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I Am All In…Again: Rory is Not the Golden Child (Season 4 E22 “Raincoats and Recipes”) · I Am All In with Scott Patterson

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I am all in.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Again!
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: More, more, more.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I want to kiss you more. More, more, more. I
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: want to kiss you more.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I am all in. Again, with Scott Patterson and iHeartRadio Podcast. Hey, everybody.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Scott Patterson. I am all in. Podcast 111 Productions. iHeartRadio Media. iHeart.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: podcast we have the season finale season four episode 22
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: raincoats and recipes with our very special co-host john stevens
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: i'm also joined by suzanne french you know her you
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: love her uh john hello uh how are you i
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: am going to read before we get to you we
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: have so many questions for you because you're just mr
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: inside baseball And we've got you, and we're going to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: squeeze every ounce of knowledge out of you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Leave no stone unturned, Scott.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And behind the scenes. You know, John, as producer, writer
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: for Gilmore Girls, went viral for sharing that he is
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the reason for Kirk's Night Terror storyline. He has also
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: worked on the OC Gossip Girl and current Amazon TV
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  Speaker 1: series every year. After, welcome to the show, John. Hi, Scott.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, buddy. I really appreciate it.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: You got it. You were a producer for season four
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of Gilmore Girls and a writer for season one through four. John,
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  Speaker 1: tell us how you got the job.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: How did I get the job? That's a great question.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I think, first off, that was my first job, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And by that I don't mean like my first television job.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I mean like my first time people paid me money
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  Speaker 2: to like do work, which is shocking, number one. It
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  Speaker 2: shows Amy's judge of character. I'll say that too. You know,
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  Speaker 2: I'd moved out to LA and I was like, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to, I'd heard that television writing was a job
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  Speaker 2: people got paid money for. So I wrote a couple
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: of spec scripts, which is how you got a job
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: back in 1999, I guess it was. And that was
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  Speaker 2: the first year, Scott, you remember this probably of the
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  Speaker 2: West Wing and the Sopranos. So I was like, these
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: shows look like they're quality shows. So I wrote specs
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: of both of those, which are obvious comps to Gilmore Girls.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: You go, if you want a job with Gilmore Girls,
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  Speaker 2: write a Sopranos spec. I mean, it makes sense. complete
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: sense right so i wrote those and i got two
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  Speaker 2: meetings from those scripts one on a darren star show
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  Speaker 2: called the street that lasted six episodes and the other
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  Speaker 2: was with amy and i was thinking about back upon
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  Speaker 2: this recently uh by meeting with amy the weekend before
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: you know where you go and you meet with the
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  Speaker 2: show that's how you get a job as a television
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  Speaker 2: writer you meet with the showrunner i spent most of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the weekend shopping for the perfect pair of khakis Which
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: clearly I found because I got the job. But I
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  Speaker 2: showed up with Amy and we spent most of the meeting.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Amy was obviously wearing a hat. Say that, number one.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: We spent most of the meeting talking about our shared
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: love for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And I'm pretty sure
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: that's why I got the job.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: All right.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Did you have any idea what you were getting into?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Because the dialogue was so different from anything else out there.
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  Speaker 1: Had you read the pilot or? Was there a pilot
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  Speaker 1: written or I guess there was, right?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the pilot had been written and it was definitely
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: different from other ones. But I honestly, Scott, I was
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: too like, you know, fresh off the turnip truck to
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  Speaker 2: know the difference. Like, you know, it was like pilot seasons.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: You know, it was like William Morris sent me like
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: a giant stack of pilots to like read through for
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  Speaker 2: all possibilities. So I didn't know enough, honestly, to know
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  Speaker 2: the difference between that and like some cop procedure where
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: someone was saying, hands up. And every scene was three
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  Speaker 2: quarters of a page long rather than five or six
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  Speaker 2: pages long. What I knew from reading it was the...
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Because I had been back in the day... Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 2: Where's my brain, Scott? What's the show that took place
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  Speaker 2: in Alaska, the small town?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Alaska small town?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Northern Exposure.
