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Transcript

Nolan’s Odyssey Problem · Project Geekology

0:00
SPEAKER_06: Howdy y'all, welcome back to Project Geekology, episode 173.
0:04
SPEAKER_06: It's been a long time that I've been away, at least.
0:07
SPEAKER_06: Um the other co-hosts have have been dutifully taking the post uh these past few weeks, but I am back, at least briefly, um, for this exciting podcast on the Odyssey.
0:20
SPEAKER_06: It's been an Odyssey just getting onto this show.
0:22
SPEAKER_05: I am one fourth of your hosts, Dakota, and I'm joined as always with Anthony and yes, welcome back, Dakota.
0:30
SPEAKER_05: Welcome back, Jen.
0:31
SPEAKER_05: Um, we're we're glad to have you here.
0:34
SPEAKER_05: Yes, Rich and I, we have been holding it down.
0:37
SPEAKER_05: Past couple weeks, we have been releasing some some fun podcasts, fun episodes.
0:42
SPEAKER_05: Uh last week we covered Spider-Man brand new day, so that was fun.
0:47
SPEAKER_05: But yes, we can't do this alone because our next host is Rich.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: Super excited to be part of the Fantastic Five tonight.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh or at least uh Herbie adjacent Fantastic Four.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh and uh rounding out this trio that is able to actually speak because they have the intelligence to do so is Is it me?
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm Jen.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I'm here with my baby Stellan, who's starting to open his eyes.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: It's really scary, hoping he falls back asleep so I can stay here.
1:22
SPEAKER_06: Why don't we actually jump into uh what we've been up to the past couple weeks, uh Jen and I specifically, because we've had a lot going on.
1:32
SPEAKER_06: Um so yeah, we had our baby on July 13th, and he is waking up now.
1:37
SPEAKER_06: You could probably hear his little coos and uh slurps in the background of our audio.
1:42
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, he's been uh the biggest handful that we have ever had to deal with, and it looks like he's getting ready to uh upset this podcast from the get-go.
1:53
SPEAKER_06: But um, yeah, we've we've been it's been really hard.
1:56
SPEAKER_06: It's been probably the hardest thing that I've ever had to do, honestly.
2:00
SPEAKER_06: And I've done some difficult things, but um, I love him, and I hope he grows up to like the things that I like because I can't wait to show him.
2:08
SPEAKER_06: But uh yeah, what are we what have we been up to, Jen?
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I've actually been up to um making a person, shooting them out of my body, healing, and I started a letterbox uh list because we've been watching a lot of movies together, actually.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I actually for once know what I've been up to because I have letterboxed.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Is it letterboxed or yeah, it's letterboxed.
2:29
SPEAKER_03: Are you gonna like print uh the covers of the movies and put them on a whiteboard to tell people how many movies you watch?
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's actually my big plan for this year.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, awesome.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Um so so far for the list of movies we've watched, well, we've watched two seasons of Sopranos, we've been watching the OC, and we watched two seasons of Cheers, but I've decided to turn my attentions over to the world of cinema once again.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So we've got um Spinal Tap, one and two, The Bird Cage with uh Robin Williams, Party Girl with Parker Posey.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: We did a couple Disneys, we did Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Cinderella, and The Lion King, and we also watched The Wolf of Wall Street.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: I just asked someone this trivia question two days ago while on a road trip across the country.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh Dakota, I'll ask you, what is the profession of Carla's husband on Cheers?
3:22
SPEAKER_00: He hasn't been watching it, it was just me.
3:24
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
3:24
SPEAKER_06: Uh Jenna's been in a weird position where like she's been able to actually consume media.
3:28
SPEAKER_06: Um I've been given shifts that like I'm either just too exhausted to do that, or like the only thing I've really watched has been Ted Lasso this past week.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were watching Ted Lasso.
3:40
SPEAKER_06: We've been watching uh the first season of Ted Lasso, which has been fun.
3:44
SPEAKER_06: And I didn't know you watched all those movies.
3:46
SPEAKER_06: That sounds like a lot of fun.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, you have the easy shift.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Do you have when he's sleeping in the morning?
3:51
SPEAKER_06: Right, but I'm also dead to the world, so I my mind's not working enough to watch movies.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: So wait, the setup that we have is It's crazy.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Dakota.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: So the baby doesn't like to be put in his bassinet.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Whenever we put him down, he starts screaming unconsolably.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Like he unconsolably or inconsolably?
4:09
SPEAKER_03: Inconsolably.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm not an English teacher.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Inconsolably.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: So basically he'll only stay in the bassinet for maybe tops like 40 minutes to sleep.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: And then neither of us is sleeping because it's next to our bed.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: So what we do is I chill with him downstairs during the night shift.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: So like after the podcast, Dakota's gonna go to bed and I'll stay up with him until around 4 a.m.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: So I'll have like a cup of coffee in a little bit, and I just stay up with him to chill.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Then Dakota gets up at 4 and stays with him until I wake up.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: So all night we're just watching movies.
4:38
SPEAKER_06: I have actually been enjoying enjoying my uh my mornings a little bit.
4:44
SPEAKER_06: Uh this past week I've finally gotten into a rhythm where I can like start um enjoying something.
4:49
SPEAKER_06: And I have picked up um Final Fantasy XII, uh video game that I played extensively when I was, you know, uh in middle school.
4:59
SPEAKER_06: Uh or maybe high school.
5:00
SPEAKER_06: I don't know, I forget.
5:01
SPEAKER_06: But anyway, it's been a while.
5:02
SPEAKER_06: It's been a really long it's it's a 20-year-old game and it holds up really well.
5:06
SPEAKER_06: I'm really enjoying it.
5:07
SPEAKER_06: You know, while the the the short few weeks that I'm off of work uh with the baby, this is um giving me something to live for.
5:14
SPEAKER_06: I I also watched uh I think my first movie since you know, outside of the Odyssey, which we went to the theater for.
5:20
SPEAKER_06: My first movie um that I've like sat through alongside the baby was Bram Stoker's Dracula.
5:28
SPEAKER_06: I I watched that this morning.
5:29
SPEAKER_06: I don't know why.
5:30
SPEAKER_06: On a whim, I decided I want to watch this movie that I've never seen before that is potentially horror and loud, but this guy can sleep through anything unless it's a bassinet that he's lying in.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Um he could sleep through the Odyssey.
5:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we could have brought him to the Odyssey and like that polyphemous scene, which is as long as he's being held, he'll be fine.
5:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but anyway, that's that's what we've been up to.
5:53
SPEAKER_06: Don't want to hog it the entire time.
5:55
SPEAKER_06: But um, yeah, we we've been having a good good time being parents.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Baby Tim.
6:00
SPEAKER_06: Um and we'll at least I will try to um be back on the show for a couple, you know, for the the the foreseeable future.
6:08
SPEAKER_06: As as much as I'm like capable of.
6:10
SPEAKER_06: And Jen will maybe I don't know.
6:15
SPEAKER_06: We'll figure it out.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:16
SPEAKER_06: He might not let Jen stay for the entire podcast.
6:18
SPEAKER_06: He might wake up and uh, you know, we gotta switch it off.
6:21
SPEAKER_05: But that's that's what we've been up to.
6:22
SPEAKER_05: What about you guys?
6:23
SPEAKER_05: Um how about you, Rich?
6:25
SPEAKER_05: You you've been you were on a trip.
6:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just got back from Cleveland and Pittsburgh, where everybody wants to go uh during the summer.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh but actually I had a blast.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: It was amazingly fun.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: So Cleveland is like New York if you just took two-thirds of it's like Thanos showed up and just went snap.
6:46
SPEAKER_03: So like their major roads in downtown Cleveland have like no cars like in the morning at nine o'clock.
6:52
SPEAKER_03: It's the weirdest thing, but everyone's actually super nice there.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh I've never so I traveled to go see the Mets play in Cleveland and then the Mets play in Pittsburgh.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: And then we fill our time with other like sites.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: So we went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I got to see uh we went to the Christmas story house, which was actually really cool.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh oh, that's nice.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: Got to see the lamp in there, and it's one of the only museums or exhibits I've ever been to that you're able to touch everything.
