Latest / The White Papers / The Next Generation of Crypto Wallets | ChangeNOW, MetaMask & Trezor

Transcript

The Next Generation of Crypto Wallets | ChangeNOW, MetaMask & Trezor · The White Papers

• 0:00
  Hello, my name is Kelvin Sparks.
• 0:02
  We're recording from Token 2049
• 0:04
  Singapore at Marina Bay Sands.
• 0:06
  We are in the Change Now booth
• 0:07
  currently, where I'm joined by
• 0:08
  Francesco from Metamask.
• 0:11
  We have Yana from Change Now and
• 0:13
  Dennis from Treasure.
• 0:14
  We're going to have a very lovely
• 0:16
  discussion on wallets and the
• 0:17
  evolution of this technology, what
• 0:19
  it means for the future, and maybe
• 0:21
  even what comes next.
• 0:22
  That being said, if you guys would
• 0:23
  love to introduce yourself really
• 0:25
  quickly, a bit about your company,
• 0:27
  then we'll jump in.
• 0:28
  Who wanna start?
• 0:29
  Should I start?
• 0:29
  Okay, sounds good.
• 0:31
  Francesco, I'm leading developer
• 0:32
  relation at Metamask.
• 0:34
  Super excited.
• 0:35
  I think talking this year is very
• 0:36
  vibrant and I'm excited to do this
• 0:38
  interview in the booth, the
• 0:40
  change now booth of the booth and
• 0:42
  talking about wallets, what's coming
• 0:44
  next, even what's
• 0:46
  hot in the
• 0:48
  narrative space and a bunch of
• 0:50
  announcements that happen.
• 0:51
  They're happening and let's do it.
• 0:53
  Thanks a lot.
• 0:54
  Yeah, so I'll go next.
• 0:57
  My name is Jana.
• 0:57
  I'm from ChangeNow and I'm head of
• 0:59
  B2B and partnerships.
• 1:01
  So ChangeNow was like
• 1:04
  used to be just a crypto exchange
• 1:06
  but now we are moving mostly to
• 1:08
  crypto super app for the users
• 1:10
  and business platform for
• 1:12
  partners.
• 1:13
  We are still providing exchanges,
• 1:16
  cross-chain swaps and this is our
• 1:17
  main feature like the core product
• 1:19
  but we are
• 1:21
  not limited to it now.
• 1:22
  So we are working
• 1:24
  with wallets and
• 1:27
  wallets are one of the biggest
• 1:29
  part of our partners.
• 1:30
  So that's why I'm here talking about
• 1:32
  wallets.
• 1:34
  And yeah, as mentioned, my name is
• 1:36
  Denis.
• 1:37
  I'm a software product lead at
• 1:39
  Trezor.
• 1:39
  My main responsibility is
• 1:41
  taking care of our mobile and
• 1:43
  desktop apps.
• 1:44
  And for those who might not know,
• 1:46
  Trezors is a hardware wallet.
• 1:48
  We have been around on the market
• 1:50
  for 13 years, I believe,
• 1:52
  if that's correct.
• 1:53
  And yeah.
• 1:54
  First time in Singapore and enjoying
• 1:55
  it very, very much.
• 1:57
  Also, actually, that's a good
• 1:59
  anecdote. First time is Singapore.
• 2:00
  How are you liking it thus far,
• 2:01
  Denis?
• 2:03
  Little bit humid for my taste
• 2:05
  but I got used to
• 2:07
  it and the people make
• 2:09
  up for it for sure.
• 2:10
  Well...
• 2:11
  While it's our hot topic, but at
• 2:13
  least it's cool in the booth, we'll
• 2:14
  make it a lovely conversation.
• 2:17
  So that being said, I mean, there's
• 2:18
  a point in time where paper wallets
• 2:20
  were an innovation.
• 2:21
  And now we actually have very, very
• 2:23
  smooth UX in crypto.
• 2:25
  So to start out, maybe we can start
• 2:26
  with you, Francesco.
• 2:28
  What do you think the level of
• 2:29
  abstraction versus advanced
• 2:31
  tooling do you think a user would
• 2:32
  need?
• 2:33
  Yeah, I mean, I think the
• 2:34
  evolution of wallets has been crazy,
• 2:36
  right? Like we started from, as you
• 2:37
  say, like, you know, paper wallets,
• 2:40
  like people always like use to
• 2:43
  connect to the apps, right.
• 2:44
  And I think like Metamask has been
• 2:46
  always this kind of like door to
• 2:47
  everything web 3, you know from like
• 2:50
  buying your first NFT to do your
• 2:52
  first trade.
• 2:53
  And I thing like everything evolve
• 2:54
  in this kind of like an
• 2:56
  all in a suite of product where
• 2:58
  you have access to, right
• 3:01
  This is the first part.
• 3:02
  The second part of kind of like the
• 3:03
  question I think is also the
• 3:06
  target audience constantly
• 3:08
  is changing, right?
