Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Elle Duncan on Caitlin Clark's Sophie Cunningham problem, Olivia Miles' Ceiling | 8.4

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Elle Duncan on Caitlin Clark's Sophie Cunningham problem, Olivia Miles' Ceiling | 8.4 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Wave.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Right Time, a Wave original.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: My name is Beaumontie Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
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• 0:21
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• 0:24
  Speaker 2: a hater. It is that time of week where we
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: have a guest join us. And this guest last week
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: sent me a text and said, when can I come
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: on the show? Even though she knows the answer every
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: time is whenever you want. Like, you get this. The
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: calendar is yours from Netflix Sports. Let's go, Bo. Hi.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I know, that's always my... Whenever Bo checks in on me, like, randomly,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: because we are friends, I'll be like, yeah, blah, blah, blah,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: shoot the shit. Also, when can I come on the show? So,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: thank you for all the comedy.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: You always got a time. Like, I just check in,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: you know, because you always got a million things going on.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Now there's never no telling if you're going to be
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: on the top of a mountain or at the home
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: run derby, you know, or anywhere else. Netflix, like, you
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: are out of these trenches with us. Like when we
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: looked at the news on Sunday, it was like, we
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: ain't doing no Monday podcast. We ain't, ain't, ain't nothing there.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: You ain't even got to go through that no more.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: No, that's, that's, I think that's been an interesting part too.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Someone asked me that the other day, actually, is it
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: hard to do a major event and then like not
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: do anything for a month? And I was like, yeah,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm used to the beats of like five, six,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: sometimes seven days a week because I did work at ESPN.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And so that's the thing is like, you do this
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: big thing, you put all of it into it and
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: then just kind of just, It just goes away. I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: have not wanted in a long time, there's only been
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: a few moments since I've left ESPN where I've been like, God,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I wish I was on air tomorrow. And I wanted
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to be on air after the Derby because I just
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: think Jordan Walker's story is so freaking cool. And man,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: it was an awesome Derby.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: It was awesome. After I stopped doing High Noon, I
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: was pretty clear to myself like, hey man, I don't
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: want to do like the daily television grind again. Now
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I want to be very clear. that opinion or that
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: desire seemed to be reciprocated by the industry that I
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: worked in. But I was just like that, man, we
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: got to come up with this every single day. Like
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: this has become like an everyday podcast, but we have
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: much greater flexibility in terms of what we're going to do.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And we only got to get to like the, the
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: top stuff that's there. Like when people get on ESPN
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and be like, man, they talked about the Cowboys four
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: times this week. I would love for you to program
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: a show in late July and early August, no matter
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: who you are. I would love for you to sit
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: down and decide to come up with two hours worth
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: of shit for people to talk about and listen to
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: you talk about.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Like this is the absolute most difficult time
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: for producers in this space. Like, The summer and like, yeah,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you've got some baseball. You obviously have the WNBA and
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: their rise has helped as well kind of take up
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that summer calendar. But yeah, typically in this industry, after
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the NBA finals, everyone goes on vacation. It's when you
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: start seeing all these different pairings on air because people
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: are burning all their time off. Producers are trying to
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: figure out what the hell to talk about. And like
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: every once in a while, you'll get, you know, a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: little nugget will drop in your lap. LeBron James, thank
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: you so much for going to Philadelphia. That's going to
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: occupy two weeks. We'll see what happens. But this is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: it's it's not easy, you guys. It's really not easy
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to try to figure out what to talk about seven
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: days a week on multiple shows and then be different
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: from the other shows on your own network.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Right. A lot. Well, it's because this shit don't matter. Right.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a snide way. This
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: is an entertainment product. There's nothing that becomes imperative, truly,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: for you to talk about. So when you get to
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: this part of it, thank you, NBA, by the way.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Because with the new, like, free agency is now before
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: free agency because it's the trade market. And then you
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: get the free agency. And as much as many of
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: us joked about LeBron and how he was just going
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: to wait until he had the whole, you know, all
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: the stuff to himself after the World Cup. Appreciate you, homeboy.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I don't really know what it was that we was
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: going to do without you. Like, that was an example
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: of him doing us a solid. Way to go, LeBron. WNBA,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the rise is happening. But, like, for a sports center,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: it's been great because you can run the highlights and
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you can say the things or whatever. Like, it's at
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: that point where you can get interest in those sorts
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: of things. Over here on Yakety Yak Street, we're still
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: not at the point where, on a mass level, people
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: want to hear us talk about the actual basketball, right? Like,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: we're still not there, which is sad because right now,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: that goddamn Olivia Miles, they're... Hey, man, it is the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: friendly reminder that... Most of us fell in love with
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: basketball for the aesthetics of it all, right? Like what
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it looks like when there's a really, really cool basketball player.
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  Speaker 2: It was not about maximizing these equations and cooking up
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: these statistics and all this ball movement and everything else. No, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: For you younger people, you just didn't grow up in
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: an era with, it's me and you and somebody dribbling
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: the ball with that whole demeanor of, You can't guard me.
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  Speaker 2: It's just a matter of time before I embarrass you.
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  Speaker 2: And we got one of those again, right? Like Kyrie
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Irving in the NBA is like the last of the
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Mohicans like that. Olivia Miles is like, yeah, go. Let's
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: do this. Let's see how this goes.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: She has been like, honestly, if she wasn't living in
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: an era of Asia Wilson, then I think she would
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: have more conversation in the MVP category. Debate, she's obviously
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: locked up Rookie of the Year, but she's so freaking
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: fun to watch. And honestly, for the people that don't
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: know Olivia Miles' story or kind of she just fell
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: into their purview maybe after she left Notre Dame, she
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: was a top prospect, Rookie of the Year in the ACC,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: hurts herself. You know, in comes Hannah Hidalgo. Now, all
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's this power struggle of whose team
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: it is, who's going to be who's going to bring
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the ball up, like who you had these two incredible guards.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Olivia Miles did not play any defense in college. Let's
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: be real. Hannah Hidalgo, that's her specialty. And so Olivia leaves.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: She goes to TCU. There's a lot of questions about
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: why and this and that. And I remember one of
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the last images of her at Notre Dame. in the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: tournament is her sort of quitting defensively. And like, it
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: looked like she gave up. She goes to TCU. Look
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: what she did to that program. Took them to new
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: heights that they'd never been to before. And then she
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: comes into the WNBA and is absolutely killing it. And
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: like I said, if she didn't live in the Asia
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Wilson era, she could be just the second person to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: win MVP as a rookie joining Candace Parker. She's just
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: been so fun to watch. But alas, let's talk about
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: other stuff.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: What I'll tell you is though, if I was her,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't play no goddamn defense neither. I'm doubling up.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I'm doing somebody else's job over here. Y'all take care
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: of that.
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  Speaker 1: She has improved defensively. She definitely has. It's a part
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  Speaker 1: of her game that will continue to grow.
