Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 26 - What Are We Doing Here?

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Ep. 26 - What Are We Doing Here? · Martyr's Row

0:00
On this episode of Martyrs Row, we're talking
0:02
about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Tim Allen
0:05
in the 90s? Santa Claus and cookies? Angels and
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demons? Demons and angels? Tiamat and Leviathan?
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Language and the attributes of God? Are we halfway
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through a year of Martyrs Row? Holy cow! Here
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we go. Episode 26. John Fox, born in the year
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of our Lord 1516 in Boston, Lincolnshire, was
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reared amidst the tumults of the English Reformation.
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While studying at Oxford, he came to reject the
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teachings of the Roman Church and embrace the
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doctrines of the Reformation. For this, he was
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expelled and endured poverty, later fleeing to
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Frankfurt during Queen Mary's persecution of
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Protestants. There, in the exile and affliction,
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he began the work that would become his life's
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great labor. Moved by the courage of the saints
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who had sealed their testimony with blood, Fox
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published Acts and Monuments, later known as
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Fox's Book of Martyrs. To preserve their witness
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for generations to come, he wrote with great
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research and pastoral zeal, not to incite hatred.
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but to kindle faith and fortitude. Its pages
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stirred the hearts of believers across England
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and beyond, teaching that the path of Christ
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may well lead through fire. John Fox died 1587,
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not by the sword, but in peace, having spent
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his strength on behalf of those called to suffer
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for Christ's name. Welcome to Martyrs Row. That's
2:06
right. Paul, it's really fun doing this podcast.
2:11
I've really enjoyed this. Did you know that we
2:14
are halfway through a year? Did you know? This
2:19
is exactly halfway. Yeah, I mean, kind of because
2:22
it's an even number. But wait, isn't it? Yeah,
2:26
because it's 52 weeks in a year. Yeah. Episode
2:29
26. I think I just don't think of five as an
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even number because it's not. It's not. But 50
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is. Yeah, so 25 plus one it's crazy I'm kind
2:42
of you know kind of kind of unique and I don't
2:44
think fives doesn't sound even Just doesn't sound
2:48
if it's in there. I don't think it's even. Oh,
2:50
that's you can't split that in half But yeah,
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I mean you I guess you could as a 50. So yeah,
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so 26 so this is episode 26 of martyrs row Yeah,
3:02
which is weird because it's like no one listening
3:04
is like what's the halfway point? You know what
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I mean? You don't really realize when you're
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listening to a weekly show, you're like, is this
3:12
the beginning, the end, the middle? Where are
3:14
we at? Because 100 episodes feels like... It
3:16
feels like more of a... A milestone. Yeah. So
3:21
maybe we shouldn't have stopped and had a milestone
3:23
episode. It's a milestone for us. It is. I think
3:26
so. Well, I think also because we don't have
3:28
any scheduled breaks. Right. We don't have an
3:31
extended time where it's like, hey, we're not
3:33
publishing anything. That's true. So we have
3:35
to create those markers where we want them. Yeah.
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I love how instead of celebrating 50, we're going
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to celebrate 52. Yeah, actually a good point.
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And then 104. Episode 100, yeah, anyway. So the
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big one is actually four more episodes. Well,
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to be honest, though, I think we're doing where
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it's like, this is the episode we're on. So it
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feels like, man, it feels like so much has changed
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since we started. Yes. So it's one of those things
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where it's like, I think when we get to 50, we
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probably won't wait for 52. Probably not. We'll
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probably just be like, hey, we made it to episode
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50. We're in 50 now. Yeah. And then we'll go
4:09
episode 60, like we're here. Episode 61, we're
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here. No, no, gotta go like by tens. Yeah, true.
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But you know, our intro or our martyr, as far
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as the martyr slot that we normally have, was
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not a martyr. but instead the martyr author himself,
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Mr. John Fox. We've talked about this before.
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I think by the time we stopped doing the individual
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writings from John Fox or Fox's Book of Martyrs,
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we talked about him a little bit and we've kind
4:46
of touched on it some. Because we had a little
4:49
farewell song for him. Oh yeah we did. Oh John,
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no that was a different one. That was Andrew.
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That was Andrew. Andrew. Oh, Andrew. That's still
5:02
one of my favorites. I love that one. That one
5:05
was hard to follow up on. So that means we've
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written 26 songs. That's crazy. That is crazy.
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Now, how many of them were actually worth listening
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to? That's for you to decide. Let us know. Or
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don't. It'll hurt my feelings. But the thing
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is, when you do a weekly show or weekly recording,
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it's like, I mean, you're going to get, who writes
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a song a week and nails it? Yeah. No one. Especially
5:29
because we don't even take a week. That's true.
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That's a good point. We take a few hours. Sometimes
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not even that. It's like, I had an idea on the
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way over. Or sometimes it's like, I don't have
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an idea. Let's write something now. Three, two,
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one. Write. So anyway. Here's our song for the
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week. Anywho. But I just, I wanted to, you know,
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I think we wanted to stop and kind of go like,
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man, we've done, we've kind of hit a lot of topics.
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Yeah. We kind of jumped right into the deep end
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really quickly. So probably if you're listening
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to this episode and this right now, there's a
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good chance you haven't listened to anything
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before this. True. Like that's probably a higher
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chance than you're getting here now having listened
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to 25 episodes. And if you have? Thanks. God
6:16
bless you. God bless you. You really listen to
6:18
all of those. In the name of John Fox, bless
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you. Be blessed. Be blessed. In the name of John
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Fox, be blessed. Well, I think it is cool because,
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and we've mentioned this before, because we're
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no longer reading from his individuals because
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we ran out of those. That's true. Which you've
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said. Yeah. And so I think it is cool before
6:36
too much more time goes on to kind of put him
6:40
in that slot to honor his life a little bit more.
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So it's like, yeah, actually, He was the basis
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for us to kind of continue that tradition as
6:49
we're developing it as we go. Yeah, so after
6:51
this episode, you'll never hear about him again.
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No, he's dead to us. And to everybody else. You
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hear that, John? No, you don't. His memory lives
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on. You know what's funny, though, is like, I'm
7:06
not sure he's a saint of the Catholic Church.
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Well, no. Do you wanna take one guess why? What's
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the word, excommunication? That's the one. He's
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like, I don't like your guys' teachings anymore.
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I don't like you guys. I wanna be a prostitute.
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I'm gonna go hang out with Martin Luther. Alright,
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never come back. I think you know where he is.
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He's got stuff nailed to his doors. I like the
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idea that Martin Luther also nails papers to
7:44
his own door. It's like, this is Martin Luther's
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house. It's actually just his thing. It wasn't
7:48
even weird. I would love to just like, no, that's
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just how I hang stuff. I was just trying to give
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it to you. Glue wasn't invented yet. It's like
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FedEx or something. They just leave a little
7:59
postmark on your door. You know what's funny?
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My brother Mark reminds me of this. quite often,
8:07
often enough. So you know when you're a kid and
8:10
you draw pictures? I do. And you're like proud
8:12
of it and you're like, I want to put this somewhere.
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Yes. But for me, I was like, I don't, this doesn't,
8:16
I don't want this on the fridge. I want this
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to be in my room. Yeah, my boys have done that.
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Yeah, and it's like, it's cool. But you know,
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what's like the typical method you'd use to hang
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a piece of A1 paper to the wall? It's like some
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tape, right? Yeah. Well, I had the idea that
8:35
a nail would be even better. So in my young,
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you know, seven -year -old Martin Luther era.
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Oh, no. I had a crude drawing of Spider -Man
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that I did. And you nailed it to the wall? I
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was nailing it to the wall. So my brother walks
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in, he's like, what are you doing? It's like,
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Mom said I could hang it on my wall. She didn't
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say how to hang it. And I had some ideas. Yikes.
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Oh man, that would be a nightmare. That's when
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I knew I was Protestant. And that's how you knew.
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My fate was sealed. That's awesome. So yeah,
9:17
we wanted to just like stop for a minute and
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kind of talk about all the things we've talked
9:21
about. And not do a highlight episode, but actually
9:23
just kind of go back in and be like, hey Paul,
9:26
what have we talked about? Because what are we
9:29
doing? Yeah, why I think it's it's important
9:33
because again, it's not like a highlight reel.
