Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Building the Foundations for Success. Client Relationships and Business Development

Transcript

Building the Foundations for Success. Client Relationships and Business Development · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, Sam Axe here from Financial Planner Live Podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Matt Cross.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Matt Cross has been a financial planner for the last eight years.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: He started his career actually at St.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place in Styrancester at their head office, then joined a partner practice, and we talk about what it's like to join a partner practice on a self-employed basis.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, recently he's moved from being part of a partner practice to now taking the full leap into setting up his own partner practice.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's quite a young advisor, and we talk about his journey, and he's very honest about client acquisition and how tough he found that within the first few years, and how a sort of panny-dropping moment changed his whole perception of what good financial planning is.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the types of clients that he loves working with, the ones that he's tried to work with, but doesn't really do that well with.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about business owners and the need for financial advice.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I even share some tips about LinkedIn, how to use LinkedIn effectively to um to outreach when it comes to things like business development.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I give an amazing tip actually.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody who does it, let me know.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I want to cut.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I hope you enjoy this episode today.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very good.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nice sunny Friday.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot complain.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is a sunny Friday, bit cold.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Bit chilly, but it will do.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, listen, Matt, you may have noticed that my background's looking a bit swish.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have come up loops and bounds since the last time we spoke.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Production value is is sort of going through the roof.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're in our brand new studio um in Bristol, and we're really sort of up in the production game here at the Financial Panel Life.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So is this the first podcast you've recorded with the new studio?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It I recorded an episode last week in here, but it was with a with just a black background, um, which actually looked really, really cool.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love black anyway, and it did look really, really cool.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I'm gonna use that background for my podcast that I'm bringing out soon for Talk Club.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Talk Club, the men's mental fitness charity that I'm part of, um, want me to host their podcasts.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the black background would look really, really cool for that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, with Financial Planner Life, our colours green, our colours, you know, got the browns in the background.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And bring anybody in here to sit down with me face to face.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We want it to feel a bit more financial services.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what we've kind of gone for here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Tristan, who's part of Financial Planner Life Studios, has done a fantastic job.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is his first venture into um podcast studios, video services, all that kind of stuff on a self-employed basis, and we partner together on this.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, he's done an excellent job.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really pumped and psyched about this.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're working with the likes of legal in general at the moment, you know, and to be able to bring clients and you and Zach.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hang on, there's me talking about me, me, me on this podcast.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get you, let's get talking about you, Matt.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I actually thought you'd up the production value because you knew I was coming on.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: That is true, yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I was meant to say, Matt.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm hoping you'd say, but then you start talking about other podcasts, but show me if it works, would they?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've been chasing and chasing, and you've been knocking me back.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Look, Sam, look, mate, when you get the production value up, I'll come on the podcast.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are today.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: For your listeners, it was the opposite.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: There was me going, Sam, when are you gonna get me on?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Matt, we're here today and we're gonna record a podcast uh episode um of the Financial Planner Life, the careers-based podcast for the financial planning profession.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for taking time out and to join me today.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Matt, you know, let's just fire off with the first question then.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I always love to start with understanding how you actually got into the profession, because lots of people out there listening to this podcast um are thinking about becoming a financial planner.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we all know the barriers to entry, getting into the financial planning profession, it is quite difficult, it is changing, it is hard, and everybody's journey seems to be different.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but let's kick things off from the start then.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So just tell us about your journey.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did you how did you end up becoming a financial planner?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: How did you end up getting into the financial planning profession?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, mine was kind of written in the stars for a long time.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, so where I actually grew up in Cirencester, and there is a big FTSE 100 financial advice company uh that has their head office in Cirencester.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of like went went through school, went to college, and in college they had a financial advisor come in and do a talk to us because I was in this finance academy, and this um advisor explained what he did, what his days looked like, what the main parts of his role were.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in essence, it was I sit down with people and talk to them about what they do with their money.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he has two, three weeks off in the summer, spends time with the family.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what more would you want from life?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the like the it was set up from there.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that's what I wanted to do.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it was then a case of just following the right steps to get there.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I and it was quite simple for me to see that because we had which is SJP's head office was down the road from me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew that that go through there and follow whichever process takes me to the financial planner side of things, which is where I did.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So someone came into the school, uh the college, they they gave a presentation.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Up to that point, you might not have had a really an a clue around what a financial planner does, or did you have an inkling?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, do you know what I wouldn't have even known?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wouldn't have done like my family never interacted with a financial planner.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, I wanted to be Lord Sugar before that until I met a financial planner, and then it all changed.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't have even really known until then.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to know because um I'm partnering with uh CISI um for their Change Fest festival uh with next next gen planners.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing four events with them this year, and they've got some really great connections to universities and grads, etc.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to sharing my experience of what a career looks like within the financial planning from my perspective as a recruiter and a commentator on the profession.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's something that's definitely needed, and we can really sort of captivate the audience as to what the role is, what you do in the role, and actually the impact you do have on people's lives in an incredibly positive way, whether that's financial well-being, you know, calming people's nerves about the future, or what might happen if you were to die, or all those horrible things that you think about in the back of your mind where you need peace of mind.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where financial planners play a vital part, you know, in um in the overall well-being of those that are out there earning money, inheriting money, or just quite simply wanting to just calm any concern around the money worries that we might well have as we go through our life, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the thing.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you actually pull apart what the role actually is, and don't remember there's loads of tough parts of this role, uh, bits that you might not enjoy, but actually the fundamental like essence to what we do, for me, there is like I couldn't see myself doing anything else.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, you are going on a journey with people that you can really get to know.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know some of my clients so much more than my friends.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's yeah, I do absolutely actually think about it.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know some of my clients, yeah, probably more than most of my friends, because you have so many deep conversations and really understand their life and where they want to be, and it's you know, through the relationship you have with them, you try and help them get there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Who wouldn't want to do that?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And do you feel like you know, for those that aren't sitting down with clients at the moment, you know, and and and and having those conversations, do you feel like they do open up to you as if not only you were a friend, but that you were a trusted confident, you know, that you were somebody they could really truly trust, that they might tell you things that they might not even tell their closest friends or family members.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%, 100%.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that and actually that's why, and that is why I think this relationship works and why this role works, because you are a third party to their life that they can fully open up to because they know that like you're not then the person they're just in the, you know, not their pal that they're going to watch the rugby with.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: They can just fully they can kind of offload.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like a therapy role, right?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get you, you're quite often in meetings, you get to tears, and it gets to a really deep position where a part of it, I think, is clients just have the chance to finally offload a lot of these thoughts of where they really are, whether it's good or bad.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then they know that they're basically paying you to help them get there.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like the therapy role, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you're you know, you know, you can close the door of that room and then breathe and go back to your life.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a bit I enjoy.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had any training around that?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because let's, you know, let's face it, when we sit down in in front of people and and and we are talking uh about things that can create emotion, do you sometimes feel the the vulnerability that can come up for the wrong person with the wrong background and experience might cause more damage than good.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have any training around that at all?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't, but there were some early stages where actually like you you actually are given quite a um uh as a position, you know, you can't take it lightly, and you're right, because and I actually I've listened to some podcasts where you know the the interviewer is asking some really deep questions.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, quite not like are you okay?