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  Speaker 2: Good for her. Good for her. Because I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Let me do a little nerdy sports thing right fast
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: about Asia Wilson. Because the other day, one thing I
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: find that's interesting for me as someone who doesn't watch
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: women's basketball very much is that I don't always know
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: how to interpret statistics. And what I mean by that
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: is what a good field goal percentage is And the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: women's game is not the same as the men's game,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: so forth and so on. Right. And I never really
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: paid any attention to the advanced statistics over there. So
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: there's a stat I look at a lot, which is
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: win shares for 48 minutes. And in the NBA, it
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: is the most accurate predictor of like who is going
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to win the MVP. Right. It pretty much goes every year.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Guys like Jokic and SGA right now are in like a.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: 300 range or a little higher than that, which is otherworldly,
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  Speaker 2: like top seven all time. In 2023, Aja Wilson put
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: up a win shares per 48 minutes of. 406. That
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: isn't real. Like, like when I look at the, looking
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: at the numbers in advanced stuff for her, it is like,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: oh no, this is a no brainer. I can't imagine
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: there's any way anybody's been better than this. Look, just
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: if I'm looking just at those numbers, I could not
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: believe like watching her play. It's like, obviously this is
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: a very good player. Looking at numbers with it was like, yo,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: this is breaking the game.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: People keep forgetting in this dynastic Vegas run that like
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: up until last year's championship, they did not even have
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: a bench. So it really truly was. And we saw
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that last year all on Asia Wilson. And the thing
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: about Asia is I get it. There is greatness apathy.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I was the main one. Like, please God, Tom Brady,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: go away. We get it. Like you are the greatest,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: please like stop. We get it. I was the main
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: one that was ready for him to move on because
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I I was tired of him having a stranglehold on
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the league, but I do think that we have to
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: appreciate that Asia Wilson is not only the greatest basketball
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: player of all time, will go down as the greatest
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: basketball player of all time until someone dethrones her at
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: some point, but she's also on worldly bow because every
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: year she breaks records for And then she finds a
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: way to elevate again. This is not, let's just keep
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: giving her the MVP because there's no other really good candidates.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: There are incredible candidates every single year who are so deserving.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Nafisa Collier last year, right? Like that was her Kevin
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Durant versus LeBron thing where it was like, God, LeBron,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: go away so I can win an MVP. They are
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: always very deserving. But Asia every single year elevates her game.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And when you think she can't elevate anymore... She finds
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: another thing, which is like this year with her three
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: point shooting. So you're telling me a big of Asia's
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: caliber can now shoot threes at a career clip. Like
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: it's just unfair. It's totally unfair that she is the best.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And then she just keeps pacing herself and getting better
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and resetting the standard. It's you, it just, you have
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to marvel to watch it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Not like that. She's the one I feel like you
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: could kind of talk about her basketball in a, in
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: a general audience setting. at this point, right? Because I
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: always say I'm reluctant too because I don't know. I
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: watched those other leagues a lot longer. I'm much better
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: at it. I know a lot more about it. what
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about. I'm like a little less good at it.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: That's why the miles thing has been so overpowering. Cause
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, dude, there's nothing to interpret here. Right. There's no,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: there's no, there's no making this relative. This is familiar
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: as fuck. Like I've seen this in on many levels
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and I miss it. I miss it greatly.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I'm with you, Bo. But I also think too, I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: love what you said that I don't watch it enough
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to have a really strong opinion in this. Let that
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: be a lesson to us all, that when we're newer
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to spaces, that we can be fans, that we can
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: marvel at different players and whatnot. But that if we
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: don't know, if we don't watch enough WNBA to say
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: without question that this person is treated differently or this
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: person is a difference maker or this person isn't, then
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: maybe let's just like have our opinion and then be
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: really open-minded to other people's opinions as well. Because like, ultimately,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's annoying the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: most in the WNBA is like, The same person out
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of the same mouth on one side will say, I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: don't watch any of these bitches. And then on the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: other side say, none of these women are as good
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as this other person that I like. Or, you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: if you say something like, well, I think the Lynx
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: are going to win it because of Olivia Miles. And then,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of course, they've got Fee, one of the best basketball
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: players on the planet. You're somehow hating on... somebody else's
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: favorite team and it's like well how much have you
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: watched of them to know so like let that be
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: a lesson to us all no one's saying if you're
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: a new fan you have to be quiet you can't
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: have an opinion uh you can't have a favorite i'm
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: just saying be open-minded that like maybe your opinion is
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: not the end-all be-all because you just don't have enough
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: acumen and that will come the more that you watch.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah and i think with the media stuff i do
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: think i know ryan rusillo got in trouble with some
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: people i guess it was maybe a year or two
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: ago where he said, I don't watch the WNBA and
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I have to watch the WNBA
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and that's nothing against the WNBA, but that's just not
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. And I actually was like, yeah,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I see that. Right. If you've made the call, that's
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: not what you're going to do. That's cool. I think
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of us felt pressure in the last couple
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: of years. And I don't know if pressure is the
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: right way to put it, but, an inclination to feel
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: like this is the new thing that's coming up, so
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I should probably talk about this. Yeah, FOMO. Yeah, but
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: it's not even FOMO as much as the audience seems
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: to want this. And then, like I said with me,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I felt like they thought they wanted it until I
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: did it. And then it was kind of like, oh,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: this isn't going over like nearly as well. Because, hey,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I know how to do culture stuff. And then everybody
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: gets a little tired of the culture stuff because it's
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: become so incredibly inflammatory. And it was culture stuff in
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a way that didn't allow for no jokes. Like nobody
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: could have it. Like there was no fun for it.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: They roped you into it the other day. I was like, ugh. Oh,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: that's tough.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, they always do. They always do. Listen, the thing
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that I have come to accept and I'm okay with
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: is that I just understand the tenor of social media.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I get what it is. I understand why it exists
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and what it's for. I know why I have it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I have it because it's important for brands. It's important
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to communicate what you're doing. And because I do like,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I love... being on social media and experiencing a big
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: sports moment with other people. I do, you know, like
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: most of my Twitter during like a big sporting event
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: is just like stream of consciousness. It's like, you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I look back on these tweets and I'm like, what
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: game was this even? I didn't use any hashtags. I'm
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: just tweeting shit like, oh my God, are you kidding me?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But I also understand that like, rage bait, the opportunity
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to be opportunistic. That's all it is. It's like, oh,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: this Black woman gave a thought on Caitlin Clarke. Let's
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: blow it up and make it a big thing. And
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it's frustrating on some ends because I don't know how
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: many times I went down this rabbit hole the other
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: day of I was this close to hitting up my
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: social media girl and being like, can you pull all
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the clips of me talking positively about Caitlin Clark? And
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: then I was like, why? I don't have to defend
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: this position. I have no issues with Caitlin Clark. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: have only ever had issues with the narratives around her.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: with some of the fans that say things that I
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: think are inflammatory, racist, and bigoted. This idea, this generalization
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of an entire league of women. I have issues with
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: all of those things. I've said for years that I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: did not feel like it was Caitlyn's responsibility to tamp
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: things down because she didn't ask to be the face
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: of this, right? And I don't think it's fair. I
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: also felt like this would all die down by now.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I thought three years in, I thought like with the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: basketball to talk about, which is what we just said,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: like I thought all of those things would mean that
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: eventually we'd move past this and it's just not the case.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And so what I said on that podcast the other day,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I stand by in that. I think that Caitlin's PR
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: team essentially has to say, Caitlin is having a career year.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: She's playing so well. The fever team are one of
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the hottest teams in the league right now. But when
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you Google the Indiana fever, all that comes up is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: transphobic stuff, stuff about, you know, Caitlin Clark and racism
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and whether the women hate her congressional hearings. None of
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: it is about the basketball. And so if I'm her team,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going, how the hell do we get this back
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: about the basketball? And I just feel like like the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: statements that she's made and I saw her interview that
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: she just did with Malika. And like, again, I understand
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that she's trying. I just think you have to go
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: back to the drawing board because it's not working like
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: they've already used you. They're they're continuing to use you.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, to me, it's just the idea
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that if you keep doing the same thing over and
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: over and it's not working, you just have to have
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: a different approach because I want that for her. I
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: want it for her. I want her to be able
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to like, you know, not have to dodge the media
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: for fear that she's going to be asked some question
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: about some divisive question about politics. It's just, it's absurd.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: It's made the W the least fun league to cover.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And that's not just me. That's most people that are
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: in this space are like, Oh my God, we love
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the increased attention and all the things that have come
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: with it. And obviously the women are getting more money
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and they're getting all of the things that they have
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: earned and deserved. But on top of that increased attention, um,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: how the hell do we handle this? Because it's become
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: more than like an elephant in the room. It's become
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the dark cloud of the league. And it's, it's, it's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: really frustrating as someone that just loves it and wants
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to focus on basketball.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My thing was, I truly don't like, I've seen
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the many times that she has tried to say there's
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: no place for racism and everything else. I just don't