9:35
Oh, yeah, like a 90s show that ran out of content
9:38
For every other podcast like at the end of the
9:41
year. They're taking a holiday break We're doing
9:44
it halfway. This does we're not even waiting
9:47
at the end of the year. No Well, it's the middle
9:50
of our year. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, the mark
9:52
of our calendar year. Yeah, exactly Well, I think
9:57
it is it is Cool, because we've talked about
9:59
this, the framework that we're kind of building
10:01
for our podcast, Echo Sphere. Right. Echo Sphere?
10:06
Is that the right word? I don't know, but that's
10:07
a t -shirt. Come join the Echo Sphere. Join the
10:11
Echo Sphere? Martyrs Road, join the Echo Sphere.
10:15
Comes with a free bag of nails and a hammer.
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And maybe a Spider -Man drawing. What a merch
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drop would that be? That would be wild. Just
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a whole package. You could probably get in trouble
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for that. What do you mean? Which part? Is there
10:28
some kind of lawsuit waiting to happen? Nails?
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You just mailed people nails and a hammer. Well,
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what happens if you order nails? That's true.
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Although I've never ordered nails. Can you? I
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don't know. I've only ever gone to the store
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to get them. The same. Who goes, I need nails,
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and then places an order on Amazon? If you've
10:54
done that, I wanna know. You let us know about
10:56
that one. That one I'm curious about. Because
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I'm always like, nah, I'm just gonna drive down
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to Ace Hardware. Yeah. Or Lowe's. Nails, please.
11:04
One pack of nails. This episode's sponsored by
11:08
Nails. Nails .com. Nails .com. Worldwideweb .nails
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.com. Backslash Martyrs Row. That would be amazing.
11:20
Websites. Websites .com. Yeah, but no, so there's
11:24
a framework. You were saying an ecosphere, right?
11:27
That has to be a real word. Well, it is now.
11:31
In our ecosphere. Yeah, but there is a framework,
11:34
because in some ways, we have done certain series,
11:37
like we did a myth series, and we kind of did
11:39
it organically, like one thing after the other,
11:41
and it ended up being a series in some ways.
11:44
But the reality is, if you listen to Martyrs
11:48
Row, there is a world that you're stepping into.
11:50
Yeah. You know, we talk about all the time like
11:54
we're saying things that we don't have to continue
11:57
to create definitions for Because we already
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have done that. So if you're if you're watching
12:04
or listening to martyrs row and you're like,
12:05
wait, what is that? Wait Do you really do you
12:09
believe that and like why do you believe that?
12:12
Well, if you go back and listen to the other
12:15
episodes, you'll figure out why Because in some
12:17
ways it's like otherwise every episode we'd have
12:20
to like really unpack stuff So it kind of allows
12:23
us to freely talk, because in some ways it's
12:26
like, well, we've already said why we're saying
12:28
this. We're defining our terms. Yeah, and why
12:31
we're setting certain things up. So in some ways,
12:34
we haven't even really hit a ton of hot topics.
12:40
No. I mean, not like the... The biggest one was
12:43
probably when we went through Enoch. Yeah, but
12:45
we didn't even really talk. We talked about...
12:48
We talked about historical context for the fact
12:53
that Enoch, when Enoch won would have existed,
12:57
where it was found, so bringing validity to the
13:00
fact that it was a common book that would have
13:03
been around during the first and second century.
13:07
Yeah, and then we kind of explored unique topics
13:09
about it, which would have been Hell and Son
13:13
of Man. Right, but we never really said like,
13:17
You should read Enoch one. No, we did it for
13:20
you Yeah, in some ways we didn't talk about the
13:24
controversy. We talked about the yeah interesting
13:26
parts of it Yeah, so definitely go back and listen
13:29
that was really early. That was like within the
13:31
first three Yeah, like within the first ten episodes.
13:34
Yeah, but I think that's um, that's one thing
13:37
that I've appreciated Or I've enjoyed as a challenge
13:41
for myself to how we've gone through them. Yeah
13:45
and it's like let's Let's explore the supernatural
13:49
side of the Bible that we often shy away from
13:52
and show how it's congruent with these other
13:55
things that we're seeing. We talked about near
13:57
-death experiences. And it's like, okay, how
14:00
is that congruent with the Bible? Yeah, so on
14:04
this episode 26, somewhere in between the beginning
14:08
and the end of the year, this is where we find
14:12
ourselves. Yeah, you'll see like if you've been
14:17
watching or if you go back and watch you'll see
14:19
it evolve as we go because we just said let's
14:21
just start and However, it happens it happens.
14:24
Yeah so I'm normally in our song segment We would
14:29
talk about song segments if you've never seen
14:32
this before the next segment is a song segment
14:34
So I figured I would set it up now, right? Yeah,
14:37
because what you're what we're about to snap
14:40
into is a song as it goes and the lyric the lyric
14:46
content of that song is actually all of our past
14:50
episode one through 25 titles dropped into lyrics.
15:00
So in this next segment, the song lyrics are
15:02
actually the titles of all of the episodes spread
15:08
out through all of the lyrics. So, it's actually
15:11
kind of cool. It's kind of fun. It's pretty fun.
15:13
It's fun. So, ready for that? I'm ready. Listen
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to the song. Three, two, one. Or slave -owning
15:41
script? Are trees portals? Or just roots and
15:46
bark? Shadows in Eden still leaving a mark Still
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leaving a mark Hebrew knowledge Myths we scroll,
16:10
tales passed down, Edged deep in our souls. What
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are you babbling on about? They say, but the
16:21
questions won't die, They just echo and stay.
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They echo and stay. Welcome to Mortar's Row Where
16:40
the questions bloom and the secrets grow Did
16:46
you myth me? I'm not alone Did you myth me? I'm
16:53
not alone Marching through the fire just to make
17:02
truth known is the son of man I need to know.
17:10
To him I, to him I commit my soul on martyr's
17:20
row, on martyr's row. The myth of the rainbow,
17:32
promise or flair? Was T .M .R. Leviathan rising
17:39
from prayer? Could he speak snake? Did you know
17:45
the plot? Satan's lees sign the name on that
17:52
day. Was Nimrod a Freemason? Stacking the sky,
18:07
which angels fall? Which ones are gonna fly?
18:13
Was Paul excommunicated or cast aside? Or Enoch's
18:20
ink still bleeds from demons The demons who lie
18:32
Are myths historical or warnings disguised? Why
18:39
is God cruel in the Old Testament's eyes? Why
18:45
do we fear the return of the King? With fire
18:52
in His eyes, here comes the reckoning With fire
19:04
in his eyes, here comes a reckoning Welcome to
19:11
mortar's row The questions burn and the brave,
19:17
they still go Did you miss me? I know Paul, I
20:07
have a question for you. For me? I love jumping
20:10
straight into questions. Yeah. It gets the conversation
20:12
going. I was about to tangent on the fact, get
20:15
better with like, yeah, this is why we love jumping
20:18
in, which would have done what we've always done.
20:21
Right. Which is what this podcast is. Yeah. It's
20:24
a podcast inside of a podcast inside of a podcast.
20:27
It's true. It's the ecosphere. We like to comment
20:30
on the fact of what we're going to. which then
20:33
defeats the purpose of what we were trying to
20:35
do. We like to walk people into a cave and then
20:37
talk about the fact that we're in a cave. It's
20:41
fun being in caves. Why not talk about how fun
20:43
it is doing the thing that you're doing? I love
20:46
it. So Paul, that brings me to my question. Are
20:49
you ready? Yes. I'm holding everything back.
20:52
Here's my question. Existence, what are we doing
20:55
here? Simple enough. It reminds me of the age
21:05
-old question the age -old question Have you
21:08
ever seen the movie or read the books or watch
21:11
the show Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? I
21:13
saw the movie with Tim Allen The Santa Claus
21:17
Santa Claus Do you know he was an occult leader?
