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AstraZeneca's Dave Fredrickson is on a Mission to Improve Cancer Care · Get Real with Jim Weiss

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As you guys know, I interview a lot of people
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: from healthcare and pharma. And, you know, pharma gets a
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: pretty tough rap. You know, we don't really see, I think,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: all the good stories and all the good people enough
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  Speaker 1: talking about the good work they do. And I really
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  Speaker 1: think you're going to dig this next podcast with Dave Fredrickson.
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  Speaker 1: We all grew up in the industry together working with
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  Speaker 1: a purpose, which is ultimately for AstraZeneca and the work
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  Speaker 1: Dave's in, You know, to pretty much come up with
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  Speaker 1: as many cures for as many types of cancers as possible. Dave,
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  Speaker 1: welcome to Get Real. Thanks for coming all the way
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  Speaker 1: out here. Was pharma always the plan or was there
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: something in your formative years that informed this trajectory and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: your ambitions?
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  Speaker 2: Pharma was not always the plan.
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  Speaker 1: Right. Did you even know what pharma was when you
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: were a kid?
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  Speaker 2: Not really.
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  Speaker 1: Did we even really have it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it existed. It was a thing. We just weren't
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: necessarily paying that much attention to it. No. My first
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: significant job out of college was in the Pentagon. And
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  Speaker 2: I was working in the office of the Assistant Secretary
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  Speaker 2: of Defense for Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And I pretty quickly realized that I did not want
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  Speaker 2: to be a PhD in... fill in the blank foreign studies.
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  Speaker 1: And so like, you could have been like Jack Ryan.
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  Speaker 2: I totally could have, but probably not like the field
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  Speaker 2: agent one, like the desk agent, Jack Ryan.
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  Speaker 1: Wasn't he that a little bit?
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  Speaker 2: He was, I think that he had a lot more like.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: You got a little Jack Ryan to him.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. The, uh, but I decided that wasn't what I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to do. I had a great opportunity then to
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: go work in consulting and in consulting, I got on
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the job training in business and I worked across a
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  Speaker 2: bunch of different industries.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I worked in telecommunications. I worked in consumer packaged goods.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I did work in newspapers and press.
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  Speaker 1: Was it McKinsey?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It was a company called Monitor Group, which has been
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  Speaker 2: subsequently acquired by Deloitte. And I loved the work that
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  Speaker 2: we were doing. I got a chance to learn about business.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I fell in love with business. And then I started
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  Speaker 2: doing work in the life sciences space. And actually, the
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  Speaker 2: first client that I worked at was Merck. And it
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  Speaker 2: was at a time when Merck had this just explosion
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  Speaker 2: of all these new medicines that they were having to commercialize.
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  Speaker 2: Was that the statin era? I mean, it was an
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  Speaker 2: era of the COX-2 inhibitors. It was an exciting time.
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  Speaker 2: But to get to the how I found life sciences...
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  Speaker 2: The business problems across industries were the same, but the
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  Speaker 2: meaningfulness and the purposefulness of the work that we were
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  Speaker 2: doing when I saw that this was about health of
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  Speaker 2: patients and serving society, just all of a sudden transformed
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  Speaker 2: the day-to-day of business questions into something that I wanted
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  Speaker 2: to be a part of. And so I've been with
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  Speaker 2: Life Sciences since.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, so oncology, so how did that happen? And
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: was it personal and important enough? Did you have something?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I know in my family, we had my
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  Speaker 1: grandmother died of colon cancer and, you know, I saw
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  Speaker 1: some of these things happening and then I got into
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  Speaker 1: it when, you know, even further when my mom passed
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  Speaker 1: from lung cancer, though she'd smoked all her life. Did
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  Speaker 1: you have anything personal like that?
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  Speaker 2: I got into oncology and cancer because of the work
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  Speaker 2: that I was doing with Genentech.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So it wasn't a personal experience. I mean, since then,
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  Speaker 2: like all of us, cancer, unfortunately, has become personal for
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  Speaker 2: all of us. I mean, whether it's ourselves or loved
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  Speaker 2: ones that we have, cancer is something that we've all
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  Speaker 2: experienced and lived with. But one of the first major
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  Speaker 2: clients of mine that I started working with was Genentech,
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  Speaker 2: who I then subsequently went to.
