Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The Ten Commandments (1956) - Cecil B. DeMille | Houselights #250: Special

Transcript

The Ten Commandments (1956) - Cecil B. DeMille | Houselights #250: Special · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the net party.
0:30
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, cinephiles and skeptics. This may seem an
0:36
Speaker 2: unusual procedure speaking to you before the podcast begins, but
0:41
Speaker 2: we have an unusual subject. The story of the birth
0:45
Speaker 2: of spectacle, the story of the Ten Commandments. As many
0:51
Speaker 2: of you know, this is not merely a film. There's
0:54
Speaker 2: a testament carved in VistaVision technicolor, a mountain of cinema
1:00
Speaker 2: on which Cecil B. Demill descended, holding two stone tablets
1:03
Speaker 2: of pure melodrama. To fill in those missing years between
1:07
Speaker 2: Biblical text and Biblical camp, we turn not to Philo
1:11
Speaker 2: and Josephus, but to two men who have studied the
1:14
Speaker 2: ancient reels. John Mills, a man who has gazed upon
1:19
Speaker 2: more nineteen fifties Matte paintings than any living soul should,
1:22
Speaker 2: and Darren Moser, who has attempted heroically to part the
1:26
Speaker 2: red sea of special effects with nothing but logic and patience.
1:31
Speaker 2: I am Tristan Riddell, your humble deliverer of the mic,
1:35
Speaker 2: here to lead this podcast out of the desert of
1:38
Speaker 2: modern minimalism and into the glorious excess of old Hollywood.
1:43
Speaker 2: The theme of this episode is whether movies are to
1:45
Speaker 2: be ruled by the divine law of storytelling or by
1:47
Speaker 2: the whims of a director with fourteen thousand extras in
1:51
Speaker 2: zero restraint. Are films the property of the studio system,
1:56
Speaker 2: or are they free souls under the light of cinema.
2:00
Speaker 2: This same battle continues throughout the film industry today. Our
2:04
Speaker 2: intention is not merely to review a movie, but to
2:07
Speaker 2: be worthy of the divinely overproduced epic created nearly seventy
2:11
Speaker 2: years ago. The story takes three hours and thirty nine
2:15
Speaker 2: minutes to unfold. There will be no intermission here. Thank
2:20
Speaker 2: you for your attention, and now lift there be house lights.
2:28
Speaker 3: I just I gotta say, I don't arn I think
2:31
Speaker 3: we just pack it up. It's all downhill from here, guys.
2:37
Speaker 3: You know you guys can keep listening. I think Tristan
2:39
Speaker 3: just summed it all up. Everybody, so thank you and
2:42
Speaker 3: good night, stay tuned in. Though we'd appreciate it. That'd
2:45
Speaker 3: be great, that'd be great. I can't tell you how
2:47
Speaker 3: many drafts of that I went through. I even sent
2:49
Speaker 3: it to my mom said what do you think of this?
2:53
Speaker 2: I love it?
2:54
Speaker 4: I love it.
2:54
Speaker 3: That is, you know, in honor of our two hundred
2:57
Speaker 3: and fiftieth episode, probably the best intro has been delivered
3:01
Speaker 3: on House Lights. Just absolutely bravo, bravo. That deserves an
3:06
Speaker 3: Oscar of its own.
3:07
Speaker 2: There you go, well, yes, those of you, yeah, for
3:12
Speaker 2: those of you at home listening, it is our two
3:15
Speaker 2: hundred and fiftieth episode, and we wanted to do something big,
3:18
Speaker 2: and so I wanted to surprise the guys with that
3:19
Speaker 2: kind of intro, and we wanted to surprise you with
3:22
Speaker 2: one of the biggest movies of all time with nineteen
3:26
Speaker 2: fifty six Cecil b The Mills The Ten Commandments, his
3:29
Speaker 2: second time making The Ten Commandments and his last movie.
3:34
Speaker 2: He's just like, you know what, I'm done. I did it.
3:36
Speaker 2: It was big and I'm done, and tonight we were
3:41
Speaker 2: talking about it, and so we're just gonna We're gonna start.
3:43
Speaker 2: Even though this is our two hundred and fiftieth episode
3:45
Speaker 2: and we're so proud to be here. We're so proud
3:47
Speaker 2: to be giving you guys episodes every single week, and
3:52
Speaker 2: we get your emails, we get your tweets, and we
3:54
Speaker 2: get your messages, and we really do appreciate it. And
3:58
Speaker 2: please please go to I Tunes and go to Speaker
4:01
Speaker 2: or Spotify. Give us a rating and let us know
4:05
Speaker 2: how we're doing. Send us an email and let us
4:08
Speaker 2: know what directors you'd like to hear. Things like that.
4:12
Speaker 2: Going to our website is probably the best. Some people
4:15
Speaker 2: send Facebook messages, but we don't always get those notifications.
4:17
Speaker 2: So for re late to that, we apologize. But we
4:20
Speaker 2: couldn't have made it to two hundred and fifty episodes
4:22
Speaker 2: without you, guys, and so this is a big thank
4:25
Speaker 2: you to you, guys. And so let's just start how
4:28
Speaker 2: we normally start. Darren, you know, did you see this
4:31
Speaker 2: in the theaters? You know, like were you were you
4:33
Speaker 2: out where you was always going on alive?
4:36
Speaker 4: Because that's the question from nineteen fifty six. Yeah, no,
4:41
Speaker 4: Well this one. It's funny because you know, I couldn't
4:45
Speaker 4: give a year of when I first saw this, but
4:48
Speaker 4: I can give probably a month because this is the
4:51
Speaker 4: movie that his every Easter is broadcast. It's like, why
4:58
Speaker 4: it's the opposite of the Disney Vault? Why by this
5:01
Speaker 4: movie when you can just wait till next East Sir
5:04
Speaker 4: to watch it? And so that's what we did. But yeah,
5:08
Speaker 4: it's not only a great movie, but it's a great Yeah,
5:12
Speaker 4: like you said, spectacle and telling of this part of
5:16
Speaker 4: the Bible. So yeah, I was sorry to disappoint you, Tristan.
5:20
Speaker 4: I was not in theaters during during the fifties.
5:24
Speaker 2: Well, surely, surely, John you went to the theaters and
5:27
Speaker 2: saw this as the old men.
5:29
Speaker 4: You know what.
5:29
Speaker 3: I actually, I actually was the one who pitched to Demil.
5:32
Speaker 3: I said, you know what, sas you me, you got
5:35
Speaker 3: to remake this thing. The technology has moved on for
5:37
Speaker 3: so so far along. I think you're in the prime.
5:41
Speaker 3: This is the time to remake it. He said. You
5:42
Speaker 3: know what, Johnny, I.
5:44
Speaker 2: Agree with you.
5:45
Speaker 3: No, I actually didn't see this movie until a year
5:49
Speaker 3: or two ago. I'd seen bits and pieces of it
5:54
Speaker 3: on you know, on TV because yeah, it's played every
5:57
Speaker 3: Easter right or back in the kitch when they had
6:01
Speaker 3: broadcast television. This was a TV event, And like I'd
6:06
Speaker 3: seen bits of it. I'd seen pieces of it here
6:09
Speaker 3: and there, Like you can't come to a love of
6:12
Speaker 3: film without hearing, you know, somebody like a Spielberger or
6:15
Speaker 3: a Lucas or you know, God help you if you're
6:17
Speaker 3: listening to Scorsese give one of his sixteen hour interviews
6:20
Speaker 3: or something like. Eventually somebody's going to talk about the
6:22
Speaker 3: Ten Commandments and the person is then going to throw
6:24
Speaker 3: it up on screen, showing Charlton Heston raising his hands
6:27
Speaker 3: parting the red seats. So I'd seen that scene plenty
6:30
Speaker 3: of times, but I'd never seen the movie all the
6:32
Speaker 3: way through until very recently, very very recently, disappointingly recently.
6:37
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, that's surprising. That's really surprising, especially especially from you.
6:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the thing is, like, my dad was a
6:45
Speaker 3: huge movie fan, but we lived in the middle of
6:48
Speaker 3: nowhere and my mom was not a movie fan, and
6:52
Speaker 3: the family at large were not really you know, yeah,
6:56
Speaker 3: we all went to movies sort of thing. But like
6:59
Speaker 3: my dad was, he was a stifled cinophile is the
7:02
Speaker 3: best way that I can I can put that. Like
7:04
Speaker 3: he loved film, but he never got the opportunity to
7:07
Speaker 3: go out and see it. So but at Easter time
7:10
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. No, no, no, TV wasn't wasn't really
7:13
Speaker 3: a thing, you know.
