Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 359 - Gordon Arnold "The Invisible Man"

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 359 - Gordon Arnold "The Invisible Man" · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I doesn't mean you, ladies and down, We're gonna open
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: up one of these Uppernini prison path packs during the video.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I real talk, dude, I were looking to make history.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I were looking to go for yon measures. I were
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: looking to pull an ultra rey manga card. Aint nobody
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: or try to pull the stump other day and hit
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: it big on eBay. Hey, real talk ladies, Joe, I'm
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: really looking to pull an ultraary number prison card. It's
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: more rare compared to other number of cars has been
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: pulled to stumb by the every.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Day and go buy it on YouTube.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hey, real talk, old ladies and that one without further ado,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: let's hit it big boot.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: This is the largest coincidence in history. See if your
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: history teacher can explain this. Abraham Lincoln was elected to
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Congress in eighteen forty six.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: John F.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Kennedy was elected to Congress in nineteen forty six. Abraham
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Lincoln was elected president in eighteen sixty.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: John F.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Kennedy was elected president in nineteen sixty. Both were particularly
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost to child while
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: living in the White House. Both presidents were shot on
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: a Friday. Both presidents were shot in the head. Now
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: it gets really weird. Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy. Kennedy's
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: secretary was named Lincoln. Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: was born in eighteen oh eight. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: was born in nineteen oh eight. John Wilkes Booth, who
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: assassinated Lincoln, was born in eighteen thirty nine. Lee Harvey Oswald,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: who assassinated Kennedy, was born in nineteen thirty nine. Both
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: assassins were known by their three names. Both names are
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: composed of fifteen letters. Now hang on to your seat.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Lincoln was shot at the theater named Ford. Kennedy was
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: shot in a car called Lincoln, made by Ford. Booth
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: and Oswald were assassinated before their trials. And here's the kicker.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Lincoln was shot in a theater and the assassin ran
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to a warehouse. Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the assassin ran to a theater.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: He is that Tom and Joey chokes and it's from
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: the b Mabe and t Beats and Joby rap Cock Dan,
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: Joe Brady and Joby Joey's and then from a Babe
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: and timber Bees and Joe be Lp Dot job Red.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: How is sakena Jack.
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: Sellom Joe kill we.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And here we go, Here we go. Indeed, don't you
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: have me? Didn't you what? Everybody? Yeah, very close, very close,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Lone Woman Podcast. It's his episode number
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty freaking nine. Wow, that's a lot, Joe.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: It's a lot.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And we don't even number the Wednesday episodes.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: We would be well over four hundred by then, right,
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: if not closer to five. I don't even know at
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: this point.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Man, Right, all right, goodness, But today we're gonna be
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: talking about Gordon Arnold, the Invisible Man, or the man
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: who Wasn't there, or a variety of other nicknames Gordon
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Arnold has earned over his uh illustrious lifetime. Shall we say?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: But before we do, I have a bit of news.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Joe, Oh please please do tell now.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Joe doesn't even know this, folks, but for those out
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: there who, well, there are some people that know. But
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I was adopted, right some this a long time ago, yes,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: in uh yeah, a long time ago in the seventies,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: shall we say, at some point, and I never really
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: knew like what ethnicity I am. I've always been curious,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: you know, to know, like what you know?
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: Am I?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: What am I? Right? I mean, there's some things I
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: know I'm not, but I'm definitely an amalgamation of a
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Caucasian of some sort. But you know, I've always been curious.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So I finally did the the DNA thing on ancestry, right,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: and turns out, Joe that I'm roughly twenty five percent
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: English or British if you will, Oh, okay, mate, yeah,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: twenty five percent German, okay, twenty five percent French from
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: se Croissan, fifteen percent Scottish Scottish Joe, wow, yeah, yeah,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: that's awesome, and ten percent Irish. Joe.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Sally is jumping up and down in Ireland right now, right,
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: and she's from England and I think she lived in Scotland.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: So her haggas is tingling over there, m.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Her kiddies are jumping.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was excited, you know, to figure this out, right,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: And then I noticed that on Ancestry, when you upload
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: your DNA, it matches your DNA to other people that
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: have uploaded their DNA into ancestry. Oh interesting, much like
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: how they caught the Golden Gate killer.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's called like a genetic genealogy. And that's
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: how they also caught the the Idaho killer that killed
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: the four girls in the in their beds recently, which
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: has been a true crime.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: You'd be screwed if you ever did that.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I haven't done anything that bad, so I'm not
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: really aware. But interestingly enough, I matched with two ladies
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: as they're my aunts. Right, I've never known anything about
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: my birth family ever.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: So they could tell the difference between say, your mom
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: and your aunt.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because of the percentage of DNA that you share.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Oh right, I would have matched with the birth mother.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: It would have been fifty percent, right, And these two
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: ladies was I think one was twenty seven percent and
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: one was twenty five percent. And it tells you you know,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: they're either aunts or half sisters.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: But after I looked them up on Facebook, I realized
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: very quickly they were more than likely aunts instead of
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: half sisters given their age. But and then apparently, you know,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of very nerdy genealogy people on ancestry
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: who are more than willing to help with things. So
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: you know, when you do that, you kind of pop
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: up on the radar. They're saying, hey, you have a
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: new cousin and bumfuck whatever. Right, So I had some
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: people reach out to me from the certain side of
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the family, and we kind of narrowed it down, Joe,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: given that these two ladies or my aunts, uh, these
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: two ladies had another sister and also three brothers, so
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: one of those other four had to be one of
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: my birth parents, right right, So we you know, through
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: talking to I've reached out to some other members of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the family and through process of elimination, figured out who
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: my birth father is what. Yeah, and that I have
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: two brothers. Yeah, it's crazy.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: That's a trip, man.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: What's more of a trip is realizing that all of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: these people living the next town over, like twenty miles away. Stop. Yeah,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: so that's where I was born and I was adopted
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: into the family in this next like the next town
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: over basically right. Yeah. So this past Sunday, I've been
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: talking to my brother and I was like, you know what, dude,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: why waste time, Let's fucking meet up hang out. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: cool story is I got to meet my brother this
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: past Sunday.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: That's fucking awesome.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: He looks chill as well.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: He is chill as hell, like I don't know, vibe wise,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: he's just like me, like we're both we both have
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: a lot in common. We've been at the same concerts
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: at the same time. Knew it. Yeah, so it was
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: very wild.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: What what concerts?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Well, our first concert, he was telling me, Man, my
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: first concert was, you know, Jane's Addiction. I was like, yeah,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I was back in ninety one at a Lot of
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Plues and he was like, yeah, that's where I saw
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: James Addiction. And then we're both like Lake Fairfax Park,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, we were there together. And we were
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: also at the Pink Floyd show in ninety four at
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: RFK Stadium and the Grateful Dead show before that.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: What.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's wild.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: The universe works in some mysterious, crazy.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Ways, crazy ways. But that is an.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Awesome story, man, and good for you. That is fucking
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: awesome man.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was some epically good news that I
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: got you know, the past, been trying to track this stuff,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: you know, this stuff down. You know, it takes a
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: while to kind of figure everything out and get in
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: touch with people and you know, wait, wait afford to
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: message you back or never message you back at all.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: But I was lucky to meet my brother and uh,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it was very cool.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: That's cool. Does he know your other brother? Obviously he
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: doesn't know him.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he grew up with so yeah, you knows, I
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: have not yet, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Now he lives the same town too, so it's just
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a matter of time, I guess if he ever wants to,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: you know, like like I told him, I said, look,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to interrupt anybody's life or whatever, you know,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: and all that. But of course, of course, and if
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: you if you want to meet cool, if you don't cool,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I mainly just one of the peace of
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: mind of knowing finally where I come from.
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: For sure.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: You know, there's always been like a little part of
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: me that's like always wondered, right of course, So of
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: course that was hella cool, Hella cool.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: That is an awesome story to start the show.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I just had to share that real quick. And Brandon
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Brandon next to you because I told him I talked
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to him right before I was getting ready to go
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: meet him. Actually, yes, so you can he.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Could blame Rob's brother for no book review this week.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, but we had a good time and uh hopefully
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of many. Yeah, Trey bad news. He's
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a loan nutter.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: We'll change that.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: No, his tinfoil had as nice as as shiny as mind.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Really okay, what what does he have like a favorite conspiracy.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure he does. We didn't get too too
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: into that, Okay, but he's not like he's definitely not
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: like a loan noted dick type, trust.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Right, Okay, yeah, it doesn't look like one. No.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: No, he's very he's very cool, very late and back
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: and like I said, I only had like an hour
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: or two to hang out with them. But uh, yeah, man,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: it was it was cool, awesome, you know, very wild
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to look into your brother's eyes for the first time.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: You know, at this age, I'm like, man, this is wild.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And we were both like and you know, the more
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: we found out about each other, it's just like, man,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: this is crazy. It's crazy. Like I can't even tell
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: you all the stuff on here for personal ship, but
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: it's crazy.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's part of the simulation, bro.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just wanted to share some good news
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: before we get into this crazy episode here. Ill just
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: let you guys know, I mean, I look at you.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Oh and and by the way, you know when when
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you get new family and everything, and and uh, someone
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: who's been very helpful to me is my new cousin, Emily.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: And she's also a YouTuber. So the link is in
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the description for her channel. So after the show, if
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: you guys could show her some love and all that,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that'd be awesome. She does like unboxing, thrift halls, book reviews,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: just all kinds of stuff.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, does she want to join us as possibly our
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: first guest in a book review?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, I can always break the subject. Yeah, you know,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: she's in the horror, anime books, all kinds of stuff,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and she has a very cool channel. So make sure
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to check she actually has more to subscribers than we do.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: Joe.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, well, I hope she gets a shout out too, right.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it is one of the I put
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: their description down there. If you want to check it out,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: show her some love and tell her we sent you
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: that'd be awesome.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: Definitely gonna check that out for sure.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very very stoked yeah about it. So that's
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: good news.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, that that makes me really happy.
• 15:10
  Speaker 8: Bud.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: I love it. I love that's It's just I just
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: can't like begin to fathom how much of like a
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: like mind fucked that would be. You know.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. I mean it's a lot to take in,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because it all happens too fast,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh shit. But of course the hunt
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: is never over. Still trying to figure out the birth
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: mother type of thing and that side of the family.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Is it a total mystery so far, But I think
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I'll get there eventually, but it's gonna be a slow burn,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: that'd said, Joe. Go ahead and welcome some of our
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: friends in if you will, please, sir.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: Sure, I'm gonna do it really really quickly, just so
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: we can get on with that moose heaven. What's up, sir?
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I saw tiny was in her first, but it off
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: messages like way before, I think, like ten minutes before,
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: like at six fifty sally evening. All. I'm just back
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: from the pub. I got me a spice bag from
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: the local Chinese takeaway and a few beers. I'm ready.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: Hell yeah, we like to hear it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Better than a spicy bag in your mouth.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Joe, Yes, and see yah, Tony says hi and Trey
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: went up. We already said hi to Cherry Paul Cummings,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: good evening, sir.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: That's pronounced cal Bella. I didn't want to butcher it
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: so I know Italian well.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: As Irony would have it. I'm going to Italy in
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: about three days.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: And you're Italian and I'm Italian, so I did not.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: I don't embarrass myself. Yeah, I'm terrible, and fun fact
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: about me, I actually had a speech impediment as a kid,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: so who knew that I would.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, cutting the noise and and therapy brought us to this.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: That's a surprise quote. James. Actually here, what's up, sir?
