Latest / The SEANC View / GEN Z Takeover: A Probation Officer's Journey and Insights

Transcript

GEN Z Takeover: A Probation Officer's Journey and Insights · The SEANC View

• 0:00
  Welcome back to another edition of the Gen Z takeover of the Scenic View podcast.
• 0:06
  My name is Samantha Klein. I am the digital communications specialist here at
• 0:11
  Scenic, as well as the podcast producer.
• 0:14
  Alongside me, we have Jameson Rhodes, who is our data engineer, and Ramona Williams.
• 0:24
  Music.
• 0:31
  Ramona, why don't you tell us a little bit about your job and what you do?
• 0:35
  Yes, so I'm currently a probation parole officer in Wake County.
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  So what I do is supervise offenders who currently are on supervision,
• 0:45
  whether it's through probation or on post-release through the parole commission.
• 0:49
  And just to start with, so we kind of get a gist, what is something that drew
• 0:54
  you into public service?
• 0:57
  Well, I was a criminal justice major, but I do remember growing up as a child,
• 1:02
  I always wanted to be on the right side of the law.
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  I just enjoyed just seeing police officers, making sure the neighborhoods were
• 1:10
  safe, making sure people wasn't stealing, doing drugs and things like that.
• 1:14
  So I always had a passion to like see the greater side of people and as well
• 1:19
  as protect the good people that are in the community from the bad people because
• 1:23
  everybody is, you know, not good.
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  Of course, we do want everybody to be good.
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  However, being realistic, you know, there are going to be good and bad people.
• 1:31
  So as well, just trying to make sure that the good people are safe.
• 1:36
  And what was the process like for you when it came to finding your position
• 1:42
  and starting working for state employment as a probation and parole officer?
• 1:47
  So originally when I first graduated, and I graduated back in 2012,
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  it was difficult for me to find a job in my field.
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  So I actually ended up working in entry-level jobs, whether it was like customer service.
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  And it wasn't until 2019 whether I was able to secure a job working in the state
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  because I felt like because I didn't have experience first coming out of college,
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  that was the main thing that would discredit or get my application thrown out.
• 2:16
  But now I feel like now being in the work environment now, I'll see a lot of
• 2:22
  younger people that get the job that I have straight out of college. Yeah.
• 2:27
  Which I think that is a good thing because they should be offered an opportunity,
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  not just, you know, based on age.
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  But I mean, I do feel like, yes, the job that I do have, you do have to have life experiences.
• 2:38
  So I guess it is good if you are, I guess, not say older, but,
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  you know, have developed a lot of experience.
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  And I do think that also comes from going to college because my job requires a four year degree.
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  And I think coming out
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  of high school to go into a job like
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  I have you wouldn't have those certain experiences kind
• 2:58
  of like you deal with in college so that
• 3:01
  help you in regards to your thinking process
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  how to deal with difficult situations dealing with different type of people
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  because we all have different personalities and one of the main things is having
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  to deal with people with different personalities and still get along and work
• 3:16
  through things and not create a hostile environment and pretty much you want
• 3:21
  to be able to come to work each day.
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  I was going to ask where you went to college. I was curious.
• 3:26
  Yes. I went to Fayetteville State University. Fayetteville State? Nice. FSU Bronco Pride.
• 3:33
  Yes. We got a lot of members with that Bronco Pride. I'm from Fayetteville initially. I grew up there.
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  So love that area. Used to be on the swim team in high school and would go to
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  FSU four o'clock in the morning to do swim practices.
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  I'll tell you, that pool is cold in the winter.
• 3:52
  So I had another question. I was curious. So you said you majored in criminal justice, right?
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  So when you went into college, did you know out of the gate that you wanted
• 4:01
  to major in that or did you explore a little bit?
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  Because a lot of the time you get into college, like the first two years are
• 4:08
  just general studies stuff usually.
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  So I was curious to see if there was like a certain thing that really pointed
• 4:16
  you in that direction or if you just always had that passion and interest in criminal justice.
• 4:22
  For me, I always had that passion. I went in knowing I was going to do criminal justice.
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  I just knew I wanted to be in the criminal field doing something.
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  But my goal was not to be a probation officer. My goal was actually to be a
• 4:35
  lawyer. And I did end up going to law school. I only went for a semester.
