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#HURDLEMOMENT: How to Figure Out Your Perfect Running Pace · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: Everybody has their own pace. The beauty of running, to
0:04
Speaker 1: me is that you are on this journey to just
0:07
Speaker 1: get better, and it should be for yourself. It shouldn't
0:10
Speaker 1: be to keep up with anybody, it shouldn't be to
0:12
Speaker 1: beat anybody. It should just be this constant pursuit of
0:17
Speaker 1: getting better and hopefully enjoying the process as well.
0:35
Speaker 2: Hay Hurdler's only a body popping in with another installment
0:38
Speaker 2: of Hurdle Moment from Hardle this week, I am bringing
0:42
Speaker 2: something that has been on my mind to the feed.
0:45
Speaker 2: We're talking all about pacing. I myself without real races
0:49
Speaker 2: on the calendar, have been trying to pick things up,
0:53
Speaker 2: pick up the speed and have some fun, trying to
0:56
Speaker 2: break my own times. And so recently I race with
0:59
Speaker 2: a five and a half marathon and I am excited
1:03
Speaker 2: to see what I can do and on my quest
1:06
Speaker 2: for speed, I had a lot of questions and that
1:10
Speaker 2: is where today's special guest coach, Sam Tooley comes into
1:14
Speaker 2: the mix. Sam is an online endurance and mindset coach.
1:18
Speaker 2: He's also the owner of Alpha Gym's in New Jersey
1:21
Speaker 2: and he's a dear friend of mine, one that's got
1:23
Speaker 2: a ton of intel to answer all of the questions.
1:27
Speaker 2: In today's episode, we'll talk about how to figure out
1:29
Speaker 2: what your goal pace should be, how often you should
1:32
Speaker 2: actually be running at that pace a spoiler alert it's
1:35
Speaker 2: not very often at all, what a typical week of
1:38
Speaker 2: training might look like, and the ever popular question, how
1:42
Speaker 2: do I get faster? Sam's been a huge resource for
1:46
Speaker 2: me and I'm so excited to have him dispel his
1:50
Speaker 2: great attitude and wisdom on all of you. As always,
1:55
Speaker 2: if you like what you're listening to, feel free to
1:57
Speaker 2: tag me over on social at Hurdle Podcast and Emily
2:00
Speaker 2: a Body. If you have a hurdle moment of your
2:02
Speaker 2: own to share or just want to say hi, reach
2:04
Speaker 2: out to me over email. It's Emily at hurdle dot us.
2:07
Speaker 2: If you haven't yet subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter
2:11
Speaker 2: to link to do that is in the show notes.
2:14
Speaker 2: And last, but not least, if you have yet to
2:16
Speaker 2: rate the show in the iTunes store I'm pulling for this.
2:19
Speaker 2: We have six days left in August. Please head on
2:22
Speaker 2: in there, rate review the show and help me get
2:25
Speaker 2: to that thousand reviews and ratings goal. I know we
2:29
Speaker 2: can do it, and with that it's time to pick
2:31
Speaker 2: up the pace. Let's get to hurdling. Today. I'm sitting
2:40
Speaker 2: down with Sam Tooley. He's an online endurance and mindset coach.
2:45
Speaker 2: He's also the owner of a few gyms in New Jersey,
2:49
Speaker 2: Alpha Gyms. Sam, what's up, what's happening.
2:53
Speaker 1: Happy to be here with you.
2:54
Speaker 2: I have been dealing with something, and that's why we're
2:57
Speaker 2: sitting down today.
2:59
Speaker 1: I think we're all dealing with something right now. But yeah,
3:03
Speaker 1: this is definitely in line with what's going on for
3:05
Speaker 1: a lot of people.
