Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #239: Corporate Capture: How Bayer Infiltrated the USDA and HHS & The Sauerkraut Solution

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Episode #239: Corporate Capture: How Bayer Infiltrated the USDA and HHS & The Sauerkraut Solution · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Monsanto never conducted cancer studies on Roundup.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: They live on K Street.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: They are there every day.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they have one agenda to advance the success of Bayer Corporation.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Connections to the Trump administration from Bayer involve a group of Florida lobbyists who hold power in Trump's Washington.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everybody to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your co-host, Joel Salatin, the farmer, with our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: We have spent a fair amount of time actually in the last couple of episodes dealing with the whole glyphosate issue, the entire uh the national security um uh presidential order that uh Trump that President Trump issued uh a few weeks ago.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um today we're going to take it just a little bit further because there turns out to be a fair amount of um ties, if you will.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just we'll just threads tying Bayer Corporation, which is the primary maker and holder of glyphosate with um President Trump.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so here to bring us the scoop is Cena.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Joel.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: All right, this was what you and I had been talking about on these previous episodes of the podcast regarding this executive order and trying to figure out where did this come from?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Why did this happen?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And like we have always said, you follow the money, right?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's always a revolving door.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Stacey Malcolm at uh U.S.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right to Know has done a fantastic job uh publishing some articles where she's actually tracing Bayer's ties to power in Trump's Washington.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to give you uh just a few examples of these close ties.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think some of these might be a little bit surprising and disappointing for people.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And those of us who have always been skeptical of the government think, oh, it's it's just another Monday.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, right.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so um, but hopefully this might wake some people up to you know what we're talking about, that you're not gonna have a top-down saving.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is from bottom up.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I want to share this before I jump into explaining the details of these ties.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I saw Vanny uh on the high wire, you know, the food babe.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: She was um with Dell Bigtree on the high wire talking about glyphosate, this executive order, and how she was feeling about it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I kid you not, Joel.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, okay, as horrible as this executive order is, just like we were hoping, it is waking some people up to realizing that the people are the solution.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Here is a direct quote from the food babe there is nobody in government that is gonna come to our rescue.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: We the people have to do this.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: We the people have to solve this issue.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh man.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: They've seen the light.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So people are waking up.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even the even the food bay on uh Dell's on Dell's show.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what has been reported that is starting to wake people up.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So Bayer is reportedly um spending about$9.19 million on lobbying Congress and the executive branch, and that was just in 2025.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So over$9 million in lobbying.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: That includes fees paid to at least 13 outside lobbying firms.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then as of the fourth quarter of 2025, so last quarter, 45 lobbyists were registered to lobby for Bayer, and they were registered under the Lobby and Disclosure Act.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there may be more, we don't know.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's just how many have been disclosed.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when Stacy reviewed Bayer's access in Washington, Stacy found 22 key administration officials with ties to Bayer's lobbying or their legal network.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Bayer, she says Bayer and its lobbyists have access to people in power at the White House, at the U.S.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Department of Agriculture, at the Environmental Protection Agency, and even those in high-level positions closest to Trump.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll add in here, they also have access to people at HHS.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: So uh there's more than 30 senior officials at lobbying firms retained by Bayer that have direct tries to Trump.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Having worked in one or both of his administrations or on his political campaigns.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: She said, taken together, there's a network of aligned actors positioned across the basically all the American institutions.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: These people write the rules for pesticides, they enforce the rules for the pesticides, and they defend them in court.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And these decisions that they make that are shaped by Bayer's access to the Trump administration affect all of the pesticide regulations, how the chemicals are um assessed by the regulatory bodies.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: They also influence the farm, the nation's farm policy and the ability of Americans to seek justice in court.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So everything we've been talking about ties to all these people that she's connected.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to start with.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Cena, it's just funny that when you start throwing out these uh these numbers, like 45 registered lobbyists.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know if um if you've been to Washington very many times, you know, with a like a with a group to lobby for something.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've been involved with some of that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: The most recent one was this um this crated pork stuff, you know, the California proposition to um that that you can't that they won't allow uh feroing crated pigs to be sold in California.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you know, it's a it's a major, major effort by any group that's trying to get a voice to get you know a handful of people up to DC to do something.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you just throw out forty-five registered lobbyists, in other words, they live on K Street, they are there, they are there every day, and they have one agenda that is to advance the success of Bayer Corporation, and they're there every day, all day, with one agenda.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it and and and and you go up there with any group on some issue, and you know, yeah, sometimes a a pretty good-sized group can get, you know, 50, 60 people together, but you know, they come and they and and they're there for a day or two, get as many visits as they can in, and then leave.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they they're they're not there.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: If they came on Tuesday and Wednesday, they're not there on Thursday and Friday.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so the just I think the average person, if you've never been there with a lobbying group on an issue, just to throw out 45 registered lobbyists for one business, one corporation, is uh I I to me that's just staggering.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's staggering.