positive identity so that they can be set up for not just
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the success in a very like kind of like career driven mentality,
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but success also in terms of like how they connect with other
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people, how they show up for others, how they maybe, you
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know, view just the fulfillment or the happiness side of things
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as well. But you know, I, I think, you
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know, going back to like the beginnings of your own
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schooling, I think is very insight.
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It'll, it'll provide some greater insights into like, you
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know, why the 6th, 7th and 8th graders?
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Because I know 6th, 7th, 8th grade, like there that can be a
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time of a great change. And it can also be, you know, a
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period where there's a lot of yeah, that energy that kind of
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is exuding from them, right? And you said yourself, right,
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you were very energetic child that knew what you liked, right,
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Math, you know, all all good. You were like kind of going full
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on with that. And then you had great grades to
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show for that. But then also not so great
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grades for the behavior side. Could you maybe like I don't
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maybe it maybe this is in the form of an anecdote, but could
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you maybe share a little bit more about like like who was
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Larry in like middle school, you know, and maybe kind of provide
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a little bit more, you know, texture as far as like what what
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was the student that you know, you you know, that that we were
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like that you were. So yeah, I'm just curious about
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that time. Well, you know, there's, there's
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the experiential side and then there's the research side.
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So experientially, when, when, when children are around that
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age, grades 6-7 and eight, there's, there's the transition
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in life. You're going through puberty,
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you're, you're going from a boy to a, a man or a girl to a
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woman. And then you have a transition
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from elementary school into middle school and then middle
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school into high school. So it's a, I'm at the top of the
10:16
food chain in elementary school, and then I'm at the bottom of
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the food chain and middle school.
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And then I'm at the top of the food chain in middle school and
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then the bottom of the food chain in high school.
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And this is all why they're going through puberty.
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And you're, you're trying to establish who you are because
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now, you know, you can smell yourself and you're like, I'm a,
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I'm a man now. You know, I'm, I'm growing, you
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know, hairs on my chest. And you know, you got to figure
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out who I am when, when I was going through that period, I, I
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met my mentor who is to this day my mentor.
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So I met him when I was like 12 or 13 years old, African
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American man, Doctor Calvin Avant, One of the best things
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that ever happened to me in my life.
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I was kind of unstructured at that time.
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I was having fun. I was playing sports and, and
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Doctor Avant really jumped into my life and said, you know, let
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me, let me show you how to like work and earn money and teach
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you the value of money. So we had a, a lawn service and
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we had like events we did where we helped elderly people and
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then we went on field trips and he got us out of the
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neighborhood. So I was I was doing my
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schoolwork, but then I was also engaging with a mentor who was
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showing me like kind of the roots of being a man.
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So there was my my balance of sports, There was my balance of
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fun and just trying to figure out what it was to be an
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adolescent going into being a teenager.
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And then there was the part of being a boy growing into a man.
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So when I was in that that stage, it was so much happening
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to me and a lot of the other students, you know, if, if you
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had a two parent household, that might have made a difference.
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But being a family and community engagement person, I also
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understand that positive adult engagement is really important,
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not just any adult engagement because some people can be
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pretty mean and nasty and traumatized.
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So I had a really good and positive person in my life.
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The school district that I went to, Montgomery County Public
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Schools in Maryland, it was a, it was a really diverse school
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district. So I moved from Washington, DC
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that was pretty much like 100% black in the 80s to Montgomery
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County, which was incredibly diverse.
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So I had like this exposure to diversity at that age.
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I had exposure to a positive male in my life.
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My father was around, but it wasn't always a positive
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interaction. And then I had like, the
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schooling where I was, I was discovering, OK, I'm really good
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at math. What am I going to do with this?
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So it was, it was a lot of balls in the air at the time.
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And yeah, it was, it was it was a good period for me.
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And I always look back at it in terms of now that I understand
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how research works and you know, that there are so many
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transitions in there. And you are, you know, figuring
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out your identity in your early teen years, I realized how
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important that was that I had all of that exposure in terms of
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diversity, a positive Black male in my life because I, I identify
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as a black male. So to have someone positive in
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my life who looked like me and could share his stories with me
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about what he did and what he learned from that so I wouldn't
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have to repeat those mistakes. So it was a, it was a really
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good period for me. And it really is the foundation
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of who I am today. Wow, you know, I'm so happy that
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you you had that mentor in in your life and that you are also
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able to really like have have many interactions and build that
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kind of like relationship that actually has continued on all
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the way up until this day. And I would imagine will
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continue for the rest of your life.
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Right, because of what lessons have been passed down to you and
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just how important, like encountering a mentor at a
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specific moment, Right. That depending on where you're,
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what you're experiencing in that moment, that gives you the
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reference point. But it also gives you the sense
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of like, yeah, being seen and this like hope of like, yeah,
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this is this is what I can work towards.
14:33
Yeah. I can get behind that.
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So you know this doctor, Kevin Avant, right.
14:39
Oh, Calvin. Calvin Avant, a big shout out to
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him. I'm curious, so how old were you
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exactly when you met with him? And like, what were the
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circumstances that led to this, this encounter with with him?
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So, so that's one of our, our funny stories that we go back
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and forth on. I was, I was 12, I think I was,
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it was the summer between 7th and 8th grade.
