Latest / Daebak K-Rambles Podcast: K-drama Reviews / That Winter, the Wind Blows | Full K-drama Review / Ep. 98

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That Winter, the Wind Blows | Full K-drama Review / Ep. 98 · Daebak K-Rambles Podcast: K-drama Reviews

• 0:19
  I'm Jessica and this is Teba K Rambles where a couple of
• 0:21
  friends review Korean dramas and we got a doozy for y'all today.
• 0:27
  OK, we, me and my guests are going to be reviewing that
• 0:31
  winter the wind blows. For this episode, I am joined by
• 0:35
  my good friend Naz from the Swoon Diaries podcast.
• 0:38
  Naz, how are you? I'm doing so good.
• 0:42
  I'm so happy to be back. It's been a very long time.
• 0:45
  It's been too long. So I'm very happy to be back to
• 0:48
  review the show with you. It has been too long.
• 0:51
  I love having you on. The last time you were on was
• 0:53
  for Train to Pusan. That was last year for Spooky
• 0:56
  season and then before that you were on for Autumn in My Heart,
• 1:00
  which is another Songhek Yo show.
• 1:03
  A classic, classic K drama from the year 2000.
• 1:08
  So yes, only a 25 year old show, but we got another I I have
• 1:16
  crazy eyes. Like I don't even know how to
• 1:17
  describe the show. It's absolutely bonkers.
• 1:20
  But we're we're going to talk about it before we do.
• 1:23
  I just want to do a quick K catch up with you.
• 1:25
  What have you been up to? What are you currently watching?
• 1:29
  Yes, so the last few months I haven't really been able to
• 1:32
  watch a ton. So literally this past week or
• 1:35
  so, I've just been watching this show that went to the Wind
• 1:38
  Blows. Yeah, but I have checked out The
• 1:41
  Winning Try, which is a new drama that came out maybe like 3
• 1:43
  weeks ago or 4 weeks ago, and I'm liking it so far.
• 1:47
  I'm still on episode 1, but that's what I plan on like
• 1:49
  committing to. And I am looking forward to a
• 1:51
  few of the September dramas that are coming, like the new Kim
• 1:54
  Gowan drama that's coming. I'm really looking forward to
• 1:57
  that one. So I'm looking forward to like
• 1:58
  getting back into like, you know, the swing of things.
• 2:01
  Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
• 2:03
  And for those who don't know, there was big news that was on
• 2:07
  The Swoon Diaries podcast. So you are back up to not just
• 2:13
  having a Co host. You have two Co hosts now.
• 2:15
  So I cannot wait for your new season to roll back around and
• 2:20
  have all three of you cannot wait.
• 2:23
  Yes, no, I'm super, super excited.
• 2:26
  I'm just like we've been, we've been like constantly talking and
• 2:28
  planning and I'm just, I'm really, really excited.
• 2:32
  Yeah. And Ori and Keela are just the
• 2:34
  best. So I'm very, very excited for,
• 2:35
  like, the new season and all the laughs and all the fun and all
• 2:38
  the shows we're gonna do. So yeah, thank you so much.
• 2:40
  Thank you for being excited. I'm excited anyway.
• 2:43
  We're going to talk about a 2013 K drama that winter the wind
• 2:49
  blows. But before we do, if this is
• 2:51
  your first time listening, go ahead and subscribe on your
• 2:53
  favorite podcast app. We're on Apple Podcasts,
• 2:55
  Spotify, Google Podcast, and many more.
• 2:57
  And if you like us, please give us a five star review on Apple
• 2:59
  Podcasts and Spotify. That goes such a long way.
• 3:02
  Come and check us out on social media to stay up to date on our
• 3:04
  latest episodes and reviews. You can find us on Facebook,
• 3:07
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• 3:13
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• 3:15
  patron. It's a great way for you to get
• 3:16
  involved. Ensure your support.
• 3:18
  You can check out the page on patreon.com/debakpod and shout
• 3:22
  out to our patrons Curtis, CD, Alana, Lorna, Sami, Julia #1,
• 3:26
  Kaitlyn, Tanmayy, Martel, Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Pam,
• 3:29
  Julia #2, Nadira, Primal Toaster, and Laura.
• 3:32
  Thank you guys for being patient.
• 3:35
  OK, that winter the wind blows. So I was having a full on crash
• 3:39
  out before we got started recording because Full
• 3:43
  disclosure. Full disclosure, 9 times out of
• 3:45
  10 I watched the show or rewatched the show to review the
• 3:50
  show for the podcast. And in this case I rewatched 6
• 3:54
  episodes of that Wind to the Wind Blows and then had a full
• 3:58
  week of things that got in the way of watching the show.
• 4:03
  Like my birthday was this week so I was out and about.
• 4:07
  I had I. Believed a birthday.
• 4:09
  You. That's so sweet but yeah, I had
• 4:11
  a lot of things going on this week and I just couldn't watch.
• 4:14
  Plus like another recording. So it was just like my after
• 4:18
  school hours basically we're all booked up and I couldn't
• 4:20
  rewatch. So what I did was I went on
• 4:23
  drama beans and read the recaps because this is a rewatch.
• 4:25
  So I feel comfortable doing this.
• 4:27
  And I have to say what the actual fuck.
• 4:30
  Like this show, I forgot a lot of it.
• 4:34
  And also in rereading and and looking at some of the screen
• 4:36
  caps, I was like, oh damn, that's right.
• 4:39
  Like this shit went down and it was absolutely nuts.
• 4:43
  And so I was reading the last of the final episode with you
• 4:49
  before we start recording, and again, I was crashing out.
• 4:53
  I was like, Oh my God. And.
• 4:56
  So what is this? What is this?
• 4:59
  We're going to have we're going to have to talk about it, but we
• 5:02
  have to introduce people to the concept of that winter.
• 5:05
  The wind blows in this non spoiler section.
• 5:07
  So here we go. I'm going to start this off with
• 5:08
  the MDL synopsis. Abandoned by his mother as a
• 5:12
  child and raised by the Puck family.
• 5:15
  Also is a notorious gambler in the neighborhood of Chongdam.
• 5:19
  After the death of his first love, he is left heartbroken and
• 5:22
  cold, not caring about anybody else.
• 5:25
  Sue is then thrown into prison following the unexpected death
• 5:28
  of his friend who shares his name.
• 5:31
  Okay, a year later, Sue, it's like not It's the one of the
• 5:37
  worst summaries of a drama so bad.
• 5:40
  A year later, Sue meets lawyer Jiang Sung, who came looking for
• 5:45
  the deceased Oh Sue, the heir of PL. group.
• 5:48
  When he is given three months to pay or die, Sue uses this
• 5:52
  opportunity to con the last remaining heir of the PL. group,
• 5:56
  all Young, to pay his debt. While pretending to be the
• 6:01
  deceased brother who was separated from his sister after
• 6:05
  their parents divorce, Sue starts falling in love with the
• 6:08
  blind Oh Young. Okay so this is a horribly told
• 6:12
  story but basically also is a notorious gambler from Chong
• 6:17
  Dong Dong that neighborhood in Kangnam and he is heartbroken
• 6:23
  and cold, not caring for anybody else.
• 6:25
  He gets framed for embezzling money from another gangster and
• 6:30
  gets thrown into prison. On the day that he gets caught
• 6:34
  by police, his friend who bears the same name as him, another
• 6:39
  old sue dies. So that old sue that died ends
• 6:45
  up being the actual table air of PL. group and PL. group actually
• 6:56
  it really doesn't matter. But like the air that they have
• 6:58
  now is the blind O young. O SU and O Young are brother and
• 7:05
  sister separated. The guy that died and O SU when
• 7:09
  he gets out of prison is like I'm going to con the blind
• 7:14
  heiress O Young to pay off this debt that I still have.
• 7:20
  Yep. OK, I hope that helps clear that
• 7:23
  up because this is honestly they should be prosecuted for this
• 7:27
  MDL synopsis. No, but actually it's really
• 7:30
  bad. It's really bad.
• 7:31
  Like one of the worst ones. Yeah.
• 7:34
  And I thought the Asian Wiki synopsis was pretty bad too.
• 7:37
  I was giving that one. I was like this.
• 7:38
  Is horrible. Anyway, the series is actually
• 7:41
  based on the 2002 Japanese drama series Forget Love and was
• 7:47
  previously adapted into the 2006 Korean film Love Me Not So
• 7:53
  Popular Story. Yeah, this aired from February
• 7:58
  to April 2013. And I will give you, as I do
• 8:02
  with most pre 2015 K dramas, a little bit of what's going on in
• 8:09
  the release year. 2013 was the year of the Boston Marathon
• 8:13
  bombing. Lance Armstrong admits to doping
• 8:17
  in all seven of his Tour de France victories.
• 8:20
  House of Cards, the Netflix show was released that starred,
• 8:25
  obviously, Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright.
• 8:29
  Jennifer Lawrence won her Oscar for Silver Linings Playbook this
• 8:32
  year. Wow.
• 8:33
  That wasn't 2013. That's.
• 8:34
  Crazy, Yes. Justin Timberlake released his
• 8:37
  third studio album, The 2020 Experience.
• 8:39
  I love this album. So good.
• 8:43
  He's like, yeah, come on, that's a 10 out of 10 album.
• 8:48
  So good. Or 20 out of 20.
• 8:51
  Anyway, my My Chemical Romance broke up in 2013.
• 8:58
  Ariana Grande's first single, The Way, is released.
• 9:01
  Wow, a couple of movies that were the highest grossing movies
• 9:08
  in 2013. The Hunger Games Catching Fire.
• 9:11
  Yes, that's my favorite. I know that's the best one
• 9:14
  Number one movie of the year. Iron Man Three.
• 9:16
  Wow, Frozen, the first Frozen, Man of Steel.
• 9:21
  Gravity. How about this?
• 9:23
  Fast and Furious 6. And they're still going.
• 9:27
  They're still going. For now, like what, 910, right?
• 9:32
  So yeah, that's a little year in review for 2013.
• 9:37
  This show, that winter the Wind Blows is 16 episodes long and
• 9:40
  it's directed by Kim Kyute. We have covered extensively a
• 9:44
  lot of Kim Kyute dramas on the Tabak feed.
• 9:47
  We've covered The Trunk, Our Blues, Moon Lovers, Scarlet
• 9:51
  Heart, Rio. It's all right, This is Love,
• 9:54
  and now this is another drama of Kim Kitae that we're adding to
• 9:58
  the mix. But he did end up winning a Best
• 10:02
  Director Pixong award for his work on That Winter The Wind
• 10:07
  Blows. Wait, stop.
• 10:09
  I kid you. Wait.
• 10:10
  I'm not trying to be. Wait, Wait What?
• 10:12
  He. Won Best Director at the Pixong
• 10:15
  Awards at the 49th Pixong Awards for that winter.
• 10:20
  The wind blows. Wow.
• 10:22
  OK, let that sink in. Let that sink in.
• 10:29
  This show was written by Nohi Kyung and she has been AK drama
• 10:36
  screenwriter since the 90s. OK, She's like the old guard.
• 10:39
  She is still writing shows to this day.
• 10:43
  She's worked with this director many times.
• 10:46
  Our Blues. She's written.
• 10:48
  She's written. It's all right.
• 10:49
  This is Love 10 out of 10 show. I love that show and Padam Padam
• 10:56
  Worlds Within Dear My Friends Live.
• 10:58
  All of these are collaborations with the director Kim Kite.
• 11:02
  She won a Peck song not for That Winter The Wind Blows, but for
• 11:06
  Dear My Friends from 2016. Yeah, I've heard that drama was
• 11:10
  really, really good. Yeah, I'd like to like.
• 11:12
  So seems like it seems like this duo, they they like Joe and
• 11:15
  Sung, they like Kim Bom. They like it's a song, a kyo.
• 11:19
  Yes, yes, and it's it's interesting because like I was
• 11:22
  like, I just don't know how you go from like writing this to
• 11:25
  like our Blues, which I think is one of like the best dramas
• 11:28
  ever. I just.
• 11:29
  You could. They're talented.
• 11:32
  Yes, very talented. Both of them so this show.
• 11:37
  I'm puzzled. I'm Yeah, it's a little.
• 11:39
  Bit back when, But anyway, Cho and Sung plays OSU, the male
• 11:44
  lead. You know, he's been in moving
• 11:47
  most recently. We already talked about it's all
• 11:49
  right, this is love. I love him as an actor and I
• 11:54
  love him his presence in shows and stuff like that.