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  Speaker 1: Northern Exposure. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So I'd been a Northern Exposure fan back in the
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  Speaker 2: day as well as Picket Fences. So I read... the pilot,
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  Speaker 2: and I loved the sense of the small town and
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the community, you know? And I loved the voiciness of
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  Speaker 2: the show because even in the pilot back then, the
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  Speaker 2: voice came through, Amy's voice came through, you know, and
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  Speaker 2: the characters' voices came through. So I thought, I mean,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: first off, let me just say this. I would have
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  Speaker 2: probably taken any job anybody had offered me back from
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the time, but when I got that job, I was
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  Speaker 2: just thrilled. But- So I didn't know a little bit
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  Speaker 2: that it was a little bit different, but I didn't
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  Speaker 2: know how different it was. Right.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. So pivotal season, season four was for all the characters.
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  Speaker 1: What was the discussion like in the writer's room?
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  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
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  Speaker 1: To wait this long for Luke and Lorelei to get together.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure you know all this because you guys have
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  Speaker 2: been talking about this forever. So I apologize if I
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  Speaker 2: rehash old stuff, but when you're a television writer, there
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: are certain like, things in television writing history that hang
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: over you and that color all your decisions, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and one of those cautionary tales is moonlighting, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and that moment when they get together in moonlighting and
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  Speaker 2: that show just take, it was so wonderful and it
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: was so sparkly and fun intention. And then it just
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: falls off a cliff. So even though we knew they,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: that that was the ultimate plan, you're like, you just
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: got to hold it off as long as you possibly can.
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  Speaker 1: Right. But that was a two-hander for all intents and purposes.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I know they tried to make Gilmore Girls marketing-wise a two-hander.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't. It just wasn't. It was so equally weighted
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: in other areas and other characters. But yeah, no, I
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: get that. I get that. Yes, you have to. You
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: can't give them what they want because if you do,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: they're going to go away and there's a lot of data. Yeah.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of data. And also there was no,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: there's no franchise to the show. Like there's not a
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: body every week or there was not a, you know,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like the pit or something like you really
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: had the relationship stories to go to. And once you
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: went there, you had to go there. So, and you
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: didn't want to do the thing where they break up,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: get back together, break up, get back together as well.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And we wanted to see how you would turn out, Scott,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: obviously too, you know, this guy's a big question mark.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, season four, still the question mark, of course.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know if he's going to make it
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: on this show. Why was season four, John, the season
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: for big changes?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I think a lot of it is, you know,
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  Speaker 2: driven by Rory's age in many ways.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Because when you're an adult, your life doesn't, well, I'm
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: sure your life is exciting and vibrant. Scott didn't change
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  Speaker 2: it so much. Most of our lives when you're an adult,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: they're like, The changes are very, very incremental. But when
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: you're a teenager or a young adult and you're going
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: off to college, that is a massive change. So we
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: knew Rory was going off to college. That was going
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: to change her life. It was going to change Lorelai's life.
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  Speaker 2: It was going to upend everything. So the fact that
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: that was there in the mix is like, well, we
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  Speaker 2: knew that was going to have ripple effects throughout everything.
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  Speaker 1: Was there ever a discussion with Amy and Dan in
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  Speaker 1: the room where... you considered making multiple seasons out of
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  Speaker 1: one school year? Like extend Chilton out four seasons. She
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: got two years at Chilton or something and then make
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  Speaker 1: it four seasons.
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  Speaker 2: It's a good question. Obviously, take everything with a grain
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  Speaker 2: of salt because my memory is not what it used
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  Speaker 2: to be. But I want to say that that was
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  Speaker 2: raised at a certain point. And I think very quickly,
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  Speaker 2: Amy said no to that.
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  Speaker 1: Of course. Another one of my ideas.
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  Speaker 2: I think she says, Scott, pitch that.
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  Speaker 1: Boo.