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  However, you know, I still want to do something. So I just kept applying myself.
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  And then I'll read job descriptions, of course. I'm not just going to apply for anything.
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  However, I was surprised to know what all of what probation officer does.
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  I don't think no one knows all of what we do. And we do do a lot.
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  It was blind to me because I never was around anybody that was on supervision.
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  So I didn't know like what to expect.
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  But it was a growing experience. And I mean, a good developing experience as
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  well. And now I love my job.
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  And going along with that, what is something that you wish more of the public knew about your job?
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  I wish the public knew that we do more than just locking people up if they don't
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  do what they're supposed to.
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  We have to sit down, talk to offenders, help them to think about the decisions they're making.
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  We're pretty much walking them through, not like holding their hand,
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  but we're like guiding them through.
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  Talking to them. So sometimes, you know, some office appointments do turn into
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  almost like a therapy session.
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  We're not, you know, licensed therapists. However, it's,
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  pretty much equivalent in my view. So we, as well, we try to address their noncompliance,
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  not just taking them straight to jail. We try to offer them treatment.
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  There's a drug issue, there are mental health issues. And then I think also
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  too, a lot of people are unaware that most people that aren't supervision,
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  they deal with like mental health or substance use.
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  And most of the time because they have substance use is because of the mental
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  health issues. And that's another thing I think a lot of people are unaware.
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  I wish people become more aware of mental health, which I'm a pro mental health.
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  Myself, I am even in therapy. And I just think that everybody should go to therapy,
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  you know, one hour out of the week. that's something that is very helpful for
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  people to have somebody to talk to, not just people that don't supervision,
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  but people as well as state employees.
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  I even think that's one thing that we should incorporate because even though
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  not go far off topic, but even like with taking or having a therapy session,
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  like most of them are doing work hours.
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  So either I have to do it during my lunch hour or take off leave to do that.
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  But I think it would be great if there were designated leave to do like a mental
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  health appointment because it actually is making me a better person,
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  making me a better employee, making me in my personal as well as work, like I said.
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  But yeah. I definitely understand that. I've been in therapy since I was 17
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  years old. I am a big advocate for therapy.
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  I've told my friends, I'll tell them all about it. I think that,
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  as you said, everyone needs a little bit of therapy.
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  You never know what someone's going through and it helps to have someone to
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  talk it out with that's not going to judge. Yes.
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  So in your job, do you get a lot of discretion with the people that you talk to?
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  You know, like you said, you don't just lock them up. So is there ever times
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  where you have that discretion to say, I know maybe things didn't go the way
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  we wanted to right here, but we can still recover?
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  Yes. And try to tell even the finishers on my caseload. I work with honesty, long theory, honest.
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  Yes. So we have like other things set in place, whether to send them to go get
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  an assessment if they don't do that. Even like setting up
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  days for them to do, either sending them to do a substance abuse assessment
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  or even to address it in a way as like either a verbal reprimand.
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  We give worksheets to assist with their thinking, sit down and have conversations
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  with them as we'll give them an option to go to treatment and then set up a plan with them.
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  I mean, and letting them know my goal is the whole purpose of supervision is
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  not to send you back to prison, it's to keep you out of prison.
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  So with that in mind, hopefully we eventually get an understanding.
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  And then of course, you have to learn that you can't help everybody.
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  So that's another thing that we have to accept when doing this job.
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  I mean, it can get frustrated and disappointing. And for example.
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  I actually just ran into an old offender I had probably maybe like a year or two ago.
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  They were on my caseload. They completed supervision.
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  They were off, you know, drugs. They were doing well. They had gained weight.
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  They was back with their family.
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  And then I was dropping off some interns near the bus station,
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  and I happened to see one of my offenders, and I was just like, I called him to me.
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  I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, I can't believe I'm seeing you right here.
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  And then he, you know, he just put his head down as he was like disappointed.
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  He was like, Mr. Williams, I'm sorry.
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  And then I'm just like, you know, who are you with? Like he was with another person.
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  And then I was just like, he said, oh, this is my friend. I'm like, that's not your friend.
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  I was like, you need to go back home. And I was like, please go back to,
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  you know, the healing transitions, go back to treatment.
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  Even though he's off supervision, you know, it was just still disappointing.
