Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / How to Scale Inclusive Coding Education and Leadership Mindsets with Chinmay Lal

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How to Scale Inclusive Coding Education and Leadership Mindsets with Chinmay Lal · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

• 0:00
  I think the biggest mistake is sort of pushing children into
• 0:04
  languages too early. So for example, if you don't
• 0:08
  know a language, for example, let's say German, if you don't
• 0:11
  know German and I give you a big text of German and I say
• 0:14
  translate this perfectly, then you wouldn't be able to do it.
• 0:17
  And it's not, it's not fair to push these, to push this on
• 0:21
  children. So if students don't understand
• 0:25
  why or how coding works, then they just start memorising stuff
• 0:29
  and they just start memorising the syntax and it doesn't work
• 0:32
  that way. You know, they all, they'll form
• 0:34
  the problems, they'll have to rely on tools to learn.
• 0:37
  So we think that we need to build these these skills and
• 0:41
  these thinking 1st and then comes the language, then comes
• 0:44
  the coding. Before we dive back into today's
• 0:46
  conversation, I want to share something important.
• 0:48
  This episode includes a pay partnership with A Better Help,
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  Yourself Welcome to the Kingdoms Podcast, where we share the
• 2:07
  stories of extraordinary people and dissect hot, relevant topics
• 2:11
  that shape our world. From visionary leaders to
• 2:13
  trailblazing creatives, we uncover the mindset, strategy,
• 2:17
  and grit behind greatness. Whether it's business, culture
• 2:20
  or personal growth, we ask the real questions.
• 2:23
  This isn't just conversation, it's transformation.
• 2:26
  The Kingdom's podcast, Your Next Breakthrough, starts here.
• 2:30
  Music licencing reimagined. We are live.
• 2:36
  Ladies and gentlemen, you once again welcome to the Kingdom's
• 2:39
  podcast and diary of the CFO. And today I've got with me
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  fighting out of the world down under, fighting out of Brisbane,
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  Australia. Mick Walker, Chin May law.
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  How are you, brother? Yeah, good.
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  Thank you, bro. Thank you for having me.
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  Wow, you, you're welcome. You know, you actually doing
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  something that is very important to me and that is tech.
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  You know, for anybody who is actually doing something amazing
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  in the world of tech, like you're going to be my friend.
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  So see back how while I give you flowers.
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  So today's conversation matches not because we were talking
• 3:19
  about code, but because we are talking about access, inclusion
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  and leadership at the earliest stage of the future economy.
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  My guest today is a Co founder who decided that technology
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  education should not be intimidating, elitist or
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  dependent on perfect infrastructure.
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  They're building offline first low stress inclusive pathways
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  into build programming for the next generation while running a
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  second venture helping e-commerce brands skill
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  sustainably and profitably. This is leadership that blends
• 3:54
  mindsets, systems and execution. And that is exactly what we
• 3:58
  stand for on the Kingdom's podcast.
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  Please make welcome the Co founder of that is called lapse
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  chimney law. You're welcome, brother.
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  So let's talk about the origin story.
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  You know, every every meaningful company begins with a moment of
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  friction. So what problem did you guys
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  personally experience that made you realise that traditional
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  coding education was failing young learners, especially in
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  low connectivity environments? So the main problem that we face
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  was that when we were learning coding ourselves, we go from the
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  traditional platform was Scratch, which is block based
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  coding. And then we suddenly jump into
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  Python. And what the problem we faced
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  was that Scratch is so simple, like literally anyone could do
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  it, kids do it, everyone, that's where everyone starts.
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  But jumping into traditional coding like Python or Java, it
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  was very difficult for us. Like so many, so much syntax, so
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  much nonsense. And another thing we realised
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  was that if this was hard for us, then imagine how hard it
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  would be for for people in marginalised societies such as
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  like low income countries. We we thought that there needs
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  to be a simpler way, there needs to be a more accessible way for
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  people to access this, and there needs to be an easier way for
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  people to move from learning code into the real world.
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  OK, well, interesting. So like you know, men platforms
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  actually talk about learning to code, but a few of them talk
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  about how children emotionally experience learning to code.