7:14
Speaker 2: So yeah, Well, to answer the question that you guy
7:18
Speaker 2: that Darren, you haven't asked. This was a huge family
7:23
Speaker 2: favorite to This was the Riddell family favorite. Like if
7:29
Speaker 2: there was ever a family favorite, it was this one.
7:32
Speaker 2: It was on the TV every single passover in Easter
7:35
Speaker 2: every single time, like this was the event, and we
7:39
Speaker 2: had it taped off of TV so we could wait
7:41
Speaker 2: watch it not on Easter. And I remember one of
7:44
Speaker 2: my first memories was this tape like this. It was
7:49
Speaker 2: a double VHS of the Ten Commandments in my Easter basket.
7:53
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that was the first movie that was
7:55
Speaker 2: ever gifted to me as a kid. It was like
7:57
Speaker 2: one of my first memories. I swear I was probably
7:59
Speaker 2: like and because I love this movie so much even
8:04
Speaker 2: as a wee lad, and I would watch it all
8:06
Speaker 2: the freaking time, Like I loved all the characters, all
8:11
Speaker 2: the actors. I never skipped a scene, like if I
8:14
Speaker 2: was gonna watch it, it was from beginning to end,
8:17
Speaker 2: credit to credit, you know, it's this is I love
8:21
Speaker 2: this movie so freaking much, Like this is probably a
8:24
Speaker 2: top ten movie for me, besides Star Wars. This is
8:27
Speaker 2: probably the movie that I've seen the most in my life.
8:30
Speaker 2: And it's never gonna change because they just recently Ish
8:35
Speaker 2: in the past couple of years came out with a
8:37
Speaker 2: four K remaster and it's absolutely stunning. It is the
8:40
Speaker 2: definitive way to watch this movie. And so for those
8:43
Speaker 2: of you who haven't, you should go out and try
8:45
Speaker 2: to get a copy.
8:46
Speaker 4: Well.
8:46
Speaker 3: See, I think it's very app that you mentioned Star
8:50
Speaker 3: Wars because I remember watching this for the first time
8:53
Speaker 3: and even you know, reviewing it for this discussion, you
8:57
Speaker 3: can definitely see the impact that being a kid growing
9:01
Speaker 3: up seeing this in the movie theater would have on
9:03
Speaker 3: a Lucas or a Spielberg or even a Coppola, like
9:06
Speaker 3: that sense of just being gobsmacked of oh wow, look
9:11
Speaker 3: look at that that you can do this, Like I
9:16
Speaker 3: wish that I could have seen this in the movie
9:19
Speaker 3: theater at some point, like if they were to re
9:22
Speaker 3: release this in the theater, I would go see it
9:24
Speaker 3: because you can tell just from the opening moments of
9:30
Speaker 3: the fact that this this is the type of thing
9:33
Speaker 3: that water World wanted to be where you would walk
9:37
Speaker 3: in and you were like, they spared no expense, look
9:39
Speaker 3: at every bit is on screen. And I think that
9:43
Speaker 3: what's interesting because in your intro you say, you know,
9:45
Speaker 3: is a studio does the studio own it? Is that
9:49
Speaker 3: the work of an odd tour And I would say
9:51
Speaker 3: in this case, it's this is a lesson that modern
9:55
Speaker 3: movie studios should take. Get out of the way, take
9:58
Speaker 3: the chance, drive the dump truck full money up and
10:01
Speaker 3: maybe you got a Cameron nowadays, or a Lucas or
10:05
Speaker 3: a Spielberger's or a Kazinski or somebody like that. Just
10:09
Speaker 3: don't meddle. Stay completely out of the mix here because
10:13
Speaker 3: Demill is, like you said, it's his last film. Nobody's
10:17
Speaker 3: telling him what to do on the set. He cecil
10:19
Speaker 3: be frickin' Demil and he's like, no, no, this is
10:23
Speaker 3: what's happening. And look what gets produced, you know, something
10:27
Speaker 3: for all the ages.
10:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's the thing is that. Uh it was
10:33
Speaker 2: Demil for all his genius, Like a lot of auteurs
10:36
Speaker 2: and a lot of geniuses in film. I mean, like
10:38
Speaker 2: my one of my favorite directors of all time, if
10:40
Speaker 2: not my favorite director, Fincher is, you know, and also
10:44
Speaker 2: Tarantino and Nolan, you know, like they're all on set
10:48
Speaker 2: and they demand everything they can out of everyone. You know,
10:52
Speaker 2: like Nolan doesn't allow chairs or cell phones. Fincher beerates everybody,
10:57
Speaker 2: and Tarantino like flies off the handle. Was no different,
11:01
Speaker 2: like just to give a little like he was kind
11:03
Speaker 2: of known for barking orders through a megaphone, demanding absolute obedience.
11:07
Speaker 2: Sure as we're often treated like background props rather than people.
11:12
Speaker 2: People have said that his leadership inspired inspired loyalty, but
11:16
Speaker 2: also fear. Uh and Baxter once said, you didn't act
11:20
Speaker 2: in a Demil picture. You obeyed in a Demil picture.
11:25
Speaker 2: And uh, I mean, but then you know, like this
11:27
Speaker 2: is uh, you know, this, this is what you get.
11:29
Speaker 2: This is the type of movie that you get. And
11:31
Speaker 2: you know, obviously he uh, you know, just to get
11:34
Speaker 2: it out of the way. Uh. He was not on
11:37
Speaker 2: the right side of history during the Red Scare. You know,
11:39
Speaker 2: he was a vocal supporter of the House of un
11:42
Speaker 2: American Activities Committee. Uh. He clashed very publicly with the
11:46
Speaker 2: Director's Guild, trying to force members members to sign a
11:49
Speaker 2: loyalty oath and all that kind of business. So you know,
11:52
Speaker 2: he was very binary in his in his in his
11:56
Speaker 2: thought processes of like right and wrong, black and white,
11:59
Speaker 2: and you know, it was it was interesting because like
12:03
Speaker 2: he came from the Silent era and he kind of
12:06
Speaker 2: you know, made his way into this division technicolor and
12:10
Speaker 2: kind of old Hollywood, like what we refer to as
12:13
Speaker 2: old Hollywood, but for him it was new and some
12:16
Speaker 2: like that is some criticisms of this movie is that
12:19
Speaker 2: sometimes it treats you know, uh, you know, moral the
12:25
Speaker 2: moral sometimes moral ambiguity as moral binaries. Just like that's
12:29
Speaker 2: kind of how Demil acted in his own life. Now,
12:33
Speaker 2: I just wanted to throw that out a little bit
12:35
Speaker 2: about Demil because this is a director focused podcast and
12:39
Speaker 2: we don't have We're not doing a whole section on
12:41
Speaker 2: de Mill, So I just wanted to get a little
12:42
Speaker 2: bit more, uh more history on him and kind of
12:45
Speaker 2: his personality so that we can kind of unpack it
12:47
Speaker 2: as we go throughout. And it was, uh, what I'm
12:54
Speaker 2: trying to get like kind of the some of the
12:55
Speaker 2: negative stuff out of the way, because right off the
12:59
Speaker 2: right off the bat, like this this movie had a
13:01
Speaker 2: budget of thirteen million dollars and it was one of
13:05
Speaker 2: the biggest budgets of all time. In today's dollars, that's
13:08
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty two million, which is still a
13:11
Speaker 2: huge chunk of change.
13:12
Speaker 3: Well, and I think, yeah, no, no, I was going
13:15
Speaker 3: to say, I mean, the thing is the easy thing
13:17
Speaker 3: to lose with that scale when you're like, oh, yeah, well,
13:19
Speaker 3: I mean they make two they make five hundred million
13:21
Speaker 3: dollar movies nowadays and stuff like that. But when you're
13:23
Speaker 3: talking about one hundred and forty seven million dollar movie,
13:26
Speaker 3: and every other movie costs less than a million dollars.
13:29
Speaker 3: I'm exaggerating for effect. Like it's the scale of this
13:33
Speaker 3: cannot be overstated. Like I think it might have been
13:36
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty seven million real dollars, but in
13:39
Speaker 3: terms of like actual financial footprint, this might as well
13:43
Speaker 3: have been a billion dollar movie. Like getting that type
13:46
Speaker 3: of funding was insane.
13:47
Speaker 2: And adjusted for inflation, this movie has made well over
13:50
Speaker 2: a billion adjusted for inflation. And I love that. I
13:54
Speaker 2: love that aspect of it because it's, like you said,
13:56
Speaker 2: like the scale, like for those of you who aren't
13:58
Speaker 2: familiar with the tim Commandman or haven't seen it or
14:02
Speaker 2: you know, didn't see it when you were a kid,
14:03
Speaker 2: or if you're like or for those people listening who
14:07
Speaker 2: are around back then or at least somewhat around back then.