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: Missing for one dang dong. Ruth Payne is dead and yes,
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: that is the other big news of the week. We
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: did cover it on Wednesday Show. A lot of people
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: have mixed feelings about Ruth Payne. I don't want to
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: get into it too much. I don't think she was
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: like some huge devilish character. I think she had some
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: good intentions. I think she was definitely involved in the
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: indicting of Lee's character after and possibly and some things before.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to get into it, but either way, Uh,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: you know, we hope that she rusts in peace. She
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: had a long life and she was sharp to the
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: end of it.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one thing we did say on Wednesday night too,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: is if you feel cool if she kind of left
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: behind a little something like, you know, a manuscript script
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: or some you know, a truth paper or something that
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: maybe she let it all out, you know, and said,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: after I die, make sure this gets out there type
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: of thing. Who knows, But that's wishful thinking.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: It is very wishful thinking. And of course if she did,
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: you can never h You never know if someone's gonna
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: break it and take it before it gets out, as
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: we see with diaries and.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Documents and they go missing. Yeah, good thing. James J's
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Angleton is not still alive, probably already have it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Well, the modern day angle dinner probably would have been off.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Who's that guy?
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: That's a good question, Uh, Sir Sean Lootte, what's up
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: James Smith, Paula Jane and Ka Uh, let's see double
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: B We already said and thanked him.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, double b Brandon sent me some
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: hot sauce in the mail. Let me get that up
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: there for everybody to see. Gator hammock lethal, Gator.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: And I like it. I like the white wrapper in
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the bottle. You know, normally hot sauce has tried to,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you know, snaggle you in with like an orange or
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a red label, just to show you that how.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: Fire it is, you know, Joe, right right?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: This one is cool, calm and collected. Much like the
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: T shirt. I decided to wear it tonight white because
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: you a false sense of security thinking, you know, there
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: might be something not so bad. But I can't wait
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: to throw this on some chicken and tear it the
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: f up. Yeah, and this Brandon again, thanks Buddy for
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: sending me this. The list of peppers in the sun
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: of a Bitch. I can't wait. I'm gonna be on fire, Joe.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he actually sent me the same thing. So
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: this is like his local hot sauce. I actually haven't
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: checked my packages today.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's local hot sauce because it's
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: from Faloa, Florida, Okay, and he lives in wherever, but
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: it might be his.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Favorite, Yes, his favorite. And that's not to say we
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: are endorsing that over Silk City. We are just thanking
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: the double B.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: For his connoissewers here.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, exactly, exactly City.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Will always be number one in our hearts. But you're
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: also always excited to try a new blend. And this
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: one has red Scotch bonnet peppers in it, which I'm
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: just a little scared of. Joe.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Hmmm.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Uh, jalapenos, habaneros, pepper mash, cayenne crush, red pepper, black pepper, onion. Yeah,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: it sounds delicious, but it does sound lethal.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: But I'm up for the challenge.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I can't wait. Yeah, thank you Brandon for the hot
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: smells brother, will do you, sir?
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Yes? And thank you for mine. And when you get
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: to our level of hot sauce enthusiasm, you mix different
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: kinds for different you know, taste profiles.
• 22:01
  Speaker 9: Yeah, mixed this with like King's Karma and like or
• 22:06
  Speaker 9: with something house when your tacos so chicken.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Uh, mister Jack Taylor is here as well. I'll let
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: you know, Brandon, I have to chuck. I'm sure I
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: probably got today j And I think I don't want
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: to miss anyone, especially PSV obviously, although I haven't seen.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Him, he is here, PSV.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Okay good and is he?
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I see peach sister's kitchen in the house as well.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Oh and and mister Doug popped in.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, mister Douglas Campbell from the Skills of the what
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: is it called Deerfoot Holler near Nashville, Tennessee. Yes, the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: bird is here, Joline, what's up, Joelene? And oh, by
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: the way, I did see Joe you got another free membership.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, as did Molly June South to West Rocket,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Queen Colleen and Cammy. So congratulations to you guys, and
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: thank you to Brandon for gifting them.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Wow, thank you sir.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: A lot, Paul, Andichi's up in the house. We got
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: a freaking house full offs in here.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we do. So on that note, let's uh, let's
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: let's cut to it.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: And let's twenty five minutes. Yeah, in the beginning, it's
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: just good news. I wanted to share with everybody, you guys,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and I like to tell you when good ship happens,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not always bad ship.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Right, Yes, mister Dave Sparks and she Bird.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Uncle Dave as well, Beautiful Jolie, Joe Joel. It's a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: great song the other day by Dolly Parton and Miley Sis.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: So what's up with this Gordon Arnold fella here? Why
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: is he called the Invisible Man?
• 24:41
  Speaker 10: Why?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you why, Joe. I mean, I know why
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: spanished somehow to evade being captured on film or in
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: photographs anywhere. And all of the available photography and film
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: that we have of Deally Plaza that day, given his location,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: we just don't have the guy on film except for
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: one maybe. So I'm gonna show everybody, and I'm sure
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Doug will be very familiar with this artwork, given it
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: was on his logo for a very long time. Let
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: me pop this up here. This is the infamous Badgeman photograph.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: The enhancement, if you will, that was first brought about
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: by I think Tink Thompson, the author of six Seconds
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: in Dallas, and people like Jack White Gary Mack kind
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of enhanced this image, if you will, to bring out
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the more finer details. Okay, so when you look at this,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: obviously Badge Man is right in the middle and it
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: appears he's in the stance of a weapon firing with
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: even a puff of smoke. Right, yeah, either that or
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: he just hit a really big, fat joint. And then
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: behind him you see what appears to be, to you know,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: to his to his right or my right, his left, uh,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: an image of a maybe a railroad worker with a
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: hard hat on. But to the left of those guys
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: you have what appears to be an image of someone
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: in uniform holding a movie camera up to their face. Okay,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: m hm. This would be the only image that we
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: have that I know of that could possibly be Gordon
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Arnold in Dealey Plaza. Now, Joe, when you look at
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: this photo and it's uncut, raw, state the Mormon photo. Yes, okay,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: let me go back to the cover photo because I'll
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: show you kind of where this is in this photo
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: real quick, so you can see right in the middle
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: of the cover art, I inserted the colorized photo of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Badge man kind of where they would be in the
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Mormon photo, so kind of at the corner of the
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: wall basically. So let's go back and look at the
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Mormon photo. Now. I wish I could blow this up
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: even more, but you kind of start losing details. But
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you can play along at home. Download this photo. Blow
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: it up and see for yourself. Now, the perspective is off,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: of course, because if you're looking at the Badgeman photo,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it kind of looks like Badgeman is out in front
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: of both of these figures, right and actuality, the person
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: that is going to be closest to the camera is
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: actually the Gordon Arnold figure. And he said Joe that
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: he was standing, and he went and stood where he
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: said he was standing. So we have this picture from
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: the late seventies that Earl Goals took and it has
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: him standing right there at the top of the steps, okay,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and kind of right there in the corner right now,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you can see behind him the parking lot. You can
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: see behind him a pretty sweet like nineteen seventy five
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: gremlin with the racing strade down the side of it,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: and the beginning of the picket fence right now. I've
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: also heard him say that he was more over to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: the left, I'm sorry, my left his right, that he
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: was on a a dirt patch kind of up in front,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: over in front of the fence. Because as we'll see
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: in a minute in this video where he talks about
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: what he was doing. So basically Gordon Arnold was in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the art or me, and I don't know if he was.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I think he was stationed at some some place around
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Texas and he was on you know, leaving town. But
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: on November twenty second, he decided to go to Dealey
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Plaza to see the presidential presidential Parade, and he had
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: a movie camera with him, and he basically went up
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: behind the grassy knoll because he wanted to get up
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to the overpass and he wanted to film from there.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: So he goes behind the picket fence back in the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: park a lot, and he goes to climb over that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: steam pipe. It's no longer there, but was back then,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: he said. As soon as he got his leg over
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: that thing, somebody came over. It's like, hey, no, no, no,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: you can't, you can't get up here. Sorry, you need
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: to go back, go back, go back. So he's like, okay,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So he goes back and he either goes to this
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: position where he said he was, or he goes just
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: around the corner in front of the picket fence, which
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: we put him on the other side of the steps here.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Either way, from the perspective of the Mormon photograph, it's
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: kind of hard to figure where the shooter would be,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: because you would think, okay, well a shooter might be
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: behind the picket fence. But I just don't understand their perspective,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: if you will. But somehow it's off. But yet they're
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: all kind of proportionally alike, as in their the same size.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Where somebody further away might appear smaller, those that are
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: closer would appear larger. Type of thing. It's just weird, right,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: It's weird. Yeah, So when you're thinking about the picket
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: fence and where the shooter maybe could have been, I
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: believe this is also from the Mormon photograph. You'll see
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: on the left there's an arrow pointing down to a
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: figure behind the picket fence. And again this is another
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: location where I've heard that Gordon Arnold says that he
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: was but up more near the corner of the fence.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Because as we'll hear his story, he basically said the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: bullet he heard the shot from behind him and zing
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: passed his right ear and he immediately hit the dirt. Right. So,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: with that being said, Joe, the first thing that we
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: can understand from Gordon Arnold is he actually wrote his
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: wife or his girlfriend at the time a letter. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: what is the date of this letter Joe?
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: It is November twenty ninth or thirtieth. It's postmark the thirtieth,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three, which would be about a week after
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: the assassination.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And what does this letter say, Joe? If you could
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: read it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Please sure let me steal the screen from you, Yes, sir,
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: as I could read along with you. And this is
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: the description from the sixth floor website museum website, one
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Paige or actually, first of all, when you go to
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: this this this was the the envelope of course, five
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: cents postage postmarked on the thirtieth you can see twenty
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: ninth written on the bottom right hand corner to miss
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: Mary Seymour, right, and she's in Dallas. Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: So he's mailing this from Washington.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, so on his way to his deployment in Alaska,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: he stopped in Washington. Correct. This letter from Gordon Arnold
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: to his wife Mary Seymour is on cream stationery with
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: an image of the hotel building, the Evance Downtown Motor
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: Hotel on Stewart and Seventh Avenue in Seattle, Washington. Dearest Mary,
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: I am in Thank God, I don't have to read
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: this roup decipher this. I am in set, Washington now,
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: but I still have to go to Tacoma, Washington to
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: get to McCord Air Force Base and McCord Air Force Base.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: Shout out to John Limb back I think is where
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: they got Yeah, I think was uh has something to
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: do with the dB Cooper case. Either they flew over
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: they either they got the parashoes there or he flew
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: over it and he's he said, why don't you get
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: them from Acord type of thing, like he knew, like
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: asked McCord for them.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I know he was given a couple of military shoes
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: and a couple of sports shoes. Yeah, I just don't know.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what he specifically asked for, but yeah.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to shout out John for that. Uh. Saturday,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: I'm going to try to and get some movie picture
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: of the world fair. So this sentence is important because
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: it actually.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Shows that he has a movie camera.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, if it doesn't cost too much, Doug gave
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: me movie film. I could sure use it. I still
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: haven't opened your package yet. The trip up was long,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: but it passed pretty good. You should have seen the
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: mountains covered with snow, the foggy ground around bodies of water,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: and the sunset at twenty eight thousand feet. Wish you
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: could have been with me? Well, right when I get
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: to permanent assignment. I love you always, Gordon, And let's
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: see if anything else interesting.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: But I have a good love story.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: It's they had a good relationship, right.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: But you know she's in Dallas, so you know she
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: knows what happened in Dallas, right, right. But but but
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: big butt here seeing that he does not mention being
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: on the grassy, know, and what allegedly happened to him
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: on the grassyn, which we'll get to because it's kind
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: of a traumatic event for him, one would think, and
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: something that you may want to tell the woman you love,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: unless maybe you didn't want anybody to know that you
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: were there. But we'll get there, I promise.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And that's pretty much it for a long time
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: of what we hear about from Gordon Arnold. Fast forward
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: to August twenty ninth, nineteen seventy.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Eight, nineteen and seventy eight.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: And as we've been discussing, we know that is kind
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: of when the AARB is just in its last six months,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: Joan EDI's was a fresh one month in or.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Two months being the hsdagent.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: RB, Yes, I said, Arb, I'm sorry. Yes, the HSCA,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: so Joan D's is two months fresh on the job
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: at this point, and we get our next let me
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: find the tap are well.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Apparently the big buzz with the HSCA and some of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the hubbub going around Dallas at the time is that
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of people were writing about and telling their
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: stories of encountering a secret Service agent or or police
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: or somebody identifying themselves as a secret Service agent up
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: behind the picket fence on the grassy no immediately after
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: the shots, and somehow Earl Goals found out about a
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: story that Gordon Arnold was telling that was very similar
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: to some of the other ones that they were hearing
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: at the time, and Goals thought that this should be
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: investigated by the HSCA. Hence, while he wrote this article.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, there was, HCA was getting a lot of
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: publicity and a lot of people were coming out with
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: a lot of different stories, and the Dallas Morning News
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: on August twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight, came out with
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: this article, well, do you have.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: It up there or did I put it up there.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I have the hard copy, all right.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: Put the hard copy up all right here? You want
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: to read it because my pronunciation is horrible.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll hit the highest spots here.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, I have it up on the screen.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Now. This was published in the Dallas Morning News folks
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: by Earl Goles and here. Originally, Gordon Arnold did not
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: want his name out there period. Goals had to convince
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: him that the only way this story is going to
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: get out there is if I'd say, who you know?