3:06
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with something, so I mean I'm dealing with
3:09
Speaker 2: many things, but the thing that we're talking about today
3:13
Speaker 2: is pacing. So, like many people, I have been reevaluating
3:19
Speaker 2: my goals and adjusting now that racing is in a
3:25
Speaker 2: different light than it once was, and my personal goals
3:30
Speaker 2: have just been circulating around this idea of getting faster,
3:34
Speaker 2: making my own finish lines, and racing different distances, so
3:38
Speaker 2: like the mile, the five k, the ten k, the
3:42
Speaker 2: half marathon. I don't know if I have a virtual
3:44
Speaker 2: marathon in me. Basically, I'm just thinking about pace lately,
3:49
Speaker 2: and so today we're going to chat about pace.
3:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of people are dealing with
3:55
Speaker 1: the fact that there's no I guess you could say,
3:57
Speaker 1: legitimate race on the calendar and push themselves to kind
4:01
Speaker 1: of just push is a challenge in itself. So it's
4:05
Speaker 1: it's a tough task on hand, and I think a
4:07
Speaker 1: lot of people are kind of left with that question
4:10
Speaker 1: mark about what to do next and just how to
4:13
Speaker 1: attack it. So again, you're not alone, and I'm right
4:16
Speaker 1: there with you.
4:18
Speaker 2: So before I start to ask you all of the
4:20
Speaker 2: pacing questions, give me a little insight into your background
4:25
Speaker 2: and talk to me about the kind of athletes that
4:27
Speaker 2: you're working with on the regular. Yeah.
4:29
Speaker 1: So I kind of stumbled upon running. And there's two
4:33
Speaker 1: there's two paths of this story, and I'll keep them short.
4:36
Speaker 1: But basically, I played every sport under the sun growing up,
4:39
Speaker 1: and the only reason that I was even remotely good
4:42
Speaker 1: at them was because I was fast. And the story
4:46
Speaker 1: as to how I got looped into running on the
4:48
Speaker 1: track team in high school was my buddy stole my
4:51
Speaker 1: bike and I chased him down on foot and threw
4:54
Speaker 1: him off the bike, and his older brother, who I
4:56
Speaker 1: thought was going to come over and beat the crap
4:59
Speaker 1: out of me, just was like eyeballs out of his
5:01
Speaker 1: skull and he's like, yo, He's like, you are coming
5:03
Speaker 1: out for the track team, And that is literally how
5:07
Speaker 1: I got started, and fortunately it just clicked and it
5:10
Speaker 1: was like it was explained to me super simply. It said,
5:13
Speaker 1: you know, running is fair and what you put into
5:16
Speaker 1: it is what you're going to get out of it,
5:17
Speaker 1: and so kind of just put my head down and
5:20
Speaker 1: got to work, and it was the first sport where
5:22
Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, if you really work your ass off,
5:25
Speaker 1: you're going to get better at this. And it clicked
5:27
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Went on to be a multiple times state
5:31
Speaker 1: champion in New Jersey, school record holder and eventually ran
5:35
Speaker 1: a very short stint at the Division one level before
5:39
Speaker 1: my priorities kind of shifted and as I got back
5:43
Speaker 1: into it, I've been fortunate enough to coach at my
5:47
Speaker 1: high school, be the youngest head coach in the state
5:50
Speaker 1: of New Jersey, and then use social media, specifically Instagram
5:55
Speaker 1: to really grow a pretty substantial following and centered around
6:00
Speaker 1: durance training in my own kind of pursuits and so
6:03
Speaker 1: I'm coaching everybody from first time five k athletes to
6:07
Speaker 1: Olympic trial qualifiers in the marathon and you know iron
6:12
Speaker 1: man and durance athletes, so you name it. I'm interested
6:15
Speaker 1: if somebody's got a big goal, it's that's what I
6:17
Speaker 1: want to be involved with. I want to lock in
6:20
Speaker 1: with people who aren't just striving to kind of just
6:24
Speaker 1: get out and get active, and there's nothing wrong with that,
6:26
Speaker 1: but I want to lock in with somebody who almost
6:30
Speaker 1: has a goal they're scared to admit they have.