• 3:10
  We started to see a lot of like,
• 3:11
  let's say, people that just wanna
• 3:13
  like, you think about like
• 3:15
  holding and doing stuff and parking
• 3:17
  your money.
• 3:17
  Now we have a much more like crowded
• 3:20
  audience that is actually like eager
• 3:22
  to, not just having all the
• 3:24
  product in one kind of like suite of
• 3:25
  tooling, but also having
• 3:27
  access to a lot of different things.
• 3:30
  And I think what also is being
• 3:32
  doing, like, you know, not just
• 3:33
  connecting to like daps,
• 3:35
  but also like trading,
• 3:38
  parking your money with actually
• 3:39
  making your money working for you,
• 3:40
  right? So there are different
• 3:42
  things. And I obviously think this
• 3:43
  big wave in this market,
• 3:45
  we see a lot of like new retail
• 3:48
  appetite for
• 3:50
  like very in-house
• 3:52
  experiences.
• 3:54
  We don't see like going out to like
• 3:55
  different platform and people want
• 3:56
  to kind of like stay in.
• 3:57
  So I think like.
• 3:58
  The move of like the direction
• 4:01
  and Metamask is really having this
• 4:03
  kind of like super accelerated
• 4:05
  like product that is not
• 4:07
  just extension mobile but is also
• 4:09
  power charged by like AI
• 4:11
  wallets like we just recently
• 4:12
  launched the Metamasking agent
• 4:13
  wallet so even kind of advanced
• 4:15
  trader can run their
• 4:17
  own quant strategy
• 4:19
  without actually using the interface
• 4:21
  but with the same security
• 4:23
  guarantees.
• 4:24
  I think like the biggest
• 4:25
  part of the game in this evolution
• 4:28
  is staying true to kind of like your
• 4:30
  your primitives and security.
• 4:32
  Is the priority.
• 4:34
  Francesco, that was a really, really
• 4:35
  good point. Once you actually have
• 4:36
  the wallet, it's primitive and you
• 4:37
  need something to do with it.
• 4:39
  Going across different chains will
• 4:40
  be very, very difficult.
• 4:42
  And at Change. Now, you guys are
• 4:43
  experts in cross-chain swaps.
• 4:45
  So I think you ought to be cool for
• 4:47
  you to talk about what the user
• 4:48
  experience should feel like for
• 4:50
  somebody who maybe is not a super
• 4:51
  advanced crypto user when they have
• 4:53
  that wallet and they want to go from
• 4:55
  one chain to another.
• 4:58
  So it should be
• 5:00
  easy and not complicated, of course,
• 5:02
  because I've
• 5:04
  been working with wallets a lot.
• 5:05
  And I could say that
• 5:07
  especially like early
• 5:09
  stages wallet,
• 5:12
  they like have a
• 5:14
  lack of good UI and UX.
• 5:15
  So it's really important to build a
• 5:17
  product that your users could
• 5:19
  actually use.
• 5:20
  And it would be easier and
• 5:23
  like something like one step
• 5:24
  operations. And soul.
• 5:26
  Talking about the cross-chain swaps,
• 5:28
  I guess for the wallet, it's easier
• 5:30
  to integrate a reliable provider,
• 5:33
  just to not like, it's not their
• 5:35
  core product.
• 5:36
  And we are providing
• 5:37
  those services for like 10 years
• 5:39
  on the market.
• 5:40
  And we know how to do it easy,
• 5:43
  without any extra actions,
• 5:46
  without even like, for example, we
• 5:47
  do have this feature for
• 5:50
  swaps from USDT on Tron,
• 5:52
  where a user...
• 5:53
  Don't have to pay Gatsby in Tron.
• 5:55
  So I guess that solves a lot of
• 5:57
  problems for the users because I
• 5:59
  myself, when I'm trying to
• 6:01
  exchange USDT on Tron for something
• 6:03
  like Bitcoin, I'm
• 6:05
  struggling because I don't
• 6:07
  any T-Rex on my wallet and I have
• 6:09
  to find a place to buy it.
• 6:11
  So we are kind of solving this
• 6:13
  problem.
• 6:14
  And that's only one of the
• 6:16
  examples of how we could help
• 6:18
  to make cross-chain swaps easier
• 6:20
  for the users of our partners,
• 6:22
  like especially Wallets.
• 6:24
  Yeah, well said.
• 6:25
  And Dennis, I guess on your end, you
• 6:26
  probably tend to cater to a bit more
• 6:28
  advanced users.
• 6:29
  People are very security focused.
• 6:31
  So how do you balance catering to
• 6:32
  very, very advanced users while also
• 6:34
  providing something that doesn't
• 6:36
  necessarily scare off someone who's
• 6:37
  just getting their first hardware
• 6:38
  wallet?
• 6:40
  That's a very good question.