14:10
Speaker 2: You know how this the scale of this, like you said,
14:14
Speaker 2: cannot be under sold.
14:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's one of those things as well, where
14:19
Speaker 3: when you're dealing with a production of that scale, I mean,
14:22
Speaker 3: Cameron comes under fire too, you know, whatever his politics
14:26
Speaker 3: are or anything like that. But like you give the
14:27
Speaker 3: guy two hundred and fifty million dollars and that person
14:30
Speaker 3: has to run a tight like they're basically a military
14:34
Speaker 3: commander at that point where it's like they got to
14:36
Speaker 3: a certain point where like they could they maybe could
14:38
Speaker 3: have been like brainstorming things and having creative bowl sessions
14:42
Speaker 3: in pre production stuff like that, but once they walk
14:45
Speaker 3: on the set, they have no choice. They're completely conscious
14:48
Speaker 3: that every single minute costs x amount of money and
14:52
Speaker 3: they cannot if they fall so much as one step behind,
14:55
Speaker 3: they're done. And it's like even Demil, like, you know,
15:00
Speaker 3: there's always so much you can go over and abuse
15:02
Speaker 3: the studio's love before they turn on you. And I'm
15:05
Speaker 3: sure he's completely aware of that fact.
15:07
Speaker 2: And the guy had a heart attack in the middle
15:10
Speaker 2: of filming and showed back up to set two days later.
15:14
Speaker 3: That's because what you That's what you did back then, man,
15:16
Speaker 3: that's what you could.
15:17
Speaker 4: You breathe great you nowadays now it I mean, I
15:21
Speaker 4: think you nailed it when you talk about how much
15:24
Speaker 4: a minute cost of production time because again, you know
15:28
Speaker 4: you have special effects as they were, but I mean
15:33
Speaker 4: you just have an allegion of extras. They are everywhere.
15:37
Speaker 4: They are in the background, they are in the foreground,
15:39
Speaker 4: I think still one of my favorite sequences is when
15:43
Speaker 4: Moses is raising the obelisk, because it's putting together all
15:47
Speaker 4: these different techniques of blue screen or a traveling matt
15:52
Speaker 4: is what they called it back then. You know, you
15:54
Speaker 4: have miniature work, you have a legion of extras, all
15:58
Speaker 4: executed to make you like you're in the middle of
16:01
Speaker 4: an Egyptian city being built around you. And you talk about,
16:06
Speaker 4: you know, the director being the head of the legion.
16:09
Speaker 4: I feel that the most in that scene, Like that's
16:12
Speaker 4: the you know, I could picture Debille like with a
16:16
Speaker 4: little flag, like, okay, extras with blue pennant, Now march
16:20
Speaker 4: that way, Like obviously that's not exactly how it happened,
16:23
Speaker 4: but you know that's what you had to do, as
16:25
Speaker 4: with his megaphone.
16:28
Speaker 3: Right, And it takes so long to set all of
16:30
Speaker 3: this stuff up that you can't miss more than once.
16:34
Speaker 3: Maybe you do, maybe you do a safety take, but
16:37
Speaker 3: like that's it. You don't have many chances to get
16:40
Speaker 3: this done because you can't. You can't be like, oh, well,
16:42
Speaker 3: we'll get it tomorrow. It's like, no, I have today
16:44
Speaker 3: to do this, and that's that's all that's going to happen.
16:47
Speaker 2: So in today's dollars, you talked about like production costs
16:50
Speaker 2: per minute, So in today's dollars, I just did the math.
16:54
Speaker 2: So in a three hour and thirty nine minute movie,
16:57
Speaker 2: adjusted for inflation, that's five hundred thousand a minute, like
17:03
Speaker 2: on the screen. That's on the screen. Not saying it
17:05
Speaker 2: costs them five hundred thousand dollars a minute to make
17:07
Speaker 2: a movie. Obviously that's absurd, but like that, like on
17:09
Speaker 2: the screen, every minute is five hundred thousand dollars simplified.
17:13
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm trying to make a point. Yeah, yeah,
17:15
Speaker 2: of course it's interesting.
17:18
Speaker 4: It is.
17:18
Speaker 3: And I think that also when you look at it
17:21
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, well, this is bygone era stuff.
17:24
Speaker 3: But it's one of those things where what I think
17:29
Speaker 3: is most fascinating about it. And I noticed as that,
17:32
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not unique in this fact, but like,
17:35
Speaker 3: since I watched it so recently for the first time,
17:37
Speaker 3: what was what was a neat moment for me was
17:41
Speaker 3: something I think modern audiences always have trouble wrapping their
17:44
Speaker 3: heads around, is staging and acting being much more stage like,
17:52
Speaker 3: much more live theater like. Because what you notice what
17:55
Speaker 3: I notice at least, and I'm sure What you guys
17:57
Speaker 3: notice as well, is there aren't like a lot of
18:00
Speaker 3: cuts to close up and stuff like that. It's like
18:03
Speaker 3: scenes play because you get to set up your camera.
18:07
Speaker 3: You don't have all of these nuanced things. You don't
18:09
Speaker 3: have a documentary film style. It's like it's all mastershot, right,
18:13
Speaker 3: it's all right there, and you know, so there's not
18:17
Speaker 3: a lot of coverage. You got to get it from
18:19
Speaker 3: beginning to finish, you know, because a screw up means
18:22
Speaker 3: you got to redo the whole thing because you can't
18:25
Speaker 3: cover it up with an edit. And that that's fascinating
18:28
Speaker 3: as well, Like how on point all of the talent
18:32
Speaker 3: on screen has to be to hit the mark, say
18:35
Speaker 3: the words, not screw up, deliver it the way Demil
18:39
Speaker 3: wants it delivered, and get it in in such a
18:42
Speaker 3: way that you can view the daily and be done
18:44
Speaker 3: with it. Like that's that's really precision work right there.
18:49
Speaker 2: Darren. You mentioned the granary scene when Moses is litting
18:54
Speaker 2: out the grain and everything like that. The City of Ramses.
18:58
Speaker 2: That set was the biggest set ever built for film
19:02
Speaker 2: at the time, and it was later buried in the
19:06
Speaker 2: desert because of sandstorms, and it was it was nicknamed
19:11
Speaker 2: the Lost City of the Mill, but it was it
19:13
Speaker 2: was rediscovered, like parts of it were rediscovered in twenty fourteen,
19:17
Speaker 2: which is not that long ago.
19:18
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
19:19
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy that a movie that was that was
19:21
Speaker 2: released in nineteen fifty six was lost in Egypt.
19:25
Speaker 3: But imagine how much that's going to screw with archaeologists
19:28
Speaker 3: two hundred years from now.
19:30
Speaker 4: So the pyramid was built out of brick. This pyramid
19:33
Speaker 4: was built out of aluminium and.
19:35
Speaker 3: Plow did theaster? How did they get these materials? What
19:39
Speaker 3: a mystery? Was it an alien civilization?
19:42
Speaker 4: Yeah?
19:42
Speaker 2: Is this a pepsi? So okay, So this was this
19:48
Speaker 2: was kind of okay in the forties, fifties, sixties, you
19:53
Speaker 2: got a lot of Hollywood is church mentality, Like, you
19:58
Speaker 2: got a lot of biblical movies, and this was kind
20:01
Speaker 2: of the peak of the Biblical epic and the Sandal Yeah,
20:07
Speaker 2: like Sword and Sandal era Biblical epic. DeMille delivered this
20:11
Speaker 2: and it kind of cemented Hollywood as a Biblical set piece.
20:17
Speaker 2: And you know, all of us love film. You know,
20:21
Speaker 2: over the century of film that we've had, and I've
20:25
Speaker 2: seen a lot of Biblical epics back in the day
20:28
Speaker 2: and I always kind of wish that they would come
20:29
Speaker 2: back because I love them so much. But then like
20:32
Speaker 2: we see people kind of dip their toes in it,
20:34
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's okay. Like we saw we saw
20:39
Speaker 2: ben hur remade, we saw this pseudo remade, and you're
20:44
Speaker 2: just like it's okay, now we're good. We're good. We'll
20:47
Speaker 2: just we'll just watch the older ones. What do you
20:50
Speaker 2: what do you guys think about the Biblical epic in
20:52
Speaker 2: this era? What did you think of and how it
20:55
Speaker 2: would play out today?
20:56
Speaker 4: Well, I think, you know, it kind of fits in
21:02
Speaker 4: two different ways. It fits in the scale. It's like
21:05
Speaker 4: you're going big. You know, you're not trying to make
21:08
Speaker 4: a budget Biblical epic, Like that's just not going to work.
