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Oli Marmol Addresses Cardinals Clubhouse Culture · Kenny Wallace Media

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And on the line with us is the Cardinals manager, Ollie Marmal.
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Thanks so much for taking some time.
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When we had John Mazelak on couple of weeks ago, he said,
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you know I'm trying to not talk about 2023.
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Where are you at at this point coming off the warm up where a
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lot of the questions I'm sure we're still about last year.
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When when did you get to sort of flush that from your mind?
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Oh man. I mean a lot of fans have
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questions about it. So you want to make sure you
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answer every question possible and but mentally, like you go
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through the offseason, you start to dissect what went wrong, what
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you did well, what you didn't do well and start to lay out what
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the adjustments will be moving forward for for the upcoming
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year. So you you flush that out and
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you start thinking about what's possible for 2024.
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I think the winter warm up actually serves as a good time
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for hitting the reset button and I said it during during the
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pressure there. It's it's a time where fans kind
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of get excited because players fly in, players are excited,
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fans are excited and you start to talk about what's possible
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moving forward. So hopefully that serves as the
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the time where you hit the reset button and you flush what's
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what's behind us and you start eyeing what's ahead.
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How do you decipher what you what you think you didn't do
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well? Do you ask?
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Other people do. Does MO or the dewitts who do?
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Is it just internally? Do you look at games?
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How do you figure that out? A combination of everything that
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you just laid out and you you have certain people that you
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trust and speak into it and people that are are not afraid
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to to tell you exactly what they see.
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And that's the only way to get better.
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And there's certain things that were in our control and in my
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control and certain things out of my control.
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And you want to make sure that you you separate those and you
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really look in the mirror for the things that you're in
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control of and make sure that that you don't repeat them.
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And I think part of kind of how I evaluate every year and then
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I'll allow people to to speak into maybe some blind spots and
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that's always helpful. Teams struggle, it happens, and
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then teams turn it around. It was there a point where
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because everybody by nature is going to be optimistic.
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That's on the team or running the club.
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Was there a point where you said, oh, man, OK, it's not
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happening? Like, I'm sure even as the
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struggles carried out, you kept thinking for a long time, I'm
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sure, All right, we're going to go on a streak.
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We're going to turn around. You just not only do you say
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that, I feel like you believe it.
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Was there a point that when you said OK, it's it's just not
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happening? Oh, man, I can't pinpoint the
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exact time where it's like, all right, but I mean, once you sell
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off certain pieces that you're not trying to, I mean, you're
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not really optimistic about making a run.
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And then if you look at the end of the year and does it look
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awful, you lost 91 games? Absolutely.
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Does some of the moves that were made in order to position
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ourselves for the future of this organization kind of play into
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that? Absolutely.
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We lost 91. But if you look at what we
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finished a year with compared to what we started the year with,
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there's a big difference there. So you make certain moves that
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are important and we got a really good return.
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If you look at our minor league system and what we got for some
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of the players that we dished out to other clubs, it worked.
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So unfortunately we had to make those moves.
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But at the end of the year, you're just trying to survive A.
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Lot of the moves this offseason, certainly pitching, but I think
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John Mazzella can build a wit. Have all said, we're looking for
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guys with a certain DNA, maybe even that clubhouse voice or
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edginess or however you want to define it.
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How do you know when you need that?
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Because I remember, I think it was Larusso it's Adam go in
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there. That's their room.
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When you're the bench coach, you kind of walk through the
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clubhouse a lot, right? But when you're a manager, you
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try and kind of leave that to them.
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Explain to folks that dynamic and if it changes for you when
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you become the manager. No, you you actually said it
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well, when you're the bench coach, you you have more of the
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ability to walk through that clubhouse and and you're making
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sure everyone has what they need your sounding board for, for a
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lot of those players and your mediator between the player and
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and the manager for for some of the things that can be resolved
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before hitting my desk. So at the bench coach, you're
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constantly, you have the pulse of that clubhouse.
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As a manager, you have the pulse of the clubhouse, but you rely
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on your bench coach, too, to really draw it out of the
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player. If there's something that
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they're not happy with, or something they need or something
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they see that they want to dress with another player, that they
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don't want to handle themselves. So it's a Tony's point that the
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players, he manages the game, the players manage that
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clubhouse. And to the point MO has made, he
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wanted to inject certain voices in that clubhouse to help.
