Latest / A Matter of Faith: A Presby Podcast / Episode 15: "Man of Faith", Millennial Dilemma & Vegan or No?

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Episode 15: "Man of Faith", Millennial Dilemma & Vegan or No? · A Matter of Faith: A Presby Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to a matter of faith, a Frisbee podcast, the podcast, where we respond to your questions and comments on issues of faith, social justice, and church life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to write in and ask your question because if it matters to you, it matters to us.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And it just might be a matter of faith,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Whether it be faith in God, faith in others, or faith in yourself, we are brought to you by the Presbyterian peacemaking program and Unbound, the interactive journal on Christian social justice for the Presbyterian church USA.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I am your host Lee Cato,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm your host Simon dune
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Without further ado, let's dive into today's questions.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Well, hello everyone.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And welcome to the podcast.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Episode four today, Lee, it's good to see you.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I'm doing it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: This is episode 15, which is hard to,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: That is hard to believe.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And you know, it would be even more difficult to believe Lee, what was that is if we could get people to give us some subscriptions and reviews.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: That'd be wonderful.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: To just give us some reviews, hopefully five stars and you don't even really have to agree with us, you know, just, just, just give us five.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm positive.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I'm positive that it's worth it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: It's, it's worth it.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: And it does, it really does help us bring content and it helps with all the algorithms and everything like that when it comes to podcasts search.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that'd be great.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: We'll ask you at least 15 people to give us some reviews and subscribe
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, what's going to earn those subscriptions Lee as well.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: We get these great questions like today's question, which is, what do you think it means to be a man of faith in today's world?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: What do you think Lee?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: A man of faith, very loaded, but we hear it a lot.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: You know, you hear it a lot in family rhetoric, like, oh, I'm a man of faith.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, a lot of times this goes with, you know, head of the household, you know, there, it infers a lot, uh, when we say man of faith and it is used and a lot of fate circles and a lot of, a lot of things that deal with church.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: But, but I also think that it does, and you know, me Simon, I'm going to be a little, I'm going to be a little critical about this, which I think we should wait, where are we talking about what it means to be a man of faith?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Because I do think in some ways that term has been a way to instill a lot of heteronormative, a lot of patriarchy within the church, because, and in history and church history, it has been men who have wielded the power where as there were so many different types of people in leadership or with a lot of voices, but the man found ways to kind of centralize the power and centralize the voice on themselves.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And, and I do think when we're talking about this, this rhetoric, um, a lot of toxic masculinity comes up.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it does for you Simon, but I do think in the realm of faith.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: It, it instills a lot of toxic masculinity and toxic things.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Do you think?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I think that when you, when the term man of faith is used, in some ways it's supposed to imply sort of a, like a higher, like a higher standard, but it only really means a higher standard.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: If it also isn't subjected to all of those things that you just described.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Lee.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And if I was going to list a couple of characteristics about what it means to be a, a man of faith, I actually want to walk us back and say, what does it mean to be a person of faith?
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And then what does it mean to be a person of faith who then identifies or lives walks this earth as, as a male, as a man and walks with the pro and may walk with the privilege that comes with that?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Um, because that's a real question for, for people to ask.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Um, I think it definitely would mean you'll listen, you'll listen to you, listen to you, listen to people.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: You listen to your, your partner.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: You listen to people who are oppressed and marginalized in society.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: And because of the way society is already structured in patriarchaly generally, it also means recognizing, uh, how to use your voice and your privilege to create opportunities and to lift up others who maybe are not heard.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: And also knowing when to be quiet and going back to listening.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: And maybe sometimes the best thing to do is actually just to stand alongside folks in solidarity or give others the mic.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's not, it's not always a place where you have to talk.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Um, similarly, don't mansplain.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Let's not mansplain.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I know that we're all guilty of it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: And for anyone who may not be familiar with the term mansplain mansplain is when someone says something often a woman or someone who identifies as, as a female, they say something, and then you feel the need to say exactly the same thing in order for it to be valid or real, or to be taken seriously.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Or you just assume that something, someone has said a woman will not understand what it means so that you just feel the need to explain it to them.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: We don't need to do that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: We can, we can get rid of that.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Mansplaining to the man out there.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Are we are mansplaining to the band right now?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Um, and I think just the, you know, the last couple of things is to be willing to be vulnerable and show emotion.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone remembers this or not, but Jesus was, Jesus was a man and he showed a lot of emotion and he was very vulnerable at times.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And he, he cried, he wept.