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  Speaker 2: I think she knows she really wanted the integrity of
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  Speaker 2: the show to feel real.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: And the minute you start like pulling that plastic out
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  Speaker 2: a little bit, pulling that rubber band a little bit,
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  Speaker 2: it starts to break a little bit. Because if you
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  Speaker 2: don't do it at the beginning, like, you know, the
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  Speaker 2: first example that comes to my head, Deadwood, every show
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  Speaker 2: is a day, you know? But they start that from
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  Speaker 2: the very beginning. Every show is 24 hours, so you
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: can understand that, you know, or the pit or what
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  Speaker 2: have you. It would have felt like we were doing
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: it for artificial reasons. So I remember, I want to
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  Speaker 2: say it was raised and Amy quickly said, nope.
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  Speaker 1: All right, so the air date for this episode, May 18th, 2004, synopsis.
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  Speaker 1: It's a test run of the Dragonfly Inn where major
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  Speaker 1: revelations come to head. Luke and Lorelei move past the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: friend zone. but not without Jason trying to ruin it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: A putrid attempt, I might add. Emily and Richard finally
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  Speaker 1: admit their separation and Rory and Dean make a big
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  Speaker 1: wrong decision about theirs, directed by Amy Sherman-Palladino, written by
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Amy Sherman-Palladino. Let's get into Rory and Dean. Here we go.
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  Speaker 1: Rory is up at 3 a.m. making mac and cheese
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: and doing laundry. She goes over to Lane's to play
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: video games. Um, about Jess and Dean. She thinks Jess
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is unpredictable and talks up Dean because he is dependable
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and she felt safe with him feels like she blew
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it and didn't appreciate him. What do we think about
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: all this, John? It's a little out of character for
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  Speaker 1: Rory and why'd they want to go this extreme for
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Rory to act this way and be the other woman?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you were you're going right forward, Scott.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: You know, this is really, this is a hot button
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: topic that I think people have incredibly strong feelings about.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: We have our finger on the pulse.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: You do, my friend. You know, I think, again, this
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: was something that there was a lot of discussion about
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: and I also feel like, again, I'm always nervous about
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: my memories and not wanting to put words in anybody's mouth,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: you know, but I feel like Amy had a strong
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: opinion about not wanting Rory to be a saint on television,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: you know, and really didn't want her to be just
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: like this ideal that she was going to be somebody
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: who made mistakes, you know, and that there was also
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: going to be a line drawn from mother to daughter
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, guys come into their lives and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: they make decisions they might not have made or their
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: lives go left instead of right. And so, drawing that
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: line to Rory, I think was part of it, but
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: also saying, this is the kid who is not going
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: to be a golden idol. You know, they're going to
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: do things that we may not like, and they're going
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: to have to dig their way back out again, which
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I use, I'm going to put this in air quotes.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: No one's going to see it, but Hey guys, I
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: have air quotes. We as dramatists really like, you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: like you want the characters to do things where they,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: where the audience is going, no, don't do that. I
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: don't agree with that. And I think Rory is a
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: classic example of this because I, I mean, Scott, what
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: were you like when you were 17, Scott? Did you
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: ever make decisions that Scott would look back on?
