Latest / The Chris and Mike Show / #123 - Nemesis Reunited - A Look Back at Arizona's 90s Rock Scene and the Brotherhood that Built it.

Transcript

#123 - Nemesis Reunited - A Look Back at Arizona's 90s Rock Scene and the Brotherhood that Built it. · The Chris and Mike Show

• 0:03
  Oh, hello there, boys and girls. It's a double dose of the
• 0:06
  Christian Mike show on a Friday afternoon.
• 0:08
  That we're live. Did you post that on the
• 0:14
  Facebook? That we're live on YouTube.
• 0:16
  I will, I will in a second. Everybody give me a medal face.
• 0:20
  There we go. All right, the boys and girls,
• 0:41
  welcome to Chris and Mike Show. We've got the band back
• 0:44
  together. Well -1 person.
• 0:46
  But hey, you know everybody. I mean, let me introduce the
• 0:49
  world to William Richard Carr. The 4th.
• 0:52
  It's the fourth. It's not the third.
• 0:54
  All these years I've been, I've been calling him a third and
• 0:57
  he's a fourth, so it's my. Bad.
• 0:59
  Yeah, and you guys still call me Rick, which is cool.
• 1:03
  I mean, but everyone else now knows me from, you know, I'm an
• 1:07
  old man named William now. Really.
• 1:09
  You can call you William, right? I, I, I prefer that I really
• 1:13
  not, but either one is, I'll go by anyone.
• 1:17
  It's kind of, it's kind of like, you know, if you, if you have
• 1:20
  dinner, I'm going to show up. You know you're confident for.
• 1:22
  Dinner. I'm going to eat, but you call
• 1:24
  me Rick. That's everyone who's known me
• 1:26
  in my past. That's where they call me still.
• 1:28
  OK, Yeah. That's cool.
• 1:30
  Yeah, that's. How I always knew you, man.
• 1:32
  What William is, I always thought it was a it's a stronger
• 1:35
  name if you if you go by what each name means, William is
• 1:39
  probably I would prefer it, but. If you go by how Chris has been
• 1:43
  calling you, unfortunately by the wrong name, but now by the
• 1:47
  right name, it actually sounds cool rolling off the tongue.
• 1:50
  It always has. You know when you got introduced
• 1:52
  on stage, that was not a badass. It was, I thought it was it was
• 1:56
  a three name thing. Was big starter big then?
• 1:58
  Anyway, except for floats like your guys's favorite serial
• 2:01
  killers, they only have that 3. Right, right, right.
• 2:05
  You know, true story. So tell everybody who William
• 2:10
  Richard Card the 4th is Mr. Dunham.
• 2:13
  Well, he's the the, I call him the the our favorite bass player
• 2:18
  of our original band of Nemesis. And 'cause we had they had a
• 2:23
  bass player before us, Rick. I mean, sorry William, before us
• 2:27
  there was a bass player slash vocalist.
• 2:29
  But never before haxis we are. It was desperate Angel, right?
• 2:34
  I believe founding members of Nemesis.
• 2:36
  Yeah, and you just change the name to Nemesis, 'cause I
• 2:40
  vaguely remember Desperate Angel actually when we started.
• 2:43
  Yeah, 'cause I think I was watching.
• 2:45
  Yeah, I was watching MTV and Pearl Jam came on with Jeremy,
• 2:50
  and one of the little things that popped up on the screen was
• 2:53
  Nemesis. So the next day going to
• 2:55
  practice, I'm like, hey, how about we call ourselves Nemesis?
• 2:58
  Then we found out that it was the goddess of vengeance and
• 3:01
  Greek mythology, and because you're young and you think those
• 3:04
  kind of things are cool, it's like, Oh yeah, man, that's got
• 3:06
  to be awesome. Well, I mean, it was, it was
• 3:08
  actually fitting too, because at the time, Arizona was.
• 3:11
  Most look at that. Yeah, that's cool.
• 3:14
  I still have a, My mom sent me a bunch of stuff that we remember
• 3:17
  the, the, the letters that Sky used to send out.
• 3:21
  Yeah, I got the fan letters and I was real.
• 3:23
  I'm like, man, we were so professional.
• 3:26
  I mean. We were so far.
• 3:28
  Most kids don't know. That's the only way we had to
• 3:30
  communicate with our fans was the mail.
• 3:33
  You know, back in those days, we didn't have e-mail or any of
• 3:36
  that cool stuff we have now. Oh yeah.
• 3:38
  We invented social media. Yeah, oh look, that is.
• 3:42
  And I'm wearing the shirt in. That you wearing the name of the
• 3:44
  shirt, dude, you are. With pride, of course.
• 3:47
  I remember that night man. Like.
• 3:49
  It was, yeah. I do.
• 3:51
  I remember that that was probably some one of the
• 3:56
  greatest times in my life. For sure.
• 3:58
  And the greatest sadness of my life at the end of it.
• 4:03
  For all of us, man, because it meant something, you know, to,
• 4:06
  to hear you say that, and to have heard Chris say that and
• 4:10
  hear how genuine it is in your voice solidifies how I've always
• 4:14
  felt. I always felt like that was the
• 4:16
  greatest musical opportunity I was ever afforded on this planet
• 4:20
  with you guys for sure. And I, I, I'm a private person
• 4:24
  and you, you probably, Mike knows me because we lived
• 4:27
  together for a little bit. So I mean if I understands.
• 4:30
  Me. Yeah, You're even wider than me,
• 4:32
  man. Yeah, I basically everything up
• 4:38
  to my point in my life and most of my life is is is sadness.
• 4:42
  It's a a lot of issues. So I also like the way you guys
• 4:46
  end this show with the suicide thing.
• 4:49
  And because the only thing that's ever kept me when I had
• 4:54
  those feelings was knowing that someone else was out there and I
• 4:58
  wouldn't want to put that burden on them.
• 4:59
  Because to me, suicide is a selfish act.
• 5:03
  And I'm not a selfish person, you know, no matter how I feel
• 5:07
  at the time or state you. Always prove that in the band
• 5:09
  for sure. I always I kind of joked when I
• 5:12
  knew you were coming on that when you said, you know,
• 5:14
  whatever I can do, I said that's in true, Rick.
• 5:17
  That's Rick. Yeah.
• 5:18
  I mean, that's William. Definitely.
• 5:20
  You were always like, do I need to drive the bus?
• 5:22
  Do I need to load the gear in? Do I need to help you do
• 5:26
  anything? You know, you were always there
• 5:27
  to help, man. And I was appreciated that
• 5:29
  because when I was stressed out and I was trying to deal with
• 5:32
  booking the gigs and getting paid, you were always the person
• 5:35
  that made me feel comfortable because I knew you were handling
• 5:38
  the things that I couldn't at the time and I didn't have to
• 5:40
  worry about it. Right.
• 5:42
  Well, I'll be honest with you. You get that?
• 5:46
  That was my true family, in fact.
• 5:49
  And you told. I cried the first time you told
• 5:51
  me that. I remember that.
• 5:53
  You guys were like my brothers and.
• 5:56
  You guys, you guys, you're making me feel really bad now.
• 5:58
  The the hardest the hardest part is.
• 6:00
  And. The hardest part is when when
• 6:02
  Chris left. I'm a singing motherfucker.
• 6:06
  I'm going to tell you right now, yeah, I have a great range and
• 6:09
  everything, but there's when Chris left, I tried everything I
• 6:13
  could to fill that void and I there's no way of filling a
• 6:16
  Chris Dunham void. I'm you know what I'm.
• 6:19
  Gonna give you props about that. I'm not, I'm not that
• 6:22
  charismatic. I can't connect with the
• 6:24
  audience the way you do. I'm, you know, I'm musical.
• 6:28
  I have a lot of natural talent and skill.
• 6:32
  But the fact is if you don't grab people's attention, you're
• 6:36
  just a band up there playing. You might be kicking ass.
• 6:38
  And the and the audience is like, well, yeah, yeah, it's
• 6:40
  cool. I'm gonna go get a beer.
• 6:41
  Here's two things. Here's two things, and.
• 6:43
  I tried my ass off man. I really I tried my best.
• 6:46
  I really did. But listening back to those, I
• 6:49
  don't think I put it quite in this context.
• 6:51
  But the one thing that was missing after Chris left was not
• 6:55
  only obviously the front man aspect of it, which he's a
• 6:59
  badass at, there's no question. He's a very powerful voice too.
• 7:02
  I'm not. I'm not taking away from.
• 7:03
  That, but here's where I'll give you a compliment that you
• 7:06
  probably won't see coming. Rick is it's, it was the blend
• 7:09
  of your guys's voices together that really old people.
• 7:13
  When somebody said I don't know how to put my finger on your
• 7:15
  sound. It wasn't my guitar playing, it
• 7:18
  wasn't your bass playing. It wasn't us as individuals.
• 7:21
  It was almost like that Alice In Chains effect where Jerry and
• 7:25
  Lane were singing together. You added the right element at
• 7:29
  the right time to get Chris's message across.
• 7:33
  Yeah, I mean that that's what I love to do and and when
• 7:36
  something's. In your bass playing, was it
• 7:38
  spoke for itself, dude, your tone at the beginning of that's
• 7:41
  why we we play Freeman for a lot of reasons, because the
• 7:44
  beginning is so powerful as a message, right?
• 7:47
  Bass tone is so mighty in the beginning of that song, dude.
• 7:50
  Well, I recorded that in my apartment.
• 7:53
  So on a little reel to reel, yeah, that's that.
• 7:59
  Here's the thing, and here's the funny part.
• 8:02
  A reluctant bass player, right? But, but I know when I the
• 8:07
  reason I played, Here's the reason why I started playing
• 8:09
  bass. I don't know if I told you the
• 8:10
  story, but I couldn't find a bass player that's worth the
• 8:12
  shit. Look, all I can find is
• 8:15
  frustrating guitar players playing bass, right?
• 8:18
  How many bass? Players Did we audition before
• 8:20
  we? Found him.
• 8:20
  Chris probably 20. Yeah, quite a bit.
• 8:24
  The only one I remember before before William was.
• 8:26
  OK, there he is. The only one I remember before
• 8:29
  William was the guy that had the really old car with the massive
• 8:33
  trunk that when he opened it up I was like oh you could fit like
• 8:37
  6 bodies in there and and look on Mike's face was like like
• 8:42
  like like like oh fuck you just said that.
• 8:50
  Yeah. I mean, the thing about playing
• 8:52
  bass is it is, is it there's a place for it and it's not, it's
• 8:57
  not guitar. But at the same time, in a three
• 9:00
  piece you kind of need to be bass and I would say rhythm
• 9:03
  guitar. But you got to find a nice sweet
• 9:05
  spot between that. And that's what I learned, dude.
• 9:10
  I didn't realize until I went back and listened as a listener
• 9:14
  and not a player. A lot of things that you did
• 9:17
  blew right past me, like you were really good at playing the
• 9:20
  3rd or the 5th, you know, at building a chord.
