Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 532: College hoops scheduling, IU's outlook and more with Rocco Miller

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POTB 532: College hoops scheduling, IU's outlook and more with Rocco Miller · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
0:20
Speaker 1: It's Friday, July twenty fifth. College troops probably not top
0:24
Speaker 1: of mind for a lot of fan bases throughout the country,
0:28
Speaker 1: but Indiana basketball it's three hundred and sixty five days
0:31
Speaker 1: a year. Good to be back for a third straight
0:33
Speaker 1: week with an episode of podcasts on'll. Before we get
0:35
Speaker 1: to today's guests, wanted to ask, if you have a
0:38
Speaker 1: moment and you enjoy the show, please leave us a
0:40
Speaker 1: rating and a review over on Apple Podcasts. Leave us
0:42
Speaker 1: a five star rating on Spotify. That helps more people
0:45
Speaker 1: who might be searching for college basketball podcasts ie Basketball
0:48
Speaker 1: podcast discover the show. So we do appreciate that support.
0:52
Speaker 1: This week's episode. Good friend of the show Roco Miller.
0:56
Speaker 1: He was on back in the spring before we knew
0:58
Speaker 1: what was going to happen with the Indiana coaching situation.
1:00
Speaker 1: At that point, I think we had some discussion about
1:03
Speaker 1: the Indiana bubble case for the tournament. Turns out the
1:08
Speaker 1: Hoosiers didn't make the tournament, but we already knew at
1:10
Speaker 1: that point that a new coach was going to be
1:12
Speaker 1: brought in. Hoosiers bring in Darren Devrees, who Rocko is
1:18
Speaker 1: familiar with covering him a little bit during his time
1:21
Speaker 1: at Drake and Rocco. I like to have him on
1:23
Speaker 1: because he just kind of has a lot of insight
1:27
Speaker 1: in a lot of different areas of college basketball scheduling,
1:30
Speaker 1: and we do a lot of ton of work with
1:32
Speaker 1: mid majors bracketology. So we're just gonna bounce around and
1:36
Speaker 1: have a fun conversation here on a Friday in July. Rocco,
1:40
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. How you doing. Also for
1:43
Speaker 1: those of you watching us on YouTube, you may notice
1:45
Speaker 1: he's kind of here in a coffee shop, maybe an
1:50
Speaker 1: uncommon location, but having some work done at his house
1:54
Speaker 1: and didn't want to have too much noise. So if
1:56
Speaker 1: you hear any jostling or noise in background, if you're
2:00
Speaker 1: just listened to the audio version, Rocko's safe. He's just
2:04
Speaker 1: in a just in a coffee shop here. How you doing?
2:07
Speaker 2: Rocco audio comes through well for the audio listeners.
2:15
Speaker 3: Always get to be back on with you, Alex. Things
2:18
Speaker 3: are going well overall, working on a lot. In fact,
2:21
Speaker 3: it's kind of crazy to me, but sometimes I sit
2:25
Speaker 3: back and now we're July twenty fifth, feels like it
2:28
Speaker 3: was just the final four for me because things get
2:31
Speaker 3: super busy each day with numerous phone calls and trying
2:35
Speaker 3: to make things happen schedule wise. You know, I try
2:39
Speaker 3: to play a hand in all thirty one league scheduling.
2:43
Speaker 3: In some cases it's a lot heavier, like leagues like
2:46
Speaker 3: the Missouri Valley where Darian Devrees started in.
2:49
Speaker 2: Twenty nineteen as a head coach.
2:51
Speaker 3: And you know, because they need the most help, right
2:54
Speaker 3: they get stuck and teams don't want to play them.
2:56
Speaker 3: And over all, so originally this all started, we're trying
2:59
Speaker 3: to help those teams get large opportunities. As we found
3:02
Speaker 3: out in these last couple of selection Sundays, it's.
3:07
Speaker 2: Not so easy for them to get bids at all.
3:09
Speaker 3: And and yeah, and based on Indiana where they where
3:12
Speaker 3: they were.
3:13
Speaker 2: Last year, at least it's a fresh start. Obviously frustrating.
3:17
Speaker 3: I thought they certainly did more than North Carolina and
3:20
Speaker 3: Texas to get involved, to be included, I should say,
3:23
Speaker 3: for the tournament. But I think we all knew they
3:25
Speaker 3: were right there on the cutoff, and turns out there
3:28
Speaker 3: like the first or second team out. But fresh start here,
3:31
Speaker 3: and I think everybody's gonna love watching the way Darien
3:34
Speaker 3: Devriese coaches endgame strategically and uses his different pieces, So
3:39
Speaker 3: I'm excited for the Hoosiers.
3:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, the scheduling stuff, and we send direct messages back
3:44
Speaker 1: and forth on Twitter in the summer. I'm always asking like,
3:47
Speaker 1: what are you hearing from an IU perspective, And I
3:49
Speaker 1: think in years past you had some nuggets. Maybe not
3:51
Speaker 1: as much this year because it seemed like with Indiana,
3:55
Speaker 1: we kind of knew some of the bigger games that
3:57
Speaker 1: they were gonna have on their schedule and then they
3:58
Speaker 1: just dropped the non conference schedule all at once. The
4:02
Speaker 1: scheduling piece fascinates me from the standpoint of a lot
4:05
Speaker 1: of programs do things differently, So I'm curious, like, at
4:08
Speaker 1: a high level your role in terms of trying to
4:11
Speaker 1: help facilitate schedules around the country, what do you do
4:16
Speaker 1: in kind of what are maybe some of the challenges
4:18
Speaker 1: from the high major perspective and then also from the
4:20
Speaker 1: mid and the low major perspective.
4:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. But I think
4:26
Speaker 3: for me, like these last four or five cycles, I've
4:31
Speaker 3: started heavily with the event space. Several events are searching
4:36
Speaker 3: for teams at all levels. Obviously, it starts at the
4:40
Speaker 3: Players Era now with the eighteen or so teams that
4:43
Speaker 3: are going there, and then that's really diminished the marketplace
4:48
Speaker 3: for power fives. Like you'll see the Maui Invitational field
4:51
Speaker 3: this year. They do have Texas and NC State and USC,
4:55
Speaker 3: but it's not nearly the names that you're used to
4:58
Speaker 3: seeing with teams like Washington State State, Arizona State going there.
5:03
Speaker 3: Battle for Atlanta, you could say the same thing really
5:05
Speaker 3: took a step back with you know, two American Conference
5:09
Speaker 3: teams in that this year and only holding onto a
5:12
Speaker 3: handful of power fives in their event, and it trickles
5:15
Speaker 3: down from there. So with the model that we've all
5:18
Speaker 3: been playing by the rules with in the ns doa A,
5:21
Speaker 3: it's been either the twenty eight regular games plus three
5:25
Speaker 3: in your event or the twenty nine plus two in
5:28
Speaker 3: your event, and that's how teams can get up to
5:30
Speaker 3: their thirty one games. But then there's several schools like
5:33
Speaker 3: if they're not playing the Players Era, they can leverage
5:36
Speaker 3: their event for different opportunities. So like in Indiana's case,
5:40
Speaker 3: it's not too uncommon. We've got a few examples of
5:43
Speaker 3: this around the country. They'll play a Marquee game with Marquette.
5:46
Speaker 3: Build an MTE around that. Indiana gets Milwaukee at home
5:51
Speaker 3: and Marquette gets Little Rock at home, and that game
5:54
Speaker 3: in Chicago will help generate some NIL dollars. At least
5:57
Speaker 3: that's the plan when it got when it got put together.
