Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / AFANT CEO David Ciaravolo says plans for the future of fisheries management in the Territory remain unclear, creating a lot of uncertainty

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AFANT CEO David Ciaravolo says plans for the future of fisheries management in the Territory remain unclear, creating a lot of uncertainty · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 2: As we heard last week, amendments protecting the rights of
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  Speaker 2: Aboriginal landowners were passed through Parliament. The amendment, which acknowledges
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  Speaker 2: the rights of traditional owners to territory coasts, leaves the
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  Speaker 2: industry uncertain when it comes to access across the Northern
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  Speaker 2: Territory's waters. Now, we spoke to the CEO of the
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  Speaker 2: Seafood Council last week, who raised concerns for industry, saying
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  Speaker 2: the changes were made without genuine consultation with industry and
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  Speaker 2: those who access the waters. Now joining me on the
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  Speaker 2: line is our fants, David chi Rovolo. Good morning to you, David.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning Katie.
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  Speaker 2: Now, David, people are going to be listening wondering is
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  Speaker 2: this the same situation as the Blue Mud Bay decision
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  Speaker 2: or is it something else? Firstly, can you talk us
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  Speaker 2: through you know what waters this relates to.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So, I think the first thing here is that
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  Speaker 3: there are no new rights, effectively that have been afforded
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  Speaker 3: here in this instance. Although it may open the door
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  Speaker 3: to further recognition of waters beyond inter title zones or
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  Speaker 3: water currently overlying Aboriginal land. But presently what the amendments
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  Speaker 3: have done is makes some changes.
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  Speaker 1: To the Fisheries Act. The government has said that that's.
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  Speaker 3: To bring it into line with the Aboriginal Land Rights
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  Speaker 3: Act and the decision of the High Court and the
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  Speaker 3: bloom mart Bay decision. But of course it is very
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  Speaker 3: important to people to understand that those laws are the
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  Speaker 3: highest law in the country and those laws have already
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  Speaker 3: been in place. So it's certainly not the case that
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  Speaker 3: this change alone has conferred new rights.
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  Speaker 1: The big significant well.
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  Speaker 3: The rights that we are clear about. What the problem
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  Speaker 3: is is there are parts of this that are unclear
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  Speaker 3: due to the consultation process. And the other thing that's
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  Speaker 3: really concerning is that these changes of the Act came
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  Speaker 3: about at an agreement between the Northern Land Council and
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  Speaker 3: the Northern Territory Government. They've said that it's Tranche one
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  Speaker 3: of a much broader suite of change, and the consultation
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  Speaker 3: process was very lacking.
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  Speaker 1: We are very worried.
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  Speaker 3: That if a full review occurs under the same conditions
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  Speaker 3: that we won't know what the future fisheries management is
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  Speaker 3: going to look like anymore. And there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: uncertainty for commercial and recreational fishing.
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  Speaker 2: So David talk us through exactly what's unclear at this
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  Speaker 2: point in time from a recfisher's perspective, right, So.
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  Speaker 3: What's unclear is what is being planned for the future
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  Speaker 3: of fisheries management in the Northern Territory. We've heard the
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  Speaker 3: Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, Selena Yubo a flag that there
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  Speaker 3: will be a full review, that this is just part
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  Speaker 3: of a changes to the Fisheries Act and there will
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  Speaker 3: be a full review of the Fisheries Act. The review
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  Speaker 3: that's occurred so far was not led by the Fisheries Agency.
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  Speaker 3: It was led by the Department of Chief Minister and Cabinet.
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  Speaker 3: It raises questions as to why the regulatory agency, with
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  Speaker 3: the experts who are the expert it's in regulating the fishery,
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  Speaker 3: who have the relationships with the fishery stakeholders, were not
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  Speaker 3: put in charge of the review.
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  Speaker 1: Secondly, we have a.
