Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Dr. Drew on Unknown Number Catfish Doc, Cardi B and Prison Housewives

Transcript

Dr. Drew on Unknown Number Catfish Doc, Cardi B and Prison Housewives · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
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  Speaker 1: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life, Mr.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo. Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Oh my God, let's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: get into it. First of all, you may have heard
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: all the funny things or little quick videos of Cardi
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  Speaker 1: B on the stand. And you might've been confused as
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I was, like, what is this case even about? Well,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: she just won. The jury went and spoke about it
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  Speaker 1: for an hour and came back in Cardi B's favor.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: This is what happened. When she was pregnant with her
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: first child with Offset, she hadn't told anybody, not her family,
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  Speaker 1: no one. And she was at her OBGYN. And when
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  Speaker 1: she was approaching the office, this female security guard was
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: filming her. And according to Cardi B, she was like
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: in her face with the camera, with her phone, trying
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  Speaker 1: to get video of her. And Cardi B had words
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  Speaker 1: with her. Well, this woman, this is in 2018, said
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: that she was attacked by Cardi B's long nails. We
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  Speaker 1: know that she likes her nails. Scratched her face and
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  Speaker 1: was suing. Now, they had a full jury trial. And
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: much like those great moments that happened with Gwyneth Paltrow
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  Speaker 1: when the guy tried to sue her saying that she
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  Speaker 1: ran into him or he ran into her or whatever
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: while they were skiing and she was just so Gwyneth
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  Speaker 1: in every goop way of just, well, yes, it was
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a half day of skiing and that is quite pricey,
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  Speaker 1: but you know, well, Cardi B was given us all
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  Speaker 1: her Cardi B's. She wore a different wig every day.
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  Speaker 1: And it was so weird because the opposing counsel would
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  Speaker 1: ask her the strangest things like, is that your real hair?
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  Speaker 1: And she's like, I don't think so. It's a wig.
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  Speaker 1: And Then he was trying to talk about the event.
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  Speaker 1: And he says to her, well, who, you know, you,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: what do you think of her? And she's like, well,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think she's bigger than I am. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: she was bigger. And he's like, how do you know that?
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  Speaker 1: Why would you say that? And she's like, I know
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  Speaker 1: it because I have eyes. I mean, And then she'd
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  Speaker 1: be like, because I was pregnant. Okay. I was pregnant.
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  Speaker 1: Like there were just these moments and the audience would just,
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  Speaker 1: not the audience, but the jury, the people in the
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  Speaker 1: court were just burst out laughing. Anyway, it definitely seemed
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  Speaker 1: like she was in the right. And she had the
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  Speaker 1: doctor and also the receptionist say that they saw what happened.
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  Speaker 1: They heard an altercation outside and that's what she agreed
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  Speaker 1: to too. She said it was a verbal altercation. altercation
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  Speaker 1: and then it never got physical and the jury sided
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  Speaker 1: with her and they came out with their verdict in
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  Speaker 1: less than an hour so there you go Cardi B
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  Speaker 1: is free to go on with her bad self.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: They think you're done for the day but they don't
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  Speaker 2: know about the drawer the drawer just the one square
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  Speaker 2: before bed or two you know Nobody's watching.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You deserve a treat.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Karen Huger, a real housewife of Potomac, in case you're
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: not familiar, she calls herself the Grand Dame. She's been
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: on the show for as long as it's been around,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: maybe eight years. And she got her fourth DUI a
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: couple years ago. And she fought it. She decided to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: go to trial on it. And she was convicted and
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  Speaker 1: just finished doing six months behind bars. And she is ready.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: She is back. She's got her hair done. She's wearing
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: shorts and a trench coat. She's 62. And there you go.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And she's going to have.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: She's out with supervision. I guess that means like probation.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: If she does well, that probation for five years will
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: be cut down to three. She cannot drive for a year.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: And when she is able to drive, it'll be with a,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe something where you have to blow into
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  Speaker 1: it to drive the car. And there you go. But
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking like, can't she just afford a driver
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: or self-driving? I wonder if self-driving would eliminate that whole
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: having to blow into the thing. If it's just an
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: AI robot driving your car, do you still have to
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: blow into the ignition? Just thinking about it. Anyway, so
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: she's done six months. We know Teresa did a full
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: year from Real Houses of New Jersey. Jen Shaw is
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: going to get out, I think, in less than a year.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: So you're welcome, the world. I thought of the next
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I heart radio, um, podcast with these ladies. It's called
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: doing time with tree, the Dom and the Shaw with
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the tree, the Dom and the Shaw. Okay. Doing time
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: with the tree, the Dom and the Shaw, a podcast
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: where they talk, actually talk about when they did time
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  Speaker 1: together and what was similar, what was different, what they learned, whatever.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe it wouldn't last forever, but they usually don't. So
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that's my idea. You're welcome. Okay, let me see. Scooter Braun,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: you know Scooter Braun, notorious Scooter Braun from the music industry.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: He is rumored to be dating Sidney Sweeney. This rumor
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: was a little bit talked about when they were at
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  Speaker 1: the Bezos wedding together. But that video from when they
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  Speaker 1: were in Venice resurfaced over Labor Day weekend and now
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  Speaker 1: Sources are coming forward saying, yes, they're dating, but it's casual.
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  Speaker 1: It's a casual hookup. There is a 17-year age difference.
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  Speaker 1: He's 44. She's 27, which I'm like, that's not that
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  Speaker 1: big of a difference. But then when I realized that
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  Speaker 1: my own daughter is, you know, 25, I kind of go,
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  Speaker 1: that is kind of old to be dating someone that
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: much older than you. But anyway, we'll see what happens
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: with that. Travis, we found out that Travis did propose
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to Taylor. right after they finished recording the podcast. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I was slightly joking when I said he was holding
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that out, dangling that ring in front of her until
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  Speaker 1: she agreed to go on his podcast. And it's true.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I wonder how many other male podcasters that have a
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: more famous girlfriend are saying like, look, either you come
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: on the podcast or we're not getting engaged. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: this is... I don't know if there's that many more
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  Speaker 1: dynamics like that, but maybe even people that aren't that
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  Speaker 1: famous since everyone has a podcast and you're like, oh,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: my boyfriend's so annoying. No, I don't want to be
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  Speaker 1: on your dumb podcast. And he's like, really? You don't?
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  Speaker 1: You know who went on their dumb boyfriend's podcast? Taylor Swift.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: You know who's engaged now? Taylor Swift. So he, right
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: after they finished doing the podcast, he said, let's have
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: a glass of wine in my garden before we go
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: out to dinner. And while they were doing the podcast,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I guess, is when he had the flower people come
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: and set up his garden. So then he could ask
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  Speaker 1: her to marry him and then gave her the ring.
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  Speaker 1: And then they called their parents and said, don't forget
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  Speaker 1: to listen to tomorrow's episode. It drops at midnight. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: and also we're engaged. And so exciting is that I
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: too have dropped a whole new podcast called Juicy Crimes.
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  Speaker 1: And you can subscribe right now. The link is in
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the description below. Click on that and subscribe. The first
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: episode is out right now. New episodes drop every Wednesday
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  Speaker 1: and you are going to love it. So do it.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And getting into one of a very juicy crime that
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: captured my attention, I have my friend Dr. Drew who
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: joined in to talk about it because you guys were
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  Speaker 1: begging for it. So let's get into it. the mother
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  Speaker 1: who cyber-bullied her own daughter. Crazy. Welcome, Dr.
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  Speaker 3: Drew.