21:12
Speaker 4: You have to go big or go home. But there's
21:16
Speaker 4: also you can tell a lot of craft into you know,
21:20
Speaker 4: his historical accuracy, trying to clothe people in the right costumes,
21:25
Speaker 4: and you know, draw on as many sources as you can. Obviously,
21:29
Speaker 4: it's still fiction as far as a movie that's being
21:33
Speaker 4: scripted and told, but you can feel that there is
21:38
Speaker 4: care put into the story and they're trying to tell
21:41
Speaker 4: it as well as they can. For the nineteen fifties.
21:46
Speaker 4: I think de Bill's favorite translation was the King James version,
21:51
Speaker 4: which he heavily relied on. And there's you know a
21:54
Speaker 4: lot of different you know, passages to pull from. But
21:58
Speaker 4: because this doesn't just start with like let my people go,
22:01
Speaker 4: like we got to get there, and it takes a
22:04
Speaker 4: couple of vhss to get there.
22:06
Speaker 3: I think that.
22:07
Speaker 2: Also, speaking speaking of which like his his King James
22:10
Speaker 2: Bible that he used on set, that he would reference
22:13
Speaker 2: on set, I think sold a couple of years ago.
22:17
Speaker 2: Actually I don't like a couple of years ago, but
22:18
Speaker 2: it sold for sixty grand, which I think little pittance.
22:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, that little, my gosh. I think that there are
22:28
Speaker 3: a couple of things missing from modern Hollywood that prevent
22:32
Speaker 3: these these sorts of like fun fun epics. And what
22:36
Speaker 3: I mean by that is there is a sense a
22:39
Speaker 3: spirit of wonder about this that is in there.
22:43
Speaker 2: And I think it's a.
22:43
Speaker 3: Sense of wonder from one somebody who doesn't feel like
22:47
Speaker 3: they're just telling a story. This is somebody who feels
22:50
Speaker 3: that they're saying something incredibly resonant and important to their
22:57
Speaker 3: very soul, to the marrow of their self, that come
23:00
Speaker 3: across very much. But I think number two, you have
23:06
Speaker 3: something where the sensibilities have changed. And that's fine, sensibilities
23:11
Speaker 3: change over time. But I fall back on this all
23:13
Speaker 3: the time. But a movie like this, a genre like this,
23:17
Speaker 3: the only way I can really think about it is
23:20
Speaker 3: the man who shot Liberty Valance and the moral of
23:22
Speaker 3: a story at the end of that, this is the
23:24
Speaker 3: West we tell the legend. You need somebody that's willing
23:27
Speaker 3: to come in and not say I'm gonna I'm going
23:30
Speaker 3: to humanize Ramses or I'm going to really draw, you know,
23:35
Speaker 3: inspiration from slave number five in the background behind Moses
23:41
Speaker 3: in the scene. No, you need somebody that comes in.
23:43
Speaker 3: It's like I'm telling a huge story about epic heroes
23:46
Speaker 3: that don't exist anymore. It's like that sort of Lord
23:50
Speaker 3: of the Rings sensibility almost where it's like this is
23:52
Speaker 3: from a bygone age and we couldn't hope to be
23:55
Speaker 3: this great again because we're not these people.
23:58
Speaker 2: Okay, stay with me here, I will. People's listening at home,
24:02
Speaker 2: don't turn off the podcast, and don't roll your eyes
24:04
Speaker 2: too hard. Oh Megalopolis. Okay, so with Megalopolis. I think
24:11
Speaker 2: that the only reason why I even I even remotely
24:15
Speaker 2: connected with it, or even people even gave it the
24:19
Speaker 2: time of day. Is because it was called a parable,
24:23
Speaker 2: like the movie itself was called a parable, and that
24:26
Speaker 2: allowed itself to go bigger than life and go crazy
24:29
Speaker 2: and have fun and be silly, but also try to
24:32
Speaker 2: tell a grandiose story with larger than life people. I
24:36
Speaker 2: think that's the only movie I've seen kind of touch
24:39
Speaker 2: that realm that you're talking about in recent days.
24:41
Speaker 3: I accept what you're saying, and I think anybody that
24:45
Speaker 3: dislikes what you said can go pound sand because Megalopolis
24:50
Speaker 3: is a movie where I've said numerous times, I'm like,
24:53
Speaker 3: I don't think it matters whether I like it or
24:54
Speaker 3: dislike it. I can't stop thinking about it, like it's
24:57
Speaker 3: just lodged in my skull, It's there all the time.
25:02
Speaker 3: And when I think of Adam Driver, I don't even
25:04
Speaker 3: think of Kylo Rent. I think Megalopolis, like it's that
25:08
Speaker 3: deeply in my brain. But I think, I think you
25:10
Speaker 3: put your finger on it is because it's it's informed
25:14
Speaker 3: by this same sensibility. I think that's a very apt
25:18
Speaker 3: comparison to draw, very apt Darren.
25:21
Speaker 2: You know, obviously, the main figure in this movie there's
25:25
Speaker 2: there's one protagonist, and that's that's Moses and as played
25:30
Speaker 2: by Chuck Heston. What did you think about his his portrayal.
25:34
Speaker 2: You know, some have considered it noble, booming, even mythic.
25:37
Speaker 4: What do you is it because it's a Ridell family
25:40
Speaker 4: favorite that he allows you to call him Chuck? Is that?
25:43
Speaker 2: Is that how it works? Like? That's that's how well
25:45
Speaker 2: I know Chuck. Is that I'm able to call him Chuck.
25:48
Speaker 2: You don't get to call him Chuck?
25:49
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, Well, Charleston Heston, as his billing states.
25:54
Speaker 2: You mean Charlton, not Charleston Charlton.
25:57
Speaker 4: Yes, that's what I said.
25:58
Speaker 3: I was a great taste, so Charles true.
26:02
Speaker 4: But you know, yeah, gosh, I think it really comes
26:06
Speaker 4: back to what we were saying just a few minutes ago,
26:09
Speaker 4: or as the VHS tape says an hour ago, about
26:14
Speaker 4: the theatricality of this movie. It is not just the
26:18
Speaker 4: wide takes, It's not just the grand sets. It's the
26:22
Speaker 4: fact that every person, especially Moses on stage, is projecting
26:28
Speaker 4: to the back of the camera every time they are
26:33
Speaker 4: bigger than life. They there is not you know, a
26:37
Speaker 4: tender moment where I'm going to be really close to
26:40
Speaker 4: Yule Brenner, and we're gonna whisper no, no, We're gonna
26:43
Speaker 4: say it as if the person in the back has
26:45
Speaker 4: to hear it. So all that to say, yeah, I
26:49
Speaker 4: mean you have to carry this performance. You're Moses. You
26:55
Speaker 4: know it is your story, and but it's also not
27:01
Speaker 4: a story where you need to sell it, if that
27:04
Speaker 4: makes sense. Like I don't feel like Moses has to
27:08
Speaker 4: sell being Moses. You know, he doesn't have to sell
27:11
Speaker 4: that aspect of it because the story is so big
27:14
Speaker 4: all around him. I would say Yule has the he
27:19
Speaker 4: lets me call Mule has the harder challenge in he
27:24
Speaker 4: has to make you connect with Ramses the second. I
27:28
Speaker 4: think by default you connect with Moses. Get what I'm saying.
27:31
Speaker 4: It's like a fine line. I'm not saying that Heston
27:35
Speaker 4: doesn't have to work for it, but it's a we
27:38
Speaker 4: know more about Moses than we do about Pharaoh.
27:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we're already on board. It's Moses. He's the hero.
27:45
Speaker 2: We know what's going to happen. We know the story
27:47
Speaker 2: before we watch it. We know he's the good guy.
27:49
Speaker 2: He listens to God, he gets called the book before.
27:53
Speaker 4: We watch the movie.
27:54
Speaker 2: Did we all read the book.
27:56
Speaker 3: Whole story is spoiled, but we wanted to watch it anyway.
28:00
Speaker 2: And because of this movie, like no small part, because
28:04
Speaker 2: of this movie, Exodus is my favorite book of the Bible.
28:07
Speaker 2: And I remember when I was younger and I was
28:08
Speaker 2: learning more and more about Exodus, and my pastor was
28:11
Speaker 2: talking to me about how it was just like, oh, yeah,
28:13
Speaker 2: Moses most likely had a stammer or a stutter because
28:17
Speaker 2: he's talked about how he was slow in speech and
28:19
Speaker 2: how his brother did most of the talking, and like
28:21
Speaker 2: it was so hard for me to recognize that on
28:25
Speaker 2: an intellectual level. I shouldn't say an intellectual on an
28:29
Speaker 2: emotional level, because on an intellectual level, I get it.