• 11:59
  But talk to me about your experience with Toin Sung and
• 12:03
  him in the show in particular. OK so this is my first Chun Song
• 12:08
  show. OK.
• 12:10
  Yeah, I've seen like half of It's OK That's Love, which I
• 12:14
  might go back to at some point. But yeah, obviously he's very
• 12:18
  handsome, very talented. I have to say, though, something
• 12:22
  that I was really struggling with for this show is that I,
• 12:27
  oh, I don't like to say these because it feels mean, but I say
• 12:31
  it. His acting performance, I, it
• 12:34
  wasn't, it wasn't great. I was really kind of thrown off
• 12:38
  by a lot of the choices he made, especially in the show.
• 12:42
  He's kind of attacked a lot, beating up a lot, things like
• 12:44
  that. And the way that he was acting
• 12:47
  in those scenes, I was like, oh, like, I just, it made me.
• 12:50
  It just made me uncomfortable. I was like, oh this is rough.
• 12:53
  It felt like he was playing to the last seat in the house.
• 12:57
  You know what I'm saying? Like it was a very over the top
• 13:01
  theatrical performance. And exactly.
• 13:05
  It's not that it's, I don't want to say it's bad.
• 13:09
  It's just not how we like acting performances, at least not
• 13:15
  anymore. Right, Right.
• 13:18
  So it feels like it's of a time. And I will say he is an
• 13:24
  interesting crier. Yes, absolutely.
• 13:28
  He makes interesting noises that Yes, yes, that.
• 13:32
  Are not flattering at all, and some of the faces that he makes
• 13:37
  are not very flattering. Nope.
• 13:39
  And he's not afraid to look ridiculous.
• 13:42
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 13:44
  And it threw me off. You should see something
• 13:50
  happened in Bali. I mean, I'm not condoning that
• 13:52
  show at all. It is.
• 13:53
  I need to watch that one. No, because it sounds bananas.
• 13:56
  It is bananas. If you thought this was bananas,
• 13:58
  Oh my God, it's not. Doesn't hold the candle to
• 14:02
  something happened in Bali's. That one's really, that one's
• 14:05
  rough. And I have this like, I don't
• 14:08
  know, 4 second clip that I have held onto for many years of him
• 14:13
  crying and something happened in Bali because it sounds like, I
• 14:20
  don't know, maybe an animal or something.
• 14:22
  It just doesn't sound right. And I cherished that video that
• 14:34
  I've taken. It's like it's so I have such.
• 14:38
  I was because I was like what the fuck?
• 14:40
  Is he doing? And there's a lot of that
• 14:45
  sentiment carrying through into that winter.
• 14:49
  The wind blows. Yes, yes.
• 14:52
  Which is 10 years later, 10 years after something happened
• 14:56
  in Bali that winter, The Wind Blows is released.
• 15:01
  You know, nine years later, basically he's good and he's
• 15:05
  bad. Yeah, exactly.
• 15:07
  Because like, I'm not going to say he's a bad actor, but some
• 15:09
  of his his choices he made. Like he's.
• 15:12
  Got his really confused to me, you know?
• 15:14
  What he was doing a lot and that went to the Wimbles.
• 15:16
  He was like mouth breathing. Yes.
• 15:19
  Like, yeah, mouth is a jar. Yes, exactly.
• 15:24
  I'm like, why are you doing? That hanging his his jaw a lot,
• 15:27
  yes, to show frustration, rage, just emotions.
• 15:36
  And that's not something, that's not a choice that a lot of
• 15:39
  actors make. Exactly.
• 15:41
  And also when he would make his eyes pop out of his head.
• 15:44
  Yeah, yeah, It was just, it was just a lot.
• 15:48
  And I was like, I, I was like, I know you can do better than
• 15:49
  this. Like what is going on?
• 15:51
  I yeah, it was very. And it's not, it's not something
• 15:55
  that I think you would see in Korean cinema.
• 15:59
  Like this is a unique K drama thing because I've seen him in
• 16:04
  movies, he doesn't do all that. So.
• 16:08
  I honestly feel like these these are choices that he's making
• 16:11
  alongside the director and I guess they think it's it's
• 16:17
  necessary or warranted for the character, for the story, for
• 16:20
  the vibe that they're going for. And if you don't like it, you
• 16:24
  don't like it. Yeah, that's that.
• 16:26
  Yeah. And that's the thing that seemed
• 16:28
  interesting about it, because to your point, it's like it seemed
• 16:30
  like these are very conscious choices he was making.
• 16:33
  And I'm like, no, this is not the choice he should be making.
• 16:37
  There was nothing subtle about the performance.
• 16:40
  No, never subtle. There was nothing subtle about
• 16:44
  this performance. And I thought that was fun.
• 16:47
  Like, I don't know. It was fun to go back to it
• 16:50
  because like I said, I watched the 1st 6 episodes and you, I
• 16:53
  mean, you get all of this even in the 1st 6 episodes.
• 16:57
  Never mind when the stakes start getting ratcheted up in the last
• 17:01
  few episodes and it starts going haywire.
• 17:04
  Yep. So Hank, you plays all young,
• 17:07
  the female lead, she is the blind heiress that he is trying
• 17:10
  to scam. So we've covered a few of her
• 17:15
  dramas as well. We've covered Full House, it's
• 17:17
  Descendants of the Sun, The Glory, Autumn in my heart.
• 17:21
  How can I forget? Yes, she is a staple in K
• 17:27
  dramas. She is very well known, been
• 17:29
  famous a long time and she's worked, you know, with this
• 17:34
  directing writing duo before with Worlds Within.
• 17:39
  This is an interesting role for her.
• 17:41
  Yeah. How did you feel about seeing
• 17:44
  Song Akio in that winter? The wind blows.
• 17:49
  First of all, I love her. I think.
• 17:51
  I honestly think performance was really solid in the show.
• 17:54
  I think she did a really great job.
• 17:56
  It was kind of the one thing I was hanging on to, honestly,
• 18:00
  this only thing I had to hang on to for the whole show.
• 18:02
  But I, I thought that she did a, a good job in it.
• 18:05
  I think that you know her. I'm sure it must been difficult
• 18:08
  playing someone who was blind. And I think that she did a
• 18:12
  really great job. And I, I liked how throughout
• 18:15
  the show you kind of see her go from this, like, cold, very
• 18:18
  closed off person to when she starts to open up and like, she
• 18:22
  has joy in her life again because she thinks she's found
• 18:24
  her brother again. So it was nice to see.
• 18:27
  Yeah, it was nice to see, you know, that kind of how she like,
• 18:31
  you know, evolved throughout the show.
• 18:33
  So I thought her performance was, was was good.
• 18:36
  Yeah. What do you think?
• 18:38
  I agree. I like her in this.
• 18:41
  It's, I mean, it gets really unhinged.
• 18:43
  Everybody's really, yes, a lot of people.
• 18:46
  Here's what I'll say. A lot of people hate realistic K
• 18:52
  dramas. They don't like when the endings
• 18:56
  are real, when it's too too real.
• 19:01
  Usually when it's a bad ending an unhappy.
• 19:03
  Ending I should say, right, Right.
• 19:05
  They pull out well. I'm not watching K dramas for
• 19:08
  realism. I get realism in my day-to-day
• 19:10
  life. I want to escape.
• 19:12
  I want to watch pretty people fall in love.
• 19:14
  Whatever, whatever to that effect.
• 19:17
  This should be right up your alley.
• 19:18
  Yeah. There's nothing believable that
• 19:21
  you like. I'm like, these people don't.
• 19:23
  Exist. Nothing.
• 19:24
  Yeah, nothing at all believable about this situation.
• 19:29
  This is preposterous. Yeah.
• 19:31
  This is ridiculous. Preposterous.
• 19:32
  These people are acting crazy. Yeah.
• 19:38
  This scenario is the stuff of nightmares.
• 19:43
  Yes. And, and the way that they're
• 19:45
  acting is completely over the top.
• 19:48
  Yes, any scenario that you're like, OK, a normal person will
• 19:52
  come at it like this. They they swerve, they don't
• 19:54
  come at it like that. They don't react in proper ways,
• 19:57
  in healthy ways at all. And that's the appeal, I have to
• 20:02
  say, like that's the appeal of watching this.
• 20:04
  Yeah, I agree. Is that it is unhinged.
• 20:07
  It is ludicrous. Like, I don't think that someone
• 20:13
  who's been fed on like 2019 and current K dramas can maybe
• 20:20
  metabolize something like this easily.
• 20:31
  So with that being said, oh, we forgot to mention a couple of
• 20:34
  other people. So Kimbohm, you know, one of the
• 20:37
  members of F4I think he was in Tale, the 9 tale.
• 20:40
  That's where a lot of people saw him again for the for the first
• 20:44
  time maybe in a long time. King Bong plays Gene Song, he's
• 20:47
  like a sidekick character. Jung Ng plays, he's on another
• 20:52
  sidekick crazy character. And she has largely been absent
• 20:57
  in a lot of K drums. She used to be more present,
• 21:00
  more trafficked in the early 2010's.
• 21:04
  Bei Chung Hong plays Heji, she is Secretary Wang, and we have a
• 21:10
  few other characters that make up this ensemble cast.
• 21:13
  But really Toy and sung and sung like he'll lead this charge.
• 21:17
  With that being said, talk to me about how you felt watching that
• 21:22
  Winter The wind blows. Did you like it?
• 21:24
  Did you hate it? You know all the things.
• 21:31
  Yeah, I I did not like this show at all at all.
• 21:33
  Like from from the very beginning, I was like, oh, wow,
• 21:37
  this is going to be rough. Yes, like after like the first
• 21:39
  two episodes I was like, oh man, I don't like this at all.
• 21:42
  So I was like, but hopefully like the the drama and the tea
• 21:45
  and the shenanigans pull me in so at least I can just laugh at
• 21:48
  it. But I just found myself being so
• 21:52
  honestly disturbed. I think that was main the main
• 21:54
  reason why I didn't enjoy this show.
• 21:56
  I was so disturbed by what was happening and I was like in no
• 22:00
  universe is this OK why is this happening?
• 22:03
  And it just really made me itch and I didn't like it.
• 22:07
  And I was like this was making me so uncomfortable.
• 22:09
  I did not like it. The acting was over the top.
• 22:12
  All the characters were annoying me.
• 22:14
  I hate being this negative. But no, keep going, keep going
• 22:17
  everyone. No, everyone was annoying.
• 22:19
  The acting was not strong, especially from our male lead
• 22:22
  and just. But I think overall, like the
• 22:25
  whole thing was just soured by how disturbed I was by the
• 22:28
  context of the story. Yeah.
• 22:30
  He's like, this is really gross and very icky and I don't like
• 22:33
  it. Yeah.
• 22:34
  So yeah, that it just made the whole thing bad.
• 22:39
  Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna argue that it's not a
• 22:42
  reprehensible story like on all facets, right?
• 22:48
  Like if you no, I asserted the other day on TikTok I was like,
• 22:57
  yeah, bring back red flag characters.
• 23:01
  Where are the morally Gray red flag male leads?
• 23:05
  They largely disappeared from K dramas.
• 23:08
  That's. True, that's very true.
• 23:11
  Is a typical red flag K drama male lead of yesteryear who is
• 23:18
  very easy and difficult to love. Like you can see all of his
• 23:24
  issues, you can see that he's working things out and it's
• 23:29
  almost just not enough like to redeem this guy.
• 23:33
  Yeah. I love those stories.
• 23:36
  Yeah. I love it.
• 23:37
  On paper, yes. On paper.
• 23:42
  In execution, this was a hot mess.
• 23:46
  Yes, yes. And so on one hand, I want to
• 23:50
  stand on my soapbox and be like, we used to be a society that
• 23:54
  gave a lot of chances, right? Yes, gave a lot of chances.
• 23:59
  We let hot guys and suspenders kind of run our emotions ragged,
• 24:06
  let them con their way into our hearts.
• 24:10
  Yeah. And then we shut out the TV and
• 24:12
  went about our lives. And now it's a whole think piece
• 24:16
  on why we shouldn't give these characters the time of day.
• 24:20
  And I'm like, give them the time of day.
• 24:22
  It's entertaining as shit. And it is.
• 24:26
  And it is. You can't even die that you're
• 24:29
  like, what the hell? It it was crazy and it was
• 24:31
  entertaining. And would you recommend it?
• 24:33
  No. But also, if you're looking for
• 24:36
  a bad good time, yeah, this is it.