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is staggering because, like you said, I mean it's practically like they have cots set up in the offices of these congressmen and women, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that literally is what they do, yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is just try to get things passed on behalf of these companies.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And as we're going through some of these connections, I would like people to keep in mind that Monsanto never conducted cancer studies on Roundup.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't think that a lot of people think about that as we're throwing out numbers and throwing out names of people.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: But um the company was adamant about Roundup was safe to eat and didn't cause cancer, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: We heard this over and over from them.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: But in a deposition, the lead toxicologist stated that she cannot say that Roundup does not cause cancer because she said we, you know, at Monsanto have not done the cancer studies with Roundup.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like most chemicals, Monsanto only conducted in-house testing on glyphosate as a single ingredient.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the EPA only evaluated glyphosate as a single ingredient.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: But the full formulation that's sprayed on craps wasn't tested because the surfactants and the other additives are considered inert coformulants.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're exempt from toxicity testing.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if you look at the science, the commercial glyphosate formulation can be up to a thousand times more toxic than even glyphosate alone because of those coformulants.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: So all these studies that Monsanto and now Bayer is hinging this decision on and is and is going to these elected officials and lobbying them and saying these things are safe.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And look, the EPA said it's safe.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: But all those studies that they conducted, the whole paperwork trail that the EPA used to approve glyphosate doesn't even matter because none of it applies to the real world.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: One ingredient was tested and approved, but a chemical cocktail is applied to our food.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So these lobbyists are using this type of information to sway what's happening in the farm bill, you know, in um at the EPA, even at HHS.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so just keep that in mind when we go through these names, that it was never even tested.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, they're using faulty data, faulty information, absent information to try to convince people that we elected to push things through, like the immunity shield.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's in the farm bill.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's serious.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's serious what they're doing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, in my opinion, it's criminal.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the most potent connections to the Trump administration from Bayer involve a group of Florida lobbyists and former lobbyists who hold power in Trump's Washington.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: These three people are the chief of staff, Susie Wiles, the U.S.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Attorney General, Pam Bondi, and Brian Ballard.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: So Brian Ballard employed both Bondi and Wiles as lobbyists for years before they they joined the Trump administration.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go through these one at a time.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: So Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, she's one of Trump's most powerful advisors in Washington.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: She worked for Ballard Partners.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So Brian Ballard, Brian Ballard founded um Ballard Partners.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, he was a key Trump campaign fundraiser.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: He reportedly raised over$50 million for the 2024 campaign, and he served on Trump's 2024 inaugural and transition finance committee.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he previously represented the Trump organization as a Florida lobbyist.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So his firm employed that chief of staff, Susie Wiles.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and by the way, also employed um Pam Bondi.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she uh Wiles worked for Balor Partners as a lobbyist um and then partner for a decade until 2022.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And from 20, um, I think it's 2016 to 2022, she also worked as a senior advisor to Trump's presidential campaigns.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so at this, so she basically at the same time she worked for both.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now Ballard and his firm, Ballard Partners, they're they're a big, big player.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: They became the highest earning lobbying firm in DC in 2025.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: They actually set a record for the most lucrative year of any lobbying firm in U.S.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: history.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they registered to lobby for Bayer in December of 2024.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this person who founded this company, who was a huge fundraising support for Trump and part of the inaugural and transition committees, uh, set a record for lobbying, and part of that lobbying was for Bayer.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: The firm also now lobbies for the American Chemistry Council.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's a trade group that induced, uh includes Bayer among its you know, other members.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about the American Chemistry Council recently on this podcast when I mentioned how um the EPA had reapproved the dangerous drone, drone prone pesticide Dicamba.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember we were talking about that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: That was after um, and people are like, how do these things happen?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because a federal court had already decided in 2020 and 2024 that the EPA's previous approvals of that weed killer was unlawful.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And yet this new Trump EPA got it approved under Kyle Cunker.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um I went through and I traced for you guys how Cunker worked under two former lobbyists for the American Chemistry Council who are, you know, now part of the EPA together.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So once again, now we're tying that, those people, the American Chemistry Council, back to Ballard's partners, who's directly tied to um Trump and funding for him and the campaign.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now Ballard had a partner, Daniel, Daniel McFall.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: He also served on Trump's 2016 and 2017 presidential transition team.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, the there he's also registered to lobby for both Bayer and the American Chemical Council.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Those two, the two organizations have paid Ballard partners a combined half a million dollars was elected the second time.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's according to federal lobby disclosures.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the American Chemistry Council's priorities priorities this year is revisiting the Toxic Substances Control Act.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the nation's main toxic chemicals law.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's a new Republican bill that is trying to narrow or reduce the scientific evidence that regulators use to assess the health risk.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it would give the chemical companies, this should kind of sound familiar for anyone who listens to our program who knows about grass, generally recognized as safe.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: This should sound familiar and raise a red flag for you.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: The bill also would give chemical companies a larger role in assessing how their products are evaluated.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that's all being pushed by the American Chemistry Council and this firm that has ties to Trump, uh, and Bondi and Wiles, the chief of staff, um, you know, is is all tied to this American Chemistry Council.