Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / What “family discipleship” Really Means—and Why It’s Often Overcomplicated with Adam Griffin

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What “family discipleship” Really Means—and Why It’s Often Overcomplicated with Adam Griffin · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: Hey Adam, welcome across walk Talk. Thanks for joining me. Hey,
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  Speaker 2: thank you so much for having me Michael Adam. Of course,
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  Speaker 2: you are a lead pastor of east Side Community Church
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  Speaker 2: in Dallas, an author and a podcaster, and you are
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  Speaker 2: the author of a new children's book. I really enjoyed
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  Speaker 2: looking at this What will You Teach Me? It's published
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  Speaker 2: by BNH.
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  Speaker 1: Really unique book. I'm going to let you tell folks.
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  Speaker 2: About it, what inspired you to write it, and maybe
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  Speaker 2: what hold does it fit?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah in the market, Well, yeah, there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: kids books out there, that's for sure, and certainly a
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  Speaker 3: lot of people equipping families to tell their kids about
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  Speaker 3: Jesus or to disciple their families. That's where we spend
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  Speaker 3: a lot of our time on our podcast and on
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  Speaker 3: our writing. But what felt like in a lot of
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  Speaker 3: kids books was lacking. Or you'll have a book that
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  Speaker 3: tells kids about Jesus, and you'll have another book that
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  Speaker 3: teaches kids their colors. You'll have a book that teachers
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  Speaker 3: kids their letters, you have a book that's just silly.
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  Speaker 3: You have all kinds of different kinds of kids books.
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  Speaker 3: But what was missing in my mind is a book
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  Speaker 3: that showed all these things you're teaching your very little
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  Speaker 3: kids about their numbers, their colors, music, food, all these
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  Speaker 3: kind of basic things you'd learn in a kid's book.
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  Speaker 3: They all point us back to Jesus. They actually teach
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  Speaker 3: us something about God. They actually show us that God
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  Speaker 3: is the one who designed math. God is the one
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  Speaker 3: who gave us language. God is the one who gave
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  Speaker 3: us science and discovery and music, and he left us
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  Speaker 3: with things to read.
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  Speaker 1: And so a kid's book, hopefully where.
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  Speaker 3: There's kids who are delighted by all the illustrations and
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  Speaker 3: the questions and the animals, but also are learning from
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  Speaker 3: their parents the most important lesson that comes alongside every
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  Speaker 3: lesson that saw our science lessons teach us about how
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  Speaker 3: are God created, how he feels about us, and our
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  Speaker 3: math lessons that teach us how God is orderly and
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  Speaker 3: organized and he measures things and he has made us measured.
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  Speaker 3: And so that's the idea, is that it's a delight
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  Speaker 3: of a kid's book that does everything a normal kid's
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  Speaker 3: book would do, but.
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  Speaker 1: Combines a lot of those genres together.
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  Speaker 2: Save me the target audience for fearing who are curious
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  Speaker 2: what age is this for?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the other thing.
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  Speaker 3: So my wife and I ministry, we've made middle grade
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  Speaker 3: Bible studies. We've made a kid's book for young readers.
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  Speaker 3: This is our youngest attempt. So this is for kids
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  Speaker 3: from babies to four years old. So it's kids that
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  Speaker 3: are just learning how to read, just learning their colors,
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  Speaker 3: just learning how to doodle.
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  Speaker 1: And there's a lot going on in every page.
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  Speaker 3: With the idea that these kids are going to look
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  Speaker 3: at this book over and over again.
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  Speaker 1: That's why it's a bored book, you know.
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  Speaker 3: So the pages are harder to tear out, the pages
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  Speaker 3: are harder to damage, with the idea that this kind
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  Speaker 3: of book is the one a kid's going to read
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  Speaker 3: a hundred times.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been there many times. I know.
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  Speaker 2: My first introduction to parenting, One of my first introductions
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  Speaker 2: to parenting was was when my kid, my first child,
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  Speaker 2: it was about one.
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  Speaker 1: He tried to eat the book and so.
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  Speaker 2: I realized, oh, this is this is why, this is
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  Speaker 2: why we have board books for one of the reasons
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  Speaker 2: we have a lot of books.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe the next one we can do. We can we
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  Speaker 1: can make an edible book like a page of croc.
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  Speaker 2: Let a pagent pe. That's right, it's gonna be great.