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  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have such a
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  Speaker 1: juicy guest for you. You guys specially requested this because
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  Speaker 1: everyone is talking about this crazy documentary over the weekend,
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  Speaker 1: and you specifically said, please get Dr. Drew on. We
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  Speaker 1: want to have him weigh in on, I think, one
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  Speaker 1: of the worst mothers ever. In modern day history. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: And the documentary. Welcome, Dr. Drew. Thank you for coming.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you. A pleasure to be here. We rushed it
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: to get to the Juicy Scoopers. And I have always
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  Speaker 3: felt so welcomed by your world. Like I said, I've
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: told you before, I run into them all over the country.
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  Speaker 3: and they're such enthusiasts and I welcome, I'm so privileged
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  Speaker 3: to be a part of this.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much. And you know, you just
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: reminded me because you have such a great setup at
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: home because we are doing this via Zoom that when
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: you had your CNN show, the HLN show, I used
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: to come on A lot. And those are good times.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: That's why I feel like our friendship really got strong
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: because we're real friends. Anyway, let's get it.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: We're going to go vacation in January.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, we have a fun we have a fun wedding
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  Speaker 1: to go to, which we'll share with you as we
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: get closer. But to fill people in, if you've not
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: seen this doc. It is, I am going to do
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: some spoilers. It was a true story that happened in
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: 2020 that I covered. So when I start talking about it,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: if you've been in Juicy Scoop for that long, you'll
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: remember it because I was fascinated by it. It is
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  Speaker 1: about two young teenagers, Lauren and Owen, that were innocent,
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  Speaker 1: like 14-year-old boyfriend, girlfriend, known each other since they were 12.
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  Speaker 1: Families knew each other. The town was extremely small, Isabella
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  Speaker 1: County in Michigan. And all of a sudden, they both
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  Speaker 1: start getting text messages in a group text that is
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  Speaker 1: very negative towards Lauren, saying, like, he doesn't want to
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  Speaker 1: be with you, Owen. He wants to be with me.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And they kind of walk you through it, and they
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  Speaker 1: think for a while it's mean girls or somebody else
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  Speaker 1: that may have dated Owen or liked him or a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: girl on her basketball team that was like her nemesis.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And the documentary does a great job walking you through,
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  Speaker 1: making you wonder. Now, right when I saw this, I said, oh,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I know it's the mom. I remember the story. It
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: is the mom. It's Lauren's mom. And so, like I said,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: there was going to be a spoiler, but they did
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  Speaker 1: a great job for the people that don't know the crime.
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  Speaker 1: So a lot of people are shocked. It's getting a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: lot of reaction. It infuriated me when it happened back
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  Speaker 1: in 2020. I just couldn't believe what like a thirsty,
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  Speaker 1: disgusting bitch this person was. And it's not just, oh, she,
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  Speaker 1: you know, cyber bullied her daughter. I mean, the texts
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  Speaker 1: through are disgusting. They're very, very sexual saying to the
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  Speaker 1: boy and to Lauren, he doesn't want to be with
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  Speaker 1: you if you're not going to give him blow jobs.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: And this is, I'm going to say it cause it's
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a juice scoop, but like his fingers and my, you know,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: pee and all this other stuff, really graphic, really, really
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  Speaker 1: sexual stuff, which then even freaks you out more that
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  Speaker 1: it's the mother.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's weird.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I did not know that element of it. When the
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  Speaker 1: story came out in 2020, I just thought it was
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  Speaker 1: a girl, a mother that was cyber bullying her daughter
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  Speaker 1: to get attention and for everyone to feel sorry for
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  Speaker 1: the daughter. And, um, And I thought it was very,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: very weird back then. But this documentary really spells it out.
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  Speaker 1: And it went on for 22 months before she was caught.
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  Speaker 1: And the way she was caught is finally, I mean, finally,
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  Speaker 1: the authorities, because she couldn't block the call. Obviously, when
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  Speaker 1: you get a weird call. I just got a dirty
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  Speaker 1: call the other day, Drew. Uh-oh. An old-fashioned, like a 1970s.
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  Speaker 1: Like you got some big titties call.
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  Speaker 3: What did we used to call those? We called them like.
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  Speaker 1: Photographic phone calls.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I had a name like, uh, anyway, they, they used
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  Speaker 3: to be a thing. People would breathe heavy on the
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  Speaker 3: other end of the line.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like on a landline. And it was just a
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: random thing. And I, I hung up and they called
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  Speaker 1: back and then I blocked it and then that's it,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you know, but this, there was something about the way
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: she set up the phone that it was this, um,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: this whatever thing feature that you could have that would
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  Speaker 1: hide the, um, hide who the caller was and you
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: were able to block it. And, you know, other people
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: wrote in the things, why wouldn't you just get your
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: daughter a new phone? Like how am I like, what
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is she running a fortune 500 company? You can get
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a new number, you can get a new phone. Right.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting that the parents didn't do that, including
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Owen's mom.
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  Speaker 3: Is that when you knew something was up with the mom?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I, I already, okay. I already knew that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I already knew the story, but I was watching with
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: my son Drake and he, he, um, he said he
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: didn't know, but then he said he started to figure
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: it out towards like the end and before it was revealed,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: but it's a great reveal because it's the body cam,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: nothing like body cam footage when someone gets caught.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I don't, it's just like the most fascinating. And he,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: they show up at her house and the mom, because
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: they basically, they finally get the, the warrants and the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: everything to go to the tech companies and to the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: horizons or whatever. And they figure out the IP dress
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: is the mother who's named Kendra. And it's, you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: for two years, it's been her.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Who started the investigation?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Well, they, you know, the parents of Owen.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Other parents, yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: You know, first, Owen's parents, because he was getting them,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and they were good friends. Lauren and Owen, the boyfriend
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and girlfriend, both their mothers, Kendra, and I forgot her name,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: they were good friends. They were social friends. They knew
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: each other from before the kids were, like, at all,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: like a little couple or whatever. Wow. And so they
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: went to the school. They felt the school wasn't doing enough.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: they were trying to do their own investigation. Like if
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: texts would pop up and it would be like in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: a group text and they kind of be like, oh
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: my God, it's that weird person that started the group text.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And they'd kind of be looking, who is looking at
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: their phone right now? That's not part of this call.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Could they be the one that's doing it? And the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: school tried to do that too. And, you know, and
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: it just was so alienating. And then, you know, eventually
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: they break up as a couple and And he gets
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: another little girlfriend and she starts getting the gross calls
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and text messages. So then she breaks up with him.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: And again, watching it as awful as it is. Cause
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you're like, no, you know, when someone's harassed or whatever,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't have to change their phone. They shouldn't have
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: to move. But at the same time, I was like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: it's a teenager to feel like don't have a phone
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: for three months. And then let's get you a new
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: number and like, see if like, This doesn't go away,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: but really the juice is that it was the mother,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and when she's confronted with it, and I'm just kind
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: of jumping through, not letting you really talk, because then
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I want you to analyze this woman. What's crazy is
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: she was a teacher at the school. She coached a
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: couple teams. She had lied to her husband for 10
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: months about a job that she had that she didn't have.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: She said she was quit. She quit when she was fired.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: She was in charge of the finances in which they had,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you know, struggled financially, but he was just like going
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: through the motions. And also what was so funny in
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: the doc is when they come in with the body cam,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: they said, Oh, we're, you know, we were going through
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: financial struggles. We were so broke. I know it's different
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: in other States than California, but they live on the water. Okay.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: They lived on the water. It was a tiny house.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: They lived on the water. And when they walked in,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it was kind of like a shit show as far
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: as like, you know, mismatching furniture stuff. But the entire
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: dining room table was stacked with different balls of alcohol.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And the documentary person never mentioned it. Nobody else ever
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: mentioned it. And she's like, they tell the daughter and
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: she was just like, no reaction, which I wondered if
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: people thought, did she possibly ever know? that it was
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: her mom or something or, you know, and then she's
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: hugging her daughter. I just want to be with my daughter.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I just want to be with my daughter with her
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: annoying fucking face. I just want to be with my, okay.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And the husband is like, you need to go. You
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: need to call your parents right now. We are done.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: We are done. Like, I don't want anything to do
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: with you ever again. Call your parents right now and go.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: She's like, but what about my daughter?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: No.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So she gets arrested and she, did get convicted of
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: cyber-stalking and did 19 months. And Lauren, the daughter, still
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: is like, I love my mom and I miss my mom.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And the things that she says in her interview, I
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: was like, how was this woman willing to do this documentary?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: They already did a movie, like a made-for-TV movie, where
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Lisa Renna played her. So now I want to watch that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And that came out like a year or something ago.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: You got to call Lisa.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, well, she probably didn't get any money
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: out of that. The people didn't get anything because it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a public, you know, story. Yeah. So I'm like, did she,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: did they get paid? That I did not know, but
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: she agreed to go do it. The documentarian said that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it was hard to get Kendra, the mom to agree,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: but she wanted to answer it in her own words.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So the way that the film works, the documentary is they, they,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: they get stuff out of her where they can place it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: So that the watcher doesn't know that she's guilty. And
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: then when she spills the beans of doing it, she says, well,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: it started out that there was a real text that
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't from me around Halloween. Are you going to the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Halloween party? And. then they stopped. And then I wanted
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to know who it was. So then I created this
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: person to then see if we could figure out who
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: it was. There's no proof that it wasn't her from
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the beginning.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: So keep going. And then they're like, why? The initial calls,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the initial texts were not this Super sexual and she
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: gets to the point drew where she says why don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you just off yourself already? Bang hashtag bang. Yeah, you're
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: not gonna kill yourself. We will hashtag bang and Reward
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the easy way. Optionscard.ie.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: filed against me.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: what would you do if it was given back?