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the Attorney General Bondi, she leads the Justice Department, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So she has wide, broad powers over federal legal strategy and the government's position in court.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So just like Chief of Staff Wiles, Bondi moved back and forth between her lobbyist job at Ballard Partners and roles supporting Trump.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, she joined Ballard Partners in January of 2019, and she launched and chaired the firm's corporate regulatory compliance practice.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: She then left later that year to assist Trump's legal defense for his first impeachment inquiry.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Then she rejoined Ballard Partners for five years from 2020 to 2025 before taking the top job in the Justice Department.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, right?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can't even make this stuff up.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is so bad.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you were trying to create a um a tangled web of collusion, you couldn't orchestrate it more seamlessly than this tapestry that's that's real.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so here's one more lobbying firm, and I will link this um these few reports that she has published because the list goes on and on.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: It would take us at least two hours to go through everybody here.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna give you some highlights.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: So another bear tie to Wiles, the chief of uh staff, um, is the lobbying and public relations firm Mercury Public Affairs.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So his chief of staff um was co-chair of Mercury from 2022 to November 2024, just prior, immediately prior to joining the White House.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: That firm registered to lobby for Bayer in August of 2025.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: While she was at Mercury, Wiles also served as co-chair of Trump's presidential campaign in 2023 and 2024.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: So literally, there's not even distance between working with one of these, you know, Bayer promoting organizations.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're literally doing them at the same time, working for both at the same time.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now here's another person, another aide close to Trump in 2025 was Trent Morse.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was a senior associate at Ballard's at Ballard Partners from 2020 to 2022.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Then he moved to Mercury Public Affairs as the senior vice president.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And as deputy assistant to the president and deputy director of presidential uh personnel for eight months, he was part of the team responsible for recruiting, vetting, and recommending candidates for political appointments throughout the entire executive branch.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Then he left the White House in August for another lobbying job.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: So now these are the people who are appointing the other people to be in the White House, okay?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't stop at the White House.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now we have ties to the USDA.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So this is um ties in the USDA to Bayer.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is a big deal because the U.S.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Department of Agriculture oversees farm policy, the crop systems, biotechnology approvals.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: So like GMO, CRISPR technology, things like this.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how who is going to get subsidies, the farm subsidies, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Remember the farm bill came out?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was like, you know, was that make what was it called?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Make America Beautiful Again or something?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or America's Big Beautiful Bill, something like that that Trump passed to farm building Mexico.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: America's Big Beautiful Bill, yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like, well, what happened?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: What happened to helping the organic, the regenerative, the small farmers?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It looked like more of the same stuff.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, here you go.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the USDA also oversees what research is being done.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And as you and I reported in a recent podcast, lots of this research is going to regenerative ag.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, just kidding.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to, I'm like drum roll.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, lots of this research is going to precision agriculture.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, who does precision agriculture largely, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: These large, um, big big ag, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so it's really important that you have unbiased people in the Department of Ag because it determines a lot of what's grown, what's researched, and what ends up in our food.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So here's just a couple examples.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Stephen Um Vaden or Vaden, he's the deputy secretary of agriculture.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's a former associate of Jones Day, which is a firm that represented Bayer on its acquisition of Monsanto.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's also um associated with Squire Patton Boggs from 2011 to 2014.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: They represented Bayer and Monsanto in cases involving glyphosate and PCBs.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So literally worked for the firm that was representing Bayer and Monsanto in cases against glyphosate.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, then one more for the USDA, although there's many listed here.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Richard Um Fordyce.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's the under-secretary for farm production and conservation.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's the former agriculture uh agricultural business growth director for the public relations and marketing firm Osborne Barr um Paramour.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's Bayer's PR agency.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was their PR agency for years.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was a former director of the United States.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Soybean board.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: He was the administration, administrator of the farm service agency in Trump's first team.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: So literally worked with the form of the firm that was Bayer's PR agency for years.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So again, that list goes on and on.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: But so that's the USDA.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um we reported on, you know, the Trump administration, they filed that that new brief urging the Supreme Court to side with Bayer in the high-stakes legal case that would basically wipe out those like thousands and thousands of cancer lawsuits.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that that decision has not been rendered yet.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: That Supreme Court, that case is still winding its way along.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: As of the recording of this podcast, we're still waiting for that.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've actually written it in my calendar of when, so I can be prepared to look for it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that brief, three out of the nine U.S.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: officials who signed that brief previously worked for law firms representing Bayer.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, which is a big deal, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: The this brief that is literally trying to nudge the Supreme Court to basically give immunity, glyphosate immunity.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now we have the EPA.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, these are just so that we are not losing anybody, this is the this is the these are all the litigants, and there are like a hundred thousand of them uh who allege non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the main one, um, as a result of glyphosate who have who have class action sued Bayer.