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Chasing Dark Skies with Mike Dalley · The Drive Straya Podcast

0:06
SPEAKER_01: Crank the tunes and chase the horizon from one end of this ridiculously beautiful country to the other.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Tony George.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: And if you're new here, well, here's the deal.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: This is a podcast about what we all love the most.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: That is Drive Australia.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: We're going to get under the bonnet of Australia's drive market, take the engine apart, explore what makes it tick, and even shampoo the mud flaps and chat with the people and personalities who bring Australia's road trip experiences to life.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: From iconic drives and hidden gems to great places to stay and things to see and do, we'll share epic insider tips and a stack of stories and adventures from the road.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Plus, we'll bring you inspiration and help guide you towards making your next Drive Australia road trip one to remember.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: And today's guests, well, they're an absolute river.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: This episode of Drive Australia Podcast, we're heading somewhere a little different, not just across Australia, but right out into that night sky.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Because our guest is the co-founder and managing director of Astrology, a Queensland-based business operating at the fascinating intersection of astronomy, tourism, technology, culture, and storytelling.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: And when you hear where his career has taken him, you quickly realize this is anything but a conventional career path.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: He believes Australia's regional communities are sitting on an extraordinary tourism asset, something that doesn't need to be manufactured, built, or imported, and that is dark skies.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Queenslanders now recognize dark sky tourism as part of its official tourism strategy.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And Mike's vision is about regional communities collaborating to turn that natural resource into sustainable tourism and economic opportunity.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: So whether you're driving right now or stuck at a desk, dreaming of your next escape, or genuinely planning on doing a lap of this great country, pull up a chair, get comfy in that car seat of yours because this chat, it is going to be a cracker.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Right now, it is a very big Drive Straya.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to you, the man, the enigma that is Mike Daly.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Mate, thanks so much for joining us.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Not a problem.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Great to be on live and talking with you and everyone else, Tony.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's great to be with you, Mike.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Right, eh, let's get into it, mate.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Now, look, right from the jump, for people who've never heard the term astrology, what is it and how do you explain what you do at astronomy?
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, so my company is kind of a combination between astronomy and astrology, and which I know is not a normal combination, but I always look at astrology and astronomy being two different sides of the same coin.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: The coin, of course, being the night sky and the universe beyond the night sky.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: And what we actually do is help uh organizations, whether it's a private resort, uh local government, state government.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, so my job and my company's job is to help try and uh get people into astro tourism, whether it's the building planetarians, observatories, or just developing little um simple astro um night sky tour, photography tours.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Um so we we kind of do a real big mix of everything from in the field to helping write strategies to you know actually creating apps and software for planetariums itself.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we do we do a fair bit of different things.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Well mate, look, it it sounds uh there sounds a lot to it, and we're going to get to that, but I'll tell you what, looking back, uh I noticed that you'd started working your working life in outdoor education, you were rock climbing, canoeing, camping, hiking with people.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: How did that seemingly unrelated career eventually lead you into astronomy?
4:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess it comes down to the fact that we were camping throughout the week, uh so overnight camping, and a lot of other instructors would do games uh where you know after a long day, including with predominantly teenagers, um, they're they're kind of tired at the end of the day.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So instead of doing games, I decided that no, you know what, guys, let's just sit around and look up and talk about what's actually above us.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: And I was lucky I grew up uh looking at the stars.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: My mum loves the stars more than what I do.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: I know more about the stars than what she does, but she definitely loves them even more than what I do.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: You know that uh well it's quite funny because she uses robots with me and go, Yeah, well, we're allowed to look at them in different ways.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: So, and that's actually a real pillar when it comes to outdoor, um, any outdoor, but especially astro tourism and outreach, we've got to keep mindful that everyone looks at them a little bit different and and that's okay.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and how special that would have been sharing with your mum early on as well.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Look, I'm wondering as well, um, looking back, I mean, you studied uh postgraduate astronomy.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: Um what was it like going back into serious study after being out in those open spaces for a while?