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And yet in society, we have this idea that we can't cry and we can't weep.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: We can't show this vulnerability and be humble.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I think humility is something that is also easy to overlook and gets overlooked because of pride.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Um, and I think there's going to be said about it being humble.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up Jesus because there are times in scripture where, I mean, Jesus has, masculinity is a little as, is a blurry line too.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of theologians out there.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of liberation.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Theology is out there that do kind of describe Jesus in ways that are, were not considered or are not kind of framed in a very light quote masculine way.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: And I do also think that, and in some instances and scripture, and I'm going to mention something, I'm going to mention a scripture that has been often controversial, but it is also, this is not a new theological explanation.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: If we're going to talk about Jesus and what man can learn or, or what the Bible can teach us about that, there's two stories.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: One is in mark, the Syrophoenician woman and the other one is in Matthew, the Canaanite woman.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: And I do think that there are instances in these two stories where Jesus is confronted, uh, with his massage, Annie is confronted with the systems that were around him and are still around him, uh, still around us at the time systems of racism mainly.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And I, and I think that in that instances, in that story is that there was self-reflection and there was a humanity and Jesus that really showed like a chance to reform or Presbyterian.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: And it's a way to look at oneself and take a step back and say, hold on, I did call you a dog.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And I, that is not why I'm here.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I lost for a second.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: The reason why I'm here.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And then, and then the scheme of that story, Jesus expands the ministry Jesus's ministry was expanded because of that realization of that kind of accountability.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: And when I think of man of faith, I do think, I do think in some ways there that that toxic masculinity and that patriarchal system in steals a reactivity, there's not a space to kind of step back and kind of reevaluate because of that power dynamic that men have had.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And we'll be honest.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, Simon and I are two people who identify as male.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: We are assists, man, even though I identify as a person, I'm still a man.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And I still identify as that.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: And I still give into patriarchal Cole heteronormative systems.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: And I do think that's something to be, uh, to realize as well.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And, but there are moments in our scripture and there are people in scripture that are lifted up women, uh, Unix and scripture that have spread the gospel that didn't get a gospel named after them.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Like that is the, that is what I hope we can think about when we hear this rhetoric, because it does happen a lot.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And, and we hear it a lot in, in government kind of like, oh, he's a man of faith.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And, and there are often times where that label, that label puts on you, something that, um, that sometimes questions, what exactly is that faith?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Um, who do you have faith in?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Who do you worship, but do you worship?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: And so that's all good questions to ask, and we're not like saying to you, if you identify as a man that you know, this is, um, because we, we, we too are telling you from two men to the men out there that we also have to do our work in this.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: We have, we are the main ones that have to do our work most of the time.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And I think as part of that work, like you were saying, it requires some reflection, some intentionality and some thought, and I think it also requires men to give themselves the grace to recognize they're also not always going to get it right.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they will just, they will just end up playing into very patriarchal mansplaining things and being willing to call themselves out on it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean like, make a big deal about it per se, but just recognize and have some of that personal accountability and also recognize that if someone else does call you out on it, apologize, I meant you were wrong and be better.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Do better.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And this is, I mean, and coming from two people that take up space in the podcast world, but I do think is an important, and this happened like a couple of weeks ago, I was watching a virtual worship and the guy and somebody had asked the preacher just to kind of do a benediction.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And he took up a lot of space.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: It went on and on.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And it just so happened that there was someone who identified as female preaching and leading worship and things like that.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: And though that might not have been intentional.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: That is the default.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And so to think about that, how much space we take up, how much yeah.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: How, how, how much, uh, space we consume, uh, and, and let others kind of have the floor, but that is also coming from two people that have a microphone and, and we do take up space.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And I think we recognize that and we hope that we counterbalance our space with the people we invite onto this podcast.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: So I think it's time for us to, to go to our next question and the question that we received as obviously from a millennial, because it is talking about millennials and Simon and I are kind of in that category on different spectrums, because I'm going to say this first, the millennial generation is there is a big spectrum of it and we always lump it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: And we always, a lot of the times society gets the generation wrong.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Now they're talking about generation Z, but anyway, so this question is centered around millennials and, um, a Buzzfeed article that we'll put the link to don't worry.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: But, um, the question is there was a recent Buzzfeed article describing millennials as the burnout generation, as millennials, yourselves.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: What do you think did anything in this article resonate with you?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: If so, how has your church and faith community helped you manage burnout?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Simon?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Did you find any thing that resonated with you in this?
