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Special Edition: Interview with James Peacock from The Queen Anne Boleyn Society · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to our special edition episode featuring founder and manager of the Queen Anne Boleyn Society, James Peacock.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome, James.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: We are so excited to have you on today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And Megan and I have a ton of questions for you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: But before we get to all of our questions, just as a preface to some of our listeners who may or may not be familiar with James, James again is the founder, creator, manager of the Queen Ambulance Society, which has over 30,000 followers on all of his different platforms.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can find him on his Facebook group, you can find him on Instagram, Twitter, there's a YouTube channel, all of the different components on social.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I first heard about you, James, is I've been following the Queen Ambulance Society for years.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you've been quite an inspiration because it's really, really cool to see someone who is as passionate about history and specifically about Ambolin making such a presence on social media, and just every day you're coming up with something creative.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and then I had the pleasure of meeting you in person when I was in London.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was, oh gosh, I must have been like such a freak when you met me because I was just like on a high of every it was the best day of my life.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, and then someone else at the castle was like, Oh, well, you have to meet James Peacock.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't know who James Peacock is.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, Well, do you know what the Ambulance Society is?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And instantly.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, so we're happy to have you here, James.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And no, you weren't bad, it wasn't bad at all.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was lovely to meet you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: I and I came back and told Elizabeth that I was just so composed and cool when I met everyone.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I know that wasn't the case.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I imagine the fangirl came out on her a bit, but that's okay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Just a little.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So let's start.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: We definitely want to hear about the Queen Anbolin Society.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So can you, for anyone who hasn't come across it, how would you describe this?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how do we describe an account, a profile?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the best word for it?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: A community?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: A community of An Blynn?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I started the Queen Anne Boleyn Society about eight years ago now, because Anne Boleyn is such a popular um, well, she's such a well-known figure in in history.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was really surprising that there wasn't actually a society um dedicated to her.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I've long been an admirer of um and interested in all things Anne Boleyn.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just kind of like the right time, the right thing to do to set it up and and to go from there.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really lucky to um have formed, you know, kind of um, although we hadn't met in person at that point, but um people like you know Natalie Greninger, who runs on the Tudor Trail and the Amazing Talking Tudors, um, and Sarah Morris from the Tudor Travel Guide.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd kind of got to know them, and they helped me out sort of in the you know, setting it all up in the beginning, and then since then, really, it's kind of grown bigger than I could have ever imagined it to have grown um at the start, but some wonderful um opportunities and um have come away and some incredible friendships really, yeah, as well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really, really fortunate.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna say, as you're talking about getting started and uh meeting some of these people to help you get started, how fast did it grow?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Were you pretty much like a month in and you're like, oh my gosh, we already have a thousand followers, or two thousand, even because I imagine you know, people have been looking for something like that for so long, and once you created it, they're like, Yes, here it is, here's where I connect with other people who can again experience this with me.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I remember starting up thinking, oh, you know, it'd be so lovely to get like 2,000 followers within like five, 10 years or something.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um but had been like a little bit probably a bit naive because obviously, you know, um having formed the relationships with like Natalie and Sarah when I started, they very kindly shared it on their pages.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um very quickly, overnight, the following list shot up straight away, um, which was incredibly, you know, um wonderful, slightly nerve nerve-wracking as well, um, to sort of learn, you know, to very quickly sort of adapt and learn the you know social media, the good and the bad side, how to use it, how to promote and everything, um, and what kind of content and stuff I wanted to put on the page.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, no, it was um it was really, it was really quite incredible.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very, very humbled to have had you know formed some amazing um relationships, but also had the experiences I've had from that and the experience to to keep learning as well about you know, because you can never stop discovering about someone.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so learning more about Anne, the Tudor period, um, and just just in general, you know, usage of social media and everything as well, it's been it's been you know wonderful, yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's definitely one of our opportunities, I would say.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: When I say ours, I mean mine, because ours.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's just not enough now in this day and age to like just have a podcast, for example.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have a strong social media platform and you're active and you're constantly creating new content and getting new engagement, um, it really is so important now to get your name out there.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and you're always coming up with things every day.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, kind of what is that creative process like?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know ahead of time what you're gonna be posting, or does it just come to you and like ah, in the moment I'm gonna post this?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a bit of both, really.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there are times where it comes in the moment, and you're like, you know, oh, let's think about let's try this, or um, sometimes things have been on are on your mind for quite a while, like, oh, I'd like to try this, or I'd like to learn about that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, it's kind of it's a bit of both, really, in a way, because on the one hand, like you want to tie obviously a lot into Anne Boleyn, but then it kind of what's but I think quite important is for people to realise that the story of Anne Boleyn doesn't just end on her execution, it's gone on to the present day.