Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MOM LINDSAY CLANCY GOOGLES “WAYS TO KILL” 3 TOTS DEAD W/ EXERCISE BANDS

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MOM LINDSAY CLANCY GOOGLES “WAYS TO KILL” 3 TOTS DEAD W/ EXERCISE BANDS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: A loving mom. Lindsey Clancy googles ways to kill, then
0:07
Speaker 1: murders her three thoughts dead in the basement with her
0:12
Speaker 1: own exercise bands. Tonight, she claims, I was crazy good evening.
0:20
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories. I want to
0:23
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
0:32
Speaker 2: She knew, she knew right for wrong.
0:34
Speaker 3: What appears to be perfectly seen obviously was not.
0:39
Speaker 2: This woman. Whatever happened, whether it was.
0:41
Speaker 4: Planned in her mind, committed one of the most heenous
0:44
Speaker 4: acts I have ever heard.
0:47
Speaker 5: On Summer's Street was full of the police.
0:51
Speaker 6: Phil Hardy off the top Florida house and place earth
0:54
Speaker 6: as well, and.
0:55
Speaker 5: Neck injuries and Nick collaboration. She's conscious at this time.
0:59
Speaker 6: We're gonna check with the place.
1:00
Speaker 1: Who's over twenty foot fall.
1:02
Speaker 7: It's unknown where the knife is or whatever she used
1:06
Speaker 7: to splitter. She's in the looks like the opinion are
1:12
Speaker 7: on the back. We'll get that she.
1:16
Speaker 5: Did use the knife at first. Unknown where that is
1:18
Speaker 5: at this time. I'm on the way. We're with the
1:25
Speaker 5: county arrest as the two pediatrics arrests. We got to
1:34
Speaker 5: mutulate on the way.
1:36
Speaker 1: You are hearing the nine to one one calls at
1:39
Speaker 1: least part of them because the initial nine one one
1:44
Speaker 1: is from the father, the dad of those children. The
1:48
Speaker 1: judge has ordered that that not be released. While we
1:53
Speaker 1: are not bound by that judge's ruling, we are adhering
1:56
Speaker 1: to it in the interest of justice. Instead, you are
2:01
Speaker 1: hearing back and forth between law enforcement. Is that the
2:05
Speaker 1: missing piece of the puzzle. Mom slits her own wrists
2:12
Speaker 1: and jumps out a window after killing all three of
2:18
Speaker 1: her children, the youngest just eight months old. We have
2:23
Speaker 1: seen child murders by mommy many many times before. Is
2:30
Speaker 1: this the fact that sets her Lindsey Clancy apart from
2:37
Speaker 1: other moms? Well, do I have to say taught mom
2:41
Speaker 1: Casey Anthony Instead of any remorse, she was in every
2:46
Speaker 1: bar in town on stripper poles. Okay, so that's not
2:50
Speaker 1: really a good comparison. What about Angia Yates. Angrea Yates
2:56
Speaker 1: murdered all of her children similar to this case. She
3:01
Speaker 1: waits until her husband Rusty is gone, locks the doors
3:06
Speaker 1: and methodically kills each child, and they fought to live.
3:10
Speaker 1: Their bodies were bruised from fighting to get out from
3:14
Speaker 1: under the water where she held them under. Andrea Yates
3:18
Speaker 1: claimed postpartum psychosis and she was deemed to be psychotic
3:25
Speaker 1: at the time of the murders, and she is in
3:27
Speaker 1: a mental facility today years later. But then you've got
3:31
Speaker 1: Deanna Laney, also known as rock Mom, who bludgeoned her
3:36
Speaker 1: children dead with a rock, leaving one of them, as
3:41
Speaker 1: I recall, with permanent brain damage. She claimed psychosis. After
3:46
Speaker 1: eight short years she has walked free. Different scenarios, same
3:52
Speaker 1: underlining theory, joining me in All Star Powel. But first,
3:55
Speaker 1: let's take a listen to those nine on one calls
3:57
Speaker 1: again again to the control room do not play dad.
4:03
Speaker 4: On Summer's Street was full the police stille party across
4:07
Speaker 4: the top floor of the house players as well, and
4:10
Speaker 4: neck injuries and the neck collaborations.
4:12
Speaker 7: She's conscious at this time.
4:13
Speaker 5: We're gonna check with my plate who was over at
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Speaker 5: twenty foot fall.
4:17
Speaker 7: It's unknown where the knight is or whatever she used
4:20
Speaker 7: to slay her. She's in the looks like their opinion
4:26
Speaker 7: are on the back. Well, uh get that she.
4:30
Speaker 6: Did use a knife at first.
4:31
Speaker 5: Unknown where that is at this time. I love I'm
4:38
Speaker 5: on the way where with the county arrest as the
4:46
Speaker 5: two pediatrics arrests were got to mutilate on the way
4:50
Speaker 5: mutualate at this time.
4:53
Speaker 1: Before I head out to our all star panel, including
4:56
Speaker 1: Christina Rex, out of this jurisdiction. He was being in
4:59
Speaker 1: the court room since the beginning and was at the
5:02
Speaker 1: crime scene the night of the murders of the three children.
5:05
Speaker 1: Before I go to Christina Rex and the rest of
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Speaker 1: our panel, I want you to hear what Clancy's defense
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Speaker 1: attorney has to say.
5:13
Speaker 4: She's extremely emotional. However, she's unable and has been unable
5:19
Speaker 4: to express any happiness or sadness or cry. And in fact,
5:28
Speaker 4: sometime about a month or two ago, she made the comment,
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Speaker 4: I just wish that I could feel something now. Our
5:36
Speaker 4: society fails miserably in treating women with post partum depression
5:45
Speaker 4: or even post partum psychosis.
