Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 182 - David Solomon - CEO of Thalia Therapeutics

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Episode 182 - David Solomon - CEO of Thalia Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub.
0:09
Today we're delighted to welcome on David Sullivan, who's the CEO
0:12
of Thalia Therapeutics, who are focused on advancing innovative
0:16
RNA therapeutics and next generation delivery
0:19
technologies. Over the course of David's
0:21
career, he's LED multiple publicly listed and private
0:24
biotech companies in both the US and Europe, including Zeeland
0:28
Pharma and Silence Therapeutic. At Thalia Therapeutics, David is
0:32
leading the company's strategic expansion into high value RNA
0:36
therapeutics with a focus on cardiovascular diseases and
0:40
oncology, whilst advancing the company's proprietary new vet
0:44
delivery platform. So David, it's, it's an absolute
0:47
pleasure to have you on. How are you?
0:49
Very well and thanks for having me.
0:52
Yeah, it's, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on.
0:55
So let's, let's just start off with a little bit about your
0:58
journey through the field, how you got to where you are today.
1:00
So you've spent decades in biotech and RNA therapeutics
1:03
across companies such as Cylance Therapeutics and Zealand Pharma.
1:08
Just talk us through what first attracted you to the industry
1:11
and what have been some of the biggest lessons you've learned
1:14
in your journey so far. Yeah, Thank you.
1:18
Well, my journey actually started in academics.
1:22
I was earlier a professor of both pharmacology and neurology
1:27
at Columbia University's School of Medicine in New York City for
1:31
near near 10 years. So I really, you know, started
1:35
from an approach of, of a certain discipline about
1:38
discovery of, of new ideas of mechanisms of action of, of, I
1:42
think trying to aspire towards fine science.
1:46
But I, I left Columbia and really moved ultimately to an
1:51
investment fund that I helped found called Carrot Capital
1:55
Healthcare Ventures in New York City.
1:57
And in doing that, we started applying capital to good science
2:02
so that we could advance innovative medicines as an an
2:06
early and seed stage investor and then syndicated with other
2:10
good investors and advanced the company with dedicated
2:14
management teams. And so it was really the idea of
2:17
merging together corporate finance on one hand and and
2:20
innovative science on the other that became sort of the the two
2:24
key pillars of my career. And ultimately I went on to my
2:27
happiest place being CEO of companies I love, working with
2:30
high performing teams and innovative assets and ultimately
2:33
bringing really important products to patients, their
2:37
families and their caregivers. And this was really the, you
2:40
know, the opportunity and the challenge.
2:42
At Zealand, we had discovered one of the first GLP one
2:45
receptor agonists and ultimately did licensing deals with Santa
2:49
Fe, with Burger, with Lily, among others to advance these
2:54
medicines, now leading the charge in the treatment of not
2:58
only obesity but also diabetes. And so that innovation, you
3:03
know, was so important, but bringing also the academic
3:06
discipline and also the corporate finance discipline.
3:09
Amazing. So just talk us through, you
3:11
mentioned some of the companies that you've worked at previously
3:14
as CEO. What what made Sally
3:17
Therapeutics the right opportunity for you at this
3:20
stage in your career? Well, as you know, in, in, in
3:23
biotech and healthcare, you have to really be a futurist.
3:26
You have to think not about the medicines that are going to be
3:29
needed tomorrow by patients, their caregivers, but medicines
3:33
that will be necessary to treat serious disease in the next 20
3:37
years. So much as we had that approach
3:40
at Zealand with the GLP one receptor agonist class as early
3:44
as 2008, 2009. The same is true in RNA
3:47
therapeutics. There are, you know, the success
3:51
of of COVID vaccines mRNA was evident in how fast you could go
3:56
to bring safe and well tolerated solutions in very urgent
4:01
conditions. But then companies like Alnylam
4:04
have really led the charge on gene silencing, siRNA, double
4:07
stranded RNA that silences genes.
4:10
And there are now approximately 6:00-ish products, RNA
4:16
therapeutic products approved generating significant billion
4:21
dollar revenue today. But there's still lots to
4:24
explore because those products target essentially genes only in
4:28
the liver, in hepatocytes. And there are siRNA medicines,
4:33
but there are no, for example, micro RNA medicines, although
4:38
they're coming online to modify gene expression.