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's Boleyn descendants out there in the world, you know.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um you've got obviously the story of Anne's daughter Elizabeth and Anne's memory being revived in her time.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about kind of key, it's it's about how you get stuff like that in there.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I I would say with stuff like the post content and stuff, there's always that learning curve of how to go about it, how you start it, you know, it it's and it's a challenge.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes what also helps is occasionally taking a bit of a step back, a few days away from it all, and just thinking, right, where am I, where do I want to go now?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to post about next?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of just having that little bit of a break sometimes helps to recharge as well.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say it's tougher with historical content because if you follow any account that's you know about today's sports or politics or whatever, there's always new things coming out in the media every day.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's easy to kind of aggregate that and say, Oh, I'm just gonna talk about the Sunday football games that happened or whatever they are.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas us, again, we're talking about things that happened centuries and centuries ago.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you said, it's so hard for us to be like, okay, on this day in history, you know, did I already mention this fact?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are people bored of this?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Should I say the same thing but package it in a different way?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a new audience kind of understands it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's always, I guess, the struggle that we get in.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's yeah, uh it's it's it's always the ongoing battle we have.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just on a personal note for you, um, you know, obviously you started this, you said eight and a half years ago, almost nine.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: But what was your earliest memory about hearing about the tutors and specifically Anne Blynn herself?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I oh one of the earliest.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I always remember like I can't remember exactly how old I was, but I remember being quite young and going, I must have been, you know, I was definitely a small child at the time when we went to like Heaver Castle, um like on like family trips and stuff.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can remember going, I remember being going on a tour around there.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can't quite remember the concepts of her what we were told, but I think definitely that was kind of like a wow, you know, you're in Anne Boleyn's home and stuff here.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I can remember visiting the Tower of London, and I can remember asking my mum all these questions, saying, What about this, what about this, what about that?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And of course she couldn't answer, so she took me up to one of the yeoman guards or you know, and said, Look, he really wants to learn.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Could you tell him a bit more about this?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he literally just gave me all these fascinating facts, which I can always I can still remember um today.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's kind of what really sort of you know got it more, got helped it get develop it further, definitely.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can always remember getting the video um that that long ago you know back when we had videos and um you know of Anna the Thousand Days, Elizabeth R, you know, Glenda Jackson, that kind of definitely helped spearhead it along much further.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cute.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you have such an advantage of growing up in England because as dumb Arizonians out here in the desert in the middle of nowhere in the Wild West, uh, we were talking about this a little bit before we were recording, though, how I feel like people here, even adults, they won't know who Anne Boleyn is.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or they'll just say, Oh, she's the one queen who got beheaded.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really all people know.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're growing up, and I'm sure your school like um outings and field trips or whatever, when they end up being Tower of London and Heaver Castle, that is just uh mind-blowing too.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're a little jealous of that outbringing.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: A little jealous.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I wish I do wish we had done um a school trip to like Heaver or Tower of London, but I guess that was always you know, one was a bit far out in the country, the other was uh a bit too in a city London for where I was.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, definitely.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know what you mean.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I would say there's a lot, I would say there's a lot of people here though that don't that know the base, just the basic fact they've heard about Anne Boleyn that she got beheaded, or they'll have heard the rumour about the sick finger, that ridiculous story.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that there's sadly a lot of people who still think of the wives as connected in that annoying, silly rhyme, which I over time just started to hate.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this this rhyme that is on Elizabeth's mug.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you gotta show them because it's feeling being blocked by the mic.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when it's heated up, it'll say like divorce, beheaded, die, divorce, beheaded, survive.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, because it's cold in words of way.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: We were thinking the same thing too, because we recently went and saw Six the Musical, because it finally came.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, like this mug that says six the music.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can't really see it on the camera.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Six the musical.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we went to that, and I honestly wanted to take a poll of everyone there to be like, okay, who actually knows what's going on?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of people, you know, have season tickets, they just go to these shows, they don't even know what these shows are about some of the time.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like six is very much like you kind of need to know the story before you go into that show because it's just music.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really give a lot of background, like here's the you know, the year was 1500 something, and we have King Henry VIII, and we have you know, Catherine of it doesn't really start that way.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: You just kind of have to know, and then I you know, that's why it's funny, is because people who who know understand, oh, that's what each of the wives went through.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, we talked to some of the people just kind of in line, you know, for drinks and things, like, oh, like, you know, which which wife do you really like, or like how much do you know about the tutors or king King Henry VIII?