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's been ongoing, you know, now for a couple of years.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um is why I think, you know, Bayer, Bayer thought they could win judicially, they didn't.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so then they tried to win legislatively, and it got stripped out of the farm bill, the indemnity.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so now they're trying to win at the executive, and they got the the um emergency national security protection from the White House.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you can see very easily why the White House of all the products, all the brands, all the things out there that you could pick, um, you know, picked uh glyphosate.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether you're aware of it, Cena, but I did a satirical piece that's in Akers USA.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's been in the electronic version already.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the April edition of the print edition, uh, a satirical piece saying, well, uh if if we're gonna start, you know, if we're gonna start picking uh uh brands and products for national security, um I think uh I think a polyface chicken pot pie should be the one that really gets uh that kind of designation.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the beauty of that is it really is illegal.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's already not being made and um and would really be beneficial.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh anyway, it it's it's it's all it's all poking fun at at the um well, you gotta laugh to keep from crying.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um to you know to to to just point out this is this is unprecedented to select a single brand, a single product, and and say that it is I mean, we haven't done that to Apple computers, we haven't done that, we didn't do that to the Kardashians, we didn't do that to TikTok, we haven't done that to anything of all the brands and all the products, glyphosate, got the designation of national security.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it gets worse because if if the Supreme Court does side with Trump and or the pesticide liability shield gets pushed through the farm bill on the federal level, then it it could potentially exempt all pesticides.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just to make sure everybody gets it, the language exempts pesticides that EPA renders safe.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, it doesn't give a blanket uh across, just like I'm assuming the maybe you know this, you know, I don't, the the vaccine shield gave indemnity to all vaccines approved by the FDA.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, it didn't just say anybody can make a vaccine and and you're indemnified.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but if the government says you're you're okay, that's when the indemnity kicks in.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, when you go through this list, you realize just how uh owned, how owned the the when we say the government approved, uh when we say that, how much that's owned by the actual companies.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's not so many people think, and I I don't understand it, so many people think that when you say the government or an agency, the FDA, whatever, as if there's some sort of um like like there's some sort of disembodied, un by unprejudiced, you know, uh um self-existing entity over here, you know, with no uh fully independent.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, fully independent, right, right.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and looking out for your health.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're completely bought and paid for and owned by these threads that that you're on that you're uh putting together for us right here.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, bless her heart for the U.S.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right to Know Um group that's that's put this together in such fantastic form.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos for them.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: They did put a lot of work into chasing down these connections.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's the thing, is like, you know, when people ask, how do we get to this point?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: It in large part it does come down to this revolving door.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And as you see, you don't have to have every single person in the government agency, like in the EPA, in the USDA, in the FDA.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Not all of them are on the take.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have to have every person um part of this revolving door.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: What you do need is just a handful of people in powerful enough positions.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what they've done a great job of laying out here.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you get this revolving door, and then you get the corruption that we see.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: But okay, so let's do um continue on with Bayer, or sorry, with EPA.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So the EPA, um, you know, they're in, they they obviously influence what chemicals and pesticides are approved and how the products are actually regulated.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they're saying the chemical industry lobbyists now occupy the top four jobs at the EPA's Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: That is the division that's in charge of regulating chemicals and pesticides.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the top four jobs are taken.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So here's just uh, you know, by um people with connections to Bayer.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Here's one example.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, David uh Photoauhi.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's F-O-T-O-U-H-I.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: So David is EPA's deputy administrator.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: He has moved between senior roles at the EPA and the law firm law firm Gibson, Dunn, and Crutcher, which has represented Monsanto, which is now a Bayer.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they represented them in litigations involving highly toxic and persistent PCBs.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Gibson Dunn served as counsel for Monsanto in a case brought by 169 Clark County, Nevada employees who claimed illness from toxic contamination.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Another one involving PCB contamination in Vermont schools.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: The firm also represented Monsanto before the Washington Supreme Court in litigation brought by teachers, alleging serious health harms from PCB exposure.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he practiced at Gibb Dunn from 2011 to 2012.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: He joined the first Trump EPA from 2017 to 2021.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: He was a deputy general counsel, um principal deputy general counsel and acting general counsel.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then he returned to Gibson Dunn as partner from 2021 to 2025.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: And now he has rejoined the EPA.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure there is no bias there at all.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so then there's here's one more from the EPA, Nancy Beck.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: She's the principal deputy assistant administrator um at the um OCSPP.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is the what I mentioned is the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention at the EPA.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was the senior director at the American Chemistry Council, that that lobbying group I talked about that represents Bayer, Dow Chemical, and DuPont, the one who helped get Daikava reapproved.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um she was there from 2012 to 2017 in Trump's first EPA.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: She held advisory roles within the White House.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Between Trump administrations, she worked at Hunton Andrews Kirth, which is a law firm that offers, among other things, uh among other services, glyphosate litigation defense to companies facing lawsuits from cancer claims.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So literally directly tied to it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, then we have a tie um to Health and Human Services, HHS, which is where the FDA is housed.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: So an assistant secretary of legislation at the U.S.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Department of Health and Human Services is Gary Andrews or Andres.