Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Death Becomes Her (1992) - Robert Zemeckis | Houselights #246

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Death Becomes Her (1992) - Robert Zemeckis | Houselights #246 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
0:19
Speaker 2: Welcome back to House of Zamechas, the latest exploratory delve
0:23
Speaker 2: into the works of a director, specifically Robert Zamechis and
0:28
Speaker 2: his work of the nineteen nineties. Here on house Lights,
0:32
Speaker 2: I am one of your humble hosts, the gifted storyteller
0:36
Speaker 2: John Mills, and with me is beautiful Angenoux and star
0:40
Speaker 2: of the stage Darren Moser, recently back from the dead,
0:45
Speaker 2: but a little worse for wear. Darren, we are missing
0:49
Speaker 2: your nemesis this time around, but I think we'll manage
0:52
Speaker 2: to carry on. The show must go on. As one
0:55
Speaker 2: of the messages of death becomes her appears to be
0:59
Speaker 2: oh exactly.
1:00
Speaker 3: I mean, I scaled the fence of his private property
1:03
Speaker 3: and that's the last I ever saw Tristan. Nothing bad
1:08
Speaker 3: could have happened.
1:09
Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all, and not one
1:12
Speaker 2: event in this film could have been prosecutable, And what
1:16
Speaker 2: film could we possibly be talking about? But of course
1:19
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two's death becomes her, the quietly trailblazing affects
1:24
Speaker 2: powerhouse that led.
1:26
Speaker 4: The way for digital filmmaking.
1:28
Speaker 2: For years to come. A little foretaste of what was
1:32
Speaker 2: to come. A year later with Jurassic Park, A lot
1:35
Speaker 2: of it trail blazed here in terms of match move
1:38
Speaker 2: and digital replacement and all of those sorts of things.
1:42
Speaker 2: So Darren, this, you know, obviously we always make jokes
1:46
Speaker 2: about how I'm the old man. Obviously I saw this
1:49
Speaker 2: in the movie theater. What was your first encounter with
1:52
Speaker 2: Death Becomes Her?
1:53
Speaker 3: This is actually one I had not caught before, so
1:56
Speaker 3: this was my first time watching it. I mean I
1:59
Speaker 3: had I've seen tiny clips on like special effects reels,
2:05
Speaker 3: like where they would talk about, you know, the turning point,
2:08
Speaker 3: and they'd always list like this one amongst them, and
2:11
Speaker 3: rightfully so for some of its amazing digital effects. I
2:15
Speaker 3: think the moment when she sits through the spear on
2:19
Speaker 3: the couch is particularly interesting. But from the get go,
2:26
Speaker 3: though it's a smart effects movie, there's a lot of
2:29
Speaker 3: makeup involved. There's only a handful of special shots really,
2:34
Speaker 3: and they pick and choose exactly where they're going to
2:38
Speaker 3: use the heavy hitting work.
2:41
Speaker 2: I like that you point that out, because this really
2:44
Speaker 2: is I do want to open the whole conversation talking
2:47
Speaker 2: about the effects work, because I think that it's very
2:50
Speaker 2: easy for people to continually overlook this film in terms
2:55
Speaker 2: of what it did. And I think it's important to
2:59
Speaker 2: couch this in the conversation that we were having during
3:02
Speaker 2: Back to the Future Part three last week, where we
3:05
Speaker 2: were talking specifically about that Zamechis has always been sort
3:08
Speaker 2: of a quiet innovator and pusher of the envelope. He's
3:12
Speaker 2: willing to jump in. Roger Rabbit had like virtually unprecedented
3:18
Speaker 2: use of the cartoon and live action matching. Like it
3:21
Speaker 2: was sort of a full realization of the filmmaking future
3:27
Speaker 2: that like Walt Disney saw as a possibility. And I
3:31
Speaker 2: think that, you know, we talked about the Back of
3:34
Speaker 2: the Future films and then you get to this one.
3:37
Speaker 2: And this is where I'm going with this is do
3:40
Speaker 2: you think that this is a movie which could not
3:43
Speaker 2: have existed without digital effects or does this come across
3:48
Speaker 2: to you as a film that exists only as a
3:50
Speaker 2: way to justify the effects costs.
3:52
Speaker 3: I'll say, I think you could have made this film
3:56
Speaker 3: sooner in the era of effects. You just would have
3:59
Speaker 3: had to choose slightly different ailments for the main characters.
4:05
Speaker 3: I don't think you could have done the full head replacement,
4:08
Speaker 3: the flipping of the head back. I think you probably
4:12
Speaker 3: could have gotten through with the hole in the chest,
4:15
Speaker 3: but you would have had to maybe have one of
4:17
Speaker 3: them lose an arm or something something more practical makeup
4:23
Speaker 3: ish as opposed to I think that's what shocked everyone
4:27
Speaker 3: with this one, was the head replacements and things like
4:32
Speaker 3: that that had never been done before. Convincingly. Does it
4:36
Speaker 3: show a little bit of its age, you know, many
4:39
Speaker 3: decades later, Yes it does, but not enough. If you
4:43
Speaker 3: squint at it sideways a little, like you get the
4:45
Speaker 3: intent of the story. It's not impacted by that. And
4:50
Speaker 3: like you said, this is a year before Jurassic Park,
4:52
Speaker 3: it's a year after Terminator two. So right in that
4:56
Speaker 3: spot where CG is about to explode.
5:00
Speaker 2: I think that the movie itself is not as much
5:03
Speaker 2: fun without the digital effects. I think that there's a
5:06
Speaker 2: definite wow factor that goes back to when it first
5:09
Speaker 2: came out and holds up today because to this day,
5:13
Speaker 2: I know logically how they did certain things. I've seen,
5:18
Speaker 2: you know, the behind the scenes stuff through the years.
5:21
Speaker 2: But you mentioned it earlier, when she has the whole
5:24
Speaker 2: blast in her Goldie Hawn does and she sits back
5:28
Speaker 2: and it just seamlessly goes through so that the handle
5:34
Speaker 2: is sticking through her and in the hole in the
5:37
Speaker 2: center of her there's I mean, it's an incredible effect
5:41
Speaker 2: that holds up now, you know. Yes, are there effects
5:44
Speaker 2: like you're saying that don't hold up as well right now? Absolutely,
5:48
Speaker 2: But that one in particular, that's still a wow factor.