• 9:23
  Whether you were doing it or not musically at the time, you would
• 9:26
  find that right note that wasn't the note I was playing to fill
• 9:30
  the sound out, right? You might, you might play the
• 9:33
  note I'm playing, and very quickly you'd play the 3rd or
• 9:36
  the 5th, 6th, 7th or whatever, just to give Chris's melody the
• 9:40
  justice it deserved. I never knew those things were
• 9:43
  going on. I just knew that the sound was
• 9:45
  full and I dug it right. Yeah, I mean, that comes from a
• 9:49
  background of my mother's been in choir her whole life.
• 9:52
  You know, she travelled the world actually.
• 9:54
  She went to at least Mexico City and she went to England when I
• 9:59
  was a child mostly, mostly, you know, Christian type stuff.
• 10:04
  Well, I I think you actually helped me with the recording.
• 10:07
  Like remastering one of her CDs or tapes she had out.
• 10:11
  I did, now that you've mentioned it.
• 10:13
  Now The thing is, the cool thing about being a vocalist before
• 10:15
  you're a musician is that you understand like harmonies.
• 10:20
  Well, you're if you're a good one, you understand harmonies
• 10:23
  and balance and all that. And that comes out naturally in
• 10:27
  my playing without me, like you said, in in my 20s, not
• 10:30
  realizing it, what I was doing, but later in life going, wow,
• 10:33
  that's pretty cool. And it's also your heroes, you
• 10:36
  know? I mean, you listen to certain
• 10:39
  guys, you don't know why it's good.
• 10:42
  You just know that it is good. That's the way I always saw it.
• 10:45
  To me, I can't read music to save my life.
• 10:48
  But if you play something for me once, I can play it back for
• 10:50
  you. No, but the thing that I
• 10:51
  remember about you sitting there is the same thing I Remember
• 10:54
  Remember about Chris, as you guys were determined to get it
• 10:58
  right. You know, you would just say
• 10:59
  keep playing it back. I want to hear it one more time.
• 11:01
  Let me play through it one more time.
• 11:03
  You guys both had you had a vision of what you wanted it to
• 11:06
  sound like, and I'm the same way.
• 11:08
  Sometimes I can't tell you how I got there.
• 11:11
  I just got there, right? I know what I want to hear.
• 11:14
  Oh, definitely. And sometimes that's hard to
• 11:15
  describe if you're not a trained musician, which you know, we're
• 11:18
  all semi trained, we can tell you what key it's in and maybe
• 11:21
  what scale we're playing sometimes.
• 11:22
  But. Right.
• 11:23
  I mean, over the years, of course, now being 50, I know how
• 11:26
  to find notes, CADBC, all that stuff, but.
• 11:30
  I got a confession. I won't.
• 11:31
  I can't tell you what key it's in.
• 11:33
  I just. I just hear the note and I sing.
• 11:37
  But you're damn good at it. You write great melody.
• 11:40
  Thank you. Well, I mean, you told.
• 11:43
  Me. Hey, hey, man, singing, singing,
• 11:45
  you know, go hit the D like play the note for me. 1st I I'm the
• 11:50
  same way, Chris, I, you know, I'll say play.
• 11:53
  I, I might get lucky. A is lucky because almost,
• 11:56
  almost everything's in A. So that's a natural tone that
• 11:59
  you're used to hearing. But you know, so I want to be
• 12:02
  sharp. I like.
• 12:04
  Well, go ahead and have one, you know.
• 12:09
  I've missed that humor, right? There, play it on the keyboard
• 12:12
  for me or something, you know, I mean, sorry, Mr. Scholar.
• 12:16
  Now, I don't think you lose anything.
• 12:18
  I think you should learn music by ear first.
• 12:22
  Yeah. And then get into theory,
• 12:23
  because then it seems like the the few things that you have
• 12:27
  that are missing are kind of filled in.
• 12:29
  Or you can give you a little more confidence that what you're
• 12:32
  doing is correct. But honestly, I never cared.
• 12:36
  I It's not. I've heard you guys say it's the
• 12:38
  last time because if it sounds good, it is good.
• 12:40
  Yes. You know, And I've heard guys
• 12:42
  that. Yeah, guys that I thought were
• 12:45
  the best musicians in the world couldn't read a note.
• 12:48
  You know it. As far as what we were doing, we
• 12:53
  were trying to put something out there that made other people to
• 12:56
  feel the way we felt and make a connection.
• 12:59
  At least that's the way I've always approached music.
• 13:01
  I agree with you, but I found all over all these years, we'll
• 13:05
  say 20 some odd years or more since we've broken up a lot of
• 13:10
  it I've done alone. We took, we took a break, Rick.
• 13:13
  We didn't break. Yeah.
• 13:14
  Well, we're talking right now. That's true, but I never
• 13:18
  stopped. I've been in cover bands.
• 13:20
  I've been in. Right now I'm in the original
• 13:22
  bandwidth. Guys that are actually older
• 13:23
  than me and they're playing original stuff.
• 13:25
  Their stuff was cool, so I I joined them up.
• 13:27
  It was kind of just like when I met you guys.
• 13:31
  I know it sounds corny. I don't know, it sounds corny,
• 13:33
  but I walk in the room and before we played, I'm very
• 13:41
  empathic. You and I have.
• 13:44
  I have AI came and you come in the room and you get certain
• 13:47
  feelings and it was very, I'd never been there in my whole
• 13:50
  life, but it was almost like walking into like my living room
• 13:54
  or something like that. So at first I was at ease.
• 13:56
  So there was of course, nervous that, well, these guys are going
• 14:00
  to think I'm some hacker. They're hopefully they'll be
• 14:03
  nice enough not to laugh at my face.
• 14:04
  But you know, right before, you know, until after I leave.
• 14:08
  But it's wow, it's hard to it's so emotionally based.
• 14:15
  I don't have like specific memories.
• 14:16
  OK, if that. Makes any sense?
• 14:18
  I Yeah. Let me tell you that.
• 14:19
  Story. Yeah, Let me tell you that story
• 14:21
  real quick. Yeah.
• 14:21
  Because I don't know if you're going to tell them.
• 14:23
  Yeah. You left, obviously, because it
• 14:26
  was your audition and we only talked for about 45 seconds.
• 14:32
  Might not even. That would have been an
• 14:33
  eternity. We might have only said one
• 14:35
  thing and the next thing we heard from the kitchen because
• 14:38
  Carrie was in there making dinner for the family.
• 14:41
  She said that's the best you guys have ever sounded.
• 14:45
  So there was no more discussion about whether you were going to
• 14:47
  be the bass player or not because she had been to every
• 14:51
  rehearsal, because we rehearsed in their living room.
• 14:54
  She had to every performance before you were there, so we had
• 14:58
  to respect an opinion of somebody who had seen us play
• 15:00
  hundreds of times already. She just simply said that is by
• 15:03
  far the best you guys have ever sounded and a live performance
• 15:06
  and a rehearsal anything hands down.
• 15:09
  You guys sound like a well oiled machine.
• 15:12
  Well, it. Was like, that was you.
• 15:14
  You got wow. I thought you guys were a will
• 15:17
  oil machine. I mean it was very seamless.
• 15:20
  Well, I so. But it's but it's amazing the
• 15:22
  difference what happens when a bass player comes in because I
• 15:25
  agree with you. We were pretty he.
• 15:26
  Said it earlier, the importance of that position is so
• 15:30
  overlooked, but so necessary. You.
• 15:33
  Got to it's a it's the, the, it's I'm not describe it.
• 15:36
  It's the bridge between in a band like that, it's a bridge
• 15:39
  between the drums and the guitar.
• 15:41
  Yeah. You know, that's a great way to
• 15:43
  do it. It's a melody that the vocalist
• 15:46
  can also build on as well. Yeah, what's Paul McCartney say?
• 15:49
  It's not a chord until the bass player, or maybe Sting says that
• 15:52
  it's not. A chord.
• 15:54
  It's probably it's. Not a chord until the bass
• 15:55
  player decides that it's a chord because you got notes you can
• 15:59
  pick from that aren't the one the guitar player is playing.
• 16:02
  And that, that's what I like. The I wasn't really interested
• 16:07
  in bass. The only reason I was interested
• 16:09
  in bass is the two people you spoke of right now, which would
• 16:12
  be Sting and Paul McCartney, possibly Gene Simmons.
• 16:16
  He's an ass, but he played bass. He does, but that's for some
• 16:25
  reason. I fell in love.
• 16:26
  I'm still playing it now. In fact, it's usually my go to
• 16:29
  instrument. I play guitar way better than I
• 16:31
  ever did. I can, you know, write whole
• 16:33
  songs and do that. But right on.
• 16:35
  I don't get the, I don't get the same joy that I do.
• 16:39
  I guess playing bass and it's mostly a live thing.
• 16:43
  Comfort. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:46
  Well, I'm comfortable doing it, but I enjoy the space it fills
• 16:50
  in the I'm not a, I'm not an upfront person.
• 16:54
  I've tried to be my whole life, but I, I'm pretty much in a band
• 16:59
  foundational. And there's nothing wrong with
• 17:00
  that because without really good drums, you know, and A and a
• 17:05
  good bass line, it doesn't let the two things that most people
• 17:08
  think about shined, which is the vocals and the guitar.
• 17:11
  And if you're writing music, you should be writing it for music,
• 17:14
  not for your ego. And that's, I would, I'm going
• 17:19
  to continue to do it. I've never made really money off
• 17:21
  it at all, but I can't stop. I've tried stopping several
• 17:24
  times and I go right back to it. So, and basically I'm going to
• 17:28
  do this until my last day on Earth.
• 17:31
  I think that's no matter what. We're truly artists, right?
• 17:34
  Yeah. You have to have it.
• 17:35
  You can't go a day without either listening to music,
• 17:38
  playing music, it. You know it has to be in your
• 17:40
  life and ensemble, right? Right.
• 17:42
  Or just being creative because like the whole reason Good News
• 17:45
  Arizona came about is because I was bored and you need something
• 17:49
  to fill the creative space because I I got done with with
• 17:51
  the council because of the nonsense there.
• 17:53
  And it's like, OK, now what? And then that ended and then I,
• 17:57
  you know, then Mike and I, I started poking on Mike again,
• 17:59
  like, dude, you know, I started setting up lyrics and stuff.
• 18:01
  I'm writing. I'm like, come on, you know, And
• 18:03
  I didn't realize he was going through some stuff.
• 18:05
  But the reason I love this is because it fills that gap.
• 18:09
  Like I, I need, I need something creative in my world, otherwise
• 18:13
  I'm just not myself. So, you know, I can do all I
• 18:17
  want with my videos and and stuff for real estate, but it's
• 18:19
  not the same, you know, it's just it doesn't, it doesn't fill
• 18:23
  that that void. So this, this fills the void.
• 18:27
  And now that we got you reeled in for me, make some music.
• 18:33
  Man, for me, this is another bucket list item because one
• 18:35
  thing that Chris has preached on this show, and I don't know if
• 18:39
  you've listened to those episodes or not, but there's.