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the question or the answers we got were really sad.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: They was just like, oh, I don't know, my friend brought me here tonight.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like King King Henry Who?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was embarrassing.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it really was.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: It really was.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: We were all here because we were all nerds about this, but that's fine.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: They just like music.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: They just like music.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, James, you had reference um watching some videos like Anne of a Thousand Days and Elizabeth.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: What is your favorite movie or TV portrayal of Anne Boleyn?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's gotta be Jean-Vier Bougeot 100% like um.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Classic.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: She was spectacular in capturing the French side of Anne, um, the vulnerable side of Anne, the passionate side of Anne.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think she she was really, she, yeah, for me, she'll always be up at the best.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have, despite a lot of the criticism the show gets, I do have a lot of time for Natalie Dorman's portrayal.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love the fact that she challenged the producers on certain things.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that to me makes my respect for her go up a lot further.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she did her portrayal got um known to a wider audience as well.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, the show every generation has sort of a production that gets the shows known to a wider audience, and that generation obviously was the Tudors, but yeah, it was um I definitely would say, but Jean Jean Vieux has to be my number one, yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just you're right, despite Natalie Dormer having blue eyes, that was like my only thing.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: However, they had the luxury of being able to spread out her trial and execution and her downfall because they could do full episodes.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh, it was it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I still can't watch it without crying.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when she's looking out the window, watching her brother and her friends being executed.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And do you think okay?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So here's a question for you for the expert.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think she actually could have had a vantage point from where her her quarters or like where her stay was?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, chamber.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to say prison, but it wasn't really a prison.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: But at the Tower of London, do you think she actually could have seen the executions happening?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it's doubtful.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think she could have been moved somewhere to have watching, because I think where her palms were situated with the other side of the tower to where Tower Hill was.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it would have been um, even if she was moved to another quarter, she'd have had to have had pretty good vision, I think, to see where the execution spot was.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's not impossible.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we'll never know 100% for certain, but I I think it is slightly doubtful, I'd say.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there is a busy street there and crosswalks.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, modern day.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Modern day, big hotel high-rise next to it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was really cool though to see like finally now being able to go to the Tower of London is seeing I talked about this in the last episode, right?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But being able to see, like, okay, here's White Tower, here's Tower Hill, and getting the proximities of everything.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just such a bizarre moment for me to realize, okay, here, here's Tower Green, or you know, where the scaffold would have been for some of the queens and whatnot.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just really, really cool to just see where the layout, what the layout was like.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And Megan had FaceTimed me as soon as she got to her hotel because it was right across from the tower.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like on at a rooftop bar.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny because it was so, you know, clubby.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was like little trendy music playing, and Megan sitting there, you know, with her husband, and she's like, Look at this.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Where are you?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's nowhere that can be anywhere near Tower of London.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Oh no, it's overlooking it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was so it was so weird to see the modern with the old.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, James, you have an amazing background yourself.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us a little bit about your job and what you do for a living?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so basically, um I'm very, very fortunate to actually work in a location that um is strongly connected to Anne Boleyn, and that is Hampton Court Palace.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which um, yeah, is it and um what's so special about um Hampton Court too and this connection to Anne Boleyn is that the Tudor side of the palace that still survives today, Anne and Henry designed it together, um, which a lot of people don't often realise.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's yeah, there's many sort of mementos and connections to Anne there, which is incredible.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and my role there is basically being one of the palace hosts, so I get to be situated in the rooms of the palaces.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: We move around a bit, so I'm not always in like the Tudor side, so it's kept is kept quite fresh.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, we are there to tell the stories really about the palace and bring them to life, and um occasionally give a talk to the public as well.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so obviously Ann Boleyn, Elizabeth are like my um go-to subjects.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so get to tell the story of these people every day.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of I'm pretty much immersed in it, you could say.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's amazing.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: When I met you, you were uh working in the kitchen and you had like, oh, it smells so good when you go in the big fire pit and they are roasting the what is it, euros chickens and whatnot.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, it was it's and they've done such a good job with their kitchens because um about four years ago now they were reinterpreted as the more what they would have been like.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with the soundscapes, it's brought to life, and yeah, it's quite um interesting to light the fire um in the kitchens, and yes, when they roast things, so they whenever they do roasting, it's always roasting beef on there.