Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Nate Tice revisits the 2011 NFL Draft: How Cam Newton, J.J. Watt, and Richard Sherman changed the NFL forever | 04.21

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Nate Tice revisits the 2011 NFL Draft: How Cam Newton, J.J. Watt, and Richard Sherman changed the NFL forever | 04.21 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Wave.
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  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time.
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  Speaker 3: A wave original. My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: listening wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for watching us
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: to believe you are a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday.
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  Speaker 3: We are looking back on the 2011 NFL Draft, 15
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: years out from it. Joining us from Yahoo Sports, we
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  Speaker 3: got my man Nate Tice.
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  Speaker 2: What's going on, sir?
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  Speaker 1: This might be a little too late for our usual discussions.
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  Speaker 1: We usually like to end about 2000 when, when the
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  Speaker 1: NFL still had sub 32 teams is our usual discussions. 31, 30, 29, 28. That's,
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  Speaker 1: that's our comfort zone. No, happy to be here. Great
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  Speaker 1: to see you, dude.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, nah, man.
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  Speaker 3: This time we're going to talk about some dudes who
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  Speaker 3: are actually still in the league. Um, but we are
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  Speaker 3: talking about the 2011 draft and, There's an argument to
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: be made. The 2011 draft is maybe the best one ever.
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  Speaker 3: We'll talk about that a little bit later.
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  Speaker 2: In the show. But I want to start with, and
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: If you remember it this way, because as I recall,
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  Speaker 3: I think you were still in college when this draft
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  Speaker 3: went down. But for me, this is as many great
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  Speaker 3: players as there are in this draft.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that they.
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  Speaker 3: May end with somewhere around seven or eight guys. who
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  Speaker 3: end up in the Hall of Fame. And that is
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  Speaker 3: not including the guy that I think this draft is
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  Speaker 3: really about, which is Cam Newton.
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  Speaker 2: This was the Cam Newton draft.
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  Speaker 3: And I remember when the draft came around, and I
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  Speaker 3: think it will be difficult to explain to somebody younger
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  Speaker 3: what a revolutionary prospect Cam Newton was, but also the
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  Speaker 3: fact that the year before Sam Bradford.
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  Speaker 2: Had been the number one overall pick.
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  Speaker 3: And that was the first time that the league really
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  Speaker 3: leaned in on a spread quarterback.
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  Speaker 2: Being the number one overall pick.
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  Speaker 3: Like that was, that's how fresh the idea was about
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  Speaker 3: a quarterback who did not play in a professional style offense.
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  Speaker 3: The idea of taking somebody that high, where even with
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  Speaker 3: Sam Bradford, we were like, hey, guys, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: Sam Bradford, quite a skeptic, was a good NFL quarterback.
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  Speaker 3: But it was kind of a, hey, we don't know
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  Speaker 3: about that. We get to Cam Newton, one season superstar,
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  Speaker 3: running a high school offense. But I remember myself when
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: that draft came around, I was like, but I mean.
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  Speaker 3: Who else are you going to take if you don't
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  Speaker 3: take Cam Newton? Like, who are the guys that you're
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: going to talk about? And I say that in one
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  Speaker 3: part to say that's somewhat of a laughable statement because
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  Speaker 3: I said I think there'll be seven or eight guys
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  Speaker 3: for this draft that'll go in the Hall of Fame.
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  Speaker 2: And on the other hand, if.
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  Speaker 3: You do this draft again, you're taking Cam Newton number one, period.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, an MVP quarterback. That's the goal of the draft.
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  Speaker 1: And you nailed it.
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  Speaker 3: Full-on carry to franchise.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Full-on carry to franchise for seven or eight years.
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  Speaker 1: That's the other thing is even that MVP year, which
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: now gets washed away in history because everyone remembers the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Broncos game more than anything. That team was garbage. I mean,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the defense was good, but Ted Ginn was probably his
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  Speaker 1: best receiver, if I remember correctly. He had some Olsen
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  Speaker 1: and everything. The O-line was solid, but it wasn't like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of world beaters on that offense.
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  Speaker 1: Cam Newton though, that, that year at Auburn was, we
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: were the same class in high school. Uh, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: he goes to Florida when Florida was it, you know,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: sit behind Tebow. He was next in line, him and, uh,
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  Speaker 1: another guy in my class, John Brantley, John Brantley. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Who threw one of the prettiest spirals I've ever seen
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  Speaker 1: in my life. Chris leak and John Brantley to Florida QBs. Uh,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: but then it was so rare. He goes Juco. They win. Again,
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  Speaker 1: transfers to Auburn. And right away, they're like, yeah, this
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  Speaker 1: is the dude. And even at that time, with Malzahn
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: getting there, or Malzahn being the coordinator and everything, calling plays,
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  Speaker 1: that was kind of rare to be like, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the Juco guy is it. If that makes sense. Right.
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  Speaker 1: He was on his third school. Yeah. Usually that's like, ah,
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  Speaker 1: the last chance. He's going to be competing for this
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  Speaker 1: other spot. You know, we have another guy that we
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  Speaker 1: like that's been sitting here. And it was so, I remember,
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  Speaker 1: I want to say it was a Sports Illustrated article
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  Speaker 1: I read in that spring. And they're like, yep, Cam
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  Speaker 1: Newton's the guy. It should be exciting what he does
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  Speaker 1: in this offense. But it was like, wow, that was quick.
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  Speaker 1: Juco guy transferred that quick and they're just giving it
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  Speaker 1: to him. Okay. And then you saw why. You saw
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  Speaker 1: he was the entire offense catching touchdowns, the comeback against Alabama.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, just anything you can think of. Like just
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  Speaker 1: even his teammates on defense are getting drafted because of him.
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  Speaker 1: Nick Fairley goes in the top 15 because Cam Newton's
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  Speaker 1: leading them to the championship game. it is a force
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  Speaker 1: of nature. And like you said, even though there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of guys and we're going to get into a
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  Speaker 1: lot of defensive guys too, this is the goal of
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  Speaker 1: the draft and he was worth it to win that MVP.
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  Speaker 1: I know the tail end of his career didn't end up,
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  Speaker 1: but that's because the Panthers were garbage before.
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  Speaker 4: And after him.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's it. Cam Newton was a force of nature.
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  Speaker 2: So there is an eye test for quarterbacks, certainly, right?
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  Speaker 3: Like you and I, We're both still holding on to
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: that last little bit of Anthony Richardson stock, right?
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  Speaker 2: But the reason is.
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  Speaker 1: I got one flower of Anthony Richardson on Anthony Richardson Island.
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  Speaker 2: But it's just like, look at the dude, right? Like,
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  Speaker 2: you don't have to explain it too much.