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Golden or it was just all like you heard violins
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and angels.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: When you were working in the Peace Corps and like
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: also at the same time and writing.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Poetry.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So I think that was the thinking behind it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to pox and all. You got to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: warn them up. Emily invites Rory to go away for
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the summer. Just the two of them, Richard and Lorelei,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: are surprised. And there is tension. Okay, I mean, all
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, well, you know, if I'm Emily, I've
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: had enough. I've just had enough. Pendleton, Lott, and now this. Mm-hmm.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: That name just rolled off your tongue so well, by
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the way, Pendleton Lott.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just such a red flag in this entire relationship,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: this entire marriage. Yeah. Was there discussion, were there discussions
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: in the room about separating them when Emily discovered the
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Pendleton Lott, when Richard admitted the 30 years of lunches
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: with Pendleton Lott?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I think discussion, yes, but not like, oh, we're going
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to do it now. there's always that sense of like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: how can you, because they were a couple for whom
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: their social appearance was so, so, so important, the idea
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: that they were going to truly separate and truly break up,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that never felt like it was going to be on
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: the table for Emily, you know? But so how the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: question then, so we, that question was, I say that
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: because we discussed that, you know? And then the question
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: of like, well, then how do she, distance herself physically
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and emotionally from richard without making him move out without
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: asking him for a divorce or something like that and
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: some of that is like so we're going to go
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to europe and i'm taking my granddaughter with me you
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: know there's also an element to there i mean it's
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: such a loaded decision you're making on the one hand
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: if you go back to like season one richard and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: rory are going to go to fez maybe or that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: feels like that's a discussion perhaps so the fact that
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: she's usurping richard's role in rory's life feels like a
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: dig at richard number one You know, but also in
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: my mind, at least when I was thinking about it,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: like Rory's really serves that Emily's cover in that situation.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: You know, if Emily had gone by herself to Europe
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: or whatever, that would have been a red flag to
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: all their friends. Taking your granddaughter to Europe is a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: way of like, oh, I'm just taking my granddaughter to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Europe and I can get away from this guy. You know,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: but nobody knows that we're going through all these problems.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I think another element of that, too, is that Emily
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: is tired of Richard making decisions without her. And so
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: this is her, like, asserting her own independence. Like, I'm
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: going to go to Europe with Rory, and I'm not
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: going to tell you about it first. We're just going
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: to go.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, 100%.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It's so wildly and perfectly passive-aggressive.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: All right, now let's get into all this Dean Rory stuff. Wow.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, Lorelei comes home, catches those two, and it's like, uh-oh,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that's not the daughter I raised. Perfect example of not
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: wanting to portray Rory as the golden child. But as
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a teenager with hormones raging, I guess. Quite an effective ending,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I thought. Very effective. She storms out. I hate you
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: for ruining this for me. And then breaks down. She calls.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Here's Lindsay's voice. Pretty powerful stuff.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: It was great. Absolutely great.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: It really was. And I'm just, I continue to marvel
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: at the skills of Alexis. I just, I just, there
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: is such an ease with everything. And I just, It's
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: one of the big takeaways for me watching this again,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: because it's the only second time I've seen it. So
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: she's marvelous.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: She really is.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: She really is. Isn't she just marvelous?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: She's so real. You believe her, Ezra. She's so realistic.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: The performance is so naturalistic. It's so much more affecting
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: because of that, I think.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Right. Guys, let's hop in an Uber helicopter and get
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: over to the Dragonfly Inn. I hear there's a test run.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: So Lorelei is inviting the townspeople for a test run
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: at the inn. Meanwhile, Suki is excited for the full
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: kitchen staff. She has seven people, but they're only budgeted
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: for five. Jason shows up. Wow. Jason. You know, I
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: got to tell you, I really enjoyed watching that relationship unfold.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I really, really did. As a fan of the show,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I got a kick out of him. And he lost
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: me with the first night that they were together and
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: then won me right back with admitting to how quirky
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and weird he is about. And then putting Lorelei in
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: that beautifully appointed room, guest room, and making her feel
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: very special. And I thought, boy, that guy, he's owning
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that quirk. He's owning the quirkiness. And that's why I
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: just like, all right, I'm into this a little bit.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Let's see where this goes.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I agree. He was a really specific character in a way,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: but also very subtle. It didn't come out and hit
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: you over the head immediately with all his eccentricities that
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: kind of unfold.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just love that. I love the relationship. I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: was kind of sorry to see it end. I wanted
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: it to go a little longer.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And the casting of that was great. I thought, you know.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he was perfect for that. He really was. Okay,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: this is In the Room, the first kiss. How much