7:22
SPEAKER_03: So they actually let you like touch the f you sit on the furniture and you pick up like the bowling ball, and they have like the gun there and stuff.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: So that was really cool.
7:31
SPEAKER_06: Careful, you put your eye out.
7:33
SPEAKER_03: And in Pittsburgh, we got to go.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: They they have these crazy hills and mountains, so they have this thing called the Incline, which is like uh an old actually, if you've ever seen Mr.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: Rogers, Mr.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Rogers actually wanted his Charlie car to be the incline from Pittsburgh, because he's from there, but they didn't they thought it would be too too like area specific.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: So the compromise was that the trolley cars, the train cars in Mr.
8:05
SPEAKER_03: Rogers' neighborhood are the actual are replicas of the trolley of the incline trolley that goes down the mountain.
8:14
SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's cool.
8:14
SPEAKER_06: I know exactly what you're talking about.
8:16
SPEAKER_06: I I I had family who lived in Pittsburgh when I was a kid, so I I was there, you know, every year or so.
8:23
SPEAKER_06: But um yeah, that's that's awesome.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I got to go to the Heinz Museum.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: I got to learn about, you know, my one of my favorite things to put on ketchup.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean uh to put on hot dogs, which are my favorite.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: So we were we stopped by some random hot dog places on the For Rich, his like hot dog is the condiment.
8:39
SPEAKER_06: Ketchup is is you know, it's really what I want.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: It's really what I want.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: And uh excitingly, I'm uh I'm crushing my total from last year.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm uh I've already had 70 hot dogs this year.
8:52
SPEAKER_03: And uh I'm sorry, I lied, I didn't update my list.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm at 72 hot dogs.
8:57
SPEAKER_03: I stopped at a a little place called Do Little Station, uh which is right outside, and we got to see some I got to see the uh how to train your dragon dragon.
9:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh there's just literally this place was just random old abandoned train cars, and then randomly giant dinosaur statues, and they had the Jurassic Park Jeep, uh, which I got to like get inside.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: It was it was it was really a weird place.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: Driving across driving from New York to Cleveland, it was a wild experience.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I I had a great time, got to see a couple new ballparks, uh, and I'm I feel ready and refreshed to talk about our topic tonight.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: But before that, let's hear what Anthony's been up to.
9:46
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you uh Rich and I have been whole enough on this topic, right?
9:49
SPEAKER_05: Like we were supposed to cover it like for a couple weeks now.
9:52
SPEAKER_05: I've actually I haven't had too much going on.
9:55
SPEAKER_05: Uh I have actually been playing Final Fantasy myself.
9:58
SPEAKER_05: I've been playing Final Fantasy XIV.
10:00
SPEAKER_05: Uh 14.
10:01
SPEAKER_06: Oh, the online game.
10:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the MMO one.
10:04
SPEAKER_05: So I've been I've always like wanted to I've tried to play it and usually the times when I'm playing it, something else will like catch my attention and then like I'll just not play it anymore.
10:16
SPEAKER_05: Um this this time like I'm making like an effort to I actually like create a character and like level them up.
10:21
SPEAKER_05: Um like I've done several World of Warcraft characters where I've like leveled up to max level.
10:26
SPEAKER_05: I'm like I can at least do like one Final Fantasy character, especially like I you know I hear that the story is like really good, especially once you start getting into like the expansion.
10:36
SPEAKER_05: So I I really want to get into that.
10:39
SPEAKER_05: But yeah, I've been playing that and uh and so I was popping between Overwatch and World of Warcraft.
10:45
SPEAKER_05: Now it's like Overwatch Rivals and Final Fantasy 14.
10:48
SPEAKER_05: So but yeah, no, I've been I've been doing that and I saw Spider-Man again, but in IMAX.
10:56
SPEAKER_05: So because the they when it first came out it wasn't in IMAX because of the Odyssey, but now that that like deal for the IMAX was over, they brought Spider-Man to IMAX.
11:07
SPEAKER_05: So I was like, you know what, I I want to watch it again in IMAX.
11:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, check it out.
11:11
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: So did you see the Odyssey and Spider-Man in IMAX?
11:14
SPEAKER_05: I did see uh the Odyssey in IMAX, yes.
11:17
SPEAKER_05: Nice that thing that that thing was.
11:20
SPEAKER_05: I didn't get to see it in 70 millimeter though.
11:23
SPEAKER_05: That was like No, I didn't I didn't get to see 70 millimeter either.
11:26
SPEAKER_05: Finding that was like so it was so tough.
11:29
SPEAKER_05: Like the tickets instantly sold out.
11:31
SPEAKER_05: And like the closest one is like an hour away.
11:34
SPEAKER_05: So it it's it yeah, it wasn't feasible.
11:37
SPEAKER_05: I was like, regular IMAX is is good.
11:40
SPEAKER_05: So that this was but yeah, speaking of Odyssey, I I don't have anything else going on.
11:45
SPEAKER_05: I don't know if you all have anything else you want to add.
11:48
SPEAKER_05: We can start our topic of the night, which is the Odyssey.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: We could start our topic of the night, but I'm gonna go to the Bathroom and Tinkle real quick, which we'll cut out from the podcast and post that it.
11:58
SPEAKER_03: Be right back, guys.
11:59
SPEAKER_05: Oh, we're leaving at it.
12:01
SPEAKER_06: So let's talk a little bit about The Odyssey by um Homer.
12:07
SPEAKER_06: Uh adapted by Christopher Nolan.
12:11
SPEAKER_05: Not to be confused with Homer Simpson.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, you know, it is it is, you know, her adaptation is so it is written differently, uh, the language is different.
12:23
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's something that is a little off-putting to me, is just that change, you know.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh so it's not the director.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that that type of language really kind of goes a long way to making you feel like it's a different time period.
12:38
SPEAKER_06: Um I I think it was uh it was Emily Wilson's adaptation uh of the uh Emily Wilson's narr not narration, um translation of the Odyssey.
12:48
SPEAKER_06: And it wasn't significantly different than you know, other versions of the Odyssey as far as I'm aware.
12:57
SPEAKER_06: But the movie was very different from uh pretty much uh many of the translations, and I think that that is the issue that she was having.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: I really liked Emily Wilson's review where she said there was no sex and the food looked disgusting.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: What a review, honestly.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Did she say I would be embarrassed to be a part of this or something like that?
13:22
SPEAKER_06: I haven't looked into um, I forget if I what what what particular changes did she make to the source material that I didn't really I didn't read the adaptation thing.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going by honestly the way that it's portrayed in the movie, but in terms of just like the uh the accenting as well, I mean it was a little weird for me to have like Tom Holland, for example, with you know, I would have liked the British accent instead.
13:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean it does modernize it, but it modernizes it.
13:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, sure.
13:55
SPEAKER_06: Yes, that's that is that is the the point of her translation.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: It's just something that I don't really get down with.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: I'd rather I I'd rather be transported, and part of that to me is the language as well.
14:05
SPEAKER_03: I know that it makes it more accessible to people overall, but you know, just uh a couple phrases here and there I think would make a big difference in how how it's portrayed and how it comes off the screen, and I think that it just kind of chronologically took me out of it.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Does the original translation have somebody get these beggars out of here?
14:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
14:30
SPEAKER_06: I love that line.
14:31
SPEAKER_06: Um there's a lot to love about this movie.
14:34
SPEAKER_06: There's um my dog crying in the background.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of noise that we're hearing to the podcast.
14:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we we we have a lot of baggage going on right now.
14:42
SPEAKER_06: But I as far as the Emily Wilson thing goes, I don't I mean, I understand your rec your preference for um a more traditional translation of the you know the Homeric poem, but I don't believe that she's changed the story at all.
15:03
SPEAKER_06: Um which I think ultimately her problem is that she ch that Christopher Nolan changed the story of the Odyssey um a little bit, you know, and I think in meaningful ways, you know.