4:41
So I thought there was still a lot of room for targeting
4:43
different cells and organs, for coming up with solutions of
4:46
combinations, for thinking about micro RNA as a possible, you
4:51
know, methodology. So the timing seemed ripe and I
4:55
like working in public companies in so far as you have access to
4:58
capital. So if Thalia in its newest way
5:02
of thinking can bring on innovative new therapeutic
5:07
products that are RNA therapeutics, I think it's
5:09
likely we can find interested investors, first retail
5:14
investors on the London Stock Exchange, but then institutional
5:17
investors. And ultimately, as we advance,
5:20
those products really grow value for shareholders, but also
5:23
advance products for patients, their families and caregivers.
5:27
Amazing. And yeah, one, one of the things
5:30
that was announced fairly recently was the name transition
5:33
from N4 Pharma to Thalia Therapeutics.
5:37
Just talk us through like, why was that change important and
5:40
what does the new identity represent for for the company
5:44
now? Sure.
5:45
So Thalia in, in in modern Greek means to blossom or to grow.
5:50
And I, I really, you know, firmly believe that growing
5:54
innovative ideas and assets and products is really the hallmark
5:58
of the beginning of the journey of really good healthcare
6:02
companies, good biotech companies and for pharma had a
6:05
very good product and approach in Nuvac, a delivery system for
6:10
therapeutics. But in my view, this would be
6:14
better served by bringing on our own proprietary therapeutics and
6:19
then ultimately using those as both stand alone and also with
6:22
Nuvec in targeting different cells and organs for delivery of
6:26
these therapeutics. And I thought that the
6:27
combination together with discussions with our board would
6:32
bring a more potent offering for shareholder value, but also for
6:36
patients and their caregivers. Amazing.
6:40
Just talk us through like what, what, how would you describe the
6:43
new direction of Thalia today? And just talk us through where
6:46
do you see the company fitting into the broader RNA therapeutic
6:50
landscape as well? Just talk us through that.
6:53
Sure. Well, you know, when you think
6:55
about other companies in the space, for example, companies
6:58
that are doing siRNA gene silencing, leaders being
7:02
Alnylam, of course, and Arrowhead, my former silence,
7:06
you know, they're all targeting single target assets.
7:10
They're all targeting essentially the liver because
7:13
you can add Galmac, which is a modified carbohydrate that binds
7:18
to a specific receptor only in hepatocytes, liver cells that
7:22
target those cells. And then when you introduce that
7:24
medicine inside the liver cell, they act catalytically to
7:28
essentially reduce gene expression of the target gene
7:31
and therefore, you know, hopefully modify or cure a
7:34
disease. And that's been the hallmark of
7:37
of companies. And I thought the opportunity
7:38
here for Thalia is to be able to think about maybe dual acting or
7:43
bispecific sirnas targeting multiple targets, not only in
7:48
the liver, but also using Nuvac to be able to maybe load more or
7:52
load different ratios of these bispecific medicines.
7:56
And also think innovatively for the future about how we target
7:59
other cells and tissues, an area that is very interesting to the
8:04
markets and to, you know, other companies in the space.
8:07
So I thought we could essentially leapfrog hopefully
8:11
beyond the innovation that other people have built to A next
8:15
generation RNA therapeutics company and really a European
8:18
champion in the space. And so that was the aspiration.
8:22
It's the goal. And together with my board, it's
8:25
really the, the, the strategic moment where we find ourselves
8:29
today going forward. OK, amazing.
8:33
And so just talk us through to your lead program targets, both
8:37
PK, SK91 and LP, which is particularly interesting because
8:42
a lot of companies are targeting those pathways separately.
8:47
Just talk us through like, what makes your approach different
8:50
compared to some of the other key players that are out there
8:52
in the field? Yeah, I know.
8:54
I think that's an important differentiation.
8:56
So you know, there are already there are already siRNA gene
9:00
silencing medicines in the in, in, in exploratory clinical
9:06
trial mode against LP little A and against PCSK 9.
9:09
In fact, there's one for PCSK 9 that is already commercial
9:14
inclisiran with Alnylam. But the point of LP little A is
9:18
LP little A is a target inside the body that is determined at
9:23
birth. And it's it it.
9:25
It turns out that if you have high LP little A levels, you can
9:29
diet and exercise, you can become a marathon runner and LP
9:32
little A levels will not go down.
9:34
And if your LP Little A is extremely high, your risk of an
9:37
occlusive cardiovascular event like a heart attack or a stroke
9:43
can be multiple folds higher than the general population.
