Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Jay Shapiro on Living Abroad, Building an Expedition Camper, and Family Philanthropy

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Jay Shapiro on Living Abroad, Building an Expedition Camper, and Family Philanthropy · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Jay Shapiro.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Now I have known Jay for coming on twenty years.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: He's one of the very early members of the Expedition Portal.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: He built an extraordinary overland vehicle called the Eco Roamer,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: which has seen millions of reads on the Expedition Portal
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: community forum. He has also lived around the world, including
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a decade in Singapore, and now he's coming up on
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: many years here in Nairobi, Kenya. Jay was born in
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Canada and he met his wife, Alice at a later
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: date and then had two children along the way. So
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: during this interview, we talk about Jay's passion for living
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: around the world, for traveling with his kids, for building
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: unique overland vehicles, and for integrating new technologies or identifying
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: emerging opportunities within technology throughout that entire process. So we
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: have a very wide ranging conversation, but some really inspirational
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: stuff around the work that they do with others, how
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  Speaker 1: they help improve conservation and other efforts within the continent
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: of Africa, but also how they really stay connected as
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: a family and have those experiences that are so critical
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  Speaker 1: to a life well lived.
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  Speaker 2: So please enjoy my wide ranging conversation with Jay Shapiro.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Well, Jay, thank you so much for being on the
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  Speaker 1: podcast today. But before we dig into the amazing life
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: of yourself and your family, talk about where we're sitting
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  Speaker 1: and recording this podcast right now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great to have you here, Scott. So we
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  Speaker 3: are in the Nairobi Game Development Center, which is a
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  Speaker 3: six thousand square foot community coworking space that we built
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  Speaker 3: in the heart of Kenya in Africa as a place
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  Speaker 3: to try and foster the young creative talent that's coming
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  Speaker 3: up in the country and create a game development industry.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Well, and one of the things that you talked about
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: around the game development, which I want to touch on later,
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  Speaker 1: is that a lot of these games are also serving
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  Speaker 1: to empower conservation and conservation efforts within the continent. So
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I'd like to talk about that a little bit later.
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  Speaker 1: But is that Do I understand that correctly? That's one
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  Speaker 1: of the missions organization.
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  Speaker 3: So my studio is called the USIKU Games here in Kenya,
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  Speaker 3: and we're a social impact game developer, So everything that
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  Speaker 3: we make is in some way either educational or have
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  Speaker 3: a behavior change element built into it, whether that's for healthcare,
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  Speaker 3: climate change, wildlife conservation, all kinds of topics that we've
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  Speaker 3: done over the years.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you have you and your family have fallen
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: in love with Kenya and I'm beginning to understand.
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  Speaker 2: A little bit of why.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: But what about Africa and Kenya in particular made you
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: want to make this kind of your of your forever homes.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. We actually came to East Africa twenty
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  Speaker 3: three years ago, Alice and I on our honeymoon in
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  Speaker 3: any way, realizing that that we would someday be bouncing
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  Speaker 3: around in land rovers in the same roads. But yeah,
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  Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, we were living in New York. We decided
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: it was time to leave the US. We had lived
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  Speaker 3: in Asia for more than a decade before that and
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: wanted to pick where where to go, and so we
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: took the kids out of school, We packed a backpack
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  Speaker 3: each and we spent a year and a half going
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  Speaker 3: around the world to different locations trying to figure out
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  Speaker 3: where our next forever home would be, knowing that we
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: were going to spend at least ten years there. And
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  Speaker 3: we did a month in Mexico and Guancato. We did
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  Speaker 3: a month in Italy, we did a month in India,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: we did a month here, we did a couple months
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  Speaker 3: in Canada, and honestly instantly fell in love with Nirobi.
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  Speaker 3: It's just it was such an amazing energy and optimism
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  Speaker 3: here that we knew this was the place that we
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: wanted to be for the next ten years.
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  Speaker 1: That's what I'm noticing is the fact that there is
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  Speaker 1: like a heartbeat to this place that feels like the
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  Speaker 1: heartbeat of Africa in ways that South Africa doesn't feel.
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  Speaker 2: It's not to take anything away from.
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  Speaker 1: South Africa, because I love I love that country too,
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  Speaker 1: but there's something.
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  Speaker 2: So unique about Nairobi and the.
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  Speaker 1: Types of businesses like yours, where or the not for
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  Speaker 1: profits that that Alison, you have spent so much time
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  Speaker 1: working on to be able to support conservation and support
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  Speaker 1: growth economic development within Africa. So I feel that here
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  Speaker 1: in Nairobi for sure.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, I lived in Singapore in the mid
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: nineties and Nairobi to me today feels like Singapore did that.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: And yeah, absolutely you can tell that it's it's just
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  Speaker 3: starting that boom and so as an entrepreneur, for me,
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  Speaker 3: that's intoxicating. Yeah, but even just anthropologically to be here
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  Speaker 3: in witness this community go through that transformation is fascinating.
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  Speaker 1: Well, this is where humanity came from, so why shouldn't
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  Speaker 1: it be where the next chapter of the future originates.
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  Speaker 2: I think that.
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  Speaker 1: Africa is a totally appropriate place in my mind, because
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  Speaker 1: there's so much youth here, there's so much optimism, there's
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  Speaker 1: so many opportunities, I believe in the continent of Africa.
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  Speaker 1: So it's incredible to see that all unfold. So you
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  Speaker 1: just mentioned about the fact that and now I'm very intrigued.
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  Speaker 1: You mentioned about the fact that you and how many
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  Speaker 1: you have?
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  Speaker 2: Two kids?
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  Speaker 3: Two kids?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
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  Speaker 1: You mentioned that you guys took a year and a
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  Speaker 1: half and a backpack each. So now we're going to
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  Speaker 1: get into the large overland truck that you built. So
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: talk about going from something on the bigger end of
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  Speaker 1: the scale to as simple a travel. What motivated you
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  Speaker 1: to make that decision as a family?
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  Speaker 3: So, I mean, I think why you and I are
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  Speaker 3: good friends is this dedication to the realization that overland
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  Speaker 3: travel is not about the places, It's about the experiences, right,
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  Speaker 3: and it's not about the vehicle, right. True, And so
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  Speaker 3: I've done I started overlanding when I was twenty one.