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it's quite um, and there's some amazing like historical like Tudor Cooks and stuff who bring it all to life really well.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so cool, it's very cool.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any other kind of secrets um of the castle that are not really well known?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a lot, I would say there's a lot, like the history side isn't always as well known and stuff like people know about the Henry VIII connection, but actually every king and queen from Henry VIII well up until George II and mid-1700s all lived at Hampton Core.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know that includes like Elizabeth I, and I'm often like, yes, Henry lived to two percent in Elizabeth, and you know, there's so much going on, and you know, so a lot of that, and and the kind of the sense that we have like half a Tudor and half a Baroque slash Georgian side.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's kind of a very interesting mix of history, really, Hampton Core.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And even after the roles stopped living there, you know, it was a lot of interesting residence and like the Grace and Favre and everything, and you know, so we've had a very it's got a very interesting, diverse history, which I would say isn't as well known, really.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I thought they did a really good job with that because you're right, when I visited, I was expecting it to just be all about King Henry VIII.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: But they do a really nice job of um the Baroque, like you said, the Baroque style and the Georgian style.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Am I say that right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Georgian?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Georgian Georgian?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Georgian.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We we struggle with pronunciation a lot on this podcast.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, let's not talk about the time when I we were reading something and we didn't realize that the British spelling for jail or jailer is G-A-O-L, I think.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, O-A-L-E-R.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we kept calling it Gowl.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: We were like, they're in a gal, and a gower, it took us like days.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my god, Elizabeth.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: We we had to go, I think, online because we're like, we're clearly saying this wrong.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we like Googled it to see the pronunciation.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the pronunciation was like jail.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, how embarrassing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of our lower moments in life.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we get through it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh word pronunciation, I get it muddled, get things muddled all the time.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you still have the sophisticated way about you with your accent, so I feel like you could pull it off us.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no hiding.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we just butcher it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a lot of ghost stories around Hampton Court, and some just like very impactful moments of key pieces of history that happened in those walls.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever experienced anything creepy or ghost-like while you were working there?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I haven't myself.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know um some people that have, um, or you know, it's more of a like odd experiences.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I would say actually, one I mean, obviously, I know you guys you guys will know that one of the most famous ghost stories at Hampton Court is Catherine Howard.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our girls running down the hallway.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would say the most haunted spot or the most possibly you know haunted spot in the palace is actually in the Baroque side, the private Georgian rooms.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they're the Queen's private apartments, and they were used by Queen Caroline, who is the wife of George II.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you always, near enough always, will when you're opening in the morning, get a very strong sense when you go into her bathroom of you know, this aroma of rose water or cinnamon in there.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, there's this, you know, it's I would say that those rooms are the ones that you are the most um potentially haunted.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: ones or the most one where you feel appropriate.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's certainly the one where I've um most got closest, I'd say, to a ghostly sort of um experience, possibly.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's uh definitely possible.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, I wouldn't want to walk around there in the pitchback at night.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I totally would.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I would think she's brave enough.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was like sitting in the haunted gallery, just I was so annoyed that there were so many people around me because I was really trying to have a moment.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is my chance to meet Catherine Howard.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Catherine, come if you're here, and nothing happened, of course.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was just hustle and bustle and torse all over the place.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Shoot.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: But we'll try again.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or like imagine meeting Ambolin's ghost or something.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: I always fantasize about weird things like that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: We joked when Megan first moved in this house because there was a lot of creaky things upstairs.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we we always because you know, we actually named the Wi-Fi like Blackmore Manor and everything.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what we is Blackmoor Manor.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because we refer to the yeah, the house in that we call this the tower.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when they first moved in and we heard all these creepy noises upstairs, we're like, oh, that that's Anne Boleyn in your tower.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's obviously in Arizona.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's in Scottsdale, Arizona.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: She had a she had a couple of years.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: She retired here, as many do.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: I wish.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: But speaking of uh, you know, encounters, uh, back to kind of the the earthly realm.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have you who's been coming kind of your favorite people that you've met um in your time working at Hamdencourt Palace?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mentioned a lot of historians and very like exciting people come.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's there's quite a lot really.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I mean, one of them um has got to be lovely Tracy Borman, um, who, you know, um actually works at Hampshire Court as well.