21:21
Santa Claus? We did an episode about that. Oh,
21:24
yeah, you're right Go back and watch that. Go
21:27
back, you get to watch. Steven Unhinged. What
21:30
was that one called? Oh, yeah. I really went
21:33
in on that one. That was fun. Nicolaitans. Yeah,
21:35
that was fun. What was it? Was St. Nicholas a
21:38
cult leader? I think that's right. Something
21:41
like that. Yeah, Doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
21:45
But so it was... Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
21:48
Oh, Martin Freeman, that's his name. Okay. Yeah,
21:51
which honestly was the worst take on it in my
21:53
opinion. The movie. The movie was like the worst.
21:55
Yeah, I mean anything in the 90s with Tim Allen.
22:00
You keep going back to Tim Allen. I mean the
22:03
thing is is like. I'm talking about Hitchhiker's
22:05
Guide, not the Santa Claus. I know, but like
22:08
to be fair though the Santa Claus is one of those
22:10
movies that like I know it like the back of my
22:13
hand. Oh, I like that movie. I do too. Yeah,
22:15
I love it. Yeah, I mean if you've never seen
22:17
it. Watch it. I mean maybe wait at least until
22:21
Christmas. Yeah, of course But uh, no tim allen.
22:25
Yeah, I mean if you'd actually um, because it
22:28
didn't was it two years ago They released like
22:30
a new one Uh, it was a uh, like a special it
22:34
was a disney plus like series limited series
22:37
Yeah, and you know, we got a shout out Not us
22:40
personally. What are you talking about the city?
22:42
We live in no way as he's reading through like
22:45
the list of people and where they live Yeah,
22:47
he mentions lakeland florida What? I was like,
22:49
that's awesome. You just exposed where we are.
22:51
Uh -oh. Don't come and find us. Or do, and bring
22:55
snacks. Actually, that'd be cool. Yeah. I do
22:58
office hours. Particularly gushers. Yeah. So
23:02
existence, why are we here? Yeah. What are we
23:05
doing here? So Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
23:06
Yeah, love it. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
23:10
So one of the themes throughout it is they're
23:14
trying to figure out like, what's the answer
23:16
to life, the universe, and everything? And so
23:20
they go to the smartest computer in the universe
23:23
called Deep Thought, and they ask it that question.
23:26
Isn't it like on the dark side of the moon or
23:27
something? Yeah, it's like this crazy machine
23:30
that's like, it can calculate anything, and it's
23:33
like, hmm, that's a hard one. It's like, give
23:35
me, I can't remember how many, like X amount
23:37
of years. It was like such a long time. So everyone's
23:41
just waiting. They're like, oh man, we have to
23:43
wait for this. to finally answer why we're here.
23:47
But it's like generations. So finally it's done
23:50
computing the question. And they come to it and
23:53
they say, all right, what's the answer? Life,
23:56
the universe, and everything. And it says the
23:58
answer is 42. Oh yeah. I love that. But here's
24:09
what I find. Interesting about that. Yeah into
24:13
your question. Okay is We don't often know what
24:17
we're even asking. That's a good point and so
24:20
it's like and that was part of the point with
24:21
With the book. It's like you're asking this question,
24:24
you know what the question is that you're asking.
24:26
So when you get an answer What is it actually
24:29
answering if you didn't even know the question
24:31
to begin with Wow, and so What what does that
24:35
have to do with us and the question you asked
24:37
me? I'm glad you asked I am asking. Yes. Existence.
24:44
What are we doing here? 42. And so when we have
24:48
these very like obscure abstract things, it's
24:54
easy for us to be led in an unideal direction.
24:58
Okay. And the problem is there are things out
25:01
there that want to lead us in unideal directions.
25:05
Oh yeah, that's true. And so what that has...
25:09
What the track you've kind of put me on here
25:11
a little bit. Okay is our concept of angels and
25:14
demons. Oh, okay And what I find look out Oh
25:20
my What I find interesting is in a lot of it
25:24
has to do with tradition Yeah is and we've talked
25:27
about this a lot in different ways on the podcast
25:30
before sure which you can see from our previous
25:32
25 episodes Yes, you can is our terminology is
25:37
a little bit shaky. And so a lot of times when
25:40
we're talking about these things, we don't actually
25:42
even know what we're talking about. Yeah, I get
25:44
that. I see what you're saying. Yeah, so it's
25:45
like when we say angels, it's like, oh yeah,
25:48
God has his angels. And it's like, that's true.
25:50
Yeah. So then we also read cherubim and seraphim.
25:54
It's like, well, what are they? Right. It's like,
25:56
well, they're angels too. Yeah. And it's like,
25:58
are they? Like, what does that mean? And so what's
26:01
interesting is because of this tradition, we've
26:04
kind of lost track with the terminology that
26:07
the Bible lays out for us. And one of them, it's
26:09
not telling us what these things are, but it's
26:12
telling us what they do. And so for all these
26:16
creatures, so let's say angels, it's like, well,
26:18
that's a thing that delivers a message from God.
26:22
And it's like, oh, that's all it is. It's a job
26:24
description. And the same thing with a cherubim.
26:27
It's like, oh, they're a throne guardian. It's
26:30
like, that's what they are. It's like, so when
26:32
we get these ideas of like, oh, angels have wings.
26:35
It's like, where does it say that? Right. And
26:38
we have like, oh, because of Ezekiel. And it's
26:40
like, that's not talking about angels. Right.
26:43
Because angels isn't that thing. That thing's
26:45
a throne guardian. Yes. Yeah. Well, and that's
26:49
a good point. It's like, I mean, to really, really
26:52
oversimplify it. Yeah. It's a little bit like
26:54
if you're trying to talk to someone about the
26:57
details of football and you've only ever watched
26:59
it. you've never actually played it, right? Or
27:03
you're reading, let's say you're reading a guide
27:06
about like how to play football, but you've never
27:10
actually watched football or played it. It's
27:13
like there's only a certain amount of depth that
27:15
you can talk about something. And a lot of times,
27:18
a lot of times from a, like whether you're Christian
27:22
or you're not Christian, if you believe in God
27:25
or you don't believe in God, like whatever that
27:28
is, Most of the time we're not even reading a
27:32
manual. Yeah, or we're not even We don't even
27:36
have firsthand knowledge that we've acquired
27:38
ourselves from from doing it from Experiencing
27:41
it or from reading about it most of the time
27:45
most of what we know is From someone else who's
27:48
done research telling us highlights. That's true
27:51
Yeah, so the funny thing about that is like whether
27:54
you go to church and you hear from a pastor and
27:56
you're and they tell you something like again,
28:00
bringing up the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
28:02
It's like they tell you that the doctrine is
28:04
this. But if you never actually go and look at
28:07
it and go, well, wait a minute, it doesn't actually
28:10
say that. It actually says this, but you've attached
28:13
it to that. Yeah, like that might be part of
28:15
it, but that's conflated, and it actually links
28:18
more to this. And there's something bigger going
28:21
on here. Well, if you haven't done the research
28:24
firsthand, The reality is most of the stuff,
28:27
I mean it happens all the time with like in comment
28:29
sections and things like that. It's like people
28:32
are just like, well this person has no idea what
28:33
they're talking about. But all they saw was the
28:36
title of the thumbnail or they just listened
28:39
to the first five seconds. And it's like, wait,
28:42
you didn't even stop to listen to the whole context
28:44
or know where it came from. And so you're just
28:47
automatically talking about something. So yeah,
28:50
it's like Christians are like, yeah I know what
28:52
angels and demons are. It's like, but do you?
28:55
Like do you actually know the context of what
29:00
throughout church history for the last couple
29:03
of thousands of years and then even before then
29:07
like what did they think it was? Like maybe start
29:10
there versus like even like what you're saying
29:13
even the idea that like an angel as a messenger
29:18
well it's like does it actually say messenger?
29:22
And like technically it does if you read it in
29:25
Greek or Hebrew. But we're not reading it in
29:28
Greek or Hebrew. So like, and most of the time
29:31
you're not even reading it. You're just hearing
29:34
a pastor, a leader or speaker, somebody talk
29:37
about it. And you're like, all right, well, what
29:39
did they do? You use some critical thinking and
29:42
you're like, well, they delivered a message.
29:44
So there must be a messenger. It's like, okay,
29:47
but are they Cupid? Are they like trying to make
29:49
you fall in love with somebody? Are they just
29:52
like delivering a message from God? You know,
29:54
it's like there are all these things that we
29:56
just assume that absolutely Yeah, absolutely.
