Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Furniture | Hlynur Atlason | S6 E5

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Future of Furniture | Hlynur Atlason | S6 E5 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:06:03 - 00:00:34:08 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Future of XYZ. This week we are speaking about the future of furniture. It's yet another big topic. Our theme for season six seems to be big topics. And with us is industrial designer and Cooper Hewitt Designer awardee, Hlynur Atlason. Thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ. 00:00:34:10 - 00:00:36:10 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me. 00:00:36:12 - 00:01:15:16 Speaker 1 Well, we met because you have an award winning design studio based in New York City that does furniture, largely furniture for places like Design within Reach, and Herman Miller, and Heller. Your studio also does other projects, packaging for, you know, Procter & Gamble, Stella Artois. You do, you know, HomeGoods for the MoMA Design Store. You guys are kind of multidisciplinary, but furniture seems to me your core base and you've also joined us as an iF Design award juror, which is last year and this year, which is pretty exciting. 00:01:15:18 - 00:01:20:02 Speaker 1 But I see you as a furniture designer. Do you see yourself as a furniture designer? 00:01:20:04 - 00:01:34:20 Speaker 2 It's always been an aspiration. I think furniture is a lot of fun. I think for a designer it’s a dream, for that matter. And so getting to design more furniture is definitely something we've been working towards and really enjoying. 00:01:34:22 - 00:01:58:19 Speaker 1 So in the context, I mean, you have you're very humble. People may wonder also where your name is from. You're from Reykjavik, Iceland. You've lived in Copenhagen, you've lived in Paris, but you've been in New York since you came back to do your BFA at Parsons in Industrial Design. You started your studio soon after. With all of this context and in that experience base. 00:01:59:00 - 00:02:07:11 Speaker 1 For the purpose of today's conversation, I always like to ground in like, what is furniture in the context of this conversation? 00:02:07:13 - 00:02:24:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's interesting sort of the way that it was introduced to me or sort of the name, sort of the Italian name is mobilia. It means something that you can move around, sort of something that's not fixed in the built environment. I like to think about it a little more sort of in the context of what it's for. 00:02:24:07 - 00:02:50:07 Speaker 2 Right. And so I think it's kind of funny or very elemental that we're sort of positioning things in space, right, where a nice chair is ultimately suspending a human body in space with comfort and grace, hopefully, or the way we put our food at the right position in front of us on a table. You know, we're sort of finding the elements a little bit, which is, I think I found interesting or a good starting point, at least. 00:02:50:13 - 00:03:23:03 Speaker 1 I love the definition of it as the Italian word mobilia. I've never thought about that, which is, of course, like just making it moveable, as you say. It contextualizes this quite well, although, of course, as you've just described, it's broader. It is broader. I mean, furniture has all of these applications for one thing, it's residential, it's office, it's outdoors, it's public space, it’s hospitality, it's healthcare, it's governmental. Furniture, has all these applications. 00:03:24:10 - 00:03:37:16 Speaker 1 Some of these are public and some of these are private. Some of them are kind of combo, like, what's the red thread that you see across furniture in those ways other than the fact that it's mobile? 00:03:37:18 - 00:03:58:13 Speaker 2 Humans. It's very interesting, we move from one space to the other, like the same person with the same taste and references and life history and all this. But all of a sudden, like in this environment, you’re supposed to sit like in a metal box and work really hard in the other. You know what I mean? You're supposed to have sort of beauty and comfort, and I see this all merging more or less. 00:03:58:14 - 00:04:31:21 Speaker 2 So we're even seeing like outdoor furniture becoming more loungey. Office is a little bit more residential looking and so on. And I think these barriers aren't quite as obvious as they used to. I think definitely in use cases, like, there’s obviously different requirements for outdoor furniture or something in the public space. But I think sort of if we go back to like sitting with your body suspended you know with comfort and grace. Shouldn't that apply sort of universally? Or in my mind it should or we should strive towards that as much as possible. 00:04:31:21 - 00:04:38:16 Speaker 2 Whether we're sitting in a hospital waiting room or at work or at home for that matter. 00:04:38:18 - 00:04:47:14 Speaker 1 It’s fascinating. So they're kind of being developed, historically, they've been very different, and now they're kind of like in parallel and maybe even converging to a certain degree. 