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The Occult Rejects with David Rankine · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see somethings going to happen?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What what's going to happen? I'll take one?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: What help?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode, I got a
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: very very special guest, probably more of a guest for
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: me than the listeners. Really, somebody's that was very influential
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: in me when I started my I guess my practice
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: and getting into a cultism. But before we introduced David,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: we'll introduce the rest of the Rejects. Marx. How are you, sir?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm doing well. Thanks, Yeah, I'm I've been into
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: the occult for years, started reading into it when I
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: was you know, around probably fourteen or fifteen. But I
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: do artwork for bands, festivals, different stuff. If you want
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: to check out any of my stuff, my podcast or work,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: you could check out link tree at.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: R M A r X.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: And thanks for having me on, Nick.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Of course, thank you very much, Robbie, appreciate you making
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the time and for maybe new listeners if they have
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: not heard of Robbie Marks before, please go check out
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: some of the oldest shows. It's story time with Robbie.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Lots of information and you know, I'm very happy to
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: have him on the show. You'res eros, We'll try one
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: more time. You good to go. No, it's still not working. Damn.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I am sorry. All right, Jin, sir, how are you?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: I'm really nervous.
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Nick for inviting me on this
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: incredible discussion with David, and I'm a huge fan and
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: I am trying not to fan boy. Matt knows I
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: was nervous because I texted him before we recorded, as.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Well as you Nick, So thank you so much. David.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: I've never been had a spirit based practice particularly, I
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: really started out as most younger millennial boys you in
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: more of a chaos magic sort of like framework, and
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: now I'm a Tondric Buddhist. So that's how I'm very
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: familiar with Mike McGee and.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: The a on of.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: Mott Workings and frederichad and stuff that we work on
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: in the Gray Lodge, as well as my show Threshold Saints.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: So if people are interested in what I do, and
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: I also of course Matt Murra because he is my
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: brother in the Gray Lodge. But if you're interested in
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: check me out on Threshold Saints and IG and twitter
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: x at Threshold Saints or my personal account at Wukong
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: Reborn and also the our Gray Lodge website which obviously
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: mattmur is our webmaster, so the True Gray Lodge dot
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: com t r ve gray Lodge dot com and we
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: do speculative Cabbala, speculative to calichakra, and speculative narcissism every
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: Friday night live recorded for YouTube.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: So thank you guys so much, appreciate.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: It, Thank you for making it, sir. Yeah, for real,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: everybody go check out that spaces if you have that
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: very very good stuff.
• 2:58
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And next we'll Headless Giant. What is going on, sir?
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: How you doing?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Nick?
• 3:05
  Speaker 6: You can find me at the Headless Giant Podcast at
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: gmail dot com. If you have any sort of esoteric stories,
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: me and Nick will read them out to you on
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: Thursday along with our symbolic studies as well on Thursday,
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: so check that out. And also I've got a show
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: called Alchemy Mondays with Aros talking about alchemy doing alchemical experiments.
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: And I've also got the Trialogus coming up tomorrow with
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: Ethan Indigo and Ricardo, so check those out.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: You can yeah find me on Instagram.
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: Twitter and YouTube. We did a great show on the
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: Delphic Oracles last night. Check that one out as well.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that one was a lot of fun actually, And
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Matt Moore, what is going on, sir?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Hey?
• 3:51
  Speaker 7: You happy to be here, thanks again for calling me.
• 3:54
  Speaker 7: Glad and very appreciate that I could meet to David
• 3:58
  Speaker 7: Irol and that was three fun the Soul Society event.
• 4:02
  Speaker 7: So Mett moura as Jin Motor saying we have spaces
• 4:05
  Speaker 7: yesterday spaces was pretty nice. We always then repost them
• 4:08
  Speaker 7: on YouTube on Wednesdays. And there's also my website that's
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: Kabala dot com k A A b a l ah
• 4:15
  Speaker 7: dot com. A lot of cool stuff coming up there
• 4:18
  Speaker 7: is also make sure to follow me on my socials.
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: The handles right here at Madmore nineteen. So pretty excited
• 4:24
  Speaker 7: for today.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: All right, thank you very much, man, I appreciate you
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: coming on. And last, if we can get her to
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: work erros, let's see if it works.
• 4:31
  Speaker 8: Now, can you hear me?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Now? Cool?
• 4:35
  Speaker 8: Great, It's awesome to meet you, David, thanks for coming,
• 4:40
  Speaker 8: Thanks for inviting me.
• 4:41
  Speaker 7: Nick.
• 4:42
  Speaker 8: You can find me on YouTube at arrows Up and
• 4:45
  Speaker 8: you can find me on Twitter at rost et Thos.
• 4:48
  Speaker 8: I'm a functional and archetypal astrologer and I post a
• 4:54
  Speaker 8: lot about metaphysics as well.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Definitely go check out her stuff. She has done some
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: great work on the indiads as well, And if you
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: haven't seen this stuff that she's done on the show,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: please go back and check it out. For me, this
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: is a very special guest. His elemental and planetary books
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: for staples for me and a constant reference from what
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't memorize already in his books. For people who
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: have been listening to the show for a while for
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the last few years, you probably have heard me mention
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: him plenty of times whenever I've referred to planetary or
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: elemental stuff. I've even like pulled up some of his
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: pages to show like the associations, to show where I
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: got it from. This is the man. So for me,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: it's amazing to actually have this guy on the show.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I never would have thought, I guess maybe ten fifteen
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: years ago when I was getting into this, i'd actually
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: be talking to the man that wrote the book. So David,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on. This is like
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: mind blowing for me. Please, whatever I didn't mention that,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: maybe you want to plug, please let everybody know what
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: your deal is.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Well for quite some time. I
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: suppose my stuff's been very much focused on with Gridmars,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: So he's just you mentioned the Grandma's Cyclopedia, which took
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: me three years of daily writing and research to put together.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And doing that and getting the panoramic perspective that it
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: gave kind of shaped what's come since, and I wanted
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to more patful manual stuff up just Clovers and Telgentiaram
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and the new one the follow on to that, which
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: has just come out of clave As Spiritum, which is
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: keeping true to the fidelity of the Greenmart tradition but
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: evolving it into the twenty first century and restoring bits
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: that I've got lost or leaving our bits that don't
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: necessarily need to be there, and trying to make it
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a lot more accessible for people. And that's kind of
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: been where my focus has been in recent years.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Very nice, I guess, I mean, I know you kind
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: of like I'm just now kind of specified a little bit,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: but I mean that I wanted to go on the
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: planetary and elemental magic. But maybe this is just a
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: question we kind of be for the newer ones and
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: those books. What was it that you're bringing to the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: table that do you think actually makes it makes your
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: stuff different than what's out there.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Well, it was one thing it's not different from everyone,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: but for some is that I write about the stuff
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that I have practiced, and that I get other people
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: to test and practice as well. Because you know, when
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I was younger and I saw some books going out
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: that I spoke to the authors of, and they hadn't
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: even done some of the practices they were writing about.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Quite horrified me. This is decades ago. Now, I would
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: stress I'm not making that claim towards any modern authors,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: but at the time, I thought, if I write, I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: want to make sure I'm writing about things that I've done,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I would hope. So I think that, Well, the feedback
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I get from people is they like my stuff because
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: it's very accessible and down to earth. But I mean
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it's well, I'm very academic in the point of view
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of well not academia, but I heavily put note and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: reference my stuff so people can see where the materials
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: coming from, they can track things back. But I like
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: to also put things in as simpler form as possible,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: because I have this little philosophy that magic isn't complex,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: it's layers for simplicity, the build upon each other. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: you know, when as soon as you start trying to
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: box stuff and tell people that things are complex, so
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: when you start putting barriers in front of people, and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: so if you view it as layers of simplicity the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: build on each other, it's a much more practical way
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: to approach. And that's kind of reflected in my writings
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that it's that's you know, as you read through, it's
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: like you can see, oh, this builds on this, this
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: builds on this. So what I get told by Pep
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: is they like that they don't feel that I'm talking
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: down to them, but they feel like they was having
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a conversation with me in the books because it's just
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: in a nice, simple style. You know, I'm not trying
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to use lots of big words to impress, and anything
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that I think might be clarifying, there'll usually be a
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: footnote or anywhere I'm referring to text as usually a footnote,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: so that people, like I say, can see where the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: thought process was followed themselves as decide if they agree
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: or disagree with the conclusions. You know, I don't claim
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that my stuff is the only way or the best way.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It's like the way that has worked for me, and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: if other people feedback to me set it works them
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: as well, then that's fantastic because the reason for me
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: putting the stuff out there is to offer people stuff
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that I have found, you know, test it and works,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: and that hopefully will work for them as well. A
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: really good example is, you know the stuff I've been
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: doing recently with the winds, which is in Clave Spiritum
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: for spirit conduration. When I got prompted by my spirits
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to look into the winds and then I'm usually went
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: started looking at texts and went to Swarm book for
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Norrisks in their contacted Stephen Skinner except he was doing
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the work on the first book of sum Sycomatic at
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the time and said, Stephen, can you send me all
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: this stuff on the winds? And he sent that over
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and found the conjuration in there. I did it as
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: part of a conjuration of one of the planet for intelligences,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and it was there like that, you know. I was like, well, okay,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: that worked really well. I had a lot of questions
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: based on what I was doing in my practice time,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and I asked about the winds and the intelligence. It
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was Joffield, the Jupiterian intelligence. He was like, yeah, it's great,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: used this, but just add this one line in here.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: So I did a line in. I then started contacting
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: magicians I knew who do conjuration work, saying he did
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: in conjuration in the next few months and if they
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: were going fancy in this winds conduration for me and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: trying it and lots of people. So a couple of
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: dozen people then did the practice and they added it
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: in and it was you know, people working with all
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: different grimoires with like the Oscar sugar or environmentally of Solomon,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: lots of different ones with demons, angels, Olympic spirits, clanty intelligences.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Every single person said the spirit was there by the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: end of first conjuration at the latest. And then I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was getting I get this was after Club as Intelligent
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Entoirement had come out, So getting a lot of people
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: messing me about that, and people saying, I'm going to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: do my first conjuration and I'm really nervous, and have
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you got any advice? Okay, well why didn't you put
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: this wind conjuration in as well? And the people who
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: had never done a conjuration before who added the wind
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: conjuration and was successful and it was there by the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: end of first conjuration. Again, so I extended my data sets.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I wasn't just experienced musicians, but people doing first conjurations,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: and so far every single person we're up at least
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: thirty conjuration sell has had the spirit there by the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: end of first conduration. So that thing which was there
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the Grimwa tradition and then disappeared,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I have restored, and I think it's like a key
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: component to bring back in because the winds are kind
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of like the uber for the spirits. You're sending a
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: new before it and it gets the really fast, so
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you don't spend hours having to repeat conjurations. So it's
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: a bit of a game changer. So I've written all
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: about that in Plava Spiritum. I kind of dropped the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: hint on it with the blog I did on it
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: some months earlier about the return of the winds. That's
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: been like a really big thing for me in recent times,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: has been like propagating up there, the use of the winds.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I think I had a bit tangential for there, didn't.