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's a primary liaison between HHS and Congress.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: He was previously the senior executive vice president of public affairs at the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, which is the main trade group for biotechnology companies, including Bayer.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: At that organization, he directed the lobbying strategy for the entire biotech sector, which included defending the regulatory framework for GMOs and the associated agrochemicals like glyphosate.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he previously worked at lobbying for um Dutgo Worldwide, which has represented Bayer.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So his job was actually lobbying for the for having GMOs and glyphosate.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And now he's, you know, the primary liaison between HHS and Congress.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's all.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um these guys knock down some pretty big salaries.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these aren't these aren't uh$80,000 a year people.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are these are a million dollar a year people or more.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at the news of the struggling farmer, um I mean when when farming doesn't hit the pages of Wall Street Journal much, but um I can tell you that far uh agriculture is definitely you know hitting some pretty high media marks right now.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um there just seems to be a a real um concern uh you know that a bloodbath is coming similar to the early 1980s uh in American agriculture.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and this company and these people, they all purport to work for the farmer.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't help but say it, I'm sorry, uh, we farmers can't afford these people.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um they they are not they are not helping agriculture.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's what they say they're doing, but when you look at the state of American agriculture, uh and the I mean, I just saw an article yesterday about the adaptation of things to um even now to GMOs, that already there is there is um you know genetic adaptation to GMOs.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um you know, where do you end this?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and so you you have to you you have to move toward a philosophical uh watershed.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um because these guys, you know, are in their labs, they use big words, and they and they walk around like they own the place.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and so those of us who take a much more humble I don't know, we're we're pushed out because uh how can you be so ignorant?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean you don't know?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how a mitochondria works.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know how you know um how the epigenetics work.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but but these folks just wade into this like a bunch of swashbuckling pirates, like they own the place and can take it over and knock down big bucks while while their constituency mainline agriculture, their constituency, um suffers.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean they're it definitely seems like a one-way street and they're very out of touch with farmers.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean you actually called it out from the very beginning.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when um Brooke Rollins was chosen, right, and you expressed on this show that you know it wouldn't have been your first pick and you weren't that thrilled about it.
• 36:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it turns out you were right.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're all they're just marching to the same tune, you know.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you know, these these these folks, they they um, you know, they appoint people that won't challenge them.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I I mean, this is that's why you will you'll never see, you know, a homeschooler appointed to the public school, the the school board, you know.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, uh you'll never you'll never see a uh you know, a Presbyterian appointed to a Methodist uh church synod, you know.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um that we we we we all tend to migrate to our you know our our tribe, if you will, our our philosophical and values-based tribe, and and why should we think that the most powerful halls of the world uh wouldn't have their same mentality?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I keep coming back to our founding principle is that it the power really does lie within the people.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So now we know this, right?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: We we know that they have all these ties.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: We know that I mean my goodness, I I want to think that you know, Kennedy went into the position at um at HHS with you know, like a pure heart and pure intentions of what he wanted to do.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it seems like if that is true, if we give him that benefit of the doubt, I you know, part of me wonders, did he know?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did he already know about all these ties?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, was he used?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Did he go into it knowingly?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because like where does that leave him?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and clearly, you know, people have been reporting, well, he's reigning in Kennedy, whatnot.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: And part of me thinks, like, I don't know that Trump thought that Maha was gonna have as big of an impact as it has, you know?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I think, yeah, I think I think you're right about that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, goodness, Trump, Trump still thinks that his um warp speed, warp speed COVID MRNA jab was still his one of his greatest accomplishments.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what he ought to be doing is kneeling down and repenting in sackcloth and ashes.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, that's not gonna happen.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's Trump.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly not from Trump.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but but you know, uh it in honesty, that's what ought to happen, but of course it won't.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um and this also obviously gives uh you know, gives some reason why um, you know, RFK Jr.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: in his uh when once he endorsed the glyphosate and set off a firestorm within the Maha community, I mean that is a firestorm.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, our friend at uh mom's mom's across America, uh Zen Honeycutt.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's been very aggressive of saying that RFK Jr.'s endorsement of the glyphosate um national security uh executive order um has well uh the last quote I saw from her, she said it just cost it just cost the Republicans the midterm and might have cost the Republicans the entire 2028 presidential uh race because it has so fractured uh what was the word she used?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: She says it's it's like um it's like you got invited to a wedding and you found out that the or you're you're the bride invited to a wedding and you found out the groom is a crook, you know.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I mean I mean she Wow I haven't seen her use the word betrayal, but she's used everything but betrayal.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um and yeah, she's a pretty powerful voice.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think has I think she if anybody um represents the heart of Maha, it's Zen Honeycutt.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if our listeners don't know who she is, look her up.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Zen Honeycut.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I I don't agree with everything from her, but she if you want to see the the pulse of Maha, she's she's as good as any, you know, to see.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and she's saying some pretty uh pretty tough things.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so in his damage control, RFK has come out saying, well, the answer is is this uh precision agriculture stuff, you know, where we where we zap things with lasers and we're gonna go down to using AI to identify weeds, and we're gonna go down through and zap things with lasers.