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, being an older one is uh an older student is always a little bit interesting, but the difference is I took university, so all the astrophysics postgrad, uh, it was a lot more serious.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: I was more serious, and my mindset was different.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I found what I wanted to do, and getting into that university later on uh allowed me to do that.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: So I I guess from my point of view, it was interesting, the social dynamics, but for me personally, it was really driven, um exciting to be honest with you.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: And I never thought I would be saying that I thought physics formulas are exciting, and they are exciting, and you know, one of my worst days off actually it's funny, it's my worst day, but it's also my best day.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, I literally woke up and I had no classes or anything.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I woke up and I decided that I wanted to actually work out how long it would take a photon of light, so a little packet of light to go from the center of the sun just to the surface, and it's a whole random walk principle.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: I won't get into it um because it's too much.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I didn't know how to work it out.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: So I emailed um my lecturer, and he was thankfully really good and got back to me and was like, Oh, look, you know, we we've got computers to work this stuff out.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: And no one would do it manually, that's just crazy.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Oh, I want to do it anyhow.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: So I got into it, and by the time I finished, I emailed him back uh that night and said, Can you have a look at this?
7:28
SPEAKER_02: And he got back to me and was like, I don't know why you did that, that's crazy, but yes, you are correct.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, and when I got the answer, that was my whole body collapsing in at that point because I realized that I woke up and it was 7 a.m.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: when I started that journey.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: By the time I finished, it was 8 p.m.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: I hadn't gone to the bathroom, I hadn't eaten, I hadn't drank any water.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: So I literally got up in this state, walked over to my bathroom, vomited everywhere, and then walked in my bedroom and passed out.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: And it was for that reason the worst, but still the best day because I did it.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, yeah.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh what can I say?
8:07
SPEAKER_02: It's a nerdy day off.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: I think I think that is the greatest story of commitment I think I've ever heard, Mike.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: That was extraordinary, mate.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Look, between you just get into it.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you get fully into it, my good man.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: All right, so between 2010 and 2016, you began as the resident star talker and lead astronomer at Ears Rock Resort in the Australian Outpack.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk me through how you found yourself there and just some of your experiences of that time?
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Um how I found myself there.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: I I guess I was still doing the outdoor education at Up Point and you know, being with the kids at night or the teenagers, the young adults, uh, teaching them what I knew about the stars.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I guess I just thought that, you know, where I was in Renloaf Bay, this sky is amazing.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I want to see really, really good skies, and I want to get paid to do what I love.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, who who doesn't want to get paid to do what they love out there?
9:12
SPEAKER_02: So I I was looking around and I saw this opportunity going out at Uluru, and I'm like, yes, I'll go for it.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: And it is one, even now, it is still one of the most special places dear to my heart.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, the people out there are amazing, the locals out there are great.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the whole place is just beautiful, but that sky out there is hands down.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: Um still, I know I'm biased, and you know, it's the heart of our country, and I'm a crowd of screen.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: So I am biased, I know that, but at the same time, the it out there is breathtaking.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's just you know, it's kind of funny.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: It's one of those moments where users literally lay down, look up, and realize how small we are.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very true, mate.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: And look, I'm sure our listeners at Drive Straya uh absolutely echo those because anybody that's been in that region around Uluru, it it you take it away with you in your heart and it never leaves you.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: And I totally agree with you there, Mike.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Look, uh I've heard over the years also lots of reasons for people for why they they do the things that they do.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Mike, you have the most remarkable story of why you love what you do from a couple who while you were working at Uluru.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Can you share with us what happened?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, um, I'll try and do it without actually getting too emotional about this.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's probably the the easiest um uh story I can share out of all of them.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: So this couple wanted to see a particular star that they named because they have this thing where people can, you know, pay money and and name a star.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, unfortunately, it normally is not a big bright star, it's uh a fainter star.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Um but but they get all the information about the star when they when they name it.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: So they wanted to see this particular star, and I worked it out that yeah, you know, we can see it, but it's winter time, it'll be you know early in the morning.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Um you can do it, but it'll cost because it's a private type thing.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: I've got to set up everything and all the rest of it.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: So we did that, they said yes, and and off we went.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And I I've got this plan.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: You know how when you plan things, it never goes to plan.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm driving them out there, and I'm thinking, well, I'm thinking, yeah, great.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: I what I'll do is I'll start with Saturn and I will literally leave their star to the end.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: That's that's how we'll wrap up, you know.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: And when I'm driving out there, I got this feeling that no, they wanted to see that star.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, so we get out there, I've changed the telescope, I show them which one it is because it's not the only star in there, you know, there's other background stars and stuff as well, so I have to point out exactly which one it was.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: Yep, and then you know, the the wife had to look first and she starts crying, and and like I'm talking like full-on waterfalls, and I'm I'm now freaking going, What?