28:32
Speaker 2: On an emotional level, I'm like, nah, like the Litani people,
28:37
Speaker 2: go guy, the guy who you know, like Bull was
28:39
Speaker 2: his voice in a room.
28:40
Speaker 3: He was Chilton freaking Heston to the people. Yeah. Yeah,
28:46
Speaker 3: But that even gets back to some one of those
28:49
Speaker 3: things that gets tossed around that we've even talked about
28:52
Speaker 3: from time to time where it's like this becomes history
28:56
Speaker 3: in a sense where it's like, you know, it creates
29:00
Speaker 3: that log jam in somebody's brain when they like, you know,
29:04
Speaker 3: do the you know, the the reading or the study
29:07
Speaker 3: of the revisiting or what have you. And they're like,
29:10
Speaker 3: and this is stuck in their brain because it's like, wait, no,
29:13
Speaker 3: that's that's not how it was, was it? You know,
29:16
Speaker 3: like it's almost like you know, finding out that your
29:20
Speaker 3: dad dated a woman before your mom sort of thing
29:22
Speaker 3: where you're like, wait, what you know that's not.
29:25
Speaker 2: So apt, that's so that's so, that's so on point.
29:29
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I just I love Heston is one of
29:32
Speaker 2: my favorite actors of all time. I know that. I
29:36
Speaker 2: know that he gets a lot of crap because he's
29:38
Speaker 2: so melodramatic. He can be so over the top, but
29:42
Speaker 2: I don't care. That's what That's why I love him.
29:44
Speaker 2: I mean, that's he's like he's Shatner, Cage and Heston
29:49
Speaker 2: or like, yeah on my Mount Rushmore. I mean, I
29:52
Speaker 2: know I need a fourth one, but he's on my mount.
29:54
Speaker 2: They're on my Mount Rushmore of over actors who I
29:56
Speaker 2: absolutely love. But it's the swagger, it's the physicality. Heston
30:01
Speaker 2: walks in with a body movement in such a way
30:04
Speaker 2: that you just accept the over acting.
30:06
Speaker 3: You're just like, Okay, that's fine. But like he's not.
30:10
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel false. It feels like this guy really
30:13
Speaker 3: acts like this is a person you would meet, even
30:15
Speaker 3: though you know fully that that's not the person you
30:17
Speaker 3: would meet in real life.
30:19
Speaker 2: You sort of feel like like, I'm going to meet
30:20
Speaker 2: the Prince of Egypt. Like if I'm if I'm going
30:23
Speaker 2: to walk in and have a meeting to talk about
30:25
Speaker 2: Chuck Heston's taxes, you expect to meet the Prince of Egypt. Yeah,
30:29
Speaker 2: this was I think ben Her came out a couple
30:33
Speaker 2: of years after this, like three years after this, and
30:37
Speaker 2: holy crap, you know like that solidified the go to
30:40
Speaker 2: biblical hero stance that he had and it was and
30:45
Speaker 2: you actually you just watched ben Her not that long
30:47
Speaker 2: ago too.
30:48
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah? No, I still haven't seen ben Her. It
30:53
Speaker 3: was Spartacus for the show, that's right. I've never seen
30:55
Speaker 3: sparta You need.
30:57
Speaker 4: To I have seen Spartacus not.
31:00
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well you need to add that to your list.
31:04
Speaker 4: I do again.
31:05
Speaker 3: That was another one that would be on TV every
31:08
Speaker 3: so often and I'd see a scene here or there
31:10
Speaker 3: and I've just never gotten around to it. But yes,
31:11
Speaker 3: I promise, I will.
31:12
Speaker 2: I promise that.
31:13
Speaker 4: Well.
31:13
Speaker 2: Heston said that he approached Moses, not as a religious figure,
31:18
Speaker 2: but as a man of destiny overwhelmed by it. Darren,
31:22
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that statement? Do you think
31:23
Speaker 2: that came across?
31:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that is part of Moses's journey, is
31:30
Speaker 4: the I don't want to say reluctant hero because that's
31:34
Speaker 4: not quite the right term. But I think you said
31:37
Speaker 4: it right where destiny is forcing itself upon him and
31:42
Speaker 4: he will answer the call, but he doesn't seek the call,
31:46
Speaker 4: and so it's kind of a fine line. But no,
31:50
Speaker 4: he he handles it really well. And I'm glad we
31:54
Speaker 4: get you know, a whole vhs worth of him, you know,
31:58
Speaker 4: going through his life, through his rise as Pharaoh's second
32:03
Speaker 4: to losing I mean, it's an incredible arc, having being
32:07
Speaker 4: a prince of Egypt, losing everything coming back like narratively,
32:12
Speaker 4: you're just enraptured by it. And I mean we haven't
32:15
Speaker 4: mentioned Prince of Egypt, as I would say is a
32:19
Speaker 4: close second to this as far as tales of the
32:24
Speaker 4: Exodus story. But and they both have, you know, grandiose
32:29
Speaker 4: things for different reasons. But yeah, I think Hessen brings
32:34
Speaker 4: forth that desire to do good, but he knows there's
32:39
Speaker 4: a cost to everything, and he's playing against Pharaoh, and
32:44
Speaker 4: Pharaoh is in the time of Egypt is God. I'm
32:48
Speaker 4: not saying he is God, but I'm saying in the
32:49
Speaker 4: time of Egypt, like he could say everyone kill him
32:53
Speaker 4: and it would happen.
32:55
Speaker 2: God King, Yeah yeah, Pharaoh, God King, yeah yeah, absolutely.
32:58
Speaker 2: And and that brings us to Ule Britain, which we
33:00
Speaker 2: have talked about. He you Brenner is magnificent in this movie.
33:06
Speaker 2: And this this came out the same year as The
33:08
Speaker 2: King and I, Dude, what a year for Brenner. My
33:13
Speaker 2: my father in law actually got to see Yule Brenner
33:16
Speaker 2: perform The King and I on stage and I'm so
33:21
Speaker 2: insanely jealous of that memory. But the physicality of the role,
33:27
Speaker 2: the posture that You'll Bernner brought, I mean, he he
33:31
Speaker 2: almost literally dominates every single every single scene he's in,
33:38
Speaker 2: like he is the focal point of the scene and
33:41
Speaker 2: your eye naturally wanders just because of how he presents himself.
33:45
Speaker 3: Well, he has a regal bearing, if you will, and
33:49
Speaker 3: you know, maybe that's because he also comes from The
33:52
Speaker 3: King and I, where it's like he knew how to
33:54
Speaker 3: carry himself like royalty, like somebody who was born into
33:58
Speaker 3: a life of feeling that they were naturally Dane, superior
34:02
Speaker 3: to others. And you know, again it gets to that
34:06
Speaker 3: physicality question, and I think if you don't have somebody
34:12
Speaker 3: like Brenner up against Heston, doesn't it doesn't work. You
34:16
Speaker 3: need somebody with that charisma to go up against somebody
34:20
Speaker 3: with that much.
34:21
Speaker 2: You know, It's like the natural.
34:23
Speaker 3: Charisma battle of all time is going on on screen.
34:26
Speaker 3: But they're not doing it to try to one up
34:29
Speaker 3: each other. It's just they happen to be two magnetic
34:33
Speaker 3: forces in the same sphere, and it's like, how do
34:35
Speaker 3: I you know, So let's give credit to Demil because
34:38
Speaker 3: it's like he figured out how to balance it. You
34:40
Speaker 3: don't say that this is Yul Brynner's movie. You say
34:43
Speaker 3: it's Charlton Heston's movie. Even though when they're on screen
34:46
Speaker 3: together or when they're trading scenes or what have you,
34:50
Speaker 3: it's like, these are two big forces on screen like
34:54
Speaker 3: that that I mean that it just naturally gifted like that.
34:57
Speaker 2: Apparently this was this was no on set between the
35:01
Speaker 2: two of them, and they got along, even though it
35:05
Speaker 2: would have been very easy for these two egos to collide,
35:08
Speaker 2: and they had a friendly competition on who could get
35:11
Speaker 2: the best physique, and so they would work out constantly
35:16
Speaker 2: and show up on set with their shirt off and
35:19
Speaker 2: just kind of like eye each other up and down
35:21
Speaker 2: to see like who's been working the quads or who's
35:23
Speaker 2: been working the biceps for That makes.