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And his version of the story is I was like on the roof of the
15:04
school somehow. I don't know, maybe I was in a
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Spider man phase or something. But he says you were on the roof
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and you were about to get in trouble.
15:12
And like I told y'all to come down.
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And then he, he got me involved in a lawn service that he was
15:19
running. And me and a bunch of my friends
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ended up doing it because he said, you know, this is make $40
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per lawn. And back then I was like, I'll
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do that. So, you know, we got the money.
15:29
And then he would say, here's what you should do with your
15:32
money. You should save someone, but you
15:33
should do this and that. So he used like authentic
15:36
experiences to as a, as a, as a learning ground force.
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So in that, that's a huge part of the reason why I really
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prefer to work with the, the grades 6-7 and eight, because of
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my interaction with Doctor Avant at that time and the foundation
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that it built for me in terms of I was starting out as a man, I
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had somebody to talk to. If I had any questions I could
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ask, I could share my stories now with younger people in the
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same way that he did with me. So that was that was really like
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one of those kind of those key moments in life where I can look
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back and say, had he not stepped into my life at that time, I
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could have very easily went in a different direction because the
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streets were just sitting there waiting for me to mess up.
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So yeah. Well, that that's amazing.
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Doctor event sounds like you know what what I'm imagining is
16:40
like when he saw you on the roof right there was this incredible.
16:45
Allegedly. OK, wait, so So what?
16:47
What is your side of the story then?
16:49
Where? Where are you?
16:49
I don't, I thought I was just like playing, you know, in the,
16:52
in the, in the schoolyard or something.
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Or, you know, I ran, I ran cross country back then.
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So I thought I was just kind of like running around the school
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or, you know, doing something that 12 year olds do over the
17:02
summertime, but I don't remember being on the rooftop so.
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The roof is a nice touch, you know, just makes for even more
17:09
epic encounter because you know, whether you on a roof, you were,
17:14
you know, running around. It's like the fact that he took
17:18
the time and had the consideration to call you out to
17:22
really see you. And in that, in doing so, see
17:25
your potential and say, hey, like, why don't we take some of
17:28
that energy and apply it towards something that I know will set
17:33
you up for, you know, this, this success that we were talking
17:36
about. And, and then the value of
17:39
money. I mean, like, I think that's
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something that, you know, like some schools, they, they try to
17:43
talk about it maybe, but it's never like, it's not never like
17:48
rooted in actual like real world, like earnings, right?
17:52
There's, there's not much at stake, right?
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When you have it just like on like a, you know, quiz sheet,
17:57
right, a homework assignment, but to say, hey, this is a
18:01
service, right, that we're offering to the community and
18:04
this is a win win. You're going to get your 40
18:07
bucks, which adjusted for inflation is I don't know how
18:10
much, but, you know, it's big money.
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It was good money, yeah, good money.
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And and and then the kind of like, you know, through that,
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like the guise of like, I'm going to, you know, like show
18:22
you this like lawn service and, you know, give you the insurance
18:25
and outs. It's like the simple fact that
18:27
you as a kid, like are just observing him beyond that,
18:32
right, in terms of like is, you know, like the hit the, the, the
18:36
things that we associate with like integrity, right?
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Is he true to his word? Does he show up on time?
18:41
Is he, you know, like how, how often does he come around all of
18:45
these things that I think as like kids, we like we yearn for
18:49
that attention and we're constantly, you know, following
18:52
up and wanting to see, you know, are they really, are they the
18:56
real deal? And it sounds like Doctor Avon
18:59
passed the tests in flying colors.
19:01
He was the real deal. And, and I think that, you know,
19:05
what you speak about the, the mentor, like the, the, the role
19:08
model, kind of like figure in our life, especially for like
19:13
males, like what masculinity means.
19:16
And then, you know, layering the social identities of like, well,
19:20
not just what does it mean to be a man, but what does it mean to
19:22
be a black man in Washington, DC, right?
19:26
In that particular community? Could you maybe speak a little
19:29
bit more about just, and this is kind of like more broadly, but
19:34
like, kind of like how you see yourself now that like when you
19:39
interact with these, these, you know, 6th, 7th, 8th graders,
19:42
right? Like how front of mind is that
19:46
whole like, you know, kind of like role model figure for you.
19:50
And, and yeah, how does it land knowing that like someone did
19:54
that for yourself and that now you're kind of in a way paying
19:58
it forward? Yeah.
19:59
So I think, I think one of the one of the things I want to like
20:02
really kind of bring to the forefront is that he, he taught
20:07
us how to teach without intentionally teaching.
20:11
So the, the experience was the lesson.
20:15
He never forced us to do anything.
20:18
It was always the option. You know, if you want to come
20:20
cut grass, you can do this. If you want to go on this field
20:23
trip, you get you can do this. What that did for me was it
20:27
really shaped the way I interact with young people today.
20:32
I never tried to tell young people what to do because I
20:36
think back then I was, I was so in my like my hormones, I was
20:42
just like, I can't tell me what to do.
20:44
Like I'm a, I'm a man now. You know, when you're in that,
20:47
those teenage years, you want to do that.
20:49
So it made me adjust my approach to how I, how I work with
20:53
adolescents, like boys and girls.
20:55
I have an inquiry approach. I asked them questions.
20:59
I don't tell them what to do. What do you want to do?
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I'll help you get there. If you want to talk to me, you
21:05
don't have to. But if you don't talk, I'm going
21:07
to keep talking. And you're going to be forced to
21:09
listen to all of my stories about my glory days.