5:52
Speaker 2: That's still one that I look at and I say,
5:54
Speaker 2: how did they manage this? Like it doesn't even make
5:56
Speaker 2: sense to me what they did. So that's a lot
6:00
Speaker 2: of fun. But let's roll it back here to the
6:03
Speaker 2: real why of the story with this wow factor? Do
6:07
Speaker 2: you see a movie that has enough punch, enough meaning
6:12
Speaker 2: and enough purpose that is there enough story here for you?
6:15
Speaker 2: Is there enough meat on the bone?
6:17
Speaker 1: Yeah?
6:17
Speaker 3: I mean it's interesting again this being a first watch,
6:20
Speaker 3: because I have no idea what the plot is. All
6:23
Speaker 3: I really had seen was the scene where they're fighting
6:27
Speaker 3: and they're you know, sticking the hole through each other
6:30
Speaker 3: and knocking her head back Like that's it. So I
6:32
Speaker 3: don't know how we get there or or what. So
6:36
Speaker 3: it starts and then we have this like seven year
6:39
Speaker 3: later time jump and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Like okay, okay,
6:44
Speaker 3: I guess they didn't get married. Oh they did get married, okay,
6:48
Speaker 3: and then we jump again, and I'm just like, what
6:50
Speaker 3: what is going It almost gave me Tim Burtony vibes,
6:55
Speaker 3: where that first act is very kind of like your
6:59
Speaker 3: Edwards says their hand or you know, maybe Corpse Bride,
7:03
Speaker 3: where like the beginning is almost a prologue, and then
7:06
Speaker 3: we kind of jump to the meat of the action,
7:09
Speaker 3: you know, because we don't see anything of their relationship
7:12
Speaker 3: through all these years of marriage. All we see is
7:16
Speaker 3: the couple of days before the inciting incident, which is
7:19
Speaker 3: you know, meeting and the and the potion and all
7:21
Speaker 3: of that. And so with that, a lot of effort
7:24
Speaker 3: is put on that early scene of convincing us that
7:29
Speaker 3: these are not happily married people. They hate each other,
7:33
Speaker 3: They loathe each other. The spark has gone away, and
7:39
Speaker 3: so it not that it doesn't work, but it's a
7:42
Speaker 3: choice because we don't we don't even get a montage.
7:45
Speaker 3: It's just like nope, Q card, We're almost a decade
7:49
Speaker 3: in the future. Yeah.
7:50
Speaker 2: I think that that's a very fair observation. I think
7:53
Speaker 2: that the latter two thirds of the movie is fun.
7:57
Speaker 2: And what I get a sense from Zamechas is he
8:00
Speaker 2: wants to get to the fun. He doesn't want to
8:04
Speaker 2: take time to get there, and with how I mean,
8:07
Speaker 2: with how long the film is, I can't blame him.
8:10
Speaker 2: I almost wonder if there's stuff that's missing from that
8:14
Speaker 2: that opening act, as it were, that maybe was you know,
8:20
Speaker 2: cut for the sake strictly for the sake of time.
8:23
Speaker 2: Like I think we come from Back to the Future
8:25
Speaker 2: Part three and we see Funds zamechas Zamecchis is just
8:28
Speaker 2: having a blast over there, and then we come over
8:31
Speaker 2: here to death becomes her and that setup. It's there
8:36
Speaker 2: because it has to be there, but he is just
8:38
Speaker 2: trying to race along to the fun.
8:41
Speaker 3: And part of that fun.
8:42
Speaker 2: Of course, is Bruce Willis, who went from comedic TV
8:46
Speaker 2: actor to big budget action star and now is coming
8:50
Speaker 2: back to comedic actor. I got to ask you, since
8:53
Speaker 2: this is your first time watching it, is it disorienting
8:56
Speaker 2: at this point to see Bruce Willis embrace his comic
8:59
Speaker 2: time and his comic nature.
9:01
Speaker 3: Ah, it was a little because when I hear that voice,
9:06
Speaker 3: I think of like John McClain, Like I don't hear
9:10
Speaker 3: another care like when you hear Harrison Ford. It's hard
9:13
Speaker 3: to detach him from certain roles but really, in a way,
9:19
Speaker 3: he's like a supporting actor in this, Like he doesn't
9:22
Speaker 3: have a lot to really do in this movie. I
9:26
Speaker 3: mean not that he isn't doing things, but it is
9:29
Speaker 3: such a vehicle, you know, for the our two leading ladies.
9:34
Speaker 3: They're they're selling the whole thing. They're selling the joke
9:38
Speaker 3: of the woman after thirty. You know, Hollywood's against them.
9:43
Speaker 3: What if you found this magic potion? So I didn't
9:46
Speaker 3: have a trouble at being Bruce Willis, But as we've
9:50
Speaker 3: said sometimes here in house Lights, I could see this
9:53
Speaker 3: almost going to someone else and it not really changing
9:57
Speaker 3: the movie. I don't think it had to be Bruce Willis,
10:00
Speaker 3: not that he did a bad job, but I don't
10:03
Speaker 3: think it's that kind of a role that it had
10:05
Speaker 3: to be him.
10:05
Speaker 2: I agree it didn't necessarily have to be him, but
10:09
Speaker 2: I regard him as like the secret weapon of the movie.
10:12
Speaker 2: I don't think this works particularly well without him. I
10:15
Speaker 2: think if you don't have Bruce Willis, you have a
10:18
Speaker 2: substantially different movie that just doesn't work as well. I
10:22
Speaker 2: think that Hawn and Streep are having fun, but if anything,
10:27
Speaker 2: I would say I get the sense that they're constrained
10:30
Speaker 2: by the effects work. These are two actresses who are
10:36
Speaker 2: known for inhabiting their roles, Streep even more so than
10:40
Speaker 2: anybody else in the cast. But this is a role
10:43
Speaker 2: more about getting that technical timing right. You have to
10:47
Speaker 2: hit a specific mark because we've got the match move
10:50
Speaker 2: going on. If anything, in my brain, Willis is integral
10:56
Speaker 2: to this working, And I think that Hawn shines in
11:00
Speaker 2: this and Streep is the one that I think is
11:04
Speaker 2: the rotating cast member for me. Interesting, Okay, I think
11:10
Speaker 2: if anything, the choice that obviously she and Samecas came
11:14
Speaker 2: to where she's a bit more zany.