6:00
Speaker 3: You'll see that with Huisville and Cincinnati this year. You'll
6:03
Speaker 3: see it with Texas A and M and Florida State
6:04
Speaker 3: this year. So there's a lot of different ways to
6:07
Speaker 3: skin the mt CAT these days, and that's really kind
6:11
Speaker 3: of changed the way the marketplace works. And then the
6:15
Speaker 3: rule is for those a little bit unfamiliar with it,
6:19
Speaker 3: each team can only play in one event unless you
6:22
Speaker 3: play in Hawai Whwa I can play in multiple So
6:26
Speaker 3: there's just this huge cat and mouse game that goes
6:29
Speaker 3: on for several months. It's still going on today on
6:32
Speaker 3: July twenty fifth, for some teams to who's going where
6:35
Speaker 3: do they have one yet?
6:36
Speaker 2: Are they playing in one? Can we go get them?
6:39
Speaker 3: And if you can believe it, there's still a couple
6:41
Speaker 3: events I'm helping with that need a couple of teams.
6:44
Speaker 3: So the phone calls never stop, even just within that
6:47
Speaker 3: one little bubble of games that you find for the schedule.
6:51
Speaker 3: I think where I'm different than pretty much anybody else
6:55
Speaker 3: out there doing scheduling is when I talk to staffs
6:59
Speaker 3: at any level, at the power five level all the
7:01
Speaker 3: way down to the very low major level, is I'm
7:04
Speaker 3: doing a full more of a consulting level approach. We're
7:07
Speaker 3: talking about all the games in November and December, how
7:10
Speaker 3: the puzzle pieces fit together. You know, if you're playing
7:13
Speaker 3: a couple of hard games in a row, do you
7:15
Speaker 3: build an.
7:16
Speaker 2: Easy game in between?
7:18
Speaker 3: You know, things of that nature, right, so that there's
7:21
Speaker 3: a lot of logic and predictability within that. And so
7:26
Speaker 3: it's helped me kind of learn different ways to go
7:29
Speaker 3: about a schedule and different things I can offer to
7:32
Speaker 3: a program that would make sense. You know, I basically
7:35
Speaker 3: kind of act as a filter for the staffs before
7:40
Speaker 3: even presenting them an option.
7:41
Speaker 2: So I think, I think I help.
7:43
Speaker 3: Them that way where we're not wasting each other's time.
7:46
Speaker 3: And then you would be surprised. But even on games
7:50
Speaker 3: like you know, it didn't really happen for Indiana this
7:52
Speaker 3: year because they're a brand new staff and projected in
7:55
Speaker 3: the forties, I think on Torvik, but everybody's looking at
7:58
Speaker 3: that stuff every day and scheduled, and so I think
8:01
Speaker 3: for them they were able to get the teams like
8:04
Speaker 3: linden Wood and Alabama and m and between.
8:06
Speaker 2: Cook in Chicago State.
8:07
Speaker 3: Everybody's going to overlook those games, maybe even give in
8:10
Speaker 3: India a little bit of a hard time for not
8:12
Speaker 3: playing tougher teams. But in scheduling, those are like some
8:16
Speaker 3: of the teams that are really really hard to get
8:18
Speaker 3: with a heavy price tag. And there's a ton of
8:20
Speaker 3: competition for them too. So all of it's pretty fascinating,
8:24
Speaker 3: you know, to be involved with that.
8:25
Speaker 2: Day to day. Why is it.
8:29
Speaker 1: That those teams are hard to get even though their
8:31
Speaker 1: ranks so low in some of the metrics.
8:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think they know what they're worth, and
8:37
Speaker 3: I think they know that they're both they're looking at
8:40
Speaker 3: the same data as the high majors are looking at.
8:43
Speaker 3: And so you know, for example, I talked to a
8:45
Speaker 3: Swax school last night and they will not even take
8:48
Speaker 3: a phone call if the offer's not at least one
8:50
Speaker 3: hundred thousand in guarantee money.
8:52
Speaker 2: And you know, I basically told them, I don't blame you.
8:54
Speaker 3: You should be probably getting that because power fives right now,
8:58
Speaker 3: whether it's the SEC to Big ten, to ACC even
9:01
Speaker 3: Big East and H and Big twelve. They're all able
9:05
Speaker 3: to pay that the going rates probably between one hundred
9:08
Speaker 3: and twenty for this year or so. Yeah, so they
9:12
Speaker 3: know what they're worth. So basically, if you're Chicago State,
9:15
Speaker 3: you can call everybody around you and and get the
9:19
Speaker 3: money you need. Uh and then you just got to
9:21
Speaker 3: slot in the dates like it's tetris tetris.
9:24
Speaker 2: So it's interesting.
9:27
Speaker 1: Let me ask you one question because you mentioned the
9:29
Speaker 1: Players only it's at the Players Festival thing that's in
9:33
Speaker 1: Vegas kind of right, and you mentioned it's impact on
9:38
Speaker 1: Mali and the Battle for Atlantis. I mean, the Indiana
9:43
Speaker 1: was in the Battle for Atlantis last year. I know
9:45
Speaker 1: there's been talk of maybe a return in the future
9:48
Speaker 1: to going back to Mali. Is this just kind of
9:51
Speaker 1: a you know, maybe a one or two three year
9:54
Speaker 1: thing where these events are maybe down or is this
9:58
Speaker 1: something that you foresee, like as a long term problem
10:00
Speaker 1: for events like Battle for Atlantis and Malley And are
10:03
Speaker 1: they doing anything with those events to maybe try to
10:07
Speaker 1: make themselves more attractive to these teams so that they
10:10
Speaker 1: can prop themselves up back in the future. Because you
10:13
Speaker 1: think about the future. You know, I've been watching Malley
10:15
Speaker 1: for since I was a kid. It's been a great event,
10:18
Speaker 1: and then obviously Battle for Atlantis more recent, but in
10:21
Speaker 1: the last you know, five to ten years, it's become
10:23
Speaker 1: one of the staples too of that Thanksgiving week college
10:27
Speaker 1: basketball fans tuning into those And now you have this
10:30
Speaker 1: this deal in Las Vegas, which I'm not saying it's
10:32
Speaker 1: a bad thing for the sport by any means. You
10:34
Speaker 1: get all those great teams together, but it seems like
10:36
Speaker 1: it's maybe diminishing these these events, as you said, And
10:39
Speaker 1: is there any hope to kind of get those things
10:41
Speaker 1: back in better standing in the future.
10:44
Speaker 3: Well, that's a terrific segue kind of into the next
10:47
Speaker 3: chapter of scheduling, which begins with the twenty twenty six
10:51
Speaker 3: twenty seven season, and it's I think CBS has written
10:55
Speaker 3: a piece about it, but it's been known to in
10:57
Speaker 3: the business since at least March, maybe since January that
11:02
Speaker 3: we're going to go to thirty two games regardless of
11:05
Speaker 3: if you're in an event or not, starting next year.
11:08
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I think on the surface, a lot.
11:10
Speaker 3: Of people are reacting to like that's the end of
11:13
Speaker 3: events don't mean needs to flay them anymore.
11:15
Speaker 2: What are these companies going to do?
11:17
Speaker 3: But I also think there's another way to think about
11:19
Speaker 3: it to where it actually opens more doors for teams
11:23
Speaker 3: to get their thirty two games.
11:25
Speaker 2: One of the key factors at least for next.
11:28
Speaker 3: Year we'll see if this changes over the years, is
11:31
Speaker 3: the calendar's not changing, So you know, why wouldn't you
11:34
Speaker 3: max out your thirty two games for most programs they're
11:37
Speaker 3: going to And with the calendar not changing, you're adding
11:41
Speaker 3: an extra game. So how are you going to do
11:43
Speaker 3: that in November and December when we only have about
11:45
Speaker 3: seven weeks? Most schools only have six because they have
11:48
Speaker 3: finals to toy around with. And one of the ways
11:52
Speaker 3: you can do that is you can come to these destinations. Obviously,
11:56
Speaker 3: the players Era is not going anywhere to paying a
11:58
Speaker 3: million dollars a team show up, so that's that's certainly
12:02
Speaker 3: not going anywhere. And I think at places like Maui
12:06
Speaker 3: in Atlantis now, and you know we're talking even with
12:09
Speaker 3: places like.