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd met Tracy a couple of times, a few times I'd probably say, um, before I started working in Paris, but since you know, working together more, we've got to know each other a lot more.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, there's been many um people who, you know, have walked through an absolutely lovely, like, you know, Dr.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Owen Emerson, I've had a chance to meet, um, who's absolutely one of the most wonderful people.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, others been like um Kate Williams, Professor Kate Williams.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've even met Susanna Lipscomb a couple of times briefly, and she's very girl.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to be her best friend.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Susanna, if you're ever listening to this, I would love to just sit and have happy hour with you and just talk.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth's gonna be third on her best friend list.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: First, first Susanna, then Taylor Swift, and then me.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: James is on there too.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: James.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh James, you had mentioned Tracy Borman, and I had a lovely surprise.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I finished her trilogy, um, starting with The King's Witch and then The Devil's Slave and The Fallen Angel.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's her novels, and if anyone gets the chance, you have to read them.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: It starts off about the gunpowder plot, but it spirals into all these other it's just really good.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's really engaging.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I was in the I was getting all excited to talk to you today, and I was reading through her book and I was reading the acknowledgments, and I just have to say, um, she says, she's talking about who she would like to thank, um, all of her colleagues, and she says, also James Peacock, who alongside his duties at the palace, finds time to run the wonderful Anne Boleyn Society.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I value their support and friendship greatly.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you should have heard me yesterday.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my gosh, James got mentioned in here.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like instantly texting Elizabeth about it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: She highlighted it, texted it to me.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is pretty exciting.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us a little bit about your involvement, if any?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it sounds like she is incredibly grateful to you for whatever you contributed.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, what does that look like?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Tracy is just one of the absolute most wonderful people that you'll ever meet.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: She's um incredibly down to earth, incredibly supportive, incredibly humble as well.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, um, I would say my only criticism of her, if it's ever considered a critism, is that I think she should promote herself a lot more and she should, you know, shout about her achievements more because she is just phenomenal in just so many ways.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for someone who, you know, in her position of joint chief curator, she's incredibly um respected and loved around the palace because she's just so down to earth and friendly to everyone.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and her knowledge and her skill of writing, presenting is just um incredible, really.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um absolutely incredible.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, those um all her books are just absolutely phenomenal, and um her fiction books, you know, the first time she sort of goes into fiction, she ends up writing some of the best fiction books you could ever, you know, imagine, you know, writing, you know, she's the way she brings the stories to life is just phenomenal.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, when when she sent me um an advanced copy of The Fallen Angel, she was like, you know, be very honest, if you don't like it, that's absolutely fine.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like it because your books are really good.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And reading it, I'm just like, this is fantastic, this is just absolutely phenomenal.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I really hope some TV station or film company pick it up and do it because it's it's crying out for a series, you know.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the gunpowder plot in general is so doesn't get the the credit.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: The Stuarts really don't get a lot of um attention, sadly.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it's got such an interesting period, you know, after Elizabeth's death, and here's this King of England who they're a group of people plotting to um assassinate, but also all the stories she's interweaved around that time as it moves on to like you know, other witchcraft trials and all that.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's something in that story for everyone, whether it's you know the intrigue and the drama, the plots, the romance, or something is yeah, that's it's incredible, and it's very rare that you get stories like that.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it was the torture and execution that had me I kept reading because of that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's gory, and she does picture yourself in the scene, like in the tower, you know, while all that dreadful torture's going on, or you can imagine riding with them in the parks as the leaves are turning orange with the autumn, you know, it's just so well done, yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she writes a lot about being in Hampton Court Palace and Tower of London, and you can tell she's an expert, and she and it's really cool when you can visualize it, and you know, she turns left and then there's the big red bricks and everything.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can just the way that she writes it, even if you've never seen it in person, she does such a good job of helping anybody visualize what it looks like.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, vivid imagery.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Very vivid.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Very good.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like it would translate well to the screen.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Should I play Francis?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: I will play I will volunteer first.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure, yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: If Tracy gets the final sign-off on uh on actors, make sure Megan's in there.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, her accent's great.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then Francis.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't even embarrass anybody right now.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, James can play Tom Winter.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do I have a part?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can play Queen Anne.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: She's kind of old and she has I should cut that out.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't say the endings for the end of the day.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, stop spoiling it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, back to Anne Boleyn a little bit as well.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and speaking of books, is there like one book that you would just recommend to anyone who wants to know more about Anne Boleyn?