Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: A Deserted Desert Discovery - The Homicide of Dr. Thomas Burchard

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: A Deserted Desert Discovery - The Homicide of Dr. Thomas Burchard · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I've had the opportunity
0:21
Speaker 1: to travel quite a bit across this country, and one
0:26
Speaker 1: of the most striking locations geographically, at least is in
0:30
Speaker 1: my opinion, is the desert southwest of the United States.
0:34
Speaker 1: Being from the southeast, I'm used to seeing farm land
0:38
Speaker 1: and rolling hills and green everywhere. Not out there. Sometimes
0:44
Speaker 1: you can get on one of those highways and it
0:45
Speaker 1: just looks like it goes on and on forever, and
0:49
Speaker 1: I kind of realize how small you are. It's kind
0:51
Speaker 1: of like when you go to the ocean for the
0:52
Speaker 1: first time when you're a kid. You see the vastness
0:55
Speaker 1: of it, but there is a beauty to it. But
0:59
Speaker 1: not too many people stop along the roadway. There's not
1:03
Speaker 1: many establishments out in some of those locations to stop at.
1:08
Speaker 1: But can you imagine tooling down the road. You got
1:12
Speaker 1: your kids in the car with you, Maybe you're singing
1:17
Speaker 1: a song whether or maybe you're playing a game, or
1:19
Speaker 1: maybe you're telling them to settle down. But all of
1:22
Speaker 1: a sudden, on the corner of your eye, you're catching
1:24
Speaker 1: hot sight. In the middle of that vastness, there's a Mercedes,
1:31
Speaker 1: a blue one Mercedes been C. Three hundred sitting there
1:37
Speaker 1: rising up off the desert floor on what the police
1:40
Speaker 1: called earthen burm. When your high catches it and you
1:46
Speaker 1: notice that there's a big hole in the window, looks like,
1:50
Speaker 1: I don't know, a gun blast or maybe a big
1:52
Speaker 1: rock went through it. But when the police finally showed
1:56
Speaker 1: up at that scene, after that duty had caught it in,
2:01
Speaker 1: when they opened the trunk of that car, they found
2:04
Speaker 1: something as shocking as anything else you might see out
2:06
Speaker 1: there in that desperate they found the body of doctor
2:09
Speaker 1: Thomas Bouchard. Today, we're going to talk about his honor side.
2:15
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags. Join
2:24
Speaker 1: him in today is my good friend Jackie Howard, senior
2:28
Speaker 1: producer with Nancy Gray's Crime Stories. Jackie, when I heard
2:33
Speaker 1: about the story, I was thinking, what an odd thing.
2:37
Speaker 1: You're riding along the road with your kids in the car.
2:39
Speaker 1: You know, you and I are both parents, and I've
2:41
Speaker 1: seen odd things along the road with my family in
2:43
Speaker 1: the car. I don't know that I would have necessarily stopped,
2:46
Speaker 1: but apparently he at least called it into the police
2:49
Speaker 1: that caught his attention. And can you imagine the shock
2:51
Speaker 1: of the police when they finally rolled up there and
2:53
Speaker 1: they stick their head in the winter of their car
2:55
Speaker 1: and they say it there's blood everywhere. That's going to
2:57
Speaker 1: be an indication that's something pretty horrid has occurred, I
3:00
Speaker 1: would think, I would say, in the landscape of California,
3:04
Speaker 1: Las Vegas and the area in between, that's probably not
3:08
Speaker 1: the strangest things that officers have seen out there. But
3:12
Speaker 1: doctor Thomas Burchard was very well known and very well
3:16
Speaker 1: liked among his patients. He had a longtime girlfriend. According
3:20
Speaker 1: to Judy Earp, his girlfriend, his patients remained his friends
3:26
Speaker 1: and he helped them often throughout the rest of his life.
3:31
Speaker 1: Usually he dealt with children, but as they turned into adults,
3:35
Speaker 1: he remained contact in their life, helping them financially, often
3:40
Speaker 1: when he had to. But when doctor Burchard explained to
3:44
Speaker 1: his girlfriend that he had to fly to Las Vegas.
3:47
Speaker 1: That was Friday, March first, and he was scheduled to
3:51
Speaker 1: return the following Monday. But on Sunday, she began to
3:55
Speaker 1: realize that something was wrong. She spoke to him on Friday,
3:59
Speaker 1: she texted with him on Saturday, but Judy Irp says
4:03
Speaker 1: she knew something was wrong on Sunday when she received
4:06
Speaker 1: a couple of texts from him in the afternoon that
4:10
Speaker 1: she knew she just felt in her heart that were
4:14
Speaker 1: not sent by him. She even replied, Tom, I don't
4:18
Speaker 1: believe this is you. You need to call me, and
4:21
Speaker 1: after that the phone went dead. Then she finds out
4:24
Speaker 1: that Tom doesn't check in for his flight. She gets
4:27
Speaker 1: very worried. There's days before doctor Bouchard's body was discovered
4:33
Speaker 1: in the trunk, as you said, of his luxury car.
4:36
Speaker 1: But before the police officers looked in the trunk, they
4:40
Speaker 1: looked inside, as you said, they noticed the broken windshield.
4:44
Speaker 1: And this vehicle parked it would almost be like a
4:51
Speaker 1: big lightbulb above it because it's on display and it's
4:56
Speaker 1: basically we got a knee on sun that says, hey,
4:58
Speaker 1: look at me. I'm a flashy car and I'm sitting
5:00
Speaker 1: up for all the world to see. So police officers
5:03
Speaker 1: go to look and inside they find lots of blood. Joe,
5:10
Speaker 1: one of the fascinating things about being a death investigator
5:13
Speaker 1: is that sometimes when you arrive at a scene, do
5:17
Speaker 1: you know that there are actually of deaths that don't
5:20
Speaker 1: have bodies, And upon initial examination. When you look, say,
5:25
Speaker 1: for instance, into the cabin of a car, and it
5:28
Speaker 1: is just bathed in blood, you have to think automatically
5:33
Speaker 1: that something horrific has happened in this environment. You have
5:37
Speaker 1: all manner of blood staining that has taken place, and
5:40
Speaker 1: you know with blood there goes an indication of activity.
