Latest / Karl and Crew / Ministering to Women with Dr. Pamela McRae & Taking the Gospel to TikTok with York Moore

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Ministering to Women with Dr. Pamela McRae & Taking the Gospel to TikTok with York Moore · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
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  S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S5: You know when you are at the airport and it's
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  S5: time to board. Mhm.
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  S2: They call you in groups?
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  S3: Yes.
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  S2: And undoubtedly, If you're in a group like seven. Yeah.
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  S2: Like as they start calling more and more groups.
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  S4: Those were in gray canal board, those wearing blue canal board.
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  S2: And it starts with like families with young children.
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  S3: Oh, I love that phase of life.
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  S2: That's yeah.
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  S3: It's been the best thing ever.
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  S2: That's right. Military.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S2: Of course. Um, those who need extra assistance sure. Get
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  S2: to board first.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S2: And then you go group one. Group one proudly, proudly
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  S2: stands up, marches their way.
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  S3: I paid more for this.
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  S2: Yeah. Group seven starts to get a little anxious, and
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  S2: they start kind of forming like a little semicircle, like
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  S2: standing just far enough back so as not to be
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  S2: in the way, but close enough so that the minute
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  S2: group seven is called. They can make a bolt to
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  S2: be like, not the very last one on the plane
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  S2: where you've got no overhead luggage space.
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  S3: Yeah. And that in all honesty, that's kind of the
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  S3: only place where I've seen it really matter is overhead luggage.
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  S3: Unless you were on southwest where, you know, and they,
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  S3: they even changed this where like the seats weren't assigned.
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  S3: You got your assigned seat. Just who cares if you're
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  S3: last you're sitting in the same spot.
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  S2: It's the baggage thing.
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  S3: It's the baggage thing.
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  S2: It's the baggage thing and the experience, it being a
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  S2: a more relaxed experience. Although the irony. My kids are
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  S2: bigger now, but when my kids were little, I didn't
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  S2: necessarily want to get on the plane first. Why? Only
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  S2: because they're already going to be on the plane for
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  S2: so long. Yeah, especially for like I did a lot
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  S2: of international travel when my kids were young. So I'm like,
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  S2: I'm not getting on and then sit there for 45
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  S2: minutes before we even get off the ground.
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  S4: Exactly.
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  S2: And like, run around, burn off some energy here in
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  S2: the airport.
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  S3: A little bit. I guess that makes sense for me.
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  S3: So my daughter, every time we've flown so far, she's
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  S3: only she's had to be in a car seat that's
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  S3: strapped in a thing. And so I don't want to
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  S3: do that last on the plane while I'm, you know,
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  S3: leaning over people trying to get this thing strapped in.
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  S3: And so I need to be on there first. But
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  S3: I'm also very happy because I also don't want to
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  S3: stand in a slow moving line with a one year old.
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  S3: I'd like to just get moving.
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  S2: We like to find ways to, um, take advantage of perks.
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  S3: 100%.
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  S2: That's why you have probably apps on your phone for
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  S2: the different places that you either buy food often.
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  S4: For sure.
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  S2: You have airline rewards, loyalty points, right? Some people try
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  S2: to stick to a particular. Yeah. And why do we
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  S2: like to do that? Why do we gravitate towards rewards clubs,
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  S2: even TSA PreCheck? I'm definitely a fan of TSA PreCheck,
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  S2: although now that most people have it in bigger cities,
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  S2: it's kind of like.
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  S3: Yeah, it's how much time is it saved?
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  S2: There's there's something that honestly delights me when I go
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  S2: get up to. And I see two different lines and
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  S2: one of them is snaking around like, and you can
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  S2: tell that's going to be like a 45 minute line.
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  S2: And then you go to that either clear or TSA PreCheck,
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  S2: and you see it's like a quarter of the length. Yes.
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  S2: And then you just zip through the little stanchions and
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  S2: you're already, you know, maybe 20 from the front.
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  S3: Yeah, absolutely. Benefits make you feel special.
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  S2: They make you feel good, right?
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  S3: Absolutely. 100%. It's, uh, you know, Costco food court. You're
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  S3: telling me I can, I can get a membership here
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  S3: and I can, I can pay just $1.50 for a
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  S3: foot long hot dog and a drink. Come on. That
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  S3: sounds amazing.
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  S4: Right?
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  S2: That's. Prices stayed the same.
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  S3: I can't. It doesn't make any sense.
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  S4: I mean, scary, but.
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  S3: They take they take a lot of losses on, like,
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  S3: rotisserie chicken and food court because they know you'll buy
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  S3: all the other things too.
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  S2: Because they know you're going to buy a case of.
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  S3: 100%.
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  S2: Whatever, because you never go to Costco to sample anything.
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  S2: Although the samples are.
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  S3: Samples are.
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  S2: Great, but like a product, like you can't like try it.
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  S3: No, because you're getting 50 of them.
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  S2: And if you don't like it, well, I guess you
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  S2: could return it.
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  S3: You could, But.
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  S2: But I digress.
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  S4: You bought like. Yeah.
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  S3: You can't eat six burgers and go. I didn't like
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  S3: these burgers. I'm returning them.
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  S2: Back to the perks. Whether it's the cutting the of
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  S2: the line or getting into a shorter line. How would
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  S2: you feel? Let's take, um, let's take our example of
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  S2: the of the airport group numbers. You are in group seven.
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  S3: Okay.
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  S2: You wait your turn. Yes. You noticed somebody with maybe
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  S2: traveling a group of friends. You happen to see their
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  S2: boarding pass? They they have boarding group eight. But you
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  S2: happen to notice when boarding group four is called, they
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  S2: just kind of slip into the line.
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  S3: I've seen.
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  S2: It. How do you feel about that?
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  S3: Ooh, injustice. Let's bring the hammer down upon him. Maybe
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  S3: they should miss their whole flight for trying to do this.
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  S2: How dare they?
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  S3: How dare they? I'm sitting back here waiting my turn.
