Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 43 - Does Xmas Remove Christ From Christmas?

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Ep. 43 - Does Xmas Remove Christ From Christmas? · Martyr's Row

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This week on Martyrs Row. Did the office resurrect
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Krampus? Did Chris Kringle punch a guy at the
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Council of Nicaea? Did Constantine send Santa
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to prison? Was the Home Alone script written
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by devout Catholics? Is Twitter the new Christ?
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Has Elon Musk taken Christ out of Xmas? Why does
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Elon love the letter X so much? I don't know,
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but we're gonna find out! This week on Martyrs
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Row! Three, two, one! Saint Ignatius, called
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Theophorus, bishop of Antioch and disciple of
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the apostles, was in the reign of Trajan, accused
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for confessing the name of Christ. Being brought
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before the emperor, he freely declared that the
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living God dwelt in him. Whereat, Trajan condemned
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him to be carried in chains to Rome, there to
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be cast to the beasts. Along the way, He strengthened
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the churches by his letters, desiring not deliverance,
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but that he might imitate the passion of his
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Lord. Let me be ground as wheat, he wrote, that
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I may be found the pure bread of Christ. At Rome,
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he was thrown to the lions, who swiftly consumed
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him, leaving only a few of his bones. Thus, this
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aged bishop, steadfast from Syria to the amphitheater
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testified that love is stronger than death, and
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counted no glory save to be united with his Savior.
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Anno Domini, 107. the Thanksgiving baguette.
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Yes. As many people join in as possible. It's
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awesome. Yeah. You know what's funny? I actually
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didn't know until recently that that was from
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a commercial. The WhatsApp thing. Yeah. I just
2:15
always did it when I was younger. OK. It was
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just always a thing. That makes sense. Yeah.
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I mean, my my kids are like not really old enough
2:23
to know references, but because they're in a
2:25
school where they're like in like preschool and
2:30
first grade. but there's 12th graders also in
2:33
the same school. It's like all the lingo of high
2:36
school trickles down all the way down into preschool.
2:40
So my kids will say stuff that I'm like, this
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is like a popular like middle school, high school
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thing that I'm like hearing about and then they
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know it. This is really weird. That's kind of
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bizarre. It is weird. I don't remember why I
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said that. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know
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the reference. The what's up. Oh, I was going
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to say, sorry. I was going to say, so like my
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oldest kind of gets it a little bit, some of
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it. But my youngest doesn't understand what he's
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doing at all. He's just repeating it. He's just
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repeating it. It's like one of those things where
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it's like that's you just kind of learn the rhythm
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of culture. Yeah. And you don't really know the
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origins of anything. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Which
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is interesting and you know it kind of cuz that
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was what that commercial was in the 90s, wasn't
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it? For sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely And so or
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everything that was way too long and very weird.
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Oh, that's very yeah, that's true. Yeah Yeah,
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like that commercial the original one is very
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long really Yeah, it's a little bit like, are
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they still doing this? This is still a commercial.
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Yeah. Yeah, it's like they extend it long enough
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so that the payoff really hits. Oh, that makes
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sense. So it's like a little bit too long so
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that the payoff punches harder, which is like
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you can't do that anymore because it wouldn't
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fit on - I'm not sticking around more than five
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seconds. Yeah. Then I get to skip it. It wouldn't
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fit on TikTok. Yeah. Yeah, you know what? That's
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interesting because that's back in the - You
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know the 90s and even think about like early
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2000s If I when I say this word, what do you
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think of if I say the word nostalgia nostalgia?
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Yeah death cab Yeah Yeah, I mean I think I immediately
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envision like old cars I've had mm -hmm and like
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times driving nowhere, yeah, and just like listening
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to bands like Death Gap. Yeah it's just like
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kind of like nice memories and yeah like I remember
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the good parts yeah nostalgia is the good parts
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yeah it's the parts with the sepia filter that's
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a good way to put that actually you know so I
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don't know if you know this I just learned this
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recently okay so nostalgia okay was originally
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I guess invented or like coined. Yeah. Back in
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the late 1600s. OK, that's pretty late. Yeah.
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And it was by a Swiss guy. Give it up for the
5:21
Swiss guys. Who was studying soldiers at the
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time. Are you a Swiss guy? Are you some kind
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of Swiss guy? Like some Swiss army guy? Well,
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he developed it for soldiers. For soldiers. Yeah.
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So he was studying them, and he found that, oh,
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they had this deep longing, like homesickness.
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OK. And he deemed it a mental illness. Oh, whoa.
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Yeah. Because it was detrimental to their ability
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to perform in war. Yeah, that makes sense. It
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was prohibiting them from doing what they needed
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to do. Yeah, so for a long time, I think up until
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the 19th century, it was considered a mental
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illness. Nostalgia? Yeah. But that's how he labeled
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it? Yeah. Okay, so longing for home. So can you
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imagine being diagnosed with nostalgia? Well,
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it does sound like a clinical issue. Now that
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you say that. You're like, hold on. I'm actually
6:16
getting checked out. It's not really good for
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you. If you're an extremely nostalgic person,
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you're kind of stuck in the past. You're always
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thinking about something else. If you use the
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word nostalgia on a regular basis, you probably
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have a room full of things from the 80s. Yeah.
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And that's... Probably not the healthiest thing.
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Maybe some things, right? It depends on what
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they are. That is interesting, though. So he
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coined the concept of homesickness as nostalgia.
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So longing for home or longing for, I guess,
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just not being at war. Correct me, because I
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think you know this. Because even the word breaks
7:02
down to home pain. I don't know this. Okay. As
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soon as you said the word breaks down, I immediately
7:11
thought Nosferatu. I don't know why. Free association.