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I did resonate, or I should say the article resonated a lot with me.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: And just so everyone knows the article is called how millennials became the burnout generation by Anne Helen Petersen.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I'm just going to give a quick overview of what was sort of summary about what was in this article and talks about the, this challenge that millennials often have this difficulty in doing what seems to be easy tasks because of burnout.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And that burnout is due to a culture and a mentality that we should be working all the time, that we need to be optimizing ourselves to be the best workers and that mentality.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And that attitude was created by the context we grew up in, and particularly growing up during the 2008 financial crisis, because what happened when that, when that event happened, people either went to school in droves and picked up debt or entered an extremely difficult job market where there that was flushed with people that were overqualified for jobs, and then taking underpaying jobs because of the, just lack of the lack of supply of jobs at that time.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And so the only way to really succeed in that environment was to be better, was to be optimized, to work even when we shouldn't and accept worst treatment or pay in order to prove our value to employers.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And that this is all complimented with the rise of social media, which perpetuates the idea.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: When you see someone, a picture of someone on Facebook or on Instagram, you think that they haven't figured out is sort of contributes to this, this desire of I want their life.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And also the, the increased use of cell phones, which make it even easier to just keep working past regular work hours to sort of always be on and always be available to do more work.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: And the end result of that is that leisure time is no longer leisure time.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And everything now feels like an obligation.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And so that's the overview of what's in the article.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: We recommend that people check it out and I would say, yeah, I agree with a lot of this.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: And I've felt a lot of this as a millennial.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: And I think the question about the church helping people manage burnout is an interesting question because ideally the church is a place where you talk about issues that you're facing like burnout or employment or stresses, but that also assumes that you don't already see the church as another thing to try to fit into your already busy life.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I think a common phrase that's used throughout the article is that millennials have all these checklists and certain things make it onto the checklist.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And there are certain things that will just stay on the checklist for a long period of time and not get touched.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Hence the, the easy tasks that we just don't get to.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And if the church is something that you're barely fitting into your life, that may not be a place where you feel like you can talk about burnout, because it's hard to be invested in it because there are so many other things competing for our attention and our time.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And additionally, the church is a place that already sort of has this dynamic of older folks, telling young people to wait your turn late until you have more experience until you have, you know, more experience to bring to the table until, you know, more in a more knowledgeable and that attitude of older generations, uh, coupled with the millennial attitude of always keep pushing means that eventually something will give.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And if there aren't those opportunities for millennials in the church, millennials will probably choose to drop church because it would be one less thing to cross off the list because it's, it's a place where either I don't feel heard and I've got, I got other things to do.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I could be busy optimizing my life, trying to be more successful.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: And I just want to add one other caveat, which is that millennials now are old enough that we are pastors.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I, myself am not, but there are millennials who are pastors and who are leaders in the church, even if they're not pastors they're leaders in the pews and their congregations, they're old enough to be elders.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: They're old enough to be coming out of seminary.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And there should be some kind of intentional discussion about avoiding the burnout that already exists in the faith-based nonprofit justice space, because that already is a thing.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: And the unique way that millennials also experienced burnout because of the context they'll be thrown up in.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's just going to feed that.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's just some pho some things for folks to think about, what do you think Lee?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like this.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: So there's basically in this, there's a quote that says we're not teens anymore.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: And we're adults.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: And basically that the challenges that we are, it says the challenges we are facing aren't fleeting, but they're systemic.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And I do think there, there is kind of a dismissive way in which millennials, the talk about millennials has been framed, and I've seen this in the church too, that millennials are grouped into, uh, some arbitrary category that like we're young and we're not very, we're not very appreciative of what we have.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: And like, I mean, I've heard this from older generations about being lazy and all this kind of stuff.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And actually it is the complete opposite.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: We are the one, we are the generation with the most student debt.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: We are the generation that has had multiple jobs.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I have had probably 12 or 13 jobs in my life.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And three of those were at the same time.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: At one point after I graduated college, have student debt, you know, like there's all these things that because of being young, there are many things that are inferred because there are generations that are, that came before us, that they, the boomer generations where some of some people had to experience war.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Some people had to experienced the depression.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Some people experienced different things.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And so you automatically apply that to people, um, that come after you.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And it's like, it's like the generation game, like who had at worse, who had it harder.