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2026's Biggest Questions · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 1: we talk about New Year's resolutions for a sec? January
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  Speaker 1: used to be about totally reinventing yourself. Now it's more
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  Speaker 1: like doing an honest audit of what's actually working and
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  Speaker 1: doubling down on that.
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  Speaker 1: to 30% off with code Crooked after you purchase. They'll
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: ask where you heard about them. Please support our show
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and tell them we sent you. Welcome to Pod Save America.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I'm Jon Favreau.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: And I'm Alex Wagner. I love saying that when I'm
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: here with you. It makes it even better.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's so good. This is our first Sunday show of
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the year. You guys asked for more Pod Save America
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and you got it. There's going to be a new
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: episode in your feed every Sunday of 2026.
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  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: How exciting is that?
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  Speaker 3: And this year has been 200 years long already. So
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: there should be 200 extra episodes of Pod Save America.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: We're all going to take turns hosting, including our newest host,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: but longtime pal, Alex Wagner. Right here in studio. How
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: lucky am I?
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Listen, you got to kick the year off right. When
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: the world is melting, you get to a hot place.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: You get to California. And I'm so thrilled to be here.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I come more often.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: The snack selection's gotten a lot better since I was
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: last here, I got to say. I don't know whether
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: that's related to my contract or what.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We tried to ask for some healthier snacks.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that I'd say that that's what happened.
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  Speaker 4: There's just more of them.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we tried to get... We didn't want to take
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  Speaker 1: away the unhealthy snacks.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Well, right.
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  Speaker 1: We just wanted a little bit more of a balance.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew it was more candy. But anyway, I
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: guess we're all blind to... I mean, I'm blind to
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  Speaker 3: the healthy snacks. They just seemed a bounty, and I
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: was grateful.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'm biased, of course, but I'm a huge fan of
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: your new show, Runaway Country, the newest addition to the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Crooked Network.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: Oh, it is such a good.
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  Speaker 1: How's it been going?
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  Speaker 4: Well, it's great because you're on it this week.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: That's why you might be biased.
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  Speaker 1: That's why it was so good this week. Particularly excellent episode,
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  Speaker 1: if I can say so myself.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got to say, flu-ridden Ben Rhodes is the
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: best Ben Rhodes.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Hot. Hot on the mic this week. Everyone was hot.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we came back to a motherfucker of a year, really.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, what a series of events to bear witness to.
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  Speaker 3: And Runaway Country this week focused on Venezuela. We talked
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: to some Venezuelans about their opinions of all of this,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: which is interesting and not exactly what you think. And
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: then we got hot, spicy hot takes from Jon Favreau
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  Speaker 3: and Ben Rhodes.
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  Speaker 1: It's always great being a guest on a show like
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: that because I'm more measured as a host. You let
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  Speaker 1: it rip. As a moderating.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you let it rip.
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  Speaker 1: And that, I didn't have any, you know.
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  Speaker 4: You saw that train with no brakes.
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  Speaker 1: Did not give.
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  Speaker 4: You throttled it up.
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  Speaker 1: No fucks. As you mentioned, you know, the first week
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  Speaker 1: of 2026 felt like several lifetimes, none of which I
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: would enjoy living again. But somehow we have a huge
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  Speaker 1: year ahead of us.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's America's 250th birthday.
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  Speaker 3: That's what I've been thinking. That's what I thought New
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  Speaker 3: Year's Day, man. I thought, America, you look great for 250.
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  Speaker 1: 250. The country is being run by an aging autocrat
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: who is engaged in mind-boggling corruption. And hemispheric domination. He's
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  Speaker 1: got an army of masked agents on the streets. One
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  Speaker 1: just killed an unarmed American citizen. But in November, this November,
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  Speaker 1: he will face for one of the very last times
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  Speaker 1: in his life, an electorate.
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  Speaker 4: Make it so.
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  Speaker 1: An electorate that has never been this angry with him
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  Speaker 1: over how he's handling the economy. And their votes will
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  Speaker 1: decide just how much of a lame duck Trump is.
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  Speaker 1: and what the race will look like to finally replace him. So,
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  Speaker 1: chill year ahead.
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  Speaker 4: Chill. What could go wrong?
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  Speaker 1: And as everyone knows here at Pod Save America, we're
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: still not in the prediction business. Though it seems that's
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: like literally become quite a business now, the prediction business.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, people want any kind of map to be
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  Speaker 4: done certain times.
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  Speaker 1: Now we're just betting. Now we're making bets.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, polymarket.
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  Speaker 1: But I thought what could be useful is, we're not
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  Speaker 1: going to do predictions, but We could talk about the
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  Speaker 1: biggest political questions on our minds for the year ahead.
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  Speaker 1: What we think will be the most consequential, what we'll
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  Speaker 1: be paying closest attention to, what we think will tell
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  Speaker 1: us the most about where we're headed, that kind of thing.
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  Speaker 1: So we're each going to do six questions for 2026.
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  Speaker 4: Maybe six and a half.
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  Speaker 1: Unless we have more.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 1: And aren't too tied for the 6 to 26 bit.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, good.
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  Speaker 1: Then it's just chaos.
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  Speaker 4: That's right.
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  Speaker 1: We can do what we want. We'll call it six
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  Speaker 1: for 26. We'll call it eight for 26.
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  Speaker 4: Dude, it's the era of Trump. Everybody can do whatever
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  Speaker 4: the fuck they want.
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  Speaker 1: We can do whatever we want. Exactly. But I thought
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  Speaker 1: it would be fun to do some questions. So why
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  Speaker 1: don't we, you can start us off.
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  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. What's the first question you have for 2026?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I do think the Dems are going to take
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  Speaker 3: back the house, right? So my first question involves the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: interregnum period in and around lame ducks.
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  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, we're already there.
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  Speaker 4: We're already at the end of the year.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to go rewind to other parts of the year,
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  Speaker 3: but I think in terms of like, sort of pressing
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  Speaker 3: issues when the Democrats take back the House.
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  Speaker 4: I'm interested to.
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  Speaker 3: Know which White House official becomes the subject of the
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  Speaker 3: first House investigation. And I specifically am interested in whether
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  Speaker 3: it's Pete Hegseth for the boat murders, Kash Patel for
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  Speaker 3: the FBI purges and what he's done to the department,
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  Speaker 3: or maybe Pam Bondi for Epstein. I mean, there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot to choose from. And I do think that there's
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  Speaker 3: going to be an enormous amount of interest in terms
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  Speaker 3: of how the House Democrats organize themselves. And I'd like
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  Speaker 3: to know how they sort of process the year And
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  Speaker 3: think about which villain to sort of investigate and haul
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  Speaker 3: before Congress first.
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  Speaker 1: That's such a good question. And it raises a number
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  Speaker 1: of other questions in my mind, which is, do the
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  Speaker 1: officials comply?
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  Speaker 3: Yep.
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  Speaker 1: Do they decide that it's Congress and... Fuck Congress? Yep.