5:45
Speaker 1: What do I mean by that, Well, you have blood
5:48
Speaker 1: spatter where you can have a dynamic event, say for instance,
5:53
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound or maybe a bludgeoning, where you have
5:56
Speaker 1: blood that is directly blown onto a surface, sprayed onto
6:00
Speaker 1: a surface, if you will. In one manner speaking, then
6:04
Speaker 1: you have transfer of blood, which means that you have
6:06
Speaker 1: blood that comes comes about as a result of a
6:10
Speaker 1: body or an object that is soaked with blood touching
6:13
Speaker 1: that area, and then it kind of supersaturates the area
6:17
Speaker 1: and it leaves this very specific pattern. If you take
6:21
Speaker 1: a body, say, for instance, and you move it all
6:24
Speaker 1: about an area and it's coated in blood, you'll get
6:27
Speaker 1: these kind of swirls, say, for instance, as somebody has
6:30
Speaker 1: a bloody, blood soaked hair. It's almost like taking a
6:34
Speaker 1: mop that has mud or something on it, and you
6:36
Speaker 1: can kind of see the swirl on the floor that
6:39
Speaker 1: the mud makes as you transfer it from those strands
6:42
Speaker 1: of the mop. Same thing with hair. Clothing works the
6:45
Speaker 1: same way, hands work the same way, and so there's
6:47
Speaker 1: very distinctive patterns that you look for. But it also
6:50
Speaker 1: goes to the dynamic of an event, which is critical
6:54
Speaker 1: in a case where you're trying to assess how this
6:57
Speaker 1: blood is in fact directly related to a horrible event
7:02
Speaker 1: that more than likely gaging from the amount of blood
7:06
Speaker 1: you find it a scene might be an indication that
7:09
Speaker 1: the amount of blood is what's referred to as incompatible
7:12
Speaker 1: with life. Given where these blood patterns were found, there's
7:17
Speaker 1: spatter on the driver's seat head rest and in the
7:20
Speaker 1: back seat. When you're looking at a scene like this, Joe,
7:24
Speaker 1: can you just immediately not from doing any kind of testing,
7:28
Speaker 1: but just from looking at how much and how the
7:31
Speaker 1: blood is laid out, whether it is a blood force wound,
7:38
Speaker 1: a stabbing wound, a shooting. I mean, just can you
7:43
Speaker 1: look at that and go, oh, yes, somebody got shot here.
7:45
Speaker 1: Yeah you can, because you know the finer the spray,
7:48
Speaker 1: for instance, that gives us an indication of the hire
7:51
Speaker 1: of the velocity. And I'll give you an example of that.
7:54
Speaker 1: If you if you take, say a handgun, and you
7:57
Speaker 1: shoot somebody in the head, when that blood exits out
8:01
Speaker 1: of the body, it's going to be in a spray
8:04
Speaker 1: like pattern. When I say spray, I'm talking about the
8:07
Speaker 1: consistency of like air sol hairspray. Can you kind of
8:12
Speaker 1: sprits it like that and the droplets will be very
8:15
Speaker 1: very fine. However, if you have an event where someone
8:19
Speaker 1: is beaten to death, the droplets themselves will be much
8:22
Speaker 1: larger when they settle on the surface. Another thing you
8:25
Speaker 1: have to consider as well is do you have evidence
8:29
Speaker 1: that blood's settled in a particular location. And this is
8:32
Speaker 1: you know, we begin to talk about things like the
8:34
Speaker 1: pooling of blood, where you have pools of blood that
8:37
Speaker 1: give you an indication that a subject may have laid
8:40
Speaker 1: there for a period of time and blood either pumped
8:44
Speaker 1: out of their body at that spot. It doesn't have
8:46
Speaker 1: to be like an arterial spray pattern, which tends to
8:49
Speaker 1: be kind of fine. It can be just almost like
8:52
Speaker 1: a seepage where you have blood that's kind of slowly
8:55
Speaker 1: coursing out of the body and sometimes that's just drawn
8:57
Speaker 1: up by gravity. At all depends, So if you have
8:59
Speaker 1: a large area of blood, you have an indication that
9:02
Speaker 1: the dynamic or that there was kind of a lack
9:05
Speaker 1: of a dynamic environment there where you've got a lot
9:07
Speaker 1: of movement around and kind of these high velocity events
9:11
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, a lot of activity. That's
9:14
Speaker 1: one of the reasons. And this is kind of an
9:15
Speaker 1: interesting little aside. There are cases that have been worked
9:19
Speaker 1: over the years where people have actually been convicted in
9:24
Speaker 1: the absence of a body of a homicide, but yet
9:27
Speaker 1: the investigators found such a large amount of blood at
9:31
Speaker 1: the scene. The term just as I stated earlier, they
9:34
Speaker 1: would say, let's see if I get the phraseology right,
9:37
Speaker 1: this volume of blood is not compatible with life. In
9:42
Speaker 1: other words, that the individual lost so much blood at
9:46
Speaker 1: that moment in time that the subject could not have
9:50
Speaker 1: continued to live. And it can be indicative of what
9:54
Speaker 1: type of event that you might be looking at. You
9:57
Speaker 1: begin to look at, for instance, the appearance of the blood.