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Tell your name, because I guess it was against paper
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: policy just to throw shit out there without a name attached,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: you know, right.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: I think the editor or kind of convinced Goals to
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: reveal who it was, yeah, even though he might have
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: promised Gordon initially.
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: So.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: The article starts off with saying several men posing as
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agents were in Daily Plaza shortly before and
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: after JFK was assassinated. Shortly before the shooting, one of
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the apparent impostors discouraged a soldier from walking behind the
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: wooden fence atop the grassy knoll from which the HSCA
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: test fired a rifle and pistol. The soldier and At
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: least four other people say they met men who either
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: showed id as Secret Service or said they were. All
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: but one of the encounters were in the parking lot
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: just west of the school Book Depository from where Lee
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald allegedly shot the president on November twenty second.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: All but one of the counterfeit agents wore business suits.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: One man was in sports clothes and had quote dirty
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: looking hands or dirty fingernails, according to a Dallas policeman
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: who confronted him up there, but none of the twenty
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: eight Secret Service agents protecting the president were on foot
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: at the scene shortly before or after the shooting. None
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: in the presidential motorcade stayed at the scene of the shooting,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: and none entered the school Book Depository building at or
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: immediately after the shooting, and none went running up to
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: the Grassy Knoll. Secret Service procedure requires that each agent
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: stay with the person being protected and not be diverted
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: unless it is necessary to accomplish the protective assignment. So
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Gordon Arnold, a former Dallas soldier, said that he was
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: stopped by a man wearing a light colored suit as
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: he was walking behind the fence on top of the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Grassy nole minutes before the assassination. Arnold, now an investigator
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: for the Dallas Department of Consumer Affairs, was not called
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: by the Warrant Commission and has not been interviewed by
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: the HSCA. Arnold said he was moving toward the railroad
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: bridge over the Triple Underpass to take movie film of
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: the motorcade when quote, this guy just walked toward me
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and said that I shouldn't be up there. Unquote. I
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: challenged him, and he showed me a badge and said
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: he was with the Secret Service and that he didn't
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: want anybody up there. Arnold then retreated to the front
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: of the picket fence high up on the grassy knoll,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: just to the west of the pergola on the north
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: side of Elm Street.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: And Rob, just I want to make a note that
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: he does say showed me a badge and that he
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: was with the Secret Service, because this will change a little.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Bit, yes, and and I'd rather watch the video and
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: let him tell his story for the rest of this.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But okay, again, I think it's important that we see
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: what he says now in nineteen seventy eight versus the video,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: which is probably fifteen years after he tells this story
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: because detailers are important folks, for sure. But what he
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: says briefly here, He said, he had just gotten out
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: of basic training and in my mind live ammo was
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: being fired. It was being fired over my head and
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I hit the dirt. Arnold, then twenty two, said the
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: first shot came from behind the fence, close enough for
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: me to fall down on my face. He stayed there
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: for the duration of the shooting. His prone position under
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: the shade of a tree may have locked away his
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: story for fifteen years. As the Warrant Commission and later
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: other assassination researchers scanned photographs and movie footage of Daly
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Plaza for witnesses to the shooting, the first two shots
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: that Arnold heard did not come from the Depository building because, quote,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't hear a whiz go over the top of
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: your head like that, No shit, And see, he says,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I say a whiz, but you don't really hear a
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: whiz of a bullet. You just hear like a shock wave.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: You feel it, you feel something, and then a report
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: comes right behind it, and it's just like the end
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: of a muzzle blast. He said he heard two shots,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and then there was a blend of shots from a
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: single bolt action. He had to have been firing darn good,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: because I don't think anybody could fire that rapid a
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: bolt action. The next thing I knew, someone was kicking
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: my butt literally because he was in the pro position
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: yeah telling him to get up. Arnold said it was
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: a policeman. So now obviously this is a Dallas PD, right,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: we know they were up on the knoll after the shots,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and I told him to go jump in the river.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: And this other guy, a policeman, another policeman comes up
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: with a shotgun and he was crying and that thing
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: was waving back and forth, and I said, you can
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: have everything I got. Just point that thing somewhere else, sir.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: And this sounds overly dramatic. Arnold took his film from
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: the container and threw it at the policeman. It wasn't
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: worth three dollars and something to be shot. All I
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: wanted them to do was take that blooming picture film
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: and get out of here. Just let me go. That
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: shotgun and the guy crying over there was enough to
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: unnerve me for anything. Two days later, Arnold was on
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: a plane reporting for duty at Fort Wainwright and Alaska.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: He had not given police and Dealey Plaza his name
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: and never told a story to authorities because I heard
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: that there were a lot of people making claims about
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: pictures and stuff and they were dying sort of peculiarly.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: Can I stop you there? Yes, Yeah, the Goltz is
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: saying two days later he's on a plane to Alaska.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: When was that envelope dated to his sister twenty nine,
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: thirtieth thirtieth?
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: What was mailed on the thirtieth to his wife? Not
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: his sister? Oh, his wife. I'm sorry, it'd be kind
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: of weird if he was, you know, dangings, right, but.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Just pointing out that he obviously wasn't in Alaska then, right,
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Golds might have got that detail wrong.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Well, he was on the way. I think he's insinuating
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: that two days after the shooting is when he left
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Dallas to go to Alaska. Okay, he was making several stops,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: you know, such as from Toma or wherever he in
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Washington that he wrote that from.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems to me he might be trying to
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: like exaggerate it, like two days later he was in Alaska,
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: when like two days later he was on his way
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: to Alaska.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, we know there wasn't any secret
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: service anywhere in Dealey Plaza before or after the shots
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: were fired. That we know. I think that's been widely
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: established through testimony and everything that we know about that.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Now they try to bolster Gordon Arnold's observations with S. M. Holland,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: the supervisor you know of the railroad yard back there.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: And Holland in nineteen sixty four was asked by Samuel Stern,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: a Warren Commission assistant council if he spoke to the
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: three together, and he said two. There were two city
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: policemen and one man in plain clothes. Holland said, I
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: didn't tell him the man not in uniform. I talked
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: to the city policeman. Stern pressed further and asked if
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: he knew what the third man's affiliation was. Holland said
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: he didn't know, and Stern moved on to a different subject.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Now we know some of the Dallas cops were dressed
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: in a uniform, like Joe Smith, James Foster, and but
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: you also see people like Roger Craig up behind the
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: grassy knoll in plain clothes you know, he was with
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: the Sheriff's office, but he wasn't wearing like his deputy
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: uniform or nothing. And we know that because we've seen
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: pictures of Roger Craig from that day and he's in
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: plain clothes.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: Wasn't Joe Smith the one that that Dallas Copp that
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: actually said someone showed him secret Service credentials?
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's one of the Yeah, he was definitely here.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: So that's that's corp you know, corroborative a lot or corroboration. Yes,
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: that's a yes word. Probably wasn't a word.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: And I believe uh, the police officer that was because
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: there was an officer stationed up on the Triple Overpass,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: and I think that was officer James White, James C. White.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I believe her, And uh.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's who Stern was asking Holland about if he
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: if she saw these three people together, but he said
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: he only saw two of them together, and then he
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: had he tells the story of Tom Tilson and Gene Hill. Again,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: gene Hill allegedly ran into somebody with secret Service identification
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: and all that jazz.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: Now, yep, I have a couple of first statements A little.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Later, we've talked about the mystery secret Service agent on
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: the Knowle for sure, and happened to have a couple
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: examples of said possible secret Service agent on the knowel.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: This is I believe Joe from the John Martin footage.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: John Martin Jr.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm not being facetious here. I think this
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: is from his movie. It might be. I'm not a
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: herb for sure, Yeah, but I mean you can see
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: where the guys walking in between or at the end
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: of the fence there that would be where the steps
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: go down to Elm Street. And this is kind of
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: like the corner, the backside of the corner, and you
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: see I think that's Officer Joe Smith right there with
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: his arm out right, and he's talking to a chick. Well,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: this dude is walking in between them and he's kind
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: of mysteriously holding carrying a overcoat or something over his
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: arm right now. One of the people who said that
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: they encountered this secret Service agent on the knoll was
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: that he had a firearm underneath the jacket. They can
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: see the barrel right And also from the same film
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: a couple of frames later, right mhm, we see the
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: same figure with a very odd package. It's actually from
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: a different angle because you can see Officer Smith behind him, right. Yeah, So,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: and there appears to be something bulky under this jacket
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: other than just the dude's arm. You see what I'm saying.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And of course, why would you need an overcoat.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: On top of your overcoat and a hat? Yeah?
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: And and and also Gordon Arnold in the article you
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: you've read a couple of minutes ago, describe someone in
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: a light colored.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Suit, right, And it's definitely light colored compared to the
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: cops dark colored uniform.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: Right. Definitely.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not black or even you know, dark gray
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: or navy blue or anything like that. It's definitely a
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: light colored suit. Now, this picture to the right of
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: this split screen here, I'm not sure what we're looking at,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: but according to this photo, it is another person that
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: was suspicious up on the knoll, that had a knapsack
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: or a backpack on that was kind of walking around
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: and looking suspicious. But I don't know what that is.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, I mean, we do see whoever this
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: guy was, uh uh, And I don't know who he was.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I wish we did, yeah, and I wish we did
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: because it might shed some light on some things. But
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you know, back then, Joe, it was so easy to
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: impersonate people because they just took for granted that you
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: weren't lying, you know. I mean, you could pull out
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: a fake badge like back off Secret Service, flip flip,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: you know, and nobody would question you.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: Right, look the part beat the part, yeah, mother.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: And remember a couple episodes ago, the dude was running
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: his metal detector over the grass, you know, and found
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: a bunch of those little American flag pins. That's the
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Secret Service would like penal on their lapels. They would
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: distinct them as Secret Service agents to each other, you know.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: So you know, there's some things about Gordonnald's story that
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: seemed legit, and there's some things that are just like,
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, bruh. And I did pin a comment
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: here from tiny It says, isn't that also approximately where
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: the additional pool of blood was purported to have been?