29:59
And that's kind of what you're talking about.
30:00
It's like we really think we know that's like
30:03
the whole like like Happy Gilmore to you is is
30:11
a thing this year And it's it's it's it's Happy
30:19
Gilmore is wonderful, but It just makes me think
30:24
of Adam Sandler and then goes to like the water
30:26
boy and like the water boys mom was like everything
30:30
is the devil Yeah, yeah, and there is the aspect
30:33
of like everything's a demon. It's like aliens.
30:37
They're all demons It's like anything that is
30:39
against you. It's a demon. Yeah, and it's like
30:42
okay The problem is is Actually, I would say
30:48
the bigger problem with that is all the people
30:51
that go, well, it can't all be demons. Therefore,
30:55
none of it's demons. Yeah, because you've done
30:57
the same thing in the opposite direction. Exactly.
30:59
Yeah. And so I think that's what most people
31:01
do. Yeah, absolutely. They look at Bobby Boucher's
31:04
mom and they go, well, nothing is the devil,
31:06
right? Because to her, everything is the devil.
31:09
Yeah. It's like, well, no, what is the devil?
31:11
Something is. And then let's pay attention to
31:14
that. And then, yeah, just because we've called
31:16
everything the devil. Now, is it a little safer
31:19
to just assume everything is the devil? Sometimes.
31:24
Sure, I guess. I mean, it kept Bobby Boucher
31:28
safe for a long time. Well, I love the idea,
31:33
too. I'm actually gonna, I'm stealing this from
31:35
a friend of mine who said this, and I thought
31:37
it was hilarious. But also very profound at the
31:39
same time. I like to laugh. Yeah, me too. And
31:41
think. Two of my favorite things in one? You're
31:47
gonna love this. But one of the things, so we
31:51
were talking about the idea of demons and the
31:55
people that are like, oh, yep, devil's waiting
31:57
for me. You know, I walked into church and he
32:00
jumped out of the cabinet. You know, and it's
32:02
like, oh, so he's like, he's just. In need of
32:04
the cupboard? He's just like waiting all week
32:09
and he's like. Finally, they're here. Now it's
32:12
my time to shine. And it's like, okay, let's
32:15
stop and think about it for a second. And it's
32:17
like, and these are - You're not that important.
32:19
These are made of, well, that's what we're getting
32:20
at. But also it's like, let's just, we're gonna
32:24
make up some numbers real quick. And it's like,
32:26
okay, how many demons are there, do you think?
32:30
For example, what if there's 200? There's probably
32:33
more than that. But it's like, okay, let's just
32:35
say for the sake of argument, or there's 2 ,000.
32:39
20 ,000. There are over six billion people in
32:43
this world. So you're saying one of the, actually
32:48
that is the reason I've just heard. I stick with
32:49
the six, that's what I know, it's habit. It honestly
32:52
could be one billion. Who actually knows? Who
32:56
actually knows? If you're a person out there
32:58
that has counted everybody on the earth. One.
33:01
Cause here's the thing, again. Well again, that's
33:05
like that's one of those things where like who
33:06
told you that there was eight billion people?
33:09
Yeah, that's true. Just someone told you someone
33:11
was like, yeah sounds right It's like someone
33:12
also told you that Pluto is a planet and then
33:14
they decided they didn't want to tell you that
33:16
so rude Well, but that's the thing is like What
33:19
knowledge do you actually have of this information?
33:22
Yeah, nothing. Someone just told you there's
33:24
eight billion people. So now there's eight billion
33:25
people Well, so that's kind of where I'm getting
33:27
at here with this same. It's the same thought
33:29
I'm trying to help just put on a different a
33:31
different flavor, but it's like, okay Yeah, so
33:33
it's like let's just say there's you know, it's
33:36
like they're just sitting around waiting for
33:37
you It's like there's so many more people. Yeah,
33:41
I doubt they're waiting for you specifically
33:43
Maybe they are maybe they're not who's to really
33:46
say yeah, so it's kind of that it's like Maybe
33:48
it is devil, maybe it's not. But are you making
33:50
good choices? Right. And so it's like, we've
33:53
got to look a little more inward than sometimes.
33:55
But I lost my whole point here. Sorry. Where's
33:59
the direction I was headed? Indian in the cupboard.
34:03
Indian in the cupboard. Yes, got me. Satan in
34:06
the church cabinet. He's waiting for you. He's
34:09
waiting. He's, yeah, around the corner. I actually
34:11
totally lost it. He sees you when you're sleeping.
34:14
He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've
34:17
been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.
34:21
But it's like, yeah, we gotta think about - You
34:24
better watch out. Better not cry. Wait, I can't
34:28
cry? Parts of it are coming back to me somehow.
34:31
Better not pout, I'm telling you why. Why? Santa
34:33
Claus is coming to do something? I don't know.
34:38
The leader of the Nicolaitans is coming. Santa
34:45
Claus? The devil? Oh wait, I already asked a
34:50
question. Anyway, actually, we kind of already
34:53
asked that one. Yeah, we did, actually. Yeah,
34:55
good point. In like four or five different ways.
34:59
Yeah, true. But yeah, so your point is individually,
35:03
we're not that important. Probably. But collectively,
35:07
we're pretty important. Also, we're all very
35:09
important. Yeah, that's true. And so I think
35:11
it's like we have to have these... Realistic
35:13
ideas because even like you're saying it's like
35:14
well, how do we know that? It's like did someone
35:16
just say that we just believed it right because
35:18
it's the same idea of I'm just gonna throw this
35:22
out do it because it's fun. I can do that. Yeah,
35:25
we're 26 episodes Where it's like someone's like,
35:29
okay, like who are who are the demons? It's like,
35:31
oh, well, those are those are Satan's minions
35:33
and it's like, okay So the devil is grew. Where
35:37
did that come from? Yeah You know, I mean, it's
35:39
like it's in the Bible can you show me where
35:41
it's in the bible and it's not to say that's
35:44
not true they're like i have it i have it on
35:46
a sign above my toilet that i bought from hobby
35:49
lobby oh well then it has to be right why didn't
35:52
you say that to begin with start there next time
35:54
i start every morning by stopping by hobby lobby
35:57
when it opens at 10 a .m what do you have for
35:59
me and i walk down the aisles and i get my spiritual
36:02
knowledge i love that it's so comfy i just put
36:07
blankets around me but it's like it goes into
36:09
one of my One of my favorite questions I ask
36:12
people, because sometimes I like to be a jerk,
36:15
but in a nice way. At least you admit it. I do.
36:20
Yeah, it's a trick I play sometimes. You little
36:24
trickster. But I do it out of love. So one of
36:30
them I love talking about with wisdom, because
36:32
I love the wisdom books in the Bible. And so
36:36
I ask people, it's like, oh, what is wisdom?
36:39
What is the fear of God? I'll start with the
36:41
first one, because I can't answer it. But it's
36:42
like, what is wisdom? And some will be like,
36:45
oh, I think it's this x, y, z, blah, blah, blah.
36:47
And it's like, OK, cool. What does the Bible
36:49
say it is? Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's
36:51
like, what? Yeah. And so I think that's when
36:55
we talk about anything. It's easy when we're
36:57
looking at angels and demons, because that's
36:58
a big one. But it's like anything, someone's
37:00
like, oh, well, it's this. It's like, OK, do
37:03
you think that, or is that what the Bible says?
37:05
Right. And is that a metric you have? Right.
37:08
Like that's the other thing is like sometimes
37:10
all of your, let's say all of your morality or
37:13
maybe the scales by which you're living your
37:16
life, maybe those aren't actually founded by
37:19
what you say that you live your life against.
37:22
Yeah. Meaning like, let's say you have 12 principles
37:26
of your life. like you're Jordan Peterson for
37:29
some reason. Or you're John Maxwell or Jordan
37:34
Peterson, like one of those people. And you have
37:37
these 16 principles to your life. It's like whatever
37:40
those are, it's like are they all backing up
37:42
against something? Like what's the ultimate truth
37:45
that it's backing up against? And we've talked
37:47
about that, like that was one of your phrases
37:49
is truth is truth is truth. Yeah, which I've
37:51
actually altered slightly recently. Oh, do it.