• 24:39
  On the other hand, this story just gets weirder and more and
• 24:46
  more angsty, and these are emotionally fragile people
• 24:51
  trying to hang on to each other in any way, shape or form.
• 24:55
  There is entirely too much suicide ideation and like
• 25:01
  suicide thoughts, suicide attempts and flirting with death
• 25:05
  at every step of the way. Yeah.
• 25:09
  People it gets slapped a lot like the the male lead gets
• 25:12
  slapped, the female lead gets slapped multiple times, people
• 25:15
  throwing food at each other and soup getting poured on people
• 25:20
  like that is a. Hinge.
• 25:22
  It's, it's crazy. This isn't normal behavior.
• 25:25
  This isn't something you'd see in real life.
• 25:27
  I want more of that. Like, you see what I'm saying?
• 25:30
  Like, I think that there should be a balancing act between a
• 25:35
  good story, yeah, and a little crazy.
• 25:40
  Yeah, no, I agree. I think like I don't mind a red
• 25:43
  flag male lead. Like I don't mind mess.
• 25:46
  This is messy. Yeah, it's so messy.
• 25:49
  But like, I think it's it's I think in a different story, this
• 25:54
  could have worked the brother sister thing because there's
• 25:56
  really yeah. And it's like this is and
• 25:59
  literally multiple times in my notes since I was watching this
• 26:02
  show I just kept writing This is getting weird because it's
• 26:05
  incest but not. Really.
• 26:07
  Because they're not brother and sister, they're not blood
• 26:10
  related. They're not even related by any
• 26:13
  stretch, right? And so you're like, OK, but I
• 26:16
  want them to be together. I want them to understand where
• 26:19
  the other one's coming from and, and reconcile and just have
• 26:25
  beautiful babies. Yeah, but the fosest is the
• 26:29
  thing of it. Like that is the drama is that
• 26:34
  is he, is he not her brother? And it lasts for 16 episodes.
• 26:43
  Exactly. Because that's the thing that
• 26:45
  was like, OK, like at some for him, I'm just kind of like you,
• 26:49
  you have to draw the line somewhere, like you don't have
• 26:51
  any sort of like moral compass at all.
• 26:54
  And then for her. The thing is, he does because he
• 26:56
  knows it's wrong. Yeah.
• 26:58
  And he knows that he's in over his head, especially with his
• 27:02
  feelings, because he catches feelings pretty fast.
• 27:05
  Yeah, he's in over his head early on in the show.
• 27:09
  They still they still go through with the deception and still
• 27:13
  don't clear the air and. For way too long.
• 27:16
  For so long, really disturbing. And I was like this is so weird.
• 27:19
  It is. It is.
• 27:21
  And there's a lot of trust between characters that don't
• 27:26
  deserve trust. Or yeah, like the Secretary Wang
• 27:30
  character. I'm like, that's a bitch right
• 27:32
  there. Like why would you still keep
• 27:36
  her in the mix and have her take care of our blind heiress?
• 27:40
  And because, and we're not going to spoil like why?
• 27:43
  She's untrustworthy but I can't wait to talk about her because I
• 27:47
  I what, what make it make sense? I just don't understand.
• 27:53
  I think I like the show best when it handles kind of the
• 27:57
  dichotomy between our two leads of ideas of life and death.
• 28:02
  Yeah, why should you want to live?
• 28:06
  And that, I think, is powerful, especially considering, and I've
• 28:09
  said this in other podcast episodes, they are not
• 28:11
  therapizing anything, right? They're not calling suicide
• 28:15
  watch a suicide watch. They're not therapizing
• 28:19
  anything. They're not saying you're
• 28:20
  depressed. They're not saying you need
• 28:22
  therapy. They're not saying nothing is.
• 28:25
  Nope. Therapized.
• 28:28
  These are deeply disturbed people.
• 28:31
  Yes. And they just leave them like
• 28:32
  that. The whole show.
• 28:34
  Yep. No help.
• 28:35
  No help whatsoever. And that's gonna bother you in
• 28:38
  the year 2025? That's gonna bother you?
• 28:41
  Yep. Absolutely.
• 28:44
  But in 2013 or back when I watched it, which was like 10
• 28:48
  years ago, I was like, this is fucked.
• 28:52
  When's the next episode? Like I don't know how to tell
• 28:54
  you, but like I understand times have changed, but this was how
• 28:59
  it was. Also, is that like nobody was
• 29:01
  saying, hey, you should get some help, you're depressed, you
• 29:05
  should get some help, you don't want to live anymore?
• 29:08
  Yeah. You know, there's no guardrails
• 29:12
  up on the show. Not at all.
• 29:14
  Not at all. And that might irritate you.
• 29:19
  And I know that it irritated you, Nez.
• 29:22
  It did, it really did. Cuz I'm just like, these people,
• 29:25
  are they, they really need help. And like, we have like, these,
• 29:28
  you know, these suicidal ideations and attempts
• 29:31
  throughout the show. And it's just like, oh, oh, OK.
• 29:34
  What do they do? They slap them through.
• 29:35
  They literally lay hands on these people.
• 29:38
  And I'm just like, that's how we're going to dress the root.
• 29:41
  Not at all. I just drove me crazy.
• 29:44
  I, I don't like it when shows incorporate these, you know,
• 29:49
  depression is suicide and you don't plan on like really doing
• 29:53
  anything about it to like address the root issue or help
• 29:55
  them or anything. Yep.
• 29:57
  Yeah, it's just a mess. A mess.
• 29:59
  It's a mess. So if that's something that you
• 30:02
  know is gonna trigger you, then don't watch.
• 30:06
  Yeah, just don't watch. It's not gonna do you any
• 30:09
  favors. Nope.
• 30:11
  The and as I'm trying to like broach the subject but we're
• 30:17
  still in the non spoiler section right?
• 30:19
  How did you feel about the ending?
• 30:23
  The ending without spoiling I didn't care like looks like I
• 30:30
  just I I felt nothing about this couple their romance nothing.
• 30:36
  I was like this is I I literally felt nothing.
• 30:39
  I was happy that she in of herself was like, OK, but like I
• 30:45
  as far as a relationship and everything happy ever after I
• 30:49
  was I was like, I don't care about this because yeah, I just
• 30:54
  could not. I was not drawn to them as a
• 30:56
  couple at all like. That so you didn't like it from
• 31:00
  junk? From episode 1, From the
• 31:01
  beginning. OK, absolutely not.
• 31:03
  Because I will say that I thought the first few episodes I
• 31:07
  was like, damn, hot dog, like this is crazy, but at least
• 31:11
  we're cooking with oil. And then like around episode
• 31:18
  like 5-6, I was like, what is what even?
• 31:23
  And then in reading the rest, I was like, this is worse than I
• 31:27
  remember. This is way worse than I
• 31:28
  remember. Because what I was left with
• 31:30
  after my first watch was a lot of wow.
• 31:33
  And then I moved on and then I moved on right, and then I'm
• 31:40
  just left with wow, remember that show with towing song and
• 31:44
  he's trying to scam song Akio, who's playing a blind heiress.
• 31:50
  That's what I'm left with, my gosh.
• 31:51
  Instead of all of the minutiae of what happens in the show and
• 31:58
  the slaps and the suicide stuff and the yeah, he's just bad and
• 32:04
  good and right, bad and then worse, and then good and good.
• 32:07
  And then he's very tender with her and then he's like, slapping
• 32:11
  her because she's trying to commit suicide offense.
• 32:13
  None of that was left. None of that.
• 32:16
  No, but then she has issues too. She has so many things that she
• 32:21
  needs to work out. Yeah.
• 32:23
  Unaddressed. Unaddressed.
• 32:25
  A lot of childhood trauma from being abandoned.
• 32:29
  Yes. We never go into like why the
• 32:31
  mom actually never went back. Yeah, there was no closure about
• 32:35
  that, no. Closure about why the mom
• 32:37
  actually never went to visit her.
• 32:39
  Yeah, both. Like you hear your child is sick
• 32:42
  and you're like shoulder shrug like I don't, I don't
• 32:44
  understand. I don't get it.
• 32:46
  I don't get it. It's a lot of unanswered
• 32:48
  questions as far as what the hell were those family dynamics
• 32:51
  before the fake OSU comes in and tries to scam her.
• 32:56
  But at the same time, there's a lot of this show was spoofed on
• 32:59
  SNL, on the Korea SNL was it? Yeah, this show entered the
• 33:04
  zeitgeist. This is definitely like a great
• 33:08
  show to spoof, right? What exactly that's?
• 33:11
  Also, like, kind of why I like it as well as that I like it as
• 33:15
  a touch point. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:17
  Like, remember that crazy show? Almost like something happened
• 33:21
  in Bali where I'm like, this show is crazy to me, but let's
• 33:25
  talk about that. Yeah, but you're, but you're
• 33:28
  happy that you watched it and you're like, OK, I have it under
• 33:30
  my belt. Yes, exactly.
• 33:33
  And that's a hard feeling because I don't hate it.
• 33:36
  Yeah, even though I do dislike it, Yeah.
• 33:39
  I give no. I feel that though.
• 33:41
  That makes sense, yeah. There's some shows where I watch
• 33:43
  it. I'm like, I hate it and I'll
• 33:45
  never recommend it. And you know, it's it's madding
• 33:48
  to me. This one is not one of those.
• 33:50
  Yeah, because it's like a chaotic good time.
• 33:52
  Yeah, Yeah. OK, I'll give you 1 fun fact
• 33:59
  which has to do with like the filming style and then we'll go
• 34:04
  to our ratings, which I can already guess which you're going
• 34:07
  to rate this out of five central bottles and then we'll get into
• 34:09
  the non spoiler section. So the one fun fact I have is
• 34:12
  that director Kim Kitae utilized a lot of ultra close up shots to
• 34:17
  sure did. Oh yes, he did.
• 34:19
  To highlight the character's emotions and accentuate the
• 34:22
  smallest movement in the actor's faces or expression in their
• 34:26
  eyes. Cinematographer and visual
• 34:29
  director Kim Tong Sok said such visual techniques differentiated
• 34:33
  the show from the standard set by existing Korean dramas, which
• 34:37
  usually resort to medium shots or bus shots.
• 34:40
  To produce such detailed shots, the crew used expensive high def
• 34:44
  Alexa Plus cameras known for their rich color and high speed
• 34:47
  cinematography. Lighting director Pakwan also
• 34:51
  employed twice as much lighting equipment as do other dramas.
• 34:54
  Another technique that crew used was post production correction,
• 34:59
  which was possible because when the first episode aired, eight
• 35:02
  were already taped, Pak said. It's both my and Kim's
• 35:06
  philosophy that the actress should look beautiful even when
• 35:09
  she is wailing, which tells me they did a lot of post
• 35:13
  production correction on Somakio's face to make her look
• 35:17
  beautiful at all times. Yes, absolutely.
• 35:20
  A lot of crying, a lot of wailing.
• 35:22
  A lot of crying, a lot of screwing up the face.
• 35:26
  Yeah. Anyway, how many soju bottles
• 35:30
  would you give that winter the wind flows.
• 35:35
  Unfortunately, I have to give it one Soji bottle because I did
• 35:38
  not enjoy the show at all. I suffered, I really did, and I
• 35:43
  was looking forward to a chaotic good time.
• 35:44
  I was like, you know what, this is gonna be wild, but I'm
• 35:47
  excited for the tea and the drama.
• 35:49
  But I was just so disturbed the entire time and again, just the
• 35:54
  over the top acting was just a lot and just a lot of
• 35:59
  unexplained things that you mentioned, like the mom, I think
• 36:01
  secretary Wang that situation. I'm very unsatisfied with that
• 36:05
  as well. Unsatisfied with a lot of
• 36:07
  things. So I was like, there's nothing
• 36:09
  about this drama that I enjoyed and I wouldn't recommend it to
• 36:13
  anyone unless they're fine with, you know, I mean, this drama is
• 36:17
  really a product of its time and like, but I I don't mind older
• 36:20
  dramas like I loved on in my heart.
• 36:21
  I love winter Sonata. I like, I love those drama was
• 36:24
  like even like we did summer scent like that drama is not
• 36:27
  great, but like I enjoyed it for what it was, you know, like I
• 36:31
  was like this isn't perfect, but like, you know, if I had to, I'd
• 36:34
  watch it again. But like this I was like
• 36:36
  absolutely not get it far away from me.
• 36:39
  I wanted to like it, but I just could not.