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: I Actually you hit on my question, Sorry about that,
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: Nick David. So this is something that I noted in
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: your interview with Haitian Press on the podcast, is your
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: restoration of the elementals to sort of the Grimar tradition
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: as you were saying it became lost. It's very interesting
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: because in Rodriana we do have this idea of the
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: wind horse and then also the four cardinal wind protectors
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: who are invoked in every major pooja or every major
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: fire offering. So I would say it's an essential part
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: and it's probably a sort of parallel stream of thinking
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: in my view.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: So you answered my question. Is what I'm saying.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: I was going to ask you about the elemental like
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: restoration or rectification back into the tradition, but you kind
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: of addressed it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: So thank you so much, good pleasure.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And I thought, I assumed there would be parallels, and
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: so I did check in with other people on that. So,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: for example, I spoke to my wife's godfather in Pala
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Mayombe and he confirmed about the use of the winds
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: being in the spirits in Palo and the directionality to it,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: like there is with the winds being the spirit in
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the appropriate direction and also with my tata in Combanda,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and also that the winds are use in commander as well.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting that it's something that's spread around in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: different traditions, you know, around the world, and that use
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of the winds, saying it's a bit more of a
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: universal association of winds and spirits, and you see it
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: in things like the Greek magical propriory as well. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I talk about some of the references I found,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you know, in Clarb spirit and there's even a couple
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: of references to the winds in the Qur'an. We're associated
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: with the gin. So yeah, I think this was and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of Arabic stuff on the winds, you know.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: It's it's funny how it just sort of drops out,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: really the conservation of the winds after the Swarm Book
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: of Nooris, so the later grim was you might get
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: mentioned of the nastical winds, but there's no using the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: winds for conjuration. And by the time you get to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the more demon focused period the grim Walls from like
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: sixteen seventeenth centralwards and less angelic, you actually get it.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Some of them saying oh, it's going to take you hours,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to repeat it five seven, nine times.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: That's not there in the early stuff like Sumasacramagic and
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: form book. Just assume that they're going to turn up
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: first time because you've sent the winds for them.
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: When I heard you on the Glitch Bottle interview on
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: the podcast, I'm like, wow, dude, it's like he's preaching
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: from the Golden ass because there's a section in there.
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: I had to bring it up deck.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but.
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: There's a section in there where they have this myth
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: of Psyche and arrows and basically she's taken away on
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: the zephyrs, right, and so the zephyrs are doing all
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: the work for the gods, and it's like, well, what
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: happened to that? Where'd that go? That was second century
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: Rome and then they sort of lost that in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: magical tradition later on in the Grimore work. So it's
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: kind of fun the intersection between the.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Two of them.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I said, it does seem to be
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I think something that it's been there all over the place,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and somehow, as we've said many things, it got lost
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: its way. You know, well people forgot about it, things
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: got changed, things get left out. I mean, for me,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: like looking for this over the centuries of the Grimwaite edition.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: The way it's changed, It's not always been an evolution.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Sometimes stuff that gets left out is better to keep in,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and so if an essential component like that gets lost,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important that it gets restored, which
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: is what I've did with Clava Spiritum and have been
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: encouraging everyone in my I've been was distributing it so
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: much beforehand and encouraging people before the book got up,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: because I really wanted other people to be doing it,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: you know, like saying the fact that so many people
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: did it and got results it was like vindication for that.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: It's an effective practice and it should be there.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: It's only in revival.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I could suggest the name.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: Because all of Us was the master of the winds
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: in ancient Greece, and he's the one who handed the
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: bag of winds though Odysseus where he zoomed across the Mediterranean.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: So there's that whole, all this sort of magical connection.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean they had the template for the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: winds in Athens, which has some of the winds on it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: You alsously get a lot more. I've actually kind of
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: started doing a book on the winds, but it's on
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the back burner because I'm writing two books at the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: moment that the ones I've been pushed to write, and
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: then after those are done, I might get back to
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the book on the winds I started, because you go
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: for this whole cycle, you know, because you go for
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: antiquity where you've got four winds, and then it's becomes six,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and becomes eight and even goes up to twenty four,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you know, and get all the sub subquents, so you
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: get like the winds of the south southeast and all these,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: but you know, initially is three, then it's quite quickly four,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you know, as Mats dis mentioned like Eurus Borius. Notice
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: zephyrs also e as well comes in very heavily. The
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: goddess of the dawn is the mother of the winds.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting that one of the grimwalkins the munich
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Hambook of Necromancy sort of fifteenth century. There's a spelling
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: therefore a throne that transports the musician and the angels
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that do it. They're all nearly all of their names
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: are wind names with al on the end, so you
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: get like boreal and zephyrral, and there's clearly just they're
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: just borrowing the winds and sticking out on the end
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and saying, oh, it's an angel, when really they're wind
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It's like that thing that happens a lot with the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: grim Walls, where existing spirits are just repurposed. And I
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: mean we can get together with the gods as well.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like a different gateway or different access
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to gods of the ancient world. They might not have
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: been worshiped, but then they become present in the form
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: of a saint or you know, a spirit that's called up.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, my favorite one of those is because you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Nebbis is my pay from God, and you get him
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: turning up as Saint Christophers and Christopher the Sin of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Cephalis and Christopher the dog Headed, which is literally a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: dog headed saint who's doing the job of psychopomp which
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: as a newist, it's like, okay, the Egypians aren't worshiping
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: him anymore. Find another way that these dudes can feed me.
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah. And it's cuts also that if we're talking about
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: angelic magic, that you have an Hebrew them a lap right,
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: so the messenger you can please them a little bit.
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: Like also the hardline figured like this air kind of
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: figured that the one that brings the message, the one
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: that brings the thing. So kind of if you want
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: to bring the thing into existence, you already have the image,
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: the fire, you have, maybe the feeling the water. If
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: you don't bring the air like, it doesn't like you said,
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: it doesn't come, there's no luber like. Maybe the guy comes,
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: but it's coming like food is gonna take ages for that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: So it makes a lot of sense.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, even just just point playing how it's even
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: associated with transportation. I mean, what's his face, he's got
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: wings on his boots. Yeah, well go ahead, Robert.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I'm just to say too, when when Zeus translates the
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: messages to Apollo for the oracles, he whispers them in
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: the sense of a whispering wind. So yeah, you see
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: this movement of the airs from the Eastern you know,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: wind of the demons to the modern I mean, it's
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: it's very yeah, prolific.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Not to bring it back too far, but David, if
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you don't mind, I did want to kind of ask you.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I do it for most guests that come on. I guess, like,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: at what point did you make the decision that brought
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you to be the person we know now, like, how
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: did you ever even get into this? How did you
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: get inspired or what it said? You have to even
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: start getting into the occult or whatever you call it.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Magic.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I was interested in stuff when I was younger.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to claim that it was like a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: baby thing, you know, like I didn't start with I mean,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: when I was young, I was very interested in mythology.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And when I was like six seven eight, I was
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: reading mythology books in the library like you do, or
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like it did back in those days because there was
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: much less available. So I read about Egyptian and Greek
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: and rsset mythology and some things like that. I was
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a very prolific reader as a kid. They sort of
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: like read a book a day on our bridge every day.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And when I was ten, I went my way through
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: carl UM's collective works, which kind of had a big
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: influence on making me think about the supper RUMs and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: what goes on in the mind and the psyche. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I also read the Dowad e Ying and that became
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: my paper book of all time, like Daoism, and that's
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: been a really big influence through my life. But as
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the defining moment really was when I was fourteen, because
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I had a bit of an incident at the school.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I went to this boys grammar school and somebody tried
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to stab meet with a knife and I took the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: knife off them and it ended up in his leg,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and the school wasn't very happy, and so they said
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: just spoke to see like these counselors. And the counselor
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: said to me, there's nothing wrong with you. You were
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: just not really directing your energy very effectively. You need
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to think about, you know, what you're doing with your time.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: And that really got me thinking. And I walked out
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: of there and bumped into a friend who said, hey,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I was just like, given this maybe I thought you
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: might be interested. And you handed me a catalog from
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a cant supplier that used to be around called dot
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Altique that was one of the big suppliers in England
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: back in the seventies eighties when there wasn't very much around,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: and it was like the book catalog and I looked
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: at it and you know, I thought, yeah, I'm going
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to get some of these books. And I think something
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was obviously guiding my hand there. So I made an
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: order when I ordered six books and those six books
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: were Crowley's Magic Techniques of High Magic by Stephen It's
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: going to influence his king, and of Ivice found some
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: gentle magic, the Key of Solomon, the grimarv Armadale, and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the Saca Magic Babel in the Match. So I got
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: those and I read them and I was like, okay,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: techniquely high magic was the one my fourteen year old
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: brain could relate to the most. So I just started
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: working through doing all the practices in there. You know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it's two hours every day doing Pentagon ritual, hexcom ritual,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: middle Pillar, rose cross, ugilization, meditation, et cetera. Took the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: OAF in there, dedicating my life to magic, which when
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I met Stephen like decades later and we became my
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: best friends, I was like, yeah, thanks for that, Stephen.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: And so that was the moment. Really, So I suppose
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: when somebody just handed me that catalog of just the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: right moment and I looked for them and I'm going
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to get these books, and then I just started the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: practices and it went from there.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Wow, what was uh? I mean you mentioned the hexagram
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: and the Pentagram ritual. I guess, I mean this is
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: just because of my experience when I started getting interested
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: into ceremonial magic, you know, I started looking at Golden
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Dawn and Oto stuff, and that's how I came across
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: those rituals. Was that because you were like interested in
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: like the Golden Downer, the li Bex that were like,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: how did you even come across those those rituals to perform?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean technics of high magic has got them
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: in so I just started doing them from the book.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: When I was eighteen, I was in the Magical Lodge.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: It's very old school that was derived from the Celebrati
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Tina and one of the first things to do was like,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: get me to perform the Pentagram ritual, So how do
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you do it? And I showed them the MT Master
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Temple five. Yeah, that's not bad. His some recordings of
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: is Rae Regardo doing it. So you can improve how
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you buy about your Hebrew and stuff because it had
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: been set up under ther Sason Regardis and they knew
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and so I then you know that from there. I
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: love the Pentagram ritual. I've done loads of workshops on
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it with people. I've amended it based on it was
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: changed a little bit in the way it was done
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: in the group because Regarde had some thoughts on ways
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: it could be improved, and so we took those on
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: board and made some slight differences to the way it's done.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: And I've actually recently in the last couple of years
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: changed it up a little bit again in that I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: now instead of being before me, Raphael, before me Michal,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: because you're facing east and east direction of fire, and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: then so on my right hand Raphael, so then you
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: have the Michael Gabriel access front and back, and then
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Raphael oriole right and left. And I just like I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: prefer that because you know, for many years I've been
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: working with the fire east south that Levi switched and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: modern magic just took on board wholesale, which kind of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: destroys the whole thing of elemental theory of like the
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: associations of the you know, the hot, cold, wet, dry
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: axis and the qualities of the elements being shared with
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the ones on either side, right, and so yeah, I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: just made some changes and work it in my slightly
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: varied well I'm actually thinking of doing a blog post
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: on that actually just throw it out there see if
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: other people want to play with that, which I didn't
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: really like as much because it's a good example of
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: what you're seeing. Quite a lot of the older stuff
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: what i'd call like a hollow ritual, like it's formed
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: without force, that there isn't any visualization or anything given
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: for the x Greme ritual. You have to let make
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: it your own visualizations for it, whereas the Bengam ritual
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: is the whole, complete, little system in itself. And I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: love the Pentagram ritual. You know, you're combining voice work
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: with movement and body work and visualization. It's like it's
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a really good package for practicing and honing your skills
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: as a daily practice. But some of the things, like
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the hex Creme riture just they're a bit hollow. They
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: don't have all that in them.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I can see that. One thing I wanted to ask,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, with the Hextagram ritual, is there
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: even you know, debate on fire and air being switched around.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering, like, does that the way you're doing your
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Pentagram ritual? Does that match the Hextagram Like the same way?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Do you understand what I'm saying? How I think facing
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to the east, sometimes people want to do the fire
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: on one instead of the air I think the same thing.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I've heard the beats over there.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Well, they were wanting to do fire in the east.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I would totally go along with that with because that's,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: you know, the similism I like to work with.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: The Other reason why is many years go ahead?
