Latest / Books4Guys / From Cardiology to Crime Fiction: T.K. Bush on Writing Thrillers, Overcoming Self Doubt, and Chasing a Lifelong Dream

Transcript

From Cardiology to Crime Fiction: T.K. Bush on Writing Thrillers, Overcoming Self Doubt, and Chasing a Lifelong Dream · Books4Guys

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into today's episode, I want to thank our executive development partner, Standard Pursuit.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Founded by Hunter Dittrickson, Standard Pursuit is a coaching community built for founders, entrepreneurs, and high performers who are ready to step into the next version of themselves.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Through one-on-one coaching and the Standard Training Club, Hunter helps people strengthen both their physical and mental operating systems so they can think more clearly, lead more effectively, and perform at a higher level.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I appreciate most about what Hunter is building is that he understands success isn't just about business.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's about health, mindset, discipline, leadership, and becoming the type of person capable of achieving the goals you set for yourself.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking to sharpen your performance, improve your habits, and operate at a higher level both personally and professionally, I encourage you to check out StandardPursuit at standardpursuit.com.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get to today's episode.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'll actually be in Florida in about four days.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: We just moved back down from Virginia, so I was up there for the last eight years.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't spent a ton of time in Virginia.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Been there a little bit, but we do our, like most people that live in the South, we do our yearly Florida vacation in that like 30A Destin area.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll be down there for a week.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot wait.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I bet.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, TK, I'm super excited to talk with you for many different reasons.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love your background, your professional background.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: As my mother's actually been a cardiology nurse for gosh, 20, 25 years now.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So your background, I was like, oh, super cool.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also love a good thriller book.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm excited because I feel like it's your book, is one that both my wife and I will probably fight over to read first and share.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of other people that enjoy these type of books as well.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so TK, just again, super excited to talk with you and would love to just give you the mic for a second and just share a little bit about yourself, your career, and and and a little bit about your writing.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because from what I've read, you've always enjoyed writing, but now you've got a book coming out here in just a few short months.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so just tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Chris, for having me.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to be here.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, I have been writing a long time for as long as I can remember.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was that kid that they said, what do you want to be when you grow up?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I I'm gonna be an author.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I think at that age I was saying I'm gonna be a famous author.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very confident.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that confidence starts to go up and down as you get older.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, so I I've been writing a long time.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was a whiz at just like editing.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to edit my, you know, at the notes passing stage where we used to pass notes in class before, you know, cell phones and all of that.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I would edit my friends' notes when they passed to me.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was just always in my head.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just, I don't know, I just did it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't help it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: If I saw words spelled wrong, you know, I was in spelling bees and and all that kind of stuff, and I just loved words and, you know, reading.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned how to read at a very early age.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Also, my mom was very on me about learning how to read and I I loved it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that was my life.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, I'm gonna grow up and be an author and cool, end of the story.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, life doesn't happen.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So somewhere in my 30s, I ended up in the medical field.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that kind of happened is I let's see, I was probably in my 20s, um, maybe a little bit before that.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I had um my first daughter, I had her at a younger age.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was 21 when I had her.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my first medical job was actually the back office stuff.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like I volunteered to help move files from one medical office that was moving into another building.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, this is easy.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's filing, you know, paperwork office.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which the other kind of cool thing about that is also when I was younger, I used to actually play office.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I we had this, you know, those little keyboards, the little like, I don't know, the little tiny keyboards that used to have for kids.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my typewriter.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was either pretending to write books or I was working in my little office and I'd have my stuffed animals or my brothers and sisters.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm the oldest, so you know, I tortured them with that and made them sit in my office and play walk.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So aside from me knowing I was gonna be an offer, an offer, an author, I also knew that I really liked like, I don't know, desk office stuff, but I didn't really know what it was called then.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got in the medical field and I was doing that file stuff, I really liked it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, this is cool, you know, and it was paying more than the minimum wage, which was, we won't discuss what it was at that time, so I'm not gonna age myself.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, you know, it was it was pretty good.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I had heard that once you kind of get your foot in the door, um, medically speaking, that you're kind of set for life, basically.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a job.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did that job, and then I ended up getting hired on.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I did over the course of the next 10 years, medical office, medical records, uh, front desk, you know, medical secretary.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of stayed in that genre.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And after a while, I kind of wanted behind the scenes.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh, I want to get in on the action.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to go back to school and uh I went to school for radiology.