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  Speaker 3: But I bring that up to say, there aren't that
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  Speaker 3: many quarterbacks that are an off-the-bus We Got Hilt.
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  Speaker 2: Correct.
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  Speaker 4: Right?
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  Speaker 3: Like just simply looking at the dude get off the
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  Speaker 3: bus and you say that he's the quarterback.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
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  Speaker 3: John Elway, who I think is the number one eye
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  Speaker 3: test quarterback that there has ever been.
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  Speaker 2: And I've said that on Twitter. People come back with
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  Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers. No, sir.
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  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
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  Speaker 3: We're talking about something completely different here. He was so
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  Speaker 3: big and the throws look so easy and he could
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  Speaker 3: run and everything else.
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  Speaker 2: Where it's just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: Like I we're taking it. I don't need to see
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  Speaker 2: anything else that's going on. Give me that guy. Dan
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  Speaker 2: Marino might have ultimately been a better NFL quarterback.
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  Speaker 3: There's a legitimate argument team success, no matter what it
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  Speaker 3: happened to be. But John Elway, who was kind of
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  Speaker 3: the college, the NFL Cam Newton from college, like I
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: will carry whoever it is to this place.
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  Speaker 2: But when you saw that guy, you're like, oh, him.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Was that him? except way bigger.
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  Speaker 3: He didn't have the natural throwing motion that Elway did.
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  Speaker 3: But in that draft, it's like, I don't think it
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  Speaker 3: was any way possible that you were ever going to
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  Speaker 3: set your eyes on that guy and know that.
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  Speaker 2: He can throw at all, and you didn't take him.
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  Speaker 3: Again, they were running basically a high school offense.
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  Speaker 2: And the NFL said, with.
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  Speaker 3: Character concerns right that were not entirely unfounded like it
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  Speaker 3: wasn't like I think he we're not talking about Aaron
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  Speaker 3: Hernandez red flags but there were some like hey I
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  Speaker 3: don't know if this guy might need to grow up
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  Speaker 3: a little bit right like those things were there whatever
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  Speaker 3: dog we're we'll we'll we'll show him how to do
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  Speaker 3: stuff and it cannot be forgotten he threw for 400
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  Speaker 3: yards in his first game in the NFL and none
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  Speaker 3: of us saw this. If Andrew Luck had been in
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  Speaker 3: that draft, as we had expected he was going to be,
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  Speaker 3: Andrew Luck would have been the number one pick in
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  Speaker 3: that draft.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: But Cam Newton was a number one pick.
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  Speaker 1: Gracious. Not by default, basically. It wasn't some quarterback thing. No,
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  Speaker 1: I'm glad you said the all-bust team, though. Like, that's exactly.
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  Speaker 1: I saw him in the NFL, and I went to
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  Speaker 1: camp with Cam in high school. Even then, I'm a
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  Speaker 1: tall guy.
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  Speaker 4: I'm 6'5.
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  Speaker 1: You know, like then I was really skinny, but even
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  Speaker 1: then it was like, this dude looks like one of
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  Speaker 1: the Vikings. He's picking up the football to throw it.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I didn't, I knew of guys at some
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  Speaker 1: of these camps and, but it was just one of
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  Speaker 1: those things where I was like, God dang. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: he's always talking the whole time and he's just there on.
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  Speaker 1: And then I saw him in the NFL. And like
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  Speaker 1: you said, I grew up around Dante Colbert.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And I put cam above that as far as looking
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  Speaker 1: the part like the, the, He's built.
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  Speaker 2: Well, he looked like a new part.
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  Speaker 3: Because Cam Newton is much bigger than John Elway, who,
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  Speaker 3: by the way, was a big Cam Newton fan. If
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  Speaker 3: somehow Cam Newton had slipped to number two, John Elway
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  Speaker 3: would have made the selection himself.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Felt his height threshold. He was all about those tall quarterbacks.
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  Speaker 2: Reminds me a lot of myself.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: The people who listen to this show know that's a thing.
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  Speaker 3: All those player GMs, the great player GMs, you know,
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  Speaker 3: kind of reminds me a lot of myself.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: That will be the one, but that was... He was
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  Speaker 3: that guy in that draft. And then just little did
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  Speaker 3: we know that after him would just be a slew
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  Speaker 3: and run of Hall of Famers.
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  Speaker 2: But I want to stay on that right fast. I
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  Speaker 2: almost went past it too quickly.
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  Speaker 3: But I don't think people properly appreciate what it was
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: for Cam Newton to be Cam Newton with the Panthers
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  Speaker 3: and turn that team into.
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  Speaker 2: What it was, right?
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Like my favorite moment ever still in his first game
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  Speaker 3: He threw an interception and went to tackle Daryl Washington,
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  Speaker 3: who was a real live Pro Bowl linebacker. And Daryl
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Washington slid like he was the quarterback and Cam Newton
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  Speaker 3: was the linebacker.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Like it didn't he.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Didn't look like there was like this was before they
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: would let people wear whatever number they wanted. The idea
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: that this dude was wearing number one was preposterous.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Where steve smith was it was it was it was
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: not great as i recall steve relationship then he sees
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: this big motherfucker show up and he's like oh okay
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: well maybe we'll see what we could do camp throws
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: for like 4 000 yards yep his his rookie year
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: now it was a ran.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: For a dozen touchdowns if i remember correctly yeah right.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I think it was 14 i think yeah for that
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: year now it was a weird year with spiked offensive
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: numbers because it was coming off a lockout like all
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: of those things being the case. However, this is a
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: rookie quarterback that was coming off of a lockout. He
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: was the guy. They wouldn't do it again any other way.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: It's the most relevant the franchise had ever consistently been
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: because they've been bad at stretches. But overall, the 30
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: years of Carolina Panthers football have been pretty charred when
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: you think about it.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: They started great. And then they tapered off for a while.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And then they get it back. And then they tapered
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: off again. Yeah. But even now, it's like last year,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: making the playoffs, they were with a losing record. And
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: it was all the hoopla about, like, we're hosting a
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: playoff game for the first time in a decade. And
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's kind of how dire it's been, even
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: when Cam was there. And Cam was getting beat up.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Remember the Broncos game in 2016? Yeah. Super Bowl rematch.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing, too, is that was he a perfect–
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the throwing motion. Was it perfect? No.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: But again, he was such a force of nature and
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: knew the quarterback stuff a little better than he got
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: credit for. He wasn't just a pure athlete like we
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: consider some of these guys. He actually had some quarterback
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to him. And also, he was such a force of nature.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The NFL was so rigid right before he came in
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and then RG3 came in. And then you saw Shanahan
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: with RG3 in Washington. Also, Mike Shula, who's as traditional
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: as it gets, goes, I got to get this guy
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to work because he's special. Let's go into pistol. Let's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: do basically wing T stuff so we can just open
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: up everything else. And it worked. That's how good he was.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Even though that's quote unquote simplistic compared to what the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: NFL was doing, that that's what he was. I mean, look,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you mentioned it. He was 90th, 89th percentile height for quarterbacks,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: 97th percentile weight. He had a 97th percentile broad jump.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: a 91st percentile 40-yard dash, and this is quarterbacks ever,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: so it's not like weight adjusted or anything. If I
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: just look at athletes, not even narrowing down just quarterbacks,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the athlete that he's most like, this is Cam Newton,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: is Randy Gregory.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Who's an incredible athlete at defensive end.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Evan Ingram, Tucker Craft, like these tight ends, edges, freaky
