Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Murder In Moscow: How Bryan Kohberger’s Mental Health Could Shape His Legal Future (8/25/26)

Transcript

Murder In Moscow: How Bryan Kohberger’s Mental Health Could Shape His Legal Future (8/25/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to spin back up to Moscow
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about Brian Colberger and the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: mental health diagnosis that was revealed during the build up
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: towards the trial, and that's being talked about once again,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and obviously it has relevance considering what's going on with
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Clancy and the discussion around mental health. So today
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: we have an article from Newsweek and the headline how
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Brian Colberger's diagnosis could impact possible trial and sentencing. Well,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: it's not going to impact the trial, that's for sure.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: As far as sentencing goes. They tried to use those
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: conditions as mitigating factors so that the judge would remove
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the death penalty, and Judge Hitler wasn't having it. And
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think that Coburger is going to be successful
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: this time around either. This man knew exactly what he
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: was doing and he carried out his plans almost a perfection.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And if it wasn't for that knife sheath, this might
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: be a whole different conversation. This article was authored by
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Kalito Rockman. Brian Colberger's mental health disorders could be a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: factor if he succeeds in withdrawing his guilty plea and
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: going to trial for the murders of four University of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Idaho's students. Experts told Newsweek, Yeah, I don't buy it. Sorry,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: much to do about nothing. Coleburger, thirty one, pleaded guilty
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: to the fatal stabbings of Kaille Gonsalves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and Madison Mogan in July of last year, just weeks
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: before he was set to go to trial for the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: murders at a rental home near the university's campus in Moscow, Idaho,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in November of twenty twenty two. He's serving four consecutive
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: life sentences. Should have threw his ass directly in a volcano,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: because this son of a bitch is as guilty as
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the day is long, and I don't want to hear
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a shit about his mental condition. Go get fucked. Save
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that shit for Lindsay Clancy, because that narrative has already
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: been tried here and it's already went down in flames.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So it might have something to do with mitigation if
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: it goes to a new trial, but I don't think so.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I think that when we're talking about somebody like Brian Coolberger,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: somebody that was as locked in as he was when
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: it comes to school, et cetera, you're gonna have a
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: hard time convincing a jury that he was suffering some
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: kind of psychosis. Oh he's crazy, there's no doubt, But
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: being crazy is not the same as being criminally insane.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Prosecutors have yet to respond to the filing, but Idaho
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Attorney General Raoul R. Labrador said in a statement that
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: his office was ready to do whatever necessary to ensure
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: justice was carried out. Well, cool great, make sure this
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: rotten son of a bitch never leaves jail. Let's start
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: there now. Newly unsealed court filings provide details of the
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: neuropsychological evaluation that Coburger underwent following his arrest. We talked
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: about this at the time. We have the court documents
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: talking about it, so it's not like it was just unveiled.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Now we have a little bit more depth and some
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: more context. But if you read the court filings, Brian
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Colberger's team made these arguments and they were completely and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: utterly rejected by the judge. Coberger's attorneys had him examined
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: by a clinical neuropsychologist, doctor Rachel Lorre, who diagnosed him
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: with autism spectrum disorder, which is attorney sided in an
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: unsuccessful bid to get the death penalty removed as a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: possible punishment. Nemo Rochmanni, a former federal prosecutor who is
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: now president of law firm West Coast Trial Lawyers, told
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Newsweek that the diagnosis alone are unlikely to persuade a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: judge to now set aside Coburger's guilty plea. Yeah, no, shit,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: they're not setting anything aside. Brian Colberger has no chance
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: to win when it comes to, oh my mental conditions, Sorry, buddy,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: you're not a well to do a woman from Massachusetts
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: that only works there, not in Idaho. Now, if you
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: want to get away with a crime, seems to me
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: that Massachusetts is the place to do it. What an
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: absolute circus and shit show. But he said that they
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: could become relevant if he argues that they prevented him
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: from fully understanding the consequences of his plea. If Coberger
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: can convince the court that his attorney's misled him or
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that he didn't understand the consequences of his guilty plea,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: because of his diagnosis, then they may be relevant to withdrawal,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: he said. But he understood how to take tests, He