12:12
SPEAKER_02: What's going on here?
12:13
SPEAKER_02: And I'd start walking away because I'm like, whatever's happening does not involve me at this point, and I'm just moving away.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: And then she keeps going and finally gets up and hugs the husband.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, they talk a little bit.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: I can't hear him because they're talking low, and I'm I'm moved far enough away now.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: And then he has a look, he starts crying, and and they they were like that for about 10-15 minutes.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Anyhow, they called out to me, and at this time I was like hiding in the bush because I'm like, this is you know their thing, not my thing.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: And they called my name, and I got up and I'm like, I'm here, guys, I'm here.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: What what do you need right now?
12:49
SPEAKER_02: How can I help you?
12:50
SPEAKER_02: And they've said, Can we go back to the room?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, not a problem, let's let's go.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we load up in the car and and off we go.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: And as we're driving back, they said to me um that they're very thankful because they named that star after their young daughter that had passed away.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: And uh that was two years ago, and in that two-year period, they went to different star tours, they went to different places, um, connected with actually looking at the stars, and no one was able to show them that.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, and when yeah, yeah, that's all right, mate.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Mate, that must have been incredibly powerful.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: But I think it was helpful, I would imagine, as well for the couple.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I think it brought them a little bit of um closure that they still were carrying around with them, if that's the best way I can kind of put it.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, so but yeah, it it it's that was the moment where my brain kicked over from going, you know, it's the same standard question I get asked.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: What what what got you into it or or you know, like what what made you do astronomy?
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Like what's this thing about?
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah um, but no one ever asked me why do you keep going?
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Like that's the thing.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've been doing this for years.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say because I I'll feel old, uh, but you know, I've been doing it for a long time, yeah.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of crazy because if I was doing it for the reasons I got into it, I wouldn't be doing it now.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I would have lost my love, I would have lost my passion, I would have lost my interest.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's these things that understanding my job as an astro guide when I'm out in the field or even when I'm being asked to go into classrooms and stuff and do some teaching.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: My job is really, really simple.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's extremely hard, but when you break it down, the fundamental of my role is simple.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: It is to help people connect to the stars and the universe in the way they need to be connected.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's and look, thanks so much for sharing that story too.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: I can I can hear it, hear it still deeply in your chest, mate.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Look, uh after spending six years managing the program there at Airs Rock Resort, you applied for the coveted position with the luxury resort operator in the Moldives.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Sineva, have I got that pronunciation correct?
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Sineva.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Beating out a physicist and a NASA staffer to land the role.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Mike, I ask you, what was better?
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Knowing you were heading to the exclusive Moldives to work or beating a physicist and a NASA staffer for the role.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna be very careful in what I say because you never know who's listening.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but for me, it would, and I know this sounds really, really bad, but for me it would have to be the actual location.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, definitely location based when it comes to dark sky.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh, as far as beating out the the competition, um uh you know what?
16:07
SPEAKER_02: There's I've got friends that are astrophysicists, professors, researchers across Australia and in other countries as well.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: And I'll be the first one to say they are all smarter than what I am.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: They are all smarter than what I am.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: But you put us in front of a group of year fives, I can guarantee the kids are gonna have more fun with me because I'm not going to, you know, be so stringent on using big words and everything like that.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: And that's what the resort was looking for.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: So I don't feel like I really beat them because they're all smarter than me.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I just have this ability to translate what they research and what they already know.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: I only know a little bit of what they do, but I can translate, you know, they can bring out and they do, they they flick over a scientific research paper that they're working on, and they're like, hey, have a look at this, and like read it, and then I get back to them and I'm like, oh, this is cool.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, a lot of my friends are like, you you don't have to give it back to me so dumbed down because you know it's a full-on scientific journal article.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, yeah, but why would I have to use big words?