35:25
Speaker 4: Me think of I think it was a story told
35:29
Speaker 4: by Schwarzenegger that in the filming A Predator, him and
35:37
Speaker 4: Carl Yeah, Carl Weathers would would like do our measurement
35:41
Speaker 4: comparisons like on the daily they were just and they're bothed,
35:46
Speaker 4: like peak peak physical specimens at the time. I could
35:51
Speaker 4: totally picture eul and Charleston being like, you know.
35:58
Speaker 3: Having fun with it though, and it's and it's not
36:00
Speaker 3: in the era of like what we get now where
36:03
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, well, I went home and my personal trainer,
36:06
Speaker 3: you know, came up with a regiment and I had
36:08
Speaker 3: my three Like these guys were just going out and
36:10
Speaker 3: just hustling and working with just free weights and just.
36:17
Speaker 2: Just slamming semi tires with hammers, you know, just that's
36:20
Speaker 2: what they're doing. Yeah, the old fashioned ben affleck Yeah, okay,
36:25
Speaker 2: so okay, so supporting cast. Holy crap, we got Ann
36:29
Speaker 2: Baxter as Nefertii, Edward G. Robinson for as Dathan, Deborah
36:34
Speaker 2: Patchett is Lilia, Yvonne de carlois Sephora, John Derek as
36:38
Speaker 2: Joshua Oh, Cedric Hardwick as Seti, and Marcia Scott as Joshabelle,
36:45
Speaker 2: Judith Anderson as Mimnet, Vincent Prices bacha there, and John
36:49
Speaker 2: Carrodine as Aaron. Just holy crap, you know, like like
36:55
Speaker 2: if like like you talked about, like if you're gonna
36:56
Speaker 2: have Heston, you gotta have Brenner. If you're gonna have
36:58
Speaker 2: Brenner and Heston together, you got to bring some heavyweights
37:02
Speaker 2: as the supporting cast, otherwise everyone's gonna get lost. Yes,
37:06
Speaker 2: did you guys? Did you guys have a favorite side
37:08
Speaker 2: supporting character besides like somebody who was at Briner or for.
37:12
Speaker 3: Me, it's always gonna be Vincent Price because that guy,
37:15
Speaker 3: that guy knew how to have fun with a line.
37:18
Speaker 3: He knew how to deliver a line in such a
37:20
Speaker 3: way that it's like it felt like he was just
37:22
Speaker 3: enjoying saying the words, and it was like I always
37:25
Speaker 3: love him on screen.
37:26
Speaker 2: You've seen me use my whip it.
37:29
Speaker 3: Yes, the guy, I mean, come on right, like I
37:32
Speaker 3: remember watching it the first time. It was a big smile, like, man,
37:35
Speaker 3: this guy is just so good, like it's so great.
37:38
Speaker 3: And another guy that it just seems to come so
37:40
Speaker 3: effortless for him, where he's just like like you almost
37:44
Speaker 3: and you know it's not this straightforward, but almost he
37:47
Speaker 3: makes it feel like he walked on and it was like, yeah,
37:49
Speaker 3: I got it, Cecil, I know what I'm doing here.
37:51
Speaker 3: You know, you know, it's not that simple for anybody,
37:54
Speaker 3: but like it feels that natural easy for him, and
37:59
Speaker 3: so yeah, he's my face.
38:00
Speaker 4: I mean, I love Vince it too, but I have
38:02
Speaker 4: to give it to Anne Baxter. At the times when
38:07
Speaker 4: she is ripping poison into the ear of Pharaoh and
38:13
Speaker 4: twisting him in the wind, you're just like you because
38:16
Speaker 4: you have to believe it. You have to believe that
38:19
Speaker 4: she is basically telling Pharaoh what to do in front
38:24
Speaker 4: of everybody else and he listens, and she all nails
38:28
Speaker 4: it well.
38:29
Speaker 2: In the In the book, you know, it says that
38:32
Speaker 2: God hardened Pharaoh's heart, which I always thought was a cheat.
38:36
Speaker 2: But you know, like in the movie, they're showing that
38:38
Speaker 2: nephritii is is the instrument which God used to hard
38:44
Speaker 2: in his heart and it's I thought it was an
38:47
Speaker 2: interesting choice. And she's so. I had such a crush
38:50
Speaker 2: on her when I was a kid, her and Yvonne
38:53
Speaker 2: de Carlo because I was just like, oh my god.
38:55
Speaker 2: Oh it's literally from the Monsters.
38:57
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I just think that too.
38:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
39:00
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and the thing that I love, because
39:02
Speaker 3: you know, it's obviously an artifact of the time, is
39:05
Speaker 3: just the way that you can tell that it's you know,
39:09
Speaker 3: like again, another thing is like nowadays would be like,
39:12
Speaker 3: how do we get really period specific? Okay, nobody bathed
39:15
Speaker 3: for like three weeks, you know, while we get on
39:17
Speaker 3: screen and nobody's allowed to use indoor plumbing okay, and
39:20
Speaker 3: we're gonna live in the middle of the desert sort
39:21
Speaker 3: of thing. Whereas this, again it gets back to the
39:24
Speaker 3: stage production thing. It's about the lavish costume. It's about
39:28
Speaker 3: the way you do the person up because you're not
39:31
Speaker 3: going there for anything but the spectacle of it. And
39:34
Speaker 3: it feels this is gonna sound weird, but when you
39:37
Speaker 3: watch a movie like this, it almost feels like it's
39:40
Speaker 3: an acknowledgment of respect for the audience to say you,
39:46
Speaker 3: you spent your hard earned money and you took your
39:49
Speaker 3: time to come out here. We're gonna give you a
39:51
Speaker 3: luxury presentation right now. And everybody sitting in that audience
39:56
Speaker 3: isn't sitting there going yeah teeth. We're that good. Back
39:59
Speaker 3: then then before anybody brushing teeth.
40:02
Speaker 2: I didn't see a single person use their hand as
40:05
Speaker 2: toilet paper. What is this?
40:06
Speaker 4: Not a one?
40:07
Speaker 3: Not a one?
40:08
Speaker 4: Somehow?
40:09
Speaker 3: You know, Moses doesn't walk in from the desert and
40:12
Speaker 3: somebody smells them from six miles away. It's like, whoa brother,
40:15
Speaker 3: what's going on?
40:17
Speaker 4: Right?
40:17
Speaker 2: And you know that's also SETI was most likely trashed,
40:21
Speaker 2: like most of the time, because they would get so
40:24
Speaker 2: much sand in the bread, yeah, that it would wear
40:28
Speaker 2: down your teeth, and he was in pain constantly, and
40:32
Speaker 2: the only way to alleviate the pain was wine. So
40:35
Speaker 2: I'm saying that literally, like SETI was most likely trashed
40:38
Speaker 2: the entire time. Yeah, yeah, it's a yeah this yes, Okay,
40:44
Speaker 2: So I think we're we're at forty three minutes and
40:49
Speaker 2: we're still talking about.
40:50
Speaker 4: In the second VHS.
40:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to move forward a little bit faster,
40:55
Speaker 2: and so let's talk about some of the visuals in
40:57
Speaker 2: the in the technique behind some of those visuals because
41:01
Speaker 2: the cinematographer was Loyal Griggs, who won the Oscar for Shane.
41:06
Speaker 2: Shane is a beautiful movie that came out just a
41:09
Speaker 2: couple of years before The Ten Commandments. This was filmed
41:12
Speaker 2: and as we talked about, VistaVision using you know, really
41:15
Speaker 2: wide and really bright technicolor, and it really it just
41:19
Speaker 2: highlighted everything on screen, from the fabrics that John you
41:22
Speaker 2: were talking about, to the cities that Darren you were
41:24
Speaker 2: talking about. Everything is just pops, just absolutely pops. And
41:29
Speaker 2: you know, seeing it this wide on the sky, I
41:31
Speaker 2: want to see this on the big screen so bad. Yeah.
41:34
Speaker 2: And you know, of course there's the Red Sea sequence,
41:37
Speaker 2: which was absolutely groundbreaking for the time and I think
41:41
Speaker 2: they I think they won the Oscar for that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
41:45
Speaker 2: the special effects team. How could they not have How
41:47
Speaker 2: could they not?
41:48
Speaker 3: I'd like to see you part of the sea, but yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
41:55
Speaker 3: that's yeah yeah.
41:56
Speaker 2: And it's like what they did was and it's it's
41:59
Speaker 2: you know, it's obvious to us now, but they had
42:01
Speaker 2: a huge tank that they filled with lots of water
42:04
Speaker 2: all at once and then they you know, threw it
42:06
Speaker 2: in reverse and that's how they showed the parting of
42:09
Speaker 2: the Red Sea, but I think it still holds up personally, like,
42:12
Speaker 2: obviously it looks like it was shot in the fifties,
42:14
Speaker 2: but it's.