11:17
Speaker 4: As things go on.
11:18
Speaker 2: It's almost as if I have a sense of her
11:21
Speaker 2: not really finding the character, because it's almost like she
11:25
Speaker 2: gains this momentum where she becomes more and more wacky
11:31
Speaker 2: as it goes forward, and we sort of lose that
11:34
Speaker 2: diabolical he earlier on in the movie.
11:38
Speaker 4: Am I making sense?
11:39
Speaker 3: Yeah? They kind of both take turns being diabolical, because
11:45
Speaker 3: you're right, she is more diabolical in the beginning where
11:48
Speaker 3: she's getting her way and you know, stealing him away,
11:53
Speaker 3: but then Han has it later where she's like setting
11:57
Speaker 3: up her death and this is how we're going to
11:59
Speaker 3: kill her and breaking into their house and all of that.
12:03
Speaker 3: So they do trade places and then the kind of
12:06
Speaker 3: the joke is that they're on the same page at
12:08
Speaker 3: the end. But as a whole, with this movie's premise, John,
12:14
Speaker 3: do you feel like this is a story that has
12:18
Speaker 3: enough meat to be a movie or does it feel
12:22
Speaker 3: like the joke you tell at a stand up and
12:25
Speaker 3: then they stretched it to ninety minutes or or one
12:28
Speaker 3: hundred whatever this was.
12:29
Speaker 2: I'll answer by saying that I think it's a great concept,
12:33
Speaker 2: but I think that you feel every single one of
12:37
Speaker 2: these hundred and four minutes by the end of it.
12:40
Speaker 2: And I think that that is a large part because
12:45
Speaker 2: in his race to get to the fun stuff, Zamechis
12:49
Speaker 2: never gives us the opportunity to care about any of
12:52
Speaker 2: these characters. Eventually, by the end, I care about Willis.
12:56
Speaker 2: That's why I defend his he he's.
12:58
Speaker 3: The only start with the character. Are not meant to
13:01
Speaker 3: be sympathetic with the other two.
13:03
Speaker 2: Well, I don't care what happens to them at all. Yeah,
13:07
Speaker 2: Like I don't even want their just desserts. They're just
13:10
Speaker 2: set pieces to me by the end, which is not
13:13
Speaker 2: the fault of Hawn and streep. It's the fault of
13:16
Speaker 2: the film. It's the fault of I think that's a
13:19
Speaker 2: good way that you put it, where the joke takes too.
13:22
Speaker 4: Long to get to the punchline.
13:24
Speaker 2: I agree that this could have been probably ninety four minutes,
13:29
Speaker 2: ninety two minutes even, and we would have been better off.
13:32
Speaker 2: I think there's but where could those ten minutes have
13:35
Speaker 2: come out of?
13:35
Speaker 3: Is the problem? Well? And with the joke, it feels
13:38
Speaker 3: like the first joke is, oh, you know, if you
13:41
Speaker 3: could be young again and have this elix sir and
13:44
Speaker 3: all that, and then that joke is kind of done
13:47
Speaker 3: and they need a second joke to keep it going.
13:50
Speaker 3: And that second joke is where they've done a lot
13:52
Speaker 3: of setup to get you. There is oh, if you're dead,
13:55
Speaker 3: because you're basically dead but immortal. What if we've manipulated
13:59
Speaker 3: his character to be a mortician painter? Like what luck
14:05
Speaker 3: that this exact role is what you need, you know,
14:08
Speaker 3: not a plastic surgeon, but a mortician. And that's the
14:11
Speaker 3: second joke of now we have to convince him to
14:14
Speaker 3: keep it going.
14:16
Speaker 2: I would offer that probably the script stage is where
14:19
Speaker 2: this could have been saved, in the fact that they
14:24
Speaker 2: could have streamlined that opening so that we didn't go
14:28
Speaker 2: with Goldie Hawn to being in the asylum, Like that's
14:32
Speaker 2: the part that takes too long. That's I think the
14:35
Speaker 2: disorienting thing you're getting at where we're doing this thing.
14:38
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, okay, this is where this is, and
14:41
Speaker 2: then it has that seven years later and she's a
14:44
Speaker 2: young and vibrant Goldie Hawn again, and it's like it didn't.
14:47
Speaker 2: It doesn't spur curiosity in me so much as inevitability.
14:54
Speaker 2: Maybe that's just because the gag had been given away
14:57
Speaker 2: in the trailers or something. It feels almost like they
15:00
Speaker 2: could have and should have had a different path for
15:03
Speaker 2: these characters to get to that point.
15:05
Speaker 3: Well, And I was just pulling up the poster because
15:09
Speaker 3: the poster is literally Streep's head is on backwards and
15:13
Speaker 3: he's holding the candelabra through the whole in Goldie han
15:17
Speaker 3: so it's already kind of tipping its head. It's being
15:21
Speaker 3: subtle about it, like you don't exactly know what's going on,
15:24
Speaker 3: but something is wrong with this picture. And I mean
15:29
Speaker 3: I've even was reading about in the production where they
15:33
Speaker 3: cut a lot from the end, where there was even
15:36
Speaker 3: an or they reshot the end where initially it was
15:40
Speaker 3: more upbeat, and there was you know, he meets someone
15:47
Speaker 3: and they fake his death and then they're living happily
15:51
Speaker 3: and then they catch up with the girls later. But
15:54
Speaker 3: it apparently wasn't the right tone for the ending. I
15:58
Speaker 3: like the ending we got where you know there it's
16:01
Speaker 3: the come uppance ending where they you don't get to
16:04
Speaker 3: see any of his life, but we know it was great,
16:06
Speaker 3: just like we didn't see any of his marriage, but
16:08
Speaker 3: we know it was terrible. It's kind of the same playbook.
16:12
Speaker 3: And then at the end they're just stuck with each
16:15
Speaker 3: other like they made the wrong choice.