• 18:41
  I've got several. There's no relationship that
• 18:44
  you're ever going to have with another human being like the one
• 18:47
  that you still stepped on a stage with in front of.
• 18:50
  A. Person or 1000 people right and
• 18:53
  we ran the gamut you Rick, you and I played two people at a
• 18:58
  pizza joint on a Sunday night and we we played to.
• 19:01
  Private birthday party. Mason jar in the electric
• 19:03
  ballroom and you. Know what I was saying?
• 19:05
  The coolest one I remember. I don't know if you remember
• 19:07
  this and I don't know how we oh, you know, we got it through.
• 19:11
  Damn. Nah, I feel bad.
• 19:12
  I forgot his name was Club Rio Outdoors.
• 19:17
  That was a trip. Oh, I'll never forget because
• 19:19
  there was people there regardless because everyone just
• 19:21
  went to the club. Rio at that time in the 90s,
• 19:23
  they had inside was dancing and outside was just like a cool
• 19:27
  like outside bar and palm trees and they had they kind of fell
• 19:32
  out of out of place there, but you know, playing Hard Rock.
• 19:35
  But that was really cool. I wish Chris was there.
• 19:44
  Yeah, that would have been a cool gift for.
• 19:46
  That's that's that's I will tell you this, if you haven't heard
• 19:49
  me say it on the show when Mike and I have talked about that's
• 19:51
  that's if I go back in time, that would have just been it
• 19:55
  would have just been, hey, I just need a break, you know, so
• 19:57
  I can recover the voice, all that kind of jazz and you like 6
• 20:00
  months or so to kind of get back where I need to be.
• 20:03
  But you don't think about that when you're punk ass kid.
• 20:06
  You just think, you know, there'll be there'll be other
• 20:09
  times, there'll be other things and it's just, it's just, it's
• 20:11
  one of those things, man. But if.
• 20:14
  And I'm not one of those to to to sit there and play the blame
• 20:17
  game and and woe is me because of my past and shit like that.
• 20:20
  I just, I don't do that. You are, we are who we are
• 20:22
  because of the life we've had and the experience that we had
• 20:24
  to let us to this point in time right now.
• 20:27
  But I will, I will go to my grave.
• 20:29
  That was that's the one thing I wish I would have approached it
• 20:32
  differently instead of just cutting ties that like, Hey, I
• 20:36
  need some to step away for a while to, you know, but you
• 20:40
  know, that's neither here nor now.
• 20:41
  Now we're here, you know, and now we have.
• 20:43
  Yeah. And look, Chris, I mean, I did
• 20:47
  catch one of your your podcasts and you were thinking that I was
• 20:50
  angry with you or something like that.
• 20:52
  I'll be honest with you, I was just, I guess, got a 24 year
• 20:55
  relationship that wasn't good for me.
• 21:00
  There was a lot going on at that time and it had nothing to do
• 21:03
  with you. OK.
• 21:06
  If I had any any animosity towards you, it died off years
• 21:09
  ago and. Good.
• 21:10
  All of us, all of us have our regrets, I think.
• 21:15
  But if we dwell on them, we're wasting our time.
• 21:17
  You know I. Agree.
• 21:17
  I'm glad to hear. That you have no reason to, you
• 21:20
  know, apologize and it's in the like, it's back there.
• 21:24
  Yeah, it is, but I still mean there's nothing we can do.
• 21:27
  About it, right? But I still, but I still, I
• 21:29
  still respected you enough and still respect you enough that I
• 21:32
  felt like it needed to be said. Mike and I have talked about it
• 21:35
  on the show, off the show, Yeah. But now you're in those
• 21:37
  conversations, right? Well, I appreciate it and I
• 21:41
  appreciate all the little things you do, the the silly little
• 21:43
  birthday things you send me. I'm just, I'm not a Facebook
• 21:47
  type person. I'm not a social media type.
• 21:49
  You know, you're good. It's even like you said, I don't
• 21:52
  and I, I would say 1520 years ago, I stopped watching the news
• 21:56
  and it's made my life better. Absolutely.
• 21:58
  Yeah. It it's just, it's my
• 22:02
  upbringing, man. It's.
• 22:04
  I just want to tell you this is a bucket list item for me, man.
• 22:07
  I'm going back to, you know, like Chris said, you'll never
• 22:11
  have that relationship. I there's a lot of people that
• 22:14
  unfortunately, you know, have come and gone out of my life and
• 22:18
  that's their choice, right? But when it's somebody like you
• 22:20
  who I blood sweat and tears, right?
• 22:24
  All the stories of that you've heard of what living in a rock
• 22:28
  band is like, they're all true, right?
• 22:30
  You're poor. It is.
• 22:31
  You don't know what that feels coming from.
• 22:33
  Are we going to pay the electric bill and the rent, or are we
• 22:36
  going to go play rock'n'roll? You know those stories.
• 22:39
  Are all true that band that band was yeah that band was
• 22:43
  everything to me. In fact, I had AI had a divorce
• 22:46
  at that time and I remember part of that was because I was going
• 22:50
  to keep doing what I was doing so that that was the hardest
• 22:53
  part to be honest. I don't know how even how it
• 22:55
  ended. It just kind of we kind of
• 22:58
  fractured. Then Scott got divorced.
• 23:00
  Is that what it was? Yeah, Scott.
• 23:03
  We had to kick him out of the band.
• 23:05
  That was a hard day, being and out being a addict myself, to
• 23:09
  have to tell somebody else that they're a worse addict, well,
• 23:13
  that wasn't a fun day, man. Well, and that happened when I
• 23:16
  was with you still, if I remember, because he wasn't, we
• 23:19
  were. Looking for another drummer?
• 23:20
  We were. We were trying to jam with Kirk
• 23:22
  after. That yeah, remember.
• 23:24
  Yeah. And Kirk was an even bigger
• 23:26
  basket case because we didn't know it, but he was a meth head.
• 23:29
  Oh. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:31
  So they're very unpredictable people.
• 23:33
  I became one myself. Unfortunately, that was my
• 23:35
  addiction for three years of my life.
• 23:40
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:42
  It's yeah, but. Going going back to this was
• 23:47
  definitely a bucket list item for me.
• 23:48
  Man. That's what you meant to me in
• 23:50
  my life. Sweet.
• 23:53
  Yeah, and I will, I will tell you this, Nick.
• 23:54
  And I've talked obviously, because I'm still married, Nick,
• 23:56
  you know, I'm going to go 32 years now.
• 23:59
  And we've, we've talked, we've talked about it a few times,
• 24:02
  that of all the bands I was in, which there wasn't very many, I
• 24:05
  think 5. She felt Nemesis was by far the
• 24:10
  best core group of musicians that I ever played with.
• 24:14
  So that's something. And and that goes along with the
• 24:17
  personalities and the type of humans you were too, because you
• 24:20
  can't have one without the rest, right?
• 24:22
  Right. Because then you can't stay
• 24:24
  together if you have the egos and the all that kind of
• 24:27
  nonsense. It doesn't work.
• 24:28
  And we? Had that.
• 24:29
  We never had that. We are all about let's just go
• 24:31
  play music, let's just go jam. I mean, that's how I always
• 24:34
  approached it. Yeah, for however young and
• 24:36
  naive we were at the time, we were super professional when it
• 24:39
  came to we're going to put on a show and people, people are
• 24:42
  going to have a good time and we're going to have a good time.
• 24:44
  That was important to us, that we wrote good songs and went out
• 24:47
  there and actually had a performance, you know?
• 24:50
  Right, right. Well, that that's the thing in
• 24:53
  that with Nemesis, that was the last band I was in where I felt
• 24:58
  like these guys and me can actually, this can actually go
• 25:03
  somewhere. Yeah, I've been in several bands
• 25:05
  and they're and it's like maybe one or two of us are good, but
• 25:08
  the rest of the bands are just there, the rest of the guys.
• 25:10
  And there's nothing wrong with that, but there was something I.
• 25:15
  You can't quantify, you know, I, you, you couldn't actually say
• 25:18
  what it was, but it's, it was all it had to be all four of us,
• 25:22
  though, right? Because once that all four
• 25:25
  wasn't there, no matter how hard I tried, it was not there
• 25:29
  anymore. Yeah.
• 25:32
  And it's not that we weren't still good and still writing
• 25:35
  good songs. It's just it was missing the the
• 25:38
  missing a piece I guess. And that we we built that band
• 25:41
  around having somebody standing on the center of the stage so
• 25:44
  that you and I could do what we needed to do.
• 25:46
  You know, Chris ran the show for sure.
• 25:48
  And that was his job. It's like that's how that band
• 25:51
  was built. I didn't want to be the front
• 25:54
  man either. So I admired you for stepping up
• 25:58
  and saying at least I'll try, you know, and you did a great
• 26:00
  job. But it took me a long time to
• 26:03
  realize that it was your guys's blend of harmonies together at
• 26:07
  just the right time that really carried that melody behind the
• 26:10
  music. And that was, like you said,
• 26:14
  man, that was necessary for that success to keep getting the
• 26:18
  bigger shows. Because like I said, we went
• 26:21
  from playing on Sunday night to two people to open up for Sacred
• 26:25
  Reich at a sold out Mason jar, you know, Right?
• 26:28
  Right, that was cool. And everybody else in between.
• 26:32
  Man, the Mason jar boy, was that a?
• 26:34
  That was a great place to play now.
• 26:36
  It's it was a great place, but man, when it I was like right
• 26:40
  after this little clubs, it was trying to be a dance club that
• 26:43
  failed right away and I just fell away after that.
• 26:46
  I don't know if they boarded it up or if they're still using
• 26:48
  that building, but it's kind of sucks because that was a a cool
• 26:53
  part of history. But it's like you guys talking
• 26:55
  about electric ballroom. That was right.
• 26:57
  Awesome flake like that was LA status.
• 27:00
  That was like the coolest LA club right here in in Tempe.
• 27:03
  And I'm like, man. Did I ever tell you the story
• 27:07
  about going in there and getting paid for the first time?
• 27:10
  Yes, I have heard it actually on your show.
• 27:12
  Yeah. Those guys, piles of coke and.
• 27:14
  Everything. They were really from Los
• 27:16
  Angeles and I didn't know it, but they were like running from
• 27:18
  the law. They had done the same thing in
• 27:20
  LA where they built this club up, sucked all the money out of
• 27:24
  it and then. Took it was.
• 27:25
  Almost like a what do they call that pump and.
• 27:29
  Dump. Yeah, laundering the money.
• 27:31
  That makes sense. That makes sense.
• 27:32
  Then what happened to it? You could totally tell they were
• 27:35
  so shady, but it was a great club.
• 27:40
  But yeah, they knew the right people that whoever built that
• 27:43
  place, it was amazing, you know, because you could, you could
• 27:47
  have regular, you had a nice area for your local stuff, and
• 27:51
  then they had this big stage that, you know, national acts
• 27:53
  could come through. Yep, that's when we opened for
• 27:56
  Marshall Tucker Band, which back then it didn't dawn on me.
• 27:59
  Marshall Tucker Band because it's just, we're just playing a
• 28:01
  show. Right.