21:12
And, you know, when I played football and my knee injuries
21:15
and everything, and they're like, OK, I'll talk fine.
21:19
So it, it helped me understand like the strategy of engaging
21:24
with young people. It taught me how to, if there
21:28
were any conflicts, don't address the young people in a
21:33
group, like pull them to the side and have a one-on-one
21:37
conversation with them. Because when you're around your
21:40
peers at that age, like peer like the, the reputation you
21:44
have and what your peers think is incredibly important at that
21:46
age. So embarrassing a kid is
21:49
probably something that you might not be able to come back
21:51
from. So that was it taught me how to
21:56
also like the intentional cross generational relationship built
22:02
when we cut lawns. It was generally elders in the
22:05
neighborhood. So he would always pull us to
22:07
the side and say look, you know this person is not capable of
22:10
doing this anymore. This is why we are doing this.
22:13
We are helping like this person has earned it.
22:15
They deserve for us to help them.
22:17
So you get that, you get the lessons on money, you get the
22:20
lessons on like manhood, you get the lessons on like what it
22:24
means to earn your money versus getting a what do they call it?
22:30
I never got it, but allowance, I don't know if kids still get
22:33
that nowadays, but I used to get an allowance of like, you know,
22:36
a couple of dollars a week. But I learned so much from that
22:40
experience and I designed that into a lot of what I do with
22:44
young people now. And I understand that there's
22:47
that transition of life. There's transitions between
22:51
school. You're trying to establish who
22:54
you are and figure out what you fit in your peer group.
22:56
So that experience that I had was it was incredibly valuable.
23:01
And I try to make sure I give that to any student that I work
23:04
with when I've done mentoring and tutoring in DC.
23:09
If, if there were any like what I call chronic disruptors, the
23:14
old school terms, knuckleheads, kids who get in trouble a lot,
23:18
they always gave those kids to me.
23:20
They would always be like, Mr. Meadows, can you like please
23:23
like work with this kid? He's not, he doesn't want to
23:26
talk to anybody. He doesn't want to listen and I
23:28
would literally just sit with the kid and I would start
23:31
telling them my story and I would be like, well, whatever
23:34
you need help with, I'll I'll help you.
23:37
Like if you want to talk, if you want help with your homework,
23:42
you know, to a certain point, you know, because I'm not a
23:44
therapist, but I'm a good listener, which is one of my
23:48
skills. I'm also a jokester so I can use
23:51
my sense of humor. So I learned and, and I learned
23:54
this from Doctor Avan also, who was a terrible dad joke guy to
24:00
use corny jokes to make people laugh.
24:02
And it kind of like knocks down some of the barriers.
24:05
So a lot of skills I learned in terms of teaching without
24:10
intentionally teaching, using your sense of humor, respecting
24:13
your elders because they can just kind of tell you a lot of
24:17
what they lived through and you don't have to figure out
24:19
everything on your own. So I try to incorporate all of
24:23
that into the programs that I design.
24:26
When I mentor and tutor and anything I do with family and
24:29
community engagement, I use those skill sets that I learned
24:33
from that period. And it sounds like, you know,
24:37
there's just so much that you're able to like pull from this,
24:41
this this one individual, right, this one mentor, doctor even.
24:45
And how that has been able to, you know, kind of blossom into
24:50
so many like new kind of like approaches and like insights
24:54
that you've been applying over many years in in your teaching
24:58
approach. And and I think it's just,
25:01
again, incredible that that you had that, that, you know,
25:06
opportunity to come across someone who is really, you know,
25:09
able to see you, right, to listen to you and to kind of
25:12
afford that kind of like, you know, mentorship.
25:15
Because, yeah, I think, you know, we don't really realize
25:19
how that period of development is just fraught with such
25:23
uncertainty, such a feeling maybe of like there's like fear,
25:28
right? Of like knowing where do you
25:30
fall in the social hierarchy? Maybe there's like family
25:33
dynamics of like, not maybe I don't.
25:36
Maybe there's like conflict in the home.
25:39
Maybe there's uncertainty about like how much you're even
25:42
getting like nutritionally as well, the quality of that, the
25:45
quantity of it, all of that. And and we just kind of again,
25:49
like operate from this. Maybe like it was a difficult
25:52
period and as adults now we block it out.
25:55
But when you really like stop to think about, wow, like it was so
25:58
consequential of like knowing that you had that one teacher
26:02
you could count on, right, or that that one neighbor who
26:06
really looked after you. And, and, and I really
26:10
appreciate the the cross generational relationships that
26:14
you were talking about because it's all rooted in respect.
26:18
And, and I think that, you know, we often times see in school
26:21
environments, if someone is out of line and they're being a
26:24
knucklehead, like you said, there's this disciplinary action
26:28
that is more authoritarian in nature than anything else.
26:32
And it's like fall in line. We know that didn't.
26:35
Work real quick. One of the, one of the things I
26:37
want to like point out it as a, as a, as a distinction is Doctor
26:43
Avent never, he never told us what to do.
26:48
He told us what the consequences were.
26:50
So he, he would allow us to grow into who we were, but he would
26:55
say, this is what I went through when I was younger.
26:58
I did this, you know, this is where I ended up.
27:01
I was drinking drugs, jail, you know, and this is what happens.