16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know there were You're right that
16:23
Speaker 2: they they redid the ending in post and there's actually
16:29
Speaker 2: the whole continuation of his story where he meets and
16:34
Speaker 2: falls in love with a bartender played by Tracy Ullman
16:37
Speaker 2: no Less who helps him fake his death, and then
16:40
Speaker 2: Hawn and Streep encounter them as they're living as a
16:43
Speaker 2: retired couple.
16:44
Speaker 4: Almond winds up getting cut.
16:46
Speaker 2: That entire thing gets cut because test audiences didn't react
16:49
Speaker 2: well to it, so that means the movie was even longer.
16:52
Speaker 2: Do you think that that longer ending with more payoff
16:58
Speaker 2: for Willis would that have worked for? I mean, I'm
17:00
Speaker 2: personally in love with the ending that we have because
17:02
Speaker 2: I think that it was incredibly clever, you know, for
17:05
Speaker 2: what it was.
17:06
Speaker 3: I think it was the wedding. The ending we got
17:09
Speaker 3: was was clever and the fact that, I mean, what
17:12
Speaker 3: do they say, once you have the climax of the movie,
17:14
Speaker 3: you want to end the movie as fast as possible,
17:16
Speaker 3: And the climax is him choosing to not drink the
17:19
Speaker 3: serum and falling and miraculously surviving. And so we basically
17:24
Speaker 3: jump cut to forty years later, whatever number it was,
17:28
Speaker 3: and it's really one scene. That ending is almost a
17:32
Speaker 3: coda of yeah, now they're all together, and I mean,
17:38
Speaker 3: it's again. Now it's almost running gag territory, like the
17:43
Speaker 3: oh you you're you should have brought the right paint
17:46
Speaker 3: and oh, your face is coming off, and then they
17:48
Speaker 3: fall down the stairs and I guess they love that
17:51
Speaker 3: tipping down the stairs gag. But and then they fall
17:53
Speaker 3: apart kind of like mannequins, which is interesting. But yeah,
17:59
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it does. It works. It's not terrible,
18:02
Speaker 3: but we're kind of like, but up up, but up
18:05
Speaker 3: up and then the move's over. You know, it's just yeah, well.
18:08
Speaker 2: It's a full embrace of the absurdity. I mean, it's
18:11
Speaker 2: very obvious. And this might be what works to the
18:14
Speaker 2: detriment of the movie overall, is it's very obvious that
18:18
Speaker 2: Zamechis is not invested in the central gag the way
18:24
Speaker 2: he was with Back to the Future. Back to the Future,
18:28
Speaker 2: you get the sense of a director, especially with that
18:30
Speaker 2: train sequence that we praised last week, who really wants
18:34
Speaker 2: to find a way to make this work and be believable.
18:37
Speaker 2: And I think that there's no effort to make this believable,
18:41
Speaker 2: and that's why you have when they do the alternate ending,
18:44
Speaker 2: they fall apart like puzzle pieces, and then it'says like, yeah,
18:47
Speaker 2: it's just it's a gag, and it's.
18:50
Speaker 3: Like you're not supposed to think too hard about how
18:53
Speaker 3: are they surviving. It's just like doesn't matter. Just that's
18:55
Speaker 3: the joke that they're suck with each other and they
18:59
Speaker 3: just have to figure it out.
19:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that, I mean, them falling apart
19:06
Speaker 2: like that, I think is the bridge too far?
19:07
Speaker 3: Maybe.
19:08
Speaker 2: I think that if you have that funeral ending and
19:12
Speaker 2: they're disrespectful and they go off, and then maybe somebody's like, hey,
19:17
Speaker 2: you're being you know, they're walking out and somebody's like, hey,
19:19
Speaker 2: you're being rude, and one of them turns around, you
19:21
Speaker 2: see that, Like somebody's missing a nose and somebody's got like,
19:24
Speaker 2: you know, a flap where their tongue should be or
19:28
Speaker 2: something like that, or something like staple together, and then
19:31
Speaker 2: somebody's like ah, and then they run off to continue
19:35
Speaker 2: their their secret existence. I think that winds up probably
19:39
Speaker 2: playing better than the shattering, you know, because that you know,
19:43
Speaker 2: to go back we were talking about Back to the
19:45
Speaker 2: Future part three, a lot of sins are forgiven with
19:47
Speaker 2: a really strong ending, and maybe they're just painted into
19:51
Speaker 2: a corner here.
19:53
Speaker 3: Overall, it's an okay story, but we've talked about the joke,
19:57
Speaker 3: you know, the premise joke, and it is is very
20:00
Speaker 3: one note, like there is no depth here. We're we're
20:04
Speaker 3: never meant to k not care that's the wrong word.
20:07
Speaker 3: We're never meant to root for the women, like yeah,
20:12
Speaker 3: really ever, I mean maybe a tiny bit with Goldie
20:15
Speaker 3: Hans's character at the beginning because of how she's being treated,
20:18
Speaker 3: but for like half a second, but the vast majority
20:22
Speaker 3: of time we are not on their side. They are
20:25
Speaker 3: making terrible choices and are very selfish and narcissistic. So
20:31
Speaker 3: we're it's just a come up in this movie where
20:33
Speaker 3: we're watching them waiting for the shoe to drop or
20:37
Speaker 3: the you know, the doctor to drop. But yeah, let's
20:41
Speaker 3: talk about the again, the jokes. This is obviously a comedy,
20:46
Speaker 3: the scene where they're in the mansion and it's the
20:49
Speaker 3: client party, and obviously I feel like I needed to
20:54
Speaker 3: kind of brush up on my who's who of the
20:57
Speaker 3: early nineties because there were probably more people we were
20:59
Speaker 3: meant to recognize maybe.
21:01
Speaker 4: Watching Oh, there were plenty of people I recognize.
21:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, Elvis it was the biggest joke, but.
21:09
Speaker 2: There are a few others for this young man. The
21:12
Speaker 2: best joke was Jim Morrison asking him if he was
21:15
Speaker 2: going to get out of the pool right right, Especially
21:18
Speaker 2: back in ninety two, I was like.