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: think there's anything they can do about it in part,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: because I think people are addicted to being angry. Like
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I think the nature of like, I think it's a,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: We can acknowledge on an individual level, and we have
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: friends who are like this. I noticed this. You are
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: not one of these. I am not one of these.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: At least, I'm certainly not that at this point. People
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: who are just really addicted to the back and forth
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: and go find these people. Mark Zuckerberg said when they
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: started putting the bots on Facebook, of AI characters. He's like, yeah, well,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: we think you'll learn to like these people as much
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: as you like your real friends, which was terrifying. But
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: then I watched people do that with them bots every
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: day on the internet, right? Like they're addicted to being mad.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And she, I don't know how good she would have
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: to be to transcend all that noise But she hasn't
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: been as good as a lot of those people expected
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: her to be, in part because, as you said, they
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: didn't really know nothing about the league in the first place.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: So the basketball has not been so excellent as to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: where there's nothing else that you really like. When Larry
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Bird came in the league, it was he was like that. Therefore,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: any discussion that came up about the other stuff you
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: did when they were like Larry Bird, the best player
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: in the NBA, it was like, damn, man, they right.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: You know, like you had the moment where you had
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to like really ride that out. she hasn't wound up
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: being quite that good, which in a basketball way makes
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: it more interesting. There's a climb, there's a progression. This
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: is a league where older players don't cycle out as
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: much because of the money situation. It's not like a
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: younger player is that much cheaper than an older one.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: So like the hierarchy is more established. It's hard. She's
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: trying to climb a tough mountain, man. And maybe knocking
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: you around in that league too. Like just on the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: basic Greek mythology type of story of the climb or
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the way that we typically did sports, It's all right there.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: But that's not why so many of these people got
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: into it in the first place. And that's not the
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: part that sells in the world of algorithm. And so
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: now everybody's mad. Everybody's mad. And now I have a
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: hot take. Something that the fever can do to make
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: it better.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if you've ever heard this one.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: You covered the Atlanta Hawks. You're probably familiar with the concept.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: They always say about on a basketball team, if you
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: got knuckleheads. You can have one knucklehead. Yeah. But you
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: can't have two. Sure. Right? You can't put them in
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: the same place. No, no, no. I'm starting to think
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: that you can have a Caitlin Clark, but you can't
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: have it with a Sophie Cunningham. Can't do it at
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the same time. Because right now, all the heat ain't
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: really got nothing to do with Caitlyn Clark. She bringing
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: all the heat, right? That whole, I don't really be
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: thinking about it. I just say shit, right? She gets
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: out here. She says it. It's the thing. And now
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: they coming over to Caitlyn Clark like, hey, Caitlyn, you
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: know how Sophie be like filing people for you? Anyway,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: what do you think about what she had to say?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And they're like, man, Caitlyn ain't talking to none of y'all.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: They can't even bring her around to people. But the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: heat is coming from the other one. And legitimately, in
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: men's sports, we talk about distractions and all of those things.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: That is as big a distraction as there has ever
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: been around a team. The people who thought it was
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: legitimate to keep Colin Kaepernick off a roster because of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: his politics are now totally enamored with this woman off
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: of this one take that becomes interesting because it is
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: a minority take in the league and it is easily
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: a majority take in the nation. But she brings, if
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: you go have Kaitlyn Clark on the team, You can't
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: have one of those right there. Unless Kayla's trying to
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: lean in with it, right? Unless the game for her
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: were to be, you know what? Nah, I'm in that
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: same direction. And then it's like, you got somebody to take.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the heat off of you. It seems pretty clear that
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: this isn't quite, she does not have the same get
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: down as Sophie Cunningham. but she going to have to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: answer for everything. Sophie Cunningham say, and Sophie Cunningham going
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: to keep saying it all. Cause this is what's getting
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: her bread. This is what's getting her on TV. This
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: was her getting at the, her at the UFC matches.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: She's become an honest to God celebrity. And she averaged
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: like five points a game in the WNBA. Yeah.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think like for Caitlin neutrality is, is
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: obviously the goal because she's got a lot more to
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: lose than Sophie. She is a huge brand, a huge name. And,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and so she, Listen, I'll be candid. I said this
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: on the podcast I was on a couple of days
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: ago where they brought up Sophie. She's a colleague. I'll
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: be working with her on tomorrow on USA sports.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: So I don't address, you know, you know, I've had
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: some colleagues that I have loved in my life to flame,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: but I have just had a standard, like, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: operating procedure of like, I just don't comment on colleagues
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: because I have to work with them. And ultimately the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: most important thing is, you know, being on air together
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and making that work and chemistry. But I will say that, yeah,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think in general, it's interesting. I was
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: having this conversation the other day with someone yesterday, actually.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: This is a league that was born on activism, that
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: was born on being political. I think that it is
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: hypocritical to say that in a league that has always
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: rallied around activism, speaking your mind, using the court as
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: a pulpit for the things that you believe in, whether
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: they cross sports or not, that's what the league was
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: founded on and they've always been. you know, really big
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: in that space. I would say that the difference with
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: this one is that typically in the WNBA, those causes
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that the players rally around are in support of marginalized communities.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And this take, of course, is in direct conflict to that.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And that is, I think, where you're getting this really big,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: why this has been such a huge blown up story,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: not just that Sophie's, because I do, I find it
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to be so hypocritical that the stick to sports people are,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: are now holding rallies at the sport. Let's just be honest,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: but we always knew what it was, which is that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: stick to sports if you're saying something I don't like. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Which is everybody, by the way.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is everybody. Like now, you know, now it's like,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: shut up and play basketball. And, you know, and so
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I do find that to be, you know, hypocritical. I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: just think that that's where we're at is that like
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in a league that has always been about activism, now
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: we're seeing a political discourse that is in contradiction with
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: to everything that the league really was about, which was like,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I hate saying the island of misfit toys, but that's
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: always been their mantra bow, right? Like if you belong
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: nowhere else, if you feel like you have no safe
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: space anywhere else, if you don't feel comfortable at an
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: NFL game or whatever, if you don't feel like you
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: have people, You have people here, this space, amongst all
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: of these marginalized communities with black women, with queer women,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with like all of these from all different walks of life.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: You are welcome here. You know, it's always been, you know,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: gay families at the games and straight families at the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: games and, you know, trans families at the games and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: black and white. And it's always been a welcome space.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I remember the Atlanta Dream. They're all dancers. Their dance
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: team used to be like guys and girls, old and young.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: And that's always what the W is about was like,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: we will collect all of you who feel like outcasts
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: everywhere else. You will be safe here and you will
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: be loved here. So I think it's been startling for
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that has been in this space
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: for a long time because now all of a sudden,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the posters and the rallies and things like that are
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: in conflict of a marginalized group. In fact, the most
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: marginalized group that exists. And so there's just these two,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of existential things that are happening right now,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: but it's, I did think Cheryl Reeves had a really
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: great comments about her and Sophie. They chatted before the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: fever links game the other day. And, and she was like,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: it was good to just talk through our differences. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: feel very differently about things, but we expressed how we feel.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: And ultimately, you know, we have the same sort of
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: ideas of how we're going to use our voice and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in support of what we're going to use it for.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So yeah, You know, it's, I don't know, Bo, I, I,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I wish I had a solution for how all of
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: this like goes away. Obviously the internet doesn't love my solutions. Um,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: but I do think that, you know, I've been at
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: this place of avoid, avoid, avoid. I just don't want
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. It's a headache. Every time I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: talk about it, it gets clipped from a podcast. I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: have to avoid socials for four days. I'm getting text
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: messages from right wing, you know, media companies that want to,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Want to come on the show.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Right, which is a joke. I'm never coming on your show, OutKick.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: It's never going to fucking happen. You can literally stop asking.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But I also think that like that isn't a solution
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: either to avoid and evade. And like that's not it either.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, it's an uncomfortable conversation and one
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that most people don't want to get into because they
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: know they're going to be attacked and they're going to
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: there's going to be articles about I'm sure there'll be
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: articles about this. Like I called it on the last podcast.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to talk about this. They're
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: going to clip off 15 seconds of this and then
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: it's going to go viral and then everyone's going to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: be in my shit. And it's like, that's just, but
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: that's the tenor of social media, Bo. And that's where
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: we're at. And I'm all good with, you know why?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: You know why I'm all good with it? Because all
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I have to do to avoid it is put my
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: fucking phone down.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Turn it off.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: So what? I still got to go pick my kids
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: up from camp. I still got to be a snack
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: bitch when they come home. None of this actually matters
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: because it is not real life. These manufactured ass things.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: are not real. They're fake. I'm looking at you, Monica McKnight.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: We're going to get to that. I want to make
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: this one point right fast on what you said, is
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: that I think that particularly the issue of trans participation
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: in sports and what we're talking about is trans women, right?
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Like that's where the space is that we're discussing.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they don't care about trans men.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no. That's not it, right? It is...