00:04:47:16 - 00:05:13:09 Speaker 2 No, absolutely. I mean, see, there's a lot sort of pre-COVID. There was a bit of a shock, I think, to kind of what would traditionally be kind of office furniture makers that are sort of with more flexible workdays and work environments like WeWork and all this. There was this want and need for a lot more residential looking and feeling furniture, even though some of the textiles will be used and things like that would stand up in these environments. 00:05:13:09 - 00:05:19:18 Speaker 2 For instance. And that has just continued ultimately as a development, the way I see it. 00:05:19:20 - 00:05:43:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, I totally get that. And it's funny because I would say interiors in general, not only furniture, tend towards like there's a sexiness. It's a little bit like fashion, right? Like there are lots of magazines and there are a lot of blogs and people are interested, even if they have no experience, like, it feels there. And as a result, it becomes quite trendy or it can. 00:05:43:12 - 00:06:12:13 Speaker 2 Absolutely. I think that furniture is trailing fashion in many ways. So it is becoming more trend focused. The cycles are faster, I think, than they used to be. Via social media and other things, we're inviting people into our homes that we didn't otherwise. That puts a little bit of a pressure on certain product categories that didn't really have it before, sort of to stand up to the Joneses or whatever you want to call it, ultimately. 00:06:12:15 - 00:06:24:21 Speaker 2 And even in terms of kind of speed to market and sort of fast furniture is now a sort of a term just as fast fashion, but maybe 10, 15 years later, if that makes sense. 00:06:24:23 - 00:06:42:11 Speaker 1 It does make sense. I mean, I want to come back to the the perils of that, of course, as well for the planet. But it is interesting. I want to I mean, I think that there's things like, you know, I think about like there was a moment, especially during COVID of this like Danish word, hygge, you know right. 00:06:42:11 - 00:07:08:14 Speaker 1 Which is like this cozy comfort. So there are these like geographic trends. There are these, you know, yet again in Scandinavian, minimalism. I mean we have these historic moments, these geographic influences. Then there's like colors and shapes and textures and all these things that feed into that trend cycle. Just on the very surface level, because I want to go into actually deeper trends in a minute. 00:07:08:16 - 00:07:19:05 Speaker 1 But like at the surface level, what right now in 2024 for looking ahead to the next 1 to 3 years do you think are the top three trends in furniture? 00:07:19:07 - 00:07:37:07 Speaker 2 I don't know. I think, you know, in textiles and so on, there are like things that transition, like, we're transitioning maybe from boucle to more kind of exciting patterns, you know what I mean? Or certain stones are getting dated and we want to move to another kind of stone, like this kind of stuff. So I think a lot of that is happening. 00:07:37:09 - 00:08:06:14 Speaker 2 We want to be a little bit kind of above that, if you possibly can, to try to create more timeless things that have some resonance for longer periods of time. Sure, you can change the upholstery fabric every, you know, ten years or like at least our goal is to be basically in a category of design that has some resonance and also for the environment because it isn't healthy that you're creating things that are on a trend cycle and you are throwing out after a handful of years. 00:08:06:16 - 00:08:29:06 Speaker 2 And so we're looking more at sort of bigger trends, sort of more in terms of kind of how you live, how you want to be accommodated, how you use your time, use media, how we organize our homes around our activities and this kind of stuff that I think has more longevity than, you know, just sort of the surface level stuff like I described. 00:08:29:08 - 00:08:52:14 Speaker 1 I mean, we talked about this really briefly when I was doing prep and when I visited your studio and we've talked about, for instance, the gaming chair, like your studio is known for its deep commitment to research and research driven methodologies, combined with your technical knowledge of materiality and process and being able to actually bring things to fruition. 00:08:52:16 - 00:08:58:19 Speaker 1 What is the role and the importance of research in furniture design, specifically? 00:08:58:21 - 00:09:30:06 Speaker 2 I think it's interesting because, so my background, like you said, is sort of industrial design and research is pretty integral to that. And so if you work in innovation, you're trying to create new things. You always need to know everything that exists to date, what new technology may be on the market, you know, and sort of where that curve is kind of headed and where we can sort of try to hit it right and and bring innovation to the projects that we're doing. In furniture, it’s often looked at as sort of as a non-entity, sort of like, you know, what shape should it be and what fabric maybe or what 00:09:30:06 - 00:09:50:23 Speaker 2 materials are trendy at the moment, kind of like what you're talking about. But, it assumes that it isn't really changing, you know. And I think that if we really focus not so much on the furniture piece, but on the people that are going to live with it and how their lives may have changed from 20 years ago. And if you think about society as a whole, it's changed dramatically right? 