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  Speaker 1: You can send your subpoenas and we can ignore them.
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  Speaker 1: And then what are you going to do? Get the
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  Speaker 1: Justice Department?
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  Speaker 4: And what do Democrats do if that happens?
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And what do Democrats do? Because isn't there some kind
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: of a... congressional sergeant someone can do.
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  Speaker 3: Something there yes i think well they can be held
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  Speaker 3: in contempt of congress right and we know there's that
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: steve bannon i mean there's there's at.
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  Speaker 1: Some point at some point though it probably does have
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: to go to the justice department yes which is donald
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: trump's justice department yes.
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  Speaker 3: It's true which is ironic because we might be investigating
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: department of justice officials and potentially the head of the
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: justice department i did look into like the strength of
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: a a preemptive presidential pardon and as it intersects with
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  Speaker 3: a congressional investigation it doesn't matter they're separate branches of
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  Speaker 3: the government um You know, I think the question of
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  Speaker 3: accountability is.
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  Speaker 4: Going to be a big one if we lose any.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Of Trump's murderer's row of idiots. That's such a weird
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: combination of metaphors. Like if Pete Hegseth leaves or is fired,
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  Speaker 3: if Kash Patel leaves or is fired, if Pam Bonney
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: leaves or is fired, do they get pardons on their
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: way out the door? I would assume so. Like if
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: there are departures this year, I think it'll be interesting
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: to see what Trump's strategy is for this administration has
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: absolutely committed crimes. And this could be a good test
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: year to see what the end of the Trump administration
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: might look like in terms of that.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So the other option, aside from them just saying we're
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: going to defy the subpoenas, is what they have been
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: doing this year when they were before Congress, which is
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: they just go and they treat it as a way
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to perform for Donald Trump and the Fox audience and
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: right-wing audience beyond that and just say whatever they want
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to say. The value... to me, in the subpoena power
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: is less about who you get and then the documents
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you get.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: The documents.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And that I wonder about because there's a lot of
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  Speaker 1: documents that you can get from the administration.
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  Speaker 3: That is the substance. That is the meat, as it were, John.
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  Speaker 3: And that stuff really matters. And that's not something they
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  Speaker 3: can prevent from coming out.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And then there's the question that they're going to have
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to wrestle with. You're going to start hearing because Democrats
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: will run on affordability. And let's say we win.
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Then it's going to be like, well, did you win
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the House? And now all you're going to do is
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: just investigations. And then there's the whole impeachment question.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Well, right.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: That is that was like a secondary concern because that's
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: obviously front of mind with regards to Trump. He's already
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: talked about it in front of the House Republicans who
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: gathered at the Trump Kennedy Center earlier this year. He's
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: terrified of being impeached for a third time. And it's
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: going to be I mean. I do think that there
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: is it is without question a better thing for the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: health of our democracy to have an opposition party in
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: charge of one branch of government and specifically the Democrats.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: And if they control at least the lower chamber, there's
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: going to be I think it'll be a shot in
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: the arm for democratic organization. And I think the movement
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: right now has proven really robust at the grassroots level.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: The citizen engagement in our politics is undeniable. But you
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  Speaker 3: do need a tip of the spear here. that has
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: investigatory power, subpoena power, and just is in government. So
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: it will be helpful to have Democrats up there in
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: control of the lower chamber, but there are gonna be
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: a lot of questions about how aggressively the party looks
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: backward to this year and to the year before in
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: terms of what Trump has done and manages that question
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: of accountability and whether that's something they wanna tackle Which
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: increasingly seems like an academic exercise, even though I don't
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: think it is. I think it is essential to the
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: work of democracy to hold people accountable who occupy positions
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: of power, if not for this generation, then for the next.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Especially after this last year that we've had. Yeah, man.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And especially what we learned from the administration between the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: two Trump administrations. You know, as... Merrick Garland in the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Justice Department.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: Well, right. I mean, we learned nothing. Right.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: All right. Here's my first question.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, man.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: How do most midterm voters feel about the economy this summer?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Because to me, there's a lot of political science research
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: around this that impressions harden about two to three months
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: before the election, maybe a little before that. There's always exceptions,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of course, but that's usually when it happens. And I
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: do think how voters feel about The economy is highly,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: highly correlated with how they feel about Donald Trump and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: will be highly correlated to how they vote, whether they
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: vote for Republicans or Democrats in the midterm, and particularly
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the voters who have not made up their minds.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Who are those voters?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: My God.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: But anyway, yes.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And they could make up their– not just should I
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: vote for a Republican or should I vote for a Democrat,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: but should I vote at all? Should I even come
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: out to vote?
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And those people will make up their minds most likely
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: on economic issues.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Well, we're going to be awash in Venezuelan oil this summer.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: So travel is going to be super cheap.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: And I, you know, bully for Trump. I think, you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: it'll be interesting.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: I kind of wonder whether that old thinking holds true
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: for a year like this, just because we've been, the
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: American public has been so both, Naturally interested in affordability
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: because they're broke. And there's a sort of the economic
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: pain has been so ongoing, right? Like January is a
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: month of premium insurance, insurance premium hikes. And that's an
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: affordability issue as much as it is a question about
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: health insurance and ethics.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: And I feel like there's going to be a collective boom.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Burden in terms of the economy that is with the
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: american public in a way that maybe in other more
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: economically healthy years there necessarily hasn't been so you know
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: what i mean like i think the summer is going
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: to matter as it always does we have the what
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: is it attention span of of us a gnat yeah
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: but i do think it's like you know it's it's
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's the the the the question of economic
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: health and the the the the the sense that Americans
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: can not afford to live the lives they led even
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: two years ago, I think is pronounced and is emotionally
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: resonant through the other months of the year in a
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: way that it isn't necessarily in other years. So I'm
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: not trying to refute your question.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: But I wonder how meaningful that traditional period of decision-making
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: is given how bad things are going to be for
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: the rest of the year.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Wow, that was a really fucking long way of saying
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: one sentence.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: No, no, I've been thinking about this because here's the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: challenge is that like, I don't know, for 80, 90
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: percent of the midterm electorate elections probably already baked.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Already decided. So the people we're talking about and for
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Democrats to win the House, it's not going to take
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: many seats, obviously. But to to to get, you know,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the number of seats that would feel like blue wave territory,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: which is obviously going to be smaller than it would
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: be even in 18, just because there are fewer competitive
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: seats because of gerrymandering. But that means the Democrats are
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: going to have to win districts that Trump won. where
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a Republican is sitting in the House district right now
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: and Democrats need to win and Donald Trump won in
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: 2024 and beat Kamala Harris by five, six points, right?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Not just like one or two.