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: in many ways, like, for this league, a bit of
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: an unwinnable fight. And the reason that I say that is,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: within the league, there seems to be a pretty consensus
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: opinion about what side to be on on this matter.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I think it is also very important to note that
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: trans and gay or lesbian are not the same thing,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and their interests are not always directly aligned, so you
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: never know who might think what about this topic, right?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Just throwing that part out there. But, The vast majority
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: of Americans agree with Sophie Cunningham, right? All things related
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to trans people require what I consider to be very
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: complex explanations about what is going on. And to most people,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: it is a common sense thing. We don't let boys
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: and girls play sports together. And just the other day,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: you said this person was a boy. And now you're
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: saying they're a girl. What's the difference, right? There are
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: explanations that people can offer. It's not, it's one of
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: those where my brother once told me a great argument
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: is not one a genius can't refute, it's one a
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: fool can't refute. And this is a really tough one
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: to sell to a fool, right? Like this is really,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: really hard. And so the league, because of what you
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: described and what its history, has no choice but to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: stand 10 toes down on the side that it typically
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: stands with, which puts it in opposition at all times
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: with the majority of people on the other side. And
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: what this issue is to me and where I think
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: it is kind of historically interesting, I forget what book
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: it was that I read that said that for a while,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the right, like people like Jerry Falwell and them, they
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: kept looking for some issue they could hang their hat on,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: like post-segregation, that they could really rally the troops on
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the right around. And they threw all this stuff against
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: the wall. And the thing that stuck was abortion. Like
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: abortion was not a hugely controversial thing prior to the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: early 1970s. They found out that that was a talking
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: point that really got their base together and kind of
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: got people riled up. And so that leads to the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: next 50 years of discourse. This is the new one
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: that they threw against the wall and they found like
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: this really gets people charged up. Like in a very
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: simple sense, a guy I used to work for on
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: radio said this is like 15 years ago, but he
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: was right. He was like, to this day, say Pete
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Rose shouldn't be in the hall of fame and watch
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the phone lines light up. That was our topic that
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: always lit it up. This is that it gets the
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: people going. And I haven't seen anybody change their mind yet,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: by the way. Right. Like it gets the people going.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And so the league is stuck in this position where,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: especially if you have that woman who looks like that
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and has her background, which is interesting because it's the
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: same background as Michael Porter jr. And then But that
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: woman sounds like that, looks like that, throws it out there.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: You're stuck. And now they're putting the microphone in the
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: face of your young star who wants to be all
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: things for all people and is, I think, learning. Not possible.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: It's not going to work. But.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: My whole issue, Bo, is that like, we keep, you
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: use the word issue like 10 times and I'm like,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that's the point is that you guys, this isn't an issue. Like,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: And it's not because I agree with you, by the way,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: it is a talking point more than it is an issue.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's not an issue because ultimately like guys, the majority
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of Americans that agree with Sophie Cunningham's opinion, it worked
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: like transgender athletes can't compete in NCAA. They can't compete
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: at the Olympics. They're doing gender testing now in the WTA. Like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: It worked. Like they are, they are keeping transgender athletes
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: out of these spaces. So like, what is the argument? Like,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: what are we still arguing? It's like arguing that they
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: need to pull the Berlin wall down.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: They did. It's over. You know what it is though?
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: It's done.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: It's, I just, I like. also a non-issue because here
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: is where I have the most issue with it is
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: that it is used with the cloak of protecting girls.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Because if you can say to someone, we want to
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: protect girls, who wouldn't want to protect girls? Of course
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: we all want to protect girls, right? And so when
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: you use it as the guise of we want to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: protect girls. And so we want to my issue is
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it's a new it. Listen, it's a super complex situation.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And I don't have any solutions. I don't know the answer.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: You know, on the surface, the easy answer is start
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a transgender league. But then you look and you go,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: there are not even enough transgender athletes to start a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: transgender team, let alone the whole entire league. And that's
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: where I have the hardest time with this. This is
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: not a crisis anymore. This is not an issue that
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: is infiltrating our girls' sports. It's not. I sit on
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: a collective, Bomani, with some of the biggest, most powerful
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: women in sports. And our whole goal is, for this
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: year of this collective, is to try to get more
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: female coaches in women's These spaces.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Because we did a ton of research and the research
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: showed that the real existential crisis for women in sports
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: and while girls are dropping out is because they don't
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: feel as valued or important as men's sports is because
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: they do not have representation that looks like themselves from
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: coaching positions. These are the young girls telling you. what
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the crisis is in women's sports. And it is not
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: transgender athletes, of which most of these girls will never
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: encounter in their entire playing career. And that's my problem,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: is that if you were to just look at headlines,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you would think there is a transgender athlete in the W.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: There never has been, not in 30 years. And so
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: these are just, we're making mountains out of molehills, situations
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: that should be nuanced, that should be looked at. And
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you can do that, guys, because there are so few
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: cases of this. You do have the bandwidth to look
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: at each one of these situations on the surface because
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: there are so few of them. To act like this
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: is impacting our daughters everywhere is absurd. I reject that.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I reject it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Because you know what is affecting our daughters? You know
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: what is putting our daughters in real harm are the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: thousands of sexual assault lawsuits that we see across campuses
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and that we see amongst coaches and organizations. It's the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: lack of resources. If you care about protecting girls and
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: women's sports, then why don't you speak out on the
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: countless Title IX lawsuits that are happening across the country? Like,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: why aren't those things that you're focused on? You want
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: to focus on the transgender athletes? Fine. But why can't
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: you also? Why do I never see any of these
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: people talking about protecting girls and women from predatory coaches,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: from predatory organizations? And why are we not talking about
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the fact that there are, to this day, thousands of
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Title IX lawsuits that are going around college campuses right
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: now because they are not living up to the standard
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: that was set by Title IX?
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: When I was doing game theory, we were going to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: do a thing on, I think it was Kentucky was
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: passing one of these laws against allowing transgender athletes to participate.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: On one side, it was the state of Kentucky. On
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: the other side, it was a girl in seventh grade.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Literally one. Yes. Like it was literally the state. Yeah.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Against one girl. Right. Like that's the there's no there.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Their argument is the is the biggest one. It's just
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: this doesn't come up. I have a buddy of mine
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: who makes the argument that it should be an easy
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: win for the for the left to just give this
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: one up. But I'm like, but you can't give it
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: up because if you give it up, you give up
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: on the people. And that's the point that people are
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: trying to make. And that's where it becomes. It doesn't
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: matter if you are how how much of the minority
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: you are on this issue. If you're the WNBA and
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: its participants. You can't give up on the people. That's
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: not what you do, right? They just can't be. And
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: then you wind up in the noise strictly because people
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: want to make noise because they'd rather talk about the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: noise than they would actually talk about the basketball because
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: they don't care about the basketball.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: They do not care. You get a lot more headlines
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: if you make a political statement than if you have
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: 45 points. And we've seen that all year long.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yep. Coming up next, pedicures on television. The Right Time
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  Speaker 2: science-backed picks today at GNC.com. All right, we are back
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: with Elle Duncan. We were talking about things that can
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: kind of get manufactured on television, and you brought this
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: up at a... I was in Houston over the weekend
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: for the UGK Ride and Dirty 30th anniversary show. That
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: was a Houston-ass good time, boy. Let me tell you. Yes,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: So many golds, were there golds everywhere?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. We kind of age past the gold
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: portion of it. Okay, all right. Because there's a bunch
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: of people my age and older that were in that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: bad boy. You know what I mean? But it's a
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: lot of dudes that found what you need, boy, which
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: is a woman that'll wrap the UGK with you. Like,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of his and hers in there.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Let's go. Yeah. But while I'm there, I look at
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: my phone, and it looked like Monica McNutt went on
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: SportsCenter from the salon. And she was getting her feet
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: done and people decided to make that the thing that
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: they got mad about. And then after those people got mad,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: people got mad about the fact that the other people