37:54
Yeah. What is it? Well, so the way I've been
37:57
thinking about that is, which I still agree with
38:00
that statement. Yeah. But I'm like, I think it
38:02
can be misleading sometimes. Sure. Because I'll
38:05
even I'll I often attach with that like being
38:08
a truth seeker. OK. But as I overthink words
38:12
too much. Yeah. And you're the same boat. Yeah.
38:15
Is like, oh, if you're seeking something, it's
38:17
like you already have an idea of what it looks
38:18
like. And so you're looking for that thing. and
38:21
not necessarily what's in front of you. Which
38:23
is very dangerous. Yes. And I was like, oh, you
38:26
know what? That's actually not a good mentality
38:28
to bring. True. And so I've actually switched
38:30
it a little bit to let's be curious about truth
38:33
or curious about things. Yeah. And it's like,
38:37
instead of being like, OK, this is what truth
38:40
is, so let me go find it in the Bible. It's like,
38:42
no, let me go see what the Bible says and I'll
38:45
find out what's true. Yeah. Yeah. You're messing
38:50
me up right now. Cause Matthew 7, 7 says ask
38:56
and it will be given to you seek and you will
38:58
find knock and the door will be open to you.
39:00
For everyone who asks receives the one who seeks
39:03
finds until one who knocks the door will be opened.
39:08
You're making me realize that like there's an
39:13
element to that that is true regardless of what
39:17
door you're knocking on. So like the reality
39:20
is like one of the things that we've been talking
39:21
about and one of the things that we've been kind
39:25
of warning of and or exposing is the idea that
39:28
like If you open yourself up or if you knock
39:33
on a door that you shouldn't knock on and that
39:35
door opens Yeah, you've just opened yourself
39:37
up to something. You should have never opened
39:39
yourself up. Yeah, absolutely And if you seek
39:41
you'll probably find what you're looking for,
39:44
right? Still find what you're looking for. You
39:49
too? Albano. I think with that, it helps to put
39:53
more parameters by what I'm saying, because I
39:54
think what I just said can also be taken as a
39:57
new age idea. It can. Which is not what I'm meaning.
40:00
Yeah, but to be fair, that leads me into a worldview
40:06
that I feel like over the course of this podcast
40:09
has really helped me shape this image. because
40:14
of that, because here's the truth. Where there
40:18
is truth, there is deception. Deception is not
40:25
necessarily the opposite of truth. It's just
40:28
a redirecting of truth. I actually wouldn't say
40:31
there's true and false. I don't know that there's
40:36
truth and then falsehood. Do you know what I
40:39
mean? Because falsehood doesn't exist without
40:42
truth. Truth can exist by itself. So that's actually
40:46
something that we really, as Christians, need
40:52
to understand. Is that there's not a duality
40:58
to things. There's not a yin and a yang. There
41:03
is order, but there's not a yin and a yang. Because
41:09
there's not true and false. There's truth. Then
41:13
there's false truth. Yeah, but the false or the
41:17
deception doesn't exist unless the truth is real
41:20
Yeah, and so everything that's where like your
41:23
truth is truth is truth Like the idea of that
41:26
of like uncovering the diamond. Yeah makes sense
41:30
Yeah, but but the phrase needs context. It does
41:33
however The the reality is is like one of the
41:38
things that that's really helped me is just the
41:41
simple idea that the Bible was not the first
41:45
idea. And what I mean by that is, when the Bible
41:50
was written down, it was not the first idea.
41:55
It was not the first thing written down. It was
41:58
also not the first myth. It was not the first
42:01
story, and it was not the first parable. It was
42:05
not the first any of those things. And it doesn't
42:09
claim to be. Right. The Bible doesn't claim to
42:12
be the first. It claims to be the right. Correct.
42:16
Yeah. Now it does claim to be the Word, which
42:19
is living and active, but the Word, John 1, Genesis
42:24
1, is Jesus. So the Word is actually Jesus. The
42:31
Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word
42:35
brought order. to chaos. Everything was done
42:39
for him, by him, and through him. It's all Jesus.
42:42
So the words of the Bible are the word given
42:47
to us. It's not Jesus, but the word itself, the
42:53
words of the scripture are living and breathing
42:56
and active. Not because they change or evolve
42:59
or reshape or whatever, but it's because that's
43:04
the tangible description of who Jesus is in somewhat
43:11
of a two, sometimes three -dimensional viewpoint,
43:15
right? So that's one of the things I feel like
43:17
that's helped me a lot in the podcast is the
43:19
idea that I always just think of like, okay,
43:23
the beginning of time happened, then the Bible,
43:25
and then everything else. But there's already
43:27
been a bunch of people who are like, Well, yeah,
43:31
well, Noah and the flood and the ark, there was
43:34
a way older myth about that out of Mesopotamia,
43:38
and I'm like, I know. Yes. And you know who else
43:43
knows? Yahweh, when he gave the words to Moses
43:47
in Genesis 1, go back and listen to our episodes
43:50
on his Tiamat Leviathan. Yeah, yeah. Because
43:55
we talked, Paul explained. in a great way, the
43:59
idea that Genesis 1 is actually intentionally
44:03
poking at other gods. It's using specific language
44:08
that's poking at other gods. So one of the things
44:11
that's really helped me is this idea that if
44:14
you just go like, hey, what is the Bible? What
44:16
is the Bible itself? To point back to that question
44:21
of why are we here? Well, the Bible is basically
44:27
It's Jesus showing up on the scene going. Hey,
44:31
there's all that you guys have is all a deception
44:34
of the truth Everything that you have is a deception
44:38
of the truth. Here's the truth. Yeah, so the
44:41
Bible is going hey this Everything that you're
44:45
looking at is all chaos. It's a bunch of myths
44:49
that are a deception of the actual true myth.
44:52
The actual true story. And we go into that. Myth
44:55
is what? It's historical blended with supernatural
44:59
events. So if you take the supernatural events
45:03
out of it, it's just history. But then it's bad
45:07
history. Right. Because it's misplacing... Actual
45:11
events that are supernatural. Yeah, absolutely,
45:14
which every good narrative has a supernatural
45:17
element, but also Every truth has a supernatural
45:21
element and that's something that we tend to
45:24
want to ignore Yeah, and I think it makes some
45:27
things. I mean going along that line. It's like
45:29
it makes some things Harder when they shouldn't
45:31
be hard to explain. Yeah, absolutely. So like
45:34
One of them that was always confusing to me when
45:36
I was younger was like the code of Hammurabi.
45:39
Okay, and it's like Wait, this is very similar
45:43
to the Ten Commandments. True. But it was way
45:46
before the Ten Commandments. Yeah. Historically.
45:48
Yeah. So how does that make sense? Sure. And
45:51
it's like, actually, it's not that hard to understand
45:53
if you take myth into account. Yeah. It's like,
45:58
if you just look at what they're saying, it's
45:59
like, well, it's not like we didn't have... Ten
46:05
Commandments, you know before they were actually
46:08
given in stone. Mm -hmm. It's like no they were
46:11
just understood by everybody Yeah, but what happened
46:13
in and then is we see it through myth. It's like,
46:16
oh well other gods came in and said actually
46:19
Yeah, let me just change that a little bit right
46:22
and then Yahweh comes on and goes Okay Let me
46:27
just give it to you straight. Yeah, this is what
46:29
I said. Yeah, this is what the commandments actually
46:32
are Yeah, and then he has to come down thousands
46:35
of years later and go, oh my gosh, this is what
46:39
I meant. Yeah. Well, and you see that through
46:43
Genesis. So you see that often through the book
46:46
of Genesis. The 50 chapters of Genesis is a long
46:50
period of time. In fact, in some ways, it's not
46:56
measurable. That's a whole different episode
46:59
that we haven't done yet, but we absolutely should.
47:03
I would like to do one about the attributes,
47:07
which would be a long series. The attributes?
47:10
Attributes of God. Oh, I was talking about how
47:12
old is the earth. Oh, that would be a fun one
47:15
too. I'd love that. I think they'd both be great.