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So then you have to find people who voted for
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump in 2024 who were like, fuck this. This
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: is not what I voted for. And again, we're like,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: what did you think you were voting for? But maybe
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: they were like, I thought he was crazy. I didn't
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: like him. I think he's an asshole, but I thought
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: he was going to manage the economy. So you need
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: those people. And the question is, How many of those
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: people do you get? And I think another answer to
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that question depends on a couple things. The Supreme Court
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: is going to decide.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: That's my question number two.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I know. And also, we're recording this, everyone.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: I know. It could be tomorrow.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: It could be tomorrow. We're recording this Thursday afternoon, everyone.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Are we peeking behind the curtain? No, that's fine. People
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: know what we're doing here.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: They know that we're not living for podcasting.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: You might be listening to this, and then maybe after
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: this conversation, maybe there's some kind of an extra... Extra interview.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Bonus.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to let you behind the curtain. If we
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: get a tariff decision tomorrow, we might do something extra
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: on this.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that was my second question, which folds
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: directly into yours, which is what happens with the Supreme
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Court and Trump's tariffs. Because by every indication, first of all,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Trump's already giving the money away, right? He's already saying, like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: we're going to cut checks to the American public from
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: all this.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: How much did he say we have?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: $ 600 billion, he said.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, $ 600 billion.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: We have taken in and will soon be receiving more
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: than $ 600 billion in tariffs. That's what he said this week.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Just a word to the wise. I think I believe
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: the official number is 1,000 companies have already preemptively sued
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the federal government to get their money back once the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court rules that the tariffs are not constitutional. That
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: includes companies like Costco, Reebok, Dole, Xerox, Revlon, and Goodyear.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: You may have heard of them. They're not upstarts. Unfortunately,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: they're not in our ad role this season. These are
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: massive companies that have had to fork over lots of
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: money if they haven't passed it on to the consumer
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: and are like, give us our fucking money back.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: This was illegal.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: So You know, it's one thing for Trump to be
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: promising the money. First of all, it's one thing for
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Trump to think the tariffs are going to stay in place.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: It's another thing for him to be promising the money.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: And it's a third for him to actually give it away.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Question is, like, if he does give it away, if
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: he does cut checks or if he does earmark it,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: like what happens if it needs to be returned? Does
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court let the tariffs that were already in
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: place stand?
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many questions. And also what.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: We hear from inside the White House is like they're
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: going to figure an end run around the tariffs no
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: matter fucking what.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Which is like, how do you do that?
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And so SCOTUS decision, whatever it may be, big deal
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: for sure. But some of the tariffs aren't subject to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that decision, number one. Number two, he was just saying
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to the New York Times in that interview that he
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: wants to try licensing fees. It's like Trump steaks. Yeah,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: if that doesn't work. And of course, some of the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: tariffs have already been lifted. He's already backed off some
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of the tariffs. So it's muddled there. I do think,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and you alluded to this, he also told the New
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: York Times that he does want to send $ 2, 000 tariff checks. Yes.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And he thinks he can do it without Congress. Yeah.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: And for timing, he said towards the end of the year. Oh,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I wonder when. I know. I know. So I am
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: wondering if they're going to like in October just decide
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to send out fucking checks. Go ahead, sue
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: us and see if you be the people that say
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: we're going to take back $ 2, 000 checks from the public.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So I do. I have a little concern about that.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of what. could change about
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the economy? Because I think right now, if the election
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: was held right now, we would see some of the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: results we saw in 2025.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And I keep wondering, like, how could the, what levers
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: does the administration have to change the economy and what
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: exigent circumstances are out there that could change the economy?
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Jerome Powell.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: At least change how people, yes. So he's going to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: appoint a new Fed chair. So you could get a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: new Fed chair that, I don't know, feels pressured to
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: lower rates, obviously.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: If it's Trump's Fed chair.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I think you don't even need to say, I don't know.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I think expressly we'll be forced. Like, literally, he'll have
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: to wear a T-shirt to the interview that says, I
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: will lower interest rates.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: He's giving me the job. And then the question is,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: there's another Supreme Court decision on whether the president can
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: just fire Fed chairs for no reason or just federal
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: reserve members for no reason. And if Trump just gets
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the Fed chair, which he already is going to have,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: then the rest of the Fed can say, well, I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: don't care. Trump's crazy new Fed chair. I'm going to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: vote how I want to vote. But if he's now
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: able to fire people and he puts a whole new
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Fed in, then we're in fucking uncharted territory. I don't
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: know if that's actually going to improve the economy or
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: destroy the economy, but that's a big one out there.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, what it does to independent agencies and
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: the balance of power is fucking shocking. We actually, this
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: was a subject of Runaway Country before we went left
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: for a break. We talked to the plaintiff. She is
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: one of the lead plaintiffs in the cases going to
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court that will determine whether or not Trump
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: can just fire, you know, the independent heads of these agencies.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: And it has repercussions, of course, for the Fed and
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: for the American economy, but it's for a fucking any
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: agency that serves in an oversight capacity to make sure
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: that the American public is not getting fucked over by
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: the federal government and political appointees. And if the Supreme
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: Court says, yeah, go for it, I mean, that basically
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: guts any real oversight of this particular administration and any
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: fucking administration.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: It's really, really, really bad.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, at the risk of becoming a watered down, very,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: very poor imitation of strict scrutiny, like what is happening
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: at the Supreme Court in the course of the next
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: six months is going to be hugely determinative, not just
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: for this year, but for the immediate future of our democracy.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that the ideal political scenario for the
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Trump White House is, and this is not all necessarily
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: things that they want. They just don't know what's good
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: for them. But the ideal political scenario economically for the
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Trump White House is the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: The ACA subsidies deal goes through. They get some kind
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: of compromise. The tax cuts, even though they are somewhat
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: meager for lower and middle income people, are felt in
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the spring. And then maybe the job market, it's sort of,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: even if it doesn't get worse, right? Like maybe it
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: just sort of putzes along. Sure. And then the AI boom,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the AI bubble doesn't pop, doesn't crash.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's like that, It doesn't seem that far-fetched.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And then, like, if people feel
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: even a little bit better than they do now, then
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I would have some concern heading into the fall.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but don't forget Trump's ability to royally fuck. I mean,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: he's on a streak right now, and we say this
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: in the week of Venezuela and the ice shooting of
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: an unarmed American citizen in her Honda, where he doesn't
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: give a shit, actually. I mean, he cares about not
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: getting impeached, right? That's his main interest in the midterms.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: But he's in this sort of late stage autocrat, he's
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: running the late stage autocrat ego playbook where it's just
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: about like big guns, being cruel, owning the libs, politics
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: be damned. So even if, I mean, I don't know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: you'd think that we've been here before and people voted
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: him back into office. Even if the economy is like, eh, okay,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: the fact that there could be National Guard troops, the
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: fact that in a city near you, the fact that
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: American citizens are getting assassinated by ICE agents in masks,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: the fact that there are immigration dragnets that are fucking
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: up just communities and labor forces, you know, all of
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: this contribute. And the fact that we may be invading Greenland,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: all of this contributes to a feel of feel of chaos,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: lawlessness and insanity that I don't know. It'll be interesting
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: to see how American I mean, that stuff is, I think,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: tangible in a way that talking about, you know, fascism
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: as a sort of academic thesis, as as it was
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: perhaps in.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: The 2024 election.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I think that stuff, because it's unfolding on videos and
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: on streets and in cities all over the country, resonates
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: in a way and is therefore maybe more meaningful than,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: you know, the discussion about Trump's autocratic tendencies was in
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: the Biden years.