• 36:43
  I would give it see. I would not give it four or
• 36:50
  five, obviously, but I'm teetering between 2 1/2 or three
• 36:54
  and I feel like 3 is too much, so I'm gonna because I anyway, 2
• 37:02
  1/2. Yeah, Soldier bottles is below
• 37:05
  average. Yeah, because it's below
• 37:07
  average. But it lives on in my
• 37:11
  consciousness in, you know, my estimations of what AK drama
• 37:17
  can't like. The score I thought was
• 37:20
  something that I missed in K dramas.
• 37:23
  They had this like classical music score and it sounds like
• 37:28
  how I expect K dramas to sound. It is not trendy, it's not
• 37:33
  western. It's overly sentimental, very
• 37:36
  classic sounding, almost sounds like a music box, that type of
• 37:41
  melody. Yeah.
• 37:43
  Call me crazy, that's what AK drama's supposed to say.
• 37:46
  Like I I think that there were elements of it that you just
• 37:49
  don't see any more that made me nostalgic for earlier K dramas.
• 37:55
  And there's things that have gone out of fashion, like the
• 37:58
  incest or Fosest. Yeah.
• 38:01
  There was a lot more of that in K dramas.
• 38:03
  They don't do that anymore. Right, right.
• 38:06
  So people aren't used to it, right?
• 38:09
  Right. No, like, no, I feel you.
• 38:11
  It was very angsty, which I love.
• 38:13
  But then again, there's a lot of just plot things that don't make
• 38:19
  any sense. Nope.
• 38:20
  No sense whatsoever. Yeah.
• 38:22
  So 2 1/2 is where I'm going to land.
• 38:25
  And to piggyback off what you were saying about the score and
• 38:27
  everything, if I had to say there was something that I
• 38:30
  enjoyed, like that opening number, the opening song he was
• 38:35
  singing. I I loved the OSD.
• 38:37
  It was great. Like, one thing that I was like,
• 38:39
  I like the music. And it feels like, like you
• 38:41
  said, nostalgic. And I like that.
• 38:44
  Yeah. But yeah, there's just so many
• 38:46
  things that I was like, oh man. Yeah, I had this is a tangent,
• 38:53
  but I watched this movie. I think it was in 2018 or 29,
• 38:57
  not 2019, probably 2018 called Serenity and it was with Matthew
• 39:03
  McConaughey and Anne Hathaway. Which you think?
• 39:08
  Matthew McConaughey, Anne Hathaway.
• 39:10
  This should be like a really good movie.
• 39:12
  Girl, that movie was shit. It was so awful and I had such a
• 39:18
  blast watching it because it was so stupid.
• 39:23
  It was so. Stupid to watch a bad movie and
• 39:25
  that's. What this was it?
• 39:28
  It was bad, but at least I got a laugh out of it, right?
• 39:34
  Take from that what you will. We are going to talk more in the
• 39:38
  spoiler section right after this.
• 39:41
  Excuse me, Bora, go. I can't tell.
• 39:44
  I can't tell you know. I have no tingle.
• 39:48
  Oh, sorry, swear. Discussing shit.
• 39:52
  What? All right, we're on the other
• 39:57
  side of spoilers, so we're going to spoil what the hell is going
• 40:01
  on in that Winter the Wind Blows.
• 40:04
  And I guess we got to start with, let's start with Secretary
• 40:08
  Wang, because throughout the show there is a question of is
• 40:14
  she a good or is she a bad character?
• 40:16
  And The thing is, she's both. She's both.
• 40:20
  Everybody is good and bad, and every single character is good
• 40:23
  and bad. And that's going to suck for a
• 40:25
  lot of people who want to keep. Their people straight, like
• 40:28
  their characters straight and Secretary Wang is really hard to
• 40:32
  pin down. They kept you guessing
• 40:35
  throughout the show. Is she a villain?
• 40:38
  Is she sincere toward Young? I would love to know your
• 40:42
  thoughts on her because it turns out that she's the one who made
• 40:47
  her blind. She kept her blind.
• 40:50
  And I remember re watching like the first few episodes and I was
• 40:54
  like Oh my God right much house on my proxy.
• 40:57
  Yes. Because and then nobody says
• 41:00
  this in the show. Yeah.
• 41:01
  Talk to me about Secretary Wang and how you encountered this
• 41:05
  character. Yeah, throughout the whole show
• 41:08
  I'm really wondering, OK, is this woman just really she does
• 41:12
  she really genuinely want to be a mother to young and genuinely
• 41:15
  loves her. She clearly she's been loyal to
• 41:17
  her all these years and has she actually does take care of her,
• 41:20
  make sure she's fed, clothed all these things helps with her
• 41:23
  day-to-day tasks. But also it's sounding like she
• 41:26
  didn't get her treated on purpose and like they were kind
• 41:29
  of going back and forth throughout the show.
• 41:31
  And so when the truth comes out that she actually was the one
• 41:35
  that caused the blindness by not getting her, I think they called
• 41:38
  it was it? It was something pigmentosa
• 41:41
  retina something. But yeah.
• 41:44
  And I was just like, OK, why would you do that?
• 41:45
  And she's like, oh, I just, I just wanted Young to need me.
• 41:48
  And then it was really infuriating at the end when
• 41:54
  Secretary Wegg is still in the picture and she's like this mom
• 41:57
  figure to Young and Young finally kind of accepts her into
• 42:00
  her life, fully into her heart. And I'm just kind of like, oh,
• 42:04
  so are you saying that it's OK what Secretary Wang did because
• 42:07
  she's like, still doing the right thing and still taking
• 42:10
  care of you? Like, are we just going to gloss
• 42:12
  over the fact that you're blind because of this woman?
• 42:15
  And I was like, wait, is everyone just going to be OK
• 42:17
  with this? I just could not understand
• 42:19
  that. I was like, she's literally the
• 42:20
  reason why you're blind and we're just going to be 1 big
• 42:22
  happy family now. I was like what is this?
• 42:27
  Yeah, so she denied getting her the help that she needed, and
• 42:34
  then it turns into she's blind. It exasperates her condition and
• 42:39
  her symptoms. I said Munchausen, my proxy, and
• 42:41
  it. That's not exactly the case.
• 42:43
  Munchausen, my proxy, is when the caregiver makes up or
• 42:49
  induces illness in a person under their care to gain
• 42:51
  attention, sympathy or praise for their devotion.
• 42:54
  But yeah, she really was sick. Yeah.
• 42:57
  So it wasn't my child's in my proxy.
• 42:58
  I tried to look it up just now to see what exactly she was
• 43:02
  doing. Like is there a name for this?
• 43:04
  Now it's telling me malingering. The intentional and dishonest
• 43:10
  presentation of symptoms of illness for external gain, such
• 43:14
  as avoiding responsibility, financial compensation, or other
• 43:17
  personal benefits, rather than for medical treatment.
• 43:20
  I don't know. I really don't know if that's
• 43:22
  what she was doing, but it was fucked.
• 43:24
  It's terrible she kept. She wanted to feel needed, like
• 43:27
  you said in Jung's life. Probably wanted to be a mother.
• 43:32
  Yeah. And this was the only way that
• 43:35
  she felt needed and useful. And at the same time she was
• 43:39
  receiving financial compensation for being.
• 43:43
  There, right, right. She was leading this
• 43:46
  conglomerate. I guess what annoys me is not
• 43:51
  that she was this ambiguous figure.
• 43:53
  Yeah, I like the ambiguity. I'm just mad that nobody was
• 43:59
  pulling hair. Yeah, like there weren't
• 44:01
  consequences. Yeah, there were no
• 44:03
  consequences. We're just supposed to think
• 44:04
  that she's this good person. I'm like, hold on.
• 44:07
  Can we go back to the fact that, like, Young is literally blind
• 44:09
  because of this woman? You're I'll no one's gonna
• 44:11
  address that. Why are we not committing this
• 44:13
  woman? Why?
• 44:14
  Are we not stripping her of all responsibility over Young?
• 44:17
  Why are we not kicking her out of the house?
• 44:19
  Why does she still have all of this power over her?
• 44:24
  Because she's been manipulating her for years, stunting her
• 44:26
  growth emotionally and, you know, socially especially, Yeah,
• 44:31
  making her completely reliant on her.
• 44:34
  Yep. There just wasn't enough
• 44:37
  consequences done. In fact, they like bring her
• 44:39
  back into the folds so that she can take care of young like in
• 44:43
  the lab. So I was like, why?
• 44:45
  Why no consequences at all? My thing was how?
• 44:50
  And maybe there was an answer that I didn't get in my
• 44:54
  summaries. I I forgot because I honestly I
• 44:57
  forgot like the nitty gritty, the details.
• 45:01
  But what the hell was up with her and the fiance?
• 45:04
  Secretary Wang and the fiance. Yeah, I don't.
• 45:07
  I don't really know. They weren't to me.
• 45:09
  They weren't lovers, obviously, right?
• 45:12
  Right. But why were they in cahoots?
• 45:14
  I don't think that they really explained that very well because
• 45:17
  I'm just like, I don't really understand what's, I mean, I
• 45:20
  guess what's in it for her is that essentially if Young
• 45:23
  married that guy, then like he would, he would essentially have
• 45:26
  control and then like Intern Secretary Wang would regain
• 45:30
  control or maintain her control. So maybe that's why.
• 45:32
  But like, I don't think they really laid that out very
• 45:35
  clearly even in me watching it. Or I also they could have just
• 45:38
  wanted me been wanting to confuse us and be like, oh,
• 45:40
  she's think of who's with the fiance, she's a bad, she's a bad
• 45:42
  guy, whatever. So I've been part of that too.
• 45:45
  I thought the low point was when there was always this threat
• 45:48
  that Osu's team was going to reveal that the fiance was
• 45:53
  cheating on her, was cheating on you, had this other woman, and
• 45:57
  was just an all around asshole, which he is.
• 46:00
  But when Secretary Wang is confronted with this
• 46:03
  information, she's like, I knew about it.
• 46:06
  I knew he was philandering. I knew he always cheated on her.
• 46:09
  But what I won't stand for is you embezzling funds from the
• 46:14
  company. That's where I draw the line.
• 46:16
  I was like, oh, so it's OK to link her up with this man who's
• 46:19
  going to treat her like shit, cheat on her, doesn't love her,
• 46:22
  doesn't care for her. But what you won't stand for is
• 46:26
  him hurting the money pot. Exactly because that's what she
• 46:29
  cares about. This is the person we still have
• 46:32
  around young at the end, like I just.
• 46:34
  Hold on, because the way this Secretary Wang phrased it was #1
• 46:38
  boys were going to be boys. Of course a man is going to
• 46:40
  cheat. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 46:44
  And second of all, she also phrased his embezzling as you
• 46:47
  can't do that because that is how young lives.
• 46:52
  That's where she that's her livelihood.
• 46:55
  So you can't destroy the company because then she won't have any
• 46:58
  means to live. Yeah, it's like, you could treat
• 47:00
  her poorly, but you can't take her money.
• 47:01
  I was like, what? Which essentially is my money.
• 47:06
  Crazy. Insane.
• 47:08
  I really had such, such a hang up with Secretary Wang because
• 47:13
  there was like competing information because you knew
• 47:17
  that she cared for Young, but she was, yeah, shit.
• 47:20
  Yeah. And she didn't, she didn't have
• 47:23
  any comeuppance. There was no, no consequences at
• 47:26
  all for her. I was like, lock her up.
• 47:28
  There was nothing. And so like, when I finished the
• 47:30
  show, I was like, wait, are we supposed to think that Secretary
• 47:32
  Wang is a good person? I'm confused.
• 47:34
  Like it's not what the audience is supposed to think.
• 47:36
  Right. I was like, that's ridiculous.
• 47:39
  It was warranted because at the end of the day, she was looking
• 47:41
  out for her. No, no, no, no.
• 47:44
  She made her blind. She made her blind.
• 47:47
  Like she doesn't get a reward because she's been taking care
• 47:49
  of her all this time. The reason why she used to be
• 47:50
  saying Carol is because you made her blind.
• 47:53
  Like what? I just don't just stand like.
• 47:56
  We're I feel like we're talking in circles.
• 47:57
  We're like we can't get over it. It's yeah, it's wild.
• 48:01
  So. I'm just like, I don't
• 48:02
  understand how the characters got over it because I'm like,
• 48:04
  why is she still around? Yeah, I'll get it.
• 48:08
  The other guy that I was like, this guy is messed up too, was
• 48:11
  the villain guy. Oh.
• 48:13
  My gosh, he was the most confusing person.
• 48:17
  Wait, can we talk about how towards the end he starts to
• 48:20
  kind of change his tune a little bit?