12:10
Speaker 2: The Cancun Challenge and and uh.
12:12
Speaker 3: Stuff popping up in Aruba, Cayman Islands, UH stuff in Florida.
12:16
Speaker 3: So theoretically we can set these up now on any
12:21
Speaker 3: given weekend.
12:21
Speaker 2: They don't necessarily have to be Thanksgiving.
12:24
Speaker 3: Now, I think the bigger ones, like you mentioned Maui
12:26
Speaker 3: and Battle for Atlantis, they can actually make a little
12:28
Speaker 3: bit of a comeback because even if a team is
12:32
Speaker 3: signed up for the Players ERA, there's nothing to stopping
12:35
Speaker 3: them from going and playing in Maui or Atlantis unless
12:38
Speaker 3: the dates are the same, then of course they can't
12:40
Speaker 3: play in both. But if you spread these dates around, uh,
12:44
Speaker 3: you can actually have h You can play in as
12:46
Speaker 3: many of these as you want, and you can show
12:49
Speaker 3: up and the way I'm introducing it, and we'll see
12:52
Speaker 3: ultimately it'll be up to the owners and organizers set
12:55
Speaker 3: of set events. But my idea would be just get
12:59
Speaker 3: get those locations locked in for four to five days.
13:02
Speaker 3: A team can come down and play once. They could
13:05
Speaker 3: play three, they can play two, So it doesn't you know.
13:09
Speaker 3: I think for the fan, we all want to see
13:10
Speaker 3: a bracket and a natural you know like that. Now
13:13
Speaker 3: we Battle for Atlantis have always been, but that's already
13:16
Speaker 3: been starting to go away kind of across most events
13:19
Speaker 3: you see, like what Vegas has, it's just a lineup
13:22
Speaker 3: of games each day, and I think from talking to
13:25
Speaker 3: enough power fives in the last three months, that's pretty
13:28
Speaker 3: much what you're gonna start seeing.
13:30
Speaker 2: But I think on the on the flip.
13:32
Speaker 3: Side, the good news is you can still get a
13:34
Speaker 3: couple of games in multiple destinations, which would be really
13:37
Speaker 3: exciting for fans and kind of help save the events.
13:40
Speaker 2: So that's the lass half full outlook for the future.
13:43
Speaker 3: Now we have to see how the teams behave from
13:46
Speaker 3: here on, how much they want to take on.
13:49
Speaker 1: Is this bad news for the possibility of getting like
13:54
Speaker 1: more home and home games potentially in the non conference
14:00
Speaker 1: of the season between like major programs, because obviously Indiana
14:04
Speaker 1: Kentucky are gonna be playing the next couple of years,
14:06
Speaker 1: or some neutral games sprinkled in there. But you mentioned
14:10
Speaker 1: the ability that these teams can now go playing multiple events.
14:12
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking they're also going to want some home
14:15
Speaker 1: buy games sprinkled in there. So it makes me wonder
14:18
Speaker 1: do some of these marquee games with major programs home
14:23
Speaker 1: and homes, do those get squeezed out as time goes on.
14:26
Speaker 3: You know, at at Indiana's level, I don't think so,
14:29
Speaker 3: because I think they've figured out a way to generate
14:31
Speaker 3: a lot of revenue with local Marquee games, whether that's
14:34
Speaker 3: a home and home, whether that's a game at the
14:35
Speaker 3: United Center like Marquette this year or in game Bridge
14:38
Speaker 3: with Louisville this year, those are big time games.
14:41
Speaker 2: They're gonna sell out. It's all about business.
14:44
Speaker 3: And dollars at this point in college sports, as you know,
14:47
Speaker 3: and so there's there's they're gonna have like a bunch
14:51
Speaker 3: of options, but the top options will always be which
14:55
Speaker 3: ones can bring revenue back into their program and and help,
14:59
Speaker 3: you know, do every anything you need to do, get
15:01
Speaker 3: players pay, you know, pay for your program, et cetera.
15:04
Speaker 3: So I don't think those are going anywhere. Those have
15:07
Speaker 3: proven to be very highly successful at Indiana's level at
15:10
Speaker 3: least now. I think when you go down to like
15:13
Speaker 3: a Missouri Valley level and they're having a hard time
15:15
Speaker 3: getting games, this format could actually help those types of
15:19
Speaker 3: teams egg get a harder schedule, but be be able
15:23
Speaker 3: to get a couple different weekend scheduled where they can
15:25
Speaker 3: play two to three games in a weekend and if
15:28
Speaker 3: they need fourteen non conference games, you know, they can
15:31
Speaker 3: knock out six in a matter of.
15:32
Speaker 2: Six days between two different weekends.
15:35
Speaker 3: So I think that's where it's going to be pretty
15:37
Speaker 3: popular to go to maybe multiple destinations, but a team
15:40
Speaker 3: like Indiana, of course, or any Marquee Power.
15:43
Speaker 2: Five team, they'll have no no shortage of options, shifting gears.
15:48
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned before we hit record here that
15:51
Speaker 1: you covered Darren Devrees summit at Drake. I think you
15:56
Speaker 1: said you went to at least one Drake game a
15:58
Speaker 1: year for several seasons in a row. Just you know,
16:02
Speaker 1: you what's it been like maybe to kind of watch
16:05
Speaker 1: his progression in the business. Obviously, spend a long long
16:09
Speaker 1: time at Creighton as an assistant coach under under McDermott,
16:13
Speaker 1: gets his opportunity at Drake, you know, goes to West
16:15
Speaker 1: Virginia for a year. Now at Indiana. That's a pretty significant,
16:19
Speaker 1: you know, climb in the profession from where he started
16:22
Speaker 1: out at Drake and where that program was to now
16:25
Speaker 1: being here at Indiana. Just I guess maybe a two
16:29
Speaker 1: part question, are you surprised at all that he's been
16:33
Speaker 1: able to rise this much this quickly? And what are
16:38
Speaker 1: maybe your impressions of him as a coach and his
16:40
Speaker 1: chances to succeed in Bloomington.
16:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm not too surprised.
16:47
Speaker 3: I'm a little surprised he only was at West Virginia
16:49
Speaker 3: for one year, especially a year where you know, they
16:53
Speaker 3: ultimately got locked out of the tournament.
16:55
Speaker 2: Much like Indiana too much chagrin.
16:58
Speaker 3: Of the Mountaineer faithful, but obviously you get an opportunity
17:01
Speaker 3: to work at a place at Indiana, it's one of
17:04
Speaker 3: the best premier jobs in the country. Certainly not for everybody,
17:08
Speaker 3: but I think with Devreze's temperament, I mean, he's a
17:12
Speaker 3: super humble guy. He's never going to be a pump
17:15
Speaker 3: his chest ego type of coach.
17:19
Speaker 2: He's a player's first coach. He's extremely organized. You know.
17:23
Speaker 2: One of the things that impressed me.
17:24
Speaker 3: You know, he was an assistant at Creighton for twenty years,
17:27
Speaker 3: and so he applied for the Drake job three times
17:31
Speaker 3: over those twenty years. It was his dream job, being
17:34
Speaker 3: from the area, and finally got it in twenty nineteen.
17:38
Speaker 3: I was very intrigued by that because at the time
17:40
Speaker 3: Drake was really down his program towards the.
17:42
Speaker 2: Bottom of the in the valley. I had just, for whatever.