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Speaker 1: From our friends at court chop, let me see a
5:51
Speaker 1: picture of the three children. We are seemingly focusing on
5:56
Speaker 1: the mom Lindsay Clancy, not on the three murder victims
6:02
Speaker 1: who could not fight back. They were strangled dead with
6:06
Speaker 1: mommy's exercise bands. After she googled ways to kill After
6:12
Speaker 1: she googled can you treat a sociopath? After writing in
6:19
Speaker 1: her journal that she resented her older two children, she
6:26
Speaker 1: sends the dad out for takeout food and to the pharmacy,
6:32
Speaker 1: waits for him to leave, and murders her children. And
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Speaker 1: let me remind everyone, Lindsey Clancy is presumed innocent. Joining
6:43
Speaker 1: me Christina Rex, reporter WBZTV in the courtroom from the
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Speaker 1: get go and on the crime scene that night, I
6:52
Speaker 1: hear the defense lawyer saying she's been crying. Oh, okay,
6:57
Speaker 1: I guess so she should crying. Some juncture she says
7:02
Speaker 1: she's crying. Sometimes she says she's not crying. I don't
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Speaker 1: care if she's crying. They're dead. First, before we get
7:11
Speaker 1: to what's happening in the courtroom, there's gonna be hand
7:14
Speaker 1: to hand mutual combat over this case, because the prosecutor
7:17
Speaker 1: is digging in that mommy made a plan, The defense
7:21
Speaker 1: is digging in. This is not just postpartum depression, is
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Speaker 1: postpartum psychosis. But I want to go to the night
7:27
Speaker 1: of the crime itself. Christina Rex, what did you observe
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Speaker 1: at the scene?
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Speaker 8: Yeah, so this is top three worst crime scenes I've
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Speaker 8: ever been to. You know, as a reporter, we're behind
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Speaker 8: the crime scene tape, so luckily I'm not. I didn't
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Speaker 8: see the groupsome details, but I've never seen police officers
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Speaker 8: weeping at a crime scene the way I did that night.
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Speaker 8: When we had gotten there, it was, you know, a
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Speaker 8: breaking news. We just heard it over the scanner. We
7:52
Speaker 8: didn't know what was going on. We just could tell
7:54
Speaker 8: it was something bad. But when I got to the
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Speaker 8: crime scene and I saw police officers leaving the house
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Speaker 8: in tears, we knew it was really, really a bad situation.
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Speaker 1: And said that Christina Rex is my understanding that it
8:06
Speaker 1: was so bad that the seasoned officers had to get counseling.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, it's not unusual in Massachusetts after a traumatic event,
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Speaker 8: often ones involving children for the police stations to offer counseling.
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Speaker 8: But in this case, we know officers took the station
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Speaker 8: up on that, it took the department up on that,
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Speaker 8: and really did need that support because it was how
8:31
Speaker 8: traumatic this crime scene was.
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Speaker 1: The children were all found herded into the basement and dead,
8:37
Speaker 1: strangled with mommy's exercise bands. You get there on the scene, again,
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Speaker 1: what did you actually observe.
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Speaker 8: Police officers in and out of the house bringing out
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Speaker 8: evidence bags, which is pretty standard to see police officers crying,
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Speaker 8: And I remember the district attorney showed up on the
8:57
Speaker 8: scene and held a press conference after ten pm, which
9:03
Speaker 8: I know that doesn't seem odd maybe to the general public,
9:07
Speaker 8: but for the district attorney, the head of the department
9:10
Speaker 8: for that entire county, to show up on scene to
9:13
Speaker 8: speak to the media that late at night, you knew
9:16
Speaker 8: this was something really serious.
9:18
Speaker 1: Were you there when the children's bodies were wheeled out?
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Speaker 8: Yes, but in Massachusetts the often the medical examiner will
9:28
Speaker 8: bring a van and block the view of any members
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Speaker 8: of the public or cameras as they bring the bodies out,
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Speaker 8: so I didn't actually see them.
9:37
Speaker 1: I want to go to that night. Christina Rex joining
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Speaker 1: us out of wb Z TV. Was mommy taken into
9:47
Speaker 1: custody that night.
9:51
Speaker 8: Yes, but it's complicated, so she had injuries of her own,
9:56
Speaker 8: so she was taken to a hospital. She was actually
9:58
Speaker 8: taken to the local hospital near Duxbury where they lived,
10:01
Speaker 8: and then brought to Boston because of the seriousness of
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Speaker 8: her injuries you can see in the pictures here. So
10:08
Speaker 8: she was in custody in the sense that she was
10:12
Speaker 8: technically arrested and had police guards outside of her hospital
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Speaker 8: room and at her hospital bed, and she wasn't allowed visitors.
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Speaker 8: But you know, not taken into custody in the sense
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Speaker 8: of going to jail the way we would think of
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Speaker 8: it traditionally, because she was so hurt.
10:27
Speaker 1: Joining me is a renowned medical examiner, the chief medical
10:31
Speaker 1: examiner in Terren County, that's Fort Worth, Texas. He's an
10:35
Speaker 1: esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU.
10:40
Speaker 1: He's a star of a hit podcast, Make Him in
10:42
Speaker 1: the Morgue, and he has performed well over ten thousand autopsies.
10:50
Speaker 1: Not only that, he has a husband and a father.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, We've got two divergent views of what happened.
11:02
Speaker 1: I don't know the truth of it. Was she in
11:05
Speaker 1: postpartum psychosis not depression psychosis? Were you actually do not
11:11
Speaker 1: understand what you're doing? In this case, she heard a
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Speaker 1: quote unknown mal voice ordering her to kill the children.