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  Speaker 3: Situation where over two hundred thousand dollars was awarded in
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  Speaker 3: a tender to a consultancy company from Western Australia to
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  Speaker 3: provide advice to the government on the future management of
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  Speaker 3: fisheries in the territory. They only met once with a
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  Speaker 3: fan and similarly with the Seafood Council and never followed
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  Speaker 3: up on the subsequent meeting that they were supposed to
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  Speaker 3: have with us, and so never really got into the
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  Speaker 3: detail of anything.
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  Speaker 2: What the normal ten thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars
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  Speaker 2: provided to this consultant effort.
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  Speaker 3: And that report is now finished. The Government has it,
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  Speaker 3: the Northern Land Council has it, and we understand that
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  Speaker 3: it was actually merged with a consultancy that was paid
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  Speaker 3: for exclusively by the Northern Land Councils that actually.
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  Speaker 1: Merged those two together.
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  Speaker 3: Still haven't provided it to us, and now they're talking
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  Speaker 3: about reviewing the Fisheries Act further. If first of all,
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  Speaker 3: what's in that consultancy, secondly, what's been agreed or is
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  Speaker 3: being planned to be agreed in the lead up to
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  Speaker 3: the full Council meeting that's happening in the next couple
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  Speaker 3: of weeks, and then what does that mean. We were
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  Speaker 3: told on the ABC last week by the Minister for
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  Speaker 3: Aboriginal Affairs that the Government does not consult, does not
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  Speaker 3: negotiate with the seafood sector or the recreational fishing sector,
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  Speaker 3: and that it only negotiates with the Northern Land Council
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  Speaker 3: because it represents landowners and you know, to be honest
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  Speaker 3: with you when you're talking about major policy reform over
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  Speaker 3: an area worth hundreds of millions of dollars and impacts
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  Speaker 3: tens of thousands of Territorians. To say that you won't
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  Speaker 3: negotiate with major stakeholders and parties when you're politically reforming
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  Speaker 3: legislation is just beyond the pale.
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  Speaker 2: You sound like you're annoyed, David, and rightly so, well.
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  Speaker 3: Look I am, because you know to be honest, To
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  Speaker 3: be honest with you, Katie, the phone has and stop bringing.
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  Speaker 3: We've had businesses from all over the territory contacting us.
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  Speaker 3: We've had recreational fishes. We've had messages from people saying
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  Speaker 3: that's it, I'm done. This doesn't feel like my home anymore.
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  Speaker 3: I don't want to live here anymore. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, we're a big organization
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  Speaker 3: that represents a lot of people, but we're a small
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  Speaker 3: team and we've got a lot of people who are hurting,
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  Speaker 3: contacting us continually and it doesn't feel like the government
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  Speaker 3: is listening to them. Now. This was all set in
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  Speaker 3: train by the previous Chief Minister prior to the election.
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  Speaker 3: We've met with the Chief Minister to discuss our concerns
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  Speaker 3: along with the Seafood Council. We hope she can take
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  Speaker 3: a pair of fresh eyes to this and press reset.
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  Speaker 1: We're not saying not.
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  Speaker 3: To review the Fisheries Act or to make progress here.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of the Government's delivered a lot of things
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  Speaker 3: to improve traditional loaners abilities to run businesses on country
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  Speaker 3: with the reviews and changes to the Aboriginal Coastal License.
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  Speaker 3: They provided ten million dollars to the Aboriginal Sea Company.
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  Speaker 3: They've reviewed and the objects of the Act. So the
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  Speaker 3: government has been delivering. Meanwhile, fishers have been losing access
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  Speaker 3: and now we're in a situation where there is more
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  Speaker 3: uncertainty and we are really really afraid that they're going
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  Speaker 3: to do that by an agreement, which then means later
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  Speaker 3: on when things arise at are fundamental problems for us,
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  Speaker 3: they get railroaded through because they've already signed a deal.
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  Speaker 3: So this is why people are worried. There is so
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  Speaker 3: much uncertainty. Come January one, a lot of people don't
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  Speaker 3: know if they're going to be able to operate their
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  Speaker 3: businesses where they currently can operate it. Recreational fishers don't
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  Speaker 3: know if they're going to be welcome in places that
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  Speaker 3: they've been welcome ever since they were born in the
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  Speaker 3: territory or ever since they've lived in the territory. And
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  Speaker 3: it seems like it's acceptable that people just find out
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  Speaker 3: whenever it gets announced and they just have to live
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  Speaker 3: with the consequences, and that really is not good enough.