17:45
Speaker 3: Reason, kind of always wanted them to be better because
17:49
Speaker 3: Northern Iowa's had so many great teams and then of
17:51
Speaker 3: course you got the two big of Iowa schools. I
17:55
Speaker 3: was spending some time in Des Moines during that era
17:58
Speaker 3: as well of my life, so I wanted to see
18:00
Speaker 3: a good team. So when I got to see him
18:02
Speaker 3: that first year in twenty nineteen, I was blown away
18:05
Speaker 3: just by how organized they were. If you know, they
18:08
Speaker 3: were running basically McDermott McDermott style creating offense back at
18:12
Speaker 3: a time when not nearly like a lower percentage of
18:16
Speaker 3: tool for doing that. Still you see it everywhere now,
18:19
Speaker 3: like with the Alabama's, the Byus.
18:21
Speaker 2: Et cetera.
18:22
Speaker 3: But he's kind of had those principles since day one
18:25
Speaker 3: at Drake, and then I think by twenty twenty three
18:29
Speaker 3: he was able to really figure out defense and how
18:32
Speaker 3: to recruit his roster for run protection and be organized defensively.
18:36
Speaker 3: Drake had a top forty defense in that twenty twenty
18:39
Speaker 3: three year when they won the Valley that year, and
18:43
Speaker 3: of course followed that up with the top seventy five
18:45
Speaker 3: defense the year after, mixed in with the top forty offense.
18:48
Speaker 3: It's really really hard to do in this era of
18:51
Speaker 3: college basketball at that level. And then I think when
18:55
Speaker 3: West Virginia was healthy last year, there was no question
18:58
Speaker 3: they were not only a tournament team, but probably trending
19:00
Speaker 3: towards the top six to seven seed. Struggled without degrees
19:05
Speaker 3: of course after those first eight games, but Jabon Small
19:08
Speaker 3: was absolutely tremendous, and you could certainly make the argument
19:12
Speaker 3: they did enough to get included. So I've been impressed
19:14
Speaker 3: with basically all the different adversity they've faced, you know,
19:19
Speaker 3: through those six years at Drake and last year at
19:21
Speaker 3: West Virginia. You know, they came up with a huge
19:24
Speaker 3: win at fog Allen last year and I think, you know,
19:29
Speaker 3: shocked everybody. They had a game against Iowa State. I
19:32
Speaker 3: think that sticks out the most to me last year
19:34
Speaker 3: when they allowed zero fast.
19:36
Speaker 2: Break points, zero transition points.
19:39
Speaker 3: And so that's one of the areas of defense he's
19:42
Speaker 3: mastered these last three years. You'll see that West Virginia
19:45
Speaker 3: had a top fifteen adjusted defense, and transition defense is
19:50
Speaker 3: one of the hardest things to teach in college basketball,
19:52
Speaker 3: and I thought West Virginia for a good chunk in
19:54
Speaker 3: season was elites at that and if Indiana can get
19:58
Speaker 3: to that level, they'll win a lot of games because
20:00
Speaker 3: in the Big Ten, as you know, Alex so.
20:02
Speaker 2: Many of these games are won on the margins, and
20:05
Speaker 2: so team there's.
20:06
Speaker 3: Enough teams like Illinois and you know they'll be at
20:09
Speaker 3: Michigan and the list pups bond in the league USC
20:12
Speaker 3: where there's teams want to get out and run, He'll
20:15
Speaker 3: he'll have a great plan to slow that trend.
20:17
Speaker 2: Take the transition gave away effectively.
20:20
Speaker 3: Uh. We saw how amazing Iyowa of States offense was
20:22
Speaker 3: last year, and I was still blown away that Iowa
20:25
Speaker 3: State did not have a single fast.
20:27
Speaker 2: Breakpoint in their upset loss against West Virgreaba. Yeah.
20:31
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm curious kind of you're a little
20:34
Speaker 1: bit more on your thoughts on his temperament because you
20:38
Speaker 1: mentioned that, you know, that's a big deal with the
20:39
Speaker 1: Indiana job because kind of going back to Crean and
20:43
Speaker 1: there was obviously that was up and down situation if
20:46
Speaker 1: things are going well. You know, his personality was really
20:50
Speaker 1: actually pretty good for the job because he you know,
20:52
Speaker 1: he was able to sell the job and was out
20:54
Speaker 1: there engaging with the fan base when things didn't go
20:57
Speaker 1: as well. I don't think he handled that all that well.
21:00
Speaker 1: Archie to me, came in with the pedigree as being
21:04
Speaker 1: a really sawid coach, but he didn't really want to
21:06
Speaker 1: engage the fans in any meaningful way, and it kind
21:08
Speaker 1: of just seemed like he just wanted to coach the
21:10
Speaker 1: team and not do anything else. And then Mike Woodson,
21:14
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't really do anything extra beyond just
21:18
Speaker 1: the bare minimum of you know, in terms of the
21:21
Speaker 1: outside stuff that it takes to do in Indiana. The Freese,
21:25
Speaker 1: I think is going to be interesting because you know,
21:28
Speaker 1: you mentioned him being a humble guy. I think the
21:31
Speaker 1: thing that's been most encouraging for me. And I've only
21:33
Speaker 1: met him once and had a chance to sit down
21:35
Speaker 1: with him last month in his office and talked for
21:37
Speaker 1: thirty five to forty minutes. But he wanted to talk
21:42
Speaker 1: basketball like at a very detailed level, and that's not
21:46
Speaker 1: something that the Indiana coach has wanted to do really
21:50
Speaker 1: recently the last couple of ten years. So that was
21:53
Speaker 1: interesting to me. And you mentioned him being humble. That
21:58
Speaker 1: was really the kind of the vibe he gave off
22:00
Speaker 1: to me as well as is he just seemed like
22:02
Speaker 1: a normal A lot of these coaches just have this
22:04
Speaker 1: persona like as they're not like approachable, as like a
22:07
Speaker 1: regular human being, a regular person but he just seemed
22:10
Speaker 1: like a normal everyday guy. Maybe that's because he was
22:13
Speaker 1: an assistant coach for so long and grinded his way
22:15
Speaker 1: up through the through the ranks, and you know, he
22:18
Speaker 1: maybe never expected to be the coach in Indiana, but
22:21
Speaker 1: he seems genuinely appreciative for the opportunity and just really
22:24
Speaker 1: I don't want to stay happy to be there because
22:26
Speaker 1: he obviously earned the opportunity and he's gonna, I think,
22:30
Speaker 1: do a really good job. But just his personality, based
22:34
Speaker 1: on other coaches that I've interacted with over a long
22:36
Speaker 1: period of time, just just was a little bit different.
22:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I pretty much agree with everything you said there.
22:43
Speaker 3: I think based on Indiana's recent past with those three
22:47
Speaker 3: head coaches before him, this will be a nice change,
22:51
Speaker 3: I think. And I also think it's somewhat required and
22:53
Speaker 3: probably was part of the search thought process right for
22:58
Speaker 3: the you know, the administrator and board members that made
23:02
Speaker 3: the decision to hire coach Devrees. You know, he he
23:06
Speaker 3: is a very laser focused guy, as you kind of
23:09
Speaker 3: hinted at there, and really is an XS and o's
23:13
Speaker 3: just hoop junkie. I ran into him at rock Hill
23:17
Speaker 3: atidis event about a week and a half ago, and
23:20
Speaker 3: the same guy didn't seem any different.
23:22
Speaker 2: He could have had a Drake shirt on Orgon Indiana.
23:25
Speaker 2: Sure it's the same person. He's not any different. So
23:28
Speaker 2: that tells me, you know, the job's not changing him.
23:31
Speaker 2: And and you.