42:17
Speaker 3: Still like it's all inspiring to see it, and you
42:21
Speaker 3: respect how much work went into it. And I consider
42:24
Speaker 3: it a true blessing that I have seen the machine
42:28
Speaker 3: that they use for the optical printing on the Ten Commandments,
42:32
Speaker 3: and I was like, that was pointed out to me
42:35
Speaker 3: even before I'd ever seen the film, and I was like, wow,
42:37
Speaker 3: that's a piece of film history. And then when I
42:39
Speaker 3: saw it, I was like, wow, that's a piece of
42:41
Speaker 3: film history. My goodness gracious, because another thing that gets lost,
42:47
Speaker 3: especially the era of the computer. When they composited those scenes,
42:53
Speaker 3: it wasn't just like all right, throw some blue screen in,
42:55
Speaker 3: we're gonna do an erase here, and we're gonna do
42:57
Speaker 3: a magic erase there, and we're gonna, you know, color
42:59
Speaker 3: grate like it was. I have this strip of film,
43:02
Speaker 3: and this strip of film and this strip of film.
43:04
Speaker 3: I'm going to run them through and I'm going to
43:07
Speaker 3: photograph all three of them sitting on top of each other,
43:10
Speaker 3: and pray to God that none of these things fall
43:13
Speaker 3: out of sync. Otherwise Moses is going to be shaking
43:16
Speaker 3: by like a quarter inch while everything else stays steady.
43:19
Speaker 3: And it's like it's it's unfathomable to people who don't
43:25
Speaker 3: know film history how hard that scene was to put together,
43:31
Speaker 3: Like how in you know like it is? It is
43:34
Speaker 3: James Cameron George Lucas level of insane of walking on
43:39
Speaker 3: set and being like no, no, no, wait what there
43:41
Speaker 3: it's a blue box? What are you talking about? Right
43:44
Speaker 3: like back in you know, the early two thousands, what
43:47
Speaker 3: a crazy idea? This is way beyond that, Like this
43:51
Speaker 3: is just production scale. I'm sorry, you know, yeah, my point.
43:56
Speaker 4: You're saying it, I mean optical printing is is still
44:00
Speaker 4: a black magic science that I don't fully understand. And
44:04
Speaker 4: to give context for its win for best Special Effects,
44:08
Speaker 4: it was up against one other movie. That movie was
44:11
Speaker 4: Forbidden Planet that it beat, which I'm sure the people
44:16
Speaker 4: a Forbidden Planet were like, we got this in the bag,
44:19
Speaker 4: what could possibly beat us for special effects? And then
44:24
Speaker 4: a little Moses picture came along and part of the
44:28
Speaker 4: Red Sea.
44:32
Speaker 3: The dominations came out. The producers like kicking his his
44:35
Speaker 3: his his.
44:36
Speaker 4: Foot, told you.
44:41
Speaker 2: There's it's like those people in the industry who somehow
44:44
Speaker 2: didn't know Titanic was coming out. You're like, God, dang it,
44:46
Speaker 2: I thought we were safe. Yeah, exactly, exactly so his
44:50
Speaker 2: editor in longtime collaborator and Brouchins. She was one of
44:56
Speaker 2: the first women ever to win an Oscar for editing.
44:59
Speaker 2: This was in the f And that's again, that's when
45:02
Speaker 2: you think about and Brownchin's of of yesterday and the
45:07
Speaker 2: Thelma Schumacher of today. Pretty great history to be a
45:10
Speaker 2: part of. I want to move on to. I know
45:13
Speaker 2: sometimes we forget this, but we cannot forget this with
45:16
Speaker 2: this movie. Is the music and sound by Elmer Bernstein.
45:20
Speaker 2: He he's done. He did The Magnificent Seven and To
45:24
Speaker 2: Kill a Mockingbird, and so this guy knows what he's doing. Like, John,
45:30
Speaker 2: how did you feel with the music? Like was it
45:34
Speaker 2: two over the top? Was it two in your face?
45:36
Speaker 2: Or did it meet the scale of the visuals? No,
45:39
Speaker 2: it's completely appropriate for the scale.
45:41
Speaker 3: But but this is, you know, to I think the
45:43
Speaker 3: point you're you're getting at, right, this is this is
45:47
Speaker 3: John Williams working with Spielberg on Jaws, like you just
45:50
Speaker 3: can't imagine. And it's the right amount of everything, and
45:54
Speaker 3: especially the fact that at the beginning, when the bomb
45:57
Speaker 3: bast starts up, that's is a declaration you are no
46:02
Speaker 3: longer in the real world. You are transported and the
46:07
Speaker 3: you're going to a grand epic that is beyond the
46:11
Speaker 3: limits of your every day And the music, I think
46:14
Speaker 3: is just an important declaration and I just it just
46:17
Speaker 3: keeps it up. It's the right music for what is
46:21
Speaker 3: on screen.
46:22
Speaker 2: You'll you'll like this, John, is that the trumpets at
46:25
Speaker 2: the beginning that you're talking about, the mill insisted that
46:28
Speaker 2: they be recorded live in a cathedral to get the
46:31
Speaker 2: right sound. I love it.
46:33
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it, and I love the
46:35
Speaker 3: fact that speaking of like the sound and everything like that,
46:38
Speaker 3: that the first time I watched this was when I realized,
46:42
Speaker 3: I believe it's the that there's a show far in
46:44
Speaker 3: this where I heard it and I went, oh, they
46:48
Speaker 3: reused that for the e walks in Return of the Jedi.
46:50
Speaker 3: That's what the horn was. And I was like, yep,
46:52
Speaker 3: it was an audio easter egg where I heard it
46:56
Speaker 3: and I was like, of course, of course.
46:58
Speaker 4: That William Willems scream of horn.
47:01
Speaker 2: Rings, yeah, And I was like they did it. Yeah, Oh,
47:04
Speaker 2: Darren you'll you'll like this. So Bernstein, they there was
47:09
Speaker 2: studio revisions after the first cut, like a lot of
47:12
Speaker 2: studio revisions, and Damil had so much footage. He's like, fine,
47:16
Speaker 2: like you can, you can put it together. But that
47:19
Speaker 2: meant that Bernstein needed a lot more music and a
47:23
Speaker 2: lot different music, and so in three weeks he wrote
47:26
Speaker 2: ninety minutes of new music.
47:28
Speaker 3: It's insane.
47:30
Speaker 4: Well, I'm amazed. I'm just looking at his discography and
47:34
Speaker 4: like the guy kept working, like he did composition things
47:38
Speaker 4: for Ghostbusters three Amigos, Like he just kept going and
47:43
Speaker 4: going well into the nineties. So I'm amazed at that. Ah. Yeah, No,
47:51
Speaker 4: I think I think you nailed it when you said
47:53
Speaker 4: from the opening prologue, you know, you know what you're getting,
47:59
Speaker 4: and you use it right there. You know, in the
48:01
Speaker 4: beginning of this episode, our listeners also knew what they
48:04
Speaker 4: would be getting in this episode. And yeah, the music
48:08
Speaker 4: is so good in this it's grand. But it has
48:12
Speaker 4: to be grand. Not one part of this movie can
48:15
Speaker 4: be small.
48:16
Speaker 2: Nope, Darren want to I want to ask you. I
48:19
Speaker 2: kind of want to end on talking about the themes
48:22
Speaker 2: of this movie, where you know, some people see Moses
48:26
Speaker 2: versus Rameses as a metaphor for faith versus ego or
48:31
Speaker 2: God versus an empire. Demil himself said that this movie
48:35
Speaker 2: was quote about the choice between being ruled by God's
48:38
Speaker 2: law or the whims of a dictator. What are some
48:41
Speaker 2: of the themes that you take away specifically from this movie?
48:45
Speaker 2: Not Exodus, but from this movie? What do you what?
48:50
Speaker 2: Taps you on the shoulder and says, this is what
48:52
Speaker 2: I'm about.