9:47
And it's already been well established through a range of
9:50
different experimental methodologies that lowering LP
9:53
little A reduces risk. So one company that's leading
9:56
the effort here, Novartis, a large pharmaceutical company, as
10:00
we know globally, is carrying out a phase three study called
10:03
Horizon, where they're using a gene silencing medicine against
10:08
LP Little A and they're actually counting events.
10:10
And they're trying to see does lowering LP Little A by say 95%
10:15
over the course of three months lower the number of events.
10:18
If that turns out to be true, that'll be sort of a halcyon
10:23
moment, if you will. For LP, Little A being an
10:26
important target, just like lowering LDL cholesterol through
10:30
statins is an important methodology that is achieved,
10:34
obviously global, global success.
10:36
So LPLA is a good target. Now, PCSK 9 is a target that
10:40
tends to rise owing behaviour. So if you're obese or need a
10:45
highly processed food diet or have other comorbidities like
10:48
type 2 diabetes, your PCSK 9 levels can be high.
10:52
And if you lower PCSK 9, your LDL cholesterol goes down.
10:57
Other people are doing the same approach with both srna, but
11:00
even other approaches. We just saw the terrific results
11:03
of Verve Therapeutics now owned by Lilly, published this this
11:08
week, this past week in the New England Journal of Medicine that
11:11
showed the gene editing lowering PCSK 9 can lower LDL
11:15
cholesterol. And I would argue that will
11:18
lower ultimately the risk. So we want to target both LP
11:22
Little A and PCSK 9. But our differentiation is
11:25
making the medicine that essentially can be introduced to
11:28
patients once every six months or once a year, because then you
11:31
can target both genetic risk and also behavioral risk with almost
11:36
assured compliance over a long period of time.
11:39
And my belief is that will lower cardiovascular risk of events in
11:44
global populations and I think be a very important and
11:47
innovative offering for the marketplace, for physicians, for
11:51
patients there and their and their families.
11:54
Yeah, exciting. And as you look ahead over the
11:57
next year 24 months, what are some of the next key milestones
12:01
or developments that that you and the team are most excited
12:03
about maybe on a on a clinical or you know regulatory funding
12:08
business development? Is there anything that you can
12:10
share on what you guys are are excited about coming up?
12:14
Well, as already disclosed either in other in other in
12:17
press releases or other publications or podcasts, what
12:20
we're focusing on in this period is actually using our dual
12:25
acting or our bispecific gene silencing medicine against LP
12:28
little A and PCSK 9 in both murine or mouse experiments and
12:31
also non human primate or monkey experiments to establish in fact
12:36
that the product will be safe and well tolerated and will have
12:39
a modicum of of efficacy. So those are experiments that
12:43
are are planned to be initiated this year in 2026.
12:46
And as you may know in the field, once you establish both
12:49
safety and tolerability in in non human primates in
12:52
Sonomagulus monkeys and you show that you can lower the target.
12:56
The FDA often will give companies or sponsors the
12:59
allowance to go into pivotal type studies in humans.
13:02
And so we believe by accelerating these activities in
13:05
animal experiments in 2026, we'll be on a fast track to
13:09
carrying out first, first human experiments.
13:13
And therefore, you know, really be able to see the benefits of
13:16
of this approach, not different than Verb did with their gene
13:19
editing approach against PCSK 9 and already Alnylam have done in
13:25
their gene, gene silencing srna medicines.
13:28
And so really this year is focused on essentially product
13:31
development, regulatory discussions, animal experiments
13:35
for both safety, tolerability and also efficacy and getting
13:39
ready for, you know, human clinical trials.
13:42
Exciting. So just the dynamic of the
13:45
company. So Thalia operates across
13:48
different locations across, I guess across the world.
13:52
How do you build a strong culture and keep teams aligned
13:55
when people are working across different countries and
13:58
different times? I just took us through, took us
14:00
through that and as well, the culture that you're trying to
14:02
build at Thalia as well. Sure, but so Thalia is listed on
14:07
London Stock Exchange on the AIM segment and is based in in the
14:12
United Kingdom. However, team members are are
14:16
are obviously working across different geographies.
14:19
And so ultimately, you know, we see the company in a very lean
14:23
and mean focused manner now to use the virtual methodology in
14:29
the first stages of development and then increase our footprint,
14:32
if you will later as we, you know, advance and then, you
14:36
know, can reasonably, you know, do that across different
14:40
geographies. But right now we're extremely
14:42
focused on getting ready for the clinic as CEO.