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  So what did you observe about like the anxiety, the
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  confidence, the overwhelm that shaped your first offline 1st
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  and low stress approach? So what, what stood out to us
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  was the like anxiety, in fact, so students weren't just like
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  confused, but I feel like many of them are intimidated.
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  And even adults, like many people at my age as a teenager,
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  people are intimidated by coding.
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  It's like coding is positioned as something's hot, something
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  that's hard. And something like it's built
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  around being capable. If someone can code and they're
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  very capable and that's why we built our tools.
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  So it's an offline 1st and low pressure progression into
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  coding. We wanted students to feel safe,
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  safe and comfortable experimenting and making
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  mistakes rather than going into something something that seemed
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  like a monster, you know, something that seems super hard.
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  Wow, so from the blocks to the real code, you know, that is you
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  guys actually, I would I say I appreciate what you're doing
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  because it's it makes a lot of sense to start offline first
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  before growing into the real coding experience.
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  So you deliberately breach that block based learning with real
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  programming concepts. So why is this transition we
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  have? Most educational systems fail
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  and like what did you design differently to make a stick for
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  young learners? So this transition fails mostly
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  because the block coding hides the the difficulty and the
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  complexity behind real coding. But when students move into real
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  programming, it gets like exposed to them all at once.
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  So there's no, there's no real structured bridge between the
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  two. So we designed that as an
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  industry first traditional like, sorry, transitional layer.
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  So we teach real programming, logic, data science and
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  sequencing and computational thinking through our course, but
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  without throwing it students with with difficulty and all the
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  syntax. So we aim to build the skills
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  and the mental models required for coding before they move on
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  to to traditional coding languages.
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  So when they move on to stuff like Python or Java, it feels
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  more familiar rather than something that's just being
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  thrown at them. Well, you know, Speaking of
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  inclusion, another thing I very much appreciate about your
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  business model is, you know, you are actually transforming the
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  lives of people, young people, giving them an opportunity to
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  make a living for the rest of their lives.
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  And you know, it speaks to that Chinese proverb that says give
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  amount of fish you fed him for a day, but teach a man to fish you
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  fed him for a lifetime. You guys are basically feeding
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  people for a lifetime and people in what I say remote locations
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  that would typically wouldn't have had access to that
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  information that would help them to make a living for, you know,
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  their lifetimes, right? So but when people think about
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  inclusion, people think about inclusion from a charity
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  standpoint, right? Not as a peace, as a seizure.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. From from experience working
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  with schools, NGOs, communities globally.
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  Likewise inclusion actually a strategic and commercial
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  advantage. So we, we definitely agree.
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  So we agree that inclusion isn't like a charity, you know, it's,
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  it's an expansion of our market. So the majority of students like
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  around the world don't have perfect connectivity.
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  So for platforms like Scratch which are web-based, you know,
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  these students weren't able so be able to access it all the
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  time, won't be able to access it consistently.
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  So if your product only works in these perfect and ideal
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  conditions that are like maybe present in Australia, the USA
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  and the UK, in these ideal conditions, I feel like you're
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  limiting your impact and your business.
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  So I think designing for the accessibility, designing for
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  accessibility like right from the start creates A resilience
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  not only in your business model, but in your product.
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  So builds it also builds trust in communities that are
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  overlooked. So for example, we have a
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  partners in Sri Lanka with the foundation of goodness.
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  These students, these students don't have access to to their
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  own personal computers. They only have access to a
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  computer lab and basically we provide our products for
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  absolutely for free to them. So they're able to come into
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  class, come into school and they're able to programme and
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  learn and build the skills. Wow, so you know most of this
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  text actually always assume an ideal environment, perfect
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  Internet, perfect devices, perfect classrooms.
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  But like what minds achieved did you guys have to make to build
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  products that work in conditions that are not ideal?
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  So we, we had to make the assumption that like nothing was
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  guaranteed. No Internet wasn't guaranteed.
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  Maybe the devices. We can't, we can't like assume
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  that everyone will have a MacBook Pro.
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  You know, we can't, we also can't assume that all the
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  teachers are confident. And you know, we can't assume
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  that all the teachers have skills that they're good enough
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  to navigate through tech, they know coding.