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at the top of the steps, like right there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: We did a stick stick something sticky and daily Plaza
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I'm trying to think of the name of
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: that photographer who I talked with, Alex Harris about who
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: who took that picture.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I think it was it was Coal something Coal. Jerry Cole.
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: Might have been. I'm not sure. For some reason, I'm
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: thinking of a different name, or maybe I'm confused Jerry Cole. Okay,
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: But yeah, that that is exactly where. That is tiny
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: for sure.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: And uh and there was also reports of a Secret
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Service agent dying in Dealey Plaza in the early news reports.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true too.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Who knows what the hell is going on up there.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: But we're you know, we're trying to focus on the
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Gordon Arnold's story.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, story, Frankie g what's up, sir, he goes. I
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: listened to Gordon Arnold's interview with the sixth Form Museum website.
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: For what it's worth, his account was quite detailed. Of course,
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: that could just mean he's extremely creative, fabulous. Yeah, we're
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: gonna we're gonna see him in a second.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: He got real emotional and the men who killed Kennedy
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: when he saw that Badgeman image of him, supposedly for
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: the first time. Yeah, he basically said, you know, if
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: he knew that he was apture that brought out of
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: that picture, that he never would have agreed to do
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: the interview for whatever reason, and he kind of broke
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: down crying. Yeah, because finally, all these years nobody believed
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: his story because he wasn't captured in any films or pictures,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you know, here he
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: is in living color for the first time. And it's
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: not just this picture. There was a guy back in
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: the nineties by the name of Thomas Wilson who was
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: a very early pioneer at computer enhancement with photographs, and
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: he also managed to bring out an image of Gordon
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Arnold in the Mormon photograph. So, and if I'm thinking correctly,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: maybe there was one other one that showed him on
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: the ground. I want to say there was, and I
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: tried to find it, but I couldn't find it. Some
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: of the shit is so buried and it could take
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: you hours just to try to find something you're looking for.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: But it's so good like this. But yeah, I'm sure
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: if you went over to the education form and put
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: in Gordon Arnold and and Tom Wilson that you could
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: find this image. Just didn't have time to actually find it.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: But so there is some corroboration to Gordon Arnold's story. Yep.
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: Maybe, yeah, yep, we'll we'll get to I have Jeane Hill's.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And he's also accused of being the Black dog Man.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Fill a slide, the infamous Black dog Man because he's
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: kind of in the right position. But again, that image
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: is way too out of focus and no detail to
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: even say that with any diffinity. That's that's Gordon Arnold.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, you're gonna have to maybe explain this
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: black dog Man because I've heard of him, but like,
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: I just I don't get it. But before that, Kat
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: Teddy Steve has a good question, why was he wearing
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: the uniform unless he was stationed nearby and was just
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: off duty or going on duty.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Well, he's wearing a uniform because he had just finished
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: finished basic training.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: Right, but he's on leave, is I think what he's
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: saying so right, I don't.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Think he went home yet, or I mean, I don't
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: know if he had a home, I don't know. Yeah,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: or maybe he wanted to wear his uniform because he
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: was proud or the President's coming by.
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah you're proud you just graduated bracist parents. Yeah, I
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: don't know. I just wanted to because that's a good point,
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: and I was wondering the same thing myself.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I'm saying there's three pibilities. He wanted to show some
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: pride in his country and wear his uniform, or he
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: had just got done with basic training. Or he's on
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: his way out of town and that's how Well, that's
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: how soldiers traveled back then, they wore their uniforms in public.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean two days later, I guess he
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: was out of town according to Coles. But what we'll
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: see Yarborough and I want to start these comments, Rob
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: because I want to talk about this later. Because Yarborough statements,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: which we will get into in this video clip we're
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: going to play, corroborates Arnold's statements. Yeah, and yes, he
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: is extremely credible. But I want to discuss would Yarborough
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: be even in the position in the motorcade to look
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: to his right and see Arnold at the position that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: he alleged he was, or was other people just hitting
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: the ground. So I want to debate this. I don't know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: but this is something I want to get into later.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: So don't well he was in the car with Johnson.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, because that was the whole argument with Yarborough
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: versus Connolly.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Right, And they're in the back seat, right, there's so
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: that you have Yarborough, Rufie's youngblood and and Johnson on
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: the back seat.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: But how many cars back from Kennedy?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I think there wasn't the car behind the Queen Mary
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: because as they're turning the corner, they're in that white car.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: So is that two cars behind? JFK three?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: Two? Okay, okay, got it?
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were pretty close and he would have,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: you know, definitely noticed that. Maybe I don't know.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know either. I I just it's a good
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: discussion point that I saw debated. So why don't we uh,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: why don't we? Those are all the star comments. I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: have the other article, the follow up article, But why
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: don't we get Do you want to get to the video? Yeah?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Right from the horse's mouth, Joe, Yeah, let's do that.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: We can scaffooz all night about this, but let's hear
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: from man himself, because I think it's important when you're
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: talking about what these witnesses saw that you hear it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: in their own voice, right. That way, you can have
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: better judgment on whether or not to believe them.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, the credibility.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people think that they're pretty
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: good judges of character can basically figure out if people
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: are lying or not due to little tells eye contact movement,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: hand movement, blinking, whatever the case may be. So let's
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: hear from the man himself. Now this is a approximately
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: eight minutes long, so I apologize in advance if it
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: gets If it gets weak, i'll stop it because I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: haven't watched the entire thing yet.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: No, it's all pretty good. I think it has yar
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: Borough in it too, and it's.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Pretty so it's worth an eight minute watch. So we'll
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: be back in eight short minutes.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: Folks, bathroom break. I'm just kidding.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll be here auditorily.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: In your yes, yes, positive positive, if you want to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: discuss them.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So here we go.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 10: On that particular morning, what happened was I came downtown
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 10: and I thought there was going to be a parade, prade.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 10: So what I did was I parked my vehicle back
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 10: here in this parking lot, and I intentionally walked to
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 10: this particular corner because I wanted to take a pictures
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 10: of the parade off of the railroad bridge. Well, this
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 10: is about as far as I got, because what happened
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 10: is when I got my leg to about this position.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 10: A man came around the corner off the bridge, had
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 10: a suit on, and he turned around and he told
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 10: me that I wasn't going to be there. And I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 10: guess I was younger and more spunky at that time,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 10: because I told him, you and who else.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Are going to keep me off the bridge?
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: And he pulled out.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 10: Identification card and he said I'm with the CIA. And
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 10: I said, well, that's enough, muscle, I'll leave. So I
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 10: turned around and brought my leg back over like this,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 10: and I walked down.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: The fence line. No first anomaly, Joe, What did you
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: just say?
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: He said he was with the CIA.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now in nineteen seventy eight, he said, the guy
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: said he was with.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: The Secret Service.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that the guy he encountered when he
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: was trying to go up there was a police officer.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: He said, badge and Secret Service. He sent them both.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I think in the original article.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll guibble, Chuck, but.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Here it is. The man showed me a badge and
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: said he was with the Secret Service, and then he
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: didn't want anybody up there. Now it's the CIA fifteen
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: years later. Keep that in mind, folkus. Yes, details are everything.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 10: Yes, even here about halfway and I was looking over
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 10: the fence to see if I could get a good
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 10: shot of the parade. And he come back up and
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 10: he told me. He says, I told you to get
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 10: out of this area, and I said, okay, So I
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 10: walked the complete went to the fence, got around on
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 10: the other side. That's when I started to line up
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 10: my frame so that I could take the picture of
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 10: the parade. I had been panting shots through here so that.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I could get whatever was going to come down the street.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 10: And I saw that it was the President of the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 10: United States, and I said, I was panning down this direction.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 10: Just as I got to about this position, a shot
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 10: come right past my left ear and would have had
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 10: to come from this direction. And that's when I fell down.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 10: And to me, it seemed like a second shot was
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 10: at least fired over my head.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Which there's a bunch of report going on. And this
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: now real quick. We saw the pic. I showed you
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: the picture in nineteen seventy eight where he said he
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: was standing, which is at the corner of the retaining
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: wall at the top of the steps. Now fifteen years later,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: he's around of the grassy knoll won the knoll at
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: the top of it, because as he panned the camera
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: shot and when he just said, you know, I was
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: lining up my camera and panting, you could see the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: corner of the retaining wall some ten feet in front
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: of him. So he's moved positions. Fifteen years later, okay,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: just saying, here we go in.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 10: This particular area at that time, and what had happened
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 10: was that well, I was laying on the ground. It
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 10: seemed like a gentleman came from this particular direction, and
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 10: I thought it was a police officer because he had
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 10: a uniform a police officer, but he didn't wear a hat,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 10: and he had dirty hands. But it didn't really matter
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 10: much at that time because with him crying like he was,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 10: and with him shaking when he had the weapon in
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 10: his hand, I think I gave almost anything except the
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 10: camera because that.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Was my mother's.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 10: And literally what the man did was kicked me and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 10: asked me if I was taking a picture. I told
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 10: him that I was, and when I looked at the weapon,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 10: it was about that big a round and I decided
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 10: I'd let him go ahead and have the film. I
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 10: gave it to him, and then he went back off.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Now what kind of weapon is that fucking big a round?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: Joe, I don't know.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking cannon. I mean, like now, in
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: the goals article he said it was a shotgun. Well
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: we know JFKA didn't gets shot with a shotgun. Right
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: right now, folks, you have to remember what time period
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: we're in here. Okay, we're late eighties, early nineties. We're
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: in prime Roscoe White territory when that story was coming out,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: and he was being fingered as badge Man. And as
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: you remember from the picture of badge Man, he's not
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: wearing a hat. And in Roscoe White's memoirs, you know,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: he said he was very upset about having to shoot
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: the president. You know, so these little details about you know,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the guy was crying and this and that. It's very
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: very odd. But and why would you even notice if
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: a cop has dirty hands or not. I mean, the
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: guy's laying on his on his stomach, dicking the dirt,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: facing the dirt, the guy's kicking his ask telling him
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: to get up and hand me the film, but you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: notice he has dirty hands?