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Sorry, so I say, there's many many years since I've
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: done the hexagram, I still use Okay, you know I
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: like the Pentagram ritual. However, I if I do the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Pentagon ritual, what I do now is adding before and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you know the thing I created the license to remain
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: because you know, I have my own spiritual court of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: spirits around me and I don't want to be insulting
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: them by you know, if you do that from the
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Pengram victory, you basically push everything out of the area
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: so it's completely neutralized in neutral space, So you know,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: giving the permission to the spirits around you or any
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: house spirits or genius Loki through outdoors to remain while
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: you do it, so that you're not consulting, you know,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: any of those spirits when you do the Pentagram ritual.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: The reason I even asked that is because I'm just
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: taking I guess I could be wrong, but and not
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: like for me when I used to let's say, if
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do planetary work, I would start off
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: with you vanishing with pentagram ritual first and then move
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: into the hexagram ritol. I'm thinking maybe if you did
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: that thing with the fire in the East, you just
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: want to kind of uniform with those two were going together.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It makes sense.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does make sense. And that's what I
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: used to do many years ago. Is right, like say
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: it's pentagram and hexagram. I mean, my dissatisfaction with the
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: hexagram was why I created the heptogram ritual that's in
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: practical Planetary magic. Jumping back to one of the things
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that you said earlier wanted to you know, talk about
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: those books, and that was the hexper ritual was the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: inspiration for me to make a heptogram because I thought, well,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: heptagram's seven for the planets, and let's bring in the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Greek vowels because there's seven vowels, and that's something that
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: where we can give put all of those things that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: are missing from the expritual into a planetary ritual that
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: just has a bit more completion to it.
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: But even do an opagram one within the eight directions, right,
• 31:07
  Speaker 7: like the four cardinal and the other other four crossing
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: that would be really nice as well.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: We do tell I'm just gonna say, yeah, very.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: There's like the eight that's sort of chaosphere of things.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, is what would you choose forget? Would you
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: put planet Earth in his number right there? If you're
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: going with seven classical planets, because it makes it kind
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: of makes sense for Earth to be the ape one.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And if you look into certainly in the Grim Walls,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you have the seven directions attributed on the quarters and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: cross quarters, but northeast is the one that doesn't have one,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: and that's traditional place entering the circle. And I know
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: from chatting with like Steven Skinner that in Chinese magic
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: as well, they have the thing of like northeast is
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: where the magician comes in for Chinese sorcery. And so
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: that on those things that you can find in several systems,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you've got the seven and then the sort of the empty,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: so there's an itbum for empty, but then you close
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: it obviously, and then so that's why I'm saying, it
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: kind of makes sense planet Earth to be there because
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you're sealing it off and then moving transforming the space.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of rased separate from the mundane, so
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: an optagram would have a logical place as we say, yeah, it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: Is interesting to sorry Nick, to note David that we
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: do face our altars northeast so well in Varceriana, so
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: and we do have ten directions, but one of those
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: is the two poles moving up and down, which are
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: also contained in the inner channels of course, but you
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: could also say, in terms of gross planetary bodies that
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: the So you have the seven and then you have
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: the also the nine. So we have Rahu and Kattu,
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: which although are shadow planets and they are assigned to
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: the north and south note of the Moon, they actually
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: are planets in and of themselves. And I posit that
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: you can actually map Rahu to Uranus and Kattu to Neptune,
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: you know, if you want to use a contemporary system.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: Just it's a speculative idea, but I think I can.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Make a case for I've seen other people make in
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: case of the same thing, So yeah, I think that definitely,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: you could absolutely make a case.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: As you say, chins like, damn, I thought that was
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: my idea. It's happened to me before, and I.
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: Never think it's my idea because I recognize that kabbala
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: can you can just map everything to the tree, right,
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: so people from first principles can sort of reconstitute how
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: things should look. And I think that that was also
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: my experience, just using my kind of like my system
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: and my view of it in a Buddhist way and
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: just mapping into the tree and being like, okay, let's
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: look at the suffer yetra and like you know, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: map it to the contric the Mahovija system.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: So that's that's how I came to that conclusion.
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: I don't think it was definitely didn't solely originate with me,
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: but I think I can make us a case for
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: my own.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Also, Zay, I have any questions before I ask some
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: more here?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just a quick one. How do you? I mean?
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: And now I've been working quite some years with spirits
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: since one, David, But how do you understand them? Like
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: if someone were to ask what are they? How would
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: you explain it from you or point of view since
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: you've been working with them? Because I know maybe some
• 34:29
  Speaker 7: schools don't like they'll do things differently. It's one, but
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: how do you personally understand them? I think that's interesting thing.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: It depends on the type of spirits, but if you
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: go with like for example, celestials and infernals, then they are,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you know, distinct entities that are not and generally have
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: never been human, unlike the dead for example, or some
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: spirits and other traditions where they're from the ancestors and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: people who have died. In some respects, they're quite unknowable
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: because they are so different from us. But again, if
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: we say angels and demons, by and large, they are
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: mostly airy, sometimes fiery beings in the point of view
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: of where their elements are. That's why I'm One of
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the reasons I really like the Olympic Spirits is because
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it specifically talks about that there are the Olympic Spirits
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: about balance or for elements in them, that they contain
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: air of fire and water, and that balance in them
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: might be one of the reasons why they are so
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: friendly and easy to work with. Why I always recommend
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the Olympic Spirits or the plant for intelligence is to
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: people starting conjuration. They're the ones that you like to
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: get be the politest and friendliest and easiest to work with,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: and you get really good results with them. As well.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: People want to jump in and be or dark and scared.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Let's do this demonic stuff, but way better to get
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: your house in order and do the other stuff with
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the spirits that have more balance to them, And then
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: you'll also finalize you'll probably find that you don't need
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: to work with the other ones. So if you can
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: get everything you need from working with a couple of
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Olympic spirits, why go off and then start working with
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: loads of other ones. I don't understand the logic of that,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't come to tons of different spiritual ease.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I've got a few that I work with, but they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: do a thing I need. If I need something that,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: why would I then go off and start calling up
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: of ones? And I don't need to create new bonds
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: and obligations if I've already got ones that can do it.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: And you see that in some of the said something
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: like Commander, you know, like Ureessua or Pompageira. You know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: if they can't do the task, they'll just contact out
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: to another one and then they'll tell you what you're
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: going to have to offer, and you okay, so you're
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: gonna have to use this Pontereau and do these offerings
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and possibly this offering and sing these songs, et cetera,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: and they'll just subcontract out. And there's that in the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Grim Walls as well as an extent when you have
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: some of the intermediate spirits like Skurling and the care environment,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: also the demon bishops. I've found from my own experience
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: where they are things, Okay, you want this job done,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: this is this is the best person for the job.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: This is the one you need to work to call on.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's really a case of getting
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the right one for the job, but not overplaying it.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Not they're not Pokemon cards. You don't need to collect
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the more, you don't need to do all. I've got
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: our story shrining. It's now undred all seventy two. That's
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: really not a good idea. If you start looking at
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the description one of them, it basically tells you that
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the main it's not really going to be helpful, but
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to try and make sure you get killed.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Why would you want to call that one up for example?
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's it's perhaps that thing
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: of keep it simple. My layers of simplicity, don't don't
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: create unnecessary relationships. If you've got a small group of
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: things that work really well for you, that's that's my
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: that's the way I do it and suggest to other people.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Nice thanks.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Since you put out those Elemental the Planetary books, has
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: your own practice and like what you even like I
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: guess study and look at changed till now.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: It's changed a huge amount because those things that Domini
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: is very much working, you know, running groups, and they
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: were sort of so a lot of stuff that's focused
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: on group magic. For the last fifteen years, most of
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the work I've done has been you know, the Grimmaw
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: stuff has been solitary. And there's been times where I've
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: worked for other people because I've been doing the Grimos
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: stuff for or forty four years. But you know, in
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: recent years it's been mainly me doing solo stuff and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: occasionally with other people. So it's changed. The point of
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: view of my magic is really focused on more solitary
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: practice and as a result, you know, having to have
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: everything sorted for yourself is it's such a different dynamic
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to when you're working with other people. I like group stuff,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: but it's just not been practical. Excuse me of say,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: being in the right location or having the right people
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: available to do things with at the times you want
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: to do stuff. So yeah, my practices have changed a
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: huge amount. And you know I did do the conjuration
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: in the past with groups I ran as well at times,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: like for example, back in the nineties and noughties, you
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: know Alexandri and covens that Iran I would focus on.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, the thing with Wicker is that it's you know,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the Book of Shadows is like a skeleton. You know,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: You've got a flesh and put the muscles and the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: sinews and the flesh on it. And so any group
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that I was high priest of with the blessing of
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the High process obviously, but all the covens that i've
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: co co run has been with wives, so that's not
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: been a problem that there would be a lot of
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: ritual magic training thrown in there. So people, if they're
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: in a couple with me, they're going to get a
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: lot of ritual magic training. And I also wanted them
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: to experience conjuration, so I would do conjuration of Olympic
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: spirits with the coven so they could experience it for themselves,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: which was great because many could do it in an
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: experimental way. So for example, rather than just having one squire,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: having three squires who could and would see if they
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: all got the same answers to the questions that were
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: asked to the Olympic Spirit, or if they got different answers,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: because that would you know, there are bemifications on that
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and by lize getting the same hearing the same answer
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: from the spirit. So that was an interesting thing. But
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: for them to sort of understand that wicker has its
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: place and for some people it's the right thing, but
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: there's other things as well, And so I wanted people
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: to see some of the other options that they could do.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I know a lot of Wickens. It's
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: not the only practice. They might have other things they
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: do as well. I know some old school Wickans who
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: are really into bring more stuff, for example. It's just
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: not getting into that box or I do and I
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: can't do anything else, you know. I once offended an
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: old school with and somebody actually who was in Garden's
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: original coven. We were having a conversation and who I've
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: been doing worker for forty years, and I said, oh,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: what do you do? So you know we do this
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: sabot see you in the thirteen psmas. What about daily practice? Well,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I've never done a daily practice in my life. And
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, what, so that's the only mantic you do?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: So and basically, you know, the high prices and piece.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Because it was Gardner's original Covenant, they did all pretty
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: much all the work anyway, so the people just learnt
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: by watching and they didn't didn't get stuck, explained and
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, okay, And then I said Tom,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, this might sound rude, but
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I would rather work for someone who's done a year's
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: daily practice than someone who's had forty years of occasional rituals,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: because they have put in the discipline, persistence and will
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: have got more from that. And then I said the
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: bit that I was young at the time, so it
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: was a bit of a an asshole move. Then I
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: said to him, you know, forty years of shit is
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: still ship, which looking back, I now I think that
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: was a bit that was just like the arrogance of youth,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: And that was not a really very nice thing to say,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: even if you can think of just an element of
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: truth in it, it was still a pretty roofing say.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: But I was, you know, I was in the early
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: twenties at the time, and at that age. You know,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: back in those days in the eighties, it was like
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: it was a very different scene to the world now.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, yeah.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: But to me that that is a huge thing that
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I see. There's a big absence of the whole thing
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: of particularly in the early years, the importance of daily practice.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: It makes such a solid foundation. You know, you've got
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to be doing your meditation and originalization, give breath work,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: et cetera, on a daily basis to strengthen those muscles
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: to the imagination, the mental muscles, et cetera. For effective practice.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: If you can't visualize something, how are you going to
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: have an effective intent to expell et cetera. So people
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: just want to jump in and start, you know, in
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the deep end and drown they can. But for me,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: the daily practice thing is absolutely essential.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask you that what would be well,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask you back in the days
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: when you put out the Pentagram, the Elemental, Daily, Mental,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: and the Planetary books, what was your daily practice like
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: back then? The reason I asked it was probably very
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: close to what mine was. That's why it is.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Back then I was, well, I haven't done it for
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: many years since I was doing the heptogram as a
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: daily and you know, switching up the heptogram, you know,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: starting the prop according to the planet of the day.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I was doing a lot, quite a lot of devotional
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: work at the time, and I go through I've gone
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: through phases in my life where if I'm not doing
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of active stuff, then I'll just be doing,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like you know, on a daily basis, I have to
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: do something just be simple meditation, visualization, and possibly and
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: then I might I want to do a devotion to
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a particular deity for a month or a few months
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: or something. So I was doing a lot at the time.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I was doing a lot of stuff with Hectian hermes,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: so there was like devotional stuff with them. And then
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I had like a daily energetic practice that I created
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: that I was doing every day that you know, I
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: did for decades. But I've actually started doing now after
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: my spirits said it's a great practice that it's actually
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: blocking some of your sensitivity. And it's true that I
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: found that I've my psychic the psychism has like kind
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: of spiked and got a lot better since I started
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: the practice. So it's like great, great sort of energetic walls,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: as it were, but those walls were also keeping up
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: stuff that I needed up to come in. You know,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you can you can oversheeld.