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  So that mindset forced us to build the product in a simple
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  way. So we didn't build it around the
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  perfect conditions that we experienced, but we we built it
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  around simplicity. So if something required like
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  constant connection, then we redesigned it.
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  If something required skilled or educated supervision, then we
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  then we simplified it. So these constraints and these
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  simplifications that we had to make like made our products
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  stronger. Well, I, I love simplicity.
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  You know, simplicity actually just makes things, or would I
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  say accelerated. But a lot of times, you know,
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  especially in the tech world, people think the more complex
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  the solution is, the more valuable it is.
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  But I think the other way round, it's it's, it's the other way
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  round for me. And you know, it's impressive to
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  see you guys doing this at a very, very young age, right?
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  So leadership at a young age, you're leading teams, you're
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  having partnerships, you know, you're having real customers
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  earlier than most founders would ever do.
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  So what has leadership taught you about responsibility,
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  decision making and, you know, being under pressure sooner than
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  you actually expected? Yeah.
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  So I think when you're young, people test whether you like
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  truly understand what you're doing.
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  They test whether you know your numbers, your product and your
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  mission. And I feel like some people
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  automatically have the idea that because we're young, we don't
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  know what we're doing. And maybe for the most part,
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  maybe that is true, but we make up for the lack of experience
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  with without drive, you know, without drive and our ambition
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  to keep going. So the responsibility also like
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  it hits differently when people, so we go from depending on our
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  parents to suddenly people depending on us, our customers,
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  employees. Like you quickly learn that
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  being consistent, being reliable, and being clear builds
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  your credibility. Well, I love that, you know,
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  because for me, myself growing up in Nigeria, like I sort of
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  faced something similar, right? I come from a finance background
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  and I used to be a lecturer for finance students.
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  And these are professional students.
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  But being young, a lot of people thought this one doesn't know
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  what he's doing. And it always made me to work
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  twice as hard, right? Of course, you need to always
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  prove yourself. How do you feel, you know,
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  having to always prove yourself, having always to, to work twice
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  as hard in order to give people that assurance that I know what
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  I'm doing. Like how?
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  How does it feel for you? I think it motivates me to work
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  harder. You know, it motivates me to
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  show that you don't always have to have that years of experience
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  behind you. I think it motivates me to work
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  even harder to show, to prove myself than to prove to other
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  people that we are capable. You know, like we have the
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  vision, we have the drive, we have the motivation, and we we
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  want to make real change. It helps me work harder, yeah.
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  Oh wow. So let's talk about the systems
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  over the motivation. So sustainable impact requires
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  systems, you know, not just inspiration, but what systems
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  did you guys put in place to avoid burnout while scaling
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  outreach, partnerships, and delivery?
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  Yeah. So right from the start, early
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  on, we tried to build a structured system.
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  We tried to build structured systems.
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  So that would be without outreach, without CRM, without
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  onboarding workflows. And we documented all these
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  processes and we had, we had steps, we knew exactly what to
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  do and when to do it. So that reduced like emotional
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  decision making, which is something we definitely face at
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  the start. And like when a client
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  immediately fell out or they said, no, we don't want this,
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  you know, we, we take right to the heart, feel like someone
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  stabbed our chest. And instead of like feeling
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  productive, we tried to measure our activities.
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  So we, we put everything into numbers, the amount of calls
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  made, the follow-ups that we send, you know, and these are
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  all in systems. We set reminders.
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  Everything was in place to help us.
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  And we use all the resources that we have available to us.
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  You know, so we we learned that systems protect our energy and
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  systems protect making emotional decisions.
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  You are actually in an industry that is the educational
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  industry. So how do you think about
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  pricing ethically while building a company that is designed to
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  last? So we think education being the
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  education area, it's very interesting because it requires
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  a balance. So if the pricing is set too
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  high, then access suffers. Not everyone's going to be able
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  to access it, you know, But if it's too low, then our
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  sustainability suffers, we're going to struggle, We won't be
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  able to pay our employees. It's, it's, you have to have a
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  right balance there. So we approach pricing with a
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  tiered and flexible approach. So individuals, NGOs,
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  institutions there, those are all just examples of our
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  clients. So we design models that sort of
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  like allow access without weakening the business.