15:16
SPEAKER_06: I I think that is uh something that we should touch on.
15:20
SPEAKER_06: Um and we don't have to go crazy about like things that he changed that you know shouldn't have been changed or whatever, but I think that there are changes that he made that actually change the fundamental aspects of what make the Odyssey the Odyssey.
15:33
SPEAKER_06: And I I those I want to push on uh just a little bit.
15:36
SPEAKER_06: But um ultimately I I it's it's really hard to find fault with this movie, um, especially if you're not super familiar with the Odyssey itself.
15:46
SPEAKER_06: You know, like if if you've if this is your introduction to this story, it's epic.
15:51
SPEAKER_06: It is it is the the craziest movie you've you've seen in years, you know, like it's it's a really um insane journey.
16:01
SPEAKER_06: And that's what the Odyssey is.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about my family.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: So my family, you know, we're we're we're simple folk from the Bronx, New York.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: The education is lacking in that borough, unfortunately.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And so no one in my family knew what the Odyssey was or what Troy was.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And I tried to just like break it down to like, you know, with the horse, the Trojan horse, Achilles with the ankle, and my dad was like, that's where that phrase comes from.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: I never knew why they called it an Achilles heel, I just thought that's what it was called.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know, these are who this is who we are.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean I knew what it was because when I was a kid, I really liked reading like stories like this.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Um you're you're picking the cat up too.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: The whole crew's here.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, so my brother and his girlfriend wanted to see the movie The Odyssey with us, and I was like, oh, if you want, you can watch Troy beforehand, because it's the Trojan War.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: So you'll know what the Trojan War is, you'll know what the horse is, a little bit about um Odysseus.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's not like a huge role in that movie, but you'll know a bit about him.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: And my brother and his girlfriend saw it, and they came to me and they were like, Wow, Troy was great.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: The ending was so unexpected.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: What a like, what a plot twist.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what are you talking about?
17:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's like watching the Titanic and being shocked that it went down.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: What what was the surprise ending?
17:28
SPEAKER_00: They thought that Hector and Achilles were gonna team up like it was the Avengers or something and become friends and go against Agamemnon.
17:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well that didn't happen.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: So they were really shocked when when Hector and Achilles finally fought.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: That is yeah, they really thought that through the cousin uh Brusseus that they were gonna become friends and they were all gonna team up against Agamemnon together.
17:57
SPEAKER_05: You know, I I could see where they probably got that.
18:01
SPEAKER_05: Like I've seen Troy several times, so obviously I know what what it is, and like I've read the the Iliad and the Odyssey, and so obviously, like you know that you know what's gonna happen.
18:17
SPEAKER_05: But I mean they do in the in that movie they do make make it kind of seem like that there could have been maybe like a uh something because uh Achilles could have killed Hector at the temple, right?
18:31
SPEAKER_05: But he lets him go.
18:33
SPEAKER_05: And yeah, there was the cousin.
18:35
SPEAKER_05: So I mean I could I could get I could see it, but um, I mean just knowing the story, it's just like yeah, no.
18:43
SPEAKER_05: That team up was not.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I was laughing so hard, they like walked into my house and we're just like, what an ending.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: You had something to say, Richard.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: Does your family listen to the podcast?
18:53
SPEAKER_03: Do they listen to the show?
18:54
SPEAKER_00: They don't listen to the podcast, no.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Nobody listens to the podcast.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: Respectfully, they're very nice people.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: I've met a couple of them.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh your brother, you know, for example.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: I I cannot understand how this happened.
19:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it's just there are references to the Odyssey in so many things and so many forms of media that I just how does one escape learning about it?
19:21
SPEAKER_03: It's a good one.
19:22
SPEAKER_03: I just don't understand.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you go through life not just hearing the references, seeing it somewhere something does it, you know?
19:30
SPEAKER_03: Like it just happens, like these things are out there, and it's just I cannot fathom how they didn't come across it at some point in their lives and maybe look it up or or something.
19:43
SPEAKER_03: I it in conversation, I don't know.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm rather flabbergasted to hear that they had not ever seen it before.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Good, good, kind people.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not like the smartest person, but in my family I'm a genius.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm really not that smart, but in in comparison.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: It is um it's just crazy to me because like when I was growing up, for example, like I watched a cartoon show named Don Coyote, which was based off the the book Don Quixote, you know, and uh I really got into it that way, you know, so it wasn't that I had read it first, but it was just that I, oh, a couple of these stories sound cool, and and kind of discovering it that way, you know.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: So it's just mind-boggling to me that they didn't somehow accidentally, you know, mm pick up on this or see something, or you know, like remember the Trojan horse party, something like that.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: It's just I know I'm I know we're English teachers, you know, but I think it it this really grinds my ears.
20:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, no, it's really good.
20:53
SPEAKER_06: Um speaking, you know, sidebar really quick.
20:56
SPEAKER_06: Um hold on.
20:58
SPEAKER_06: We'll uh I we will get to that.
20:59
SPEAKER_06: I I just want to say um you mentioned Don Quixote.
21:02
SPEAKER_06: Uh I just want to tell you that there's a character in I think like book four or five, um, and throughout the rest of the Dungeon Crawler Carl series, that's a male stripper named Dong with a G at the end.
21:14
SPEAKER_06: Quixote, Donk Quixote, um and and his noble steed.
21:19
SPEAKER_06: Uh but let's let's go back to That's a beef.
21:23
SPEAKER_06: Let's go back to That's Dungeon Crawl Carl.
21:25
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
21:25
SPEAKER_06: Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mention the book.
21:28
SPEAKER_06: Um I know, but the listeners, I gotta think about the listeners.
21:32
SPEAKER_06: Um the Odyssey.
21:34
SPEAKER_06: So they they came into the Odyssey and they were they were sitting a little bit away from us, so we couldn't actually see their reactions to stuff.
21:41
SPEAKER_06: But there were a couple scenes where I was just like, oh, we should we probably should have prepped them on what like what what to expect.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: They had no idea.
21:50
SPEAKER_06: No idea.
21:52
SPEAKER_06: The pick yeah, the Switzer scene, the polyphemous scene.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Um I kept like I couldn't even enjoy the movie because I kept thinking it.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: About what my brother was thinking, you know, like you know when you go to see a movie with someone, and so like I had them watch Troy, which is basically just like a war movie, you know, like there's really no magic.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Like they mention the gods, but you don't really even see them in Troy.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh yeah, watch that, you'll be prepped, you know.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: They they could decide to come with us last minute.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I should have probably explained that this is like more fantasy, and then you know, Christopher Nolan made it horror, which was interesting.
22:29
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, it is horrific, yeah.
22:32
SPEAKER_06: What's happening?
22:33
SPEAKER_05: Especially the cyclops scene.
22:35
SPEAKER_05: They like that like the cyclops was like really unsettling to look at.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: The cyclops actually reminded me of my son.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Like he like blinked like a baby.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Like he was like, you know what I'm saying?
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And like the way he like like bit the guy and kind of just discarded him, like that's how my son will like have his pacifier in his mouth and he just like rips it out and just like throws like without like thinking, you know, everything's just reflexive.
22:59
SPEAKER_06: And then he just falls asleep like a baby.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then like his hands will just like dangle like Cyclops' hands, just like kind of passively existing.
23:06
SPEAKER_06: And our son makes such great cheese.
23:09
SPEAKER_05: But it but but it was like in the story, it's a bit more humorous, and Dakota, you brought it up, and I completely forgot about it because I haven't read the Odyssey in so long about the nobody, uh like when when the the like Cyclops was like asking who it is, like after he was blinded and Odysseus like I'm nobody.
23:34
SPEAKER_05: Like that scene was a lot more humorous um in the story, but in this movie it was horrific.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, it is terrifying, and Dakota, I gotta ask.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, a couple weeks ago, so we got to see the movie first.
23:49
SPEAKER_03: I guess we're moving first, right?