• 28:03
  You know, and then it's like, fuck, you know, looking back on
• 28:05
  the Marshall Tucker was one of my favorite, favorite bands,
• 28:07
  just more so because of the Southern draw sound that I have.
• 28:10
  And they're Southern rock. And it was just one of those
• 28:12
  things like, you got to be kidding me.
• 28:14
  Like, you know those things when you're young, you didn't think
• 28:17
  about it. And then you look back 20 years
• 28:19
  later, like holy shit. Well, it just hit me like a ton
• 28:21
  of bricks last night. I'm like, Rick's actually been
• 28:26
  down the street that I live on because he flew back here and
• 28:29
  played a gig with us. At yeah, yeah, that was a great.
• 28:32
  That was one of the best shows. It was just the the three of us.
• 28:37
  It was fun. I wish we could have done that
• 28:41
  more often that that part of the country that people just, they
• 28:45
  were enjoying the music. You know, it was, you know how
• 28:49
  it is. I mean, on the West Coast here,
• 28:50
  people are a little more jaded. You know, you really have to
• 28:53
  grab their attention. Well.
• 28:55
  It's just it's the same on the East Coast, but in the.
• 28:57
  Midwest drove down right past where I live what two years ago?
• 29:03
  Yeah, yeah. You didn't know it at the time
• 29:05
  though, because it was right before we started the podcast.
• 29:08
  Oh wow. Yeah, we had just kind of
• 29:11
  started we talking again. I was there for my aunt's
• 29:14
  funeral. She died and so we were coming
• 29:16
  back and yeah. Part part of maintaining my
• 29:20
  recovery was slowing my life down to a crawl, and that's what
• 29:24
  living in a town of 12,000 people surrounded by cornfields
• 29:27
  will do for you, buddy. Yeah.
• 29:29
  But Rick can tell the world that's where I live, basically
• 29:32
  in the middle of a cornfield there's.
• 29:33
  So is that the area you're in now?
• 29:36
  Yeah, I live in the same town you stayed in, about two blocks
• 29:39
  away from the same house that my parents are in now.
• 29:41
  Oh wow. They're still there, dude.
• 29:43
  I just remember, I don't know if it was one of your friends.
• 29:47
  I went to his house and he had, he's like, you got to hear this.
• 29:50
  And he started playing his Gin Blossoms.
• 29:54
  I'm like, yeah, I don't. I've never heard of them before
• 29:58
  from this weird Arizona band. I'm scared.
• 30:01
  But that's my start there, I guess.
• 30:03
  I guess they are bigger than I thought they were, you know?
• 30:06
  Yeah, it's still Tempe Jingle jangle sound.
• 30:08
  As I would say on the stage, when you came to see Tempe
• 30:11
  Jingle jangle sound, you came to the wrong place.
• 30:13
  Well, that that's that's where the Nemesis would tie in because
• 30:16
  we were kind of the nemesis of what was popular at that time.
• 30:20
  As far I never thought in Arizona it's.
• 30:21
  Pretty smart, yeah, but that's the way I always.
• 30:24
  Approached it yeah, I think I said it a few times jadedly, my
• 30:30
  20 disgruntled 20 something rambling some stage that didn't
• 30:35
  entertain anybody at all but I thought it was funny That's
• 30:39
  that's that's cool, though I never.
• 30:40
  Thought of it that way, but you're right, because we
• 30:42
  weren't, we weren't like anything that was going on at
• 30:44
  that time at all, but we but we were like a lot of.
• 30:46
  Bands that broke at that time because I, I can say like, I
• 30:49
  want to say like 3 Doors Down, like you guys talk about candle
• 30:53
  box and all that cool stuff that was not quite grunge, you know,
• 30:57
  not quite Hard Rock, but it had elements of both.
• 31:02
  So I'd. Like like you're saying.
• 31:03
  It wasn't about what our sound was.
• 31:06
  Our sound became naturally, it was just, let's try to write the
• 31:08
  Best Song, right? You know, someone comes up with
• 31:11
  a riff, let's turn that into something cool nobody was trying
• 31:14
  to show off. Right.
• 31:16
  But at the same time, it was always about the quality, I
• 31:21
  would think over quantity. So yeah, the things that I
• 31:24
  never. Heard like in your bass playing
• 31:26
  was how well you filled in the gaps.
• 31:29
  You know, you were real good at not playing over.
• 31:31
  His vocals, you were real good at not playing over important
• 31:35
  parts of the guitar that you knew didn't need to be muddied
• 31:38
  up. But when I would let something
• 31:40
  go, like let a chord hang out, you were real good at filling in
• 31:43
  in that gap with, you know, like I said, those little bass runs
• 31:46
  and stuff that I just didn't. You don't hear them when you're
• 31:49
  playing live because you're so in the moment, you know, All
• 31:52
  right. That's cool.
• 31:55
  He would find the pocket Rick would find.
• 31:57
  That pocket, he would just and that was the goal.
• 31:59
  And it made the sound that's. That's the always the.
• 32:02
  Goal space. Right, that's one thing I
• 32:06
  always. Thought we had we were really
• 32:07
  good in the space. Guitar player yeah Yep.
• 32:15
  And. Honestly, honestly, we've
• 32:18
  probably gotten a lot better because I vocally I'm pretty
• 32:21
  good in a probably better support wise than I am lead
• 32:24
  vocal right now. Because we'll have some just.
• 32:28
  Because. I use.
• 32:29
  This, I use the same. Yeah, I use the same concept in
• 32:33
  that, you know, how do you make the vocals shine?
• 32:38
  And the way they shine, if you listen to Pause records, is
• 32:40
  there is little, little background vocals.
• 32:44
  There's things here and there, there's harmonies, but they're
• 32:47
  not louder than the lead. But without them, the lead kind
• 32:50
  of sounds a little bit less. Yeah.
• 32:52
  Well, imagine. Imagine.
• 32:54
  So it's. Well, imagine.
• 32:56
  Imagine Van. Halen right Dave Lee Roth and
• 32:58
  Sammy Hagar I was imagine you Michael Anthony and Eddie were
• 33:02
  the sound of Van Halen, right? They were with you take Michael
• 33:05
  Anthony away, right? Yeah, that's both of.
• 33:08
  Them right, you take those backing.
• 33:10
  Vocals more, more than more Michael Anthony than Eddie.
• 33:12
  You take Michael Anthony away, the dynamic of that band
• 33:16
  completely changes. That's from a sound standpoint
• 33:19
  with with either singer, right? It's completely changes.
• 33:22
  Even though Sammy had a much better range, it still changes
• 33:25
  the feeling, the dynamic and the sound, no question.
• 33:28
  Sammy just is rock. And roll, yeah, he is and it
• 33:32
  personality wise, everything. And and I have learned, having
• 33:35
  learned about him being like some poor sharecropper to where
• 33:37
  he has you know what to where he got to it now it makes sense why
• 33:41
  he did things the way he did them.
• 33:44
  And he's a strong personality. But the and the only reason I
• 33:48
  like like I prefer David Lee Roth's because that's my
• 33:52
  childhood, right? That's when I first heard Van
• 33:55
  Halen, right. But the, the the older I got,
• 33:57
  I'm like, he's a real a hole, but he's not.
• 34:01
  You know, I found I I recently. Found out he's really not.
• 34:04
  He's different. It's a Well, yeah.
• 34:06
  I think a lot of that wasn't he's.
• 34:07
  Not he's not a normal. Person No, he is.
• 34:10
  He is completely different, so it's harder for him.
• 34:12
  I think it's harder for him to get along with certain people
• 34:15
  well. I can relate to him.
• 34:17
  I did listen to him for three hours on Rogan and I had a whole
• 34:20
  new person. Oh nice.
• 34:21
  He's. Never been married.
• 34:23
  So I can relate to that. Never get married.
• 34:25
  He's never had. Kids, I can relate.
• 34:27
  To that I never that he knows that he knows of.
• 34:29
  That I know of and that. And that, David?
• 34:32
  Knows of correct? So you're right, he has spent
• 34:37
  his life looking and living different, looking at the world
• 34:41
  and living differently than most people, Right.
• 34:43
  So on the outside looking in, he looks crazy.
• 34:47
  Yeah. But he kind of.
• 34:48
  Just picks up and does. Stuff like in the middle of that
• 34:51
  interview, he said, yeah, I've been living in Japan for the
• 34:54
  last month studying ancient sword fighting, you know?
• 34:58
  Like training to be a samurai. So that's sweet.
• 35:01
  The thing is, I mean, with the voice that he had basically his
• 35:06
  his old, what he said was like singing, like your life depended
• 35:10
  on it. Like one of his teachers told
• 35:11
  him that, right. And that that makes sense
• 35:14
  because no one will, no one will probably ever say, man, that guy
• 35:16
  should have sang opera. You know, that guy should have
• 35:19
  been a classically trained, he wasn't vocalist, but everything
• 35:22
  he did was emotive. You know it it evoked to
• 35:26
  something inside of you, you know and that and I think that's
• 35:28
  why those four guys that's without him, Van Halen wouldn't
• 35:34
  be Van Halen. No, you know, that's Eddie was
• 35:37
  smart enough to know that he. Needed that front man.
• 35:39
  Any guitar player worth their salt knows if you're going to be
• 35:43
  a band you have to have a decent front man because otherwise
• 35:47
  you're Joe Satriani, right? Eddie would have just been an
• 35:50
  instrumentalist. You have to give up that front
• 35:53
  position to somebody like Chris that can command a crowd because
• 35:58
  when you're standing in front of 60,000 people, you know, you and
• 36:02
  I got to the point where we were playing in front of hundreds of
• 36:04
  thousand. Imagine that time 60 now you
• 36:07
  have to be the guy that gets up there and goes, Houston, what
• 36:11
  the fuck is going on tonight, right?
• 36:13
  And I don't maintain that for two hours, you know?
• 36:16
  You know what's funny about it? Though, And, and in my
• 36:18
  experience, the bigger the audience, the easier it is.
• 36:21
  Yeah, I, I think that is because there, there's so much human
• 36:25
  energy that you can't help but let loose 'cause I, I had a
• 36:29
  friend pass away. His name was Buzz Fowler.
• 36:32
  He was a Blues guy and he did Blues jams.
• 36:35
  So cool. He had me as in the back line
• 36:37
  for a while, but he had passed away in 2015.
• 36:42
  And as a tribute to him, we got to play this Blues Festival, you
• 36:44
  know, in Phoenix, that big park that's above the bridge by on
• 36:47
  7th St. Yeah.
• 36:49
  Yep. My office is.
• 36:50
  Down they asked me. To play guitar of all things,
• 36:54
  but I'm playing this this Blues guitar.
• 36:56
  And normally I'm apprehensive and everything, but when I got
• 37:00
  on there, it's just like I just let loose.
• 37:02
  And it was probably the best solo I've ever played in my
• 37:04
  whole life. And I equate that to just the
• 37:07
  energy and that it's cool when you can get to that level
• 37:11
  because when. You're we're.