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  Like he had did so very well, but even with stories like that,
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  they may have completed successfully us.
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  And then, you know, eventually they get off, they may revert back.
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  I mean, yeah, it was disappointing, but however, I hopefully,
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  I felt like what I said to him, it did stuck.
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  So I pray and hope he went back to go get treatment.
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  But those are like some of the things that we have to deal with.
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  We do have success stories. We have disappointing stories. You can want the best for them.
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  My goal, it is for even once they are off supervision to stay either sober,
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  stay away, stay out of the system.
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  That's the goal. Even though They don't have to see me no more.
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  Just stay out of the system.
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  And now moving on to your agency.
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  So is your position technically under Department of Adult Correction or is it
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  Department of Public Safety?
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  It's NCDAC, the Adult Corrections.
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  And what are some specific challenges that you feel like you face in your position at your agency?
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  Well, one of the challenges is monetary challenges.
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  With all the work that we do do, I do believe that it should equate to the amount
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  of work as the amount of money, even though they did come up with the step plans.
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  And, you know, there was a increase. However, with the economy, that increase.
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  So it's like pretty much the same money. but so
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  it's not like people look at it oh you make this amount
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  but the economy the prices of everything went
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  up from when I started literally my rent
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  has doubled even though my salary has
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  doubled so it's the same so I would like to see increases and then like even
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  with the budget and stuff I know the budget and stuff hadn't passed so even
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  with my department like you know having shortages on things and there was like
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  oh we're waiting for the budget to pass so that's something And that's definitely a challenge.
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  And I wish they could find money somewhere to give to us, like even as far as bonuses.
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  And then plus keeping the veteran staff. So I've been there now going on like six and a half years.
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  So I guess now consider a veteran because, well, I'm on the last step plan.
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  So, but yes, I wish they would do more for the experienced staff as well.
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  Because even with the sign-on bonus that they were doing to get people to apply
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  and be hired and stuff, they were doing a sign-on bonus.
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  And then I was like, well, it'd be nice if we have a keep-on bonus.
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  Keep us, you know, we are training the new staff and stuff.
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  So you will want to have more experienced officers versus the newer, of course.
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  And with that, if you could sit face-to-face with legislators,
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  lawmakers, what is one thing that you would like to ask them or even tell them?
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  Well, actually, I would like to say, could you go spend maybe a week with me
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  at work so you can get a better understanding?
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  And I feel like a lot of people that are in charge or, you know,
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  make laws, they don't know how it is working in this position.
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  They're just making the laws. And I understand that.
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  Their part, but I would love for them to understand us as well,
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  because then they'll see, okay, you do do a lot. This job does require a lot.
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  Even as far as I work in Wake County, and we don't have like designated parking.
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  So we either have to park in like residential areas, which is like further down
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  and still walk to work to the courthouse, or we risk parking in the paid spots.
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  And then as well, top of that, if your meter expired, they ticket our state vehicles.
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  And yes, they ticket our cars. I mean, and it's like they get a kick out of
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  it because they know we have to pay.
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  But I mean, like other police officers cars, they don't ticket those cars or
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  anything like that. But yes, they ticket our cars.
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  They don't mind. And I personally have gotten tickets and it's just like it
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  racks up and that's a lot of money throughout the years.
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  So that's one thing working in Wake County is the parking.
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  I mean, even with just give us designated parking, free parking or close to
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  the building because it is a safety hazard for us to walk far from the office.
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  And then like you got people walking down the street as well.
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  And It's a lot of homeless people downtown and, you know, they're not on medications.
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  They are sometimes acting erratic and stuff like that. So it puts us at risk
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  and then you never know who's watching you.
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  And that's another thing, too. Like, I think I may have helped somebody with an arrest.
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  I don't remember the person, but the person remembers me and they're like,
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  oh, you locked me up. And I'm like, I'll lock you up.
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  OK, I'm like, you got yourself locked up, but I may have been there.
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  That puts a target on your back you don't know so I think
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  that too should you know be taken in consideration we
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  need to be like in secure parking because this
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  has happened to me was walking down the street and stuff
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  too but yes getting back I would love for them to like
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  sit for us for a week because we're in the field we're in the office we in court
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  I mean in court is a whole nother story that's like all day we can be in district
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  and in superior court and then of course going to the jail we do prison pickups
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  if they're deemed homeless We have to help find them housing.