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And we don't, oh, you also don't talk enough about the intersectionality of a generation.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are, there are millennials out there who do have it fine, like have never had to, like, because of privilege, you've never had to work as much as other ones.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So there is a, there is a spectrum in that, but I do agree that there is, there is a lot to this article that people don't understand.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: And I think the main thing that I hope people get from this, especially the church is that again, there is a big spectrum and the generation category at categorizing us as young does, should not for one discount us from leadership or anything like that.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: But, uh, but any generation after us generation Z, they should be in leadership too.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: And, but also it's like just I'm young does not mean I need to work myself to death does not mean that we should cultivate, uh, a culture that I should have to work myself to a point to where I can't even open up a mailbox to get my mail.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I can't even sit on the couch and not relax because I am constantly looking at my phone or constantly checking my emails or have been in a consistent rhythm of constantly working because of the systemic issues.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: And I don't think people realize that a lot.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to relax.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to put down stuff because I have had this mentality of working, working, working, I've been working for a long time and, and constantly doing that.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And so, so I do think in many ways there is a, there is kind of this like who this generational game, like who had it harder or, and we miss the intersectionalities of it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: We miss the, the, the realities of it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And social media has played a huge part in both not only like our physical wellbeing, but our mental health, because we grew up when it started.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, we grew up, I kind of grew up knowing what it was like without it, and now seeing what it's like with it, and people are creating completely different realities for themselves online.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Would you agree?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, I definitely would agree.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: You can tell, I get really passionate about this.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: That was something else that I thought was interesting that this article mentions, and this is not to oversimplify the experiences of older and other generations, but for example, the baby boomer generation grew up, but Jordy in a, in a healthy economy.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: And that hasn't entirely been the case for quite a number of millennials.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And that really, that really does something to the psyche and the perspective of a generation.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Because if you grow up in a, with a financial crisis happening, I feel like it's very easy to always feel like you're in a position of scarcity, which means that you need to work that much harder to achieve this success, achieve the American dream and, you know, and take the bull by the horns and make something of yourself.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: But you're doing that already in a co we've been doing that in a con, we started, sorry.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: We started within a context that was already limited.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And even when the economy improves, we still have that same mentality.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: And so we're, we're pushing for something operating at a position of scarcity towards something that is ultimately us.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to be trying to achieve success by whose measures.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I think is an important thing about it is what we mean by success.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Like, and what is the American dream?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And I feel like a lot of us figured that out, figured it out that that dream has only for a certain amount of people.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: It is, it is that, that American dream, even in like the boomer generation, it was for white people.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And, and I do think that the millennial generation, because of this, because of the amount of things that, that, that we have seen and experienced, and now we can count the pandemic in that.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And a lot of us have experienced that because it was everywhere.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: But I do think, and seeing that we have realized that what is being constructed in this society, this like the American dream idea, or, um, pull yourself up by your bootstraps ideas, that those things are worthless like that, that those things aren't real.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And, and, and, and I think a lot of that hat com social media has done that because we're exposed to different experiences, more so and more wide variety.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: We've seen it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And now we can put language to that.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why we're seeing the generation after ours really began to do work systemically because they don't remember a time without social media, or remember a time that things that you could not see what is happening in the world.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And so I do think in many ways, I hope that we can break this cycle that, that, that generations after ours, we don't develop a culture of, we have to work ourselves sick to, to just to just get by and pay loans and things like that and have multiple jobs.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: But I do think, yeah, it's, it's so complicated, I think.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It's really complicated.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And we just hope that the church is a space that can help people to process and manage some of those anxieties a little bit through, through prayer and reflection, and that it can also be a place that brings people, not just millennials, but across generations together.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And does that to where that's, who we're called to be as church and as community joining us today is a special guests.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: We're really glad to have her to talk about reducing your carbon footprint and environmentally sound lifestyles.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: So joining us is Rebecca Barnes, the coordinator for the Presbyterian hunger program for the Presbyterian church USA.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And this is the question that we're posing to Rebecca is becoming a vegan the best way for someone to reduce their carbon footprint and not contribute to climate change and environmental degradation.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I understand the desire and commitment, but I'm not sure I agree the attitude towards others that some vegans adopts are there alternative ways for me to change my lifestyle, particularly as a person of faith.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So Rebecca, are there alternative ways for this person to change their lifestyle?