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because are you taking that person to a place that you're then not able to control their emotions after it?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I actually haven't had any training.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's just been a kind of slow process of understanding where you can take things before you might go a bit too far.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there have been meetings where you sat there and the person, you know, does start kind of breaking down a bit in tears.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I then just pull back and let them say what they want to say.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if they want to finish up, I'm not gonna keep asking more, you know, why questions at that stage.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I haven't.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, maybe that actually is a thing that you kind of maybe there is a uh a gap there that you should understand more about because what you don't want to do is, you know, get someone to a position where they then come out of the room and they feel worse about themselves, and that's happened because of the conversation that I've had with them.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I haven't.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, I think to be honest, I hadn't really thought about that until you've just asked now.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's explore let's explore it a little bit.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had Michelle Hoskins on the podcast, Little Miss Wow Standards International.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, she's lovely, you know, she's fantastic.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about vulnerable clients and the work they're doing around helping financial advisors raise the standards around vulnerable clients and those that are being financially possibly manipulated by partners, etc.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you often sort of sometimes sit down?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or have you sat down with clients and thought I think this person might be being potentially through their vulnerability being financially manipulated by a partner or a family member?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever come up against that at all?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And have you ever had to sort of signpost them to any kind of support or help or anything?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's only so much you can do, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I haven't.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd say probably thank fortunately I haven't.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you often think, well, have a you know, have you missed something?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think so.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: The majority of my clients have never really been in that situation.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the more kind of tongue-in-cheek ones that I've had where you know I look after a mother and a daughter, and the mother's often making jokes that the daughter will do what she can to try and get money off of her.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I kind of, you know, sometimes it's like that's a bit tongue in cheek, but I'm also like, are you hinting that actually you don't trust your daughter?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think it's got that stage yet, but you know, there is this whole thing now about vulnerable clients, and it and actually, even when I started doing this role, a vulnerable client you might have seen as like a widow or someone going through a really tough time, but now it's like you know, you lose your job, you get divorced.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that can lead to some real vulnerabilities, and you do have to be aware of that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um because again, we can have quite a serious role to play in that, and we can either help for the better or you know, ignore it and it may get worse.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think so, you know, I've there's nothing I've ever noticed that seems like there's an issue that needs to be taken further, thankfully.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as a financial advisor, there are probably times where there are sensitive points in people's lives where they need to seek financial advice.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you often see clients through who are going through divorce, for example?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what's the realities of the sensitive type situations?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have to have a high level of empathy, I think, as a financial advisor, if you're dealing with uh an individual at quite a stressful life event.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um tell us about that.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you know I'm not trying to put a downer on this podcast here.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just want people to to also understand that they need to be prepared to be sitting in front of those typical types of clients.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what's a typical situation?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Divorce is obviously one, yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean what else do you come up against?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's not loads, but one for divorce.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I'll never forget I had a client.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I took I took on um the husband as a client, and then I took on the wife as a client, and then about a year later, the husband said to me, Matt, I think I'm gonna divorce.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get a divorce.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, What how and he and he said, How do the numbers look if I get divorced?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh mate, you got like you don't want to run the you don't want to base this decision off of are you financially better?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you've got to do what's right for the family first.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that was actually, I remember that being a bit of a what role do I play here?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I put the numbers and say, Oh, it's it's not as good, are you then gonna be in an unhappy relationship?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know what what does what does it come down to?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that I remember that one being a bit of a tricky one because I was like, I've also now look after your wife.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to be pretty impartial for the two of you now.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um they did end up forced, and I did speak to said, Look, I'm more than happy.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to work with me anymore, I can find another partner that's suitable for you to work with if you if you prefer.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: But she was fine.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: She actually just said, No, look, you know what, it's it's all good.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll keep as is.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that was that that was the kind of one where it was a bit tricky.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you also get um situations where parents are starting to fall quite ill for some of my clients and talking them through that and what that looks like from the financial side of things, like what support they may need to give to the parents, both you know, emotionally and financially, physically.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you do, I mean, you know, that to be honest, they are the bits I quite enjoy.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um when when you actually the moment you have a and actually when you finally have a real conversation with a client, and in it, and it's probably it was probably a couple of years into me doing the role that you actually suddenly have a real conversation with someone.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you've had that one real conversation, you go, wow, that's what this is about.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is honesty, that it's not about consolidating your pensions and all that shit.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's good to do, but that's not what we do.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And once you've had the you know, one then you're like, I want all of these conversations to get there now.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I want everything to go.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna keep pressing clients until I really do understand what makes them tick.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um well that you know, some clients probably aren't ready for that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, and actually, maybe they never became clients because of that, but I don't really want to just keep sitting down with people going, oh, you know, your pensions are doing all right.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: This trans this transactional sort of approach to financial advice.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's boring for me and it's boring for them if we have this like they because you know they don't want to just sit down and you know, they can log in online and see how the pensions are doing.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're when they're meeting you, when they're meeting the financial planner, they're they're they're building a relationship and you're with them at every step of their journey, someone trusted that they can turn to and talk to.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: For example, if they're thinking about um, you know, having a divorce.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a difficult conversation to have, but I think as a financial planner, you're going to be having those confid conversations a lot.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes you can push back, can't you, and say to them, look, you know, based on my experience of the conversations that I've had, the people who have gone through divorce, these are the things I think maybe if you haven't already considered, you should also consider um before, you know, I can give you the facts and figures, it's black and white, but you know, life's more complicated than that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my two cents, you know, and um, and here's some some uh signposting I can send you to if you're in an abusive relationship or something like that, because there are lots of things that can happen around financial abuse as well, not just physical abuse, but financial abuse.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about recognizing the signs, it's recognising people and their vulnerabilities around that vulnerable client side is a big, big piece at the moment, and that's a big deal.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those that are thinking about being advisors or are stepping into the role of financial advice, yeah, that is a big part of it, but it's not the whole thing.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're not sitting with vulnerable clients all the time.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: These people aren't always vulnerable, but it's about recognizing the signs and being able to signpost and do the things that you can do to do that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's the hardest part as well to add because actually it's very easy to just talk on a high level with people when you sit down and just talk about, you know, how's the pension doing?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: How's the ISIS doing?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really easy conversation to have.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that was what I was the first couple of years, that is what I was doing.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's as far as it was going.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't want to keep pressing someone.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: When someone starts to kind of shut her up, you're like, oh, they don't want to talk about it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: We'll move on.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you start to realize that that's honestly where it all gets better if you could keep pushing there.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that takes a honestly, it took me a couple of years, maybe even three years, to build the confidence to start doing that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the hardest part.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is the hardest part.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that then.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to speed through.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You went to St.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place head office, you worked in some head office positions, and then you moved across.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to fast forward a little bit.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: You moved across into a financial advisor position, yeah?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: A financial planner.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you started working for a partner practice as a financial planner, and you've been been a financial planner for the last seven years, yeah?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Roughly around seven years.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Coming on eight years.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now you mentioned there for three years, you felt like you were going through the motions.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: You felt like you were you were just going through the motions of what you felt that you needed to do when you were at client meetings or what you needed to do when you were to you know attempting to win new client acquisitions, etc.