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  And say if we do find them housing, they're deemed homeless.
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  For instance, we do have, our department do have what we call the transitional
• 15:03
  house here in Wake County.
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  And there are some across the county as well.
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  But like, for instance, if they're deemed homeless, we pick them up.
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  Say they're at Central Prison, but the opening is in Buncombe County.
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  We have to drive them there and, you know, of course drive back. Do they pay for your gas?
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  Well, we drive state vehicles. So, yeah, they give us a gas card.
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  But, yeah, those are some of the things that we do. And then,
• 15:29
  of course, assisting our own coworkers and stuff with help as well.
• 15:33
  And then we have a caseload.
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  So we do have specialized caseloads as well as a regular caseload.
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  But it can range up to 70 people that you have to supervise.
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  And then you have to make sure you're doing a poor policy. And it's like we
• 15:49
  have deadlines and stuff that we have to do.
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  We go out to the home. We have to do home visits.
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  We have to do walkthroughs. We do searches, you know, making sure they're not
• 15:57
  having any illegal drugs, any weapons.
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  So I feel like we do a lot. And then like dealing with not only just them,
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  but then their family members and even with victims as well.
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  We have to deal with that.
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  And then even dealing with people who come from other states to our state.
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  So I would love for them to just see, you know, all of what we do and just really
• 16:17
  take note because as well, even with the administrative paperwork.
• 16:22
  North Carolina pretty much have become electronic. So we are like now filing our own stuff.
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  You have to make sure you're filing correct paperwork.
• 16:29
  It's processes to that as well. I feel like we do a lot.
• 16:34
  We are given the discretion to make decisions. So that's a lot as well.
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  But we also, too, have to have conversations with our supervisor as well to
• 16:42
  make sure we're making the right decision.
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  But we are given a lot of discretion to how we want to supervise offenders within
• 16:49
  the guidelines, of course.
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  But, yes, I would love them to know what we do.
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  And then hopefully they consider, OK, I didn't know that because I was the same
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  way prior to being in the job.
• 17:00
  I did not know they did all of this. I was like, oh, wow.
• 17:04
  Well, like I said, because I didn't have nobody that I knew that was on supervision.
• 17:07
  But of course, until you actually in it, then you actually get to see it.
• 17:12
  So and then you actually get to feel it. And that's another thing.
• 17:16
  So I think if they at least get some ride alongs with us and see,
• 17:21
  OK, this department here, they do need a lot of more resources as well.
• 17:27
  Yeah, it sounds like you guys can be pretty stretched thin with where you are
• 17:32
  and how much you're doing at once. That's wow. That's a lot.
• 17:35
  Just thinking about how widespread your job actually covers.
• 17:40
  Yeah. It sounds like there's a disconnect between the decision makers and the
• 17:44
  people who actually are doing the work.
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  So, like, I mean, I agree with you. It'd be nice if someone that could make
• 17:50
  these decisions could experience it firsthand and then they can remember that
• 17:55
  whenever they're talking about whether they're talking about how to monetize
• 17:58
  that work or what benefits to give it like priority parking and stuff.
• 18:03
  I think it's crazy you get tickets because you don't have a designated parking
• 18:08
  place for your job. I mean, that doesn't make sense.
• 18:12
  I mean, the least they could do is it's a state vehicle. Okay,
• 18:15
  well, you know, don't ticket those. Right.
• 18:18
  That's really crazy to me, especially because downtown, it is so difficult to find parking.
• 18:23
  And residential parking is
• 18:24
  very far away from the courthouse because I drive down there quite often.
• 18:29
  And I've seen how far that parking is. And that does sound very dangerous,
• 18:34
  given your position, especially not knowing if there is someone who could be...
• 18:39
  Targeting you because of your position. Yeah, they can see where you park and
• 18:44
  just wait for you to walk back to your car. They don't have to follow you. Right.
• 18:48
  It's not right. I definitely understand where there's some fear as well that
• 18:52
  comes with your position. Yes.
• 18:54
  Then let's talk a little bit more about Scenic. So how long have you been a Scenic member for?
• 18:59
  I was a Scenic member when I first got started. So since 2019,
• 19:02
  but I didn't become active until probably a few years later.