7:18
You can do whatever you like. Because NOS. I
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was just like, I don't know. Yeah. What even
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is Nosferatu? Maybe it's homecoming, but it's
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like, this like, I have no clue. Just know the
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word. Yeah, it's free association. It makes me
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think of what's that? Will Ferrell movie with
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Ben Stiller where they're like models. Oh Owen
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Wilson You think it was you lander? Yes. Yeah,
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that's Owen Wilson that will fair. No it will
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ferrells in that. Oh, yeah, he is Will Ferrell
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and then Ben Stiller the movie and you're like,
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oh, are you talking about Owen Wilson? No a movie
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a movie title not a person's name Cuz I was like,
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I think it's Zoolander but that's a different
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guy Free association. Yeah, I don't know but
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it's like this Nostalgia, if I remember this
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right, it's basically like this pain of longing
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to go home, or pain of longing for something
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that was home. Okay, that makes sense. So it's
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like the past, someone feels at home there, it
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feels safe. And they feel a pain of like, I wanna
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go back there. And this guy's like, yeah, that's
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a mental illness. Here's some cocaine, I don't
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know. Probably. Some Swiss chocolate and a little
8:39
bit of cocaine. Here's a Toblerone. Going on
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a flight somewhere. And a Swiss army knife. Got
8:48
everything you need. Honestly. When's the last
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time you've been skiing? Here you go. Just pushes
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it out of the airplane. I want to go home. Well,
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it is kind of funny because there are certain
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times of the year where it feels like there's
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almost a cultural nostalgia. It's like, all of
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a sudden, the whole, like, everybody locks into
9:13
being childlike or... Yeah. You know what I mean?
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Well, I feel like Christmas kind of brings that
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out of people. It's like that Christmas magic
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that people talk about. It's like we think of
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the times when we were kids and it was, like,
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mysterious and exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because
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I often say this. We're all just trying to be
9:30
kids again. Yeah. And if you know anybody who's
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not trying to be a kid again, don't hang out
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with them anymore. But Christmas is that time.
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They'll sell your kidney on the black market.
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That's like the Santa Claus, the Tim Allen Santa
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Claus. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the whole
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thing about the parents, like his ex -wife and
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then, oh, what's the guy's name? Isn't it? It's
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like Ron or something. I think it's Todd, isn't
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it? No, it's not Todd. It's not? No. Because
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I thought I remember him joking when he was like,
10:01
Todd. No, it's like, it is something like that.
10:08
Honestly, his sweaters were awesome though. His
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sweaters were fantastic. I was so jealous of
10:12
his sweaters. That's gonna really bother me.
10:15
Anyways, the whole thing was like a weenie whistle
10:19
Like at the end. Oh, that's right. That was the
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one thing he wanted. Yeah, and he didn't get
10:24
it and that Christmas he stopped believing in
10:26
Santa. And it's like, oh, a weenie whistle. What
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is that guy's name? Isn't that the worst? I'm
10:36
not going to look it up. Eventually I'll remember.
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I'm trying to think of Tim Allen's name in the
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movie. Santa Claus. No, no, no. His government
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name. Oh, man. Now I'm going to... I can't think
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of anyone's name. The one line that always just
10:52
makes me just pause the movie, die laughing,
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is when the elf gives his son the snow globe.
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He's like, wow, thanks! And he's like, alright
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kid. Oh, he actually says that, doesn't he? Alright
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kid. That's like the head of the elves. He's
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kind of a jerk. He kind of is. But like endearing
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in a certain way. But in a good way. Man, what
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is that guy's name? And then Tim out, like they
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say his name over and over again. Yeah, I'm pretty
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sure it's like alliteration, isn't it? Yeah.
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Yeah. But oh well, if you think of it, tell us.
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Write it in the comments. Yeah, I'll figure it
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out right after this. Because I won't look this
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up. I want to just like sit here until I remember.
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But it'll be the next hour. We're not going to
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do that. Hold on. Hold on. Yeah. So to all those
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trying to be kids. You know be okay with cultural
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nostalgia. Yeah, and maybe the same time don't
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sit there too long Yeah, enjoy the moment. You're
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in yeah I think nostalgia is good as like it's
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a time like you're sitting down with a nice cup
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of tea and you're like That was a good time.
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Anyway, what am I doing right now? Yeah, so if
12:14
you're nostalgic for this podcast keep listening
12:16
yeah, there's more three two one Neil three two
12:21
one Snow drifts down on the Alpine Ridge Lanterns
12:37
flicker by the old stone bridge Shadows stretch
12:41
where the cold winds roll Mercy walks with a
12:46
monster in the snow Saint Nicholas with his staff
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of gold Grandpa's dragging chains through the
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biting cold. Gray Santa morning in the Saint
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parade. Light and shadow in the songs we've made.
13:12
Oh, holy night. Oh, fear and cheer. Heaven is
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nearer than it might appear. Star kings sway
13:36
in a tripling house Hopes as quiet as a midnight
13:41
mouse Say tomorrow with a knowing grin And the
13:46
winter bees that trails behind him Oh, oh, oh,
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oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
13:58
Say Nicholas with a star Pimp a strike and chase
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through the biting holes. Grace and warning in
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the same parade. Light and shadow in the songs
14:12
we've made. The sharpened grace in the world
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we draw So keep your lanterns burning bright
14:57
The saints and beasts, they roam tonight They
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roam tonight Saint Nicholas may stop I can chase
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through the biting cold, facing... Hey, Stephen.
16:05
We're eternally laughing on this show. I can't
16:07
help myself sometimes. And the funny thing is
16:10
everything. Yeah. And also, I think, you know,
16:14
most of it. Right. And most of it is not funny
16:17
to anyone else? No, no. But you kind of find
16:20
laughter in the small things. It's just part
16:21
of doing something with someone else. It's fun.
16:24
Doing things together. And you know, I get excited
16:26
for these main segments. We're happy together.
16:33
That's a good song. That is a great song. I do,
16:35
too. Yeah. It's the bulk of the podcast. It is,
16:38
so it better be good. Well. Or exciting for us.
16:41
This is where everyone falls asleep. Sorry, guys.
16:44
So, yeah. You know, Steven, I've been thinking.
16:47
OK. Which is a dangerous place for me to be.
16:49
But that's why we have a podcast. It's true.
16:52
And you think with your mouth. Yeah. There are
16:56
no thoughts of here. As per the last episode.
17:00
Everything thinks here. Yeah. Again, why we have
17:03
a podcast. Yeah, that's true. If for no other
17:06
purpose. So I can think. Yes. Welcome to the
17:10
think tank for Paul's brain. I need a microphone
17:15
just so I can get some thoughts through. Paul's
17:17
brain. That should be a segment. Paul's brain.