• 37:13
  At our level, it's, it's full. You're having to put it out
• 37:17
  there with, you know, without that energy exactly.
• 37:21
  So that's why a lot of people. Give up because you can only do
• 37:25
  that so, so long until you, you know, it drains you Do you feel,
• 37:29
  you know, disheartened, I guess, or, or, or whatever it is.
• 37:31
  You feel right. But that's, it's like you said,
• 37:36
  it's that feeling you probably if you were every musician,
• 37:39
  you'd chase it your whole life. Like it to this day, I'm like
• 37:42
  every time I get on stage, I can play the Mesa Music Festival in
• 37:45
  April and we got to play the mainstage.
• 37:47
  We were the we were second from opening.
• 37:50
  I don't care. I was up there just, you know,
• 37:54
  it's just. Like you're just raging.
• 37:55
  Up there, you feel like you're 10 feet tall.
• 37:57
  I'm a very short person, so that's impressive for me.
• 38:00
  So but and that's why I think, but I never worried about being
• 38:05
  short because 1 of what I thought one of the best singers
• 38:08
  in the world was Ryan James Dio. I was just going to say that
• 38:12
  foot nothing. Actually.
• 38:13
  Klaus mind. You know, scorpions.
• 38:16
  Oh my goodness. You know, you know, I learned
• 38:19
  later in life, there's all the things that I can appreciate.
• 38:23
  The music I listen to in a completely different way.
• 38:26
  It's really weird. I'm like, wow, I didn't even
• 38:28
  realize this, you know, I didn't realize how this guy was playing
• 38:31
  this or how he was doing that. I just when I'm a kid, I was
• 38:33
  like, well, that's cool. And it pisses my parents off and
• 38:36
  I'm rocking, you know, yeah, hey, let's go drink some beers
• 38:38
  and smoke some weed. Whatever it is we're going to
• 38:40
  do. We'd be lying if we said that we
• 38:42
  were now. Now if I there's a bunch of
• 38:44
  girls in. The video so I want.
• 38:45
  To be there. Hey, man.
• 38:47
  That's too. That's too bad.
• 38:48
  Because, you know, I was. Really sophisticated back then
• 38:51
  and I understood what we were doing and I was totally in tune
• 38:54
  with the world and we. Didn't know shit.
• 38:58
  No. But we knew we were having fun
• 39:01
  though. Yeah, it's the one.
• 39:03
  The one thing I like about, that's the only thing I like
• 39:05
  about getting older is your appreciation for things that you
• 39:08
  overlooked in a, you know, in a younger perspective.
• 39:12
  It's so it's kind of what keeps me going, you know, regardless
• 39:18
  of what's going on in my life. Yeah, I'll give you a stupid
• 39:20
  example. I just told Chris I just bought
• 39:22
  a new car. It's the first time I've ever
• 39:24
  bought like a car that I really wanted and I was able to pay
• 39:27
  cash for it and come home with the title, right.
• 39:29
  It was a huge accomplishment and it's cool, you know, that's an.
• 39:33
  Old person's. Goal.
• 39:35
  It's like, wow, it is old person gold.
• 39:39
  That I was horrible with money I I'm me too.
• 39:41
  I'm a Ramsey head right now, so you and I live together and we.
• 39:44
  Had to worry about paying. Right.
• 39:47
  So this is the first time I only did I have right now is this new
• 39:50
  house that I just bought in May Congratulations.
• 39:54
  And since I'm. Poor it's in Florence but the
• 39:58
  cool thing was I was able to sell the house I had with my ex
• 40:03
  and at this. Point in time.
• 40:04
  After having putting the money down, I'm actually owed like a
• 40:06
  few 1000 less in the brand new house and my payment is less in
• 40:10
  the brand new house. Where is Florence in relation?
• 40:13
  I don't think I've. Ever been there?
• 40:14
  Florence is like Southeast. Of, you know, Phoenix and Mesa
• 40:18
  in that area, Yeah. If you know what Queen Creek is,
• 40:21
  it probably don't. Oh, it's out that way.
• 40:22
  Yeah, I know where, Yeah. It's well the it's well the
• 40:24
  prison system. It's the prison, Yeah, Prison
• 40:26
  city. I was, I was out there.
• 40:28
  I. I legit, dude, I was.
• 40:29
  I was out there yesterday. Yeah, the cool thing is I'm not.
• 40:32
  I'm still influenced, but technically I'm just a sidestep
• 40:36
  from San Anton Valleys, which is where I live before.
• 40:38
  Oh, you're over by the anthem. You're.
• 40:39
  Over by the Dell web stuff, I'm actually just north the I'm.
• 40:42
  A magma rancher which is just north of OK OK.
• 40:45
  That anthem, yeah, Where he lives, we're.
• 40:46
  In 21 countries. Yeah, yeah, which is true.
• 40:50
  Well, Matt didn't come out to Florence.
• 40:53
  I was talking about autographs on Saturday, right?
• 40:55
  September 15th Well. I'm not going to give you my
• 40:59
  address, but no, we'll, we'll stop right there, Yeah.
• 41:04
  No, Florence is a cool town man. It, you know, Phoenix is taking
• 41:09
  over anyway. I mean, they're pretty soon
• 41:11
  they're going to be that way and then start heading towards
• 41:13
  Tucson, Phoenix, Tucson will be one well.
• 41:17
  Maybe mountains? Kind of impede some of that.
• 41:19
  Thankfully, that's the only good thing about Arizona.
• 41:21
  There's certain areas where there's not going to be able to
• 41:23
  build, no, but. I'm a big believer they should
• 41:26
  have. Gone.
• 41:27
  They should have done that, you know, start filling that, that
• 41:29
  desert between Phoenix and Maricopa and Maricopa and Casa
• 41:33
  Grande. Casa Grande, Tucson.
• 41:34
  Yeah, Yeah. Stop building the mountains.
• 41:37
  Man, stop taking away that stuff because I don't want to like
• 41:40
  when I had to drove, I was at Florence yesterday in the
• 41:42
  morning and then I was in in Apache Junction the afternoon.
• 41:45
  But as Apache Junction, the cool part to where you're going down
• 41:48
  Superstition Blvd. the you know, the road and you're and you just
• 41:52
  see all these the the sea of homes, which is not the meth
• 41:56
  capital of the world anymore. Where where you're at, where I
• 41:58
  was at, because it's all the homes that you can see
• 42:00
  Superstition Mountains and it's a really cool spot where I was
• 42:04
  at in a general way. And that's the thing.
• 42:08
  I don't like that they're building into the mountains.
• 42:10
  I just I don't did it and I live at Power Rd. in Chandler
• 42:13
  Heights. So I'm basically Queen Creek,
• 42:14
  Gilbert border and along what is that hunt highway?
• 42:22
  Is it hunt? Highway that turns it's.
• 42:23
  No, it's Santan. It's one of the surface streets.
• 42:26
  Before you get to Ellsworth and turn right, go down Gary.
• 42:29
  But they built in the mountain man like a couple years.
• 42:33
  Ago I was I was driving on. Like holy shit, they cut out,
• 42:36
  they blew out this part of the mountain and like 3 months later
• 42:38
  there's a house up there. It's the dumbest place for a.
• 42:42
  House, it's all you're looking at.
• 42:44
  Yeah, you're fine talking. About the the Santan mountains
• 42:46
  there. Yeah, yeah.
• 42:48
  But. It's on, but it's on the on the
• 42:50
  the further. It's not really Santan Mountains
• 42:54
  itself. But it's the it's the, it's the
• 42:56
  further kind of mountains itself that's that's West of that.
• 43:00
  And legit, if you took if you took halls straight down till it
• 43:03
  stopped, you could see this house right there.
• 43:05
  And it's just, I'm like, that's the stupidest place to put a
• 43:07
  house. There's you're looking at dirt.
• 43:10
  You're looking at dirt like Camelback Mountain.
• 43:13
  I get you know, but. Yeah.
• 43:17
  I just don't understand why people are building houses on
• 43:19
  mountain sides. Like stop it because they can.
• 43:23
  I know. Just stop.
• 43:25
  It and I'm a realtor. And I don't want that.
• 43:32
  Wow. All right, we got about. 5
• 43:35
  minutes left because you got to get get to practice.
• 43:39
  So what? What do you guys?
• 43:42
  Want to talk about? Look, you're all speechless.
• 43:47
  Give me your top. Three favorite songs you either
• 43:51
  like to I don't give me your top three favorite songs that we
• 43:55
  played that you'd like to perform live the most oh man,
• 43:59
  since I. Haven't talked to you in what?
• 44:01
  20 years now, the only ones I'm probably gonna.
• 44:03
  Remember, like the. Problem is we changed the names
• 44:11
  Oh. OK, well go back to.
• 44:12
  Go back to when. Chris was in the band.
• 44:13
  What were your three favorite songs?
• 44:15
  Oh. That's a tough one all.
• 44:19
  Right, I'm willing to. I don't really have favorites.
• 44:24
  You give me a listen, I'll play them.
• 44:25
  I like them all. How about that?
• 44:27
  That's a good answer. I which?
• 44:29
  He's being. How about this which which 3?
• 44:34
  Are you know? Are you feeling that?
• 44:35
  You're close that you want me to play on.
• 44:37
  I guess that that's what we were to go back your way for sure,
• 44:41
  Freeman and. Listen to your sin.
• 44:43
  Yeah, OK. Vision.
• 44:44
  Vision. Yeah, I, I was going to say
• 44:46
  vision. Yeah, if we could pull off
• 44:48
  energy. Intervention Divine.
• 44:49
  I don't know if we could do that without Scott.
• 44:53
  Yes, God, I'm going to tell you. Man, it's a whole lot of heart
• 44:57
  man. I've never heard a drummer that
• 45:00
  actually plays like him. There might be a few that maybe
• 45:06
  it. Reminds me of.
• 45:06
  But that was it. He was a true individual, that's
• 45:11
  for sure. Say about him.
• 45:13
  Is he he? Was the first person.
• 45:16
  That ever gave me the confidence to let me play my guitar the way
• 45:19
  that I thought was right. Because I don't, you know, I
• 45:23
  don't necessarily play like everybody else either.
• 45:25
  You know, I wrote in weird time signatures.
• 45:27
  Sometimes people who were just only adept at playing 4/4 time
• 45:32
  would tell you that you're wrong.
• 45:33
  And he was the first guy to go. You're not wrong about anything,
• 45:36
  man, but it's weird. So you got to do it a few times.
• 45:39
  So I know what you're doing. I got to count it out, right?
• 45:41
  Right. Basically what he was saying in
• 45:43
  a nice way is, I know you're not counting, you're doing something
• 45:46
  weird there, but I dig it, right?
• 45:48
  Yeah. He didn't just chastise me and
• 45:50
  say it's wrong. I always appreciated that,
• 45:52
  right? It's not.
• 45:53
  It's not. Wrong.
• 45:54
  You know, 4-4 doesn't rule the world and actually it's quite
• 45:58
  boring unless you're playing dance music, Correct.