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you said it was about three three years.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So talk us back, you know, take us back.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: When did the penny drop?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: That it wasn't a transactional job, it was very much relationship-based.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that so uh to actually go back to the first few years, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been at St.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place head office and I saw I saw how the sausage was made, and it was a tasty sausage, and I thought that's what it was all about.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was about feeding clients the good sausage, and then you realize it's about how you sizzle the sausage, that's where this works for the relationship side of things.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I went out and I was like, look, what we do is brilliant.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you just sit down with someone, you have a nice conversation, you see how their day was, and then you say, By the way, we can set you up a really nice ICE.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, that's that's how it works.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then clients say, Yeah, nice ICE, let me do it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Then you find out that actually that isn't how it works.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can't just have a nice conversation and then put a product in front of someone and it and it and it happens.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that is what I was doing for those first couple of years, is you just had a good product and you put it in front of them and you think it's gonna work.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then there were just a few times, to be honest, there actually were just some times where for me it was honestly getting to the point where I was like, I can't keep doing this, mainly from a financial standpoint.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't earning enough money.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was earning probably first year, didn't earn any money really.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I can't keep doing this.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then you kind of go.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was a few meetings that I had when I'd kind of got to the point where I was like, I actually just this doesn't, this isn't working.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had a few meetings where I was like, well, look, if I'm not gonna be doing this anymore, I may as well just push this and see how far it goes.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I may as well just enjoy this meeting and just and really push and just see what you get from it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I know like there was this one meeting, it was before the end of the tax year, and it kind of I just thought, well, I'm I'm near enough at the end now, so I may as well just keep.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this meeting then ended up being an unbelievable meeting with someone who didn't really want to talk.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this person actually, I remember they they hadn't done a will, they thought they'd done everything, but they hadn't done a will.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And normally I'll be like, okay, we can do your will.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, no, do you know what?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're kind of acting as though you know everything about the financial side of things, but you've not done a will and you're worth a lot of money.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that is ridiculous.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm gonna press on this and I'm really gonna push.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then it came at the meeting, and it's like, yeah, wow, Matt, thank you so much.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wanted to do the second meeting, then we, you know, did a load of work off the back of it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, shit, okay.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is how this works, and then you have a few more like that.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then yeah, ended up things picked up from there.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what so was it the confidence to step outside of like a structure that you'd been taught or that you believed was the structure that worked?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a lack of confidence in your, I don't know, intuition to follow your intuition that you should be probing further and sort of positioning yourself instead of putting the client on the pedestal that actually you were an equal to that put?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can imagine that happens a lot.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine sitting down in front of some wealthy individuals.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just said that, you weren't even earning a great deal of money within your first 12 months.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's tough.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: You probably weren't swimming in cash, but yet you were sitting down with clients that probably had a few quid, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this inferiority complex, it's in this this uh feeling of um what's it called?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Imposter syndrome creeps in, doesn't it?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: We we put people on pedestals.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I used to put financial advisor.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: On pedestals.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, you know, nervous about talking to financial advisors.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my job to recruit for financial advisors.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that what kind of happened?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden you just it was 100%.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was putting the individuals on a pedestal.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, um, I had this belief, and I never and I actually, you know, you did go through training sessions when I started, and it was like you have to keep so you ask why.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: They give you an answer, you basically ask why.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you they give you another answer and you say, Tell me more, you know, tell me more about that.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: The the kind of classics.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what and why is that?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, My clients don't want to do that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: The people I'm sat in front of are millionaires, they're investment bankers.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to sit in a room and tell, you know, have someone ask them, tell me about that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, of course they don't want that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: They want someone who's gonna come in and sort their finances out, do the job and get out of there.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that and I find that is my fundamental belief.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that was what I was going in.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, right, let's talk about the finances, get some work done and get out of there.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then you realize that someone doing it themselves, they do have to pay more money to work with a financial planner.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you do have to actually justify why they would want to pay more money.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are just looking at you've got this amount of money over here, let me look after it and I charge you more money for it, that doesn't, it just doesn't work.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I and I but I was of the belief that I did put these people on a pedestal and I was like, they just want to come in, have someone do with the money, and that's it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because they know what they're talking about, they just need someone to do it for them.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then you kind of realize that everyone's the same, like everybody has concerns, even millionaires are worried about their money.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are worried worried even more than the people who aren't earning huge amounts of money because they've built this expensive life that they're now shit scared they're gonna lose.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when you then start to realize that and press on that, you go, okay, wow, this is a completely different part of this role that I didn't even know was a thing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably my own confidence got in the way in the first couple of years because I was like, No, I know what I'm doing.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know what I'm doing.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've been working at head office for ages, I know I know what I'm doing, but actually, very different thing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Once you get in front of a client, it's a very different role.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just yeah, building a bit of confidence to press on questions that are sometimes a bit awkward to press on.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had any training during the period where you were kind of finding your feet, like a lot of people do within their first couple of years?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: This assumption, and we talked about it just before this podcast, didn't we?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the chap I had on um from Octo members and the social post I shared, he turned around and said, There's not a financial advisor I don't know that's not swimming in clients.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now that could be true because I mean he runs Octo Networking members and he knows a lot of very senior financial advisors, and they could well be swimming in clients, but that's not to say that every new person that joins the profession is gonna be met with an absolute demand for financial advice.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, quite the opposite.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's still hard to develop the relationships, do the job, and find those clients.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was gonna pick, I was close to pinging that guy an email saying, look, if you're drowning, send them up, please do, because yeah, I'm more than happy to take over.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I'm not swimming in new like clients coming in.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: My phone isn't ringing off the hook with new people going, oh Matt, please come and work with you.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's still a slog.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that was also that's probably also caught me off guard a bit that you know, eight years in now, and it's I mean, it is don't go wrong, it is easy if I think back to the early years, but all of it doesn't people don't just start walking through the door because you've been doing it for a while.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: You still do have to think about it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, last year I actually probably let client acquisition slip a little bit because I, you know, again, I got a bit too confident and just thought referrals were coming in and they were just going to keep coming in.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So then you kind of stop asking a little bit because you think you now just get referrals in every meeting, so you stop really talking about it because you just get them now, and then all of a sudden I looked, got a few months into the year, and I was like, Oh, I've not had any introductions.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Probably should put that back on the agenda.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, it's you know, I'm not I'm I I don't know many people that are swimming in new introductions, to be honest.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to let's explore that a little bit then, because you've been at St.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: James's place now working for a partner practice as a financial advisor, but with that partner practice, you've now decided to step away from it and set your own partner practice up.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's your name, you know, above the door.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're still an appointed representative of St.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, but the buck lies with you, right?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to find your clients and you feel now that you are at a point in time where you've got the confidence to go it alone.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so and because actually, I guess the practice that I was in, there was never any support with clients anyway.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it had always been a case of um all client acquisition was on me anyway.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I did get through the practice was back office support.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to be honest, it just got to the point where I got to, I guess I got to a position where I thought actually, if I'm if this is now what the relationship is, it's back office support.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It probably slightly better off from a cost side of things to just pay for that myself now.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um we the the kind of team morale was good, but that also I think lockdown, possibly, I don't know if this was just for our business or everyone's business, but when you all of a sudden go your separate ways and you're all now working from home, it never fully came back, like the kind of team spirit.