• 19:07
  I remember, I believe you were in new delegate orientation my first year at
• 19:14
  convention, which was 2022.
• 19:17
  Yes. And so what are some things and benefits that Scenic offers that attracted
• 19:22
  you to be a member as well as get more involved?
• 19:25
  I'll say the outreach for the state employees because people are like,
• 19:31
  oh, they just take your money.
• 19:32
  I mean, but I was just giving my money away, But I wasn't I didn't become active.
• 19:37
  And so once I became active, I went back to the office. I'm like, yeah, they do a lot.
• 19:42
  And like you said, my first convention was in 2022.
• 19:46
  And I went to the new delegate and I was like, oh, you know,
• 19:49
  I'll begin, you know, listening and understanding.
• 19:51
  OK, that's what they do. And, you know, I think it's just more so a lack of
• 19:56
  knowledge that people have.
• 19:58
  And then like, well, you know, they just spread what they know.
• 20:01
  But that's why I try to spread what I know as well.
• 20:04
  As far as like the benefit wise, like the insurance benefits,
• 20:08
  especially for me learning that my state insurance didn't cover orthodontics.
• 20:14
  So until somebody else had told me, I was like, well, you know,
• 20:18
  you get Delta Dental that cover adult orthodontics. I was like, OK, great.
• 20:23
  So thankfully, and I've currently have my braces. I'm almost done now.
• 20:27
  So I was grateful for that because I always wanted braces. But I was about to
• 20:30
  pay fully out of pocket for that amount of braces.
• 20:34
  And that became like a walking billboard for me. Like, I can't tell you how
• 20:38
  many people I got to sign up in for people to actually get braces.
• 20:42
  I was like, oh, wow. Like, I don't know. Like, us adults really want braces.
• 20:46
  But it's more so like, OK, the lack of funds and, you know, the benefit wise.
• 20:51
  So that part I really love.
• 20:53
  But of course, learning that they were advocating for us with the legislative
• 20:57
  and stuff and regarding the raises, like even as going to having membership
• 21:02
  drives and stuff, talking to other people.
• 21:05
  And most of the time I am talking to people who are already signed up as a senior
• 21:09
  member and then, you know, explaining to them what they do for us.
• 21:13
  And then I'm letting them know where other benefits that they offer for us,
• 21:17
  because a lot of people, like I said, do not know even with regarding like the
• 21:20
  insurance systems and stuff.
• 21:22
  And even going to convention, which I really love to see, that was that was
• 21:28
  very different for me. and I'm glad they do have the new delegate to tell us,
• 21:32
  okay, the expectations of
• 21:35
  what you're going to see if somebody don't agree with a bylaw.
• 21:39
  And then even being on, I had the opportunity to be on the impact committee for my district.
• 21:45
  And so I was able to interview, I was on some interviews with the people that
• 21:51
  we were planning on endorsing.
• 21:52
  So that was great to see and that they take our interest.
• 21:56
  They're like, okay, well, this person will really think about us and state employees.
• 22:01
  Because I think they like just, I don't want to say, like, people forget about us.
• 22:05
  State employees, I know for me, this was considered like a glorified position.
• 22:10
  And, you know, people think they have, you know, great benefits.
• 22:13
  However, we do have great benefits, but it could be a lot better.
• 22:17
  And it can't be just what it was like years ago.
• 22:21
  It has to get better. So I do appreciate scenic, you know, advocating better,
• 22:25
  even like for the retirees.
• 22:27
  They can't live off on the same amount of money they got, especially with the economy and stuff.
• 22:33
  And to see like scenic advocating for us on that.
• 22:36
  Following that, how has your involvement with scenic personally impacted you
• 22:42
  and your experience as a state employee?
• 22:44
  Well, scenic has gotten me to be more outspoken in regards to advocating.
• 22:51
  Like even within my office, I'll tell them, oh, I'm going to go do a scenic event.
• 22:56
  Oh, Ramona, you're always going to go do It's scenic, scenic.
• 22:59
  I was like, I love scenic.
• 23:03
  And so even with meeting people, like meeting you, because I know you remember like how I met you.
• 23:09
  I think one of my coworkers, she came with me too. And I was like,
• 23:13
  oh, I want her to take a picture of me.
• 23:16
  She was like, she'll take a picture. Just tell her. So she told you to take
• 23:19
  a picture of me. And then like that picture was ended up in one of the pamphlets.