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And when you no longer have Albert, you don't have yati, you
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don't have Wayno as players, then you want to make sure that
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you supplement it with guys that have been around, that have
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experienced the the ups and downs of being a big leader,
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that have been punched in the face and and have made it
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through and and know how to react to things not going well
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and and how to carry yourself when things are going well.
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So the addition of a Sunny Gray and Lane Slam and Gibson, like
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those guys have experienced all the things that I've just laid
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out, and each one of them have a different personality that are
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going to speak life into that clubhouse.
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So the moves that MO and his group have made have been
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strategic. There's a purpose behind every
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one of them and the puzzle pieces are fault.
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I mean, it's looking really good right now.
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It's been a good offseason. How much was Molina?
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Not in your ear, but vocal and people forget.
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They think, oh, you're the new manager.
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You've been on that staff since 2017, so you've been in that
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cardinal dugout now for the past seven years.
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How involved is Molina as a player?
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Was he typically, in terms of game, not managed but just kind
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of weighing in on things? Was he pretty vocal even in your
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first year managing? Not, not extremely vocal.
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We had a really good working relationship where where he can
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come in after the 4th inning and say, hey, here's what I'm seeing
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and find ways to navigate that starting pitcher, that reliever
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through through a game. But as far as like he wasn't as
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vocal as you may think. He picked his spots and he was
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good about it. I I I really enjoyed the back
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and forth with Yadi. I mean, I I I loved it.
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Even days he wasn't playing like just just being able to talk
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baseball with them. I enjoyed the heck out of this,
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but he would pick his spot where he felt really strong about
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something. He would say, hey, here's what
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I'm thinking, but he was, he was very smart about when he he
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would do that. And he was interested in coming
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back. And I, from everything I had
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heard, you know, he wanted to do the day-to-day.
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And I think the more you get closer to that, he like, Are you
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sure you want to do this? But it sounds like he is He
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wants to be as much in as he can.
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I didn't realize until MO told us this that he could actually
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sit on the bench in uniform when he's at a home stand or a road
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game. What do you think that'll be
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like since he's not officially a coach?
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I said I have this in my head. I see him barking at the Cubs
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across the diamond or yelling at the umpire and they're like,
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wait a minute, what are you doing back here?
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How do you think this is? How do you think this is going
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to play out? No, I had a ton of back and
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forth with yacht and and man. My goal was to bring a man and
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him be here day-to-day, like every day.
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And as we got closer and closer and the more we talked, we have
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to respect the fact that he's been away from his family for
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two decades and he deserves the ability to make his own schedule
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and be at home for his son and and his kids and his wife and
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and kind of do regular life. And the more we talked, the
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timing for Yad and his family just wasn't ideal.
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I I think. I mean, he's recently removed
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from the game and there's a part of him that that still wants to
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be home and I wanted to be super respectful of that, no different
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than with Holiday. He, he made the choice and I
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respected to be with his family and he's been away for so long.
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Yadi was no different. So my goal was to have Yadi here
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every day, and at some point that that might be the case.
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But right now he owes it to his family to be home more often
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than not. I remember early on reporting
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that that was the case, that that's what he wanted.
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And everybody said, oh, you're an idiot, he's not going to.
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Why would he do that? He's got all that money.
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And I said you don't understand. I'm not saying I would do it if
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I were him. I'm just saying you have to
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understand his DNA that like he he thinks he owes it to the
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game. He's just obsessed with the
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game. Speak a little bit about that
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because people I think look at it, he made all that money.
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He lives far away. It's just he's different, right,
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that at some point he does want to be.
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He wants to do it. More about the passion.
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I mean he's passionate about the game.
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He's passionate about teaching. He's and that's the reason you
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do this right. It's a big sacrifice.
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Like, I mean the months of that we're in the season, I see my
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kids very, very little. I see my wife.
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I mean I hang out with the the team and the coaches way more
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than my family and it's a big sacrifice and you do it every
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year. So you do it because you're
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passionate about leading your passion about teaching, you're
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passionate about the game and this is what how he's built.
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So at some point I do see him back in uniform and doing it and
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doing it extremely well because it's, I mean that's his comfort,
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that's where he feels at home and he loves doing it.
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So at some point it'll it'll be the case and we'll take as much
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as him as as he's willing to to give early on.