47:20
That's what I've been preparing for. Potentially,
47:24
the book of Genesis is, if you start at Genesis
47:29
50 and then make your way back, eventually, I
47:34
would argue that you lose track of time, that
47:36
there is no timeline at a certain point. Eventually
47:41
it just falls into before time. But that's a
47:46
whole different episode. Which we'll definitely
47:49
get into. We will, yeah. Because that would actually
47:52
take us an hour. But if you look at Genesis all
47:57
the way through it, it's like you have these
47:59
checkpoints where it's like, and then... there
48:02
were these people, this pocket of people who
48:05
turned and worshiped the Lord. So it was almost
48:07
like this happens, like the world is created,
48:12
man is created. Genesis 3 the separation and
48:16
then you have Genesis 6 and corruption on the
48:20
earth in a way that is outside the means of humanity
48:24
itself and then you have the flood narrative
48:27
and then you have Tower of Babel and then you
48:29
have like you have all of these things happening
48:31
Genesis 12 Abraham shows up like you start to
48:34
have all these and then it's like but there was
48:36
always pockets of like and then this person had
48:41
a heart after God. This person had a heart after
48:43
God. And every time it does that, it's like all
48:46
of a sudden there's truth knowledge given. There's
48:49
pockets of like, oh here's actually like this
48:52
person prospered in a way that was completely
48:54
different than everybody else. Or like Enoch
48:58
seven from Adam was taken up and was no more
49:02
and apparently didn't die, which is fascinating.
49:08
He like as you, which I feel like maybe is why
49:12
the language of like first born among the dead
49:16
when talking about Jesus' resurrection is important
49:18
because you have Enoch and you have Elijah that
49:22
didn't die. So first born among the dead is an
49:26
interesting, important phrase. Anyways, so when
49:30
you look at that, it's like okay, so what happens
49:33
is there's all this explanation of like, well,
49:37
Yahweh is not delivering truth to humanity because
49:40
humanity is not seeking truth. They're seeking
49:45
their own means. What they're seeking is what
49:49
they desire. And so what they're finding is deception.
49:55
But I think and that's where I think even with
49:57
the idea of seeking it's like we need to have
49:59
parameters. Yeah. Because it's like It's easy.
50:02
I think it's easy to be like, oh everyone is
50:05
seeking just their own fleshly desire Which is
50:07
like that is true, but do they all know that
50:10
sure and it's like I think for some people and
50:13
You can look at you even other religions like
50:15
there's a lot of people with a lot of zeal for
50:17
what they are taught Yeah, it's like we look
50:20
at it as Christians like oh, but that's not the
50:21
truth, right? But they think it is and they're
50:24
pursuing it in Like the same amount of zeal that
50:27
I that we're pursuing Christianity. Yeah Pursuing
50:30
Christ and it's like but the difference is like
50:32
there's they're seeking what they believe to
50:34
be true. So it's like, okay, so Now we've got
50:38
to ask the question. What is true? Yeah, and
50:40
it's like so where does that come? It's like
50:42
where are those parameters sure because if you're
50:44
if you have this preconceived idea of what it
50:46
is You're gonna find whatever your preconceived
50:49
idea is. Yes somewhere. You got to force it sometimes
50:51
right or do you and I for me it's like I find
50:56
with Christianity, it's like, I actually don't
50:58
have to do any forcing if I just let the data
51:01
speak for itself, let the event, the experience
51:03
speak for itself. Well, and that's the idea of
51:07
fruit. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so it's like,
51:09
I mean, taking another word, which is love, let's
51:12
take that, because that's a big one. Yeah. And
51:14
it's like, oh, well, God is love. That's awesome.
51:17
And it's true. Yeah. What is love? Right. And
51:21
so if you just believe, oh, it's this warm, fuzzy
51:23
feeling, you're gonna find that from demons.
51:26
Absolutely. Okay, it's like, when we have this
51:29
idea, again, that goes to other preconceived
51:31
notions. When we believe demons are these gross,
51:33
ugly things, first off, where'd you get that?
51:36
The Bible says quite the opposite most of the
51:38
time. And so it's like, okay, so if something
51:41
that's not good can make you feel nice, does
51:45
that mean it's loving? No. Okay, then what is
51:48
love? And how do I find what it actually is?
51:58
It's like it's it's this constant like having
52:01
to break down our own ideas and replacing them
52:04
with like the truth like what is actually it
52:07
well and like you were just like talking about
52:10
like attributes of God and like wanting to go
52:12
into all that and There's actually a really simple
52:15
like there's a there's a simple thing to say
52:17
that is extremely dense and complicated Just
52:21
the idea that like, if you say, what is love?
52:24
Yeah. I would say anything that God does. Yeah.
52:28
So like God is love. Like that statement is a
52:33
biblical statement. Yes. God is love. Yeah. Okay.
52:37
So it's not something, it's not just even simplified
52:42
to anything that God does. It's actually who
52:46
he is. Yeah. So if God is love, then that means
52:51
that apart from God, love does not exist. So
52:57
that means that there are deceptions of love.
53:01
So if you're just seeking what you think is love,
53:05
what you might find is deception on the grounds
53:10
of like comfort or lust or any of these things.
53:13
And I say comfort because lust is more of like
53:17
sin language, but comfort, It could also be a
53:21
massive sin and falling away in your life because
53:24
if you're sinking comfort as a personification
53:29
of what love is, then you can find comfort in
53:34
evil things and demonic things and that can be
53:38
offered. But love cannot be offered because love
53:41
can only come from God because God is love. So
53:46
it's this simple idea. That's the same thing
53:50
with good. Love and good, those two things are
53:55
God. In other words, the love that I have for
54:01
somebody else, so the love that I have for you,
54:04
it actually doesn't originate with me. It only
54:07
originates through my relationship with God,
54:11
giving me the ability to pass Himself through
54:14
me to someone else. So I can express God's love
54:20
to you. What I might say is I can express love
54:23
to you, but all I'm doing is actually I'm expressing
54:26
God to you, which is synonymous. Now I can express
54:31
lust to you, and that's a whole different thing.
54:35
But if I'm expressing actual love to you, then
54:38
I'm expressing something to you that's not mine.
54:42
I'm being used to pass it to you. So when someone
54:46
loves you, and they genuinely love you, then
54:50
the presence of God exists in that relationship.
54:53
Because what they're being allowed to do is pass
54:57
God's acknowledgement of who you are and who
55:00
He is onto you. Yeah. And that actually goes
55:03
back to, you know, Majo De idea. It's like we're
55:07
His earthly representatives. Yeah, image of God.
55:11
Yeah. You had to use the Latin. I did, of course.
55:15
I studied it in high school, I gotta use the
55:17
noun. And it's like, yeah, he created us to represent
55:23
him on earth. And so we have the ability to represent
55:29
him, which is exactly what you're saying, by
55:30
reflecting that love towards somebody. Those
55:33
similar attributes, it's like we can reflect
55:36
a fraction of that towards someone else because
55:39
we're supposed to be representing him in everything
55:41
that we do. And I think it's important to say,
55:46
not that you gave this idea, but I just feel
55:49
like it's important to say in this conversation,
55:51
because I've heard it so many times, especially
55:53
when talking about attributes of God, that it's
55:55
like, oh yeah, like here are the attributes and
55:58
God's here, he's gotta do those things. And it's
56:00
like, that's why I like the way you said it,
56:02
it's like, no, that's who he is. Like those things
56:05
are him. It's not like, Oh, God is logical, which
56:10
means that he has to abide by the laws of logic.
56:12
It's like, no, he's actually beyond logic. Logic
56:15
has to abide by what he does, because everything
56:18
he does is logical. Not because it has to be,
56:21
it's just because that's just who he is. Yeah,
56:24
in the same way that in a parallel concept, we
56:30
do need to do an episode on when is heaven. I
56:35
like that. So yeah I think like I think there
56:41
are some of these concepts we have a shared note
56:43
where there's just like titles and ideas because
56:47
it is that idea it's like and I love that most
56:50
the time for episodes we don't actually use it
56:53
yeah that's a good point so it's like we have
56:55
probably 50 points in there now? Yeah, but it
56:58
sparks Converse. It sparks the topic. It does.
57:00
And then it sparks a new idea that becomes the
57:03
topic. Right, right, right. And it's like, we
57:05
have like, we've used some of them. We need to
57:07
clean it out. For sure. Yeah. We've used most
57:09
of them. But that's what I love about it. Yeah.