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  So we definitely agree that longevity is important and it's
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  part of our ethical impact. So we make we strike a balance
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  and we flexible. You know that I think that's
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  really important, especially in the education sector.
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  Oh wow, so alongside being an ad tech, you've actually built and
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  advised profit driven and e-commerce ventures.
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  So what lessons from performance LED commerce sharpened how you
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  run this impact driven educational business?
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  So I think my e-commerce ventures, I think they told me
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  that metrics are important in e-commerce conversion rates.
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  Follow the numbers. Follow the numbers in your.
• 17:10
  Product. Those are all yeah, they follow
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  the numbers exactly, exactly like those sharpen your
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  thinking, you know, in in education the accessibility and
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  emotion matters, but numbers still matter.
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  And I think that background helped helped us both approach
• 17:26
  partnerships and pricing with with a good structures rather
• 17:30
  than rather. OK, interesting.
• 17:33
  You know, it's interesting how founders always talk about the
• 17:37
  vision. Or do you rarely ever talk about
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  the doubts that creep in? So what moments actually
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  seriously tested your belief in the mission?
• 17:46
  And how did you recalibrate without losing momentum?
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  So throughout throughout time with that is like there were
• 17:56
  moments where it didn't work, you know, especially at the
• 17:59
  start like our outreach didn't convert, people would like miss
• 18:05
  meetings and like the traction felt really slow.
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  So this this sort of like recalibration that we had to do
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  under this pressure, I guess that that made us return to the
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  fundamentals. So our product quality directing
• 18:23
  our conversations and let make me a message really tight, you
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  know doubt this doubt that customers have goes away when
• 18:32
  our execution improves. I love that.
• 18:34
  And you know, in this podcast, this podcast is about the
• 18:38
  mindset, the skill sets and the tool sets, right?
• 18:41
  So let's talk about the skill sets and what skill sets
• 18:45
  actually matter the most. So if you strip away the hype,
• 18:49
  So what? What 3 skills have made the
• 18:52
  biggest difference in your execution so far?
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  Yeah. So I think execution compounds
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  over time, you know, and from my background in e-commerce, it was
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  very, I was just behind the laptop, you know, I was always
• 19:06
  behind the laptop just designing something, optimising stuff.
• 19:10
  It's not, I wasn't on meetings communicating, you know, but
• 19:14
  when I'm, when I joined, that is it's like, well, I think the
• 19:17
  number one skill that I had to learn was clear communication,
• 19:20
  being able to correctly articulate my thoughts and being
• 19:24
  able to articulate what our business is, what our business
• 19:28
  is doing for the client. And so definitely the number one
• 19:32
  skill that I learnt was like clear communication and being
• 19:36
  able to articulate myself. And I think what I put in #2 is
• 19:42
  financial discipline. So money comes in and we get
• 19:46
  income, But being able to put that in the right place in order
• 19:50
  for us to grow, I think that's really important.
• 19:53
  So I think when money comes in, especially as a young person,
• 19:56
  it's, it's really, really tempting to go out and buy
• 19:59
  something, you know, like a new flashy car, like whatever the
• 20:02
  new iPhone. But I think reinvesting the
• 20:05
  money and I think putting it where it matters in order for us
• 20:08
  to grow, I think that's important because I think the
• 20:11
  inputs of what we put in is. Is like equal to our like
• 20:17
  controls what we get out, you know, like the effort we put in.
• 20:21
  If we put more effort in, if we put more money in, then that
• 20:24
  grows exponentially. And I think the third one, the
• 20:29
  third most important seal I'd say is patience and being
• 20:33
  strategic with our patience. So we need to give clients
• 20:36
  enough time, enough time to think, enough time to talk to
• 20:40
  their, to their colleagues, enough time to make these
• 20:42
  decisions. But we can't let them wait too
• 20:45
  long. You know, we need to be on time
• 20:47
  with our follow-ups, but we also need to respect that space.
• 20:50
  You know, as I said with, with pricing earlier, I think there's
• 20:54
  a good balance that needs to be there.