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: So we got a question from the audience. He says,
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: how much has the occult ritual forms changed over the
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: last twenty five to fifty years.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Well, it's it's changed a lot. I mean back in
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: the I mean back in the eighties, got the late
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: eighties when chaos magic really hit. You know, I had
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of friends who are on the chaos magic scene.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I was kind of involved a bit. I used to
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: write under a pseudonym for Chaos International back in the days,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: so there's some of my material in there. But with
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: charismagic there was really nothing of like stripping the stuff
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: back and just getting to like technique and practice. And
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I'm all in favor of focusing on technique and practice.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I think it kind of lost its way a bit,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: myself personally bian But there are good people doing the stuff.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: And what I found interesting is a lot of people
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: in chais magic have often been come back upon themselves
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: being very focused into something like Norse magic and the Rooms,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: for example, or Tantra, or really heavily into breath work.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: It's like they end up not being that chaotic, and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: most of the chass magicians I know actually the most
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: ordered and structured people. So charismagic is really good because
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: it was a bit like the punk of magic, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: like let's let's get away, get rid of all the
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: detritus and what we don't need and go back and
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: just focus on what actually works for us. And that's
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: so it really pushed that key thing of you know,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: doing magic that worked. If it's not working what you're doing,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: you know, you need to either change it up, look
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: at what's going wrong, or switch to something else that
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: does work. So that was a big shift. The Internet
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: changed things massively as well. You know, from the mid
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: nineties on you need to get the you know, the
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the BBL boards and stuff where people were saying they
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: able to start communicating and finding out because prior to that,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: you know, you go back to the eighties, there were
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: it was really hard to find people. There was the
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: occasional conference, but certainly in the UK conferences. I was
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: part of the first fore Linix impostment in nineteen eighty
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: six in Oxford, and that was the first thing of
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: its kind where we had this symposing like Fellowites came
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: from all over Europe and a couple even came from
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the States for this gathering. We had like, you know,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: really good speakers. That's it, you know. We had Michaelmgee,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Lionel Snell, David Rietti who was in the calor Pace
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: at the time who's passed since I can't remember who else,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: but it was really it was a great gathering, and
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: suddenly there was a sense of community there, like we
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: had like one hundred of Pelomites from all over the
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: place getting together and people starting to make connections. The
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Internet enabled people to make those connections online immediately, rather
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: than having to try and find out about events that
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: you'd only find out about a few subscribed to certain
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: magazines where the events are advertised, or went into a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: magical bookshop that you've tracked down and they happen to
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: have an advert up. So that proliferation has meant that
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: people have shared a lot more and so there's been
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: a lot more exchange and change. There's also been, you know,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: since the early noughties, things growing and blooming, like the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Grimwell tradition. There was very little Grimwell stuff. The odd
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: book done prior to early two thousands. You know, then
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Joseph Peace and doing all his amazing stuff and his
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: hysteric Archives of website. You know, Stephen my found in
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Golden Hoard and putting out the source Wip series, and
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: then loads of other people started doing really good stuff,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and the Grimweld Edition really blossomed and folk magic has
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: become really big. So there's been loads of changes. Another
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: one is that there's a lot more spirit based magic
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: now than there was. And one thing that I'm really
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: happy about is that back in the eighties, nineties, to
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: a lesser except the noughties as well, even people were
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: not really paying attention to the dead. There were people
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: weren't doing a lot of ancestral stuff or working with
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Fitsteadit it's like this whole thing of the that's actually dooble,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: just do something at Swayne and remember the dend and
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: the rest of the year, it's like we won't even
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: think about them. But it's like they don't go away.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: They're there the whole time, you know. It's like it's
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: I think the ATR particularly have been influentially making people
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: pay a lot more attention to the influence of the
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: dead and the ancestors, and that's become a lot more
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: present in a lot of people's workings, which is something
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy about because I mean that's something that
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: got influenced by early people like Crowley. You know Crowley's
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: coment about spiritualism being a Internetcrophilia, and he had a
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: very negative adage that. And you know, Crowley is such
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: a two age sword. Some of his materials has been
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: great and transformational, and some of it was such a
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: screw up, like his attitude of the AARs Garcia spirits
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: being parts of the human psyche that he postulated and
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: then wavered on. But so lots of people go, oh, yeah,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the demons are just part of my mind. No, they're
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: bloody not so. Yeah, there've been a huge amount of changes.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more good practice available, but
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: there's all they've been who's proliferation in bullshit, people who
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: don't know what they talk about, basting on TikTok and
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: other basis. So it's a case of one of the
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: things that the last fifty years has really brought in
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is people really need to have their discernment filters on
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: when they're engaging, especially online, getting run over.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: I was going to ask, coming from the elemental base
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: of mythology and bringing that forth in regard to your traditions,
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: when you're doing your research, how far back into these
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: traditions are you digging?
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Well, the Grimwall stuff, I'm going back as far as
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I can, so you know, the Grimwall's proper kind of
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: start reading from about the twelve percent twelfth thirteenth century.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: But you've got four threads that really feed into the Grimis,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: which is from the Greek and as I'll go back
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: to that Arabic, Jewish, and Latin Christian. Obviously, with those
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: we can then take some of them further back. So
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: the Greek stuff is influenced by Egypt and Suma for example.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: So you know, you can look at things, what you
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: can say there is a continuity of idea and practice.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: It's not an unbroken line all the way back to
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: eating consumer from the Grimwals, but there is a continuity
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: of practice, the use of the magic circle, having spirits
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: in the directions, having guardians, various things like this. Then
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: we look at the Arabic. Obviously, one component of the
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Arabic is that they preserve a lot of the Greek
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: matial that otherwise would have been lost. But also the
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Arabic you also feeding there from India and possibly China.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I mean a good example of that it is the
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Mansions of the Moon, because you know the Mansions of
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the Moon people talk about in the Pickatricks and the
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: greenwas and how it comes to the Arabs. But the
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Arabs got it from the Greeks who write about the
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Mansions of the Moon, and then the Greeks got it
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: from India. So that's actually an Indian idea that is
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: fed via Greece into the Arabic and then into the
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: European Greenworld edition. So it's really traveled. So yeah, I
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: look to try and track back as far as I
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: can in history and then present what I've found, and
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's I think there's a lot more needs
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to be done on the Indian connection, start because obviously
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that India did have that connection to Greece
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: means there's probably more stuff that needs to be looked
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: at with connections there that hasn't really been done yet.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, as far as possible, smiled, so I suppose
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: as I can.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, admirable. That's what it's all about. Is really
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: digging in and finding the true essence and juice of
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: what these things are about. That's what I really enjoy
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: about it all.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Too well.
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: Even Promanities can be said to be part of the
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: Greek sort of Grimore tradition because his on Nature, you
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: know verse that started off you know, ontology and all
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: the rest of these philosophical movements was based in the
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: castle of the Queen of the Knight. So he's actually
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: having some sort of a divine experience as he's describing
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: things like formal logic for the first time in the
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: least agent Greece. So there's a lot of that Grimore
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: tradition that sort of carries through into philosophy through the Neoplatonics,
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: and so a lot of that.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't get recognized as such.
• 55:51
  Speaker 6: But if you look at the way that it's written,
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: it's clearly talking about communicating with spirits and gods.
• 55:58
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm sorry, sorry, David, my apologies.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: As the neoplatonic thing is, you know, some people aren't
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: vaking on neoplatonism, but it's a really big influence because
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: because you get sort of the Christian thing of neo
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: platonic stuff, like with ptudodigonosis, the area Paga, who's the
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: guy who writes success to hierarchies, which is the first
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: sort of cataloging of the nine orders of angels, which
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: then goes throughout the whole of Christianity. And you also
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: get people in the Renaissance like Giordano Bruno who were
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: sort of doing neoplatonic stuff and bringing in the whole
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: idea then of the image magic astromagic as astra and
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: the sense of its image and bringing in that side
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: of things and going off onto stuff like memory palaces,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: and it goes all over the place. So absolutely that
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: is a huge in relance and the semi cross fertilization.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: You know, no magical system unless it's on some island
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the Pacific or something exists in operation.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: There's always been all this cross fertilization and syncretization that's
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: gone on, and that going back to the earlier comments
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: some worried about how things have changed. That's one of
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the things I think we've seen in recent years is
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more prospertalization than syncretization between different groups,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: where people are recognizing the value and it's not about
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: appropriation it's about recognizing, hey, this works really well. I Mean,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: somebody asked me, how do you decide whether you're appropriating
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: or what if you include something for non practice, And
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: my answer to that was, I will look if there
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: are parallels to what I see that I like anywhere
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: in my tradition, and if there are, then I can
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: work from those routes. If there aren't, then I'm not
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: going to appropriate it. But you know, it's the parallels thing.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: It's like with the wind says parallels. So often there
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: are parallels because the way the human mind and spirit works,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you know, we're all kind of flowing in the same
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: general direction, so nothing is going to be unique.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting what you just guess. We're
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: kind of just saying now in so many words. And
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: there's even a topic of a show that I had
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: thought of doing on my own, because like I have
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: covered so many people recently, and some of them are
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: even on Gnostic saints, you know, doing you know, shows
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: on certain alchemists or ocultis in the past. I don't
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: think the reason why I even want to do it,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: and you know, not be tiff tat, but like you know,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: in in in the conspiracy community and podcasting. Christian podcasters
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: will be the first one they call people like me Satanists,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: And I think it's pretty funny if you were to
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: actually realize how many people that I'm interested in actually
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: shaped your idea of Christianity. It's fucking going you. They
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: have zero clue obviously.