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  Speaker 2: Now, what is the Minister for Fisheries, Paul Kirby saying,
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  Speaker 2: because he attended your AGM recently, didn't.
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  Speaker 1: He Well, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: We had both ministers in attendance at our AGM, and
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  Speaker 3: I guess this highlights the complexity of the issue.
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  Speaker 1: We've had major fisheries.
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  Speaker 3: Reforms taken away from the Fisheries Minister and the Department
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  Speaker 3: of Fisheries and been led out of the Aboriginal Strategic
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  Speaker 3: Policy Unit, which is embedded within the Department of Chief
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  Speaker 3: Minister and Cabinet. And so, look, we enjoy a good
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  Speaker 3: working relationship with Minister Kirby. Minister Kirby has been aware
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  Speaker 3: of our concerns, has been working with us on our concerns.
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  Speaker 3: But we're in a situation where effectively he is not
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  Speaker 3: the minister who is the lead or in control of
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  Speaker 3: this and so I guess you have to ask him
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  Speaker 3: as how he's being received in cabinet with the concerns
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  Speaker 3: that I presume he's raising on our behalf.
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, I think it's going to be a concern
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  Speaker 2: right across the board for so many Territorians. And we
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  Speaker 2: all agree, you know, and we've spoken about this before,
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  Speaker 2: that the rights of traditional owners obviously need to be acknowledged.
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  Speaker 2: We all one hundred percent to understand that. But there
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  Speaker 2: seems as though there is so much uncertainty at this
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  Speaker 2: point in terms of not only recreational fishes, the seafood
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  Speaker 2: counselor as well, so for them it's business too.
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  Speaker 3: Well, look, absolutely, Katy, it's really important to recognize that
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  Speaker 3: the rights of traditional owners were established in the High
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  Speaker 3: Court decision in two thousand and eight. People need a
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  Speaker 3: permit to access aboriginal waters.
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  Speaker 1: That's the law.
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  Speaker 3: There's actually never been anything stopping that from being in place,
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  Speaker 3: except for the fact that everybody recognizes they could be
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  Speaker 3: a better way forward by having a working permit system
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  Speaker 3: or by having a series of agreements where other benefits
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  Speaker 3: could be included for traditional owners, and so that's why
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  Speaker 3: the NLC has been negotiating. But things have really ground
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  Speaker 3: to a holt that no new deals for access have
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  Speaker 3: really been agreed since twenty fifteen, and people have been
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  Speaker 3: losing access to places. Meanwhile, the government has been delivering
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  Speaker 3: on lots of things that's been adding to it, including
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  Speaker 3: things that are unrelated to access. So for example, we've
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  Speaker 3: heard the Minister talk about the review is related to access,
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  Speaker 3: but I mean it absolutely beyond the paal. No one
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  Speaker 3: would surely believe that an Act review is going to
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  Speaker 3: mean that a particular land trust is going to say, okay,
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  Speaker 3: now we're happy, we're going to negotiate, when we know
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  Speaker 3: a lot of those land trusts have never even seen
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  Speaker 3: or had the genuine opportunity to enter into proper negotiations.
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  Speaker 3: And so why is the chain being dragged on these negotiations.
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  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the government is moving through.
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  Speaker 3: On its commitments, but the recreational and commercial fishing sectors
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  Speaker 3: are being left behind.
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  Speaker 1: And these are so many jobs in.