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought at the time that ultrasound and radiology were the same thing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of, it's all imaging, but totally different, you know, degrees.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought, well, I still kind of want to learn it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a it was fun.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was fun because as a radiographer, you know, you have to be creative.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I am a very creative person.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was like I had the best of both worlds.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I get to do this, you know, I get to be in the medical field, I get to have a good job, but I also get to kind of be creative and think outside the box.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I did that for a very short amount of time before I heard about the cardiology field.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it was kind of a passing conversation.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Someone was walking by, and I'm not gonna lie, the first thing I heard was, and I don't know if I lost the connection there.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Are you are you still there?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it went away a little bit.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I Oh, okay.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I was just rambling on, and then I saw the connection was not there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're good.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, like I said, I can edit all of that all of this out where it's plugs off.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Okay, cool.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just saying that um I lost my train of thought now.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was saying that um, yeah, so the medical field.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to school for that, and then I heard about the cardiology, about cath lab actually, interventional.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I don't actually, I don't remember what it is about it when I heard it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I thought I want to do that because once I actually started training for it, I thought, have I lost my ever-loving mind?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is insane.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like these, it was the hardest thing I ever had to learn.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and the group of people that I was training under, they were like old school, like, you're gonna learn the way we learn.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like they were just out to torture me on purpose.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But luckily I had a really good director and he's like, you know, get learn what you need to learn out of this.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then he's he told me, go to another lab, you know, see about it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, I was sure after I left that job I was never stepping foot in another caf.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily I did.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I did end up once we moved to the um DMB area, and I went back in.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily I did because when I went into a new lab, I mean, the doctors were great, the staff was great, and I really started to learn at that point.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't terrified that I was gonna do something wrong.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it just became a new love.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically what was happening throughout this whole stretch of the medical career was I was still writing in the background, but it just kind of, it was like I was learning a new thing and it was a new, you know, life change, you know.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I'd had my children and then I'd gotten married, and I got divorced, and then, you know, I had another, you know, and it was all these little things.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was, you know, in school and then training for a new career.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So writing just be kind of it just kind of became a thing in the background.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was still kind of writing in my journals and and writing stories, you know, on the side, but it wasn't, it wasn't really at the top of, you know, my priority list.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got in Cat Lab, I absolutely loved and hated it at the same time.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it because I love to help people, you know, that's one thing I did love about the medical field.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I love helping people and you know, helping people feel better.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just always been a joy of mine.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that goes hand in hand with writing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: I like to entertain people, you know, mostly in the background, but I'm getting used to being a little bit more upfront.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it's kind of the best of both worlds, but it was very difficult, it was very challenging, very demanding, very stressful.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, psychologically, mentally, physically, but it's just something about it just kept me coming back.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I couldn't get enough of it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I've just recently kind of stepped away from that to do writing full-time.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a piece of me that I feel like I'm missing, but it was a good call.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I now incorporate my experience and my knowledge from the medical field and from my experience in Cath Lab into my writing.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even though my writing is, you know, I don't write like I think medical fiction, I just think that I kind of have a little piece of it in my stories, just as kind of like this is a background that I know.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the real heart behind my stories actually are based on like a lot of relationship drama and things from my past.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that's where a lot of my stories were being crafted was from that.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just became like a niche because I was in cardiology and I thought these are matters of the heart, and I worked with physical heart.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how my brand got created.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and yeah, so now that I've said all of that, and I will talk your ears off, so you'll have to stop me.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that, TK.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there's a lot I think I'm just thinking about as you're talking.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is I can only imagine how hard it is to balance everything.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember as a young kid, is when my mother went back to school, and I just remember her studying so much at night, and just like how much commitment she had to do with me and my sister, you know, two young kids.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I I can only imagine.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I I wasn't studying, but I could see how hard that was, and I can imagine you trying to figure out a time to write, you know, like you don't have time, you know.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's something you gotta put on the back burner.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious to know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got your debut novel.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if we said the title, Unveiled, which comes out, I believe, in September.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually October.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think the date, the date actually got moved a couple of times.