21:20
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Jim Morrison. Nowadays, that'd be oh, what
21:24
Speaker 3: was it, like, ant man, Paul Rudd.
21:28
Speaker 2: That would be a great gag. Yeah, you're absolutely right,
21:30
Speaker 2: that would be the perfect gag. Is Paul Rudd is
21:33
Speaker 2: just at the party? Rights, No, but like getting chastised
21:38
Speaker 2: for like having a career is like, come on, Paul.
21:41
Speaker 3: Public facing the fact that's our aging is starting to
21:44
Speaker 3: be noticed.
21:45
Speaker 2: That somebody's movies need to be flops, you know, something
21:49
Speaker 2: like that to get him out of the limelight. But
21:53
Speaker 2: what's fascinating is this is only two years after Back
21:55
Speaker 2: to the Future Part three comes out, So he goes
21:58
Speaker 2: right into this and I don't understand the push except
22:05
Speaker 2: maybe to keep the band together, as it were, because
22:08
Speaker 2: Dean Kundy follows him here. Kundy is going to go on.
22:11
Speaker 3: And he is.
22:13
Speaker 2: He's gonna photograph Jurassic Park as well, so you know,
22:17
Speaker 2: so the guy's a pretty solid effects cinematographer. And I'm
22:21
Speaker 2: not saying that in a dismissive way. I'm saying like,
22:24
Speaker 2: he obviously knows how to get that camera movement right
22:27
Speaker 2: and get things to line up and get things lit
22:29
Speaker 2: really well. So comparing this to Back to the Future
22:32
Speaker 2: Part three, do you see Condy at work here? Do
22:37
Speaker 2: you see visual similarity with him and Zamechas working together?
22:41
Speaker 3: I do. It's hard because we go from almost exclusively
22:47
Speaker 3: an outdoor movie to a obviously built on sets for
22:53
Speaker 3: major scenes movie like the inside of the castle, the
22:57
Speaker 3: inside of their home, like it it feels like a set.
23:02
Speaker 3: Uh and and so yeah, the the lighting, but it's
23:08
Speaker 3: it's like literally night and day. As far as what
23:10
Speaker 3: you're trying to portray, yeah, I mean, I don't want
23:15
Speaker 3: to keep hashion on the tone, but even just the tone,
23:20
Speaker 3: because I would say they're both comedies in different flavors,
23:25
Speaker 3: but this one, like it makes me think more of
23:31
Speaker 3: Rocketeer or Dick Tracy or or just kind of campy comedy,
23:36
Speaker 3: where like the wind the lightning is it's like when
23:39
Speaker 3: they're driving up the house and it's always lightning and
23:42
Speaker 3: rain and thunder and a dark and stormy night, and
23:45
Speaker 3: it's like, why is it always you know, raining, Yeah, exactly,
23:51
Speaker 3: which you can no, it is not. It is a desert.
23:55
Speaker 2: We do no, No, I seem I seem to recall
23:58
Speaker 2: you saying that it's always raining in La.
24:00
Speaker 4: That it's just never what I say, never ever.
24:04
Speaker 3: Not raining in La. That is Washington. You are mistaken,
24:08
Speaker 3: same coast, different climate.
24:11
Speaker 4: Oh okay, oh is that how that works?
24:13
Speaker 3: Well? But what is the vibe you get as far
24:15
Speaker 3: as like the comedy. I mean, I know you were
24:18
Speaker 3: talking about honestly, but.
24:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well, I mean the thing is even in
24:22
Speaker 2: terms of the look. Honestly, what it calls to mind
24:25
Speaker 2: for me is clue.
24:27
Speaker 3: I was thinking clue. I was getting that vibe too.
24:31
Speaker 2: But but the key difference is the movie can't decide
24:36
Speaker 2: and the ending I think very much contributes to this,
24:38
Speaker 2: them falling apart on the steps and some of the
24:40
Speaker 2: some of the wackier gags that they have is they
24:44
Speaker 2: can't decide whether the characters are.
24:47
Speaker 3: In on the joke. I got how ridiculous it is.
24:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's are they winking at us or are they not?
24:54
Speaker 2: And in some of the stuff, it feels like they're
24:56
Speaker 2: winking at us, and in some of the stuff it
24:58
Speaker 2: definitely feels like they're not. And I think that the
25:02
Speaker 2: winking at us is very early on, like Goldie Hawn,
25:06
Speaker 2: the transformation they put her through and everything to make
25:08
Speaker 2: her the lady living in the apartment with all of
25:13
Speaker 2: the cats, rewatching something that suffer through it, neating ice
25:17
Speaker 2: cream constantly. Like that's the moment where it's almost declared
25:21
Speaker 2: where it's like, Okay, this is don't take this too seriously.
25:24
Speaker 2: But then later on, you know, it just gets it
25:29
Speaker 2: gets its own tone confused. Now the thing is, it
25:31
Speaker 2: feels it feels like we're being really heavy on this,
25:34
Speaker 2: and that's sort of like why I was going with,
25:35
Speaker 2: you know, toward Kundy is I think that Condy at
25:38
Speaker 2: least gets the shots composed really well, gets things lit
25:42
Speaker 2: really well, and you know, the camera movement is very
25:46
Speaker 2: good in this, and then I think the score is
25:50
Speaker 2: very good too. Sol Vestri does a great job coming
25:53
Speaker 2: back and working with his buddies and mechas again. And
25:56
Speaker 2: so I mean, I guess what I'm left with. And
25:59
Speaker 2: the all question for you is we're sort of like
26:02
Speaker 2: rounding third here, right Is is this a movie with
26:08
Speaker 2: all of this discussion that we've had, where the performances
26:11
Speaker 2: are uneven We see unevenness in different spots, and we
26:16
Speaker 2: have all of this great technical work, but we have
26:19
Speaker 2: a script that's sort of a mess at least in
26:23
Speaker 2: my opinion.
26:24
Speaker 4: Are we looking at a.
26:26
Speaker 2: Work by a director that needed to take another year
26:31
Speaker 2: or two off or find a different project coming out
26:35
Speaker 2: of Back to the Future Part three?