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  Speaker 1: Go work for.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the way you got into the industry.
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  Speaker 1: That's the way that I got into ecology. Who was
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  Speaker 1: your client?
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  Speaker 2: Well, Genentech was my client.
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  Speaker 1: Well, who?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, who specifically was there? I started doing a lot
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  Speaker 2: of work within Ian Clark's teams. And I worked with
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  Speaker 2: a guy by the name of Varun Nanda, who did
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  Speaker 2: a lot of work on the early Avastin days. And
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  Speaker 2: John Orwin, who was doing a lot of work.
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  Speaker 1: One of my oldest friends.
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  Speaker 2: In the HER2 space. And Mike Miller.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Know them all.
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  Speaker 2: I know. I know. That's because, really, if you take
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  Speaker 2: a look back at that 2000s Genentech, commercial business group.
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  Speaker 2: You know, so many of us are now doing things
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  Speaker 2: in the industry and it started with Genentech. It started
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  Speaker 2: with Art Levinson. It started with Sue.
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  Speaker 1: It started with Ian. That's when I was there.
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  Speaker 2: They established a culture of in business for life.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I never left actually. I still haven't left.
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  Speaker 1: I think I'm still consulting with Genentech. I mean, they really,
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  Speaker 1: you know, kind of did change the game. You know,
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  Speaker 1: in cancer, right? I mean, did you feel that when
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  Speaker 1: you were there? Did you know that?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was special.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It was a really special place to be. It was,
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  Speaker 2: it started with the culture of science.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You didn't go into an executive team meeting without first
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  Speaker 2: starting with science. Always, no matter what you were talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Sales forecast, start with the science.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that was the Art Levinson belief, right? Follow the science,
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  Speaker 1: you'll get to follow the data and the science will
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  Speaker 1: get to the right outcome. Sue was still there, right? Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: Sue was leading all the work that was happening.
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  Speaker 1: Was Mark Watrous there? He was there when you were there.
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  Speaker 1: So these are like all the people I grew up
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  Speaker 1: with too. It was a special place. And I think
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  Speaker 1: science was at the center of everything they did. I
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  Speaker 1: think that When companies focus on that, which I think
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  Speaker 1: was interesting, you just said you moved the headquarters near
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  Speaker 1: the science, which I assume was purposeful based on the
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  Speaker 1: Genentech experience. What is it about the scientist, like when
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  Speaker 1: it really works and scientists collaborate with marketers because sometimes
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  Speaker 1: they're mistrustful? Yeah. How do you get that to link
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  Speaker 1: and sync? How do you get scientists and marketers to
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  Speaker 1: work together? All right.
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  Speaker 2: This is a super question, Jim. And in fact, if
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  Speaker 2: I think about part of our secret sauce right now
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  Speaker 2: at AstraZeneca.
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  Speaker 1: Right, which is kind of on fire, right? In a
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  Speaker 1: good way.
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  Speaker 2: My partnership with Susan Galbraith, who runs R & D,
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  Speaker 2: is one of our core strengths. And it's part of
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  Speaker 2: the culture that we expect that whether you are in
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  Speaker 2: the business unit or in R & D, we are
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  Speaker 2: all On the oncology team, we're one oncology and we
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  Speaker 2: work together. So to specifically answer your question, one of
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  Speaker 2: the things that we have really come to realize is
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  Speaker 2: that our job is not to just have great science
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  Speaker 2: so that we get into the New England Journal of Medicine.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: That's great.
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  Speaker 1: Which you want to do. That's great.
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  Speaker 2: That's good. But that's like the starting line.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Where we're trying to get to is medicines to every
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  Speaker 2: patient across the globe that can benefit from it. What
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  Speaker 2: that means is that we've got to be thinking about
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  Speaker 2: not just how do we have a successful clinical trial,
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  Speaker 2: but how does that trial then translate into the real world?