23:51
SPEAKER_03: Dakota tweets out Rich and I talked about this.
23:53
SPEAKER_03: Dakota tweets out that he really can't wait to see the nobody scene because it's his favorite scene in all of literature, and I my heart broke, my heart broke for him.
24:03
SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh no, he's going to go see this movie, and he's not gonna know.
24:08
SPEAKER_03: So I have to know.
24:10
SPEAKER_03: Did you have any inkling that that was gonna be removed from the movie beforehand, or were you in earnest, like really excited about seeing that scene, and then when you got to the movie, absolutely had had your heart shattered in a million pieces?
24:27
SPEAKER_03: So I I think we gotta know on the show, Dakota.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: The listeners deserve to know.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: Did you or did you not have an idea that that scene was missing?
24:39
SPEAKER_06: I did, yes.
24:39
SPEAKER_06: It was it was sarcasm.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Um and I was it was I you pull the wool over our eyes.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: I I didn't know, I was really sadly, right?
24:50
SPEAKER_03: Anthony and I were talking about we were we were really Yeah, I thought he was serious.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually know.
24:55
SPEAKER_06: It is actually one of my favorite scenes in literature.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Um not just like even before this movie was a thing.
25:03
SPEAKER_06: I I I really think that the the cunning nature of Odysseus um is um one of those shown in this movie, really.
25:15
SPEAKER_06: Well, we'll get to that, yeah.
25:17
SPEAKER_06: But um we'll uh I mean yeah, we don't really get too much of that in this movie.
25:24
SPEAKER_06: Um but I I think that his cunning nature is one of the defining traits of who Odysseus is, or where he was.
25:34
SPEAKER_06: You know, like when he left Troy, he was very cunning, he was this genius of industry, he was um the architect of Troy's demise, and he felt that he was the best, the smartest, the um the most cunning, the the one who can get away with certain things.
25:50
SPEAKER_06: And that's why the nobody scene is so great, because he thought he can get away from the wrath of the gods, you know.
25:58
SPEAKER_06: Um until he was, you know, leaving the island, then he goes, I'm Odysseus, and Polyphemus, you know, cries to the ocean, and um Poseidon decides to uh ruin everyone's day uh for the next 10 years.
26:13
SPEAKER_06: Um but yeah, we we don't get any of that in this movie, and that was disappointing, um, but I was preempted with that disappointment.
26:23
SPEAKER_06: So I was just kind of being a little facetious when I wrote that tweet.
26:28
SPEAKER_06: And um, yeah, it's it's not it's not so bad.
26:33
SPEAKER_06: That was one of the things that like we were like really you know worried about.
26:38
SPEAKER_06: Like one once we like got into the movie and we realized, oh, this has a little bit of a horror element, a horror background to it.
26:46
SPEAKER_06: It was uh a little bit um how is how are my uh how's my brother-in-law and his girlfriend gonna take this?
26:53
SPEAKER_06: And um, I think they took my brother.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Also, like notoriously gets very scared of anything otherworldly.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Like if there's even like a slight otherworldly presence, my brother will be like, this is demonic, and he gets upset and he doesn't want to watch in.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: So then he saw like Cyclops freaking Cersei like molding the pigs.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: You were worried about your brother and his girlfriend.
27:19
SPEAKER_03: I was worried about my mother-in-law and my 11-year-old.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: Alright.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: Now, maybe I had taken a ride on the black pearl and met up with Captain Jack beforehand.
27:31
SPEAKER_03: So essentially, when that came, I like leaned over real hard the Cersei scene to uh to Charlie and to my and to Lauren, and I was like, uh, you might want to look away right now, you know.
27:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I will say that the crazy thing about that scene is that I don't know if you I read a lot about it, but it's actually not CGI.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it makes it so scary.
27:58
SPEAKER_03: Like she's really a witch, guys.
28:00
SPEAKER_03: She's an actual witch.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: Like she did it.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: Like she they s there are articles that say like she did this.
28:07
SPEAKER_03: Like it's practical magic.
28:09
SPEAKER_03: Like that's yeah, really disturbing.
28:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh no, honestly, I I'm not a horror, like I've seen you know, I'll watch like some horror stuff.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: I've seen trauma like the trauma uh horror movies where they're pretty gory and like ridiculous.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: But this wasn't yeah, and can't be.
28:29
SPEAKER_03: This like I don't know why, like, it's funny to see someone fall into a vat of acid like from a window in one movie, but then watching this like disturbed me deeply.
28:41
SPEAKER_03: And having to be an IMAX was like I was like, oh like you there's nowhere to look.
28:47
SPEAKER_03: Like there was nowhere to look.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: It was uh really one of the most uncomfortable moments I've ever felt watching a movie.
28:56
SPEAKER_06: I think that was my favorite part of the movie.
28:58
SPEAKER_06: I thought that that was the most amazing um adaptation of that scene possible.
29:04
SPEAKER_06: Like I I turned over to Jen and I was just like, holy crap, that was such a good adaptation of that scene.
29:11
SPEAKER_06: Just because it's it it changes like how you perceive it, you know, like Cersei is a witch.
29:17
SPEAKER_06: You think of magic, you think of like, ooh, uh Spirited Away, you know, like the scene where her parents turn into pigs, and it's just instant like that.
29:25
SPEAKER_05: Pinocchio.
29:26
SPEAKER_06: Pinocchio, yes.
29:28
SPEAKER_05: I was actually I was thinking that I I was like when when I was watching that that scene, I was thinking, like, I wonder if like that if that scene was taken from the Odyssey and it was like that scene was inspired by the Odyssey in Pinocchio.
29:43
SPEAKER_05: Um I believe it, yeah.
29:45
SPEAKER_05: Because I mean it felt it feels very much so like it.
29:47
SPEAKER_05: Like all the kids like were kind of like, you know, just overindulging on everything, very much so, like the soldiers kind of like in the scene, just like eating eating up, you know, all the food, and then they're getting turned into pigs.
30:01
SPEAKER_06: And it's the same for um Tahiro's parents in Spirited Away.
30:07
SPEAKER_06: You have them going to that like uh spirit fair and they're just scourging themselves on the food, and next thing uh she knows they're they're literally pigs.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: But this was what uh the the food uh on a practical name, I know you're hungry.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: I I've been hungry before, okay?
30:26
SPEAKER_03: But if you serve me what looks like I don't know, I don't know what was that?
30:34
SPEAKER_03: Why are you eating that?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Like there there are so many parts of this that like what is she serving them?
30:42
SPEAKER_06: It is absolutely something um so like to Emily Wilson's credit, like the food was supposed to be appealing, you know, like they were just it was supposed to be like you can't look away from it, like it was like that was part of it, yeah.
30:54
SPEAKER_06: But this was not appealing food.
30:56
SPEAKER_06: It was almost and I just the way it was filmed, it was so fascinating, and I realized it was practical like right off the bat.
31:03
SPEAKER_06: And you could tell like they did like a mix of like um like backward motion stuff, like they they were like flipped the um the recording so that the food looked like it was being sucked into their mouths.
31:14
SPEAKER_06: Um, and it was so bizarre, it was like it really like it freaked me out.
31:20
SPEAKER_05: I I still have visuals of that, but um that that stew looked like the the same stew that AON served uh Aragorn.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: Wait, did you guys get Tom Bombadil vibes when she was like talking them back to being like humans?
31:37
SPEAKER_03: Like the way Tom Bombadil talked down the tree, right?
31:41
SPEAKER_03: Where he's like, you know, he's like ease your roots, come on.
31:44
SPEAKER_06: I got I got tree beard vibes for sure.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Um Ah, alright, yeah.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Um but what was she saying?
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Go back to your go back to your like masquerad.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Not masquer go back to your disguises, yeah.
31:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or something like that.
31:58
SPEAKER_06: Which is such a great line.
31:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, there's a good line.