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Holly Marvel, our guest, the Cardinals manager, spring
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training right around the corner and I know we flushed 2023.
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Give me your optimism for next year and and kind of what it's
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based on, I think, Mr. DeWitt said the other day.
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Hey, everything that could go wrong did and for a lot of years
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around here, everything that could go right did.
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Is it as simple as that or where do you guys need to be better?
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Yeah. I don't want to completely
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simplify, but there's a lot of truth to that.
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If you look at the last 10 years, I mean different things
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have happened throughout the course of the season that allow
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you to to get into the playoffs and and take your shot.
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And I mean I was a part of that 17 game run in order to sneak in
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that one year and then just things worked out in a positive
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way. And last year we we never we
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never got into that stride where where it felt right.
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And when you when you think about optimism for 24, it's not
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just like a different year and we'll see how it turns out.
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It's when you look at our offense, I feel really good
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about where we're at. There we have some some veteran
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leadership and some that duel at the corners with Goldie and
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Notto. But you also you have some young
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guys in Walker and Wind that are going to create a lot of
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memories for this fan base. But you add another year of
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experience to Gorman and that's a scary bat.
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You had another year of experience to new Bar and him
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understanding what the league looks like and being more
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comfortable with what he can and cannot do with his approach.
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And Donovan's going to be healthy.
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And Eddie, I think you look at our offense and it's a lot to
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get excited about. Then you look at our pitching
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and the moves that have been made not only in the rotation
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and guys that could eat innings and give you some length, but in
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that bullpen some of the moves that have been made.
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I mean, I'm really happy with some of the swimmers that we'll
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have that in the in the back end of our pen.
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So that's helpful. But then defense, that's a
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that's a big deal and you're going into this year a little
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bit different than last year, hopefully when comes to camp and
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wins that job. But you have a solid plus
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defending shortstop which allows you to put a plus defender in
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center field and you want to be strong up the middle.
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And that's that's not, that's not something that we were proud
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of last year was our defense. So there's some changes there
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that are going to allow for more stability.
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Walker's been working extremely hard and right and we're seeing
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improved version of of him. A healthy new bar that can play
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left every day is going to be important as well.
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And you go around and and you feel better about just guys
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showing up to the park knowing what they're going to play.
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You still have versatility and Donovan and daddy, but throwing
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that in center field every day is helpful.
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Having to win it short every day can be helpful.
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So that in itself solidifies that defense.
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So we can sit here all day and talk about paying attention to
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the small things and doing the small things better, but person
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now as a whole, if you just look at that like that's an
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improvement and one that we're excited about.
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And do you think Edmond at some point, and he may not say it to
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you guys, but is thinking, all right, just pick a spot for me,
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please. Like he's been very good
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everywhere he goes. Do you think he'd like to settle
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in somewhere? Yes, but he's not like tied to
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one place where he's like, I wish I played this position
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every day. He's excited about playing field
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every day. He was excited about playing
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short. His versatility is what allows
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him to add a lot of value to this club, so he's got the right
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mindset for it. If he didn't, we wouldn't.
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We wouldn't have done all the different moves with the right
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like. If we thought it was hurting
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him, then we definitely would take a deeper look at it.
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But this is a guy that has the right mentality for it and I am
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looking forward to penciling him him in in center field every day
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and seeing what he's capable of doing.
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Yeah, I know managers probably by nature like to kind of tweak
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the line up and move it around, but for the most.
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Part, though, you say that the reality is if you had eight
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dudes every day, nine dudes that you can throw in the same spot,
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like, that's nice as well. Yeah, maybe it's two different
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things. So the lineup, maybe it's a
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different thought, but I was going to ask that How much does
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it take off your plate if you know every day?
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OK, Newt's going to be in left, Edmonds in center.
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Walker's in right. I got my short stuff.
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I got first and third cover. I got my catcher.
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And like, other than maybe the Gorman Donovan second base
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rotation, whatever that looks like, that probably does take
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some stuff off your plate if you could settle on your 8.
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Yeah, and it's it's not so much taking it off my plate as much
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as given some stability and continuity to the to the players
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mindset, right. So like, it's not so much.
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I don't view it as it takes something off my plate.