57:12
We've used a good amount. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But
57:14
that's what I love about it. It's like, there
57:15
are so many things to talk about. Yeah. To the
57:17
point where it's the things we want to talk about
57:20
are creating new things to talk about. Yes. And
57:23
I love that. And that's kind of the whole thing,
57:25
is like, the truth is, is like, we would love
57:28
for you to listen to this podcast and to follow
57:30
along. But the main thing is, like, almost would
57:33
love to have a dialogue with you versus you just
57:37
listening. I mean, listen, but dialogue as well,
57:41
because the truth is, is like, don't just listen
57:43
even to what we're saying and be like, oh, this
57:46
is something that now I have knowledge of. It's
57:49
like, well, make sure that you double check what
57:51
we said. Don't just do what we talked against.
57:55
Right, in the context of which we talked about
57:59
it. There's all those things, but yeah, I love
58:03
that idea of, and I need to dig into it, of when
58:08
is heaven. It's a cool idea. The idea that, because
58:13
we know... the heavens and the earth will pass
58:19
away. There will be a new heavens and a new earth.
58:22
But does that currently exist now? So the idea
58:25
of if you are a saint, a disciple, if you are
58:31
a Christ follower and you die on the earth, you
58:37
don't receive a resurrected body. but when you
58:47
die, do you then step out of current time and
58:52
then enter into the eternal, where the new heavens
58:57
and the new earth already are in existence, and
59:00
then your resurrected body is somehow there?
59:03
No, it's a really fascinating question, because
59:06
I mean, just based on some of the events that
59:08
we see, like one of them. like Revelation is
59:11
an easy one to look at first, where it's like,
59:14
okay, so here John the Revelator is, having this
59:19
moment inside of heaven, seeing things happen
59:22
that haven't happened yet, because he's warning
59:25
people that they're gonna happen. So it's like,
59:27
wait, is he seeing something that isn't happening
59:30
in heaven yet even? Or is it happening then,
59:33
but it hasn't happened here yet? Well, and then
59:35
there's an argument in Daniel about, hey, don't...
59:38
Don't talk about this. Yeah, he's seeing something
59:41
that Theoretically is what John is telling us
59:45
about right or telling them about and did they
59:48
see it at the same time? Yeah, and that's just
59:50
like that's kind of wild if that's true It is
59:53
and then the other thing that's interesting and
59:55
this is because we also have the blink of an
59:56
eye concept it's like it happens in a blink of
59:59
an eye like you can think of it as like Like
1:00:01
that is how long earth exists in its current
1:00:04
state and in reality eternity is already happening.
1:00:09
Right. And it's, it's, we're just like, we're
1:00:12
being sucked towards it. Yeah. But, yeah. Which
1:00:16
is weird. It is. And it's like, and then attaching
1:00:18
to that idea is, we see from deathbed experiences,
1:00:23
which is in the near -death experience, except
1:00:26
for it's not near -death, it's death -death.
1:00:28
Yeah, yeah. Where a lot of times those people
1:00:31
will... they'll say that they're seeing this
1:00:37
big light and there's loved ones, there's an
1:00:39
angel that comes to them, to use that terminology.
1:00:42
And then they see loved ones that have died come
1:00:46
and help usher them into heaven, those that are
1:00:50
going to heaven. And it's like, oh, so that's
1:00:52
interesting. So they're not seeing people that
1:00:54
are currently alive. So in that case, it seems
1:00:58
linear. But then we have these other moments,
1:01:00
like you're talking about, that aren't linear.
1:01:03
Well and that's where like I've heard pastors
1:01:05
be like well that stuff is like not worth talking
1:01:08
about or like not worth thinking about or Maybe
1:01:10
they're just trying to get to like yeah, but
1:01:12
you like you still need to like Love your wife.
1:01:16
It's like yeah, I understand that of course so
1:01:19
anyway Like I understand that but I like to entertain
1:01:23
the idea it's like yeah, okay I got that I work
1:01:26
on that daily, but I also like I want my like
1:01:29
that's the That's the thing where I'm like, okay,
1:01:32
but at the same time, I don't disagree that all
1:01:36
of these things have to come to pass and have
1:01:38
to happen. The Bible also says that, but it doesn't
1:01:41
mean that it's not like, it's not like it's,
1:01:44
you know what I mean? It's like, it is this blink
1:01:47
of an eye. Like a day is like a thousand years
1:01:50
is like a day to the Lord. It's this idea that
1:01:52
like, all of our linear time and existence on
1:01:56
earth and when earth started and the universe
1:01:59
and all of those things. It's like this could
1:02:02
all be happening like, like he, earth, you know
1:02:07
what I mean? Like heavens and earth are there
1:02:09
and then he already has done everything. Like
1:02:12
when we talk about like, like as Christians it's
1:02:16
like the battle has already won. On some level
1:02:19
it feels like there's a cosmic, That's a cosmic
1:02:22
statement. That means that the end has actually
1:02:26
already come, but we just aren't there yet. But
1:02:31
outside of our linear time, it already exists.
1:02:36
Which is weird, and that's the part that makes
1:02:38
it kind of interesting too. It's like, well,
1:02:40
as far as we can see in our life, it's like the
1:02:43
spiritual realm hasn't caught up to that idea
1:02:44
yet either. Because it's not like it's just frozen
1:02:47
and we're the only ones that haven't gotten there.
1:02:48
But they wouldn't be because they're trapped
1:02:50
on Earth. Mm, yeah. So it's like, wait, hold
1:02:53
on. You know what I mean? And you're like, wait,
1:02:54
what are you talking about? Demons? What episode
1:02:57
is that? Well, that's one of the things that
1:03:01
I was saying, is we didn't quite get to that
1:03:06
just simple argument of what is a demon. Yeah.
1:03:10
We just talked about Book of Enoch. Right. So
1:03:13
in reality, we never dissected what Enoch says.
1:03:20
Which, to be fair, was kind of intentional. Yeah,
1:03:23
yeah, so we need to get to that at some point.
1:03:25
Yeah. But yeah, so like this is, like in some
1:03:28
ways this is an intentional tangent episode.
1:03:30
Yeah. Of like, this is what an episode would
1:03:32
look like if we didn't just pick one topic and
1:03:36
try and research it. We're just gonna talk about
1:03:37
them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, well,
1:03:40
and so I guess I'll take this moment too to say,
1:03:42
if I haven't said before, which. Okay. There's
1:03:44
a good chance I have. But it's worth saying again.
1:03:47
I think for me, it's like with my intention with
1:03:53
all of these episodes and all future episodes
1:03:56
is like if one person can get excited to read
1:04:01
the Bible, then it's like, that's all I need.
1:04:04
That would make me so happy and I could die a
1:04:07
happy man. And it's to those things where those
1:04:11
conversations, I know they happen to... So many
1:04:14
people won't even say a number. Maybe it's five,
1:04:17
who knows? How many people are there in the world?
1:04:20
Ten? There's at least as many as are in your
1:04:25
city. Maybe more, who knows? Who knows? Who's
1:04:31
to say? I know there's at least more than three.
1:04:35
Because we need at least one viewer. Three. We
1:04:40
caught ya. We see you, Sharon. It's us watching.
1:04:46
It's one, two, three, four. Nice. There's four
1:04:49
people. But it's like, they have questions. Yeah.
1:04:53
Because they're curious about stuff. Sure. And
1:04:56
I think some people are nervous. People in authority,
1:04:59
they get a little bit nervous sometimes. And
1:05:01
it's like, well, for your benefit, don't even
1:05:02
read that. Maybe they're right to say that, I
1:05:06
don't know. But I think if you're curious enough
1:05:08
about it, you should be able to find out information
1:05:11
about it. And so it's like, and it's not to say,
1:05:16
oh, I'm gonna search this to neglect all these
1:05:18
things. It's like, no, that's part of the fun.
1:05:20
It's like part of the fun is like, no, let's
1:05:22
just dive into it. It's like, I'm probably not
1:05:25
gonna find the right answer, or an answer. Maybe,
1:05:28
maybe I will. But who cares? Right. The fun is
1:05:30
doing it. And I think when we start to nip all
1:05:34
of those things out, then the Bible gets boring
1:05:37
and life becomes just a mundane routine. Yeah.