32:00
SPEAKER_06: Uh because it's like the pigs is what she truly believes them to be.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: I I took like a fantasy class in college, and I actually to I teach this to my students as well, with like like whenever we read like fantasy stories, or like I've done like fairy tale units and stuff, and how in fairy tale logic you're never supposed to eat the food.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Like it's always a problem, like you never do that.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if this is like the original, like I'm assuming this would be like the the first one where this is like a fantasy story, like don't eat the food or you'll like something bad will happen.
32:34
SPEAKER_06: It's our earliest.
32:35
SPEAKER_06: Is it our earliest?
32:36
SPEAKER_06: Like, I'm assuming this would be the no, it's not our earliest.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: What what would be the early thing?
32:41
SPEAKER_03: There's that other one from the there's that big book uh that people were reading.
32:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's in the first chapter.
32:46
SPEAKER_06: The Bibli?
32:46
SPEAKER_06: Uh the Bibli.
32:48
SPEAKER_06: I think uh Genesis.
32:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
32:52
SPEAKER_03: Geonosis.
32:55
SPEAKER_03: Geonosis, actually.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's you just eat the food and it's like a bad thing, like it's just a problem.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: That's you think it's just like Adam and Eve thing?
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Like is this all from that story?
33:05
SPEAKER_06: I mean, so much of history kind of revolves around that.
33:09
SPEAKER_06: Don't eat food um served by woman.
33:11
SPEAKER_06: That's even like that's there's that's why all chefs are men, right?
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Your wife's an amazing chef.
33:17
SPEAKER_06: I know.
33:18
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, there's there's so much in like ancient history, like there, like one of the um the the trial one of the labors of Hercules has him like um stealing the golden apple uh that he's definitely not supposed to eat.
33:34
SPEAKER_06: Um you have a Norse Persephone.
33:37
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
33:37
SPEAKER_06: Um Persephone eats the pomegranate seed.
33:40
SPEAKER_06: She eats the pomegranate seed.
33:42
SPEAKER_06: Uh in Norse mythology, there's there's actually like a very close biblical, I forget the name of the the goddess, but she also has like a golden apple.
33:51
SPEAKER_06: Um and it's it's very it's it's all kind of it all kind of sounds from the same idea, the same story, but with the Odyssey, it kind of takes it into a different route.
34:00
SPEAKER_06: Like, but yeah, they're they're still like damned for eating the food that they're not supposed to eat.
34:05
SPEAKER_06: And I thought that they did this scene really well.
34:09
SPEAKER_06: I I want to give the film like full credit because so much of what um Nolan had to do with trying to make it as practical as possible is focus on small details, you know, like he has to like the in that scene, nothing lasts more than like two or three seconds, you know, like it's it's very fastly cut of these like very disgusting images, and so much of it is like super close up to the camera where you don't have a full grasp on what you're looking at.
34:44
SPEAKER_06: So um we when she's like kind of like uh pulling the faces into the shape of pigs, um, it looks like they're faces, you know, because you're you're so close to the the actual um prop that she's manipulating that it totally feels real.
35:00
SPEAKER_06: And I think that that is kind of the magic of filmmaking, is you have to employ certain uh techniques to uh get the product the way you want it.
35:10
SPEAKER_06: And I think he learned a lot of that with Oppenheimer because he did that movie completely CGI free.
35:16
SPEAKER_06: He plays a lot with scale in this movie, you know, there's the the the island of the the giants, and so much of that is just um yeah, Anthony, your background.
35:27
SPEAKER_06: That was all practical, you know.
35:29
SPEAKER_06: He just had like seven and a half foot bodybuilders and then like small women in in c in uh in armor, and it just it's a play on scale, you know, like they it's just it looks like giants compared to the normal cast of the Odyssey.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean that's how I felt in Iceland.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: People are huge, yeah.
35:49
SPEAKER_06: They're they're tall people.
35:50
SPEAKER_03: But did you uh did you like that uhation of the island of the giants being like knights with swords?
35:58
SPEAKER_06: I I didn't to be honest, I didn't remember it that well.
36:05
SPEAKER_06: Um so I I didn't have a huge relation to it one way or the other.
36:09
SPEAKER_05: Uh the scene was pretty quick too.
36:12
SPEAKER_05: Like it wasn't very long, yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, I didn't remember it either.
36:16
SPEAKER_05: I for it's a really long name, it's like Lil the Lestronians or something like that.
36:22
SPEAKER_05: Some really, really long name.
36:24
SPEAKER_05: That's what the giants are called.
36:26
SPEAKER_05: It starts with an L.
36:27
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
36:28
SPEAKER_03: It's not Oh, I'm thinking I'm thinking of Oliver Tw Oliver uh Jonathan Swift with uh the Lil Putians and the Rob Deck Nations.
36:35
SPEAKER_06: You're thinking of Little Putians, that's different.
36:37
SPEAKER_06: Um I'll look it up really quick.
36:39
SPEAKER_06: Giant Island and Odyssey.
36:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it starts with an Lestronian or something like that.
36:46
SPEAKER_06: Lystragonians.
36:47
SPEAKER_06: Nice.
36:47
SPEAKER_06: Lystragonians.
36:48
SPEAKER_06: You were you were very close, Ant.
36:50
SPEAKER_06: Clock it.
36:51
SPEAKER_06: Clock it.
36:51
SPEAKER_06: Clock that T.
36:52
SPEAKER_06: Um Yeah, I I think that they did a pretty good job of most of the stops that they make along their way.
37:02
SPEAKER_06: Um, some of them were much more important to the plot.
37:05
SPEAKER_06: I really liked the the way that they did the the Helios scene, the the sun god, you know, that like they were they weren't supposed to eat the cattle, um, but that basically just damned the rest of them, and they were just like, We knew you'd be mad, so we didn't want to eat with you.
37:21
SPEAKER_06: That was my favorite.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: I actually think that's my when he's like, Did you think that you could hide and eat, you know, like and they're like, Well, we just thought you'd be mad.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: Like I I that's my one of my favorite scenes, I think.
37:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh I also uh the Sir like with Cersei, not Cersei, with Calypso now in the original, am I just misremembering?
37:45
SPEAKER_03: But like everybody's there, right?
37:47
SPEAKER_03: Like the whole crew is like parting it up.
37:49
SPEAKER_06: I I think uh the the scenes were kind of twisted about and they they use Calypso in a way that um I think should have happened earlier in the the the movie narratively.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Because like doesn't if I uh I'm not trying to be I'm really not trying to to cause problems here, uh but I if I remember correctly, it was that like the crew is also upset with him when they do leave the Calypso's island.
38:16
SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah, because it's it's the Lotus Eaters plural, you know, it's not just Lotus Eater.
38:22
SPEAKER_06: So yeah, there there are some like choices that they made.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: I think the Calypso one was was a fairly uh big choice narratively, but because like getting like for the crew to be angry at you, right, especially after they've been starving, I think it's a big deal to show that you find a place where there is plentiful food and sex, and then he asks them to leave that, right?
38:51
SPEAKER_03: Like they're starving, you give them all the like you know, they're mad, thirsty, and hungry, and you gave them everything and you took them from that.
39:01
SPEAKER_03: Now they're angry at you, that makes sense, right?
39:05
SPEAKER_03: But like to be like for the crew to consistently be like, well, you know, you're just making bad decisions, that's why, that's why we're so angry.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: Like, my dudes, you're encountering like terrible gods who are pouring their wrath upon you, and and and you're like, well, you know, freaking Odysseus, terrible decision maker, should have followed Amag Magnon home, right?
39:29
SPEAKER_03: Like he he took I-87, you know, it's a better route.
39:33
SPEAKER_03: Like that doesn't make sense.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Like taking it out makes me so angry, you know, it really does.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: I just and and also like I don't I felt like in they painted it more like it was Calypso's eventual guilt that she like starts revealing it more than Odysseus's love for Penelope truly shining through.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
40:01
SPEAKER_06: Hold on, I wanna put this on the record.
40:04
SPEAKER_06: Um usually Rich is not the critic on the podcast.
40:09
SPEAKER_06: This is this is uh this is an interesting turn.