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: got mad and it just turned into a forever argument.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Dude, I saw this headline and I'm not going to lie.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: When I see a headline about a friend, I always
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: pause because I know that. that we always blame the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: media for their behaviors, but we also have culpability when
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: we click on these things, right? Nobody gives a shit
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: about your rage engagement or not, or whether you're doing
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: it out of protest. As soon as you engage, you
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: have engaged. And you encourage them to put more dumb
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: ass stories out like this because you've engaged that. But
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the headline was so salacious. I just had to click.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: The headline was like, huge controversy after where Monica McNutt
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: does one of her segments. And like low key in
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: my head, I was like, Oh my God, please God, Monty,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: tell me that you did this from like the gynecologist.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: You were getting an annual or something. And you're like, well,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I'm getting scoped. Let me give you the scoop. Like
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I was just waiting for something so salacious. I was
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: so hopeful. And, um, and then they said she was
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: getting a pedicure at a nail salon. And I was like,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: this has got to be a joke. I mean, like you,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: this can't actually be real only because, and I feel like, listen,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: this has been debated for days and whatnot. Shout out
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: to Monty. She is a friend. So I understand that
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: some of this is a little bit biased, but I
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: don't think that it is. I've done this for a
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: very long time, TV for a long time. And the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: whole point of working at ESPN is is your availability.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: And I have not talked to Mani about this because
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's so silly. I have no idea if
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: they called her and were like, we want you to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: come on. We don't care if you're at the nail salon.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I don't really know any of the beats of this story,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: but I know having worked at ESPN, we have done
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: hits with people at doctor's offices. I did a hit
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: with someone who were named nameless at a funeral. We've
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: had like insiders tell us like, give me one second,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I'm in the bath. Like when they want you on
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: TV to respond or react to something, the whole idea
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: is this raw, dirty, wherever you are, FaceTime, Dan Orlovsky's
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: FaceTimes from the car with Pat McAfee. So I think
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: it's because she's a woman and because she was doing
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: a very feminine thing. You know, if Monica is like
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: at the park working out, no one gives a shit.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: But because she's getting her nails done, then all of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: a sudden she's not being a professional. And I just
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: think it's so silly and absurd.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have put her on television. That's my thing.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: If I am producing that.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't have put her on TV when you found
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: out she was at the nail salon.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if I'm producing that show. Now, I will say this.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of hits. Why? I've done a
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: lot of hits in a lot of weird places over
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: the telephone.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, sure.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: The reason why I would not is the whole reason
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: that we're here right now, right? Like, I do think
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: that I did not think it was a big deal, right?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't think it was anything that should be
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: a days long controversy, but it's like a perfect topic
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: for morning radio. And those are the things that really
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: get social media going or the kind of things that
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: people talk about on the breakfast, I mean the breakfast club,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: not that show generally. Like there's breakfast clubs all over
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the country.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a million breakfast clubs.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Like this is the kind of
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: topic that would go there. So nah, if I'm producing
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: the show, and I need you on camera and you're
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: sitting in the, okay, let me give you a better example.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: When I wore that t-shirt that one time, right? The
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: phone call I got, I've talked about this many times,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: but this isn't new. The phone call I got about
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the Caucasians t-shirt made the point that all anybody is
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: talking about right now on social media is your shirt
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: and not anything that you have to say right now. Sure.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: And I said, you know what? That's a fair point.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I'll zip this hoodie up for you because that's that
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: is correct. Right. If I turned on television, I would
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: be thinking more about, wait a minute, she getting her
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: feet done than whatever it is that she's talking about.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: So I, as the producer, would not have done it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: But the decision is that of the producer. It is
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the producer whose job it is to be like, hey,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: you know what? We'll catch you a little bit later. Right. Like.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Because also, McAfee is a bad example, but a great example,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: because I think this is the McAfee-ication of that network
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: because McAfee has just had people sitting in cars, sitting wherever.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Like the whole point of that is to not look
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: like a television show. They don't talk like a television show.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: They cuss like it's not a television show. And now
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: that whole network has little bits of all of that
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: sprinkled in all over the place because the overall standard
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: of presentation for the network has fallen completely. because the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: biggest star and most powerful man at the network establishes
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: what the culture is.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I think too, honestly, I think after COVID, because again,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: I was there, like, I think ESPN realized, you know,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: they were spending so much money flying in analysts to
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: do their shows every single week, sending these, you know,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: we call them TVUs, which is like units. You can
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: set your own camera up. They're very expensive. They were
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: doing all of these things. And then COVID happens and,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: And they discover that people don't actually really care that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: much if you've got a gorgeous backdrop and fresh lighting.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: If you're okay with it, they're really just there for
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the information. And I think the sort of stripped down
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Zoom look of it all, we all spent years on Zoom.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I think it told them or informed them that people
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: care more about the information than they care about the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: presentation of it. Obviously, you wouldn't want... your main sports
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: center show to be coming from a nail salon pedicure chair.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But like, if you, you know, if you're getting someone
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: walking into a whatever or saying it's all good, like
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: we like that raw sort of dirty thing. So I
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: won't just put that on the feet of Pat McAfee.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I do think that like the network just got to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: a place where they're like, we'll, you know, we'll take
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: it instead of having to wait on Monica to finish
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: her pedicure. get to a station, book the station, book
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a producer, blah, blah. So much easier to just have
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: her FaceTime. Oh, yeah, no, no, no.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: There were other places that weren't studios that I think
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: it probably would have played a little bit better, right?
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Where people would not have been like, is that blank?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Like if she was in Central Park, for example. Right.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: They might have been like, oh, what a beautiful day.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: But it would not have gone there. I was just
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: so shocked at how because all of these things become
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: culture wars and they really just become who's on this
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: side of the argument and who's on that side of
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: the argument. Then nobody could say like or have a
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: potential for, you know, maybe I wouldn't done that, but
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: it's not that big a deal. Right. Like everybody's got
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to dig in. But I admit that I am a
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: bit of a stickler about like some of these things.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I saw one of my buddies on television wearing sunglasses
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: doing a hit and I wanted to call him and
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: be like, Hey man, to quote the great Larry David,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: only two kinds of people wear sunglasses inside blind people
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: and assholes.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: This is, this is reminds me of a very awkward
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: moment that I had just a couple months ago where
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I was doing that thing where I just unsolicited offer
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: up one of my hot takes. And one of my
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: hot takes was, I think there's nothing douchier in the
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: world than people that wear sunglasses indoors. I think it's
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: so douchey.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: The person I said that to, I could tell right
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: away that they do it. And they were like, well,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: if it is like compliments and outfit, or sometimes you
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: just want to, I'm like, Oh, do you do that?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but I'm not sorry. I stand by
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: everything I said. It's, I, Beau, am so old school
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that even if I'm outdoors and I'm wearing sunnies, if
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: you start talking to me, I'm going to take them up.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Because I was always taught to look people in the eye.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It's very rude when someone's talking to you to not
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: look them in the eye. So I'm with you. Like,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: sunglasses inside is just so awkward to me. To me,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: it's the physical version of speaking in third person.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. That is the best way to put that. Like,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: And But by now, they're never going to wear no
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: sunglasses inside.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Sunglasses inside is just
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: not a... Unless you're doing the Super Bowl shuffle, right? Right.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: It's not the group, but I'm that guy. I just
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: think there's certain ways you should go about it. I
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: also think something happened. The COVID point, I think, is
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: very interesting because I think that it did change things
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: for a period of time because the context made people
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: a bit more acceptable about of what was going on.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Like this show moved to my house with COVID, for example, right?
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: But I would also make the argument that like COVID
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: allowed me to wear my hair out in 2022, but
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: by 2023, I had to come back home. I was getting,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: the people were giving me a little bit of leeway
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: In 2021 and even in 2022, that was long gone
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: by 2022.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: So the COVID pass is over?