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: Like really, Rob, do you know when the first reports
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: because I've heard this, of course, a ton of the
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: policeman with no hat with dirty hands came out. Was
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: it from Arnold or did he pick up that.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Someone else for maybe from the Roscoe White narrative, I
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: don't know, maybe from Jean Hill. Hell, I don't know.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: I think Gene Hill said something similar. And then, of course,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: years years later she said, you know, oh, it was
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: Roscoe White behind the the fence. I knew him, I
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: knew who he was, and I was just scared to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: say something earlier. But I don't know, man, I don't know,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: but let's continue here.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 10: In this direction. I went in this direction. Three days later,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 10: I was on Alaska and I didn't come back to
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 10: the United States for about eighteen months.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 11: We spent a lot of time studying the picture and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 11: looking at little details, and I guess in the back
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 11: of our minds was a story that had come out
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 11: four years earlier by a man named Gordon Arnold, who
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 11: claimed to be a witness to the assassination and claimed
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 11: to have been standing up by the fence and there
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 11: was a light blob of something very close to where
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 11: Badgeman was.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, weren't sure what it was.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 11: But gradually, as details started coming out with Jack's photo, work.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 11: We realized that this image was probably Gordon Arnold, and
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 11: here's a guy who had told his story just to
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 11: an acquaintance and was overheard, and that story went off
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 11: to the news media and Gordon Arnold was interviewed and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 11: it appeared in the newspaper that he had been at
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 11: the scene and was in that location. But no one
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 11: believed him because there were no photographs or films that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 11: showed a man in that position. But all of a sudden,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 11: picture confirmed his story. And again the interesting part is
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 11: that Gordon Arnold's story came out four years before we
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 11: noticed the appearance of this figure in the Mormon photograph.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 8: We'd later learned that Arnold was wearing this army cap
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 8: that had a slight point at the top and a
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 8: medallion on the right hand side that said the US Army,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 8: and it's exactly what we see in the photograph. We
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 8: also know that Gordon Arnold was filming the scene with
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 8: a movie camera, and that's exactly what the photograph shows,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 8: because we see the right arm of the person in
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 8: this position with his hand up toward his face and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 8: what appears to be obstructing his face something perhaps like
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 8: a movie camera.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: The training that I had just finished.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 10: They were shooting live ammunition. And when a bullet goes
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 10: past your ear and your ear drum feels like it's
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 10: coming on the other side of your head.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: It's close. That's why I thought I was shot.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 10: That stumped out in my mind that I was there,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 10: and it did occur.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 12: During that shooting. My eye was attracked to the right
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 12: or saw a movement and a sore man just jump
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 12: about ten feet like at the whole time, flying tackle
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 12: in football and land against the wall. I thought to myself,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 12: there's an infantryman who's either been shot at in combatter,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 12: he's been trained thoroughly. The minute you hear fire, get
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 12: under cover.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 10: It looks like a soldier and you know, summer uniform
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 10: with an overseas cap honk. It looks like it would
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 10: have been my my uniform. That looks like they said,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 10: a camera. But there's something up in front of the face.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Looks like a h a white spot.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: If it's a.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 10: Flash, it would be like off of the a muzzle flash.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 10: This looks like a police officer because it that would
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 10: be the badge, that would be the arm emblem.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: Would would this.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 10: Fella back here be the Uh, the railroad man. I
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 10: asked you about this morning because when I.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Was walking.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 10: To the site and I I have never told anybody
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 10: that I had. When we were out there filming it,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 10: it reminded me that the there was a m h
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 10: a railroad worker just standing out there by the railroad tracks.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: But that it it.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 10: It looks like somebody's taking a a picture. Yeah, I
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 10: couldn't figure out why why would I be standing and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 10: crooked until I flip that up. And if that's a
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 10: muzzle blast or flash, then whoever's standing there would have
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 10: been a fool to stand up straight. He'd be trying
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 10: to get away from harm's way, is what it boils
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 10: down to. It thinks like if somebody standing in and
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 10: that could very well be me, so of a con
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 10: that would be the closest thing. And I've ever, to
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 10: be honest with you, the picture bothers me because if
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 10: if this is uh a true thing of what what
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 10: has occurred, then I.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 13: Could be the only one that.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: S suck a man.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 13: Uh, I killed the president. And to be honest with you,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 13: if I'd have known this, how would be given me
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 13: an I interview? Cause that that hits too close to home.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 12: Right now.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 11: If the figure is real, then that means the witnesses
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 11: were correct and the researchers who have spoken of conspiracy
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 11: for twenty five years now were also correct. It means
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 11: the Warren Commission was wrong. There was a conspiracy. The
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 11: question then is who was involved in the conspiracy, And
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 11: alongside with that is was Lee Harvey Oswalt involved.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: In the conspiracy? Uh?
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 11: One of the good things the Warren Commission did was
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 11: literally itemized the last few days of Lee Harvey Oswald's life,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 11: and the problem for the Warrant Commission now would become, well,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 11: he had no opportunity to be with other people to
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 11: plan something like this, So we now have to wonder seriously,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 11: perhaps for the first time, whether Lee Harvey Oswald even
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 11: fired any shots.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: All right, let me figure out how to get this
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: off the damn screen.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: Bro, he's emotional. I mean, if if he's acting, he
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: should have been gone into Hollywood instead of the military,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: because because that convinced me. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: and if you did experience something like that, you would
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: be emotional like that, right.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: And by the way, I love conspiracy Gary.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 7: Mack, yeah right, or consiracy at Macy Yeah, I almost
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 7: like didn't even recognize him, And it like sometimes surprises
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 7: me how how conspiracy leaning he was in I.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: Guess the late eighties or whatever this was. But yeah,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: that's a that's a crazy video. And you know, the
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: Yardborough thing is is definitely helps his case if he
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: saw Arnold ah or did he see someone else kind
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: of covering, you know, dropping for cover And I don't know, people.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: See things in these photos all the time. You know,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: you saw how vague the Badgeman photo is without colorized
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: enhancement to properly bring out the details to make it
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: what it is. But Gary mac made a good point
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: by saying that Gordon Arnold's story came out before the
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Badgeman part of the Mormon photograph was enhanced. And I
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: don't know what else you could say. That figure is,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: I mean with the pointy hat, the hand up to
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: the face like he's filming something.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: His hand is definitely up to his face with without
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: a doubt whoever that person is he was doing this. Yeah,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 4: that that you know, that was without a question in
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: my pedion.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Now the other details about running into secret service and
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: cops and people taking his film, who knows if that's
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: real or not, you know, because you think other people
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: would say that they saw that, you know, because that
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: was not behind the picket fence, that was in front
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: of the pick and fence. So you would think people
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: would say that they saw a police officer accosting an
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: enlisted man at the top of the hill right and
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: taking his you know, taking his film. I would think
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: that that'd be an important detail that somebody in dealing
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Plaza would have seen. I mean, there's three fucking guys
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: on the steps right at the time of the shots,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: including Emit Hudson, who was the caretaker, one of the
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: caretakers for you know, Daley Plaza. I'm not sure who
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: the other two guys are, but they didn't mention anything
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: about like this and their testimony about an enlisted man,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: at least that I'm aware of. I think one of
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: the people in the steps they never identify, but there
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: was Emmit Hudson, and I think one other person was
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: identified as well. But you know, it's just I don't know,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to make Gordon Donald man.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: Brow, I'm right there with you. I have some comments
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: starred and then I have some pictures we can get
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: into and uh, I might be able to blow them
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: up a little more.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: Roger Thacker, Hey, guys, watching from greg Rapids, Michigan here.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: Love your show. Thank you sir, and thank you for watching.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Watch out for the Michigan Crafords up there.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 4: Umbrella man, he wore his uniform to meet his mother
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: who worked in the dal text building. Interesting. I had
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: not heard that before, but I know you've had some
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: brilliantsightful comments in the past, so I'm not going to
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: doubt you there.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: If anybody would know, he would the umbrella man.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it wasn't far from the umbrella
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 4: man right right, you are. Borough could have been referring
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: to Bill Newman. He could have. And that's and that's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: the whole point, as we don't really know.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: And I was trying to find human like an enlisted man.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 4: No, no, And I think he would have your Borough
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: would have said, he would have mentioned that the kid,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: you know, him covering the kid type of thing.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: I just happened to have a picture of this, Joe Okay.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: I captured a still from the Bronson film Oh okay.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Now this picture shows a lot of interesting things except
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: for the part that is in question. Here which would
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: be a little more western of the the grassy knoll.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: What it does show us is a different perspective on
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: the relative positions of everybody here. Okay, so the lady
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: in the red coat right is obviously Jean Hill, yes,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: to her left, and the black coat is Mary Mormon.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: Directly across the street are the Newman's and their two children. Okay,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: Bill and Gale Newman right. I'm not sure who the
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: two people directly to their left is not. It looks
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: like now directly across from the women you have Charles
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: Bremm and his son right, and of course and of
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: course the Babushka lady lurking behind them, still filming or
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: taking pictures. Well, I guess not still, but this is
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: before the president has passed by, So Mormon would not
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: take her famous for photograph until the president had passed
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: by her position she was pointing in the direction more
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: of the grists are coming down the street. This would
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: have likely been right around the time of the first
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: shot at this point shot Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can see. Uh,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: you can see the dark complexed man with his blue
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: shirt and black pants. That motherfucker the street like he's
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: not standing on the sidewalk or the grass. He's in
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: the fucking street with his fists raised up.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: Right. You could have just had you could have just
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: had a shotgun or even a pistol in your in
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: your pocket and popped Kennedy.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you can see the umbrella man directly behind
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: him at the edge of the sidewalk and the grass
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: with his umbrella.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: Two people above the umbrella man.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: Uh, look letter jackets on. They were skipping school that
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: day or something like that.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: Hey, I would have skipped school for that.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're kind of up more at the pergola
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: right now. You can see uh, Marilynd Sitzman and Abraham's
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: a Pruder on the other pedestal over to the left
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: one right, Yeah, you can make them out.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: The rest of these people, I'm not one hundred percent
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: sure who they are, just making their way over to
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Elm Street right before the volley of shots just kicks off. Right,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: this is probably the time of the first shot.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: So Arnold would have been to the left of Suppruder
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: for the way we're looking.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: At the picture on Yeah, he would have been.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, right of Supprove or to the left as
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: we're looking at this.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Picture, correct, Yeah, yeah, yea. So that's just for perspective of.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: Nice and you know what, I wanted to show you
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 4: something else, for a perspective that I didn't even know
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: you could do, but I figure this is a good
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: time to do it. Here.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: You can't you can't do that on television show.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: But oh sorry, I missed it.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: It was a great Canadian TV show in the eighties.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: So when you go to the sixth Floor Museum website, right,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: they have this whole you know, thirty five page or
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: picture timeline of you could see where Kennedy landed love Field,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: where his motorcade went right here, down through Oaklawn, Harwood
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: District and then comes along and then eventually goes through
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: Dalley Plaza. Well, check this out. This is cool. Isn't
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: this cool?
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: Sorry? Yeah, welcome to three D modeling? Yes, uh so
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: it kind of shows you where witnesses were or for
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: people filming, or where are we looking at here?
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're looking at Orville where Orville Nicks was
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 4: filming Bronson Hughes. Obviously it's a cruiter here. You can
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: see the pergola, and of course it doesn't have defense
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: because it's for a museum, but it doesn't have any
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: good detail around here. But this would have been the
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 4: general area of where Arnold said he was. Yes, and
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: I just thought that was really cool to do three
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: D and look through everything going all the way through
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 4: the parade route.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a very much more rudimentary sure illustration
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: of the Gordon Arnold position. Yeah, not to scale. So
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: A in the key would be Arnold and where he
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: said he was standing, which is as you can see
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: at the corner or back by the fence, but not
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: in front of the fence, kind of in between the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: portion of the fence that goes back into the parking
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: lot and the concrete barrier right at the top of
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: the steps. Well no, I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, so that's
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: that's the sidewalk once you get to the top of
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: the steps, and then immediately to the right of the
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: sidewalk there's a corner of the deal. Now b would
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: have been Badgeman. So you always think of the shooter
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: being behind the other side of the fence, right, But
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: now they're saying that this is the position of badgemn Okay, interesting, Yeah,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: and that the w is Roscoe White, So they're saying
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: that badge man is not Roscoe White, it was a
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: different cop. Now, this is the time in the early
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: nineties when the Roscoe right White story was coming out
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: and the Gordon Arnold story was coming out, So of
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: course they're so similar. They tried to bolster the two
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: by marrying them together in the narrative. And the X
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: is according to Roscoe White's narrative, where his accomplice or
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: spot her or the person making him shoot would have
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: been right next to him there along this portion of
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: the wall. So again, this is from Dave Perry in
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, and it is not to scale because.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: He is not a good drawer, but either Mike, yeah.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Nary perspective if you will, because when you're talking about
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: perspective in this case is everything. And then I kind
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: of blew this up a little more, this portion, so
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: you try to get a better look. But yeah, I mean,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: it looks like are in uniform with a camera up
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: to his face. But again, is this paradelia? I don't know.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: Is this his leaves in a tree and branches and
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: that they put color on in a human form? Who
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: the fuck knows?