• 23:03
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• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a good segue to my next question, which
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: is how far will Stephen Miller take his domestic war
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: against people who don't look like him? Or believe what
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: he believes.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Do you think I will be a resident of the
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: United States of America by the end of the year?
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I certainly don't look the way he thinks
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Americans should look.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Did you catch the Atlantic profile.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: On Stephen Miller? I caught it on, I caught the
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: first two paragraphs of it, John. Brutal.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Steve Bannon calls him this prime minister, which I think
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: is the prime minister of the government, which I think
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: is apt. There was an anecdote from 2024 debate prep.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: And I've heard that I've heard the Trump side of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: this before. I hadn't heard the Miller side of this
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: one before. I don't know if it's new or not.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: But Miller was going back and forth with someone who
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: was a little more moderate on immigration with him during
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: debate prep. And Trump was frustrated and interrupted the two
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: men and said, Stephen, if you had it your way,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: everyone would look exactly like you, someone familiar with the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: exchange told The Atlantic. And then Miller responded, that's correct,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: before turning back to continue sparring. So I do wonder...
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: We are, you know, again, we have seen this week
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: sort of the chaos of Miller's vision becoming realized of
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a mass deportation force rounding people up. And I wonder
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: what the country looks like if they they've come very
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: close to defying the courts. In fact, you could say
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: they have defied the courts here and there. But outright
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: defiance of a Supreme Court, you know, you've made your decision.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: John Roberts now enforce it kind of thing. We haven't
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: seen that yet.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Will we? Yeah. Birthright citizenship, speaking of Supreme Court decisions,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: is out there. Trump said to The New York Times
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: this week that he confirmed that they're taking steps to
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: strip Americans of citizenship. Denaturalization, he said, of Somali descent.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: But he said others, if they deserve it.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, if you get it on his wrong side,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: fuck you. You have to get out of here.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Now, denaturalization is a.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: It's a difficult standard to meet legally. You have to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: basically have lied or committed fraud on your citizenship application process. Right.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: It's not just, so some of the, like, Tom Emmer's like, oh.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Talk to Tish James about how much fraud you actually
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: need to commit to be found in the Fraud's Heirs
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: of Trump.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: But it's like, I heard Tom Emmer over the, a
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: couple weeks ago be like, oh, all these Somali Americans
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: who committed, who were caught in the fraud ring, like,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: they should be denaturalized. Like, that's not what the law says, that, like,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: if you are a naturalized citizen and you commit a crime,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: then you can be denaturalized. That's not what it, But details.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: But if you lied somehow. But like, you know, they
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: asked for, I believe Stephen Miller and DHS have asked
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: for like 100 to, like they asked for a certain
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: minimum number of denaturalization cases every month.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: That is, that should send a chill down everybody's spine.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: And actually, my question five was how many migrants have been, well,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: killed and how many American citizens deported by the end
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: of the year because that's the collateral damage of all
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: of this. You, everybody, like the problem with the Trump administration,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: it's like, It is the frog boiling slowly. Remember when
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: he was just going to get the criminals out? And
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: now it's everybody's accepted that if you came here without papers,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: you're a criminal and therefore subject to deportation.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Like that was not the litmus test.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Even like I'm old enough to remember last year, I
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: should say, like in 2024. when that wasn't going to
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: be the criteria by which these dragnets were going to operate.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: You were going to have to be a violent criminal,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: not supposed to be here, and then they were going
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: to take you out. Not that I agreed with that,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: but all of a sudden the standard is just if
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: you came here and you didn't have your papers, then
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: we're going to tear you from your family, even if
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: you are in court to try and follow the process.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: We are going to find you. We may take family
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: members who are here legally and also deport them. I mean,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: and so when the Trump administration or when the law
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: says you have to have committed sex, crime or fraud,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: like everything is fungible. Everything is movable. The goalposts are
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: not stationary on any of this. And so while denaturalization
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: may be legally complicated, it's a fool's errand to believe
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: in the adverb. legally with this administration, right? They change
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: the game all the time. And if they decide they
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: want to take naturalized citizens and rip their fucking passports
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: and their papers away from them, then they will.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: And like the courts be damned.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I will also say this court has been a gross
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: enabler of the worst, most racist impulses of this court, right?
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: The Kavanaugh stops. You can now just stop someone on
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: the street because they're brown. Like that's the world in
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: which we live. And it is Very difficult for me
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: to imagine at the end of 2026, I almost forgot
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: what year it is, that this is not a whiter
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: country than it is as we sit here today in
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: early January.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: A whiter country and, I worry, just more state-sponsored violence.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And chaos in the streets. Because I do think there
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: is a, and, you know, this is the issue that
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I fear the most is what keeps me up at night.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: But there is a temptation. I felt the temptation over
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the last couple of months before this week. Where it's like, okay,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the Chicago, the Midway Blitz wound down. The ICE raids
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles sort of, it went like city
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: by city for a while. And then we saw that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: they lost on the National Guard in court. And so
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: they announced they were taking the National Guard out of
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of these cities. But they're still like, you know,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: then they sent them to Minneapolis. And now we're dealing
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: with this in Minneapolis. And now they're going to go
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to other cities. And what they want is a reaction. Yep.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: They absolutely want a reaction.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: They want to provoke reaction.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: You hear J.D. Vance in an interview this week saying like, oh, well,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: we got to... J.D. Vance and Stephen Miller think they
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: have done poorly on deportations. They think that they are
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: getting heat. They're not listening to the people who are
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: upset about this on the left or the center. No,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: they're listening to people on the right. Or the center right. Yeah.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: They're listening to the far, far right who's like, you
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: have not deported enough people. You have not rounded up
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: enough people. And there are too many people who still
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: have citizenship who shouldn't have citizenship here. And J.D. Vance
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: is like, well, Once now we get the system in
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: place and the money's coming from the funding and the big,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: beautiful bill for ICE, now we're going to start going
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: door to door, he said on Fox. And I think
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I worry a lot about this for this year because
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: there's no reason for the administration to stop doing it
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: because they don't give a shit what the courts say.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: They don't give a shit about public opinion on it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Public opinion has turned hard against them on deportations. Yeah.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: They enjoy the violence and the cruelty.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Yes. Right?
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: That's why you see when they kill an American citizen
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: on videotape, the reaction is not even let's let the
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: investigation play out. The reaction is let's smear her memory,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: let's degrade her humanity, and let's suggest that her death
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: was warranted.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, whoa.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Yep. Right?