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, the between me and the other uh guys that were was running the firm, we were trying to bring that back by getting people in, but it never really fully came back.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone kind of had gone their separate way and was kind of doing their own thing.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And although we then came back and sat in the office, I don't know, it you you you know, it felt a bit more like there were between the advisors, we all had our own little separate businesses within the big business.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just thought, well, actually, this this might just be the right time then to officially have my own business.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that happens a that happens a lot in financial advice firms that's model is based around self-employed advisors because everybody's like their own individual, they're running their own little business and they're really thinking about themselves.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Culturally, you're not gonna build a culture of building a business when you're a bunch of individuals running your own businesses.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen that so much, and that's why there's a lot of financial planning firms don't grow very well, purely because they think growth is about taking on financial advisors who are self-employed, reducing the risk of salaries and all of that kind of thing.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: But what you forego there is culture.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not saying that for every every type of business.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know, but I think it's a you know, you're probably a small business.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a small business, it's tough, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and I think you also kind of if you are self-employed and you are, for all intents and purposes, running your own mini business, you then start to have your own ideas about what you want your business to do.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: But when you are part of a bigger practice, you have to follow some guidelines of look, you know, you can't just suddenly go off in this direction because it we need to align as a business, you know.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there were some things that I wanted to do, you know, even just stuff like with the website, with the promotional side of things, how I um position my business with prospects.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of started to have my own view.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm probably more of the type that I want to show a bit more personality rather than um have a company that's quite neutral, you know, not to go too far one way or too far the other way, just say I was like, I'm quite happy to go my way.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: If that's too far for some people on the other way, then so be it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like and that's one of the difficulties, isn't it?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think is brand.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the financial planning profession as a whole, it's a very interesting time because there are lots of people coming through that are looking at the financial planning profession and what it looks like, the brand of the financial planning profession, and they're saying, This is a bit boring.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: This doesn't talk to the types of clients that I want to talk to.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: This traditional vanilla, we're not going to go one way, white shirt, blue type.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's dying a bit of a death.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, there will always be clients that will want to want that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I still have clients that I will always put on a navy suit and a white shirt for.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that that's what they'll when I come in the room, that's what they'll expect from me.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's taken you a little while to build that confidence up, to build those clients up, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you've building these relationships.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Some of those some of those clients are, you know, blue shirt, you know, you know, the ones we just talked about, the ones that like the vanilla reproach and the ones that bought into the brand that you were under.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get scared though, that because you're now moving away from that firm and you're actually now going to set up your own partner practice?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you scared that by changing the brand that you might lose those relationships that you hold?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think the relationship lies with you and the person as opposed to the brand?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think because I've had those people long enough now, I would like to think that whatever the brand looks like, the relationship's for me.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they've seen me now for enough, you know, seven, six, however many years, that you know, what comes around it doesn't bother them so much now.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, it's you know, I also kind of think my my my view going forward is I want to take on people that are happy to work with me as my brand is now.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like, and if they need me to wear a suit with a tie to every meeting, then do you know what?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be hard work doing that for the next 40 years if I don't want to.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like putting a suit on, so maybe not just a suit, but I kind of want to just I'll be more myself in meetings because I've got to be doing this for 40 more years.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, in the early days, when you just need any client, you could you take on anyone, you know.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: If they want me to be like this, I'll be like this because I need clients.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you do get to the point where you're not so much like that, and you're like, look, if if you're not comfortable with me like this, then I'm probably gonna annoy you in some other way in the future.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's probably best we just don't work with each other.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's now more my mentality.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think all the clients I've got, I don't have many, I've only got 82 clients.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's not a lot of loads.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think they're all pretty happy with who I am, and I can give them, you know, I can see them enough to show them where we go.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And with the transition, I've kind of I've told I've started to tell some clients about it because it's um should be finished probably actually when this has gone out, it should be finalized.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've started to kind of say it to clients, but no one's even really asked many questions yet.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, so what changes for our side?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, uh, nothing really, just the name on the letter.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of been it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, we'll see.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe we'll speak in a year and I've like, I've lost them all, they've all gone.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've been I'm obviously doing a lot of work with St.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: James's place um on the um on their academy, and I've uh I've done a partnership with them and featured them.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the routes that you can go down, you you join the academy, you get yourself qualified, and you can either either go on and set your own partner practice up, like what you're doing right now, or you don't have the confidence to do that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you don't have the business plan, the transferable skills, whatever it might well be.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the options are is they find a partner practice that you can then sit underneath.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that partner practice might actually employ you.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they might employ you, or they might bring you on as a self-employed advisor underneath that partner practice.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, I've talked to many people that have gone through uh financial, you know, through through the academy, into firms, and then set their own partner practices up.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken to people who've gone into firms and gone employed or self-employed.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that comes up a lot is this point that you get to, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're working under a partner practice.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: You you are going out, and as you said, alluded to cut back 10 minutes ago, is that you were the one really building the clients.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't really giving you clients.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's obviously an agreement in place, a percentage pay away that you would give that partner practice to be able to tap into all the services that they provide you, right?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which sounded relatively limited.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, administration, power planning, branding, marketing, website, all those typical types of thing.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that comes up is that within the ecosystem of St.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, that you would then have to buy those clients from that partner practice to then be able to go and set your own partner practice up.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did that happen to you?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So mine, so I did have to buy my clients.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then you know they're given a nominal value based on the ongoing fees that are charged for each client.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually bought mine a few years ago, back in uh yeah, 2020.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I bought my clients.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the plan for me was actually to buy into the business.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the three um advisors, one set it up, and then the two of us that kind of joined him to set it up um as new advisors, our plan was always we get to a business value and then we buy in, and then the three of us kind of jointly own this company.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually had done the purchase um a few years ago, and the plan was then to that then be me kind of now joint owner.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then actually, I guess that was even more of a part of it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, actually, now I kind of own everything myself, I've got my mini kind of sub-business in this company.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I essentially am now on my own mentally, anyway.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I kind of feel like I'm just running my own business entirely now, anyway.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I might as well actually run my own business.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I did have to do a purchase.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the purchase is um it's made relatively simple from SJP side of things.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: They try and make it as simple as possible because they get it, it works.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it supports kind of everybody that's involved.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: The clients then get someone else who's keen and hungry to look after clients.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: The person, you know, who's either retiring or selling the clients gets value, the new advisor gets access to a load of clients that are ready to be seen.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, mine was obviously quite different because I just bought my own clients, but that was always the that was always the agreement from the start.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, look, I'll give you a business card, but I'll kind of set you up as an advisor under the practice on the basis that your payback to me is the the the purchase of these clients.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um what people struggle to get their heads around, I think, and maybe you can just articulate this in simple terms, is how do you buy your own clients?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to save a load of money up in your bank account and buy them?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or how does it work?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You see, you can do, but so I've got a loan with uh Bank of Scotland.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've just got a business loan with Bank of Scotland that I uh I borrowed X amount with Bank of Scotland and with that gave that lump sum to the partner um to then officially own my clients and their income streams.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't essentially, as an advisor at a practice, you don't actually own the income stream, you don't act you're not actually entitled to that income stream that you're earning from any clients.