10:00
Speaker 1: Have the red blood cells begun to say, for instance,
10:03
Speaker 1: separate from the serum. You know, the way we think
10:05
Speaker 1: about blood is if it's constantly circulating and mixing, if
10:10
Speaker 1: you will, So once that begins to happen, that can
10:12
Speaker 1: be an indication of time as well, because it takes
10:15
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time for the serum to separate
10:18
Speaker 1: out from the red blood cells, for instance, and within
10:21
Speaker 1: the serum you'll find other components as well. But it
10:25
Speaker 1: gives you an idea of what may have happened. And
10:29
Speaker 1: it's important because the blood will tell you. It'll give
10:32
Speaker 1: you direction many times, not just the dynamic of events,
10:35
Speaker 1: say the spray of a blood pattern it's left behind,
10:37
Speaker 1: but also if you have, say, for instance, the drag
10:40
Speaker 1: marks that are left behind, and sometimes they are telltale
10:45
Speaker 1: people are moving a bloody body across a surface and
10:49
Speaker 1: you see dots of blood, or you might see big
10:52
Speaker 1: swipes of blood across that area, and it kind of
10:55
Speaker 1: gives you this interesting pattern of movement and you begin
10:59
Speaker 1: to interpret that. And you know, I find it very
11:02
Speaker 1: interesting that in this particular case that the police found
11:06
Speaker 1: not just blood within the cabin of the car, but
11:09
Speaker 1: they also found blood on the exterior of the trunk
11:12
Speaker 1: of this car. Jackie as a death investigator, many times
11:33
Speaker 1: I've reflected back to that Bible verse from Genesis where
11:39
Speaker 1: God confronts Kane and he asked, Kane, you know where's
11:43
Speaker 1: they ablet Your brother Kane is kind of like, I
11:46
Speaker 1: don't know, and I think, and I'm certainly paraphrasing. I'm
11:49
Speaker 1: no theologian, but he says, your brother's blood cries out
11:53
Speaker 1: from the ground, and from an investigative standpoint, blood does
11:57
Speaker 1: cry out to you. It tells you things. It's an
12:00
Speaker 1: indicator of motion, it's an indicator of placement, it's an
12:05
Speaker 1: indicator of activity. Well, Joe, blood does not tell me
12:09
Speaker 1: as much as it does you. So I got lots
12:12
Speaker 1: more questions for you. So let's go back inside the
12:14
Speaker 1: car you were talking about. Blood was found on the outside. Again,
12:17
Speaker 1: I'm still inside the car. Blood was found on the
12:22
Speaker 1: driver's side and in the backseat. But there was so
12:25
Speaker 1: much more evidence that was found, so I want to
12:28
Speaker 1: know how this would have been handled. Latex gloves were found,
12:33
Speaker 1: and of course my limited knowledge, I went, oh, yeah,
12:36
Speaker 1: we've got fingerprints on the inside and DNA on the inside.
12:40
Speaker 1: And then we find out that there may have been
12:43
Speaker 1: a fire set inside the car, and I go, okay,
12:46
Speaker 1: was that intentional? I learned in way too much from you, Joe.
12:50
Speaker 1: Let's terrifying on so many levels, Jackie. But yeah, yeah,
12:53
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, and you're a great student. You're probably
12:55
Speaker 1: one of the best students I've had. Well, we spent
12:57
Speaker 1: a lot of time together. But okays me, sup we
13:00
Speaker 1: do when you look into an environment and listen, one
13:03
Speaker 1: of the things you have to consider as an investigator.
13:06
Speaker 1: When I see bloody gloves, most of the time, I
13:09
Speaker 1: don't automatically think perpetrator. Unfortunately, when I show up at
13:14
Speaker 1: a scene and I see bloody blue late tech gloves,
13:17
Speaker 1: the first thing I think of is EMT. And this
13:21
Speaker 1: is why this is very important and kind of let
13:22
Speaker 1: me make this point so so that our listeners understand.
13:27
Speaker 1: When we're at the scene and you have what would
13:30
Speaker 1: commonly be referred to as kind of life saving debris
13:33
Speaker 1: that's out there, and this includes bloodied gloves, they don't
13:37
Speaker 1: throw that stuff away. You retain it, You take pictures
13:41
Speaker 1: of it. You don't say, hey, let's take a picture
13:43
Speaker 1: of a dead body and but remove all the debris
13:47
Speaker 1: that the EMT's left behind. You know when you take
13:50
Speaker 1: the photo, you can't do that. That's altering the scene.
13:52
Speaker 1: So those gloves that are at the scene, within this car,
13:57
Speaker 1: that's part and parcel. Even if they were left behind,
14:00
Speaker 1: which I don't think they were by an EMT, but
14:02
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that you think about. You
14:04
Speaker 1: don't just toss things away because the smallest amount of
14:08
Speaker 1: evidence can really turn the case. If you exclude the
14:12
Speaker 1: emergency medical technicians that may have rolled out on any
14:16
Speaker 1: particular scene, and you have bloody gloves, well, automatically your
14:20
Speaker 1: default position is I didn't leave them. You didn't leave them,
14:23
Speaker 1: so who did? And you think, well, this has got connection.
14:26
Speaker 1: And also when you see gloves, it gives you a
14:30
Speaker 1: sense that the individual that may have been involved in
14:34
Speaker 1: this event was prepared. And that's kind of that puts
14:41
Speaker 1: the case into a completely different realm at that moment,
14:45
Speaker 1: because you have an individual that if they committed a
14:49
Speaker 1: homicide and they had gloves when they did it, they
14:53
Speaker 1: thought about it, They thought about what they were doing,
14:55
Speaker 1: they thought about their actions, they thought about leaving a
14:58
Speaker 1: trace of themselves. Going back to my old friend ed
15:01
Speaker 1: mod Lecard, every contact leaves a trace, and they're trying
15:05
Speaker 1: to do everything that can to thwart it. It's amazing
15:09
Speaker 1: to me. You know, you'd mentioned recovering evidence from within gloves,
15:13
Speaker 1: and that is possible. You can't get trace evidence off
15:15
Speaker 1: of a perpetrator from within the gloves depend upon how
15:18
Speaker 1: carefully you treat it. Why in the world would you
15:21
Speaker 1: leave the gloves behind. It's almost like they're not thinking.
15:25
Speaker 1: It's almost like an incomplete event. At that moment, you
15:28
Speaker 1: thought to bring the gloves, but you didn't think to
15:30
Speaker 1: take them with you. You just thought that you'd tear
15:32
Speaker 1: them off and just lay them there and that they
15:35
Speaker 1: wouldn't be collected as evidence. So that's kind of a
15:38
Speaker 1: fascinating thing to me. But when you have gloves, that
15:41
Speaker 1: means that you want to create a barrier between yourself
15:43
Speaker 1: and whatever item that you're touching. And so if there
15:48
Speaker 1: is blood from a victim, a specific victim that can
15:51
Speaker 1: tie back, it gives you an idea that after blood
15:54
Speaker 1: had been spilled, these gloves are essentially stained with it.
16:00
Speaker 1: You begin to think, well, what was the purpose of
16:02
Speaker 1: the gloves. Was it to hide points of contact on
16:05
Speaker 1: a weapon that was used, or was it to thwart
16:08
Speaker 1: the investigators to try to determine who handled the body
16:11
Speaker 1: in a postmortem sense the fire they had evidence of
16:15
Speaker 1: a fire at that point, would you have to bring
16:19
Speaker 1: in an arson team or can investigated personnel like yourself
16:25
Speaker 1: death that's seen investigators do all of those determinations and
16:29
Speaker 1: diagnosis as well. No, never, if I have access to
16:33
Speaker 1: arson personnel, I'm reaching out to them. These are some
16:36
Speaker 1: of the most highly trained individuals and they are specifically
16:39
Speaker 1: trained to deal with fire. I know enough about fire
16:41
Speaker 1: to be dangerous from a forensic standpoint, and I can
16:44
Speaker 1: interpret certain things. But when you begin to consider what
16:48
Speaker 1: arson investigators the level of training that they go through,
16:50
Speaker 1: because many times and many jurisdictions, for instance, arson investigators
16:54
Speaker 1: are not just Many of them start off as firefighters
16:58
Speaker 1: and then they go to the police academy and become
17:01
Speaker 1: police officers as well, and then they go through arson training.