1:05:40
And it's like, it doesn't have to be, because
1:05:41
there's a lot of wild stuff in here. Yeah. And
1:05:44
so it's kind of like, and we've, I think we talked
1:05:46
about that in episode zero. It's like, let's
1:05:48
open that space up a little bit. Yeah. Say like,
1:05:50
no, ask the weird question. Yeah. Because I'm
1:05:52
also curious. Yeah. And I want to look into it.
1:05:55
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, I think I think
1:05:59
the dangerous part of that is going, hey, I'm
1:06:01
gonna go down this rabbit trail because I'm interested
1:06:04
in what this is. Now, let me only do that. I'm
1:06:06
gonna devote my whole life to this one rabbit
1:06:09
trail. It's like, okay, that's when things get
1:06:12
tough because you go like, all right, let me
1:06:16
look at this text. What do we read, Gospel of
1:06:20
Thomas? But you're like, let me look at this
1:06:23
text. Oh, this nullifies what the Bible says.
1:06:26
It's like, okay, but are there, how about all
1:06:30
of the other texts like that? But also, maybe
1:06:34
look at all of them, and like we did in the Myth
1:06:37
series, it's almost like when you look at one
1:06:40
deception, it's like, wait, that means the Bible's
1:06:45
not true. But if you actually look across multiple
1:06:48
cultures, and you go, wait, across these five,
1:06:51
six, seven, eight, nine, 10 cultures, they're
1:06:55
all kinda saying the same thing, and it's all
1:06:59
the opposite of the Bible. Does that mean this
1:07:03
is all true or this is true? And I feel like
1:07:07
what I've found and what I've seen, even to the
1:07:10
point of archaeological finds, it's almost like
1:07:15
the more you dig, the more true the Bible becomes.
1:07:21
So the reality is what is true prevails. So the
1:07:26
danger is actually not digging enough. Like the
1:07:30
danger becomes, hey, let me look at this one
1:07:33
thing that seems to be counter. No, look at all
1:07:37
of it. Like just go wild and look at everything
1:07:41
because when you look at everything, you get
1:07:44
a fuller picture and you go, okay, now I actually
1:07:46
can bounce all this against the truth. And then
1:07:49
you start to look at it and go, oh, it's all
1:07:51
a similar deception. against this one thing.
1:07:56
We pointed out in our myth series, as you're
1:07:58
going through all these, you realize that they're
1:08:00
actually not that different. But there's a couple
1:08:03
things that are different. It's like, oh, they're
1:08:06
all telling, they're focusing on a different
1:08:07
piece. The part that can throw us off is they
1:08:09
don't use Bible language. It's like they use
1:08:12
their language. And so you need to assimilate
1:08:15
that. But if you're just looking, it's like,
1:08:18
oh, well, this one, the... Native Australians
1:08:22
say that a giant frog drank all the water. And
1:08:25
then they made him laugh and he, you know, vomited
1:08:28
it out. And that's where the flood came. I was
1:08:30
trying to avoid that word. Because I wouldn't
1:08:32
be able to say it without laughing. Too late.
1:08:37
You know what I mean? It's like, oh, that's what
1:08:39
happened. And it's like, if that's all you know,
1:08:41
that's all you focus on, then you're like, oh,
1:08:43
the Bible's wrong. This isn't real. But then
1:08:46
it's like, wait a second. Let's compare that
1:08:48
to this and this and this and this really they're
1:08:50
actually telling the same story Yeah, but there's
1:08:53
just slight shifts and pieces. Yeah Yeah, so
1:08:56
that's like that that is that thing is like let's
1:08:59
actually like that that was a to take that a
1:09:03
step further the podcast is really like Hey that
1:09:05
little like side closet that side question like
1:09:08
let's open the door. See what's in there Sometimes
1:09:11
it's like wait. This actually sheds a lot of
1:09:13
a lot more light on context of scripture and
1:09:16
then you open some and it's like oh there's nothing
1:09:18
in here yeah like this actually we don't need
1:09:20
to spend time on this but explore it some of
1:09:22
them it's like oh no yeah like uh i need to get
1:09:27
some different tools before i open that one again
1:09:30
and i think that's where it's important even
1:09:33
when we look at scripture it's like where are
1:09:34
the hard lines that it draws yeah and we have
1:09:36
warnings about this like one of the biggest ones
1:09:39
is like magic sure and it's like don't open the
1:09:41
door in that right you can know like what it
1:09:44
like the concept of it. It's like, okay, what
1:09:47
is magic? I was like, well, how do I do it? It's
1:09:50
like, close that door. Don't even open that up.
1:09:53
Don't even crack it. Actually, put a blanket
1:09:55
underneath the jam, too. Well, and to some extent,
1:09:59
you don't necessarily have to explore praxis.
1:10:02
You don't necessarily have to explore playing
1:10:06
football to learn about football. Going back
1:10:10
to that very first idea, it's like, well, if
1:10:12
you're interested in origins of magic, then read
1:10:15
about the origins of magic. Don't go do magic.
1:10:19
You know what I mean? Because like anything,
1:10:22
it's like if you get a bookshelf from Ikea, you
1:10:26
can not read the instruction if you want to,
1:10:29
but it's gonna be so much harder for you. So
1:10:32
like, hey, this person over here, they seem to
1:10:35
be getting healed or they seem to be getting
1:10:37
knowledge from tarot cards or from this other,
1:10:39
let me go do that. Hang on, read the instructions
1:10:42
first. Yeah, go figure out what they're actually
1:10:45
doing before you partake in it. Yeah, and that's
1:10:48
kind of the whole point It's like yeah. Hey,
1:10:51
let's let's let's stop for a minute. Let's talk
1:10:54
about what these things are it brings greater
1:10:56
concept or context and That's why I like that's
1:11:00
like and I think with that it's like to dispel
1:11:02
the myth a little bit. Yeah You know or the idea
1:11:06
excited it's like It's the whole, the devil's
1:11:10
in everything, so the devil's not in anything
1:11:11
idea. It's like when someone, I hear this a lot
1:11:15
from Christians, and it's a traditional thing,
1:11:17
where it's just like, oh, magic's bad, therefore
1:11:20
it's fake. It's like, no, I never said that.
1:11:23
The Bible never said that. It said don't do it.
1:11:27
And so I think what happens sometimes with certain
1:11:30
things, we get told, no, no, no. that's fake,
1:11:33
don't do it. And then we learn, oh, there are
1:11:36
other gods. Oh, wait a second, like magic is
1:11:40
a real thing. And it's like, yeah, and the Bible
1:11:43
said don't mess with it. It said they're false
1:11:46
gods. It said that's dangerous. Yeah, and we
1:11:50
talked about this on a previous episode, like
1:11:52
false doesn't mean fake. And over time, Part
1:11:57
of the problem with that is over time the false
1:12:00
gods, meaning the deceptive gods, the non -true
1:12:05
god, or the non -true king of kings, those eventually
1:12:13
gain less power in certain spaces, but the relics
1:12:16
remain. So where we are now, we might look around
1:12:20
and be like, oh, that's just a statue. It's like,
1:12:23
yeah, but... It could be possessed by something
1:12:26
if someone asked it to be, but also they, in
1:12:32
their culture, they see that as a vessel to be
1:12:35
possessed or to house a spirit. And even though
1:12:39
you may not experience many of those vessels
1:12:41
now that are housing spirits, they used to all
1:12:45
house spirits. So just because you see a statue
1:12:51
that isn't housing a spirit, It doesn't mean
1:12:54
that it wasn't originally designed to and did
1:12:57
a house of spirit Yeah, like so that's the that's
1:13:00
a that's a big part of it But yeah, but it's
1:13:03
kind of like that opening the framework up a
1:13:05
little bit Yeah, or open our worldview up a little
1:13:07
bit. Yeah to be like both things can be true
1:13:10
Yeah, and it's like just because it's bad doesn't
1:13:13
mean it's not real. It just means it's bad. Yeah
1:13:16
So Paul existence, what are we doing here? I
1:13:21
wish I could tell ya. Gotta watch Martyrs' Row
1:13:23
to find out. Three, two, one.