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So until you've officially uh officially owned them and a partner could gift them to them, they could just say, Well, look, you now own it, but yeah, typically you have to pay X amount and purchase it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say you're not owning that income stream, then in essence, all your earning is off the back of initial fees, then.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get paid it, but if you ever left, you wouldn't be entitled to it because the company, the the practice that you sit under actually owns that income stream.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so if you left, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of partners who don't make any, there's no purchases, it's just like, look, you've obviously worked hard to build that, it's yours, you have it.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but quite a few are set up in the way that they help young advisors get off the ground, get running.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and the kind of thank you for them putting that effort in is you then purchase those clients off of that business to then own them.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that hasn't that hasn't been a disadvantage to you, this journey you've been on through St.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, it hasn't give you sleep, sleepless nights.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: You don't regret going down an IFA route, for example?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, like, don't get me wrong, I always I quite so for example, when I was setting up the new firm Elmstone, I did go through the comparison again.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, look, I'm not I'm I love SJP, but I will I've in in the same way that I was with the practice, I was like, look, I will always be reviewing being part of this practice to being on my own.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is at the end of the day, this is a business.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I like the guys there, but you know, I'm not gonna do this if it's not right for me as a business.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when I was leaving, I then did also do the comparison with the IFA world, but for me, the outcome was best off staying with SJP.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the BSPF for me was a great thing.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like my plan is to at some point acquire another business within SJP.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would do that through borrowing probably quite a lot of money to purchase off of a partner that's retiring.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and that is one of the mega benefits, isn't it, of St.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: James's place is the ecosystem.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because the acquisition is a bit slicker and easier because you understand what it is you're buying, right?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the lend and the lenders understand our business.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's relatively simple to evidence your business to the lenders.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like essentially, you can just pull it all off the SJP system and say, here's my business, and they'll say, Yeah, we're happy to lend against that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, you you know what you're buying, and you're you know, you're given pretty good access to really pull apart a business, and there'll be quite a few, and we, you know, as a the company, we looked at a few and we were like, you know what, that's not worth it.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Once you start to pull it apart, you're like the service model here has been a bit, a bit kind of like archaic.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of paper.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's still some of the same problems that you're gonna have if you were buying a business outside of St.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just because it's under the St.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place banner doesn't mean that they've got slick processes in place for things like no paperwork, etc.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're reliant on the business itself.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's enough businesses that some of them are, you know, there's some of them have been doing it for 50 years, some of the uh uh advisors and yeah, some of those clients who've been with SJP for 30 years, back in a time when everything was paperwork.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have been pretty good at transferring over, some not so good.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um is there like a weighting system for this acquisition sort of approach?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do they sort of come to you and say, Well, you've qualified to be able to now buy businesses within St.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: James's place?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is it or or or does everybody have a bite of the cherry?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it ebbs and flows, I think.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like at the moment, um, there's probably more people looking at selling than there is buying.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the property market, right?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Rates are up, like the interest rate on my loan right now is pretty high.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, may not be the time that new people want to be acquiring a book of science because the cost of acquiring it right now is double what it was a couple of years ago.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so at the moment, there's probably more sellers than there are buyers, so you might have a better pick.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's typically the nice kind of balance that again at Shift is that there's typically pretty even kill.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's normally buyers, there's sellers.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want one, you do have to evidence that you can afford to buy the business.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so that's where it's a bit trickier if you're starting out.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can't go and buy this massive mega business if you've just got into advising because you can't afford to buy it.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: But you can slowly say, I'm gonna buy a small amount of clients and work with them, build it, and kind of keep doing it in stages.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's a huge, I mean, I've got a friend who's looking at joining um or becoming a financial advisor, and I kind of talked him through the SJP side, and then I've got another friend who's in IFA who talked him through the IFA side.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was saying, look, if you get into it, I would I'd try and you know, buy 20 clients as soon as you can at X value.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: If that's all you can afford, then buy two clients and just 20 people you can pick up the phone to and go and see and try and help out and try and get some referrals.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's quite simple to do that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: We go back to this idea that you know um advisors are swimming in clients, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was a good, you know, what you said there about you know the opportunity to buy clients as quickly as you can and just buy 20 at a time type thing.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Going back, do you think you'd have done that?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're eight years in now, you've slugged it out, you had a couple of years where you weren't earning great money, etc., and you were finding your feet, right?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's absolutely fine.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna walk into financial planning, be a financial planner, and absolutely nail it from day one.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't believe that happens.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've never seen it.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want people to understand that it's a slog.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk to advisors, and especially if they're going down a self-employed route, it is a slog.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard, bloody graft.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you really do want to write down a business plan, and you want that business plan looked at by not just the cur the firm that you're joining, because there might be potential they might blow a bit of smoke up your ass to get you across the line, but also to possibly reach out to other advisors or even friends and colleagues or other people that have run business and say, look, am I being realistic here around most people aren't at the early days?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Most I wasn't.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, do you know, just on that, while we're on this point, in the early days, and um, you know, actually, I did with my friend who was looking at kind of going into the financial advice world.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he was saying that he's been recommended uh to look at his current network and what opportunities are there.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, mate, do you know what?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I started out and they and I kind of went through my current network and what money you could make in your current network, none of it came to anything.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish I didn't even consider it.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um For one thing, you've just started out, and to be honest, you're probably not going to be very good.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you probably will make some mistakes and get a couple of things wrong and say, Oh yeah, that that we can do that, and actually you can't do that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do that with your nearest and dearest, they'll probably forgive you, but it's not the best look.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was like, what you really want to do is in the early stages just find people you can speak to that might be able to put you um in front of just having a conversation with someone else.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or like things like you know, small stuff like you know, a tiny 100 quid a month ICE or a bit of protection.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs a bit of critical illness cover, 15, 20 quid a month, that kind of stuff.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not going to be able to, you know, earn loads of money doing that, but it just gets you in front of people.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't want to make the mistake of being like, oh, okay, yes, I can go and see them and I can try and get a big pension from them, and I'll do a you know big critical illness case because I've got a new mortgage.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because it, you know, if it doesn't happen, you're then on the back foot big time.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: You need to kind of expect to be on the back foot rather than think you're gonna go and do loads of business from your five mates.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get that.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's some great, great advice and very honest as well.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: What in your on your journey then, you've you've obviously acquired clients.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: You built a client bank of like 83 clients.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's the what's the sort of average age of the clients that you've got in your client bank?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh mine are pretty much between 30 and 55.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Between 30 and 55.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: So not like your typical kind of wealth management clients, are they, right?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've got like there's probably about four clients.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've got I've got four clients that have retired.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of mine's accumulation side of things.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what, you know, if you don't mind me asking, what's what's the average investable assets of those clients?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh mine is probably now, it's funny because actually there's quite a few that skew it, it's about 350k.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is the average, yeah.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at people between the age of 30 and 55 that are either earning a lot of money or have inherited money.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Am I right to assume that?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it minds to me though, because actually you've got like the top 20% kind of have a huge, so actually the average is quite weird for me.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, although you say, you know, it's about 350, you kind of got like my top 10 clients have got quite big lumps with me, and then my bottom 50% have actually not got huge amounts.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so actually, there's not like of my 80 clients they've all got three grand with me.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually more like 50 have got 100 to 150k.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, 20 have got a few million.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Which is pretty normal.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's absolutely normal.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: When we break down a client bank with somebody, there's usually a percentile that are above like the five.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I usually say like what percentage is above 500k plus and what's a million plus?