27:06
So if you do this, there is a path associated with that.
27:11
So if you want to go down that path, you can, but this is a
27:14
better path. So you make the call on what you
27:17
want to do. And, and, and I think that is
27:19
important in terms of a lot of young people who might feel lost
27:26
or feel like they need somebody or, you know, if, if they don't
27:29
have an adult who intentionally expresses like interest and
27:33
care, like to understand, like the self actualization part.
27:39
I know who I am. I know what my skills are and I
27:42
know how I can use them in today's society.
27:47
I think that is the greatest thing that I learned in terms of
27:51
I am who I am. I have choices to make and those
27:55
choices are going to determine like where I end up in the
27:59
future. And that is also society.
28:01
You know, I'm a black man in America, so there's a lot of
28:04
obstacles in my way. But when I see those obstacles,
28:08
I have an option of like taking a step back and going around it,
28:11
trying to run through it, you know, talking to one of my
28:13
friends, hey, help me out, can I do this?
28:15
But those choices were put in our heads as kids in terms of
28:20
you will constantly come up against things in life and the
28:24
decisions you make when you face those things will our large
28:27
determinant of where you end up as an adult.
28:30
So it wasn't a, you know, it wasn't it pulled yourself up by
28:34
the bootstraps thing. It was a just see what's in
28:36
front of you and make the decisions.
28:38
And if you can't figure it out, I'll I'll provide some some
28:42
elderly context to help you make better.
28:44
Decisions. So I, I love that.
28:48
Oh, that's just a clear indicator of a good mentor
28:52
because the whole point of, of this one life that you have is
28:56
that you got to live it and you got to make decisions and, and
28:59
chart that pathway forward. Often times because of how scary
29:04
the unknown might be as a young person or as anyone, right?
29:08
Whatever stage in life you are, we often want to have
29:12
assurances, right? This path will get me there.
29:15
And can you, but like, could you also help me in like making some
29:18
of those decisions? I know I've been guilty of this
29:21
going to different mentor figures and basically saying
29:24
this is my circumstances. This is what I'm going through.
29:28
Here's like two or three options.
29:30
Now tell me what's the best option.
29:32
But you can't do that, right? You got to just go forward.
29:36
But you know, the piece of like them sharing their own
29:39
experiences and saying this is what's true to me, right?
29:42
I think that's that's so important, right?
29:45
Because it gives you the sense that like, you know, like people
29:48
have walked, you know, these paths before.
29:52
It might not be, it's, it's not the same path, but it'll, it'll
29:55
give you that data, right? Where you can kind of cross
29:57
check that and be like, is that something that I see myself
30:01
going down? And, and you're taking full
30:03
responsibility for your life too, which also is another big
30:06
life lesson that I think is coming clear from, from your
30:09
interactions with, with Mr. Doctor even.
30:13
But you know, like the path that you chose for yourself going it,
30:17
you know, like to going to college to play football,
30:21
there's accounting degree. You followed that up with an
30:23
MBA. So there's like this big chunk
30:26
of your career in finance and accounting that you said I
30:31
didn't quite fulfill you. And I'm sure there was
30:34
definitely aspects to it that were really great that, that you
30:39
appreciated. But like, what was it about the
30:41
whole like lack of fulfillment side of it?
30:43
Like could you maybe like speak a little bit to like because I
30:46
it, it definitely probably offered some stability, but like
30:51
what ultimately led to that breaking point where you
30:53
realized like I need to make a more like definitive pivot into
30:58
a new sector. So could you speak to that?
31:01
Sure. So I, I am a, I am the happiest
31:05
person I know. I am, I am like so proud to say
31:08
that every day, it is my daily goal in life to be the happiest
31:11
person I know. So when I was doing finance and
31:14
accounting, it just, I didn't feel that happiness.
31:21
I, I know that, you know, we have to make smart and prudent
31:24
decisions. We live in a capitalist society.
31:27
So everything I learned in accounting and finance is
31:30
incredibly relevant in education and nonprofit because there's
31:34
budgets everywhere, there's funding everywhere.
31:38
But when I was doing accounting and finance, it was, I will go
31:40
in. I was sitting in front of a
31:42
computer. I wasn't really interacting with
31:44
human beings. I was really good at my job.
31:47
I was fast at it. I would figure things out, you
31:51
know, I, I see when I see numbers, I see stories and I see
31:55
like narratives. So it's, it's one of the, the
31:58
weird Rain Man type thing that I do.
32:01
But it was really helpful in the beginning of my career.
32:04
And it's really helpful in education because schools deal
32:10
with budget deficits. Nonprofits have to deal with the
32:13
funding issues that they're dealing with in 2025 under the,
32:18
the, the, the, the government that we have right now who's
32:21
holding payments and everything. So I think the, the, the real
32:26
turning point. My mother passed away in 2005
32:31
from lung cancer. And she had made such an
32:35
incredible impact on her community and the people around
32:38
her. She started a lot of programs at
32:41
her church. You know, she helped women who
32:44
were dealing with domestic abuse.
32:46
And when she passed away, like people at the funeral were like,
32:49
Oh my God, your mother helped me so much.
32:53
And I was like, are people going to say that about me and
32:57
finance? And I was just like, I don't
32:59
think this is where I'm going to make my impact.
33:02
So I really loved working with young people.