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  Speaker 3: Was my first big trip. We circumnavigated around in North
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  Speaker 3: America in an old Volkswagen with a German little camp
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  Speaker 3: tourist trailer. Was awesome. I loved it. Right. I've done
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  Speaker 3: it on BMWGS bikes, We've done it in the Ecooma,
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  Speaker 3: We've done it in a couple of Prados, and we
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  Speaker 3: decided to do it with a backpack, you know, old
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  Speaker 3: fashion style. In fact, Alice and Maya in March are
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  Speaker 3: taking the urail around Europe, so like, it kind of
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  Speaker 3: doesn't matter. What's important is the people that you meet
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  Speaker 3: and being open to those experiences.
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  Speaker 1: So, Jay, now these were were these big backpacks? Were
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: they kind of did you guys find that you got
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  Speaker 1: rid of a bunch of stuff along.
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  Speaker 3: The way, like hiking camp backpacks?
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's amazing.
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  Speaker 3: They look the kids were tent sixteen, they were eleven
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  Speaker 3: and seven and ahead at the time, so they weren't huge.
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  Speaker 3: I certainly carried a heavier one than they did.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, Jay, that's incredible man.
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  Speaker 1: So like and so you decided that we're going to
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  Speaker 1: simplify our life down to the contents of four bags. Essentially,
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  Speaker 1: And how did you decide where you were going to
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  Speaker 1: first go?
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  Speaker 2: Did everybody get to pick?
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  Speaker 1: Did like Alice picked one and then you picked one
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  Speaker 1: and then when your kids picked the next one?
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  Speaker 2: So how did that work?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I think you know me well enough to
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  Speaker 3: know that based them fully say that on the podcast.
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  Speaker 3: Uh you know, so like I'd like to say that
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  Speaker 3: it was this big, grand plan and we had it
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  Speaker 3: all worked out right. But we were in Canada. It
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  Speaker 3: was it was the summer of twenty sixteen, and we
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  Speaker 3: were at my my family has a has a little
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  Speaker 3: cabin in the woods sort of a couple hours north
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  Speaker 3: of Toronto, and we were leaving and we drove out
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  Speaker 3: on the windy country road and we got to the
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  Speaker 3: highway and stupidly, we could have gone any day, anytime,
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  Speaker 3: but it was like the Sunday evening of a long weekend,
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  Speaker 3: and so the traffic was crazy going to Toronto. And
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  Speaker 3: we said, well, like, why would we sit in that
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  Speaker 3: when we have nowhere to go and nothing to do.
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  Speaker 3: Let's turn right instead, And so instead of going south
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  Speaker 3: to Toronto, we went north to Moose Factory and we
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  Speaker 3: drove all the way to Cochrane. Then we took the
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  Speaker 3: train to Moose and e and then we took the
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  Speaker 3: boat across to Moose Factory and we had just an
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  Speaker 3: absolutely amazing time. And we were the only people in
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  Speaker 3: this little lodge where we stayed in the Moose Factory
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  Speaker 3: met going community. It was absolutely amazing. We went to
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: the Hudson Bay and it was fantastic.
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  Speaker 1: The Hudson Bay is way up Oh, it's way up there. Now,
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  Speaker 1: how did you get to Hudson Bay.
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  Speaker 3: It's way up there?
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  Speaker 2: What did you do to do that? Did you drive?
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  Speaker 3: Drive? You drive six hours from where we were to
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  Speaker 3: get to Cochrane. Then you leave your car there because
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  Speaker 3: there's no cars. There's no roads to get from there
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  Speaker 3: to Mussini and so except in the winter where you
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  Speaker 3: can drive on a river right right right, And then
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  Speaker 3: you take a train from Cochrane to Musanie. It's like
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  Speaker 3: four or five hours. And then from Mussini you take
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  Speaker 3: a small ode it looks like a canoe but with
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  Speaker 3: a with outboard on it across to the island of
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  Speaker 3: Moose Factory, which was a fur trading town back in
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  Speaker 3: the back in the day. And it's it's on James Bay.
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  Speaker 3: And what I again, foreshadowing we didn't realize the same
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  Speaker 3: as coming to East Africa, is that my son Kurt
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  Speaker 3: last summer U did what's called the Bay Trip with
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  Speaker 3: a group called Langskip, where they canoed across James Bay.
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  Speaker 3: So it was on that trip when we were taking
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: the train back that we saw this group of very tanned,
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  Speaker 3: very fit, young teenagers and we're like, what the hell
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  Speaker 3: are you guys doing it? Moose Factory. Yeah, And they
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  Speaker 3: told us about this canoe trip that they did, and
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  Speaker 3: Chris said, somebody I'm going to do that, and sure
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  Speaker 3: enough last summer he did. Wow. So then and then
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  Speaker 3: we just kind of went on from there.
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  Speaker 1: You just decided you were going to keep meandering, keep
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: wandering as a family, Like that's just I have to
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: imagine that there are so many people listening.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, even I'm thinking myself, it's like.
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  Speaker 1: I think we get addicted to the convenience of just
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: kind of a nicer car with air conditioning, a house
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: that has all the things that makes we can make
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the coffee we want to make in the morning. But
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the reality is is that why not just make a
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  Speaker 1: right turn?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's probably at this point in the conversation
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: where a lot of people listening are thinking like, oh,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: well they're rich and they could take off a year
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: and a half and all that. Now we were working
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: the entire time. Yeah, right, Alice and I both are
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: running businesses. I had a virtual organization. We had at
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: that time probably about sixty eight people on six continents,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: but all remote, entirely remote, and so I could work
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: from a laptop or my phone anywhere. And this was
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: this was still early days for that. So it wasn't easy.
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  Speaker 3: You know, Zoom wasn't even really around yet.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not much, or at least not a lot of adoption.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was so Skype and there was stuff,
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  Speaker 3: you know, and Alice had a global team, you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: she was doing her nonprofit work. She did global development
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: incubator working in India and here and and that, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: so she flew a lot. And so there was times
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: when she would leave us in said country and and
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: go off somewhere else, or we all went to India
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: because she had a project there, and so we explored
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: villages in India where I guarantee you are not on
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: the tourist path.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: But where did you guys home base out of in India?
