Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 141. Live on Location with Lee Howell - Nicuragua Trip

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141. Live on Location with Lee Howell - Nicuragua Trip · 4-Freedom Podcast

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I do not mean to be mean, I do mean to be mad those that
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criticize this. Kind of preaching they don't
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like a. Thorn.
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If you ain't got the King James, you ain't got, hey, you don't
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have a King James, you don't have a Bible.
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You'd be surprised, son. Don't go to sleep while I'm
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talking. Hey, hey, hey.
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Don't. Don't you lay your head.
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I'm important. I'm somebody.
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I love you. You know I love you.
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Have I convinced you I love you? Yeah.
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You better say. You better nod your head.
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Yes. Sorry.
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Come on, put it out there. All right?
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You stay awake and you listen to me.
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I still believe if you're cold in hell before I get my family
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for a woman, I'm a preacher. When you got dressed.
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Today you dressed deity. This is the Four Freedom
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Podcast, a podcast that is part of the RFP Network that seeks to
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bring freedom in Christ from the spiritual abuse of legalism.
1:19
And so fundamentalism is designed to unpack the idea of
1:23
authority from Scripture. The problem with that is that
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that's not the defining principle in Scripture.
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It is a part of Scripture. But the defining principle in
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Scripture is love. I found my freedom in you.
2:03
I found a toy I can't lose, and thank God it's true.
2:09
You wrapped your arms around me and heaven broke through.
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From the moment she found me. I found.
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Welcome to the full freedom podcast this podcast exists to
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bring the freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
2:28
everyday issues Now here are your.
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Hosts James Seyfried. And Brett, Mark, welcome back to
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the Full Freedom Podcast. This is your host, James Brett
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here. We are excited to be recording
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together. This is Brett, I think the first
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time we've been able to record together in person.
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And we are down in Nicaragua, Central America on a mission
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trip here with United Christian Mission.
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And it's been a great time so far with our group.
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We've got 4 for my church, four from Brett's church, and then
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the grand Koopa Lee Hollow here with United Christian Mission
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and just excited about what's going on.
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Brett Howell, have you enjoyed this last couple of days, been
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here and this is your first mission?
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Trip, I know this is my first mission trip.
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Like you say, we are live on location.
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Of course, by the time this comes out, it won't be live, but
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we are live on location. Nicaragua.
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This is the first time that we have been, I've been on a
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mission trip. A lot of people in my group,
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it's the first time they've been on a mission trip and this has
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been quite an experience. It's been a rewarding
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experience. I really didn't know what to
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expect, but we have been bam, bam, bam.
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We've been doing ministry, we've been in home, we've talked to
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families, we've helped people, we've reached out to people.
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We've preached the gospel. We're not done preaching the
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gospel. We're going to preach the gospel
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twice tomorrow. Great, great opportunities here
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in this in this ministry. But the big question on
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everybody's mind is, would you go up to the cross again?
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Well, let's let's set some context here.
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We've got again the Grand Pupa Lee here and he there.
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There's a cross way in the distance.
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Way in the distance. And they said, oh, it's a, it's
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a trek up. I pulled up on my Google Maps.
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It's 342 meters. No one knows what meters is
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because it's only used when people swim and that that's not
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even really a sport. And so we're we're trying to
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figure it out. I'm like, OK, we'll, we'll go up
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it. And so I'm like halfway up and
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Lee's like you're halfway to halfway because we got to come
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back down and my heart rate's racing and we finally make it up
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there. The view was fantastic.
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And I may eventually do it again one day, but man, was it a halt.
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And, and Lee here, he's with us. He he's been, this was his third
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time going up. Third time.
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Yep, third time. And with three times he he still
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is crazy enough to go even a third time.
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I, I tell you what, I was on the front porch sipping my coffee
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this morning, watching you go up the side of the mountain.
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I saw your red shirt that you were you were wearing.
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That's like there. Oh, there they are there.
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They are, yeah, we were having a good time.
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Yeah. Well, Brett, what or, or let's
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go to Lee. Lee, what's something that we've
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done this trip, every trip you go on is different.
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What's something that has been unique that we've been able to
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do or see that has been something that stood out to you
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that was really special? Well, I've so this would be my
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12th, 12th mission trip. And you know, you just let you
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always worry and you always wonder.
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People kind of look to you for the plan, but you know, God,
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it's, it's always amazing how God can move you around and, and
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you, you get to see and experience things that that you
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had no idea that that we're we're going to be a part of your
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trip. And, you know, I think one of
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the things for us, the dynamics of having two different churches
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that had never met, but everybody's willingness to
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serve, you know, to have that servant mentality, 0 complaints,
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0 incompatibilities. You know, we've just, we're,
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we're serving the same God. And I've, I've really enjoyed
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seeing that out of the two groups.