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Like that's where we're at.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: I will just say by the numbers according to the
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: DHS in December of last year, In President Trump's first
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: year back in office, more than 2.5 million illegal aliens,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: their term, not mine, have left the U.S., including an
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: estimated 1.9 million self-deportations and 622,000 deportations.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Hard to trust those numbers.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: Very hard to trust those numbers. Especially in the self-deportations. Exactly.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Is that people that went to go see family and
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: then just couldn't get back in the country?
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: It's hard to know what that actually means.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Also, 622,000 deportations is a fuck ton of deportations. How
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: many of them were actually people who had papers to
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: be here? But also, that's not the number that they wanted.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: So, like, that should send it– they are very interested
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: in meeting their targeted numbers, and they will stop at
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: nothing to reach them. So the fact that 622,000 isn't
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: even close to what they wanted should scare us all.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: And the other shoe that hasn't really dropped yet is,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: if you remember after Charlie Kirk's assassination– There was the like,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: we're going to go after Antifa and all the left-wing
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: groups and really crack down on opposition. And it was
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of like sound and furor and not much
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: came of it. And now this week we've seen, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: it's like kicking back up again because after they have
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: decided to kill an unarmed American citizen, you know, J.D.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Vance at the White House briefing today was like, we're
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: going to find the people who fund this. And, you know,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I still don't know how much of it is. Bullshit
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to scare people or how much of it is like
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: suddenly subpoenas are going out and, you know, people are
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: getting sued and dragged to court and that worries me too.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: And I didn't put this in as a question, but
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: they are all doing everything in their power to, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: consolidate the media landscape and the information landscape. to suit
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: their own ends, right?
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Whether it's going after- That's going to be my next question.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Okay, you go.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: You go.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Take it away, boss. I didn't put it on. I
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: didn't know I was going to my last.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: No, that was perfect.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Our segues are so natural now, so we don't even
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: have to go like next question.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: It's like we work at the same office.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It was like, what kind of impact will the Trump
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: MAGA war on independent, objective media have? And that, you know,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: there's a couple dimensions to that, right? That now, again,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: to the boiling frog thing, like after a year, they-
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: So TikTok is back, right? You know, the Chinese gave
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: us TikTok and now there's some consortium, right? So there's
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: some Trump allies that are in there. Elon's still got X.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and Grok.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Right, and Grok. And the AI overlords have kissed Donald
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Trump's ass.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: You know what happens when you kiss ass, John? You
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: just get ass.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: You just get ass. You guys have to listen to,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: who don't know that reference, you have to listen to
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Runaway Country.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: It's a deep cut.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a deep cut. So they are, he's got
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: them on the team. He's got the Ellisons, who now
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: have CBS and are looking to also take Warner Brothers
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: and CNN. Or maybe just CNN, who knows? And Right
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Wing Propaganda Network. That's bigger than ever. And I guess
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: my question is, like, it's happening. How much of an
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: impact does it have this year? And, like, when does
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: it start? When do you start, and maybe we'll never know, but, like,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: when do you start seeing it having an influence on
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: public opinion? Yeah.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think the CBS stuff is a great
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: test case for that, right? Because that's the most insidious, right?
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: There you have legacy brand. You have someone installed, Barry Weiss.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: who is clearly doing the, you know, handiwork of the
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Trump administration.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: And in the most, I suppose we can call it
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: skillful because Barry Weiss is smart. She's very articulate.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: You know, she ran a very successful independent news organization,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: not as successful as the money they.
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: Paid her for it.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: But, you know, she's not, she ain't Sean Spicer, right?
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: And so in that way, it's much more malignant, I think.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: And Tony DeCoppo is not a malignant actor necessarily, but
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: the language he's using, the stories he's covering, the The
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: favor he's currying with the administration is incredibly detrimental.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, we salute you.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: I know. I mean, right. I mean, I actually, I'm
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: giving it, yeah.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: This has surprised me. And like, you can call me naive.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily naive, but I'm just like, Barry Weiss, whatever. Like,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: first of all. Is it really going to be that blatant?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen? The Tony DeCobble stuff in this
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: last week is like, are you fucking kidding me?
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: The Margarita stuff is so, I mean, it's just, I
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: don't think that's effective, first of all, but I also
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: think it's just like so embarrassing.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: It's so embarrassing.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I think the great hope is that, and I say
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: this as someone who worked at CBS and, you know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: took pride in working at CBS for a while, that
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: the evening news has become so utterly irrelevant that they
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: can't actually change.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: It's more of kind of watching a car slowly crash.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Lack of. of intense concern was coming from. Not that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't think they would try, but I was like,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: who's really watching the evening news?
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I just, I don't think it's bad that it
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: gets poisoned on the way down though. Do you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: like that? I don't think it's bad to have news
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: gathering organizations, you know, and the poisoning of it, the
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: irrelevance of it, it's just all fucking bad for information
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: health and our democracy. And that part is really distressing
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to me, you know, destroying CBS. even if it doesn't
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: have an immediate and practical impact on the, you know,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: the sort of citizenry, it's just not a good thing
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: for democracy. And to get away with it is, you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: that's just another way of destroying the fourth estate is
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: to just make it so fucking unwatchable and so gross
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: that it doesn't matter anymore. And that's a model for
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: you know, linear cable, which is increasingly irrelevant, just like
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: map that on to CNN, right?
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: And then like destroy that shit and you're done. Like
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: it's what happened in Hungary.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: They chose to close these newsrooms, right? Which is more
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: aggressive than what the Trump administration is doing. But by
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: installing talentless hacks that nobody believes in and a medium
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: that's increasingly irrelevant, well, then you get rid of like
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: institutional media in a pretty adept way.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's the question of, you know, the
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: sort of right-wing... media conglomerate propaganda network out there versus
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: opinion that is more left-leaning, analysis that's more left-leaning. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: we obviously think about that a lot here. But my
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: big question is, how many people are out there paying
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: for news gathering?
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: How much news gathering is going on and how much
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: of it will be able to continue that is not
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: tainted by fear of Trump?
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Or just, you know, opinionated to sort of match MAGA preferences.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: And, you know, we're sitting here in the week that
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I think the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Gazette.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Closing down.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Shuttering because two psychopaths who own it are trying to
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: own the libs that work for.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: The paper, basically.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And I do wonder, like, just from a news gathering perspective,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: if we're going to be all takes and opinion and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: then AI slop. Yeah. And, you know, creators who, God
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: bless them, but like are people getting, you know, like
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I just, I worry about actual news gathering.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Where does that leave us?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: And who's going to pay?
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: It's just me interviewing some people on Runaway Country. That's
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: not new to the guy. That's just me interviewing people.