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's usually a few that are that are in that area, and then absolutely the average tends to get a bit lower as you go down the down the client bank and the different types of clients that you're actually working with, right?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, client acquisition for you, you've generated 80 odd clients, you're now setting up your own business.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the client acquisition side.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: What clients are you working with?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: What type of clients are you working with?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And why did you choose those types of clients?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, mine, so I started out um with investment bankers.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: All my so everybody, uh all my clients were investment bankers for the first probably five years, which is probably also why I just found it quite hard for the first few years, because they do want someone that is confident walking in that room.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just didn't have that in the right way.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but actually, lockdown helped me quite a bit because in lockdown, just suddenly started to get a few introductions to clients' friends, and they're like, Powers owns this business, and he's looking at um, you know, Bit Sermon with lockdown, wants to see what money's available, and then you go and work with this business owner who's an architect, and then you go up with this business owner who runs a distribution company.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually a lot of those were far nicer conversations for far better outcomes.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so now I'm to be honest, most of my focus now is on business owners, as probably most other financial planners are as well.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a lot of fun, business owners, also because they're quite sometimes detached from me of what I've found.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of the kind of the business owners now in my client book are a couple of them, but most of them are pretty detached from their personal finances.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, they they they see what's going through the business and they know there's enough money in the business that they're gonna be okay.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then you look at what actually they take out and what they've done with their own money, and it's not a lot, they they don't really do much.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: But because they kind of look at this business that they know is gonna be worth X million, and they're like, it's kind of fine.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of you can have a lot of fun with those kind of clients and really actually put some good work in to actually help them out, like really help them out.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's kind of been my focus now.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I can imagine like, and this is stereotyping a bit investment bankers, but a bit, yeah, stiff, a bit uh a bit of a hard exterior, a bit of an ego to break down and to push through, and not as willing to possibly show their true colours within that meeting, but also probably not as willing to introduce you to others, um, unless you, you know, really, really, really can prove, or unless you can do something for them, right?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um took a while to get referrals from those kind of clients.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Once you do once you once you have actually one because a lot of them they've got to where they are in that investment bank by being often pretty ruthless, I think.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like to to kind of rise up the ranks, they've they've put in some pretty hard graph.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then they kind of in the early meetings, they kind of or this is what I found anyway.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Other people, if I know somebody was an investment banker turned advisor and he told me it was easy, he was like, No, no, they're lovely.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Well, maybe for you.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, the first few meetings, they're kind of like see you as someone just um trying to get one up on them, is what I found.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: And once you kind of prove that look, this is I'm genuinely this is a mutual, we're trying to benefit each other here, um, then it all got a bit easier.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I like I like people who actually are fully focused on growing a business and they can just rely on me, saying, Matt, we've got X come in.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what you want me to do.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Business, I'm a I'm a business owner and I've I've now run multiple businesses.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always incredibly grateful when someone comes along and takes away the stress associated with things that I don't have the time to deal with, but are definitely on my mind.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: You hit the nail on the head about personal finances.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't take responsibility for my personal finances.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 41 years old.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've only actually just just literally bought a house.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I I I haven't I haven't I don't have a huge pension plan.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I I'm only now starting to look at that because I'm so excited about building a business.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's value in the business that you can kind of see.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like, I don't need to think so much about it because I can see what I'm building in front of me.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's not to say that it didn't bug me and it doesn't worry me and it didn't create an anxiety in me, etc.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when people within your business are all buying houses and I'm the business owner not buying a house, and I felt really less than.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there is a lot of insecurity and a lot of um anxiety when you're a business owner because you are managing those multiple plates.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I find with business owners is because where I'm now networking with a lot more business owners, um, everybody wants to help everybody else make money.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we all want to help, we all know somebody else that you can help.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we are in the mindset of helping others.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's what a real true entrepreneur is.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm gonna make some money.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna try and get three other people to make money as well.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I and and that mentality I've been building recently over the last year, and that's really like really, really been helping me.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you find that working with entrepreneurs does that?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do does it unlock doors for you that you that institutionally through investment banking weren't opened?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think so, yeah.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: And look, and don't get me wrong, I'm very early in this kind of journey of business owners.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this what I'm now for this year, this is going to be my kind of acquisition model, is trying to work out how's best to go about this.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, they, you know, business owners also talk with other business owners.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do something useful for them that takes a headache away, they're normally pretty well inclined to ping a message to so and so.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I actually have found though with business owners is uh you speak to their accountant because it's you kind of need to if they're a business owner to be able to do to do some real planning.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and their accountant then also looks after business owners.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of probably been the better channel for me, is then saying, right, well, look, if this you know the so-and-so client um has been working with you, is their accountant for a while and now they've come to me and I've kind of seen all these things they haven't done.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Can I show you what I've actually done to help them?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And is there anyone else in you know your kind of book of clients that I could help?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's probably been better rather than introductions from uh the clients themselves.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's been actually going through the accountant.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great bit, that's a great bit of advice.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I assume though, you actually get in front of those accountants in some way, see the whites of their eyes and build that relationship.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't just hide behind an email or anything.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's been lunch.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's been a lunch.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's been a lunch, do it over a lunch, and actually just try and say, look, can I can I take you through the process as an individual?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: And show you what it would look like.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of the accountants are also business owners.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: If they're in if they own their accountancy firm, they're they're in that same position.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're probably well, actually, no, do you know what?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: One of them wasn't.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't, they hadn't done all the all the um planning themselves, even if they were an accountancy firm.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um Is that do you do you identify opportunities where you actually help the accountant to how to form a better relationship with their clients or to help the accountant win more clients because of their education around financial planning and and how they can position it?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or just think of it.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mine has just been to help theirs.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than them winning more, it has just been to help their clients more and give them another kind of um level of their service.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not just a case of saying, Well, you've got money left over, you could think about pensions.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we've got money left over, you can speak to so and so.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's the positioning yourself to the to the accountant that's being like a partner to the accountant and um an extra service that sort of builds the deeper relationship for the accountant and their clients, for instance.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very nice.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I want to go.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of what I'm looking at this year, because that's you know, again, like I'm not saying I've got loads of accountants, scenario clients, but you know, where it's worked, it's worked pretty well.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's just trying to build on that, basically.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Double down on the things at work, you know, and this is what I'm this is what I'm doing at the moment.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying lots of different things, right?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: And some of them aren't gonna stick.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: So all of a sudden one sticks, and it's and it's and it's like, hang on, I've just generated 40 grand's worth of income within a month and a half, and that's just genuinely happened.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like and it's like that works.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna get on that, and I'm gonna double down on that for a bit.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna still spin some more plates around me, but I'm gonna double down on that thing that's obviously working because it's gonna work.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that has to do the things you enjoy.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like there's I know companies that do uh to be honest, I know companies that do like the LinkedIn thing and they they bang out loads of messages on LinkedIn.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I the last thing I'd want to do is spend my Friday afternoon just sat copy and pasting LinkedIn messages.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you write, I could probably earn more money if I did that because they all seem to be pretty pretty successful off the back of it.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't be I I just wouldn't want to do that on a Friday afternoon.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also about finding out the things that actually you're looking forward to, like taking someone out for lunch or taking, you know, finding out what their accountant likes and seeing if they want to go grab a coffee.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because actually their accountant runs a similar business to ours.