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just for marketing purposes, we're kind of trying to market it a little bit more.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And October seemed like the better date for it to come out, um, kind of, you know, against the I forget the wording they told me, but it's kind of there's a there's a date in September where a lot of books come out.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's that October date because it's a thriller, I guess.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of people tell me different things about why it should come out in October.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of all settled on that, and that's that's kind of what happened there.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, October 6th.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I could, I could see where that's a good fall, spooky-ish kind of time to sit down and read that type of book, you know.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe maybe there's some correlation there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but TK, how long of a process?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, again, you've been writing, you've been taking notes, you've probably got all kinds of stories and things that you've gone in different directions with.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But putting this debut novel together, what was the process timeline like?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was the process of actually?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I don't know the whole process of how you get a book to a publisher and the market and all of that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're doing all this while working too.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got a lot of things you're balancing, but like go through the timeline a little bit of when did you start the story?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: How long did it take you to complete it?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then the process of actually editing it, getting it out there, getting a cover, like the total time frame of it all, what just what all did that look like?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the base of the the the I the story idea I think I've had for a while.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually had started a different story before this, and it it was it's on the shelf.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put it that way.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really liked the idea.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the characters, I kind of really wanted to, you know, I wanted to keep them, but I knew that that wasn't the right story.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I total I did a totally new story which became unveiled.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but I kind of it was it's interesting.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So long story short, I had to try to merge these characters into from two different stories.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a little confusing at first.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I confused myself, what and made it harder on myself.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: But but the start of that from when I wrote chapter one, that was October of um 2023.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I guess I probably started the outline, maybe a couple months before that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that was also the this the fall after I had gone to my first writing conference.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing about my writing is I've always kind of done it solo, like I've done it with myself.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: A very, very small amount of people have read, you know, things I've written, like close family, friends, and they're the ones that have kind of pushing me to write, to write, you know.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, you know, I'd never been to a conference.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never taken, you know, I'd taken courses like online and and you know, everything.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But when I went to this conference, that's when I started learning about genres and you know, and publishing and and you know, all these things that you have to do.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then the big thing at that time was you have to have a platform.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, platform, what that even mean?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll worry about that later.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I gosh started working with a mentor, and that was the spring of 20.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, was it spring of 22?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I got married in 22.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it was probably a little bit after that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she really started working with me on crafting this novel.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And at first I was really excited.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was working on it, and I think I finished the first draft in eight months because I finished it in June.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was so excited, I thought, done.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was unreal.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I even put the end, even though I know it's gonna take it out later, but I have to put the end to tell everybody, I finished my first book.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I've been telling people I was writing for years.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna write a book.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And even now, when I had to push my date, I said, you know, people are gonna be like, Yeah, okay, listen, I'm sure you're writing a book.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you there's always some reason why it's not out yet.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Give it to me when it's done.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that that started.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So then this October, with it being published or releasing in October, that would be a total of three years from the start of the chapter to finish.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the first draft was written in eight months.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the reason after that, it kind of took some time is I wasn't really full on writing.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't really working on the edits and everything because at the time I was working full-time, and it was very difficult to kind of stay focused with that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had just gotten married the year before, and you know, two years before that was the pandemic, and we had a blended household.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he had two kids.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had two kids.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we had two A personality boys.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so all that chat of your imagination of how that went.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's all these things going on in our lives.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of, it just kind of made writing kind of seem like it was getting pushed, and it just kept, you know, it was just on my heart so much.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just became like people say, like, there's this fire inside of you, and it was getting stronger and stronger.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, me and my husband talked about it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, well, what if what if you kind of lessen your work hours?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I was actually lucky enough to go down to part-time work.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But even still in CAF lab, even part-time is a little crazy.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was still call, you know, I had to be on call, and the lab I worked in was an hour away.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a commute.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if I was on call, I had to stay over there.