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the COVID pass ended, right? You just made me
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: get on TV, not shaving and shit and everything else
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: because you couldn't go. No, no, no. The context changed.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And I think some of that has also come in
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: with a bit of the production value stuff. For example,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: the production setup on this show since I came to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Wave is much different. than it was when I was
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: at ESPN. And the big thing was if we increase
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: the production value, it becomes easier to sell. And it
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: does in fact, turn up numbers. Like people are inclined
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: to look at it and say, Oh, this looks like
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: more of a professional operation. You'll find people in the
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: YouTube comments who will be critical of the fact that
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: I am shooting this at home. And I'm like, buddy,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: we have, this is an actual fashion studio. Like, yes,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: it is at home, but it's not like I'm sitting
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: here with a laptop, but, but, People's standards have again gone.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: And then we saw people started going back to these studios. Now,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: I am amazed by these regular motherfuckers that got these
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: podcasts that like 87 people listen to. And they are
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: sitting in an actual factual studio doing them. Like, that's
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: where I say that COVID part is over. And I
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: still don't know who's paying for all these podcasts. I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: have no idea who's paying for all these podcasts that
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: nobody's listening to.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, nobody's paying for them. It's very easy.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: But I mean, if you go into a studio, somebody
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: paying for the studio. Sure.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Well, they're paying for it. They're just self-financing. It's like
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: you start a production company, which is very easy to do,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: start an escort, and then everything that you buy for
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: your production company is a write-off. So essentially, they're able
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: to self-fund these things, and they do. There's been some
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: podcasts that catch me. I'm like, this looks great. so
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: professional and you think it's like this big and then
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: you realize they have you know 250 listeners and and
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: you're like wow but they they fool you and then
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: on the other hand you see some podcasts that like
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: do really well and it's just a zoom box it's
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: a zoom two box i don't know what the sweet
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: spot is in terms of production value but i'll lean
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: on you as someone that's been doing your own thing
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: for a long time that like people do care about
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: how it looks more so than just you know the
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: sort of raw dirtiness of look at me, you know,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I'm here and like I'm doing content.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Hold on, I have to, you just said about those
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: people self-funding their podcast. So it made me think about something. Uh-oh. Okay.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: This is going to sound dark in the beginning, but
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I promise it's not. Okay. So like when you were
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: watching them documentaries or them shows or read them stories
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: about Aaron Hernandez, right? Patience. The dude, Odin Lloyd, rest
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: in peace. He played on like the football team. It
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: was just him and his partners and they, you know,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: they got in pads and they played tackle football. I
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: forget the name of the team, but it was made very,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: and all the stories as they built the story of
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Odin Lloyd, they just talked about like how important it
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: was for him to have this team and they were,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: They were really talking about that team like it was
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: the Packers. They was really loaded up on it. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: was like, brother, I could not imagine loving football enough
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: to get out there and play tackle football for the
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: fucking love of the game as a grown-up. You and
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: other grown-ups are out here injuring and maiming each other
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: playing tackle football for no other reason than fun. I
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: can't imagine wanting to do it so bad to pay
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: that price. And that is how I feel about the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: idea of these people self-funding these podcasts. I cannot imagine
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: what I do so bad to spend your own money
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: to do it. Your own, like, I mean, spend your
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: own money. Like if you got a home set up, right.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And you just, you know, we're just getting this thing going.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe you invest in some time or whatever it is.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: But like you said, go into an actual studio, like,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: you love this more than me. And now I need
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: to go look in the mirror and ask myself what
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: kind of man I am. Cause clearly I'm not, I'm
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: not nearly as gangsta about my shit as I thought
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I was. Yeah.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Well, something's clearly missing from your life.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like tackle grown man, tackle football, like maybe
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: not even as bad as like grown man rugby. Cause
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm like, you know, beer league softball teams.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, for all of us after leads, like
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that's the sweet spot. It's a little bit competitive, but
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: you can literally still drink beer while you're doing it.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: It's not that physical and it's fun camaraderie and hanging out.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: But the people that choose like real sports, like physical
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: contact sports for love of the game is so absurd
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: to me. I'm like, you are, how do you explain that?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Like I'm 50 and I tore my ACL because, I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: was playing rugby with the chaps.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Hey, look, man, I have spent the vast majority of
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: my adult life simply trying not to be injured. And
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I was so mad at myself. I was trying to
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: ride a mountain bike in the Dolomites in June and
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: I fell off, landed, broke a bone in my wrist. Right.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But like I'm a Gito. I happened. And that's
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: day that same day. I hiked like nine and a
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: half miles and 50 flights, according to the phone. And
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: for those of you who need context on this, it
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: was kind of like that time T.O. played in the
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Super Bowl. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I felt, at least. I was out there thugging it out.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: It was a long day. I got lost, all that stuff, right?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: But my whole thing, and for those asking what happened,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: I was on an e-motor, modern bike, and I was
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: going down a hill, and I needed to hit the
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: downshift button to help me slow down, and I accidentally
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: hit the other button And so I started going faster
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: and I hit the brake and I felt like I
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: went over the handlebars. Like, I don't know exactly what happened,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: but boom, I hit the ground and I was like, damn,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: here I am injured. And it's been a real fucking
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: hassle to be a single man with a broken right
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: wrist trying to get stuff done at my house.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: You're a whitey too, right?
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, I ain't never wanted lifetime companionship more in
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: my life than I'm watching them dishes just stack up.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Because washing dishes with nothing but your left hand, it's
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: a tough break, man. Try to clean the bathtub with
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: just your left hand. Like all those things, it was
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: not good, right? I went to goddamn summer league and
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I had one of them braces on, right? And that's
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: a DAP-intensive environment, man. I was having to hit people
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: with the real slow, try to DAP to let them know,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: because I was winding up in some awkward moments. I
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: saw Plexiglas Burris outside the park MGM, and he didn't
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: see what happened. And they went to the DAP, and whoo! Buddy,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: strong hands you got there, Mr. Wide Receiver. It's Stefanski,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: former general manager of the Sixers. I think he works
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: for the Suns. I saw him in the elevator, and
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: he didn't seem like a man that would understand the DAP.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: So I just went with the handshake. Ooh!
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, that hurts too, I'm sure.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was tough. It was real tough. It was
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: real tough. And I'm saying all that to say, an
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: ACL tear as a grown-up? Like, I can't believe y'all
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: are hooping and have not transitioned to golf.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Is it awkward when you're a grown-up and you have
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: to explain injuries like that? Because undoubtedly someone looks at
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: your wrist and they go, what happened? And you're like,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I fell off a bike.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Not only that, it's that the assumption, and I think
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: this is maybe as a, well, okay. The assumption, if
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: you are a man and you have these injuries, is
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: that you must have been doing something stupid. Oh, yeah.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: For sure. Parkour. Yes. An injured woman under these circumstances,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: it is a much different level of concern, if you
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Yes. People trying to figure out how to- You were
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: probably doing something brave for your children when you broke
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: your wrist, weren't you?
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people trying to figure out the thing without saying
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: the thing, you know? Like, so, but everything's good. Like,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: you're fine. You're, you know, how are things? Everything's in
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: the house is okay, cool. But yeah, I just don't
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: want to get injured. And so when people are actively
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: in for real athletic activity as grownups, you got to
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: see nuestros hermanos al parque jugando baseball. in Los Fines
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: de Semana in the parques in New York City. Woo! Boy,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: them boys be taking that baseball seriously out there. It's
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: like a real baseball game.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I always imagine, I can't imagine how they women complain
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: about how they ain't got money for X, Y, and Z,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: but they got them jerseys and them bats and everything else.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: And they got to go sit out there 100 degrees
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and cheer for these motherfuckers like it's the National League
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Championship Series.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. I'm like, I see a lot of room for
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: injury in these games, brother.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: My sister is 49 years old and she still plays
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: on like a softball team that by the way, is
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: so competitive that she said to me the other day, yeah,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: in a few weeks we'll be headed to nationals. I
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm sorry, bitch. There's a nationals for 50
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: year old women that play softball.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: What?
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: And I think like, that's why it's, it's, it's funny
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: because that's why I think there's this big move towards pickleball.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: The pickleball is sneaky because people tell you, you can
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: play as a three-year-old and you can play as a
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: 99 year old. But because of that, there is no
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: stretching involved in pickleball. And I have had a couple
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: pickleball matches where I've seen someone tear an Achilles or
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: a brain a knee because they don't, because they still
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: are ultra competitive about it, but they don't do any
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: fucking stretching. And then they shred their quads open.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Biggest fear. Achilles' heel is my biggest fear. Biggest fear.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you this. I know because you played
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: softball when you were younger, right? Do you got that
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: dog in you?
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right. I ain't really got that dog in me.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: I have that dog in me about certain things. It
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: takes a lot for you to push me to the, like,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: like I am a, I'm a like steady determined type. Right.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: But I ain't really got that dog in me. I
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: don't care that much about, I used to have that
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: dog in me and I realized it wasn't making me happy.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: And so I kind of was like, Hey, you just gotta,
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: gotta like do your best. Be happy with that. So
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: forth and so on.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Is there nothing that gets you crazy competitive.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Though, Bo? Oh, it, it, There are things. It just
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: takes a lot to get me to the place. But
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: once I'm there, there's some level of insult that has
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: taken place.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: There it is. If you do a condescension, you're going
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: to eviscerate.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we got to go. But my mama... Uh-oh.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: My mama got that dog in her, right? Like, I
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: grew up, and people who talk about growing up in
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a house where their parents let them win, I don't
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: know nothing about that. Joneses do not traffic in that. Like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: that dog come out in them Scrabble games. Like, we
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: ain't played one in a while, but, like, that's, you know,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: it goes there. So, anyway, my mother, this is 20-something
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: years ago. She is in her 60s when this happens,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: or late 50s, not sure which. She was playing softball.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: on the team. My mother's a Dean of business at
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Alabama A & M. And I think it was the
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: business school had a team in the softball league or whatever.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like I also received this call. I can't remember,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: but it may have just been my brother. Right. And
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: now that I think about it, I think this is
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: the nineties. I think I was in college because I
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: feel like I received this as an answering machine message.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: My mother is at bat. And she got a hold
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: of one. She turned on it. Hit that thing to
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: the outfield. She gets to first base. She rounds second.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: She pulls her hamstring. And she lands. And I want
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: to say she dislocated her shoulder or some similar injury. Right? Right.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's so painful.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I know my dad had a thing where
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: he got in a car wreck and he broke his ankle.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: And I think he either broke something to separate his shoulder,
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: like on opposite sides, right? So he had to be
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: in the wheelchair. He couldn't even crutch it up. But anyway,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: my mom had something similar to that. And I think
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: she called me too, but she called my brother from
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: the ambulance. Because I think they took her in the ambulance.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: And I also think they gave her some dope, right?