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: This is a great question, and I'm really glad to be engaging in this conversation with you all.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you to you both for hosting this, this awesome podcast and these thoughtful and fun conversations.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Uh, so first, just to say a word about that language lowering our carbon footprint, because that's started the language people use, but maybe not everybody thinks about, but it's just a simple way of saying how we lower our impact on the world, around us, through greenhouse gas emissions that lead to climate change.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: And we know that humans have drastically accelerated climate change by the way we consume things.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: And that we're already seeing the impacts of that.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: So worsened, floods, droughts, hurricanes, tsunamis, insect, and fit stations, you know, agricultural cycles changing around the world.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: And so I just want to pause and say for those of us who consume the most oil and gas, fossil fuel products, we're mostly doing that from a position of economic privilege in the world.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: And then that privilege extends by to insulating us from the worst impacts of climate change.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: So we know that those who are already vulnerable in the world and have a pretty minor carbon footprint, uh, because of the circumstances in which they live are facing the worst impacts of climate change.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: So when we talk about lowering our carbon footprint, that's often kind of talking for those of us who have freedom to make some changes in our lives, because we have had such privilege to have a really harsh impact on the world, around us, just because of where we stand, where we're positioned.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: So, so just to give an individual example, like I can drive my car around town, which increases greenhouse gas emissions.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: But then when I hear on the news that there's an air quality alert, I don't have to stand at the bus stop or work outside and a job that breeds that air.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: So I both can like put out some pretty bad stuff in the environment, but then also I can protect myself or, or turn on my air conditioner and not feel that the huge heat wave coming through town.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: And then that's an individual example that the big example is our country.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: So when you think about power and privilege and sort of corporate or, or community context, we're one of the worst global actors emitting greenhouse gases.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: And yet, because we have so much privilege at global power tables, we're not being held to international agreements or those kinds of things.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: So I just wanted to make that little note like lowering our own personal carbon footprint is really important, especially for those of us who have privileged to do so, but also we, we do it as an act of solidarity with people who don't have privilege and don't have choice and don't have freedom necessarily to, to make changes in the way they live because they're subsistence farmers or they're living really at the margins of society.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: And so sometimes people get pointed to in blamed like, oh, they're not being environmentally friendly, but none of that judgmental ism is ever helpful.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: So when we're, um, I think part of the question was about the attitudes vegans might adopt or environmentalist in general.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: I think, uh, that's a really good point that, that there can be sort of, oh, a one-up ism who does it best competition to get the gold star.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: And I will say there are so many awesome ways to engage in the world around us in a positive way, and there's not one right answer.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: So, um, you know, I think that yes, being vegan is a really great way to lower your carbon footprint.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: We know that both the meat industry, but also dairy and meat, huge greenhouse gases.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: So if you feel called to that lifestyle, that's powerful and you should do it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: I've been vegetarian since I was 18.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: That works for me.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: Um, I feel really good about that, but there is no kind of one and done purchase or lifestyle change or the right toilet paper or toothpaste or diet or car that's going to give you the golden ticket to be like, yay, I've done my part, checked it off the list.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: You know, we, um, the problem is complicated and the solutions are just as varied.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Uh, one resource people might be interested if they're really looking at lots of different alternatives is called project drawdown.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And they do really good research on the best climate solutions in every sector.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: So that includes food, but also transportation energy and so forth.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: So kind of what I talk about when I'm talking to people about hunger and environment and climate change and root causes of all those things are that we do need to make our individual choices and lifestyle changes, but we also have to be really clear that public policy advocacy is needed.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: And so maybe you're not called to be vegan, but you're really good at writing letters.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Tell your legislators about the farm bill about the child nutrition act about environmental protections.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: So those are also really good things, or maybe you're not called to be vegan, but you could lower your carbon footprint by eating only animals dairy or produce that's produced in your region by farmers, you know, within a hundred miles of where you live that actually lowers your carbon footprint hugely, but it doesn't change.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: What you can consume in the same way is going vegan.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: So that's all just to say, I think we shouldn't be judging each other.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: We don't want to create apathy.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: We don't want to tell anybody that their steps or what they feel called to change doesn't matter because it all matters when you should be doing all that we can, whenever we can, as much as we can, uh, with, with the way climate change is going.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: But we also need to deal with structural systemic issues.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: And those can be things outside your own personal lifestyle that can be the church you choose to attend.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: And do they have an environmental committee, or it could be, um, the things you choose to read or write, or, you know, op-eds in your newspaper.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: So there are lots of different things, uh, that I see people do that are really inspiring.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: And we definitely don't want to compare one and called one better than the other.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: The judgy thing, I feel like that is a, a great point to, to talk about.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Cause I, cause you do see that like, oh, you're not doing what you're supposed to do.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And I am not a vegan.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I, I was raised on a pig farm, but I was also raised on a pig farm that technically was like free range and, or like, it could have been organic really if they would have gotten it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And so like, so there are also those stories out there that I wonder about lifting up and, uh, and thinking about, but, but yeah, the judgmental thing, and as people of faith, I wonder what that says as well.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: When we have a posture of judgment,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: It's a definite matter of faith to figure out where we feel, God calls us to use our gifts and skills and our position in life.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: So I think you can see really great examples of farmers that are raising animals and doing really humane practices with livestock and really integrating them into the farm, using them a newer, you know, there are lots of ways in which things can be, not as environmentally friendly, but also incorporate elements of social justice.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Cause if you think about worker issues and farm worker issues and food chain workers, we need to not just care about the lives that animals live, but what quality of life do people live and how that intersects with racism and classism and gender imbalances and all.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: So
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Rebecca, thank you for being with us and thank you for responding this question, because I know a lot of people who are asking this, like what they can do about the things that they eat or the choices they make in their everyday lives and as people of faith, what does that mean?