• 6:42
  I think, and we have struggled
• 6:45
  with this a little bit because
• 6:48
  our core customer user
• 6:50
  base is in the Eastern industry
• 6:53
  for a very long time at this point,
• 6:55
  but we as a
• 6:57
  company need to grow.
• 6:58
  And I think not only
• 7:00
  us as a company, but the
• 7:02
  industry as a whole.
• 7:04
  And with this in mind, we need
• 7:06
  to be able to onboard new users.
• 7:08
  To make the experience,
• 7:10
  as mentioned, as easy as possible.
• 7:13
  And that means
• 7:15
  obstructing some things
• 7:17
  away.
• 7:19
  Sometimes it can end
• 7:21
  up being at the cost of
• 7:24
  security, which I don't
• 7:26
  think it's a good approach to
• 7:28
  take.
• 7:29
  But overall,
• 7:31
  it's not really
• 7:33
  about hiding necessarily
• 7:35
  all the things away, but make
• 7:37
  them available whenever a user
• 7:39
  needs it.
• 7:41
  Like in the actual UI it
• 7:43
  can manifest in some
• 7:45
  small label or drop down
• 7:47
  but overall I think this is the
• 7:49
  right approach to take.
• 7:50
  I really like what you said about
• 7:52
  the kind of like the decision
• 7:54
  between advanced users.
• 7:55
  And I think like we really need to
• 7:57
  build like an ecosystem on
• 7:59
  around onboarding for both
• 8:00
  audiences. Right.
• 8:02
  Like, for example, we take very
• 8:03
  seriously, for the entire kind of,
• 8:04
  like, perp's trading experience.
• 8:06
  You have your light and pro version.
• 8:08
  When you use, for, example, the
• 8:09
  MetaMassMoney account, you just, you
• 8:11
  know, you just deposit.
• 8:13
  So there are different, like
• 8:14
  experiences. And I think it's super
• 8:15
  important also to kind of like cover
• 8:18
  advanced kind of like users
• 8:19
  experience, especially like when
• 8:21
  we see more institutionals
• 8:23
  coming on board, more advanced user
• 8:26
  coming on board.
• 8:27
  And I think like, you know, the
• 8:28
  usability around also like other
• 8:30
  wallets and the
• 8:32
  way that we are structuring right
• 8:34
  now in the space is also like much
• 8:36
  better compared to like a
• 8:37
  bit before, right?
• 8:39
  I definitely see like, a lot of
• 8:41
  like abstraction way that could be
• 8:43
  kind of optimized.
• 8:44
  But I think right now
• 8:47
  we are caring so much about
• 8:48
  onboarding, but we also need to
• 8:49
  think about the offboarding, all the
• 8:51
  fragmentation around like so many
• 8:53
  crypto cards out there.
• 8:54
  And I think it's super important to
• 8:55
  kind of like build this unified
• 8:57
  experiences because what
• 9:00
  we're also seeing, especially in
• 9:02
  this cycle is as I
• 9:04
  mentioned before, like retail users
• 9:05
  are trying to kind of like
• 9:07
  stay kind of in
• 9:09
  the same like ecosystem.
• 9:11
  That's why what you mentioned about
• 9:13
  multi-chain is super interesting.
• 9:14
  Like, you know, people don't want to
• 9:16
  kind of like be just on
• 9:18
  Solana or just be on just
• 9:20
  in Ethereum. This concept about like
• 9:22
  EVM, non-EVM kind of like need to
• 9:24
  collapse together in just one
• 9:25
  single. And I really like the fact
• 9:27
  that we are bringing more abstracted
• 9:29
  experiences around like
• 9:31
  also like delegation system.
• 9:34
  So I'm big fan around like also the
• 9:36
  delegation kind of underneath
• 9:37
  infrastructure because
• 9:39
  people will need to satisfy
• 9:41
  different needs, right?
• 9:42
  Think about building like wallets
• 9:43
  for like families or like
• 9:45
  delegation for like their
• 9:47
  own kids, you know, like think about
• 9:49
  it. That's why garlics and
• 9:50
  delegation are super super
• 9:52
  important, right?
• 9:53
  And especially in the agent agent
• 9:56
  agent to agent economy, too
• 9:58
  Yeah, definitely.
• 10:00
  It's interesting. I'd be curious to
• 10:01
  get all your perspectives.
• 10:03
  If you were going to build a wallet
• 10:04
  from scratch today, what's the
• 10:06
  first feature you're going to integrate
• 10:07
  in that product?
• 10:08
  Hahaha
• 10:10
  It's a fun one, sorry.
• 10:13
  I can pick it up.
• 10:15
  I think there is or
• 10:17
  there are already a lot of
• 10:19
  products on the market that feel
• 10:21
  very same-ish.
• 10:23
  So I think if I
• 10:25
  would try to make a splash
• 10:26
  with something new,
• 10:29
  I would go like 100%
• 10:31
  the agentic way and I would just
• 10:33
  give it a shot.