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um the more person the more personalized approach, basically, it seems to suit you.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just in respect of LinkedIn, LinkedIn is an incredible source of business.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is like networking on steroids.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to your personality, your brand, your relationship building skills, it's a great platform to showcase it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that and uh, you know, it's about utilising different marketing strategies on there and not wasting your time.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: You could go on there, take an hour to construct a message, send it, and not get a response.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you recorded it something like a podcast and then cut that up into segments and put that out over a period of a week, for example, then not only is somebody building a relationship with you without actually being in the room with you, um they're also kind of keen to reach, they do tend to reach out with you after a while, the more they see you because they build that trust without even meeting meeting you.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like an unsolicited cold message can often not get that back unless you are giving them something.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to give people something.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: So in recruitment, right?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: You give a client, a client would be a financial planning firm.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: I might message and say, I've got a power planner whose charters looking for this salary in your area.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: Would you be interested in seeing them?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, hi, Mr.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Client, I've got nothing.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can I have some vacancies from you?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about going to somebody with something.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the tools that we've used uh to great um effect is something called LinkedIn Helper.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you might want to check out an automated bot called LinkedIn Helper that personalizes messages, follow-ups, creates lists and structure, especially if you put it with sales navigator as well.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying like on a Friday, you could construct a message.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: That message then gets personalized based on the information that's actually on the profile.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bot, it's automated.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you might take you might take a couple of hours to build a list of the right people, but then you just let the bot do its thing and it sends the messages for you, and it can go into a process where it follows up with those individuals as well.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you've there are ways to think to do things smarter.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a huge part of this as well, is making things easier for you as a because you know that sort of thing is a kind of numbers game.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: But even if you're using LinkedIn helper to, let's say, for example, you wanted to target accountants, so you made a list of accountants, you then use the LinkedIn helper to reach out and make a connection request.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: And upon that connection request being made, not only are they then part of your network, but then you can automate a follow-up message a day later that says something like, Here's a here's a guide to how to introduce financial planning to your clients.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then another one can come up afterwards just saying, Oh, here's my calendar link.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to talk to you uh about the services that I offer and how I can support your business.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: So LinkedIn used in the right way when you're not, when you don't have a great deal of time, automate it.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's power in building your network.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I would then say spend your time building content that adds value and showcases your personality and who you are.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the big bits because you've done that obviously quite well with yours, is actually if you so like you know, for for like you said there, if you were to reach to a financial planning firm and say, I've got ex-candidate, I think the first thing they're gonna probably probably do is check out, have a click on your profile.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if your profile is empty, I mean, and and I would probably do this.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: If I went on someone's profile and they they were empty, I'd be like, okay, I might message back, I might not.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I was on the profile and I saw all this great content that was educational, useful, and people that are active in the space with good engagement, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll I will actually have a listen to them.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I would approach it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, I think this again, this is for this year.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna have their own company with my own stuff.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: A focus of mine will be content.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's some there's some advisors that are good at it.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some advisors are brilliant at it, some IFAs that are brilliant at it.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, there's some IFAs that I'm gonna, you know, try and copy a bit of their model of how they did.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think they do it really well.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's my advice, right?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Watch somebody else who's doing something really well, copy it and do it better.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I went on a podcast called Recruitment Mentors, right?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a call, so it's at the time it was called um the recruitment roller coaster where they interviewed um uh leaders or those that own businesses within the recruitment uh profession, right?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that's it from a networking perspective, right?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you connected to a guy called Hishem Azuz, Hishem is the recruitment mentor's owner.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: That guy knows so many recruitment directors and owners of recruitment businesses.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you got in contact with him and said, could we partner on financial planning for the recruitment profession?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any business owners that you can introduce me to, right?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can I come on your podcast and talk about the importance of financial planning for business owners within recruitment and the financial planning of their staff?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: That is a niche that nobody is targeting.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I've just given that away.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get onto this before this podcast is released.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure do it.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, because there is a shitload of money in recruitment and a shitload of people who are trying to buy houses, who don't know how to invest their money, they'd rather go and do the champagne lifestyle.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: But well-being and mental well-being within recruitment is a big thing, and financial well-being is obviously connected to it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of young people earning decent levels of income and not doing something with it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, connect that's a that's one of the best bits of advice, and that's through recruit uh through through obviously LinkedIn.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: But back to my point, I went on his podcast, he interviewed me, I found it very cathartic.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I enjoyed the process and thought, no one's doing this in in financial planning.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I did it.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I did it within financial planning.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's gone down training and development route, whereas I'm going down brand, brand marketing partnerships, and studios and and academies and stuff like that.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you just look at what someone's doing and think, how can I emulate that and how can I make it better?
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: And my second bit of advice around it is don't try and reinvent the wheel.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have podcasting services for a reason because we've tried and tested, and I know how it works.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's time consuming, for example.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: So really Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just put your put a marketing budget aside, make sure it's a chunky marketing budget, and use that marketing budget.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Try not to do it all yourself because you'll take you away from what you should be doing, which is winning client relationships.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's a bit of my advice around the content side of it.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't go down a wormhole, you know.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and I do think content is a big thing, and especially for someone starting out, there's a lot of there's a lot of acquisition models that will give you quick results, right?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they're good, and you have to do them.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that might be literally, and that might be pinging a message on LinkedIn to someone saying, Look, I've seen you worked at these companies, and actually, this is something this is something that we did do, and this is actually a case to be honest, how I kind of started out was a bit more of the cold stuff because I had nobody else to go to, and you'd find a good pension scheme that um had an option to transfer out at some you know beneficial rate or there's something to it, and you'd then just search on LinkedIn by anyone who else was at the same company in that same, you know, same years, and then you'd ping them a message and grab a coffee.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of quick results, but that requires you to keep doing it.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think then the other thing is, and this is what I wish I'd done in the early days, I wish I'd stuck at kind of content side of things and the slow burner side of things, and actually like the accountants, because it's unlikely, right?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna speak to an accountant and say, Look, I can really help the people that you work with.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely can really help them.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a coffee.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna then go, Yeah, yeah, here's my client book.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pick up the phone and call them all.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're not isn't, I mean, wow, it'd be awesome.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I don't know.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just haven't found those accountants yet.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it's unlikely.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: There'll be a percentage that will.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: But there'll be a percentage that will.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be a percentage that will just there'll be a percentage that come to you.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you put con so legal in general, right?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now uh building their podcast for them and doing other video work with them.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did I reach out to Legal in General telling them I had a videography services?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't even advertising videography services.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: They came to me.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: So every now and again a unicorn comes to you, right?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because of my content, yeah.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Came from inbound LinkedIn.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Inbound LinkedIn.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's obviously they've seen, so they've seen your LinkedIn, I guess.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: They love my podcast.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: They she listened to my podcast a few times, she loved my podcast, um, realized that nothing like that was going on in legal in general, and worked out that on the intermediary side that they could do something similar, tried it herself, reached out to me, we started talking, lo and behold, bam, we're in there doing the podcast and stuff, and like working with them in other ways as well around other video services.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: And continue to work in more and more ways.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but did I but did I tell did I tell you about the two years that I made no money?