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the the problem is that these machines are extremely expensive, sophisticated, and uh, and are certainly not um not usable for a lot of reasons, you know, by small farmers.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're only usable, you know, by great big farmers and primarily um vegetable, you know, high high income.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're nowhere close to being viable for regular commodity crops like you know, corn, soybeans, and things like that.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um so you know, you know, I I read that and I say, you know, where where is he getting this?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where's this coming from?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who's who's feeding him?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's being fed by these by these interests.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll add, you know, we we talked about the precision ag laser technology on the show previously, but you know, it also means that there's going to be more 5G and potentially 6G rolled out across our land and, you know, farmland, exposing the food to that as well.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's um that that language is actually in the new farm bill.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see where that one's going.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: We know that one passed out of committee, uh, you know, to go to the house floor, and it passed out of committee going to the house floor with the pesticide immunity shield intact.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll keep an eye on that as well.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in like the last roughly 20 minutes we have here, I want to shift it to a positive.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you could even imagine this, it's something positive related to glyphosate.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: So this was brought to uh to my attention by one of our listeners, um, Deborah um sapita.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's S-E-P-E-D-A.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: I probably butchered that.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sapita.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank you, Deborah, for sending this in.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: She sent an article that was published in Acres, USA, and it's titled Glyphosate Does What It's Designed to Do, kill.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a positive part in this story.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, and Joel already happened to read this story as well.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, I wanted to highlight um two quick things.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Quick positive things.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, one thing that's not positive, but they turned it into one, is that many people probably not aware, but we've talked about this before on the podcast, that under current USDA organic standards, organic growers can apply manure to the crops, and the manure can come from conventionally raised animals, including those in confined animal feeding operations or what we call KAFOs.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, provided it's applied in a way that doesn't contaminate the soil or the water.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think most people are actually aware of that.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do you find that to be true, Joel?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think most people know that an organic crop can be, can have manure put on it from a conventional KAFO?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I don't I don't think most people know that.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and and you know, the other thing is most people don't know that organic uh does not take any position on mRNA or vaccines.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Takes no position on it whatsoever.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting, you know, in my my long career of of being this, you know, weirdo farmer, um uh we have never had people ask us about whether we vaccine our our livestock or not.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that's never been an issue.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: The issue has been chemicals or antibiotics.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Those have been the issues.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly, see now literally in the last two years, we're getting all sorts of requests from people.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do you vaccinate?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you vaccinate?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: So again, that's positive.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are actually starting to think.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, COVID, for whatever you can say about it, COVID has really um smoked out some of these nuances.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and um, and I think the average person doesn't realize, well, I mean, uh until they do, that that uh organic, the organic certification program um does not bar it, it it is silent.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just it is silent on mRNA and vaccines.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's that is a real data point, like a real life, real world data point that substantiates what we've been saying on this program that that was Kennedy's biggest win was increased awareness.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so they're calling the farm and asking what do you do to the animal.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's a huge win.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's never happened before, but it is happening.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just can't tell you how many, I mean, it's happening so much that I think we need to do a we'll probably have to add something on our website, you know, part of our FAQs or something, uh, just to keep the phone from ringing so much or having me answer so many emails.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I you know for me, I'm excited about it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't vaccinate anything, and um, and it's exciting to be able to have that conversation with people to explain to them that um you know our kind of our philosophy of of um immunological function is all about management.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that feeds right into this article about management.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: So so another question you can ask if you're you know vetting farms is the manure, and where do you get that manure from?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, do you do you get it from KAFOs, you know, these conventionally raised animals?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the issue is the maneuver, manure is showing up to frequently contain residues of the desiccated glyphosate sprayed crops that are fed to those conventionally raised animals.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: So most of us eat organic in part because we want to avoid chemicals like glyphosate, but it appears the glyphosate's kind of hitching a ride into the you know organic food through this back door.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: So um in the article, they talk about how um this isn't just a theoretical problem.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: They were interviewing Dr.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Don Hoover, who I don't know, but Joel knows him, and he was talking about how um there's a story about an organic sauerkraut producer who lost like a million dollars in product.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now it was really perplexing to them because the cabbage looked beautiful.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was white in the field, it tasted good, but when they put it in the fermentation vats, it turned into mush, kind of like an applesauce instead of a nice kraut.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they tested the salt, they tested the water, they tested the soil.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: And interestingly, the soil samples from the different production fields, they were similar, but there was a difference in some nutrients in the cabbage that was grown in them.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that indicated that there's a tremendous difference in the availability of nutrients in the soil.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, in one of the soil soil samples, there was plenty of copper and manganese and zinc in the soil, but the plant actually couldn't find it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: So they started to ask, well, what could cause this?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the only difference between like the organic and the conventional uh soils that they were testing, it was their fertility program.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: So the organic was using this poultry manure, and the conventional was using the comparative rates of inorganic uh nutrients.