17:20
Just some time to think. They'll be like, what
17:24
the? There's a lot of pod, like, podcasters that
17:27
do that. Oh, yeah. Like. Bill Burr's Monday morning
17:30
thing. Dude, he's like a stream of consciousness.
17:32
Yeah, it's great. Yeah, or he's just clinically
17:37
insane. I feel like you have to be a little insane
17:40
to just talk to yourself for like an hour and
17:42
a half. Yeah, or like stand up on stage in front
17:45
of people. You have to be a little insane. That's
17:48
true. And that's fair. Especially because that's
17:50
like the number one worst fear for people is
17:52
public speaking. 100%. Yeah, and they're like,
17:54
what if I just do that for money? It's a way
17:56
to torture yourself. Yeah. I feel like they would
17:59
agree. I think so. Stand -up comedians? You do
18:02
kind of open yourself up to some torture. That's
18:04
true. Because I mean, you're like, they could
18:06
hate me. And some comedians intentionally bomb
18:09
just to get it back. Yes. Which, I can see that.
18:13
You kind of play the audience. Yeah, you give
18:15
yourself the yips. Yeah. Is that a real thing?
18:19
What? The yips. In golf? I just heard the word,
18:22
and I just keep thinking about it. It is. It's
18:25
a mental block. OK. So it's like, you're thinking
18:28
of too many things and like you keep thinking
18:32
that you're gonna make the mistake. So you think
18:36
of a way to not do it and then you do it. Oh,
18:39
interesting. Yeah. So it's like there's not a
18:42
way to get out of it. It's like this broken,
18:45
it's like just do it, it's insanity. It's doing
18:47
the same thing over and over again. Yeah. I'm
18:49
doing this wrong over and over again. And I'm
18:52
thinking I'm gonna do it right, but then I just
18:55
keep doing it wrong. That's really interesting.
18:57
Yeah Yeah, that's it's fascinating especially
19:00
I mean like sorry now. It's like it's around
19:03
Christmas time. It is around Christmas. Yeah,
19:06
and I think there's a lot of things when it comes
19:07
to Christmas where Especially Christians the
19:11
last Last like five years probably maybe even
19:14
more but at least in like my circle. They just
19:16
keep doing Christmas Yeah, it's just like it
19:18
just keeps coming every year. What if I just
19:21
did this Christmas thing? I have the Christmas
19:23
yips. It's like it's not gonna catch on But you
19:27
know, I feel like there's a lot of fear around
19:29
it sure or a lot of speculation Let me say it
19:32
that way. Okay Because there's a lot of a lot
19:36
of information being passed around like some
19:38
changes Yeah to certain certain traditions and
19:41
a lot of Christians get weary of it And they're
19:43
like oh should we even celebrate this thing or
19:45
should I even do this? Tradition or should I
19:47
should we say Merry Christmas, or should we say
19:50
something else? Yeah, because like the and we've
19:54
talked about this a lot in the sense of it feels
19:57
like there's a bunch of I Want to say grenades.
20:00
What are the things on the ground? Landmines?
20:03
Landmines. Yeah. It's like there's a lot of landmines
20:06
in what we've called like the mod norm. Yeah.
20:09
Like in the idea that there's oh this is what
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Christians have done for a long time or the idea
20:16
that like yeah Christians co -opted all of this
20:18
stuff. Yeah. When really like is I feel like
20:23
we need to start asking the question again like
20:25
is that true or is it not true? Yes, because
20:28
the things that we feel like are ancient are
20:30
actually only a couple hundred years old Actually,
20:33
I was talking to my brother recently. Yeah, and
20:35
he was talking about his new church that he's
20:36
going to okay. Shout out new church And he was
20:41
like, yeah, you know, they're very traditional.
20:42
I was like when you say traditional Do you mean
20:47
like medieval or like actual early church? He's
20:49
like, you know should be a jerk about it. Yeah,
20:51
but I was just curious I mean, but that's like
20:54
that's something you have to ask now. Yes Because
20:57
it is one of those things where denominations
20:59
are essentially falling apart. Right. And that's
21:02
not like a doomsday thing. Oh no. In some ways
21:04
it's a good thing. I think so. Like it's one
21:08
of those things where we're rethinking what we're
21:11
doing. Yeah. And the things that were bad about
21:14
the organizational structures will have to be
21:19
removed. And I wonder how much of that we have
21:21
to give credit for as much as we don't like to.
21:23
At least I don't like to. To like social media.
21:26
Because I think it opens you up to a lot of ideas.
21:29
Yeah, so like traditionally it's like if you're
21:31
a Baptist you only go to Baptist churches You
21:32
only hear Baptist things if you're Pentecostal
21:35
you only hear Pentecostal things. Yeah, but now
21:38
me when you said Pentecostal But then it's like
21:51
yeah, so because of social media you're exposed
21:53
to just you know here's a pastor, and he might
21:57
not be a Baptist, or he might not be whatever
21:59
your denomination is. Oh, right. So then you
22:01
start hearing other ideas. Yeah. And I wonder
22:05
if that's kind of a part of people like, wait
22:07
a second. Well, and in the post -seeker movement,
22:10
where like, basically everything that you're
22:13
getting marketed to, like everything that's being
22:15
marketed to you, is all intentionally trying
22:18
to look like whatever the most popular thing
22:20
is. Yeah. So like, the clips, like, clips from
22:24
churches and pastors and people preaching is
22:28
kind of like pop music. Like it's trying to follow
22:31
trends so that it's in the algorithm and so that
22:34
you click on it. And they're trying to like vie
22:38
for the, so then all of it ends up looking like
22:42
non -specific denominations. Or non -specific
22:45
traditions. So that in some ways it's a way to,
22:50
it's like, the next generation of the seeker
22:53
friendly, which would just be online, like church
22:56
online. So how do you just appeal to everybody
22:59
online? Oh, exactly. Yeah. And in some ways,
23:03
like in that way, there can be the element of
23:06
evangelism in it. But, you know, that's up to
23:10
the Lord. That's true. And in the same way, it's
23:13
like even when you talk about like, yeah, maybe
23:15
denomination should go away. It's not like it's
23:19
not like we're like, yeah. destroyed denominations
23:22
or people should actively go against it. It's
23:26
like, getting into an uproar about somebody saying
23:32
something like that is a little bit like, well,
23:35
do you think that God destroys things or allows
23:38
things to be destroyed or fall apart if they're
23:42
not producing good fruit? Yeah, because if you
23:45
don't believe that then I could see how people
23:48
do everything Yeah versus like actually the the
23:52
Lord's tired of that And so that denomination
23:55
is going to fall apart. Yeah, and that has nothing
23:58
to do with what anybody says on any internet
24:01
Yeah, or any internet. Yeah, how many internet
24:03
are there? Your internet my internet everyone's
24:09
internet there's some truth to that though, but
24:12
you know what I mean like if yes If it's not
24:15
producing good fruit and it is destroying people,
24:18
ultimately it's going to die. Yeah. It's like
24:22
a tree that doesn't produce fruits. Dying. Nice.