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Speaker 1: She states that she said, go to God baby when
11:28
Speaker 1: she killed her children. So I've got the injuries to
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Speaker 1: the three children, what happened to their bodies, And I've
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Speaker 1: got mommy trying to slit her wrists and jumping out
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Speaker 1: of a window and apparently paralyzing herself. Let's start with
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Speaker 1: the children. Doctor Kendall Crown's strangulation. With the use of
11:47
Speaker 1: exercise bands, what would the bodies reveal? Would I be
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Speaker 1: able to tell if they fought back like I know
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Speaker 1: they did in the injury of Yates case because their
11:56
Speaker 1: bodies were covered in bruises.
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Speaker 9: So sized bands are these kind of rubbery stilicone or
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Speaker 9: latex bands. They have a fair amount of stretch to them.
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Speaker 9: Each child has them tied around their necks quite tightly,
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Speaker 9: So as far as findings would be, you would it's
12:17
Speaker 9: a ligature strangulation, so it would leave an impression around
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Speaker 9: the neck that she could find at autopsy. Due to
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Speaker 9: the young nature of the children, their throat structures, hyoid bone,
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Speaker 9: thyroid cartilage wouldn't fracture because they aren't bony yet. You
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Speaker 9: might see some neck muscular hemorrhages. As far as them
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Speaker 9: fighting back, the infant, of course, probably wouldn't do much
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Speaker 9: of anything. The slightly older children. The oldest child could
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Speaker 9: kind of grab at the ligature trying to pull it off,
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Speaker 9: which would leave fingernail marks on the neck as she
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Speaker 9: was trying to remove the ligature from about her neck.
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Speaker 9: If she fought back against her mom, she might have
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Speaker 9: scratched at her mom, but it wouldn't show many injuries
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Speaker 9: to her hands. Children don't have a lot of strength,
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Speaker 9: so you don't usually see a lot of offensive injuries
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Speaker 9: on them, meaning like punching or something like that. Typically,
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Speaker 9: what you're going to find in a case like this
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Speaker 9: is them trying to get that ligature off their neck
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Speaker 9: and seeing scratches around their neck.
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Speaker 1: Dodger Kndall crowns. If the children have been dosed with
13:21
Speaker 1: let's just say benadryl as an example, how would we
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Speaker 1: tell that, because if they didn't try to fight back,
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Speaker 1: were they dosed.
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Speaker 9: So commonly in these type of cases, the mother does
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Speaker 9: poison them or gives them a drug to put them
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Speaker 9: in a sedative sedative state so they aren't moving around
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Speaker 9: and they aren't fighting back, and also the parent doesn't
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Speaker 9: have to deal with them crying as well, which is
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Speaker 9: going to be very difficult. Benadryl is a typical one
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Speaker 9: that is used because it'll put a child into a sleepy,
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Speaker 9: trans like state, so they can be easily killed. One
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Speaker 9: of the things we're going to look for in this
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Speaker 9: situation is benadryl in the stomach, which leaves kind of
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Speaker 9: a pink residue in the stomach contents itself, depending on
14:04
Speaker 9: how much benadryl was used, and then we'll also look
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Speaker 9: at it in tuxologic testing, looking for specifically diphen hydramine,
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Speaker 9: which is the non trade name of benadryl.
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Speaker 1: Dodger Kimmel Crown's I want to move to the mom,
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Speaker 1: Lindsey Clancy. I feel that there is enough evidence to
14:29
Speaker 1: show she knew what she was doing. She had the
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Speaker 1: wherewithal to lie to her husband saying she was too
14:35
Speaker 1: exhausted to cook dinner and could he bring home takeout,
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Speaker 1: and to the pharmacy to make sure he would be
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Speaker 1: gone long enough, long enough time to herd the children,
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Speaker 1: get them down to the basement to retrieve the exercise bands. However,
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Speaker 1: have you seen the list of meds she was on.
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Speaker 1: It's called poly pharm I don't know what doctors were
15:04
Speaker 1: giving her all these meds, but take all these meds
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Speaker 1: and this alone would make you out of your mind.
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Speaker 1: Listen to this. I'm going to give you the street names,
15:13
Speaker 1: the Latin names. The clinical names are unpronounceable to us
15:19
Speaker 1: regular people. Ambion which is zulpinum, klonopin, valium which is diazepam, prozac, lamic,
15:29
Speaker 1: till adavan, remern, sarah quill, trazodone. I mean, I believe
15:39
Speaker 1: she was on either eleven to thirteen prescriptions, and the
15:43
Speaker 1: each one is heavy duty. I'm not talking about a
15:46
Speaker 1: baby aspen doctor, serious serious medication, sleep pills, long acting
15:54
Speaker 1: anxiety pills, Sleep and anxiety. That's valium, antidepressant, mood stabilizers,
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Speaker 1: another anxiety and sleep, another sleep an antipsychotic, another sleep.
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Speaker 1: This woman had checked herself into voluntarily into clinics before
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Speaker 1: the murders. What are these meds, doctor Kendall Crowns.
16:22
Speaker 9: So the medications you're describing are mixture of anti anxiety,
16:27
Speaker 9: antidepressants and as you said, sleep aids. She's obviously struggling
16:32
Speaker 9: with us ongoing anxiety depression, and this can all be
16:36
Speaker 9: brought on by pregnancy. It's a known clinical diagnosis. I'm
16:40
Speaker 9: not a psychiatrist, so I couldn't tell you exactly how
16:44
Speaker 9: it all works and what medications are best. But obviously
16:48
Speaker 9: she was going through something to be on that many
16:51
Speaker 9: anti anxiety, antidepressive medications. So does it play a factor?