• 40:12
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• 42:39
  Speaker 4: All right, Ken.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, speaking of the health of our democracy,
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I do wonder if we still have our representative democracy
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: by the end of this year.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: I hate to go back to the Supreme Court, but
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Think Louisiana versus Calais, where they're looking at Section 2
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: of the Voting Rights Act, which is like probably.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: The end of the Voting Rights Act as we know it,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: something that.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Chief Justice John Roberts has wanted to make real since
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: he was a staffer in Ed Meese's Department of Justice
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: under Ronald Reagan. The conservatives have hated the Voting Rights
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Act for a long time. And now you have a
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: bunch of white people basically suing and saying it's reverse
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: racism to have districts that prioritize minority voices and voters
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: and give them representation in Congress. That's where we're at.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: And I just think you do away with that. And well,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: first of all, the South is gone. And one of
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: the most important sort of reparative mechanisms for our long
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: and checkered institutional racism disappears. And at this moment when
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: we no longer have affirmative action, we have like an
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: administration that says that any kind of civil rights gains
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: are wokeism that need to be reversed, whether they happened in.
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: World War II or yesterday.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: It's a dangerous time. It's a dangerous time for people
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: of color. It's a dangerous time for people who believe
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: in a more inclusive society. And I think the Supreme
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Court decision could have like profoundly, profoundly traumatic after effects
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: on American society.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I don't think it will go well. And
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, from oral arguments, at least. And I do
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: think the only optimistic part is that I think I
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: think it's going to be tough for whatever decision they
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: make to be implemented before these midterms. But that's cold
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: comfort for, you know, generations to come. I also think,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and we've seen that this year with redistricting, that what's
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: going to happen then is sort of a gerrymandering race
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: to the bottom, where if we lose another 10, 15,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: whatever seats in the South because of this decision, then...
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: blue states again are going to go back and be like,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: all right, well, we're going to just wipe out all
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the Republicans. Right. In our district. And then you're going
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: to just have this country that is.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: Completely split.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: Bad. What could go wrong?
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: All right. I have, will a challenger emerge?
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Who seriously threatens J.D. Vance's chance at the Republican nomination
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: in 2028?
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, I love this question. It's so juicy. Isn't it
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: Viceroy Rubio that's going to be the challenger? Or is
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: he the running mate?
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I think he's the running mate. I think he's the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: running mate.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Wait, say more. Okay, who else do you think could
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: be that person?
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So I think one of the reasons that J.D. Vance
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: is just the biggest asshole you've ever seen... uh, in public.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: That's saying something. Right. That's saying something.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Just really, is I, I think his, his running theory
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: is no enemies to your right because that's where the
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: challenge would come from.
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And he is not as charismatic as his boss, Donald Trump.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: He is not as charismatic as many of the figures
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: on the right.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: He's can't order donuts, John.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: He's like the least charismatic human being in America.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: But like he needs to, you know, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, right?
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Like all of the, and I'm not even saying they're,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: But like he needs those people to like him, not
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: just like him, but to love him.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Or at the very least, not to challenge him or
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: not to find challengers for him. And so you have
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: a J.D. Vance who is in some ways his political
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: fortunes are tethered to Donald Trump.
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: As are Marco Rubio's. And so, you know, Trump's popular
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: or middling, then like maybe they're fine. But if Trump
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: gets even worse, gets even less popular, then J.D. Vance's
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: ambitions are fucked and he can't break from Donald Trump.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And so he has to be as extreme as possible.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And I think he happens to believe most of it too.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: But even if he didn't, he would have to be
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: if he wants to be president. And I think that
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: someone on the right could say, if the Trump administration,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: if Donald Trump's sitting at like in the 30s by
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: the end of the year, by the end of next year,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be people on the right who are like,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: That's J.D. Vance that is saddled with that. Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: Not me.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Not me. And he's a fucking pud who is– can't
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: excite a crowd. Awkward.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: He is no– I mean, here, say this about Trump.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Many things can be said. He is incredibly authentic.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: And J.D.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Vance does not have an authentic bone in his body.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: The other thing we're discounting is the sickness of Trump.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: He is going to enjoy the sort of hunger games
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: of the inheritance, much like he does with his children,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: very succession vibes. He will love playing Rubio and Vance
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: off of each other. And I would guess if there
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: is a challenger from the right, he will entertain that
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: person at Mar-a-Lago just to make J.D. Vance and Marco
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Rubio beg and scrape that much harder. I mean, they
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: will be sick and twisted.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Delicious. Lovett and I did– John Heilman's podcast right before.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Heard of him. I was going to say, you've done
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: a show with him or two. Yeah, yeah. Right before
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the break. And he was down on Vance as a nominee,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: but was like, what about, he thinks like Don Jr.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: What do you think about Don Jr.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: Maybe. I think they kind of, it's interesting, right?
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: I think that's tough too.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: I think they like making money. I mean, like, I
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: really think they like being rich, right? I really think
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: they like being rich. Although he seems a little drunk
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: on power. I would not be surprised. it will be
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: Sophie's choice for Donald Trump because I don't think he
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: actually likes his children.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a, I think it's a hard,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I think the Vance Don Jr. thing is hard to
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: like tease out because I don't think Trump Jr. goes
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: after Vance and I don't think Trump sort of allows
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I really do think it, if
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: there's a challenger to Vance, which I think is very possible,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: it is an outsider. It is a Tucker. It is
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: a- T.C.? Megan.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: No. Now let me tell you, no way. She likes
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: that podcasting.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Studio- They all like it, but wouldn't you like a,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: She likes being Charlie of Charlie's Angels. She likes being
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: the voice in the box.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: I can't see that. Tucker. T.C. from the barn to
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: the barnstorm, I can see it. I can see that.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Austin just held up a picture of Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: MTG.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: MTG. Flash in the pan.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: I feel like she's going to come back to me
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: at the end of the year when she's a fucking nominee.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: I just feel like she she can't get like she's
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: done the thing. She's come out too early against Trump.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: I just think that that's just a very hard road
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: to hoe. And I saw her yesterday on TV. Not
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: in real life.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I was just talking to her yesterday.
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: She's like, eh, I'm not into it. We're getting Michelob
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: Ultras at the local bar.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: And she just, she's already, I feel like a discomfort
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: there that is going to get even more pronounced the
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: more real her bid becomes.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: But you know what?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: I should shut the fuck up because I also didn't
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: think Donald Trump was necessarily going to win in 2015.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: What do you got?
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: I got one that is just a complete fucking downer,
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: but it's real relevant. Will medication abortion still be legal
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: by the end of the year?
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: Oh, gosh.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I know.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: We were talking MTG, but this is fucking so real
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: because this is a week in which psychopath, bear killer, like,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: creatine monster Robert F.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Kennedy Jr.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: Has changed the sort of vaccine recommendations for children, getting
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: rid of.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: What did he get rid of?
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: Ha!