23:33
Speaker 3: Know, he had limited to little expectations at West Virginia
23:37
Speaker 3: last year, and really, like I said, when they were
23:40
Speaker 3: full strength, I mean they were top fifteen team for
23:43
Speaker 3: a long time, at.
23:44
Speaker 2: Least in those first eight weeks of the season.
23:46
Speaker 3: And you know, if you get a healthy Devres this
23:49
Speaker 3: year and all the pieces you brought in, I think
23:51
Speaker 3: the kid from you know, Troy is tremendous. He's got
23:54
Speaker 3: a chance to be a big time player in this
23:56
Speaker 3: in the Big ten level. He proved that, I think
23:59
Speaker 3: in the NCAAT against Kentucky and so so yeah, I
24:03
Speaker 3: think they're just going to continue to improve and get
24:04
Speaker 3: better throughout the year. They might they might have a
24:06
Speaker 3: couple of results early that fans aren't gonna love, but
24:09
Speaker 3: they're going to learn from that and.
24:10
Speaker 2: They're going to continue to grow.
24:12
Speaker 3: And I think in college basketball that's the hardest thing
24:14
Speaker 3: to find is guys who just stick with it and
24:18
Speaker 3: keep getting better.
24:19
Speaker 2: And I think it's also shows up in the types
24:22
Speaker 2: of kids he brings in.
24:23
Speaker 3: I mean, I've gotten to know Sam Alexis both when
24:26
Speaker 3: he was with Michigan and Alabama.
24:28
Speaker 2: That kid's a tremendous kid.
24:31
Speaker 3: Pretty much everybody I know of on the roster that
24:33
Speaker 3: I've either interacted with or or talked to their head
24:36
Speaker 3: coach about really really high IQ basketball and just a
24:41
Speaker 3: relatable kid to you know, easily for them to get
24:44
Speaker 3: along with others, not going to create trouble. So so
24:47
Speaker 3: I feel like that was done intentionally as well.
24:50
Speaker 2: So even if you know.
24:51
Speaker 3: Talent wise and experience wise, they come across as middle
24:54
Speaker 3: of the PAC Big ten and forty second in the country.
24:58
Speaker 2: You saw with Forda last year. The teams that jell
25:01
Speaker 2: can really really push that.
25:02
Speaker 3: Envelope all the way to the top ten if it
25:05
Speaker 3: all comes together correctly. So I'm not going to boldly
25:08
Speaker 3: predict that, but I think it is all possible.
25:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, The.
25:13
Speaker 1: Recruiting waters that he's going to be swimming in now,
25:15
Speaker 1: obviously from a high school recruiting perspective, are going to
25:18
Speaker 1: be a little different than obviously for sure Drake, and
25:23
Speaker 1: probably a little bit higher too than what was expected
25:25
Speaker 1: it was Virginia, but I think he did a really
25:28
Speaker 1: good job putting together a coaching staff with experience recruiting
25:31
Speaker 1: those type of players, and so far they seem to
25:34
Speaker 1: be with the twenty six class getting mentioned with a
25:37
Speaker 1: lot of guys who are highly ranked, and so we'll
25:38
Speaker 1: see how that obviously develops. There's still the portal out there,
25:41
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure exactly get the balance in terms
25:43
Speaker 1: of how the portal and high school will be recruited
25:47
Speaker 1: moving forward, but they do seem to have a pretty
25:49
Speaker 1: good start in terms of making contacts with high school
25:52
Speaker 1: kids and you know, having a chance to put together
25:54
Speaker 1: a solid twenty six class. But I want to focus
25:56
Speaker 1: more specifically on this upcoming season because you look at
26:00
Speaker 1: the roster on paper and you say, well, there's there's
26:02
Speaker 1: maybe not a surefire NBA guy in this team, but
26:05
Speaker 1: there's a lot of solid pieces and that maybe will
26:10
Speaker 1: take some people into in the in the preseason saying
26:14
Speaker 1: this is maybe a you know, eleventh or twelfth best
26:16
Speaker 1: team in the Big Ten. But the chance to outperform
26:19
Speaker 1: that expectation to me seems real based on what he
26:22
Speaker 1: was able to do last season with West Virginia, with
26:25
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a similar situation, but he
26:26
Speaker 1: did have to turn the roster over completely this year
26:31
Speaker 1: in Indiana. I had to probably take more portal guys
26:34
Speaker 1: than he would would want to in a normal cycle,
26:36
Speaker 1: just out of necessity because the whole roster was gone.
26:38
Speaker 1: And some of these guys are making the jump up
26:41
Speaker 1: from the mid major to the high major level, and
26:43
Speaker 1: we don't always know how that's going to translate. But
26:45
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious for your thoughts on this
26:47
Speaker 1: roster as a whole. You mentioned Tayton Connorway as a
26:51
Speaker 1: guy you like. Sambalexis was a guy that won a
26:53
Speaker 1: national championship at Florida last season, so he's got that
26:56
Speaker 1: experience of playing on the biggest stage. Devrees in as
27:01
Speaker 1: a transfer to you know, people forget he's a two
27:03
Speaker 1: time player of the Year in the Missouri Valley. That's
27:05
Speaker 1: that's not an easy thing to do. He was a
27:08
Speaker 1: really good player last year too before he got hurt.
27:11
Speaker 1: Lamar Wilkerson was outstanding at sam Houston State last year.
27:15
Speaker 1: One of the best three point shooters in the country.
27:16
Speaker 1: You can kind of just go down the list. All
27:17
Speaker 1: these guys have some accomplishments at the lower level, and
27:22
Speaker 1: you wonder how it's going to translate to the high
27:24
Speaker 1: major level. But I think the chance to outperform expectations
27:27
Speaker 1: is definitely there if things go well.
27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And like I said, I think the
27:32
Speaker 2: biggest thing is is these.
27:33
Speaker 4: Guys will you know, be very easy easily to It'll
27:38
Speaker 4: be easy for them to gel just as personalities, and
27:42
Speaker 4: I think I think the key will be you know,
27:45
Speaker 4: Ken connor Way and Wilkerson.
27:47
Speaker 3: You know, they're probably the most likely to be just
27:50
Speaker 3: those alpha dog point guard or shooting guard level guys
27:54
Speaker 3: that want the ball in their hands. They obviously, if
27:57
Speaker 3: Tucker Devreeze knock on Wood was healthy throughout the year,
28:00
Speaker 3: you've got a guy who can go get you a
28:02
Speaker 3: bucket at any time. That's a difference in this roster
28:06
Speaker 3: of course, to be able to find a guy who
28:08
Speaker 3: can close games out late.
28:09
Speaker 2: But I think Connorway is that good.
28:12
Speaker 3: Too, at least be able to get to the foul
28:13
Speaker 3: line and or create for somebody else. I think with
28:17
Speaker 3: Reed Bailey, with him being near forty two percent at
28:20
Speaker 3: Davidson with a pretty good sample size, you know, I
28:24
Speaker 3: think he'll play outside quite a bit, but he'll make
28:27
Speaker 3: defenses pay with dragging bigs that maybe don't cover the
28:31
Speaker 3: perimeter as well, and obviously Alexis has experienced, but I
28:34
Speaker 3: think it's going to be piece mail in the front court.
28:37
Speaker 3: Obviously not the tallest team in the big team in
28:39
Speaker 3: the Big Ten by any means, So that's the part I'm.
28:42
Speaker 2: Kind of curious to see.
28:43
Speaker 3: I know Josh Harris was a rebounding menace at North
28:46
Speaker 3: Florida that they were well documented last year for the
28:49
Speaker 3: opening week of the season when they upset Georgia Tech
28:52
Speaker 3: in South Carolina with some crazy rebounding numbers.
28:55
Speaker 2: He was a big part of that.