24:25
You know? Yeah, that's true. And so that gets
24:29
me thinking a little bit. Okay. Just a little
24:33
bit. Okay. Think with your words, Paul. Think
24:38
with your words, Paul. So let me take out my
24:41
hair. So this whole Christmas thing. Okay, what
24:46
about it? Yikes. We're doing this again? You
24:52
back on this? A little grinchy over here. I'm
24:58
gonna steal it. Okay, yeah. There's a popular
25:04
thing that I see often. Okay. Which is um instead
25:10
of the words the word christmas yeah i see something
25:14
that says xmas hmm and so my question to which
25:18
you refer you do you have some awareness of i
25:23
have seen this i too have witnessed i am a witness
25:28
also and so i guess i'm curious okay and so i'll
25:32
ask you the question okay does xmas remove Christ
25:40
from Christmas? Well Paul, I'm gonna have to
25:45
think about this one. Give yourself a little
25:47
chin scratch on that one. And I think I'm gonna
25:50
think about it in the only way I know how to.
25:58
Very good. And I'm gonna think about it in the
26:01
Pauline way of thinking. And I'm gonna use my
26:04
words. Very good. So, why don't we do this, in
26:09
the spirit of Christmas? Yes, yes. Why don't
26:11
I tell you a little story. So on a winter night,
26:16
when the sky is sharp as glass, and the stars
26:19
look like nailheads driven into velvet, you could
26:23
almost believe the old legends. That the heavens
26:26
aren't random. That there's a road up there,
26:29
a path of witnesses, a via martyrum, written
26:34
in light. And then you come down from the mountains
26:37
into the ordinary world and you see it on a receipt
26:41
or a banner or a storefront window. Merry Xmas.
26:46
And some part of you bristles because you've
26:48
heard the line, they took Christ out of Christmas.
26:53
But tonight, we're gonna do what martyrs row
26:56
does. We're going to clean off the soot of the
26:59
glass and look at what's actually there. because
27:05
the truth is stranger and better than the outrage.
27:10
The X wasn't invented by marketers. It wasn't
27:14
minted by modern cynicism. It's old. Christian
27:18
old. In the language of the earliest churches,
27:22
the language of scripture for Greek believers,
27:25
Christ is Christos. And it begins with a letter
27:29
that looks like our English X, Chai. So... From
27:34
very early on, Christians used X as shorthand
27:37
for Christ. Not because they were ashamed of
27:40
the name, but because they loved it enough to
27:43
carve it into stone, paint it on walls, scratch
27:46
it into wax, and set it into symbols that could
27:50
survive hostile rooms. Sometimes it wasn't just
27:54
the X. Sometimes it was XP. Not English letters,
27:59
but Greek. XP, chai and row. the first two letters
28:05
of Christos. A mark that says, without a sermon,
28:08
this belongs to Christ. And then history does
28:14
what it always does. It takes a symbol and drags
28:16
it into a turning point. In the early fourth
28:19
century, Constantine goes to war and the sources
28:22
tell us that a sign, a Christ sign, was placed
28:26
onto military gear. Some say shields, some say
28:31
the standard carried before the army. Whatever
28:35
you make of Constantine, and if you've listened
28:37
to Martyrs Row, I think you know how we feel,
28:40
the moment is unforgettable. A world where the
28:44
name of Jesus had been whispered in catacombs
28:47
and confessed in courtrooms is suddenly painted
28:50
in public, stamped in metal, carried into battle.
28:53
Two letters, a cross -like shape. A monogram.
28:57
XP. Christ. So when you see XP, that's not a
29:03
Microsoft logo, that's not modern shorthand,
29:06
that's the ancient confession compressed. Now,
29:11
bring it back to Christmas. When scribes wrote
29:14
Christ quickly, especially in context influenced
29:19
by Greek culture, they used abbreviations. It's
29:23
the same impulse as writing DR for doctor or
29:26
ST for saint. Not disrespect, just shorthand.
29:30
So X for Christ isn't new, it's a relic of the
29:34
church's long memory. And over time, in English,
29:38
it becomes one of those abbreviations that slips
29:41
into everyday writing. X -mas. Not Christ removed,
29:46
but Christ abbreviated. So then, should Christians
29:50
use it? Here's the martyr's row answer. Truth
29:53
first, love second. Truth. Xmas can literally
30:00
mean Christmas, or Christ Mass, using the ancient
30:05
shorthand for Christ. The love part? Your neighbor
30:09
might not know that, and if it distracts them,
30:12
don't make your shorthand their stumbling block.
30:16
If you're writing a devotional note to someone
30:18
tender -hearted, write Christmas. Let the word
30:21
breathe. If you're sending a quick text or titling
30:25
an episode or Keeping a headline short, Xmas
30:28
isn't heresy, it's history. Because sometimes
30:32
the faith isn't lost in the letters. Sometimes
30:35
it's hidden there, like a watermark, waiting
30:38
for the light. So the next time you see Xmas,
30:41
don't scoff, but remember, those who came before
30:45
you and gave their lives for the sake of Christus.