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  S3: And you're just gonna to jump in the front. That's wrong.
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  S2: It's hard wired in us, isn't it?
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  S3: 100%. I'd say we get a whole kangaroo court right
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  S3: here in this airport.
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  S2: We feel like if special privileges apply to us, other
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  S2: people who don't have special privileges.
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  S4: Get out of the way.
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  S2: Should not be able to just jump in. Correct? Right.
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  S3: Yes.
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  S2: I bet you could tell I'm going here. Going somewhere
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  S2: with this for sure. Oh, we're going back to the
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  S2: parables on this back to school week. We've got a
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  S2: lot to learn when it comes to the upside down
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  S2: kingdom of God.
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  S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
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  S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
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  S1: Moody Radio.
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  S2: We are hard wired to crave a sense of fairness. Yes, justice.
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  S4: Yes.
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  S2: But there's layers to it because there's the kind of justice. That's.
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  S2: I want somebody who does something wrong. I don't want
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  S2: that to go unpunished. Sure. I don't want to. There.
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  S2: We feel dissatisfied when a crime goes unsolved. There's a
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  S2: reason why they have cold case units.
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  S3: Yeah, because people, they don't want to stop looking. Because
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  S3: it's right that a person pays for their crimes.
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  S2: There's this sense that no justice demands that somebody be
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  S2: held accountable. Right. So there's that sense of hardwired desire
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  S2: for justice. But there's this other hardwired sense that leans
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  S2: a little bit more towards entitlement. It's not, I want
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  S2: something that's done wrong to be made right. It's, I
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  S2: want something that I deserve, and I don't want someone
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  S2: who doesn't deserve it to get it to.
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  S3: Yeah, absolutely. This is mine. It shouldn't. I worked for this.
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  S3: I did this, I earned it on my own. Yes.
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  S3: Why do they get to do what I get to
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  S3: do when they didn't work as hard?
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  S2: And it's the whole reason why we you think about
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  S2: the way we function in traffic. People get irate when
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  S2: there's a merge kind of in everybody's sort of zippers in. Oh,
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  S2: but some guy.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Drives on the shoulder.
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  S3: Oh man. That's me. I get irate about that.
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  S2: Goes all the way up to the front. And then
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  S2: he has the audacity to.
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  S3: Put his little blinker on.
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  S2: To kind of insert themselves in. Yeah. Or when there's
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  S2: a line at the grocery store, it is just it
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  S2: is an unwritten rule. When you come, you wait your turn.
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  S3: Yes.
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  S2: It's not that there's a crime that needs to be
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  S2: accounted for.
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  S3: It says you.
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  S2: It's that we feel like I'm entitled to certain things.
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  S2: And other people should have to go through the same
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  S2: process and come after, of course.
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  S3: 100%.
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  S2: Wait, let's go to Matthew 19.
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  S3: Don't do it. I'm just kidding.
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  S4: Don't do.
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  S2: It. You know, Jesus tells a number of parables that
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  S2: start with the kingdom of God is like. Yes. To
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  S2: help bring understanding to those who have ears to hear
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  S2: of what the Kingdom of God is like. And spoiler alert,
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  S2: it's an upside down kingdom. So all of the things
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  S2: that the disciples and for us then and now understand
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  S2: kind of innately to be true about the world that
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  S2: we live in, Jesus has a way of flipping it
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  S2: upside down. Before I get to the parable that we're
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  S2: going to talk about in Matthew 20, I want to
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  S2: give you a setup from Matthew 19. So you can
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  S2: kind of we can kind of put ourselves in the
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  S2: shoes of the disciples as they would be hearing this
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  S2: and understanding it. So a series of things happen prior
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  S2: to the telling of this parable. It's the parable of
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  S2: the laborers in the vineyard. But prior to that, Jesus
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  S2: blesses children. Do we remember that when they. He says,
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  S2: let the children come to me. Do not hinder them.
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  S2: He welcomes in children.
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  S3: As the disciples turned them away.
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  S2: Exactly. For to such belongs the kingdom of heaven. That's
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  S2: Matthew 19, verse 14, that's directly followed by his encounter
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  S2: with the rich young ruler, a man who comes up
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  S2: to him. He's got great wealth. And he says, teacher,
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  S2: what good deed must I do to have eternal life?
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  S2: In other words, how can I earn my eternal life?
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  S2: What do I have to do? And so Jesus has
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  S2: this fascinating exchange with him where the rich young ruler
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  S2: ends up kind of congratulating himself on, I have done
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  S2: all of these things.
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  S3: Yes. Fantastic.
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  S2: Look at.
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  S3: Me. I've got it.
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  S2: I should be welcomed on in.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S2: But Jesus kind of gives him the kicker. If you
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  S2: would be perfect, go sell what you possess and give
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  S2: to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
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  S2: And come, follow me. The young man walks away sorrowful,
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  S2: for he had great possessions. Jesus was exposing his heart
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  S2: that really he loved his wealth and his riches more
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  S2: than he desire. That he had to follow Jesus.
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  S3: Correct.
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  S2: So the disciples are taking this all in and they
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  S2: hear them. Jesus turned the young ruler away, not because
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  S2: he doesn't love him, but because his heart has been exposed.
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  S2: Jesus said to his disciples, truly I say to you,
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  S2: only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom
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  S2: of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for
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  S2: a camel to go through the eye of a needle
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  S2: than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
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  S2: The disciples, at this point they are astonished.
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  S3: Yes.
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  S2: Who can be saved? Because that's possible here.
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  S3: Culturally, they thought, you know, wealth was a sign of
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  S3: blessing from God, which in a lot of senses, it
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  S3: absolutely is. But they were like, well, if a rich
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  S3: person can't be saved and they're blessed from God, then
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  S3: what chance do I have?
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  S2: Peter says, we've left everything to follow you. What? What
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  S2: will we have? And Jesus reassures them that everyone who
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  S2: has left houses, or brothers or sisters or fathers or
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  S2: mothers or children or lands for my name's sake, will
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  S2: receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. But many
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  S2: who are first will be last and the last first.