• 58:36
  Speaker 7: And.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Christianity is it's a huge influence during the Renaissance. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: Also, David, sorry to follow up though to next point, David,
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: do you think of that people? This has been a
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: point of contention on the panel before. I take the
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: pro sort of a of the sun pro Christianity in
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: a way, the esoteric sort of layer camp. I'm pro that,
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: But do you think we should respect the context of
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: Christianity in terms of the grimwork tradition and how it arises,
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: and that perhaps it's not super useful always to create
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: dialectical polls against like certain you know, more outer I
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: always say outer temple religion for outer temple people.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: So there's always got to be there has to be
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: a catch all for like those.
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: People, and maybe it's more useful to speak to them
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: in their language rather than try and impose your you know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: worldview or will on them.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know, just what do you think of that?
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean I recently wrote about grim wall I mean,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: grims are essentially in the Christian framework. You know, it's
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: the Christian cosmology. There are fact that there are elements
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: and elsewhere, but by large and the battery that is
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: operated on is fifteen hundred years of Christianity, so it's
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a hugely powerful battery. But I say the Christians the
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: grim is quite more heretical in the sense that it's
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: not the Christianity of churches and priests and congregations. It's
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: a Christianity of there's these spirits and I can deal
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: with them directly. You know, it doesn't need to be
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: done in the church, in fact, preferably outdoors because all
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: the early grimmar stuff. It's all about doing it away
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: from people where you're not going to get caught in
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: trouble for doing these strange rituals which the church wouldn't
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: prove of. So and some people struggle with the fact
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: that there is such a Christian framework to the grimwals,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: and I have. I mean there's been Jack Strand Kent
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Geo Sophia is a good example of that. Looking at
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: the Greek where it's with the goez and things. That
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: is one of the big feeding factors in I mean,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I don't agree that it's the only one. You know,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Jake stress, is that really heavily. I think the Jewish
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: influence is hugely significant, because you know, back in two
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: thousand and five in Planatory of Life, I said I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: think there's a Macava influence into the grimwast example, which
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I was really happy to discover. There's actually stuff from
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: the Macava text and Seemer taken magic a proving my
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: point that I was correct. You know, there was, but
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: there are components of the grim Walls which you can
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: see there from earlier times. I mean, there's all the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Canaanite names of God that you know, the produced now
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: that's in the Bible. For example, I get used and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: one of the things I've added in to the way
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I do grimware stuff, and it's in you know, Carba
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Smith and I was having the shakina there so that
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: you have the balance of divine feminine divine masculine, which
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: completely transforms the circle, the magic circle that you do
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: con duration in because it brings the whole thing of
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: the divine wisdom and there's a grace, sort of fluidity
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and beauty to the practice with it, and apart from
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: anything else, we all have a pregnant shaquen in us
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: as the spark of our soul. Means that if you're
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: working with the shakin you're actually activating the divine fragment
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: of yourself, so you have the authority to deal with
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: the spirits. So that's not classically a part of the tradition,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: but to me, it's something that entirely makes sense, and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: it's something that I got pushed by my spirits to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: look at, and I looked and there's a lot of
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: references in the grim walls that kind of hint at
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: her presence without it ever being said to me, that
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: was enough of a reason to bring the shakina into
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: the conjuration sequence. And I've found, you know, it works
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: like a dream, and the spirits are really happy about
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: it as well that I work with that, you know,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: the chikin has been made a part of the sequence.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: I absolutely agree with you, David, obviously, because in Vadariana
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: and in Tatra more generally, of course, you have the
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: Shiva and the shakti or the breath and the compassion
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: or the couple in Yabyam in divine Union, if you
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: want to caut that. So I absolutely agree with that,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: And I also wanted to sort of follow up on
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: your idea of sing criticism in Central Asia, like through
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: the Mughal the Mughalized Indians. There's a lot of interesting
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: scholarship about how they were actually taking contric ideas, specifically
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: from Kashmir, and then sort of encoding them into this
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: Moughalized Persianified Arabic that they repackage and then sold to
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: or gave to the sort of Arab bankers who were
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: the supporters of their court. So I think that that
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: scholarship is just beginning now, but I think it does
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: answer at least respond to some of the things that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: you were thinking about how a lot of Indian ideas
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: were not necessarily laundered but sort of traded along into
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: the greater Arabic Gramar tradition.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: Well, I was going to ask a quick question about
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: or a reading do you use or viewing or a
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 6: reading within your practices, because what I've found is like
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 6: if you go back to the ancient text, they could
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: be describing that, especially with things like the Chicaga glory,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 6: like they're looking at some sort of an envelope of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: energy around these people that we see translated in artwork
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 6: as the you know, the halo or these other things.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: But the act of viewing could be a form of
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: like gnostic site. Right, You're you're looking at the world
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 6: with different eyes. So we see that a lot in
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 6: all of the ancient texts as well. Did you have
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 6: any experience with that.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: I do times see people's auras, and it's always very
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: interesting to see where the dominances are like color wise
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: and yes, And what I have on a similar vein
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: to that is remote viewing with permission people doing ritual
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: and being able to then see the auras of the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: practitioners while they're doing it and seeing the circle and
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the things is a really interesting practice. I mean, it's
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: actually a really rewarding thing to do because it gives
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: another level of experiential certainty. Give a funny example of this.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Many years back in nineteen eighty seven, I was leading
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: a ritual in Oxford. It was a public ritual and
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: the one sort of hillside in these woods just outside
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: of Oxford, and we had about eighty people. There is
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: a group that was doing stuff for animal rights and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: there was three sort of local hippies were sitting on
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: the hill watching us, and we did the reason. Afterwards
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: they came up and they were like, wow, thanks for
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: the light show. And these guys were tripping off their
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: brains on acid and said what these guys then described
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: to us amazingly they were coherent of to describe, but
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: they're like, when the surfa been drawn, they've seen this
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: like white fire guy all around, and when the particular
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: goddess and God have been called, the person called the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: god has said, seeing this cascade of energy into them,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: and they've seen a different color one for the guy
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: doing the god. And they were describing all the aura
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: stuff that was going on just because they were in
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: that state tripping on the acids that they were actually
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: seeing the energetic component of the ritual because they were
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: described exactly all the things had happened, and these were
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: people who had no understanding experience of magic.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: As a hyper sensitivityscore.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I really push
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: it with people. If anyone I trained that one of
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: the first things you've got to work on is your visualization,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: because daily visualization practice even if you think I'm not,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: I'm a psychic. As a turnip, right, it helps open
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: you up. It helps develop your power to visualize. But
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: that also increases your psychic sensitivity and will make you
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: more sensitive doing that as daily practice, particularly over the years.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think that thing of being able
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: to see what's going on energetically is like a really
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: useful thing to have there.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll say even using other senses sometimes if you
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 7: have them like more easily for you, for example, the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 7: smell or the taste or whatever, that's also very let's say,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 7: it enhances also be the whole situation, whole experience. And
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 7: I completely agree with this idea of also, like you
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 7: were saying earlier, like trying making other people try and
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 7: test the thing that you're doing or maybe be there
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 7: like in this case you mentioned it wasn't it was
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 7: kind of my chance right that people were there.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: But if you can do it reliably, it also helps.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 7: I had I had my mom go up the tree
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 7: as I was doing a practice that was doing in swamp,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 7: and it was funny because I mean, I never talked
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 7: her about anything, but as she was describing each of
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 7: the things in the spheres, she was like completely doing
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 7: the crustal and I went, Okay, to me, that's a
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 7: very good sign. You know, like a person never heard
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 7: about it and they can see the thing more and
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 7: get the associations. So that's very cool.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: I mean the psychic senses actually, you know in Club
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: of Spirit and I wrote a chatter about the senses
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: in conjuration and also the psychic aspects of them like
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Claire Auditory, Claire of Faction, et cetera. And you know
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: how those can be subtle helped with picking up sids
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: that the spirits have arrived, because the visual image of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: them in the crystal isn't always necessarily the first thing.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: And even taste. I mean I've had it on more
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: than one occasion when it's been a Martiall spirit where
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: I've got like a metallic tongue in my mouth, like
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: a psychic taste that that spirit has turned up. It's like, okay,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: I know you're in the ball, so trying to show
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: yourself please. So yeah, not to underestimate those psychic senses
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: and the fact they will develop through doing magic. Even
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: if you go in thinking I'm completely psychically a brick
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: and a zero, you will not remain at that state.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: If you're doing your daily practice, you're doing thesization, meditations,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: actually doing rituals, they will those muscles will develop and
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: your psychos will increase.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: And I was going to say, when you get into
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: just the long standing tradition of following this back as
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: far as we can into the ancient mysts of history,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: this is something that people have been participating with. So
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: in essence, there's a genetic memory that kind of carries
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: through the whole as as you know, the entirety of humanity.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and things like fragrance is a great one, you know,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: because smell is the strongest sense and for mental associated
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: with memory. And we going back to the you know,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: like to arcade Mandays with the use of fragrance, whether
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: it's plain resonant stuff being thrown on the fire, what
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: have you. That and spirits loves sweet president smells as well.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: So the importance of the other senses, people should not
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: underestimate it. And like I said that those build into
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: our heritage.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 7: It's almost like to help with the that they you
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 7: already have, like the whatever, how you do a practice right,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 7: Maybe you have the kendles, maybe you have smaller stuff
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 7: like the incense then with the specific smell might also
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 7: help to connect with them.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: Umigation. It's all over the age of world. They're always fumigating,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: and that's that's a big part of it. But I
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: think that it's this web of associations that we see
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 6: as the Kabbala try and all the rest of these
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 6: things that come out of the ritual magic, Like they
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 6: start to understand things better by getting to know these
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: spirits and seeing all of these vast myriad associations with
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 6: them as as sort of like that starting point for
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 6: an understanding of the world around them.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the the doing of it and then getting into
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: this the spirit ecology of the subtle stuff that's going on.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: That's a little part. Always the will say, well, how
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: do you know any of this stuff? You're doing this reel?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: How do you know electricity is real? How do you
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: know X rays are real? These things that you can't see,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: but you know you see their effects, You know they're there.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: You see one seventieth of the light spectrum? What about
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: the other sixteen seventieths. It's the same principle. We're working
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: with spirits and subtle energies. We know from experience that
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: they're real. We have direct experience of them. So that
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: is the difference, isn't it. It's like the experience, like
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: experienceial stuff. You know it's real, you just only can
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: get on to do. And once somebody has had an
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: experience that confirms it for them, that's usually when they
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: the practice tends to take on more solidity, I think
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: for many people, and.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: The belief itself precipitates higher forms of experience.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's funny because I saw it on Twitter yesterday
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 7: that now, I mean, we already have virtual vision, right,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 7: like we are seeing each other through a virtual thing.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 7: We are hearing each other through a virtual thing. And
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 7: then yesterday I saw they were doing some virtual smelling.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 7: So they put like an ultrasound thing on of victoric
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 7: bowl or whatever inside and then you can smell something
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 7: that it's not there. So like again, I'm smelling the thing,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 7: but it's not there. How can I say it's real? Well,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 7: you're sensing it. So there's this para like kind of
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 7: digital sense that don't have, so it doesn't necessarily have
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 7: to be there or even like Wi Fi, all those
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 7: things like we're saying, they happen, they exist, so there's
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 7: and there's no point of saying no, they don't exist,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 7: because it's there.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but when you get into the old Tabernacle and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: the traveling tint and they would burn the incense, I
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: mean the incense even in the oldest sext go back
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: to you know, the children of Noah and Adam and
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: Eve and the magi bringing the incense and so you
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: and then you know, you get into modern theater now
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: and you have technological advances where they're actually having theater
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: where they're spraying smells in your face to heighten the
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: level of the experience. So this is all ways that
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: ritual magic traditionally has precipitated these means, and now it's
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: being utilized by modern technology in different ways.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: So much goes on that it's magical practice being technique
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: being used that people don't even realize. I mean, what
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: always makes me laugh is sure these production schitules and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: logos for businesses and things. For sure, Mermaid is actually
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, meloicing the I like it.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: You brought that up. Yeah, It's always been a quite
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: obvious one, you know, especially when you start get into badge,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh wow, these signals are everywhere.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 7: Everywhere or even you know, people say, oh, I don't
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 7: believe in astrology, but then you go study marketing. They
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 7: have twelve archetypes and you can map pretty clearly one
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 7: of them to each of the uh like strategy times
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 7: and then it's like, okay, guess what you want.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I call them archetypes and that's cool, but it's there exist.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, before I before I started asking some more
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: stuff about your recent work, uh not to put you
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: on the spot, Arrows, was there anything you wanted to ask?