16:56
Speaker 9: I couldn't tell you, but again it is something to consider.
17:00
Speaker 10: At approximately six to eleven last night, the Duxbury Police
17:02
Speaker 10: received a nine to eleven call for a report of
17:05
Speaker 10: a suspected attempted suicide of a female resident who had
17:09
Speaker 10: jumped from a window at the home at forty seven
17:11
Speaker 10: Summer Street. Upon arrival, Duxbury Police and Fire located the
17:17
Speaker 10: woman and she was treated on scene and transported to
17:20
Speaker 10: a local hospital for treatment, where she remains at this time.
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Speaker 10: She's been identified as Lindsay Clancy, aged thirty two. First
17:28
Speaker 10: Responders subsequently located three children in the homes under the
17:32
Speaker 10: age of five, unconscious with obvious signs of severe trauma.
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Speaker 10: A five year old girl and a three year old
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Speaker 10: boy were transported to Beth Israel deacon His Hospital in Plymouth,
17:44
Speaker 10: where they were pronounced deceased. They'd been identified as Cora
17:49
Speaker 10: Clancy and Dawson Clancy. A seven month old infant boy
17:55
Speaker 10: was med flighted to Boston Children's Hospital, where he remains
17:58
Speaker 10: for treatment as we speak. Preliminarily it appears the children
18:01
Speaker 10: were strangled.
18:03
Speaker 1: How did they know that doctor Kendel Crowns, that was
18:05
Speaker 1: Timothy Cruz from Plymouth County, the district attorney at that time.
18:09
Speaker 1: How could they look at the bodies. That's where our
18:12
Speaker 1: friends at WNU are and know the children. The babies
18:16
Speaker 1: were strangled.
18:18
Speaker 9: So I believe when they are all found, they have
18:21
Speaker 9: the exercise bands tied about their necks, so right there
18:26
Speaker 9: you're going to know they're strangled. If the exercise bands
18:28
Speaker 9: are not there, you're going to have a ligature impression
18:32
Speaker 9: left around the neck from the band itself, which is
18:34
Speaker 9: this kind of gray red to tan impression that matches
18:38
Speaker 9: the exercise band. The other thing is is because it's
18:42
Speaker 9: going to clip off the internal jugular and the carotid artery,
18:46
Speaker 9: you're going to get particular hemorrhages, so you'll have multiple
18:49
Speaker 9: little particular pinpoint hemorrhages about the face, in the inner eyelids,
18:55
Speaker 9: and on the micosa in the mouth. All those findings
18:58
Speaker 9: externally point to strangulation.
19:04
Speaker 10: As a result of information gathered during the course of
19:06
Speaker 10: the investigation, we developed problem cause and today are seeking
19:10
Speaker 10: and obtaining an arrest warrant on a Plymouth District Court
19:14
Speaker 10: charging thirty two year old Lindsay Clancy, the mother of
19:16
Speaker 10: these children with their homicides. Lindsay Clancy, as a state
19:20
Speaker 10: is being treated at Boston Hospital as soon as able.
19:24
Speaker 10: We will be arraigning her and the two childes of
19:25
Speaker 10: murders and the deaths of forate children.
19:27
Speaker 1: The baby Callen was being treated he died again. That's
19:31
Speaker 1: Timothy Cruz, the then Plymouth County District Attorney from our
19:35
Speaker 1: friends at wmur. Doctor Kendall Crowns, let me remind you
19:40
Speaker 1: is a chief medical examiner in Tyrrett County. That's fort Worth,
19:46
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns. If they had lived, would they have
19:51
Speaker 1: been brain damaged permanently?
19:54
Speaker 9: It is a possibility because of the fact that it
19:57
Speaker 9: only takes a matter of minutes, about three to four
20:00
Speaker 9: it's for you to have enough lack of oxygen to
20:04
Speaker 9: the brain to cause permanent brain damage. So even if
20:07
Speaker 9: they had survived, there would have been long term implications
20:11
Speaker 9: or sequella from the lack of oxygen getting through their brain.
20:16
Speaker 9: They potentially would have been in a persistent vegetative state
20:19
Speaker 9: for their entire lives.
20:21
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, I knew it was only a matter
20:23
Speaker 1: of time, doctor kendl Crown's. You're hitting me with Latin
20:27
Speaker 1: doctor Phrasers. What is sequilla?
20:31
Speaker 9: That is the consequences of having the lack of oxygen
20:34
Speaker 9: to your brain prinkma or your brain. Your brain starts dying.
20:39
Speaker 9: So the sequela of brain death means you might be paralyzed,
20:44
Speaker 9: you might be unable to breathe for yourself. You might
20:46
Speaker 9: have to be on all sorts of machines to keep
20:49
Speaker 9: you alive, which would be the vegetative state that they
20:52
Speaker 9: potentially could have been from the brain damage caused from
20:55
Speaker 9: the lack of oxygen to their brain.
20:58
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendl Crowns, how do you do it? How do
21:02
Speaker 1: you stay so calm and clinical? I was thinking about
21:09
Speaker 1: you explaining sequela. It sounds like the Latin derivative of sequence,
21:14
Speaker 1: the sequence of events following the strangulations with Mimmy's exercise bands.
21:19
Speaker 1: The sequence of events would be that they are forever
21:22
Speaker 1: in a persistent, as you say, vegetative state. In other words,
21:25
Speaker 1: like a coma. They can't move, they can't talk, they
21:29
Speaker 1: can't play, they can't speak. They're just lying there on
21:33
Speaker 1: life support until they die. The sequella, the sequence of
21:40
Speaker 1: events vegetative, vegetable, that's what happened to them. How do you,
21:48
Speaker 1: doctor Kimmel crimes, especially in light of the fact you're
21:53
Speaker 1: a dad, How do you not talk talk about this case?