30:50
XP. Merry Christmas. Does that make sense, Paul?
30:59
That makes a lot of sense. I think that gets
31:01
all my thoughts out. That's good. No, that's
31:06
really good. I'm also always tempted to quote,
31:10
which I've heard recently, which this is kind
31:14
of a fascinating thing, and I didn't think I
31:17
was going to talk about this, but I wanted it
31:20
in my thoughts, but I went ahead and censored
31:22
them. Because I will not censor them now and
31:26
I I needed to Give a little bit of setup before
31:30
I I said unfiltered words Mary Exmus because
31:38
To some people that would be the most vulgar
31:43
thing you could say I Think it's the funniest
31:48
thing you look into the camera and say that Mary
31:50
Exmus you filthy animal But I actually heard
31:57
this the other day that the original writers
32:00
of the movie Home Alone were devout Catholics.
32:04
Really? And there's a pastor online, I love a
32:09
lot of the content that he does, but he goes
32:14
through and breaks down how that Home Alone is
32:18
a... Prodigal son story. It's very Christian
32:21
based the one thing that I need to go back and
32:24
I've actually already watched Home Alone in the
32:27
last couple of weeks Okay, I need to watch it
32:29
again watch it again. Yeah, but the thing that
32:31
I didn't realize is that the The the old guy.
32:35
Yeah, the South Bend shovel slayer I forget what
32:41
his name is. It's actually I think it's from
32:43
his name is from The like the what's the Scrooge
32:51
didn't I just ask you this even easier? Yeah.
32:54
Yeah, no, it's not Ebenezer though. It's something
32:56
like from that story. Okay, but anyways Apparently
33:01
that guy the whole time in the movie has Scars
33:06
in his hands. Really? Yeah, like I've never noticed
33:09
that I haven't either they go all the way through
33:11
his hands That's very interesting. Yeah, it's
33:15
really weird That's really interesting, because
33:17
I did pick up, at least in the last few years
33:20
that I've seen it, that he was supposed to be
33:23
playing a Christ -like figure. Yeah, he is. Because
33:26
he talks about he hasn't talked to his son in
33:29
a while. There's that story there, but that's
33:33
not what we're talking about. No. It is one of
33:35
my favorite Christmas movies, though. But I do
33:38
find it interesting with the whole Xmas Christmas
33:40
thing, where it leads to non - like, arrogant
33:46
non -Christians to use it because it outrages
33:50
Christians. But they don't use it because they
33:53
know the real history behind it. They use it
33:54
because it makes Christians mad. And Christians
33:57
are mad because they don't know their own history.
33:59
Right. Exactly. Yeah. So it's funny. It's like
34:01
it all kind of comes down to the fact of like,
34:03
oh, we're not good stewards and studyors of history.
34:06
Well, and that's the whole point of our podcast.
34:08
Yeah, absolutely. And that is one of those things
34:11
where you look at it and you go, all right, well,
34:13
the Constantinian symbol that he creates and
34:17
puts on the shield that he had a vision of, which
34:20
is like 300 AD in that middle range, 300 to 400
34:25
AD. that symbol is like on top of Catholic churches.
34:31
It's used in Lutheran churches. Like it's a seal
34:34
that you see often. Cause I see the XP a lot.
34:37
Yeah. Yeah. It's like the X and then the P is
34:39
in the middle. Yes. Um, which is an entry. It's
34:42
a cool like symbol. It looks cool. It reminds,
34:45
it looks like, like anytime I see it, I think
34:48
more, uh, like Spanish, like Spaniard, Spain.
34:52
Yeah. Um, because it reminds me of like conquistadors
34:56
or or like uh what uh the knight's templar oh
35:01
yeah which that would have been a symbol for
35:03
the knight's templar that make that makes sense
35:05
or one of their symbols which would just be yeah
35:08
is it is it chai chai and then row r -h -o yeah
35:15
so c -h -i and then r -h -o um yeah xp so christos
35:23
That's pretty cool. It is cool. That's so cool.
35:25
Yeah, and I think that's one of the things is
35:27
like if someone's like Mary Exmus Like it's it's
35:32
kind of cool. It feels deeper in that meaning
35:36
if you actually know what it means Yes, I don't
35:39
know Yeah, no, I think so but there's a lot of
35:42
origins like that in in particularly around the
35:45
larger holidays where it's like It's not even
35:49
like a we need to take it back is we just need
35:51
to understand what it is remember it Yeah, we
35:53
just have to remember what our history is like
35:55
we need to go back in and we need to we need
35:57
to go like all right well if someone's like Well,
36:00
don't put any Christmas trees up in your house,
36:02
so we're like don't do it and you're like which
36:04
I actually have that verse the Yeah, like what
36:09
are all the because we've talked about like your
36:11
funny traditions and things like that. Yeah,
36:13
but But with Christmas, there's like a bunch
36:16
of things that people are like, well this is
36:18
pagan, this is pagan, this is pagan. But if you
36:21
actually go back in and look, there's way more
36:24
record that dates and usage of things were adopted
36:31
or overlapped to compete with Christians. Like
36:36
the December 25th date. There's a lot around
36:39
that date. Well also, it's actually not competing.
36:44
What do you mean? Oh, yeah, cuz it's on a different
36:46
day. Yeah, it's not even the same day Oh, that's
36:48
right. So, I mean that's how the people wanted
36:50
to talk about this it's like there's a lot of
36:52
things that people go to you of Like oh, it's
36:55
just stealing the day the celebration of like
36:57
Saturnalia Saturnalia or stealing. There's another
37:00
couple I can't think of my head like Mithra and
37:04
Osiris and all this and there's like there's
37:06
those celebrations and they represent the same
37:08
Christ like figure it's like well actually if
37:11
you look through I mean, this is a good tip for
37:16
anyone just studying anything. It's like if someone
37:19
makes a claim, look at what their sources are.