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: I know you haven't been been quiet, so I wasn't
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: sure if you're just like nervous about it or whatever.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 8: I guess I'm just focused. I do have some questions,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 8: what does your daily practice look like now? Like how
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 8: has your relationship to magic changed over the years, Like
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 8: did you used to do certain practices and they evolved
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 8: or you've realized you know, like we go through different
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 8: phases maybe sometimes where it's like I'm working with this
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 8: more and then you start working with something else more.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 8: Like I just wonder how that journey has been.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 7: For you.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: These days. My daily practice is really simple. It's just
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: like meditational, energetic practice that I do, you know, I
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: have a two year nine month old daughter, so most
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: of my if she's in the house and away because
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: she's with me, she's very deadly focused, so that takes
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: a large chunk of my time. So then factoring in
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: the time when she's a sleepoort nursery, I have to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: do my editing work and try and get writing done
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: a bit of time for my wife. So I don't
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: have a lot of time. Practice wise, if I need
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: to do stuff, then I will meet time. For example,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: I quite often make solomonic pentacles for people, and so
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: that is going to need to be certain timings. You know,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: it's going to have to be on the waxing moon.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: It's going to do an appropriate day and how so
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I've got to tell him that accordingly, and then likewise
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: the consecration times. I'm not doing so much conservation since
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: she was born because I don't have the time to
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: do a seven day purification prep or working with a
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: new spirit. So the stuff I've done has just been
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: with spirits I have familiarity with having worked before, but
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: I can get away with three days of purification or
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: with spirits I have packed with wore I don't need
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: to do any and I can just ask them because
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: I've been pacted with them for a very long time.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of where my practice is at. I mean,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: in the past when I started there turs a day
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: every day for the first seven years, and then it
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: became just trying different things out like I did. For example,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: I was working through Crowding's Magic, so I did leave
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: a rashevelle helos for three months as a daily practice
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: where you do the ha durations of the sun at
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: the four quarters of the day, and actually doing the
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: librastarty from that as a moment practice has what really
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: got me into doing devotional stuff, and over the year
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: has been a lot of I mean to do three
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: months Shiva or you know, three months for Goddess mart
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: what have you. I did quite a lot of work
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: with Indian particularly Karli and Shiva, and my first wife
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: was half Indian and very into those sort of those derties,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: so I ended up doing a lot of things with her.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: And back then daily yoga was part of my practice,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: for example, like half half an hour or so a
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: day of daily. Over these days, I do tai chi,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: so I kind of see that as daily practice as well,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: because that's energetic work, and you know, I love tai chi.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: You know, it's that sort of energy flow it gives you.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: It's really invigorating and helps. I think it's just with
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: general health as well. But to me, there's a very
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: spiritual component to this, being in yourself and in the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: moment and the flow of tai chi. So that's really
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: where my practice has shifted, depending on circumstances a lot.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: So I kind of hope that answers the question. But
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: in the past it was much more lots of lots
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: of daily stuff, lots lots of lots because I had
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: the time. You know, now that's sixty and with a
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: young child, I don't have time. So I just do
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: the simplest stuff that keeps it ticking over and then
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: when I need to or do something accordingly.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 8: Do you ever find that some spirits are archetype are
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 8: harder for you to access than others, Like maybe you're
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 8: naturally you naturally connect to some easier than others.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: There are some that I've never really some that I've
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: worked with far less than others, just I mean possibly
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: because of the circumstances not having needed to. For example,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: I've never worked with Venusian spirits for myself, but I
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: have done work with Venusian spirits for other people, for
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: things like fertility for somebody wanting to have a child,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: for example. I've not really work that much with Marshall spirits,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: although I say that, but then I have a Marshall
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: spirit pacted to me that you know, offered their services
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: many years back, so I have one on tap, but
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I don't really work with them that much. There are
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: some I think it has been by probably more by
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: affinity like that. I've worked mainly with solar, Jubytarian, mercurial,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: and lunar spirits. Those are the four where and I
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: suppose after that would then come satur and then Mars
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: and Venus at the bottom. I mean, I'm a Leo
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: and I have a very balanced charting the sense of
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: equal equal elements, and it's very mercury have its strong
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: mercury influence in my chart. So the some mercury thing
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: isn't really a surprise. What kind of emily most.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 8: So that's why you're drawn to the psychopomps.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, it would make sense, but I do have a lot,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of strong influence in my heart, very much.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 5: David would you consider the issue This is a fall
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 5: up to Error's question, would you consider the issue to
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 5: have a mercurial sensibility or correspondence in your opinion? I
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: know there's a vast category of them, and they appear
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: at different places and all of that, But in general,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 5: maybe you could.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Say, Oh, I think it's going to depend on the issue,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: because I mean, that's every issue. You know. It's like
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: you can have, like a whole load of people have issue.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Every man is different. It's like a class of issues
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: share a lot of qualities. I think, certainly some of
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: the issues are very mercurial. I don't know if i'd
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: be able to say that they all were. Definitely some
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: issues I think are very mercurial in the same way
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: that you know some of the Papa Jura's are very venusian.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 8: I have another question, what has been some of your
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 8: goals practicing magic? And maybe you've had multiple throughout the years.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a big one.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, person.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: Actually, when I took my magic cloth at fourteen, I
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: about I was going to dedicate my life to the
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: pursuit of magic, and as time went by, I decided
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to try and propagate as much as
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: possible good practice to the best of my understanding and ability,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: which then resulted in me running groups and writing books
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: and things. And I was very influenced by the idea
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: of magic as the great work. But it's the work
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: of making yourself. For me, it's the work of making
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: yourself and through yourself, humanity great. I see has been
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: some next evolutionary step. The next step has to be
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: a mental spiritual evolution for humanity. Physical is too slow,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: and I mean so the proliferation of magic and encouraging
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: people to practice magic is the necessary goal. It's like
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: to evolve yourself and make yourself the best you can be,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: and also do everything you can to encourage those around
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: you to emanate that to make as many other people
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: the best they can be as well. It's like one
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: hundred monkeys principle. You know, enough people need to rise
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: to take everybody else with them. So for me, that's
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: kind of the goal of magic, is to try and
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: evolve the whole of humanity to a more positive state.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of been my ongoing thing really,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: and I try to do my part to that boat.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: As I say, putting it out what I think is
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: useful to the best of my ability at the time,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: and updating it as I go if I've found new
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: and better ways, because you know, the practice I do
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: now is better than it was a year ago. We
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: always have to be flexible, and you know, if something's good,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: that's wonderful, but if you can make it even better,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: that's even more wonderful. You know, we always have to
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: be open to change and have that fluidity. And that's
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: something I've noticed with magicians would be practicing for decades,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: is you might think they'd get really set in their ways,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: but the ones I know actually become more fluid and
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: flexible in their ways as they get older because they
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: understand this and they always want to do the things
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: the best they can. So that's in my books with
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Claver Spiritum, there's actually some changes in there from Clavers
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: and telity entiargm the previous book because the work that
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: I did afterwards and what I got from the spirit
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: sized working books like, well, that's really good, but you
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: can do this and have to make it even better.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: So you know that the second book really builds on
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: the first. It supersedes a couple of bits of it,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: but most of it is still still you know, totally
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: the way I would do it. There's just a couple
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: of changes, like I do it slightly. I do a
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: different magic circle now to the one I used to use,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: for example. So yeah, magic some people, it's not a
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: popular attitude. But me, magic is a service path. It's
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: about trying to improve you know, a lot of humanity
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: as a collective, which is why for me, another really
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: good indicator of people's magical practice and development is the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: level of compassion that you see in their lives, because
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: with that is absolutely essential demonstrator that people are really
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: understanding and living magic, because the more you do it,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: the more compassion you have for everything, for life in
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: general and also for spirits including the dead. You know,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: it's the understand I think of the interconnectedness of everything
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: that comes and the desire for that to or be progressing.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: When I ask something to imagine.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: Yes, sorry, Niica David, that's really interesting that you say
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: that about the sort of the increase of awareness of
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: the karma connections that we have to place and spirit
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 5: and also each other, especially if you consider, like in
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 5: contemporary Cabala, the hessetic framework, like the preference to has said,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 5: like looking to infinite loving kindness obviously in Buddhism in general,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 5: not just Tantra, but we do have this idea of
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: body cheetah framework. So it does seem like a I'm
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 5: not a perennialist. I'm an actualist, but I'm going to
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: use perennial It seems like a perennial idea that this
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 5: by sort of using magic alongside these kinds of more
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 5: we'll say, higher conscious ways of thinking or being in
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 5: the world, you actually become more aware of the karmic
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 5: implications of your your own life, yourself, your magical practice,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 5: as well as your relationship to sort of like the
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: spirits of the land in place. Sorry, I know that
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 5: was more of a rampant in question, but I just
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 5: it's very profound that you say that, because it's something
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: that like I think about as well, and so to
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: hear someone else of your caliber say that, it just
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 5: makes you feel edified in that. Okay, we're all kind
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 5: of seeing the same conclusion.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you become more sensitive to just the
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: whole subtle weap of things around you and how you
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: can impact that even to the extensive, Like you know,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: the words that you say, you know, the grid was
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: a very big example of not swearing, because it's like
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: not prevailing your breath, and that's you know, it can
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: be hard. Let's say somebody cuts you up in the car,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: can we hear not to swear at them? It's a
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: good example of just even the little things, we need
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: to be aware of the impact of the little things
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: that we do. So, yeah, I totally agree.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: And on how subtle of a level can we interact
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: and react in order to encourage the betterment, like minimum input,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: maximum output holistically, Yeah, I like that mid input maximum
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: still with intent.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, if you don't mind, I mean, I know
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: we've been going on for a while, but maybe if
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: you don't mind spending, will just spend a few minutes
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: at least. Uh, your last two books, what was the reasoning?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Almost kind of like I guess what I was asking
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: you earlier about the planetary and element elemental magic? What
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: is it about? Like what made you put these books out?