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: guys too. And he was playing quarterback. I'm glad he
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: brought up his first game. Because I think that was
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: such a statement because of the questions that he had.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, even going through that draft year, it was Cam,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: it was Gabbert who got drafted. Jake Locker was supposed
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to be the dude. And then our guy Christian Ponder
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: snuck in there. But it wasn't the ESPN magazine, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: it was those three. It was Gabbert, Cam, and Locker,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I think, did it like they had a cover. And
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that was like those were the three.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: It was the cover of Sports Illustrated, and it was
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: something like the toughest decision ever.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Right or you know it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Was it was some hyperbolic thing now to be fair
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: to sports illustrated it looks very clearly now that i
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: understand the game a little bit better they were hoping
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: to get a cam a cover story with cam newton
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: and cam newton did not give them the access it
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: did not give them a photo shoot and so they
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: kind of had to cull together a um a shot
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: out of that right so they took file photos and
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: put the three quarterbacks on there and look man white
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: people are not a complex species when it comes to
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: these things they knew that you could throw it out
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: there some people would legitimately entertain it because people did
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: legitimately entertain it there were the people saying you should
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: take blaine gabbert over cam newton not necessarily you should
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: take blaine gabbert number one but that you should take
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: blaine gabbert Blaine Gabbert, who was not as good in
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: college as Chase Daniel, was at the same school and
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: the same offense. But people had talked themselves into that one.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Jake Locker, who I was all about, he was one
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: of those where the more you saw him, the less
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: you liked him. Yes.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: As a freshman, he's the ultimate athlete playing quarterback.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Incredible athlete.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Incredible athlete. Big, he built like a tight end, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: then couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. And then.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: No.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: We watched, I got early exposure to him in college
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: because we played in the Rose Bowl. So we're watching
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a bunch of Pac-10s at the time, Pac-10 film. And
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: so we watched a lot of Washington. And I'm watching,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is supposed to, even in college, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: was like, this is supposed to be the guy that
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like everyone's been hyping up. Like he couldn't hit a pass,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: anything past 10 yards. But I'm with you after his
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: freshman year, especially because he was a big recruit, goes
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to Washington. that's when Washington was God awful. And he was, and,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: but he just never got better, but truly supposed to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: be a great guy of all that. But you're not
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: lying though. Like I remember Gabbert still getting hype the
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: month of the draft, the month of the draft leading
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: up to it. I remember reading stuff. I remember watching stuff.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And again, I was in college, but I was still
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: checking in on this stuff. And my dad was with teams.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: And I remember Gabbert was still getting like, well, I
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: don't know that, you know, some teams still like Gabbert
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: over Cam Newton because he, He functions more like an
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: NFL quarterback. It's like, really? In that Mizzou offense where
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: he's eight yards deep in the shotgun? Like, I don't
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: know about that, guys. But, yeah, that was still a discussion.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: And I think Von Miller was kind of considered the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: surest thing, more than anything, because he got so much hype.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: But even he had a couple qualms at the end there. But, man,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I just really think that it was just, by the end,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the discussion on that, it softened so much how we
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: look at quarterbacks. Because of that, just a little run
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: of guys in my little generation there, Cam, RG3, Russ,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Russell Wilson, like just kind of like what the prerequisites are,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: not just like scheme or not just like, you know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: traits and everything, but also what offenses they ran. Because
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: like even like Mike Vick, when he came into the league,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Virginia Tech was running a pretty, I would say pro style,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: but there's more pro style to it than spread it out,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: zone read every play. It was just kind of a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: hybrid kind of thing. And even he didn't have as
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: many questions as I thought that Cam did when he
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: came into the league. And again, I was younger, but
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I still remember these kind of discussions about it. But
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: when you look back and you see, oh yeah, we
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: can work with this. 99th percentile athlete playing quarterback. One
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: of the greatest athletes and greatest size guys I've ever
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: seen with one of the biggest arms I've ever seen.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Even if it's not perfect, I think, yeah, the right
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: decision was made.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: In a way, he got Josh Allen in here, right?
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: In a way, Josh Allen got Anthony Richardson in here.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: And not that Josh Allen and Cam Newton were the
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: same college quarterbacks, but they weren't. But it was the same.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'll try.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Like, think about even if it's not in the first round,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: like all the Tom Savages and the likes that people
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: were like, oh yeah, no, no, no, I'll give that
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: a run. Yeah, the greatest college football player ever. Yeah, no, no, no, no,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I'll give that a run. And then after him, by
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the way, this is where this draft gets to be fun.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: There are enough great players in this draft that you
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: have like legitimate who's better players discussions of like multiple
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: players at similar positions or like of similar calibers at
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: premium positions in the NFL.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Like, so let's talk.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Briefly about the guys who showed, I don't even know
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: if flashes is the right way to put it, but
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: edge rushers from this draft. who were really good but
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: are not in the discussion for being like the top
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: two pass rushers. Like Alton Smith, who had more sacks
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: in his first two years than any other player in
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: NFL history at the time, as I recall. Just winds
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: up being another guy.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: If he was normal. Right, right.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: But Robert Quinn, a really, really good player that was
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: in this draft.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: 102 sacks.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Justin Houston, who once had 20 sacks in a season.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Ryan Kerrigan.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: 112 sacks.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. Right. Really, really good player. That's there. However,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: neither of them is JJ Watt or Von Miller.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Right. And like, that's where we get to is like
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: this draft lets you say who you got Von Miller
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: or Watt and Watt being a more, I guess Watt
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: is more of an interior rusher than Von Miller was,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: but even still like we're talking guys of similar caliber here.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: We're Von Miller, Superbowl MVP, Von Miller.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Truly.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Truly game-wrecking defensive guys truly guys that you have to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: account for every single play and if you don't you're
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: dead and there's two of those guys and there's still
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: this class this draft class had five guys with 100
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: or more career sacks and that's including ryan kerrigan cameron
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: hayward alden smith which we just talked about drill casey
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was in this class cam jordan.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah cam jordan.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Cam Jordan, yeah, Cam Jordan had 130, he has 132
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: career sacks.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like there's an argument about which Cam do you take,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: and not after the quarterback Cam.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, there's three Cams in this class that
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: are worthy of this. Like, I'm glad you brought up
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Ryan Kerrigan. Ryan Kerrigan was dominant in the Big Ten,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: goes pick 16, makes four Pro Bowls, And he's like, yeah,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: 16 was fair in this class because there's just so
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: much talent like that could have gone above him. He