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  Speaker 2: What are the things that make a difference in the
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  Speaker 2: real world? Well, if we're going to use diagnostic testing
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  Speaker 2: and approaches, it can't just be something that's good for
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  Speaker 2: the trial. We need to think about decentralized. How are
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  Speaker 2: we going to deliver that test and China, Japan, Europe,
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  Speaker 2: the U.S., Latin America. So that work that's happening today
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  Speaker 2: where the scientists and the clinicians are working together with
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  Speaker 2: the business teams to identify how can we design the
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  Speaker 2: diagnostic work so that it's just seamless. It moves from
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  Speaker 2: approval into delivery. Same thing with endpoints. Same things with
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  Speaker 2: evidence that we're generating for the dossiers that we put
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  Speaker 2: together for payers. All of this work that we're doing,
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  Speaker 2: I think, has been a dramatic evolution in how we
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  Speaker 2: and I approach our job. How do we think so
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  Speaker 2: much more about everything that it takes to get patients
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  Speaker 2: access to our medicines? That means detection. That means diagnosis.
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  Speaker 2: That means payers have to be covering all the work
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  Speaker 2: that we do. And that starts by business partnering together
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  Speaker 2: with science.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I kind of remember when my era at Genentech
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  Speaker 1: was Herceptin, right? So that was the first time you
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  Speaker 1: had a diagnostic that informed a therapeutic. And that has
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  Speaker 1: evolved incredibly since then. Diagnostics, you kept mentioning it. I think,
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  Speaker 1: are they, and inevitably I was going to ask the
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  Speaker 1: question about AI, is that going to change the way
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  Speaker 1: we think about cancer therapy? I would think so, right? Sure.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, already today, diagnostics have dramatically affected the way
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  Speaker 2: that we treat cancer. I mean, cancer, our goal, our
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  Speaker 2: ambition as a company is to eliminate cancer as a.
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  Speaker 1: Cause of death. But there's no one cancer, right?
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  Speaker 2: This is the point. That's exactly it, Jim, right? So
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  Speaker 2: when we say that we want to eliminate cancer as
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  Speaker 2: a cause of death, and that's true, but cancer isn't
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  Speaker 2: one disease, it's many diseases.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And the way we make progress against these many diseases
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  Speaker 2: is to really specifically understand why one patient's cancer is
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  Speaker 2: presenting in the way that it is and how do
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  Speaker 2: we help her or him treat that. So diagnostics is
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  Speaker 2: one really core way of delivering on the promise of
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  Speaker 2: personalized medicine. Now to your AI question, diagnostics, if you
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  Speaker 2: go back to your Herceptin example, that was about tissue
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  Speaker 2: sample from resection, putting it into a slide that the
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  Speaker 2: pathologist reads after it's been stained, and they count up
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: how much color they see of HER2 versus non-HER2, and
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  Speaker 2: they determine HER2 positive, yes or no. I mean, I'm simplifying,
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  Speaker 2: but that's kind of... of what's happened. Today, what we're
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  Speaker 2: doing is computational pathology. And for our antibody drug conjugates,
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  Speaker 2: that same slide, we're digitizing it. And we're having actually
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  Speaker 2: the artificial intelligence read the digitized slide. It looks for
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  Speaker 2: features that the pathologist unaided isn't able to see on
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  Speaker 2: their own, but the pathologist together with the agent is
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  Speaker 2: able to see. But right now, it's looking very promising
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  Speaker 2: that we can identify through computational pathology patients that will
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  Speaker 2: benefit from medicines much more so than those that are
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  Speaker 2: biomarker negative by that same computational pathology. This is great, right?
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  Speaker 2: This is what we want to be.
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  Speaker 1: Able to do. Because you can give it to people
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  Speaker 1: and it may not work or it may cause side
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  Speaker 1: effects that won't be worth the payoff.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, is that... So this big news we heard
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  Speaker 1: out of ASCO about KRAS, which is on a lot
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  Speaker 1: of cancers that have been really hard to treat, is
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  Speaker 1: that another... Is that advance enabled... a lot by diagnostics
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  Speaker 1: and Molecular capability.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that is.