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: started crying.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: those hard moments that they go through.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: It's about what happens next.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work. Listen, Dara,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to pull punches.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And they ask her, the documentarian asked her, were you
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: ever afraid that maybe your daughter would go through with
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: what you were telling her to do as a cyber bully?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And she goes, is there a face? No, I mean,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I know my daughter really well and I was not
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: concerned that she'd actually do that. And I mean, it
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was like 50 texts a day, not like once a week. Oh,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: this bitch is back. Like, 50 texts a day because
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: she wasn't working. So this was all her life. And
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: she had a tech background. And so I just need,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: let's just talk, talk about. All right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Let's first, let's first think about the daughter. So let's
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: talk about the daughter first. Cause you, you mentioned that
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: she seemed to sort of closed off when they came in.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: And of course the daughter is thoroughly indoctrinated in this
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: crazy mom's world, right? That that's the thing about these
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: sort of munchausen by proxy like situations is There's no
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: boundary between the mom and the child. And the child
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: is essentially in a cult of two. And that cult
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: has completely manipulated her. And this is her sense of love,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: her sense of closeness. She is brought up to idolize
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: the mom. Mom needs all that. The child is responsible
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: for the mom's well-being and feeling states. So the daughter's
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: reaction is perfectly understandable, which is shock, shut down. no
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: spontaneous feelings because she's not been allowed to really have
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: any for quite some time. Now, as time goes on,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: hopefully she got some treatment and she can start to
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: individuate from that moment. Again, the whole thing is to
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: prevent the child from individuating. That's the deal in these
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: kinds of situations. And so hopefully she's gotten enough sort
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: of distance that she can look back and So ultimately,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you're not going to like this, but it's for a
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: child to kind of get through something like this. They
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: have to be able to look back and find forgiveness
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: and understand mom is sick and she's still my mother
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: and bring together all these conflicted feelings. That takes a
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: long time. Hopefully, this child can get there. Now, the mom,
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. Let me just start from the beginning and say, look,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: we don't know her. We're speculating for sure. Also, it
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: is very difficult to make sense of anything. You know,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: using your healthy brain to make sense of a sick
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: brain's behavior, it doesn't follow logically necessarily. So to try
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: to sort of apply logic to her behavior doesn't really work.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: And then finally, she's a criminal, right? She's a criminal.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And she may have a lot more criminality than we know.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: But let's just state up front that even if there's
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: an underlying psychopathology, by the point that the behavior reaches
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: a level of criminality, That's on the legal system now
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: and full force of God should be brought to bear
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: because people can be very dangerous in spite of there
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: being an underlying understanding of the psychopathology underneath. I mean,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: you know, drug addicts kill people because they want their drugs.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, things can happen. People drive drunk. There's an
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: interesting flavor in this, which I was thinking before you
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: mentioned the alcohol, there's an addictive flavor in all of this.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: And sometimes alcoholics or drug addicts will get into these
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: sort of I don't know how to describe it. It
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: often involves process addiction, porn addiction, where they sort of,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: in their alcoholism, start to get the dopamine hits from
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: what they're getting off the internet. Now, I'm just sort
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: of framing that to say that that is a thing
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: that I've seen, mostly with porn addiction, that kind of thing.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: But it does occur in the setting of other addictions. Then,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: to try to understand all this, I think you nailed
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: it in your TikTok post. I think you were onto
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: it early and often. I think you actually got it right.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: And you were saying, and I was curious, when you
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: came to that conclusion, was it before the documentary?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: The conclusion that she's one of those female teachers stuck
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: in high school and Possibly on her way to being
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: a pedophile and in love with Owen?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Well, that's not the part I was talking about. That's
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: a possibility. I was talking about the sort of internet
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Munchausen by proxy kind of thing.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. Well, I didn't come up with that. That
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: was one of the things that the detective said, which
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I thought was so interesting, being that social media and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: texting and all of that is such a huge part
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: of everyone's life, not just teenagers, whatever. And so many people...
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: that's their only outlet. That's what they live for. They
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: can't wait to get back on those pages where they
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: can be anonymous and, and, you know, torture people with
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: their mean words and whatever it is. And I do
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: think that she got sucked into that. And instead of
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: being on a nasty housewife snark page, right. Talking about,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I hate this woman and you know, her husband hates
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: her too or something. It was my own daughter. Yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And the things that she said in going after her
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: daughter's appearance to, I mean, the little bit of excuses
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that she said in the doc was, I never said
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I was a perfect person.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: I know, that's crazy.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And, you know, people do wrong things, which kind of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: reminds me of when I interviewed, what's her name? Pippin, Papini. Stephanie, wait,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: what's her name? Why can't I remember her name? Papini. Papini.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: The fake kidnap victim.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, right.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: What the hell is her first name?