17:04
Speaker 1: So these people have extensive trainings for this purpose alone.
17:10
Speaker 1: So if I have these individuals in my rolodecks, if
17:13
Speaker 1: you will, to use an old term, if I have
17:15
Speaker 1: them in my contacts and phone, I'm hopping on the
17:17
Speaker 1: phone with them. Because look, you and we talked about
17:20
Speaker 1: this on bodybacks. You get one first chance to get
17:22
Speaker 1: it right. If I say, oh, well, I'm the smartest
17:25
Speaker 1: person in the room, I'm going to go ahead and
17:27
Speaker 1: handle the area over here that looks like burning has
17:30
Speaker 1: taken place and I screwed up, which there's a high
17:33
Speaker 1: probability I would because I'm going to miss something I'm
17:35
Speaker 1: not specifically trained in that area. I'm going to call
17:37
Speaker 1: my friends from Arson. I've got a lot of really
17:40
Speaker 1: good friends that are arson investigators, and what they can
17:42
Speaker 1: do in that kind of environment is absolutely amazing. They
17:46
Speaker 1: know what evidence to collect, they know how to interpret
17:49
Speaker 1: the fire. They can tell you, for instance, how hot
17:53
Speaker 1: the fire was. They can begin to search things out
17:55
Speaker 1: to look for deposits of accelerant. They know how to
17:59
Speaker 1: collect it and how to process it, who to talk
18:01
Speaker 1: to at the lab. They speak the language, because a
18:03
Speaker 1: lot about forensics is learning to specifically speak the language
18:08
Speaker 1: and understand where to route evidence too, and Urson investigators
18:12
Speaker 1: are the best at this. So yeah, I'm sure that
18:15
Speaker 1: in this particular case they would have reached out to
18:17
Speaker 1: people that our fire investigators would have brought them out
18:20
Speaker 1: and asked for their opinion, and they would have generated
18:22
Speaker 1: a report in this case as well. Okay, so my
18:26
Speaker 1: inquiring mind has gone off into left field. We've all
18:30
Speaker 1: seen on TV all those little evidence markers, you know,
18:34
Speaker 1: number twenty two yellow tag with the pictures going to
18:37
Speaker 1: be taken. How many bags pieces slides of evidence can
18:45
Speaker 1: be generated from a crime scene like this, Each individual
18:49
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. Let's say, for instance, those gloves, okay
18:52
Speaker 1: that we mentioned, those are not to be packaged together,
18:56
Speaker 1: all right. Each glove is an individual piece of evidence,
19:00
Speaker 1: and it will be assigned a very specific number, and
19:03
Speaker 1: it will be analyzed in and of itself. It will
19:06
Speaker 1: not be analyzed with the other glove. It's like any item.
19:09
Speaker 1: If you have two blood soak socks that are removed from,
19:12
Speaker 1: say a deceased person's feet, each sock is an individual
19:16
Speaker 1: piece of evidence. Any fiber collected, say from below the
19:20
Speaker 1: knee with a tape lift at autopsy, is different than
19:24
Speaker 1: the tape lift that you're going to get from superior
19:27
Speaker 1: to the knee. Those are all individual pieces of evidence.
19:30
Speaker 1: So when you begin to kind of calculate, and I
19:34
Speaker 1: think folks are surprised to hear this, when you begin
19:36
Speaker 1: to calculate the volume of evidence that you take out
19:39
Speaker 1: of a scene, it can be staggering. I've actually been
19:43
Speaker 1: on scenes. I remember one night in particular, we had
19:46
Speaker 1: such an extensive scene within a house. We had to
19:49
Speaker 1: call out two vans, full size vans like a connal
19:53
Speaker 1: line size vans to haul off all of the evidence
19:56
Speaker 1: that we had and those were in paperbacks. We had
19:59
Speaker 1: bagged things individually at that scene, and we filled up
20:03
Speaker 1: to two large vans, So you can go as deep
20:06
Speaker 1: with this as you possibly want. Yeah, wait, wait, wait
20:10
Speaker 1: wait wait, do you mean like one bag side by
20:13
Speaker 1: side throughout the entire van? Are you just kind of
20:16
Speaker 1: talking on the shelves and things that are installed. Well,
20:19
Speaker 1: it all depends on, you know, if we want to
20:20
Speaker 1: get into a volume contest, like judging how many jelly
20:23
Speaker 1: beans are in a big class jar. I guess we
20:25
Speaker 1: could do that, but it's gonna be hard to calculate that.
20:28
Speaker 1: It's it's a vast number, and you have to be
20:29
Speaker 1: very careful with it. This is why, because each thing
20:34
Speaker 1: contained in that bag has individual value from a scientific standpoint,
20:39
Speaker 1: you have to be very careful with it. There's certain
20:42
Speaker 1: things that potentially could be jostled around and you're not
20:44
Speaker 1: going to do any damage to them. But there are
20:47
Speaker 1: other things, say, for instance, that you don't want to
20:49
Speaker 1: stack on top of one another. Say, for instance, if
20:52
Speaker 1: you do, in fact have a blood soaked item, you
20:55
Speaker 1: don't want to crunch that down in the bag because
20:58
Speaker 1: that could perhaps transfer or blood on one aspect of
21:01
Speaker 1: an item to another aspect of the item that didn't
21:04
Speaker 1: have blood on it before. So you have to think
21:06
Speaker 1: about all of this. Everything that you do has to
21:09
Speaker 1: have purpose behind it, and you have to be able
21:11
Speaker 1: to justify it. You have to be able to justify
21:13
Speaker 1: it to yourself and everybody work with. But also you
21:16
Speaker 1: have to justify it in court because when you get
21:19
Speaker 1: up on the stand to testify to the validity of
21:22
Speaker 1: that evidence, how it was handled and everything, you better
21:26
Speaker 1: bring your a game. And because their attorneys out there
21:29
Speaker 1: that are that are bright enough to ask you questions
21:32
Speaker 1: specific to these points. How was this evidence treated? Okay,
21:37
Speaker 1: So back to the car. Investigators look inside, find the
21:41
Speaker 1: blood nobody. Then they pop the trunk and they find
21:46
Speaker 1: it doctor Thomas Burchard. He has been in this vehicle
21:50
Speaker 1: for several days out in the desert on top of
21:53
Speaker 1: this berm Now, the only good thing about this investigation
21:58
Speaker 1: would have to be that it was March and not
22:02
Speaker 1: July or August, and he was enclosed. I guess good
22:07
Speaker 1: is probably not a great term, but a valid point
22:12
Speaker 1: in this investigation. The conditions that you are in the
22:15
Speaker 1: lower temperatures and enclosed space is going to preserve the evidence.