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: was a force. No, I'm glad you brought up Justin
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Houston because he was and he got knocked because of
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: weed stuff. And that that was a whole thing like, too,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: because but then he gets in the league. Also, the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: oldest looking 22 year old you'll ever see in your life.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: He got drafted. He's looked like he's 48 since he's
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: been drafted.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: George has always got a couple of those, man. Like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: George has got a lot of them old souls.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Really, too. Some in the water down there.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, maybe it's the, you know, the nods
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: from all them driving so fast, you know, just making
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: me age a little bit. Adds a couple wrinkles when
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: you're cranking it up, going 120. And I played with J.J.,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and J.J. was, I mean, right away, the first time
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I ever met J.J.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Watt.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I transferred to Wisconsin. He transferred to Wisconsin, too. He
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: was a tight end at Central Michigan, I believe. And
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: he comes in. We had a shoot around. It was
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: like the first... week I was there in the summer.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And we did like a little, oh, we're going to
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: do like a little basketball challenge. The whole team comes out.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: All right, shoot around. Final thing. And he does his thing.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But then he started rebounding for everybody. And then so
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: he's just sitting there. I think he was in flip flops.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I remember backwards hat. I think flip flops. He rebounds
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: one of my balls. And then he just flat foots,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: dunks it. in flip flops at six, six, 290 pounds.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, I remember I asked one
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: of my coaches, I was like, there I go. That's JJ.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, interesting. He goes, he starts
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that year. And that was like a redshirt sophomore year.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: We had a guy named O'Brien Schofield, who was probably
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit better at that time. And then that's,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: what's crazy. It was like, Oh, JJ is nice. He's good.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And then he comes around and we played Ohio state senior,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: his junior year. We were the same class, but he
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: came out early. And, He gets three sacks, gets Terrell Pryor,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: absolutely dominates the entire game. And all of a sudden,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I see him starting to get hyped up as a
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: first-round guy. I was like, I could see that. And
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: he tests. That's another thing about JJ, is I get
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the Captain America shtick and all that, and what do
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you want about? Also, one of the freakiest athletes I've
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: ever seen play football, period. And just also one of
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the smarter guys. But it was just so crazy to
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: see him, his rise, going from like, oh, a pretty
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: good college player. Oh, no, he's actually a freak. Oh, no,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: he's actually going in the first round. Oh, no, he's
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: actually going number 11 overall. Like, Wade Phillips was like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: please let me get this guy. Like, crying. I think
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Rex Ryan, they took Wilkerson. Rex Ryan, I read the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: book Collision of Little Crossers, and their coaches were just, like,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: chanting J.J. Watt because they wanted him to fall. Like,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Rex Ryan really wanted J.J., but it was just– if
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I thought he would be a real good pro, I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: didn't think he'd be this, and I was around him
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: every day. And there's no disrespect to him. The fact
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that he became even better is insane because he was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: such a good college player already. But, again, a guy
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that gets underrated for his freakiness. You see it sometimes, but, man,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: he was unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable as a player.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: And if you want to see quarterback premium at action, J.J.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Watt was drafted in between Blaine Gabbard and Christian Ponder.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Those were the guys who, like, bookended him.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I love Christian Ponder. In this draft.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Like Christian Ponder going at 12. That's what I realized. Or,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I didn't realize it at the time.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: But it was a sign that NFL coaches really think
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: that Jimbo Fisher is dog shit. Because on one level,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: it was, okay, well, maybe they think Jimbo does a
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: good job of developing guys. And that's why they go
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: draft them. Or they feel like if they could do
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: what they did in the offense that they were in.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: maybe they might be first-round picks.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Because it was E.J.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Manuel winning the first round a couple years after this,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and we couldn't really understand exactly what was going on there.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: And I just realized, oh, they are just rebuking him.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: That is the only explanation. Because Christian Ponder, Jake Locker,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I understood. Blaine Gabbert, maybe. Christian Ponder, whose idea was this?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I never saw it once. Like there wasn't one college
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: game where I was like, yeah, you know, I see
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: getting a shot. Like you said, with Jake Walker, it's like, okay,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: those tools, man, he's supposed to be a great dude.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Even when Jameis came out, that actually worked in his
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: favor that he, people were used that he could tolerate
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and handle Jimbo as a positive. Yeah. All that stuff
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: that was going around with Jameis coming out and, you know,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the crab legs, all that stuff. That was, I remember
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: being in scouting rooms and they go, oh, well he
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: can handle Jimbo that, I mean, he's going to be
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: able to take NFL coaching legs. No issue. And they
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: didn't mean it as a compliment. They meant it more
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: or a compliment to Jimbo. They meant more like, no,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: he can deal with bullshit and he's going to be
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: fine once he gets the NFL. That actually, I still
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: vividly remember that. It wasn't like, oh, he can operate
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: this pro offense and this wordy stuff. It was like, no, no,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he can tolerate the mind games of Jimbo and all
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the stuff that he does. No, but the Ponder one,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: even then, God, I remember when I was a kid
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: or a kid. Yeah, I was a kid in college.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I remember. Christian ponders a first round. Well, you know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I guess the NFL teams know a little bit better
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: than me. I'm just 21, you know, and even, but
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: even then as a 21 year old, I was like,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I don't see this guy as anything more than like
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: maybe Brad Johnson on the greatest day ever. Another Florida
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: state guy.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you know, as the best day ever,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: but that was that way out of the outcomes of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: what ponder actually could have been. I mean, but there's,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I forgot about Mike Pouncey.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: How about this? I just went through for the defensive players.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: We got 10 guys that we would, pass rush was
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: a little too broad.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I guess we'll just go with down linemen. 10 of
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: them who made Pro Bowls.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Like you threw Jarrell Casey out there, who I think
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: went from Tennessee to USC, like one of those. But
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: like Jarrell Casey is like a four or five time
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Pro Bowler and kind of lost in the shuffle of that,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: which we are discussing.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. 51 sacks, five Pro Bowls.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like you said, Cam Jordan has 130-something sacks.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And he's down the list of this class.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Cam Hayward has an on-paper, fairly unassailable Hall of Fame case.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know how much thought anybody has really given
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: as to whether or not he is a Hall of Famer.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that as a judgment. I'm just saying
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: that at this point, there were so many guys that
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: came out of this draft. By the way, Cam Hayward
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: and Cam Jordan still playing for the teams that drafted them.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: When I say still playing, like playing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Yes. You know, like Hayward was an all pro two
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: years ago.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Like playing, not just playing snaps, like no impacting the game. Like,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: and also just not missing any time, like, which is
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: also a freaky thing in its own right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: And these are the other guys in this draft, but
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: coming up next, we got some more guys in the
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: draft to talk about.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And the question is, is this the greatest draft there
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: ever was?