17:14
SPEAKER_02: I can just talk normally.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: And uh some of them, yeah, yeah, and some of them are like, yeah, no, that's not what we do, PhD, and spend all the time at university floor.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, but I deal with the public, man.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, I need to be out talk normal.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: And I always put it down to my mum.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, it's funny because anything I write or anything I want to bring out to the public, um, translating a paper or whatever it may be, I always call my mum.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: And mum, hey, do you understand this?
17:43
SPEAKER_02: And and she'll be like, nope.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, I'll try and figure out another way to do it.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Because, like I said at the beginning, I know more about her stuff than what my mum does, but she's got a passion for it.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, so if I can do it in a way that she understands, then I figure, you know, most people will understand as well.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm yeah, I'll be careful on what I say that because if she was listening, she'd be like, What are you saying I'm dumb or something?
18:09
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not saying that, Mum.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: I promise I'm not saying that.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, no, mum's had that magical ability just to cut through the uh the you know what, don't they?
18:18
SPEAKER_01: Well done.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, working there, I mean, uh, in my research for this interview, I did have a look online at the resorts that we're talking about.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is the most beautiful and luxurious resorts on the planet.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell me any stories or you know, uh how you spent your days there?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: We got a fair idea how you spend your nights, but what about the days there as well?
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so when I get into this, my friends normally just cringe and want to slap me across the head, honestly, because I literally woke up um and from that point I would go have breakfast and then I would walk along the beach or I would go snorkeling.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you know, in the middle of the day I would slowly start work and and go in and just, you know, working, doing what I do, it's not only the presentation skills, but it's the knowledge.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: So we've spent a lot of hours, and I I don't think a lot of people understand this, but when you're an astro guide, uh you know, it it would be different if I was being the guide about a particular thing that never changes.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I could learn that information and I could just go with it.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but the sky constantly changes.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And anyone on the road right now, when you're looking at the sky and you go to different locations, or you're looking at the sky at different hours, it could be in the morning before you're setting out, it could be at night, it could be later at night when you're coming back from the pub, you know, supporting the local pubs and stuff.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Um the sky changes, the sky changes.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: So and everything, and the the problem is the sky doesn't change, but our understanding does because you know, or like my friends and stuff doing research, they're always finding new things, or they're just rediscovering things, or they're tweaking what we already know.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: So uh it's my job that I have to constantly do that.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: So in the around lunchtime, I'd get some lunch and I'd go get you know my computer and sit down and just start having a look at everything.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I would actually start to train the staff going through different things as well.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: I would start programming because the resort's always about well, what else can we do?
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Let's push the limits.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Because from a company's point of view, and I don't think a lot of people understand this, and hopefully, operators, especially in Outback Australia, um, start to understand this that astro tourism is such a beautiful niche um uh part of the tourism industry.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: It uses a free resource, but the good thing about it, if you do it and if you do it right, it makes you different to your competitors, so it gives you that edge.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and like I said, it's a free resource.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's what the resort said to me, you know, do this, and then at night time I would go and hang out with really cool, amazing people and teach them about the night sky.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, snorkeling in the morning to looking at the stars at night.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: That was my day.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh mate, that's a tough, a tough gig, but someone's got to do it, my friend.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Someone's gonna do it.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Mike, I in as I said before, in my research with you, I came across one of the great quotes for a drive show like I'm hosting at the moment, that's come from you, and that is that science, tourism, and hospitality naturally go hand in hand because people on holiday are more open to learning.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think travel makes people more curious?
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's because when you're on the road and you're going to different places, you uh uh automatically have more of an open mind because you want to experience the different things.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think To really experience something, you need to understand it.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: That's why storytelling is really, really good because it's education through an interesting type way.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that's why when we're traveling into the outback of you know Queensland or Australia, it very much comes down to the open-mindedness, the willingness to listen to stories, and in doing so, you're learning at the same time.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: So I think it's more of a byproduct.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone goes on holiday, unless you're, you know, a nerd like me, but you don't really go on holidays going, I'm gonna learn about that.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: It's I'm going to experience that place.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to experience the people, I'm going to learn from the people, I'm going to experience the land.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to learn from the land.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: So I think that learning is just an inherent built-in tree of experiencing the open road, you know?