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  Speaker 1: We're here now when we weren't before.
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  Speaker 2: Part of that is diagnostics. But I mean, to Mark
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  Speaker 2: Goldsmith and the guys at Revolution and gals at Revolution Medicine,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, what an awesome day for them.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll come on here.
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  Speaker 2: And they had a huge standing ovation, which we've had
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  Speaker 2: the opportunity.
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  Speaker 1: You've had it. We have.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You've had it.
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  Speaker 1: We have. You've had more than one, I feel like.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we had one that was really substantial for one
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: of our medicines.
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  Speaker 1: Right, I remember. Does it take a small company to
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  Speaker 1: do that? Is it harder for a giant company that
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: has all these priorities and you're playing to shareholders? And
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: then I know you partner with a lot of these companies,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: so that's a lot of the way we get that done.
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  Speaker 1: Is that the way it's going to continue? I just
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: read today something about healthcare and life sciences finally back
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: up on the upswing. Right? We're finally, you know, we
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: were not in the best place coming out of COVID.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: But now it seems companies are really getting to these
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  Speaker 1: breakthroughs and having big IPOs again. How do you guys
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  Speaker 1: work with the smaller companies?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's two questions you asked. On the
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  Speaker 2: first one, I want to be really kind of definitive.
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  Speaker 2: I think our scale is an enormous advantage.
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  Speaker 1: Right. And reach, right? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, I mean, on two dimensions. I mean, one, we have...
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  Speaker 2: the resources to be able to deploy capital against a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: lot of different ideas. And the reason that's so important
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is that we know that it takes multiple new types
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of medicines being given in combination in a personalized way
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  Speaker 2: if we're going to cure cancer. Cures come when we
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  Speaker 2: find it early, when we diagnose it precisely, and we
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  Speaker 2: deploy combinations of medicines against it. Now, how do we
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: work with smaller companies that are focused in particular areas.
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  Speaker 2: We're out scanning the globe now for that. We have
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  Speaker 2: six strategic research hubs, two in Europe, two in the U.S.,
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  Speaker 2: two in China. We're coming back to China, but not yet.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that a big reason that we do
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that is that we know that science does not know borders.
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  Speaker 2: Right now, there's great science happening in all of those areas.
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  Speaker 2: And by having research and development expertise in those areas,
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  Speaker 2: we're closest to also being able to do the search
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: and eval work that we need to do in order
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: to find the next great thing. So we're always looking
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: for what's going to be the next standard of care
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: where we may not be playing in. And how do
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  Speaker 2: we make those choices? It's got to be something we
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: think will be best in class, and it needs to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: be moving fast.
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  Speaker 1: I know you're a real global company. I think your
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: revenue is even kind of split down the middle, right?
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: It's not all in America where a lot of companies
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: have their revenue, right?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, less than 50% of our revenue comes from the US.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Remarkable.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Our diversity, both in terms of geographic
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: diversity and therapeutic area diversity, is very much a strength
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of the company and something that we... have created with intention.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And you don't seem afraid of China. Everybody's like, China, China,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you know, but aren't you the biggest company there?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: We're the largest multinational in China.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, we are. So clearly you see that market
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  Speaker 1: as one that is important, A, to be in, and B...
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  Speaker 1: To work collaboratively.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. China's important because there's an enormous population and
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: a growing focus on modernizing their own FDA equivalent, modernizing
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: their own payer reimbursement. But what you hit on, which
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: is really, I think, the thing that's exploding now, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you can't go a week without reading a headline about
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: some company that's partnering with China, The science in China
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: for the rest of the world right now is.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: On a tear. And that's good, right? It's great. You
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: mentioned cancer cures. We still have more and more people
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: getting diagnosed younger now, which is scary, especially with colon cancer,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I've heard, and so many others. Do we think that's
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: because of environmental stuff? Is it because... of earlier detection.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You mentioned diagnostics. Maybe we're finding this stuff sooner, which
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: isn't a bad thing. Why are we seeing more cancer,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: it feels like?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you make an important point. We are seeing...