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  Speaker 3: So we went all around the country, so so Bangalore
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  Speaker 3: for sure, Delhi, uh Agara, we went to Arisa, we
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: went to Bihar, we went to jar Khan were we
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: were all over.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: You guys have truly, I mean, as long as I've
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: known you, Jay, you guys have been probably the best
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: that I know of definition of a global citizen. And
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: what you're doing in Kenya and the things that I've
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: seen you do other places are certainly a reflection of that.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: When you when you think of yourself in those terms,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: what do you think has changed most about you because
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of the fact that you have like unmoored yourself from
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a place to be a member of many places. What
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: do you think has changed changed you as a person
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: so much?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: From that?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it sounds really stupid, but I think
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  Speaker 3: the biggest realization for me, and I think a lot
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: of Overlanders go through this, is the realization that anywhere
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: you go there's people with kids and families making a living,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: you know, and as exotic as it may seem to you,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: right to be somewhere in the andies or whatever total
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: who live there, to them, it's just home.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's literally their commute.
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  Speaker 3: It's literally their commute, and it is not scary, it's
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: not dark, it's not for voting, it's just somebody else's house.
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  Speaker 3: And if you are open to meeting those people and
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: learning from them and exploring, then then there's nowhere scary
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: on this planet.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: There's right, Yeah, there's really not.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, there are maybe a handful of places on
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the planet that are really truly no go zones just
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: because why take the risk. But still there are people
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: there that are doing their daily commute. Sure, for them it's.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Just I mean your experience is in Antarctica and Greenland
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: for sure, Right, But then we've met people who go
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: to Antarctica every summer to work and for them it's
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: their commute, right, and what an amazing place?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Or like when I was at the South Pole and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you realize like, oh, they've got a commissary and they
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: have a basketball you know, they play basketball at lunch
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and stuff. It just it really is important to remember
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that it's not quite the adventure that people had one
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and really that needs to be less
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: and less of the point. The point needs to be
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: how does it change us as people? And how does
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: our behaviors and our interactions help to change the lives
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: of others, and you have really shown an example of that,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that I wanted to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: touch base on. I mean, you and I have known
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: each other since probably at least two thousand and five.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe two thousand and six because you were
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: really early member of Expedition Portal, so we've interacted with
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: each other for a long time. And throughout that process
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I have seen, Alison, you have not for profits that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you're constantly working to give back in and one of
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: them that I think is worth talking about a little
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: bit is the Muskoka Foundation, and that was something it.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Was probably the first real.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Effort that I saw in North America and overlanding towards
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: giving back, and in fact, that was essentially the function
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: of it is, if you're an overlander and you're traveling,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: get a hold of us and we can find connect
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: you with people to give back. So maybe talk a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: little bit about.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: The framework of that organization.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that it's idled now, but I would love
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to know like practical actionable advice for the listener of
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: while they're traveling, how can they give back, how can
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: they make a difference in these countries that they're visiting.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Sure, So Alice and I were overlanding in Southeast Asia.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: We had an old pradu. We were bouncing around in
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: I think Cambodia at the time, and you know, frankly
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: surrounded by poverty in some of the communities that we
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: were in and we wanted to make a difference somehow
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: and volunteer and all of the programs that we found
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: where we could do something, we're like painting a fence
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: or you know, renovating a school or hugging babies. Right,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: And we both have master's degrees or the CEOs like
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: we have value to contribute beyond mending offense, right, And
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: we could not find other than for doctors, you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: doctor the borders, and a couple of engineering programs. But
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: other than that, there was very little in terms of
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: really skills transfer type nonprofits around and so we created
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the Muskoka Foundation, which was then at do Good as
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: you Go dot org. It's still there.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And isn't that Muskoka an Inuit word?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: It's so it's it's not an Inuit, it's it's Native
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Canadian native. Yeah. It's a region in Ontario north of
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: north of Toronto.
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  Speaker 2: And what does it mean.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: That's right, I don't actually believe. I don't know what
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: it means. But it's an air.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's an area. It's a region. I see, it's
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: a region. Okay, I got it. It's a place.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: It's a place, got it. It's where the cabin is.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And uh So we created this nonprofit as a way
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: of helping people who were traveling, whether it was for work,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: going on a business trip or overlanding on a bike
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: or whatever it may be. Sure to have trusted partners
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: in communities on four continents where they could go into
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: either street cab shelters or orphanages or what have you,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: and do skills transfer workshops, teaching what they know, or
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: teaching photography. We had we had kits of cameras that
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: we would send with them doing math lessons or all
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: kinds of stuff.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But what was English was English language one of them.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: English Language was not one of them, because there's a
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: bunch of English teaching programs, it right, And again, we
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: wanted to sort of use the unique skills of the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: individual travelers rather than just sort of base ice kind
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: of sure transfers. And what's interesting is that not only
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: did we vet the communities so that the travelers knew
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: that this was a legitimate place and not someone who's
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: just trying to get volunteerism kind of money. But at
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: the same time, we were vetting the travelers to make
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: sure that we weren't sending somebody risky into a children's.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course environment, of course, right.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: And so we became the trusted partner in that relationship, intermediary.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: We did not charge a penny to anybody, right, We
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: never charged the partners, We never charged the travelers. The
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: whole thing was run for free as really a vetting
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: and information exchange, and it became a network of about
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: five hundred Overlanders who had a desire to do good
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: while they were traveling. And they then started helping each other,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: and that community became fascinating. Right, I had sold my
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: first business, didn't want to give them money to my kids,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: and so we took that money we put into the foundation.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: But that was a finite resource. In the end, we
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: ran for about eight years. We helped, as I said,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: about five hundred travelers, you know, many thousands of youth
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: in different communities. Right. But when we moved here, we
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: realized that we wanted to make a difference on a
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: different scale. And so now Alice with her work that
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: she does in several areas around Africa as well as
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: all across India and in Colombia, she's dealing with communities
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: of millions of people. Right. She does work with the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: World Bank at extreme poverty levels, people less than two
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: dollars a day, and she's currently working on twenty million people. Right,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: that's the scale that she's now credible. For me, building
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the gaming industry across Africa and doing the behavioral change
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: that we're doing, we're creating thousands of jobs across the continent.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: And so for us, the mescal connotation was a fantastic experience.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: We did a lot of good. I think we helped
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of people on both sides of that equation.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: But the reality is it was never scale and we
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: wanted to do more, and so that's why we sort
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: of have left that. The website is still there. There's
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: all kinds of great resources for people they want to find.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Because we're no longer foundation dot org or it's do
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: good as you go, Do Good as you.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Go dot org. That's a great url. Yeah, I want
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: to hold on to that one.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: So if you were to give like the top three
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: things that an overlander that is, like either an organization
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: you'd recommend or things that you've seen be replicatable across
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: multiple continents. What are maybe the top three things that
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: someone can do to make a difference while they're traveling?