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I think it's nice as a player to be able to show up and know I'm
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hitting here in the lineup and I'm playing here and go get
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them. So yeah, having that more set,
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it's something that could be extremely beneficial moving
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forward. And with Contreras behind the
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plate now, is that pretty much his day-to-day?
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I know Herreras is going to be in the mix at times because
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there was that awkwardness last year where we know Wilson was
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going to be the catcher. Is it more cemented now?
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Yeah, it it wasn't so much awkwardness as much as we took a
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a break for him to become more accustomed to what it needed to
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look like moving forward. And he handsome extremely well.
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I have. And I said at the baseball
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writers dinner that we just had this past week.
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Like my my respect for Wilson through the roof and we have a
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really good relationship, but I respect him a ton for the way he
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handled all last year and his amount of dedication to the club
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or himself was incredible. But moving forward, yeah, he's
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working extremely hard at it. He's in Orlando every day
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working on defense and his hope and and ours is he's going to
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come back and be even a better version of himself defensively.
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And we saw what he did in the second-half.
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Offensively, it was a pretty scary bat.
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You're a young guy in this position, but you also were at
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the minor league level. Were you 25 when you first
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started managing? Sounds about right.
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I was thinking one of those first jobs.
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Has it ever been something you feel you need to overcome?
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I know we've had some umpires. We kind of got it back and forth
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with them. Does youth work against a
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manager? Does?
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I mean, do you have to work around that, Do you think, Do
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the players immediately so well? He's so young.
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Is it ever a factor? It it's never come up until I
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have to answer a question like this from you.
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Honestly, I mean it outside of media asking me about it.
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I never think about it. It never comes up from a staff
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to staff myself, the player run out.
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Like, it's never anything that has ever kind of hindered my
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ability to communicate properly with the player or the clubhouse
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or anything of that nature. So my answer would be no, not
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not really. Where does your confidence come
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from? Because I've you and I have sat
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in the dugout before. Anyone thinks you're going
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poorly. You never really kind of waver.
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Is that from childhood and on? And where?
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When did you kind of get that instilled?
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Answer. That's a really good question,
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honestly. Like, I've had some really good
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people walk next to me and do life with me and teach me what
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what matters in life. And there's there's certain
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things that control. There's certain things you're
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not. And I know my purpose on how
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this earth is much more than just the X's and O's of a of a
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game. I have a lot of confidence in my
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preparation and the people that have my back every day you're
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going to go through periods. I was able to spend a decent
18:00
amount of time after the baseball writers there with with
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Tony Larousse and it was so interesting to hear from him.
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You read about it maybe your stories from other people but
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coming out of his own mouth how difficult this job is over time
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when you do it for 10/20/30 years and the ups and downs that
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you're going to experience and how he personally navigated the
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noise and and got through it certain times and and it's good
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to hear. But having people speak into
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different situations in your life, you're able to take a step
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back and you know, you know what?
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Here's what I know I'm good at, here's what I need to work on,
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and here's how I'm gonna go about it.
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And when things are going well, great.
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And when things aren't, at least you have a really good idea of
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where you're headed and how you're wanting to get there and
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you just keep plowing through it.
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So I'm not sure how well to answer that other than I do feel
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prepared. I've had really good people walk
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alongside of me for a long time, so.
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No, it's interesting because when Tony started the White Sox,
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he was really young. And I said to him once, I said,
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did you get hammered figures? Yeah, by the media.
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Nobody else cared. And it was like.
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And that's the truth. I mean, I think it was
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broadcaster specific back then. You have to sit there and you
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have to talk for a long time, and at some point you have to
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make stuff up. And that's just the reality, is
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that like, it's you need something to talk about.
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And what's easier than to run to the fact that, hey, he's not as
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experienced, or he's young, or it's a talking point that
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honestly doesn't come up, ever, outside of these conversations?
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Did you ever worry last year that you were going to get fired
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as the losses piled up? Was it ever?
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I mean, I know at some point MO probably talks to you, but was
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it ever a thought? Listen, if if that what took
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place, it takes place like I I worry myself zero about that
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like I know. What value I bring to the
20:02
organization. If that was the answer, then it
20:04
would have happened, right? So I have a ton of respect for
20:09
our ownership in our front office for how they handled last
20:12
year. I also said this at the face
20:14
priority there because I wanted people to hear it.
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The you find out about people when you go through difficult
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times, like you really understand how people operate
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and why they operate the way they do and who they truly are.