22:22
Speaker 1: I eat the body better. Oh boy, you're right on
22:26
Speaker 1: the money with that, Jackie. And here's why, because it
22:30
Speaker 1: is the best term for me is advantageous. You look
22:33
Speaker 1: for advantages as an investigator at a scene, and this
22:36
Speaker 1: is an advantage. Remember in the opening I talked about
22:39
Speaker 1: how vast this area is. We're talking about the desert,
22:42
Speaker 1: all right, it just goes on for miles and miles
22:45
Speaker 1: and miles and miles. They could have scattered remains all
22:51
Speaker 1: over the place, but not in this case, they have
22:53
Speaker 1: contained remains. And so for us as investigators, when you
23:00
Speaker 1: put up a trunk as foul as this is, as
23:04
Speaker 1: horrific as it is, you have the advantage in a
23:08
Speaker 1: case like this because you have essentially a contained crime
23:12
Speaker 1: scene within this environment. And you know, we have kind
23:15
Speaker 1: of a way that we grade crime scenes, or that
23:17
Speaker 1: we refer to crime scenes. For us as medical legal
23:20
Speaker 1: death investigators, the area or the location where we find
23:24
Speaker 1: the body that's going to be what we would refer
23:26
Speaker 1: to as a primary crime scene because, with no disrespect
23:30
Speaker 1: to the dead, but the body is the largest piece
23:34
Speaker 1: of evidence that you have, Okay, you want to be
23:36
Speaker 1: able to preserve it, to try to there's this word again,
23:39
Speaker 1: and try to keep it as pristine as possible. And
23:43
Speaker 1: in this gentleman's death, when they placed his body into
23:48
Speaker 1: the trunk of this car, they did the investigators a
23:52
Speaker 1: favor because for that moment, this body is sealed away.
23:56
Speaker 1: You don't have the external environment, which could now highly unlikely.
24:01
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be rain. You're in the desert. I
24:03
Speaker 1: know they do have a monsoon season. I'm not quite
24:06
Speaker 1: sure when that is. But you don't have rain. You
24:08
Speaker 1: don't have to do Okay, they might set it in
24:10
Speaker 1: the morning. You're not gonna have wind. Wind can really
24:13
Speaker 1: impact a body. You don't have direct sunlight. And one
24:17
Speaker 1: of the biggest things is that you don't have vermin.
24:20
Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna have coyotes that are going
24:22
Speaker 1: to be walking up to the body and disrupting the
24:24
Speaker 1: body as if it were laying outside of the car,
24:27
Speaker 1: or any kind of other animals that might be out there.
24:30
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of cocooned in a way and protected.
24:33
Speaker 1: My thought is is that the best course with a
24:37
Speaker 1: body and a car like this, and I've done this
24:40
Speaker 1: on several occasions where we do not remove the body
24:44
Speaker 1: from the vehicle at all. We have a flatbed truck
24:48
Speaker 1: that comes out and we pull the vehicle up onto
24:52
Speaker 1: the flatbed, and we take the body back to the
24:55
Speaker 1: crime lab and the car in total is processed with
24:59
Speaker 1: the body place and that way you don't disrupt anything. Now,
25:02
Speaker 1: that's the ideals or circumstances that you work under, and
25:05
Speaker 1: sometimes that can't happen. It doesn't happen in every case,
25:09
Speaker 1: but for me as a forensics guy, that would be
25:12
Speaker 1: my preference because I'm not going to lose anything. People
25:15
Speaker 1: don't think, you know, well, gwiz, where are you gonna
25:17
Speaker 1: lose Morgan? Well, if you just the simple act of
25:21
Speaker 1: lifting a body out of this awkward space that you
25:24
Speaker 1: have to draw the body out of essentially to get
25:26
Speaker 1: it into a body bag, can create a disruption in
25:30
Speaker 1: the continuity of the evidence. What if you were able
25:34
Speaker 1: to take the entire car. You just said that moving
25:38
Speaker 1: the body could possibly destroy tamper with the evidence. But
25:43
Speaker 1: wouldn't tilting a car upon its axis to move it
25:47
Speaker 1: onto a flat bed do the exact same thing, not
25:51
Speaker 1: to the same degree as putting hands on it and
25:53
Speaker 1: manipulating it. And there's a reason why people use the
25:56
Speaker 1: term dead weight the weight of a deceased person is
26:02
Speaker 1: the most awkward thing that anyone, well most people except
26:07
Speaker 1: those that work on farms and carry things like sacks
26:10
Speaker 1: of feed and try to deal with hay and all
26:12
Speaker 1: that stuff. It is dead weight. It doesn't the body
26:15
Speaker 1: does not help you. You know, when you lift somebody
26:18
Speaker 1: and they're alive, you might not sense that they're helping.
26:20
Speaker 1: They're helping you, and you're disrupting the body to a
26:24
Speaker 1: great degree because you're moving the body. Let's say the
26:26
Speaker 1: body is lying on the right side. Okay, lying on
26:29
Speaker 1: the right side, and say, for instance, like a semi
26:32
Speaker 1: fetal position. They've settled into that particular position. And also
26:37
Speaker 1: there might be patterns of things that are coming up
26:39
Speaker 1: off of the body that are underlying the body, and
26:42
Speaker 1: it gives you an idea of the position of the body.