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  Speaker 2: Read from the description the book, what we're talking about,
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  Speaker 2: what will you teach me? It includes interactive educational opportunities
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  Speaker 2: for kids to count, name colors and shapes, point out
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  Speaker 2: in different types of animals and more. And of course
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  Speaker 2: it teaches that God is the inventor of all things
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  Speaker 2: we can learn, and parents can help teach those ideas
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  Speaker 2: and their children. You are the host of a podcast,
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  Speaker 2: the Family Discipleship Podcast. How do you see this book
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  Speaker 2: kind of aligning with your broader mission of family discipleship.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, several years ago I wrote a
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  Speaker 3: book with Matt Chandler called Family Discipleship that's about spiritually
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  Speaker 3: leading your family. And our friends at Training the Church,
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  Speaker 3: the Knowing Faith Podcast, they came to us and asked
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  Speaker 3: us to think about doing a podcast that would equip
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  Speaker 3: parents to spiritually lead their family. And from that we've
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  Speaker 3: also created a series of resources like I've talked about
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  Speaker 3: for different ages, this again our youngest one. And so
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  Speaker 3: the idea of that podcast again is to equip parents
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  Speaker 3: to spiritually lead it home in ways that honestly, parents
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  Speaker 3: kind of mystify probably more than it needs to be,
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  Speaker 3: make it more difficult and unattainable in their minds than
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  Speaker 3: it needs to be. So we're also trying to demystify
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  Speaker 3: make accessible this idea that you can lead your home
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  Speaker 3: spiritually without being a seminary grad theologian, and scholar. And
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  Speaker 3: this is a great example of that where you know,
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  Speaker 3: maybe a lot of parents, especially if they didn't grow
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  Speaker 3: up around Christian education around the church, may not realize
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  Speaker 3: that the simplest lessons we teach are rooted in what
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  Speaker 3: we know is true about God. And so this book
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  Speaker 3: fits what we've always tried to do, which is a
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  Speaker 3: quick parents to think about discipling their children. My wife
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  Speaker 3: is fond of saying our podcast is not a parenting podcast.
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  Speaker 1: It's a discipleship podcast.
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  Speaker 3: It's about how you help your children become friends and
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  Speaker 3: followers of Christ. But it's also our attempt to disciple
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  Speaker 3: moms and dads as they follow Christ. And a lot
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  Speaker 3: of kids books that are written for Christians, the real
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  Speaker 3: target audience is the parent who's reading them. I would
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  Speaker 3: say this one is less so that we really are
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  Speaker 3: aiming at the youngest kids, but certainly I think there's
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  Speaker 3: an edi by work that's done in the heart of
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  Speaker 3: a parent as they consider all the different things they
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  Speaker 3: do or a living or around their home, and how
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  Speaker 3: those things teach them about the Lord.
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  Speaker 2: Adam, do you think we sometimes create an unnecessary divide
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  Speaker 2: between the spiritual and the secular and learning when in
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  Speaker 2: reality alwaysdom of knowledge you know, comes from God.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the reasons.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we help parents a lot think through school choices,
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  Speaker 3: and there's some great, you know, opportunities to be in
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  Speaker 3: public schools or homeschooled, and we've done many of those
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  Speaker 3: options ourselves. But one of the beautiful things about a
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  Speaker 3: Christian education are truly Christian education, not necessarily just a
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  Speaker 3: private education, but a Christian education helps us bridge that gap.
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  Speaker 3: You know what the really sad thing is, Michael, that
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  Speaker 3: the priority level in this generation where we would make
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  Speaker 3: sure our kid learns math, and make sure our kid
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  Speaker 3: learns how to read, and make sure our kids no science,
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  Speaker 3: and make sure our kids no history, but when it
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  Speaker 3: comes to learning the Bible, we'd kind of casually go,
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  Speaker 3: I bet they'll pick up enough as they go, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I bet they'll you know, by being a church they'll
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  Speaker 3: probably pick up enough, or they'll have a Saineti school
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  Speaker 3: teacher that'll probably teach them enough. We would never treat
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  Speaker 3: math or science or history that way. So while math
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  Speaker 3: and science and history also point us to Christ, a
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  Speaker 3: class or a time of discipleship that overtly teaches them
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  Speaker 3: about Christ has often taken the back burner. And so
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  Speaker 3: where we're trying to help parents see is not only
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  Speaker 3: do all these subjects point us to God, but there's
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  Speaker 3: a real opportunity here to say, there's nothing more important
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  Speaker 3: that I want you to learn than who God is
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  Speaker 3: and how He loves you. And it's not as simple
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  Speaker 3: as just knowing the characters of the Bible and a
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  Speaker 3: few of the stories. We're not talking about familiarity with scripture.
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  Speaker 3: We want to actually have our kids be challenged by
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  Speaker 3: the levels of theology they can approach in our own house.