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Flu, RSV, rotavirus, hepatitis A, and meningitis. Who needs to
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: be vaccinated against those things? He has done everything he
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: said he wouldn't do in his Senate confirmation. And he
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: never said he wouldn't get rid of mifepristone. And under
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: the head of the FDA, Marty Makary, they have— you know,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: they pledged to conduct a full review of Mifepristone's safety.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: This is a gimme to the hard right. Kennedy has
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: proven himself absolutely fucking shameless when pandering to the political
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: right and has totally politicized the FDA and HHS, um,
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: and the CDC. And I could absolutely see a world
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: in which they get rid of, um, Mifepristone, which is
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: the drug used in most medication abortions, which account for
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: as of 2023, 63% of all abortions.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: Um, We don't talk about abortion.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: And I think there are a lot of reasons for that,
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: not least among them, because it didn't win Democrats 2024.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean the issue isn't insanely urgent. And
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: it is a matter of like national health concern. And
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: it is just as urgent as vaccine schedules and mRNA
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: research and everything else he's doing to fuck with American
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: bodies over at his cabinet agency. So I'm curious to
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: know whether that's something that, you know, people can choose
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: by the end of the year.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: You know, as you started that answer, I thought, okay,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I could see it happening. If I were to bet,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I would bet against it only because Donald Trump has
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: seemed skittish in going too hard right on that issue
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: for purely political reasons. And a bunch of Republicans in
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: more competitive areas feel the same way for either real
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: reasons or political reasons. But to our whatever question we
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: asked a couple before this, on the gerrymandering race to
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the bottom as the country gets more polarized. And there are,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, are there a bunch of Republicans
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: in blue states that we're worried about now? Less, certainly less.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: And you start to worry that like, wouldn't the right,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: who have now outlawed abortion in most red states, love
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: to stick it to the blue states.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: You can't get pregnant and have a miscarriage in a
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: red state.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: Like that's where we're at.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: So the idea that they would make it If not illegal,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: very difficult to access medication abortion seems very possible.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: It would be a stupid fucking thing to do in
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: a midterm year. Yes. I will say.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: But could happen in, you know, December.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Or in early January.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: If I was, I bet Susie Wiles and Trump himself
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: are like, hey, we want to win the midterms? Right.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Let's cool it.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: Simmer down.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Let's wait.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: Let's just make sure kids can die of polio and
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: results before them.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that we're okay with. Yeah, cool. But who knows?
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Who knows? Who knows?
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• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Is Gavin Newsom still the front runner at this time
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: next year?
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: Big question.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: How was his podcast? You were just up there.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: I was just up there. He gave me a full
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: tour of the Governor's Mansion. For people who like street art,
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: there is a rotating series of art exhibits in the
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: Governor's Mansion, including a collection of Barry McGee surfboards. If
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: you know who Barry McGee, a.k.a.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: Twist is, a former graffiti writer who now is part
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: of the collection at LACMA.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: He's amazing.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: And I walked in and I was like, this is
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: fucking awesome. And he was like, you know who Barry
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: McGee is? And I was like, you know who Barry
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: McGee is? And then I was like, you are never
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: going to get elected president. You cannot know who Barry
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: McGee is and get elected president. That's too fucking street smart.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom is a delightful interviewer. I will say we
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: had a great time.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: He's really good at it.
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: He is very good.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: Surprisingly good because most people who are politicians... Are completely self-involved.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: And he, I think surprisingly, like deeply curious. And he's
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: a chatter, you know. I think he has a lot
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: of passion for the job. I think there's going to
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: be just a massive question about the California of it all, right?
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: It's the biggest one for me.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: It's the biggest one.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: I have long thought that you need someone that is
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: as memeable or can drive the meme machine the way
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: that Trump does and has the zero fucks, Yosemite Sam
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: style arsenal.
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: And he's that dude.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: He's establishing himself early as by far the most joyful
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: warrior in the pack. I just wonder if it is
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: off-putting to the very earnest Democratic Party that looks at
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: the stakes and it's just like, It's hard to know.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's very hard for me to understand how
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: he plays to a party that right now is largely
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: oriented against Trump and has definitely not declared what it
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: is for and how it wants to be for those things.
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: Do you know? So I'm not answering your question.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: No, but I mean, I've been thinking about this for
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: a while because I, again, the more I watch Gavin Newsom,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: get to know Gavin Newsom, like talk to, you know,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: interview him, be interviewed on his, the more I like him. Yeah.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And I really appreciate like what he has been doing
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: to fight not just in California, but nationally.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: For the party. As we get closer to an actual
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I do. There's part of me that always thinks like, oh,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: this is a California governor.
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: This California. Yeah.
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: So California.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: It's not about him necessarily. It's just about like.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: Although I did think like, should I suggest he wear
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: his hair differently? Like if he wants a better shot.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: That is something.
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: Cut it shorter.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: But did you read the Atlantic profile on him?
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: I started to, but I was literally going to meet
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: the man and I just had like a heavy dose
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: of Gavin Newsom that day.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: And much respect, Governor. It just was a lot of you.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: It's just there's a couple of things. They talked about
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the California of it all. And they were like, you know,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: another reason for hesitation might be that California has other
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: laws that must have the makers of Republican attack ads
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: salivating with anticipation. In 2020, the state passed SB 132,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: allowing male criminals to self-identify into women's prisons. One of
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: those transferred, Tremaine Carroll, is awaiting trial on charges of
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: raping two female inmates. It's like, okay.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: Again, this is just like- This is Kamala Harris.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: I know. And again, when I first heard that story,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, that seems, and you like look
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: it up and you're like, okay, well, there's a law
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: and you get it. And you're like, okay, well, if
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: you're going to provide everyone medical care, and then you're
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: going to say that transition care is medical care, you know, like,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: One thing leads to another and it makes sense in context.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: But then when you see it, you're like, oh, okay,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: that's going to be a challenge.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: And he's just very, like, he's very California. Yeah. Like,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: he fits the bill of a California, you know, it
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: was like they talked about his wedding to his current wife.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: And it was like, you know, the ceremony was conducted
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: by Carol Simone, a modern-day mystic whose website describes her
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: as a medium and astrology. I mean, can I just
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: pause and say, Donald? He's the most California shit ever.
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: And, like, we elected a serial philanderer. And, like, he
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: has been married a trillion times and had affairs with
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: porn stars.
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: And yet we're like, don't you dare.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Get married by a mystic. Donald Trump is a good
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: code switcher in that, like, he is, you know, Manhattan–
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: He's not Manhattan. He's out of borough. And he's rich,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: but he's sort of like, he's got a chip on
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: his shoulder about being rich. So he's sort of, you know,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: so there's, he's got that. Barack Obama had his feet
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: in 10 different worlds. Like Bill Clinton, Oxford, Arkansas, right?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Like the Joe Biden, right? Like the people who succeed
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: in politics nationally can identify with the other part of
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: the country, if not by resume and identity, then by
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: just some experience in their life, some feel. And maybe
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: he has that. Maybe he can do that.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, we haven't seen, I mean, we haven't
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: seen this sort of talking tour yet. He is going
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: to have a memoir come out in February. He will
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: be on tour for that. And it will be an
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: interesting case study. And, um, his, what is it, press-the-flesh skills.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: But who else? Who else do you think?