• 46:01
  You know so. Like I was.
• 46:05
  Telling you before the show, I think the Bannerman now they
• 46:08
  love Dream Theater. They've taken me after, like
• 46:11
  everyone for the last three years.
• 46:13
  In fact, COVID made me never want to not when someone says,
• 46:17
  hey, you want to go to a concert.
• 46:18
  I say yes because being stuck in a house for over that that was
• 46:23
  a. Nightmare for me.
• 46:24
  And I got hey. Let's just say this, I had it.
• 46:27
  Four times I'm still, I'm still sitting.
• 46:29
  I had I had it twice, but. That's according to them.
• 46:32
  I had it four times. So if the insurance was paying
• 46:34
  for it, of course I had it. But, and here, you know, and I'm
• 46:38
  going to tell you something, I actually studied this and they,
• 46:42
  they talked about the deaths, right.
• 46:44
  The numbers are put in the deaths were less than 1%, less
• 46:48
  than .001% of the population of America.
• 46:53
  So, and also the numbers directly correlated with if we
• 46:57
  went back a year or two later with the flu and the cold, the
• 47:00
  death numbers were almost identical.
• 47:01
  We were also. So it's just that we're paying
• 47:03
  the same all they're doing is paying attention to it now and
• 47:07
  telling you about it, whereas before this stuff was happening
• 47:09
  all the time. There's so many of us here on
• 47:12
  this planet. Something has to kill some of us
• 47:15
  or we'll just, you know, we'll overrun the place.
• 47:17
  It's a natural, you know. Yeah.
• 47:19
  The the way I thought about it, if I if I'm going to die, it's
• 47:21
  my time to go. I don't.
• 47:23
  There's no reason to worry about it.
• 47:25
  It's not something to worry about.
• 47:27
  Nope. And I think we're most people,
• 47:29
  they die anyway. Yeah.
• 47:31
  Yeah. And most people that died
• 47:33
  probably had some underlying things already going on.
• 47:36
  You know, I've, I've lost a few people to cancer, you know, in
• 47:39
  these, I swear last five years. And it's just people, too.
• 47:43
  Yeah. It might have, I mean.
• 47:44
  Because you never know how something like that's gonna
• 47:46
  react. There's no way you come up with
• 47:47
  Ohio. This is going to cure it.
• 47:49
  In the short amount of time they did that.
• 47:50
  This takes like decades to do. Here's what kept me from
• 47:53
  getting. That just to put it on the
• 47:55
  record, I heard before I ever decided to either get it or not
• 47:59
  get it. Luckily I heard the statistic
• 48:02
  that it took them 50 years to develop a polio vaccine.
• 48:05
  Right, right, right. And then I'm like, they whipped
• 48:07
  up some witches brew in six months and they're going to jab
• 48:10
  that in my arm. I don't fucking think that I did
• 48:12
  it once. And.
• 48:12
  I survived it, but the second time I was like, I don't see
• 48:15
  what the point is because I still got sick and that's what
• 48:19
  happened to a lot of people. So the.
• 48:20
  Fact they called it a vaccination was a misnomer
• 48:23
  because you got a polio vaccination and you've never had
• 48:26
  polio, right? You got a small vaccination and
• 48:29
  you never got smallpox. So they kind of lied to
• 48:32
  everybody calling it a vaccination because you just
• 48:35
  proved everybody got sick anyway.
• 48:37
  Yeah. That's the part that pissed.
• 48:40
  Me off the most it's like you're fucking lying to everybody so
• 48:44
  that you can make money for the pharmaceutical companies and
• 48:46
  that it's just they're doing it right in front of your face yeah
• 48:50
  I start to think I'm. Living in a different dimension.
• 48:52
  Than everybody else sometimes, you know, Do you not see this?
• 48:57
  Right. A lot of people, I guess they
• 48:58
  don't care to see it. It's easier to get your answers
• 49:02
  fed to you and that that's what and that's part of this, you
• 49:05
  know, this electronic thing like it's much under.
• 49:07
  I heard it was watching, I think it was your podcast on the
• 49:12
  Mason. Jar.
• 49:14
  OK. And then?
• 49:14
  Chris is all well, I think. Rick just said he's had, he said
• 49:19
  fuck me, you know, he's mad at me or something like that.
• 49:22
  I'm like, well, that wasn't, you know, that wasn't the case.
• 49:26
  I did rib you once, but you were saying something about take over
• 49:30
  the world. And I said something like, well,
• 49:31
  I thought you already did that, you know, I already did what?
• 49:32
  Take over the world. But I I am a smart ass, you
• 49:35
  know, so but you, you don't hear my inflection or my little
• 49:40
  joking manner over a text. And that, that's what sucks
• 49:43
  about the digital communication. You misunderstandings, you know?
• 49:47
  Yeah, it's all good. Man Plus I wanted us to laugh.
• 49:49
  After talking about that COVID stuff, because I know it's like
• 49:52
  politics and religion, we just get down in the hole and start
• 49:55
  getting mad about things, you know?
• 49:57
  No, we won't get mad because. I think we're on the same page
• 50:00
  on most of those things. Yeah, Yeah, we are with.
• 50:03
  Holy shit, what? Happened to Christian.
• 50:05
  He's floating in the ether just. Fucking.
• 50:08
  Stupid start talking. About.
• 50:09
  Politics and religion and the world.
• 50:11
  The government does. Stuff that that that no get an
• 50:14
  opinion anymore. They do.
• 50:15
  We've talked about. That before it's a whole level.
• 50:17
  But yeah, seriously. Mike, what is the I?
• 50:21
  Don't like I don't have a favorite.
• 50:21
  If you have something in mind, the black.
• 50:23
  And as far as that goes, I thought maybe you guys were too
• 50:26
  busy. Maybe I should have reached out
• 50:27
  sooner. No, no, no, Because you did.
• 50:30
  I was. Like, you know.
• 50:30
  These guys are probably busy doing stuff, so I was kind of
• 50:33
  waiting to hear your thoughts from you guys.
• 50:35
  Here's what happened. We started, we started.
• 50:39
  Committing to do. This show about this time two
• 50:42
  years ago. So yes.
• 50:46
  Yeah, it would have been in July. him and I started talking
• 50:48
  seriously. I started buying equipment.
• 50:50
  You know me. I went all out.
• 50:52
  Oh, hell yeah. I have the best.
• 50:53
  Of the best of. Everything.
• 50:55
  So I installed all that, got it up and running about August
• 51:01
  25th, 29th. We went to 10 hour shifts four
• 51:05
  days a week. Oh boy.
• 51:10
  He's saying everybody's frozen. Now we're still here.
• 51:14
  I'll say. No, just you.
• 51:21
  Oh. No weird.
• 51:22
  Sorry, ladies and gentlemen. Chris is frozen right now.
• 51:24
  I tend to forget we're live on YouTube and Twitch too, so I
• 51:27
  know this would be this would be a good.
• 51:28
  One, you can put this in the outtake reel.
• 51:31
  So anyway. At 40 some I was, you know, I
• 51:37
  just, I'm going to turn 52 next month.
• 51:38
  So I guess I know I'm a year ahead of you.
• 51:42
  Yeah, because on my end, both. You guys are.
• 51:45
  Frozen. I didn't catch that one when I'm
• 51:49
  my. Screen too fast.
• 51:51
  Sorry I got to text this. Guy back, ladies and gentlemen.
• 51:58
  He'll just have another track. He's good.
• 52:02
  So my dreams of doing. Music after work.
• 52:10
  Yeah, four days a week, basically, other than being able
• 52:13
  to practice and play. So I did have the dream that we
• 52:16
  were going to do the podcast and record at the same time, but put
• 52:20
  recording on the back burner for a while.
• 52:22
  I can probably do it now for sure because we've been doing
• 52:25
  this so long. I developed a routine so much so
• 52:29
  that we do it twice a week. We were only doing it a week for
• 52:31
  like, yeah, I saw that you guys. Kind of ramped it up here this
• 52:35
  year. Are they in the last year?
• 52:37
  Yeah, it was. Like in March, he put out the
• 52:40
  Feelers. Do you want to be a guest on the
• 52:42
  show? And he got inundated with, you
• 52:44
  know, like, yeah, awesome. We didn't think.
• 52:46
  We'd get anybody. And we got no, you got some, you
• 52:50
  got some really cool. Inspirational people that assume
• 52:54
  wow actually is that where name was Yeah, that was wow this
• 52:57
  time. Like I can relate to a lot of
• 52:59
  this yeah yeah. That gorgeous woman is on top of
• 53:03
  this. But, you know, smart.
• 53:06
  Like super smart, really. Cool.
• 53:10
  Just the stuff she was saying you could totally relate to,
• 53:13
  sure. And then you know so.
• 53:16
  And not just a lot of the episodes.
• 53:18
  You've had a lot of cool people. I appreciate that man.
• 53:21
  It's been neat to be able to meet these people and like in
• 53:25
  her case, get an immigrant story out.
• 53:28
  You know, now you're, you're listening to her.
• 53:30
  Is this somebody that you would want to if she still didn't have
• 53:33
  her paperwork? Is this somebody you'd really
• 53:35
  want to deport right now? No.
• 53:37
  Somebody that's going to. College.
• 53:39
  And trying to do the right thing, right to help the world.
• 53:41
  What she? What missed out on her dream
• 53:43
  college thing because of that? Absolutely.
• 53:46
  And I think that's. So sad, you know, Hey, we got
• 53:49
  double Chris now. Hey, we got Chris times 2.
• 53:52
  Ladies and gentlemen, this is a first I.
• 53:55
  I sound out on the other one. Is it still there?
• 53:59
  Yeah, yeah, for Rick. And I it is, can you not?
• 54:01
  He's like, I can't. I just see the three of us.
• 54:05
  I just thought you'd turn. Into 3 purple dots that flash no
• 54:07
  all my I have. Two internets and I have two
• 54:10
  internets and for some reason the satellite gods don't like
• 54:12
  either 1. I don't know what's going on
• 54:14
  switching back and forth. It's something, dude.
• 54:17
  And I'm, well, yeah, you know. What I'd say I was talking about
• 54:21
  music. I'm also talking about this
• 54:23
  show, if you guys need any help. Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:25
  Dude, come join us. You're welcome on.
• 54:27
  Here anytime man. If you want to run, talk music.
• 54:30
  You know, I love to talk music and we always have a good banter
• 54:34
  when it comes to that. So I was hoping, so I was hoping
• 54:37
  I wouldn't. Just sit here and you know, not
• 54:41
  think of anything to say, but I wouldn't let you.
• 54:43
  I wouldn't. I wouldn't let.
• 54:44
  You be sad. I was.
• 54:45
  I would poke your brain like no, I understand that.
• 54:47
  But your last couple guests have been like, really like, they're
• 54:51
  like, this is a serious show, you know, thank you.
• 54:53
  Really cool stuff, really engaging.
• 54:55
  Like the the, you know, I'll be honest with you, some podcasts
• 54:59
  too, and I just kind of snooze out.