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's yeah, yeah, that's the thing, right?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did I tell you about the time that I put a podcast out every single week and made no money?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or put content out every week and did and made no money.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: So every now and then something comes in and lands on your lap.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: But as I said to you a minute ago, right, you need to reach out.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things you said there is this consistency with things.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you took five accountants every single day and reached out to five different accountants in a personalized message every single day, right?
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's 25 a week, that's a hundred a month.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, do you reach out to a hundred accountants a month?
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got time to reach out to five a day?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's your bit there's that's the bit that people lack is that you think if I don't get an instant Response straight away, therefore it's not worth my time.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: You have to build the habit of outreach.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same as content creation.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I I wish I did it sooner.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it and it and you know what's funny about this is it's the kind of thing that a lot of people know, but we still don't do it.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know it.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: I because last year I said, wow, I wish I'd really been focusing on more accountants.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: You get to the end of the year and I still hadn't messaged any accountants about it.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke to a few because they came up through clinse.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: But this year, that is going to be a focus on it.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it simple.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's why.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's a because the idea you have in your head of what you're going to do is so overwhelming, you don't do it.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: The only way you build a habit is to make it simple.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to go running every day, you go to bed with your shorts on and your vest on and you put your shoes by the side of the bed.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't go to the habit is a good book.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: You don't go to the gym to run on a r on a running machine.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: You put your shoes on, you walk out the door and you run.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly the same with content creation.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: We can overcomplicate something that need not be overcomplicated.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to do it and get going and start it.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: And as you've read with Atomic Habits, for example, it's like one of my favorite ever books, you know.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, life is a series of habits to make it bloody easy.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: And also start stacking them.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're doing things with accountants where you're sending them, where you're adding them to your LinkedIn, well, then you send a message, right?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, then you might add them to an email database.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you send them an email.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, then you might record a personalized video and send it in a message to them.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: You just keep doing add Exactly.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: They know people podcast is a great one because I've got like 7,000 listeners listening to me every single every single month, right?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: In a room and I've never met them.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like when we first spoke, I you kind of feel like I we've had a few chats in the past.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh no, yeah, honest, Sam.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've I've spoken to him for hours.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've sat and listened for hours, but you kind of feel like you've had that.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about podcasts.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: I quite often just chuck one on you.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like you're just sat in the room with whoever's on that podcast having that conversation.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're a part of it.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and it's raw, and it's raw and it's honest.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not a big fan of the podcast where they just fire questions and that's it.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm a long I'm a long-form content person, and not everybody is.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just want to go on there, 25 minutes, job done.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I tend to like to build a relationship with somebody, and I think that shines through.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you're either a listener who enjoys that or you're not, you go and get your content somewhere else, you know.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: I do also think with the with like you said about um the kind of consistency and simplifying this stuff.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: I also think um it's about not trying to do too much.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually what I mean by that is I remember in my early years of advising, it was like, right, you need to have you need to have 10 meetings a week.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: When you have no network, it's very hard to get 10 meetings a week.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you get to the point where you're like, well, I'm not gonna be able to get 10, so what's the point?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas actually, I then changed it, and I don't know what year this would have been, but I actually then just completely flipped it and was like, no, I want three meetings a week.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I want.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Three a week.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, I must be able to get three a week.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you get two in, and then you're like, shit, I don't really know who else to call.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you will find one, you can get to three, and then you suddenly go, Oh wow, yeah, I've actually had three meetings every single week, I've had three.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go, well, let's let you let's make it four.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: One thing is not to kind of if you're starting out in this, don't think you're just gonna fill your diary and be back to back.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, look, if I can just get one person every week that I sit down and have a coffee with, that's what I build from.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get two the following week.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's probably the same thing with like the content.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I need to do a podcast every day.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can't do it, so I'm not gonna do a podcast.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, okay, do one a quarter.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the that's another thing.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: I and I say this to people that are kind of starting out in their early years, is like, look, make a number that you know you're gonna hit because you need some confidence.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's got it does have to stretch you a bit, but you do need to know that it's something you can get to because it's crazy when so and and people like when I was struggling, people are like, Well, look, fill your diary up, you're not seeing enough people, have more meetings.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Where from?
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you what do you want me to do?
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just suddenly like walk into a coffee shop and sit on someone's table and class out as a meeting.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's about doing the numbers that you can do and building from that, and that's where then the consistency comes from.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really, really, really good advice.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to have very high expectations of myself, high expectations of what I think I should achieve based on this kind of warped vision of what other people were doing.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And someone said to me, and I was at a real stressed-out point in my life, and someone said to me, Sam, have you ever thought about lowering the bar?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What do you mean?
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Well, if you were a high jumper and you set the bar really high to the world record height, you would reckon you're gonna hit it.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, No.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Well, should we bring the bar down a little bit lower and let's just start winning?
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Okay.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that very conversation of lowering the bar and lowering the expectations of myself changed my life.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It changed my life because it perfectionism left me.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: This this unrealistic expectation of myself and others left me, and I started winning and I started having those conversations.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I started enjoying my life again.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, your advice there was absolutely bang spot on.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Lower the expectation of yourself, especially if you're in the early stage of your career, because you you can't relate to 10 appointments a week.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Someone might be like, Yeah, do 10 appointments a week.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally unrealistic.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even have 10 friends.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are we gonna do?
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can't find that.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I and do you know, a part of it for me, I'm quite a confident person, naturally.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and apart, and you're right, lowering the bar feels like you're conceding.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of feel like you're giving up a little bit.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh no, because if they can get 10, then I should be able to as well.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, you need to start winning.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need to drop it to a number that you can win and go, boom, smashed it.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Next week, done, smashed it again, smashed it again, right?
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's add some more into this.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then you put the bar up a little bit, and before you know it, you will be at the number that you need to be at.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also about I remember once this um old advisor, and he's still kicking on.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, he's if I said his age, you'd know he is, because probably not many people advising at his age.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, he was like, Look, it's a slow burn, don't rush it.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need to be seeing people and dealing with them well, and that will grow a very good business.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you try and rush it, like if you try and have 10 a week, you're gonna just sat down with people that are just garbage and there'll be no good for you as a business.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: What's the point?
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You might as well actually see people that will help.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Do it slowly, do it the right way, and you'll build an unbelievable business.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then that was also once you kind of put in that lower the bar bit, do it the right way, start winning, before you know it, it all starts to click.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate talking to you.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You've been very honest and you shared very deeply about your career and your current situation as well, and the things that work and the things that don't work.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think anybody listening to this should be picking up um the realities, I think, of being a financial planner, especially for yourself over the last eight years.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and thank you for sharing um the insight around St.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place and your sort of journey within there as well.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, you know, uh more people need to be talking about the realities of what go on as opposed to this kind of hearsay gossip and things like that, which often get sort of screw sprawled across social media negatively or positively.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's never any kind of real story.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: This was a real story, so I appreciate it.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Mate, thank you.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got to commit to this role as an advisor, you've got to understand what you're getting into.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, no one's ever, I'll be very honest if anyone wants to follow up and ask me any questions, but you do need to because actually that's the worst thing.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you have an expectation, it's a lot harder, then you're gonna you won't last.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know what you're getting into, and you've got to be prepared for it and understand it.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's how it all all makes sense and work out.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's been very good to talk.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um cheers.