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: understood how to process a crime scene. He understood how
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to go to college. Save that shit for somebody else. Look,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: there's a legitimate cause for concern when somebody has real
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: psychological issues. But what we're talking about here is absolute bullshit.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: The dude is on the spectrum, that's it. He's not
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a full on autist, right, Just read the court documents
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: for yourself. According to the report, Or met with Coburger
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: on six separate occasions to interview and evaluate them between
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty four and January of twenty twenty five.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: She diagnosed them with autism spectrum disorder level one, without
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: accompanying intellectual or language impairment. That's the most important part. Okay,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that's the most important part. No intellectual or language impairment.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Couse understood exactly what he was doing when he murdered
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: those kids, and he understood what he was doing when
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: he accepted that plea attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, which she
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: noted he was in partial remission for obsessive compulsive disorder
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: avoidance restrictive food intake disorder. So all of that stuff
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: led him to kill people. Give me a break. Sorry
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: not buying it. We all have mental health issues. Doesn't
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: mean we're going out to kill people. Doesn't mean we're
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: strangling our children or His report also list additional diagnosis
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: that Coburger had met the criteria for in the past,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: including developmental coordination disorder. Doesn't mean shit, got to college right,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: got to graduate school, was about to become a criminal profiler,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: so save it. And orexia nervosa on specified depressive disorder
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and opioid use disorder. Bro who isn't depressed? I mean,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: come on, have you taken a look at the state
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: of the world. My patience is running real thin when
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: it comes to shit like this. If these people are
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: criminally insane, then what about somebody like Gary Ridgeway. What
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: about Lori Valo? She wasn't even there when the kids
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: were killed. She was found not mentally competent to stand
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: trial for a little while. So should Lori Valo get
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the same treatment that Brian Colberger gets or that Lindsey
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Clancy gets. Something to sit with Brockmanni said it's unlikely
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that Colburger will be successful in his bid to withdraw
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: his guilty plea, but even if he is, his diagnosis
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: would not be relevant that trial. Autism, adhd, OCD, and
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: AFRED are not relevant to whether Colberger committed the murders
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: or any other elements of the crimes, so they won't
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: come into the guilt phase of the trial even if
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Colberger is permitted to withdraw his plea. He said, yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: it's only about mitigation. That's the only time that this
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: stuff matters mitigation. This rotten son of a bitch knew
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: exactly what he was doing. Okay, he planned it, premeditated it,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and then carried it out, So save the bullshit. I
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: think he has had a hard time adjusting in custody.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: That gives them greater incentive to withdraw his plea. And
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: as for a trial, she said, Levinson said, if it happens,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: she would expect prosecutors would seek to use any and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: all evaluations in a trial of him on the underlying
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Because Coberger accepted a plea deal that took the death
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: penalty off the table, his diagnosis were not a major
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: issue at sentencing, but that could change if he was
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: allowed to withdraw his plea. Be convicted after a trial
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and then face a new sentence, including the possibility of
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: the death penalty. That's where it could play. Let's be
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: very clear, mitigation is the penalty phase. It has nothing
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to do with the trial part. Just the mitigation of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the penalty, and that's a whole different conversation. Right. I'm
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: willing to listen at least, but let's not confuse the two.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: His mental health, his special needs, or any disabilities maybe
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: mitigating factors at sentencing that the jurors can consider in
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: deciding whether to sentence him to life or death. Rockmanni said,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: But this will only be relevant if he withdraws his
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: plea and after he is found guilty. Right, So, right
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: now it really means nothing.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: We're getting the information, and that's good. We need to
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have as much information as possible. But in the grand
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: scheme of things, his mental state is not something new.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: We've known about this, and in my opinion, it's certainly
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: not going to be enough the plea. Before a Coburger
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: accepted the plea deal, his attorney had asked a judge
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to remove the death penalty as a possible punishment, citing