21:58
Speaker 1: And think about your own children.
22:03
Speaker 9: So any pediatric case, well really, any case is upsetting.
22:07
Speaker 9: It's sad when someone dies, especially with children. Children really
22:11
Speaker 9: can't defend themselves. Children are innocent and they had a
22:15
Speaker 9: long life to live. It's upsetting. It's upsetting to me.
22:19
Speaker 9: I mean, like you said, I have kids, but I
22:23
Speaker 9: separate myself from the fact that they are not my children.
22:27
Speaker 9: And I have a job to do and if I
22:28
Speaker 9: do not, if I get too emotional, I get wrapped
22:32
Speaker 9: up in the emotion of the death of this child,
22:35
Speaker 9: I cannot perform my duties. I have a job to
22:38
Speaker 9: do to determine the cause and manner of death, no
22:41
Speaker 9: matter how upsetting it is. That's what I'm there to do,
22:44
Speaker 9: is to determine their cause and manner of death. And
22:47
Speaker 9: I would be doing a disservice to the decendent or
22:49
Speaker 9: the dead person and the family, the living family if
22:53
Speaker 9: I don't do my job correctly. So I can't sit
22:56
Speaker 9: there and be upset about this horrible tragedy. That is
22:59
Speaker 9: a because I have a job to do and that's
23:02
Speaker 9: what I do every day.
23:04
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, I want to talk about the mother
23:09
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to go to doctor Catherine Bendorf.
23:12
Speaker 1: She is a psychiatrist, postpartum expert, co founder and CEO
23:17
Speaker 1: of the medical director at the Motherhood Center in New York.
23:22
Speaker 1: You know what, hold on, because I want to come
23:23
Speaker 1: back to you about the physical nature of her injuries,
23:28
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns. And I would like to state that
23:34
Speaker 1: I can't think of anyone I would trust more performing
23:40
Speaker 1: an autopsy than doctor Kendall Crowns because of his, of
23:45
Speaker 1: course experience and education, but his steadiness. And as a
23:51
Speaker 1: former prosecutor. What am I going to do with a
23:53
Speaker 1: doctor that gets on the stand and cracks up and
23:55
Speaker 1: starts crying or gets upset. I mean, okay, I'm already upset.
24:00
Speaker 1: I don't need my medical examiner to be upset. Doctor
24:03
Speaker 1: Catherine Bendorf, you just must be like a limp dishrag
24:10
Speaker 1: because you deal with this every day. Oh my goodness,
24:14
Speaker 1: I've got so much to say about you. I'll try
24:16
Speaker 1: to see it quickly so you can get to the case. Okay,
24:18
Speaker 1: hold on. Founding Member Payne Whitney Women's Program at will
24:24
Speaker 1: Cornell Medicine. That's the New York Presbyterian Hospital. That's not shabby.
24:28
Speaker 1: Doctor not shabby, author of What No One Tells You,
24:32
Speaker 1: A Guide to Your Emotions From Pregnancy to Motherhood. All
24:35
Speaker 1: I had was what to expect when You're expecting it,
24:37
Speaker 1: and I was too tired to read it. I never
24:39
Speaker 1: heard about this What No One Tells You, A Guide
24:41
Speaker 1: to your Emotions from Pregnancy to Motherhood, and the Nine
24:46
Speaker 1: Rooms of Happiness, Loving your life, finding your purpose, getting
24:49
Speaker 1: over life's little imperfections. Doctor Bendorf, I could go on,
24:53
Speaker 1: but I want to get to the case in chief.
24:56
Speaker 1: You heard all of those pills and meds she was
25:01
Speaker 1: on once, I believe for schizophrenia, how can one person
25:06
Speaker 1: take all those meds and even function.
25:11
Speaker 4: Well.
25:12
Speaker 11: For individuals with postpartum psychosis, they have to try different
25:19
Speaker 11: medications to see what works, and they are often tried
25:23
Speaker 11: at different times, not all at the same time. So
25:27
Speaker 11: for individuals suffering from illnesses like this, bipolar disorder, psychotic disorders, depression, anxiety,
25:36
Speaker 11: we generally try things. These are trial and air psychopharmacology,
25:41
Speaker 11: as you said, for polypharmacy, you know might be seen
25:46
Speaker 11: because there are multiple different medications being tried at different times.
25:51
Speaker 11: Sometimes there's a cross taper when you're putting one on
25:54
Speaker 11: and taking one off. So you know, I don't have
25:57
Speaker 11: an understanding of how these meds and what sequence they
26:00
Speaker 11: were used, but for someone with postpartum psychosis, they are medication.
26:05
Speaker 11: They sound like medications that are legitimately used for such
26:10
Speaker 11: an illness.
26:11
Speaker 1: What do you make of her being on this potpourri
26:14
Speaker 1: of serious, serious drugs.
26:19
Speaker 11: Again, for individuals with postpartum psychosis, I would say typically
26:25
Speaker 11: one is on three medications at minimum, right, a mood stabilizer,
26:30
Speaker 11: an antipsychotic, and probably an anti anxiety medication. That's a
26:35
Speaker 11: typical group of medications to treat. To really get a
26:40
Speaker 11: hold of this severe, serious, life threatening illness that is
26:45
Speaker 11: a psychiatric or medical emergency, you need to use the
26:49
Speaker 11: big guns, so to speak. And not all medications the
26:53
Speaker 11: first time work for somebody, so you might have to
26:56
Speaker 11: try something else. So what I make is that in somebody. Again,
27:01
Speaker 11: I don't know the sequence of events or when they
27:03
Speaker 11: were used at what times, but yeah, it would be
27:09
Speaker 11: uncommon to have somebody on all of them at the
27:11
Speaker 11: same time.