• 23:24
  And I was like, I saw I was going around the office. I was like, I'm famous.
• 23:27
  I still have that picture. I know exactly what picture you're talking about.
• 23:31
  And now I get one of you every year at commencement. Okay.
• 23:35
  Thank you. And so I had it in my office. So I had it like the pamphlet.
• 23:40
  I was like, oh, yeah, look, I'm famous.
• 23:44
  And that's another thing. People know that I love taking pictures.
• 23:47
  So that was one of my things.
• 23:49
  And, like, I use that as a way to try to get people on board to become active,
• 23:55
  like, as an active member. And I tell them you have to actually go to some meetings
• 23:59
  and, you know, then you become active.
• 24:01
  So in their mind, they was thinking they're getting money drafted out there.
• 24:06
  Yeah, you are a member, but you're not an active member.
• 24:09
  And then I was explaining, like, even with the convention, that was like was
• 24:13
  a great deal of experience for me.
• 24:14
  And like meeting people from other parts and stuff and still gaining and developing
• 24:20
  relationships and stuff. Yeah.
• 24:22
  Just networking as well and then able to tell and hear like what other departments
• 24:27
  and stuff are experiencing.
• 24:29
  And some of them are we can relate because we do have the same thing.
• 24:33
  And I think one of them is just money.
• 24:36
  And then we can relate on that. Seems to be a challenge throughout state employment
• 24:41
  is a lack of not just funds to provide what you guys need in the office,
• 24:48
  but also sometimes a lack of pay raises and COLA increases for the retiree. Yes.
• 24:56
  And I feel like I do, as someone who hears a lot about this stuff and sits in
• 25:01
  the office and we have these conversations a lot, it is a common issue across
• 25:06
  the board of different agencies that we will talk to different members from.
• 25:11
  So I completely understand where that comes zone. Yes.
• 25:16
  So like that question made me think of something. I wanted to ask,
• 25:19
  do you think that in your job, like your position that you get to view the world
• 25:23
  in a different lens than other people?
• 25:26
  Because you get to see unique situations that I bet an outsider,
• 25:30
  they would judge it differently than you because you actually get to interact
• 25:34
  with these people who are going through hard times or they're trying to, you know, restart.
• 25:39
  Whereas I think someone who wasn't really involved
• 25:43
  in it they wouldn't look at it the same
• 25:45
  as you would so I'm curious to see how you describe that
• 25:49
  lens that you get to see it through yes so like for instance I'm going down
• 25:54
  the street and I see like a homeless person digging in the you know trash can
• 25:58
  or something like that you know a person that's not in my field do you know
• 26:02
  they may deem like oh my gosh he's disgusting you know something like that I'm looking at no oh he make.
• 26:08
  Displaced he could have fallen on bad terms
• 26:12
  and this is he you know burnt bridges I'm thinking
• 26:15
  about all of that collectively like all that goes
• 26:18
  through my mind when I see somebody struggling and stuff
• 26:20
  oh they must be dealing with mental health issues it's
• 26:24
  not like to go ahead and like cast them aside I'm
• 26:27
  calculating analyzing their whole life what it
• 26:30
  probably could have been versus like you know
• 26:33
  just a person not in the field and then as well
• 26:36
  even with viewing like life situations like
• 26:39
  I would say I know people like the dean law enforcement is like
• 26:42
  they the bad people now but like being in the field and
• 26:45
  like you may watch the same video that we're watching and
• 26:48
  they like the officer was wrong but I'm looking
• 26:51
  at it I'm like no the person was wrong the officer
• 26:54
  was right and so I even find that in some of my
• 26:57
  personal conversations like dealing with my friends or
• 27:00
  you know other people you know we may have differences of
• 27:03
  opinions and so I'm like well until you on
• 27:06
  that side you don't understand so you don't know like how that feels to have
• 27:12
  to like take control of a situation and everything is just going fast so it's
• 27:17
  like it's easy for you to say you're a calm person your heart rate is regular
• 27:21
  level versus their heart rate is high, everything's just going,
• 27:25
  like something that you cannot prepare for.
• 27:28
  And it's different when the outsiders look at it. So that's one thing that I do see differently.