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure so many of our listeners on the road right now uh share a similar story that you do you do learn from adventure.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: It's very true and experience.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Mate, uh, after the Moldives came a remarkable change from you uh from luxury resorts to Charleville in outback Queensland.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Now, why Charleville and what was your vision when you started there?
23:19
SPEAKER_02: The Cosmos Center.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: If anyone's on the road and you're going through Charleville, definitely call into the Cosmos Center.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, we put a lot of work into it while I was there.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: We built uh one of Queensland's largest planetariums out there.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Um and and it's really interesting because it's actually owned by Moi Shire Council, so uh it's really nice to see a local government doing things.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: I actually wrote an article.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't think every council out there has to be that hands-on.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I think empowering the private operators is a is a really good way to go, but it's just happened that they actually own the um Cosmos Center.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we got a eight for the nerdy Astro people listening, uh, there is an eight-inch, or well, I was there that we got an eight-inch hydrogen alpha telescope.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: What this means is it's eight inch in diameter, and it's a telescope that is used to look at the solar flares on the sun.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: If you go any bigger, you're going to uh university, and as far as all my research and when I was talking to the seller, um uh what at the moment, anyhow, it only seems like there's three of them in Australia.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that that's a really big thing.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: And then we have a 30-inch Dobsonion, which is a huge cannon of a telescope.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Then we have the four in the big observatory.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, we had uh cultural um tours as well going through.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh we had the daytime interactive, and and it was really amazing.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: We I don't know if it's still operational, but we actually had a life-size hologram and myself answering questions uh for people.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: So many people can say that they've had that done, Mike.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: That's extraordinary.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm pretty sure they turned it off as soon as I left, but uh I'd be like I'm sick of his voice right about now.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: So you're a good house or yeah, they they had me in a wig and everything, so which helped because you know I'm losing my hair.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: So oh well, mate.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, not many of us can say that that that's happened to us in life.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean the um the dome itself is uh 15 meters across, I believe.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, about that.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 14 or 15, I forget which, but yeah, it's it's huge.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you walk into this thing and you're like, what uh um and the movies that they play, you know, the the whole star program and everything they've got out there is pretty awesome.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh and I know they use it and I know they have a lot of fun.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: And the best thing about it is, you know, that Cosmos Center is one of those things that if people are on the road and you're going to charge all and you want to see the stars, you want to learn about the stars, at least if the observatory cancels, they might still be able to do something in the planetarium and still go through the Outback night sky with you.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: So I I I love that.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: I I love the fact that the stars, you don't actually need to see the stars to still learn about the stars and fall in love with the stars and more than stars.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: What else is out there?
26:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, the other planets, the black holes, neutron stars, you know, like everything you can just fall in love.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: The nebulae, you can look at the gas clouds out there, it is spectacularly beautiful.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, they're the birthplace of stars.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: It is, it is truly amazing.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: So I love the Cosmos Center.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: When I was moving out there, my brain was very much, you know, this is a facility that could be doing teaching people what I love and helping them experience what I love all the time, yeah, whether it's cloudy or not.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: And I I I love that.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep, and it's such magnificent country out there as well.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Hello to all of our charlible listeners.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you what, the other thing about that cosmic this Cosmos Center is I reckon it's got the coolest address on the planet, one Milky Way Charlevel.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: That is that is the coolest address I've ever come across.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Mike I must meet it's a cool location as well.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: You must have such a great time out there, mate.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Also, um look, having having a read of papers and things, and it is quite topical at the moment, um I was interested to find that astro tourism, uh, traveling for the skies wonders has soared in recent years right around the world.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, for example, stargazing in the Grand Canyon uh in the US is among its most popular programming now and a lucrative one for them.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Analysts predict the global nighttime tourism market worldwide now around 10 billion, could double by 2035, plus that one quarter of Gen Z travellers are interested in astroturism.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Lots of TikToks out there, as I uh discovered on the weekend.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Now, look, even the Queensland government has now added dark sky ecotourism as part of their destination 2045 plan.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: And then in September 2026, Undara, which is about three hours west of Cairns, uh, were voted or named Queensland's top dark sky destination.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Now, if there was a small town like Charlival or any region listening to this podcast, Mike, and they said to you, we want to have a crack at this, what would be some of the things that you'd tell them that were really important to do?
28:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay, um, first off, there's really two ways to um kind of look at this.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: So I would say to them, start small and work your way up.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Don't shoot for the stars straight away.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: I know.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's nice, but yeah, yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, just keep it manageable.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: You don't need to go to the full extreme.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh you want to start at a there is a basic level that you do want to kind of start at, and there's different levels for different ways, but you've kind of got to work out are you doing more of a cultural thing?
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Are you going to do more of a science type based?
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Are you going to do um photography?
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, because then you, you know, taking a photo of the night sky, everyone thinks it's about the night sky, but honestly, it what's on the ground is just as important as the night sky because you need to have the icons, you need to have, you know, I it taking a photo of the night sky straight up, I can go, oh, look at the photo, and they can go, wow, that's amazing.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: Where were you?
29:45
SPEAKER_02: There is no way to prove where I was.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, so unless you look at the metadata, of course, but there's this is no way showing people, so you need the icons.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: So you've got to set this stuff up.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: So I I would say to every operator, you know, in region uh in the outback, um, you you really need to just don't don't rush into it, plan it out properly, get the training right because training you guys are going to be just as important as your infrastructure, as the light management plan.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: I know everyone talks about dark sky accreditation.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: What a lot of people don't understand is to get a dark sky accreditation, you it's a two to three year process.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: It is not a fast process, so it takes time.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: So you need to be building it while you're doing something like that if you wanted to go down that road.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: The the most important thing I would tell everyone straight, straight out, you know, especially if it's a small town, I would say to them straight, uh, who else is doing this?
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh what other towns around you are doing this because you don't want to compete.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: People I I think people don't understand that you're looking at the same canvas.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but if you look at the same canvas and you have the same stories, you're not going to attract people to stay longer.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: You're not going to attract people to explore more of the region.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: Where if you actually work together and make little trails and get people to do different things, so focusing on different areas of the night sky, different aspects to it.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's how you would go about.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm really, really hoping um, you know, the state government for Queensland in particular uh start to actually look go, you know what, we need to actually build a branch of state tourism that looks after Astro and helps operators do it, but actually do it in a way where we can create an astro trail uh instead of just letting it go wildfire and everyone starts copying each other.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you know, if you're learning about a story, let's say Scorpio the constellation, I can guarantee if you're you've got a hotel, I've got a hotel, and we're like, all right, we're both getting a telescope, we're both gonna compete, I can guarantee we're gonna Google the story of Scorpio and we'll end up saying the same thing.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: So if I was a visitor going through and I stayed, let's say I stayed in my town and you move they went to my hotel and heard mine, then they go to the next town where your hotel is and they get the exact same thing, they're not gonna be happy.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: So I think for astro tourism, the state government in particular has a beautiful opportunity right now.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: We do have some astro tourism in place, but if the state government really stepped in and said, look, we're we're going to help everyone map this properly because they can look at a holistic approach instead of just an individual location, they need to stay at that holistic level, that upper level, see map everything, and then help operators in certain locations go, okay, you want to do this?
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Have you thought about this?
32:50
SPEAKER_02: No one's doing this in that area, so why don't you do this and empower them through that way?
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Look, um, how important is storytelling through developing that the most crucial part of it, and that's not just for astro tourism.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: I truly believe that's for every tourism.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: If you have story that makes it.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: If you don't have story, that no one's going to enjoy that experience.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: I've I've traveled the world, I've done this, I I know you need to have those stories.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm not just talking about stories, uh, you know, it's kind of funny because you can say a story about a constellation, for example, but you know, if you add another story within that story, so let's say it's, oh guys, if you didn't know my birthday is actually coming up, um, I'm Scorpio, so I'm gonna tell you about Scorpio.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: I go through that, and then at the end of it, you know, so my birthday is this particular day, and I accept money or gifts, whatever you prefer, give it to me at the end of the night.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, people start laughing, they think it's a great time.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: It just adds that whole story is what builds tourism.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, most definitely.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Look, uh the other thing that I'm really interested in is Indigenous Australians have extraordinarily rich traditions and knowledge connected to the night sky.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: How important is it that astroturism doesn't simply tell the Western scientific story of the universe?
34:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so cru like 100% crucial.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: It it must happen.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: There, there's no ifs-buts about it.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Um absolutely uh especially those stories that are not written down anywhere.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: I think to me, they're the stories because I know stories being traveling around Australia.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: I've got told stories from elders that I'm not allowed to share, and I respect that, so I I won't share those stories.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but they're also not written down anywhere.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I know that over time the risk is there that that knowledge will will go, and it it pa it's so painful um to know that this could effectively happen in the future.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think yeah, if if there's any, you know, communities out there, indigenous communities out there, uh, First Nations groups that want to get into astro tourism, I I truly believe that yes, this is so vital, it is so crucial, it is important, and and it must, you know, that knowledge must be protected.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Yep, totally agree, mate.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: But you've gone from Brisbane to outdoor education to the Australian Outback to luxury resorts in the mold dives.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, an extraordinary story, uh, and building extraordinary tourism experiences and now astronomy.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: When you look back at your journey, do you think that you created your career career, or did you simply keep following the opportunities until the universe unfolded the way it was supposed to?
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Both is a combination for me, uh, and this is only a personal thing, uh, is a combination of both.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: I think the I always say the universe unfolds the way it should, and and that's what I truly, truly believe.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: The thing is, the universe will unfold in a way where it will give me options, and then it's up to me to choose what I end up doing.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it will always put an opportunity in front of me, and whether I'm smart enough to actually realize that's an opportunity uh or brave enough to take the opportunity, um, that then that comes down to me.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: So it's a combination.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: For me, it's a combination of both.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Mate, we're starting to uh shift through the gears towards the end of our time, but I'll tell you what, it is part of the show where I ask questions about a guest that no one knows about.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: Now, normally, normally, I when interviewing in the studio, that I offer them a Tim Tam if their answer is very good.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Mike, I promise you I will fax you a Tim Tam if your answers are very good.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Are you okay with this, my friend?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep, go for it.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: You go, all right.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm talking some deep, deep research into you, Mike Daly, and I think I've found two little tasty morsels of information that not many people know about you.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Are you ready?
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all right, do it.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: I put to you, Mike Daly, that number one, you were once named and highlighted through Facebook worldwide by American actor Will Smith.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that's true.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: Is yeah, yeah, it it's it's funny.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, well, normally with clients, um, especially for high-end resorts, they get a lot of, of course, high-end people.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's always a NDA non-disclosure agreement that has them to sign and adhere to and follow to, and also respected as well.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I have uh interactions with a lot of people on on that realm from that realm.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: Um and I had an NDA obviously with Will Smith as well, and then he um put my name on his Facebook and and said that we've been spending time and stuff.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: And it was funny, I didn't even know uh until I got uh literally a phone call from my mum when I was in the Nelbies going, Have you been hanging out with Will Smith?
38:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Oh wait, what?
38:31
SPEAKER_02: How do you know this?
38:33
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, Oh, it's in the paper.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, what it's in the paper, what?
38:38
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, Yeah, it's in the local paper in in Queensland.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Well, okay, that shouldn't be there.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we found out that yeah, it's linked with the Facebook stuff.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: And I know a lot of people at this point, uh, it's it's kind of funny because Will is the technically the only one now I can talk about because the NDA doesn't matter, yeah.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I know it these recent stuff, um, but he's actually a really, really genuine, nice, beautiful, smart man.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah um, he is just yeah, I had so much fun.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: He is so smart.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and this is really down to earth.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know what happened uh in the you know most recent things, but um, yeah, he him as a person is just so amazing.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: I I honestly could spend so like you know, more time with him, absolutely.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh and it was cool because we we were talking about not only science, but we were talking about culture, we were talking about personal beliefs, you know, everything was more or less on the table.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was really interesting.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, yeah, that is true, and yeah, the only one I can talk about.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: And so it's probably the hardest part of my career is actually knowing, um, especially when I'm sitting there watching a movie, and I could be with my family and my friends, and I'm looking at these people in these movies going, yeah, I know exactly how they are.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I can't say anything.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's it's very interesting.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow, what a great story.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: All right, I'll put to you, Mike Daly.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Number two morsel of information is is it true that your next move is at the personal request from the king of Bhutan and you're moving to Bhutan to create the dark sky tourism?