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: That cancer detection in younger people, GI cancers, GYN cancers
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: on the rise. I think that there's a myriad set
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: of different reasons for that. I do think that environmental
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: could be some of those. I think detection could be
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: some of those. I also think that we are doing
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a lot more research and development on earlier stage cancers. Why?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Because we're starting to be able to detect them earlier.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so if the only cancers that you can find
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: are late stage cancers, well, that's where your research and
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: development work goes. But as you open up the aperture,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: because we're detecting it early, now you've got the ability
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to start doing research in those spaces. And so I
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: think that we're also looking for earlier presentation of cancer.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: We're using blood-based technologies to get there. And I think
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: that that's one of the big pieces that's happening. You
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: were kind of getting, though, to something that I think
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: is important, which is that I think our ability to
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: make progress against the research and development side of cancer
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: is improved the more global the effort is. I think
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: that the change at a patient level happens at a
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: postal code or zip code level, right? So the delivery
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: of healthcare is highly local. But I think that our
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: ability to be able to get through the breakthroughs happens
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: when we've got really bright, great, smart people across the
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: globe working together on this.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So what out of ASCO excited you most? I know
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: you guys had cool data from AstraZeneca, but what were
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the big exciting things you saw there that maybe surprised you?
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, for your viewers who all know or listeners
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: who all know about antibody drug conjugates, you know, the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: idea here is that we can more precisely deliver chemotherapy
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to tumors, right? So if chemo- Well, I helped launch it, so- Yeah, no, right.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Seattle Genetics.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Right, right, for sure. And one of the pioneers within
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the space. But now, remember, there was a period of
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: time where there's kind of a question of, okay, are
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the antibody drug conjugates, are they as exciting as the promise?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: And I think there was a period of time where
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the promise was outstripping the performance.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: And now that happens, right?
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: But I think that, again, persistence, we've got a number
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: of antibody drug conjugates that we're advancing forward with pace.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: You see competition that's doing that. And so when you
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: start to see that many players now working within this space,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: patients will win. The competition is good. The innovation is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: moving at a high pace, like That is something to
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: be really excited about because for all of the advancements, Jim,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that we have made in cancer, and we've made so
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: many that we should be proud of.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: If you have immunotherapy, does that play a role in
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the story?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Our strategy that we've really been looking at to, you know, again,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I talked about the components early, precise, but then the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: two things that we're trying to do directly kill cancer
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: cells and harness the immune system to fight the cancer.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: It's that set of direct kill together with immune system
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: that is really what's advancing. Direct kill, there's multiple ways
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: of doing that. Antibody drug conjugates, targeted therapies work in
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: those domains, epigenetics work there, radioligands. These are all kind
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: of direct kill approaches. And then there's harness the immune system.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: So we've got immuno-oncology, T-cell engagers, cell therapy.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And so all of that work is trying to find
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: the different ways to put these together, deliver it early.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: And we think that those two strategies, you can see it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: It's demonstrated. You see more and more studies reading out
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: at this last ASCO in early bladder cancer and early
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: GI cancer. I mean, these are pioneering studies that we've
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: done that I'm really proud of the work.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: It's incredible that a company your size is doing that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to. I think that That cell therapy
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in many respects brings the promise of this highly customized
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: approach that we can take towards that. And I think
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the more and more we learn about individual drivers of cancer,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the more personalized that we'll get with all of the approaches.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And we think we can. scale that. Yeah, that's a.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Huge part of what we're trying to do. So, I mean,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I think today, one of the big limitations that we
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: have with autologous cell therapy is exactly that, the scale, right?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: The cost of goods is high. The ability to democratize
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: care with cell therapy is challenged. Which is why off-the-shelf
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: or allo-based or whether also in vivo-based approaches are so attractive.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: That actually brings the possibility of these new modalities, these
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: new approaches like cell therapy of being far more better
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: suited to address a diverse global population. And as a
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: company that operates across as many countries as we do,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: we're really interested in that. So we are pursuing multiple modalities.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: that harness the immune system, that's where our scale is
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: something that really advantages us.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Right. And I was wondering why suddenly the big companies
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: are into what I launched at Dendreon, you know, like
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the individual, you know, sort of, or Cartees, right, that,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you know, BMS bought. And again, it's like anything, I guess,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: when you look at the GLP-1s, you know, they've been
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: around a long time. They didn't really come of age
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: until the last few years. So I think that's what's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: exciting about this. But I always want to ask, are
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: we getting ahead of ourselves? Is the hype bigger than
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the hope right now? Oh, no. Or are they beginning
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to come together?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I think that right now, with a lens toward really
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: improving global outcomes for cancer patients, I think that our science...