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I think that's, that's something definitely unique because
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normally the groups that I've had in the past, they, they've
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all known each other for a very long period of time.
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And other than you and Brett, nobody had to ever even met each
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other. So I I found that really
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interesting. Yeah, one of the things that
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couple of things that stood out to me the most was this.
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The living conditions with people going in these houses,
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this is normal life for them. And it's dirt floors, not only
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no AC but no ventilation. I remember 1 instance we stopped
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at A at a church and we went in the Parsonage and it was just a
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shed on the side of the church and just like a shed that I'll
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put my mower in. But that man's been living in
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that Parsonage 14 years and I left out of that.
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And I looked at James, I looked at Amy and her group and I said
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we are just so spoiled in America.
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We just have no idea what it's really like out here.
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Yeah, I felt the same thing when we were at that church and it
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was 8 foot by 34 foot 200 and 82140 square foot.
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Him and his granddaughters, his wife, they all live.
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There yeah, most people have sheds in their backyard bigger
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than where he was living and like I said 14 years.
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And so definitely the the need there.
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One of the things that I thought was just we've been challenged
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to memorize a verse and have a devotion ready and for me, you
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know, I'll pray through some things and figure out where
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Lord's leading. But every devotion from two
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different churches, three different churches, if we're
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counting Lee there, he didn't know we were planning either.
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All nine of us have come up with a verse or devotion that has
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somewhat flowed together, right? Either talking about prayer,
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patience, being still and knowing the Lord just verses
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that are on our heart that I thought, man, it's just been
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great to see the Lord work through those situations.
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You know, in a in a church in two churches that haven't met
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each other. No, we we didn't meet Amy and
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Michelle beforehand. I didn't know who Travis was.
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I've seen them on a zoom call, but we didn't know each other
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and to see our people interact well, work well has been just
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really, really cool. So much have I enjoyed it and
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keep looking forward to what we've got planned tomorrow with
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Church 2 church services and then heading back to Managua.
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It's going to be a great, great time.
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So what else do we think has been important to us this week
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that we should share? Well, listen, I have just had a
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great time. We had a little get together
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with some of it. There's an educated child
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program that United Christian Missions puts on and try to help
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kids through their education and that's a way to bring the
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parents in and to bring the parents into the church, share
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the gospel with them, get the parents coming to church.
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That's the end goal. Like the educated educated child
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program is a great program, but the goal is the gospel is to get
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the gospel to the parents is to just like Lee had a real good
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his one of his main emphasis is is having a dad in the home and
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being able to see some of these dads with their kids and praise
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them and listen. Well, I heard Lee tell one day.
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So I don't see many dads in the homes and it's good to see
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you're here with your dad. And they came that dad came to
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our to our get together that we put on and man, we fed the kids
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fried chicken. We pulled out the Jenga games
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and we paint, we pulled out the Connect fours and man just had a
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great up time. They're serious about their
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Jenga here in in Nicaragua. I mean, there was some some
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serious planning. It was, you know, it was high
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stakes, but just to be a blessing to those kids to give
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those kids a meal that you could tell they don't normally get me
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and you. We drive back at a million gas
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stations with fried chicken in them every day.
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But to see those kids eat that chicken, something they don't
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get very often, it was great to be a blessing to them.
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And it's just, I've enjoyed this trip so much.
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This is a mission trip where you're, it's not sightseeing,
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although there's some of, there's always some of that.
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But you're working, you're doing, you're doing ministry.
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And that's what I love about it. Yeah, one of our ladies got to
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adopt one of the girls and we got to talk to the family.
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And we said, well, where's the mom and dad at?
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And she said she doesn't have a mom and dad, her brothers are
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raising her. She recently went through a
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divorce and it's been tough on her.
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And she said I get to be her mom.
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She came up and gave me a big hug and talking to the lady
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there. And she said just warm my heart
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to know I get to be that figure in her life.
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And you know, for me, having a mom and dad, having a step mom
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and a step dad, and if I need something, there's support
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around me. I, I can call my dad and say,
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hey, dad, hard times are coming. I need your help, mom, I need
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some help. Stepmom.
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She's she's bought vacations for us to go to the beach.
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We're going to the beach here in a couple of weeks for Christmas
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time. She's she's just taking care of
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it. She doesn't have that.
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And now she's going to have someone to step in and sort of
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feel in that role that's been missing.
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Can we are we only have to mention first names of the
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children? Yeah, OK.