28:56
Speaker 3: But you know, their season fell apart quickly after that,
29:01
Speaker 3: and you've got Josiah Miles from that roster as well.
29:04
Speaker 3: Much different player, but bigger score. I think the shooting
29:08
Speaker 3: is like, like you pointed out as there. I just think,
29:11
Speaker 3: you know, what they're gonna need to do is figure out,
29:14
Speaker 3: you know, how to divvy up the front floor, how
29:16
Speaker 3: to get stops.
29:17
Speaker 2: You know, teams like.
29:20
Speaker 3: Michigan and Purdue or Gigantic, So it's like, how's that
29:23
Speaker 3: going to look.
29:24
Speaker 2: We'll have to see.
29:25
Speaker 3: But I think some of those schematic principles that I
29:28
Speaker 3: hinted at earlier, whether it be transition defense, perimeter defense
29:32
Speaker 3: was actually eighth in the country for West Virginia es Shoal.
29:36
Speaker 2: Those types of things can move the needle.
29:38
Speaker 3: One of the things you know, living by Saint Mary's
29:41
Speaker 3: that I count a lot when I'm watching games is
29:43
Speaker 3: how many stops you call them, call them kills or
29:47
Speaker 3: turkeys in practice a team can get. I think Indiana's
29:50
Speaker 3: gonna be one of the better teams that that, just
29:52
Speaker 3: based on the system they've been preaching both at West
29:56
Speaker 3: Virginia and Drake these last four years. I think that
29:58
Speaker 3: carries over many of the same staff members still with Darien.
30:02
Speaker 3: So I'm excited to see what it looks like. And
30:05
Speaker 3: I think, you know, when it comes to like bubble
30:07
Speaker 3: talk and in or out and all that, these types
30:11
Speaker 3: of coaches and winning on the margins, having a go
30:16
Speaker 3: to bucket guy late in games, that can be the
30:19
Speaker 3: difference sometimes with being a tournament team or not. And
30:22
Speaker 3: I think it's all vibing pretty well for Indiana on paper.
30:27
Speaker 1: Kind of switching gears here a little bit. There's obviously
30:29
Speaker 1: a busy offseason for coach coaching turnover in the Big ten.
30:33
Speaker 1: Four new coaches. We've obviously talked about the reason. I'm
30:35
Speaker 1: just kind of curious for your high level thoughts on
30:37
Speaker 1: the other new coaches in the league. Buzz Williams going
30:41
Speaker 1: over from Texas A and M to Maryland. Ben McCollum
30:45
Speaker 1: obviously leaves the res old school Drake and goes to Iowa.
30:50
Speaker 1: And then Nico Medved going from Colorado State to Minnesota.
30:55
Speaker 1: Just your your thoughts on each of those and the
30:57
Speaker 1: fit and maybe I don't know, if you want to
31:01
Speaker 1: go on a limb, which of those of those three
31:03
Speaker 1: HighRes did you like the best of those of the bunch?
31:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, good questions. I think for me, I'm a huge
31:11
Speaker 2: mcfollham guy.
31:12
Speaker 3: Not to praise Drake too much, but I think his
31:15
Speaker 3: track record speaks for himself. If you followed Northwest Missouri
31:19
Speaker 3: State at all Division two, he was basically by far
31:23
Speaker 3: the legend and best coach of Division two. In fact,
31:26
Speaker 3: energied at Texas Tech I think a few years back,
31:29
Speaker 3: ended up staying and then took Drake. I think that
31:32
Speaker 3: surprised a lot of people, but it was a good
31:35
Speaker 3: fit for him because he brought four of his starters
31:38
Speaker 3: with him. To Drake last year and we saw how
31:40
Speaker 3: that looked. Just an amazing thirty win season. Bennett Stetz,
31:45
Speaker 3: of course, is not only the best player in the
31:47
Speaker 3: Missouri Valley last year, but he was one of the
31:49
Speaker 3: best players, you know, by all the different efficiency metrics
31:52
Speaker 3: in the country. I got to see their win against
31:54
Speaker 3: Kansas State and Kansas City last December, and I think,
31:58
Speaker 3: you know, just with him at Iowa and some some
32:01
Speaker 3: of those other blue guys coming over, they got the
32:04
Speaker 3: Robert Warris as best player in Alvaro he was just
32:06
Speaker 3: playing in FIBA, but just the ability for him to
32:11
Speaker 3: make things happen in Bennett's six as an extra coach
32:14
Speaker 3: on the floor.
32:15
Speaker 2: They're just gonna find ways to win.
32:17
Speaker 3: It's gonna annoy the rest of the Big Ten, Like
32:19
Speaker 3: I think when Indiana plays them, you guys are gonna
32:22
Speaker 3: be so annoyed playing them. But I just think Iowa's
32:25
Speaker 3: got a very high ceiling because they just they won't
32:29
Speaker 3: back down no matter what. They're gonna win ugly. They
32:31
Speaker 3: won't blow a lot of teams out. But just look
32:33
Speaker 3: at what they did at Drake. I think I think
32:35
Speaker 3: there's enough in that in that roster to do it
32:37
Speaker 3: at this level, so he's probably the one I'm the
32:40
Speaker 3: highest on. I think after that you probably do have
32:42
Speaker 3: to go to Buzz Williams just for those track record. Uh,
32:45
Speaker 3: he just finds ways to win. He's got some of
32:47
Speaker 3: his guys in there. Of course, he's got Miles.
32:50
Speaker 2: Rice over there, who is underwhelming at Indiana.
32:53
Speaker 3: But I think with Buzz maybe he has his redemption
32:56
Speaker 3: season and I don't know, I think Maryland kind of
32:59
Speaker 3: projects a bubble team, but again with Buzz's track record,
33:03
Speaker 3: a really good opportunity to surprise and maybe move up
33:07
Speaker 3: a few spots from where they'll be picked. I really
33:10
Speaker 3: like the fit, of course for Nico medfit at Minnesota.
33:14
Speaker 3: Now the roster you could argue probably not quite tournament
33:18
Speaker 3: level on paper yet, but they have a really good
33:21
Speaker 3: staff and I think they should be able to build on,
33:25
Speaker 3: you know, any of the ceilings that Ben Johnson hit,
33:28
Speaker 3: so overall, the GOP for programs in better hands. Nico's
33:31
Speaker 3: a great coach. He's done it at three different schools
33:33
Speaker 3: so far. Now he's in his dream job, so they'll
33:37
Speaker 3: be taking that very seriously. And we've we've covered degrees
33:40
Speaker 3: that that missed.
33:42
Speaker 1: No, that's it I'm curious, like, from a bracketology perspective,
33:46
Speaker 1: start like starting out the season, is there any Big
33:49
Speaker 1: ten team you look at and say, this team's probably
33:52
Speaker 1: not going to be in the conversation at all the
33:54
Speaker 1: whole year. I mean, the one I was looking at,
33:56
Speaker 1: like off the top of my head, Penn State seems
33:58
Speaker 1: like they're really kind of fallen off just based on
34:01
Speaker 1: the roster turnover. Is there anyone else that comes to
34:04
Speaker 1: mind and says you say, well, this is probably going
34:07
Speaker 1: to be a transition or rebuilding year.
34:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Penn State's kind of the obvious one.
34:12
Speaker 3: But I'd also say I have some pretty big concerns
34:15
Speaker 3: about Rutgers. You know, they had they had two you know,
34:19
Speaker 3: top five picks last year and some pretty good portal
34:23
Speaker 3: ads I would add ad as well last year, and
34:25
Speaker 3: still really struggled. Now they're you know, they're inserting a
34:29
Speaker 3: couple more freshmen that are less heralded. You know, I
34:33
Speaker 3: saw I saw Zmo for Bosnia play a little bit,
34:38
Speaker 3: but a lot of the European guys will take a
34:41
Speaker 3: little bit to adjust to Big ten, and there's just
34:44
Speaker 3: a high level talent.