27:12
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sense of what I am learning
27:16
Speaker 1: about the case. Back to investigative reporter Christina Rex from WBZTV,
27:22
Speaker 1: who was there on the scene the night of the murders.
27:26
Speaker 1: Anne has been in court. This is going to be
27:29
Speaker 1: a not down drag out in court. The prosecutor is
27:32
Speaker 1: digging in that Mommy knew what she was doing. The
27:36
Speaker 1: defense is arguing postpartum psychosis. Psychosis is much different from depression.
27:42
Speaker 1: Christina Rex, Is it true that mom tried to commit suicide?
27:49
Speaker 4: Yes?
27:51
Speaker 1: In this case, Yes, it seems to me the state
27:55
Speaker 1: is going to argue, why did she try to commit
27:57
Speaker 1: suicide if she didn't know what she had just done
28:00
Speaker 1: was wrong.
28:02
Speaker 8: Yeah, it does seem like they're going to try to
28:04
Speaker 8: argue that. And not only that, they claim in their
28:07
Speaker 8: opening statements that there was a phone call that Lindsay
28:11
Speaker 8: actually pulled Patrick back. So you know, if the defense
28:16
Speaker 8: is arguing that she was in the state of psychosis,
28:17
Speaker 8: they're going to have to say when that was was
28:19
Speaker 8: it the entire time? Yeah, And at previous hearings the
28:24
Speaker 8: prosecutors had kind of insinuated that maybe the suicide attempt was,
28:28
Speaker 8: you know, feeble at best, which is something that the
28:32
Speaker 8: defense attorney really dug into in his opening statement fighting
28:35
Speaker 8: back against that allegation.
28:37
Speaker 1: Christina Rex WBZTV. You stated that a phone call was made.
28:43
Speaker 1: What is the significance of the phone call? When was
28:47
Speaker 1: the moment the call was made.
28:49
Speaker 8: So we always knew that there was a fourteen second
28:53
Speaker 8: phone call between Lindsay and Patrick at the point where
28:56
Speaker 8: Patrick was away from the house and when Lindsay was
28:59
Speaker 8: home alone with the kids that night. We didn't know
29:01
Speaker 8: specifically when the phone call happened. But in the prosecutor's
29:04
Speaker 8: opening statement, she claimed that the phone call happened in
29:08
Speaker 8: between the time when Lindsay had already killed the children
29:11
Speaker 8: in the basement and before she went upstairs to try
29:14
Speaker 8: to take her own life. So the claim was that
29:17
Speaker 8: Lindsay had a miss call on her phone from Patrick
29:19
Speaker 8: because he was at the pharmacy getting some medicine for
29:22
Speaker 8: their oldest daughter, and she called him back and had
29:26
Speaker 8: a fourteen second conversation with him, and she was on
29:29
Speaker 8: the first floor at the time then before she went
29:32
Speaker 8: upstairs to attempt to take her own life. So she
29:34
Speaker 8: spoke to him on the phone, and he had told
29:36
Speaker 8: investigators that she seemed normal, nothing seemed like it was.
29:40
Speaker 1: All Oh my stars, Now I see one of the
29:43
Speaker 1: prosecutors bringing it.
29:44
Speaker 8: Up, right, that's what the prosecutors are claiming happened there,
29:47
Speaker 8: and Patrick had told investigators early on that the only
29:53
Speaker 8: thing that seemed different on the phone call was that
29:55
Speaker 8: she seemed like she was distracted by something.
29:58
Speaker 1: The three bodies in the basement possibly. What can you
30:02
Speaker 1: tell me about her Internet searches?
30:05
Speaker 8: So prosecutors say that over the course of some time,
30:09
Speaker 8: I don't know the specific amount of time, but not
30:11
Speaker 8: just that day. On the family laptop, which only Lindsay
30:15
Speaker 8: and Patrick had access to, there were searches for suicidal ideations,
30:21
Speaker 8: ways to commit suicide, ways to kill. And Patrick has
30:26
Speaker 8: testified that he didn't make those searches. So then the
30:28
Speaker 8: takeaway is that Lindsay is the one who made those searches.
30:31
Speaker 1: Where did we learn about her writings? I guess it
30:34
Speaker 1: was in her journal that she resented the older two children.
30:40
Speaker 8: Yeah, Lindsay kept a diary, and this is part of
30:42
Speaker 8: the indictment, so you know, when the prosecutors indicted her,
30:46
Speaker 8: there's a whole statement of the case where they really
30:48
Speaker 8: lay out why they're charging her with first degree murder,
30:51
Speaker 8: and they claim that she kept a diary where she
30:53
Speaker 8: wrote kind of daily logs and sometimes feelings, and that
30:57
Speaker 8: she wrote at one point that she was and did
31:00
Speaker 8: her two older children because they put her in a
31:02
Speaker 8: position where she didn't feel like she could treat her
31:04
Speaker 8: youngest Kllen, like her first baby. And actually, Patrick testified
31:08
Speaker 8: that there were often times, you know, once Callen was born,
31:12
Speaker 8: where Lindsay would take care of the baby. They would often,
31:15
Speaker 8: he said, divide and conker, so Lindsay would take care
31:18
Speaker 8: of the baby Callen and Patrick would take care of
31:20
Speaker 8: the two older children.