• 55:01
  Might do love them. Yeah, but it's like you guys
• 55:04
  said, yours is just like this. We're just three people talking
• 55:06
  about things, and it's just whatever comes up.
• 55:09
  Well, now, yeah, now for the people who are all listening.
• 55:13
  Ladies and gentlemen of the world, 21 countries.
• 55:15
  This is another guy who was sitting there after the show.
• 55:18
  This was my idea, was the conversations that the four of
• 55:22
  us had when we were done before or after practice, right?
• 55:26
  Those are some of my favorite conversations about life, where
• 55:29
  we're going. You know, we were young, growing
• 55:32
  as people. Who are we going to be?
• 55:33
  How do we look at the world? It's our time now, that kind of
• 55:36
  thing. I missed those conversations,
• 55:39
  and that's what I wanted this show to be.
• 55:41
  Yeah, that's cool. So you were a member of?
• 55:44
  A lot of those conversations, yeah.
• 55:48
  And I always appreciate your. Humor and your ability, If we
• 55:51
  ever had a tense situation, you had a really good ability of
• 55:54
  saying something goofy or silly that just brought everybody back
• 55:58
  to reality, you know? Well, yeah, trust me.
• 56:03
  I have. There's a dark cloud that
• 56:06
  follows me. Most of my life.
• 56:08
  So it's best to try and find the joy in the situation.
• 56:14
  Yeah, I remember and and. I was.
• 56:16
  The funny part was is I wasn't very much an angrier person then
• 56:21
  really so. I I would.
• 56:23
  Attribute to you guys to bringing out my the side of me
• 56:25
  that actually can, you know, be productive or or or take joy in
• 56:30
  something. And it was like a, like I said,
• 56:32
  a brotherhood, you know, even more I, I'm, I'm always longing
• 56:37
  for family. I didn't have a family, you
• 56:38
  know, my parents divorced when I was 5.
• 56:41
  I ended up living with my father, who was a self loathing,
• 56:46
  hateful person to himself. So why, if anyone loved him, why
• 56:50
  were they worth anything, right? He's no longer with us.
• 56:54
  He actually died about this time last year, but I hadn't talked
• 56:58
  to him and. Is that so?
• 57:00
  That's a good thing. Congratulations, because see,
• 57:03
  when I'm waiting for the time when my mother never
• 57:05
  congratulations. The sad part is, it was.
• 57:08
  Yeah, here's here's here's the messed up thing.
• 57:11
  You know, as much as as much as I was, I was angry with him and
• 57:15
  and the only thing he gave me was self loathing and hatred to
• 57:19
  be honest with you and everything in me that that I'm
• 57:25
  not. You know that whole I'm not.
• 57:26
  Good enough. That's my daily thing I fight
• 57:28
  against, you know, no matter how good I am, I will never think
• 57:31
  I'm good enough for anything. And that's some of that too,
• 57:34
  dude. So.
• 57:35
  Yeah, so I'm. The funny part is that I was
• 57:38
  trying to go to counseling for the couples thing and then the
• 57:41
  other side of the couple said, well, no, you're the problem,
• 57:43
  you need to go. So I went to counseling.
• 57:46
  I found out she was the problem. Not so much that you know she's
• 57:50
  the whole problem, but us together is a problem.
• 57:53
  So, well, the one thing I'll say.
• 57:55
  About being an artist is I think there's a little bit of that in
• 57:58
  all of us because that's how we're able to channel our our
• 58:03
  our feelings to our audience, right?
• 58:05
  Well, yeah, my favorite people Comedians.
• 58:06
  Almost all of them had a like a horrible life.
• 58:10
  Of course, you know, like I always think it's when your life
• 58:13
  is the worst upbringing. You're one of my favorite.
• 58:15
  People, yeah. You wouldn't have been in that
• 58:17
  band if you weren't, man, I don't think.
• 58:18
  I realize. I know that you looked up to me
• 58:21
  as a player at the time. Yeah, I really, definitely.
• 58:24
  I always knew it. Dude.
• 58:25
  But I never took advantage of that because you didn't know it,
• 58:28
  but I looked up to you as well because without you standing
• 58:32
  there, there was no band, right? You know.
• 58:35
  I appreciated the fact that when I.
• 58:36
  Looked over on that side of the stage, you were you had a smile
• 58:39
  that could have cracked the world, you know?
• 58:41
  Oh, yeah, I would that. I guess that's.
• 58:42
  What it is when your life kind of sucks, you, you search to it
• 58:46
  more, Yeah. Well, I mean you as a person.
• 58:49
  You search for something better, you know you're you're always on
• 58:52
  the search for what's the the best side of life.
• 58:55
  Sure, I already know what the worst side is.
• 58:57
  I already know what being miserable is what is you know
• 59:01
  what makes people happy. You know what makes the funny
• 59:05
  part is that 53 it's the first time in my life I've actually
• 59:08
  been truly alone. It's probably the first time in
• 59:10
  my life I'm going to find out who I am as a person.
• 59:12
  That's sad 5350, you know, so this is all happening for a good
• 59:20
  reason and I and I'm sorry I delayed it, but to be honest
• 59:23
  with you, I was ending a lot of bad.
• 59:25
  There was a bad chapter in my life that was ending when you
• 59:28
  guys were starting this, so I hope that it didn't come off as
• 59:35
  I was, you know, bitter about passing all this stuff.
• 59:37
  Dude, it's it's time. You just.
• 59:39
  Don't know. So we, I think we speculated,
• 59:42
  you know, I don't think we ever said we knew the way it was.
• 59:44
  I think Chris said, you know, I think this is, you know, I don't
• 59:47
  think he said it was definitive. But if you don't know, because
• 59:50
  you were the guy who was the quietest guy, we didn't know a
• 59:53
  lot about you when you were in the band, right?
• 59:55
  If anybody knew the least about anybody, they knew the least
• 59:58
  about Rick. That's my fault though.
• 1:00:01
  I don't share as much. Everybody's got their own
• 1:00:03
  personality, brother. We knew everything about Scott
• 1:00:06
  because he started bitching from the moment you you walk through
• 1:00:09
  the door. It's like, here's what's on my
• 1:00:11
  mind and you're going to hear about it.
• 1:00:13
  You know? That was his personality.
• 1:00:14
  Yeah, I have a. It's like a.
• 1:00:16
  Kind of a sad Scott story. Chris was somewhere in between.
• 1:00:19
  And I was somewhere in between and you were at the bottom.
• 1:00:21
  It's like I was the only one that that he was.
• 1:00:24
  At one time I'd done something. His son was like smacking me in
• 1:00:27
  the ass or something like that. So I said, hey, cut it out and
• 1:00:30
  fucking Scott went off on me. I remember that day.
• 1:00:32
  And I said, well, I really don't want to say something I regret.
• 1:00:35
  So I put my base down and just walked out.
• 1:00:37
  At that point, I we're living in Scott's little secondary part of
• 1:00:41
  the house. Yeah, we were right.
• 1:00:42
  I was. Anyway, I don't remember if Mike
• 1:00:44
  was there. Yeah, but that that that really
• 1:00:47
  hurt me. And I, I didn't want to sit
• 1:00:50
  there and freak out as I was actually, I was about to tears
• 1:00:54
  to be honest with you, because I was like, this is going to ruin
• 1:00:56
  something that I know is something really special.
• 1:00:58
  Thankfully, it didn't. Because I.
• 1:01:00
  Cussed him out after. I was like, yeah, that's not the
• 1:01:03
  way. You handle it.
• 1:01:04
  That's your brother, man. That's not just anybody.
• 1:01:06
  That's and I wasn't race player man.
• 1:01:09
  Well, I I. Waited like the.
• 1:01:10
  Kid was doing it like 5-10 times in a row and all I said was hey
• 1:01:13
  hey stop it. I don't know, it was a trip I'm
• 1:01:18
  pretty sure. It's it's funny things you.
• 1:01:19
  Remembered he did but I have a sad Scott story like later.
• 1:01:25
  I want to say this is about 2001.
• 1:01:28
  I had moved into the the. One of the guys I worked with
• 1:01:31
  had a little condo in the Lakes, and I'm up there in the Lakes
• 1:01:34
  and I seen a guy rummaging through like the dumpsters, I
• 1:01:37
  think it was with his youngest daughter.
• 1:01:39
  And I'm like, that guy looks familiar.
• 1:01:40
  I went out and it was actually Scott.
• 1:01:41
  I didn't want to say anything to embarrass him, but I was like,
• 1:01:45
  this dude's hit hard times. He looked, he looked rough.
• 1:01:47
  This is at 2001. He went.
• 1:01:49
  So I don't know. Rough times, man.
• 1:01:50
  Yeah. I think that's probably after
• 1:01:52
  his divorce. Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  Oh yeah. And it got married again.
• 1:01:55
  Then he had a oh, did it? It was.
• 1:01:58
  Yeah, it was. Life just started to pile on
• 1:02:00
  top. Of him.
• 1:02:00
  And I really want to have either Jeremiah or Carrie come on and
• 1:02:04
  tell his story because I think it's right for them to do it
• 1:02:07
  because they know the story. Yeah, but nothing.
• 1:02:10
  Makes me. Sadder than as much as you two
• 1:02:13
  were integral and making that band happen.
• 1:02:16
  He was there from the beginning and never gave up on me, right?
• 1:02:19
  He was the one that kept me going.
• 1:02:21
  A lot of people don't know that there was after we lost our
• 1:02:24
  first bass player, Slash Singer, I thought we were done when he
• 1:02:27
  packed up his drums and left. I'm like, fuck, my band just
• 1:02:30
  ended and it's all over. I've.
• 1:02:31
  I've made it like one year in Arizona and I got to come back
• 1:02:35
  home with my tail between my legs because This is why I came
• 1:02:37
  out here. And he called me up like 2 weeks
• 1:02:40
  later and he's like, dude, what the fuck are you doing?
• 1:02:42
  And I'm like, I thought we were done.
• 1:02:44
  He's like, I'm done with that dude, I ain't done with you.
• 1:02:47
  You play like a monster. You know, that's sweet.
• 1:02:50
  And yeah. It just warm my heart man.
• 1:02:53
  So that's what he meant to me and Scott in.
• 1:02:56
  Some ways he probably was more like me.
• 1:02:58
  He did have a lot of issues as far as like probably sadness and
• 1:03:04
  all that sadness and anger and stuff like that.
• 1:03:07
  But that he was more, he was, I was so I'd be as polar opposite.
• 1:03:10
  He was outward about it, his anger and everything.
• 1:03:12
  I was probably inward, correct. Well, maybe that's what made,
• 1:03:15
  that's what made the the rhythm section so tight.
• 1:03:17
  The dynamic was definitely that was like, yes, we're both kind
• 1:03:20
  of on the same spectrum, but we're on the opposite sides of
• 1:03:23
  it. But I had to.
• 1:03:25
  I love Scott. Me too.
• 1:03:27
  And. As many times as he might.