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Because these are seriously painful injuries. Oh, yeah. That we're
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: talking about. And she explains to us that she got
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: a hold of that pitch, that she went around first,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: and then she tripped, and then she fell. But the
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: thing that she wanted us to know, that she made
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: it to second base.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: She was safe, too. She got to second base. Now,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the fact that she got to
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: second base safely is because those people were being nice
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: and did not tag her out like I would have.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: But she got to second base. And I just say
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: all that to say, Barbara Jones got that dog in her.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I love that. Like, I think there is nothing better
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: than the competitive nature that compels you to still try
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: to get to the base, even though your body is
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: breaking down in front of you. Like, good for her.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: She's like, I had a singular focus, which was to
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: get to that base and damn it, I was going
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: My all-time Kobe thing is he made those free throws
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: after he tore his Achilles. He made the free throws
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: and walked off, the most impressive thing that he ever did, right?
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, fighting out, Cause my mother's a very nice woman.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: She says a very nice woman with that dog in her,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Mina Kimes, Mina Kimes got that dog in her.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Everything is what she says in pink, Paul, pink,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Paul brings the dog out of her, but you can
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: hear what she tells the stories. It's like, well, no, the.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Dog is, The dog is right there. I don't know
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: that I, I think in general, I'm like pretty competitive.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Like I, I'm that person that sees the feel good
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: social media stories where they're like, this track star fell
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: down and this one guy could have passed him to win,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: but he stopped and carried him to the finish line.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, boo, like you should have ran past
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: him and then came back and helped him after he won.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: But I find that like my kids are crazy, crazy competitive.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: And I keep being told like, you don't want to
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: squash competitive spirit in little kids. It's like much better
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: to have that than the alternative, which is a kid
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: that has no competitive bone at all. But in our house,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: it can get really bad because my parents are really competitive.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: So when we're like in the backyard, just playing stickball
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: with our kids, like my dad's running over my five
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: year old son. Like we do not play when it
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: comes to any games. We all want to win.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: So in our house, it's smarty pants games. And so
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: like I remember when I was a teenager. No, the family. Oh, no,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I ain't nobody. Can't nobody fuck with me. I don't
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: I don't I ain't got it no more. I'm out
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on that, yeah, on
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: that day, wouldn't get the fuck out of here. Wasn't
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: nobody doing that. But we discovered Taboo was a family
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: of my teenage years. And so the thing about Taboo, though,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: was my brother and sister who are my brother's 13
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: years older than me. My sister's 10 years older than me.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: They had a hack, which is they grew up together. Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: So their ability to deviate off the card was amazing,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: and they loved playing taboo. But then I got a
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: little older, and I remember me and my brother wound
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: up on a team against my sister and one of
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: her other English major friends and somebody else. We had
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: a different hack on our team, which was rap music. Yeah. Right.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Like black people are the cheat code for taboo because
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the game is culturally biased. So there are the words
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: that we might use are simply not going to be
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: on the car. Right. So we getting head in the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: book without crashing it. Whip. Keep it going. Right. Like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: this is what we can do. I ain't played a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: game of taboo with my sister since then. And that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: was nearly 30 years ago.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Now the hack had been discovered. you know, I don't
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: even really like playing that game that much anyway. I'm
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: just not competitive.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing is that competitive people will pretend
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: like they're not competitive, but it's just because it's something
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: that they're not good at and they know they have
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: no shot of winning.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: And that's the ultra.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Ultra competitive person is someone that won't even try if
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: they don't think they have a real shot.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Or you just got to, if you are that person,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: you got to regulate the level of investment that you're
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: going to put into this. Because otherwise, man, you're just
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: going to be mad just for the sake of being mad. Like,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I know it's in me. There are a lot of
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: things that are in me that, you know what? Sometimes
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: we just got to tamp that down, keep it cool.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: You know what it means? Like, do you like a
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: good escape room? Ugh.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Not really.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, I love a good escape room. Not really.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I'm a great escape room teammate, though, because I understand
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: the larger group dynamics and as long as everybody can
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: assign themselves a task. But it's nothing worse when you
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: go to the escape room and you get other people
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: who misunderstood. I imagine in their crew, they're the escape
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: room leaders. Yeah, that's the problem.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I'm too type A, Bo, and I can't just.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Feel confident that you're doing your role to get us
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: out of this room. I'm going to want to go
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: double check your shit. And then like, so it's just
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: too much. I can't delegate in those rooms. I don't feel,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I need the control.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: I actually think that they're a great study and people
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: typically figure it out. Like somebody got to go chop
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: up these vegetables. You know what I mean? Go, go
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: get everything set up for, for, but the, but the, the,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: the chef chefs, we over here, you understand what I'm saying? And,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I think that people can often figure it out very quickly,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: but then you get in the escape room and you
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: find the people who'd be like, yeah, this guy was
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: telling me he had gone to an escape hospital. He
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: get deep in the escape room game. I love a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: good escape room though.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: That's not my thing at all. You're an escape room guy.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I would not have thought you to be, are you
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: a puzzles guy? Like you Sudoku and crosswords.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: I am crossword. Sudoku kind of, but not really. But
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I am crossword. I played Spelling Bee every morning. I
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: played a Wordle. I played a Connections game and a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Sports Connection game. Yeah, I actually was a speaker at
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: a puzzle convention in Mohawk, New York, a couple years ago.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Wait, there's a puzzle convention?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: There's a puzzle convention, boy. I had a very good
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: time there. Now, let's be clear. I was by far
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: the coolest motherfucker there. There's no disputing that part. But
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I also met a couple that had a website called
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: escape room artist dot com, I believe. And they go
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: check out escape rooms all around the world. Their presentation
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: was incredible. I learned a whole lot about escape rooms
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: from talking to them. And the next time I go
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: to the Netherlands, the Netherlands apparently has the bomb escape rooms.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: I would like to try one of those there. Now,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: my solo travel thing makes that a little difficult. You
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying? But I enjoy, yeah, I like
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: getting my logic on in there, in those sorts of settings.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a great point. What do you, like, if
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: you wanted to hit one of these fire escape rooms,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: but you were traveling solo, would you, like, stand outside
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: like a solicitor and try to team up with other people?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Would you put it out on, like, a Reddit post?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: The question I would have is, because normally when you
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: do the escape room, there's, like, a group of people.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Like it's you and then others. So if I could
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: be certain that other people were going to be there, yeah,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I'd pull up by myself. No problem. And I guarantee
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you this, by the time it was over, they'd be saying, aye, aye.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: When I told them to do something, you know what
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: I mean? Hey, go get that, check that out. Aye, aye, captain.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I bet you it would
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: go down like that.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. If it was possible that
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: you could do it alone, is it an accomplishment or
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: is it kind of pathetic to do an escape room
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: by yourself?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: I'll do just about anything by myself. Like, that's the thing.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I've been all over the world by myself. I've spent
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: time in four different continents by myself. I'll go anywhere
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: by myself. However, I have had that exact thought. I
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: have wondered that, like, you pull up to the escape
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: room for Dolo, like, what that look like?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think solo traveling is such a thing.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: When I got older, I would force myself to go
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: and take myself out to dinner by myself and go
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: to a movie by myself. I'm with you on all that.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: But I do wonder if you go to an escape
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: room by yourself, if you become that guy who, to
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: all the workers there, you're that pathetic guy that is
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: back at the escape room by himself.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: So here's what I would think about that. I think
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: that if a lot of people pulled up like that,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: they would think that. I think they would be a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: little more confused by the fact that it was me. Like,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they have a lot of people who do that.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And I, the resemblance between me and them.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: They look like a prototype.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That resemblance, like, might not exactly be it.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: The other point that I would like to make is, and,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's no nice way to say this. Uh-oh. Yes,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: person that works at the escape room, judge me. Keep going.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Say more. Let me know when it's my turn to go. Dude.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: You literally read my mind. As I was saying it,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, at the end of the day,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I will say that is my, it can sound snobby
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: or condescending or any of those things. It doesn't come
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: from that place. I worked in retail. I did all
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: those jobs too. But there is nothing that grinds my
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: gears more than when you go into a luxury spot
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: or a whatever type of spot and the people that
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: work there judge you based on whether they think you
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: can afford to shop there. And I'm like, you can't
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: fucking afford to shop here. Why are you judging me?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: You work here. Your name is not Bergdorf Goodman.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: You work here. Let me tell you, no matter what.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Why are you judging me? Why are you being a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: snob to me? Like, not to sound like pretty woman,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: but like, big mistake. I'm just saying. And like, it's
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: always befuddled the mind when you're in these luxury spaces,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: luxury hotels, whatever. I've been fortunate enough to be in those.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I know you have too. And the people are snobby