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: Like what do you think you have to offer on
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: that that isn't out there now?
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: Okay? Where after I'd written the Grim World Cyclopedia, Steven
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: Skinner and I were asked to do at presentations for
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: this Italian group, the self of Society. I've got quite
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: a few lectures and things for them now said we're
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: going to be doing this weekend and you know we
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: want to do conjuration at it. We want to get
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: everyone in groups to do conjuration. And I what can
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: you guys help? So Stephen I talked and we said
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: we think we should do the intelligences as a good starter.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: You know what days are going to go. It's going
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: to be on a Sunday, great, and work with solo
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: intelligence netkil Scene said, okay, I'll do the fear, you
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: do the practice. So so so fine, and he went
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: before me, and then I was doing so I start
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: preparing stuff and then I read a review that Jason
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Miller wrote about my book Primal Encyclopedia, and he made
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: a comment about my chapter or practice as I put
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: in there, and said this is a voice that we
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: don't hear often enough ranking the contract and they got
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: me thinking I should write more practical stuff. And then
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: I thought, I did this booklet fears back on the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: conjurations and the planet for intelligences from an old sort
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: of text. But I just gave the intelligence and I've
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: been saying to people for years and years, intelligences are
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: a great place to start now for myself. But hang on,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: I'm putting the stuff together now to explain to people
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: how to do it. And there's nowhere out there that
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: tells you. It's just there's the conjuration without telling you
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: what circle should do, is what tools, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: I need to write a book that's like a complete manual,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: because virtually none of the grim Wars are complete manuals.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: They're like piecemeal. They're like bits that the person wanted
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: to record. I need to record the spirit catalog, or
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: I want to record these magic circles or these conjurations.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: They're not complete, then there's lots of stuff missing. You
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: can never assume that a grim War, part of someone
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: that's sum a sacred magic a which eight hundred page
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: is huge, and it's his whole system were oven together,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: is a complete practice, you know, Like I see people saying, oh,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: the ARB tells the easiest because you don't need tools. No,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: just because it doesn't say the tools are there, it
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you don't do it. It's taken as read
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: that you would use no to use those tools, so know,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: to have a magic circle of al you know, it's
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: not they're implied if that would be known to the
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: person reading it. So I thought, well, people are coming
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: to it, it's not going to be known. So I
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: need to put together everything that you would need to
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: know someone who's coming who's never worked a conduration, and
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: everything in this book and clavers, intelity and tim that
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: you need to know. So all about the timings that
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: all the consecrations is what you need to have, How
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: you consecrate it, when you consecrate it, what you need
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: to do in the build up time, how you deal
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: with the purification, adding in the things that are modern
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: as well being relevant. So in those days, obviously there
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: was no internet and stuff. So now as well as
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: you're passing having I call the electronic fast, you know
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: that you don't go online, you don't do gaming, you
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: don't do TikTok or YouTube or anything during that time
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: because you're keeping your mind focused on the conjuration, giving
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: the whole actual sequence of the conjuration with description of
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: what's going on, putting it all together in one manual
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: for people. Because there's nothing really like that that I
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: was aware of. So that was what inspired me to
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: put cloths into our gentower room. And then as soon
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: as I've finished and sent it off to Hadium, you know,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: to the publishers, hoor right, then I get because spirits
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: don't keep office hours or plantry hours, they'll contact you
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: whenever they want. That's good job. But now you need
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: to do more. You know this book you wrote, Yeah,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: that's going to be a trilogy. It's going to be
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: three of them. Okay, right, you need to look at
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: this and this. So then I got nudged about the
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: winds and the shakina and started going down the rabbit
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: holes those and doing the practices and so then that
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: sort of turned into claver Spiritum and ways to enhance
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: the practice. So it's like it builds on once in
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Clovis Inteurgentar. And by adding in the winds and shakina
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: and adding in a few extra bits that didn't go in,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: I could have put a consecrations for example, boots, and
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: mentioned found out that does talking some grims about wearing underwear,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: because I've always just started I robe with nothing under it,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: but no, if you you can actually have consecrated underwear
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: and other stuff under there, particularly if you're outdoors in
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: the cold. Nice to know, you know, anything thermal long
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: John's consecrate them, you can wear them. So just it's
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: that thing of just trying to build on all the
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: experience I have over the decades of you know, forty
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: four years of conjuration and all the little handy hints
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: and things or any mistakes that I've made. I'm trying
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: to put all that information in for people so that
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: they've got my template that has worked for me, which
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: they can use as much or as little of as
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: they want, with me explaining why everything is done, how
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: it's done, etc. That was what inspired me to do
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: the Club's books, and there will be a third one
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: in a couple of years, two or three years, but
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: I've got other books after write first. But yeah, it
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: was to put out a nuts and bolts manual of
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: everything that you need to know for doing counturation. Focus
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: in the first book entirely on the intelligence. Is the
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: second one. I give the conjurations for the Olympic Spirits
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: and the demon Bishops. I put the demon Bishops in
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: because they've not been worked with much. They're really interesting
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: and they're specifically attributed to the four elements, one demon
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: to bishop, to each alban and so I wanted to
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: bring more of that in as well, because of the
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: lack of attention to the elements what tedition, which was
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: something I feel needs to be a bit more bought.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: Because there's a huge amount of planetary stuff in the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: grim Was, but you don't see that much elemental because
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: the elemental stuff is the foundations that even the planets
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: are built on. I wanted to bring a bit more
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: of the elemental aspect into in that second one in
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Clave Spiritum. So that's kind of what inspired me to
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: do that, and adding in all sorts of really interesting stuff.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: You know, the things that I've developed aren't written in
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: the grim Was, but I found work really well, like
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: the amount of visualization I brought in for the consecrations
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And interestingly, I did find the reference in
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: Simicycramantic came one of the bits hasn't been published yet,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: which kind of hints at that they might have been
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: using visualization. So maybe I'm not that's I'm not saying
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: this is definite, but it's possible that again, so I'm
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: bringing back something that was a part of it. That's
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: just really not been written about. I don't know. But
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: either way, if you've got effective tools that mesh well
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: with what you've got, why not use them but enhance
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: your practice? And so you know, for me, visualization is
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: very much something that does add to that. So you know,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: I put it all in explained it where everything comes from,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: which grim was, the bits I've merged into a template,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: or which bits I have created based on my experience.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: Is also full of lots of thanks to other people
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: whose practices have inspired or encouraged me, or I've taken
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: bits from. I always credit people because that's all the
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: things I love in the grimworld. Addition, is there so
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: much positivity and people build on each other's work and
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: acknowledge each other's work rather than you know, like the
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: whole it's all about me. Think, No, we're all benefiting.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: Somebody else does good work, we all benefit from it,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: and that's how it should be. In magic, you know
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: that we benefit from what other people do. We're not
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: here to tear anyone down. We're not in competition with anybody.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: We're all just trying to you know, rise and evolve.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: I like how you had mentioned I guess like the
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: orbital before you were like saying like, I guess people
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: thought like I don't need anything for this.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I when I was doing a lot of
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: ritual work, I would typically work with like Egyptian deities,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: and I would normally attribute them to like either planetary
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: magic when working with them, or the cabalistic you know,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: the spheres and like on the tree. And when I
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: came across the arbitel and start, I worked.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: With it for a bit.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: I just assumed that it was to be brought over
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: to now instead of Hathorm invoking Hageth or whatever. I
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: think that might be the right one for Venus. I
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: just thought it was kind of switching over, but I
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: thought I still needed all that other stuff friar. I
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: never looked at it as like, oh, I just you know,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: I guess we're gonna sit here and do a mantra
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: and that's it. Like I just thought it was it's
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: kind of funny had you said that. I just never
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: even looked at it being that basic.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people, young people coming in now
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: the generation seemed then it's not written, it's not there.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, what uh? When you were mentioning stuff with the
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: grim war work, before and you're saying like maybe stuff
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: left out. Obviously, maybe certain practices wouldn't be in there
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: because they didn't exist prior. There's a different type of
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: maybe school of thought. But like if you had if
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: somebody was doing grim war work, and let's say part
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: of their daily practice was doing certain breath work and
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: maybe chocraate work or meditation, would you say that's an
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: okay thing to like bring into the ritual to work
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: in or no, because it's not in there. Something as
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: basic as that. I'm not just saying like adding actually
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: extra words are totally different ritual, but like breath work,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: visualization and breathe, you know, meditation.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: I would I would say absolutely. I actually say that
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: if someone particularly if there's more than one of you,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: if you've got somebody in the scribe, or if you're
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: doing it solo, a brief little meditational visualization thing before
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: engaging with the spirit is a very beneficial thing to
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: have in there. And also, you know, before you do
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: the conjuration, if energetic work, so you're just feeling in
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: the most balanced you can be. Absolutely, you know, why
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: Nice anybody have any questions or comments.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 5: Or anything, I'll do one last one. Okay, I'm sorry guys,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: Thank you Nick, and thank you David. So I have
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 5: so many, honestly, David written, but I'll have to wait
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 5: until the next time. But I think I want to
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 5: talk about something you just brought up, like the prevalence
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 5: of Sola scripture, sort of that framework of looking at
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 5: things very shallowly as the text is the text and
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 5: it means what it means, and also what you have
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 5: called I think anglocentric in past interviews. I sort of
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 5: appraisal of the Wisdom text through that sort of more
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 5: maybe Protestant or Anglican lens and saying, okay, it begins
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 5: and ends here, but now it's become more expansive. In
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 5: Buddhist studies, we call it Protestant presupposition, this idea that
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 5: you can only read the Wisdom texts as they are,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 5: rather than acknowledge the inner outer secret or tikini language
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 5: or the various other sort of commentaries and metaphysics that
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 5: actually are deeply involved in it. Would you say that
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 5: that is also how we should try and appraise or
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 5: read Western wisdom sciences through this more broad lens of
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 5: looking at deeper and secret meanings and I know this
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 5: ties in with your ideas of blinds and how much
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 5: certain authors put in or don't put in, or may
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 5: mislead you into certain conclusions or understandings.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean if I hadn't been looking at the
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: phrasing and how you can mean it with the Stikina stuff,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't have hit me and I got here we
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: are we talking about, you know, a circle of fire
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: around the throne, which is classic Shakina imagery, or here
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, you know, wisdom being feminine again. You
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: have Shaquina. There's all these things. I'm going that's Shaquina,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: that's Chequina, that's you Keen. The first breath, that's just Shaquina,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: the first breath in Adam. And it's just like the same.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: The epithets and titles and all these things have a reason,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, because they they're like simple layers. They open
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: stuff up for us, and it's so important. They say,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: like we know, with these texts, not just read it