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  Speaker 3: Because we are being challenged, we're being discipled, and so
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  Speaker 3: it's a critically important thing. And you're right, there's been
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  Speaker 3: a secular divide that's kind of made these subjects are
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  Speaker 3: important about One of my favorite authors in this area,
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  Speaker 3: John Tyson, talks about discipling his son and how if
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  Speaker 3: he got up every morning early and took his kid
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  Speaker 3: to football practice, our generation wouldn't.
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  Speaker 1: Blink an eye.
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  Speaker 3: But if he gets that very up every morning earlier
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  Speaker 3: than he has to to disciple this kid and read
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  Speaker 3: the Bible together, people will be like, man, that's intense.
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  Speaker 3: You go, well, why does that seemed more intense? This
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  Speaker 3: is so much more important than football about our generational
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  Speaker 3: black and I at math tests, are math worksheets or
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  Speaker 3: history lessons, but we'd kind of go and we'd expect
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  Speaker 3: our kids to get good grades in those and study
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  Speaker 3: hard to do their projects. But when it comes to
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  Speaker 3: the Bible, we'd give give a pass and just say,
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  Speaker 3: you know, you know. I bet you know enough by
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  Speaker 3: the time you're four. You're familiar with Noah, You're familiar
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  Speaker 3: with Adam and Eve. You know Jesus died of the Cross.
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  Speaker 3: That's probably good enough. Now, I want a lifelong discipleship,
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  Speaker 3: and I think that is going to take bridging some
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  Speaker 3: of these gaps from the way we've emphasized the secular
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  Speaker 3: education and deemphasized discipleship.
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  Speaker 2: Let me ask you more in basic questions I should
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  Speaker 2: have asked you at the beginning of it is I've
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  Speaker 2: heard of all my life, I've heard about discipleship and
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  Speaker 2: in church, and of course you're you're talking about family discipleship. Yep,
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  Speaker 2: give me kind of a definition of that in your mind.
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  Speaker 2: And I say that from this framework, when I read
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  Speaker 2: Genesis and Exodus, it seems like that's what they were doing.
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  Speaker 2: They were doing family discipleship. That's what all those commandments
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  Speaker 2: were about, you know, teaching your kids and all that.
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  Speaker 2: Is that what you're talking about in terms of what
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  Speaker 2: family discipleship truly is.
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  Speaker 1: That's a big part of it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So if discipleship, if we take it at his most
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  Speaker 3: basic level, some people would kind of think of discipleship
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  Speaker 3: as an education program in a church. Some people think
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  Speaker 3: of it as evangelism, like how do we reach people
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  Speaker 3: who don't know Christ? Or how do we mature those
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  Speaker 3: who do? And I would say discipleship should encompass both.
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  Speaker 3: Discipleship is about becoming friends and followers of God. Right,
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  Speaker 3: So at its most basic level, you're helping. Then you're
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  Speaker 3: helping somebody mature. You don't have to be an expert
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  Speaker 3: help somebody mature. You can actually walk alongside someone help
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  Speaker 3: the mature. You don't have to be walking so far
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  Speaker 3: ahead of them. And at Exodus, Moses is leading the
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  Speaker 3: people out of Israel and in Deuteronomy, he gives them
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  Speaker 3: this long speech before they enter the Promised Land, that's
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  Speaker 3: what you're referring to, Michael, And before or they enter,
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  Speaker 3: he tells these people, here's the command of God, the
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  Speaker 3: most important one. You're gonna love God with your whole heart,
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  Speaker 3: soul in mind. Ironically, again, secularly, we know what this
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  Speaker 3: looks like, right Michael. If somebody said they loved a
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  Speaker 3: football team with their whole heart, soul and mind't we
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  Speaker 3: would have certain expectations. Oh, I bet that means you
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  Speaker 3: wear some of their gear. I bet your house is
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  Speaker 3: decorated with some of their stuff. I bet you spend time,
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  Speaker 3: maybe even spend time with your family sitting around watching
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  Speaker 3: their games, maybe even spend your money going to their games.
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  Speaker 3: You probably build your calendar around when your team is playing.
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  Speaker 3: Those are things that happen when we say you love
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  Speaker 3: this team with your whole heart, soul, and mind. When
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  Speaker 3: we say love God with your heart, soul and mind
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  Speaker 3: is very similar. Moses follows that up with that means
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  Speaker 3: it's going to impact what you're talking about, And you're
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  Speaker 3: gonna talk about this all the time when you get up,
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  Speaker 3: when you go to bed, when you're on your way.