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: I can't remember, but I do know your daughter.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Sherry Papini. Sherry Papini. When she did her doc, and
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: now I'm coming forward, and yes, I lied about some things,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: but some things I was a victim of, it was
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the same type of thing in that I had a
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: horrible childhood. I had childhood trauma. I was abused, sexually abused,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Sherry Papini says. And therefore, you know, when this, when
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I found myself in this situation, which I was a victim, I,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I chose to lie and keep this lie going on
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and on and on. And it's same thing. She said
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I had childhood trauma, though. She never says what it
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: was in the doc. And so I was almost like
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: traumatizing myself through my daughter by like, And I should write,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you know, Owen's never going to– Owen doesn't like you
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: with your anorexic and flat ass. Well, you know. My–
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I've been very, very abused about my flat ass. The
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: flat ass is a triggering place to be.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Especially with a family member going after you.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: In a post-210 world of Kim Kardashian, a flat ass
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: is a real mean thing to say. No one ever says, oh,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: you're flat chested. It's fine to be flat chested. Little
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: titties are in. Flat ass, not the way to be.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: And so... So she says that, and she goes, well,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I was not eating enough at that time, so I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: was actually, like, abusing myself. It sounds like she– I
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: don't know if she got any kind of therapy in
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: prison or she sort of thought of that whole projecting defense.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I was just projecting on myself. But you're telling your
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: 14-year-old daughter mean things that, honestly, sometimes with these cruel
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: people that are cyberbullies to anybody, whether they know you
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: or not, your daughter– they sometimes bring up mean things
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: about someone's appearance that the person themselves wasn't even aware of.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, sure.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: And then now all of a sudden, you're like, oh,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I do have a weird tooth on that side of
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: my mouth. Like, I never knew that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Well, especially as a young adolescent female.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. But but so let's state this, you know,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: posit these things. There's no therefore. There's no, I was traumatized, therefore. No, no, no, therefore.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: But I was traumatized and people who are traumatized reenact
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: that trauma as a way of kind of understanding what
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: this was, but it's not because, not therefore, because that
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: sounds like a justification, right? There's no justification for the behavior.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: The behavior is sick. Now, Sick behavior, understand, people get
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: sick and things happen. But when it starts harming other people,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: now we have to, again, you have to bring consequences down.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: And this person has to ultimately make amends. And this
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: takes a long, long time to work through somebody in
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: this kind of condition, if ever possible. And so what
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: we see with this kind of thing, oftentimes is, like
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: she mentioned the trauma, the trauma is also associated with
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: personality disorders, right? And borderline personality is very much associated
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: with this kind of thing where they have sort of
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: split off parts of themselves. It can actually go all
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: the way to dissociative identity disorder, and people argue about
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: whether that exists, but DID has been implicated in situations
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: like this. And this woman's sort of her absolute lack
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: of any connection to the behavior, the part of herself
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: that was engaged in this behavior, immediately made me think
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: about DID. So there's at least a dissociated feature in
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: what she's doing. Like this is a part of herself
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: way off in the distance somewhere that is acting out
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: in ways that are just reprehensible. And unless she can
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: call it that, that it is disgusting, reprehensible behavior, she's
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: not okay. She is not okay.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's like threefold here with this woman. I
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: think she is a certain type of teacher that, you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: chose to be a teacher because she likes to be
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the smartest one in the room. And what probably wasn't
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: very popular in high school. And now she is popular
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and gets to see it. And I think with certain teachers, that's,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: that seems to be the issue when they then become
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a pedophile and have sex with a boys that are
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: not 18 and their students, whether they're 18 or not,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: still obviously wrong.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: But again, it's this underdeveloped part of themselves that's highly
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: traumatized and off in the distance that engages in these behaviors,
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: that brings the behaviors forth. And so then I remember,
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: what was her name? Mary Kay Kopechnik, the one that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mary Kay Letourneau.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Letourneau, Letourneau. And she, when you heard some of her
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: phone calls, she sounded like a different person. when she
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: was talking to that 13 year old, like some one
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: call was like a little baby almost. And one was
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: like a domineering, you know, all business sort of executive.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: And it was just like, these are different people that
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: this woman is manifesting here. It's just so, so, so sick. Now,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting to me also that you've had
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: such a visceral response to this yourself and so many
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: of the juicy scoopers, because one thing I learned through
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: working with teen mom, nothing Moms like more than coming
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: down on other moms or engaging in, in, in, in
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: not good behavior. There's cause men don't, men go, Oh
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: my God. But women, they, you really, it's a, it's a,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: it triggers some very primitive instincts in everybody. You got
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: that feeling?
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: And I think it's because it is a mother and
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it's who has a teenage daughter. So the teenage daughter
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: in us.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Is horrified that a mother would do that. And then there,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and then as a mother, yes, we are judgy of
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: other mothers because, you know, I feel God made it
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: us women that could procreate and carry babies because he
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: knows that we would care more about the life than men.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And so I feel like as women, we are overprotective
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and we are more angry when we see another mother
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: abuse their power and, And whether it's physical child abuse,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: sexual abuse, anything. And this was just another unique, crazy
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: thing to do. I mean, you know, there'd be porns
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and fantasies about, you know, Stacy's mom or whatever about
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: a guy screwing. There was a scene in the movie.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Was it Valley Girl or something else where, you know,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the boy, another boy has sex with his with this
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: girl's mom.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Or is that Hunting Wives?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: The Hunting Wives, they barely touched on the fact that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the woman was sleeping with her friend's son, who was
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: a senior in high school, as well as two other
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: women in the neighborhood.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: That was a story of sex addiction full on and
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: just glossed over like a cartoon. I mean, that's what
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: bothered me. I couldn't watch it because I was like,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: these are serious problems here, and they're not really talking
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: about what's going on.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that's always really bothered me about
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: that whole thing thing of like, you know, Oh, you know,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a guy got to sleep with his teacher and everything. Obviously,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you know this, but even early, early on before I
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: even had kids and with the Mary Kay Letourneau and also, um,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you know, just like when a man does it to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a young girl, it fucks you up for life. It's,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: it's such a power imbalance that even though you're the guy,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: essentially as a teenager penetrating this woman, um, It's like,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: how are you ever going to now have a normal
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: relationship with a woman or a girlfriend or whatever? And
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: there was a great show a couple years ago that
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: came out that was a scripted movie kind of based
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: on all these types of stories, but a fictional one
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: of kind of what happens to the woman and the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: teenage boy after it's over with. And he attempts to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: go to college and join a frat. and he starts
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: drinking and he gets fucked up and she goes on
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: and gets divorced and marry someone else and has two
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: more kids or whatever. And it just was so interesting.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Cause I just think people don't think about it. And
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I definitely think she was like, um, living vicariously like
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: through her daughter's world and then had weird jealousy over.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's like a number of things.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: It's one.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: It's underdeveloped. It's so primitive. So underdeveloped this part of herself. Yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: But I do. I think it's like one that she
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: was this weirdo that still wanted to be queen, be
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: in high school. And she probably didn't, wasn't popular to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: begin with and the power of being a teacher. Then
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: it was weirdly being obsessed with this teenage boy and
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: almost imagining the Probably she was probably masturbating to it.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know because the stuff was so graphic that
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: she said like very pornographic texting, right?