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
40:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, well, yes and no, in a way.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: So I got asked to go to Bhutan a couple of years ago, and I've been there multiple times flying back and forth um since, and I got asked to help them develop astro tourism because they don't have astronomy, they have astrology, but not astronomy, they're a Buddhist um country.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, and while I was over there, um actually around this time last year, uh, was at the Royal Highland Festival, and I was uh fortunate enough to have coffee uh with the king and queen.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was just the three of us, and we were going through a whole heap of things, and he he made a comment uh that they would like infrastructure um for astro tourism and and you know to to really build it and stuff, and I said, Well, I can help you with that.
41:16
SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, why do you think we're talking?
41:18
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, cool.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: And then I walked down and let everyone know, because I answered to three different government agencies while I'm there, and I I let them know, and um, they're all looking at me going, You you do realize you've got a king's order, right?
41:35
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh, wait, is that what was really?
41:39
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Yeah.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh, okay, cool.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: We got a lot of work to do in front of us for this people.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, yeah.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: So what upcoming, fantastic mate.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Look, uh, before we wrap up, we do have three questions for you that we do ask all of our guests.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: But are you ready for a start?
41:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: All right, this is the this is the incentive.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Each one, if the answer is very good and it will be scrutinized with intense group, Mike, you would we will be faxing each Tim Tam through to you by the end of the program.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: All right, question number one other than your own backyard being Australia, what's your favorite Aussie destination and what makes it so special?
42:28
SPEAKER_02: So within Australia, um I would say uh look, my favorite destination is Uluru um or the Devil's Marbles.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Any anywhere in the central Australia is is you know that red sand and those dunes, um, there is something like alien world type thing to it, and I I love that.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love it.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful, beautiful answer.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: One Tim Tim down.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: Number two.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Remember, this is no ordinary biscuit either, the Tim Tim.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: This is the people's biscuit, Mike.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Number two.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: What Aussie destination is still sitting at the top of your bucket list.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Probably Rotnes Islands.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, yeah, Roddy.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I'd I've been very fortunate.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: I've seen pretty much every Australian animal, native animal, um, out there, you know, especially the unique ones.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the whole quakka type thing, I wouldn't mind getting over to that side to to have a look at.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: And I I got this really, really crazy idea.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: I would love to get a quakka if it if it's okay not moving too much, but I would love to get a quakka.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: My camera lay down in front of it and get the Milky Way with a quakka.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: And so easy to get to from Perth, too.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, really hello to anybody sitting on Roddy listening to this podcast.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: All right, number three, here we go.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Every great road trip.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Mike needs a soundtrack.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: What on your Spotify playlist?
44:09
SPEAKER_01: What would be your ultimate road trip song?
44:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh well, at the beginning to get the road trip going, it would have to be Akadaka.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, thunderstruck.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's just like you know, uh yeah.
44:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it sits the bar.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: Like it sets the entire drive from that point on.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So true.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: So true.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: That's a beautiful answer, my God.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: I like you.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: All right, Mike, it has been an absolute delight to talk with you today and learn a little more of yourself and the wonders that Astro Tourism provides.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Mate, thanks so much.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Tony.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: And don't forget, just go out and have a look up.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: And for all the listeners, when you're on that road, just yeah, call into a little town and stay there tonight and just check out how dark and beautiful our sky truly is.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Great words, Mike.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you what, if you're thinking or planning to get into astronomy, go to the website www.astrolomy.space, where you're going to find lots of details on it.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Many thanks to you all today for joining us on the Drive Australia podcast, where we share epic tips from epic Australian road trips.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Join us again next episode as we get back under that bonnet of Australia's Drive Market and Chat with another great guest helping to make Aussie road trips even more memorable.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow us on our socials also and keep an eye out for the next episode of the Drive Australia podcast.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm Tony George.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Safe travels, everyone, and we'll catch you again just down the road.