37:22
And then look at what that source is. And then
37:25
find that source. Like a long time deep in a
37:30
couple years ago into like the Christmas cuz
37:32
I was like I Like for me, honestly, I was like
37:35
kind of at appointments like should I even celebrate
37:37
Christmas? Yeah, I get it because there was just
37:40
bombarding of like it's all pagan. It's all this
37:42
It's like yeah, let's actually find out right
37:44
and in all of my research the people that claimed
37:47
it was pagan Their sources were some other guy
37:51
who was sourcing some other guy who was sourcing
37:53
some other guy who just made it up Well, that's
37:56
the whole yeah That's even the whole and at some
37:58
point we'll get into this but Yes, there's no
38:01
ancient documentation for any of this. You just
38:04
thought about it one day. Yeah, it's like the
38:05
Saturnalia thing to say that Historically that
38:09
celebration was December 17th. Oh That's right.
38:13
It ends on it at one point the 23rd. I think
38:17
okay Oh, maybe it is 24th. It ends before Christmas
38:20
because it became like over time. It became like
38:23
a week -long celebration. Yeah but even in that
38:26
it's like it was actually a pretty horrible celebration
38:30
and it was in it was celebrating it like there's
38:32
no rules in rule like rules are reversed oh don't
38:36
they still celebrate it i'm not sure about that
38:39
what's the is it is it Krampus what's the one
38:41
that they celebrate they do celebrate Krampus
38:43
we can talk about that Krampus is wild because
38:46
that's another one where it's like there's actually
38:47
nothing pagan about that at all either But if
38:51
you look at the full story of it doesn't Krampus
38:53
kind of look like Pan Yeah, I think so. Okay.
38:59
Yeah, so that's pagan. Well, yeah, but it's like
39:01
the original feeling like the celebration of
39:03
it Yeah, it's actually not pagan at all. It's
39:05
kind of a similar story of like what we're talking
39:07
about with like our Halloween talk Yeah, and
39:11
it's it's that same idea of because they do this
39:13
in Germany In a lot of a lot of like Eastern
39:17
European countries that celebrate it And it's
39:21
the same thing of like this recognition of, so
39:23
they'll have a parade. And there's like the Knight
39:26
of Krampus. So he'll come out and he's like this
39:29
disgusting horrible demon looking creature. And
39:32
he'll walk in like people are standing outside
39:34
this parade as he walks by and he'll like, you
39:36
know whip people Oh, it's crazy and so like people
39:41
like oh push him they're bad and he'll be like
39:44
Yeah, and then he'll like take kids and like
39:46
put him in this in this cage I don't know if
39:48
they still do that to this day. Okay But what
39:51
happens is it ends with I think it's the next
39:54
day because it's a it's a multi -day celebration
39:56
got it It then comes with st. Nicholas or Santa
40:00
Claus. Yeah traditionally, not what we celebrate
40:03
in the U .S. today, which that's a whole thing
40:06
of how that evolved over time. Sure. Oh, of course,
40:09
yeah. Because what it was isn't what it is. Right.
40:13
And that's a big distinction to make. Yeah. But
40:16
it comes out with Saint Nicholas coming and defeating
40:18
Krampus and releasing the children. OK. And so
40:22
it's this idea of it's the same thing of, oh,
40:25
the saints came and overcame the demons that
40:28
were occupying this and terrorizing the people.
40:30
Okay, so it's a Christ story. Yeah, absolutely
40:33
And it's like cool and so I know I think it was
40:36
last year it became kind of a big thing wrote
40:38
a lot of Americans all of a sudden just learned
40:41
about Krampus and they're like, oh he's this
40:44
They're all worshiping the devil and it's like
40:46
actually no, he's not celebrated. I mean there
40:49
was a resurgence of the office mmm, and Dwight
40:53
famously. Oh, that's right teaches the kids the
40:56
story of Krampus It's like all the like there's
41:00
an office party and all the kids are invited
41:02
or something from the people in the office and
41:05
then he sits down and like teach them and then
41:07
he's like whipping somebody with the Yeah, but
41:11
yeah, it's that it's that story when we look
41:13
at the full thing of like what is it actually
41:15
all about? Yeah, and it's like it's actually
41:17
about the defeating of Krampus and the liberation
41:20
of people into Christ Yeah, it's like grumpy
41:23
Christ. Yeah Krampus Grumpy Christos. And we
41:30
can do the same. We can talk about that even
41:31
like the Christmas tree. Well, so Jeremiah 10.
41:34
Yeah. Verse two. Have you read this? At one point.
41:38
Okay. Not recently. Have you ever read Jeremiah,
41:41
Paul? It's nice that that's something to laugh
41:45
about. There are people that have not read Jeremiah.
41:48
That is true. Yeah. For those we weep. And mourn.
41:52
Please read Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah or you love
41:56
Krampus. But it has stuff like this in it. Jeremiah
42:00
10 verse 2, thus says the Lord, learn not the
42:03
way of the nations nor be dismayed at the signs
42:06
of the heavens because the nations are dismayed
42:08
at them for the customs of the peoples are vanity.
42:12
A tree from the forest is cut down and worked
42:14
with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They
42:18
decorate it with silver and gold. They fasten
42:20
it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.
42:23
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber
42:26
field and they cannot speak. They have to be
42:32
carried for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid
42:34
of them for they cannot do evil. Neither is it
42:37
good. Neither it is in them to do good. I can't
42:41
read tonight. Neither is it in them to do good.
42:46
So it's like All right, well they cut down trees
42:49
by the hands of a craftsman, they decorate it
42:52
with silver and gold and they fasten it with
42:54
hammer and nails so that it cannot move. That
42:57
sounds like a Christmas tree to me. But to be
43:01
fair, I don't think I've ever put a Christmas
43:05
tree up from the attic and fastened it with nails
43:09
and put actual silver and gold on it. And then
43:12
asked a demon to possess it. Good But I mean
43:19
that's what the idols would be those physical
43:21
representations that you invite a spirit into
43:23
Yeah, so it's like Jeremiah says don't do that.
43:27
Absolutely don't do that or don't be like them
43:29
But also he's framing it in a way that's like
43:31
this is vanity meaning. Yeah nonsense. It's it's
43:35
not it's nothing. Mm -hmm Bless you Oh, that
43:42
was a weird town. Bless you, X2. Sneezes never
43:46
come in ones. No, they always come in pairs.