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Sure, so I mean a couple of handy rules, right, One,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: never pay Right. There's all kinds of organizations as an
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: industry that has built up around volunteerism. Right, avoid them
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: at all costs. Okay, that's the first thing. Right. The
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: second thing is, in anything that you do, whatever it
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: may be, think about the sustainability of that. Right, what
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: happens the day after you leave?
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Because there's all too many people with great intentions that
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: that leave candies for kids in handing out and get
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: smiles and that's great, But there's no dentistry, there, no
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: tooth threshes or whatever.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Right, And it teaches the kids to run out the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: world absolutely right, which is really dangerous.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's dangerous for the kids. It's bad for the
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: future travelers, it's bad for the teed, it's it's bad
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: in many many ways. Right, So try and think about
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: these unintended consequences and think about how you can create
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: a lasting impact right through doing skills transfer, through teaching,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: through creating something that will last like a school or
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: building housing or that kind of thing. There's there's all
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: kinds of amazing programs out there, so much more now
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: than when we started.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Right, where's a good place to look for that?
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think Lonely Planet is still a great resource.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: On Thorn Tree, there's all kinds of great resources. Gee,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: you know, there's there's so much it's hard.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: For me to well, well, we'll put We'll put a
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: couple of them in the.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: An expedition part. Also, yeah, you know there.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Is people there. Yeah, there is some of that on there. Yeah.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And I think also just starting from the foundation of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: reminding yourself that you're a guest in these countries, which
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: means you start with the foundation of not doing any
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: harm while you're there. You know, don't get in an accident,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: slow your speed down, be respectful again, don't like, don't
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: do volunteerism where the money doesn't end up in the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: local communities. Find locally owned businesses that you can you know,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: go to dinner at a restaurant that's owned by a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: local as opposed to a Nando's or some chain right
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: that is owned by somebody in an ivory tower.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And by the way, if you're there to have travel experiences,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: you could have a better experience anyhow.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, way better experience. Absolutely.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: The best people we ever met when we were overlanding
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: were when we were working in communities, you know, some
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: of the native communities up up above the Arctic Circle.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Stuff that we've done in India, like all around the world,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you just meet amazing, amazing people because now you're not
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: there as a tourist. Sure, right, And there's this amazing
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Native American quote. I wish I could remember the name
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: of the person who says, I, if you've come here
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: to help me, then we've already.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Lost, right because it changes the frame.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: But hold my hand, and let's walk together and approach
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: this challenge together as Parker's. And that's the way to
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: think about all of these, right. Don't take the colonial perspective,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: especially here in Africa, of thinking that you're here to help, right,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: because that's not what's needed.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's such an important reminder, Jay, Thanks for saying
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that so clearly, so that way we all know that, Like,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: let's be a good guest, Let's be humble. Let's make
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: sure that the resources that we are investing, our time
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: or our money are going to reputable sources. And then
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: don't have the mindset of I'm here to help someone else.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: It's that I'm here to be a partner in helping
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: or here to be a partner in achieving their goals.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and remember that your goals are tied up
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: in theres right.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: My grandfather used to always say, you have two years
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: in one mouth, use them in that ratio. Right. That's
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: so important that there's a reason why you've chosen to
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: pack all of your life into the back of a
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Panier bag and travel around the world. It's it's because
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: you're there to learn. Yeah, And if you're not, then
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: what are you doing?
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Ah? That's so true. And it changes us.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Travel travel changes us in ways that I would have
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: never imagined twenty years ago when I started this. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I'm I think that's the majority of my gratitude around
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: what I do is because of the ways that it
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: has softened me and changed me so change my perspective
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: that I had never expected.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: But then also, Scott, think about the thousands of lives
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: that you've touched around the world become I've ever seen you.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: There's people who come up to you and they know
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: who you are and what you're doing, and it leaves
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: a lasting impact for sure.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Oh thank you. I appreciate that.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: So when we talk about impact, one of the things
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: that you did that I think is so interesting is build.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: It was really like a tech test of the Eco
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: roamor so. You know, we have a mutual friend in
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Doug Hackney and he was going down about the same time.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: You guys were both doing one off Expedition campra builds,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: which thanks to both of you, I know, I'll never
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: try that myself because like both of my buddies are like,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: this was not a good idea, but I suspect you
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: learned a lot. So it's one of the most popular
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: threads on Expedition Portal. Do you remember where it's at
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: for views right now? It's in the millions. Oh yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it's definitely in the millions of views, and it's called
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the Eco Rummer when you go onto expedit Portal and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: search for it. And it's an incredible build. But what
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: what inspired you to do that? Talk a little bit
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: about like what the mission was of that vehicle.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: So so when Alice and I were on that trip
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: in Cambodia, camping in the back of a Proto ninety series,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: we uh, we were looking up at the stars one
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: night and we made a pinky promise to each other
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: that when we had kids, which we didn't at the time,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: we wouldn't stop and we would keep keep overland and
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: keep exploring. Yeah, and you know, as anybody who's a
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: parent knows, your life changes when you have when you
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: have kids, and they take up room and come with
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. But we knew we wanted to
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: travel around the world, and we we tried to find
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: a vehicle that would be big enough to be both
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: our transport as well as our home, as well as
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: a school room as well as the office because we
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: were both running businesses all simultaneously while not leaving a footprint.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You know, we.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Wanted to leave the world better than what we came
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: into it. And at the time, this is two thousand
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: and six, two thousand and seven just did not exist. Yeah,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: you know, and there's certainly more today. And I may
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: arrogantly think that I had something to do with the
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: creation of that because I certainly influenced it, and so
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: we created what we called the Ecooma, which ran entirely
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: off of solar power and biodiesel. All the materials that
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: built it were recycled, so we used recycled aluminum as
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: the framing, we used recycled paper for the countertops. The
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: entire thing was good, and that in itself was a
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: fascinating challenge because component by component I had to go
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: through and try and find what we could do. Composting toilets,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: which are now totally common, now common, at the time
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: completely not twelve olirgnisent now common, totally wasn't at the time, right,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: all these different things, and and I decided that since
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: it didn't exist and yet should exist, that I would
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: open source the entire build And so I documented everything
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: on expedition portal. We had spreadsheets showing all the parts