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• 28:36
  Speaker 3: All right, we are back with Nate Tice. Another fun
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: who's the best in this draft.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: DBs.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: One, you kind of saw it coming forever. You saw
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: it coming when he was a junior in high school.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: And the other one you had to get proof of
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: concept of. That first one would be Patrick Peterson. The
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: second one would be Richard Sherman. These guys are the
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: same draft to me. Patrick Peterson is maybe the best
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: athlete I've ever seen play quarter like that corner, that
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: whole speed to.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Power thing that people talk about.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Like, I feel like he is the, the physical embodiment
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: of that concept. And then on the other side, you
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: can say whatever you want about the scheme that they
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: ran in Seattle and everything else, Richard Sherman got it done.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: And, and I agree with him on his outlook of,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: and I turned it around. Like I tricked guys into
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: throwing picks and I brought the ball back the other way.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: He Richard is one of these. Well, he also Richard
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Sherman led to more bad draft picks than one probably
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: any other player because everyone tried to copy the Seahawks
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Legion of Boom for about eight. years, and they just
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: looked at Sherman and were like, oh, long arms. Okay,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: let's go after everyone with long arms. It was like, well,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: he's kind of his own thing. He truly is his
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: own thing. I've been struggling to find a historical comparison
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: ever for Richard Sherman, not just like former receiver or anything,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: but just size. His athleticism was his ball skills. Like,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: you know, like his body control and ball skills as
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: opposed to speed, twitch, all those.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: They convert a receiver.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Convert a receiver. That's right. While Patrick Peterson was, I
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: agree with you, one of the freakiest corners ever watched.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I would say him and probably Ramsey. Ramsey was kind
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: of his own thing, too.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: And Diaz Sanders right fast. Just have to throw that
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: one out there.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, him.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: But the thing is, Diaz just wasn't nearly as big
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: as these guys were.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: No.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: And even like champ Bailey wasn't as big as these guys. Like, yeah.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Monster.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like Peterson's what? Six, two, all six, two.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I remember he has long arms. I remember that. And
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: then also returns punts, which I also think is like
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: a barometer for real athleticism as like, if you're a stud,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying anything new here, but if
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: you're a stud position player and you're a dynamic returner,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I treat your athleticism as something a little different. That's
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: why there's the Randy Moss Award in college, and it's
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: for punt returners.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Dion returning. Patrick Peterson returning. Like, those, okay, get our
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: best player with the ball in his hands, even if
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: he plays corner. Yeah, Peterson was 6'4. He was 219.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: 99th percentile weight of all corners, all time. 32-inch arms. 4'3,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: 140 at 219 pounds. And this dude was returning punts.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and locking guys down in man coverage and playing for
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a garbage-ass franchise while doing it. There was no help around.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I know they had some success when the Arians got there. But, man,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: he's kind of a forgotten guy. Maybe not amongst me, you,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and guys that watch around this time. But he's kind
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: of starting to get lost a little bit, I've realized.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Because this guy was a three-time All-Pro, eight-time Pro Bowler,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: played over a decade. like that's a hall of fame
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: resume for a corner.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: It's a no brainer to me.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I don't think anyone treats them like that.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I think they will once his time comes and everything,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: but like right now in this little window, I think
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: he's kind of just getting lost a little bit in
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the shuffle of kind of like his guys.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Like I think pro ball count can get weird. Cause like,
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: like you throw a pro ball count at me about
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Jason Witten and I stand on my, I stand on
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: my heel stronger than ever that that is not a
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: hall of famer.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: However, and, The thing about corner is corner is not
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: a position where dudes rack up a bunch of pro
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: bowls because that is a young man's job, right? Like
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: there's a, there's a level at which you kind of
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: got to get good. And then your time to stay
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: good before the physical fall off. The window is very
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: short before you wind up going to safety or whatever
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: it is. You are an eight time pro bowler at corner.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: You were doing it.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Period.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Great point too. Like, cause corners too.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: It's like usually takes, it's a hard, position to learn,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: like as far as they adapt to the NFL, usually
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: it takes a year. It's a year three position usually.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So if you're impacting it early and then if you,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: if you're a solid corner after 30, that's a miracle.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Most guys, once they hit 30, that thing drops off
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: a cliff. And so that's, it's the Vince Carter theory.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It's the really good athletes age a lot better. The
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: real big guys, they can become better role players as
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: they get older, as they get older. But I agree
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: with you. Like usually those peaks are two years. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that's why even Sherman being a tolerable, like even when
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: we went to the 49ers, was like a solid player,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: is because he became the old man at the Y
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: that just had great size. And he was just like,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: all right, I'm just not going to get out of position,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: even if some of these faster, speedier guys are going
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to get me. He couldn't tackle a slot guy and
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: save his life. But his age well, but Peterson too.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Think about this right fast.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Darrell Rivas was in the Hall of Fame at 38.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: He got in. Wow. But is that like it felt
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: like he had a short lifespan?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Roberto Clemente or something. Yeah, he got in
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: and got out. Yeah, because, yeah, he was at Pitt.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: You just fucked me up right now.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Look, they should put a statue of him in front
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: of the Players Association offices. Nobody went in, got their money,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: got their ring, and got the fuck out like Darrell
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Reeves did.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: And got a nickname, got the respect of his peers.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Randy Moss is saying he's the best corner you ever
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: went against. Like, you know, like that's, that's enough for me.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: If he's, he went against Dion, he went against the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: guys and he said, no Darrell Revis. That's the one
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: guy for Moss to say that for Randy to say
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that that's saying something. And then it gets an all
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: time nickname. And then it's like, okay. And everyone's, everyone's
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: on the same page with the Revis too. Everyone's just like, yeah, yeah.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Strong. Like bull.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: That was the thing with him is that he's, he's
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: redirecting you off snap.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And there's really nothing you can do. And never out
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: of whack.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Also, another college guy that returned punts.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: See?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Here we go. The best is there.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: So, also in the 2011 draft, I just want to
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: say this quick because Ryan had posed this as a question.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I'm curious what you think because I don't think it's
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: that close. But it's the Julio Jones versus A.J.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Green, where A.J.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Green, to me, is a very good, not quite Hall
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: of Fame receiver. And the Hall can be weird about
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: receivers and when they ultimately let them in. And Julio
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Jones has that weird no-touchdown thing. However, that boy's going
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: to the Hall of Fame.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Period. Yeah. And also in the Hall of Fame, too,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: is reputation. Mike and Julio has that a little bit
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: more than Green. I agree with you. Green is very good,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: had a nice little kind of four or five year
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: kind of window where he was very, very good. Didn't
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: make one, no first team All-Pros for a reason, while
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Julio has two. But Julio has that kind of, I mean,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want to knock AJ Green because he was great,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: but it's Julio.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: He also played with Andy Dalton. yeah yeah shit he
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: might get in now that i think about it.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I know because i will not know all pros hurts
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of receivers backing up right now
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: like there's about to be there's such a glut of
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: those guys um but julio had again like the 300