6:33
Speaker 2: I those are my favorite kind of goals. I always
6:35
Speaker 2: reference this conversation I had with Liz Plosser. She's the
6:39
Speaker 2: editor in chief at Woman's Health magazine now, but we
6:41
Speaker 2: met back when we were both at self and we
6:44
Speaker 2: always joked that there are three goals. There's the goal
6:48
Speaker 2: you talk about like with all of your friends. Then
6:50
Speaker 2: there's the goal that like you're a little scared of
6:53
Speaker 2: that you might like talk to a couple people about.
6:56
Speaker 2: And then there's the final goal, which is like the
6:58
Speaker 2: goal in the back of your mind, which you're scared
7:00
Speaker 2: to admit that totally exists, but like verbalizing it scares
7:04
Speaker 2: the hell out of.
7:05
Speaker 1: You one hundred percent. And then listen, we I think
7:08
Speaker 1: that's that's everybody has that. And for example, I have
7:12
Speaker 1: my little journal sitting next to me. That'll kind of
7:15
Speaker 1: blot out on Instagram in the morning. But that's that's
7:18
Speaker 1: where those big scary goals go. And eventually, I think
7:21
Speaker 1: you just write something down enough that you work up
7:24
Speaker 1: the courage and you're like, all right, this is real.
7:27
Speaker 1: I need to do something about it. It's more than
7:29
Speaker 1: just like an itch, and it becomes like this nagging
7:32
Speaker 1: thing that finally you just kind of you jump at
7:35
Speaker 1: it and it happens, right, or at least you go
7:37
Speaker 1: after it.
7:38
Speaker 2: I dig it. So let's talk about pacing. I think
7:43
Speaker 2: first and foremost. Talk to me about how you figure
7:46
Speaker 2: out what a good goal pace is for you. Where
7:48
Speaker 2: does that start?
7:50
Speaker 1: It's kind of almost like you're reverse engineering it. So
7:53
Speaker 1: for me, I work with probably seventy five to one
7:56
Speaker 1: hundred and durance athletes all over the world, right, many
7:59
Speaker 1: of which I never meet, right, I never get to
8:02
Speaker 1: actually see. It's one thing to step onto a track
8:04
Speaker 1: and observe someone run and put them through some sort
8:08
Speaker 1: of workout. At the end of the day, we need
8:10
Speaker 1: to know where you're starting, and so typically I have
8:13
Speaker 1: athletes go for an all out effort, like a time
8:16
Speaker 1: trial of some distance. Right, It doesn't need to be
8:19
Speaker 1: the distance of the race that they're going to run,
8:21
Speaker 1: but we need to know what the starting point is,
8:24
Speaker 1: where they're at and kind of use that data to
8:27
Speaker 1: then set a realistic goal dependent upon you know, where
8:32
Speaker 1: they stand now.
8:33
Speaker 2: So when you say a time trial, could that be
8:36
Speaker 2: for say a mile distance totally.
8:39
Speaker 1: So let's say someone wants to run a half marathon
8:43
Speaker 1: or a five k or whatever. We can have them
8:46
Speaker 1: run an all out mile, right which is much more manageable.
8:50
Speaker 1: You know, it fits into everybody's schedule. There's very little
8:52
Speaker 1: prep that needs to go into it, and they could
8:55
Speaker 1: know they might not even be able to finish a
8:57
Speaker 1: half marathon right now, right, So we'll have them run
9:00
Speaker 1: and all out mile and just use that as a
9:03
Speaker 1: metric for pacing on other workouts and goal raise down
9:07
Speaker 1: the road.
9:08
Speaker 2: So the question that I get a lot then is
9:11
Speaker 2: obviously that all out mile is such a different effort
9:16
Speaker 2: than what might go in to a half marathon. So
9:19
Speaker 2: then how does that all out mile pace translate to
9:24
Speaker 2: your half marathon or your five k pace?
9:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's you know, there's little equations, there's little this,
9:30
Speaker 1: that and the other thing that kind of go into
9:32
Speaker 1: it at the end of the day. Something that I
9:34
Speaker 1: try to do is help people understand what certain efforts
9:38
Speaker 1: should feel like. And I know that's almost an annoying
9:41
Speaker 1: answer to get and at the end of the day, though,
9:45
Speaker 1: it really understanding how the effort should feel versus needing
9:51
Speaker 1: to stare down at the watch. I think a lot
9:52
Speaker 1: of people get trapped into this loophole of like, we
9:56
Speaker 1: have every piece of technology under the sun now right
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Speaker 1: to eight us in our pacing, our heart rate or this,
10:02
Speaker 1: and are that. When I was back in high school,
10:04
Speaker 1: I had a very militant coach, very old school who
10:08
Speaker 1: refused to even really let us wear watches. He was
10:11
Speaker 1: just like he would just prescribe the workout, tell us
10:14
Speaker 1: how we were supposed to feel during it, and kind
10:17
Speaker 1: of let our gut and our competitiveness take over from there.
10:20
Speaker 1: And so a lot of what I try to give
10:23
Speaker 1: people is almost like a scale, like how I want
10:26
Speaker 1: them to feel as they as they run and go
10:29
Speaker 1: from there, rather than being so locked into a certain
10:33
Speaker 1: pace because certain days are just going to feel different, right,
10:36
Speaker 1: And eight out of ten if that's the goal, If
10:38
Speaker 1: I want you to run at an eight out of
10:39
Speaker 1: ten effort, if you ran fifteen miles the day before
10:44
Speaker 1: the next day, an eight out of ten is going
10:45
Speaker 1: to feel very different, right versus if you're coming off
10:48
Speaker 1: a rest day. So a lot of times, especially for
10:51
Speaker 1: newbie runners, I want to help them understand what they're
10:54
Speaker 1: supposed to feel like as they're running certain workouts and
10:57
Speaker 1: things like that, and then go from there. And as
10:59
Speaker 1: we get closer and as we put in more work,
11:02
Speaker 1: you're going to have more data to kind of put
11:05
Speaker 1: together a race plan and race pace and all of that.
11:08
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give like an estimation of a
11:12
Speaker 2: rate of perceived exertion RPE four mile down to marathon.
11:17
Speaker 2: So in my experience, the mile should literally feel like
11:21
Speaker 2: ninety ninety five percent. Like you finish that mile and
11:24
Speaker 2: you're like, wow, breathing is a very hard thing to
11:26
Speaker 2: do in life. Then you get to the five k
11:30
Speaker 2: and you're like eighty five ninety percent. Then you get
11:34
Speaker 2: to the ten k and you're like eighty eighty five percent.
11:38
Speaker 2: Half marathon seventy eighty percent, and marathon sixty seventy percent
11:43
Speaker 2: for sure.
11:44
Speaker 1: And that's that's the hard part, right where it gets
11:46
Speaker 1: tricky because the first mile of a half marathon. If
11:49
Speaker 1: you're going the appropriate race, pace should almost feel manageable, right,
11:54
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, I actually feel kind of good
11:57
Speaker 1: at this pace. But if you sustain that pace for
11:59
Speaker 1: the duration of the thirteen than that last three, you're like,
12:03
Speaker 1: holy crap, I got to keep fighting to get this.
12:06
Speaker 1: So it's definitely a tricky you know, and that's why
12:08
Speaker 1: we're talking about it. Right, It's definitely a challenge for
12:11
Speaker 1: most people. But as you put in work and as
12:14
Speaker 1: you start to do more workouts that will give you
12:17
Speaker 1: an indication of where you're supposed to be, it's going
12:20
Speaker 1: to become second nature. And I've been listen, I've been
12:23
Speaker 1: running since I was fourteen years old, right, I'm about
12:26
Speaker 1: to be twenty eight, So it's almost ingrained in my
12:29
Speaker 1: body at this point. And so for newbie runners and
12:32
Speaker 1: for people who are just getting into it, understand that
12:35
Speaker 1: it takes time and it takes kind of this conscious
12:37
Speaker 1: awareness to really focus and be able to do that.