26:37
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. I feel like we're almost kind of
26:41
Speaker 3: foreshadowing into next week's episode a Forrest Gump, because we
26:46
Speaker 3: have a very complex story there that is told over
26:50
Speaker 3: an entire lifetime or the majority of this man's lifetime,
26:55
Speaker 3: and I think does so very well, whereas this again
27:00
Speaker 3: I come, I come back to the joke and and
27:03
Speaker 3: really the best scene is when she's fallen down the stairs,
27:08
Speaker 3: he's making the phone call and she gets back up
27:11
Speaker 3: in the background like that that is a scene you
27:14
Speaker 3: could tell someone had in their imagination, in their mind
27:18
Speaker 3: and crafted. And then everything else is getting us there
27:22
Speaker 3: or getting us away from there after like great point,
27:26
Speaker 3: you know. And and not that there aren't great things
27:29
Speaker 3: in the before and the after, but that that is
27:33
Speaker 3: the bedrock of that movie. And and that is where
27:37
Speaker 3: the joke lands of oh what if he finally kills
27:41
Speaker 3: his you know, narcissistic wife and is calling you know,
27:45
Speaker 3: his I don't I won't even say mistress because it's
27:49
Speaker 3: not even that close, but uh, a semi accomplice. And
27:55
Speaker 3: and then she you know, she's back there for a
27:58
Speaker 3: while and like as if the audience is meant to
28:01
Speaker 3: kind of forget that she's in the shot, and then
28:03
Speaker 3: she kind of slowly starts to sit up, and it's
28:07
Speaker 3: very you know, a powerful move as far as like, oh,
28:13
Speaker 3: I'm interested now what is going to happen next? And
28:17
Speaker 3: then we get a bit of good, we get a
28:19
Speaker 3: bit of jumble.
28:21
Speaker 2: Well, I just I go back to it's all solved
28:25
Speaker 2: in the script stage, and I wonder with the how
28:28
Speaker 2: close Back to the Future Part three and this are
28:32
Speaker 2: if Zamecas just couldn't give it the attention that it
28:36
Speaker 2: deserved in pre production. Because we talked, you know, last
28:40
Speaker 2: week as well a lot about how in the old ways,
28:43
Speaker 2: pre production was much more important. And I think that
28:47
Speaker 2: this is one of those movies where you can sense
28:49
Speaker 2: where pre production didn't get as much attention as maybe
28:52
Speaker 2: it should have from the director. I think some of
28:55
Speaker 2: the stuff, a lot of the stuff that we're talking about,
28:57
Speaker 2: just going off of Back to the Future Part three,
29:00
Speaker 2: even looking at the rest of his works, I think
29:04
Speaker 2: this is a director who could have would have pushed
29:07
Speaker 2: people to solve those problems before the camera started rolling.
29:11
Speaker 3: Well and and I tried to look it up, but
29:14
Speaker 3: I don't know where this story came from, you know,
29:19
Speaker 3: I mean I don't see in the in the written
29:22
Speaker 3: by you know. I mean, we have David Cope again,
29:27
Speaker 3: so it's but I'm like, is this from a book?
29:30
Speaker 3: From a short story? From a dream? Like where? Why?
29:36
Speaker 3: Who looked at this idea and went like, that's the
29:38
Speaker 3: movie I want to make, Like I don't feel that
29:41
Speaker 3: here versus like Jurassic Park comes from. You know, this
29:44
Speaker 3: very successful book Back to the Future is this passion
29:48
Speaker 3: project that's grown for Zamechas Forrest Gump, I'm pretty sure
29:53
Speaker 3: was a book.
29:54
Speaker 2: But yes, it was very different though zamechas Uh sort
29:59
Speaker 2: of speeled that book with his adaptation, So it's the
30:06
Speaker 2: book is not quite the lovable examination of American history
30:12
Speaker 2: that the movie is.
30:13
Speaker 3: That's right. I think I remember hearing he interjected Forrest
30:16
Speaker 3: into more of history that he probably wouldn't have been in.
30:21
Speaker 2: And additionally, the situations are a bit sweeter and about
30:27
Speaker 2: a bit more palatable. But I mean, I'm going by
30:30
Speaker 2: what somebody told me because I you know, they read
30:33
Speaker 2: the book and they told me stuff that happened in
30:35
Speaker 2: the book, and I was like, that doesn't sound like the.
30:36
Speaker 4: Movie at all.
30:37
Speaker 2: So maybe maybe we need to have a book club
30:39
Speaker 2: spin off of house Lights where we look at this
30:42
Speaker 2: stuff now. The thing is before we go, though, I
30:45
Speaker 2: do want to point out because we got at how
30:48
Speaker 2: the performances felt a little stilted, a little restrained here
30:51
Speaker 2: and there, and so I'm gonna grab a quote specifically
30:55
Speaker 2: from Streep where she vowed not to work on another
31:01
Speaker 2: film with heavy special effects, where she said, and I'm
31:05
Speaker 2: just taking a couple of choice sentences here. She said,
31:10
Speaker 2: I think it's tedious. Whatever concentration you can apply to
31:14
Speaker 2: that kind of comedy is just shredded. You stand there
31:18
Speaker 2: like a piece of machinery. They should get machinery to
31:21
Speaker 2: do it. And then she back pedals and says, I
31:23
Speaker 2: loved how it turned out, but it's not fun to
31:25
Speaker 2: act to a lampstand. So you see right there, this
31:30
Speaker 2: is a well established actress who was thrown into a
31:35
Speaker 2: very experimental situation.
31:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, experimental is what I think of. Like if this
31:41
Speaker 3: wasn't the on the Razor's edge of effects and was
31:44
Speaker 3: more like, oh, yeah, we know how to do that.
31:47
Speaker 3: We're going to do a head swap, and like we
31:49
Speaker 3: could do that in our sleep right now, like it
31:51
Speaker 3: would have it would be a completely different scenario than
31:54
Speaker 3: this has never been done before.
31:56
Speaker 2: Right right, And I think, yeah, I think this is
32:04
Speaker 2: as a result of very challenging movie. But I think
32:07
Speaker 2: that there is good stuff in here. I think that
32:10
Speaker 2: there is stuff that's I really love Bruce Willis's performance.