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  Speaker 3: It's gonna affect the way what you wear, it's gonna
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  Speaker 3: affect what you put up on the house. It's gonna
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  Speaker 3: be something that is just the truest and most important
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  Speaker 3: thing about you. Ironically, while we might romanticize that and
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  Speaker 3: see like see they get it now, the generation immediately
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  Speaker 3: after that rebels they handed off to Joshua. At the
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  Speaker 3: end of Deuteronomy and Joshua, it says the generation after
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  Speaker 3: Joshua did not follow God, and it actually calls back
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  Speaker 3: to the same idea that their parents did not pass
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  Speaker 3: us on. And this is not just for parents. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's the churches, the church at large. Right, the Christian
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  Speaker 3: older generation's role is to invest in the next generation.
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  Speaker 3: So it's not just for parents, it's for an entire
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  Speaker 3: generation of adults to say, what are we doing to
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  Speaker 3: share what we believe with another generation that is growing
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  Speaker 3: up right now. So it is pointing back to Genesis
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  Speaker 3: and Exodus, it is pointing back to Douterani. But it's
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  Speaker 3: also Michael. Of course, what we heard Jesus' command, right,
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  Speaker 3: He said to you, guys should be making disciples. And
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  Speaker 3: it's what we saw Jesus doing. We saw him making disciples.
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  Speaker 3: So if we're followers of Jesus, we want to do
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  Speaker 3: what Jesus did, we shouldn't we be the kind of
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  Speaker 3: people who listen to what he said to do and
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  Speaker 3: follow his example. Then what was he doing making disciples?
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  Speaker 3: What did he say to do? Make disciples? So that
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  Speaker 3: starts for a lot of us behind our front door.
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  Speaker 3: We're in our own homes, but it's not limited there,
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  Speaker 3: and we're making disciples wherever. Disciples need to be made
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  Speaker 3: everywhere we go. So it's not certainly not just the
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  Speaker 3: Old Testament, and it's actually a beautiful part of the
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  Speaker 3: New Testament. But that is a good place to root
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  Speaker 3: it him that this has always been true.
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  Speaker 1: About God's people. We help each other follow God.
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  Speaker 2: Let's circle back to the book that we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the episode here, What will You
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  Speaker 2: Teach Me? By BNHB. Do you see this being the
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  Speaker 2: first of a series of books. Do you have other
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  Speaker 2: ideas in your mind that you want to tackle in
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  Speaker 2: this genre.
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  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
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  Speaker 3: We do want to do a book that equips parents
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  Speaker 3: of kids this age, so thinking about the child dedications
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  Speaker 3: or thinking about discipleship from you know, there's not a
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  Speaker 3: lot of work out there for when you get pregnant.
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  Speaker 3: How do you think about discipling this baby? You think
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  Speaker 3: about sleep, do you think about food? You think about play,
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  Speaker 3: You don't think about rare, You don't think about spiritual
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  Speaker 3: leadership of a kid who can't speak yet. And so
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  Speaker 3: we do see ourselves probably writing a book for parents
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  Speaker 3: in that age. Then our kind of history has been
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: we're hitting different age groups. I think next we're probably
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  Speaker 3: going to do our resource sets for families to do
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  Speaker 3: devotions together of any age. But I've not got a
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  Speaker 3: series in mind yet, though. I always have some kids
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  Speaker 3: book ideas bouncing around in my head, and I don't
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  Speaker 3: know if they'll ever become something or not, but they're
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: up there, and one day they might be out there.
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  Speaker 1: We'll see. I'll give you one more.
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  Speaker 2: Bitut of hair for parents of young kids, pages toddlers one, two, three, four.
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  Speaker 1: What do you want to do? What do you want
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  Speaker 1: to tell them about this book before I let you go?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say this is what I hear from
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  Speaker 3: parents right now, is it quickly becomes their kid's favorite
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  Speaker 3: book just because of the illustrations. Okay, the illustrations are fantastic.
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  Speaker 3: There's so many animals and there's so much going on
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  Speaker 3: that your kid won't realize everything on every page until
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: they've read it three or four times. So that was
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  Speaker 3: intentional that there's just it is a mess of activity.
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  Speaker 1: On every page.
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  Speaker 3: But the content of the book and the opportunity you
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  Speaker 3: have the disciple your kid through it, that's what's going
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  Speaker 3: to make it one of your favorite books.
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  Speaker 1: So kids love it because of the pictures.
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  Speaker 3: I hope parents love it because it's going to spiritually
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  Speaker 3: bless them as they try to spiritually bless their kids.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're going to a baby shower or if
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: you've got a kid of your own, and I hope
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  Speaker 3: this is one that you'll consider doing because it's just
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  Speaker 3: different than other kids books. It's going to help you realize, Hey,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: we're going to teach us kid a lot of things,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: but most importantly about Jesus.
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  Speaker 4: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: and share the episode with a friend. A big thanks
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: to the team at life Audio for their partnership with
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: us on the podcast.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: If you go to lifeaudio dot
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: Com, you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts
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  Speaker 4: in their network see you next time.