12:41
Speaker 1: But there, you know, and there's always other ways about
12:45
Speaker 1: figuring out those paces and where you should be. And
12:47
Speaker 1: I think doing that time trial will set you up
12:50
Speaker 1: to really have a better understanding of where you need
12:53
Speaker 1: to be to build certain aspects of your fitness.
13:04
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Speaker 2: at checkout for twenty percent off today. Say that I
14:42
Speaker 2: figure out that my fastest mile pace is somewhere around
14:45
Speaker 2: a seven minute mile. With that intel, how often would
14:51
Speaker 2: someone actually be running at their goal pace? For sure?
14:56
Speaker 1: So it depends on the race that they're training for, right,
14:59
Speaker 1: So if you're I need to get faster at the mile,
15:02
Speaker 1: my recommendation is typically to at least touch mile pace,
15:06
Speaker 1: like make the purpose of a workout to run at
15:09
Speaker 1: mile pace or faster once a week. The rule of
15:12
Speaker 1: thumb is typically like you want to be only touching
15:16
Speaker 1: quality work twenty percent of the time. Twenty percent of
15:20
Speaker 1: your weekly mileage should be quality. The rest should just
15:23
Speaker 1: be easy volume to really just build your aerobic base, right,
15:27
Speaker 1: build your time on your legs and whatnot. Too many
15:30
Speaker 1: times I think we find that runners are going too
15:33
Speaker 1: hard on easy days and too easy on hard days,
15:37
Speaker 1: and so it really it does depend on the race
15:40
Speaker 1: and the distance that you're training for. But a good
15:42
Speaker 1: rule of thumb in terms of running, quality workouts and
15:46
Speaker 1: things of that nature is that it should be about
15:48
Speaker 1: twenty percent of your overall training volume for the week.
15:52
Speaker 2: Quality is such an interesting word because I feel like,
15:55
Speaker 2: I mean, arguably, couldn't you have a quality run that
15:58
Speaker 2: isn't you hitting a pr.
16:00
Speaker 1: Are for sure? And so I think the word quality
16:04
Speaker 1: could be misleading. It's just more so in my mind,
16:07
Speaker 1: what I make quality out to be is just that
16:09
Speaker 1: goal pace right or very high end work where it's
16:13
Speaker 1: taxing and you need to recover from it, versus a
16:16
Speaker 1: run where you can kind of just go out and
16:19
Speaker 1: throw pace out the window and just run easy, and
16:23
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, maybe enjoy it a bit more.
16:25
Speaker 1: Some of us, I think are twisted, and we love
16:27
Speaker 1: the hard work, the hard track work and tempos and
16:31
Speaker 1: the grueling long run and all that stuff, But more
16:34
Speaker 1: often than not, I think we want to save that
16:37
Speaker 1: real intense effort for just a much smaller window of
16:41
Speaker 1: time than a lot of people are allocating into their
16:44
Speaker 1: weekly schedule.
16:45
Speaker 2: What would you say to someone who has a good
16:49
Speaker 2: idea of what their goal pace is and is going
16:51
Speaker 2: through just this slump where it feels literally impossible to
16:57
Speaker 2: get anywhere near that. I mean, we're in the middle
16:59
Speaker 2: of summer right now, it is heavy out there. And
17:02
Speaker 2: this is a question that I get a lot of
17:05
Speaker 2: from the hurdlers. For sure.
17:07
Speaker 1: I think there's two different approaches to it, and I
17:10
Speaker 1: think both are valid, and only only you is going
17:14
Speaker 1: to know what the right answer is. And so there's
17:16
Speaker 1: two things that I typically do when I'm in a rut.
17:18
Speaker 1: First and foremost, sometimes a little bit of time off
17:23
Speaker 1: is the best thing that you can do for yourself,
17:25
Speaker 1: because I think more times than not, when I come
17:28
Speaker 1: back from a period of taking off one, I miss
17:32
Speaker 1: running and I start to appreciate it, and I start
17:34
Speaker 1: to crave it. Like if you're a runner, you know
17:37
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about, in the sense that, like
17:39
Speaker 1: you just will get the itch to get back out there.