48:52
Speaker 4: You know, well, in this five page document I've just
48:55
Speaker 4: written up on that question, I'll summarize my thoughts in
48:58
Speaker 4: thirty seconds. No, I think on a macro meta level,
49:05
Speaker 4: it's a movie that's not afraid to tell the story
49:08
Speaker 4: how the director wants to tell it. It's big, it's colorful,
49:13
Speaker 4: it's loud. On a story level, though in the story,
49:18
Speaker 4: I love how much is not cut out of the
49:22
Speaker 4: Exodus story. I love how there is lots of little
49:26
Speaker 4: pieces and moments establishing all of our secondary characters, all
49:30
Speaker 4: of the pieces that are going on, because otherwise it
49:34
Speaker 4: becomes a two person show. It's like, okay, well, if
49:37
Speaker 4: Moses isn't on screen right now, then I'm bored, Like
49:40
Speaker 4: you never get that because they're investing in all of
49:46
Speaker 4: the characters. But you know, as we've watched a lot
49:50
Speaker 4: of movies and anyone who's ever had to make a movie,
49:53
Speaker 4: when you start to actually break down like minutes of
49:57
Speaker 4: time for your characters, it goes by really fast, and
50:02
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I only have so many minutes to
50:05
Speaker 4: get my characters from you know, burning Bush to getting
50:10
Speaker 4: back to Egypt and all of that. How do you
50:13
Speaker 4: you know, optimize that to tell the best story. And
50:18
Speaker 4: one last thing I'll say in that context, you know,
50:21
Speaker 4: we've we've talked about directors and their blank checks of like,
50:25
Speaker 4: oh they did something. There's I'm feeling like there's kind
50:28
Speaker 4: of two kind of blank checks. There's you did a
50:31
Speaker 4: good movie, now you're here's your next one. And then
50:34
Speaker 4: there's a lifetime achievement kind of blank check where here
50:39
Speaker 4: you could say, I'm so and so so I'm gonna
50:42
Speaker 4: make this and this is the latter and I'm glad
50:47
Speaker 4: that he made this movie. Uh, not just to talk
50:50
Speaker 4: about but to impact people, and it's yearly viewings impact
50:55
Speaker 4: you know, believers and non believers alike. On the scope
50:58
Speaker 4: of this story.
50:59
Speaker 3: John, same question, I'd say, if anything, it's you know,
51:03
Speaker 3: it's the classic sort of heroic take of perseverance where
51:08
Speaker 3: when you're in a moment at the end, Moses doesn't
51:12
Speaker 3: even really get what everybody would want at the end,
51:17
Speaker 3: but he does the job anyway. And it's like that's that.
51:20
Speaker 3: If anything I would say is people can accuse me
51:24
Speaker 3: of whatever for the way I phrase this, but that's
51:26
Speaker 3: sort of like a classic American tale where you know,
51:29
Speaker 3: it's like it's like Rocky where it's like it doesn't
51:31
Speaker 3: matter whether I win, I just want the shot and
51:34
Speaker 3: let me do what I need to do. And Moses is,
51:38
Speaker 3: you know, like like you were saying earlier, like greatness
51:42
Speaker 3: is thrust upon him, but he doesn't shirk from it
51:45
Speaker 3: and he's not afraid of it, and Darren, like you
51:47
Speaker 3: were saying, he doesn't. He's not a reluctant hero. He
51:52
Speaker 3: it's like it happens and he's like, oh, well, all right,
51:55
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's what I'm supposed to do. So
51:57
Speaker 3: that's what I'm supposed to do, and so I think it.
52:00
Speaker 3: If anything, there's also a lot of like the nobility
52:04
Speaker 3: of you know, doing the job that you're given, which
52:08
Speaker 3: seems like a really reductive way to state it. But
52:10
Speaker 3: it's like when you find yourself in that moment or
52:13
Speaker 3: you have the thing to do, you're not worried about
52:16
Speaker 3: the reward. You're worried about what you have to get
52:18
Speaker 3: done for things to work. And I think that is
52:23
Speaker 3: I think that's very much in the marrow of it,
52:26
Speaker 3: is that you're you know, you're put in a situation
52:28
Speaker 3: and you got to get things done. But it doesn't
52:31
Speaker 3: you know, even when you're unaware of where you came from,
52:35
Speaker 3: as Moses is right, when you're confronted with who you are,
52:39
Speaker 3: you embrace it and you you you know, you persevere,
52:45
Speaker 3: you you do the right thing in the moment.
52:47
Speaker 2: That sort of stuff. Well, there's a reason why this
52:50
Speaker 2: movie is kind of the pinnacle of Golden Age and
52:53
Speaker 2: of spectacle, and it deserves its praise. I mean, there's
52:56
Speaker 2: like there's a reason why it's shown on ABC every
52:59
Speaker 2: single year for Passover in Easter, and it's there's so
53:03
Speaker 2: many things that you can take out of it. You know,
53:05
Speaker 2: some people can say it works as theology, some people
53:08
Speaker 2: can say it works as entertainment. Some even say it
53:10
Speaker 2: can work as propaganda. You know, it depends on how
53:12
Speaker 2: you look at it. And I think it gives a
53:14
Speaker 2: little slice of the person who is looking at it,
53:17
Speaker 2: and some of the great greatest films in history can
53:20
Speaker 2: do that and can be divisive while at the same
53:23
Speaker 2: time be praised for what it achieves thematically, visually, you know,
53:30
Speaker 2: audio wise, everything. And so I'm just going to go
53:33
Speaker 2: straight to it and say that this is a six
53:35
Speaker 2: star film for me. I absolutely love this movie. This
53:38
Speaker 2: is this is something that will be with me for
53:42
Speaker 2: the rest of my life and my kids' lives, and
53:45
Speaker 2: it was with my parents. You know. It's just this
53:48
Speaker 2: is something that you pass down. This is one of
53:50
Speaker 2: the it's like Star Wars, you know, like it's a
53:52
Speaker 2: big deal when you sit down and watch this with
53:55
Speaker 2: your kids, like you're passing it on in the next generation.
53:57
Speaker 2: I'm not saying everybody does that with the Ten Commandments,
53:59
Speaker 2: but I feel like that's a touchstone for all of
54:01
Speaker 2: us with Star Wars, and that's how I am with
54:04
Speaker 2: The tim Commandments. And we had a cat who was
54:08
Speaker 2: named Moses purely because of this movie, not because of
54:13
Speaker 2: the actual Moses, but because of trust Estine's interpretation of it.
54:17
Speaker 2: Like we would pick him up, we would pick up Moses,
54:21
Speaker 2: and just like Card him around the room going.
54:23
Speaker 3: Moses, Moses, that's how much we love this movie, and
54:28
Speaker 3: the cat would say, let my litter go. Yeah, I yeah,
54:34
Speaker 3: this is an easy like easy five six, that five thousand.
54:40
Speaker 3: This is a movie that defies rating honestly, Like it's
54:45
Speaker 3: almost like, what's the point of Like this one challenges
54:48
Speaker 3: the whole idea of a star rating scale because it's like,
54:52
Speaker 3: I mean, no matter what I give it, it doesn't
54:54
Speaker 3: feel like it's enough. Simply even if I were to
54:58
Speaker 3: walk out of this, and I'm not saying I did,
55:00
Speaker 3: but even if I were to walk out it and
55:01
Speaker 3: be like, eh, geez, I hated that, I would still
55:04
Speaker 3: give it five stars because I'm like, but good lord,
55:08
Speaker 3: look at what went into this. You know, even if
55:10
Speaker 3: it doesn't work for you, you gotta respect the hell out
55:12
Speaker 3: of this thing. Easy five, unquestionable.
55:14
Speaker 2: Five here, Darren's going to come in within.
55:16
Speaker 4: Two and a half now probably, Now just move the
55:20
Speaker 4: decimal point over one point two five. Yeah, you can't.
55:25
Speaker 4: You can't come back to this and be like, oh, well,
55:27
Speaker 4: there's only ten thousand extras. If it was twenty, yeah,
55:31
Speaker 4: I could see. But you just skimped on that part,
55:34
Speaker 4: didn't you. No, I think you guys nailed it. It's
55:38
Speaker 4: it's beyond scale in a way, like we're saying five
55:42
Speaker 4: oh top rating, but why even like we all knew,
55:45
Speaker 4: I almost filled it out in the spreadsheet before we
55:47
Speaker 4: even started talking, like what would we possibly put?
55:51
Speaker 2: But I still enjoyed the discussion.
55:54
Speaker 4: And all the different ways. It's just a great, great
56:00
Speaker 4: movie and it will stand the test of time. It's
56:03
Speaker 4: still standing the test of time. So that you know, DeMille,
56:08
Speaker 4: guy got to keep an eye on him.
56:10
Speaker 2: Up and comer, Darren, what are we doing next week?
56:14
Speaker 2: Because we're not continuing with the mill, but we are
56:16
Speaker 2: starting a new director, a director that some people have
56:19
Speaker 2: written us about and one podcaster on this panel has
56:23
Speaker 2: been screaming about for a very long time. So Darren,
56:26
Speaker 2: what are we doing?
56:27
Speaker 4: That's right? Next week we're going to be starting a
56:29
Speaker 4: new series on Catherine Bigelow, starting with her nineteen eighty
56:34
Speaker 4: seven picture Near Dark.
56:36
Speaker 2: Here on house Lights
56:38
Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.