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: discussion happened in the room about the first kiss? Did
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Amy said it's coming at the end of season four?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Did everybody know? What were those discussions like?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I really tried to think about this. I really did.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I cannot remember because I feel like.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: My mind says it has to have had, you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: because it's so dramatic. It has to have, like, there
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: has to be the reason behind it. There hasn't been
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like mucho discussion. But I also feel like if I'm
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: to make suppositions, I think Amy had it in her
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: mind for a while.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Because she did have dramatic signposts in her mind that
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: we would find out sometimes way down the line, you know?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And I think that was probably one of them. But
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I knew I, so I, Unfortunately, that's one of those
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: ones where I do not remember. I wish I could
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: give you some light on that. I can make something up,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: but I don't think it would be true.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So I'm poking around the internet and I'm watching parts
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: of the episode on a YouTube channel, some guy who's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: hosting it from the UK. And he's got a little
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: bubble in the bottom left. bottom right of the screen
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and he's commenting on the episode. So this is what
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: he does. He has his own thing. He's got subscribers
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and it's like, he's doing a rewatch thing too. And
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: so this, the first kiss comes. Yeah. And this is
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the first time this guy is seeing it and you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: forget how this impacted fans. This was the first time
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I've seen this. Amazing. And this guy was, he's like 30.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: He's in his room and he's commenting on every little thing.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So you can hear the dialogue, but you also hear
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: him and he's a little loud. He's going, no, no,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: don't do it. And it's like this play by play,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: like it's a game or something.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's amazing. I wish I could have seen that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Well, his reaction is everything. This guy's reaction. I mean,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: he just, he falls out. He doesn't know whether to
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: laugh or cry or, and he just like almost falls
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: out of his chair.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: That is perfect. That's exactly what you want.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: This is unbelievable.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Because it's so rare when you make television, you never
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: get to be there when people are really watching it.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: No, but this is fascinating to watch this man's reaction. Yeah. Anyway,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: we'll come back to that. All right. So the first kiss.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Great. moment.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Key moment.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Key moment. And it's all that Jason stuff. And I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: thought really good stuff. Good scene between Jason and Luke. Good,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: great scene between Luke and Lorelei. One of my favorite, obviously.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, of course, Kirk is, is going to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: run through there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Is the best.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And as I noticed, and the guy watching it live,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: he seemed a little disappointed. that Kirk was running through
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and a little confusing because he said, well, they're going
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to go for like round three. Like he wanted more kissing, right?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: That seems to be the general reaction. Like so annoyed
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: at Kirk for ruining that moment.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: But that's like, you know, I wanted to, I yelled
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: at the guy, but that's Amy Sherman Paladino. That's what
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: she does, bro.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: It's going to be super emotional and then we're going
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: to undercut it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Right. So good.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Not always with a naked dude running past, but with something.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I do remember that. I do. I do have like
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: strong memories of like that. I feel like, I was like,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like her joy at realizing that's what's going
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: to happen. It's going to be undercut.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Right. You know? Well, John, you posted on Instagram that
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: you are the reason why Kirk got night tears because
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: you used to have them.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I still have them. I had one the other night.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I thought I was free. Came back.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Well, we were staying up. We were up at this
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: cabin up in the mountains and, a couple of nights
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: before a bear had torn open our rat, our garbage hutch,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: you know, rip the door off it. So I was
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: sleeping with like pots and pans next to the bed
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: in case the bear came back. And so two nights
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: later I just leaped out of bed and like was
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: running around banging pots and pans. And my wife and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: son were like, what is wrong with you? There's nothing outside.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: It's still like buried inside me somewhere. But, but I remember, yeah,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that when I taught, when I told that story in
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: the room, Amy's reaction was like, obviously Kirk has that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right. Well, Emily, we can go back to Dragonfly. Jason,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: you know, he's not leaving. He's not going to leave.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: He's determined. And Lorelei's just like, oh, God, I have
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to deal with this. Realizing maybe the effect that she
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: has on men is a little deeper than most. And
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I thought Beautifully Played Again by Chris Eggerman just did
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a great job. Just such a great job. He just
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: wants to talk it out. He wants to talk about
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the relationship. And she just can't get rid of the guy.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: He goes, well, I'm going to be sitting here. And
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that's another thing I like about him. It's like, yeah,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: fight for her. You've got to, because you really blew it, pal.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: But it's also like, that's not the way like most
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: breakups go in television, which are so great. Usually you
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: get in there and it's like, like, okay. And they