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  S2: Want you to, in your mind, put a pin in
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  S2: that last little statement. Many who are first will be
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  S2: last and the last first, because that's going to come
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  S2: back in just a couple of verses. But think about
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  S2: this for just a second. So many who are first
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  S2: will be last. The rich young ruler in most contexts
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  S2: would be ushered to the front of the line. Right?
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  S3: Absolutely.
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  S2: Wealth got you a lot of influence. Power. Prestige. Position. Yes. Correct.
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  S2: And then you have these young children who should be
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  S2: at the back of the line, but yet Jesus brings
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  S2: them to the front of the line. Right. Because he
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  S2: says such belonged to the to the kingdom of heaven
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  S2: belongs to such as these, those with childlike faith. Yeah.
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  S2: So this any sort of ordering system that they would
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  S2: be familiar with. Jesus is turning upside down wealth. Mhm.
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  S2: That's not going to get it. But children who offer nothing,
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  S2: who don't have any influence, Jesus says the kingdom of
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  S2: heaven belongs to these. Then we're going to get to
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  S2: Matthew 20 coming up. The first will be last and
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  S2: the last first. The disciples at this point have to
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  S2: probably be feeling pretty good.
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  S3: I think so.
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  S2: Yeah. This is this is good news for us. It
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  S2: goes on. The news is still good, but there's more
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  S2: flipping upside down. Jesus is not done yet. More coming
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  S2: up here on Carl and crew.
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  S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to
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  S1: Carl and crew.
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  S2: When Peter asks Jesus, we've left everything and followed you.
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  S2: What then will we have? Jesus reassures him. He reassures
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  S2: the disciples that there will be great reward for them.
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  S2: Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or
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  S2: father or mother or children or lands for my name's sake,
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  S2: will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. That
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  S2: had to be really comforting to hear.
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  S3: Oh my goodness. Yeah. They're like, okay, it's so quiet
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  S3: in here. I'm on the right path with Jesus.
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  S2: But many who are first will be last and the
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  S2: last first. That's the last verse of verse 19. And
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  S2: then he continues verse in the chapter 20. He continues,
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  S2: the thought for the kingdom of heaven is like. So
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  S2: this is a continuation of this whole instruction. And then
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  S2: he goes on. I'm going to summarize some of this
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  S2: to tell them about a parable about a master of
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  S2: a house who goes out early in the morning to
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  S2: hire laborers for his vineyard. He agrees with the laborers
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  S2: that he's going to pay them a denarius, which is
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  S2: the equivalent of one day's wages to work for the day.
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  S2: And he sends them off to work in the vineyard.
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  S2: A couple hours past this landowner. He sees some other
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  S2: people standing who don't have work. So he says, come on,
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  S2: you can work in the field to the vineyard. Another
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  S2: three hours passed. Now, the 11th hour, he goes out
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  S2: and he finds more standing around, not working. He invites
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  S2: them in. Why do you stand here idle all day?
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  S2: He said, no one has hired us. And he says,
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  S2: you go into the vineyard too. So then evening comes.
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  S2: The owner says to his foreman, call the laborers, gather
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  S2: everybody around. It's time to pay them their wages, beginning
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  S2: with the last up to the first. Now I'm going
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  S2: to read to you. This is Matthew 20, starting with
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  S2: verse nine. And when those hired about the 11th hour came,
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  S2: each of them received a denarius. Now when those hired
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  S2: first came, they thought they would receive more, but each
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  S2: of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it,
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  S2: they grumbled at the master of the house, saying, these
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  S2: last worked only one hour, and you have made them
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  S2: equal to us who have borne the burden of the
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  S2: day and the scorching heat. Imagine this for a minute.
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  S2: And this is a parable. So this didn't actually happen,
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  S2: but this was a parable, right? The people who were
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  S2: hired in the 11th hour were paid first, and were
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  S2: paid the same amount as those who had worked the
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  S2: entire day. This seems really unfair in this parable, right?
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  S3: Sure. Absolutely. It does.
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  S4: Definitely on the surface, of course.
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  S2: And you can identify with that feeling.
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  S3: Yeah, I worked harder, I did more, I should make more.
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  S2: I have TSA PreCheck. Don't you know.
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  S4: There's a tinge going hey, wait a minute.
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  S2: You don't have TSA PreCheck. You shouldn't be in this line.
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  S2: I'm supposed to be in front.
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  S3: Absolutely.
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  S2: Matthew 20, verse 13. But he replied to one of them, friend,
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  S2: I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree
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  S2: with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you
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  S2: and go. I choose to give to this last worker
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  S2: as I give to you. And then verse 15, am
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  S2: I not allowed to do what I choose with what
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  S2: belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? So
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  S2: the last will be first and the first last. Got
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  S2: a bit of a full circle moment here, right?
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  S4: Absolutely.
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  S2: So the disciples, their understanding of the kingdom of God
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  S2: that any sort of riches or wealth would get you
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  S2: to the front of the line. No no no no,
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  S2: that's not how it works. The first will be last
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  S2: and the last will be first. But also any sort
• 17:39
  S2: of notion that the people who were to come after
• 17:43
  S2: them should not be granted the same generosity afforded to them.
• 17:50
  S2: It's not a system of merit. It's not how hard
• 17:53
  S2: that you can work. It's not how many hours you
• 17:56
  S2: put in. The landowner clearly representing God here, does he
• 18:01
  S2: not have the right? Do we begrudge his generosity because
• 18:05
  S2: he's generous to other people? In the same way he's
• 18:09
  S2: been generous to us? Or they felt like even though
• 18:14
  S2: a denarius was what was agreed upon from the very beginning,
• 18:18
  S2: they didn't want the person who came in the 11th
• 18:21
  S2: hour to get the same thing.
• 18:23
  S3: Exactly.