14:46
You know, one of the sort of, I think hallmarks of that I hope
14:50
works in my leadership role is essentially to, you know, bring
14:54
on high performing teams and colleagues that have experienced
14:57
in the field, working with a board that is extremely
15:00
experienced in both governance, corporate finance and the
15:03
applicable science that we're working on.
15:05
But ultimately, you know, I, I can't score many baskets.
15:08
It's really the team that does that.
15:10
So I'm much more like a basketball coach in, in, in, in
15:13
the leadership mode to essentially make sure they have
15:16
good uniforms and, uh, lots of money and good practice
15:19
facilities and the right culture to be able to, you know, advance
15:24
the company and score those baskets, if you'll, if you'll
15:26
mind the analogy. And so we have some very, very
15:29
fine members on our team that have terrific level of
15:33
experience in RNA therapeutics and in manufacturing these
15:36
products. And and going forward, I think
15:39
the team together with myself and the board will be able to,
15:44
you know, meet all of the milestones that we hope to
15:46
achieve in 26 and beyond and really grow the company for
15:50
shareholder value. The earlier asset mirrors the
15:53
earlier asset. Nuvac is extremely valuable in
15:57
so far as we can use it as a delivery system.
15:59
So the underpinnings of the company and for pharma, before
16:03
we change the name to Thalia, before we change the strategy is
16:06
still important. And the shareholders that
16:08
supported the company in the past, I'm grateful that they're
16:11
still here with us and we'll be able to hopefully enjoy the
16:15
journey going forward. But essentially now it's about
16:18
building an RNA therapeutics champion in Europe and globally
16:21
and advancing important medicines first in in
16:24
cardiovascular care, but also in other fields as well.
16:28
Yeah, amazing. You mentioned some of the key
16:31
players in RNA therapeutics previously, which is becoming an
16:35
increasing increasingly competitive space.
16:38
Just talk us through like what you genuinely believe
16:40
differentiates Stalia from other companies in the field.
16:43
You've you obviously know the RNA space pretty well.
16:46
What? What would you generally think
16:48
that differentiates the company from from others?
16:51
Well, I think that we understand not only the marketplace of RNA
16:55
therapeutics going forward, but we understand all the
16:57
technology. So that rather than making
17:00
similar approaches, we're actually advancing, you know
17:03
bispecific or dual acting medicines.
17:05
Our first example being the dual acting medicine against LPLA and
17:09
PCSK 9. And I think we're we're using
17:13
using NUVAC and perhaps other methodologies.
17:16
We also are thinking about targeting other cells and
17:19
tissues other than liver cells. And so I think all these things
17:22
will allow us to sort of leapfrog over where people have
17:25
been in the past five years to a new a new vision and a new
17:30
reality for RNA therapeutics companies that we hope are
17:34
valuable. And also we provide new and
17:37
important products for patients, their families and caregivers.
17:40
And obviously, there are lots of very fine companies out there,
17:42
companies like Al Nylum and and Arrowhead and Silence.
17:46
So our job is to be part of that ecosystem and really advance
17:49
this type of medicine in all of the diseases where there's a lot
17:53
of unmet need. And we think these medicines
17:55
will play an extremely important role.
17:58
Yeah. And you've been involved in RNA
18:02
therapeutics long before the current wave of excitement
18:05
around the sector. So you've sort of seen it in the
18:06
earlier days, I guess. Where do you think the industry
18:09
is still underestimated today? In in RNA?
18:14
Well, I, I think ultimately these medicines will be
18:18
mainstays in terms of both silencing genes that cause
18:21
disease and modifying gene expression that cause disease.
18:25
And therefore, you know, as a, as a, as a class of medicine, I
18:29
think both srna and micro RNA and also mRNA will be very, very
18:34
important and a growing, a growing modality.
18:38
So, you know, it's really learning the lessons of where
18:40
everyone's been. The real opportunity is that
18:43
there are so many more organs and, and tissues to target other
18:47
than just to parasites in the liver.
18:48
So it's really the, the, the beginning of the journey, if you
18:52
will, for this type of therapeutic.
18:54
And as soon as you know, we and others crack the knot of
18:58
addressing other cells and tissues and and new delivery
19:02
systems in addition to the therapeutics, I think that
19:05
there's an enormous number of diseases where there's unmet
19:09
need where you know, our, our medicines and the medicines of
19:12
other companies in the space will be able to provide
19:15
solutions. Amazing.