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: walk away.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You know, again, I think it's one of the things
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: that Amy and Dan did so well in the show
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: is like, everything's a little bit of a left turn.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Like it's the, it's what you think is going to happen.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Like it goes down the road and then it always
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: skews somewhere idiosyncratic.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: How much presence do Amy and Dan have in the,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in the writer's room? Let's say it's, when is your
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: week start for a new episode? How ahead of the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: game are you? I mean, we're filming episode three. Is
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: episode four already written?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: No, historically, and I'm sure you know, I mean, obviously
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: you know this, the scripts would not always come in
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: on time, you know? And frequently things were being written
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: right before we were shooting them so that people were
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: prepping off of very, very detailed outlines, but outlines, the director,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, nonetheless. You know, there was not a big
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: planned ever any, I mean, you didn't, again, you know,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: this Scott, it's like never any season. Like I would
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: say we had most like guideposts, like signs. We knew
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: we were headed here. We knew here ahead at the
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: end of the season, we knew that this was going
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to be the mid winter finale, you know? And a
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: lot of that was helped by the fact that Gilmore
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: girls was a show so tied to seasonality. You know,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: there was always going to be a fall episode. There
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: was going to be like a winter Christmas episode. There
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: was going to be something that happened in the spring that,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And because we knew that we could kind of map
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: things out a lot of that based upon Rory's school year,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: at least for the first chunk of shows, you know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: but no, there, we never really got that far ahead,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: which always made it a little bit terrifying, which is
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: amazing to me to look at it now that it
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: holds together as well as it does, you know, because
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: it was not really a plan.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Take us through a typical day. You start the episode,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you start brainstorming on a Monday. Yep. You come in,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's eight o'clock, it's nine o'clock, 10 o'clock. That's pretty good.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: All right. How many writers are in the room?
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: It would vary between like what? As we held around five, six, Dan,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you know, and the breakdown was usually Dan was probably
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: more always present in the room. Cause Amy spent a
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: lot of time on set and a lot of time
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: in editorial, you know, especially as the season would go on,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: we would start the season with, after season one seasons
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: two three and four at least that i was there
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: we would do a week-long writers retreat you know before
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the season began we go to vegas um obviously as
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: one does or we went to palm springs one time
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and we would just sit around and talk about big
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: picture where the season is going to go for that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: season which we would where we would map out the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: big things of like you know here jess is going
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: to arrive here and it's going to fall apart here
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and etc and etc And we try to map out
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: that as well as individual standalone episode ideas. And then
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: those would be to large part in the writer's room
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: on a separate whiteboard on the side that we would
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: always be referencing. And then constantly going back to and
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: recorrecting as you do kind of a larger season map.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you're working on that outline, that whiteboard before
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: anybody opens up their laptops and starts typing. Oh, yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Nobody ever opens up a laptop, but yes.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: We got a writer's assistant for it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you guys aren't actually... So the writer's assistant
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: is getting all this information down.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: They get it all on the board. And then we
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: have the board when you have the episodes beginning and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: you have basically frequently a concept for the episode. Sometimes
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that concept is like Rory's birthday party, I'll call it that.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And you know that there are going to be two
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: birthday parties defining the episode. Or the dragonfly end. So
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: you have a defining event. And then we would start
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: to kind of go scene by essentially go scene by
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: scene okay as opposed to other shows the there was
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: a lot more of it was put on the board
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: than on many shows that i've done.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Okay okay and are you are you writing scenes and
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: then amy's rewriting them or is dan rewriting them how
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: is it working in the room.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah it's in the room you would do it
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: all be again on the whiteboard And it would be very, very,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: very detailed. We would even put dialogue, like good lines
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: of dialogue. We'd go on the whiteboard. Sometimes there's no room.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: You'd put it in the writer's assistant. Okay. I would
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: never call that writing like the episode, you know, but
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: that would be very, very close to, would be pretty
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: close to an outline by the time you got through.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And that's, and that's what Amy and Dan need. They
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: need that outline. And then they, then they go at
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it with their dialogue.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Either that or like one of the other writers would
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: do the first draft, would do a draft and then
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Amy or Dan would do a pass on the draft.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: And that process could take two weeks probably.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Oh really? Okay. Yeah. All right. Interesting. And is it,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: are you ever, so you're doing, are you ever doing
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: multiple episodes on that whiteboard? No. Arcs? Just, it's all
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: one at a time?