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when they tested the poultry manure manure, they found massive glyphosate contamination, and they found deficiencies in the manganese, iron, zinc, and copper.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that can explain how they got the mushy sauerkraut because the trigger and the structural integrity of cabbage cell walls comes from um you need the manganese and you need copper to um for the shikamate pathway.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've talked about this on the program before, so I won't belabor it, but the bacteria have this shikamate pathway and um it requires these minerals in order for that pathway to work.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we get amino acids from this pathway as well in our own gastrointestinal tract.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in this regard, they need those minerals to be able to, you know, execute this pathway.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: So even though this farm had been organic for like 25 years, the manure brought in enough glyphosate to actually shut down that chicken mate pathway in the cabbage.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it didn't have the ability to create the structural integrity that it needed, and it just turned into mush.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's crazy.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what they found was that the glyphosate was carrying through from the manure, it was carrying through the contaminated feed that the poultry were fed, and then down into the manure.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the poultry were fed this contaminated feed because it came from crops that were desiccated by glyphosate, and then they were being fed to the chickens, you know?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what they did was they built upon the work from Dr.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Monica, um, I believe it's Kruger.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: She's a veterinary pathologist in Germany.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what she did was super cool.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: She demonstrated that if you take raw sauerkraut, like the juice from it, and you um you put it in the feed of dairy cattle, it would break down the glyphosate in the feed.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what is really cool is that um the cows, the the dairy cattle were getting chronic botulism and it was killing many of the cows.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: And apparently that's a big problem here too.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Joel, you know, you know more about that, chime in.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she she he said that most of the dairies just accepted that this is a big problem.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: But what she showed um in cattle is that if you gave them the raw sauerkraut group um juice, it would degrade the glyphosate in the rumen, which prevented the overgrowth of the closturidium botulinium, which was causing the botulism.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so Dr.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hoover's team wanted to see if they can replicate that finding in the soil here in America.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they did.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: They found out they took um 15 gallons of raw sauerkraut juice and they sprayed it um, you know, per acre, and they found an 80 to 90 percent um reduction in glyphosate in the soil.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the cool thing is it glyphosate wasn't just broken down into AMPA, who, you know, it's toxic um metabolite.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: It they said that it was fully degraded.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so as a consequence, they saw, for example, increase in corn yields, like 11 to 14 bushel increases in corn yields because they got glyphosate out of the way.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: They also did this in a dairy study, and they showed a significant increase in milk production um, you know, in these cows when the silage didn't have the residential uh residual glyphosate in it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a really cool thing because, you know, we talk about how the soil is becoming nutrient depleted.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not just from, you know, not managing it properly and not having enough topsoil or over-tilling too deep, for example.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Part of it is because glyphosate is a metal chelator, and so it will chelate onto these um minerals that we're talking about.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really an interesting kind of juxtaposition because the mineral, some of these minerals, like the copper, the zinc, the manganese, they are there in the soil.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: But the plant can't actually get access to them.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like the plant is sitting there starving, you know, and its immune system is starving and it's like literally right there and it can't get to it.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, could you imagine?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like plants can sense so many things.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: I bet they can sense this, you know, and the fungus can sense it, but they can't get it.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens is once you actually break down this glyphosate, it releases the mineral back to the soil.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so now the plant can actually get it again.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what they're saying, the same thing is happening in in our bodies, right?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we eat these plants that are mineral deficient and then we become even more mineral deficient, not because, not only because we're eating these mineral deficient plants, but because the glyphosate is chelating minerals inside of us.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can get it to break down, if it's chelated in a mineral and you can get it to break down either in the soil or potentially in your own body, it can then free up the minerals.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we can stop having this surgence of micronutrient deficiency diseases in our culture that have been largely eradicated and now are making a comeback, you know?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I and I think I think one just to put a little parentheses in here for folks to understand is that this is not a direct chemical reaction uh in our bodies or in the soil, actually.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's easy when you start, when you when you say it this way, you know, it sounds like it's just a a pretty straight-line chemical reaction.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, what's what's making that chemical reaction, what's making those transfers happen in the soil is microbial activity.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's actually making things happen.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so the glyphosate is toxic to the actual microbial community that is inner that is intersecting um in in the um in that that kind of uh zone there, you know, between the plant root and the soil.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: All that transfer is being done by microbes.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not a root actually pulling in zinc from the soil or boron.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually a microbe in bet that's that's catalyzing, facilitating that transaction.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of this that we don't, I mean, there's more to this than we can even understand, but but it it does show, it does show that there is a remedy.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the that's the ultimate hope.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the ultimate positive of this story, Cena, is that that um that there is a remedy.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so often, you know, we hear about whatever, you know, plastics forever, chemicals, uh, um, you know, all these kinds of things.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and the fact is that there are microbes.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are fungi, there are microbes, there are things that eat all of this.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and there are people like Dr.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don Huber that are working um in in numerous you know, industries around the planet to remediate the damage that we've done.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I know um uh my friend Billy Bond there in North Carolina has has uh after um Hurricane Helene devastated, and there were all these um oil spills and and and PIFA spills there, you know, in in those areas where the hurricane came through and and um made the soils toxic, and he's been able to put a concoction of microbes spray it into those soils, and it then they literally eat up eat up the the forever chemical, eat up all the stuff.