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: She's drunk at home doing this stuff. It all kind
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: of goes together.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe she was drunk, but I would think if she
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: was drunk, she would have said that as an excuse.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they were repackaging the alcohol. I
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: don't know what they were doing.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Maybe she's very strange. Maybe she's still drinking. Not willing
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: to look at that yet.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And then I think the other part is, um, the
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Munchausen's by proxy via cyber bullying is the same thing
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: of when you make your child sick and they're so
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: dependent on you giving them the medicine and everything. And
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: then also the attention, the sympathy you get from the neighborhood. Oh,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: that woman's a saint. I think the same thing in
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: that she would come home and be like, I can't
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: believe they're writing me this and everything. And she'd go
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: ignore it. I am here doing this, you know? And
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: also I'm like, I think it, it was maybe also,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I just thought of this now, how is she supposed
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: to do well in school? Maybe this was a way
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: for her not to go to high school, not to
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: ever leave her. I mean, not to go to college,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: like not to go to the next level and get
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: into college, um, stay home with her, with her weird
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: mother forever.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I always wonder when there's these elaborate lies,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you know, the long con, the long grift of a lie. Um,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: When does the person think, okay, just one more month,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: or how will I come clean, or I'll stop doing it,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: or what is that? How do you even.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Sleep knowing that? It's like every other addiction. It progresses.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: It's progressive, and they get the dopamine hits off this stuff.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: They're getting the addictive sort of massage, and they don't
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: anticipate the progression. That's the part that usually catches them
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: off guard, that it gets worse and worse and worse.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: And that's how they get themselves into trouble. Then the
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: lies accumulate. But I want to just drill a little
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: bit of what you're saying about the young males, because
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: people will go, oh, my God, if only I had
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: that at 16. Look at the outcome of those 16
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: and 17-year-old males, as Heather alluded to. Their outcomes are
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: horrible in terms of sociopathy, in terms of addictions, in
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: terms of being able to function in society. Outcomes, bad. Now,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the necessarily direct result of
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: the sexual abuse or these teachers select kids that are
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: at risk or both, probably sort of both. But the
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: reality is that that kind of stimulation at that age
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: shatters the upper limits of the brain. ability to regulate.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: The brain is not a whole regulatory system yet. And
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: this shatters it as Heather was, was suggesting, like, how
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: do you go from here? Where do you go? It's,
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: it's something that gets etched into their system. And if
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: they have addiction in the background, then that kind of
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: usually takes over at a because he had bad addiction
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: and he was sexually abused by an 18-year-old when he
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: was 13. I had to go. He always thought it
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: was a cool thing. And I said, you got to
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: look at that because that was not a cool thing.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: It had a real impact on you. It turns out,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: lo and behold, it really did. The other thing is
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: what you were talking about, God's plan. Whether it's God
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: or evolution, the way female systems work, human women's female systems,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: is we evolved as hunter-gatherer groups, and the men would
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: go out to hunt. Women would stay in a group.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: And in that group, they would do the childcare and
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: they would gather the food. They would do the cultural transmission, everything,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: cultural language, everything about culture and about also about cultural norms.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: And if a female in that groups jumped outside of
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: the cultural norm in some way that was threatening to
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: the wellbeing of a child or the threat to the group,
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: that woman would be ostracized. And ostracism back when we
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: were hunter gatherer groups, meant death. You and your child
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: potentially could be ostracized out into the brush, the bush,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: and the group's not going to support you or protect
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: you anymore or get you food. And so ostracism or,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: you know, what ends up being sort of judgment or,
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: you know, is a very powerful, and gossip too is
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: part of that. These are very powerful instruments that maintain
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: cultural norms that are potentially healthy.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: God, and it really does all go back to Real Housewives.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could have just described... Real housewives of
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: caveman era or something.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: It's why there aren't men groups of this. There is
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: a man's whatever group of housewives or whatever it is.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: There is no equivalent in the male.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think if all of a sudden guys
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: just kind of like either they get over it and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the friendship lasts or they're like, eh, that guy kind
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: of bugs. And then they don't ever call them again.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: They're not like, what's he doing now? Did he have
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: a golf party without me? Why would he? I mean,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It's just completely different. It's
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, whatever.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: And we look at that as a total waste of time. Like,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: it's confusing to us. Like, if you hit the guy,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: go talk to him. Fight with him, whatever. Let's get
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: through this. And fine, have the fight. Establish your boundaries.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: Decide what we're going to do. We're going to be
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: friends or not. And off we go. That's it. That's it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: And this goes back to another phenomenon in evolution called
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: rough and tumble play, that all mammalian XY entities manifest.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Somewhere in late childhood and certainly during adolescence, XYs, males, mammals,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: start beating the shit out of each other. And it's
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: a way of expressing and then regulating aggression. It's a
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: way of coming to understand what the limits of aggression
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: are in relating to men. And we come to understand
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: that we're always in harm's way, There's always a potential
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: of violence and we know how to kind of regulate
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: it with our peers.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I, so I think that's so interesting, but
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: also like with this woman, like the fact that she
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: would just see her daughter and then in fact, she
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: did succeed. They did break up and the daughter, you know, but.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Again, that's the other part of this cult of two. She,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: she's once control. She wants to D she wants fusion
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: and control. and to sort of be a part of
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: is the way you're building this case, and I think
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: that's probably true. And then she wants to be seen
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: as the martyr, right? I'm the one that's going to
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: save this child. The school isn't doing enough. You know,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. I was thinking as I was reading about
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: this case that I've seen this exact same thing with
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: men who marry young women. Very old men, the young
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: woman becomes the savior. No one's able to take care
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: of them the way I can. No doctor is good enough.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: And I've been through some cases like that where you
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: just go, oh boy, this is sort of that same phenomenon.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: That is interesting because I've noticed that too with people
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: that are, it's a big age difference and they're like
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the second, third or whatever, fourth wife. And as a
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: first wife, it's like, it's so interesting how much they
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: cater to that husband. So like if you're around a
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: bunch of women that have been married 20 years or whatever,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: and then there's that one that's like, Well, it's 4.30
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: and Brian is coming home. So he likes it when
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I'm there. And I'm just like, what? Like, why would
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: you be rushing home? Like there's so, I've seen it
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: happen so many times where, you know, or even I'll
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: see it like in-house wise with certain wives that are
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: like really, oh, I'm just so, we're just so in love.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And I want, sometimes I wonder if they're overcompensating because
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: they are a public figure and, They don't want people
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: to think it's a gold digger, May, December romance that
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: it's real. And we're, we're just attached to the hip
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: and we're just so in sync and you know, that
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: type of thing. But it's interesting about caring because that's
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: also happened with Casey Kasem.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, interesting.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: With his wife, Donna Dixon. And I, a couple of
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: years ago interviewed his daughters and it was really a
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: case of where they couldn't see their dad and They
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: didn't feel like he was being cared for. It was
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: such like a, you know, parental child alienation, but from
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: a stepmother's point of view versus a parent. And yeah, it's.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Well, in my experience with it, there's often a lot
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: of money at issue. The grandstanding and the caretaking, you know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: sort of drama is to impress the family. Look, nobody
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: cares about your father the way I do. And then
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: inevitably the family goes, what's up with this woman? And
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: they start to come in and that's when the alienation occurs.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: So that's when, that's when they go all in to
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: keep the kids out. And usually there's, these children usually
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: have a substantial stake in this, always a man. I've
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: never seen it. Well, there was a, do you remember
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: there was a woman, remember her name, last name was Ray,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: I think, a famous comedic actress who had this gigolo
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: when she was like 90 years old. And the scene
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: kind of, what was her name? something Ray.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I know who you mean though.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And it was like a young guy that looked not straight.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: It was her boyfriend or whatever.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think there's, you know,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: gigolo grifters on all both sexualities or whatever, both genders in,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: in your work, has anyone ever really recovered and said,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: this is why I started doing Munchausen's and I, Really?
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: And I did know that my child wasn't sick and
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I proceeded to do it because just like this girl,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: this woman, she got sympathy within the neighborhood. She always
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: had something to talk about. She had an alliance with
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Owen's mother. And that's why Owen's mother was so shocked
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: because she was like, we would like commiserate about this
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: and we try to figure it out. And they weren't
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the only victims. in trying to figure it out, there
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was a girl named Chloe that they thought, you know,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: did it because she liked him too and was on
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: the basketball team. Also his cousin who was kind of
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: like a nerdy girl. And she's like, I didn't even
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: have any friends. And I was being accused of doing
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: this to my own cousin, writing disgusting sexual stuff. And
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: so there were all these other victims, but Getting back
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: to my initial question, have you ever heard that someone
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: actually admits it and walks you through it of why
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: they did it?