• 27:35
  And maybe I should have reworded that question to make it a little more like
• 27:38
  Jameson, because that kind of answers my question as well.
• 27:42
  Because an opportunity for you guys is you do see the world through a different
• 27:45
  lens and you look at each person as an individual rather than,
• 27:50
  Oh, well, that's a stereotype.
• 27:52
  And I can see where that would be a good opportunity for your position.
• 27:56
  So kind of similar to the lens, you know, you talk, there's obviously cases
• 28:01
  where things don't work out, but there's also those cases where people redeem
• 28:05
  themselves in their success stories, right?
• 28:07
  And I was curious based on what you said about how some people could see a homeless
• 28:12
  person digging in the trash and you'll see something totally different than someone else.
• 28:16
  If you can see maybe not even a homeless person, but all types of people who
• 28:21
  people outside of your position, they might cast away as like a lost cause that
• 28:26
  you've actually seen those people redeem themselves and actually become extremely successful people.
• 28:31
  You know, I was curious if you had even any personal experiences of someone
• 28:35
  who interacted with you or that you helped out and they actually became really successful.
• 28:41
  Like they recovered and they lead a really good life and they're just doing well.
• 28:47
  Yeah. I mean, we end up having a lot of those stories, even though those are
• 28:50
  not really talked about.
• 28:52
  And so even for us, like for me, if a person have redeemed themselves,
• 28:57
  I don't, oh yeah, they was once on supervision or, you know,
• 29:00
  they was once involved in the criminal justice system versus a person may look at them.
• 29:05
  Oh, you know they will always be a criminal and like
• 29:08
  that happens as well like when they're
• 29:11
  applying for jobs they are a better person they
• 29:14
  don't do what they did before but yes they was a felon yes they had you know
• 29:18
  a valid history so jobs just look at what's on paper they don't take account
• 29:23
  like they change their lives and stuff so that's another barrier as well for
• 29:29
  them and i wish people I mean,
• 29:31
  I know you can't give everybody a chance, but, you know,
• 29:35
  at least don't discredit a person just from like based on like their past history,
• 29:40
  because especially if you don't know the full story.
• 29:42
  I mean, I'm not saying everybody's not guilty, but some things I mean,
• 29:46
  the criminal justice system is what it is.
• 29:48
  And, you know, there has to have been people.
• 29:51
  In the criminal justice system that went to jail and prison and they did not
• 29:55
  do it or, you know, they was just in the wrong place in the wrong time and got a charge.
• 30:00
  And then some people don't even know how to, even though like you get charged
• 30:04
  with something, but if you're not convicted, it is a process where you can get
• 30:08
  that erased from your history.
• 30:10
  And some people don't do that. So like they'll go to get jobs and they found,
• 30:14
  yeah, they was charged with certain things and they won't hire them.
• 30:18
  But in reality, it was just a charge. But, you know, everybody don't look at it that way.
• 30:23
  Well, they shouldn't have done that or, you know, they shouldn't have been around that person.
• 30:26
  But anybody can be on the other side of the table. So that's one thing I think
• 30:31
  societies should look at.
• 30:33
  You know, don't look down on a person just because they are on supervision.
• 30:37
  Because I do find, like, you know, some offenders who are on supervision sometimes
• 30:41
  and, like, they are so embarrassed.
• 30:44
  They don't want their neighbors to know. They don't want their parents to know.
• 30:48
  But like if they live with the person, I'm like, I'm sorry.
• 30:51
  I'm not going to personally tell them exactly what you did. But I'll leave that
• 30:54
  up to you. You know, it's public knowledge.
• 30:56
  Just you have to, you know, tell them if they live with the person at their
• 30:59
  own supervision. And, you know, the rules are. But like they're embarrassed.
• 31:03
  And I mean, I get the embarrassment. I don't want to embarrass nobody either.
• 31:07
  And it's like a stigma. I don't want to say they're thrown into a stereotype
• 31:12
  like, oh, they're on probation. So they must have did something very horrible.
• 31:16
  So people look at them different and judge them differently.
• 31:19
  And like, they're like, well, I don't want my coworkers to know.
• 31:22
  I'm not going to tell your coworkers your own supervision.
• 31:25
  That's not for me. And, you know, like they don't want to be seen.
• 31:29
  And I get it, you know, because people are going to automatically think the worst.