• 18:23
  S2: Felt very unfair.
• 18:25
  S3: Because they did more.
• 18:27
  S2: The last will be first and the first last.
• 18:31
  S3: I mean, this is perfectly played out in The Thief
• 18:35
  S3: on the cross.
• 18:36
  S2: Yeah.
• 18:36
  S3: You know, he he literally had no opportunity to go
• 18:40
  S3: do anything in life. If we're talking about working a
• 18:44
  S3: certain amount of hours, it's like he came in in
• 18:47
  S3: the final minute and just showed up and then got
• 18:49
  S3: paid like that. There was no time to live for Jesus,
• 18:54
  S3: for him, other than the last few hours he had
• 18:56
  S3: on the cross to, to to believe in him and
• 18:59
  S3: surrender himself to him. None of us would sit here
• 19:03
  S3: and go, well, that's not really fair.
• 19:06
  S2: It's not.
• 19:06
  S3: Fair. I lived for Jesus for five years. Ten years,
• 19:09
  S3: 15 years. Why should he get salvation? And I just
• 19:12
  S3: get the exact same thing.
• 19:14
  S4: It's God's grace. And how do you. You can not
• 19:18
  S4: question God's grace. It's for all. It's for everyone.
• 19:23
  S2: It reveals a thinking when we take the obvious application
• 19:27
  S2: of this did we did. Do we receive the grace
• 19:31
  S2: of God because we earned it? No, because we worked
• 19:34
  S2: harder or longer than someone else?
• 19:37
  S3: No. Certainly not. We better not think that.
• 19:39
  S2: Do we begrudge the God whose character is so generous
• 19:43
  S2: that he welcomes children, that he welcomes sinners, that he
• 19:49
  S2: turns everything upside down? I love this parable.
• 19:53
  S3: I do too. I think it's a fantastic, fantastic teaching
• 19:59
  S3: that shows really none of us earn anything.
• 20:03
  S4: No, no.
• 20:04
  S2: Now, this does not suggest that there are not rewards
• 20:08
  S2: in heaven. Degrees of rewards. We see that elsewhere in Scripture.
• 20:12
  S2: But when we think of the grace of God that
• 20:14
  S2: is freely extended to those who will turn to him
• 20:20
  S2: and come. Mhm. We don't want to be the type
• 20:24
  S2: of people who apply a worldly standard to God's grace.
• 20:31
  S4: I think this is a parable of maturity, spiritual maturity
• 20:33
  S4: as well. Because absolutely, it's like, hey, I'm first in
• 20:36
  S4: the TSA line, but you know what? Go ahead. I
• 20:39
  S4: want you to have the benefits and the joy of
• 20:42
  S4: these same gifts and benefits of this grace. Yes. You
• 20:46
  S4: know what? Go ahead of me. It's okay.
• 20:48
  S2: For the kingdom of heaven is like. That's what it
• 20:51
  S2: starts with. That's what he wanted them to understand. You
• 20:54
  S2: want to know what the kingdom of heaven is like?
• 20:57
  S2: The last will be first, and the first will be last.
• 21:00
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 21:04
  S2: Well, continuing our theme Back to School week as we
• 21:07
  S2: are inviting Moody Bible Institute professors into studio to teach
• 21:11
  S2: just a little bit of what they are teaching their
• 21:13
  S2: classes this semester. Doctor Pam McRae is joining us, professor
• 21:16
  S2: and the program head for Ministry to Women right here
• 21:19
  S2: at Moody Bible Institute. Also ministry to victims of sexual Exploitation.
• 21:24
  S2: When you. Your approach to welcoming students in studying women
• 21:29
  S2: of the Bible is that usually a highly sought after course?
• 21:33
  S2: Or do people come in. They're going, what are we
• 21:35
  S2: going to learn in this class? How many women are
• 21:37
  S2: there to study in the Bible?
• 21:38
  S6: Well, that's a very good question, because I think that
• 21:41
  S6: regularly I have students who don't know women in the Bible.
• 21:45
  S6: And so I think they're interested, you know, women in
• 21:48
  S6: the church right now is, I think, very interesting. And
• 21:54
  S6: topics are very public and conversations happen all the time. Sure.
• 22:00
  S2: So sometimes controversial.
• 22:03
  S6: Yeah. Well, you know, but that's good. It garners interest
• 22:08
  S6: when it's controversial.
• 22:09
  S2: Yeah. Why is this exciting for you personally to teach?
• 22:13
  S6: Because I think it's fabulous. And that when we know
• 22:17
  S6: how God has used women in the Scripture, it helps
• 22:21
  S6: us have a vision for how he can use us now.
• 22:25
  S6: And so, I mean, some of the women in Scripture
• 22:29
  S6: are surprising to many of my students.
• 22:32
  S2: Let's let's start there then. Who are some of the
• 22:34
  S2: women in Scripture who are most surprising to your students?
• 22:38
  S6: Well, you know what women can say about Scripture or
• 22:43
  S6: how we speak the Word of God to other people
• 22:46
  S6: is often, um, a curious topic. And there are some
• 22:52
  S6: ways in which sometimes women feel limited in, in various settings.
• 22:58
  S6: And so I like to go back and talk about
• 23:00
  S6: how God gave us shepherds in the Old Testament to
• 23:05
  S6: be the ones he was, you know, Israel was a theocracy.