40:12
SPEAKER_06: Um unless unless I've missed something in the past month of of you guys recording podcasts alone.
40:17
SPEAKER_06: Um this is interesting.
40:18
SPEAKER_06: I I'm I'm enjoying this uh more critical Rich because I too am critical of this movie in certain aspects of it.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Um didn't you get like eaten up on Twitter for this?
40:28
SPEAKER_00: For your criticisms?
40:29
SPEAKER_06: I did get eaten up on Twitter.
40:30
SPEAKER_06: Um there's a lot of uh Nolan fanboys out there um who just like just enjoy the movie and shut up.
40:37
SPEAKER_05: They said no Nolan first, Odyssey second.
40:40
SPEAKER_06: Yes, there's a lot of that.
40:42
SPEAKER_06: Where I've never really I I think Nolan is an incredible director.
40:47
SPEAKER_06: I I cannot you'd be stupid to say otherwise.
40:50
SPEAKER_06: Love the Batman movies.
40:52
SPEAKER_06: He he is among the greats at this point, you know.
40:55
SPEAKER_06: But I'm not an Nolan fanboy.
40:56
SPEAKER_06: I've never wanted to see a movie because of his name.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: I disagree with like I I personally like I've never wanted that.
41:04
SPEAKER_06: Like I I like the movies that he creates, like Inception, great concept.
41:08
SPEAKER_06: Definitely want to see that.
41:09
SPEAKER_06: Interstellar, wow, that looks good.
41:11
SPEAKER_06: Um The Odyssey, I want to see this because it's a movie I, you know, that's a story I really love.
41:16
SPEAKER_06: Or Oppenheimer, what a crazy character to make a movie about.
41:20
SPEAKER_06: I love it.
41:21
SPEAKER_06: So I I've always been in that camp where I'm not like going to the movie because it's a Christopher Nolan movie, even though I recognize he's a good director.
41:29
SPEAKER_06: I think there are people who hype him up too much, and I think this is a this this movie is for me proof of that.
41:37
SPEAKER_06: Uh because it it go ahead, Ann.
41:39
SPEAKER_05: I think it's because like, you know, he's kind of become like synonymous with like high quality movie making, right?
41:47
SPEAKER_05: And I I know Jen was about to Jen, you're gonna say that that uh like you disagree because like I feel like since Interstellar, like if I see Christopher Nolan's name on something, I want to go see it.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: I I expect it to be high quality.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: But I I'm kind of a fan of of filmmakers, like I love David Lynch.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I wanna go like there's certain filmmakers that I go through their like everything that they've made, like I want to watch all of it.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Scorsese, Francis Ford.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: Okay, Sophia Who was the first guy that you mentioned?
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Who who was the first guy that you mentioned?
42:28
SPEAKER_05: I feel I I I feel like it when it comes to making a movie that he can kind of have like a free like free reign over that doesn't really have like an established storyline, it's easy for him to do it like really well.
42:45
SPEAKER_05: Like Batman, of course, has an established storyline, but the thing is is that you can do just about anything with Batman, right?
42:52
SPEAKER_05: As long as as you kind of check a few boxes, right?
42:56
SPEAKER_05: Like his parents have to be dead, you know, and he has to you know be a caped crusader that that you know draws his inspiration from bats, right?
43:06
SPEAKER_05: And obviously, like you know, Oppenheimer, he took some creative liberties, but you know, at least he needed to have some some uh like historical accuracy to it.
43:16
SPEAKER_05: But everything else, like you know, Inception, that's not real.
43:19
SPEAKER_05: What do you think?
43:20
SPEAKER_06: Well, it wasn't an established IP before before he made it.
43:23
SPEAKER_05: Right, right, right.
43:24
SPEAKER_05: So I think that what makes it tough with the Odyssey is that the Odyssey has been established for a very, very, very long time.
43:35
SPEAKER_05: And there's a lot of people who ha have been fans of the Odyssey first.
43:40
SPEAKER_05: And and honestly, your your criticism criticisms are definitely valid because the more that that we've talked about it and the more that we've look like since I've seen the Odyssey, I've looked into the stuff that I have forgotten because it I haven't read it since I was a kid, and I realize that there was a lot that I did forget about it and I was like oh wow like the tone was like very different right and Odysseus's character is very different like you know he like he was very from from the the the start of the Odyssey to the end like it's his transition from being very boastful to very humble but he's broken and has PTSD essentially from the start to the end so that so that's a big character change.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: I actually think that that's the oh go ahead Rich go ahead please my wife had a big problem with Matt Damon um she just like not that he's not a good actor we got a fart on camera on audio by the way she uh she actually like she loved Anna Hathaway's performance and she thought she actually a number of times said that Anna Hathaway was so good that she completely forgot that Anna hat like that it was Anna Hathaway and that she just thought it was Penelope.
45:03
SPEAKER_03: But she just felt that Matt Damon was just Matt Damon you know like and I I I kind of agree a little bit like you know we we had Boromir as uh Matt Dam as uh as Odysseus right in Troy and uh I just I don't know like m Damon didn't feel Odysseus like to me.
45:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know if I'm just being a little bit uh like I thought that Pattison was great.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: Loved.
45:32
SPEAKER_03: You know I thought that uh you know and Hathaway was great.
45:35
SPEAKER_03: I thought that Tom Holland now I don't I really don't like this is I know I know this doesn't make sense and maybe this is because of the way I was raised or the way I watch things but like older things have British accents like Game of Thrones, right?
45:49
SPEAKER_03: Tom Holland having like an American accent as as Telemachus was uh a little weird to me.
45:57
SPEAKER_03: You know like it's just uh like why why can't he just speak British?
46:02
SPEAKER_03: You know was it Tom Holland and and John Bernthal have been like very busy right they they're there did they did the Odyssey they did Spider-Man like them them that's another casting man John Bernthal I love him but he's just John Bernthal.
46:18
SPEAKER_05: He's not like he's Frank Castle he's the guy from Walking Dead right but like he's John Bernthal he's like when he was Meteleyus I was like are we joking like he's like yeah so you know the thing is like I don't think you're gonna be able to find your dad you know it's just the that's just the way it is bro because like we kind of got that same dynamic in Spider-Man yes and you know what it works in Spider-Man because Frank Castle's a New York freaking cop right and instead here you just kinda oh yeah I'm super Greek bro I love Tzeki sauce when I get the gyro at the car on the corner like come on like I just that like he's a good actor and I really really like him I but I don't know like I couldn't imagine um like there's no way that that like he you know obviously like his his brother uh Agamamna Agamamnon ugh always get that one messed up but he gets killed by his wife you know I I wouldn't I I wouldn't be able to to believe that uh there's no way that that same thing could have happened to John Bernthal he would have had booby traps before he got he got killed in that movie.
47:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah it's yeah it's just it's just so funny because of like how close these movies were together and like we literally got the same like two of the same characters in each movie and they're like kind of similar too.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: I will say I kind of to me it's not just about like Matt Damon or this person or that person.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: It's just about like such a star studded cast that it almost becomes like cameos in the movie like you know with Zendaya too I I didn't have any I didn't take Umbrage with any particular casting it's just when there's so many huge stars that are all also like stars that are super prevalent right now.
48:19
SPEAKER_03: Like we just saw Anne Hathaway and and the Devil Rare's Prada 2 like there it's right now like very big actors for this moment they're of the moment you know you know hold on but I would say I think you'll agree with me John Leguizamo is such a recognizable Puerto Rican voice.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Well I I loved him he was my favorite in this movie I loved him in this movie.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: He was he was good but the minute he opens his mouth he's like hey papi I'm John Leguizamo from Greece I know he was one of my favorite parts of the movie actually I I thought of all the acting he was probably my favorite he was very good but his voice is so ridiculously distinct that I just think it's like it's weird casting right because then like I think he shines through where I don't know I I just feel like some you know what's weird like the guy who played Stryker right in the X-Men movies he's in Troy I can't remember the car he's a character actor I can't remember his name but uh he's the same guy who plays Agamegon and or Manila I can't what he's in Troy whatever he's so good at being a role actor that it's great you know John Luguzamo just always feels like and it's this character played by John Leguzamo and I I I just I couldn't get around with the name it was crazy.