33:05
And I was like, I have to figure out how to make a transition
33:08
from earning income to making an impact.
33:12
So I slowly started like looking for nonprofit work.
33:15
I found a job with the Homewood Children's Village in Pittsburgh
33:19
in 2016. That's when I made my shift.
33:22
And I was a director in that organization, working directly
33:26
with the executive director. So he taught me a lot about
33:29
leadership and nonprofit. And I was able to apply a lot of
33:33
my finance and accounting. And I designed community
33:36
programs, which I had been doing with the National Urban League
33:39
for years up to this point. So now I was using all of my
33:43
community skills. I was able to use my, my sense
33:47
of humor to, to recruit volunteers and run programs.
33:52
I was able to use my creativity in terms of when I did design a
33:56
program, it could, it could apply to adolescents, it could
34:00
apply to adults, and it could apply to apply to elders.
34:03
I think we call it like universal design or something
34:05
now, but it was, it was this, this shift of I was, I was doing
34:11
accounting and finance and making money, but I didn't look
34:13
forward to going to work. I would always look forward to
34:16
my, my work with the National Urban League in the community.
34:19
And then my job became program design and community engagement.
34:25
And then I transitioned from that nonprofit into Pittsburgh
34:29
Public Schools, which was where I made the shift from finance
34:33
into nonprofit into education. So that's when I really got into
34:38
education. And again, I was able to use my
34:42
finance and accounting skills. I did some project management up
34:45
to that point. So I was able to transfer all of
34:48
those skills into education and really try to help Pittsburgh
34:52
Public Schools move forward, explain information to parents
34:56
and community members because I had this finance background.
35:01
So if anybody out there is like in a career and they're like,
35:05
I'm not sure that this is it. Learn about the relationship
35:09
building. Ask yourself which, which of the
35:11
skills that I'm using right now can I transfer into something
35:15
else if I want to do that? So I, I am a scaffolding person.
35:20
Whatever I do, I'm like, I'm going to learn something and I
35:22
can build on top of it. Might not be able to use it now,
35:25
but I'll be able to use it somewhere down the line.
35:27
So it was, it was a great experience doing finance and
35:31
accounting. But like my, my space, I have a,
35:34
a healer spirit is what I tell people I love to, I love to make
35:37
people laugh and I love to help people.
35:40
So I can do that in education. And this is my.
35:43
This is my path forward now. Indeed it is.
35:47
And you know, nothing is nothing's wasted.
35:50
I think in, in what you, you were sharing about that, that
35:54
first career in finance and accounting, because those skills
35:58
that you honed over over many, many a year were then able to
36:02
like create such profound impact in the, in this new kind of like
36:08
endeavor of like really going into communities, going into
36:11
schools. And, and I think, you know, I
36:15
think you mentioned this too, that, you know, every school,
36:19
every nonprofit has a budget, right?
36:21
And often times what we hear is that, oh, there's not enough
36:25
money, right? There's lack of funding or maybe
36:28
there's mismanagement like any organization.
36:31
But when it comes to ensuring that like these students have,
36:36
you know, like the right programs, right, you need to
36:39
keep them and you want to offer more, right?
36:41
Because again, this is like, this is the future that we're
36:43
talking about, right? Future generations, how much
36:46
more important it is to get that, you know, get the the
36:49
numbers right. And I, I feel like the, you
36:54
know, the whole like numbers have a story kind of element
36:56
that you talked about being able to have that eye to see that and
37:00
then articulate that to other people right to get them
37:03
interested as well to bring them into that.
37:07
I I think is, is so valuable and, and I felt that way as
37:10
well, even just having like, you know, my own experience, like in
37:13
some of the like one of the classes that we took for, for
37:17
the, the, the Harvard program, like that was very relevatory
37:20
for me learning about finance and nonprofits with, with Jim
37:24
Honan, because you know, it's, it's something that we think the
37:28
teaching side of like schools is everything.
37:31
And it's, it's, it's a major part, but you know, it's, it's
37:34
not without like, it's not like this.
37:36
The teaching is not happening in a vacuum, right?
37:38
There is a structure and structure within a structure
37:41
within a structure. So, you know, this the spirit of
37:44
like bringing those skills into a new community to ultimately
37:49
Dr. Impact because that's what you knew knew in your bones was
37:53
going to lead to this deeper sense of fulfillment and
37:56
happiness. I did want to kind of, you know,
37:59
ask you a little bit more about your mother because, you know,
38:03
she sounds like an incredible woman and and she made such
38:06
incredible impact in her community.
38:08
And could you maybe just maybe speak a little bit more about
38:12
like her influence on you growing up and also maybe start
38:17
kind of like bridging in this like concept of global
38:20
citizenship about the, you know, local impact within her
38:23
community, but also maybe considering the wider ripple
38:27
effects of your mother's legacy right in in your community can
38:31
maybe speak to that a little bit more.
38:34
Sure. Minister Minister Shirley Dean
38:38
Jones Meadows Holmes She was married twice to my father,
38:41
Larry Meadows and her second husband was George Holmes.
38:45
She was 5 foot 2 of of just fury and protectiveness towards our
38:53
family. I learned some of my
38:57
fearlessness from my mother. She like when it came to helping
39:02
people, there was no there was no limit, there was no boundary.
39:06
So she passed away in 2005 from lung cancer.