19:17
And this is a question that we would always finish with as well
19:20
on the podcast. But if you were to sit down and
19:22
have dinner with with any three people from past or present, who
19:26
would you go from? Why it it can literally be
19:29
anyone. It doesn't need to be someone
19:31
from the industry, although it could be if you like.
19:33
But yeah, three people you'd like to sit down and and have
19:36
dinner with. Ha, that's a tough question.
19:39
You're really, you're really putting me on the spot, Tom.
19:41
But, you know, thinking about that, I would say, you know,
19:46
inspiration comes often orthogonally from outside of,
19:50
you know, the field we're in. And it's also about, you know,
19:53
people's strength and discipline and perseverance across
19:57
different fields or disciplines that we can really learn from
20:00
and then apply to healthcare and specifically biotech and
20:03
specifically innovative medicines.
20:05
And so, you know, thinking about that, I would say there are
20:10
three people that I would love to talk to and learn from.
20:14
First would be perhaps someone who's not anything to do with
20:20
healthcare, but Sir Ernst Shackleton wasn't was an
20:24
Antarctic explorer. And hit the boat that he was
20:28
captain of called the Endurance. There was, I think, going to the
20:31
South Pole, the earlier part of the 20th century.
20:36
That boat got stuck in ice floes and ultimately couldn't move.
20:40
And he had to with his crew, essentially leave the boat and
20:45
walk something like 800 miles dragging, dragging a lifeboat
20:50
and then navigating over, you know, icy waters to some, you
20:55
know, sub polar ice station to get help and go back and rescue
21:01
the rest of the team. And he did that and nobody died.
21:05
And they all made it back to to England in one piece.
21:08
It was really a remarkable story.
21:10
And so I would love to understand how he developed such
21:13
perseverance and ability against all odds when, you know,
21:18
obviously falling over, dying, you know, was an obvious thing
21:24
that could have happened to to him and his crew.
21:27
So the perseverance of of Shackleton and his and his crew
21:32
would be something I'd really like to learn from.
21:35
In the realm of science, Marie Curie, one of the pioneering
21:40
women scientists of her day in France, but with global impact.
21:45
She won the Nobel Prize twice. And I'd love to learn how as a
21:49
woman, she worked, you know, against the grain in two
21:54
different fields, medicine and physics, to make sort of key
21:58
discoveries that were awarded with science's highest prize.
22:03
And what was her level of discipline and belief and
22:06
thoughts about innovation? I'm sure that there's lots to be
22:09
learned from, you know, her approach that was unique in the
22:13
day and still today almost unparalleled.
22:16
And finally in our in our space, Henry Tremere was the founding
22:20
CEO of a very fine company called Genzyme, since bought by
22:24
Sanofi for something like 30 billion some years ago.
22:27
But Henry Tremere believed in rare disease and I think he did
22:31
something like 30 deals to add small assets and small companies
22:36
to Genzyme over time to build a powerhouse in lysosomal storage
22:41
diseases. Rare diseases where children are
22:43
born normal and then at six months they look like they have
22:46
a deficit. And, you know, at age 1, they
22:50
never walk. And at age 2 or 3, they're dead.
22:53
And he was able to figure out, you know, how to use gene
22:57
therapy or replacement, replacement therapy of enzymes
23:01
to treat these children and make them live normal, healthy lives
23:04
and make a very valuable company.
23:06
And really was a revolutionary in rare diseases, which is a
23:09
mainstay of our approach to get medicines approved today.
23:13
Sadly, Henry Tremerer is no longer with us, but I'd love to
23:15
sit down with him and learn about how he built a company
23:20
based on so many transactions that ultimately generated not
23:23
only huge shareholder value, but but some of the best medicines
23:28
to treat very difficult diseases in, in vulnerable people, small
23:31
children. So I would say those would be
23:33
the three people I'd love to dine with.
23:35
Yeah, amazing. Well, look, David, thanks so
23:38
much for coming on and helping us out with this.
23:39
It sounds super exciting the new direction of of Dalia
23:43
Therapeutics now. So I'm excited to see the next
23:46
milestones and inflection points that I'm sure we'll see over
23:50
over the next few months and and year or so.
23:52
So look, it was a pleasure to to have you on.
23:54
Thanks again. And.
23:55
Thanks so much for having me, I really enjoyed our conversation.