• 20:56
  And I said at the start, like execution compounds over time.
• 21:00
  So these things, they didn't come to me the first day I
• 21:03
  joined. I think it grows and we learn as
• 21:07
  we go. I think that's super important.
• 21:10
  Amazing, amazing Actually, you are spot on.
• 21:14
  Now let's talk about this tool sets, right?
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  That is the tool sets that skill access.
• 21:21
  So what tools, what frameworks or operating habits have you
• 21:27
  quietly, you know, utilised that have become like an unfair
• 21:32
  advantage for your team, for your business, you know, as our
• 21:38
  Co founders. Yeah, Yeah.
• 21:40
  So I think, you know, we live, we live, we're in 2026, you
• 21:44
  know, anything we want is in our hands, you know, on our phone,
• 21:47
  on our laptop, it's right there. You know, it's most, most
• 21:51
  resources are free. And one big thing that I
• 21:53
  realised is that like our brain is for thinking and not
• 21:57
  remembering everything. You know, we, you should use our
• 22:00
  brain to Max capacity to think and articulate ourselves rather
• 22:04
  than try to remember and try to do everything ourselves, you
• 22:07
  know, especially when we have such great tools like on our in
• 22:11
  our hands. So I think a couple big tools
• 22:14
  that I'd say help that us grow is Notion.
• 22:17
  I think Notion helped us structure of planning and it was
• 22:22
  at a good price point. You know, at the start, we
• 22:24
  obviously we were, we were burning money, we were investing
• 22:27
  our own money. And I think Notion was a good
• 22:31
  affordable place where we could put everything, you know, our
• 22:34
  customer resource management, everything was on Notion.
• 22:38
  And honestly, it still is. And I think maybe #2 I'd say
• 22:45
  automation. So we live in the advent of AI.
• 22:49
  There's so many AI companies out there.
• 22:51
  You know, anything you want, if you search up, there'll be an AI
• 22:54
  company that that works for it. You know, So I think automating,
• 22:59
  especially, for example, our own boarding workflows.
• 23:01
  So we will have our initial meeting with a client and then
• 23:05
  immediately after we just set the cascade off.
• 23:08
  And then emails will get sent. Everything will get sent
• 23:11
  automatically. And I think it's important that
• 23:15
  we document everything and that everything is structured and
• 23:18
  planned, rather than me trying to remember to send emails.
• 23:22
  Maybe I'll have a couple clients.
• 23:23
  You know, I think when these systems live like outside your
• 23:26
  head, you scale faster. I totally agree with you, of
• 23:30
  course. For me, I believe Visa's
• 23:32
  progression in this age and time is highly, highly dependent on
• 23:38
  automation. It just lets things, would I
• 23:41
  say, be in a flow state because so for me, myself, like I've
• 23:44
  used a lot of automations and you know, having to operate a
• 23:49
  business like you are operating hands free, nothing feels better
• 23:54
  than that actually. Of course, for Mano Systems,
• 23:58
  we're human beings. We will forget certain things,
• 24:00
  right? But then, you know, when they're
• 24:02
  automated, it actually improves your reliability and
• 24:06
  consistency. And consistency in business is
• 24:10
  what actually leads to reliability.
• 24:12
  And reliability in turn leads to building trust from your, your,
• 24:16
  your stakeholders. So let's talk about the future
• 24:20
  classroom. So looking ahead into the next
• 24:23
  10 or five years, 5 to 10 years. So what must change and how we
• 24:29
  teach technology if we want the future leaders who are builders,
• 24:34
  not just consumers? Yeah.
• 24:37
  So I'd say, you know, especially as we discussed before the
• 24:41
  advent of AI, many people think that like coding your
• 24:44
  programming is dead. You know, because of like
• 24:47
  there's so many this like for example, code AI, it's so
• 24:51
  useful, you know, like you just tell it whatever you want and
• 24:54
  it'll adjust. It will make write it almost
• 24:56
  perfectly. Like if you write your own code
• 24:58
  and then there's a mistake that you can't find, you put it into
• 25:01
  AI, it'll find it for you immediately.