26:44
Speaker 1: Was the person still alive and they put them in
26:46
Speaker 1: the trunk or had they been dead prior to this
26:49
Speaker 1: and they put them in the trunk. You lose kind
26:51
Speaker 1: of context if you will, I think, in my opinion,
26:54
Speaker 1: it's going to be much less disruptive to simply pull
26:58
Speaker 1: the vehicle up onto a flatbed. It will be disruptive
27:00
Speaker 1: with the body as opposed to taking the body out
27:03
Speaker 1: and placing it into a bag and then jostling it
27:06
Speaker 1: as you walk it back to a van that sparked
27:08
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Remember this is out
27:11
Speaker 1: in the desert, okay, And so you're gonna have to
27:14
Speaker 1: egress across this terrain, if you will, in order to
27:16
Speaker 1: get it loaded up into a van. If you can
27:18
Speaker 1: just take that body in place in the insight to
27:22
Speaker 1: as they say, in place in the back of this car,
27:24
Speaker 1: take it to the crime lab and process it that way,
27:28
Speaker 1: that's the most ideal set of circumstances. Okay. So I'm
27:31
Speaker 1: gonna let you move things as you find important, Joe.
27:34
Speaker 1: But back to the trunk. When the investigators did remove
27:39
Speaker 1: the body into the autopsy, they found that he had
27:43
Speaker 1: been bludgeoned. And how did they figure that out? I know,
27:50
Speaker 1: you know, you get meat with an instrument, you get
27:52
Speaker 1: a certain amount of patternsplunt force, sharp force tells you
27:56
Speaker 1: what he was beaten with. But how did they figure
27:59
Speaker 1: out that heat been beaten? Bill? Unforced trauma is kind
28:03
Speaker 1: of a curious thing. You have to try to do
28:06
Speaker 1: an assessment many times on surfaces that are just encrusted
28:11
Speaker 1: with blood, and particularly when their head strikes involved. As
28:15
Speaker 1: I've mentioned on a number of occasions, you know, the
28:17
Speaker 1: head is in fact the most vascular area of the body.
28:19
Speaker 1: So when you have head strikes, the surfaces that are
28:22
Speaker 1: kind of broken open as a result of blundforce trauma
28:25
Speaker 1: are going to just be super saturated with blood, and
28:29
Speaker 1: so it's hard to make heads of tails out of
28:31
Speaker 1: what you're seeing. We do an initial examination in the
28:34
Speaker 1: morgue where we'll look over the surface to see where
28:38
Speaker 1: these insults have taken place, try to get an idea
28:42
Speaker 1: of the degree of them, but you can never fully
28:44
Speaker 1: appreciate them until well, to be quite honest with you,
28:48
Speaker 1: we wash the individual's hair really clean the head off
28:52
Speaker 1: very very well, and if they have hair still in place.
28:55
Speaker 1: Most people don't realize this. We shave the head. We
28:58
Speaker 1: take generally the edge of a apple, which are very
29:02
Speaker 1: very sharp, and it's a real skill set that you
29:05
Speaker 1: possess if you're an autopsy assistant or a forensic pathologist
29:08
Speaker 1: in shave back the hair and you try to fully
29:10
Speaker 1: appreciate what's going on beneath the hair itself, because the
29:14
Speaker 1: hair can obscure a lot of things, and it's at
29:17
Speaker 1: that point that in this particular case that they would
29:20
Speaker 1: have been able to assess how many individual strikes, because
29:23
Speaker 1: every time a blunt object strikes a surface like the skull,
29:28
Speaker 1: it will essentially laceerate the skin. Now, keep in mind,
29:32
Speaker 1: I did not say cut the skin, because that's something
29:35
Speaker 1: that people get confused over many, many times. It's not
29:39
Speaker 1: a matter of a cut. This is a laceration, and
29:41
Speaker 1: they're completely two different things. Cut implies that you're using
29:46
Speaker 1: a sharp edged instrument, okay, and it's going to be
29:49
Speaker 1: very linear in shape, and you're going to have these
29:51
Speaker 1: kind of what's referred to as smooth margins. It looks
29:54
Speaker 1: like a machined blade, which a knife would be, has
29:59
Speaker 1: sliced through tissue, all right, and the tissue is completely straight.
30:05
Speaker 1: The injury is straight with sharp fours and very ordered. Now,
30:11
Speaker 1: with a laceration, many times the injury will be very jagged.
30:17
Speaker 1: They leave very nasty breaks in the skin. And one
30:20
Speaker 1: of the ways we ascertain this is a check for
30:23
Speaker 1: what's referred to as tissue bridging. And one of the
30:26
Speaker 1: ways you can kind of understand this concept is the
30:30
Speaker 1: next time you go out to eat a meal and
30:32
Speaker 1: you're eating steak or chicken, particularly you take a knife
30:36
Speaker 1: and you cut through, say you cut a piece of
30:38
Speaker 1: steak or cut a piece of chicken. Look at the
30:41
Speaker 1: edges of that meat that you just cut. It is
30:45
Speaker 1: going to be very uniformed. However, if you take a
30:50
Speaker 1: piece of meat and you pick it up with your
30:52
Speaker 1: hands and you pull it apart, it gets stringy, doesn't it.
30:57
Speaker 1: I don't care how tender the cut is. It gets
30:59
Speaker 1: stringy if you just kind of pause just for a
31:01
Speaker 1: second before you completely pull it apart, you'll see these
31:04
Speaker 1: little strings at tissue. Well, that's what we refer to
31:06
Speaker 1: in forensic science as tissue bridging. Bridging does not occur
31:12
Speaker 1: with a sharp instrument. You have to have blunt instruments
31:15
Speaker 1: to do that. So when we look at an injury
31:18
Speaker 1: and assess it either at the scene or at the morgue,
31:21
Speaker 1: we're looking for what's referred to as tissue bridging. Another
31:25
Speaker 1: thing that they're going to look for, and pathologists will
31:28
Speaker 1: use these ten dollar words, they're going to look for
31:31
Speaker 1: associated echymosis. And what that means is there is surrounding hemorrhage,
31:36
Speaker 1: which you see many times with blunt force trauma. So
31:39
Speaker 1: if you can imagine an individual being struck by a
31:42
Speaker 1: rod like an iron rod or perhaps a hammer, it
31:46
Speaker 1: will leave at least in the predepth state or the
31:50
Speaker 1: anti mordern state. It will leave these little areas of
31:53
Speaker 1: echymosis or hemorrhage around that lacerated area. And that's how
31:57
Speaker 1: we assess a blunt force injury. And also below the
32:04
Speaker 1: surface of the scalp, we're talking about a head injury. Here,
32:06
Speaker 1: a blunt force head injury, you can very well have
32:11
Speaker 1: fracturing of what's called the external table of the skull,
32:13
Speaker 1: and that is that layer of the skull that is
32:15
Speaker 1: on the outside external and if it's with enough force,
32:21
Speaker 1: the individual can sustain what's called a depressed skull fracture,
32:24
Speaker 1: which means it actually drives the external tissue the skin,
32:30
Speaker 1: for instance, of the scalp, the muscle down through the
32:33
Speaker 1: external table of the skull and it's collapsing it in
32:37
Speaker 1: into the cranial vault, many times into the surface of
32:40
Speaker 1: the brain actually in the moment will actually fragment and
32:42
Speaker 1: go down in there. And that's an indication. And this
32:46
Speaker 1: is important from a dynamic standpoint when you're thinking about
32:48
Speaker 1: assessing what happened at the scene. You're trying to assess
32:52
Speaker 1: whether or not there was a very strong person that
32:54
Speaker 1: was wielding the instrument as opposed to say, a lighter strike.