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you had to choose one out of the many.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, it's so hard.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many good ones.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there's so many that taught take different sort of approaches, which is so interesting.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would have to say, my the one that really got me absolutely totally interested in Anne Boleyn um and really helped and inspire me is definitely The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn by Eric Ives.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: That I do consider to be the Anne Boleyn Bible, really.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that copy.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I can't find the hard copy anywhere anymore.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's not a hard copy.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have it, but okay, I'm an idiot, and I brought it to the pool, and it got a little like wet.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not much of a pool book.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good like pool book, it's kind of heavy and big.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to like replenish my supplies and get a new hardcover, and I couldn't find it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: They do sell it at the Tower of London and at Hampton Court gift shop, but it's the paperback.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I had a very hard time finding that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I agree though.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That that's a there were things in that book when just when you think you like, oh, I know everything about Ambolyn, again, James is very humble, and I'm not.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you read it and you more and more discoveries I had no idea about.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is there something that you wish everybody knew about Ambolyn that easily gets overlooked?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I think it her definitely her interest in like the Reformation.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you get accounts of her being quite charitable and um, you know, giving giving to the poor, there's a few stories that you get in there that you know those are the stories that people often overlook in terms of in favor of the more salacious stories like you know the sick finger rumor, which is you know um, yeah, but uh you know, so I'd definitely say stories like that.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you know the evidence we have is there, and I wish that would get a lot more focused on it.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree, and she did a lot to contribute to scholarships and education, and she was extremely progressive, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the thing that uh always annoys me.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: For example, in Six the Musical, and there's that one line she goes, Politics, not my thing.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, you all she was a politician, a female politician that was just ahead of her times.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Megan was really upset by the overall portrayal of her in Six.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I was rolling my eyes.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I told Megan, I was like, I really think it's just to kind of level the playing field.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they can't just make Anne Boleyn the best one in the show because you're like clearly like she's the favorite.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know, but I feel like they have to almost like downplay how great she was so that the other ones like feel as important or as exciting.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: But they did make her really kind of stupid in the musical, not to spoil it for anyone that hasn't seen it, but we were a little disappointed with the portrayal.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even uh right now I just started reading Allison Weir's um Innocent Traitor, which is about uh Lady Jane Gray.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just started it, and it you know, it takes place uh um like obviously when Jane is a young girl, and so people know about Anne Boleyn, and it's funny just to hear obviously it's a fictional book, but just like the whisperings of who she was, and they're like, oh, that that witch, that whore, that this, that, that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, it was that just the public perception?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's really an unfortunate that, like you said, more of her charitable things weren't acknowledged, or her um, you know, emphasis on education.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, it's just the it's like very I feel like that's intentional though.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, James, but I feel like Henry VIII did everything he could to create that persona and to yeah, create that character because he didn't want people to regret his decision of taking her out.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: He he did very well at like it kind of bore his wives, really.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of it was always their fault that things were wrong, never his fault.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was the master of propaganda, you know.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to put it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to put it.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why they elevated Jane Seymour so much, too, because obviously she just died in childbirth.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So to him, he's like, Oh, she was my one true love.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she didn't do anything wrong.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay, because she died giving you a son, sure.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think Anne would be like in modern days?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you could meet her, we're playing imaginary right now.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you could meet Anne Boleyn, what would you ask her?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, what would Anne be like in modern day?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I th I think it's so gosh, it's a challenge to say.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what would I ask her?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is so difficult.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough question.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: It is, but I like to ask the tough question.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard, real hardball over here.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would I would ask her like um I think I would ask her like, did the reformation go as you would have wanted it to?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like would she have been ha would she have been satisfied in the changes that were made after her death?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Would she have wanted them to go a bit slower?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Would she have wanted them to be not as extreme, you know?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like how would she?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that sorts of things.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's actually a really that's a good question because I guess where my mind goes more is that her relationship with Henry.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to know what were your letters in response like?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because we don't have a lot of her letters, it's mostly one-sided, it's his conversation, and he just acts like this doughy-eyed schoolboy who's in love with her.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know, like, were you reciprocating that well?