34:45
Speaker 2: Threeque Francis have huge numbers at nj A T.
34:47
Speaker 3: But I mean that's a huge jump to the Big
34:49
Speaker 3: Ten from one of the lower leagues in in Division one.
34:53
Speaker 3: So bu Cannon is maybe the most proven guy from
34:56
Speaker 3: George Washington. But I'm pretty sure Rutgers will land on
34:59
Speaker 3: the seventeen spot for me on the projections, and then I'm.
35:03
Speaker 2: Curious a little. I mean, I never want to doubt
35:05
Speaker 2: a Chris.
35:05
Speaker 3: Collins team, but I think, you know, and they do
35:08
Speaker 3: have Mick Martinelli back, I do think more than likely
35:13
Speaker 3: Northwestern is projected at more than an IT slash Crown
35:17
Speaker 3: Tournament level team with.
35:20
Speaker 2: A little bit more upside than those those other two
35:22
Speaker 2: Rutgers in Penn State.
35:23
Speaker 1: Hey, you talk about though program that is annoying to
35:25
Speaker 1: play against, and I respect them Northwestern. I mean, yeah,
35:30
Speaker 1: Collins selfishly, I kind of wanted to see him like
35:34
Speaker 1: take another job this offseason, just to see what he
35:36
Speaker 1: could do at a place with more resources, because he
35:39
Speaker 1: seems like a coach that if he had more talent,
35:42
Speaker 1: he could really kind of take off. I mean, I
35:44
Speaker 1: understand that that's home for him now, and that's you know,
35:46
Speaker 1: he's probably the coach there as long as he wants
35:48
Speaker 1: to be, but I've always respected what he's been able
35:52
Speaker 1: to do there, So I'll be in red, you know,
35:53
Speaker 1: if they can out, if they can be you know,
35:56
Speaker 1: twelfth or thirteenth in the Big Ten next season. I
35:59
Speaker 1: think that's a really good year Northwestern based on the
36:01
Speaker 1: Washington who knows, they could be even higher. They Martinelli's
36:04
Speaker 1: is a really good plays a potential All Big Ten
36:06
Speaker 1: first team player, So I think they'll be all They'll
36:09
Speaker 1: be fun. They're always fun to watch. I mean, again,
36:11
Speaker 1: not fun to play against, I think for a lot
36:13
Speaker 1: of Big Ten programs, but I think the way they play,
36:16
Speaker 1: they play the right way and they do maximize their talent.
36:18
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, are you you're looking at Michigan
36:22
Speaker 1: and Purdue battling it out there though for the top
36:24
Speaker 1: spot in the league, you know, in the season.
36:26
Speaker 2: I think that's the most safest to answer.
36:29
Speaker 3: I am pretty high on Iowa to maybe surprise at
36:33
Speaker 3: the top, but it's it's probably a little too bold
36:36
Speaker 3: for this stage.
36:36
Speaker 2: Want to see what it looks like a little bit more.
36:38
Speaker 3: But but yeah, and I think I think Michigan's really
36:41
Speaker 3: deep and coming off of a great year with enough
36:44
Speaker 3: back and then obviously produce speaks for itself with their
36:47
Speaker 3: you know, their guard big man Combo in full swing.
36:50
Speaker 3: They were already the number one I think point guard
36:53
Speaker 3: big man Combo in college basketball last year, and they're
36:56
Speaker 3: both back Coffin ran And and Smith, so.
37:00
Speaker 2: Kind of has to be depicted. They're like a shoe
37:02
Speaker 2: in one seed for bracketology.
37:03
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I don't think they're the
37:06
Speaker 3: most athletic team in the country, and I don't think
37:09
Speaker 3: they're completely unbeatable, but there are a lot of teams
37:12
Speaker 3: for double play that will they'll just wipe them off
37:14
Speaker 3: the floor because they're so organized and they're so disciplined,
37:17
Speaker 3: like they did with I think back to that McNee
37:20
Speaker 3: matchup in the second round last year, just how quickly
37:24
Speaker 3: that was over because they were just so much more organized,
37:27
Speaker 3: and they took advantage of, you know, in those first
37:30
Speaker 3: ten minutes in the game, they took advantage of about
37:32
Speaker 3: ten to.
37:33
Speaker 2: Twelve three layups.
37:35
Speaker 3: They'll have a lot of games like that where teams
37:36
Speaker 3: are just way underprepared. I think the real wildcard is
37:41
Speaker 3: maybe Illinois with this upside talent throwing Stoyokovich in there,
37:45
Speaker 3: bringing bossball back, obviously playing an electric style that can
37:50
Speaker 3: you know, they could put ninety on you any night.
37:53
Speaker 3: Illinois might be the real wildcard of the league to
37:55
Speaker 3: maybe go from you know, I'll probably project them around
37:59
Speaker 3: four through so, but they could surprise everybody and win it.
38:03
Speaker 3: And they also could you know, if things go sideways,
38:06
Speaker 3: they could fall down to sit seventh, eighth, or ninth.
38:08
Speaker 2: So I think that's the team to really pay attention to.
38:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, throwing all these teams into these conferences
38:15
Speaker 1: now makes it even harder to make the projections. And
38:17
Speaker 1: you throw in the you know, we have a Dylan
38:21
Speaker 1: and Burkehrt and I every year we do the preseason.
38:25
Speaker 1: We extended to the top forty rankings last year for
38:28
Speaker 1: players in the league enduring the year, and it was
38:30
Speaker 1: we didn't even have John Tanji on our preseason rankings.
38:33
Speaker 1: It's like probably nobody had them on his rankings. But
38:35
Speaker 1: that just kind of tells you the how difficult it
38:38
Speaker 1: is with all this player movement, guys being injured, guys
38:41
Speaker 1: moving up a level, It's really hard to project how
38:43
Speaker 1: players are gonna perform. That makes it more fun. I
38:46
Speaker 1: think it makes it more unpredictable. It gives you maybe
38:48
Speaker 1: a little bit more hope going into the season that
38:50
Speaker 1: something crazy could happen, but it's also just really a
38:53
Speaker 1: crapshoot and I think, you know, obviously, Purdue I think
38:56
Speaker 1: deserves to be picked near the top, and they're the
38:58
Speaker 1: safest pick. But I'm just excited to see as to
39:01
Speaker 1: how some of these new coaches and all this new
39:04
Speaker 1: all these new players adapted league. I think it'll be
39:06
Speaker 1: a really fun season. Before we kind of wrap up,
39:09
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, obviously you're still doing things
39:12
Speaker 1: with your site, bracketeer dot org. You've been doing things
39:16
Speaker 1: with Phil sixty eight, I understand, but you're also involved
39:18
Speaker 1: with the Trilly Donovan project Basket under Review. How's that?
39:22
Speaker 1: I noticed you had a written piece on there earlier
39:25
Speaker 1: this week. How's that going? And you know where else
39:29
Speaker 1: can listeners to the podcast continue to check out your work?
39:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's been a blast so far.
39:36
Speaker 3: We just got started on technically July first, but it's
39:39
Speaker 3: been in the works for you know, probably since the
39:42
Speaker 3: end of last season.
39:43
Speaker 2: And honored to be a part of it.
39:45
Speaker 3: There's just tremendous talent on their three man weave are
39:48
Speaker 3: doing doing their stuff, intermingling with different podcasts, plus they
39:52
Speaker 3: have their own show. Emon Brennan's got his own show
39:55
Speaker 3: that drops. I think every Monday, I'll probably be in
39:59
Speaker 3: the podcas Cast World. But then starting when the season starts,
40:03
Speaker 3: and in the meantime, I'm just gonna do a couple
40:06
Speaker 3: articles a month on Unique.