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: yard game or whatever he had against carolina like he
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: has those those games he has the dunk over luke
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: keekly um where he's high point over him he even
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: has like a play against he has to play in
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the super bowl when they lost when he's on the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: sideline catch what would have been the greatest one of
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: the greatest catches ever if they win Um, he has
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: like just those moments, maybe it's the AJ Green banglesness
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of it, but Julio Jones has the Falconess of it. Uh, yeah.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And Julio, AJ Green was hype too. Like, uh, I,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I'm yes. Uh, ESPN did a next articles back in
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the day, you know, like, Oh, these guys, AJ Green
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: got that over Julio when they're coming out of high school.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: But Julio always had that kind of just wait. Like his,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: he plays as a true freshman for Nick Saban. nick
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: saban recruited him he just held out his rings and
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: says you either win one of these or you don't
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: like there's all these like there's like mythology about julio
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and i think to me whether that's a narrative thing
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that to me and also just the force of nature
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: moments is more hall of famer caliber to me so
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: i think it's actually pretty easily i would say julio
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: over ag green as much as i love ag green
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah no but it's still both of those guys in
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: the top 10 of the same draft is kind of
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: nuts that top 10 Also had Tyron Smith in it. Basically,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: as long as you took a quarterback that didn't take
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: a quarterback who wasn't Cam Newton, you was straight early
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: in that draft. But Tyron Smith is the one that
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: offensive linemen talk about with just a reverence for the athleticism.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: All-timer. And also played right tackle in college. Drafted at 20.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Super young. Signed one of the craziest pro deals ever
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: with his extent. He signed like a nine-year deal, seven-year,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: eight-year deal. like an NHL contract or like a Juan
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Soto contract. But truly, I mean, this guy was 320
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and had abs. Like that was– I mean, there's not
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: many offensive linemen that get the picture treatment. Like watch
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: this guy work out. Oh, my God. You know, you
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: usually get some defensive edge guys, maybe some tight ends,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: shirt off stuff. You usually don't get the offensive lineman
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: shirt off clips, and then they can back it up.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Like he was– Cause his technique got so good. It's
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: truly a one of one athlete at the position. I'm
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: really right now, as we're talking about, I'm trying to
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: think of someone that I would put over that as
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: far as just athletic, like just like tear. I'm not
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to your, um, um, traits and everything. And also could play.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just like a lost cause tripping over himself. Um, anti-immunos. Like,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to just think who are some of these freaky,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: freaky all-time athletes. He had injury stuff, and if he didn't,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: he would be considered a Hall of Famer. And he
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: still went to, oh, my God, eight Pro Bowls?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to get in. It's a question of when,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: but he's going to get in.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, my God. He played 170 games. I mean,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that's a ton. And I know there's no real offensive
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: lineman stats, but longevity really does matter. Reputation, everyone goes, oh,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: he was one of the greatest athletes that ever played
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: offensive line. multiple all time or first team, all pros
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: played on the Cowboys can't hurt.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He's going to get in. He, he is, I,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not just trying to even think there's subtle plays
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: with him too. Like where he would like cut off
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: a block that like he would reach a guy that
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: like no one else is even fathoming it. Like anytime
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I used to tweet clips about Tyron Smith, there's Mike
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Golick Jr. in my replies going like.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Because it's just, again, offensive line play can be subtle,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: but he made them like highlights, even outside the pancakes
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: with all the freaky stuff he did.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you, also a guy like him,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: when it comes down to the Hall of Fame process,
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: he's the one where the writers start calling former players.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And they're like, so what do you think about blank?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, ho, I love a chair, brother.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Wait till you see that kick set. Wait till you
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, let me tell you.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: About that, Kelly.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Nah, nah, nah, you can't.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: You gotta understand what we're talking about here, right? That'll
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: get you in the Hall of Fame. So, for example,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about this a little bit later when
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: we do some draft comparison, but Jimbo Covert is in
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame with something like three or four
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Pro Bowls, right?
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: The resume is not there, but clearly, His peers were like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: That one was different.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Great. Bo, that's a perfect comparison. Because he was considered
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: an all-time freak. And he had the Pitt stuff, where
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: they had that offensive line in the 80s, where he
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was the leader of that. He was the big recruit.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: He was a wrestler. He did WWF stuff back in
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the day, too. So he had that going for him.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: And another guy, he might be one of the other.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, the offensive lineman then weighed 280. But another guy.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: O'Lyman with abs kind of thing.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: That's a great– because he didn't have a super long career,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: but it was one of those very impactful careers, and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: everyone was just like– and everyone talks– when I was
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: working at Pitt, you brought up Tom Savage, which made
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: me crack up because he was one of the quarterbacks
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: we had at Pitt when I was there. But when Jimbo–
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: they still talk about Jimbo as just like the pinnacle.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Like of all those players there, they're like, no, he's
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the Pitt guy. Right there is Jimbo.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to run.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Pitt was like what Miami was before Miami was, like
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: USC also.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Like those are the ones that get lost, but Pitt.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: There's really no explanation for why it is that Pitt
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: just couldn't stay good, right? Like, I don't have the
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: great answer for how that happened because that area produced dudes,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: and they were, like, 1980s Pitt football was a thing, guys.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, they still, Darrell.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Rivas, Sean McCoy, like, they still, Larry Fitzgerald, they still
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: had dudes.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, he, I mean, the old line, I think Dan
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Marino played with three. Bill Freilich. Yep. Mark May. Mark May.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's one more. I'm blanking. But he
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: played with like three or four legit Pro Bowl offensive linemen.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: And then they had Tim Lewis. Oh, Russ Grimm. Russ
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Grimm was the other guy. Hall of Famer. Ricky Jackson.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: They had freaking Hugh Green, who was.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: An all-time great college football player.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Heisman finalist as a defensive player, if I remember correctly.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: They had some dudes. And my dad got recruited by Pitt.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And what's his face? Jackie Sherrill left, I believe.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he went to Texas A & M.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Texas a & m and uh yeah that and i
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: think that was the reason he didn't end up going
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: but like that like pit because the pit was the
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: it was the shit i mean yeah tony set i
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: mean they they they claim national championships they were playing
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: georgia where they're ranked second like in the sugar bowl like.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: All that stuff like yeah beat him in that sugar
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: bowl yes.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: They were they were unbelievable it was it was cool
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the pit football history is pretty cool like if you
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: ignore the 90s Yeah.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And, you know, the way you respond and then, you know,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you kind of just talk.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: They always were schooled on it, even if they weren't
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: winning a lot. They always had a couple of dudes. Always.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Like that was I mean, even in the 90s, you
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: get Sean Gilbert as an example of a guy, Antonio
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Bryan in the early 2000s.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: They always had to do. By the way, on this draft,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I just forgot about a guy I want to send
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: a shout-out to.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: I know it's going to sound crazy, but shout-out to
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Andy Dalton, who, if you think about it, all-time great
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: productive second-round pick. It was the Bengals shopping in the
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: bargain bin, and it put a ceiling on what they
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: could do, but they immediately became playoff good when they
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: drafted A.J. Green and they let Andy Dalton play quarterback.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: It actually worked out pretty well for them in some ways.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: They returned to credibility.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: The Andy Dalton tier. That's kind of what he was.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: That king of the I mean, who is it now?