• 23:10
  S6: And so he was king over all. Yeah. But he
• 23:13
  S6: gave people positions to take care of his people. And
• 23:19
  S6: so he gave the nation they had a king. So
• 23:22
  S6: we think of let's think of David, a man after
• 23:26
  S6: God's own heart. So God gave the nation kings to
• 23:30
  S6: send them in their ways to follow the Lord. So
• 23:35
  S6: the king was responsible for that, responsible for other governmental things,
• 23:39
  S6: you know, building roads, building the kingdom. And so then
• 23:42
  S6: God gave the priests who were in charge of the
• 23:46
  S6: temple and sacrifices and would go in to have conversation
• 23:50
  S6: with God about his people. So the priest spoke to
• 23:55
  S6: God about the people of God. And then there were
• 23:58
  S6: prophets who would receive the message of God to give
• 24:02
  S6: to the people of God. And we know there were
• 24:04
  S6: prophetesses both in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
• 24:07
  S6: So when I talk about Huldah, who was one of
• 24:11
  S6: the prophetesses that we have probably more of her content
• 24:17
  S6: that she gave not only to the high priests and
• 24:21
  S6: the leaders of. For King Josiah she spoke the very
• 24:25
  S6: words of God to the people of God. To the
• 24:28
  S6: men who were in leadership and took the message back
• 24:31
  S6: to King Josiah. And so I'd like to talk about
• 24:34
  S6: how that shapes and forms some of our questions that
• 24:38
  S6: we have about women doing God's work now.
• 24:42
  S2: So, Huldah, is that Huldah?
• 24:44
  S6: HULDA.
• 24:46
  S2: And where do we see her? In Scripture.
• 24:48
  S6: Well, we find her in Scripture in Second Kings, chapter
• 24:51
  S6: 22 and in second Chronicles 34. And so that's the
• 24:56
  S6: place where Josiah is given the word of the Lord
• 24:59
  S6: from the temple that they found when they were doing renovations.
• 25:02
  S6: And he tears his clothes because he realized the weightiness
• 25:06
  S6: of having neglected the word of God. But now having
• 25:08
  S6: found the Word of God, and he said, we need
• 25:10
  S6: to find out what this means. And so he sent
• 25:13
  S6: his top officials to go speak to Huldah and get
• 25:17
  S6: a word from the Lord.
• 25:18
  S2: Amazing. Doctor Pam McCray with us for Back to School week. So,
• 25:22
  S2: doctor McCray, Ministry to women is a major that's offered here.
• 25:25
  S2: And one of the courses, Ministry to Women in Pain.
• 25:28
  S2: Tell me a little bit more about that.
• 25:30
  S6: Yeah. I teach two classes that relate to that topic,
• 25:35
  S6: and it started with ministry to Women in Pain. And
• 25:38
  S6: what we talk about is, um, how do we understand
• 25:41
  S6: suffering as it relates to God's intervention in our life?
• 25:45
  S6: And that's really hard. It's really hard when we're going
• 25:49
  S6: through difficult times to think God knows what's going on,
• 25:54
  S6: how come he doesn't just like fix this? And so
• 25:57
  S6: we talk about that. But then we read a book
• 26:00
  S6: called Shepherding Women in Pain that goes through about 20 different, um,
• 26:05
  S6: experiences that women have that, that are suffering like depression, anxiety, miscarriages,
• 26:11
  S6: incarcerated relatives, Um, sexuality. And so we study these kinds
• 26:18
  S6: of experiences and help students know how to care well,
• 26:23
  S6: and how to have a biblical perspective on what it
• 26:26
  S6: means to help people who are suffering. And then I
• 26:31
  S6: also teach similar kinds of contents for a class called
• 26:35
  S6: Pastoral Care of Women where, um, you know, Moody has
• 26:39
  S6: both men and women in pastoral studies department, but I
• 26:42
  S6: get to take all the male pastoral majors and then
• 26:45
  S6: have a whole class that they're required to take a
• 26:47
  S6: three hour class on. How are they able to understand
• 26:51
  S6: how to pastor and shepherd women appropriately? And, and with
• 26:57
  S6: the kind of attention that a pastor needs to give
• 27:01
  S6: to his flock. And so I'm so thankful to be
• 27:04
  S6: able to do that because there's a lot of question
• 27:07
  S6: about that. And we know from Ezekiel 34 that God
• 27:12
  S6: does not take kindly to shepherds who don't shepherd the flock.
• 27:16
  S6: And so pastors. And then also, I think we all
• 27:19
  S6: are required to care for the ones that God brings
• 27:24
  S6: in our pathway. Um, men and women, boys and girls.
• 27:27
  S6: And so we need to not neglect those who are
• 27:30
  S6: suffering around us.
• 27:32
  S2: Now, in your study, both personally, but also as you
• 27:35
  S2: teach the course, what's different about ministering to women in pain? Um,
• 27:40
  S2: that maybe gets overlooked because obviously there's a course on
• 27:43
  S2: it because some of the things that are maybe assumed
• 27:46
  S2: or have been relied upon in the past aren't particularly effective.
• 27:51
  S2: What are some of the ways that maybe we have
• 27:53
  S2: room to grow and are growing in that area as
• 27:56
  S2: a church?
• 27:57
  S6: Well, I think first we need to understand that we
• 28:00
  S6: minister through the spirit and by the spirit. And so
• 28:04
  S6: one of the questions I get often is, well, I've
• 28:07
  S6: never experienced that. So how would I know how to
• 28:11
  S6: care for this person. And that particularly comes in the
• 28:14
  S6: class where the male pastor says, I've you know, I've
• 28:16
  S6: never experienced things women experience. How can I minister them?
• 28:19
  S6: And I always say, there's so much that's common to
• 28:23
  S6: humanity that we can understand the pain of others, even
• 28:25
  S6: if we haven't had that particular situation. And God wants
• 28:29
  S6: us to trust him to be used by the spirit
• 28:34
  S6: and not rely on our experiences. So that's, that's one.
• 28:38
  S6: And the other is I think we sometimes think we
• 28:42
  S6: need to have the answers both biblically and kind of
• 28:47
  S6: in a counseling way so that we understand the depth
• 28:50
  S6: of the need. And I think, oh my goodness, that's
• 28:54
  S6: such a burden. Let's page back in our mind a
• 28:58
  S6: little bit and just trust that the spirit will help us.
• 29:01
  S6: We don't have to have all the knowledge to help.