• 48:22
  Yeah, what the hell? Like where?
• 48:24
  Like, so you've been running around threatening, terrorizing
• 48:28
  Sue this whole show, terrorizing ginseng, all these things.
• 48:31
  And then towards the end he's like, oh, I'm dying.
• 48:33
  So like maybe I should try to help them and protect them from
• 48:36
  the big bad guy? My favorite thing was that more
• 48:39
  and more people started turning up terminal right and I'm.
• 48:42
  Like he's terminal this mucho. The villain guy was First off
• 48:49
  stabbing the male lead in the first episode.
• 48:53
  Yes, just straight up Shanks him and he's like, yeah, anyway, you
• 48:57
  have three months to get the money back to Boss Man because
• 49:01
  he's he's in debt like 7.8 million won or something like
• 49:05
  that. And it's impossible for him to
• 49:08
  do it using his day job, which was gambling, right?
• 49:12
  He's basically a professional gambler.
• 49:14
  All of the clubs in town freezed him out because of Boss Man.
• 49:19
  And this other guy, the villain that we're talking about, Mucho,
• 49:22
  I'm like, how the fuck do you expect this guy to pay you back
• 49:26
  if you're cutting him off at the knees?
• 49:29
  Yeah, it just was illogical. And then, every step of the way,
• 49:32
  Mucho again was sabotaging the con.
• 49:37
  Yeah, yeah, threatening. Let him make the money back.
• 49:40
  Let him make. Shut up.
• 49:41
  Just shut up. And the whole reason for the
• 49:44
  vendetta against the male lead was because of this whole back
• 49:49
  story. Let's talk about this back
• 49:50
  story. Yeah, the back story is when the
• 49:54
  male lead was a teenager, like 1920 years old, he fell in love
• 50:00
  with another girl like neighborhood kid who was same
• 50:04
  age as him. The parents did not approve of
• 50:06
  them being together. And so instead of breaking up or
• 50:10
  waiting or, you know, trying to ingratiate himself with her
• 50:13
  family, they moved in together, started to try and live a life
• 50:20
  together. Yeah, she falls pregnant.
• 50:24
  And because also is an orphan who was abandoned under a tree
• 50:30
  in the middle of winter by his biological mother, he was
• 50:35
  freaked the hell out when she told him that she was pregnant.
• 50:40
  And he takes off on his little motorcycle on his moped and she
• 50:44
  tries to follow him on her moped.
• 50:46
  She gets rundown, completely run over and dies.
• 50:53
  OK, the villain mucho also loved this one.
• 50:57
  This girl. Yeah yeah.
• 50:59
  And gave her up. I put in air quotes to also the
• 51:06
  male lead because she doesn't want me.
• 51:09
  She wants you. I'm going to relinquish any
• 51:11
  claim on her right that I have. And you treat her nicely.
• 51:17
  Well, the abandonment when she told him that she was pregnant
• 51:21
  and her ensuing death that had nothing at all to do with him.
• 51:24
  He didn't run over himself. Literally nothing was enough for
• 51:28
  him to hold a grudge for. I want to say 11 years, double
• 51:34
  digit years because now ulsu is 30 years old and he's like, you
• 51:39
  should die, Like you should die because the girl that we both
• 51:43
  love died and she was pregnant with your baby.
• 51:46
  And that is the bad blood between them.
• 51:50
  Look, I think the first few episodes that I saw this, I was
• 51:54
  like, OK, right. Like they love the same woman
• 51:58
  and she died tragically. The fact that every character,
• 52:04
  not just mucho the sister of the deceased lover who's the
• 52:09
  sidekick that I was talking about before, the female.
• 52:11
  Yeah, her name is Hison. She annoyed the heck.
• 52:16
  Out of Oh my God, Hison Woo told these two characters.
• 52:22
  They stayed on his neck. Yeah, the entire time the.
• 52:25
  Entire show they were like you can't be happy, you can't smile,
• 52:29
  you can't look at young any certain type of way like you
• 52:33
  can't be happy at all because it's an insult to her memory.
• 52:36
  Yep. And that is just not the way
• 52:40
  that life works. It's just simply not such a
• 52:44
  toxic, weird, backward way of thinking.
• 52:47
  It is absolutely. There's no take making that away
• 52:51
  from them, obviously, like they're meant to look ridiculous
• 52:55
  for holding this against him. Exactly.
• 52:58
  Exactly. And it is a moment of growth for
• 53:01
  OSU to be like, I'm not the one to blame.
• 53:03
  I was never the one to blame for her death.
• 53:06
  Yeah. So that's a positive of the show
• 53:08
  is that he is stuck under the weight of this death and this,
• 53:14
  yes, this life that was lost so tragically.
• 53:17
  The love of his life, right? He had nothing to do with that
• 53:21
  car running or over the truck. Running.
• 53:22
  He didn't. He didn't.
• 53:24
  That was a big source of growth for him.
• 53:26
  To be like. It can't be used as a scapegoat
• 53:28
  for this, yeah. And how this grieving process
• 53:33
  has taken 10 plus years and just for him to get this far, it was
• 53:39
  because of his association and his relationship with all young
• 53:43
  yeah the female lead that he's able to like get this out.
• 53:47
  So he. Definitely has this healing arc
• 53:50
  for sure. Yeah, yeah, but mucho him saying
• 53:55
  all of a sudden I'm dying of cancer, have two months to live.
• 53:58
  I was like, where is this coming from?
• 53:59
  Where the? Hell is that Why are you on the
• 54:00
  street? Why are you up?
• 54:01
  Like what is happening? Why are you upright?
• 54:04
  You're mentally ill and you're still like walking around town
• 54:07
  terrorizing people. It doesn't make any sense.
• 54:09
  And then he's good at fighting. Right, he's still fighting.
• 54:12
  He's. Still swinging.
• 54:13
  I don't understand how he's upright and swinging and beating
• 54:17
  Ginseng, which is Keem Bom's character in In Fisticuffs.
• 54:21
  How? How you have two months left to
• 54:23
  live. Exactly, it was just baffling.
• 54:27
  Like they didn't. I wish that they had held onto a
• 54:30
  little bit of logic for some of these.
• 54:32
  It was just like. It's so confusing.
• 54:35
  It's like make him the villain or he's he's the villain or he's
• 54:36
  not the villain. And like at the end it just
• 54:39
  became so inconsistent cuz I'm like so is he trying to be good
• 54:42
  now? Is he trying to turn a new leaf?
• 54:43
  It didn't make any sense. His sister is somehow a brain
• 54:47
  surgeon, the top range surgeon, and she's like the one that has
• 54:56
  to come to her and be like, hey, operate on O Young, the doctors.
• 55:03
  This doctor's hysterical. To me.
• 55:05
  She was like, yeah, there's no hope.
• 55:07
  She always said everything with a straight face.
• 55:09
  She did you know, we shouldn't, we shouldn't operate.
• 55:11
  She. Was like, she took one look at
• 55:13
  the scan, the CT scan. She was like, yeah, she's going
• 55:15
  to die. No hope for her.
• 55:17
  I'm not going to operate on someone.
• 55:19
  She didn't even. She kind of like was the worst
• 55:23
  doctor you can think of. Yeah.
• 55:25
  Because, I mean, I don't know if you've had a family member or a
• 55:29
  friend or whoever go through treatment for cancer, but I
• 55:33
  have. And luckily, we had an
• 55:36
  oncologist who was insanely optimistic, you know, who was
• 55:42
  like, look, it's not over till it's over.
• 55:45
  Let's try this other thing. Let's do this.
• 55:46
  Let's do that. Even when the rest of the family
• 55:49
  was like, this is looking really bad.
• 55:51
  Yeah. And so to see this doctor be
• 55:55
  like, I don't enter a game I can't win.
• 55:59
  I was like, oh, thanks for the encouragement.
• 56:00
  Like what? I was like, OK bitch, at least
• 56:04
  pretend, yeah. Like it was just, I'm just
• 56:09
  shaking my head like it's bad. It's just bad.
• 56:13
  Characters on this show were something.
• 56:15
  They were something. Let's talk about this love story
• 56:18
  though, yes? So you there were no parts of
• 56:23
  the show that were compelling to you regarding their love story
• 56:27
  or their connection. Correct.
• 56:30
  Wow. Because I was so overcome with.
• 56:34
  Ick. The entire time I'm just like,
• 56:37
  OK, we start off early on and like, you know, he comes to the
• 56:40
  house. He's like, I'm Sue, I'm here.
• 56:43
  She's of course a little bit like apprehensive.
• 56:46
  But like, as they start like hanging out together and, you
• 56:48
  know, they're at the amusement park.
• 56:49
  The amusement park scene was like pretty cute, you know, or
• 56:52
  like he's like teaching. He was teaching how to do
• 56:54
  something and he like put his arms around her.
• 56:55
  And I was like, OK, that's, that's weird.
• 56:58
  I don't know. And.
• 56:59
  Wow, so you really couldn't get past the Fosest?
• 57:01
  I could not like I could not because I'm like we all know.
• 57:05
  We know the non siblings as the audience.
• 57:06
  He knows like that's not his sister, but she doesn't know
• 57:09
  that. And the way that she was acting
• 57:11
  with that man made no sense to me.
• 57:13
  I was like, this does not make to me, why are y'all spooning?
• 57:18
  Why are y'all cuddling in bed? Yeah.
• 57:20
  And it's like, if it's like, if it gets to the point that you
• 57:22
  literally have to remove yourself from the bed and lay on
• 57:25
  the floor because you were like, oh, is this too much?
• 57:28
  And then the thing that drove me crazy was the fact that when she
• 57:31
  finds out that they're not siblings, the genuine shock.
• 57:35
  I was like, I was like, Jess, I was like, how are you shocked?
• 57:38
  Like all the things, the touches and the spooning and the
• 57:41
  cuddling and all the almost kisses and you're shocked.
• 57:46
  And I'm like, I thought, I gasped myself into thinking
• 57:48
  like, OK, she has to know. Like she has to know.
• 57:51
  Like same. But I was like, oh, when she
• 57:53
  when I saw how shocked she was, I was like, oh heck no.
• 57:56
  This is so disgusting. Maybe the?
• 57:58
  Confirmation was just very shocking for her.
• 58:01
  But honestly she shouldn't have been shocked for shit.
• 58:04
  She should have been like, OK, I knew it.
• 58:06
  I knew it exactly because there's.
• 58:09
  She is so smart. She's sharp.
• 58:13
  Exactly. She's like, hey, I hear him
• 58:16
  chopping onions in the next room.
• 58:18
  He does not sound like he owns an Italian restaurant.
• 58:20
  He doesn't sound like he has skills to be a chef.
• 58:23
  And the team Sue is frozen. They're like, yeah, oh, my God,
• 58:27
  she's on to us. Listen, Yeah, that goes on the
• 58:30
  whole series. She's picking up on shit.
• 58:33
  She's like, you have the scar on the wrong arm.
• 58:36
  You look and sound like the guy that I met the day that I went
• 58:40
  to go visit my brother that one time a year ago.
• 58:43
  The list goes on. She is on his ass, Yeah.
• 58:48
  So I'm like, surely she's like, she's shocked together.
• 58:51
  Yeah. So then when she was generally
• 58:52
  shocked, I was like, heck no. I was like, so you were like,
• 58:55
  kind of like genuine. Like, I just was like, this
• 58:58
  doesn't make any sense to me. I love like I cannot.
• 59:01
  I'm shocked that I was like what the hell is up with her?
• 59:04
  Is she loved the Shakespearean poison pill, and she was
• 59:12
  cradling that thing like it was an Ativan.
• 59:14
  Yeah, but it was. He had told her, this is going
• 59:17
  to stop everything. This is going to essentially
• 59:20
  kill you. She wanted that pill.
• 59:22
  She was obsessed with it, obsessed with suicide, suicide
• 59:25
  ideation. She like couldn't sleep well
• 59:27
  without knowing that this pill was next to her because she was
• 59:29
  going through these bouts of pain and migraines that were so
• 59:33
  intense it would derail her her entire day.
• 59:36
  When she finds out that that pill is legit and it's used for
• 59:39
  euthanizing animals, she again shocked.
• 59:43
  Yeah. Why are you shocked?
• 59:47
  It just didn't add up. I was.
• 59:48
  Like why bitch? Like pick a lane.
• 59:52
  Is this like either you're smarter, you're not?
• 59:53
  It just didn't add up. I was like this is not.