00:09:51:00 - 00:10:13:15 Speaker 2 That there can be some innovation brought to it. And I'm not talking about innovation as just in, you know, putting like, you know, USB plugs into your sofa or anything, but, you know, a bit more like programing or how we see life and how we’re dressed and how we sit maybe in more comfortable clothes than we did like 50 years ago when men were wearing suits and women wearing dresses. 00:10:13:15 - 00:10:22:10 Speaker 2 You know what I mean, like, it really has changed. And I think the sort of norm or the expectations sort of changed with that as well. 00:10:22:12 - 00:10:34:06 Speaker 1 It's really interesting and it sets you up, I guess having those insights sets you up to design something that again, isn't short term, but it has that kind of longer, longer potential lifespan, hopeful lifespan. 00:10:34:08 - 00:10:56:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that's the goal. The goal should be, I think, to acknowledge our heritage and how we've come to the point where we are and learn from the past and so on and hopefully add to it, you know, to make it more palatable for today and for the future and in some cases make it a little bit uncomfortable, yet exciting. 00:10:56:05 - 00:11:09:07 Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Because we see sort of when that quartz snaps and there is sort of this rejection, like, no it's too weird for me. I don't know what my friends are going to say when they see that I bought this stuff you know what I mean. But if it's sort of like, yeah, I get what this is, it’s exciting, it's kind of new. 00:11:09:07 - 00:11:19:15 Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? So let's figure out where we can kind of introduce enough newness, you know, that it's still kind of within our frame of sort of comfort. 00:11:19:15 - 00:11:31:24 Speaker 1 As I mentioned before, you were nominated and won in 2023, I think it was the Cooper Hewitt Design Award honoree, which is the Smithsonian Institute's Design Museum. 00:11:32:01 - 00:11:47:24 Speaker 1 You've been recognized, obviously, by the industry and your peers as someone who knows a few things. So I'm going to go like a deep dive now and put all of that to the test, Hlynur. 00:11:48:05 - 00:11:48:19 Speaker 2 Oh no. 00:11:48:21 - 00:12:12:18 Speaker 1 I know. Right? We're going to try. I want to see because obviously this is the future of furniture and there's some major innovations happening, it seems to me, in various aspects. So I'm going to start with the innovations in furniture design. Like what are some of the things that you're seeing in the design space? 00:12:12:18 - 00:12:29:21 Speaker 1 I mean, I think audience preferences may be one thing. Lifestyle changes, that merging as we talked about of, you know, private and public, but also, I mean, we're talking about I think circularity is on there. Like what are the innovations that you're seeing in the furniture world as we look ahead? 00:12:29:23 - 00:12:53:16 Speaker 2 No 100%. I think there is a lot of material innovation or there is a pursuit of material innovation. Ultimately, sort of less toxic materials, less volume, less sort of CO2 emissions. So we think about can we make the same or offer the same amount of comfort on say an upholstered piece with, say, a third of the materials we would otherwise use? 00:12:53:18 - 00:13:27:21 Speaker 2 If you look at, and we're right in the middle of that right now, say just sofas in the US, upholstered sofas. 80% of them go to landfill at the end of life and 20% get incinerated, meaning it's just a colossal thing. Right? And so what we're thinking about is like, how can we create a sofa more like we would create some more industrial design products where it's more of an assembly rather than just glue one form and staples, you know, it doesn't really allow you to elegantly pull that apart to recycle materials or anything like that. 00:13:27:21 - 00:13:53:07 Speaker 2 So I think that what sort of we should be driving towards, and I'm not sure we are completely, we are more focused on kind of materials and sort of more the ingredients in the products, but we're not really thinking about the systems around the products, how they get ultimately delivered, how they may be either refurbished or taken apart or, you know, separating materials into different, you know, recycling streams, all of this stuff we know how to do. 00:13:53:09 - 00:14:13:23 Speaker 2 But, it seems like as a society, we haven't made the decision. Maybe it's not important enough in sort of all the priorities when it comes to global warming and climate change. Maybe the business models currently don't support it. Maybe legislation isn't really prioritizing this, but I think there are several factors that come together, and we see this in all product categories. 