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: The answer is yes, I have, but it is not routine.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: And when I see it get better, it's when people
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: are faced with serious loss, like losing everything, including their freedom.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: But in this case, this woman's already faced all that,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: and now she's kind of on the other side of it.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: So I don't know if it's a motivating factor for her.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: The other, and part of it when I see it,
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: is also part of addiction, where addiction is threatening their life,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: where their addiction is so bad, their life itself is
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: at issue here, and they must change. And then when
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: they have to do the work of change, when they're
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: motivated to do it, it's hard work, they end up
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: back where I was telling you a few minutes ago,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: which was they're disgusted by their behavior. There's no excuse
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: for their behavior. They have to make amends, which is
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: not just apologizing to all these victims, but making it right.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: doing things to make it right for that person without
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: harming them. So they have to be fully, fully aware
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: of the depths of the depravity of the behavior and
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: be as disgusted and as stricken as anybody else. But
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: it's hard for them to go there. And depending on
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: how fragile her personality is, she may not be able
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: to do it. And certainly, if she were going to
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: engage in some long-term treatment process, expensive. And she may
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: not have that either.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I also think it's just so fascinating. The reaction of
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: mothers to this is because there's those shitty mothers of
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: teenage girls, weird dynamics where they're jealous. We'll hear about,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you know, something like, oh, is that what you're going
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: to wear, honey? Oh, it's wonderful that you're so brave
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: to show your arms and the girl's like a little
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: fatter or whatever. And it's like, it's stuff like that.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, Oh God, you know? And then, um,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's why, you know, there's always a challenge of,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you know, or the, the mother tries to upstage the
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: daughter or the daughter in law at the wedding, you know,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: and it's like wearing white or too big of a
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: dress or it's, it's, I think it's just like, that's
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: really weird and then also I think in this day
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: and age I mean I'm you know with the like
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: anonymous hate that happens on the internet and but then
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: there's a deeper level where someone who's you think is
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: your friend. And this has been found out whether it's
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: in housewives world, my own world, other people's world. And
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: they really are the ones behind the bots. And it's really,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: it's what Blake Lively is actually accusing Justin Baldoni of.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: And then he's coming back and saying, no, you did it,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: which is to incite online hate for another person. whether
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: it's hiring bots or sending nasty articles or tips to
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: then get people to go, oh, this is the horrible
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: woman and this is the horrible housewife. And then they
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: find out it was all made up or it was
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: actually my friend or my frenemy. And I'm like, what
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: if I found out one of my worst consecutive haters
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: for years was one of my kids? How fucking weird
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: would that be? Like, you'd be like, what? I don't
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: even know how to go on. Like, how do you
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: even explain this? Like, I definitely think frenemies do this.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: You might have thought they were a friend and they
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: were actually a frenemy or an enemy. And they actually
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: are on these pages anonymously or sometimes even as themselves. And,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: you know, and I just am like, the fact that
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: she would do this and to such an excessive amount
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: i'm not saying once in three weeks they hop on
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the the hate page out of curiosity i'm saying like
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: this woman did it over and over and over again
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: for two years to like a vulnerable girl and just
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: watching her come home and crying and and again that
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: the dad and nobody said let's does she really need
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: a phone Like not to punish her, but like at
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: a certain point, does everyone really fucking need a phone?
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: No, no. That's that's again, you've got great parenting instincts.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: And so that's, of course, numero uno. That is the
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: number one cause of distress in adolescence is the screen,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: the phone. And I have friends that work just with
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: adolescent females, say, and their kids, they only allow them
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: an hour to two hours per day, period. And it's
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: carefully structured. That's it, period. And the kids fight like hell.
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: But when you see the consequences so much, it's like
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: somebody who's working in that field, it's easier to set
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: that limit. And those kids always end up thanking their
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: parent for having done so.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just saw a thing where this kid was
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: saying that they're not allowing phones at the high school,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: whatever high school.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: He goes to.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: That's essential. The fact that we allow phones at high
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: school is just the most insane thing in the world.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: In 2000, and like, well, my daughter was at her
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: high school, which is all girl. She graduated in 2017,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: so she was there for those four years. They did
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: not allow them to have the phone. I don't know
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: if they do now. They did not allow them to
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: have the phone. You'd have to put it in your locker.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: You could check it, like if there was a message.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I think you could check it. I'm not even sure.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: But you couldn't have it on your person, not even
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: on your person, not just turn it off.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: But then, like I think at my son's school later on,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: they kind of said, no, they use it for school
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: and da-da-da. And that's what these people were saying. like
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: they use it for school.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, with AI now it's going to be even worse, but,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: but there's gotta be a way to structure that. Like, okay,
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: pull out your phone now, just the way we used
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: to pull out a calculator.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Pull it out now. Now you can use it. You know,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: that's it. That's all you gotta do. It's, it's, it's look,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: you've got to treat it like a dangerous, you know,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: like tobacco or anything else. We will look at this
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: like tobacco one day.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Uh, and well, it's a simple thing. Like, you know,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: when people like, will say, oh, what's a tip to
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: meet somebody? Oh, go to a bar and talk to
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: the bartender. I go, but the thing is, is that
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: if you're alone at the bar waiting for your friend
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: to join you, you aren't looking around and being like, hello, sir,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: what's good to eat here? No, you're not going to
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: get hit on because everyone is going to have the
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: crux of looking at their phone and doing business or
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: pretending to do business. And so people just aren't like meeting.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: And the same thing goes on at school. Like now
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: you can easily just go eat by yourself. Remember when
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: we were in school, like there's nothing worse than like
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: having your food and not being able to find your group.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: And then you were like, Oh my God, do I
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: just have to go? Like, do I have to go
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: to my car and pretend I have something to do?
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Like there, and that's sad and terrible, but at least
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: there was an effort on the person's part to like
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: engage in some type of.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: No. Yeah. Listen, I saw a little video online of
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: a sort of lunchtime in a 70s or 80s environment.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: And it's all these little groups of kids all over
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: the place, you know, talking, socializing, eating. And that that
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: when I think back on that, it's like, oh, yeah,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: it's completely normal. But but there's a gigantic difference between
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: adolescents in the relationship with the phone and adults in
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: their relationship with phone.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: The adult thing, the bar situation you just described. I've
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: had friends kicked out of bars for years. interrupting a
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: woman on the phone and asking, you know, would you
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: like a drink or can I talk to you? Literally
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: kicked out for being a toxic, threatening, made her uncomfortable male.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Right. And then that's, yeah, that's why they then don't
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: approach anybody.