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have a board, you have an arc
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: board typically.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Right. Gotcha.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: And then you have the episode that you're working on
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: right in front of you.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: How many hours are you putting in every day?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: You know, we'd work 10 to, like, we'd take a
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: break at 1, you know? I'd come down, I'd visit
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you and set, check in, make sure Scott was okay.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And then we'd come back at, like, 1.45, and we'd
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: work typically till 5.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Was I okay?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: You always seemed like you had a lot going on.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I was always interrupting your poetry writing and your...
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: But then we'd usually, I mean, Gilmore Girls had... historically
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: amazing hours for the writers. You know, you would work
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: until we'd really wrap around five, maybe five 30, you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: we rarely got dinner. I think we got dinner twice
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: in the four years that I was there.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: There were other shows. I remember in the building there
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and they would be like watching us leave at five 30.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And those poor bastards were in there till like midnight
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: every night.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Awful.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Anyway. Yeah, it was good.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: John.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: It was also tough. It was also tough. It was
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: also like high attrition among the writers, you know?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of turnover.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Very demanding. Yeah. Yeah, it was a demanding show. It
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: was a tough show. Everybody worked really hard. I mean,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: top to bottom. But boy, I sure do miss it,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Sure do miss it. What a great group that was.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Such a talented, hardworking, driven group. you know, everybody wanted
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: to be great. Everybody's trying to make like this great
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: little gems of episodes, you know, it's just, it was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: very not.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I was thinking that the other day, this guy's a
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: long lines of what you're saying. One of my memories
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: that came back to me was late at night. One
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: night we were shooting out in front of Luke's and
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I was on set just watching. And it was a
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: scene between you and Lauren. And it was like a
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: very Lauren was a Laurel. I was super emotional and seeing,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: you know, and, all these emotions and Luke was very
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: stoic and kind of like holding the space for her,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: you know? i really went there it was amazing yeah
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: and after they took cut you came back over to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: video village and you're like wow like that was those
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: are fucking chops and you're like and she was good
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: too your delivery was so good.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: But I mean, it's like, you know, that's part of
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the job. It's like you have to give her her room,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: her space to do her thing.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Because if she doesn't feel secure, it's going to be
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: harder for her to do that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So much harder.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: It's impossible.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: You know, when you feel the relationship, when you feel
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the energy bond between the actors, you understand why they
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: can get to the places they need to get to
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: because they feel supported. And when that is missing, you're like, oh,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: we're always going to be at 75%, 80% otherwise.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Yep. It's palpable. Yeah, it really is. John, I could
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: talk to you all day. Please come back. We've got
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to run. So appreciate your insights and all the best
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: on your new show. And everybody, and Suzanne, thank you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: again for coming. And always a joy. And you're always
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: welcome to co-host with me. I know you're busy. You
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: have a huge schedule. You're off to Monaco, your summer home,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and you're still going back and forth on the yacht
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and all that.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why my internet is so bad today, floating
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: around on my yacht in the Mediterranean.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: How was the Grand Prix? Was it entertaining? Was it
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: fun this year again? Anyway, best to you and John.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Best fans on the planet, keep those cards and letters coming.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Remember where you lead. We will follow. Stay safe, everyone. Hey, everybody,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: don't forget, follow us on Instagram at I Am All
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: In Podcast and email us at gilmore at iheartradio.com.