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: So thank you for responding to our question and thank you for being a part of the podcast.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: We're really glad that we're here
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: To be with you all.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: So joining us today for our resource Roundup segment is Jennifer Evans, the program assistant for partner grants and communications for the Presbyterian hunger program.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And we're really excited to have Jennifer with us in addition to Rebecca from earlier, because Jennifer is going to give us some additional resources that folks and congregations and communities really should be checking out related to environmental protection, environmental care, climate change, and poverty and hunger alleviation.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So Jennifer, thanks for being with us.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Thanks Simon.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: It's great to be here.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: So what, uh, what resources do you recommend that folks check out?
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the latest resource is the 2020 PHP impact report, which I think Rebecca mentioned earlier, just to give you an idea on the cover, we featured a group name improvement and development for community center or Inco since we like our acronyms and they're an international grant partner of PHP in Palestine, and it co works to enhance the resilience and livelihoods of disadvantaged small scale farmers in the Gaza strip and they provide agricultural inputs and technical on the farm assistance training.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: So we've included a brief story of how that work has directly impacted the farmers and their families.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: It co also provided an excellent companion video.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: That's linked on that front page as well with more in-depth personal stories from the farmers in Palestine, which felt really timely right now on the inside.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: We pull out some hunger stats and, um, just to show the multiple ways that PHP addresses root causes of hunger through direct food relief, sustainable development, education, sustainable living, and advocacy.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: And we noted that we approach our work by looking to our partners who are on the front lines and directly impacted by systems of injustice.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: So we're listening for their perspectives and solutions.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And then PHP works to amplify our partners, campaigns, and strategies throughout our Presbyterian networks.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: So, well, some of our work or much of our work can't be quantified numerically or within the span of just one year because we know that long-term sustainable development, um, community empowerment and real systems change takes time.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: So overall this report offers a few examples of how gifts to PHP and one grade hour of sharing have made an impact this past year.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: The other resource that I wanted to mention is the PHP posts, which is our hunger journal.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: That's produced twice a year around different themes.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: And the latest theme is Matthew 25 and PHP.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: And so we thought that was an important since PCUSA has committed itself to a vision of Matthew 25 and PHP has long worked to alleviate and eliminate poverty and hunger to redistribute resources for all people, as we fight racism and our colonial history and to enliven congregations, um, through supporting their hunger action congregations, the earth care congregations and their community organizing efforts.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: So in this spring issue, there are examples of how we carry out that work with congregations and with grant partners.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: And lastly, you can always catch up with PHP by liking or following us on Facebook or Twitter.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: And you can also find more information by visiting our website, www.pcusa.org backslash.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: That's
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Great, Jennifer, thanks so much for sharing those.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: And we'll be sure to put the links to all, both of those resources in the show notes for folks to be able to check out.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: And, uh, Jennifer, it's been a real pleasure to have both you and Rebecca on the podcast today.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: And we're very grateful for the work that you both do with the hunger program and blessings on your ministry.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Simon.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: This has been the matter of faith podcast brought to you by the Presbyterian peacemaking program and Unbound.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: If you would like to submit a question for discussion, you can do so@faithpodcastatpcusa.org, we look forward to hearing from you, see you next time, see you next time.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Y'all
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks everyone for listening to episode 15 of a matter of fate, a Presby podcast, don't forget to subscribe using your favorite podcast platform.
• 41:23
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• 41:25
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