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I just tried to kind of incorporate my writing into those break times, you know, if I was waiting to, you know, get called in, or sometimes I would take my notebook to work and just kind of jot notes in there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so I was still feeling like I was doing something.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, it that whole editing process, I feel like it kind of took a little bit of time.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And also I learned a lot about writing while I was crafting this novel.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And things I thought, I've been writing my whole life.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got this.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not as easy.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you've been writing your whole life.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Writing a novel is hard.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there were so many times throughout it, you know, as I was doing those edits where I was like, okay, I really thought high more highly of myself than, you know, I didn't know this is what I was getting into.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I second guessed myself.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, maybe I'm not supposed to be a writer, you know, maybe that's why I went to the medical field.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of self-doubt, a lot of, you know, almost quitting moments.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But luckily, I had great support from my family and, you know, close people.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And my mentor, um, she was, she's an amazing part of my life.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: She kept pushing me and she said, no, you have a good story, you have a, you know, you could have a good premise and you just gotta stay on it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she always was encouraging me every time I felt like this is not it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe I'll just write in my, I'll just write my little short stories and continue on in my career.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so eventually uh I was able to finish it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And at the and then once I finished it, I tr I was pitching it at a conference and I thought, okay, well, now this is another nerve-wracking thing that's you know, I have to do.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have to make someone else think that the story's good enough.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, you know, I the self-doubts are there.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, are they gonna like it?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna read it?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna think this is a horrible premise?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I pitched it to an agent, and she really liked, you know, what she was seeing, and she said, you know, send it to me.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you never hear back from these people right away.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always fun.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the waiting game.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, long story short, I'm trying to sum it up.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: But once I did hear back from her, you know, I it was actually not bad.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't bad news, but I was a little confused because she said that it was, you know, she liked this, you know, where it was going because you send them like your first three chapters and your whole proposal.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she was uh she was interested.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: However, she said that the publishers that she works with require a larger platform.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so my platform wasn't high enough.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you gotta be kidding me.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like at first, I thought, well, at first I didn't know.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to call my mentor, and I'm like, is this good news?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it bad news?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, I'm expecting like a yes or a no, you know, like black and white.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just let me know.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So she said, this is actually good news because it means, you know, she's interested.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just we have to build your numbers.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was actually a little frustrated with that because growing up, you know, I was always trying to not have to fit into that popularity group and that, you know, that group of people that you always have to fit in.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I never understood why do I have to dress this way?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I have to wear my hair this way to fit into this group of people?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I never understood that.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always kind of trying to, you know, do my own thing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, you get to high school and college, and then I I felt like I was kind of starting to conform a little bit.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like this this race to always just fit in.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it just became like a part of life that was so unfortunate.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I struggled with that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now here I am, 40 something years old, and I'm way past all of that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now I gotta win a popularity contest again.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is this happening to me?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was really devastated all over again.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know what, this is just not for me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the just at that point, I thought maybe I'll just self-publish the book and we'll just see where it goes.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna keep writing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so shortly after that, it turned out that uh my mentor actually started, she ended up starting her publishing company shortly in that time frame.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know until after the fact.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then the timing, like the timing just kind of laid out to where ended up where she, where she offered to publish my book.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at first, because she asked me later, she said, You didn't really seem excited.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I was, I was just in shock because I went from, well, you know, this is probably not gonna happen right now, maybe someday, maybe whatever, to I'm getting published.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there's that little moment of surreal, like, like my book's gonna get I'm gonna get published.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been trying to do this for a long time and it's happening now.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then everything kind of started happening really fast.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then now I have a deadline.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really had set deadlines.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've had deadlines, but not really.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and so then I had to do the next round of edits, and she sent me this massive, like, I don't even know how many pages of things that needed to be fixed in the story, and the panic set in, and I don't know.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I started learning about deadlines and all of that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then I, you know, then of course I was like, maybe we need more time, maybe we need more time.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so my my uh date to get published did get pushed a couple of times because I thought, no, no, no, it's not ready yet.