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: Who the fuck knows, I don't know, Yeah, slacker Dan,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 4: I started as comment, I've never been totally convinced about
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: this guy, to be honest, Yeah, as you could tell,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: neither are we. It's intriguing, but.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of fakers out there that that you can
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: see through immediately and realize they're full of shit, very
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: like Beverly Oliver Judy Baker, even though they might seem sincere.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Like Judy Baker seems sincere at times and gets very
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: emotional about certain things. But it's an act and this
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: could be the same thing. I don't know, or it
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: could be sincere. I don't know. I'm not that big
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: of a judge of his character. Now, I do know
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: that the guy never wrote a book or tried to
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: write a book. But but I'll put the big butt
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: out there if you go back and watch the movie JFK.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: He is in the movie, his character and Oliver Stone
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: did meet with him in Dallas, because the guy lived
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: in Dallas, and Oliverstone put this figure in the movie.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: He met with Oliver Stone.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not know that.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: Interesting, Wow, And kay, what's up buddy? And he brings
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: up a good point. No cia man would ever say that,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: come on, and that would be identifying yourself as a
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: CIA man, and I I agree with NK here. All right,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: you don't really say I'm CIA.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: No, you would you if you were CIA, you would
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: have like local law enforcement credentials. It's gonna look with police.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 4: You can't be back here, especially if you were up
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: to something sus a CIA. You would not say that.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: But Beverly Oliver said the same stupid thing when she
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: said that the CIA guy came to take her film
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: at the club and he said, I'm with CIA, give
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: me your film. Nobody would say that, right.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: Paul said he could have just misspoke, like Joe saying
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: RB instead of HCA.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: It's quite possible.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 4: It's quite possible. I do it every week.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: And by the way, by the way, what's going on
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: with this motherfucker Saints hat? Because I seen it in
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: the video? All right?
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: First of all, no Leans, New Orleans Saints.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: It's the wrong color for the football team, right, It's
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: got to be New Orleans because it's got the logo
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: and everything, right, But it's a red and white hat.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think the Saints where the Saints ever red
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: and white.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 14: I'm looking at them, and he has a fucking feather
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 14: in his hat, Joe, I see that one big yellow
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 14: fucking feather right here, Like, what is that?
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 12: Like?
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a boy Scout hat first when
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: I first saw it, you know, because the boy Scout
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: logo is kind of the same, but it plainly says
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Saints and not boy Scouts. That's why I was thinking
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: he might have a feather in it too. You know,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: maybe he's like on the feather level or something whatever.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 4: But these are the Saints' logos. I guess I'm just
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 4: googling this. But but yeah, it's this, it's this logo, right,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: but it's but listen, there's a bunch of different Jack
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 4: Taylor maybe can help us here, but you know, there's
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 4: there's always like different Like even if like say, like
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: the Giants at the New York Giants are like blue
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: and red, like they'll have like a yellow hat or
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: some variation of that, it wouldn't be normal. But it's not.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: And it also could be.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: What they did back then though, you know, like go
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: too far off the color scheme.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 4: That's true. It also could be a local high school
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: team too. I mean, you never know, you know, Scott
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 4: if he was on the ground after the first shot,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: he wouldn't be in the photo during the headshot. And yeah,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 4: that's what I don't want to say, the Gordon Arnold
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 4: defender say, but yeah, they say, like, of course he
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: isn't in the shot because he hit the ground right.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: And right after the first shot he hit he hit
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: the dirt right right.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 4: Which is why the Yarborough thing is so interesting to me,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: is if you're two cars back from Kennedy at that
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: point and you showed a picture of where he was at,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: would you even be able to see him from there
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: unless you're looking like.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: Like really far up.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 4: You know, You're not looking just to your right, You're
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: looking like two cars up and on the on the
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: you know, on the knoll, on the hill. That's that's
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: the thing that gets me. I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you got to figure like that Bronson picture
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: I showed you where they hadn't got to Mary Mormon yet,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: so that I'd say Yarborough probably probably would have been
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: right there at the time of the shots, because the
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: President's limousine would have been already out of frame to
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: the left, and Mormon would have turned that way to
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: take her picture. So you and the secret Service car
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: was pretty fucking close to the to the limo, like
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: within a couple of feet. So the third car back
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: would probably have been where the limo was in that picture.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I would say, would you say yardbor would
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: have been like uh kind of like directly in front
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: of the TSBD steps.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: No, he would have been further down Elm Street.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 4: Oh you think so? Yeah, Okay, I'm I'm imagining it
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: like he would have been back that far. And I
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 4: don't know. I actually looked for some diagram of this.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: I couldn't find it, but that's what I was wondering
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: in my head.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, like if you watch the Priter film and
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: you see how close I'm and you you were seeing
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: where everybody is situated right and how close to Serve
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: the follow up car was, and then LBJ is right
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: behind that in that car. So again, he would have
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: probably been kind of right where dark complected man and
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: umbrella man were standing when when when the head shot hit.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: So if he saw something jump up on the No,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: he would definitely would have seen it.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah if he If he was there, then yes, I
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: just for some reason imagined him being a little further
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 4: back in my head again, there's no there's no science
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: to this. You guys should read the transcript of the
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 4: sixth Floor Museum interview of Gordon Arnold's wife and children.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: And I did put that link in the description. Was
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: a double b asked for it. It's some messages up.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: But and the Saints logan has never been in red
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: and white, They've always been black and gold. Yeah, I
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: asked Roc.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 15: So, okay, you'd be amazed, Paula James says, at.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: The number of people claiming to be witnesses. I lived
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 4: in Dallas thirty nine years. They're everywhere. Yeah, And that's
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 4: the problem is you don't really know like who in
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 4: their later life is trying to gain a little publicity
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 4: or whether they were actually scared and scared to come forward.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: And you know dudes in the military.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a difference between witnesses and people claiming fantastical shit. Okay,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: like Jean Hills claimed some fantastical shit. But you know what,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: it's undisputed she was there. I mean, right, that's und
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: Beverly Oliver claims fantastical shit, doubt that the Bushka Lady
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: was her. In fact, I'm not half point. I wasn't sure,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: but Busk Lady was not her right. And then you
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: know Gordon Onod's not claiming he was just standing on
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: the knowle taking a film and nobody did anything and
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: he didn't really see or hear anything. He's claiming some
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: fantastical shit, right, But.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: I'm saying that's the problem, is that the people to
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: come out and claim things and makes it so difficult
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: to ascertain the people that aren't if they are or not.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 4: But I get it, like.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Difference between people who said we were there and this
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: is what we saw, yes, actually involving themselves in the
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: narratives of the stories.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, But then there's the point where there was no
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 4: documentation on Gordon Arnold with the DPD. There's no witness statement.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 4: The HSCA didn't even choose to it. Sure few them. Okay,
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 4: after this Goals article came out, so was heat for
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: what it was worth.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: He called it to the mock trial. Did he do
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: the mock trial with Buglios? I don't know. I have
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: no idea Tom Tilson did, which is another one of
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: Goals's story storylines. Yeah, Gordon as well.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but my point is that there there is no
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: as we like to look at early documentation day of
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: day of weekend of before the warrant commission. You know,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 4: documents flying everywhere. This guy saw this, This guy's film
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: was taken. We just discussed the Doyles, right, Doyle said
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: his film was edited. We have Doyle's witness statements a
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 4: couple of days after the assassination. We have the corresponding
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 4: documents of his film being taken being returned. That's the problem.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, It's also be ready by the other guy
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: who had his film taken by the FBI and edited
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: and returned to him. So the same thing happened to
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: two different people that didn't talk to.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: Each other, right, right, right, So it's a little different.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: So that's why Gordon Arnold's story is so I don't
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 4: want to say controversial, but just it's just it's up
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: in the air, at least to me right now. So
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: I just want to get through a couple of things.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 4: Rob his camera. This is this is on the sixth
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 4: floor website. Wolfsanak seventy three lens turret may as well
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 4: be a gun eight millimeter camera with the original cardboard
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 4: box owned by Garden Arnold. According to Arnold, he had
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 4: this camera in Dealy Plaza November twenty second, and filmed
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 4: the Porsche of the Kenning assassination while standing near the
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: stockade fence on the Grassy Knoll. He reported he fell
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: to the ground during the shooting that was threatened by
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: a man wearing a Dallas police officer uniform who confiscated
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: the film. Just thought we'd like to see the camera.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: I guess it.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: I guess it's like donated to the sixth floor. It
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 4: must be there still unless they took it back.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: But I think it's just one like the one he had.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is an actual camera.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 4: It seems like it might have been, because do you
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 4: remember in the video he's like holding that camera.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know that one specifically, you know what.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 4: I'm sure if we watched that forty five minute interview
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 4: with his kids, we'd probably get the answer to that.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 4: But let's go to miss Jean Hill, shall we? And
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 4: her day of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three DPD
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 4: voluntary statement the Sheriff's Department, County of Dallas. Mary and
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 4: I were wanting to take place take some pictures of
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 4: the president, so we purposely tried to find a place
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 4: that was open where no people were around, and had
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 4: been standing halfway down toward the underpass and Elm Street
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 4: on the south side. We were the only people in
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 4: that area kind of, and we were standing right at
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: the curb. The President's car came around the corner and
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 4: it was just over on our side on the street.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 4: Just as Mary Mormon started to take a picture. We
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 4: were looking at the President and Jackie in the back seat,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: and they looking at a little dog between them.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 7: The fuck.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 12: Just as the.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: President looked up towards us, two shots rang out, and
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 4: I saw a president grab his chest and fall towards
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 4: across Jackie's lap, and she fell cross his back and said,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 4: my god, he has been shot, which we have heard before,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 4: so she was close enough to hear that. There was
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 4: an instant pause between the first two shots, and the
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 4: motorcade seemingly halted for an instant and three or four
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 4: more shots rang out and the motorcne kid sped away. Interesting.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: I didn't know she heard six or more shots. I
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 4: thought I saw some men in plain clothes shooting back,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 4: but everything was such a blur, and Mary was pulling
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: on my leg saying get down. Theory theory are shooting.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: They are shooting. Sorry, that's the typo. It's not me.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: I looked across the street and up the hill and
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: saw a man running towards the monument and started running
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 4: over there. By the time I got up to the
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 4: railroad tracks, there were some policemen that I supposed were
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 4: in the motorcade or near by had also arrived and
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 4: was turning us back. As I came back down the hill,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 4: mister Featherstone of the Times, Harold had gotten to Mary
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 4: and asked her for her pictures she had taken of
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: the President, and he brought us to the press room
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 4: down at the Sheriff's office and asked to stay. Sorry,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 4: grammar is not the best. It's not me. Forward a
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 4: few months later. This is March seventeen sixty four. This
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: is an FBI document a key person report in the
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 4: Warran Commission. Missus Jean Lawless Hill advised she and a friend,
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 4: Mary Mormon, were in the Vicinity of Maide in Houston
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 4: Streets on November twenty second, fifty three for approximately one
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 4: and one and a half hours before the arrival of
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: President JFK and this party. While waiting for the motorcate
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 4: to arrive at this location, missus Hill and Marianne walked
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 4: around the parkway to determine the best vantaged spot for
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 4: taking photographs. Missus Hill said she recalls taking talking to
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 4: an ununiformed policeman of the Dallas Police Department on the
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: sidewalk near the main entrance to the TSBD. While conversing
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 4: with his policeman, missus Hill noticed an automobile circling the area.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 4: The windows of the vehicle were covered with cardboard and
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 4: the name Honest Joe's Pond Shop was painted on the
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 4: side of the car. Miss Hill made a remark about
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 4: the automobile and the policeman told her the driver had
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 4: permission to drive in the area.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honest Joe's Pawn Shop was a legit pawnshop in Dallas.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: It was like some giant, gaudy air station wagon with
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: a giant, I don't know if it was real or fake,
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: big machine gun turret mounted to the top of it.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 4: Wait, a machine gun turret? Yeah, like a billboard No,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: like an actual turret. Yeah, and that was being allowed
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 4: to circle the area.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stop it, Joe, he was honest. Joe.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: I know all joes are honest, but.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: That is a great I don't think it was real,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: or it could be shot right, but cut off a
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: tank and welded to the top of this fucking thing
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: or something. I don't know.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you're the Secret Service and you don't
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 4: know honest Joe's pawnshop in Dallas, would you let that mat?