39:12
But she was 53 and I tell people all the time she lived an
39:16
incredible 53 years. So what I got from her was
39:21
really like this, this passion and drive to help other people.
39:27
Doctor Avant is a pastor also. So I had my mother who was like
39:32
really use her life experiences to help other people and in, in
39:37
her churches that she attended. And then I had my, my mentor who
39:42
was also in a church and he used his life experiences to help
39:46
other people. So I had these two adults.
39:49
My dad was in there. I learned different lessons from
39:52
my dad. Like I learned like kind of what
39:53
not to do from my dad, but that was, you know, growing up as a
39:57
black man in the 50s and the 60s, you know, some of the
40:00
choices you had access to were not always positive.
40:04
But between those three, I learned some really valuable
40:08
things in terms of and, and turning this into the, the
40:12
global citizen part. I believe that there are good
40:18
people and there are people who are into like power and
40:24
oppression. And good people are across
40:28
races, they're across nationalities, they're across
40:32
age groups. So wherever I go with my my
40:37
healer spirit and me being the happiest person I know, I look
40:41
for my tribe no matter where I go.
40:43
People who are laughing out loud in public, people who are
40:47
intentionally going out of their way to help other people That
40:51
doesn't, I could care less what your race or your age is.
40:55
If you are fun and you are about helping people, you are a family
40:59
member. And I think that is a global
41:02
thing. I looked up the word citizenship
41:06
for this and it's, you know, the United States and the world we
41:09
live in. It's, it's a, it's a getting in
41:11
a very, on a very philosophical level.
41:14
We are we are a society that lives by words on paper.
41:20
So we write a word on paper and then we said, we're going to
41:23
call this the law. I'm going to write some words on
41:25
the paper and I'm going to call this an executive order.
41:29
I'm going to write some words on the paper.
41:31
And this area of land is called the United States.
41:34
This area is called Brazil. This area is called Chicago.
41:38
Like it's it's land. And we're human beings living
41:42
here. But everything we do is
41:44
determined by what the words on paper say.
41:47
So when we look at the the globe, I think there's like 205
41:52
countries around the world, hundreds or thousands of
41:57
religion, thousands of languages that we talk, thousands of
42:02
cultures and like over 8 billion people.
42:06
So like to be a, a global citizen, like we are all
42:11
citizens of this globe, but depending on which piece of land
42:14
you live on, you're going to say, you know, USAUSAUSA, you're
42:19
going to be like, you know, go Japan, go Brazil.
42:23
But, but we're all human beings. We got the same biological
42:27
makeup. We got the same blood running
42:30
through our veins. We all love our, you know,
42:32
hopefully we, we love our parents and our family members
42:35
and our friends and we laugh a lot.
42:38
So I look at global citizenship from that level.
42:42
But I think the first time I, I heard that terminology was
42:47
college. I got my MBA.
42:50
So we talked about multinational organizations and how like
42:58
corporations had really no boundaries to them.
43:01
They could do anything. So what does that mean for
43:05
corporations? What does it mean for human
43:07
beings based on what you want to do in life?
43:10
I want to help people. What does that mean for me and
43:13
and my tribe of other people who want to help?
43:16
What does that mean when I go to the Harvard Graduate School of
43:19
Education and I meet people from literally all over the globe who
43:23
want to help people. Same destination, but like GPS,
43:27
you have a different route. So my route is through maybe the
43:31
black community helping black boys and girls, you know,
43:35
someone from China. Harvard has a large population
43:39
of Chinese students. Maybe they want to go back to
43:42
their country. Maybe they want to stay here.
43:45
There's different routes for everybody.
43:47
So I think a part of being a global citizen is like
43:50
understanding what I said before, who you are, what your
43:54
skill sets are, how you can apply them in this generation
43:59
and what, what is the change you want to make?
44:02
So I think being a global citizen is, is like kind of
44:05
it's, it's region specific, but it's also you got to find your
44:10
tribe who can help you do what you want to do because like
44:13
what's happening in our, in our, in the United States right now
44:15
is impacting the world. So I think like global
44:20
citizenship is it's, it's never been more important than today
44:23
because like we are like, I, I see what's happening as a
44:28
threat. The, the, the privileges and the
44:32
rights and the laws that have been established to run this
44:36
company, this country are being threatened right now.
44:40
So I think it is going to take a a global effort to do something
44:45
about this and make sure that we don't go back into a place where
44:48
there's a very small group at the top who was oppressing
44:52
everyone at the bottom. Wow.
44:56
Thank you. Thank you so much.
44:57
Larry. There was a lot that you shared
44:59
with that, but but it had to be said.
45:02
It had to be said. You know, I, I really, there's
45:05
there's this one phrase that that's really stuck out to me
45:09
and and I, I might have gotten a little bit, I'm gonna, I might
45:12
have gotten it like a little bit wrong.
45:13
But you said something like if you were happy and want to help
45:16
people. Yeah.
45:18
Then you are family. Yeah.
45:20
And, and that just really resonated.
45:21
I was like, oh, Dang, you know, like that's that's true for me.
45:25
But like, I think often times we, we, we, we have these kind
45:30
of like barriers, right? Or like, yeah, the barriers
45:33
within our hearts, that kind of feel, you know, we feel
45:36
differently about what family means, right?
45:38
Because maybe you don't personally have a good
45:40
relationship with your family. But then there's the
45:42
vulnerability side of it of like not wanting to get, you know,
45:45
have people come too close to really get to know you.