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And I can say that in 2023, as terrible as the season that it
20:30
was, our ownership and our front office were as consistent with
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myself and my staff as they were in 2022 when we were riding the
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highs of Albert chasing 700 and wins the division by seven games
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and make the lift out for the positive year.
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Did we get beat by Philly? Absolutely.
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But they were as consistent with me and my staff and 23 as they
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were in 22 and that speaks a lot as to how they operate.
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You like hearing from fans. You're willing to do it.
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I know you've got some events coming up here where you're
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going to actually do, we'll call it meet and greet but unplug,
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taking questions. Now you realize you're opening
21:05
yourself up to the gauntlet there again.
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I think that speaks to your confidence in like they can ask
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you anything. I feel that way from a media
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standpoint that you're willing to talk about it, maybe even
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debate it. How important is that to you to
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kind of because fans can sit at home and say, this guy's the
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worst, why don't they fire him? But when they're sitting in
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front of you, I'm sure the tone is going to be different.
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But why is that important to you to to do that with the fans?
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Because you owe it to the fans that there.
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I mean, there's a reason we do this.
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I feel a great responsibility to answer questions to those that
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are tuning in every night. The watches play and I have zero
21:44
problem. You said just open yourself up
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to the gallery. I'm more than happy to do that
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and some people I just want to be able to interact and ask
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questions that are decent questions and some people want
21:58
to get after you and I'm OK with either one.
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Part of being a fan is being passionate and when things don't
22:03
go well you're you're passionate about why didn't go well.
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So I'm OK sitting in front of a group and and going through
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that. I think it's it's important for
22:12
the last, I don't know, 1718 years.
22:14
You wake up and every day you're thinking about how to make this
22:17
organization better and there's certain years that don't go the
22:22
way you want them to. Last year was was brutal.
22:25
So if fans have questions, I'd rather you instead of yelling at
22:28
your TV, come, let's go talk about.
22:31
It and I also think you are willing to be open and honest.
22:35
Is that ever an issue? They like the Tyler O'Neill
22:37
situation. You were pretty open.
22:39
You were mad that he didn't hustle.
22:40
Are there times I want a manager as unfiltered as possible?
22:44
I want you to say anything and everything.
22:45
How do you balance it? Because sometimes fans might be
22:47
like you didn't play so and so well, they don't know that that
22:51
player came to you and said I don't want to go today, I'm
22:54
tired or whatever. They, you know, there's a lot of
22:56
stuff that you guys have to kind of hold back.
22:59
How do you balance that when you want to tell people the truth?
23:03
Yeah, you have to protect the player and there's times you you
23:07
pick and choose when you want something out there and when you
23:10
don't. I can tell you that before you
23:14
sit in front of that mic, after every game, you're you're pretty
23:18
thoughtful about what you're going to be willing to say and
23:21
what you're not. I'm not very reactive in nature
23:23
when it comes to saying something that I didn't plan on
23:27
saying. So yeah, you want to have the
23:30
players back. You want to protect the
23:32
clubhouse, You want to make sure that there's accountability as
23:35
well. And I've been equally as open
23:38
about when I Jack something off. And that's what I think people
23:41
sometimes are afraid to do because it's going to be held
23:44
against you and people go run and off 100 different
23:47
directions, 100 miles an hour. And if you self admit that, hey,
23:52
here's what I didn't do well, I left this guy in too long.
23:54
Or here's what I think I could have done better.
23:55
But the reality is, put it out there, who cares?
24:00
At least that's the way I think about it.
24:01
I think if you're going to say that honesty is important to
24:06
you, well, you also have to be honest about when you look in
24:09
the mirror and be able to point things out that maybe aren't in
24:13
line with the mission of Dental World Series.
24:15
So accountability goes both ways.
24:19
Where do you want to be better? You said you did a lot of self
24:22
analysis kind of reflecting and and is any of that strategy
24:26
what, what did you come away with that you're willing to
24:28
share? Yeah, Strategy, strategy,
24:31
strategy. I I think the X's and O's are
24:33
one thing everyone has an opinion on on certain moods.
24:37
The reality is when when they communicate what they would have
24:41
done, it's 100% certainty that theirs would have worked.
24:45
And that's just not how this, how this actually works.
24:48
So excellent. It knows is one thing when you
24:52
start to break down the staff and the players.