• 59:55
  Good, I got the face. You have on I, I just, it just
• 1:00:03
  didn't make sense to me. I was like, like you said, she's
• 1:00:05
  very, she's a very smart person. Like she's putting clues
• 1:00:08
  together the whole time. And so I'm like, I'm trying to
• 1:00:11
  convince myself, oh, like, surely, like she knows that this
• 1:00:13
  is not actually her brother. She knows I'm convinced.
• 1:00:16
  Yes. And I'm just like, great.
• 1:00:18
  And then like when she finally finds out and she's shocked and
• 1:00:20
  I'm like, it's. The wrong way to tell?
• 1:00:22
  Me that you almost got kissed by your brother and you didn't put
• 1:00:26
  that you didn't think that was weird.
• 1:00:28
  Oh, your brother was you guys were cuddling it.
• 1:00:30
  Oh OK. Like this doesn't make any
• 1:00:32
  sense. She knows I'm convinced in my
• 1:00:35
  harder parts. I know that she knows he is not
• 1:00:41
  her brother. And then, like the show, it was
• 1:00:45
  all basically the jig was up. Yeah, yeah, it was up.
• 1:00:50
  Everyone was like, how did you not know?
• 1:00:51
  That's the thing, Like literally everyone knew.
• 1:00:54
  So I was just like, OK, like surely she's picked it up by
• 1:00:56
  now. I'm just like, how have you not
• 1:00:58
  picked it up by now? They're over here trying to test
• 1:01:01
  his DNA. They get out of that scrape
• 1:01:02
  early on. Then they're like, let's test
• 1:01:05
  his fingerprint. Let's find out more about the
• 1:01:07
  gambler OSO, who's in this picture with Sora, his
• 1:01:11
  ex-girlfriend who's like certifiable.
• 1:01:14
  Yeah, we haven't talked about her at all.
• 1:01:17
  We need to talk about that. Oh my God.
• 1:01:20
  Like there's so many things that like, people are confirming
• 1:01:23
  about him, about his origin story, and I'm like, we don't
• 1:01:26
  even need this. Everybody knows.
• 1:01:29
  Exactly. She knows Secretary Wang knows
• 1:01:33
  the lawyer Jang knows. Everybody knows he's a fake.
• 1:01:38
  Why are we here? What?
• 1:01:39
  So, and she's still like huh? Oh my God, frustrating.
• 1:01:43
  But let's talk about Soda, who is the ex-girlfriend who frames
• 1:01:47
  him for embezzlement in the 1st place to put them in prison.
• 1:01:49
  This is interesting because I don't think dramas do this
• 1:01:52
  anymore. She is an actress and she has a
• 1:01:56
  gangster. She's like a sugar baby.
• 1:01:59
  Sorry, she's a sugar baby. And she has a backer.
• 1:02:03
  Who's a gangster? The big boss.
• 1:02:04
  Yeah, who we barely see in the show.
• 1:02:06
  Right. This is a real thing.
• 1:02:09
  Whether you want to believe it or not, this is totally a real
• 1:02:11
  thing that there's an industry plant.
• 1:02:13
  We call them industry plants, someone who has insane backing
• 1:02:20
  from a producer, or in this case, the criminal underworld of
• 1:02:24
  career. Yeah.
• 1:02:26
  She's got this full on career but also she is dealing with
• 1:02:30
  literal criminals like all students who she wanted to be
• 1:02:35
  with. She had like this grand illusion
• 1:02:37
  that they should be together and she frames him for the
• 1:02:42
  embezzlement so that he'll go to prison for a year so he won't
• 1:02:46
  step out on her while she's filming abroad.
• 1:02:49
  That's a wild reason to put somebody in.
• 1:02:51
  She's certifiable. She's certifiable.
• 1:02:54
  I was like, wow, you really put him in jail because you don't
• 1:02:57
  want him messing around when you're away.
• 1:02:58
  And she goes, I paid off the prosecutor, I paid off the
• 1:03:01
  lawyer. I have the money in a Swiss bank
• 1:03:03
  account. Let me know when you get out.
• 1:03:05
  We can be together. I'm like.
• 1:03:07
  She's like, I got you. Like we'll see each other in a
• 1:03:09
  year. Like duh, duh.
• 1:03:11
  No. Can we talk about what he I
• 1:03:14
  played the scene, no lie, five times when he flipped the table.
• 1:03:18
  I was I lost it because he had like the.
• 1:03:22
  Crazy eye, it was so funny. Yes, I love table.
• 1:03:27
  Flipping. He's like you've got.
• 1:03:28
  He's like, you've got to be kidding you.
• 1:03:29
  Have got to. Jail because of that.
• 1:03:32
  He was like and then she's like and he's like holding on to her,
• 1:03:35
  gripping her tight and she's like holding his hand on my
• 1:03:37
  girl. This relationship is over.
• 1:03:40
  What is wrong with you? Like she was just a rancid
• 1:03:45
  person that just kept coming back into the story and this
• 1:03:50
  impending threat over Team OSU that was like, I'm going to
• 1:03:55
  reveal everything at one point. She's like, you have three days
• 1:03:57
  to wrap this up because I'm going to tell her everything.
• 1:04:01
  I'm going to tell her the truth. I'm like, she knows everybody
• 1:04:03
  knows you. You don't.
• 1:04:05
  Even need to be here. Yeah, you're late.
• 1:04:07
  Like you're actually late already crazy.
• 1:04:14
  I was like, this is, this is that's why you put him in jail,
• 1:04:16
  like. The original reason and my
• 1:04:20
  favorite thing is that he gets out and he's having all these
• 1:04:23
  issues, all these troubles getting shanked.
• 1:04:25
  He's still, they still need to pay back this money, the debt,
• 1:04:27
  plus interest. I'm like, why doesn't he just
• 1:04:31
  say this crazy bitch stole the money?
• 1:04:36
  And what's crazier is that the big boss knew that she stole the
• 1:04:41
  money, yeah, the entire time and was just holding also
• 1:04:46
  accountable out of jealousy. And he was like, I'm just going
• 1:04:51
  to kill this guy if he doesn't pay me back for what my crazy
• 1:04:56
  girlfriend stole. Oh my.
• 1:04:58
  Gosh, make it make sense. Make it make sense.
• 1:05:03
  Yeah, I mean straight to jail that there was no.
• 1:05:07
  Straight to jail. I just, oh gosh, I was like, OK,
• 1:05:15
  I was watching the scene when she was in the the jails, the
• 1:05:20
  visitation room. And I was like, that's why you
• 1:05:22
  did this, OK. My favorite thing is that she is
• 1:05:27
  shocked that he doesn't want to be with her.
• 1:05:30
  Yeah, she's like, yeah, like you'll get out in a year and
• 1:05:32
  then we can be together. And I'm just like, in what world
• 1:05:35
  do you think that he would want to be with you?
• 1:05:37
  You put him in prison, he framed him.
• 1:05:40
  He owes like a scary person, money.
• 1:05:41
  Now what's wrong with you? The thing?
• 1:05:45
  Is I'm going back to the main couple because I don't even want
• 1:05:49
  to talk about that girl anymore. But the main couple, I always
• 1:05:53
  thought that they had great chemistry and they do.
• 1:05:55
  It's just the faux zest, that's the thing.
• 1:05:58
  Yes, it's icky. I was just like this.
• 1:06:02
  I was like, yes, I agree. They have Greek chemistry.
• 1:06:05
  I was like, girl, you think this is your brother?
• 1:06:08
  Like, okay, remember when the scene I remember and this is and
• 1:06:13
  This is why I thought like, oh, she's not picking up what he's
• 1:06:16
  putting down. Like she's like she definitely
• 1:06:18
  knows, right? Cuz I when he one of the first
• 1:06:20
  moments he's in the house, she's like in her room, her door is
• 1:06:23
  cracked, she's taking. Off her undressing scene.
• 1:06:25
  Right. And he's like standing there,
• 1:06:27
  like looking at her. And then she's like, don't you
• 1:06:29
  think you should close the door? And I'm like.
• 1:06:31
  But she lingered a bit and I was like.
• 1:06:33
  This was the most flirtatious thing that she said.
• 1:06:37
  Yeah, And I was like, girl, like I thought this is your, this is
• 1:06:40
  your brother. So I'm like, OK, clearly she has
• 1:06:41
  to know that it's not her brother.
• 1:06:43
  Cuz, she said. What she said was, I'm not six
• 1:06:45
  years old anymore. Shouldn't you close the door
• 1:06:48
  with like a wink? Wink?
• 1:06:50
  Kind of, yes. Yeah.
• 1:06:51
  Very flirtatious. Yes.
• 1:06:53
  And I was like. Seductive your.
• 1:06:55
  Brother, why would you be flirty?
• 1:06:57
  That's weird. And he is.
• 1:06:59
  But like you said, he's frozen. He's shocked that he, like,
• 1:07:02
  walked in on her in her own room.
• 1:07:04
  And he closes the door and he starts laughing to himself,
• 1:07:07
  going, this is going to be very interesting.
• 1:07:09
  Yeah. And at that point when he said
• 1:07:11
  that, I was like, EW, this is just why is this happening?
• 1:07:16
  See, I think most I think. The the other side of that is I
• 1:07:20
  wanted to be interesting. Otherwise, there's no drama.
• 1:07:23
  Right. And I just, she literally think,
• 1:07:26
  Oh my gosh, I just was so disturbed.
• 1:07:28
  There was another seat. When my God, you really.
• 1:07:30
  Remember, they went so I could not, I couldn't.
• 1:07:33
  When they went, they went to that high school reunion party
• 1:07:37
  and they were all there. And he was basically trying to
• 1:07:40
  just like describe what was happening to her.
• 1:07:42
  And like one of the friends, her boyfriend had like kneeled down
• 1:07:45
  in front of her and like, they were about to kiss and
• 1:07:48
  everything. And like, he was like, oh, yeah,
• 1:07:49
  like they're about to kiss like this.
• 1:07:50
  And he like pulled her face like towards.
• 1:07:52
  Yeah, he like touched her face anytime you touched her.
• 1:07:54
  I was like. Oh, I was like why?
• 1:07:56
  Why It's a lot. Why is this happening?
• 1:08:00
  I know. Like I know.
• 1:08:02
  What about? Oh, my God, The carnival?
• 1:08:04
  I don't think it was at the carnival.
• 1:08:07
  He brings her cotton candy. Yeah.
• 1:08:11
  Yes. OK, so the so the SNL Korea
• 1:08:14
  spoofed the cotton candy kiss. Because it was another scene,
• 1:08:20
  then I was like, what is happening here?
• 1:08:22
  Right? Which?
• 1:08:23
  I thought the setup was really awkward.
• 1:08:28
  Couldn't have been more awkward. I was like, you can't even.
• 1:08:31
  It doesn't even look natural for these two to do this.
• 1:08:35
  But anyway, they're both eating from the same thing of cotton
• 1:08:38
  candy. Very Lady in the Tramp.
• 1:08:40
  Late, I've got to say, it's like a Lady in the Tramp moment.
• 1:08:45
  But he's shocked. He's like, Oh my God, our faces
• 1:08:47
  are so close. We're basically this is a quasi
• 1:08:50
  kiss thing. But they weren't kissing.
• 1:08:53
  They're just eating cotton candy.
• 1:08:55
  On the same thing and I'm just like why?
• 1:08:58
  Again? Why I I?
• 1:08:59
  Mean, I get it, but also I like that they have all of these
• 1:09:04
  strange skinship moments that are like supposed to make you
• 1:09:11
  question your own morality because that's the point.
• 1:09:15
  That is actually actually the point of watching is to make you
• 1:09:18
  be like ah I feel bad for liking this it.
• 1:09:21
  Made me so uncomfortable and I'm like this girl thinks that this
• 1:09:24
  is her brother and like the scene when like she went she
• 1:09:27
  teeters. She teeters in the front
• 1:09:30
  episodes between being very suspicious of him and and
• 1:09:34
  keeping him on his toes and then really trusting him and
• 1:09:37
  accepting him and needing him and learning to rely on him.
• 1:09:40
  Yeah. And later on, like I'm telling
• 1:09:43
  you, like halfway to the show, she fucking.
• 1:09:45
  Knows I mean there's no I that's what I thought too.
• 1:09:50
  So when she was shocked, I was like, this is you've got to be
• 1:09:53
  kidding me. This is ridiculous.
• 1:09:55
  Like I and like the scene when you remember the scene that she
• 1:09:58
  like, where was that? At the beach and she went like
• 1:09:59
  running into the water. Dude, that was, yeah, they went
• 1:10:04
  to like a Riverside, which is where that's where they spread
• 1:10:08
  the real Osu's ashes. It was just frozen over.