17:41
Speaker 1: Sometimes you actually have to fight yourself to not run,
17:44
Speaker 1: and so that's sometimes taking a step back and just
17:47
Speaker 1: taking some time off is great. The other end of
17:50
Speaker 1: that spectrum is to just leave that structured training plan
17:54
Speaker 1: at home and just wake up and do what you
17:57
Speaker 1: feel like doing. I think so many times we get
18:00
Speaker 1: duck into needing to check the box, needing to do
18:03
Speaker 1: this run that run, and it becomes a chore. And
18:06
Speaker 1: I took six years off of running because I was
18:10
Speaker 1: so burnt out from being being as competitive and as
18:13
Speaker 1: locked in as I could possibly be that I didn't
18:17
Speaker 1: get that itch for a very long time. But I
18:19
Speaker 1: think when I came back, I made the mistake of
18:22
Speaker 1: just feeling like I needed to do everything so cookie
18:24
Speaker 1: cutter and exact that it became a chore very quickly again.
18:28
Speaker 1: And sometimes you just got to go out and do
18:30
Speaker 1: what you feel like doing, whether that's hill sprints and
18:34
Speaker 1: just leaving the watch at home and just literally literally
18:37
Speaker 1: finding a massive hill and saying, yo, I'm just going
18:39
Speaker 1: to rip this thing, or just putting on a podcast,
18:43
Speaker 1: putting on some music and just jamming out and say like, yo,
18:45
Speaker 1: I'm just going to run until I don't feel like
18:47
Speaker 1: it anymore. So I think getting locked into those pacing
18:51
Speaker 1: and you know, especially when we're struggling with it, is
18:55
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes a tall tale sign that we need
18:57
Speaker 1: to take a different direction or just or just take
19:00
Speaker 1: a brief break from our really dialed in training plan.
19:06
Speaker 2: For someone that has been running a similar pace for
19:10
Speaker 2: a really long time and struggling to get to that
19:13
Speaker 2: next big win. What would you say to them?
19:18
Speaker 1: It's a good question because I've been there plenty of
19:20
Speaker 1: times where I feel like I just keep hitting the
19:22
Speaker 1: same time the same time. A lot of times, I
19:25
Speaker 1: think runners and people in general, you can take this
19:29
Speaker 1: outside of running, to be honest with you, but people
19:32
Speaker 1: feel like more is always better, right, And sometimes I
19:36
Speaker 1: think we need to take a step back and just
19:38
Speaker 1: says what has worked right, what has pushed the envelope forward,
19:42
Speaker 1: what has gotten me faster, and just go back to
19:45
Speaker 1: kind of the bare bone basics and touch on that
19:48
Speaker 1: because a lot of times I think we see all
19:51
Speaker 1: these big time runners logging crazy miles and doing these
19:55
Speaker 1: insane workouts, and sometimes what works for somebody else doesn't
19:59
Speaker 1: work for you. And I think once you recognize what
20:02
Speaker 1: does work, it's just like a running shoe, right, people
20:04
Speaker 1: are always looking for a different shoe to try this,
20:07
Speaker 1: that and the other thing. If something works, man, just
20:09
Speaker 1: doubled down on it and rock with it. And if
20:12
Speaker 1: it doesn't work right, if it's not getting you where
20:14
Speaker 1: you want to go, then it's time to pivot, you know,
20:17
Speaker 1: and get Sometimes we can just get stuck in our ways.
20:20
Speaker 2: I also think that there are things that runners may
20:24
Speaker 2: be resistant to that can make a major difference that
20:27
Speaker 2: don't involve the physical act of running, whether that's recovery
20:32
Speaker 2: or strength work. Again, we see so many people on
20:35
Speaker 2: the ground just like killing these crazy running workouts, but
20:39
Speaker 2: what you might not be seeing all the time is
20:42
Speaker 2: how they are doing all the other important things that
20:45
Speaker 2: can in turn make them better runners completely.