• 25:03
  But we think that like we need to teach this thinking skill
• 25:08
  before programming languages. So obviously programming is
• 25:12
  still required for AI and teaching these skills are super
• 25:16
  important as we believe that students should like understand
• 25:21
  the logics, systems and the problems behind coding.
• 25:25
  So we think that the future belongs to builders who like who
• 25:30
  more understand structures and more understand what goes into
• 25:35
  programming rather than those who just consume tools such as
• 25:39
  just code vibe coding with AI. OK, So what is your advice to
• 25:44
  parents and educators that are listening to us right now?
• 25:48
  What is the single biggest mistake to make when introducing
• 25:51
  children to learning technology? So I think the biggest mistake
• 25:57
  is sort of pushing children into languages too early.
• 26:03
  So for example, if you don't know a language, for example,
• 26:06
  let's say German, if you don't know German and I give you a big
• 26:09
  text of German, I say translate this perfectly, then you
• 26:13
  wouldn't be able to do it, you know, and it's not, it's not
• 26:15
  fair to push these, to push this on children.
• 26:20
  So we think of it the same way with so if students don't
• 26:24
  understand why or how coding works, then they just start
• 26:29
  memorising stuff and they just start memorising the syntax and
• 26:32
  it doesn't work that way. You know, they all, they'll form
• 26:35
  the problems, they'll have to rely on tools to learn.
• 26:38
  So we think that we need to build these these skills and
• 26:42
  these thinking 1st and then comes the language, then comes
• 26:46
  the coding. OK.
• 26:47
  So when it's all said and done, you know, when you zoom out
• 26:52
  beyond the revenue and the growth, what legacy do you want
• 26:56
  that is called labs to represent in the lives of the students
• 27:00
  that you serve? I want want that as to represent
• 27:04
  confidence, you know, not just confidence in let's say code
• 27:09
  writing, but confidence in thinking clearly, solving
• 27:13
  problems or like approaching complexity without fear.
• 27:18
  So I think too many students grow up believing that
• 27:22
  technology or coding is something only gifted people
• 27:25
  understand or like it's something that's reserved for
• 27:28
  those with like perfect schools, fast Internet or like the best
• 27:32
  devices, you know. But we want to dismantle that
• 27:35
  belief. So we think like that is isn't
• 27:39
  about like producing programmers overnight.
• 27:42
  It's not about making, it's not about creating the next, the
• 27:46
  next like big thing, you know? It's about helping students
• 27:50
  realise that like complex systems can be broken down and
• 27:55
  really understood step by step. For example, when a student in a
• 27:59
  rural classroom or a community centre or a low resource
• 28:03
  environment completes one of the modules and actually starts to
• 28:07
  understand why an algorithm, let's say they actually start to
• 28:12
  understand why an algorithm works.
• 28:14
  Like something shifts inside, they stop seeing like technology
• 28:17
  as intimidating and they start seeing it as accessible.
• 28:22
  So if we do this the right way, the legacy won't just be
• 28:25
  students who can code. It'll be students who can think
• 28:28
  and say, like, I can figure this out and students that have a
• 28:32
  mindset that extends far beyond technology into
• 28:36
  entrepreneurship, leadership, science, and just life in
• 28:40
  general. Like that's the type of
• 28:41
  confidence I want that is to stand for.
• 28:44
  Amazing, amazing. Wow.
• 28:46
  It's actually been really great speaking with you today.
• 28:50
  And there's something that I always say, any type of person
• 28:52
  shares the time with you, they share the life with you.
• 28:55
  Of course, the SI unit for measuring life is time.
• 28:59
  Well, before you go, I'm going to put you through the Ring of
• 29:02
  Fire. That is five quick fire round
• 29:04
  questions. So just tell me the very first
• 29:07
  thing that comes to your mind. Just simple answers only.
• 29:10
  Are you ready to rumble? Yep.
• 29:14
  What is 1 belief Belief about education that you have
• 29:18
  completely unlearned? So I think I unlearned that,
• 29:25
  that that harder automatically means you're like, that you're
• 29:29
  better learning, you know, doing something hard doesn't mean that
• 29:33
  you're learning. You're learning itself.
• 29:35
  You know, like I think that's one thing that I've unlearned.