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: his autism diagnosis. They argued that executing someone with autism
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: would constitute cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: to the US Constitution. What constitutional rights did those kids have? Oh,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: that's right, none, because this dirty, rotten son of a
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: bitch crept into their house in the middle of the
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: night like a fucking coward and killed them. So please
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: save the bullshit when it comes to Brian Colberger. My
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: patience has warned thin. But Judge Stephen Hitler sided with
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: prosecutors who argued that under the US Supreme Court precedent,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the only mental disability that precludes in position of the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: death penalty is an intellectual disability. Colberger was diagnosed with
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: autism without accompanying intellectual impairment. Not only has defendant failed
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to show that AA is equivalent to an intellectual disability
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: for death penalty exemption purposes, he has not shown there
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: is a national consensus against subjecting individuals with ASD to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: capital punishment. Hippler wrote, in order ASD may be mitigating
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: factor to be weighed against the aggravating factors in determining
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: if defendant should receive the death penalty, but it's not
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: a death penalty disqualifier. One hundred percent. That's an argument
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that would be had once we got to the penalty stage,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and obviously that didn't happen. Doctor Ty Milton, Assistant Professor
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: of Psychology and Counseling and Director of Psychology at Mid
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: American Christian University, told Newsweek that the evaluations Coburger underwent
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: were extensive and thorough, but while the diagnosis are clinically significant,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: they should not be construed as justifying violent behavior or
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: implying that an individual is incapable of comprehending his or
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: her situation. He said, yeah, maybe they should use a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: little bit of that shade in Massachusetts. The combination of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the disorders is more informative than studying any single diagnosis separately.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Milton said autism may cause rigidary and social processing difficulties,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: OCD may encourage repetitive or inflexible thought patterns, and ADHD
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: may impair executive control and impulsiveness. These qualities may influence
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: how an individual handles pressure, conflict, uncertainty, and emotionally charged
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: decision making. He cautioned against drawing direct links between diagnosis
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and criminal behavior. The majority of people with autism, ADHD, OCD,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: depression or eating disorders do not act violently. Milton said.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: What behavioral science may investigate is if the failure linked
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: with these illnesses influenced his individual cognitive flexibility, emotional regulation,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: interpersonal awareness, coping mechanisms, perception of pressure, or decision making abilities.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Oh save it. I don't even want to hear it.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired of it. People out here murdering motherfuckers
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and then saying, oh I was crazy. Yeah, no, shit,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: you're crazy. You're still going to the pen. Shut the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: fuck up and enjoyed the clink. Regarding Coburger's effort to
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: revoke the plea, Milton said, the key question is whether
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: his disorders affected his judgment during the plea negotiations. Oh yeah,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: sure they did.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: That would be convenient. Huh did these conditions influence how
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Brian handled pressure, digested alternatives, talk with others, or made
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: critical decisions under stress? The current examination provides grounds to
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: investigate these problems, Milton said. Another one of those Huh,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of people out there that fall
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: in love with these fucking criminals, and I just don't
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: get it. Look, you can be fair without riding somebody's jock.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: You can be fair without glazing them, but I think
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: some people have forgotten that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: However, these findings do not demonstrate that his diagnosis influence
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: his decisions. Idaho prosecutors expected to respond to Colberger's petition
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: for a post conviction relief in the coming days. Under
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Idaho law, the state generally has thirty days after a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: post conviction application is docketed to file an answer or
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: seek dismissal, though the court can extend that deadline. Since
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Colberger's petition was filed on July twenty seventh, a response
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: could come by late August. After reviewing the filings, Judge
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Stephen Hitler will decide whether to dismiss the petition or
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: allow the case to move forward to additional proceedings, such
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: as an evidentiary hearing. So I don't think that they're
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: going to be successful trying to get Coburger to get
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: this plea knocked off the books. But weirder things have happened,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So we'll keep an eye on things, and when the
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: prosecution responds, we'll get that added to the catalog. All
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: in the description box.