20:48
Speaker 1: And I think for me, something that when I took
20:51
Speaker 1: those six years off of running, something that I doubled
20:54
Speaker 1: down on and started to really become passionate about was
20:57
Speaker 1: that strength work and was the other disciplines that can
21:02
Speaker 1: make you a better runner in general. And I think
21:05
Speaker 1: that goes hand in hand with the sleep, the nutrition,
21:08
Speaker 1: the hydration. Like you're only let's say you're only running
21:11
Speaker 1: one hour a day, what you do in the other
21:14
Speaker 1: twenty three hours of that day matters dramatically more than
21:18
Speaker 1: just the run work. And so I think that you
21:21
Speaker 1: have to look at it full spectrum, and if you
21:23
Speaker 1: know you've been avoiding something like the strength work, then
21:27
Speaker 1: it's time to probably dip your toe in the water
21:28
Speaker 1: and say like, okay, I've done everything that I know
21:31
Speaker 1: in terms of the running. What other avenues. Can I
21:35
Speaker 1: go down to maybe expedate this process to really, you know,
21:38
Speaker 1: my end goal of running faster.
21:40
Speaker 2: Going to bring this back full circle to my personal
21:42
Speaker 2: pacing journey, I right now feel as though I have
21:49
Speaker 2: extra left in the tank when it comes to the
21:52
Speaker 2: five k and even maybe the ten k. I'm going out.
21:56
Speaker 2: I'm running similar pieces for both of them, which is
21:59
Speaker 2: a clear indication that I have more in the tank
22:01
Speaker 2: for at least the five k. So then my question
22:04
Speaker 2: for you is, like, how does someone get to that
22:09
Speaker 2: point where they dig deeper? I'm curious to know, like,
22:12
Speaker 2: what are your a mocks for that?
22:14
Speaker 1: So I think in terms of the training, I actually
22:18
Speaker 1: like to hit it from both ends of the spectrum
22:21
Speaker 1: and I will almost disregard the race that I'm training for.
22:25
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is you said you
22:27
Speaker 1: want to improve at the five k ten k, So
22:29
Speaker 1: I'll do a lot of speed work at mile pace
22:33
Speaker 1: to really just get the wheels turn and get turnover
22:36
Speaker 1: to feel explosive and powerful, and that's that's what I
22:39
Speaker 1: want to feel when I step to the line of
22:41
Speaker 1: any race. But I'll book d that with legitimate half
22:46
Speaker 1: marathon work and nice long runs. So that I'm building
22:50
Speaker 1: the engine to be able to really sustain those paces,
22:55
Speaker 1: and then I'm also building the turnover and the speed
22:57
Speaker 1: so that once I start touching five k pace and
23:00
Speaker 1: ten k pace, it almost feels like a jog. You've
23:03
Speaker 1: been ripping mile repeats, you've been doing shorter track work,
23:06
Speaker 1: and then you go out to run this five k
23:08
Speaker 1: and you're like, yo, this is not this is not
23:10
Speaker 1: that hard of a pace, and you're building that aerobic
23:14
Speaker 1: engine from the longer work to kind of just it
23:17
Speaker 1: blends together nicely. So from a training perspective, that's one thing.
23:22
Speaker 1: And then in terms of needing to dig deep, there
23:26
Speaker 1: is a question that I've asked myself literally since I
23:29
Speaker 1: was that fourteen year old kid, and it's just the
23:32
Speaker 1: mantra that runs through my head, like long distance running
23:34
Speaker 1: was not something that came naturally to me. I just
23:37
Speaker 1: I just worked at it. And so the question that
23:40
Speaker 1: I would kind of grit between my teeth and ask myself,
23:43
Speaker 1: probably way too loud in the middle of races, was
23:47
Speaker 1: how bad do you want it? And I know it's cliche,
23:50
Speaker 1: I know it's cheesy, but it just it's been something
23:53
Speaker 1: that that question is such a truth seeker. If you
23:57
Speaker 1: don't have the right answer to that question, then or
24:00
Speaker 1: the race probably ain't going to go the way that
24:02
Speaker 1: you want it, you know, And the run running, there's
24:05
Speaker 1: so much time to talk yourself out of pushing that
24:09
Speaker 1: you need a really good answer to that question. And
24:12
Speaker 1: if you want it badly enough, then you're just going
24:14
Speaker 1: to keep digging, keep digging. But I have to almost
24:16
Speaker 1: continuously remind myself during the race of that question so
24:21
Speaker 1: that I keep pressing, because it's very easy to lose
24:24
Speaker 1: focus and lose kind of that tenacity as you run.