43:49
Or it hurts. That's a whole other thing. Maybe
43:54
it's not. I don't know. But it is interesting
43:57
because even in that passage, the context is
43:59
like what they're doing is nonsense. It doesn't
44:02
result in anything except for negative things
44:05
for them. Yeah, for sure. So then like the vanity
44:09
of the Christmas tree. Trees are pretty prevalent
44:14
in the Bible. Yeah. Particularly in reference
44:17
to Christ. I mean, trees are kind of prevalent
44:19
just throughout history. But we see that especially
44:23
in the scripture with Christ. Yeah. Human history
44:26
on the earth. There's a lot of trees. That's
44:28
fair. There's a lot of trees. But that's an interesting
44:32
one even with that. It's like with the tree.
44:36
Because there are a lot of people. The biggest
44:38
argument that I've heard is like, oh, it's like
44:40
an ash or a pole and they used to decorate them
44:43
and all this and then it's like well actually
44:46
pause yeah there's no historical record that
44:48
says they ever decorated them no but they would
44:50
also have to like take all the branches off yeah
44:53
so not that so no and so like the and that type
44:59
of tree probably not the best no so yeah not
45:03
the best wood for that not quite yeah yeah and
45:07
so like historically and this is Based on the
45:11
story, it seems more legend than it is anything,
45:13
to be fair. But this is the most accurate story
45:19
that I've seen. And there is actual tax records
45:24
of this, an historical record of this actually
45:27
being a thing that spawned for this purpose.
45:30
And so it actually goes back to Martin Luther,
45:34
as the story goes. Is that one day he was out
45:38
walking in the forest and he looked up and he
45:42
noticed how the fir trees, the palm tree, pine
45:47
trees, palm trees, I'm gonna flutter too long.
45:49
Yes, F -U -R. How they pointed up toward the
45:53
sky and he's like, oh, it's like they're pointing
45:56
up toward Christ. To the heavens, yeah. To the
45:58
heavens. That's cool. And so that's kind of what
46:01
then led to... kind of getting popularized over
46:05
time, especially with more royalty doing that.
46:09
Let's cut this down, put a star at the top, and
46:12
decorate the tree as a way to point toward the
46:14
star, point toward Christ or to the heavens.
46:17
And so that's the idea of why is there a star
46:18
on the top of the tree? Because it points toward
46:20
the heavens where Christ is. Yeah, the bright
46:23
and morning star. Yes, absolutely. The Lucifer.
46:26
See our previous work. But it's like, oh, that's
46:31
the idea. That's where it comes from. Also, if
46:32
you kind of think about it, the shape of a Christmas
46:34
tree is very ziggurat -esque. Then you throw
46:41
a whole new thing into it. Very mountainous.
46:43
Very mountain, yeah. Also, a fir tree would be
46:45
on a mountain. That's true. So kind of interesting.
46:48
Yeah. And so the idea of a Christmas tree being
46:51
used for that purpose originated in Germany.
46:54
Makes sense. Around that time. A lot of Christian
46:59
tradition and theology comes from Germany. Yes,
47:03
yeah. Like a lot of it. Yeah, it's true. Especially
47:06
in the modern sense. The stuff that was kind
47:09
of filtered post -medieval. Yeah, yeah. Like
47:13
medieval, we get a lot more of that through like
47:16
England or European countries. Yeah. The European
47:20
thing. Which would make sense. They did a lot.
47:21
Oh, actually, here's an interesting thing. Going
47:23
back to the date, the 25th. They did stuff so
47:26
bad, America was born. That's good Europeans
47:32
they did stuff so bad America was born That's
47:37
a t -shirt. That's actually pretty good. Yeah,
47:38
I like that. That's good. We could print that
47:41
on a flag Raise that flag high On top of the
47:46
tree. That's our way. On top of the tree. On
47:49
top of the tree Yeah, that's funny. Oh, so the
47:53
25th. Oh, that's right. I forgot to bring this
47:55
up Yeah, wrap that up. This is an interesting
47:58
Peace with that. Put a little bow on top. So
48:03
it's like, okay, so how do we get that day? So
48:07
in the early church, there was a belief that
48:11
prophets died the same day they were born. Oh,
48:14
that's right. Okay, yeah. Wait, hold on. Yes.
48:17
Yes. But it's specifically royal people. It wasn't
48:21
the same day they were born, but it was within
48:22
a certain time frame. No, is that right? It's
48:28
the same day not necessarily the same like month.
48:31
That's right. Yes. That's right. Thank you Yeah,
48:33
yeah, so what they did was they looked at Well,
48:38
we know when he died, right and it's like let's
48:40
go nine months before that Yes, and that's when
48:43
they found December 25th, right? So they're like,
48:46
oh, that's probably when he was born then based
48:48
on that belief, right? And so that's That's one
48:51
of the main ideas that we get, because we actually
48:53
don't fully know, but that's just the most popular
48:56
thought of where it came from. So we don't actually
49:00
know exactly why they picked that day. We do
49:02
know that was a popular belief at the time. And
49:05
so it was like, oh, that's probably where they
49:07
got the idea from. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, it was
49:10
like anybody by royal birth. Would have they
49:15
had a belief that that individual in the records
49:17
they would write them as being born on the same
49:19
day So the same yeah, so then it would be like
49:22
September 25th is when they would have thought
49:25
him to have died Yeah, or recorded him to have
49:28
died. Yeah, so then gone back nine months from
49:30
that Yeah, and that's where we find December.
49:33
Yeah. Yeah, so like it so in reality Everything
49:37
that we celebrate as Christian holidays Go back
49:43
pre what you think is traditional and go back
49:47
to more ancient culture and you'll see that most
49:49
of that stuff actually did originate with Christians
49:52
and is why Christians still believe and celebrate
49:55
it. Like if you really want to look at like is
49:58
this pagan or not, look at the church liturgy.