45:49
But I think in the times that we're, we're living in, like,
45:52
you know, we need to really kind of, you know, rally together and
45:56
like be more forthcoming and like kind of open to like, Hey,
46:00
this is, you know, this is my intent.
46:02
This is what I'm striving towards.
46:04
And finding, finding like minded individuals who also want to do
46:09
good in the world. I think is, is so important.
46:11
And also a large part of like why I'm even doing this podcast,
46:14
if I'm being honest. And I, I feel the, the, the
46:19
pressures, right? And then the, the, the kind of
46:22
like pessimism and the, the negativity that is just really
46:27
has always really seeped, you know, the, these lands, right?
46:30
You know, the, the kind of people here in the US, like
46:33
there's, there's so much of like kind of different tensions
46:37
between like opportunity and promise, but then also abuses of
46:41
power and oppression. But there's, but there's
46:43
undeniable like, you know, like this, this unique energy that is
46:48
produced when you bring such different, you know, peoples
46:51
from different ethnicities and backgrounds and international,
46:54
you know, different cultures to really create something that
46:58
hasn't existed before, right? Especially with the new
47:02
technologies that are bringing us to even closer together
47:05
global trade, right multinational corporations that
47:07
you mentioned about this sense that, hey, we are all
47:11
interconnected in more ways than than one.
47:16
But I think with that heightened understanding and awareness
47:19
comes a heightened feeling of responsibility, right, of like
47:23
what, what your actions are are really going to have that ripple
47:26
effect. But you know, again, going back
47:30
to something that you shared multiple times before and you
47:34
know, I want to make this like a tagline.
47:36
You know, every time I hear this, I'll think of you being
47:39
that, that, that you are the happiest person that you know,
47:42
right? I love, I love that it's so
47:44
simple. And, and I and again, it, it
47:47
also kind of emphasizes the fact that it's starting with you,
47:50
right? You're not, you're not looking
47:51
at another person. You're not putting that
47:53
responsibility on someone else to like take, take care of it.
47:56
But hey, you are the initial kind of like you're, you're the
48:00
initiator of it. And and then that happiness
48:04
piece I think is so, so crucial because, yeah, actually maybe if
48:08
I can ask you this question, like when when you say
48:10
happiness, what really do you mean by that?
48:15
You know, like in terms of like kind of what that experience is
48:18
like or what you are aspiring as like a, a happy person?
48:22
Like, could you maybe unpack that really quick?
48:24
Sure. So I, I'm a, I'm a energy
48:27
person. So I always, always speak in
48:29
terms of like positive energy. You know, I'll tell my friends
48:33
like, hey, your energy is off today.
48:35
So I believe that every individual we are, we are born
48:40
with the light and that light kind of like shines out of your
48:43
chest like like Iron Man. He had the, the thing in his
48:46
chest. You know, I walk around, I
48:48
literally think that there's energy like beaming out of me.
48:52
And I think that that will attract other people who are of
48:57
positive energy and happy people.
49:00
Now I get on people's nerves too.
49:02
Some people are like, I am so tired of you being a
49:04
cheerleader. Like just get away from me for a
49:06
second. So I have to gauge my happiness
49:10
sometimes. But I think it comes from within
49:14
my personal happiness is it is an accumulation of everything
49:19
that I've been through to this point.
49:22
You know, both of my parents passed away from cancer.
49:25
I took care of both of them, but I got 30 years with my mother
49:28
and I got 40 years with my father.
49:30
Context is my mother's mom, my, my maternal grandmother died
49:36
when my mother was 10. So in context, when a lot of
49:39
people say your mother was only 53 and you only got 30 years, I
49:43
say my mother only got 10 with her mother.
49:47
So and, and, and the 30 years I got were very positive.
49:51
Even with my father, you know, he had some alcohol issues.
49:56
He grew up in a time where there just weren't a lot of
50:00
opportunities. So he got into criminal activity
50:02
early on when he was basically a teenager and that shaped his
50:06
life. I learned a lot from him right
50:09
before he passed away. So understanding that I was born
50:14
in 1974, I didn't have to go through the things that my
50:18
parents went through. I'm living in a country where I
50:21
don't have to, you know, as of right now, we, we're not worried
50:25
about like bombs falling on us or war in the streets.
50:31
If things keep going away, they are, who knows?
50:33
But right now that is a privilege of being an American.
50:37
So I recognize my blessings and I count them daily.
50:43
I have issues, but I also realize that as a global
50:47
citizen, where I stand in terms of when I wake up, I have a roof
50:52
over my head. I have a hot shower.
50:54
I have I have grocery stores in my neighborhood, which is not
50:57
something that happens for all people in the United States.
51:01
But I, I count my blessings over my problems every day because I
51:07
being a community engagement person running community
51:12
programs, I interact directly with people who don't have the
51:16
privileges that I had. They don't always have a roof
51:18
over their heads. Some people are staying in
51:20
shelters, you know, and even even having a shelter to stay in
51:23
is a blessing because sometimes they run out of space and people
51:26
don't have, you know, they're sleeping outside under the
51:29
stars. So I count my blessings every
51:33
day. I've had like some, some amazing
51:37
people in my life. And you know, this is not just
51:39
my mother and my mentor, but like family members, teachers
51:43
who invested in me. And being in education, I
51:46
understand how important that is because not all teachers will
51:50
intentionally invest in a student.