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: and the costs and the weight for everything, all of
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: our CAD files, and we built it in Sturgis, Michigan,
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Jeff Cool and we just had an amazing experience doing that,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: such that I said, if we never drove a mile
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: in the Ecoomer already it was worth the money and
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: the time, you know, it took about two and a
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: half years to build, and it was the greatest experience
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I ever had, you know, doing that. But we did
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: drive it, and we took it to burning Man a
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: couple of times, we went up to the Arctic Circle.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: We went all the way down to California, Florida and
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: all the states in between, and put along two thousand
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: miles on it a little over a year. A little
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: over a year, and then on Christmas Eve two thousand
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: and ten, we were in San Jose, California, and literally
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: the wheels came off it. It was based on a
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Ford F six fifty chassis and UH at the time,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Ford and International were sharing components on the chassis and
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: there was a known weakness with the leaf springs on
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: the rear axle and one of them cracked. Oh and uh,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: and the rear axle came dislodged and uh and that
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: basically stopped our trip. And we then repaired it and
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: it quickly. It did stop, it very quickly.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: How fast were you driving when that happened.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: We were in an intersection doing a left hand turnout
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: about a mile an hour.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Goodness, we were crawling, thank goodness. Yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But the entire campers went and yeah, and the
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: fire trucks came and the kids had like little teddy bears.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: It was definitely part of the overlanding experience for sure.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I'm sure all of us with LANs in the past
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: have spent many hours by the side of the road
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: and that was one of them. But but yeah, and
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: that then took us onto a different path.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible and and I think influence.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I think it was.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Really a changing point in overlanding when when people began
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to realize that it was possible to live and work
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: from the road. And that's one of the things that
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I believe, Alison, you have done such a masterful job of.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, even talking to you before the podcast, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: you're telling me about how your son's using chat GPT
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and just like this incredible chain of technology to solve problems.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: And you've always had that mindset. So what are some
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: things that you've learned about traveling and working from the
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: road that really helps you today? Like, what are some
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: of the technologies that you've really found makes a difference
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: for working on the road or even practices.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, first of all, transformative, I think is starlink, right,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: so true, that did not exist when we were when
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: we were overlanding, and now it's I mean it's.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Remarkable, yeah right, I mean that's the only way to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: describe it.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. This second thing is is put everything in the cloud, right,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Google Drive is what I use with a direct sync
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: to my laptop. So if ever I'm offline, I'm not connected,
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: I still have everything there. But also if my laptop
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: gets stolen or left in a roadside or anything, I'm
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: never more than a few hours away from another laptop
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: and being able to reconnect.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: To work or even on your phone, you can absolutely
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: access most of that.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So those are both transformative technologies for sure.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And then do you use VPN sometimes or do you
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: not find the Yeah, I don't find it's as necessary
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: as it used to.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Be, you know.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Like the one thing I found was like, you cannot
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: start your Spotify account when you're in another country, right.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh no, I can't get to my
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: all my music.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I had, like the free account, and then I wanted
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: to you can't do it like you got to do
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: it in your home country.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's also I think important when you're overlanding
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: to always have your photos and your music local. You know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: don't rely on having a Spotify kind of connection, right.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Which totally in the in the West, totally true. Yeah,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and because you don't always have a connection. Although on
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the last segment when I had Starlink on the vehicle,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I was running ten megabits a second down the road.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's insane, but that's also not necessarily a good thing, right,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Like you're asking about VPNs before, A lot of people
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: use VPNs so they can Hulu or whatever. Right, Well,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: remember you're in the middle Easter or in Africa or whatever.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: You're not there to watch Netflix. That's true, right, open,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: so open your eyes, look around. There's a there's a
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: better show going on around you than there is on Netflix.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: No, I agree.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I in fact, I
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: even have it on me now because it's that become
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that much a part of my process. But you know,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I have this four terabyte solid state drive that so
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I have everything in the cloud. I leave. I never
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: reuse an SD card, the cards always, I just put
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: in new ones. And I say, so that's another So
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I have one copy here, one copy in the camera
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: on the SD cards and then I push another copy
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: up to the cloud. So I've got that triple redundancy
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: that I feel, at least as a creative, because like
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: losing this podcast with all of this incredible knowledge that
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: you're sharing, it would be it would feel devastating to me,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like I would have done you.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: A disservice and the listener a disservice.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So like before I even leave here, it'll be backed
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: up three times.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Right, So you know, I think two key lessons that
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: are not mine, but I've learned from others, right, words
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: of wisdom from the from the expo over the year.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Right. One is from Austin Vance, who his philosophy and
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: I still love it is get on your bike and
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: go take nothing in this case is overalls, right, and
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: if you need something, borrow it, and if you need
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: it a second time, then buy.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: It and carry it.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Was that's great advice, so true and otherwise and the
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: second one Jupiter Travels. You know his advice, look up right,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: we have our four terabyte drives and our cameras and
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: we want to take the images and we want to
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: capture these things and all that. There's a million photos
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: of girafts in the world. Right, The world does not
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: need another your photo of a draft. Right, put the
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: camera down and look at the draft. What I carry instead?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: I have a little leather three leg stool has strapped
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: and goes on my back. And I'll go out at
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: six o'clock in the morning and walk into the woods
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: and sit and watch a family of giraffes eating their
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: breakfast in the morning. Yeah, and I won't take my phone,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: I won't take my camera. And I remember that far
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: more than I ever would looking at those pictures on
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Google Photos three years from now.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really that's a really thoughtful position, and I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: think it kind of comes in line with that whole
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: concept of cosmic insignificance, the realization that our life is
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: so short and that within a few generations will be
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: completely forgotten. It's not something that I find depressing. I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: actually find it very empowering because it reminds me of like,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: this time with you and the time that I get
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to spend with somebody that I've known for twenty years
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: is where I need to be spending my energy, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: that maybe the work that we do together makes a
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: difference in someone else's life that makes a difference in
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: someone else's life. They'll forget about us along, you know,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: very soon, but it may extend that opportunity out to