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Was it genuine?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Were you just leading him on?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Was I mean he was kind of hot at the beginning.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't I don't see why she wouldn't, but well, it's also like he's the king, you know.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, are you just being polite because he's your king?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's gosh, it's like always that question if you can have anyone from history have like five people have dinner with, she will always be in my top five.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like she's the most fascinating.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, love Anne.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're we're about to wrap up here, but obviously, uh our podcast is very focused on execution stories.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we always focus on someone different every episode.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we tell a little about their life, their downfall, and their ultimate execution.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, aside from Anne Boleyn, is is there an execution that really fascinates you?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would have to say Catherine Howard.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like she, and I think the tables are turning, she's starting to get a lot more credit where it's due, you know, being and a much more better representation is starting to come out of her today by the new scholars that are like writing about her.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I, yeah, definitely, definitely Catherine Howard.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a lot of again, there's a lot of misconceptions about her, how she made, you know, the the story that she stood on the scaffold and said, I'd die a queen, but I'd rather die the wife of Culpepper, which is total what it didn't happen?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Don't tell me that, James.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I live for.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Made for TV moments.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, I would definitely one of my favourite things with Catherine Howard, um, which I think totally blows away this silly girl portrayal that she's been given, is the night before her execution, she asks to have the block bought her apartments, so she can practice laying a head upon it because executions were a theatrical show, you know.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was there was such a rehearsed piece, there was a proto protocol to go through, and she wanted her final, her final um site for people that were witnessing this to be perfect, and I think that just yeah, sums.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think she she's been done a horrendous disservice in many ways.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that just sums it up.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's so chilling, it's such a chilling image of practicing, like laying your head down and right.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, it gives me the creeps every time.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a certain way to die with dignity as well, you know, because like you said, it's it's rehearsed, you feel like you you know how to make it perfect, and like these are your final moments, so you want to do it right, even though it's horrific.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think was she actually beheaded um after Jane Boleyn?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I guess Jane Boleyn?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, her name was still Jane Boleyn at that time, was it?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Lady uh Rochford.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Lady Rochford.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was still Lady Rochford.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, she she was actually beheaded first as a person who had high status.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, she and then Jane Boleyn was beheaded after her.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, after.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the tutors they flipped it again for the drama of it, I understand.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And she lays her head on the blood and stuff.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's such it's just so creepy to think about.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: But that's why we do this.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: We like to talk about it.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we do it.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: We like to talk about it.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's later in the in the evening and we have wine, so it's a little bit easier.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little early in the morning when we talk about a beheading.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna say there's no whiskey in my coffee right now.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh dang, oh really.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Just kidding.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Just kidding, just teasing.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, James, uh, do you have any other questions, Lizma?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think we covered the majority of everything I wanted to ask you today, but this has been so lovely.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you know, since Megan met you, we've been talking about what it would be like to have this conversation and kind of dive into everything.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's been excellent.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been a lot.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I hope people really enjoyed this.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: I get to ask you the question.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: James, any final words?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think if I think the way I always like to end like one of the talks I do on Anne Boleyn, is summing her up as Thomas Cromwell summed her up, and many people believe that he's the man that brought her down, whether a pen game would go ahead or not.
• 39:59
  unknown: He he he was one who was tasked with the whole bringing the whole plot together.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and after Anne's execution, he kind of sums her up as having intelligence, spirit, and courage.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the best way to sort of somehow handle in.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who brought her down can still sum her up like that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that says everything.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's perfect.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's so perfect.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, for those who again, if you are not already following the Queen Ambaline Society, please follow, find James.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're on like every social media, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're on you're on Instagram, you're on the Twitter, you're on Twitter, you're on YouTube, you're on Facebook.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Did I say Facebook?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're on Facebook.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Am I missing anything?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, cover this.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Most times it's on um Facebook and Instagram.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's that's where I follow you, is on Instagram.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we will continue to follow and uh follow the headed.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, James.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.