• 29:06
  S6: And then thirdly, I would say there's such a ministry
• 29:10
  S6: of presence. So one of the requirements that I have
• 29:15
  S6: is from a chapel service that we had here several
• 29:19
  S6: years ago, Jill Briscoe came and talked about job. And,
• 29:25
  S6: you know, job's friends did good ministry when they came
• 29:29
  S6: and sat with him and didn't say anything. And then
• 29:32
  S6: after they'd sat with job for a while, um, they
• 29:36
  S6: started talking and they sort of, you know, from there on,
• 29:40
  S6: it was like, you know, a ministry of presence is
• 29:43
  S6: better for job right now. But, um, but that message,
• 29:48
  S6: it's so profound that people need to have a witness
• 29:53
  S6: to their pain and have somebody talk to them and
• 29:55
  S6: talk about their pain. Because we really learn a lot
• 29:59
  S6: when we speak it out loud and somebody reflects, reflects
• 30:03
  S6: back to us and says, oh, I really see that
• 30:06
  S6: you're hurting in this way. Oh, I see that this
• 30:08
  S6: happened to you. And that was just terrible. That was terrible.
• 30:11
  S6: That was wrong. Terrible. And I'm so sorry. And so
• 30:15
  S6: the Ministry of Presence is really something that God uses
• 30:18
  S6: powerfully in all of our lives.
• 30:21
  S2: Because I think the tendency and everybody will admit to
• 30:24
  S2: having done this at some point in time is to
• 30:26
  S2: want to try to jump in with a jump in
• 30:29
  S2: with a verse to apply somebody's hurting and you, your
• 30:32
  S2: intentions are good. So you want to give them a
• 30:34
  S2: verse or you want to, you know, kind of wrap
• 30:38
  S2: things up in a bow or give them the, the
• 30:40
  S2: silver lining or the other perspective or all of these
• 30:43
  S2: things that we hopefully are learning are not effective in
• 30:47
  S2: the immediacy that that ministry of presence precedes other types
• 30:52
  S2: of ministry. There's a time for giving, pointing people to
• 30:55
  S2: the Word of God. We absolutely want to be doing that.
• 30:57
  S2: But sometimes we jump too quickly to try to solve
• 31:00
  S2: and fix before showing care and compassion.
• 31:03
  S6: Yeah. Because, you know, what that often does is just
• 31:06
  S6: make the person who hears that and knows the verse
• 31:09
  S6: just feel like, and yes, I'm a failure too, and
• 31:12
  S6: I'm doing this badly, and the Lord would like me
• 31:15
  S6: to feel joy in this tremendous pain right now, when
• 31:19
  S6: maybe they need to, you know, just wait and, and,
• 31:24
  S6: and say things that are comforting. Um, because if you know,
• 31:29
  S6: this person knows the verses, it isn't necessarily the thing
• 31:34
  S6: to say at the time, but we, we do that
• 31:37
  S6: better when we're relying on the spirit the whole time
• 31:39
  S6: and just praying, Lord, should I say this or should
• 31:42
  S6: I not? Um, sometimes it relieves our angst. Yeah, we
• 31:45
  S6: want to say something that helps. And, um, so I
• 31:50
  S6: understand that. So to sit in the discomfort is hard sometimes.
• 31:55
  S6: And then the other thing we do is we say,
• 31:57
  S6: oh yeah, me too. You want to hear what happened
• 31:58
  S6: to me?
• 31:59
  S7: Yeah.
• 31:59
  S6: And that's, that's comforting in certain conversations, you know, like me,
• 32:04
  S6: if you go to lunch with your girlfriends, you sit
• 32:06
  S6: there and you have this kind of conversation back and
• 32:08
  S6: forth for hours, and it's friendship, connection. But when it's
• 32:13
  S6: the kind of thing, when we're having a conversation with
• 32:16
  S6: somebody in deep pain, um, I always suggest that when
• 32:21
  S6: you're hearing that, just ask follow up questions. Don't do anything,
• 32:26
  S6: but ask follow up questions for a while. Try to
• 32:28
  S6: find something in the story at that point that you, um,
• 32:32
  S6: ask that allows them to open up and talk more
• 32:36
  S6: about what they're going through. And, um, and there's a
• 32:39
  S6: time and place, but you know, you can't make a,
• 32:43
  S6: you can't make an outline and say, follow this outline
• 32:46
  S6: and it'll be the right thing.
• 32:48
  S2: Right?
• 32:48
  S6: I don't think the spirit gives us an outline. So, um,
• 32:52
  S6: but we do have wisdom and it just, you know,
• 32:54
  S6: the spirit applies what we need when we need it.
• 32:56
  S2: Yeah. What are you most excited about for this this
• 32:58
  S2: semester with your students?
• 33:00
  S6: You know, I just love the beginning. I just love
• 33:03
  S6: the beginning. And I look at. I have one freshman
• 33:05
  S6: class every fall spiritual formation class, and I love that.
• 33:10
  S6: I love to just see the freshmen come in. And
• 33:13
  S6: I'm excited for who God is raising up and bringing
• 33:17
  S6: to Moody. I love, love, love, love, love that.
• 33:19
  S2: That's amazing. Doctor Pam McCray, professor here at Moody Bible Institute.
• 33:23
  S2: If you want more on Moody, that's moody online, Moody
• 33:27
  S2: in person. Also an option for high schoolers to get
• 33:30
  S2: dual credit. Just text Moody to 805 557898, Moody to
• 33:36
  S2: 805 five, five, 78, 98.
• 33:39
  S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
• 33:43
  S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
• 33:47
  S1: Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 33:50
  S8: Well, everybody is looking for something.
• 33:52
  S2: Even if they can't put words to it, even if
• 33:55
  S2: they can't put a finger on it, we're all. And
• 33:57
  S2: each day we are looking for purpose. We're looking for meaning.
• 34:01
  S2: We're looking for fulfillment. Sometimes looking for pleasure. Our York
• 34:04
  S2: more our guests. Right now he's a gifted speaker revivalist.