• 1:03:28
  Have done something I'm like dude man and it was it was
• 1:03:32
  alcohol and that that was him probably maybe trying to silence
• 1:03:35
  the demons you know whatever everyone has to do something to
• 1:03:39
  it may not be the right way to handle it but the one thing I
• 1:03:42
  can say because. He was my brother and we shared
• 1:03:44
  the stage many times. And more importantly, we talked
• 1:03:47
  for thousands of hours about life.
• 1:03:49
  And the one thing that we had in common is there's, you said it
• 1:03:53
  earlier, there's just some kind of underlying pressure that's I
• 1:03:59
  don't want to call it negative and I don't want to make it
• 1:04:01
  sound like it's, whoa, I'm going to go down that road too.
• 1:04:04
  But there's just something that if you don't calm that voice all
• 1:04:08
  the time, it's dangerous. But that's also what.
• 1:04:11
  Makes us. Empathetic towards other
• 1:04:13
  people's emotions and we feel their feelings.
• 1:04:16
  Like you said, there's times where we walk into a room and
• 1:04:18
  it's like either I've been here before or I need to leave
• 1:04:21
  immediately and right. Right.
• 1:04:24
  Those are the. Things that also make.
• 1:04:26
  You a great artist, so it's not something you chose to do.
• 1:04:29
  Chris didn't wake up and say I'm going to be a singer, right?
• 1:04:33
  He tried to do a few other things first and he kind of was
• 1:04:35
  drawn into that direction and all the other things he did
• 1:04:39
  leading up to that point made him the front man that he is.
• 1:04:41
  The acting, the writing, you know, all the work he put into
• 1:04:45
  that paid off the moment he stepped on that stage and his
• 1:04:48
  brain went, OK, now I know why I went through all that other
• 1:04:51
  stuff before. I was the front man of a what
• 1:04:54
  and and the benefit I. Had because I have all those, I
• 1:04:56
  have all the human chose that. Right.
• 1:05:01
  Yeah, well. What I'm saying is the reason.
• 1:05:04
  But the, but the, but the benefit, the benefit of, of me
• 1:05:07
  is, is I learned how to use those demons in a proactive way
• 1:05:11
  because of writing and then reacting and then the singing.
• 1:05:15
  That's how I purged all that. That's how I got all that
• 1:05:17
  darkness out of me to the I mean, it's still in there, but
• 1:05:20
  it's it, it left to the point to where it became manageable
• 1:05:23
  within the soul and it didn't. Control it and.
• 1:05:26
  That was from a, from a singer standpoint, that was that gift
• 1:05:30
  that I had. And that was, I didn't realize I
• 1:05:31
  was going to go into music when I, when I learned I could be a
• 1:05:34
  writer. But that's, that's what kept me
• 1:05:36
  sane. That's what kept me from going
• 1:05:38
  even darker down the path of alcoholism or whatever else I
• 1:05:40
  could have ended up doing because I had the outlet.
• 1:05:43
  My brother didn't have the outlet.
• 1:05:45
  His life was fucked up for years and years and years.
• 1:05:47
  She's finally turned it around. But he played the blame game on
• 1:05:50
  every. Same with.
• 1:05:51
  That's the same. With my brothers, right?
• 1:05:52
  So I didn't. That's the.
• 1:05:53
  Benefit of of Yeah, my youngest. The creative side that helped
• 1:05:57
  me. Maintain some little level of
• 1:06:00
  sanity when really there was always something like going on
• 1:06:04
  in my brain. You guys, most people just
• 1:06:05
  didn't realize it because I had the outlets and the outlets were
• 1:06:08
  what I needed to to purchase stuff, you know, most.
• 1:06:13
  People don't have that, so that's one of.
• 1:06:14
  The cool things about it, well, I had those same conversations.
• 1:06:16
  With you, I didn't know that you had all that going on, Right,
• 1:06:19
  Right, I would say. Thankfully, Chris, that you
• 1:06:22
  turned, you turned this into something positive and looking
• 1:06:25
  at your life where it is now, it makes me happy.
• 1:06:29
  You know, things, the things that you've accomplished, the
• 1:06:31
  fact that you've been with, you know, you've created a family.
• 1:06:35
  It's something I would always wanted to do, but it might not
• 1:06:38
  just be in the cards for me, but it's fun.
• 1:06:41
  It's cool to see, you know how you use use these things like in
• 1:06:45
  your personality and you use them to your benefit.
• 1:06:49
  The real estate thing I might, I was like that, this is perfect
• 1:06:52
  for him. Like I would never thought like
• 1:06:54
  when I first met him, oh, he's going to be a real estate guy.
• 1:06:56
  No, I would never think that. But watching you do it, seeing
• 1:07:00
  you in your element, it's like that's kind of where this, you
• 1:07:03
  know, everything that we've done and it, well, maybe we can use
• 1:07:06
  Nemesis as that. That was like our Nemesis,
• 1:07:09
  Nemesis 2. .0 about about life made.
• 1:07:12
  Together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2.0 It's
• 1:07:16
  coming. Now he's got to find.
• 1:07:19
  Yeah, no, it's. Coming you're you're.
• 1:07:22
  Back in the mix. So now it's just I have somebody
• 1:07:24
  in mind, I think. And.
• 1:07:28
  I have somebody in. Mind, I think can.
• 1:07:29
  Program some drums for us and if I can get that laid down, then
• 1:07:33
  the rest will be a piece of cake because you have a way to record
• 1:07:36
  at your house and I have a way to record.
• 1:07:37
  Yeah, and I mean I could. I could piece together drums
• 1:07:40
  pretty easy too through Logic and stuff like that you're
• 1:07:42
  about. 30 minutes. You're about 30 minutes from me,
• 1:07:45
  Rick. So we're not that far from a
• 1:07:47
  location standpoint, yeah. That's true.
• 1:07:51
  Simple or as complex? As you.
• 1:07:53
  Want be for? Freeman.
• 1:07:56
  And send me a WAV file, I'll lay down a guitar part for you.
• 1:08:02
  All right, the cool the. Cool thing about logic it, it
• 1:08:04
  might not be Scott like, but it it will follow your instrument
• 1:08:09
  if that makes sense. And you can actually go in there
• 1:08:11
  and play with it as well. OK, I've learned a lot.
• 1:08:16
  Like I I wanted to be an engineer.
• 1:08:18
  I know me too. I've been to.
• 1:08:19
  Like. MCC I have to drop a couple of
• 1:08:21
  courses right now. I actually there's a studio in
• 1:08:26
  the the band I'm with now and we actually record and I actually
• 1:08:29
  mix down all our stuff and I did a master form and they liked it
• 1:08:33
  as much as the Professional 1. So I'm learning how to master
• 1:08:37
  through this band too. So I don't doubt that it's
• 1:08:39
  pretty cool. Had a great year for.
• 1:08:41
  Music. You know I would.
• 1:08:42
  Be silly to say that anybody that I chose to play with was
• 1:08:45
  anything other than a professional.
• 1:08:47
  You know, that would make me look bad.
• 1:08:49
  So take. That with pride too you.
• 1:08:51
  Know, thank you. I mean that.
• 1:08:53
  That's always been my goal to be like, you know, the the major
• 1:08:56
  producers. Well, if you can get me that.
• 1:08:58
  Drum file and your bass along with it.
• 1:09:00
  I'll lay down a guitar part and then, like Chris said, if you
• 1:09:03
  guys wanted, get together at his studio and have Rick lay down
• 1:09:07
  your vocal. I'm done.
• 1:09:09
  I'll be done just like that. There you go.
• 1:09:11
  All I need is a drum. Track and a bass track.
• 1:09:13
  And I'll go from there. OK, so.
• 1:09:17
  Basically give me what you might have already because that way I
• 1:09:21
  need to make sure the timing and all that is correct.
• 1:09:24
  So it's going to be, you know, for you're going to be able to
• 1:09:27
  play. I'll send you some WAV files in
• 1:09:29
  an. E-mail.
• 1:09:30
  Perfect. Just give me a couple.
• 1:09:31
  Days because I. Have all of them.
• 1:09:32
  I'll send you nothing man too. That was a fun.
• 1:09:36
  It's. Not a hurry, you know.
• 1:09:37
  It's when you can. You guys are busy, then you do
• 1:09:40
  what you can. When you can, we all have jobs,
• 1:09:42
  so there's no hurry. It's like Chris said, it's just
• 1:09:44
  cool. We're moving in this direction.
• 1:09:46
  Again, we didn't know what was going to happen with this
• 1:09:48
  podcast and this is what happened.
• 1:09:50
  You know when we're going to keep doing it, it's going to
• 1:09:52
  keep growing. But two years ago, we didn't
• 1:09:55
  know if anybody was going to listen.
• 1:09:56
  So if we're moving forward with music in any direction that
• 1:09:59
  makes me happy, we'll talk to you again, man.
• 1:10:02
  Definitely. Are we?
• 1:10:04
  Going to let him go because. It's it's 425.
• 1:10:06
  So he's Chris. I'm like, that's, that's
• 1:10:08
  William. That's William.
• 1:10:09
  And I remember and remember boys, you're always directing
• 1:10:11
  me, brother. I, I I'll.
• 1:10:13
  Never stop saying that. So just get used to it.
• 1:10:15
  Yeah. William, Richard.
• 1:10:16
  William Richard. Carter 4th And hey, don't let
• 1:10:18
  the bad days win. If you're feeling bad or you're
• 1:10:20
  feeling sad, reach out to somebody.
• 1:10:22
  Don't don't be that person that leaves a hole in somebody's
• 1:10:24
  heart. Somebody does love you.
• 1:10:25
  Somebody will miss you, so, you know, go write something down
• 1:10:28
  South, scream in a pillow, you know, go meditate, whatever it
• 1:10:31
  is you got to do to feel better about yourself today because
• 1:10:33
  tomorrow is a better day. So wake up and smile so much,
• 1:10:36
  man. Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  Love you brothers, you guys are. Awesome.
• 1:10:38
  I love you man. Love you group.
• 1:10:39
  Hug, group hug. Group hug Group hug so great to.
• 1:10:44
  Talk to you again. Definitely all.
• 1:10:47
  Right, all right. See you.
• 1:10:56
  Look the tablet, go insane. Feel the tears.
• 1:11:02
  Open your eyes on your journey. Feel the trail behind your eyes.
• 1:11:15
  Feel yourself and meet yourself. Take a moment, look at you and
• 1:11:24
  see it. Watch your bail on the tears.
• 1:12:49
  Come down here, we haven't found.
• 1:12:59
  Something in the. Sand it's fun fighting.
• 1:13:04
  Wait for the day when it's closer out.
• 1:13:08
  Here. For the wind.
• 1:13:11
  The creature we're playing smile and you should you press on the
• 1:13:16
  almighty day. You gotta dream who in your life
• 1:13:23
  to keep our soul in every day? Take the trail behind your eyes.
• 1:13:32
  Feel the soul evolution now. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:13:43
  yeah. Take a moment.
• 1:13:46
  Look at what you see here. Fight the battle with you more
• 1:13:51
  clear. You gotta, you gotta.
• 1:14:19
  You gotta, you gotta, you gotta.