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not ready yet.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually I had to stop editing and say, okay, if I keep touching this book, it's you know, you can over-edit, you know, you can over, you know, do too much.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was just uh the end of last year.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like the end of probably the mid to the end of last year was just kind of a whirlwind of unexpectedness.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you would have told me two years ago I was getting published this year, I mean, I would have liked to believe it because I tried to think positively, but you know, it was still a big surprise, even still.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um I'm I'm always highly impressed with people who can write a good fiction novel because I think it's I'm not very creative.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I there's no way I could write a fiction novel.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: It would take me, I don't know how long.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I it's so much easier for me to put facts together and look at statistics and you know, a good self help book or motivational, you know, you can you can kind of get some material together and and put that together rather easily, I feel like, you know, structure a certain way, whatever.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: But to create a story in your head and get to 300 plus pages out of a good uh you know line of that we can follow and be enjoyed and and have a mystery to it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just find that so impressive.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And probably again just because I'm not that creative.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, how did they come up with this?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where did these characters come from?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think it's really cool that you used your real life, you know, some of the experience of medical field and relationships, and you kind of incorporated that and it kind of sparked your idea.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm always curious to ask the timeline question because I've talked with some authors and like the way you write, or maybe something you put in the book, it could be because of something that's like happening in your life at that time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, like month one to month eight, like, was there any difference because of like just again external influences that were happening in your life and maybe changed the way or the direction of your book?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I always find that fascinating.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always, you kind of pulled the curtain back a little bit, and a couple of other authors have too on just the process of publishing a book.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to some author the other day, and it kind of frustrating because if you are a good writer, you sometimes don't get your work published because of the platform issue.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you gotta have a minimum of this, and it's like, well, what if the book sucks?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't matter.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: As long as they can like sell the book because of the platform, that's what their motive is, and it doesn't seem like they're really looking for good writers or people that they could promote and their platform will grow because of the story's good enough, or you know, the book's good enough.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like could it be a movie?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't look further than the numbers, but it just seems like those companies, and I get it, they have to be able to know they can sell and market and and and cover themselves too.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it is kind of a unique thing to learn about because I don't think people know that enough.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: How hard it is to get a book published, and they're just like, oh, you just send in the transcript, work through it, and you can you can pay to publish anymore.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: A little more difficult than that, or a lot more difficult, actually.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I that was definitely, and I laugh because sometimes I'm like, don't these people know that most writers are introverts?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we don't want to be on camera online, so a bunch of people can look at our story, at least that's how I think.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even really think I'm a full introvert, and I still have issues with, you know, being on camera and or people listening to the things I have to say, you know, and of course I think now I'm learning all writers, if not most, if not all, have that sense of, you know, what if no one likes my story?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like I've made this huge platform and all these marketing and I've hyped these people up, and then what at the end of the day?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, what is this?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just stay in the background?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they don't like it, they don't really know who I am after that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I get it.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: But hopefully, you know, the the book comes out and it and it just catches like fire and everyone loves it, and it leads to, you know, another book opportunity, and it's all part of the process, you know.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, the things you love to do, there's always those little pieces to it that are not enjoyable as well, you know.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I think it's funny even when we started this conversation, how you were talking about just how in tune you were with editing from a young age, just little things.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Most most authors I talk to, they're like, I hate editing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's the worst part of the process.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stand it, I'm not good at it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of funny that you let off with, man, I was editing my friend's notes before you know they reached the person they're supposed to go to, fix the word, you know.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was very fascinating too, because I've never heard anyone talk about editing that way.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: My issue is research.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do not like research.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why though, because I'm the first one.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I don't understand something, even outside my writing, or if I want to know something, I'm online like crazy.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know what it is about like when I'm writing a story and I have to stop and now I have to research this.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of annoying to me.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, once I get going with it, I I get it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: But but um, and it can be a little fun.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think writ writing is kind of like when I learned uh or writing a novel is kind of like when I was learning Cath lab.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I loved it and it's it was in, you know, fulfilling, but also really stressful at times and and just like hard, like really hard.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, halfway through, you know, a novel.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I know um, you know, an author you probably know Jerry Jenkins, you know, who wrote um the end time series, you know, and I I listened to a lot of his, you know, talks that he does, and he talks about like the marathon in the middle.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when I got to the middle of it, I'm like, oh, I get it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is the part where you're like, okay, it's too late to turn back, but I have to get forward, you know, and especially with, you know, this being a psychological thriller, you know, you have the ideas.