• 31:34
  I don't automatically think the worst being in this field because I know like
• 31:39
  certain people, sometimes you just ended up with the wrong friend,
• 31:43
  which I don't really will call them friends. It's just, it's learning experiences.
• 31:48
  And, you know, that's just the course they had to go through.
• 31:52
  And I'm just thankful that I was able to stay out of the criminal justice on that side.
• 31:58
  So I think people just need to keep that in mind. Like, don't just toss them away.
• 32:04
  Yeah, I think, you know, like you said, if they just toss them away sometimes,
• 32:07
  I bet that can even undo all the progress they did. Because it's like, I messed up.
• 32:12
  But, you know, I think I made up for it. But it looks like it doesn't matter.
• 32:15
  So what's the point, you know?
• 32:17
  Yeah. Like, imagine you're just trying to get jobs and you just can't.
• 32:20
  So you're like, I'm just going to go back to doing whatever I want to do.
• 32:24
  Yeah. And that sometimes happens. Like, that's one of the things you have to
• 32:28
  have a good support system as well to succeed.
• 32:31
  So that's what we try to help them define a good environment,
• 32:35
  be around a good environment.
• 32:36
  And yes, employment is one of the barriers that will lead a person back to reoffending.
• 32:42
  Because you can't make money, then they're going to go back to stealing.
• 32:45
  And then end up back in the system. So it's kind of like we have to stop.
• 32:50
  Why are they re-offending? So why are they stealing? Are they stealing because
• 32:54
  of drugs or are they stealing because they're trying to support their family?
• 32:57
  So if they're trying to steal to support their family, then we need to,
• 33:00
  like, give opportunities for them to get jobs.
• 33:03
  And then the jobs that they can get, they only get paid maybe like bare minimum wage.
• 33:08
  And so you can't support a family just on that amount.
• 33:12
  But then you can't get hired at a great company where you're making like $20,
• 33:16
  $25 or $30 an hour because of your record.
• 33:18
  So it's like what do you do and so I
• 33:21
  just try to encourage just you know stay the
• 33:24
  course do what you can and eventually hopefully
• 33:27
  somebody you know would take a chance with you sometimes
• 33:30
  you have to go in and plead your case and explain you're not
• 33:33
  this person just what it was on paper and even
• 33:37
  with me on paper it looks like I may have done nothing
• 33:40
  but as far as like even like my work history
• 33:43
  and stuff and I feel like qualified for more
• 33:46
  than what my resume says because I
• 33:49
  one of the things working in this position is learning
• 33:52
  how to deal with people and even like what supervisory roles like I haven't
• 33:57
  done a lot but I feel like I've experienced enough to be qualified so it's like
• 34:04
  it's the same thing don't go by based on my resume that I may not be qualified
• 34:09
  for this position versus the same way for them as well.
• 34:13
  All right. Our final question, much more lighthearted. Okay.
• 34:17
  Do you see yourself ever working towards a leadership position in Scenic?
• 34:23
  What are the leadership?
• 34:25
  Well, of course, there's our state officers, but there's also district chairs.
• 34:30
  We have different committees.
• 34:32
  Do you see yourself working towards participating and maybe eventually being
• 34:36
  maybe a chair of those positions or a chair of your district?
• 34:41
  Yes, I see myself being in the leadership role.
• 34:44
  Well, I've not had the opportunity to sit on the committee like for the impact,
• 34:49
  but as well like for being in my district, which is District 41,
• 34:54
  and we were the district of the year.
• 34:59
  Shout out to District 41. So we're birthing some great leaders.
• 35:04
  So only a matter of time and like I'm surrounded by, you know,
• 35:08
  the great leaders and most of them are the ones that kind of like pull me in
• 35:11
  and, you know, trying to, you know, help shape me and guide me along the way.
• 35:15
  So they're like setting, you know, paving the path for me. So it's only eventually
• 35:20
  time for when it does happen.
• 35:23
  Well, we look forward to continue watching you on your journey in Scenic as
• 35:27
  well as your journey through state employment.
• 35:29
  And thank you so much for coming in and joining us today. But thank you for having me.
• 35:35
  I greatly appreciate it. I hope what I said, you know, touch some ears and,
• 35:39
  you know, hopefully make some laughs and smiles.
• 35:43
  Music.