• 10:34
  Because coming up with
• 10:36
  a new product that
• 10:38
  feels like either Tresor or
• 10:40
  Metamask or all other hot wallets.
• 10:43
  It's a very tough competition,
• 10:45
  right? All these companies already
• 10:46
  have strong partnerships.
• 10:48
  They can negotiate the fees and
• 10:49
  everything. They have huge legal
• 10:51
  teams that can back
• 10:53
  them up. But if you are just
• 10:55
  starting, you don't have these
• 10:56
  resources. You don't the people that
• 10:58
  you can rely on.
• 10:59
  So starting with
• 11:01
  something very same would be
• 11:03
  a tough job.
• 11:04
  So I would try something completely
• 11:06
  new and just go all
• 11:08
  on it.
• 11:08
  Well said well said I
• 11:11
  mean, this is a really good
• 11:12
  question, right?
• 11:13
  I don't know if I would have done I
• 11:15
  mean now it's my I'm crossing my
• 11:17
  fifth year at Metamask, right But
• 11:18
  even like, you know before like the
• 11:21
  like being connected with
• 11:23
  like the ecosystem obviously was
• 11:24
  first Was first priority
• 11:27
  and having this seamless like
• 11:28
  onboarding. I think like I would
• 11:30
  definitely like focus
• 11:32
  Like on the onboarding
• 11:34
  side, right you cannot build like
• 11:35
  all the follow-ups experiences
• 11:38
  if you don't have a proper
• 11:39
  onboarding tooling, right?
• 11:41
  So I think that's super important.
• 11:43
  And I think DAP's
• 11:46
  tooling, I think is super relevant.
• 11:48
  I think, and we've seen an
• 11:50
  acceleration of this
• 11:52
  tooling in the market,
• 11:54
  but it is a lot of different
• 11:56
  similar tooling today, right.
• 11:58
  So on the agent side,
• 12:00
  I'm more interesting also to
• 12:02
  see, because I feel like it's
• 12:04
  like crypto at the beginning, right?
• 12:06
  Like more standardization and
• 12:08
  attestation solution coming
• 12:10
  from the Web3 space that can also
• 12:12
  be applied in more kind of
• 12:14
  like Web2 ecosystem, right?
• 12:16
  So reputation ecosystem for
• 12:18
  agent, standardized,
• 12:20
  I mean, X4.2 is a big
• 12:22
  step up and obviously
• 12:24
  like the attestations ecosystem
• 12:26
  around A004.
• 12:27
  So I'm excited and I will start also
• 12:29
  like from that and that's kind of
• 12:31
  what is happening around the agent.
• 12:33
  And also like one thing
• 12:35
  is It's not just product here.
• 12:37
  Like we're also speaking about
• 12:38
  distribution.
• 12:39
  I think like distribution is one of
• 12:41
  the most important part of the game
• 12:43
  here. And if I also like we'll
• 12:45
  need to start from scratch, I will
• 12:46
  put a lot of efforts in
• 12:48
  the distribution side, reaching
• 12:50
  really the user where they
• 12:52
  are and not kind of like assuming
• 12:54
  they are coming,
• 12:56
  you know, to our web three ecosystem
• 12:59
  and that's it, right?
• 13:01
  So I would definitely focus on
• 13:02
  distribution.
• 13:04
  It's a bit of a tough question for
• 13:05
  you to answer, given it's not your
• 13:06
  core business.
• 13:07
  But at this point, I think it'd be
• 13:08
  cool, Yana, to talk about how AI
• 13:10
  agents are changing how you think
• 13:11
  about your business that changed
• 13:12
  out.
• 13:13
  Okay, so I was about to
• 13:15
  talk about the wallet from scratch
• 13:17
  If you'd like to, I just
• 13:19
  know it's tough.
• 13:20
  No, it's fine.
• 13:22
  I could just imagine.
• 13:24
  So I would say that it's still
• 13:26
  important to have the
• 13:28
  basic functionality like swaps
• 13:30
  and stuff like that just because
• 13:31
  it's like one of the most
• 13:33
  important revenues for
• 13:36
  wallets still even if like
• 13:38
  each wallet has it.
• 13:40
  But I would agree that the
• 13:42
  The forcing part is really important
• 13:43
  currently just because You know,
• 13:46
  I guess that the current products,
• 13:48
  they are like kind of fighting for
• 13:50
  an existing traffic.
• 13:52
  So they are mostly working
• 13:54
  and aiming to make
• 13:56
  products for the current crypto
• 13:57
  users. But then the boring part is
• 13:59
  important just because like
• 14:01
  right now the market is limited
• 14:03
  and you have to think of the ways
• 14:05
  of how to grow it.
• 14:07
  And talking about the boring parts,
• 14:09
  I would say that...