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: It was Kirk Cousins for a little bit. Yeah. Like,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: just whoever that kind of quarterback 16 to 19 range.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, can you win with him or not?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yep. And Andy Dalton was, again, another guy that I
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: have college experience with. We played TCU in the Rose Bowl.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: And he took a zone read for, like, I don't
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: think it was a score, but, like, a first down.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: And I remember just being like, this asshole's zone reading us.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, this guy shouldn't be doing the zone
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: read against us because he was an okay athlete college-wise. But, no,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: he was awesome. I mean, those TCU teams were loaded, too. Yeah.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: That's when they were rolling, and that was before, you know,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: now they're in the bigger conferences and stuff. But, man,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: he was the captain of that stuff or the leader
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: of those teams. He had a nice, good career and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: played right away, too.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: That's right. He walked right out of Texas, right out
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: of TCU. You couldn't win with him, but... Pretty good
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: NFL career.
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: For a second rounder.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Still going, by the way.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: We got signed by the Eagles, which I'm still saying,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: why did they do that? Is that Tanner McKee trade?
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: We're on this one right here.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Wendy, why are you doing that? What does that mean? Yeah.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Those Bengals teams are loaded.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: They were. They were. They just had Andy Dalton at quarterback.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like I just completely undercut my whole thing.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: You started with the compliment with them, and then you
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: said the downside of having Andy Dalton at quarterback.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: I just completely undercut my whole thing.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Now, I was going to raise the question, and I
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: think it's still a question because the depth of this
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: draft was so impressive as to whether or not the
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: 2011 draft is the greatest of all time. Like, I
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: think it probably winds up being seven Hall of Famers,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: What other ones do you have up there? Okay, so I.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Don't have Cam going.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: I will say, not in order of greatness, but I'm
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: just saying as I remember it, I think Richard Sherman's
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: going to go in.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: We did not mention Jason Kelsey.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: I think he will go in, though I think it'll
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: take a while.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I think he's going to go in.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Von Miller's going to go. Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, Tyron Smith, J.J.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Watt.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: By the way, we didn't get to DeMarco Murray, rushing champion. Um,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Cam Hayward, I think we'll go in that gets us
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: to eight. And I think Cam Jordan's one of those who,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: if you give it long enough, he'll wind up going in.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: But I think eight is where I feel pretty steady
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: about who's going to go in.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Man. God. Yeah. That's where the classes are up there
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: with this.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: So 83 has nine. We think about the quarterbacks, but
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: I'm going to run through the full list. And I
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: think it's in order, the way I'm reading this is
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: in order of where they were drafted. John Elway, Eric Dickerson,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Jimbo Covert, Bruce Matthews, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Daryl Green,
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: the newly elected Roger Craig, and Richard Dent.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, Richard Dent, yeah, that's right. Former Seattle. Okay.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of guys.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And not even just including all the quarterbacks. Yeah, man.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: There's Daryl Green talking about athletes at the corner position.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: All the time. H-Town, by the way. H-Town, by the way.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Let me go ahead and make sure we throw that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: out here. Like a 4'3.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: At 40 years old.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: At his size, in the era in which he played,
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: playing corner, and you know what else he did?
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Return punts.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: There we go i'll be looking out for you have you.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Seen that that 30 for 30 elway to marino the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: the dog on that oh i know i i i'm
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: a sucker for that even if you know there's always
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: some biases with that but i i'm a sucker for
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: that but cam jordan 132 career sacks he's just below
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: john abraham ricky jackson jared allen john randall he's right
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: in that range like john randall had 137 and a
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: half different type of player i get it but jared
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: allen had 136 God, John Abraham at 133.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: God.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a one of those that you're going to
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: look up and you're like, oh, he's in the Hall
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: of Fame, huh?
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. You know what I mean?
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Like somebody's just going to bring the case and they'll
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: be like, well, you know how many sacks he had, right?
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Wow, really? Oh, wow.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: That's how I just reacted to John. John Abraham's one
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: of those guys because I was such an NFC guy
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: growing up that like Abraham was like, I didn't really
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: realize what he was until he got to the Falcons.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: And then it was like, you know, so his Jets career,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, he's one of those four
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: first round picks they had that year. Okay.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: And then he gets to the Falcons. Oh, oh, shoot.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Okay. It's kind of like when Khalil Mack went to
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: the Bears. It was like, oh, that's what they've been
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: hiding over there.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: The only startable player on that whole Raiders defense. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: this is actually what he looks like. Okay, man. No,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: but I mean, this is just fine. Just go through
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: the names. But so he has, yeah, 132 career sacks.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: And then my guys, man, he has more sacks than
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Jim Marshall. He has more sacks than Derek Thomas.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Who played like 270 consecutive games.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dwight Freeney has more sacks than Robert Mathis. Yes.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: How about Simeon Rice? Do you think Simeon Rice is
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer?
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: I think there is a precedent for putting him in
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame. I think that he's on the line.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: If you go either way, I could understand it. But
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: in a world where Fred Dean has gone in and
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: Kevin Green has gone in, why was Simeon Rice.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Who was a revolutionary athlete, by the way.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: He was way different than other guys that time period.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: The argument against him is like, I don't know if
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: it feels that way, right?