32:15
Speaker 2: I think that even though the opening is a jumble,
32:19
Speaker 2: I think Goldie Hawn's having a blast with portraying her
32:25
Speaker 2: sort of like a nervous breakdown era until she comes
32:30
Speaker 2: out of it.
32:32
Speaker 3: And I think that, I mean the.
32:37
Speaker 2: Breakdown that Willis portrays at the party as they're trying
32:40
Speaker 2: to force him to take the potion and he's just
32:44
Speaker 2: refusing to do it, and sort of the hyjenks that
32:48
Speaker 2: go through and you know, subtracting the fall down the
32:52
Speaker 2: steps at the very end, which is just an unfortunate choice.
32:56
Speaker 2: At the very least, they still gave us the idea
33:00
Speaker 2: that he escaped and went on to have a good life.
33:05
Speaker 2: At least I get that with the character that I
33:07
Speaker 2: think is definitely the right instinct.
33:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, the funeral ending itself the way it's just a
33:14
Speaker 3: eulogy and you're listing like all the cool things he did,
33:17
Speaker 3: I mean, even his go to saying of life begins
33:20
Speaker 3: at fifty or something like that, and you're like, we
33:23
Speaker 3: know the inside joke of all the little things that
33:26
Speaker 3: are being said, of the causes he put money into
33:30
Speaker 3: and the things he did with his family and all that,
33:32
Speaker 3: and you're like, we know why we know what shocked
33:35
Speaker 3: him into living that life to its fullest, so we
33:39
Speaker 3: knew him even better than his family.
33:42
Speaker 4: That's right, that's right.
33:44
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think at its core, it's a movie
33:50
Speaker 3: without a character to relate to or even root for, Like, yeah, Ruill,
33:57
Speaker 3: it's like we're rooting for him in the end, but
34:01
Speaker 3: I don't relate to him. I don't relate to any
34:05
Speaker 3: of the main characters. I'm not like, oh yeah, when
34:09
Speaker 3: I went through my narcissistic phase and I really valued youth,
34:12
Speaker 3: I totally thought I wished I found a magic vile
34:16
Speaker 3: like or maybe not that specific. It's being a little crass,
34:18
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think other movies we've seen by Zamechas
34:24
Speaker 3: there's at least some characteristics that you know makes you pause.
34:28
Speaker 3: And I think movies that have a character, a main
34:32
Speaker 3: character that you relate to and some way is important.
34:37
Speaker 3: And there wasn't. Really it was the joke. It was
34:41
Speaker 3: all about the joke and the stunt, which again isn't
34:45
Speaker 3: a bad thing to make a movie on. But it's
34:47
Speaker 3: only going to get you so far.
34:50
Speaker 2: It is only going to get you so far. But
34:54
Speaker 2: at the end of it all, it's at least entertaining.
34:58
Speaker 2: I think that this is something where a lesser director
35:02
Speaker 2: painted into a corner with an ending that they have
35:04
Speaker 2: to change. I think this goes disastrously wrong. I think
35:09
Speaker 2: actually of another Bruce Willis movie that I've never seen
35:12
Speaker 2: but was a very famous flop, was the adaptation of
35:16
Speaker 2: Bonfire of the Vanities, which is relatively contemporary to this
35:21
Speaker 2: and apparently did not come together at the very least Zamechis.
35:27
Speaker 2: Even if it's a mess, you can tell that he's
35:31
Speaker 2: throwing all of his skill behind telling it as best
35:35
Speaker 2: as he can. He keeps it moving, and a lot
35:40
Speaker 2: of the complaints that I would have about it are
35:42
Speaker 2: in retrospect, not while I'm watching Necessarily.
35:46
Speaker 3: I think that's fair.
35:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that this I've always had a
35:51
Speaker 2: bit of a soft spot for it, and I never
35:56
Speaker 2: shy away from coming back to it.
35:57
Speaker 4: In fact, it's it's.
36:00
Speaker 2: So funny that we're covering this because not long before
36:04
Speaker 2: this recording, I hosted fellow Nerd Party member Matt Rushing,
36:10
Speaker 2: and he had never seen this before, and so I
36:14
Speaker 2: showed this to him for the first time, and I
36:18
Speaker 2: know that it went over well, and you know, it
36:21
Speaker 2: got the last it got the positive reaction that I
36:24
Speaker 2: know that Zamechis was looking for. So obviously the movie
36:28
Speaker 2: still works at least for most people, I guess, and
36:34
Speaker 2: I think it works for me. But even with Tristan missing,
36:37
Speaker 2: we can't say what his rating is for this, which
36:40
Speaker 2: is unfortunate because it feels like there's something missing. So Darren,
36:45
Speaker 2: in Tristan's absence, we're going to come up with his
36:49
Speaker 2: rating for death becomes or We've recorded enough with Tristan
36:53
Speaker 2: that this is going to be a new feature. This
36:55
Speaker 2: is how we're going to torture people for missing a week?
37:00
Speaker 2: Is any one of the three of us now, and
37:02
Speaker 2: we will be bound by the rating that the other
37:04
Speaker 2: two come up with.
37:06
Speaker 4: Do we agree with this? So we have a gentleman's
37:07
Speaker 4: I agree.
37:08
Speaker 3: They're gonna have to update their letterbox account to match
37:11
Speaker 3: what we say.
37:13
Speaker 2: I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Okay, so
37:16
Speaker 2: let's break it down. Of course, the first thing, I mean,
37:19
Speaker 2: obviously Tristan's gonna have a problem with the editing.
37:21
Speaker 3: I mean he's gonna I thought, first thing was is
37:23
Speaker 3: this a Adell family favorite? And oh I don't think
37:28
Speaker 3: it is. It doesn't think so feel like the kind
37:31
Speaker 3: of thing that ends up on that VHS shelf.
37:35
Speaker 4: No, it's not on the VHS shelf.
37:37
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think that I think that
37:41
Speaker 2: he really hated the ending of this, and I think
37:44
Speaker 2: he really hated the editing as well.
37:46
Speaker 3: And I think he didn't like the time. I mean,
37:48
Speaker 3: we've talked a lot about time. Anytime time is on
37:50
Speaker 3: the radar and it is too long, He's like, I
37:53
Speaker 3: could have cut this in three different ways and it
37:56
Speaker 3: would have been thirty minutes shorter and the jokes would
37:59
Speaker 3: have been more succinct.