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Listen, we had a conversation with Big Dem over the break,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: and she was saying J.B.
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: Pritzker is who she liked.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: We— She thought she had been taking regular doses of
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Mount Jaro in preparation for that.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Oof.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: Her words, not mine.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: I think they're going to see some governors. Josh Pirro
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: is going to be up in the mix. Maybe Gretchen
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: Whitmer raises her hand. I think Wes Moore is absolutely
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: going to be on people's dance cards.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe Gallego is out there.
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's going to be a pretty
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: big field. Hopefully not like so big as to be unwieldy.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: But listen....
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: No one's... No one's popping out for me ahead of
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: the pack right now.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's why it's just Gavin Newsom and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: his tote bags with Kid Rock and the laying of
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: the hands. I think that that is the greatest meme
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I've ever fucking seen.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: It's really funny.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: If you're listening to us, Gavin Newsom's social media team,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: please make that into a tote bag.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: People will buy it. All right. I got my– is
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: this my sixth?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't even know which number I was on.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: I'm going to– this is my– well, this is my sixth,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: but I can continue to ask questions. What will the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: White House actually look like?
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: Okay. So here's the news.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Here's the news, John, today. Actually, this is news of
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: the week, but there's always news about the White House.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: The ballroom is going to be now as tall as
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: the main mansion itself.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. Which means we also have to add on
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: to the West Wing.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: Well, exactly.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: So they're considering a one-story addition to the West Wing's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: colonnade in an effort to create symmetry with the two-story
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: colonnade that would lead from the White House to the ballroom.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: And then there's going to be maybe an office suite
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: for the first lady, which would be nice since they
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: destroyed any office she once had in a reconstructed White
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: House movie theater. Well, thank God they can screen more
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Sly Stallone films, I guess, in full 4K HD or
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: whatever the fuck it is. Point is, he is completely
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: rebuilding the White House.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: It is not going to resemble itself by whatever, whenever
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: construction is complete.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: It's shocking.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: It's going to look like. Another Trump Tower.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: God.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: And I would not be surprised if he just puts
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the fucking name Trump in gold. I made this joke
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: to Dan on Thursday's, Friday's podcast. Recycle it.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: It's okay.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's the, we did this for the 2011 Correspondents Dinner.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: We had a big slide up, big picture of, oh God,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: if Donald Trump did run for president, this is what
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: the White House would look like. And it's, we should
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: put it up on the screen.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: You were Cassandra.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: It looks very close.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: Even where you were in the predictions business.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. To what it's where it's headed.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: Well, he's got to remember who lives there, right?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: Isn't that what they're saying is the reason that everything's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: labeled right now in the White House with this hideous
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: gold lettering that really looks like the kind of lettering
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: you'd see on a restroom door is because he's so
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: addled and so forgetful and his brain isn't working right
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: that he needs reminders about like, this is the Oval Office.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: This is the Situation Room. And this is the White
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: House where Trump lives.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: This is where you live, sir.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Yep. But, you know, I mean, it's no surprise that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: architects keep resigning from this project.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: It's so fucking controversial.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: And without being like the worst downer in America, it's
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: also symbolic of the work it's going to take to
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: rebuild our fucking country after this person is out of office.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: Like he is fundamentally changing institutions. He's rebuilding our democracy.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say rebuilding because he's destroying the democracy,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: but he's rebuilding American society in a very.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: In his image.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: In his image.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: And.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: It's going to take time, just like undoing his hideous
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: renovation of the White House is going to take, I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: don't know, how long is that going to take? Who's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: going to do that? And who's going to do it
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: with what money? You know, it's a metaphor for everything
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: else he's doing. So I'm curious to see what it looks.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: Like in December.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Well, it made me think, too, sort of my last,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: it's like a smaller question, but I started the episode
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: by mentioning it's like the 250th birthday for America. And
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I do wonder how much the birthday, the anniversary... is
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: going to matter in 2026 because they are going to
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: go all out for that. And I think that in
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: an election year and in a year where people are
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: starting to think about 2028, there is, and this happens
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: in America when there are centennials, bicentennials, like there is
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: going to be a debate over the meaning of America,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: the meaning of what it is to celebrate America's 250th anniversary.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is going to be in control of that, unfortunately.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: He's got the White House thing. They're going to do fireworks.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: Military parade.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: This is going to be a big thing.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: Jingoism run amok.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a big thing in the summer.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: And they're going to want to bait, you know, they're
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: going to, you know, America hating libs. And they talked down.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: And so we're going to have to have a. good
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: response to that about the America that we love.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: Well, and also nobody owns the flag. Nobody owns the flag.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Nobody owned the White House either.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I know.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: You know, I wonder if there's a drug that will
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: induce a Rip Van Winkle like state for all of
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: us so we can just fucking wake up at the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: end of the year instead of living through all of it.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: Like if this is the first week, stop this train.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: I want to get off.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: I look forward to our end of the year Pod
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Save America episode where You're going to have to come
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: for that. And we can talk about you and I
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: doing these questions.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: We need to run it back. And MTG will be
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: running the official nominee.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: We're going to have so many clips to play. Oh, fuck.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: If we miss any good questions also and you're listening,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: let us know.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: Please.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: What other questions?
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: If we, we definitely, definitely miss any good questions.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: There was one that I wanted to, not to freak
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: everyone out, but, I mean, maybe it won't. You'll know
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: that the Republicans are legitimately worried about losing the Senate. Yeah.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Not just the House. Yeah. If. if we start getting
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: retirement from, announcement from our friends, Sam Alito and or
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, fuck.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: They are definitely going to do that. They are definitely
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: going to. Let me just say, they are going to.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: At the end of this term, there will be two
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: vacancies in the Supreme Court. No question. I think that's
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: almost without question.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting because if they lose the Senate, they
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: can't do it.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: But if they announce their retirements in June, they can
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: get confirmation started in September.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: And you know.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: But it's a gauge a little bit of how.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Confident they are that they'll keep the Senate. I think they're.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Because they could do it in the lame duck even
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: if they lose the Senate. But that's also– imagine Sam
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Alito and or Thomas announcing their retirement in like November
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: and then they suddenly get– I guess they could.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're going to do it at the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: end of the term. The problem is like will the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: conservative zygote that is going to replace them be fully
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: hatched by them because they're going to nominate someone in utero.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: It's just going to be like an AI chatbot, like
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: a right-wing AI chatbot that's been like trained on fucking
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Alex Jones.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: Live forever.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: Live forever.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Anyway, on that note, Happy New Year!
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: Happy 2026!
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy. Alex, this was fun.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: Was it?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: I had a good time. I did, I did, I did.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me, buddy.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks, everyone, for listening. We'll be back in your feed
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: with a new episode of Pod Save America on Tuesday.
• 1:06:10
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  Speaker 1: episode and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: America is a Cricket Media production. Our producers are David Toledo,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Emma Illick-Frank, and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari.
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