31:21
Speaker 3: Bllymouth County, Massachusetts grand jury and diet of Lindsay Clancy
31:24
Speaker 3: and the killings of her three children, Cora five, Dawson three,
31:28
Speaker 3: and eight month old Kallen. The thirty three year old
31:30
Speaker 3: faces three counts each of murder and strangulation. CT Insider
31:35
Speaker 3: reports after allegedly killing her children, Clancy attempted to commit
31:38
Speaker 3: suicide by cutting her wrists and jumping out the second
31:41
Speaker 3: story window of her home. Clancy's attorney says she's paralyzed
31:44
Speaker 3: from the waist down, suffering from spinal injuries, and likely
31:48
Speaker 3: will never walk again.
31:53
Speaker 12: They were strangled, deliberately and meticulously killed by this defind
32:00
Speaker 12: on January twenty fourth, One by one, she wrapped exercise
32:04
Speaker 12: vans around each one of the kids necks and pulled
32:08
Speaker 12: until the little bodies were limp and lifeless, first Dawson,
32:15
Speaker 12: then Cora, and finally Calling. She goes to the second
32:19
Speaker 12: floor mastered bedroom, locks the door, crashes up some pills,
32:26
Speaker 12: and attempts to take her own knife. She uses the
32:30
Speaker 12: knife she got in the kitchen to slash her wrists
32:33
Speaker 12: and her neck. She moves the bed away from the wall,
32:37
Speaker 12: away from the window. She opens that window and goes out.
32:43
Speaker 12: She lands on the cold, hard ground. Patrick tells the
32:46
Speaker 12: first responders, I need to find my kids. He had
32:50
Speaker 12: asked the defendant where the kids were, and she told
32:54
Speaker 12: them they were in the basement, So when he went
32:55
Speaker 12: in the house, that's the first place he went down
32:57
Speaker 12: into the basement. He's still on the phone with nine
33:01
Speaker 12: to one one when he finds each child with an
33:05
Speaker 12: exercise fan still wrapped around their necks. He screams for
33:09
Speaker 12: help and he says he failed the kids.
33:14
Speaker 1: You are hearing the felony prosecutor in this case, Shannon Buckingham,
33:20
Speaker 1: giving her opening to the jury. That's why our friends
33:22
Speaker 1: at East Idaho News straight out now to veteran trial lawyer,
33:26
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Eric Fattus, founder the law offices of
33:31
Speaker 1: Eric Fattus. Okay, Eric, hit it, what's your best your
33:36
Speaker 1: best shot.
33:39
Speaker 6: I'm not sure I've seen a stronger mental health case
33:42
Speaker 6: in this case.
33:43
Speaker 1: The jury's got to decide.
33:44
Speaker 6: Is Lindsey Clancy a bloodthirsty monster who delights in the
33:49
Speaker 6: death of her own children? Or is she someone who
33:53
Speaker 6: was severely deranged hearing hallucinations of boys telling her to
33:57
Speaker 6: kill her children on teen drug cocktail and the person
34:03
Speaker 6: who the father of those children described as very, very
34:06
Speaker 6: sick at trial?
34:08
Speaker 1: Which one is she?
34:09
Speaker 6: I think everybody can look at the case, the historical record,
34:12
Speaker 6: things leading up to what happened, and determined that that
34:15
Speaker 6: it's the latter, that she had suffered a psychotic break,
34:18
Speaker 6: not only postpartum psychosis, but also bipolar disorder, contending with
34:22
Speaker 6: multiple diseases or defects, aligned with the defense statute in
34:27
Speaker 6: terms of a lack of criminal responsibility, a very strong
34:30
Speaker 6: mental health defense here.
34:31
Speaker 1: Christina rax WBZTV. Had she been in mental health therapy
34:39
Speaker 1: pre children? I know she had best part of depression,
34:44
Speaker 1: but before that, had she had treatment for schizophrenia or
34:47
Speaker 1: any other mental illness?
34:50
Speaker 8: So no, at least what her ex husband Patrick hastified
34:54
Speaker 8: to was that her mental health issues. You know, she
34:57
Speaker 8: struggled and had maybe seen a therapist briefly after her
35:00
Speaker 8: first or second child, but really when she got into
35:03
Speaker 8: mental health treatment, numerous different kinds of treatment. Was starting
35:07
Speaker 8: in September of twenty twenty two, which was just four
35:12
Speaker 8: or five months before she killed the kids.
35:15
Speaker 1: So prior to this, there had been no extend in
35:18
Speaker 1: mental health treatment. She was not under medications. Let's just
35:21
Speaker 1: say four hallucinations for suicidal ideation, for psychosis, for schizophrenia,
35:28
Speaker 1: even for depression. Nothing.
35:30
Speaker 8: Okay, that's correct.
35:32
Speaker 1: That's significant because the state's going to argue, so she
35:35
Speaker 1: suddenly went crazy now and killed her children. And back
35:39
Speaker 1: to you, Fattus, why are you saying either she is
35:44
Speaker 1: a quote your words, not mine, a bloodthirsty monster or
35:48
Speaker 1: a woman that had been over prescribed serious drugs. Those
35:52
Speaker 1: aren't my only two choices, and I don't really accept
35:56
Speaker 1: either one of them.
36:00
Speaker 6: I think the prosecutor has got to convince this jury
36:02
Speaker 6: that that Lindsey Clancy was of reasonably sound mind and
36:07
Speaker 6: did this in a calculated and knowing fashion, that this
36:10
Speaker 6: was deliberate, that she wanted to just off her kids.
36:13
Speaker 6: But there really just isn't any significant evidence of her
36:16
Speaker 6: motive to do that, of a reason to do that,
36:18
Speaker 6: of some kind of payoff.
36:20
Speaker 1: Instead, according to Patrick, did you just motive? WHOA? Let
36:26
Speaker 1: me send you back in the time machine to criminal
36:31
Speaker 1: law one l first year. The state doesn't have to
36:37
Speaker 1: prove motive. I don't have to get in her head
36:40
Speaker 1: and bang around like as Granny's attic and figure out
36:43
Speaker 1: what the motive is. We don't have to prove motive.