38:01
Speaker 2: He would have had a problem with me coming after Streep,
38:04
Speaker 2: even though Streep herself said she didn't have a great
38:06
Speaker 2: time making the movie. He hates when I come after Streep,
38:10
Speaker 2: So he probably spitefully would have raised his rating a
38:13
Speaker 2: little bit just to come at me about that.
38:15
Speaker 4: I think that's fair. Do you think he liked the
38:18
Speaker 4: music in the photography.
38:20
Speaker 3: I think he would have liked the photography, at least,
38:23
Speaker 3: especially knowing that it went into the same as Drassic Park.
38:29
Speaker 4: That's a good point.
38:30
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I think he loved the score,
38:33
Speaker 2: so I think the score helped him like it a
38:35
Speaker 2: little bit more so, where are we landing with Tristan
38:37
Speaker 2: two or two and a half.
38:39
Speaker 3: I think it liked two and a half. I think
38:41
Speaker 3: two and a half. I don't think this movie did
38:44
Speaker 3: well commercially, like there is an era of you know,
38:48
Speaker 3: oh yeah it did not bomb.
38:51
Speaker 2: No, it cost a fifty five million to make, and
38:55
Speaker 2: then I think globally it made one hundred and forty
38:58
Speaker 2: nine million.
38:59
Speaker 3: So in the nineties, which is yeah, triple, it's triple.
39:04
Speaker 2: It's its budget pretty much close to triple its budget.
39:09
Speaker 3: That's okay. I mean, I'm looking back at Replacement Killers
39:12
Speaker 3: and Equalizer and Where the Wild Things Are, which we're
39:15
Speaker 3: all two point five for him. Tristan hasn't given a
39:17
Speaker 3: two since Wes Craven's New Nightmare. He's very like it
39:23
Speaker 3: has to really be a bad film for him to
39:26
Speaker 3: get I think he's too I think he's going to
39:27
Speaker 3: give it too.
39:28
Speaker 4: You think so, yeah, I think he's going to give
39:30
Speaker 4: it too.
39:31
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I have to agree with you, John.
39:34
Speaker 2: But the thing is, even if he disagrees, even if
39:37
Speaker 2: he comes in thundering at us when he finally hears this,
39:41
Speaker 2: he's bound by house lights law.
39:44
Speaker 4: It's just there's no no way out.
39:46
Speaker 3: Of it shaken from the amulet, so he has to
39:49
Speaker 3: do it. Yeah, we'll put that in brackets.
39:53
Speaker 2: So put that in brackets, and uh, you know what,
39:56
Speaker 2: I'm going to give my rating and I'm going to
39:58
Speaker 2: let you go last. See I'm also kinder than Tristan
40:01
Speaker 2: because I'm not gonna make you go first. I actually,
40:05
Speaker 2: you know, for all of the seeming to rag on
40:09
Speaker 2: it earlier, and there are problems with this movie, there
40:13
Speaker 2: are definite problems with this movie. I really think Bruce
40:18
Speaker 2: Willis has the energy that shows why he became a
40:23
Speaker 2: star in the first place, especially as a comedic TV actor.
40:28
Speaker 2: He's got a great charisma. I think that he's having
40:31
Speaker 2: a blast, and when Willis is on screen, I can't
40:35
Speaker 2: help but have fun with this movie. I think that
40:37
Speaker 2: I'd be foolish to overlook the technical wizardry on display.
40:42
Speaker 2: And even though the ending falls flat only because of
40:47
Speaker 2: that last fall down the stairs. Seriously, if you subtracted that,
40:52
Speaker 2: my rating man actually would be Yeah, it's one joke
40:54
Speaker 2: too many. I'm going to come in and I'm going
40:57
Speaker 2: to land with a three and a half for this.
40:59
Speaker 2: So this is your first viewing. Where did you land
41:02
Speaker 2: with it?
41:03
Speaker 3: Yeah? First viewing, I'm giving it a three, and that
41:07
Speaker 3: gives it, you know, a little bit of a bump
41:10
Speaker 3: from the technical achievement. You can tell. Besides, you know,
41:15
Speaker 3: even with Street talking about the nuance of the technical,
41:20
Speaker 3: that's really only a couple of scenes. So the vast majority,
41:25
Speaker 3: she's just chewing the scenery up, and you can tell
41:28
Speaker 3: she's having fun being the Hollywood wash out and Goldie
41:35
Speaker 3: Hahn is eating like you said she was having I
41:38
Speaker 3: think just as much fun doing the fat makeup and
41:42
Speaker 3: being the cat lady for like half a second, and
41:45
Speaker 3: then she's like, but then I get to be poured
41:46
Speaker 3: into this dress later and show everyone who I really am.
41:51
Speaker 3: And it's a movie that I kind of wish I
41:54
Speaker 3: had caught the cover out of the corner of my
41:58
Speaker 3: eye at Blockbuster years ago and picked up on a
42:01
Speaker 3: lark to just watch and maybe had a little more
42:03
Speaker 3: time with it. But is it something I'm going to
42:07
Speaker 3: buy and be like, oh, I gotta watch this. But
42:11
Speaker 3: would I maybe show it to another film friend like
42:13
Speaker 3: you did with Rushing? Yes, I would so right down
42:16
Speaker 3: the middle as a three, higher than Tristan rated it.
42:20
Speaker 3: So there's that saying something.
42:21
Speaker 2: I'm disappointed that Tristan was so hard on this film.
42:24
Speaker 2: But you know I heard him. I heard him through
42:27
Speaker 2: all the space and time. But what I haven't heard,
42:30
Speaker 2: although you dropped a hint earlier, is Darren, what are
42:34
Speaker 2: we covering next week as we continue looking at the
42:36
Speaker 2: works of Robert Zemechis in the nineteen nineties.
42:39
Speaker 3: Well, if you love special effects, boy do we have
42:43
Speaker 3: a movie with them. Spread throughout we are covering nineteen
42:47
Speaker 3: ninety four's Forrest Gump here on house Lights.
42:52
Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.