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: Would you say, oh, that guy's fine, unless I guess
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 4: she's saying the policeman knew it. I don't know. I
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 4: thought that was really funny. But her story changes a
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 4: little bit too.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 4: And let me just do a couple more pictures here, Rob,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 4: And we had already shown this, but this is I
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 4: blew it up a little bit, so it's not as
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: good as the picture of you show showed. But this
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 4: is Gordon Arnold and where he said he was. This
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 4: is also the Mormon photograph. And I can blow this up, Rob, right,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 4: I can't, Man. I don't know how they get Badgman
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 4: out of this.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: I told you, I don't know. If we're looking at
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Paradelia and you know.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: Oh, do they get it from here? Do they get
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 4: it from here? I really don't know's I've always been skeptical.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: It's the corner right here of the concrete wall, not
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: the wouldn't not the fence, all right, so blow that
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: picture like right there above the corner almost would be
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: the badge man and smoke. Okay, like right above the corner. Yeah,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: right in there, that'd be badge man. Then you would
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: have to go garden Gordon Arnold figure to that left
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: somewhere around there.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 4: Right, which is which is where he said he was
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 4: kind of standing, right.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: I don't be where they get the fucking railroad guy
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: with a hard hat.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 4: But I mean, I don't know. I don't know where
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 4: they had any of those three, to be honest. But
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 4: I am not a photographic express I will I will defer,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 4: but there's so this is uh uh god, I had
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: all these written down somewhere. So this is right after
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 4: the aftermath, right, you can see the right Newman's on
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 4: the ground, and it would have been somewhere here right well,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 4: would have been on the other side of that right
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: right right right, So yeah, especially if he was still
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 4: in the prone position, you would not see him.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas the pruter was standing is all the way
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: on the right on that pedestal. Yeah, that's what would
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: have been.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 4: He had gotten down at that point.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, Now go back to the picture you have
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: put up right before this one, maybe another one. This
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: is right?
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: Is that the right? Yeah? No, no, no, go forward
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: the Mormon photograph.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: All right. Now, in the very rudimentary sketch that I
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: showed you, Joe, you see where the corner of the
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: of the grassy knoll wooden fence is here. Yeah, and
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: you see how it goes back to the parking lot.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: All right. Now you see where these three scuffoozas are
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: standing on the steps. Yeah, all right. So Gordon Arnold
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: would have been up here just in front of the
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: wooden fence line as it goes back into the parking lot.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: So he wouldn't have been like on the grassy knoll side.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: He would have been like here, No, no, the corner
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: of the fence line. Find the corner of the fence
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: there you go, Now, go to your right a little bit. Yeah,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: he would have been right in there, somewhere to the
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: left of the steps. Yeah. Now, I believe more it
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: looks like there's somebody laying on the ground. You mean
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: right here, No, over to your right more on the
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: other side of the fence, at the part of the
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: fence is going back to the parking lot. Now move
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: your curve through the left more right there, blow that up. Now,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: do you see the guy or what it could be
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: a figure crouching in front of the fence or.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: I believe that more than than the Badman photo. There's
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: definitely an anomaly there in front of the fence line.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: Can't really make out.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 4: What it is there, seems like there's something right here.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like that, you know, maybe a head or something.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 4: That's That's what I was gonna say, I had it
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 4: looks like something like that.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it looks like a fucking pig, but it
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: also looks like somebody in the fetal position, like on
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: their knees. I can believe that might be Gordon Arnold
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: more than I believe that he's up there in the
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: fucking Badgman photo.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 4: Right, all right, Okay, yeah, no, it's uh, you know,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 4: it's it's hard with this this photography. Back then let's
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 4: go to this. This is either weig men or blow
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 4: that section up.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, but we're just looking.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 4: Of of course, just to context, right, this is about
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 4: the same time as the previous show photo we've been
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 4: talking about, right, with them taking pictures.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Of the They're still on the grounds the Cruis office pedestal.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: The three guys on the steps are starting to run
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: up the fucking steps.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 4: Were I don't see three guys run up steps.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: They're in the shadow there right beside the tree.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 4: Oh right here? Oh yeah, yeah yeah see see like
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 4: even them like are to.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: Tell are running across the street back up a little bit.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: The guy the officer with his back to us, Yeah,
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: that's Joe Smith. He's headed that way the motorcade cops.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: I see there's one abandoned motorcycle. I don't know where
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: that cop is.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 4: He had to have run up the norm's the guy.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: It might be that guy. I don't know. He didn't
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: have a white helmet on.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 4: It's probably that he is.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, so he just got off his bike. So there's
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: no cops up there yet, right, So this is just
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: after the shot, So prezooming on that part of the
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: fence up there, Joe, to see if we can see
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: anything on the ground up there.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, bro, those those three scaffozas.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: Let's see if we can see Gordon Donald on the
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: ground in that same area. See, there's some kind of
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: anomaly close to the ground right in front of that
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: portion of the fence, like it could be somebody laying
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: on the fucking ground. I don't know.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and of course he said he was. He was
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 4: standing right here in his recreation picture.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, but then he changed it to being right here,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: to the right of the corner of the fence line
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: on the left side of the steps. Yeah.
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: I wish we had better, but.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: You can see there's some kind of anomaly on the ground.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's just shadows and sunlight or
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: there is Yeah, there is, there's something there. I don't know.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: I would like to go back and revisit the testimony
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: of Emma Hudson and whoever else was on these stairs
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: and say, see if they said anything about it. An
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: army guy on the fucking ground but right.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: Because because you think that would be noticeable enough too.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: And again after the shots, you have you have Arnold saying, hey,
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: they came around. Guy was crying, waving a shotgun in
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: my face. So I gave him my film. But there's
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: none of that, you know what I mean? Like, maybe
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: Arnold was there and maybe he did pussy out and
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: hear real gunfire and hit the dirt, but maybe none
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: of the other shit really happened, Like they didn't really
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: take his film. You know, he didn't really run into
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: a secret service agent. I mean his story came out
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: after the other four, right, Like he wasn't the first
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: one to say he ran into a secret service agent
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: back there. He was like the fifth one. So maybe
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: he just incorporated that into his story to make it
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: a little more believable.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 4: I think that is very likely, sir. I think, like
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 4: a lot of these things, there's some truth to it,
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 4: and there's a lot of exaggeration for whatever purposes, right
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 4: for newspaper article purposes this or that, or personal I
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 4: don't know, but I I do think he was the lie,
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 4: you know, like, yes, yes, exactly, this is the other one.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 4: And this is interesting because you have an umbrella and
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: dark complected.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: Man here that's way after the shots. Yeah after, but
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: the Newmans are still on the fucking ground and everybody
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: else is scattered except for umbrella man and dark complexed man,
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: and the vultures have descended with their film cameras to
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: you film the Newmans. Yeah, who I believe stayed on
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: the ground way longer than they probably needed to. But
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: you know, it makes for a better picture if they're
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: still laying on the ground protecting their children, you know.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's pull a surprise.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 4: You know, like, did know they did it? I don't know. No,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but they're probably thinking about that.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 4: Let me, I'm just going through some comments here.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: Here's Officer Joe Smith is looking straight at that spot
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: as he's walked as he's running across the street. Yep,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: I agree, that's why he ran that way. He ran
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: that way for a reason, either he saw something or
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: he felt like the shots were coming from that direction,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: because Geene Hill mentioned in her first affidavit there that
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: she saw somebody running from behind the fence behind the monument.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 4: Right right.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 9: Right, and that was towards the towards the depositors.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's that one weird picture. It's like a
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: black and white picture. I can't or maybe it's from
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: a film where there's like this weird looking character you
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: can see walking by kind a monument. It looks like
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: they have a hat on an overcoat and like they're
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: carrying something like a briefcase or something. Yeah, very weird.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 4: There's a lot. There's so much weird stuff going on here. Man,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 4: it's crazy, but you know it's I wrote down my
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 4: little summary of my thoughts here. You know, I'm always
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 4: very skeptical, almost extremely skeptical when people say they, oh,
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 4: they stole my film. It was taken, diary disappeared, my
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 4: documents on Jack Ruby that I was about to break
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 4: the case open talking about Dorothy Kogallen was stolen and
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 4: I was suicided, you know what I mean. I and
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 4: the men who killed Kennedy was what got me into
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 4: the JFK assassination because I was six at the time
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 4: of the JFP movie. So I when I saw this,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, like this is crazy.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 4: But as time has gone on, I get more skeptical,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 4: and I feel like nine out of ten of the
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 4: they were stolen, they're missing, they were they broke into
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 4: my safe for you know, they came right after I die,
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 4: the person died and stole everything. I feel like nine
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 4: out of ten is parfait or just all bullshit, But
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 4: there is that one out of ten.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob Jackson got to pull a surprize for the
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: Ruby shooting of Oswald pick.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, for sure, and you know what and
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 4: and bring just to bring them back to the Doyle film,
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 4: which which we did recently. There's there's documentation. I would
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 4: have felt a lot better if if Gordon Arnold got
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 4: the name of the person he threw his film to.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 6: And or made an inquiry at the DPD later that
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 6: day or the day after or the day before he
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 6: left for Alaska, right or mentioned it in his initial
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 6: letter to his wife.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 4: That would, for me, give me put a lot more
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 4: weight on his story. But on the other hand, I
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 4: look at this video that we just showed, and he
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 4: completely convinces me like he sold me. So I mean,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 4: do you go with emotion do you go with logic?
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know. As always, I feel like when we
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 4: when we debate these things, we get more confused than
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 4: when we started. But for me, I would have felt
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 4: a lot better if if there was some documentation or
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 4: reference before nineteen seventy yeah, and more evidence than the
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 4: Badgeman photo. And as we saw in these other photos
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 4: there is none. And we went across plausible reasons of
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 4: why there wouldn't be right if he was standing behind
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 4: there and he hit the ground, for example. But for me,
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 4: it's hard to give a lot of weight to it,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 4: even though I believe there was a shot from the
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 4: grassy knoll at least one shot, and I want to
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: believe his story. I want to, but there's some parts that,
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 4: just like for me, make it a little hard to
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 4: put a lot of weight on, if that's the right
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 4: way of putting it.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole thing is one of those conspiracy
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: tale that the loan nutbers can tear apart and a heartbeat, right,
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: and they did when this, when this came out, you know,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: he was ridiculed, called a liar, all kinds of stuff,
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: and he and he kind of dropped off. H I think, Well,
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: I think he died in like ninety eight, didn't.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 4: He ninety seven? I think yeah? And I think his
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 4: kids testified to the earth testified. I spoke to the
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 4: sixth floor in two thousand and five. I put that
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 4: link in the comments before.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: But again, they only know what he told them.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 4: So right right, They're very limited value of right right right?