24:55
I think there's some things internally that that we're
24:57
working on that I think could could speak volumes to how this
25:01
season goes. We'll keep those in house, but
25:05
at the end of the day, this is the most excited I've been going
25:08
into a year. I'll play that.
25:10
How about me saying to you, maybe you don't need to always
25:12
be unfiltered. Then he gives me a We're going
25:14
to keep that in house. I did it to myself there.
25:16
I should be like, just tell us everything at all times.
25:20
I'll tell you what, the manager position, at least in the
25:23
division, boy, it's prioritized. How about the Cubs taking
25:26
counsel from Milwaukee? That did not sit well with my
25:29
Brewer friends, But it's it's kind of a compliment to the
25:32
position, isn't it? The level of importance that the
25:34
Cubs placed on it. What did you think of that move?
25:38
Yeah, I I haven't put a whole lot of thought into it.
25:41
Obviously you see it takes place it's within the division but
25:47
it's an important position and leadership's important how you
25:51
lead Not only your staff at the big league level and how you
25:56
treat them but but the players and then the minor league system
26:00
and making sure that you're instilling certain qualities
26:03
that speak more to the continuity all the way to the
26:06
bottom. So I I do think the position is
26:09
extremely important. Obviously they place the value
26:11
on that that that we haven't seen in a long time forever from
26:16
a financial standpoint. But at the end of the day it's
26:21
you're leading people. That's why when you ask about
26:23
the X's and O's that that's one thing that this is a a game
26:26
played by human who experienced certain pressures and anxieties
26:30
and have families and kids and and and deal with a lot
26:33
throughout the course of the season and how you handle,
26:35
that's important. So yeah.
26:40
You got a couple of guys in Goldie Arenado who are now
26:44
Goldsmith's a little older than Arenado, but guys who are
26:46
getting later in their career, they want to win.
26:49
They came to Saint Louis to win. It's not your obligation, but
26:52
I'm curious your sense from them how important it is.
26:55
You know, last year was horrible for everybody.
26:57
These guys are potential Hall of Fame players who want to be in
27:01
October. How do you, how do you sense
27:03
from what do you sense from them in terms of their drive to say
27:05
let's let's get this right, let's fix it together.
27:08
We got to be in October. It's not just be in October.
27:12
If you ask Goldie, he he was not satisfied with getting to the
27:16
playoffs. They want to ring to your point.
27:20
They they they've been in the sleep for a while.
27:25
There'll be a time where they're no longer doing this and they
27:28
want to make sure that every year they're taking the best
27:32
shot and they're preparing. In order to do that, you're
27:35
going to see a very motivated Arenado.
27:39
Goldie has spent a lot of time this offseason, not only
27:43
improving himself, the making sure that he's bringing others
27:47
alongside with them, and I think you'll see the fruits of that as
27:50
well. So from a clubhouse standpoint,
27:54
I'm extremely excited as to where it stands today.
27:57
And I think you're right. These guys want to make sure
28:02
that they take their shot and at the end of their career they're
28:05
able to have at least one ring to show for.
28:09
All right, final thought. One of your great contributions
28:11
in 2022 was getting MO and Albert on the phone together,
28:15
getting poo holes to come to Saint Louis.
28:17
Albert told us. Albert told us.
28:19
He said. I talked to Holly and let's go
28:20
here and boy, that worked out. Can Albert come around?
28:24
I know he works for the Angels in some capacity.
28:27
Do you anticipate seeing him at spring training and and do you
28:29
ever see him getting involved at the coaching level?
28:33
Yeah, I think at some point, but he does have his contract with
28:37
the Angels which doesn't allow him to actually participate to
28:41
the degree that we would want in in Saint Louis.
28:44
But I I talk to him often he he, he's a really good friend and we
28:51
get to kind of bounce things back and forth during the
28:54
offseason. I mean, I I just saw him not too
28:56
long ago, a couple weeks ago and he's always a phone call away.
28:59
So I I appreciate his the relationship I have with him.
29:03
But but yeah, I mean from a seeing him in spring training it
29:07
won't be anything scheduled. Yeah.
29:09
Well Ollie, we appreciate you hopping on and good luck with
29:12
all your fans meet and greet and we will see it Spring Training.
29:17
I appreciate it, man. Thank you.