• 14:11
  I see the problem in
• 14:13
  fiat providers and fiat part buy
• 14:15
  and sell features just because, you
• 14:16
  know, most of the providers,
• 14:19
  they like do KYC, they
• 14:21
  do have limits, they have
• 14:23
  complicated onboarding and
• 14:25
  even exchanges process.
• 14:27
  And I could talk about
• 14:29
  that from my experience because we
• 14:31
  like we're trying to find some
• 14:33
  good third party provider for
• 14:35
  that part. But still like
• 14:37
  the volume that we are having
• 14:39
  from fiat to crypto exchanges is
• 14:41
  like low comparing
• 14:43
  to the crypto to crypto part so in
• 14:45
  order to get new users to
• 14:47
  actually use crypto we
• 14:50
  need to like find a good way to
• 14:51
  unbore them
• 14:52
  That's a good point. And I really do
• 14:54
  want to get into distribution, but I
• 14:55
  have one more question, just
• 14:57
  on this topic.
• 14:59
  So how do you think about actually
• 15:01
  balancing implementing new features
• 15:03
  versus sticking to
• 15:05
  your core business as you see
• 15:07
  technology accelerating?
• 15:08
  Because it's a tough balance.
• 15:09
  You want to cater to that core
• 15:10
  audience and you want to grow, but
• 15:12
  it's very, very fine
• 15:14
  line that you tow because you can
• 15:15
  get lost very quickly.
• 15:18
  I think an important part here is
• 15:20
  that you want to also solidify the
• 15:22
  experiences with those features,
• 15:24
  right? Because today we have so
• 15:26
  many different feature requests.
• 15:27
  But I think the fundamentals need to
• 15:29
  be kind of like R-Cored vetted,
• 15:31
  right.
• 15:32
  And so many feedbacks still on
• 15:34
  how I'm trading perps, how I
• 15:36
  am doing pred on MetaMask,
• 15:39
  right? It's super important to have
• 15:40
  these fundamentals.
• 15:42
  And I think, again, security
• 15:44
  first. So and
• 15:46
  anything that you want to do, you
• 15:47
  don't want to kind of like ship it,
• 15:49
  but actually like understand you
• 15:52
  doing you like strong UXRs
• 15:54
  and and having kind of a solid
• 15:56
  product. And I think one most
• 15:58
  important part is like iterate on
• 15:59
  the product and feedbacks,
• 16:01
  especially like with different
• 16:03
  like target audience.
• 16:04
  We were speaking a bit before about
• 16:06
  this kind of satisfying
• 16:09
  different audiences from like even
• 16:10
  in the trading space, you know, from
• 16:12
  beginner and and I
• 16:14
  think it's super important to have
• 16:15
  this in mind.
• 16:17
  And that's why it's also like
• 16:19
  an iteration. So there is always
• 16:20
  like some sweet spot, but also
• 16:22
  it's Super relevant focusing
• 16:24
  on where the PMF is.
• 16:26
  And I think this special like
• 16:28
  cycle, I think a lot of company
• 16:30
  had this opportunity to understand
• 16:32
  and focus where actually like
• 16:34
  the user want to go.
• 16:35
  So I'm excited about because we
• 16:38
  have much clearer vision.
• 16:41
  Also, retail that's
• 16:42
  coming in, institutions are coming
• 16:44
  in. They see, I think, a much more
• 16:46
  solid ecosystem
• 16:48
  with hard-vetted features.
• 16:51
  So I'm excited to see also the next
• 16:53
  6 to 12 months.
• 16:55
  I would say that I agree that
• 16:57
  security and like keeping the
• 16:59
  quality of your
• 17:01
  core product on the same level is
• 17:03
  really important just because like
• 17:04
  it was the initial product itself.
• 17:07
  Yeah, but it's also important
• 17:09
  to build like and try and
• 17:10
  test some new features, some new
• 17:12
  functionality just because I
• 17:15
  guess the market is like
• 17:17
  kind of overwhelmed.
• 17:18
  So you need to constantly
• 17:20
  fight for the attention of
• 17:22
  the users.
• 17:23
  And if you're just providing
• 17:25
  the same old product,
• 17:27
  it's kind of complicated.
• 17:30
  So we at Change.Now
• 17:32
  are trying to focus on
• 17:34
  both things.
• 17:35
  Security first, of course,
• 17:37
  especially now given all of those
• 17:39
  AI stuff, because
• 17:41
  I guess that
• 17:44
  is kind of more complicated
• 17:46
  right now.
• 17:47
  Yeah, but also we are trying
• 17:49
  to like test some new features.
• 17:51
  Even if they don't seem like they
• 17:54
  combine with the
• 17:56
  core functionality.
• 17:58
  I can only echo
• 17:59
  the trust aspect.
• 18:01
  I think it's especially, it's
• 18:03
  really important, especially now
• 18:05
  when we see protocols
• 18:07
  or devs or even some wallets
• 18:09
  getting hacked left, right and
• 18:11
  center.