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: at surface level. I mean, sure you'll get something out
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: of it surface level, but when you start looking beyond that,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: then it's like that's where you're going to find the goal.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: So that's where you're going to like, you know, the
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: wealth that's going to sort of give you those insights.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: So it's flashes and sparks.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 7: Of ah.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: That then help you move on your way. So yeah,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: I totally think that people do need to read them
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: with that sort of level of perception too. Meditating on
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: books on the places, I think it's a great way
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: to do it. It's like, you know, to read like
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: a paragraph in a book like that and then meditate
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: and see what comes to you. Let you when really
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: play with it and process it, you know, look just
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: zoom through a chapter and think you're going to gain
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: lots of insight. You know. It's when I was actually
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: meditating that it suddenly hit me, hang on, it's like
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: coming in my mind because I was doing like you know,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: plat void empty and seeing what came with it was empty,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: and then it was like that phrase popped in and
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: that phase dropped in, and I'm seeing a pattern here,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: and then I would have picked them and looking them
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm seeing that pattern because I'm
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: being product to see that pattern or I'm inspiring myself
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: or whatever it might be that we we have to Yeah,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: so much of back to that think, you know, only
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: a seventieth light spectrum is visible to us, So much
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: of the spectrum is invisible. But we can be aware
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: of it, we can feel it, we can sense it,
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: and we have to apply that. I think when we're
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: when we're reading, Yeah, we're only getting the top of
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: the spectrum when we just read it in that normal way.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: We have to digest it and sort and see what
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: else we can get from it.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: And I think also when you get into that, it's
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: those with guys to see in. Those are ears to hear.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: As you're going through this information through the course of
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 3: your lifetime, you're learning more and more and gaining a
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: deeper sense of what these realities are. And as you
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: do that, your sense of reality becomes deeper and deeper
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: and deeper than you know as you gain wisdom, which is.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: One of the arguments for going back and rereading books
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: that made an impact on you, because you get so
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: much more from them next time round. Again, Oh, I
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: didn't realize that.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: Oh well, God, yes, thank you very much. Did anybody
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: else have any questions before we start to wrap it up? David,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: was there anything that you would like to say or
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: anything about your stuff before we close it up here.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe we didn't get to.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've just really been enjoying the conversation seeing where
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: it flowed. It's been great. We don't I've already mentioned
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: about this stuff I'm doing. I do an online conjuration
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: course which is six consecutives Sundays I run twice a year.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: It's currently running at the moment, it's halfway through, so
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: the next one will be in probably around May or
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: May time, so if people are interested, that goes up
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: on Hadian, goes through Haydian, and I always like advertise
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: that's sort of each time has sort of grown a
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: little bit from the sense of any new insights or things.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: Like the first run of it was about all the
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: turf clubs Intelligent Tower, but now it has all the
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: Tearful class as Spirit them as well. One of the
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: two books I'm currently working on is another practical grim
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: War book, so by the end of next year or
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: probably that will probably get incorporated as well. So yeah,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I'm just really excited with the the
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: research and stuff I'm doing the Monks. I'm also doing
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: like a research grim War book that's going to push
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: a few things back and reveal some more bits that
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: weren't known before. So that's some fun rabbit holes of
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: going down as well.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Uh, do you want to let everybody know where
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: they can like find you online or get in contact
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: with you or whatever.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: I mean. My my website is the very unoriginable David
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: Rank dot com. So it's an easy way to contact
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: me as a message through the website if people want to.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: I try and reply within a day or two to
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: people with the message week I do get a lot
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: of people contact me through that. From there, I'm happy
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: to chat to people. Is It's been very fruitful for me,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: you know some of the I love getting questions that
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: make me think about stuff, you know. Like one of
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: the things that pushed me in one of the chaps
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: I wrote in Clive Spirit and was about eighteen months ago,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: a guy messaged me and said, I'm in a wheelchair,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: I have my ald Serrubral Pulsey. I'm about to do
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: my first poetic conjuration. I've got a couple of assistants.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: Can you any recommendations you have made for how to
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: amend the ritual to for me? So I wrote them
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: a long email of suggestions of things ways he might
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: rate it and say, maybe the person could do this
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: bit and you don't have to earn, but you should
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: be doing as much of it as you can still.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: And that made me think I need to put a
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: chapter in the book about conjuring with physical or sensory impairment,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: and that needs to be highlighted because it's something that
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: gets talked about a little bit, but not nearly enough.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: You know, It's kind of becomes like an invisible thing
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: that's unconscious by us because most of us don't have
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: those issues ourselves. We don't think about being inclusive to
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: people who do. And so that that email has resulted,
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: like in the whole exchange between us and me writing
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: a bit from the book, and I contacted cratively who
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: you know who's done a lot of talks about work
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: with physical disability, and asks him to read through it
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: to make sure that I wasn't being at all offensive
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: or inappropriate in the worst phrase, and things. I was
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: getting things over in a good manner. And that's just
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: one example. I have a lot of people write and
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: you get that thing. It's always a two way thing.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: It's like with the classes, you know, I always come
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: away with like new ideas and insights from the things
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: that people say. You know, anyone who's teaching should always
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: be being taught by the people they're teaching as well.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: You know, if you're doing it right, you learn from
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: the process. And that's why I love giving workshops and
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: lectures and stuff, because I get so much from it.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: Because everyone has a unique perspective. You never know what
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: they're going to bring to it and what they're going
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: to tell you. That's another reason why there's so many
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: credits in my books is because somebody's asked me questions
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: I've got. Oh, yeah, that's it needs to be addressed.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: When people don't talk about that. It's like somebody asked
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: me on one of the courses and said, so what
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: do you do if you want to deconsecrate a pentacle? Oh?
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: That needs to go in there. I've not seen anyone
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: writing about that. So you've made a pact with a
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: spirit and then some years later you want to you
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: want to end the pact? Is fulfilled this purpose? How
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: do you deal with that? Damn, that's another really important thing.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: I need to Let's talk about that. Let's write about that.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: So you know, so many people often it can be
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: the simplest questions by people who wouldn't have much experience.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: They're like, they almost feel awkward about asking the question.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: But those questions are often the ones that hit the
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: hardest because they're the things that people don't address. It's
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: the things that seem obvious that don't get talked about,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: and the things that are obvious and don't get talked
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: about are often the most important things that need to
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: be talked about because they're the things where you trip up.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: And that's a lot of that's been one of the
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: big things in those Clavers books is about trying to
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: address a lot, you know, things like that so that
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: people don't trip up because it's already addressed in the
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: way I've written about it.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: I'm easy.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess uh, David, Yeah, we already. Let
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: everybody know where they can pretty much fund you. Yeah,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: that's about it. Everybody else, I guess real quick if
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: you don't mind erro So, let everybody know where they
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: can find your stuff.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 8: You can find me on YouTube at Arrows Up and
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 8: you can find me on Twitter at arrows to Ethos.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 8: This was great. Thanks for coming on, David.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Eric. You asked some questions that
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask, So thank you. I appreciated
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: this for me to do awesome. Uh jit, my man,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: what is going on? So please boss mister ninety three,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. I appreciate it. Obviously.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: Of course, David like, thank you very very much, very much.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 5: I was honored, and it's a little humbled to beyond
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 5: the panel with you. But I I, you know, I
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: want to show you that I know a couple of things,
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 5: even though I'm not a ceremonial magician. So it was
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 5: an amazing conversation. And I and I want to learn
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 5: how to deconsecrate a pentacle. Not that I've done that
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 5: or made a spirit pact, but I still would like
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 5: to know how to do it because I do know
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 5: how to consecrate the greater keys. So and so I'll
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 5: just say this, thank you. Check out brother Matt, check
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 5: out his stuff. Obviously he's my coast and the Gray
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 5: Lodge and I have an episode dropping on my show
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 5: Threshold Saints with Gregory Peters, who just wrote the book
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 5: New A on contra with our other co host on
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 5: The Gray Lodge, Solar Exile, who I believe was in
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 5: the chat a little earlier and so look forward to that.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 5: And of course love is cause of knowledge and with
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 5: the daughter, let's fucking go. Thank you guys so much,
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 5: appreciate it.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you man, thank you. I'm really glad you good
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: to make it for sure. And the head is Joe.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 4: You muted.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 6: How you doing, everybody? So you can find me doing
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 6: a show called Alphony Mondays with Arrows on Monday, and
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 6: you can find me also doing seven seven seven with
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 6: Nick on Tuesdays. I forgot that one the first time.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 6: So we're gonna be going through the Kabbala of Alice
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 6: Chapelli and also on theays, I've got your emails, so
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 6: send them to Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 6: and I'll read your esoteric slash occult experiences on the air,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 6: which David, if you want to send me some mail,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 6: that would be amazing.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly so.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 6: Also I've got the trialogues with Ethan Indigo and Ricardo tomorrow,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 6: so check those out.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much sir for making it.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: And Matt, Sir, does everybody know what they can find
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: all your amazing stuff?
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 7: Thanks a lot everyone, David especially obviously very nice to
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 7: I've met you personally, and I mean, if you happen
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 7: to go at the I don't know if they're going
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 7: to do another one next year to so for society
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 7: they're going to do another convention, but it would be
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 7: really nice.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I had a lot of fun.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 7: You guys can find me again on all social medias
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 7: with the handle at at more nineteen.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: Also my website Kabala dot com.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 3: That's k A A b A l a h dot com.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: So thanks a lot, thank you for coming on and
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: it's been not at least Robbie.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: Mark, Hey, thanks for having me on. Nick, and I
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: want to say David, it was a pleasure speaking to
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: you today. Great conversation and it's always great to see
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 3: to the old faces and some new faces. And if
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 3: anybody wants to check out my stuff, from my artwork
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: that I do, to my metamind cast and everything in between,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: you can go to my link tree which is link
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: tree r M A r X and that'll pull up everything.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 3: And yeah, this is a great time.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks thank you Robbie for making it. And again, David,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for coming on the show again.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: It was like really like surreal for me to actually
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: be able to have a conversation for you again. Not
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: to fanboy you too much, but it's just wild knowing
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: that like there was stuff of yours that I incorporated
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: into my ritual work and that helped me grow ritually,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: like the Skuys in front of me now and I
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: get to talk to him, So it was really amazing.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you everybody else who
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: came on the show and everybody in the chat. I
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and that's we go live or appreciate
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: everybody's questions, whatever they got to add, and that is
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: the end of another Cult Rejects and until the next one,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: everybody be well later.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you,