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: is living up to expectations. There's so much more that
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: we need to keep doing. I think one of the
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: biggest challenges that we face is how do we make
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: sure that we're able to deliver this great set of
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: innovations to the patients who need them most around the globe?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: That's what my teams are focused in on. That's why
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I think that the work that we do within the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: business is so core to the mission that we have,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: which is not just about great science, which we have
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: to do, but then also getting great science to the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: patients who can benefit from it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So for all these great things that pharma does, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I've lived it, why do we get so much flack,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that the first part that I would
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: say on this is you are absolutely right that the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: pride of all those of us who are in industry
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: is so high yet you're pointing out that there's a
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: disconnect sometimes between the pride that we feel of the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: work that we know is purposeful when i.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Tell people at a cocktail party what i do they're
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: like you know yeah why are your prices so high
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: you know i mean i have a blast with that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: i mean i've yeah that's what i spend well i.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Think that there's a couple of things on this i
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: think one of the things that we have to keep
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: in mind is is that um We have to be
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: compassionate that when people are sick, when people are in
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a place where they're not feeling well, that outlook on
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: life is not always the same as when you're feeling
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: healthy and in a good spot. So I think that
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: it's important for us to always remember that we have
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to look at the world through the eyes of patients. Now,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I will say to this particular point, I think that
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: patients are incredibly grateful for the work that pharma does.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: As a general rule, I think that patients are really grateful.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Many of them have seen the impact that it has
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: on their lives. And I think that there's a lot
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: of gratitude. I think that one of the challenges with
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: healthcare is you're asking healthy people to pay for the
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: healthcare for the sick. I think that within that context,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: sometimes we need to do a better job, Jim. And
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: this is what we're not doing a good enough job on.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: We need for people to see healthcare as an investment.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: We learned this during the pandemic, a sick society grinded
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to a halt. And that if we look at a
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: healthy society is one that is more productive. A healthy
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: society is a nation that is going to have a
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: better opportunity to grow. It's going to have happier people.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: It's going to have better cared for families. Then health
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: care isn't a cost line item, but it's something that
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: actually becomes a national policy priority. It's something that becomes
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: an area that we want to invest behind. And I
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: think that's where the dialogue absolutely needs to shift.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I do feel pharma in, you know, half glass full
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: is moving toward a prevention versus treatment model, right? You know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that it's exactly about coming up with therapies that will
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: make us healthier longer. And then we're not at the end,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: you know, treating people with chemo.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, listen, I think you have proof points
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: that what we're trying to do, you know, whether it was,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: you know, finding breakthroughs in hepatitis B or the work
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: that was happening with the COVID vaccines. I mean, obviously
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: those at a time and a point were massive breakthroughs
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and that created an opportunity then to sustain investment into
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the next areas that those companies wanted to go into
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: and be able to make progress against. And so, What
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: is really clear is that our goal, my goal, is
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that we always want to have new standards of care
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that society is going to value. If we're able to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: come up with great science, great medicines that society values,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: then there's not a debate about whether or not it's
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: worth paying for this. I think the debate comes if
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: we're trying to bring Me Too medicines that aren't moving
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the needle. That's a different dialogue. The way that we
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: stay away from that is do everything that we can
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: to make sure that if a medicine is it's got
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: to be best in class or it's got to be
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: first in class or ideally both.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: If you can do that, that's that that's really. And
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: those are ones where we get then lined up together
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: with society.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: So for these kids panicking about AI taking over their roles,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll take them here. We'll take them in pharma.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: We'll take them in healthcare. Because I don't think you
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: can have an AI nurse, I don't think, or an