• 18:12
  And we at Trezor,
• 18:15
  unfortunately, we have been slow at
• 18:17
  some things or that might seem to
• 18:19
  the outside audience, but we were
• 18:21
  always very deliberate about what
• 18:23
  chain we want to support and
• 18:25
  whatnot. Because we know
• 18:27
  that our users or customers
• 18:29
  are getting treasured because they
• 18:30
  trust us.
• 18:31
  They trust us with sometimes their
• 18:32
  life savings.
• 18:33
  So we took the
• 18:35
  approach of curation.
• 18:37
  We don't necessarily want to support
• 18:39
  everything because sometimes when
• 18:41
  we have a new chain,
• 18:44
  you cannot know what
• 18:46
  it will end up as.
• 18:48
  And sometimes what
• 18:50
  happened was that we were thinking
• 18:52
  of implementing a new chain and
• 18:54
  it died before we even got
• 18:56
  to implementing it.
• 18:57
  So we
• 18:59
  took the very similar approach with,
• 19:01
  for example, with our
• 19:04
  stable coin yield feature.
• 19:07
  We basically were thinking about
• 19:09
  what are the options, right?
• 19:10
  We can support some
• 19:13
  lower yield but very
• 19:14
  low risk vaults.
• 19:17
  And then at the other end, you
• 19:18
  have this very high APY
• 19:21
  walls that are sometimes earning
• 19:23
  even double digits, right?
• 19:24
  But the risk there is much
• 19:26
  bigger than with the smaller walls.
• 19:28
  And we know that from all
• 19:30
  the user interviews and speaking
• 19:32
  to our customer base is that
• 19:34
  they basically
• 19:37
  trust that we will do the
• 19:39
  right call for them.
• 19:40
  So we took an approach of, hey,
• 19:42
  we don't want to support anything.
• 19:44
  We don't need to
• 19:45
  support anything but we will
• 19:48
  give you a feature
• 19:50
  that you can 100%.
• 19:53
  And trust us with.
• 19:54
  Yeah, I mean, to points you all
• 19:56
  say very well, trust is the
• 19:57
  foundation of everything and
• 19:59
  then you build on top of it.
• 20:00
  And I think that kind of segue is,
• 20:02
  it's a good segue to go into
• 20:03
  distribution because with that
• 20:05
  word of mouth marketing is always
• 20:06
  the best marketing that you can get.
• 20:08
  If you really trust a product you're
• 20:09
  gonna say, I'm gonna tell my mom,
• 20:11
  I'm going to tell my brother, my
• 20:12
  sister, maybe my grandma, she's
• 20:14
  technologically savvy, that hey,
• 20:16
  this is something that you should
• 20:17
  try. But with that.
• 20:19
  How do you get that trust is
• 20:21
  really unique to the product that
• 20:23
  you're building or just your
• 20:25
  strengths as a company itself.
• 20:27
  So for the secret sauce, maybe
• 20:29
  for your businesses or really just
• 20:31
  in general in crypto, do you think
• 20:32
  it's partnerships?
• 20:34
  Do you think its security?
• 20:35
  Do you it's being feature rich or
• 20:37
  anything else you could think?
• 20:39
  I'm really curious what your guys
• 20:40
  thoughts are there.
• 20:41
  Very tough question.
• 20:42
  I love it.
• 20:43
  There's no right answer.
• 20:44
  Yes.
• 20:46
  From my perspective,
• 20:48
  you know, we've always said, don't
• 20:50
  trust us, verify.
• 20:52
  But there is not that many people
• 20:54
  that can like spin up GitHub and
• 20:56
  just go to the code and verify that
• 20:58
  what they are using is actually
• 20:59
  what's in the code. So I have a code
• 21:01
  card here, to be honest.
• 21:03
  So I believe it
• 21:06
  comes down to track record.
• 21:09
  There are long enough in the
• 21:11
  business with almost
• 21:13
  your issues or you are not and
• 21:15
  basically every remark
• 21:17
  on the reputation
• 21:19
  just lowers the trust and
• 21:21
  I don't think there is...
• 21:24
  You need to earn it basically.
• 21:26
  Yeah, no, it's a good point, right?
• 21:28
  I think also transparency is
• 21:31
  a big part of the
• 21:33
  trust factor.
• 21:34
  I think we've been always doubling
• 21:36
  down on
• 21:39
  the distribution side.
• 21:40
  I think a big shift also
• 21:42
  happens when you realize that
• 21:44
  building in Web3
• 21:46
  matters and having
• 21:48
  strong product matters, but also
• 21:50
  going where the users are, right.
• 21:53
  We are now expanding
• 21:55
  a lot of different activation
• 21:57
  in different local markets.
• 22:00
  You will see a lot things happening
• 22:01
  around the Metamask Money account.