• 34:08
  S2: He's an accomplished TikToker. Yes. Yeah. We'll get to that
• 34:12
  S2: in a minute. He's the currently the president CEO and
• 34:14
  S2: national evangelist for the coalition for Christian Outreach. You are
• 34:18
  S2: active in ministry. Are York more. But before that you
• 34:22
  S2: were a college kid looking for something. What was it
• 34:26
  S2: you were looking for?
• 34:27
  S9: Well, I was an unusual college student because I wasn't
• 34:30
  S9: looking for a good job or a spouse. I went
• 34:33
  S9: to college searching for the meaning of the universe. I
• 34:36
  S9: was raised by atheists.
• 34:37
  S8: Okay, wait. You really?
• 34:39
  S2: At the time that's what you knew you were looking for?
• 34:41
  S9: Yes, absolutely.
• 34:42
  S8: Wow.
• 34:43
  S9: Okay. And I went to the University of Michigan. Go blue.
• 34:46
  S9: Still live here in the Ann Arbor area. I'm a
• 34:48
  S9: tried and true wolverine, but being raised by atheists. When
• 34:51
  S9: I came to college, I took on that mantle. And
• 34:55
  S9: in fact, my nickname in my fraternity was Satan, because
• 34:57
  S9: I persecuted Christians and wrote papers against Christians. Wow. But
• 35:00
  S9: I was looking for the foundation for my life. If
• 35:05
  S9: there's no God, if there's no transcendence, can anything mean
• 35:08
  S9: anything at all? And that was the quest that I
• 35:11
  S9: was on. So I was quite certain that the answer
• 35:13
  S9: was no. But I wanted to make sure. And so
• 35:16
  S9: I became an honors student in both data sciences section
• 35:19
  S9: of the psychology department. And my great love, which was
• 35:22
  S9: the philosophy department. So that's that's how I went to college,
• 35:26
  S9: searching for the meaning of the universe.
• 35:29
  S2: At what point did you realize that wait, my the
• 35:34
  S2: purposelessness of atheism. When did that all start to become
• 35:38
  S2: clear to you? And the answers found in Jesus Christ illuminated.
• 35:42
  S9: Well, you know, I don't think I was looking for
• 35:44
  S9: answers in religion. In fact, I was quite sure there
• 35:47
  S9: were none. And so when I got to the end
• 35:50
  S9: of my studies, my philosophic studies, I turned my honors
• 35:53
  S9: thesis in to the chair of our department. And it
• 35:57
  S9: was basically an atheistic expression that we call existentialism. You know,
• 36:01
  S9: think about Jean-Paul Sartre and others. And I remember turning
• 36:04
  S9: that paper in, and this is the short version. This
• 36:07
  S9: isn't the first encounter with the Holy Spirit. But I
• 36:10
  S9: turned that paper in and I walked out of the building,
• 36:13
  S9: and a cold blast of Michigan air swept the parking lot.
• 36:16
  S9: And I literally heard the voice of God. And I
• 36:19
  S9: wouldn't have used those words at the time, but I
• 36:21
  S9: heard God ask this question if you really believe everything
• 36:24
  S9: that you've written in that paper, why do anything at all?
• 36:27
  S9: Because I was a, you know, intJ type three, you know,
• 36:30
  S9: type A personality. I was a driver. I had multiple
• 36:33
  S9: jobs and multiple girlfriends. And I was an honor student
• 36:36
  S9: in multiple departments. And God basically brought me to my
• 36:40
  S9: knees by asking this question, why do anything at all
• 36:43
  S9: if it doesn't matter? I didn't have an answer for that,
• 36:45
  S9: but I knew that if there was a being that
• 36:47
  S9: was speaking to me in this wind, then I got
• 36:50
  S9: to figure out who he or she or it is.
• 36:53
  S9: And so I did something very unusual as an atheist.
• 36:55
  S9: I started to pray and I said, every day I said,
• 36:59
  S9: Dear Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, he, she it. Whoever you are,
• 37:03
  S9: show me the money. And I was looking for the
• 37:05
  S9: angel Moroni or some algorithm to fall out of the
• 37:07
  S9: sky to demonstrate to me for sure that there was
• 37:11
  S9: a God. And so I started reading the Bible and
• 37:14
  S9: reading the Upanishads and reading the Quran and talking to
• 37:17
  S9: Muslims and talking to pastors and talking to Christians. And
• 37:20
  S9: after several weeks of investigation, I came to the conclusion
• 37:23
  S9: that there really is no God, and religious people have
• 37:26
  S9: no foundation for their ideology. And so therefore, I was
• 37:29
  S9: going to kill myself. And so it was a rational
• 37:31
  S9: decision to commit suicide. It wasn't because I was depressed
• 37:34
  S9: or anything like that. It was, you know, the end
• 37:36
  S9: of the conclusion and existentialism. We call this the great angst.
• 37:40
  S9: When you come to the end of yourself and you
• 37:43
  S9: come to the end of the world and there is nothing,
• 37:46
  S9: it's just a great void of nothingness. But before I
• 37:49
  S9: did the act, I said, well, you know, maybe, uh,
• 37:52
  S9: maybe God can speak for himself. And so I went
• 37:55
  S9: back to prayer, and after hearing nothing, I remember it
• 37:58
  S9: all came to a head. December 24th, 1989, Christmas Eve.
• 38:02
  S9: I'm sitting in the movie theater watching The Little Mermaid
• 38:05
  S9: with my fiance at that point, and I had what
• 38:08
  S9: I would call an atheistic epiphany. There is no God.
• 38:12
  S9: There is no afterlife. There is no meaning. There is
• 38:14
  S9: no purpose. It's all cartoons and sex and drugs and
• 38:18
  S9: the accumulation of material wealth. And if that's all there is,
• 38:21
  S9: I'm killing myself tonight. So I got my girlfriend or
• 38:24
  S9: my fiance rather dropped off at her house. I got
• 38:27
  S9: my car going about 90 miles an hour down the freeway.