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I want to talk about Leonard's story because we went to
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Leonard's house, way up a hill. I was not prepared for that hill
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when we trekked up there. And so we got up there, had to
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catch my breath, and we finally got up there.
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We got in the home. And what I mentioned earlier,
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this was the this was the dad that you said, Lee, you said,
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man, I'm glad that there's a father in the home you don't see
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that often. Was he is he a new kid to the.
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Program, yes. So we had just added him to the
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program that day when we on that visit.
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And then we were able to bless this family, Jane, talk about
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how we blessed that family. Yeah, this was a cool time.
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We got. We went out and got some rough
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cut lumber. I mean, splinters everywhere.
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Logan, one of the guys in our church, he's an AD, so he's not
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really active in a lot of things.
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They don't really do much his school and so he's got splinters
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on his hands. Me and Travis that we're, we're
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rough hands. We don't have any of that.
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So we built this rough bed, the rough bunk bed and we, we
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assembled most of it here at the the center.
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And then we drove it to their house and, and we walked in with
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all this that I guess they had somewhat knew that we were
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coming. They had cleaned up the floor a
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little bit and we set the bed up.
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We assembled it all there. We put the mattresses on and
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their little brother Kenner, who's potentially going to be in
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the program maybe next year, come running there, climbed up
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the stairs, jumped on the top of the bunk bed.
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And you could see just the excitement on his face.
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But Leonard is 13 years old, and this is to be the first time
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this past day, the two couple days ago was the first time he's
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ever slept on a bed that wasn't on the floor.
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And I grabbed one of our girls, one of the ladies, and I said, I
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want you to imagine for the very first time in your life, a
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church, through the partnership of a ministry, takes you aside
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and says, hey. You've been on our.
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Heart, we want to help you out. We want to provide some things
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for your schooling. We want to provide some things
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for your family. And then a couple of days later,
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some gringos from America show up, put together the bed and
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they bring it in your house. And the neighbors begin and say,
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hey, what's going on? Well, how did you get a bed?
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My kids are still sleeping on the floor and Leonard would be
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able to say, well, I started going to this church and this
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church has been helping my family.
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Would you come to church with me?
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Imagine the gospel witness that's going to have I said, but
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on the pop of that the the hygiene of him not sleeping on
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the floor. His brother's having a bed.
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And we we, we asked Kenner because he was playing some
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Pokémon Go with me. I said, did you enjoy your new
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bed? And he said, it's not my bed,
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it's my brother's bed. So but to see the excitement on
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their face and to see what the Lord's doing and in a small way
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that we see as so insignificant, man, how often is it that?
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I mean, I'll be sitting there. We just recently redid some
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rooms and I went on Amazon. I bought a bed kit.
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It was shipped to my door. The next day.
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We put it together and boom, the kids have a bed.
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They've never not slept on a bed that hasn't been on the floor.
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Like that's just a way our way of living.
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But to them, it is a complete change of the way they live by
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just being a blessing. Now Leonard came to our get
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together and was actually adopted by a couple from your
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church and that was quite a blessing.
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It was, Yeah. Was it cool in there where y'all
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weren't putting that bed together?
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Man, there, there was no movement of air whatsoever.
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The dad comes in there and he's sort of helping us out a little
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bit. We'll run the power tools and
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finally he walks in with like a little 3/4 inch fan that plugs
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into an outlet, plugs it in and it felt like the room got 10°
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cooler. We're in the back of the house,
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this concrete bricks. I've seen pictures y'all this
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sweat. Oh man, I have sweat.
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My weight in sweat this week, especially going up the
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mountain. One of the guys that's with us,
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one of our leaders, he led us up and I kept asking, are you ever
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going to sweat? He he just never broke a sweat.
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And finally at the end, he said my shirt's a little wet.
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I said it's nothing compared to how wet my shirt is so.
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Good deal. It's good stuff.
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We've had a great time. Well.
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We were at a church this week and we'll sort of end with this
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and get out of here and thank you guys for showing up.
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We were in a church this week and as we were in there, one of
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the above the pulpit was a verse.
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It was John 6. 67 through 7. 67 through 70 and we're going to
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ask Lida to read it for us and we're just going to talk about
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it for a minute because it was something that sparked a couple
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of things in me and Brett's mind.
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And we may do a full episode of this here soon.
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But just want to wet your appetite a little bit about a
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random verse that we saw that helped us a lot this week.
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So. All right, here we have it.
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John 6 starting in verse 67. It says Then said Jesus unto the
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12 will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him,
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Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal
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life, and we believed and are sure that thou art that Christ
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the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them.
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Have I not chose? Have not I.
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Chosen you 12, and one of you is a devil.