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: I know. Where's all the men? Why don't they ever
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: approach anymore? They are so carefully ground down by this situation.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And if you're a young man and you haven't yet
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: developed the skill for this, holy shit, it's just over.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: You can't do it. It's not going to happen.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was kind of thinking about that too. Cause
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if back in my day
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: in like the sorority fraternity world, and maybe they do
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: that if you're at one of these big type of
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: schools that are popular with it, I would, maybe the
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: reason that so many guys were players is because they
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: were kind of taught to be players in the sense
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: of approach a girl, get their number, ask them out,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: get them a drink. Like if you don't practice that
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: skill like anything else, then you're not, You don't learn
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: how to do it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: You don't learn how to tolerate rejection. You don't understand
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: who you are in relationships. You don't know how to
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: form a date, form a relationship, break a date. You
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: don't know how to do any of that stuff. And
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: it's all scary and dangerous. You're going to be accused
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: of being a rapist, of being a toxic male. The
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: men are just confused and they're just pulling away and
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: they're going back with their porn and that's it. And
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: they're just not even trying because they've been told that
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: it's dangerous and there's something wrong with them for wanting
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: to try it. And, you know, it's funny, Weinstein, Harvey
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Weinstein used that same defense. He was like, well, that's
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: just what we did in the 70s. It's like, yes,
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: there was an excessive, actually an excessive push for men
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: to do that kind of thing. And it was sort
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: of things were out of control in the 70s. But
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: to have some sort of happy medium is where we
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: want to get.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Going back to this, why do you think she
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: would agree to then go on camera and be part
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: of this documentary? First, I thought maybe she was compensated,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. And until I find out they
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: were or they weren't, like they got whatever, $ 300, 000 to
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: be part of it. Well, two things. But I don't
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: think that they do.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Well, I would be surprised if she didn't get something. Okay.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: But we'll see. If someone knows, please let me know
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: if they did. Number two. Because I'm just kind of curious,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: or do they think, again– an image of themselves where
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: they don't think that they did something that bad. And
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: then therefore I can turn it around and tell my
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: story like Jussie Smollett or Sherry Papini or whatever.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Correct. I think, and never underestimates people desire to be
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: on TV. It's unbelievable. People will just, they want to
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: be on TV so badly. It's they'll do crazy shit
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: to get on TV. So she, if she gets paid,
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: wants to be on TV and thinks she can make
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: her case. If she really were, you know, experiencing what
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: she had done, it'd be a long time before she'd
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: want to get out there and talk about it. It'd
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: be a long time.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think you're right. I think it's about wanting,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: what she did was a way to bring attention onto
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: her as the victim's mother and their family and everything
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: in this small town. So yeah, I think when women
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: are attention seeking, again, the attention of being the coach,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: being in charge, being at the center of the, like,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: in front of a classroom, being, being able to tell
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: people what to do like that is, you know, some
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: people go and, and try to be, you know, an
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: actor or whatever. And then other people with that same
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: desire for attention go in other careers. And if they're
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a bad person at the root, which I believe she is,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: then it's a gateway to fuck over a whole different
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: group of people.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: Let's explore that a little further because attention seeking the
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: way women do it is a little confusing to me.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: Like as a male, I have trouble quite getting my
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: head around it. Men seek, not that men don't seek attention,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: it's just a different way. They do it very, very differently.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: And I feel like, you tell me if this is
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: true and please juicy scoopers, I'm prepared to be wrong
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: on this, so set me straight because I'm not a woman,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: turns out. That something about the male gaze is is
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: woven into that need for attention. You know what I mean? Definitely.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: So explain to me what that is. As a man,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: I can't get my head around it. And some women,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: they lose control of that. It becomes like they need it.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: And I think this woman has some of that stuff
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: going on in there too. But could you tell me more?
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that something that clicked with me not
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: that long ago is how much media romantic movies series
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: tv which is what we grew up with not the
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: internet just regular storytelling movies would infiltrate our thoughts and
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: make us think that this was a reality And there
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: were so many romantic comedies and whatnot. That's about.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Well, but why didn't men get infected by that? You
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: know what I mean?
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: They're the ones writing it. That's what I was going
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: to say. I found out later that.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: It's gay men writing it.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: No, but a lot of the... What I like to
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: call the dry bar comedies, which are the ones from
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: the 2000s that they play when you get your hair
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: blown out at a dry bar.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: A lot of them are straight men. Okay. And they're
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: just following a formula of... and where the girl that
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: has um the a type personality and is working in
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: advertising she's gorgeous but she's wearing glasses so she's ugly
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: and then she also is always tripping and falling because
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: they're lazy it's lazy comedy writing but this is what
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: got greenlit until like we realized wow you know what
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: was really fucking funny bridesmaids written by women like And
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: now we're like, OK, but for so long we would
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: see that. And part of it was the girl would
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: walk in and she would, you know, be so quiet
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and shy. And then the hot guy would notice her
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: across the room. And then, you know, and then, oh,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: he'll like me. Guys don't notice the quiet girl in
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the corner. You know, they don't. You need to go
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: right up and push your boobs against him and act
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: like you're getting a drink and have eye contact with
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: them and let them know that you like them. It
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: is not that. But it's this weird fantasy that you're like, oh,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: you know, if I'm demure, if I act like this,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I kill.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: But listen, this is another feature that Christina P. pointed
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: out to me once, and I had no idea this
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: was a thing, is that women have a motivational system
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: around being chosen. I want to be chosen. We don't
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: want to be chosen. Not unless it's on the football team,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: and then we want to be chosen right up front
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: because we're good. That's it. But this choose me thing
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: amongst other women, that's a pretty much, that's a weird,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: interesting motivational system.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I do think, I think it could
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: be a little bit less now, you know, with the,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: the newer generations of women, but yeah, it was always,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, Cinderella, it's like my generation was like,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: you know, you wanted to get married and, by 30
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: so that you could not have difficulty getting pregnant. And
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: this was kind of the routine. Then with the millennials,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: it was like, no, you don't have to do it
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: or you can wait. Now with Gen Z, I feel
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: like it's this weird thing where it's going back to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: trad wives and it's making sourdough bread from scratch. And
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like, there was an expression that was, it's the
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: best thing since sliced bread for a reason. We didn't
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: want to make our bread from scratch. Who the fuck
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: wants to waste all day making bread from scratch? But
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: you see it with this girl, Ballerina Farms, and like, oh,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: and this other woman, oh, I was craving a hamburger.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: So I killed the cow and then picked the wheat.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: And they do this whole thing, and they kind of
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: know it's like, obviously, they're not really doing this all themselves,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and they're doing it all in a day, and there's
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: a production team around it. But it's just, I don't know.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: It's like this weird thing that so often now these girls,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: just like we were wanting to have that wedding in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: New York because we watched my best friend's wedding and
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: all these brides, always bridesmaids, whatever those were, 27 dresses,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: all those things. We kind of wanted it. They now
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: are seeing it and want this other thing of like,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I just want to have like babies and like live
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: on a farm and have my husband just think I'm,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: you know, great. And that's scary too. And then there's
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: women that are like, uh, yeah. And what happens when you're,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: you know, you're 40 and your kids are gone and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: you know, your husband is cheating on you and nothing's
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: in your name or you hate your husband and there,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: and there's no way for you to protect, you know,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: like that's, there's a balance of like, you know, it's
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: interesting because they're like, Oh my God, who sold us the,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: this fake goods of how great it is for women's rights. Like,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: you know, 50 years ago, you didn't have to have
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: a job and it was like kind of nice. And
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: now it's like, if you don't have a job or
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: it's just a, it's just, it's just, yeah, it's, it
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: is such a weird thing. And it's just very much,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: we're two different, completely different.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: And is it, is it going? Yeah, no, for sure.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: But is it going to be that, um, women are
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: going to have to sort of pick their poison, like
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: you're going to be a career person, or that's going
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: to be your focus, or you're going to be a mom,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: that's going to be your focus, or is there a