00:14:13:23 - 00:14:29:05 Speaker 2 Furniture is no exception that ultimately once you give a product to a consumer, you've sort of lost track of it. It's up to the consumer ultimately to do with it what they want. And most of the time they don't really want to do anything in particular. They kind of like just want to throw it in the garbage. 00:14:29:08 - 00:14:31:24 Speaker 1 What’s the easiest, right? 00:14:32:01 - 00:14:52:20 Speaker 2 Right. So either, you know, we have to incentivize people to return things that there is something, you know, they get in return. Do you know what I mean? They've already paid for that upfront or whatever it is, but it needs to be across the board and we’ve seen companies sort of attempt this when they're just on the island or they end up with this more expensive product with a more elaborate way up by buying and selling it. 00:14:52:22 - 00:15:11:01 Speaker 2 And it's really just like really hard for people that have done a lot of research that, you know, would have such a narrow frame of what they want to buy that they would actually consider that. So that's a long winded way of answering your question, but I think it requires sort of bigger systems than just the product itself. 00:15:11:01 - 00:15:31:16 Speaker 2 And I'm very self-conscious, guilty product designer, do you know what I mean? Because I find myself sometimes involved in a scenario that I, I don't really approve of. Right? And so we're incrementally working towards this, but I think a lot of our clients have their head in the right place. And we're making incremental changes for sure in everything we do. 00:15:31:16 - 00:15:35:13 Speaker 2 But not to the extent that I would, I would like. Nevertheless. 00:15:35:15 - 00:15:57:17 Speaker 1 I mean, I really appreciate that response. Two episodes ago, I had the design activation leave at the Ellen MacArthur Foundation on talking about circularity in general. So these are all principles that anyone who has been following this season is familiar with or if you aren't, you know, should go back and listen or visit the MacArthur Foundation because they are trying to work on the regulation, the policy, right. 00:15:57:17 - 00:16:14:20 Speaker 1 As well as the systems and industry wide changes. Because you're right. I mean, we can only individually or even as companies working on big volume products make incremental change. We need systems to support this. This, this reuse, recycle, you know, etc.. 00:16:14:22 - 00:16:34:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a very muddy conversation. I think we need to kind of break it into fragments that people understand and have different terminology. I think climate change or CO2 emissions or what, do you know what I mean? It doesn't really mean anything to anybody. And the branding on sustainability is terrible. I think when you say like, hey, let's talk about sustainability, people just want to run out of the room. 00:16:34:23 - 00:16:37:19 Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? It’s so depressing. 00:16:37:21 - 00:17:03:06 Speaker 1 Yes, unfortunately. We've done a bad job I think, as a world, and in branding it well. Innovations in materials you touched on a little bit. I mean, there's renewable, there's using less. I mean, I think there are questions around, that are interesting to me, around biodegradables, right? I think about especially in furniture, wood has always been really heavily used. 00:17:03:11 - 00:17:29:08 Speaker 1 Do you see any innovations in maybe, for instance, like keeping wood pure so that it's not covered in polyurethane, so it actually can still break down if it ends up in landfill. Or plastics, you know, and how those are used. Or paints, nontoxic paints or metals or, like, do you see any real innovations in the materials space that really excite you, like looking even ahead 5, 10, 15 years? 00:17:29:10 - 00:18:04:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, there are some I think one of the challenges we've had is sort of to replace a polyurethane or urethane forms with more natural alternatives, for instance, and just in terms of comfort and providing the same product but done in more sustainable or responsible materials, that is changing. And so we're designing, we're working on some projects now that may incorporate that, which is exciting, new technologies ultimately and creating comfort without needing so much mass, ultimately different suspension methods. 00:18:04:06 - 00:18:34:23 Speaker 2 And sort of like I was saying, sort of creating comfort without all that volume and material use. So that's something we're working on. Wood we haven't looked at so much. I mean, there are in terms of coatings and so on, there isn't development in that. There is more stringent regulation in the EU regarding this. And so for instance, if we want to transition out of plating, there are some interesting powder coating and things like that and so are there. 