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean there are stuff, there's there are things that eat oil that eat, you know, uh uh chemical spills and stuff.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there um fortunately there is there is a remedy for this stuff, and it's really exciting to to see this um you know, this actual trial where they actually showed the efficacy of a remedy.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: The remedy is not the kraut, it's the microbial community in the sauerkraut, in the juice.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the microbial community.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's actually working.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a direct chemical reaction.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you brought that up too, because um they talked about that like it's the brine, it's actually the juice component of it.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so it is the raw sauerkraut.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to your point, it can't be this pasteurized or heat-treated sauerkraut because you'll kill you you tend to kill the microbes when you pasteurize it.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it is these amazing microbes that are going in and being able to break this stuff down.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's another, I mean, just another reason to eat sauerkraut.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't um I looked and I don't see any real data at this point that's connecting humans consuming sauerkraut and having that remove or help break down glyphosate in their own bodies.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I believe that's possible from what I've seen so far.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's certainly it's a kissing cousin for sure.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the whole in the whole ball of wax, uh, it's it's gotta be it's it's certainly close.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so sauerkraut, um so the cool thing about it, so if you consume the sauerkraut and it and it does break down the glyphosate, so it that means a couple things.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: It can release these needed um nutrients in your own body, these minerals that we need.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it can make those minerals more bioavailable for you, right?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: Helping to replete any potential losses.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: The sauerkraut itself is rich in those kinds of minerals too, which can help to combat nutrient deficiencies.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: But can you imagine, Joel?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: One day it may become mainstream, or at least in our circles, where we start calling sauerkraut a detoxifier.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh most people don't actually call it that right now.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we use we talk about it as inoculating the microbiome and helping to diversify it because it's a much better solution than consuming a handful of microbial species in a probiotic capsule, right?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get thousands of them, thousands and thousands in a sauerkraut, which is the the way that God intended us to eat those.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: But now we may actually start calling it uh it may be like our go-to detoxifier because glyphosate is so ubiquitous.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the main things that's causing so much sickness.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: And could you imagine?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and we're not gonna have, I would bet, a lot of studies and publicity on this because you can make it in your own kitchen, right?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like the drug company's not not um, they're not benefiting from this.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can't patent this.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, like there's nobody up there connected to Trump that's saying, hey, yeah, let's make a killing off sauerkraut and get rid of glyphosate.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like Yeah, yeah, you you can you can grow grow cabbage in your garden and make sauerkraut in a in a croc, you know, by the uh at the at the back door.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was one of the things that they emphasized too, was that glyphosate is so pervasive, you know, in the water and in the air, that even an organic, clean diet, you can't avoid it entirely.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the take-home messages of the article was um, or of these studies that they were doing, was that you should have continuous remediation um in your own lifestyle, which we talk about in this program.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: I talk about daily detox.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they're saying that continuous remediation should be through a probiotic rich, mineral-dense diet, you know, using raw sauerkraut, for example.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's, you know, kind of a fascinating thing.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: More and more is coming out that nature can heal itself.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and full, you know, full spectrum salt, you know, uh on your food.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you ought to be this whole salt-free everything, it's nuts, you know.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um good, you know, C90, Himalayan red salt, uh, Redmond salt.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's full, you know, when I say full spectrum, you know, it's it's got it's not it's not the white iodized salt from Morton that you get at the supermarket.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you man, you can use that as liberally as you want.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can uh you can take a couple teaspoons of that every day, and it'd be really, really good.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, there's there's a lot of lot of uh remediations.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um we had a we had a a bit of negative uh about the the uh unholy alliances at the most upper levels of our great nation, and we ended up with a way to um remedy and circumvent the machinations of those people at the highest levels of our great nation.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so uh I I think I think we've covered top to bottom here today, and I love this last portion of you know where we can actually, you know, take control of our own uh detoxifying from our own, you know, from our own gardens.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's really a cool thing.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the true Beyond Labels style, right?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: It is solve a problem, and then let's empower us.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: So now we can all have another reason to go make kraut in the kitchen with our kids and our grandkids and start eating it uh as a detoxifier.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, question for the day.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Question for our folks is Um Um, have you ever made sauerkraut?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have, you know, what's your um what's your quickest, easiest uh you know, go-to way?
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it'd be fun to just kind of let everybody share their experiences with sauerkraut.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh of of all the food preservation techniques, it's probably one of the easiest ones out there, you know, uh uh looking at all the different I mean we've all we've always used a croc with a a plate on top and a stone and you know, and just it just sits there and bubbles.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there it is.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Have you made it or does Teresa made it?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Teresa, oh no.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: When I say we, it's it's it's it's uh the royal we.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: The royal we, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the queen, the queen we, yeah.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I just I I just uh you know carry the carry the croc and go find the rock and you know, that sort of thing.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you participated.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm uh she she's she's Batman.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just Robin.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, everybody.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us on another uh episode of Beyond Labels.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate uh your continued faithfulness to us, and um we look forward to visiting with you again next week on another Beyond Labels podcast.