32:58
Speaker 1: That might give you an indication that maybe not as
33:01
Speaker 1: much strength or velocity was applied to the weapon that
33:05
Speaker 1: was used. Given the fact that so much blood was
33:27
Speaker 1: found within the cabin of the car and certainly in
33:29
Speaker 1: the trunk, I think that the police in this case
33:32
Speaker 1: have a real head scratcher going on. Is it possible
33:36
Speaker 1: to beat someone to death in the front seat of
33:40
Speaker 1: the car? I remember there was blood on the headrest,
33:42
Speaker 1: there was blood on the seat. Or was the individual
33:45
Speaker 1: transferred from the vehicle into the trunk of the car?
33:49
Speaker 1: Did this maybe occur in another location and the car
33:53
Speaker 1: was used to transport the individual somewhere I don't know.
33:57
Speaker 1: So as the investigation unfolded, Lease learned and were able
34:02
Speaker 1: to pinpoint where Bouchard had spent the last three days.
34:07
Speaker 1: He had been visiting an old patient, Kelsey Turner, twenty
34:13
Speaker 1: five years old. She is a model and an actress
34:17
Speaker 1: on Instagram and there was a relationship between her and
34:24
Speaker 1: doctor Bouchard. At the time, we did not know what
34:28
Speaker 1: their relationship was. Now we know that doctor Bouchard was
34:33
Speaker 1: paying for the home that she lived in, paying for
34:36
Speaker 1: credit cards, and they had an intimate relationship. Police were
34:42
Speaker 1: able to go back to the home and at the
34:45
Speaker 1: home they found a situation that was pretty similar to
34:51
Speaker 1: what they found in the car. There was blood. The
34:57
Speaker 1: blood in the vehicle doesn't marry where the blood that
35:00
Speaker 1: is spilled at this scene, at this home, if you will.
35:05
Speaker 1: And that's going to be essential because you go back
35:08
Speaker 1: to the dynamics of the event and what were the
35:10
Speaker 1: patterns of blood that they found within the home. Obviously
35:14
Speaker 1: they have blood. We have this this door that's within
35:18
Speaker 1: the house that had apparently been knocked off of the hinges.
35:21
Speaker 1: You start talking about things becoming unhinged or being knocked
35:25
Speaker 1: off the hinges, that that those are action terms. We're
35:29
Speaker 1: talking about a tussle that's going on, maybe with great
35:32
Speaker 1: force that's being applied to try to subdue doctor Bouchard.
35:38
Speaker 1: And one of the things you have to consider is
35:40
Speaker 1: was he taken unaware in this place. He shows up
35:43
Speaker 1: to talk to this woman and to try to engage
35:46
Speaker 1: with her and to tell her that things are quickly
35:49
Speaker 1: coming to an end, perhaps in their relationship, and then
35:53
Speaker 1: she's essentially laying in wait. She knows that he's coming well,
35:58
Speaker 1: and she's not real big. I've seen images of her
36:00
Speaker 1: and it really makes you think would she have been
36:03
Speaker 1: strong enough even though he's a bit older. Would she
36:06
Speaker 1: have been strong enough to get the upper hand on
36:08
Speaker 1: him even with a baseball beat. People think about about
36:12
Speaker 1: the psychiatrist as being very kind of nerdy and bookworms
36:16
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. Understand what they do for
36:18
Speaker 1: a living. Psychiatrists have to deal with patients many times
36:22
Speaker 1: that are highly agitated. They have to deal with people
36:24
Speaker 1: that are very, very aggressive, So he would have had experience,
36:29
Speaker 1: certainly trying to subdue somebody. He might not be a
36:32
Speaker 1: martial artist per se, but he's been in circumstances throughout
36:36
Speaker 1: his career where he would be very defensive and have
36:41
Speaker 1: maybe more of an awareness. Say, for instance, if you
36:43
Speaker 1: had a surgeon that walked in there to deal with this.
36:46
Speaker 1: This guy has dealt with people that are out of control,
36:48
Speaker 1: so that's an interesting dynamic. Would she have been strong
36:51
Speaker 1: enough in order to overtake him and then absolutely beat
36:55
Speaker 1: him to death with a baseball bet? But the question
36:59
Speaker 1: is would he have been strong enough to subdue Kelsey
37:03
Speaker 1: Turner's boyfriend. Doctor Michard may have been six feet tall
37:08
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty pounds, but Kelsey Turner's boyfriend was
37:12
Speaker 1: younger and stronger. Inside the home, they found a door
37:18
Speaker 1: had been kicked off the hinges. They found blood in
37:23
Speaker 1: a garage. They found towels in the home that matched
37:28
Speaker 1: a bloody towel that was found. So you could see
37:31
Speaker 1: investigators starting to piece together all of the information of
37:36
Speaker 1: this murder puzzle. Yeah, when you have items home, items
37:40
Speaker 1: that are found in a vehicle and they're essentially saturated
37:43
Speaker 1: in blood, you find similar items at a home, Yeah,
37:46
Speaker 1: that's a big tell for us investigatively, because you have
37:49
Speaker 1: to ask the question, what is this item doing in
37:52
Speaker 1: the vehicle when I have a matching item at the
37:55
Speaker 1: scene where obviously some type of terrific struggle has taken place.