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: AI doctor, or an AI researcher. I do think the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: thing we need are more people going into our field. Oh, yeah.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And that's definitely something I assume AstraZeneca's helping with. Not
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: only by hiring people, but encouraging the field and supporting
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: organizations that recruit. Because we've got to get people excited
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: about life sciences and healthcare again.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do. And I think that we've got a
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: great opportunity for it, right? I mean, if you're interested
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: in AI, if you're interested in tech, if you're interested
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: in data science, I think that it's a lot more
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: exciting to do that in service of curing cancer than
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: it is getting more... more consumer products sold.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's, which is good too, but
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: this is back to my consulting experience and, you know,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: kind of my own lived experience here. I think, though, Jim,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: the key thing, I mean, listen, let's just talk about
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: the marketer of today, much less the marketer of the future.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Good segue, because I have a couple of questions.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right. Well, I mean, so the marketer today
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: is going to know how to work alongside AI.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I just don't think that it's the right mindset of
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the AI is going to take my job. There's going
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: to be two types of marketers, those that understand how
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: to work alongside AI and those who don't. And those
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: who don't, I don't think are going to have jobs.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, they got to leverage it. It's like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: any other tech. I mean, it's more powerful, but I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: kind of have the same attitude. Your journey at Genentech
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and AstraZeneca has been marked by increasing levels of leadership.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You've moved up, right? A, how'd you do it? And
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: how did you adapt through the levels and challenges? And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: maybe were there some surprises as you kept... Did you think, oh,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: be careful what you wish for? Are each increasing level...
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: What are the pros and cons? Yeah. Well....
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I think one of the key things that I've done
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: in my career that I'm really grateful for is that
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I saw that a series of so-called lateral moves was
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: what was going to get me the experience set that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I needed in order to be able to be valuable
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to the company. And what did those look like? Well,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: when I was at Genentech, that looked like realizing that
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: when Roche acquired Genentech, Genentech went from being a U.S.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: company to a global company. If you want to be
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a part of a global company, you probably need to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: get out of the U.S.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That was a requirement, I think. And not everybody
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: wanted to do it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Well, at the time, it wasn't necessarily a requirement. But
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: for me, I looked out and I said, okay, I'm
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: now part of a global company. Time to get out
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: and see the globe. So I moved to Spain. and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: worked in Europe. It was, by the way, as a sidebar, like,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: How cool is that? It was the best. It was
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: like three and a half of the best years of
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: my professional career.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Spain's a good place to go, right?
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're going to pick an external assignment, I
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: highly recommend Spain.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Right, because you get the siestas and all that cool stuff.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we slept all day.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, no work being done there whatsoever. You eat well.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: You sleep, you don't do any work. No, the reason
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that Spain is great is that it's a wonderful place
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to take your family. It's got advanced science and medicine.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: It also has a really great standard of living that
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: was there. It's in the middle of Europe. It was super.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Then later in my career, I lived and worked in Japan. Again,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: realizing that within a global company that it's great to
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: have experience within the U.S. and Europe, but we just
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: got done talking about the role of Asia and the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: importance of international. And so, My experiences working across the globe,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: working in a number of different areas, I think has
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: really put me in a position where I can also
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: relate to the people that are working for me.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally get it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: And in the organization.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I worked overseas, I get it. And I do think
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: that's a real important point. If you really, really want
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to manage all of the world, you got to go abroad.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: sit in other parts of the world and see how
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: it works.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard, by the way. I mean, if
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: you have a partner or if you've got a partner
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and a family, they've got to be a part of
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: that mission too, right? I mean, that's got to be.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: It's a cool ride.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: It is a cool ride.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, the guys I know who've done it have
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: gone the farthest. I mean, you know, in my experience,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: when I look at it, who are your mentors and
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: how do you pay it forward?