• 1:10:13
  So now it's melted off and they go to this river.
• 1:10:16
  This was, this was drying because the sand was super soft.
• 1:10:22
  And she's wearing these mid twenty 10s chunky heels, which
• 1:10:26
  I've had a hair a pair of heels like that as well.
• 1:10:29
  So to see them back on my screen, I was like painful.
• 1:10:34
  She, as a blind person, just walks straight into the water.
• 1:10:40
  Yeah. And he doesn't notice until
• 1:10:42
  she's almost neck deep in the. Water how?
• 1:10:45
  Yeah. And then, yeah, he goes running
• 1:10:47
  after her. That's when he slaps her.
• 1:10:50
  Yes, he slaps her. For the first time, slap yes,
• 1:10:53
  and then he's carrying her out and then she's like caressing
• 1:10:56
  his face like. Oh, let me touch back my
• 1:10:58
  brother's. Face and I was like what is
• 1:11:01
  going on in this show? I just.
• 1:11:03
  I know. I just couldn't.
• 1:11:05
  Highs and lows, Highs and lows. I could not move past it.
• 1:11:09
  And then for him, I'm just kind of like, how could you carry on
• 1:11:13
  this weird flirtation? This poor woman thinks that
• 1:11:15
  you're her brother. No, but then sleeping in the
• 1:11:17
  same bed together. And that's when I was like,
• 1:11:20
  we're done here. Like I cannot with this.
• 1:11:22
  Like I just was like y'all are literally spooning.
• 1:11:26
  Like y'all are literally cuddling in bed.
• 1:11:28
  And she literally. Cuddling.
• 1:11:30
  Later on in the show, he's like, you know, trying to put up
• 1:11:33
  barriers between them. He's like brother and sister
• 1:11:36
  don't sleep in the same bed together.
• 1:11:37
  We shouldn't do that. She finds him very comforting or
• 1:11:43
  whatever and is constantly trying to get in bed with him
• 1:11:47
  and sleeps in the same bed. No, it was so icky.
• 1:11:51
  She's very. Manipulative.
• 1:11:52
  Icky. Yeah.
• 1:11:53
  And it's like they made us seem like, oh, it's because she's,
• 1:11:55
  like, naive and like, Secretary Wayne kept her shelter.
• 1:11:58
  She doesn't know how to be around men.
• 1:11:59
  I'm like, no, no, what is this? Like this doesn't make any
• 1:12:03
  sense. She knows what she's doing.
• 1:12:05
  As soon as she was like cuz she she seductively was taking off
• 1:12:10
  her clothes in the early episode you were referencing.
• 1:12:14
  As soon as that like little flirtation happened, I was like
• 1:12:16
  she fucking knows what she's doing.
• 1:12:18
  She knows exactly what she's doing.
• 1:12:20
  I was like, what is this? Yeah.
• 1:12:22
  But that's what makes it more interesting is that you're like,
• 1:12:26
  what is she playing at? Literally I was like, do you
• 1:12:29
  know or do you not know? Because this is getting weird.
• 1:12:32
  It's getting so weird and I just could not deal with it.
• 1:12:35
  He. He.
• 1:12:36
  Keeps like almost kissing her in the bed.
• 1:12:39
  There's like multiple fake outs of will he kiss her while she's
• 1:12:44
  lying in bed asleep. I think it finally happens in a
• 1:12:47
  later episode where he finally does like plant one on her.
• 1:12:50
  But this is post her diagnosis that she's going to die again.
• 1:12:54
  Her brain tumor has resurfaced and she doesn't have a good
• 1:12:59
  prognosis and he is just cut up. Yeah, he's devastated.
• 1:13:04
  Devastated and so he goes into her room and finally just plants
• 1:13:09
  went on her in her sleep. But she's not asleep and that's
• 1:13:14
  all the episode ends is like her opening her eyes.
• 1:13:16
  Yes, and I was just like. Yeah, you did.
• 1:13:19
  You freaking hated this show. No, I could not do with this
• 1:13:23
  girl. Like I was struggling.
• 1:13:26
  It's like, in what universe is this OK?
• 1:13:30
  Like what is going on? I know, but let's talk about her
• 1:13:36
  young, who's the female lead and kind of like her hang ups
• 1:13:39
  because not only was Secretary Wang doing irreparable harm to
• 1:13:45
  her physically. Yeah.
• 1:13:47
  But she was stunting her socially and buying her friends
• 1:13:53
  so she has this. I think her name is Mita, who is
• 1:13:56
  literally paid to be sort of a companion for her.
• 1:14:01
  Yeah. The friends in the coffee shop
• 1:14:03
  as well. Which horrific wig they put on
• 1:14:07
  that guy? Oh my gosh.
• 1:14:08
  Oh my gosh. Horrific.
• 1:14:11
  Like they put on that guy from the coffee shop.
• 1:14:16
  I could spend another 30 minutes on that wig, as a matter of
• 1:14:18
  fact. But but it's a really bad.
• 1:14:22
  These people are all in it for the money.
• 1:14:25
  Yeah. Secretary Wang.
• 1:14:26
  We know she's in it for the money.
• 1:14:28
  Yeah. She keeps wearing up and down.
• 1:14:30
  If I wanted to cause you harm, I would have.
• 1:14:31
  If I wanted to kill you, I would have.
• 1:14:33
  If I wanted to take money, I would have.
• 1:14:35
  But she's there for control. She's there for the money.
• 1:14:38
  Yep. She'd let her father die.
• 1:14:40
  Yeah. Let that man die.
• 1:14:42
  And we're supposed to again, we just accept this woman into the
• 1:14:45
  family at the end anyways? I cannot get over it.
• 1:14:49
  I can't. This girl young, has trust
• 1:14:53
  issues, obviously, because everyone around her is there
• 1:14:57
  just because of money. And so when Ulsu resurfaces in
• 1:15:00
  her life, she's justifiably suspicious of him.
• 1:15:05
  And she's like, if you're here for money, you're going to have
• 1:15:08
  to kill me for it. And that is a running gag
• 1:15:11
  throughout the entire show. Is that if he wants her
• 1:15:15
  inheritance he's going to have to kill her.
• 1:15:18
  That she wants to die was the whole thing.
• 1:15:22
  Like we said in the non spoiler section, suicide attempts
• 1:15:25
  galore. She just, we just talked about
• 1:15:26
  one where she just walks into the water, walks into the river,
• 1:15:30
  trying to drown herself. Yeah.
• 1:15:32
  That's the tip of the iceberg. She is really struggling with
• 1:15:35
  suicidal ideation. And we kind of get a little bit
• 1:15:39
  of clarity later on about why does she want to die so badly,
• 1:15:44
  right? And it's really about a
• 1:15:46
  pessimistic attitude toward what she knows is a bad prognosis.
• 1:15:54
  She's having these symptoms, having these intense migraines
• 1:15:57
  and she figures I've relapsed my my brain tumors back and I don't
• 1:16:02
  have long to live. So why even try living is her
• 1:16:08
  argument. Why even try being happy?
• 1:16:10
  Why even try living? Why even try trusting others
• 1:16:13
  when everything is going to come to naughty?
• 1:16:16
  Everybody's just here for the money and I'm just going to die
• 1:16:19
  anyway. Oh man.
• 1:16:21
  And that is tough. Like we don't get, we just don't
• 1:16:24
  get that in current K dramas. No, not at all.
• 1:16:27
  This is bleak. Yeah.
• 1:16:30
  Real bleak. Yeah, and it's handled directly.
• 1:16:33
  It could have been even more profound.
• 1:16:36
  I think that they was just so, I don't know, I just really don't
• 1:16:41
  like how they handled just her depression and her suicidal
• 1:16:44
  thoughts. Like I feel like it could have
• 1:16:46
  been a lot more profound if they handled it with a little bit
• 1:16:47
  more care. There was nothing professional
• 1:16:49
  about how they handled not at all her neurosis really.
• 1:16:54
  Yeah, yeah. Her not wanting to accept help
• 1:16:57
  was another big thing and him basically the way that he got
• 1:17:02
  her to accept help was kind of kick her while she was down.
• 1:17:06
  Yep, have her experience a really bad embarrassing moment
• 1:17:10
  where she needs help and he's like how could you not want my
• 1:17:13
  help? And it works.
• 1:17:16
  She does want him. After that she's like, OK, well
• 1:17:19
  I need your help. I need, you know, none of us
• 1:17:22
  should live alone. It's kind of the overarching
• 1:17:26
  small font thesis of the show is that really we all need a little
• 1:17:30
  help sometimes. We shouldn't live alone.
• 1:17:33
  Yeah, and that was like the turning point for them for sure.
• 1:17:36
  Yeah, and they they turn into each other, right?
• 1:17:40
  You have this guy that doesn't, doesn't want to die.
• 1:17:42
  He's and they say that at the beginning this like grand, grand
• 1:17:45
  irony of the show, which melodramas and K drama land are
• 1:17:50
  always based on some crazy irony.
• 1:17:53
  The irony of the show is that he's desperate to live and so
• 1:17:57
  he's doing this really immoral act of conning this poor blind
• 1:18:02
  girl or very rich blind girl. I should say yes and she is
• 1:18:07
  desperate to die. Yep.
• 1:18:09
  And they, you know, find their way to each other and they learn
• 1:18:13
  to love each other in this weird, twisted, fossessed way.
• 1:18:18
  Yes, even though they both. I'm convinced she knows.
• 1:18:22
  Obviously he knows they're not related, but she has to know
• 1:18:24
  that they're not related. Yeah.
• 1:18:27
  Now, if I recall correctly from my sojourns on Google, there is
• 1:18:35
  the phenomenon that if siblings are not raised together, they
• 1:18:42
  can fall for each other. There are horror stories that
• 1:18:47
  have hit the media that like I married my brother, I didn't
• 1:18:50
  know or even there was one recently that I saw that like a
• 1:18:53
  mother married her son, that she had given up her adoption many
• 1:18:56
  years ago. And Oh my goodness, it was it's.
• 1:19:00
  Sickening, truly sickening, but that's a real thing.
• 1:19:04
  So I almost feel like despite her maybe knowing the other side
• 1:19:10
  of that is she could have genuinely thought that was her
• 1:19:12
  brother and despite all that, she's falling for him because
• 1:19:16
  that is a real phenomenon. Yeah.
• 1:19:19
  And that's why I'm, like, convinced that she really didn't
• 1:19:22
  know until she was given the news because like, at a certain
• 1:19:26
  point she was just like, is it OK to be in love with my
• 1:19:28
  brother? Like, she wasn't like, justify.
• 1:19:31
  I was like, she did not know my head in my hands.
• 1:19:35
  Just I just. Like I just, I can't, I cannot,
• 1:19:43
  I cannot get over it. Shaking my head.
• 1:19:47
  Like, she was really trying to like she she kind of resolved
• 1:19:50
  within herself at a certain point.
• 1:19:52
  It was like, oh, like, I think I really am in love with my
• 1:19:55
  brother. Is this OK?
• 1:19:56
  I really don't think that she knew until like, she was
• 1:19:58
  explicitly told like, this man is not your brother.
• 1:20:01
  And she was like. Oh, man, Setting that aside,
• 1:20:10
  going back to her and her issues, yeah, the way that she
• 1:20:16
  was raised for 21 years by Secretary Wang, no one ever told
• 1:20:20
  her it's OK to not be OK. It's OK to cry.
• 1:20:23
  It's OK to have these crazy outbursts because you're going
• 1:20:26
  through something devastating. You have blindness due to a
• 1:20:31
  brain tumor, and you are in a precarious situation health
• 1:20:35
  wise. That's something that she had
• 1:20:37
  told him before, basically telling him and comforting him
• 1:20:42
  the way that she always wanted to be comforted.
• 1:20:44
  And she was like, no, it's OK to not be OK.
• 1:20:46
  It's OK to cry. And later on, when she does get
• 1:20:50
  that official diagnosis that she was avoiding for so long, she
• 1:20:52
  said, don't take me to the hospital.
• 1:20:54
  She had a fear of the hospital. And they finally learned, yeah,
• 1:20:57
  she does have a brain tumor again, and it's fatal.
• 1:21:01
  He. This is the spooning that I
• 1:21:03
  think you're talking. They spoon a bunch of times.
• 1:21:05
  But in the hospital specifically, he goes and they
• 1:21:09
  just cry together on the bed. And he's like, it's OK to cry
• 1:21:14
  and comforts her in the way that she's always wanted to be
• 1:21:17
  comforted. Yeah.