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: other people. So we really do have just those moments
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: to sit on a let three legged leather stool and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: look at the giraffe and appreciate it fully ourselves as
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: a sovereign individual as opposed to like this is my
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: new Instagram story, So which I know that I'm tempted by.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: It's something that I try to work on.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think we're all tempted. I mean, I think
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: psychologically it's designed to tempt us, right right, that we
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: like to like their masterful.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So, given the fact that you are in technology and
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: you work so much with this is a selfish question.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: So the fact that you're in technology and you work
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: so much with developing applications that are meant to influence
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: someone but in a positive way towards conservation animal conservation,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: or conservation of a culture, or or.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Changes in behaviors.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: What are some things that people need to be mindful
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: of from a technological standpoint when they're traveling to have
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: more of those moments, Like, what are some things that
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you've learned that helped create some discipline around these these
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: incredibly powerful tools that influence us or distract us.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: So great resource that I'm met in Guanaquato. You know,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: them taught me to take a breath before you talk,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: you know, right, take that that brief beef bet, you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: to think about not just what you're going to say
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: so that you don't hurt somebody else, whatever, but also
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: to be maybe a little bit aware of what's going
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: on inside of you and why you're about to react
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: in the way that you react, and then question is
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: this actually how I would like to react? Because I
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: think we've all gone to bed at night and think
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: thought about the stuff that we said during the day
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: and regret some of the things that we've said whatever,
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: and a lot of that can be prevented by like
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: just that half a second before when you're talking. So
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I think I think that also applies to the experiences
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: that we're going to have, you know, and realize.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: On Twitter absolutely or x like just take take a
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: beat before you say that unkind thing or whatever.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm off them. I've pulled myself off Facebook, off Twitter,
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: I was unmastered on you know, and and they give
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: an amazing sense of community, but also a false sense
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: of community.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: You know what, have you replaced that time with people?
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: You know, people, real experiences And it sounds weird, but
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: look the way I like it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: It weird's a good thing anymore. Yeah, we've become so homogenious.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: We're just like everybody's one the same version of the
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: next person.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so, I think about the early nineteen
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: hundreds and h the original invention of the car, the automobile,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: and until about like from nineteen oh seven until about
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: nineteen twenty five, that that brief period in there, it
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: was chaos.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: There was no traffic lights, there weren't sidewalks, there weren't
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: yellow lines down the middle of the road. Cars were
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: going every which way. Intersections were crazy as it. Sometimes
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, absolutely absolutely.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: It sounded like my commute this.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Morning, absolutely right. And it's very organic. Right, there's a
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: flow to it, and there's a flow to it, and
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: it works and you get where you want to go. True,
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, there's big snarl ups and
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: when they happen, they really happen, and you can sit
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: for hours in a traffic jam. Right, that's where we
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: are now with social media, right. I mean, we have
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: to remember seventeen years ago the very first iPhone ever
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: came out. Right, we're less than two decades into.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: This and we're straction a single generation.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Absolutely right. We're still developing those social norms, those practices,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: those traffic lights to teach us appropriate ways to behave
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: that's in the interest of everybody, right, and at the moment,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: we're all operating in the interest of ourselves as the
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: drivers do in the chaotic traffic of Nairobi streets. So true,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: and those guidelines help, and so I think we have
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: to remember that when we get onto Twitter and we
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: get onto Facebook, et cetera, to remember that it's our duty,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: as it was those drivers in nineteen oh seven, to
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: create those practices, to create those mores, and to hold
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: our cells to the better standard because there aren't radar
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: cameras and red light cameras, et cetera doing it for us. Yet.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's so true.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: That's very good advice, thank you, and it's good to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: hear that you're off of those things. It's something that
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I've put a lot of guardrails around that's made a
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: big difference. Mostly just getting it off my phone was
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing, and then now.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I just have it on an iPad.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: So if I if I want to get onto Instagram,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: then I've got to go get another device, and I've
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: got to be intentional about it and then put it away.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. But at the same time, Scott, you know Expedition Portal,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that original thread about the ecoromer, Yeah, gave an amazing
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: sense of community. I mean until today, I'm friends with
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: people that I met that Doug Mark, yourself, et cetera.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: All came about from us as a community solving those
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: problems together. Yeah, And so I do believe that real
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: connection is possible through a digital means. It's not what
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: I'm saying, yeah, but I do think we have to
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: be intentional about it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe just being careful about it for sure, and
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: don't be a dick.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: So true. It all starts with that. It all starts
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to talk to you about
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: because I'm so impressed with your kids and the direction
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: that they're going. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, your
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: daughter is getting ready to do three months on an
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: educational ship.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Is that right? No?
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: No, No, she's a part of something called Think Global.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: School Okay, Think Global School Okay.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Which is a traveling high school, traveling high school, and
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: they spend each term in a different country. So she's
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: in Hairoshima, Japan at the moment. She was just in Australia,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: and the term before that they were in Bosnia and
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: she's heading to Greece the next term's Jay.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing, amazing experience.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I had no idea that that was.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I had heard about the boats that do that,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and maybe that's why I was thinking that. But they
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: go from Bosnia to Japan. The that's just incredible.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And what's cool is I mean it sounds like
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: the realm of rich kids and a very posh kind
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: of thing, but actually of the forty kids that are
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: in the school, they come from twenty nine different countries,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: from many different economic backgrounds. It's incredibly stringent to get in.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: There was more than two hundred applications for ten positions
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: into years. It's all run as a nonprofit. It's an amazing,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: amazing school. And what we're fascinated with it and why
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: we put her there and you put her there?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: She found it.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: It was this is all driven by her absolutely is
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: that it really is a laboratory for the future of learning. Right,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: the world is changing, education needs to change, you well,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: and this project based, interdisciplinary, place based approach is fascinating,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and and creates the kind of global
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: citizen as you're saying that that I think is necessary
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: for thriving in the world world in the decades to come.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: In So so, I think while this is a tiny
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: example at the moment, I do think it's going to
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: it's going to scale.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Have you seen more like that? Are there more out there?