• 22:04
  And I think it depends on the use
• 22:06
  case, but customized experiences,
• 22:08
  trying to get feedback directly
• 22:11
  from the user, specifying
• 22:13
  what feature they're using, I think
• 22:14
  is super important.
• 22:16
  So, yeah, I'm
• 22:18
  excited about that.
• 22:19
  Anything else?
• 22:20
  Okay and I would say that
• 22:22
  of course the security and the
• 22:24
  quality of product once again is
• 22:25
  important just because like you
• 22:27
  could spend I don't know hundreds of
• 22:29
  thousands of dollars on
• 22:31
  the marketing but still if the
• 22:33
  product is not good users will
• 22:35
  not trust it and
• 22:37
  also will not come back so that's
• 22:39
  still important.
• 22:40
  Also I would that to
• 22:42
  distribute the product you
• 22:44
  should have a good monetization
• 22:46
  model just because I've made
• 22:48
  a lot of projects who are like
• 22:50
  We are talking about swaps, for
• 22:52
  example, because we
• 22:54
  also help our partners to
• 22:56
  earn on swaps And
• 22:58
  they're like, okay, we are not
• 22:59
  getting any money from this We're
• 23:00
  not getting in any money for that
• 23:02
  and that's good But like how
• 23:04
  are you gonna survive and how
• 23:06
  are gonna like distribute
• 23:08
  your product like on what money?
• 23:10
  And the last thing I would
• 23:12
  say consistency uh
• 23:14
  in different channels and
• 23:16
  efforts uh just because
• 23:18
  like without the consistent work
• 23:20
  and some repeated tasks
• 23:22
  repeated uh directions of marketing
• 23:24
  you cannot um like
• 23:26
  it cannot live to success and
• 23:29
  last but not least i would add
• 23:31
  partnerships for me
• 23:33
  it's really important to have like
• 23:35
  good trustworthy partners
• 23:37
  by your side um to
• 23:39
  get the trust from the users
• 23:40
  That's a good point. You could do
• 23:41
  everything right.
• 23:42
  And if you have somebody who isn't
• 23:44
  doing their part in an integrated,
• 23:46
  it could leave some holes and gaps
• 23:48
  in either your experience or even
• 23:49
  more security.
• 23:50
  So yeah, it's a really good point,
• 23:52
  maybe from your guys perspective, be
• 23:53
  interesting on the product side
• 23:55
  of things. What are the features
• 23:57
  that your users crave or use
• 23:59
  the most?
• 24:01
  As I've mentioned before,
• 24:03
  we recently moved from
• 24:05
  crypto exchange to crypto super app,
• 24:08
  and it
• 24:10
  happened also just because our
• 24:13
  users were requesting for some
• 24:14
  features, for some
• 24:16
  new products.
• 24:18
  That's why we've added private
• 24:19
  transfers, provided prediction
• 24:22
  markets, we've had limit orders.
• 24:25
  All of those features,
• 24:27
  both for users and for partners,
• 24:29
  were added just by request because
• 24:30
  we saw the interest
• 24:32
  and we decided to try it out.
• 24:34
  I mean, feature-wise, where things
• 24:36
  are going, is obviously like we're
• 24:37
  doubling down on the agentic
• 24:39
  side with Metamask Asian Wallet.
• 24:42
  We definitely see a lot of advanced
• 24:43
  trader needs, especially when
• 24:45
  you're coming from like traditional
• 24:47
  kind of like one side, when you
• 24:49
  start kind of more pushing
• 24:52
  the boundaries and you're using like
• 24:54
  to trade like an AI stack,
• 24:56
  different orchestrator are full
• 24:57
  compatible.
• 24:59
  And we start to see like, you know,
• 25:00
  interesting kind of use case, like,
• 25:02
  you know. Context-based trading
• 25:04
  with like social sentiment,
• 25:06
  with like stuff like DCA, arbitrage
• 25:08
  between different kind of like
• 25:11
  platforms, centralized and
• 25:13
  decentralized exchanges.
• 25:14
  So there is a lot of different
• 25:16
  things. So I think, I mean, not
• 25:17
  pushing like a not take, but I
• 25:19
  definitely think the volume of
• 25:21
  interface less transaction will
• 25:23
  be run, but they will be
• 25:25
  ran in a very still
• 25:28
  human in
• 25:30
  a two-agent friendly way, right?
• 25:32
  With strong security
• 25:34
  guarantees.
• 25:37
  And yeah, so that's I think
• 25:39
  something that will happen soon.
• 25:41
  Obviously, I think the big wave that
• 25:42
  we're discussing a lot here in token
• 25:44
  is the entire tokenization RWE
• 25:46
  game.