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Well, my first business real hero is named Joe Fuller.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: He was the founder of Monitor. He's now at Harvard
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Business School. I just was always impressed by how he really,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: really encouraged us to look at the world through the
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: eyes of the client. And as a consultant, that lesson
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: was a remarkable one. Art Levinson, absolutely a hero. Great
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: science is great science, but we've got a job to
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: make sure that we're delivering that at that postal code level.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And those were the people that really created the greatest
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: foundation for me of the work that we do today.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: And it's been a pleasure to actually take a lot
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: of those lessons and bring them into AstraZeneca.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite vacation?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Favorite vacation with family and some beach setting. I like
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the plan, complete relax on vacation. I'm not like the
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: adventurer vacation type to the same degree. I mean, I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: like the adventure.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: No zip lining?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Well, that's as like an afternoon activity. Zip line's cool.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: But like, I like to go somewhere where like the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: goal is to read a couple of books and to
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: sit by the pool, like where the most stressful thing
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: you're going to do is make it to lunch for
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the day. Like that's a good vacation.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: That is a good vacation. If there was an album
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that was the soundtrack to your life, what would that be?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a super question. Um, you know, I, I,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I recently was asked what was our, um, soundtrack walkout
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: music for AstraZeneca. And I gave Tom Petty, running down
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: a dream.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Which I really.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: It's wild how many different answers I get. Yeah.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Which I really love that. And I'll tell you the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: reason that, that the reason that song is so cool
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: is it's about like, just like the perfect day and
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: like you're in the midst of it. And, you know,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: he's singing about like how, where just the future looks
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: so bright. And it's full of optimism. And optimism is infectious.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: And I try to bring that to my work that
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I do. I hope that I'm able to give that
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: to those who work with me. And I appreciate it
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: when people give it back to me. Right. Because I
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: think the more that we can be positive about how
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: many things that we can create that are really special
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: and transformative, the more progress we'll make.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you guys are really running down a dream.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: We are running down a dream.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: It's cool. Yeah, we are running down a dream. Perfect.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Last question. What's something you're getting real about right now?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Because this is about getting real. Is there something you've
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: come to terms with or decided this is how it's
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: going to be?
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Well, at work, we're real about AI.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: We are real.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: We have incorporated an expectation that AI is going to
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: be part of how we transform the business from discovery
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: to development to delivery. We are holding all of our
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: employees accountable for accreditation in getting their own skills up
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to where they need to be. We're investing real dollars
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: in making sure that we're able to deliver against that promise.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: We do not see it as hype. We think that
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: life sciences is the killer app for artificial intelligence.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Right. That's so true.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And we intend to get very real about making that
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: a reality. Um, and I think that, uh, I think
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it will be. It's going to transform things in ways
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: that we haven't even contemplated yet.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Is there some way you're using it that's been cool
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: for you? Yeah, it's... Writing or... I do.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So I've gotten into teaching myself first and foremost how
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: to code using AI. I don't know anything about coding,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: but I've gotten myself with Claude teaching me how to
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: use AI code writing tools to build some tools for myself.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: So I've got a couple of agents that I use
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: right now that are helping me to put together decision-making memos.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: And you can work on them and say, look, I
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: want the, you know, devil's advocate position to the one
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: that i'm about to take construct the argument against me
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and so it's been a really great opportunity to find
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: a robotic sparring partner.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to meet dave ai right um there's
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: a gym ai by the way i've had it for
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: a couple years.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah how's it how's it dude does it perform really well.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I actually think it may be doing better than me
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: oh Well, maybe I'm AI. What do we really know?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: We don't know, actually.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: We don't really know. We don't know. Thanks for coming, man.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: It has been absolutely my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: This has been great.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You're the best.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Keep it up. Thanks, Jim. Hey, everyone. Thanks for watching.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you take the time to listen
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to this and tune in. So please subscribe, follow. We've
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: got a lot of amazing guests. You're going to learn
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: a lot, and you're going to feel a lot better
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: because you did it.