40:08
Speaker 2: We're calling it the landscape.
40:10
Speaker 3: Because that's really where I think I bring the most
40:12
Speaker 3: value just talking about college basketball from a three hundred
40:16
Speaker 3: and sixty fourteen lens instead of one or two leagues
40:20
Speaker 3: or five power leagues.
40:22
Speaker 2: And so yeah, appreciate you checking that out.
40:24
Speaker 3: This week and next week, we basically looked back at
40:28
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty two hiring cycle and that's leading into
40:31
Speaker 3: next week's article for the twenty twenty three.
40:34
Speaker 2: Basically, the point is how much pressure is there in
40:37
Speaker 2: this new college basketball world for a coach entering year three?
40:43
Speaker 3: And more more than just the pressure part, you know,
40:45
Speaker 3: what is all at stake at these given places, because
40:48
Speaker 3: it's very fascinating to me. Some places it's like you've
40:51
Speaker 3: got four to five years to just figure it out,
40:53
Speaker 3: so it doesn't mean as much. Other places, there's clear
40:57
Speaker 3: indicators that it could be this year or you're done,
41:00
Speaker 3: and just looking back at that twenty twenty two blast,
41:02
Speaker 3: we saw eight guys get let go last year, so
41:07
Speaker 3: it's just really good information and data and ways to
41:10
Speaker 3: also give coaches that are under heralded some credit.
41:14
Speaker 2: So thanks.
41:15
Speaker 3: I had a few guys reach out, a few head
41:17
Speaker 3: coaches reach out saying thank you for that.
41:18
Speaker 2: So anyway, it's just really cool to be a part
41:20
Speaker 2: of it.
41:21
Speaker 3: The whole point of the truly donovant platform it's called
41:23
Speaker 3: basket under review dot com is to basically highlight some
41:28
Speaker 3: of these more you know, less heralded but amazing college
41:33
Speaker 3: basketball analysts and you know journalists, I guess for both
41:38
Speaker 3: articles and podcasts, and I think it's just gonna get
41:41
Speaker 3: bigger and bigger as we go. So that also attaches
41:44
Speaker 3: to his discord channel, where I think some of your
41:46
Speaker 3: audience probably will be involved, where they have all sorts
41:48
Speaker 3: of rumors and recruiting news and any kind of behind
41:52
Speaker 3: the scenes I'm handling scheduling and bracketology stuff. And then
41:57
Speaker 3: later in February, Em and Brennan and I would do
42:00
Speaker 3: bubble Watch and Bracketology podcasts once a week, So that
42:04
Speaker 3: should be kind of cool to combine his infamous or
42:07
Speaker 3: famous bubble Watch call him that he's been doing forever,
42:11
Speaker 3: and then my bracketology stuff, so I'm super excited about
42:15
Speaker 3: that when Field of sixty eight, you know, been doing
42:17
Speaker 3: the bracketology show with them since the beginning. Nothing changing
42:21
Speaker 3: there that we'll get back in January, and also doing
42:24
Speaker 3: their mid major show. If anybody pays attention to those
42:27
Speaker 3: leagues on the Indiana audience, check that out. We'll be
42:31
Speaker 3: doing that actually every Thursday live for the first time.
42:34
Speaker 3: A lot of mid major leagues play Thursday nights. There's
42:36
Speaker 3: not a lot of high major games, so cool thing
42:39
Speaker 3: to check out as you get ready for Thursday night
42:41
Speaker 3: action in those various leagues. And then otherwise, bracketeer dot
42:45
Speaker 3: org alex is the foundation. It's always centered around our
42:50
Speaker 3: big tournament in March, so you know, all continue to
42:53
Speaker 3: do the forecast there and also all the scheduling information
42:57
Speaker 3: can be found there as well. So thanks for everybody
43:00
Speaker 3: for abably to support with that.
43:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got it bookmarked every year, like for the
43:04
Speaker 1: Big ten schedules, but this year the Indiana one, we
43:07
Speaker 1: kind of knew all the big games and then they
43:08
Speaker 1: just dropped all the bye games at once, so it
43:10
Speaker 1: wasn't like previous years you mentioned like maybe one of
43:13
Speaker 1: the assistant coaches kind of handled the scheduling for Indiana
43:18
Speaker 1: this year, so they I guess they kind of kept
43:20
Speaker 1: everything under wraps and there weren't a lot of leaks
43:23
Speaker 1: on those by games that those are usually At least
43:26
Speaker 1: in the years past, it'd be like we'd get like
43:27
Speaker 1: one one a week for there for like all summer,
43:29
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we know all the
43:30
Speaker 1: games and then they'd announced it. This year, they just
43:32
Speaker 1: kind of went a little bit earlier gave us all
43:35
Speaker 1: the games and that was kind of out worked. So
43:37
Speaker 1: if you get a chance to go over to rock
43:38
Speaker 1: O site and he's got a I don't know, I
43:42
Speaker 1: know you have SEC in Big ten, so far enough
43:43
Speaker 1: you've had any other leagues besides those Big twelve.
43:46
Speaker 3: Big twelve came out today as we record them. So
43:49
Speaker 3: timing on that question, Okay, Well, we'll have the bye
43:53
Speaker 3: by the first week of August. The other two power
43:55
Speaker 3: leagues will be available as well with the ACC in
43:57
Speaker 3: the Big East.
43:58
Speaker 1: So are most of these Power fives done with scheduling
44:02
Speaker 1: like for the most part now or is there still
44:04
Speaker 1: some holes to be filled? In here and there.
44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a chunk that are done. There's a chunk
44:09
Speaker 2: that are still looking for one maybe two big games.
44:13
Speaker 2: So I'm actually still working on a couple.
44:15
Speaker 3: In fact one, if we get it our way, we'd
44:17
Speaker 3: come to Indianapolis.
44:19
Speaker 2: So stay tuned.
44:20
Speaker 3: And then you know, and then I think I think
44:24
Speaker 3: it's down to like two dates or less or they're
44:26
Speaker 3: completely done at most places.
44:27
Speaker 2: So you saw Indiana.
44:29
Speaker 3: Notre Dame, for example, are completely done, Marquette's done, et cetera.
44:33
Speaker 1: So I think Purdue was the first one done.
44:35
Speaker 2: Weren't that Purdue was the first one? Yeah, exactly.
44:37
Speaker 3: So a lot of your in state rivals slash friends
44:41
Speaker 3: are are pretty wrapped up. But yeah, just to comment
44:45
Speaker 3: on your point about Indiana this year, I think, you know, it's.
44:48
Speaker 2: Kind of random for me.
44:49
Speaker 3: If I have something that overlaps with them, then I
44:52
Speaker 3: kind of get all of it. It's not like they
44:54
Speaker 3: tried to hide it from me or anything. But if
44:57
Speaker 3: if I have nothing to offer them, I usually don't
44:59
Speaker 3: reach out. So that's kind of what happened this year.
45:01
Speaker 3: So we'll see if we can do something more next year.
45:03
Speaker 1: Good deal, Well, Roco, thanks again for the time. Good
45:06
Speaker 1: luck with all the various endeavors. We'll be making sure
45:11
Speaker 1: to follow you every step of the way. Thanks for
45:12
Speaker 1: taking the time this week. Appreciate it.
45:15
Speaker 2: Likewise, yeah, appreciate all your work as well.
45:17
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on absolutely. If you enjoy a
45:20
Speaker 1: podcasts on the Brink. As I mentioned at the top,
45:22
Speaker 1: please leave us the rating and review over on Apple Podcasts,
45:24
Speaker 1: leave us at five star rating over on Spotify, and
45:27
Speaker 1: we'll be back soon with another episode or podcast on
45:29
Speaker 1: the Brain.