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: realistic balance that most women can achieve?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: No. No. I don't know. I don't know. I mean,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: you cannot have it all. You can have it most,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: but you cannot have it all. And you will have regrets.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: You will have regrets.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: I shared the podium once with a woman who wrote
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: a book, she went out to write a book about
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: the most successful women in America. And she wanted to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: know what these women had in common with one another.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: So it was Diane Sawyer and Oprah and all these women.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: She interviewed like 20 of them or 30 of them.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: And she said, you know, I can only find one
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: thing in common of the women I interviewed. These were like,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: you know, really successful captains of industry and things. And
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: she said they were all childless and they were all
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: pissed because they were told that Do that whenever you want.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: You can do that part later. Don't worry about it.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Of course, window closes. And so, I don't know. I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: almost feel like I hope that fertility technology helps women
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: with that. Because you can freeze your eggs. You can
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: freeze your embryos. You can do these things. You can
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: then wait later than we used to be able to.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: It's some risk.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: I think freezing your eggs is the greatest thing you
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: can do. For life insurance just for yourself.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: And I would also say to be careful about just
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: having the eggs and maybe not doing the frozen embryos
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: because– Even if it's like you might not want to
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: be with that person later on. Then you have the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Sofia Vergara situation.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: The embryos have a whole bunch of ethical issues associated
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: with them, moral issues. And you can avoid that by
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: getting your eggs early, by the way. The healthy eggs,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: there's an optimal window for that.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: I will say, because people are going to be mad
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: what you said, that this woman did a study that said,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: childless and and pissed they're gonna say i love being
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: childless and all that and i believe that that's i
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: believe it and i do not judge i believe one
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: of the things i think jerry seinfeld said was like
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: i think the greatest thing that god did was like
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: if you choose not to have kids you don't know
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: what you're missing because you won't know it you won't
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: know it yeah and so on the other hand you
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: won't know the stress the worry the fact that the
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: job never fucking ends You can never retire. It's just
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: when you think things are going well, it's not.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: Wait till you have grandkids. It just starts all over again.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: You're always going to worry about are they happy with
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: their spouse? Are they happy with their job? Are they happy? Because,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: you know, again, getting back to why people are so
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: infuriated about this awful woman is because we do care
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: so much about our children's mental health and their happiness.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Our biggest fear for anybody in this day and age
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: is that their child would end their life.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: And, you know, so for the fact that she was
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: saying it over and over to her again, what do
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: you think? And then we'll wrap it up.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Wait, before you ask me that question, let me just
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: comment something you said about the childless women. I think
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: women today who choose not to have children and pursue
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: active careers are are probably not pissed because I think
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: they understand what they're doing. My point was in that
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: previous generation, really essentially boomers, they didn't get it. And
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: they were pissed that they were sold a bill of goods,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: that they could. That's what they were pissed about. But listen,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: I welcome all types. I welcome it all, everybody. I'm
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: a moderate in all things and I And I, and
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: I love the human experience and I love that we
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: have different ways of leaving our lives, but, um, thriving
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: is our, is our objective. You know, Aristotle said that
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: thousands of years ago, human thriving, flourishing, that's what we
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: should look for. And you've got to decide what that
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: means for you.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Right. And I think it's interesting because it's like, wait,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: so let me go. Okay. Let me just go. Cause
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: we got, I know you have to leave.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: Okay. So I'm in no hurry, by the way. I'm
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: pretty good.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I thought you said you'd be done at one.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: So anyway.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: Not necessarily.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: I love that you just love me so much. So
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: what do you think for this girl, Lauren? Because one,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: I did this impression of the woman because she just
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: made me so mad and that's what I do. And
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: she is an awful person and she chose to go
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: on this doc. So I have no sympathy. But one comment,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: and of course, I only like to focus on the
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: negative comments. One comment was, take this down immediately. That
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: poor girl, Lauren, has suffered enough. How dare you make
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: fun of this? And I'm like, first of all, I
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: didn't make fun of Lauren, the daughter. I was making
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: fun of this. I wasn't making fun. I was doing
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: an impression.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: And of this annoying woman who's awful. And I do
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: kind of worry about this girl and there is something
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: very primal. I know about a child wanting to be
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: with her mother, forgiving their mother and all of that.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: But I mean, can do imagine if she gets a
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: husband and she's like, can't my mom come over and babysit?
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, when would you ever let your guard down
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: and think she's okay?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Never.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: That's what I say. Never.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Never. She's done enough damage that even if she's into
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: a glorious recovery and it's years down the road, I'd
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: still have supervision. She's still a sick person. And she
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: still could have slips. That's all. Learn from all this.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: We can all do better. I'm sure I can do better.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: That's for sure. And make sure this is on Patreon, Heather.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we might have to sell this on Patreon. But no,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: this was really fascinating. I'm so glad that you kind
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: of weighed in on the... you know, the mental psychology
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: of someone that does something like this. And I wonder
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: if we're going to discover more or if this would
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: be any kind of a wake-up call to the people
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: that were sitting at home that do hide behind a
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: keyboard and torment someone they may know or is in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: their group or whatever. And maybe they'll realize like, shit,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: I could be found out. And how humiliating if I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: was and I should stop. I mean, I do think
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: it's an illness. I do think it's an addiction.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, even for me in sometimes where I'd want
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: to see like the negative stuff and I really treated
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: it almost like I'm giving that up, like I'm giving
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: up alcohol or chocolate or whatever. And if you don't
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: see it, it really does change. You will have happier days.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: If you can protect yourself from seeing it or blocking
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: people or whatever, it is so freeing and you will
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: have a pep in your step that you didn't before.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: No matter how much you tell yourself like, oh, it
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't bother me and I have a tough skin. When
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: you read, you know, you anorexic flat ass like this
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: poor girl did over and over again. You're a piece
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: of shit. Everyone wishes you would die. Things like that.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: It just you feel like the whole world hates you.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: You don't realize what a small percentage it is. And
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: who are these people anyway? You don't know.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: That's right. I agree wholeheartedly with you. It depletes your
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: soul by engaging in this behavior. It's not good for us.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: It certainly doesn't add to our flourishing and is certainly
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: hurting other people. But I think a way to think
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: about it is, conduct your life in such a way
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: as though there's a video camera running at all times.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: And you could look at that video and feel good
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: about what you saw. And the reality is we live
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: in the kind of world where that's essentially what's happening.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Every story you go into every, I remember there
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: was that episode of black mirror just a few years
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: ago with, I think it was Bryce Dallas. Is that
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: her name? The one that's Ron Howard's daughter. And it was,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: you know, future, but not too far in the future
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: where everywhere she went, she got like a personality rating,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: not like just like a FICO score, but instead for
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: your personality. So, you know, along with leaving a tip,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: they would then, the barista would rate you on how
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: delightful you were. And somehow some bad things happened and
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: some gossip started and her number went down. And then
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: her friend was like, you can't be in my wedding
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: and you can't. And now you, you lost this apartment
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, because you are not the, and so
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: it was very, Very true. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Drew.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: And you have always so much going on and so much,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: so many shows. So in case people don't know where
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: you've been since Loveline, where can they listen?
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: The thing to watch now is, you know, sign up
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: my website, dr.com. Follow me on X at Dr.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Drew.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: Susan, my wife produces a streaming show on Tuesday, Wednesday,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Thursday at two o'clock. That really is sort of the
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: focus right now of what I'm doing. We're interviewing very,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: very interesting people. and show up there. Well, you can
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: get it on. If you can follow on X, we
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: put a blast out at two o'clock before, as the
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: show is released. It's live. It's fun.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Awesome. All right. Thank you so much.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you. The juicy scoopers. I really, and, and I,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: I welcome your feedback, not your abuse, but your feedback.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: And I'll try to adjust my point of view based on,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: I will learn something from your community because they are
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: really a very rich, interesting, smart group of people that,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: that follow you. I, I, like I said, I, I
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: meet them all over the place and you've got quite
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: a community there. So please do give me your feedback,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: but I'm here to change. I'm here to take it.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you got it.
• 1:14:21
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