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Like, that's... But, I mean.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: I think he comes down to a guy that would
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: certainly qualify as a Hall of Fame player. You have
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: to decide if he had a Hall of Fame career.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: And I think that he put up enough accolades plus
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: a Super Bowl ring where you on the way to
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: which you watch him chasing Michael Vick down in the playoffs.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: And you're like, oh, OK, let me throw another draft that,
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: you know, 1996 set the receiver draft. It is the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: receiver draft, but only two of those receivers. This is
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: a depth draft because only two of those receivers, Marvin
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: Harrison and Terrell Owens, so far in the Hall of Fame.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: But the Ravens drafted two Hall of Famers that year,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty good draft. We just talked about Jonathan
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Ogden up there. Tyron Smith, yes, that's another name.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Pretty good draft there for the Ravens. Brian Dawkins, Zach Thomas,
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: and Adam Vinatieri. You also cannot forget that the... 1989
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: draft which is for basketball fans analogous to the 1984
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: draft because the 89 draft has troy aikman barry sanders
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: derrick thomas and.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: The other one dion are your four your top five picks.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the other guy was the tackle for
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: the Packers.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Tony Mandarich.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: The incredible bulk.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: The incredible bulk.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: Tony Mandarich was the first guy that America looked at
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and was like, I know why he's that big, okay? Like,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty, I think I know what the answer is.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Apparently the Packers did not.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know he went to Michigan State, but I
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: was like, man, he must be meeting with those Nebraska
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: strength coaches. Yeah. He's on that Tom Osborne strength program.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if he's ever been in the WWE. Yeah,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: it's a little different.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: But let me tell you what's wild about the 96
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: being the receiver draft that is interesting.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Just about all of them panned out.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: Yep. Keyshawn Johnson, but not necessarily Hall of Famers, right?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: No, but a lot of good ones.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison. Eric Moulds, Bobby Ingram,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Moussa Mohammed, Amani Toomer, Jermaine Lewis, Joe Horn.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Those are all really good receivers.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Joe Horn.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: Turned out only a couple of them were truly of
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame caliber, but I don't think any
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: of those teams... Now, the Jets took Alex Van Dyke,
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: whom I've.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Never heard of.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: I don't think they were that happy. Brian Steele for
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: the Chargers. I don't think they were that happy. But
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: just about everybody that went shopping for a receiver came
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: back with something they could feel good about.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Man, but even the other guys in that class, Zach
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Thomas was in this class, Brian Dawkins. So two kind
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of very, I don't want to use the word iconic,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: but maybe players at that time period were, you know,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: they were the dudes. I mean, they really were. Willie Anderson,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: who should be a.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: Hall of Famer.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Teddy Bruschi.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Eddie George.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Eddie George was in this draft.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Lawyer Malloy.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Steven Jackson.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, Steven Jackson.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, not Steven Davis. I'm sorry. Steven Davis.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, Steven Davis. Another good name. Mike Allstott.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: John Runyon.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: John Runyon. Yes. God. Hold on.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Leroy Glover. Leroy Glover. Really good player.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I'm glad you brought up Steven Davis. That
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: bunch of memories just came back there. Kevin Hardy.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Shout out to Michael Westbrook. You remember that time?
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: We didn't even mention the number one pick. We mentioned it.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I think you already said it. Yeah, Keyshawn. We mentioned Keyshawn.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: 24-year-old receiver going number one.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Hey, look. Keyshawn was a good player. And it's funny
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: that you mention that because Simeon Rice is in this draft.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Simeon Rice. Another one. Yes.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Kevin Hardy and Simeon. The top four of this draft
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: was actually a really good top four. Keyshawn Johnson, Kevin Hardy,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: Simeon Rice, and Jonathan Ogden.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: You could do worse.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Tim Bianca Batuca.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Top ten pick in this draft.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: Ricky Dudley, who I thought was going to be the
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: greatest tight end in the history of mankind.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I remember him. He was a beast. God, Ohio State, right?
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a beast.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: He was. I'm glad he brought Moussa Mohamed because I
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: literally was watching Moussa Mohamed. I literally was watching his
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: highlights last week because I was trying to find a
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: comparison for Denzel Boston in this draft class from Washington.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: And Moussa was who I kind of came to. It
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: was Moussa Mohamed, which... I think if you have that career,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you're very happy with that. And he's just another one
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: of these receivers. Cause there's so many in this class,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: you know, cause even the, the background, some of these
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: guys like Terrell Owens, Tennessee Chattanooga, you know, like that's,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: that's not a very common spot to find a hall
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: of famer. Like Marvin Harrison at Syracuse, you know, they
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: were a lot better than, than we would consider now,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: but still coming from there, Ogden was such a cool
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: background with discus throwing and all that. Like he was
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: a track athlete and he's, Legitimately all of 6'9. Like,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: he's truly NBA height and one of the greatest athletes
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: to ever play tackle.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: The picture of Ogden playing at that little bitty, super
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: fancy private school and them poor children having to try
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: to deal. And if you can find that picture, they
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: made even, we taping this in enough advance that they
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: can put this onto YouTube. If you look at that
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: picture of Jonathan Ogden pulling on that play, I personally
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: would have gone down in a heap. before he got
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: anywhere near me.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: He was, and we're talking about all bus teams. Like there,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it's hard to talk that.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like as long as you can't, like you might
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: get thrown off because he got a lot of dork
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: in him.
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that was his big knock was that he's too soft.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: He was too soft. He was too soft.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: It was like, It never came up.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: It never came up. That was, it was just always,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: he was a locked in all pro. That's how I
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: remember him anyways. Yeah.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: It's just like, like, I don't know if he ever
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: had to get to the place, you know what I mean?
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Who's challenging him at that point?
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: It's just like, okay. But like, look at how long
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: my arms are. Like nobody, you know, nobody gets anywhere
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: near me.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I know. It's crazy. So much that offensive grittiness, and
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: this is a side, but. With like offensive linemen, that's
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: something that people overrate when they're scouting a lineman is
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: they think everything's like the blindside movie where the guy's
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: getting a pancake 20 yards off the field. It's like
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: you never see that. It's like good offensive line play
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: is so boring. And I think that's why people don't
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: like to watch it. I get it. But like the
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: best guys are just on the guy by. run a
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: guy by it's like there's no he's not even being
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: challenged and that's a very good thing it's not all
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: about the power bombs and the rock bottoms that you
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: can do on those guys because that doesn't really happen
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: in the nfl sorry thank you for my little my
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: little tangent there.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Nah you're all good man so i do think i've
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: decided second best draft 1983 is number one we'll see
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: how this one all turns out that's nate tice check
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: him out yahoo sports covering the nfl my brother i
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: appreciate you.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me always fun going down memory lane with.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: You bo Amen. I appreciate it. And ladies and gentlemen,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us here on The Right Time.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handles
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir.
• 55:18
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• 55:24
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• 55:27
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• 55:29
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• 55:31
  Speaker 3: of days.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Take it easy.