• 38:29
  S9: A power and a presence flooded my car, took hold
• 38:32
  S9: of the wheel, and in that moment of decision, steered
• 38:35
  S9: me to safety. See, I'm the original Jesus take the
• 38:38
  S9: wheel story. I should be getting royalties, but I haven't
• 38:41
  S9: seen any checks yet. Wow. That encounter wasn't enough to
• 38:45
  S9: convert me. I still didn't know who I had this encounter,
• 38:48
  S9: what it meant, but it was enough to get me
• 38:49
  S9: home that night and I fell asleep. Woke up on
• 38:52
  S9: Christmas morning. And this is where my story with Jesus begins.
• 38:56
  S9: Christmas morning I wake up and for the first time
• 38:58
  S9: I pray a prayer of desperation. I said, God, if
• 39:01
  S9: that was you last night, I need to know right
• 39:03
  S9: now because I'm still going to kill myself. And I
• 39:06
  S9: walked into the next room, and my two older brothers
• 39:08
  S9: were also home from the University of Michigan, Go Blue.
• 39:11
  S9: And we were all sitting around the living room, and
• 39:14
  S9: one of my brothers, none of them were Christians, but
• 39:16
  S9: he had brought the poem footprints in the sand, a
• 39:19
  S9: very large printed, framed poster of the poem footprints in
• 39:24
  S9: the sand. And if you're not familiar with that, it's
• 39:26
  S9: just a story about how God is active in our lives,
• 39:28
  S9: how he's working in our lives, particularly during times of
• 39:32
  S9: difficulty and challenge. And I'm reading this, and I actually
• 39:36
  S9: heard the voice of God say three things to me
• 39:38
  S9: that changed my forever. He said, number one, I do exist.
• 39:42
  S9: Number two, I'm the reason why you exist. And number three,
• 39:45
  S9: I'm the one who kept you from killing yourself last night.
• 39:47
  S9: Which meant that God knew who I was, who I was.
• 39:50
  S9: He was involved in my story and he cared enough
• 39:53
  S9: to actually intervene. And so, in tears, I ran into
• 39:56
  S9: the room and I still didn't know which God I
• 39:57
  S9: was praying to. But I said, Dear God, if you
• 39:59
  S9: can take my life and make anything out of it
• 40:01
  S9: from this day forward, I'm living for you. So that
• 40:04
  S9: was the beginning of my walk with the Lord. And, uh,
• 40:07
  S9: it's a, it's a testimony that wows a lot of people.
• 40:10
  S9: It's not the one that I wish that I had.
• 40:11
  S9: It's not the one I wished for my kids to have,
• 40:14
  S9: but it's the one that I got. Yeah.
• 40:17
  S2: Our York Moore, our guest right now, uh, he is
• 40:20
  S2: president and CEO of National evangelist for the coalition for
• 40:23
  S2: Christian Outreach, uh, formerly served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. He's
• 40:26
  S2: got a powerful TikTok ministry. You're a lot of what
• 40:31
  S2: I just read deals with young people. You have a
• 40:34
  S2: heart and a passion for young people. And after hearing
• 40:37
  S2: your story, it's pretty easy to understand why. Unless I'm
• 40:40
  S2: drawing too many conclusions too quickly. It was a lot
• 40:43
  S2: of your passion born out of what you went through.
• 40:46
  S9: Yeah, absolutely. I have a passion for this generation. In
• 40:50
  S9: the past several generations, I've been on the. I went
• 40:52
  S9: to college in 1987 and I never left. I've been
• 40:54
  S9: on the college campuses now for, you know, 30 something years.
• 40:58
  S9: And I love I love this generation. Gen Z is
• 41:01
  S9: on our college campuses and we're getting ready for Gen
• 41:04
  S9: Alpha and they're coming. But here's the interesting thing, you know,
• 41:08
  S9: I've been an evangelist now for 30 years and I've
• 41:11
  S9: never seen an evangelistic opportunity like we're seeing in America
• 41:14
  S9: right now all across the United States, we're seeing people
• 41:17
  S9: come to Jesus in ways that are extraordinary at levels
• 41:21
  S9: we've never seen before. In 2017, I co-founded the Every
• 41:24
  S9: Campus Coalition, which has 120 organizations. Every single collegiate ministry
• 41:29
  S9: in America is on the platform, and we're seeking God
• 41:33
  S9: for revival on our college campuses. And we believe that
• 41:36
  S9: we're beginning to see that. And we're seeing we're seeing
• 41:39
  S9: students baptized in the back of pickup trucks. We're seeing
• 41:42
  S9: athletes baptized in the in the water tanks, in their
• 41:46
  S9: locker rooms. coaches, Bible studies that would typically have 50
• 41:50
  S9: students have 500 students. Even in our ministry, the coalition
• 41:53
  S9: for Christian Outreach put our our missionaries on staff at
• 41:56
  S9: local churches, and we disciple students in the context of
• 41:59
  S9: the local church. We've seen a rash of students coming
• 42:03
  S9: into Bible studies, coming into churches, requesting to be baptized,
• 42:07
  S9: and they're showing up saying things like, I don't know
• 42:10
  S9: exactly why I'm here. I just got out of bed
• 42:12
  S9: and found myself here. Can you tell me about Jesus? Like,
• 42:16
  S9: you can't make this stuff up? What we're seeing is extraordinary.
• 42:20
  S9: But at the foundational level, there is a heart search
• 42:23
  S9: that's going on, and we see it in many different ways.
• 42:26
  S9: And what we're saying is we need to be active
• 42:29
  S9: and present and available for this move of God that
• 42:31
  S9: we're seeing.
• 42:32
  S2: Our York Moore, our guest right now coming up, let's
• 42:34
  S2: talk a little bit more about that search that many
• 42:37
  S2: young people are on and what he's seeing and how
• 42:41
  S2: we can be praying for this next generation. More coming
• 42:44
  S2: up here with our York. More here on Carl and Crew.