49:42
SPEAKER_05: Just him with the name but then my like that's Luigi man that's Luigi from the Super Mario Brothers movie what did you guys think uh Jen brought up Zendaya so what did you think about the fact that Zendaya was not Athena that it was a mental manifestation of uh it was Odysseus's mental manifestation of Athena based off of somebody that was killed in Troy.
50:10
SPEAKER_06: So I I still think it was Athena like that's that's how I'm interpreting it and that um she just chose that form because it meant something to Odysseus and the roll out okay he's just he's just making like a lot of noises right now all right final thoughts on a on the Odyssey Jim he's got final thoughts on the Odyssey so I will say sorry he's getting mad okay I'll say this and then I'll take him upstairs we had a lot of noises going on like the dog was drinking water like like there was just like a lot going on.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: Dakota and I watched The Return with Ralph Fines um where he's playing Odysseus coming home and I felt like his Odysseus and it's that I think she's French that actress I don't I don't know her name she was in Chuck Lot with Johnny Depp Jul Julie something I don't know um those two were so perfect as Odysseus and Penelope that going and seeing Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway afterwards actually I didn't I wasn't crazy about them.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't tell if I didn't think it was Matt Damon's fault necessarily I think it was just Ralph Fines did such an incredible job and so did the other actress that I just pictured them as like this perfect representation of that instead.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
51:31
SPEAKER_00: I liked the movie.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: I I like movies that get people into things that I like I've always been a fan of um like Greek mythology and the Odyssey story and the story of Troy um and the you know the Iliad and even though this isn't perfect I think it's a really good gateway for people like my brother and my family who would never otherwise get into a story like this.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: I had a history professor that was really upset about Hamilton.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: He felt like it didn't represent history perfectly and it wasn't a great representation of like who Hamilton actually was Hamilton the musical I mean and like the only reason I was in his class was because of freaking Hamilton.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I signed up for the US history class because of Hamilton.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like well it doesn't have to be perfect if it gets people into it.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think this got a lot of people exposure to the Odyssey that otherwise wouldn't have known anything about it.
52:25
SPEAKER_03: But anyway I'm well do you find do you take umbrage with the idea that people got into it but will walk away and probably not read it and always have this misinformed version of it that's not true to the original but you don't you don't know that people aren't going to read it.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Some people could go see the Hamilton play and never look into it again.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: Like I went and bought his autobiography or not his autobiography I went and bought the biography and read up on it myself.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: I think you'll have inquisitive minds that are now getting a taste of something that they have that they won't learn about.
53:03
SPEAKER_03: We have two people we have two people that you're gonna have to follow up with us and tell us if if things changed.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: So they go back to the source okay my brother doesn't read my brother is literally like like for like Johnny from Dirty Dancing like Johnny don't have no books because Johnny doesn't read Johnny does not read like I'm not expecting him but he he really liked Troy and he was like I want to go see the Odyssey again and he did start kind of looking into it like in his own Johnny way.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: So that for that's a big step.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: You know I think there's a lot of like especially like younger people who they don't teach the Odyssey in school anymore.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: Younger people that might be like oh this is cool.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: Like this is like this is like Geno Smith coming back to the jets after a long time away pretty much yeah anyway I'm gonna go take the baby upstairs as you can hear he's not happy uh and I'll let Dakota come back and finish us off with you guys.
53:54
SPEAKER_06: Alrighty thank you Jen Bye Bah deuces up folks so I just want to jump in and say that I didn't have an issue with most of the cast I understand that it was a star cited cast with a lot of baggage behind them.
54:11
SPEAKER_06: I thought that everyone did pretty good I didn't have an issue with Matt Damon.
54:17
SPEAKER_06: I think that he's a very accomplished actor he's he he plays the role that he was given very role very well.
54:23
SPEAKER_06: I think Tom Holland was probably the weakest part for me.
54:27
SPEAKER_06: Just um even but he's he's a joy to have on screen at the same time like I I don't yeah I I weakest part no I don't know but I didn't I didn't have that that big of an issue with the the cast as as a whole um John Iguazama was my favorite character.
54:44
SPEAKER_06: I thought he played an incredible job out of that role I I really really love that character.
54:50
SPEAKER_06: Anthony one one thing that you mentioned earlier in the podcast was that Odysseus his character had been significantly changed in this movie.
54:59
SPEAKER_06: He in the book or the the poem goes from this cunning genius tactician in war to a very humbled lowly beggar who comes back to his his um home and you know like defeats all the suitors.
55:17
SPEAKER_06: And that's an important journey you know that is the Odyssey that is uh they didn't name it after someone else they named it after him like he goes on to this humbling journey um and it takes 10 years for him to become that person.
55:31
SPEAKER_06: My issue with this movie is that he became that person in Troy before he ever left Troy and then he was just basically punished for 10 years.
55:40
SPEAKER_06: But the the actual journey he went on didn't amount to anything because he already made made up his mind as to um what needed to be done uh for a penance or whatever.
55:53
SPEAKER_06: You know like he was already like he was already having those PTSD moments at Troy you know he was already regretting what he had done.
56:01
SPEAKER_06: But that's not the Odyssey of the Odyssey that's the that's Nolan's um injection of the character into the the the self.
56:11
SPEAKER_06: So my issue primarily with this movie is that it takes the character at the end of the Odyssey and puts him at the start.
56:18
SPEAKER_06: So there's no real character arc but the movie does give us a few I call them like Odysseisms or Ulyssesms based on like your whatever translation you prefer of of his name but like the the movie gives us a couple of those and it just falls so it it it feels so strange.
56:38
SPEAKER_06: Like in what world would Matt Damon's Odysseus decide you know what I want to hear the sirens.
56:46
SPEAKER_06: That's just something I want to do and you're just gonna tie me up that's not it's a different character.
56:51
SPEAKER_06: Like it it's it's a I I was watching it I'm just like that's a weird thing to adapt if they've already decided that they're gonna do away with all the the crazy Odysseus isms of the character from the get-go you know so there was like a couple of those moments in this movie where I was just like they're just taking that from the poem but that doesn't match the character that they have developed for the screen.
57:20
SPEAKER_06: That's what really was jarring to me with with this movie well as I was watching it I was just like wait a minute and as I was watching I was realizing what I disliked about the movie.
57:32
SPEAKER_06: And don't get me wrong I I truly believe this is like a 10 out of 10 movie.
57:36
SPEAKER_06: You know like if if if I had no idea what the Odyssey was Nolan directed the crap out of it.
57:41
SPEAKER_06: But knowing what the Odyssey is knowing what it means knowing um how it has affected the entirety of you know the hero's journey as far as uh Western literature goes and and cinema and everything like he like Odysseus is one of the defining characters in the hero's journey um or some some people call it the monomyth it's Joseph's Campbell Joseph Campbell's um man with a thousand faces it's the idea that throughout history you have these heroes that um seemingly have their own story but they all follow a a like a 12-step pattern from beginning to end.
58:24
SPEAKER_06: And Odysseus is one of those archetypal characters.
58:27
SPEAKER_06: And I realized during this movie that because they went about this th like in a way that he has already come to the conclusions he needs to come to before he even even leaves Troy they've essentially destroyed the whole point of the hero's journey.
58:44
SPEAKER_06: They destroyed the idea of there being an Odyssey to begin with there's there's no point to it.