00:18:34:23 - 00:18:48:17 Speaker 2 There is some incremental change there. And I think that's also kind of in terms of leveling the playing field and everybody having to work really hard to serve as a competition and to create an alternative that is really, really good. 00:18:48:19 - 00:19:00:09 Speaker 1 Competition is good. I mean, I'm looking at your Heller chair in the background there that kind of hugs you a little bit. And that's all post-consumer plastics as well, right? Like a large portion of that. 00:19:00:14 - 00:19:24:07 Speaker 2 Yes. Yes. For post-industrial. So what they're using is agricultural plastic that's used in fields, you know, to cover crops and things like that. And that's an example of like a very pure recycling stream, if that makes sense. And I think it's really important to keep materials separate. Like some polymers actually can go through many cycles of recycling, right. 00:19:24:09 - 00:19:40:16 Speaker 2 If they're just kept pure and they're not contaminated. So the more predictable a stream is, the better. And so, for instance, for Heller to take back their chairs and grind them up, they know what the color is and what the material composition is and it’s sort of a very elegant way of continuing the cycle, if that makes sense. 00:19:40:18 - 00:19:50:01 Speaker 2 And they're on their side incorporating some new materials and they're going to have some announcement soon on that front. So which is cool. 00:19:50:03 - 00:20:14:11 Speaker 1 Exciting. That's very exciting. Continuing on the innovations kind of in the future, what about retail and just the sales model? I feel like it's really changed a lot in the last five years with direct to consumer, but I also feel like I'm not I mean, and then I think about like you have avatars and you're like, you know, decorating your home in like VR land and stuff. 00:20:14:11 - 00:20:20:05 Speaker 1 Like how is retail and the sales model evolving in furniture? 00:20:20:07 - 00:20:49:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think with the direct to consumer is interesting because especially with more expensive furniture, you kind of want to sit in it or experience it before you buy it, right? And so it's more kind of the high end where you ultimately have that luxury, if you can call it that. And why should it be luxury? I'm not sure, but I find it kind of crazy to be buying, say, a lounge chair or something and having never sat in it. 00:20:49:08 - 00:21:13:24 Speaker 2 But that's a big part of it. And then you get a lot of returns and you get, you know, we’ve heard a lot of stories around that. I think sort of for different product categories outside of things that you're experiencing directly, using sort of VR and things like that to kind of put things in your home and visualization and all this, I think this is going to continue. 00:21:14:01 - 00:21:36:02 Speaker 2 I may be old school, but I think that you want to sort of examine your product a little bit, kick the tires, you know, before you buy it, you know, if you can. And I think with some of these direct to consumer models, there's just another waste stream associated with that just in terms of fuel and packaging and also as well as stuff that is a very negative downside to convenience. 00:21:36:02 - 00:21:54:19 Speaker 2 And we know that sort of, you know, increased convenience and lower prices, people just consume more and take advantage of these things and they can be really, really wasteful as a result. So as an anecdote, like I thought, for instance, when you started streaming video, rather than buying or renting DVDs, this would be like, great, for the environment. 00:21:54:21 - 00:22:07:09 Speaker 2 It's the opposite. You're basically, you know, running some servers on there in a different country, like fully, I don't know, you know, using way more material. And so this is how some of these things end up unfortunately. 00:22:07:11 - 00:22:24:17 Speaker 1 I think that's maybe one of the more succinct summaries I've ever heard someone give of the impact of our kind of fast fashion, fast furniture, fast everything, cheaper is better model. It's interesting. 00:22:24:19 - 00:22:31:10 Speaker 2 But no, I don't mean to be a doomsday man here but, you know, in some ways that is not you know. 00:22:31:13 - 00:22:51:13 Speaker 1 No, absolutely. I mean, and also as a European, I mean, as you mentioned, I mean, the EU is leading the way in regulation across the world. And, you know, there's a lot of benefit in that. The rest of the world is benefiting from the EU taking a stand. And they're not ahead of anything, but they're ahead of everyone else in the world from a policy and regulation perspective. 00:22:51:13 - 00:23:02:13 Speaker 1 And that helps force the systems change, you know, and help companies think about how they do this differently, which is ultimately important. 00:23:02:15 - 00:23:03:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:23:03:21 - 00:23:24:01 Speaker 1 What about technology? I mean, in the furniture industry, I think of it as like craft and I mean, it feels really old school in a lot of ways. Like, I mean, I know you guys work in CAD and things like this, but like you also do hand drawings I'm guessing still to a certain degree. There's like materials, samples. 