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  Speaker 3: Darwin and around the territory. You know, I've had people
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  Speaker 3: talking to me about twenty jobs that hang in the
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  Speaker 3: balance based on one particular business in where one particular
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  Speaker 3: land claim might be granted next year. These people don't
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  Speaker 3: know if they're going to have a job next year
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  Speaker 3: and it doesn't feel like you could have much faith
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  Speaker 3: that a reasonable outcome will be brought about. It of
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  Speaker 3: course needs to respect the rights of traditional owners, but
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  Speaker 3: also needs to acknowledge that right around Australia rivers and
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  Speaker 3: coastlines are places that are of fundamental importance to Australians
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  Speaker 3: and Australian businesses and a better way forward has to
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  Speaker 3: be broken by the territory. Otherwise it is really not
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  Speaker 3: achieving what is the best possible outcome for the territory
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  Speaker 3: as a whole.
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  Speaker 2: David, where to from here? Who's dragging the chain?
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  Speaker 1: Well?
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  Speaker 3: Where to from here is very very important. All eyes
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  Speaker 3: are going to be on what gets announced at the
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  Speaker 3: Full Council of the Northern Land Council coming up soon
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  Speaker 3: in December. If that includes a signed deal to continue
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  Speaker 3: to work on the change the Fisheries Act, well then
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  Speaker 3: I think you know, all bets are off. Basically we
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  Speaker 3: will be in a very very disturbing place where if
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  Speaker 3: that review is going to be led by any agency
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  Speaker 3: other than to the Fisheries Agency, which is the agency
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  Speaker 3: that should be responsible for this, I don't know how
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  Speaker 3: the recreation, fishing sector and the seafood sector can have
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  Speaker 3: any confidence in that process. So we are in very
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  Speaker 3: uncertain times and I just hope that common sense prevails.
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  Speaker 3: I hope that the Chief Minister is able to put
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  Speaker 3: her stamp on this to say, hey, listen, things have
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  Speaker 3: got away from where we want them to go. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: we want to deliver for traditional owners, but we also
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  Speaker 3: want to deliver for recreational fishes and fishing tour operators
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  Speaker 3: and seafood industry and I think we can do a
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  Speaker 3: better find a better way forward. We need to have
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  Speaker 3: a policy statement from the government about why they want
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  Speaker 3: to review the Act and outline open, transparent and wholly
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  Speaker 3: inclusive process. We've written to the Chief Minister. We've asked
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  Speaker 3: for her to provide that consultancy report to us, so
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  Speaker 3: we're no longer in the dark, and we really hope
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  Speaker 3: that we received that this week.
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  Speaker 2: And so no word from her office at this point
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  Speaker 2: in time as to whether you are going to receive
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  Speaker 2: that or whether they're going to sit down with you.
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  Speaker 3: So we've sat down with the Chief Minister a couple
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  Speaker 3: of weeks ago. We had what I believe was a
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  Speaker 3: fair hearing from the Chief Minister. We've obviously been talking
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  Speaker 3: to the Fisheries Minister quite a lot. We've written last
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  Speaker 3: week to DCM and to the Chief Minister. I think
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  Speaker 3: it's still within a fair amount of time for them
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  Speaker 3: to respond to us, but we do expect a response
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  Speaker 3: this week, and if we don't get that response, then
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  Speaker 3: obviously we'd have to look at well, how can we
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  Speaker 3: get access to this information. But right now I think
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  Speaker 3: we're just awaiting a response and I think hopefully we'll
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  Speaker 3: get that in the next couple of days.
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  Speaker 2: Well, David Gerovolo, please keep us up to date. I
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  Speaker 2: know that our listeners are really going to want to
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  Speaker 2: know what answers are provided. So many of them fish
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  Speaker 2: and enjoy the waterways here in the territory, and everybody
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  Speaker 2: wants to be able to work together to ensure that
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  Speaker 2: that can continue to happen.
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  Speaker 3: I look absolutely, Katie. We've got so many territories whose
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  Speaker 3: mental health is taking a nose die because of this,
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  Speaker 3: because either their businesses, all the things that are so
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  Speaker 3: near and dear to their heart are facing uncertainty of
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  Speaker 3: being taken away from them, and we really have to
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  Speaker 3: find a better way forward. And of course we'll keep
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  Speaker 3: you and your listeners in the loop.
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  Speaker 2: David, thanks so much for your time this morning. Very
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  Speaker 2: much appreciate it.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie, thank you