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: But they're coming?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: And then there's there's a few interesting schools. So the
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Green School in bali Uh is fascinating that there's another
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: one that's modeled after the Green School. Now in South Africa,
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: there are there are pockets for sure.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Now what are the what's the continuity then of learning?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Does the teacher remain the same.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: The teachers travel with the kids, okay?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: And then so and then is the is the curriculum
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: set and then executed in those different locations or does
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: the curriculum also change?
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: So the curriculum still follows traditional high school sort of curriculum,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: but instead of being books and test based, it's project based, okay.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: And when they're in Bosnia, for example, they use the
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: fact that they're in Bosnia to teach the curriculum. So
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: they had a whole module on AI and journalism where
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: they went and interviewed people who covered the war in
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Sarajevo and talked about how AI tools today can be
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: used for fact checking and research and creation, et cetera.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: And so again in Australia they dealt with indigenous things.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: In Hiroshima, they're talking about nuclear power in the war
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: and all and peace and conflict issues and all that
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: kind of thing, talking to survivors from from then, and
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: then they went into a nuclear power plant. I mean,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: they're doing all kinds of really fascinating things that you
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: could only do there.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: And yet it's bringing that into the curriculum.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It's the end of one of that the best case
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: to learn that subject would be in those environments.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's cool.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: And and what other ways have you seen your kids
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: change because of your global travels.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: So my son, you know, when we moved here, he
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: really got into it. He learned fluent Swahili, whoa his
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: sweel he's pretty amazing and always throws off people. And
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: he's got long blonde hair. I mean, he does not
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: look like a Kenyon. But he also started or led
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: a social enterprise here doing plastic recycling, so collecting waste,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: plastic bottles and all that from communities and slums and
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: then extruding that into products, new products that then are
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: sold in Safari lodges and hotels and all that to
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: generate jobs and income for people in the slums.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: And to give them a reason to recycle. Absolutely, yeah,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: an economic lever.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And so now they have fourteen workshops around East Africa.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And that was your son that did that.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: He was one of the leaders of it.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Yet that's incredible, That's incredible.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: So now he's at school in Georgia Tech in Atlanta
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: studying aerospace. He wants to be an astronaut, but he
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: brings him that uh.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Perspective and that humility too.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: So you've also spent decades traveling with your wife Alice,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: and you guys are both really connected and very busy
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and business leaders. How do you guys find or
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: what are the things that you've learned from Alice or
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: what are ways that you've learned to travel together. That
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: makes it easier, That makes travel more effective for you
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: as a couple.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: The sixty four million dollar questions, Yeah.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Because that's why I asked it, because it's always good
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: to know. Yeah, I know how people how people solve it.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: So I mentioned before the night the ecorromer the axle
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: came off, We're we're in California. Literally two hours before that,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: we were in some parking lot having like the fight
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: of our life, crazy argument.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: The wheels were coming over.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: The wheels were coming up because you'd missed some yoga class.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: So it was something, right, it was like whatever it was,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: and that was it. And in an overlanding it's like
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: a pressure cooker and sometimes it builds up. And all
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: came out right, and it seemed like the end of
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: the world kind of thing until the wheels come off
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: that truck and then you realize, actually, none of it matters, right,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: what's important is that you're safe and that it didn't
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: blow up, and that the kids are safe and the
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: fire trucks are there and all that kind of thing, right,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: And so I think what that taught us, as did
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: a million other experiences over the twenty three years we've
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: married is perspective and benefit of the doubt and realizing
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: that the person on the other side is a human
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: as well and has good intentions and you're both you're
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: a team. And man, it's hard sometimes, but if you
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: approach life as a team more than as a couple,
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: you can get through anything.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And what are you most proud of about, Alice? What
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: are your most proud of?
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: That's very hard to narrow down, because it's incredible. She's Yeah,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: she's somebody who's d exceptional. Yeah, like I'm like here
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: and she's there, right, And and realizing that is the
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: first secret to success in the marriage, right. No, she's
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: an amazing, amazing person and and I'm incredibly proud of
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: the fact that she's amongst all of her Harvard Business
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: School classmates who are off doing hedge funds and whatever,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: she's the only one I know who puts on her
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: hiking boots and goes into a village to sit down
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: in the ground and talk with women and to understand
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: what they actually need and to help them bring their
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: families out of poverty and create livelihoods for as I say, now,
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: millions of families you know around the world. And and
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: she's you know, from a salary perspective, earning a fraction
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: of what her classmates are doing and what she used
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: to do as a banker and that kind of thing.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: But the realization that it's not about any of that, right,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: you can't take it with you, as they say, and
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: you know, as you mentioned this sort of generational that
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: we're only here for the short time. She and I
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: are really focused on this concept of net positive impact, right,
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: leave the world a better place than what you came
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: into it with.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Sure, and everybody does a little bit of that. Absolutely,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: that's a huge lever Absolutely, just one person, it does
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: make a difference.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: In you know, let's call it, well, in your wife's case,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: millions of lives. But like let's may maybe use me
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: as an example. Maybe I'm able to influence a life
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of ten people in a positive way. And if they
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: can leverage that, it just really starts to make a
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: huge difference.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Now it's I've always had just such tremendous respect for
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: both of you, for the Muscoca Foundation and the work
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: that you guys did with that, for the open source
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: nature of your eco roam or build what you're doing
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: right now in Africa by helping to create games that
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: create positive change around poaching, around animal welfare, around conservation
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: in general, and the.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Measure reproductive health and all those kinds of things as well.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not just nature and wildlife.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's just incredible.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: So before we go on to ways that people can
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: find out more about what you're doing and how they
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: can support in some way, one of the questions that
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I like to ask is if you were to give
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: some advice, which you've done a little bit of that
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: so far, but somebody new first day on expedition portal
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: and it gets a chance to sit down with you.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Having spent decades traveling around the world, what are the one, two,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: three pieces of key advice that you would give someone
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that was starting that journey.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the first thing I would say is
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: live your life today.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: There's all kinds of people who toil for years and
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: jobs that they hate, saving some money so that someday
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: they can take that trip, and then they have a
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: heart attack two weeks before they retire, right, And it
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: never happens, And it happens so often. It happens all
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: too often absolutely right, get out there today, and even
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: if that's just a long weekend, even if it's taking
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: your kids camping in the backyard, whatever it may be,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: start making those memories immediately. The second thing is, and
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: this sounds hypocritical because I built a really big truck
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: and it costs a lot of money, but you don't
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: need it.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Right, We'll be down you know now.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: I know absolutely we would be bouncing along these back
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: roads in Cambodia and in our land cruiser with the
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: roof rack and the bull bar and the mud tires,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: and we felt fantastic, right, and then you get passed
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: by a Cambodian in a camera, the old broken down
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: corollas from Cape cod that have parking stickers on them
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: from the nineteen eighties. Right, like, it doesn't you don't
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: need it, right. What's important is that you get out
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: there right, even if it's with a backpack. It doesn't matter.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: The world is there to be explored. That your days
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: are finite. Get out there and explore.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Jay, do you do you find that the fact that
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: you have done, like the backpacking trip. I'm trying to
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: relate it more to the listener. You've had some incredible
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: innovations and businesses that you and and your wife Alice
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: have created. Do you find that that those moments of minimalism,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: those moments of traveling in a backpack have helped you
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: to create this success? Has there been learnings from that,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: inspirations that come from that, or is it just necessary
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: for you?