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And that wasn't just any verse, that was King James, English
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brother. Man, hey man.
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Love it that's. Right, So as we think through
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that verse, a couple of things that stood up to me as I was
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reading it was Jesus is giving this question to his disciples,
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what are you going to do with your life?
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And Simon Peter, the the disciple that's so much like
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most of us, puts his foot in his mouth and says, where are we
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going to go? What are we going to do?
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Like you have the words of life and Brett Sherwood was the
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thought you had when when I shared that first with you, when
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you began thinking about that. I began thinking about, you
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know, people that leave the church, like they get hurt, they
18:47
have trauma because you think about the context of John
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chapter 6. You've got the very, very
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quickly, we'll go more into detail this later, but you've
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got the feeding of the 5000. People are following Jesus
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because they were fed and he knows this.
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So he turns around, he hits him with some hard truth.
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He hits him with I am the bread of life.
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You must eat in my flesh, drink in my blood.
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No other way to the Father except through me.
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And people started to to leave it.
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And then he turned around and normally the 12 were there, but
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that's the context of the. At one point in that they asked
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him, I believe. Is not this your mother and
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sister? Yeah, isn't.
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Your mother and father with us, how can you say you came from
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heaven? Yeah.
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And he looked at him and said, they're not my mother and
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father, they're my brothers. Just my mother and father and
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mother and sisters are the ones with me, right?
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And only those that are with me will be my mothers and fathers
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and brothers and sisters, right? So I mean, that's a hard pill to
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swallow. So, so Jesus is laying out these
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hard truths and it's a little hard pill for a lot of people to
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swallow. So they begin to to back away
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from Jesus. And at one point near the end of
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the chapter, Jesus turns around and only the 12 are with him.
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And he says we also go away and it what that what what to what
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we were talking about. What that hit me is it hit me is
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people that have experienced church, her church trauma,
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things like that, they get hurt and they leave the church.
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But then there are others that get hurt, but then they come
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back and when they come back to the church, I hear them in my
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mind saying the same thing that Peter said.
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Where else are we going to go? You have the words of eternal
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life. And that was my story when I
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wanted to leave. I wanted to leave so bad because
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I've been in so much abuse and then I've been manipulated so
20:42
many times. But where else am I going to go?
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Jesus has the words of eternal life.
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Yeah. Is there anything you wanted to
20:49
say about that that scripture in me?
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Yeah, so I, I agree with exactly what you're saying.
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You know, you see it in in young adults, you know, maybe there's
20:59
that one person at church that frustrates you that that makes
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makes you maybe you dread a meeting with that person and you
21:09
but you allow that person to separate you from these group of
21:14
believers that are going to help you grow and help you to become
21:20
a a better Christian, someone who's closer to the Lord.
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But when we allow that one person to, to have that much
21:27
power over our lives, we, we never will know the blessings
21:33
that we missed by by allowing that to happen.
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So, you know, like you were talking, we, we just have to, we
21:43
have to endure. We have to pray through and we
21:45
have to communicate with people. Don't, don't let things fester
21:50
that that that we can go ahead and handle within the church
21:54
congregation. Yeah, one of the things I was
21:57
thinking about was when you, and we say this often, it's sort of
22:01
a little tongue in cheek, but you're going to get cheated
22:04
every once in a while in a grocery store.
22:06
And yet you still go back to that grocery store.
22:09
You know the deal that you thought you were getting when
22:11
you have the coupon for half off and you go to use it and they
22:15
go, oh, sorry, this was actually expired yesterday.
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And you get mad at them when you go, man, I wish I could have
22:21
used that coupon. But then the next week you go
22:23
back and even though you were hurt and it was not necessarily
22:27
a trauma that you could be heard in the way of abuse, but you
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still have hurt. You still go back.
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And often times when a church hurt happens, we blend the
22:37
church and inevitably God and his creation and his word gets
22:42
blamed as well. When God's word never hurt us,
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it may Pierce as the dividing sunder of the sword that's going
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to hurt us in our conscience and cause us to maybe have to deal
22:55
with the Holy Spirit in a way, but the the word didn't hurt us.
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A fallen man did and oftentimes we use the fallen man and we
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say, OK, that person hurt me and so therefore I can't go and and
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be a part of any church where what put what Peter is saying
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here is I don't have any other thing to do.
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You are the words of life. I'm going to stay here.
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And then Jesus, in that same moment again, he's beginning in
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chapter 6 where he begins to lay out, I've chosen you 12 and one
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of you is the devil. And none of them, even Judas
23:27
himself, didn't even realize. I don't think you realized at
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that moment he was going to be a devil.