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like, see, I'll be noticing. I can't, I can't
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: notice nothing though. I will tell you this guy, this
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: is going to sound so 1%, but what benefit of
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: using a travel agent is it cuts down on a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: lot of that.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, the shenanigans.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Cause there's somebody, there's some intermediary that has vouched
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: for you in some form of fashion and they can't,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: you know, like, like you kind of get that, but look,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: no matter what it is, not even on that luxury,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: it could be on low, whatever it is at the
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: end of the day, The thing that is going to
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: be the same when I walk in here and when
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I walk out of here is I am always going
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: to be me and you are always going to be you.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: No matter what that means, no matter who you are,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: no matter how you choose to interpret that, that is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: the immutable fact. Nobody can ever make me feel shaky
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: on any of that stuff because no matter what it is,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I am who I am and you are who you
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: are and both of us are going to have to
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: deal with that. That was LeBron. Hey, man, after this,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go back to my life. You're going
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: to go back to your life. And all them hit
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: dogs started screaming all over the place. He said, we
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: was broke. Nah, your broke ass just don't know how
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to pay the rent. He didn't say that.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: It was at the top of your mind, right? Like
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: I've been meditating and it is interesting to meditate because
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: what you learn is what your background apps are. Like
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: the thoughts that you drift to. Like I learned that
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: I have unplanned things. That's what runs in the back.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Those are the background apps for me is try to
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: go like set. Oh, I got something to do this weekend,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: something to figure out. Right. That's what I do. Some
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: of y'all background apps, boy, man, maybe setting off that
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: virus scan. You understand what I'm saying? Maybe, maybe, maybe
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: corrupting your hard drives, boy. That's what happened when LeBron
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: did that. Like some people show up and they be
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: sending them, sending people background apps. Haywire. That's what happens
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: when you walk in that nice place and that man
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: and man or woman start talking to you crazy. I
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: ever tell you about what I bought the Rolex? God,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: I know how this sounds. But anyway, I would just
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: tell this story and it would go. So this is
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: when I lived in Miami and it was the first
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: time I had gotten like a capital C contract, I
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: would say. And so I decided I was going to
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: go get a watch. So it's New Year's Eve, 2016.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I'm with my girlfriend at the time. And we walk
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: into the Rolex store. And it's this woman and it's
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: this man. And the man elbowed the woman when I
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: walked in. Like, you got this one. So I get
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: in there and I look at a watch. It's a
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: very nice watch. And the woman says to me, Oh,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: you're looking at that watch. I was like, yeah, tell
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: me about that. She says, yes, that is very nice.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: It only comes in the platinum. And I was like,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: how much does it cost? She says, that is $ 84, 000.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I was like, hey, what about that watch? I was
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: trying to pivot without giving the game away. I was like, ooh,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that's how much these things cost. And
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: then I got back into the family of ones that
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: seemed like a thing to me. And I wound up
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: making the purchase. And so they do this obnoxious thing
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: at the Rolex store. When you buy a watch, they say, congratulations.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not the one getting the commission. Right.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: You know? And so they're like, congrats. So that's what
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: they do. They say, congratulations, man. First person say congratulations
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: to me was elbow man. He's walked past me. Cause
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: they also, they bring you a glass of champagne. Of course.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Elbow man's like, congratulations. That could have been your money.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Big dog.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Hit him back with that pretty woman. Big mistake. You
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: work off commission, right? Big mistake.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, if I worked at a watch store
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: in Miami and a six foot three black man walked
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: in looking for a watch, I would assume maybe he
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: hooped or did something like that. All the time somebody
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: asks me if I play basketball and it's not you.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: You ain't about this money.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: But my thing is, Beau, like you don't even have
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: to make any assumptions in a job like that. You
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: are maybe making a couple of sales a week because
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: it's just right. Like that's not people don't come in
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: and buy Rolexes. You're not selling five, six rollies a day.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: It's just not happening. And so you should treat every
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: single person as potential commission because you don't know when
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: that next commission is coming. So ultimately, but I will
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: say there is nothing more humbling. than like being that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: person that's like yeah you know i got a little
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: bit of money like i i like let me build
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: up my confidence i belong at this store you know
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: these people and their judgment i belong at this bitch
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: i could buy this bitch then you walk in and
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: you start looking at price tags and you're like oh
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: my god no.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Look that's what living for miami living in miami for
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: four years was correct i always tell this story i
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: lived on 50th and collins i lived in miami And
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: I could look across the intercoastal waterway, and there were
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: the houses, right? You know, there's people at the condos,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: and the money's in the houses. The houses aren't on
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: the beach, though. The houses are on the waterway. And
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: I saw this cat man across the way, man, his boat. Man,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: that boat was fire. And I would wake up every morning,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: and I could look at that boat from my balcony.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: And then I would think about every day how that
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: guy would get up. And when he went out on
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: his port, he wasn't looking at that boat. He was
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: looking at that next man's boat that was just shitting
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: all over his boat. It was a whole different class
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: of caliber boat that that man had over there. And
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: it was a metaphor for life, man. You never keep up. Ever.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: You can never keep up. Like if that's your goal,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: if that's what you try to prove, you'll never prove it.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: Somebody going to test you in the next stop you make.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I go to this conference every year in
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Sun Valley. which is like the wealthiest of the wealthy
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: of the wealthy. They're allowed to go. I only go
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: because I do panels. It's not because I'm a person
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: of note. But when you talk about there's always someone
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: that has more, I'll never forget being at a dinner.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: And of course, I'm flying domestic with my family. We're
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: flying Delta to Boise and then driving two and a
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: half hours to Sun Valley. And I'm sitting at this
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: table with all of these people. And I'm like, when
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: are you guys getting out of here tomorrow? Because it's
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the last night. And they're like, whatever. We'll probably, I
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: don't know. We'll figure it out. Maybe sometime after lunch.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm remembering these motherfuckers all fly private. They don't
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: have a time that they leave. They just leave whenever
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: they want. And I'm over here like, we leave at
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: 3.05 PM.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: To make our 5.15 bus.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: But then, to your point, at this same table, the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: conversation starts. I am now excluded from this conversation. This
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: is private jet conversation. And the people amongst them start
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: talking and they're like, well, we got to get out
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: of here before this guy does because his jet is bigger.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: And the rule of thumb is at private airports, bigger
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: the jet, first in line. If you got a big boy,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: you get to go first. And so they were all
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: talking about their strategy of when to leave so that
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: they could get out before the big jets decided to
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: make their way to the runway, at which point they
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: would have to all wait. And I'm like, So not
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: only do some of these people own private planes, but
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: then there is a hierarchy of those that own private planes.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: If you have a jet, it's like, it is absurd.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: When I first got on at ESPN, I had dinner
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: with a very prominent person at the network whom I
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: will leave unnamed. And that person was explaining to me
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: how he had been told when he got on, don't
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: buy the house that you can afford. buy the house
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: that you want because you're going to be able to
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: afford it. And he talks about how he instead bought
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: the house that he could afford and how he regretted
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: it and wished that he had bought the house that
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: he wanted. And his lesson to me was to buy
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: the house that you wanted. And I want to be clear.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: That was the worst advice anybody ever gave me. And
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: I did not take it. And that is the best
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: decision I ever made was to not take that ridiculous advice.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: The fuck are you talking about? Like my mind still
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: isn't in this place.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: I need you to text me right now who that
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: was so that I can laugh at the- I'll.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Tell you this though, when I tell you, and just
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: for people, it's not who they think I'm talking about.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: But you're going to see it and be like, oh yeah,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I can see it. Right? Right? Right? Really? I mean,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: for him, it worked out. 100%.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, that advice from him totally makes sense because this
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: person is a person that has had so much longevity.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: For me, it was not a straight line. No. Like,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: it was... People be saying wild shit. That's all I
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: got to say.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Some of the advice.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Right, right. And now, as I put down my glass
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: where my pinky has been up as we have gone
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: through this entire discussion, though I did try to humble
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: myself in it, this is Elle Duncan, whom you can
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: find at Netflix Sports doing amazing, super cool things, whom
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: I need to catch up with and whom I am
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: always so glad and grateful that she gives us her time.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: I love you, Bo. You're the absolute best. Catch me
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: on Iowa. I'll be hanging out in a cornfield in
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Iowa next week.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're field of dreaming.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: Field of dreams. So check us out next week if
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: you can.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I tell you, I can't wait for your memoirs
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: about the first year of the Netflix tour.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, the places I've seen?
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. There we go. Thank you so much.
• 1:17:11
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• 1:17:13
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• 1:17:32
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