• 29:38
  OK, interesting. So our number 2 is what is the
• 29:42
  hardest leadership lesson? With pricing earlier, I think
• 29:46
  there's a good balance that needs to be there.
• 29:48
  And I said at the start, like execution compounds over time.
• 29:52
  So these things, they didn't come to me the first day I
• 29:55
  joined. I think it grows and we learn as
• 29:59
  we go. You know, I think that's super
• 30:01
  important. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:02
  So I think, you know, we live, we live, we're in 2026, you
• 30:06
  know, anything we want is in our hands, you know, on our phone,
• 30:10
  on our laptop, it's right there. You know, it's most, most
• 30:13
  resources are free. And one big thing that I
• 30:16
  realised is that like our brain is for thinking and not
• 30:20
  remembering everything. You know, we, you should use our
• 30:22
  brain, it's Max capacity to think and articulate ourselves
• 30:27
  rather than try to remember and try to do everything ourselves,
• 30:30
  you know, especially when we have such great tools like on
• 30:33
  our in our hands. So I think a couple big tools
• 30:37
  that I'd say help that us grow is Notion.
• 30:40
  I think Notion helped us structure planning and it was at
• 30:44
  a good price point. You know, at the start, we
• 30:46
  obviously we were, we were burning money, we were investing
• 30:50
  our own money. And I think Notion was a good
• 30:53
  affordable place where we could put everything, you know, our
• 30:57
  customer resource management, everything was on Notion.
• 31:01
  And honestly, it still is. And I think maybe #2 I'd say
• 31:08
  automation. So we live in the advent of AI.
• 31:12
  There's so many AI companies out there.
• 31:14
  You know, anything you want, if you search up, there'll be an AI
• 31:16
  company that works for it, you know, So I think automating
• 31:20
  especially for example, our own boarding workflows.
• 31:22
  So we will have our initial meeting with the client and then
• 31:26
  immediately after we just set the cascade off and then emails
• 31:31
  will get sent. Everything will get sent
• 31:32
  automatically. And I think it's important that
• 31:36
  we document everything and that everything is structured and
• 31:39
  planned rather than me trying to remember to send emails.
• 31:43
  Maybe I'll have a couple clients.
• 31:44
  You know, I think when these systems live like, outside your
• 31:48
  head, you scale faster. Yeah.
• 31:51
  So I'd say, you know, especially as we discussed before the
• 31:55
  advent of AI, many people think that like coding your
• 31:59
  programming is dead, you know, because of like there's so many,
• 32:03
  like for example, code AI, it's so useful, you know, like you
• 32:07
  just tell it whatever you want and it'll adjust.
• 32:09
  It'll make write it almost perfectly.
• 32:11
  Like if you write your own code and then there's a mistake that
• 32:14
  you can't find, you put it in the AI, it'll find it for you
• 32:17
  immediately. But we think that like we need
• 32:21
  to teach this thinking skill before programming languages.
• 32:25
  So obviously programming is still required for AI and
• 32:29
  teaching these skills are super important as we believe that
• 32:33
  students should like understand the logics, systems and the
• 32:39
  problems behind coding. So we think that the future
• 32:42
  belongs to builders who like who more understand structures and
• 32:47
  more understand what goes into programming rather than those
• 32:51
  who just consume tools such as just code vibe coding with AI.
• 32:56
  So I think the biggest mistake is sort of pushing children into
• 33:01
  languages too early. So for example, if you don't
• 33:07
  know a language, for example, let's say German, if you don't
• 33:10
  know German and I give you a big text of German and I say
• 33:13
  translate this perfectly, then you wouldn't be able to do it,
• 33:16
  you know, and it's not, it's not fair to push these, to push this
• 33:20
  on children. So we think of it the same way
• 33:24
  with coding. So if students don't understand
• 33:27
  why or how coding works, then they just start memorising stuff
• 33:32
  and they just start memorising the syntax and it doesn't work
• 33:36
  that way. You know, they all they'll form
• 33:38
  the problems, they'll have to rely on tools to learn.