58:50
SPEAKER_06: And then to top it all off the the journey when it comes to an end when he finally gets home to Ithaca he leaves the next day he leaves the next day I I was beside myself in the theater I could not believe so um the idea of like a homecoming I I mentioned this online it's a it's a term that actually comes from our understanding of uh the Odyssey um the the the word nostalgia is uh a mix of two different Greek terms that literally means the the pains of wanting to be home and that's what the Odyssey is supposed to be about but before he even gets home he already is resolved in his heart that that's not where he wants to be um and they kind of give him a Frodo Baggins type of you know my journey's not over yet you know I've I've seen too much blah blah blah I have to do more whatever great great ending for Frodo and Odysseus does do some of that stuff later in his lifetime but the idea that he needed to do that the day after arriving to his wife who's been waiting for you for 20 years selfish much I was so confused.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_06: I yeah I was 20 years back I was really enjoying the movie up until that point and I I really really hated that direction and I think that's ultimately what Emily Wilson the the um translator had an issue with because like it flies in the face of what it what the Odyssey means.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_06: It flies in the face of what it represents prior to that point like there were there were some moments in the movie where I was truly like amazed you know I was I was really amazed at the storytelling prowess that uh Nolan delivered upon um and it made me like kind of verklempt while watching it that this story has transcended almost 3,000 years and is now being told to another generation of people.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_06: I thought that you know like this was such a powerful film or it's it's it's a it's literally the story of stories you know in my in my mind it's the story of telling stories and there are characters in the Odyssey who are telling the story of Odysseus and where he's been and everything.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_06: And I really found that to be powerful and I think that um he did a uh Nolan did a good job with getting that across that it's a story of stories you know but I as far as like understanding why he needed to go home um and what home meant I was totally blown away by how he didn't seem to get that or he decided that wasn't interesting enough I'm gonna go a different route.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_05: Yeah like it right like essentially and and and I and I kind of agree and I and I feel like you know the whole reason why they kind of go they they go the route that they go is like kind of like the scenic route and then but then they lose their then they kind of like lose their way on the way.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_05: But yeah that goes in a story that's coming from the mind of a of a boastful Odysseus but it doesn't really make sense for the Odysseus in this movie, right?
1:02:04
SPEAKER_05: Like he's already kind of beaten down why would he want to take any extra time away from home.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah I um and and that boils down to my my biggest issue with the movie.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_06: I really wanted to love it.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_06: You know it's what it's it's one of those things like I could tell this is technically fantastic.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_06: I can tell this is a masterpiece.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_05: So I I could say would you say that it is a great film but not a great adaptation 100% yeah it's it's not even a question.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_05: Because like when you're watching it like it is a an it's a it's a spectacle.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_05: It's a really amazing right but as an adaptation it doesn't stick the landing on everything.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_05: It's like it it's it's almost like it it's half in half out right like it wants to tell the story of the Odyssey but then I feel like it tries to want to modernize it a little too much but in a way that kind of detracts from the story.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_06: And I I think that that's part of the issue that like I was being not necessarily lambasted but people were were criticizing my criticisms because well if Nolan wants to change something in the story he can change it.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_06: That's fine.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_06: You know if he doesn't want to go to every single island in the in the Odyssey totally cool.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_06: If he wants to change the nobody scene right one of my favorite scenes in literature totally cool like all of these little changes are totally fine but as soon as you change the basic framework of why the story exists in the first place the the you know like the beginning middle and end no longer matter and that's what I was ish that's my issue.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_03: Like I I had an issue with why even tell the Odyssey if it's not about it if it's not about the Odyssey and that's um that really yeah I'm not gonna harp on that anymore let me let me please let me let me just ask you then I don't want to keep you know going the the thread too long but when Odysseus grabbed the cheese did you think it was juicy I mean it had to be did you think there was a little bit of juice to that cheese.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_06: It had that like mozzarella uh consistency you know like it you you squeezed it a little bit of uh some liquid some unknown liquid would would permeate it could have been voodoo ranger juicy IPA the official unofficial beer of the podcast you know that's a that's an interest interesting theory I think it's probably unfounded considering uh voodoo ranger did not exist at that time period or at least as far as I'm aware but yeah no that's it's definitely possible but yeah it was it was definitely juicy probably among the juicy things in this movie.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_05: Do you want to uh uh also um speaking of juice you guys might want to leave us a five star juicy review oh my god I can't believe that's normally the segue that we follow through um so whatever you listen to your podcast on please go ahead and leave us a five star juicy review just like that that my that juicy mozzarella cheese that that Odysseus really really loved yeah yeah yeah last thoughts uh please last thoughts Ant alrighty so I I I agree um I I agree with a lot of the the criticisms that you know as a fan of the Odyssey and I mean it it it's pretty it's it's pretty big and expansive so there's definitely things in it that I don't remember but since watching it I've looked into it and have kind of refreshed myself a little bit kind of like how I like I remember the giant's names a little bit and whatnot um or close enough.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_05: But I I do it I it was a great movie to watch like just as uh as an event film right it was it was a fun watch it was the visuals were amazing and I do like the adaptation for certain scenes but as a whole I don't think it's uh a great adaptation kind of like what you said the the character of Odysseus has changed.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_05: I do like you know seeing a better represented kind of PTSD and beaten down Odysseus but the fact that we got it a little too early is like it like you said it it kind of defeats the purpose of telling the story of the Odyssey which is that his journey is the reason why he becomes that.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I I I won't argue with you guys I'm in complete agreement really uh for me it's a good movie.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's a great movie it's a it's a technical masterpiece but it's not what I know to this to be the story and you know whether this is the curse of book readers or whatever.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_03: You know this is what happens right you know you see an adaptation of something that that you've heard about a thousand times and when it doesn't come out the way that you thought it would.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_03: You know and maybe that's Nolan's genius.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Nolan said hey it's been done before so I'm gonna do it a little different.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh but it wasn't I wouldn't say if somebody said hey do you want to watch a movie about the Odyssey or the characters in the Odyssey I would tell them to watch Troy before I would tell them to watch the Odyssey.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_06: I don't know if I would tell them to watch Troy I would tell them to watch the return with Ralph yeah okay um just another another Odyssey adaptation.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah I do think this is a better movie than the return overall it's just the spectacle you can't really beat the spectacle in a Christopher Nolan movie.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_06: So it's hard to deny that but um yeah it's it's hard going to like we literally watched the return and then we went to see the Odyssey like two days later.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_06: So it was one of those like we know the real story why is this happening um we we know it can be done in film.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_06: Why did they do this?
1:08:25
SPEAKER_06: But anyway I think that not only is this a perfectly it's a decent adaptation it is an incredible film.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_05: And I I will be watching it again I do want to give it a second shot maybe I will get more out of it a second time and I will understand some of the changes to the the character and like the the filmmaking directive that was given to it in the future and I look forward to watching it another time but for now I'd probably put it in the the lower half of my MCU ranking I do I I do want to add before we end they did a great job on showing the the sacking of Troy I think that that the the scenes that we got for that looked amazing.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_06: We didn't even mention the music um Ludwig Jorensen um is a genius he's a genius uh I I've loved him ever since he did Black Panther and Black Panther 2 and um the Mandalorian he did oh he did the Mandalorian so well he did um dang why can't I remember the movie?
1:09:33
SPEAKER_06: I was just talking about it.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_06: Oppenheimer um he's so good at creating a lance like a a soundscape that just builds on itself and it builds on itself and it builds on itself and it gets faster and faster and that that scene that like five minutes of like them entering Troy is the most heartpounding moment I think I've ever experienced in a theater and there are there are points in the movie theater I was like I might have a heart attack yeah this is crazy.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_06: And it's it's it was I think so much of the movie is like held aloft by the music.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_06: And um that's not to like denigrate uh Christopher Nolan's achievement at all but man this movie is made so much better by that soundtrack.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_06: So yeah um I would watch it again just for that.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_06: But guys thank you so much for listening to us here for our 173rd podcast of Project Keekology if you want to give us a like uh be sure to make sure it's a juicy five star one.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_06: Um and yeah do we know we're covering next week next week I challenge all of our listeners to test your might because we will be covering Mortible combat I did not see that coming uh which one the uh the first of the nineties ones oh really we're going we're going old school yeah we're going old school okay I'm back to the nineties I have not seen it um I've seen bits and pieces though anyway that'll be fun guys see you next week the worry somebody get these podcasters out of here