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like ideas is never my problem.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's getting them down on paper and making them make sense and then wrapping it up at the end.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, let me throw in another plot twist.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end, it's like, I have to like solve all this now.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's yeah, that was a challenge, but it was also fun at the same time.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: TK, just a couple more questions for you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to know.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this book, you know, the main purpose is to entertain, you know, have people get get into it, love it, get, you know, feel the characters, feel the environment, and go down the the story that you're putting out there.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what if, or I guess, what is the message you hope people take away from from your book?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is there, is there any sort of underlying things you hope people pick up on and that, you know, it goes a little bit deeper than just being entertained?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is there some messages you hope that that sits with people as they read your book?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually there is, and it's actually a theme that I noticed across a lot of my writing.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I write a lot about a relationship, you know, things that happen between, you know, people and relationships and, you know, not necessarily good things from like past, you know, past relationship trauma, I guess is a good way to put it, and and moving on.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, and this comes from even my personal experience of dealing with this and and being in, you know, bad or not so great, you know, relationships.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I always had this what-if theory, you know, like what if this had gone differently or, you know, what if I'd said this or acted that way?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I, that's what starts the ideas of my stories.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, when I was trying to figure out the why of why I write this way, I realized, you know, this is kind of a sense of therapy, of closure.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I write that a lot of these stories and even unveiled, there's a message of kind of forgiveness and grace and kind of being able to confront your past or being able to learn from the things that you've gone through and just get getting through them, getting to the other side, forgiving the unforgivable, being able to forgive others, even for yourself, not necessarily for them, but for yourself so that you can heal and move on.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that seems to be the theme of a lot of my story.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking maybe there's therapy in it for myself.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully, you know, others can read that as well.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the psychological part of it's like, well, how far, how far is someone willing to go, you know, to, or what lines do they not want to cross?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a hint of the next book, by the way.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so they, you know, this particular book is more about forgiveness and, you know, being able to understand that everybody has a reason for the things they do, and it doesn't always make people bad people.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, you know, everybody has their own past, everybody has their own present, and everyone at some point thinks that what they're doing, what their actions are is right for them.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So just getting through that and and you know, finding the grace to move on is is basically.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: TK, final question for you.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I ask everyone this question that comes on the podcast is just a books for guys, recommendation type of question.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always curious to know what people are interested in reading or what, you know, some of their books that they've loved to read personally.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so my question to you is what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And what is a book or two that you love to recommend to other people?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I have read so many books, honestly, but there was one particular book that stuck out to me when I was starting my writing journey, and that was Stephen King's book on writing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't read Stephen King.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I've watched the movies, but I don't typically read his books, and I don't even remember how I got a hold of that book, but I was so in thought and I was so I think I read it twice.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: The way he talks about how just writing from, you know, not necessarily sticking to those cliches and your everyday things.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and he breaks it down so simplistically to where you feel like, yeah, I can do this, I can write.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one book that I recommend.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the opposite side of that spectrum would be Cecil Murphy, who also writes a book on writing, and he's more talking about your why, you know, why do you write the way you write?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, writing from the heart and finding out who you truly are as a writer.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so those two books have been really instrumental.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they were at two totally times of my life that I read them.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, but they've both been instrumental.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I've there's so many more, but those are the, you know, the two off the top of my head.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of writers and authors who watch and listen to this.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are great recommendations.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure maybe someone else has read or or they are interested in reading because of that recommendation.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but TK, this has been awesome.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we're very proud to sponsor your book or or promote it and show it out there for people.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait until it's released because it's definitely one that I'm gonna read.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like my wife's gonna that love this style of book.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I know they're gonna want to pick this up.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like you've got other works in the progress in progress already, which is awesome.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when those books come out, we'll spotlight those too.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: But TK, just keep keep doing what you're doing.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can like see, I can see the passion in it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I see the excitement.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: You've got it rolling, and I just can't wait to see everything that you accomplish now with this first novel coming out.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't wait to see everything that uh the success that happens from it and just the continued work you put out.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Super excited about that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much, Chris.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate being here.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your endorsement, and I can't wait to see what happens as well.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we appreciate it, TK.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.