• 25:47
  We're coming with different
• 25:48
  announcements soon on
• 25:50
  that, but I definitely think
• 25:52
  distribution is what matters
• 25:54
  and meeting these users where they
• 25:56
  are. Where they are able to
• 25:58
  get, think about like
• 26:00
  unliquid pre-IPO, not
• 26:02
  in their market, I think is
• 26:03
  something that change things,
• 26:06
  right? And we see, I mean, I thing
• 26:07
  the space see a big PMF in both
• 26:10
  kind of like the
• 26:12
  RWA and tokenization space and
• 26:14
  stablecoin.
• 26:14
  So double down also on the
• 26:16
  stablecoin remittance use case
• 26:18
  and off ramping.
• 26:20
  I think it's also like one big part
• 26:22
  of like, the game.
• 26:24
  That's why I also like the entire
• 26:25
  MetaMass Money account with specific
• 26:27
  yields, so it's not just sparking
• 26:29
  your money, but it's actually like
• 26:30
  having work. So whenever you don't
• 26:32
  trade, you have it turned and
• 26:34
  whenever you want to spend
• 26:35
  automatically kind of like
• 26:37
  getting off ramp through like
• 26:40
  different kinds of solutions.
• 26:41
  So that's what I'm excited about.
• 26:43
  And I definitely want to see that in
• 26:44
  the next six to 12 months.
• 26:47
  Only a code that we have seen
• 26:49
  it among our user base as well
• 26:51
  and new people getting our
• 26:53
  products.
• 26:54
  It's about UI
• 26:56
  less interface.
• 26:58
  At some point we were thinking how
• 26:59
  we can approach it and
• 27:01
  you know I think the future is
• 27:03
  headed in the direction where you
• 27:05
  just ask an agent or
• 27:06
  some model that hey book me
• 27:08
  a flight to Singapore get me tickets
• 27:10
  and what not.
• 27:11
  But I don't think you would trust
• 27:13
  any agent with your
• 27:15
  wallet or anything like 100
• 27:17
  percent, right?
• 27:19
  Make no mistakes works in
• 27:21
  some situations,
• 27:23
  but that can big fire at
• 27:25
  some point.
• 27:26
  So we are thinking about
• 27:28
  ways how we can make sure
• 27:30
  that Freezer is ultimately
• 27:32
  the device where you sign
• 27:34
  off something that yeah,
• 27:36
  I accept it.
• 27:37
  And this is what we are exploring
• 27:39
  and where I personally think it's
• 27:42
  headed.
• 27:42
  That's a good point.
• 27:43
  I mean, I saw the commercial for
• 27:45
  the muse, like the little charm
• 27:47
  thing. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm
• 27:48
  always talking this thing via my
• 27:49
  phone. I just pick up and talk to
• 27:51
  all that. It'd be awesome.
• 27:52
  A little thing fits in my pocket.
• 27:53
  Little cute thing talking to me.
• 27:55
  Yeah, but sorry, I
• 27:56
  digress a bit of a tangent, but guys
• 27:58
  has been lovely. I just want to say
• 28:00
  any closing thoughts before we wrap
• 28:01
  up here.
• 28:02
  Just please feel free.
• 28:04
  Thank you very much for having me.
• 28:06
  It was a blast.
• 28:06
  I really enjoyed it.
• 28:08
  And yeah, I think that
• 28:10
  we, as an industry,
• 28:12
  we have a lot of responsibilities.
• 28:15
  Self-custodian crypto in general is
• 28:17
  very tough job.
• 28:19
  And we should definitely not
• 28:21
  let our users down.
• 28:23
  And yeah. Just be better.
• 28:26
  Yeah, thank you.
• 28:28
  I would say that I am excited to
• 28:30
  see what's going next
• 28:32
  in crypto and I think
• 28:34
  that a lot of changes,
• 28:36
  crucial ones, are coming next.
• 28:38
  So, let's see where we go.
• 28:40
  Yeah, it's been a big pleasure
• 28:42
  talking with everyone here.
• 28:43
  And I'm excited about still today
• 28:45
  and tomorrow's kind of like still
• 28:47
  the token week is wrapping up
• 28:49
  more kind of like general views,
• 28:51
  obviously, like, you know, big
• 28:53
  lesson learned, like focus on kind
• 28:54
  of distribution and let's kind of
• 28:56
  like, goes outside our
• 28:58
  own like WebTree kind
• 29:00
  of like bubble and really reaching
• 29:02
  out the big users
• 29:05
  out there. So I think I'm exited
• 29:07
  about that and make experiences
• 29:09
  easier.
• 29:10
  I think that's super important
• 29:12
  to understand
• 29:14
  as soon as possible.
• 29:16
  So excited and for the builders
• 29:18
  and trader out there,
• 29:20
  reach out if you have any questions
• 29:21
  to everyone out there.
• 29:22
  Well said, it's been exciting, very
• 29:24
  busy. Hopefully you get a chance to
• 29:26
  get something to eat, get some rest,
• 29:28
  and thank you so much for the time
• 29:29
  again. I really appreciate it.
• 29:30
  Thank you.