24:29
Speaker 2: So then the cherry on top of our pacing convo
24:31
Speaker 2: today for those that are struggling to really home in
24:36
Speaker 2: on their potential, because again, races are just different than
24:42
Speaker 2: they used to be. It's looking different than it used
24:44
Speaker 2: to be. What is it that you tell them to
24:47
Speaker 2: help them stay going during this time?
24:52
Speaker 1: What I've been preaching to my clients is that no
24:56
Speaker 1: run is wasted. Every single run, whether it goes as
25:00
Speaker 1: well as they wanted it to, no run is wasted effort.
25:03
Speaker 1: You're getting better whether the run goes well or not.
25:06
Speaker 1: You're practicing that mental toughness right now. What they're practicing
25:10
Speaker 1: is mental resilience in the sense that they are training hard.
25:14
Speaker 1: They absolutely are putting in legitimate and real work as
25:17
Speaker 1: if there's a race on the calendar, and there really
25:20
Speaker 1: isn't you know. We're putting together virtual races. We're doing X,
25:24
Speaker 1: Y and Z, we're testing the waters to see where
25:27
Speaker 1: they're at. But until you toe the line with other
25:30
Speaker 1: bodies around you and you have that real race day excitement,
25:34
Speaker 1: what you're building right now, just as much as your
25:36
Speaker 1: fitness is that mental resilience that's going to pay off
25:40
Speaker 1: tenfold once you get around other people on the starting
25:44
Speaker 1: line and then the real work happens.
25:47
Speaker 2: Any suggestion for those people that might be for the
25:51
Speaker 2: first time trying to figure out what pieces are the
25:55
Speaker 2: right pieces for them.
25:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of the day, every body has
26:01
Speaker 1: their own pace. The beauty of running, to me is
26:04
Speaker 1: that you are on this journey to just get better,
26:07
Speaker 1: and it should be for yourself. It shouldn't be to
26:10
Speaker 1: keep up with anybody, it shouldn't be to beat anybody.
26:13
Speaker 1: It should just be this constant pursuit of getting better
26:17
Speaker 1: and hopefully enjoying the process as well.
26:21
Speaker 2: Beautiful, I dig it, I dig you.
26:23
Speaker 1: Those faster five k's are coming.
26:25
Speaker 2: They're coming. I know. I text you after every single
26:27
Speaker 2: one and I'm like, we're doing so good, but it's
26:30
Speaker 2: not good enough. So how I feel? So I feel
26:33
Speaker 2: it's coming. It's coming. Thank you so much, Sam. How
26:36
Speaker 2: do they keep up with you? Give me the details?
26:40
Speaker 1: Super simple. I basically post my entire life on the
26:44
Speaker 1: IG and I'm at coach dot Sam Tooley and from
26:47
Speaker 1: there you'll find the gyms and all that good stuff.
26:50
Speaker 1: So just find me on Instagram at coach dot Sam
26:53
Speaker 1: Tooley and we'll dice it up from there.
26:55
Speaker 2: You know that you're about to have the DMS. So
26:59
Speaker 2: the question, and before I even allow them to get
27:03
Speaker 2: over there, are you currently accepting running clients without question?
27:08
Speaker 1: We're We're always welcoming in people. The only prerequisite is
27:12
Speaker 1: that they are ready to do the work.
27:14
Speaker 2: I'm always ready to do the work. I am at
27:17
Speaker 2: Emily A Baddi at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered. Catch
27:21
Speaker 2: you guys next time.