• 1:21:19
  I found that moment beautiful. You found it icky.
• 1:21:22
  It is what it is. There's just, like, too much.
• 1:21:26
  And everyone's kind of like, I guess we should leave them.
• 1:21:33
  I mean, at one point he writes a letter to her that he converts
• 1:21:37
  to Braille. Yes.
• 1:21:40
  You didn't feel anything about that?
• 1:21:42
  No. Oh my God.
• 1:21:45
  No, the damage had already been done because their.
• 1:21:48
  Whole thing, their whole thing is like the wind.
• 1:21:51
  And when the wind, yeah, the wind chime that they got at the
• 1:21:53
  carnival game, you even if the wind isn't blowing now, the wind
• 1:21:57
  chime will always ring. Goodnight Young.
• 1:22:00
  And attaches her wrist to the little glass wind chime bell.
• 1:22:05
  And they're supposed to be siblings at that point.
• 1:22:10
  This is I mean. I feel like any moment I bring
• 1:22:14
  up, you're just like. Yeah, no.
• 1:22:16
  I just I it really soured the whole thing.
• 1:22:18
  I was because. She genuinely, this woman did
• 1:22:20
  not know. So I was like, none of this
• 1:22:22
  should be happening. I can't.
• 1:22:26
  Let's talk about the. Ending.
• 1:22:27
  I'm just going to skip to the end because at first it is open
• 1:22:34
  to interpretation. It could be perceived as he died
• 1:22:40
  and this is a dream or a hallucination from home girl
• 1:22:46
  what do you think? So yeah, when the scene first
• 1:22:49
  starts, I thought that she was. Dreaming because you know, this
• 1:22:52
  is post surgery, post chemotherapy.
• 1:22:56
  We had the time jump a year, right?
• 1:22:59
  Yeah. Yeah, she looks great.
• 1:23:00
  She's like in a cab. You could see that her vision
• 1:23:03
  like I'm like, OK, it's a little blurry.
• 1:23:05
  And I was like, what's what's going on here?
• 1:23:07
  It's kind of dreamlike. And I was like, is she dreaming?
• 1:23:10
  And you know, there's this man and he rides past her on his
• 1:23:14
  bike and she hears like the the bell like on the bracelet and
• 1:23:16
  she's like, OK, like but he doesn't stop.
• 1:23:18
  So she's like OK but right Cuz she gives him a bracelet a
• 1:23:23
  little. That has a bell on it for his
• 1:23:27
  fake birthday because he's not the real suit.
• 1:23:30
  But anyway, it's a birthday gift.
• 1:23:32
  She bakes him a cake as well. I mean, they have like a lot of
• 1:23:35
  cute moves. Anyway, yes, keep going.
• 1:23:39
  But she's. Just like thinking she's like,
• 1:23:41
  OK, that was. Interesting.
• 1:23:42
  Moving on. And so then she goes to the cafe
• 1:23:45
  and she orders her tea and the the waiter that brings her tea,
• 1:23:48
  you could see that to the audience.
• 1:23:50
  You can see like her vision has kind of returned.
• 1:23:52
  It's still a little hazy around the edges, but she can kind of
• 1:23:56
  see the figure of this man. And like, as the scene continues
• 1:23:58
  to go on, he comes more and more into focus.
• 1:24:01
  And we see that it's Sue and he's he's waiting on her and he
• 1:24:04
  gives her tea and she's just like, oh, wow.
• 1:24:07
  And she's like, oh, like, I could see that you're really
• 1:24:09
  handsome, da, da, da. And he's like, oh, I didn't know
• 1:24:11
  if you would like me. And then they walk through the
• 1:24:13
  cherry blossoms and they kiss and everything.
• 1:24:15
  But it was kind of like, again, I was happy that they were both
• 1:24:19
  alive because Sue had been stabbed.
• 1:24:22
  Oh. Oh.
• 1:24:22
  By his sidekick. Yeah.
• 1:24:25
  By Jin Sung, yeah. Which was I don't.
• 1:24:28
  Even understand why that happened, I'm assuming the big
• 1:24:33
  boss was like hey. Yeah, you have to do this.
• 1:24:37
  You need to do this, I think. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:38
  Was he holding the family? Hostage.
• 1:24:40
  I can't remember. I don't remember the the last
• 1:24:43
  scenes are very confusing because Ginsling.
• 1:24:45
  And his family, they got into a car accident.
• 1:24:47
  Yeah, they got into a car accident.
• 1:24:48
  We don't even know if they were alive at the end, Right.
• 1:24:50
  And then we see at the end that they are alive, but it was just
• 1:24:53
  very confusing. There's a lot happening.
• 1:24:55
  But yeah, so we didn't know if Sue was going to survive that
• 1:24:58
  stab wound. So when he comes up at the end,
• 1:25:00
  we're like, oh, OK, He he made it.
• 1:25:02
  And then him and Young get reunited and they have their
• 1:25:05
  little romantic moment. But because of everything that
• 1:25:07
  had transpired before then, I just, I was like, I can't, I
• 1:25:12
  can't. Do this.
• 1:25:14
  I'm happy that they're together. I'm happy Young is alive and
• 1:25:17
  she's healthy. I understand.
• 1:25:18
  And she can has most of her vision and, you know, she seems
• 1:25:21
  happy or she seems lighter. But I was like, this was a this
• 1:25:25
  was a wild ride, to say the least.
• 1:25:30
  Yeah. I wouldn't.
• 1:25:34
  Say. This is an unhappy ending, but
• 1:25:39
  it is a confusing ending. Very confusing and it's done on
• 1:25:43
  purpose. Like you could tell that they
• 1:25:45
  were like we are going to make. This pretty ambiguous and make
• 1:25:50
  sure the audience is left a little bit guessing as to the
• 1:25:55
  outcome. Does she have her vision?
• 1:25:57
  Oh, I think she does have her vision.
• 1:26:00
  Is he alive? Is he not alive?
• 1:26:01
  Is she dreaming? This looks really dreamlike.
• 1:26:06
  Maybe she is actually seeing him here.
• 1:26:09
  The list goes on like this, sort of questioning the reality that
• 1:26:14
  you're presented. Yep, this doesn't happen in K
• 1:26:18
  dramas anymore. It doesn't.
• 1:26:20
  I and I appreciated how it. All kind of came together very
• 1:26:23
  slowly cuz it's like OK can she see OK he's starting to come
• 1:26:27
  into focus. OK, it looks like she can see oh
• 1:26:29
  it's not a dream. OK she's actually looking at
• 1:26:32
  him. Oh he's actually there.
• 1:26:33
  So it was really cool to see how it was unfolding slowly.
• 1:26:37
  Blink twice if you need eyes. Yes, yes.
• 1:26:40
  So it's like unfolding slowly before your eyes, which was
• 1:26:42
  which was fun because I was like, OK, like, I'm not sure.
• 1:26:45
  And at the end I was like, OK, cool.
• 1:26:46
  Like that was a cool way to kind of reveal everything.
• 1:26:49
  But yeah, I don't think this would sit well with a lot of.
• 1:26:54
  People, I think people would consider this punching down to
• 1:27:00
  disabled communities. Maybe.
• 1:27:03
  There's so many choices that don't make sense, like the Gene
• 1:27:06
  Song sidekicks suddenly stabbing the male lead at the end of the
• 1:27:12
  show and the Casino Royale thing that they had going on that you
• 1:27:17
  had to win a poker game to win the money that he had owed the
• 1:27:22
  big boss. I you know what there's a level
• 1:27:25
  of? And I still have this feeling, a
• 1:27:27
  level of I'm washing my hands of this and the same wow that I
• 1:27:33
  felt initially. Yeah.
• 1:27:35
  But, I mean, we're done. We don't have to revisit this.
• 1:27:40
  A lot of people are probably not gonna watch after hearing this,
• 1:27:47
  but you know. If you want to like have a seat.
• 1:27:51
  That's. Fine.
• 1:27:52
  Yes, we're we're getting the check as we speak.
• 1:27:54
  Yes, when you said washing your hands like that that.
• 1:27:57
  Describes perfectly how I felt when I finished the last episode
• 1:28:01
  and I said goodnight, we're done here.
• 1:28:04
  I don't have to ever think about this again.
• 1:28:07
  I don't think I've ever stood 10 toes down for this show.
• 1:28:10
  I've always brought it up as like an entertaining, can you
• 1:28:14
  freaking believe this happened type of yeah.
• 1:28:17
  And I'm glad that it happened, Yeah.
• 1:28:21
  I mean, obviously I don't condone the behavior.
• 1:28:23
  I don't like. Was it entertaining?
• 1:28:26
  Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
• 1:28:28
  A lot of parts work, for sure. For sure, but I would posit that
• 1:28:34
  if you started recently watching K dramas that you you're not
• 1:28:37
  going to make it through. No, no, no, no, this isn't going
• 1:28:41
  to work for you. So.
• 1:28:42
  Be like in the game for a while and like, be able to appreciate
• 1:28:45
  the chunk of it all. But yeah.
• 1:28:48
  And there's some merit in it, like.
• 1:28:50
  We said like there's types of characters that you don't see
• 1:28:54
  anymore. Yeah, types of plots that you
• 1:28:57
  don't see anymore, but otherwise it is unabashedly pretty foul.
• 1:29:05
  Could have said it better. Myself, it's just foul like and
• 1:29:09
  I usually love a chaotic good time like and especially these
• 1:29:12
  older dramas, it's just like, I'm excited for the the chaos.
• 1:29:16
  Yes, there's something about it too.
• 1:29:18
  It's so cheap, right? The show is made so cheaply,
• 1:29:22
  they are constantly having big conversations in coffee shops.
• 1:29:26
  Yeah, they. Big things are.
• 1:29:31
  Happening in coffee shop, parties are happening in coffee
• 1:29:34
  shops, the interiors of her room, his room, the house.
• 1:29:41
  That's a set, you know, that's cheap to produce.
• 1:29:45
  Again, K dramas like to switch it up nowadays.
• 1:29:48
  They got that Netflix money. People see the studio dragon
• 1:29:51
  logo and they're like, oh, worthy effects.
• 1:29:54
  This is how K dramas used to be. Yeah.
• 1:29:59
  Oh man, I. Yeah, I wanted, I was ready for
• 1:30:03
  like the chaos and everything, but I was like, who?
• 1:30:05
  Yeah, I cannot, I can't do this. We experienced A Fosest before
• 1:30:11
  with. Yes, Autumn in my heart, yes.
• 1:30:13
  And there's such a difference between that drama and this.
• 1:30:16
  One, it's almost like Autumn in My heart is like the reverse,
• 1:30:20
  right? Like, they start off one way and
• 1:30:22
  then you're like, OK, so then by the time they're adults, it's
• 1:30:25
  not icky, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:30:26
  But it's like with this, it's like the whole show, y'all are
• 1:30:30
  making her siblings. He's trying to convince her
• 1:30:32
  desperately that they are blood. Related, she is grasping at
• 1:30:38
  straws trying to convince herself that she has a brother
• 1:30:41
  who's not dead who didn't abandoned her.
• 1:30:45
  Yeah, lots of questions for the mom.
• 1:30:48
  The biological mom? Unanswered, but that's that.
• 1:30:52
  We we have come to the end. Of that winter the wind blows
• 1:30:56
  yes. Thank you for joining me on this
• 1:30:58
  journey. I am sorry for the journey, yes,
• 1:31:01
  because you absolutely loved the show, but.
• 1:31:07
  You live and you learn. You, Laura, and your turn.
• 1:31:10
  No, it was still such a fun time talking about the show with you.
• 1:31:13
  Because you always bring lots of comedy in depth to the
• 1:31:16
  conversation. So I don't know if I love the
• 1:31:19
  way I never I I love the way that the conversation went
• 1:31:23
  though. But yeah, man, it's an
• 1:31:26
  interesting journey. Open a window.
• 1:31:28
  Jeez, you're literally. I was just like oh.
• 1:31:30
  Can move on from that. But thank you so much for having
• 1:31:33
  me very honored as always. Thank you, Naz.
• 1:31:36
  Where can people find Swoon Diaries?
• 1:31:38
  Online, Yes. You can find Swoon Diaries on
• 1:31:41
  Instagram at. Swoon Diaries pod and you can
• 1:31:45
  also find it wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 1:31:48
  Perfect. Well, that's been her show.
• 1:31:51
  I'm Jessica and this has been the tip I Care Rebels podcast.