00:23:24:06 - 00:23:43:21 Speaker 1 I mean, it's actually like and then it's, most things are handcrafted or have heavy human touch in the supply chain. How is, let's use AI as one example of advanced technology, but how are advanced technologies being used in the you know, across the value chain in the furniture industry? 00:23:43:23 - 00:24:05:11 Speaker 2 So I think one part would be, say our process, say how we do research, how we come to design concepts and kind of how we develop them internally. And we use a lot of processes there. Sometimes we use A.I. sort of as a check on even kind of just summarizing kind of what the market would think or prefer, you know what I mean? 00:24:05:11 - 00:24:31:15 Speaker 2 It's pretty good at kind of putting forward some boilerplate sort of it's not going to innovate, you know, as it stands today, it’s not going to design anything for you, but it can sort of serve as a check on a few things. Right? We're seeing where, I'm a firm believer in sort of like more advanced manufacturing and how really elegant manufacturing can create really beautiful, solid quality products. 00:24:31:17 - 00:24:57:01 Speaker 2 And so that was part of the complexity there, more so than on the actual product. We don't need complicated products. I think we prefer simple, elegant, beautiful products. Or at least I do. And so we can do things in like really advanced 3D knitting. We can create textiles that don't have any waste, we can tension them in really elegant ways and we can have them breathe and so on. 00:24:57:01 - 00:25:22:17 Speaker 2 We can create really simple, you know, effective, actually very advanced products that when it's in front of the consumer, it doesn't actually look that complex at all. And so we use sort of the same basically ideas and ideology and sort of packaging and other product categories where we sort of park the complexity where it needs to be, you know, to get the best outcome for the person that's using this in the end. 00:25:22:24 - 00:25:30:23 Speaker 2 I think oftentimes companies end up having a conversation with themselves, but not actually with who they're designing for, producing for if that makes sense. 00:25:31:00 - 00:26:03:03 Speaker 1 Absolutely. And I think, I mean, there are other advanced technologies that I mean, unfortunately, the supply chain for furniture is very fragmented in many, many ways. It touches all over the world in terms of like when you talk about the material inputs versus also the manufacturing and then obviously the distribution. There's an organization that's top of mind right now for me, because I was just there earlier this week called Grace Farms and actually their musical director was on a few episodes ago too. 00:26:03:03 - 00:26:28:18 Speaker 1 But, they have a conference each year which is designed for freedom, and it's removing forced labor in the modern supply chain really around architecture and building materials. So not furniture as much, but it got me thinking about, you know, where is what is the labor practices and could something like blockchain eventually, because so much furniture is high touch high value even if it's not the most expensive. 00:26:28:20 - 00:26:36:03 Speaker 1 Do you see anyone talking about using blockchain or any other kinds of advanced technologies to kind of secure that supply chain or not so much? 00:26:36:05 - 00:27:00:22 Speaker 2 Not so much in that. But I think there is an opportunity, though, in some of these more high touch products to do that more low touch or make them more, instead of making one big item with a lot of staples and glue to create parts and that are assembled. And so I think rethinking some of these products, as obviously industries are very invested in the way they do things because the last thing they want to do is change the price model to allow for something totally new. 00:27:00:24 - 00:27:22:17 Speaker 2 You know what I mean, and so they're sort of conspirators in this you know, but we're seeing some change here and there is an inclination of how we might do it differently. It tends to cost quite a lot to allot for. But you can, you know, ultimately, how can I put it, not have as many people work in those jobs anymore? 00:27:22:19 - 00:27:49:02 Speaker 2 Now we can debate whether these are great jobs or not, but I think in many ways they're not now. And so I think that this dovetails as well with the sustainability conversation as we are more assembling products and disassembling them and using less glues and fumes and stuff, then that's a very positive development and I think, again, get more consistent, high quality product out of these processes as well and probably at a lower cost. 00:27:49:02 - 00:28:04:03 Speaker 2 And so I see that there are opportunities there, especially with bigger players that may be doing products for, say, different brands and price points within the same sort of umbrella. 