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: You know. But like I said, this, this story is
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: easy to tear apart for a loan nutter, And like
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: you said, I feel a lot better. I mean, given
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: the circumstances, the story just doesn't make sense because he
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: specifically said it was a Dallas cop or two Dallas
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: cops that took his film. Right now, if this motherfucker's
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: really there in Dealey Plaza dressed up in his army uniform,
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: you think two Dallas cops are gonna bully an army
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: man into handing his film over.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 12: And not just.
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: Taking him down to the station and talking to him first.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 4: That's a good point.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: And again, I fought the Dallas Police for a lot
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: of shit, but.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 4: They did.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: Keep a good document record on just about everything that
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: they were involved in. I mean, there are some things
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 2: that maybe we can't find that should be there, but
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: for the most part, uh, there's a lot of very
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: eyebrow raising doc documents that are there in the Dallas
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: Police archives that probably shouldn't be you know, like like
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: the Martin document that we found about the the secret
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: line being installed into his house. Right And eventually things
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: come out, you know, like the third pose of the
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: backyard photograph and things that they never kind of turned over.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: But you know, the FBI was pretty adamant and yanking
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: all evidence away from the Dallas Police very early. So
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: if somebody would have confiscated this film, and I mean
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: you have to understand they when you correlate Gordon Arnold's
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: story with Abraham's a Pruder story, who's doing the exact
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: same thing, fucking thing he is twenty feet away from him, supposedly,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: which is filming the motorcade. Why didn't they treat Abraham's
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: a Pruder like this? Why didn't they just knock him
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: down and take his film instead? This motherfucker gets talked to,
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: he gets taken down to the news room. Cops didn't
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: even take him right away. You know, they went and
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: talked to him. They took him over to get his
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: film developed, and blah blah blah. And you know, he
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: made a media deal with Life magazine and he made
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of money off this thing. And then you
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: have tour Gordon Arnold over here with his dick in
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: the dirt, getting his film taken from him. The two
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: stories just don't correlate for me, because I don't think
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: Gordon Arnold's film would have been any more valuable than Zappruter's.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: In fact, the Pruder was from such a high angle
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: that he wouldn't have been obscured by people in front
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: of him, and it had a much clearer view of
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: what happened. And again, I could understand if these films
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: had sound, but they had no sound. You know, if
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: Gordon Arnold's film had sound and there was a loud
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: fucking gunshot or two gun loud gunshots, like right there
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: beside the camera, that might be a reason, you know,
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: to take his film. But that's not the case either.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 4: No, I thought you made a great point. It's like,
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 4: you're you're not gonna bully Abraham's pruder, some old business guy,
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 4: but he's gonna bully some guy in an army uniform. Right,
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 4: That doesn't up.
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: And there was a lot of people that had film
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: and cameras and movie cameras in Delley Plaza that did
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: not get their film immediately confiscated by the Dallas Police
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: or the FBI for that matter. Now, they did ask
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: for it later, and most willingly gave it up, you know,
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: because of the gravity of the situation and the good
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: of the country type bullshit whatever whatever, you know, But
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: like Orville Knicks for instance, Charles Bronson.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 4: And there's also the point that, hey, if you're Gordon
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 4: Arnold at this point, right by the time, let's just
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 4: say he leaves two days after, right, after the twenty
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 4: second he already knows they're saying, Lee, Harvey Oswald did
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 4: it from the TSBD. If you're a patriotic American, a
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 4: military man, when you heard gunshots flying over your head,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 4: I understand that you're scared. Argument, but witnesses weren't dying yet,
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 4: then no, you know what I mean? So so you
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 4: just stay quiet. And I get it. He's young. We
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 4: just had a basic training to make those arguments. But
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that don't add up. Because
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 4: you would want to come forward and say this, they'd
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 4: be like, Yo, these people took my shit.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: You have to you just got out of basic training.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: He's a gung ho, he's patriotic. If this is what
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: you saw, why wouldn't you say something? The president of
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: the United States, you're a supreme leader, commander in chief,
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: was just murdered thirty feet in front of you, and
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: you filmed it and not to say anything. You're the
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: biggest pussy in the fucking world at this point, Like
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense either, right, Like.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 4: Because the official story wasn't out the official story wasn't
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 4: wasn't out there yet, it was like consistently changing. So
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 4: he wouldn't know that his account of events would have
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 4: completely gone against everything. You know what I mean, this
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 4: is not uh, you know, after the warrant commission came out.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: And he had two days to do it, Like he
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: didn't leave Dallas for two days allegedly, right, And why
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: wouldn't you tell the woman you love what happened to you?
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like a big deal, like like, that's
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: some psyche fracturing shit right there. You know, that's some
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: life changing, altering shit. You can't go back there and
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: be pretend to be the same person you were after
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: witnessing such a traumatic event like that and have that
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: happen to you right the way he says it happened.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 4: And even if if he said something like, man, what
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 4: I saw on Daily Plausa is still really bothering me
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 4: a week after, you know, even if it had nothing
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 4: to do with the video for philm right, you know
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 4: it's oh I miss you this and that. It's problematic, man,
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 4: especially when you consider the timing of when it came out.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think either A he's making it all up
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 2: just because of whatever reason. You know, people are mental
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: sometimes and they want to insert themselves into history. And
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: be part of things that they really aren't a part of.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 4: Or you never can know what's going on in someone's head, or.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: You know, there's there's some truth in this lie. He
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: was there that he hit the dirt he was filming,
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: or he.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 4: Was too scared to film because he hit the dirt.
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: Right, you know what I mean? Yeah, he might've had
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: his camera, but maybe he stopped filming at a certain
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: point or hadn't started filming yet.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 4: Or it wasn't working and he couldn't get to work,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 4: like what.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he heard a gun shot and hit the
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: dirt and didn't come up until after everything was done,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: and then he was like, I want to get the
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: hell out of here, you know type of thing.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: I think one of those two possibilities are more likely
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: than the third one, which is he's telling the entire
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: truth about everything. So that's my take on it.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 4: Joe, Yeah, I think we are.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Jerry, I think we are.
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 4: We are an agreement on it. Intriguing. I think there's
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 4: some truth to it, but I think it is not
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 4: as we understand it for sure, And thank you double
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 4: be great points everyone. I love the chat and yeah,
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 4: that's why we do it. We go back and forth
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 4: and we try to figure out what the hell happened,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 4: because you could go to any aspect of this assassination
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 4: story and find conflicting evidence like this. Literally pick a
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 4: point where there's not like this.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: Why we do this?
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, Joe was in diapers the last time Met's One
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 4: World series. Yes, I was zero years old.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: I was born Balzac.
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 4: Now I was born.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: Oh you were August.
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like two months.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little baby Joe, Little baby Joe.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 4: The only calm people were dark Complexed Umbrella and Babushka. Yeah.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 4: And we had a really good segment episode on Babushka
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 4: a few months ago and that was really fun as well.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 4: And then last David Arbuckle, this is an excellent video.
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 4: Who's referring to what we played earlier. I've always thought
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 4: Arnold was a good witness. The truth is, all of
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 4: them are good and likely are being truthful. Some are
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 4: better than others, but they seem truthful. Yeah, he sold me,
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 4: he did. But when I look at all the facts
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 4: that we like to line up with documentation, it's hard
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 4: to give it a lot.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: Of weight and look, people like Beverly's not very good
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: at it. But people like Judy who are mentally ill
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: enough to believe their own bullshit are very good. It's
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: seeming truthful when I can tell you right now that
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: woman is a looney tune full of shit, right, but
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: at times she can seem emotional, she can tell a
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: good story, and to somebody who doesn't really know how
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: much of a liar she really is, could be easily
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: convinced that she's telling the truth. That's just some people
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 2: have this weird mental thing, like it's like a mask.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: Some people can put on and be like a chameleon
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: and insert themselves into things that maybe they were there,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: maybe they weren't. We don't really know, you know, maybe
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 2: they were there and they want to make their presence
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: there mean more than it did. Yeah, and insert themselves
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: into the story for attention or fame. I mean, I'm
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: not saying this guy was seeking fame and fortune because
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: he didn't get it all right, but he did get notorious.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: You know, we're still talking about it later.
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 4: I was about to say, yeah, it weren't.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: He got written about in newspapers, he got interviewed for
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: major documentaries. You know, he told his story to news
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: outlets and you know, here we are still trying to
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: figure out if what he said is true, because if
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 2: what he says is true, then his story boasters the
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: fact that somebody was up there pretending to be a
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agent and we know there weren't any, and
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: that there was probably some skuffusery going on behind the
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: Grassy No fence because they kicked him out of that area.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 2: And he said he distinctly heard a shot whiz by
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: his head, which pretty much solidifies that there was at
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: least one shot from the Grassy No if not too So,
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: if his story is true, it's a game changer. But
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: if it's not, then it's just not It's just another
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: story added to the list of a You know, you
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: can't have everybody behind the Grassy Nole and Roscoe White
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: and his handler. You can't have Lauren Hall back there
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: in his spotter, you can't have James Files back there
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: in his cafuza.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: You know, there's just too many people that say that
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: they were there. Or maybe you could put back there
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: with some kind of evidence, documents, hearsay, testimony, whatever orders.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 4: Jumping jumping on the Bowers Ed Hoffman kind of bandwagon
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 4: type of thing, who I believe we are much more
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 4: credible than Arnold because there's documentation of it. Hoffin went
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 4: to the police station that day, right, and no one
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 4: knows if they know what he said there, but he
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 4: was there.
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like, what fuck's this guy talking about?
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 2: Get him out of here.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 4: But that's what I'm saying, like with without documentation, it's
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 4: hard to take it as us as document researchers and there,
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 4: it's hard for us to give it more weight than
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 4: to make it a game changer. Right, I'm not saying
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 4: it has no weight. I'm saying it can't be a
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 4: game changer.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it can't be a game changer, all right, Joe.
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: On that note, great dog, or do you guys?
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 4: No I said, I said before the show, I don't
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 4: think we need to talk two hours about Gordon Arnold.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 4: And here we are to seventeen eight pushing to eighteen.
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 6: In And.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 4: This was fun, buddy. I had a good conversation. Ruby.
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 4: Come here. She's fine, Ruby, she's smartening up. She knows
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 4: I want to make her dance. She's not coming anymore.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 4: Give me a second and get us.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 2: Out, folks. There's another one in the books. Thanks for
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: hanging out with us. Thank you for the super Cats
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: and gift memberships that will be much appreciated. Thanks for
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: the hot salce. Brother will be in my mouth shortly
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: like justice, make these danced him or against him in
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: this strange case. No, I thought that was a good show,
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: So thank you Joe. Hopefully you folks enjoyed it. Thanks
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: for hanging out with us. We had a lot ship,
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: a ton of people in here tonight.
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: So yeah, we did over seventy and.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: Participating in the comments, Uh what the cat was on
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: fire tonight and you guys made a lot of good
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: points and added to the show and we'd like it. Yes,
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 2: So thank you guys so much, and uh be looking
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: out for the book review and the Wednesday show next week.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: We love you guys and we will see you next time.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, thank you everyone for joining us.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: Peace, peace, peace, Go on, Kitty, I here en, get
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: out of here, Get out of here, Ruby says, Kitty,
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 2: going with you, Harry. So thank