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: No? No, I think I think it does. I think
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: what it creates is is focus. And that's that's something
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: that that I struggle with and we talked about before,
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: you know add as well. But yeah, focus doesn't necessarily
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: come easy. Yeah, But realizing what's important and being intentional
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: about it, I think is really important. And and particularly
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: on the road. You know, there's practical reasons for that, right,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: in terms of weight of your vehicle, Yeah, and things
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: breaking down and whatever. Right, as Austin said, you know,
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: concentrate on what's important. Yeah, right. And and by the way,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: unless you're going to the South Pole, you don't need it.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: You don't need it. You don't need it, right. And
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: by the way, at the South Pole there's guys that
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: with wrenches there as well.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Right, that's so true.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: You'll be okay, Yeah, and like that, this trip across Africa,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: it is just you know, the Grenadier is very cool,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: but it's also totally stock, so it could have been
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: a FOURD or chimney, it could have been any other vehicle.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: But you just you just don't need it, even very
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: remote and challenging terrain. I mean, there's times that you
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: want fol drive just for some peace of mind if
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: you're a solo traveler, but you don't need much.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: You really don't need much.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: You don't. But at the same time, some of the
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: best experiences I've had traveling and the coolest people I've met,
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: we're When we got stuck, Yeah, we broke down. We
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: were on this muddy back road and in the middle
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: of Kenya once and we got properly stuck in a Defender,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: like properly stuck, and there were these potato farmers, these
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: five guys who were just walking along the road, and
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: they help push us out and we managed to get out.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: There's no way we would have gone out without them.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: And then all five of them got into the Defender
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: and we drove them to the next town and we
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: had an amazing time.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: That's incredible. Jay.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: One of the other things that I love to ask
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: is around favorite books.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Do you have.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: It can be business, it can be life, it can
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: be travel. Are there some some books that have really
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: influenced you? Or you find her?
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: Oh the Overland Journal is that's so kind of you say,
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: that's so kind of you to say, I honestly, I don't.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: That's I love a lot. I'm listening to a gentleman
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: in Moscow at the moment, which is fantastic. That's a great,
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: great story. Yeah, there's so many like it'd be hard
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: to pick.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's okay, No, that's all right.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes and we get a lot of the Jupiter's travels
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff in there, which I think is
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a good reminder.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Well, Jay, how do people find.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Out more about either organizations that you believe in or
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the organizations that you're involved in? If you do it
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't sound like you have a big footprint on social
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: media personally anymore. But how can people find out maybe
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: about what Alice is doing ways that they can give back.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: It's a tough question because and it's okay, we don't
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: have a real footprint. I'm certainly active on LinkedIn. Okay,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: anybody's free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. What
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: I will say is I get a lot of connection
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: recrosts on LinkedIn. So if you send me a connection
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: requests without a note, I will reject it. Yeah, sure,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: right a connection, Send me who you are, tell me
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: you know why you're interested in joining, you know, connecting,
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: and I'll happily share any experience with you. I give
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of my time from that perspective.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah right.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: And then people can also see the eco roamer bill
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: on Expedition Portal.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's also at the eco Romar dot com.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: It's still there. It's not very active, but it's definitely
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: still there. You can see all the pictures of it
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: on Expedition Portal. The thread is still there. Thank you
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: very much for maintaining it all these yorks. Of course,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is outdated now because
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: the technology has moved on so much, but the concepts
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: are still absolutely valid. And I would encourage anybody today
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: who has spent dozens of hours watching van life YouTube
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: videos to maybe move away from the dazzle and the
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: ridiculously attractive influencers who seem to gravitate towards sprinter vans
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: and think more about you know, what your footprint is
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: as you're doing that trip and how you can reduce
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: that and more importantly is you know, put some windows
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: in your van so that you can look down the
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: world around you, because that's why you're going.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or bringing along that three leg it's stool.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: And spend some time looking at the giraffe instead of
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: taking a picture of it.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: T is the great equalizer, you know. Duncan Barber, yeap,
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: Uncle Barber says that the greatest four y four tool
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: around is a tea kettle. Yeah, that's right, right, because
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: if you ever get stuck, the first thing you do
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: is make a cup of tea. And and the reality
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: is we put on a cup of tea. Uh, somebody
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: will come join you, and you'll make a new friend.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: And maybe come up with a better solution than absolutely
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: tried to if you just tried to jump in. You know, Jay,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Alice and you have always been an inspiration. I'm proud
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: to know You're proud to call you a friend. I'm
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: so glad that we've been able to spend some time
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: together on a couple of different occasions here in Kenya.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: I look forward to seeing what happens.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: From your game gaming enterprise and what Alice continues to
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: make changes in the world. But thank you so much
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: for joining us today.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: No, thanks for the conversation, Scot, and you truly have
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: changed our lives, in the lives of our family and
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: therefore all of the other people that we've influenced downstream.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: You know, this community would not exist without you, and
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: so you know we're thankful for you too.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Jay, We thank you all for listening,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you next time.