51:52
Sometimes you see a student messing up and they'll just say
51:54
he ain't going to end up nowhere.
51:57
And then you have a teacher that'll come over to you and be
51:59
like, hey, get your stuff together.
52:02
So the blessings that I've had in life, I mean, it's to be
52:06
where I'm at at 50 years old. Like I couldn't, I couldn't be
52:09
happy. I just graduated from Harvard.
52:11
I came from the projects in DC, like it.
52:15
It amazes me. And I did this for my mother.
52:17
Like I did this. I got this doctoral degree for
52:20
my mother, so I'm very proud of it.
52:25
Wow. No, that's, it's emotional.
52:27
It is and there's it, there's such layered meaning and
52:31
everything that you just shared. And I and I appreciate you, you
52:34
sharing that, that last statement about doing the
52:38
doctorate for your mother. I'm sure undoubtedly she would
52:42
just be, you know, be so proud of, of you and so happy to see
52:46
your achievements. And also just know that you're
52:48
just, you're the happiest person.
52:49
You know, you're articulate. Yeah, that you're, that, you
52:53
know, the way you articulate it. I, I, I'm like 100% behind you
52:57
on, on, on. You know, how you described
52:59
happiness and what it means for you because it is not, you know,
53:03
selective of just this or that experience.
53:06
You're saying it's, it's everything.
53:07
It's, it's the good, the bad and the ugly.
53:10
And, and you're also saying that, you know, because of that,
53:13
it's shaped who you are right now and that you, you, you love
53:17
who you are in this moment, right?
53:19
And that's a decision you have to make every single day.
53:22
And then the appreciation that comes from like, you know, like
53:25
just counting your blessings and, you know, being connected
53:29
to the people around you and extending them grace as they're
53:32
doing it, you know, back to you knowing your privilege as well.
53:37
All of that, I think is just so helpful in kind of unpacking
53:41
this, this word that often times we throw around, you know, like,
53:44
you know, I, I, I, I got, I got a, a gift or I, I ate this food
53:49
and I'm happy, right. But that in, in a sense, yes,
53:52
yeah, that is true. But that's also just kind of
53:55
scratching the surface. So I'm glad that you really kind
53:57
of gave us a little bit more to like really work with in terms
54:01
of like understanding that. So, you know, there's, there's
54:04
so much I still want to ask you, but we are unfortunately coming
54:08
to the to the tail end of this conversation.
54:10
That's just been really amazing and and really insightful.
54:13
I do have one last question that I I always extend to all of my
54:17
my guests and that is a book recommendation or movie
54:20
recommendation or anything else you'd like to share with our
54:22
listeners. So I think relevant to our times
54:26
today, I, I, I'm a Audible person.
54:29
I, I listen to books while I'm driving.
54:31
I drive a lot. I just listened to a book called
54:35
The Extinction of Experience. I can't remember who the author
54:40
is, but she talks about how the, the, the, we're, we're
54:46
interacting in person less and how that's impacting our
54:51
society. We're writing less and you know,
54:56
we're spending more time on, you know, ChatGPT now asking the
55:01
computer questions versus thinking for ourselves.
55:05
And she she posits how this is going to impact society.
55:08
She presents some research on how it's impacting us right now.
55:12
And it's relevant for me because I deal with people like I'm an
55:16
in person. Yeah, I, I have to explain to
55:20
community members what a budget deficit means, not just how it
55:24
affects a school district at a high level, but how it affects
55:27
their school and the teachers that they love and how it
55:30
impacts, you know, how many bus drivers we're going to have or
55:35
if we can fix the AC. So having having the ability to
55:40
talk to people in person and take complex information and
55:44
like put it in an understandable format, that's an experience
55:48
thing. You have to see people's face
55:51
when they get confused and then say, oh, well, let me let me
55:55
explain it another way. Let me use an analogy.
55:58
So this book really talked about that great book.
56:02
And I think cast by Isabel Wilkerson was one of my one of
56:06
my favorite books of all time. So.
56:12
Thank you so much for those two amazing book recommendations.
56:15
I have read cast before and it is an incredible book.
56:18
So definitely I can recommend that alongside you.
56:22
I'm very interested to look into the the other one that you you
56:25
mentioned. So thank you so much for those
56:28
awesome recommendations. And then also just this awesome
56:31
conversation. It's, it's truly, you know, it's
56:33
such an honor having incredible like passionate guests like
56:36
yourself to, to speak about like, you know, just what, what
56:39
got you to this point because there's so much and with, you
56:44
know, without further, I, I just wanted to kind of give you the
56:46
last couple couple words. Any final thoughts or send offs
56:49
as we wrap up this conversation? Just first of all, thank you for
56:52
inviting me. Thank you for allowing me to
56:55
share my story. It's never about me.
56:59
Like I'm, I'm good, I'm having fun.
57:02
I could, I'm I'm about to go for a walk after this and just kind
57:05
of enjoy the sun. But I hope that other people who
57:10
are figuring out their careers or figuring out life right now,
57:15
it's not a straight line. Sometimes it's just a zigzag.
57:18
Sometimes you got to take a break.
57:21
Sometimes you'll have to take a step backwards, but enjoy the
57:24
journey, take the lessons from everything that you do and laugh
57:28
as much as possible.