38:00
Speaker 1: This point when police are investigating this, you know, we've
38:02
Speaker 1: talked about blood a lot in this particular case, and
38:05
Speaker 1: there was obviously a copious amount of it. One of
38:08
Speaker 1: the questions that an investigator has to ask, is this
38:11
Speaker 1: the only blood? Is this blood a single source blood
38:15
Speaker 1: or do we have commingled blood? Do we have blood
38:17
Speaker 1: that might have originated from somebody else. Yeah, I'm sure
38:21
Speaker 1: that probably with her help the boyfriend, her current boyfriend,
38:26
Speaker 1: could have probably easily subdued this guy. But he may
38:29
Speaker 1: have put up a fight. He may have drawn blood
38:32
Speaker 1: on either Kelsey or her boyfriend, and you have the
38:36
Speaker 1: coming in the blood. You know what, if one of
38:38
Speaker 1: them got popped in the nose, they start to bleed,
38:40
Speaker 1: and those blood spots that you find a scene at
38:43
Speaker 1: the home where this probably took place, or they commingled there,
38:47
Speaker 1: or when they're transporting the body out of the house
38:49
Speaker 1: and they're placed it in the car, you have blood
38:51
Speaker 1: commingled in there. How did blood get into the cabin
38:55
Speaker 1: of the car if he's in the trunk of the car,
38:58
Speaker 1: was he ever seated in the front seat, or was
39:00
Speaker 1: the person that perpetrated this crime just absolutely saturated in
39:05
Speaker 1: the victim's blood and they drove them out there. One
39:08
Speaker 1: of the other things investigators found was an effort to
39:12
Speaker 1: clean up the blood, and as we've talked about many times,
39:16
Speaker 1: when there's a murderer, there's always an attempt to clean
39:20
Speaker 1: it up. There was cleaning supplies found in the home.
39:23
Speaker 1: So now we can talk about all those other wonderful
39:26
Speaker 1: words like smears and transfer blood and swipes, and the
39:33
Speaker 1: wonderful fact that you can tell the difference in all
39:37
Speaker 1: of those things, isn't it's something that those patterns that
39:40
Speaker 1: you work so hard to clean up, Not you, Jackie,
39:43
Speaker 1: but you in the universal sense that perpetrators used to
39:47
Speaker 1: try to clean up with. They're going to leave some
39:50
Speaker 1: remnant behind. You think about these transfers of blood. Somebody is, say,
39:54
Speaker 1: for instance, saturated in blood, and they take their bare
39:57
Speaker 1: hand or maybe even their gloved hand and they place
40:00
Speaker 1: it on the floor, and that transfers that pattern left
40:04
Speaker 1: behind on the floor of their hand, and they can
40:05
Speaker 1: go back and try to clean that up. But if
40:07
Speaker 1: you bring in an agent like blue star or luminol,
40:12
Speaker 1: you can actually see these patterns. Many times that will
40:15
Speaker 1: lumines in the dark for just a brief second. You
40:18
Speaker 1: have to snap a photo of it, but you can
40:20
Speaker 1: pick up some detail in that environment and kind of
40:23
Speaker 1: understand the effort. You know, we talked about betting that
40:26
Speaker 1: was found in the car. If you wrapped the body
40:29
Speaker 1: or secure the body that's saturated within the betting, and
40:33
Speaker 1: you dragged them across this floor, you're going to leave
40:36
Speaker 1: this kind of furrow, if you will, that kind of
40:38
Speaker 1: leaves this curved pattern or curvilinear pattern, as they say,
40:43
Speaker 1: dragging across the floor, you'll see these little swirls on
40:46
Speaker 1: the ground, and that gives you again an indication of movement.
40:50
Speaker 1: And you know, this case is all about patterns when
40:53
Speaker 1: you really think about it. It's it's the patterns that
40:55
Speaker 1: you find within the cabin of the car, the patterns
40:59
Speaker 1: that you find, the transfer patterns perhaps that you found
41:01
Speaker 1: on the outside of the trunk as somebody's trying to
41:03
Speaker 1: leverage and body in there. And even one other thing
41:05
Speaker 1: that the corner found was that when they were examining
41:09
Speaker 1: those lacerations on top of the doctor's head, they actually
41:14
Speaker 1: found a pattern that married up with a baseball bat.
41:17
Speaker 1: So this whole case kind of comes down to that
41:20
Speaker 1: when you think about a baseball bat striking a surface
41:23
Speaker 1: and hitting that soft tissue. If our listeners at home,
41:27
Speaker 1: I'll give you a great kind of experiment to do.
41:30
Speaker 1: If you have access to say, for instance, like a
41:33
Speaker 1: silly putty or like Plato or something, and you take
41:36
Speaker 1: an object and it can be like a spoon, for instance,
41:39
Speaker 1: the bowl, the bottom of the bowl, the stereor of
41:41
Speaker 1: the spoon, press it down into this putty, and then
41:46
Speaker 1: leave the spoon there and see what happens to the putty.
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Speaker 1: It rises up over the edges of that spoon and
41:51
Speaker 1: headed towards the bowl. That's the same principle with striking
41:54
Speaker 1: someone with kind of a rounded object like a bat.
41:57
Speaker 1: Did you know that when you strike that area of
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Speaker 1: the skin and you're going to break it and leave
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Speaker 1: blood everywhere, But when you strike that area of the skin,
42:07
Speaker 1: do you know that that skin actually kind of stretches
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Speaker 1: out and wraps itself just for a second, like a
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Speaker 1: middlesecond around the edges of the bat, And you can
42:16
Speaker 1: sometimes pick up a pattern of it. And you know
42:19
Speaker 1: how baseball bat is kind of tapered, starts off with
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Speaker 1: a big barrel at the end, and it kind of
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Speaker 1: narrows down as it goes down. I've actually seen cases
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Speaker 1: where you can actually pick up on that narrowing pattern,
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Speaker 1: depended upon where they actually strike an individual with the
42:32
Speaker 1: surface of that bat. Ex Playboy Bunny Kelsey Turner has
42:37
Speaker 1: taken a plea deal in the murder charges against her
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Speaker 1: for the death of doctor Thomas Bouchard after accepting an
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Speaker 1: Alfred please, where she doesn't have to admit guilt in
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Speaker 1: the slang of doctor Thomas Brussard, but does admit that
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Speaker 1: the authorities have enough evidence to charge her. She could
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Speaker 1: face up to twenty five years in prison. I'm Joseph
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Bags.