• 33:41
  So we think that we need to build these these skills and
• 33:45
  these thinking 1st and then comes the language, then comes
• 33:48
  the coding. I want some Dallas to represent
• 33:52
  confidence, you know, not just confidence in, let's say code
• 33:58
  writing, but confidence in thinking clearly, solving
• 34:01
  problems or like approaching complexity without fear.
• 34:06
  So I think too many students grow up believing that
• 34:10
  technology or coding is something only gifted people
• 34:13
  understand or like it's something that's reserved for
• 34:17
  those with like perfect schools, fast Internet or like the best
• 34:21
  devices, you know, and but we want to dismantle that belief.
• 34:25
  So we think like that is isn't about like producing programmers
• 34:30
  overnight. It's not about making, it's not
• 34:33
  about creating the next, the next like big thing, you know.
• 34:37
  It's about helping students realise that like complex
• 34:42
  systems can be broken down and really understood step by step.
• 34:47
  For example, when a student in a rural classroom or a community
• 34:50
  centre or a low resource environment completes one of the
• 34:54
  modules and actually starts to understand why, like an
• 34:59
  algorithm, let's say, they actually start to understand why
• 35:01
  an algorithm works. Like something shifts inside.
• 35:04
  They stop seeing like technology as intimidating and they start
• 35:08
  seeing it as accessible. So if we do this the right way,
• 35:12
  the legacy won't just be students who can code, It'll be
• 35:16
  students who can think and say, like, I can figure this out and
• 35:20
  students that have a mindset that extends far beyond
• 35:24
  technology into entrepreneurship, leadership,
• 35:27
  science, and just life in general.
• 35:29
  Like that's the type of confidence I want that is to
• 35:32
  stand for well. OK, let's go through the quick
• 35:36
  fire round questions. Number one, believe about
• 35:39
  education that you have completely unlearned.
• 35:42
  I'd say for like that working, doing something difficult or
• 35:49
  struggling means learning. So I think learning isn't about
• 35:52
  pressure, but it's more about like how clear you understand
• 35:57
  things and your momentum. OK, for me, I believe learning
• 36:00
  should actually be fun. So #2 what is the hardest
• 36:03
  leadership lesson that you did not expect to learn these early?
• 36:08
  I'd say that not everyone moves at the same speed of you.
• 36:12
  Not everyone moves at the same pace, and that's perfectly OK.
• 36:15
  Absolutely, absolutely. So what is 1 Habit that protects
• 36:19
  your focus as our founder? Say, starting every day with one
• 36:24
  set outcome and one thing that must be achieved, and everything
• 36:28
  else is secondary to that. Fantastic #4 What is 1 tool that
• 36:33
  you would refuse to give up? I'd say structured planning and
• 36:37
  structured systems. So without them, we lose our
• 36:40
  momentum. Interesting, you know, for me
• 36:43
  the most basic and my favourite tool is a calendar tool.
• 36:47
  That is, that is the chief of structure.
• 36:50
  Like yeah, calendar tool. Come on.
• 36:52
  He just, he just helps is the foundation.
• 36:55
  So #5 #5 absolutely #5 is what is 1 sentence you want every
• 37:02
  young learner to believe about themselves.
• 37:05
  I'd say you're you are more. You're capable of understanding
• 37:10
  more than you think. Amazing.
• 37:12
  So one more time, love and respect to you for your time
• 37:16
  today. Thank you very much.
• 37:18
  This conversation has not been about coding.
• 37:22
  It has been about who gets access to the future and who
• 37:25
  gets left behind. So and of course, who steps up
• 37:29
  early enough to change the system and that is leadership in
• 37:33
  motion. So to the audience, I would say
• 37:37
  again, always believe in yourselves, conceive, believe,
• 37:41
  strive to thrive and achieve. Always go for something in your
• 37:45
  lives. And you know, definitely till I
• 37:47
  come your way next time, you know, keep winning.
• 37:50
  And guys, come on, we're doing a great job.
• 37:54
  You can join the YouTube channel, join as a member on the
• 37:57
  YouTube channel and of course, get early access to all of you
• 38:02
  know, the publications and of course, you're able to watch
• 38:04
  without odds. So goodbye.
• 38:06
  Wow, finally.