36:47
Speaker 1: So you don't erase Jurassic erase. Okay, try again, faddus.
36:57
Speaker 6: Even though motive is not an element of the press
37:00
Speaker 6: has to prove. Don't you think a jury wants to
37:03
Speaker 6: be given a reason why she would do this? The
37:05
Speaker 6: reason they have is that she voiced some frustration about
37:09
Speaker 6: some of her kids at some point. Haven't all parents
37:12
Speaker 6: done that? Does that equate to a motive to strangle
37:15
Speaker 6: three of your children to death?
37:17
Speaker 1: I don't think it does. Against common pectivity, don't need
37:20
Speaker 1: to show a motive. Why does any parent? You know
37:23
Speaker 1: what I've got an expert. Brian Bennett is joining us
37:26
Speaker 1: along with doctor Catherine Bendor. Brian Bennett, former state law
37:29
Speaker 1: enforcement officer over twenty five years, Senior Instructor in Advanced
37:34
Speaker 1: Behavioral Science at the State Police Academy in South Carolina
37:38
Speaker 1: sixteen years and he specializes in strangulation, assaults, domestic violence,
37:42
Speaker 1: and elder abuse. Brian, is there a motive to kill
37:48
Speaker 1: a child? Is there a good reason? Have you ever
37:51
Speaker 1: heard a good reason why the child has to die?
37:54
Speaker 1: I haven't.
37:55
Speaker 2: No, I mean never a good reason for me. Some
37:58
Speaker 2: of the offenders that we've arrested in the past, they
38:01
Speaker 2: formulate a reason that seems to make them feel better
38:04
Speaker 2: or justify their actions. With respect to this case, and
38:10
Speaker 2: one thing that I immediately thought of is something I
38:13
Speaker 2: say all the time, and that's patterns always exist before
38:17
Speaker 2: the time of discovery. What really matters is what do
38:20
Speaker 2: those patterns tell us. Certainly we have patterns of searching
38:24
Speaker 2: the internet, patterns of you know, sending the husband out,
38:28
Speaker 2: but we also see patterns of mental health treatment, patterns
38:33
Speaker 2: of going to doctors and getting medication. So the combination
38:37
Speaker 2: of patterns and what those mean are going to be
38:40
Speaker 2: really important to both the prosecution and defense and what
38:42
Speaker 2: the jury determines what has the most weight in their
38:46
Speaker 2: final decision.
38:47
Speaker 11: Dodger Katherine Burndorth, if it's medically determined that she had
38:51
Speaker 11: postpartum sat kosis. The symptoms of it are, you know,
38:55
Speaker 11: having delusions, hallucinations, confusions, beliefs that are out of touch
39:02
Speaker 11: with reality, and that can exist in a very circumscribed
39:07
Speaker 11: way inside what appears to be very normal behaviors, so
39:12
Speaker 11: you won't always see it. It comes and goes, it
39:16
Speaker 11: waxes and wanes, and that is why there's confusion. It's
39:20
Speaker 11: a tricky illness and we don't have enough education around
39:24
Speaker 11: it or training for it at places like the Motherhood
39:28
Speaker 11: Center or through PSI. We don't have enough discussion about
39:34
Speaker 11: it so that healthcare professionals can recognize it and swiftly
39:40
Speaker 11: and get people to the care they need. It's a
39:44
Speaker 11: very tricky illness. So it comes and goes, and it
39:48
Speaker 11: may appear that someone is doing okay, and simultaneously there
39:53
Speaker 11: is this almost let's say, absess within the brain that
39:58
Speaker 11: is psychiatric that is includes command auditory hallucinations, delusions, fixed
40:07
Speaker 11: false beliefs that what they are doing is right and
40:12
Speaker 11: has to happen for various non reality based reasons. So again,
40:19
Speaker 11: if it's medically determined that that Lindsay Clancy had postpartum psychosis,
40:26
Speaker 11: then her behavior is consistent with this illness.
40:31
Speaker 1: At this hour, Lindsay Clancy is in the fight of
40:34
Speaker 1: her life. She is in a court of law. She's
40:37
Speaker 1: being tried for the murders of her three children. Her
40:41
Speaker 1: husband was listed as both a defense witness and the
40:44
Speaker 1: state's witness. He was witness number one for the state.
40:48
Speaker 1: He has moved, remarried, and started a new life trying
40:54
Speaker 1: to get beyond the murders of his three children. And
40:59
Speaker 1: let me remind everyone that this defendant, Lindsay Clancy, and
41:04
Speaker 1: all defendants are innocent until proven guilty. Proven guilty with
41:13
Speaker 1: evidence that pierces the presumption of innocence and proves beyond
41:18
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt, the defendant is in fact guilty. So
41:22
Speaker 1: as we go to air tonight, Lindsey Clancy is presumed innocent.
41:28
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this
41:31
Speaker 1: case dial seven eight one nine three four five six
41:37
Speaker 1: five six seven eight one nine three four five six
41:41
Speaker 1: five six. We remember an American hero to take of
41:44
Speaker 1: Scott McKenna, NYCPD passed away in the line of duty,
41:48
Speaker 1: leaving behind a grieving wife, Danielle and son. Sean American
41:53
Speaker 1: hero detake of Scott McKenna. Thank you to all of
41:58
Speaker 1: our guests. I only wish I had more time to
42:01
Speaker 1: explore this with them, but thank you especially to you
42:05
Speaker 1: for being with us tonight. An'tsy grace signing off for tonight,
42:08
Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good
42:11
Speaker 1: night friend,