00:28:04:05 - 00:28:25:20 Speaker 1 It's really interesting and we just touched on a number of things. I'm not going to go backwards into some of the pieces that we've touched on already, but something that came up there is about jobs and opportunity. It's this topic that keeps coming up in all of these episodes of Future of XYZ, especially now that we're more focused on kind of creativity, design, you know, culture and such 00:28:25:20 - 00:28:49:19 Speaker 1 through the iF Design presentation. I'm really curious, in the furniture industry, I mean, you're known for saying everything we imagine can be made. I mean, when you think about the next generation of talent, how do we help them develop that same mindset of imagination as well as creation? 00:28:51:23 - 00:29:07:15 Speaker 2 Excellent question. I don't know if I have a good answer. I think it takes some time and dedication ultimately to get there. And I for instance, I taught a class at Pratt in the graduate program 00:29:07:17 - 00:29:08:02 Speaker 1 In Brooklyn. 00:29:08:02 - 00:29:30:08 Speaker 2 that's around sustainability, right. And I discovered that you must be able to design the basic thing before you can start thinking about sustainability at all. You know what I mean? That's sort of putting the cart before the horse ultimately, because that sort of like a little down the line, if that makes sense. 00:29:30:10 - 00:29:36:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. So you have to teach design. 00:29:36:20 - 00:29:54:19 Speaker 2 It's a certain way of thinking about things, at least, you know. I think it's as well. I think my career is a little different because, you know, I've been working in almost every aspect of design ultimately or touched on it in some way in many ways, and we managed to sort of learn something from one place and apply it somewhere else. 00:29:54:19 - 00:30:12:16 Speaker 2 And I've found it really interesting to come into furniture from more industrial design and sort of working as a much bigger companies that are making things at a much bigger scale and sort of the kind of approaches they have and and safeguards and how it's different than furniture, for instance. 00:30:12:18 - 00:30:13:08 Speaker 1 It's really interesting. 00:30:13:13 - 00:30:15:19 Speaker 2 00:30:15:21 - 00:30:42:18 Speaker 1 Well, we're close to time. So I have two final questions that I like to ask guests. The first is recommendations. I mean, you and your work have been featured in I can't even count how many magazines and coffee table books and reference guides and stuff. So whether it's those or others, what would be kind of one or two iconic references that you would recommend listeners check out if they want to learn about furniture. 00:30:42:20 - 00:30:44:05 Speaker 2 Just furniture in general? 00:30:44:07 - 00:30:45:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:30:45:08 - 00:31:17:22 Speaker 2 I think that, all right, there are two books that I come to repeatedly, like since I graduated from school, and I think they're very good sort of baseline. One is The Measure of Man and Woman by Dreyfuss and it's really just a catalog of body sizes and sort of what bodies can interface with and how we should position our body for relaxation versus work or all these things and which is a really good sort of reference ultimately to start. 00:31:17:22 - 00:31:48:24 Speaker 2 So if you obviously can challenge that but it’s a good sort of starting point. And another book that I find really helpful is 1000 Chairs. This may sound very pedestrian, but it's really it's sobering to first realize that somebody edited a book with 1000 chairs. It means that, you know, if you're designing a chair you should probably do something kind of interesting or something relevant and new, right. As a one sort of from the executional standpoint, the other one sort of more on the research part I guess. 00:31:48:24 - 00:31:49:18 Speaker 2 00:31:49:20 - 00:32:06:03 Speaker 1 I love that. Thank you for those references. And then the final question, which I ask all guests about their particular topic. As you look ahead, let's call it 25ish years to 2050, let's say, what's your greatest hope for the future of furniture? 00:32:06:05 - 00:32:30:17 Speaker 2 I think it comes back to what we were talking about earlier, about ultimately implementing the things we know will have impact when it comes to creating sustainable furniture, putting those measures in place. And I think it's very possible, at it’s just about the will and certain things coming together to make that happen. And I think it would be a joy to work in that environment. 00:32:30:19 - 00:32:42:14 Speaker 1 Hlynur Atlason, founder and president of Atlason Studio based in Soho, New York, thank you so, so much for joining us on this episode of Future of XYZ. It was fascinating. 00:32:42:16 - 00:32:45:00 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me, it was fun. 00:32:45:02 - 00:33:02:13 Speaker 1 And for everyone watching or listening, we're asking you to leave a five star review wherever you listen to your podcast because that's how other people can find us. Thank you to iF Design for being the presenting sponsor and you can find us also on the Surround Podcast Network. We will see you in two weeks. Take care and thanks again, Hlynur.