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I believe they all look around each other like one of us is by
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Satan's, like we're here with you, like we're part of you.
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And then it wasn't until, you know, later on this, in this
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book, in chapter 19, when Judas begins to be revealed as the one
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who betrays him. So we begin seeing that picture
23:54
of betrayal, misjustice. And even thinking about that, my
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mind's on it. Two people directly betrayed
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Jesus in his, in his moment of most weakness, Peter and Judas.
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And I believe with my whole heart that if Judas would have
24:12
sought forgiveness from the Lord afterwards, they would have been
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forgiveness. Absolutely.
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Peter went out on the boat, Judas went and killed himself.
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They both ran from the Lord, but Jesus couldn't go to Judas.
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Judas because he killed himself. Right.
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Exactly Jesus went to Peter and he gave him another chance and
24:34
oftentimes we fail to realize there are second, 3rd, 1530
24:39
thousand chances that God gives us to have repentance.
24:42
I've just got them pricks it through Jonah and the the
24:45
sovereignty of God and the the grace that God gives Jonah where
24:49
he constantly over and over and over again is giving him chances
24:53
to regret should be a reminder to us that God's given us
24:59
chances to repent. He wouldn't tell us to forgive
25:02
those who hurt US 7 * 70 times. Yeah.
25:06
If he wasn't willing to do it himself, yeah.
25:08
One thing that I got out of what you just said was we looked at
25:13
the 12. The 12 didn't even know which
25:16
one of them was the devil. It was hard for anyone to tell
25:20
but Jesus. It only time revealed to
25:24
everyone else which one was wrong.
25:27
And I think sometimes churches can be like that.
25:31
Not every church because churches are run by fallen man
25:35
and you know, you're sometimes you're going to have a bad
25:38
experience at a church and it's just a bad church.
25:41
I mean, look at Paul writing to Corinthians.
25:44
He didn't write to Corinthians because everything was hunky
25:47
Dory. He wrote to Corinthians because
25:50
they were doing some messed up stuff and they needed to be
25:53
corrected. So sometimes you're going to get
25:55
into a church and man, things aren't going to be going the
25:58
right way. That doesn't mean you give up on
26:00
Jesus, you give up on the Bible, you give up on Christianity.
26:04
The Lord might be leading you to another church.
26:07
From my own experience, I've been in some bad churches, but I
26:10
can tell you I've been in more solid ones than bad ones, you
26:15
know? And so you just got to let the
26:17
Spirit guide you in that regard. Yeah, and I think it's
26:20
understanding that about the fruits, you're going to know
26:23
them, right? Doesn't always mean a person.
26:26
That can mean a church. As well.
26:27
Exactly. I don't know how many times I've
26:29
talked to someone, counseled someone, and they'll say Master
26:33
James, I walked her to the church and I just knew this
26:38
wasn't the church for me to be in by walking in there.
26:41
And then as they said to the service, what they felt was
26:45
actually coming through the manipulation, the pastoral
26:48
authority, the overbearing of a pastor.
26:52
And because there is a spirit of what goes on with that.
26:57
And so I believe the Holy Spirit gives us that direction and
27:01
guidance, but it's again, it's not quenching the Holy Spirit,
27:04
it's allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us and to bring us back.
27:07
And, and it's overtime. I understand.
27:10
It's a timing. Process.
27:11
It's a process that as people get hurt, they have to work
27:15
through that. We've talked about the spiritual
27:17
identity disruption that we had talked about a couple of weeks
27:19
ago. And there's that grieving
27:21
process and the hurting process and the reflection process that
27:25
we go through as we begin this journey of understanding where
27:29
we're at. And so, all right, well, when we
27:34
were excited about the next couple of days, we'll give
27:36
another recap on this when we finish up, but the three ginger
27:40
Gringos are going to be signing off.
27:43
And to close us out, we're going to tag it on here at the end of
27:46
this episode. We've got a special treat for
27:49
you. We've got James singing here.
27:52
I come to worship in Espen Knoll.
27:54
Amen. Amen.
27:55
So be looking forward to that after this.
27:57
Is absolutely so. Till next time to God.
28:03
I'm sorry, I'm thinking about you singing, not the pastor.
28:08
Be the glory. Found my new name, Found that
28:12
good grace, found that healing. And the tears fell down my face
28:18
when I found my beginning. It has no ending.
28:20
I found that second chance. Found my best friend, Found my
28:23
forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since I
28:25
found my freedom. Thanks for listening to the For
28:43
Freedom podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
28:46
us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our
28:49
podcast on whichever podcast platform you use.
28:53
Be sure to join us next time for the For Freedom Podcast.