50:02
Like go back in... and look at like an Anglican
50:05
or Orthodox or a Catholic church and look at
50:08
what their liturgy is, and that will speak to
50:11
like, okay, this tradition, Christians have been
50:15
observing it in the liturgy of the church, in
50:18
the rhythm of the church service for more than
50:21
a thousand years, more than 1 ,500 years in some
50:24
cases. So then when you look at that, it's like,
50:27
all right, well, that's been preserved through
50:29
the liturgy of the church itself. Yeah. And in
50:33
that way, maybe I should pay more attention to
50:36
that than some guy on TikTok being like, everything's
50:39
pagan. Yeah. Where are you getting that from?
50:43
Well, but also it goes back to what we talked
50:44
about all the time is like, if there's anything,
50:47
anything that is good, there is a deception of
50:50
or a bad version of. Yeah. Like there just is.
50:54
So like the enemy, like that's just anything
50:57
that was created to celebrate Christ is going
51:01
to be, it will be tried to be co -opted and painted
51:06
as pagan. It just will be. So double check next
51:11
time. Take a look. I mean that's even, it's funny,
51:14
it's like even with the Santa Claus thing. Where
51:18
it's like, oh, originally it originates with
51:20
St. Nicholas. Yeah. And then... Who is like a
51:22
really powerful figure. He what? He's a very
51:25
interesting person. We actually don't know a
51:26
lot about him. We do know a couple of things
51:28
and there's some kind of like bizarre legendary
51:33
stories about him. Doesn't he like slap a guy?
51:36
Oh, yeah. So the story goes, he specifically
51:39
went to the Council of NYC to punch... some guy
51:42
in the face because he was a known heretic. Yeah,
51:44
yeah, yeah. So like the legend goes that's why
51:47
he went to the council of Nicaea. Yeah, so Saint
51:50
Nicholas goes to the council of Nicaea and I
51:53
think it was recorded that he punched the guy.
51:57
Because he was a heretic or believed to be. What
52:01
was the heresy? I forget. I feel like I just
52:03
heard this. I can't think of it. It was a popular
52:06
heresy at the time. Probably the main one that
52:10
they were trying to fight again. Yeah But like
52:13
a little backstory and him he his parents were
52:16
very wealthy and they died when he was young
52:18
Yeah, and so he was given obviously the entire
52:21
inheritance, but instead of keeping the money.
52:23
He actually donated all of it. Yeah but it was
52:28
one of those where because he was such a Controversial
52:34
figure to some and because he kind of just spoke
52:36
his mind often They didn't want to actually make
52:40
him a bishop. But because he was so popular and
52:43
had done so many good things, they're like, we
52:46
have to make him a bishop. Yeah, he's the man.
52:49
Yeah, he's the guy. Well, and he often would
52:51
just give stuff away. He was extremely generous.
52:54
Yeah. And then they followed in his tradition
52:57
in that way. I wish I could find that guy. Well,
53:00
so it's interesting. So his popularity got so
53:03
big, and so people would start to basically attach
53:06
him to this. Especially with you know the whole
53:09
Krampus thing. Yeah, and Martin Luther was actually
53:13
one where he's like I feel like we're putting
53:14
too much emphasis on this st. Nicholas guy Yeah,
53:18
and he's like we need to focus on focus on the
53:21
Christ child And I believe the word was the Christ
53:26
Kindle Okay Which is interesting because then
53:30
what happens is that those ideas start to become
53:33
unpopular and people just don't celebrate them
53:36
anymore until, I think it's the 1800s, where
53:39
we get Twas the Night Before Christmas, which
53:43
was the repopularization and reimagining of this
53:48
Saint Nicholas character. That's cool. Based
53:50
on all of these stories. Yeah. And it's like,
53:53
oh, let's make this popular again. Let's tell
53:55
a story, include this character, but reimagined.
53:59
That's cool. And what's funny, kind of ironic,
54:02
is one of Saint... Santa Claus's nicknames is
54:06
Chris Kringle. Oh, yeah, which is a derivative
54:09
of what Martin Luther is trying to focus on of
54:11
the Christ child. Oh, yeah And so it's kind of
54:15
funny where it's like Oh one of Santa Claus's
54:18
nicknames is actually Christ child something
54:20
that was supposed to point away from Martin Luther
54:24
tried there Didn't quite work out. Yeah, so so
54:28
not in history books, but in in later stories
54:34
centuries after Nicaea claimed that when Arius
54:37
stood up and denied that Jesus was fully God,
54:40
Nicholas became so enraged that he slapped or
54:43
punched him across the face. Constantine allegedly
54:47
stripped Nicholas of his bishop's robes and imprisoned
54:51
him for breaking decorum at the council. But
54:54
that night, the Virgin Mary and Christ appeared
54:56
to Nicholas in his cell, restoring his vestments.
55:00
When Constantine heard, he freed him and reinstated
55:03
him as Bishop of Myra. That's wild. It's pretty
55:07
wild. Especially, like, basically Santa Claus
55:11
is around during Constantine. Yeah. And Constantine
55:14
does what Constantine does. He throws him in
55:16
jail. Come on, Constantine. Constantine ruined
55:19
everything. Yeah, he did. But he honored the
55:25
decision of... apparently Mary and Jesus showed
55:28
up. Wish, I mean, I'd hope so. Yeah, because
55:32
Jesus can't do anything without Mary. Yeah. He
55:35
has to listen to his mother. Yes, mother. Listen
55:37
to your mother, children. Come on. So I would
55:41
say leaving, if you are, let me put it this way.
55:45
Yeah. If you're a known Christian, Take the English
55:51
word Christ out sleep with one eye open and say
55:55
and say Xmas because people will be like how
55:58
dare you and then you could be like well actually
56:00
XP and you can go to this whole history you be
56:04
that person and you go well X is actually the
56:06
first letter in the Greek word Christos and it
56:09
was a tradition for people to carve that into
56:13
the wall where Christ belonged here is what they
56:16
would how they would use that yeah, if you see
56:19
that symbol So if you see that X and the P, it's
56:23
the first two letters of Christos in Greek. So
56:25
now you know. Yeah, it's not the new name for
56:29
Twitter. It's not. That should be the whole thing.
56:35
Is Elon Musk trying to be the new Christ? He
56:44
does love the letter X. Well, X marks the spot.
56:50
That's so true. Merry Xmas, you filthy animal.
56:53
Three, two, one.